BiggerPockets Money Podcast - The “Set It and Forget It” Path to FIRE by Your 40s

Episode Date: May 30, 2025

If you invest consistently, reaching FIRE (financial independence, retire early) by your mid-40s is absolutely possible. These two financial-freedom-chasing twins are proof of it! Only in their 20s, both Andy and Oliver from Twin Finances have six-figure net worths, rental properties, and fully-loaded stock accounts! Conveniently, right after getting their first jobs, they found out about the FIRE movement, and have been quickly approaching their FIRE numbers ever since! Andy and Oliver have made substantial financial progress in just six years by doing what’s simple—a “set it and forget it” investing strategy that means less stress and faster FIRE. With $2M FIRE goals each, they’ve got a big gap to fill, but starting in their 20s gives them a huge leg up. In this episode, they break down their net worths, assets, and how they balance stocks and real estate to stay on track for FIRE by 45!  Are you new to the FIRE movement? Check out Andy and Oliver’s beginner channel for personal finance, Twin Finances, and subscribe to BiggerPockets Money! In This Episode We Cover The “set it and forget it” investing strategy for FIRE by your mid-40s  Why you MUST be flexible with your FIRE number as your life changes  How to handle market corrections and crashes without losing your FIRE progress  Andy and Oliver’s impressive net worths (they’re only in their 20s!) Combining rental properties and consistent stock investing to diversify your FIRE income And So Much More! Check out more resources from this show on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BiggerPockets.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/money-645 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today we're joined by twins Andy and Oliver, who share more than just DNA. They share the ambition to achieve financial independence by age 45. Are they approaching five the same way, or do they have different investing strategies? How exactly are they planning to break free from their nine to five grind a full two decades before traditional retirement age? That's what we are going to break down in today's episode. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. My name is Mindy Jensen, and with me today is my. darling friend Amberly Grant. Hey Mindy, how you doing? I'm great. How are you doing, Amberley? I am

wonderful. Bigger Pockets has a goal of creating one million millionaires. You are in the right place if you want to get your financial house in order because we truly believe that financial freedom is attainable for everyone no matter when or where you are starting. We are so excited to be joined today by Fire devotees, Andy and Oliver. They are known as twin finances in the Fire community and we can't wait to break down their money story. Welcome, Andy. Hey, everyone. Really excited to be here. Awesome. Welcome, Oliver. Hey, everyone. Super excited to be here and talking to Mindy and Amberly. All right. Andy and Oliver, we met at Economy or FinCon first? I think it was economy. Yeah, we met at Economy at Speed Friendshiping. And then we saw each other again at FinCon. And we have finally connected and got together. And I'm so excited to share your money story with our audience. So, first off, Andy, tell me how you discovered. financial independence, the concept. Yeah, yeah. So I would say I first discovered it, like,

after I got my first full-time job, and I was just looking on Reddit, actually, just about, you know, about personal finance, subreddit to be specific. And yeah, I just discovered, people kept talking about this fire thing. I had no idea what it was. But then, you know, after doing some research, yeah, I figured out what it was. And then, long story short, now I'm here talking about fire on figure pockets money. And how long ago did you discover ify? I would say about 60 since like 20, around 2019. So like about six years ago, I would say. Okay. How did COVID affect your investment strategy? Because it sounds like that was kind of, you were kind of new to investing and new to fire. Did COVID make you pause and say,

ooh, maybe the stock market isn't for me? Yeah. That's a great question. So actually, I would say, like it actually didn't affect me personally too much because I had read so much about, you know, just staying the course, not panicking when, you know, the stock market is falling. And I think this was really the first true test that I had. But, you know, having read so much about like, you know, fire from like, you know, books and like YouTube videos and from bigger pockets, I knew that like, you know, just staying the course and like really doing nothing was the simplest, what's the correcting to do. And so that's what I ended up doing. Now, that is, incredibly mature of you. Oliver, how did you discover financial independence? Yeah, pretty similar

story to Andy. Just when we got our first jobs, we knew that the next, we knew we needed to save, but also kind of the next level was that investing piece. So that's where we kind of have a gap. And so just reading different articles, blogs, Reddit, just stumbled upon it as well. But also came across for Meet Sethi's book. And I think that kind of set up the foundation of like how to invest and what to invest in. So pretty similar story there. Oliver, What is your fine number? And when do you think you'll achieve it? I would say right around 2 million. And I would say shooting around 45 with kind of just some assumptions built in there. Still kind of earlyish in the career. So trying to not playing too far ahead, but want to have a goal to kind of be able to set some milestones along the path.

