BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 110: Eliminating the Hassle Factor As a Landlord with Glenn McCrorey

Episode Date: February 19, 2015

Everyone knows rental properties can be a great way to build wealth — but they also generally come with significant hassle and stress. However, today on the BiggerPockets Podcast we sit down and talk with Glenn McCrorey, an investor who discovered a unique and powerful real estate niche that makes his landlording almost completely hassle-free! Learn insight on renting to family and friends, tips on how NOT to waste your time worrying about your rentals, and ways to lessen the inconveniences that come with managing property. If you value your time but still want to invest in rentals — then don’t miss out on this unique episode! In This Episode We Cover: How Glenn got started on his first property What you need to know about renting to family and friends The ins and outs of special assessments Insight on the condo experience Reasons why Glenn and Brandon hold properties that aren’t earning What the “hassle factor” is and how you can manage it The secrets behind owning worry-free rentals How to “live the dream” as a landlord And SO much more! Links from the Show: Trivia Email BiggerPocket’s The Book on Investing in Real Estate with No (and Low) Money Down REO Wells Fargo BiggerPockets’ List of REOs BiggerPockets’ Forums: What kind of car do you drive? BiggerPockets’ Podcast Show 109 BiggerPockets’ Webinar Books Mentioned in this Show Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki How I Turned $1,000 into Five Million in Real Estate in My Spare Time by William Nickerson The Goal: A Process of Ongoing Improvement by Eliyahu M. Goldratt Tweetable Topics: “Even if you invest with creative measures, you should need to have some sort of reserve.” Share on Twitter Connect with Glenn Glenn’s BiggerPockets Profile Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast. Show 110. I don't even, I don't interview the people are actually going to be living in the house, so I don't deal with applications or background checks or any of those things. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from Bigger, Pockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online.

What's going on, everybody? This is Josh Dorkin. House to the Bigger Pockets podcast. Here with my co-host. It's Brandon. What up, B. What up, Jay? You got to be, are we not tired of that introduction yet?

You know, we got to spice this up. Oh, yeah? How are we supposed to spice it up? Should we get some salsa music? We should get some music and be like, you know, like, I don't know. Here comes Josh and Brandon. Here comes Josh. Nice.

I like it. I like it. All right. Somebody record it and send it our way. We'll do it. Okay. All right, man, good show ahead today. Man, we got lots of interesting strategies to talk about, don't we? We do. This is a cool one. This is something that I latched on to because in my landlording, it gets a little bit stressful and there's a lot of hassle sometimes. And today, our guest actually uses the word called, a phrase called the hassle factor and talks about how to eliminate it. His strategy has almost no hassle. And you guys are going to love this. It's really smart. Really, really, really brilliant. You know, we haven't talked to anybody about this. And man, I love doing these interviews and learning new stuff. It's just, it's awesome. That's awesome. Me too. Well, trivia.

Let's do it. Today's trivia is. All right. Last week's show, we sat down with Scott Smith, an attorney, a very smart one from Austin, Texas. Or so we think. We think he seems pretty smart to me. Who taught us how to protect ourselves from that inevitable situation of getting sued. On the show, Scott mentioned a certain kind of trust.

that he said was as good as an offshore account. So what was the name of that trust? If you think you know, send an email to trivia at biggerpockets.com for your chance to win the digital version of the book on investing in real estate with no and low money down written by yours truly. And if you want to pick up a copy of that without doing the trivia, biggerpockets.com slash no money. Check it out.

There you go. Nice stuff. Nice stuff. All right. Well, let's get to this. Today's guest, Glenn McCrory. Glenn McCrory. I have a hard time saying it, is a landlord from the great state of Iowa, who has a unique and very appealing niche in the real estate space.

Glenn was recently able to quit his job and is kind of running that hassle-free landlording business that we had alluded to earlier. I think you're going to love it. There's really just a whole lot of cool stuff to gain from the show. So I know I'm excited to introduce him and let's bring him on board very quickly before we do. This is biggerpockets.com slash show. 10. This is actually biggerpockets.com podcast show 110, but you can find the show notes at biggerpockets.com slash show 110. And we've got notes there. If you want to ask questions to our guest, feel free to do that over there. A lot of property managers think their job is answering