So I would say right around 2 million. What are those milestones that you're thinking of settings that you feel like you're achieving, your goals. So I think the first is just, just kind of like the classic net worth tracker. So like 500,000, a million. And maybe probably a little smaller ones as well, but I think those are kind of the big ones that I'm just like kind of working towards. And then I think I would like to think, you know, it's a steady progression, but I know life happens. And, you know, in the future, eventually have a family, things like that. So that's where I don't want to be too rigid and be disappointed if I don't make it by a certain date. But I think just kind of having those out in the field of vision is kind of my

goal right now to make sure that I just stay the path. I love that you're thinking about your future and how your goals and your path may change a little bit because it sets you up for success instead of failure. I think a lot of people think that if you're working towards two million and you don't achieve it in the exact time frame that you set out that you're not doing good enough or well enough. And so it's really nice to think in advance about the ebbs and flows of life. And I can be someone, like, I can talk to that because I recently had a child. And the first year can just be like, who knows? Very expensive, not expensive. It just depends on what's going on, right? So it's like, you got to be gentle on yourself for the path to fire. You'll get there. It just might take longer

or shorter than you anticipate. Andy, what about you? Like, what's your fire number and when will you achieve it? Yeah, so just like Oliver, I would say, you know, it's pretty similar. I think anywhere from like $2 million to $2.5. Just depends. So that gives us a, you know, worth of 4% of rule that gives us about like anywhere from $80,000 to maybe like, you know, 90,000 a year.

But, you know, just like Oliver mentioned as well, like we can't really predict the future. And like maybe $80,000 is like a good number of like in today's dollar. but, you know, maybe in 20 years, that might not be as much. So definitely, like, on a very similar mindset where I'm trying to be as flexible as possible, but also, like Oliver said, like, just to have a goal to make sure we're aiming towards something. But yeah, just to make sure we stay focused and just eventually hit at least minimum, I would say. That's, like, a good goal, I feel like. And then, you know, who knows, we'll have 20 years. But I think that's, like, the ultimate goal. I love it. Is that $80,000 a year based on your current spend? Or is it just a number you made up for

the future? Yeah, great question. So I would say is this a number made up for the future just because like from how much I spend now from how much I spend, you know, by time 45, I think it's to be like drastically different. You know, definitely have a family by the time. We'll have kids. So I'm sure my expenses will like definitely increase a good, a good bit compared to like what I have, what are what are my current expenses are. How actively are you working towards FI? Is this something that's constantly in your mind or is it kind of set it and forget it? I know that I want to say, save X percentage so I do that and then I just live my life. I would say I probably more more in the

lenient side of that like in the sense of I definitely like resonate with the set and forget it. Almost to a fault of like I really I hardly ever check the stock market just because one of course that doesn't help but to even like even if I do it's just really I think to me like day to day it just doesn't bother me. I just know I'm not going to touch that money so there's no point in looking at it. So I would say like it's definitely something in the back of my mind. But at the end of the day, it's something like I want to focus on the day to day stuff. So that's where more of like, you know, meeting other people or just, you know, understanding high level like what my goals are. But I've really gone to like travel hacking and things like that just because that's something

more I can focus on it now versus like later. Yeah, I absolutely love that answer. I am married to Carl and he checks it every day because that just brings him joy. I never check it because he checks it every day. Why do I have to check it? And then, of course, he talks to me about it. But if he's gone for a week and we don't talk about it, that's okay. I have no control over what any of the stocks or funds that I own does on a day-to-day basis. So continuing, especially if it gives you anxiety, I think that if I sat there and watched it, I might start to get a little bit of anxiety. Oh, we're down today. Oh, we're up today. Oh, we're down today. Like, don't bother.

You don't need it right now. So, you know, check in. Like, how frequently do you check in, Oliver? Probably not enough to be honest. Like, probably like once a week. I'll, like, take high level making sure that, like, I think everything is like looks good. But honestly, like, probably could do a little bit more. But again, trying to find that good balance of being able just to not look at it too much.

But to stay on top of things and their adjustments that are needed. I can make those. But honestly, yeah, like, I was. say once a week, once every other week. Okay, no, that's, I was going to suggest, you know, once a quarter. When there's a great big event in the stock market, maybe take a peek at it, but otherwise, like, look at it when it feels comfortable to you. If you start feeling really, really anxious about it, maybe you're looking at it too frequently. Something to think about is if you look at it every single week in a year, that is 52 times in a year. And I don't know

if we need to look at our investments 52 times in a year. So when I quantify it in a yearly basis, it sounds actually kind of absurd. And there are people who do it every day. So then you're like 365 days a year you're going to look at your accounts. That seems a little much. Now even once every two weeks, okay, like 25 times a year. That sounds like a little more, I guess, manageable or interesting that you actually can see some change. So anyways, that's my quick thought on that, is if you put it into like a whole year and what you're spending your life doing, that I don't know if I want to spend 52 times in my life pulling up all of my different brokerage accounts. Anywho, I love that. I love that so much. We have to take a quick break. But when we're back,

we will hear about how Andy and Oliver are incorporating real estate into their portfolio for a bit of diversification. Tax season is one of the only times all year when most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going, and more importantly, where your tax refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments,

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accounts, but just to a high level, I think it tolls, and of course it ebbs and flows with the stock market, but it's right around 190,000. So I have about 58,000 in my 401k. I have about 37,000 in my Roth IRA, 28,000 in my HS. say, and then 52,000 in my high youth savings account. And I recently participated in my company's employee purchase program. So I think it's right around 6,200 for that. And then my checking account, I have about 7,300. Okay.

I find it interesting that you have $52,000 in a high yield savings account. Is that your emergency fund? Are you saving for something? The emergency fund, but also I think in someone in the near future, saving for something, potentially another rental property. So that's something that I've just been saving for there. Oh, you said another rental property. Do you own a rental property right now? Yes. So last year, I was able to purchase my first rental property. Do you include the equity in that property in your net worth calculation? Okay, sorry, I should have clarified. No, I did not just to

keep it a little simpler. So I did not include that in those numbers. like to include that because that is real even more so than my home equity, although I do include my home equity in my net worth calculations as well, because that is real money that is tied up in that house that if you sold, you would collect. So something to think about going forward. You might want to include that in your net worth. Okay, Andy, what is your current net worth? Yeah, so I would say my current net worth is around like 400,000, but I'm also, I am including like the equity into my like, and basically like how much I put into my like one investment property as well as my like primary residence. So yeah, just like broken out like I have a traditional 401k. I have about like 75,000.

My Roth IRA has around 51,000. My HSA has around 20,000. My high yield savings account. has around 26,000. My brokerage account has 21,000, and I have a checking account around 12,000. And then, like, for one of my rental properties, I put down, like, around like, 95,000. And so I'm just including just that in my network as well as my primary residence. I also put down about 97,000. So, yeah, approximately it all equals around 400,000. Okay. And, you. And, you.

You don't have a large high-yield savings account. Do you have a specific emergency fund? Yeah, I would say my emergency fund right now is my high-yield savings account just because I recently bought my primary residence. And so I'm just trying to reboot it back up like at this moment. Okay. So Oliver has $19,000 in net worth. And Andy has $400,000 in net worth.