tenant emails and coordinating repairs. That's not the job. The job of a property manager is protecting and growing your operating income and earning your trust while they do it. And that comes down to three numbers, occupancy, delinquency, and net promoter score. If those numbers slip, your income slips, and your trust slips too. And most PMs don't hold themselves to performance standards. They focus on activity, not outcomes. Mind is different. They obsess over the metrics that actually grow your cash flow. Go to mine.com slash show me to see how mine performs and get a month of management for free. Because if you're going to hire a property manager, hire one that manages your investment like an investment. You've upgraded how to buy properties, but did your insurance

get the memo? When investors start scaling, insurance can't be an afterthought. Most policies were designed for a single property, not multiple rentals, LLC ownership, short-term stays, or properties mid-rehab. That's where blind spots can creep in. Enreg works exclusively with real estate investors. They understand portfolios, how risk compounds as you grow, and why insurance should protect your upside, not just a checkbox. One uncovered claim can undo years of progress. Before your next acquisition, review your insurance. Talk to NREG and get investor-specific coverage from specialists who actually understand real estate

at NRE.com slash BPPod. That's N-R-E-I-G.com slash BP pod. There are two kinds of real estate investors, those who have reviewed their insurance, and those who think that they have. Most don't realize their coverage wasn't built for how they actually invest. Vacancy periods, rehabs, short-term rentals, or LLC-held properties. These gaps surface only when filing claims. That's why investors work with NREG.

They specialize exclusively in real estate investors, understanding portfolios, risk at scale, and cash flow protection. One claim can erase years of returns. If you own a rental property, don't assume you're covered. Have NREG review your insurance with someone who gets investing at NREG.com slash BP pod. That's N-R-E-I-G.com slash B-Pod. And with that, why don't we bring him on?

All right, Glenn, welcome to the show, man. It's good to have you here. Well, thanks, guys. It's surreal and a pleasure to be talking to you live. Cool. It's surreal for me too, man. I see you wearing that shirt. I mean, it's freaking me out. Well, we got a foot of snow yesterday, so this is me in denial. Yeah, man. No, seriously, it's great to have you.

We're really excited to chat with you. You've got a very unique strategy, and we're looking forward to chatting about it. But before we go there, why don't we kind of talk about your background, how you became a real estate guy? What did you do beforehand and how did you get started? Well, I joined the Army right out of high school. I take back my comment on the shirt. I joined the Army right out of high school. It was 82.

The recession going on back then, too. So it was in the Army as an avionics mechanic, which is working on airplanes. and radios, autopilots, things like that. So I did that for a while. Then I got out, worked for Boeing and for Delta, and was the aircraft mechanic, but personality-wise didn't really feel like that was the best fit, but I was just trying to make a living.

Yep. Nice. So, but a funny story about Delta Airlines. I was 25, and I got there, and, you know, got the uniform and the toolbox, and you walk out on the flight line, you're there with a guy that's 65, he's got the same uniform, the same toolbox. And I honestly think that's when the light kind of went, ding.

This is your life. That's when my wheels started turning. I didn't find real estate for a while after that, but that's when the wheels started turning. Okay. So how did you eventually kind of get there? Well, I was going to school at night's school and trying to get farther ahead at work

and white collar job, thing like that, sales. And you're going to love this one. One of my co-workers telling me about a book called Rich Dad, poor dad when I was in 2003. So I read that and I was like, holy cow, I wonder if this guy knows my dad. I mean, my dad's the greatest guy in the world, but it's just exactly the same, you know, depression error mentality. And I was already trying to find the answer and financially anyway. And so that just really resonated with me. So I got all excited and did nothing for six months. But then I got my feet wet and my plan was to buy a

like one property a year. But, you know, after after a while, you start seeing that, hey, you could really turn this into no need for a job. So that's why I got a little more excited as time went on. Plus, you keep getting laid off, you know, that is. Yeah. Nice. Well, that's not nice.

But yeah, no, I get you. Yeah, the layoff thing sucks. I've got, you know, we, we see that a lot, you know, amongst folks and the fam, and it's frustrating. And it happens to a lot of people, regardless of how skilled you are, you know, you pick a job. in an industry that's shifting or something's happening and you find yourself in trouble. So you're ready. You've been kind of bouncing around for the idea for six months.

How'd you jump in? How'd you dive in? I decided that, hey, I like Florida. My sister's moving from Tampa at a Fort Myers. I should buy a condo and rent it to her. Oh, good idea. Yeah, it was a terrific idea. What year was this?