Broken out a little bit differently. I would be curious to see what the equity is in your rental and your primary Oliver. I wonder that I bet those numbers are a lot closer than we actually, than are actually conveyed right here. So just something to think about when you're calculating your net worth. Your net worth is not necessarily your fine number. Your home equity is something that I consider as part of my net worth, but I don't count it towards my fine number because I'm not going to sell my house

to fund my lifestyle, I'm going to continue to live in my house. So I'm looking for different ways to calculate my fine number. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, that makes sense. And that's good advice. Andy, what do you do for a living and where are you based? Currently, I work as like a software engineer and I'm currently based in like Atlanta, Georgia. Excellent. Atlanta, um, is a higher cost of living, low cost of living, medium? What do you think? Uh, I would classify as like medium. I don't think it's like a San Francisco or like a New York, but it's also not like super cheap like other states. So yeah, we're on medium cost of living, I think. Yeah, from what I hear about it, it sounds like that. Lots of suburbs, just like a normal city

in a sense. What about you, Oliver? Where are you based and what's your career? So I'm currently based in Ann Arbor, Michigan. And I am a supply chain consultant. Excellent. Ann Arbor, Michigan. Large university there. So high medium. low cost of living? I would say it's probably closer to medium. So not the rent prices aren't too crazy here. And are you two investing in your local community in regards to your rental properties or you've you've been investing out of state? I would say it's like more local. So it's like in a city that we grew up in. We both currently don't live there now, but we both have investment properties there. Oliver, do you have a property manager for your investment property? Yes. So we do. So I think

we mentioned this in our notes, but currently our dad is actually a real estate investor and a property manager, so he helps us take care of that. Whoa, nice. Okay, big question for you. Did you always know that you were going to invest in real estate because you watched your parents do it, or specifically your father do it? Or was this something that you thought you would never do? And then you just happened to find yourself in it. I would say it's something that, yeah, definitely our parents have always ever since like, I don't know, middle school, high school, ever since we got our first paying job was always like, okay, the first thing you're going to do is like get a house as soon as possible. So it's one of those things. It was kind of like, not ingrained in a sense, but at the same time,

it's one of those things with your parents tell you to do something. You don't really want to do it. So it was nothing I ever took seriously. Like, we were probably getting paid like $10 an hour at our first job. So I'm like, dad, I can't even afford to go eat out. Like, let, loan like worry about saving for a house. So it was more of like, okay, yeah, sure, dad. We'll do that eventually. And then I think it was once we finally got our first like full-time jobs, our parents, like I mentioned, they weren't in corporate or anything. So I knew they didn't really understand like the 401K, RothRA, things like that. And so we kind of knew we had to take it upon ourselves to kind of just like learn as much as we could. And so that's where we kind of like, again, like we

mentioned earlier, got into fire and just learn more about that. And kind of going down that rabbit hole. We, of course, heard about bigger pockets and then learned more about how real estate was actually a really good investment asset. So that's where it definitely helped at that point where we told our dad about it and he was definitely on board. So I think it worked out really well in the end. That's really cool. Andy, what about you? Did you think that you would be investing in real estate or were you also like, maybe, but not really? Yeah, I would definitely say, yeah, I definitely did plan on investing in real estate just because, you know, our parents, like, were heavily involved of real estate and they made their whole career out of it. So it seemed like a very natural

progression to, like, continue investing in real estate. So, yeah, I did plan on it. Awesome. I feel like my kids will be like you too. They'll be like, what, what am I doing here? You know, am I going to invest in real estate? Am I not? We'll probably put them to work in the properties, so they're going to learn a lot, but then they might resent us for it. Who knows? But I love that you guys came back to it. And Andy, you were always, planning on doing it, but all over you came back to it and you're actually investing in properties and following in your parents' footstep, yet also making your own path. So great job. We have to take one final ad break and we'll be back with more. Tax season is one of the only times all year when

most people actually look at their full financial picture, including income, spending, savings, investments, the whole thing. And if you're like most folks, it can be a little eye-opening. That's why I like Monarch. It helps you see exactly where your money is going and more importantly where your tax refund can make the biggest impact. Because the goal isn't just to look backward, it's to actually make progress. Simplify your finances with Monarch. Monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life, including budgeting, accounts and investments, net worth, and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or your laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this tax season and get 50% off

your Monarch subscription with the code pockets. What I personally like is that Monarch keeps you focus on achieving, not just tracking. You can see your budgets, debt payoff, savings goals, and net worth all in one place. So every decision actually moves in the needle. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all-in-one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code pockets at Monarch.com for half off your first year. That's 50% off at monarch.com code pockets. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast?

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And they're like, oh, when I grow up, I'm going to live in a house that's already finished. I'm like, we've lived in finished houses, like two or three years of your whole life. So that it can't be a little rough on the kids. Andy, do you have an idea of how large your real estate portfolio you want to have? Do you have like a door count or an annual or monthly income? And then you'll stop buying rental properties. or how does your real estate portfolio play out? Yeah, great question.

I would say as of right now, yeah, I don't think I'm one of those people who wants to own like 100 doors, to be honest. I think realistically anywhere from like, you know, like from five, like anywhere from like seven maybe to 15, like over the course of my life, I think would be pretty good number. Just to give context as well, like we're currently like investing in like long-term rentals. And so at the rate we're going, I think that's like a pretty good number. pretty feasible number just because we're like, you know, putting the whole 20% down and just like, yeah, just doing investment properties. So not doing any like living flips or house hacking

just yet. But yeah, that's like the current strategy. And Oliver, what about you? Do you have a set amount or a set income level that you're working towards? Yeah, pretty similar answer. I want to say a set one, but I think whatever makes the most sense kind of in my situation now, So I think, like Andy mentioned, at the rate, we're going probably 7 to 15. But of course, just like earlier, like anything could change. So I'm not super set on a number. But I think just having a good number just to be able to learn and understand kind of the process is kind of what I'm shooting for. Okay.

I was the community manager for Bigger Pockets for six years. And I was in the forums all day, every day. And I would constantly see people coming in. I am going to buy a hundred doors. How many do you have now? None. Okay, that's a great goal, but I don't like these hard and fast numbers. I like these ideas. Oh, I'm going to buy until it doesn't make sense to not buy anymore. I'm going to, you know, I am always looking for a deal. I'm a real estate agent. I have access to the MLS. I've set up a search for myself, any house in my city that pops up, I get a notification. So, I keep my thumb on the pulse of the city that I'm working in. But also, I drink my coffee in the morning and I go through all of the listings that popped up the night before. Oh, that's a very interesting property.

I don't really have the bandwidth to do a flip right now. But I have a friend who wants to do flip. So maybe I'll, you know, let them know that this is coming up. Or, hey, this looks like an awesome deal. I wasn't even looking for one, but I just bought another house. Yay. So it's, you know, when you have a more loose idea of what it is you want, I think it's, you're easier, it's easier to pass on a house that isn't quite great and it's easier to jump on a house that you really love. I'm all about that philosophy, Mindy. I always joke that the houses find me. I don't find them. And I've, because I'm not a aggressive real estate investor, I think I've been able to wait for some seriously good houses. So I'm all about a,

you know, a goal and something to attain, but nothing where you're, you know, setting all of your intention, like, okay, I have to do this thing. All right, now that you two have an incredible base, you've got stuff in investments, you, in like brokerages and stock market, you also have housing. Andy, what's your next step and where are you going from here? Yeah, no, that's a great question. And I think that's something I'm personally still trying to figure out. But I would say, say like a very high level, I'm just continuing, just doing what I'm doing right now, which is investing like in index funds, as well as continuing to invest in real estate. But I'm also trying to find a good balance between the two. I'm not sure if I want to go like, you know,

more into real estate versus stocks or the other way around. But as of right now, just trying to do it even just 50-50 split. But who knows, maybe in the future, you know, if there's a good opportunity, might focus more in real estate or if, you know, if the stock market crashes, might buy some more stocks when it's cheaper. So yeah, that's like the general plan right now. Nice. Andy, are you more motivated by the FI or the RE? I would definitely say the FI. Like I really enjoy what I do as my job right now. But, you know, having the option to be FI, you know, would be amazing. So definitely focus more in the FI part. Awesome. Oliver, first, are you more interested in the FI or the RE?