2004. I did get her permission to tell this story, though. Okay, good. So she had a job. She's getting transferred, and I said, well, I'll buy this little condo in a golf course and rent it out to her and, you know, rent it out seasonally when she moves out. And someday when I retire, I could go use it. So she moved in and spent a couple thousand dollars putting in stealing fans and carpets

and all this stuff. And three months later said, was picking my wife and I up at the airport in tears saying, I quit my job today. I'm moving back to Tampa. Yeah. I go, well, at least, you know, you can't evict your sister. And so I didn't have a lease. And, you know, so we just worked together to get the place furnished up.

And that was the year they had four hurricanes in 2004. So, you know, condo fees, doubled special assessments. You know, pretty much anything that could go wrong did. But over the next few years, I just kept it and rented it seasonally. And, you know, it doubled in value. in a matter of a few years. And since I wasn't smart enough to sell it, it dropped in value. So I still have it.

Oh, there was a bubble, wasn't there? Was that? Yeah. I mean, is that what we're talking about this whole? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. I do tell people that's probably the worst mistake I've made is I, you know, I left a hundred something thousand dollars, you know, hanging out there.

But I did take out a line of credit. I was smart enough to do that. And I used that to buy four rental properties. And I still have all those today. And I still have the condo. And it's the only thing that loses money. But my credit's intact, I guess. Well, I think that's one of the things a lot of investors go through.

I mean, I've been there. I have property, you know, at least one I can think of that's the same story. Well, I rented it to my brother-in-law, you know, but like it's a terrible property. It doesn't give me any money today. I have a lot of problems with it. But, you know, I don't know. It got me to where I am today. It got me moving on just like you always got you the line of credit that you were able to buy more properties with,

which I would actually love to touch on that subject here. maybe in a minute, but maybe I can ask you about the family thing first. Like, why is that typically not a good idea to rent to family or friends? Well, because you're one big tool in the toolbox, is your landlord toolbox is, you know, evicting someone if you had to. And, you know, you got to keep peace. I mean, I didn't have her sign a lease. I figured it's my sister.

She's good for it. And she did pay her rent for three months. And I get to keep the improvements she made. And, you know, we're in great terms. But we're in great terms because we didn't have a big blowout. And so I just going forward and then you start reading books and they say, hey, you know, that thing you did, don't do that. So then you're like, oh, yeah.

So I would help anyone in the family and I'm always trying to get people to invest and read things and friends and family and colleagues too. But I have not done any business deals with friends or colleagues. So I just kind of keep that separate. You know, the last, like, friend that I rented to was like this couple that I knew from growing up when I was, you know, a kid. And they wanted to move out to my area. And so they said, hey, do you have anything to rent? I said, actually, perfect.

I have a property that you guys can rent for free. Just take care of the place. It was my apartment complex. And I mean, I love this couple. To this day, they're one of my favorite people in the world. But when they moved in, I said, there's only really one thing I ask is, please do not move out in the middle of December, which is like four months in the future. Yeah, no problem. So when did they move out, middle of the middle of the middle of the year?

they move out middle of December, then get rented until like March 1st, I think. And like, it's like that same thing. Like, what am I going to do? I'm not going to lose a friendship over that, but, you know, it cost me a couple grand. Which is why you don't get into those situations in the first place. Last time I ever did it was to that was that couple. Again, I love that couple, but, you know, if they're listening, you guys rock. But like, it just, it.

But you guys screw me. It was a rough thing. So that's it. She did, she got pregnant and like, you know, moved home to be. closer to family because it was a difficult pregnancy. But still, yeah, I mean, every reason in the world, but had that not been a, you know, it would have probably turned a little different. They would have had a lease and they would have had responsibilities more.

So anyway. Yeah, nice. Nice. Hey, Glenn, so, and I know, Brandon, you had some other stuff you wanted to kind of get into, but you had mentioned some of the worst things happening to with that condo. And I just want to kind of dig in a little bit. You had talked about special assessments and some other stuff. Explain that.

How does it work? I've talked about it a few times over the, over the, a couple of years on the show, but it's nice. I got sucked with some small ones when I was in condo, when I had a condo. But I know some folks who've gotten really just rocked by those things. So tell me about your experience. The assessment is if condo association collects the fee, the Homeowner Association dues, and then they set money aside.

And so like every year they set aside 1.15th of a roof, what they think a roof would cost. And so 15 years from now, the money's squirled away specifically for the roof and every so many years for the paint and so many years for this and that. So this one's run really well. But if three or four years after replacing the roof, there's a hurricane that rips the roof off, not only do you have to, you don't have the money for the roof, but everybody needs a roof. And the cost of that roof is twice what you were planning on. So then they just take the cost, divide it by the number of units and say, everybody write me a check. Yep. And what if you don't write them a check?