Yeah, same answer. Definitely the FI. I think I enjoy my job as well. So I'm grateful to say that. I think it's just one of those things. Like in the future, like it would be really nice to be able to like, if I had to stop or for whatever reason, take a break, it'd be nice to be able to know that I could. I love it. And you're working on something part time for both of you together. Whoever, Andy or Oliver, want to tell me about twin finance? Yeah, no, Twin Finance is something that started, I would say about like, it's kind of been in the works the past couple years, but we started taking it more seriously once we met, once we went to economy and met all the other creators, but it's just our current YouTube channel where we teach others, like how to set up a automated system within their finances. So we have a lot of tutorials such as like pretty like simple or pretty like simple. things you would think, but stuff like just how to transfer money from a checking account, how to set up automatic transfers, how to set up automatic investments, things like that.

I think once we kind of got into the fire movement, we learned there's a lot of people who tell you what to do, but they don't necessarily show you how to do it, even if it's something that you would think is straightforward. When we first got into this, like I had no idea how to set up automatic transfer. Like I just didn't really use like those websites too much, like Charles Swabs and Fidelity and things like that. So we wanted to create a resource that we wish we had when we first started. It was a lot of struggling for us. And, you know, of course, we eventually did figure out how to do all that. But it just been, it would have been really nice to have one place where you could find all that

info. So that's currently what we're doing now and kind of our main focus, um, outside of like real estate. I love that. It took me 10 months to do a backdoor Roth IRA because I just could not understand how to do it. And I didn't understand any of the tutorials. So I had to have a friend come on Zoom and show me step by step how to do it. So I would very much appreciate any tutorials you have in regards to financial step by step guides. Thanks. Andy, anything to add there? Yeah, not too too much. But yeah, just to emphasize, yeah, like our channel is exactly that. it just really step-by-step tutorials on how to do everything like personal finance related. Like, and just to give context and like why we started it, like, I remember I procrastinated,

like opening up my first Roth IRA because I just didn't know how to do it. And I didn't know what the steps were. Even though, like, I went on the website and I tried to do it, it was just like intimidating at first. And so I definitely procrastinated for a while. But that's actually what inspired us to like make the first couple of videos. We're just like, once I figured out how to do it, I just wanted to share with others, like how to do the exact same thing just to show them it wasn't as difficult or intimidating as like as they might think so you totally hit the nail on the head they're intimidating and then then you do the

first part but then you don't do the second follow up for like another five months and then all of a sudden it's a new year and you've lost the entire contribution room um no i haven't done that yes i have I am on your twin finances YouTube channel right now, which is YouTube.com slash at twin finances. There's an S on there because there's two of them. Charles Schwab set up automatic transfers, Vanguard, how to buy a mutual fund. If you don't know anything about this, you could get on the Vanguard website and be like, well, maybe tomorrow. I can totally see how somebody would continue to push it off and push it off.

and push it off. And this is awesome. How to buy an ETF with Fidelity. How to buy stocks in your HSA in Fidelity. This is awesome. You've got the, your thumbnails are awesome because you've got the headline. If I don't have Vanguard, I do everything in Fidelity. Great. I'll just go on to the green fidelity ones. Vanguard is red. Charles Schwab is blue. This is so awesome. How to view your IRA contributions. Buy an ETF in one minute. If you are not savvy in how to do all of these if you're newer to financial independence, if your kids want a place to go to learn how to do this. YouTube.com slash at twin finances. That is such a great tutorial.

I love those so much. So, Andy, what is your biggest piece of advice to somebody who is just getting started today? Yeah, so I would say my biggest piece of advice for someone who's like starting from like the absolute beginning is just to try to simplify as much as possible. So just to give one specific example, like, I remember when I first started to set up my mint account to like track all my finances, so like my income and expenses. I remember that, you know, there's a lot of different features on that app, or there was anyway, like such as like budgets, you're tracking income expenses, like all these extra things. But I would highly recommend just sticking to a very simple process,

at least at the very beginning and just adding on. And so to be a little more specific, like something I did at the very beginning was just to track only my income and my expenses. Like I didn't even focus on like, you know, trying to like use all these extra features just because I just wanted to get started and build a good habit.

And then once I put that good habit, then I started to explore like other features of like mint. But just to directly answer your question, I would say simplify everything, whether it's like tracking your income expenses or even just like, setting up automatic investments, just like, just set everything up as, like, quickly as possible and just keep it simple. And then afterwards, just like get into the more advanced stuff.

And that way you can at least make progress versus if you try to jump in and try to do all these advanced things at the very beginning, you might end up just procrastinating and, like, not doing anything. So that's my one piece of advice. I love that. Oliver, what is your best piece of advice for somebody who's just starting out? Yeah, and just to piggyback off that, the reason we, one of the reasons, restart that YouTube channel, like we said, it was just because it's very complicated at the beginning. But after reading Ramit's book and just it really resonated with the set it and forget it mindset, like I mentioned earlier, like I feel like I probably don't look, probably don't check my

accounts and all that like enough. But I wanted to set up an automated system in a way like you actually just never have to look if you really didn't want to. So I would say like just setting up like the automatic transfers from your paycheck to your Rothair A to your 401k or HSA and things like that. I think it was a really key part. And like I would just not check for a couple weeks at a time. And it would just see like the net worth go up and like, wow, I didn't even realize. And it was just something, I think for me, someone who's just like really lazy and, you know, I care about it enough, but I don't care of it enough to check every single day. I think that was kind of the key for me.

So that way I could focus on my other like interests and hobbies like the YouTube channel and other things. All right. Besides twin finances on YouTube, is there any other place people can find you online? Andy, I'm going to have you answer first. Yeah. I would say one place you guys can find us is our website like twinfinances.com. We just started, we just started it, but it just has some basic information about us. But you can find like more information.

You can find like, yeah, more information about us on our website. Oliver, any other place besides the website or the YouTube channel? Yeah, I would say we have TikTok and Instagram as well with the same tag. It's not as active as a YouTube channel. but in in addition to some of the other finance tutorials that we put on there, we also put some credit card tutorials. So like I mentioned earlier, I've just gotten to travel hacking a lot in these past couple years.

So to the similar perspective of kind of like the finance tutorials, we put credit card tutorials. So things are like how to transfer your credit card points from one program to another and how to kind of do the whole travel hacking as a beginner. So think our TikTok and Instagram are mostly focused on that, but our YouTube channel has both of those combined. Awesome. And your TikTok is also twin finances?

Yes, that's correct. Oliver, thank you so much for your time today. This was a lot of fun. I hope that everybody listening takes either the moment to go over and check out your content on YouTube or shares it with somebody in their life that needs the beginner tutorials because that is priceless for getting started. It is so easy to see a complicated website and just say, never mind. but getting into it, getting it done.

I mean, how many times have you heard this story, Amberly? Oh, I thought I was contributing to my Roth IRA, but the money was just sitting there because I never invested it anywhere. I've heard that story too many times. So if you have a beginner in your life or if you are a beginner, check out YouTube.com slash at twin finances. All right. Oliver, Andy, thank you so much for your time.

And we will talk to you soon. Thanks for the time, Mindy. Really appreciate it. Yeah, really enjoyed it. Thank you. Yeah, okay, bye-bye. All right, that was Andy and Oliver from Twin Finance. Amberley, what did you think of the show? Absolutely loved it. I just love that they are pretty much documenting their path to starting new accounts and simplifying their finances, which I think

a lot of people can really benefit from. I also love that they have very similar ideas on what they're doing for finance, but they have different jobs. And though their fine number seems to be exactly the same. We'll see how they end up in the next 20 years. I love that even though they're twins, they have the same, the same trajectory as everybody else in the FI journey. It's, it's not like they're doing the same thing because they're twins. They're doing the same thing because that's what needs to be done in order to get to financial independence. But like I said at the end of the show, I absolutely love their site. I love the step-by-step videos that they share that just tells you how to go and do the thing because we sit here in these podcasts and we're like,

oh, it's so easy. Just open up an IRA. Well, it's not actually so easy if you've never done it before, if you don't know what you're doing. And muddling through can be the stopping factor when you're trying to get this whole thing started. Oh, I can't figure it out. Forget it.

I'm not even going to bother. Or I'll try next week. And then next week never comes. So I love that they've got the step by steps. That wraps up this episode of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. She is Amberly Grant. I am Mindy Jensen saying jump that hurdle, turtle.