I think they can put a lien on your property. So I just write the check. But if you can, I mean, that's the problem, right? If you can't, you know, if you're running thin, which most people do, right? Most people aren't sacking away, you know, tons of cash to store just in case a special assessment comes up. You know, I don't know. I think that's one of the big reasons that I kind of tell people to shy away from condos is those things are scary. But at the same time, listen, you need cash to invest.

in buying whole property. You have to have some kind of cash, whether it's yours or a line of credit or some kind of access to cash. And if you don't, you should not be in that business. You really, really need to make sure you have that, correct? That's right. A lot of people think you can buy properties with no or low money down. Oh, boy. I believe I saw that book in your screen just a moment ago. See, that's what I thought. See, he's just giving me a hard time. No, I believe I'm 100%. And that's why I wanted to touch on what else you said there is is the line of credit thing because that's from that same kind of concept of creative investing. But no, I actually agree 100%. You might be able to invest in real

estate with no or low money down, but it doesn't mean you can invest in real estate when you're completely flat broke. And I think I make that pretty clear in the first chapter of those people who have read it, you know, hopefully they agree with me on that one. But like, yeah, because you have to have money for those things that come up because they will come up. I mean, I know somebody who got a house. What was the story? Now I don't remember the exact details, but it was something like they bought a rental, and then like the very first month they had an eviction, and it was a terrible eviction that took like nine months,

and they destroyed the house in the process. And it was like $8,000 or $10,000 hit on their very first month with their very first rental. Yeah, I mean, those things are unlikely, but it happens. I mean, those things do happen. So again, yeah, even if you're going to invest creatively, make sure you have some kind of reserves. We only have had one horror story,

and it was similar to that where the lady wanted to rent the house, And I said, well, I haven't made my decision yet, but she also painted. So I said, I need to have it painted. So I'll pay you to paint the inside of the house, which involved me giving her a key. So here comes everybody, cats included. Really? Yeah. I mean, the cat part is really the freaky thing.

She actually, when I finally got rid of them, they abandoned the cat. And my wife and I had to find a home for the cat. You didn't keep it? Come on, Glenn, the cat guy. She's allergic to cats and dogs. I'm allergic to cats and dogs. Is that right? I suck it up, yeah.

Wow. Hey, Glenn, go ahead. I was just saying it was for a call on that. Yeah, smart. Yeah. Well, so I want to kind of jump a little bit because we're talking about special assessments. We're talking about condos. We're talking about Florida.

Florida is a place that scares me as a potential investment. I mean, it's amazing. Listen, you know, people go there to die, right? I mean, you know, I'm from New York. I go there for Disney World. I don't know what you're talking about. I mean, if you're from New York and you hit like 55, you pretty much, you know, suddenly live in Florida. It's like, it's a law or something like that. You have to do it. You have to do it. But, and obviously, you're not dead at 55, you know. Anyway, but Florida, you got those hurricanes and those things, you know, can really reap havoc. And so what's your take on it? Have you bought other properties there? Obviously, you got whacked by that one hurricane.

What I did was, I did that. I haven't bought anything else. there yet. Even when you're looking at cash flow, if your condo association fees 360 and you have a mortgage on top of that, it's kind of tough to make money. So what I learned was I really don't think that buying something side-unseen in Florida was, you know, anybody could write a check and do something like that. The trick was saying, okay, this isn't going well, but I was still convinced that real estate was my means to an end. And so, you know, I told my wife, I said, you don't buying that second, third, fourth property is the trick. So just say, hey, I know it's going to work, and I'm not going to do this again. I need to go buy some boring stuff in Iowa that cash flows so I can

go to Florida and hang out whatever I want. So we just change gears, and I realized the difference between speculation and buying for cash flow, and that was my one mistake. Are you still, are you, so you're, are you losing money on that on a monthly basis then? I lose a few hundred dollars a month on that condo. But you go and visit, right? Well, I go down and hang out for a few days and do a walk through and write the whole thing off like anybody would. So, right? Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. So Brandon mentioned his property. You've got this property. Both of you guys are holding on to properties that in a lot of ways are losers, right? I mean, these are properties that you guys are losing money on. For those folks who are listening, Brandon just hid. Oh, there he is. Like, why do you

continue to do that? Like, I could see doing that with your property, Glenn, if I, were to say, you know what, I'm going to go out a couple, you know, a weekend or I'm going to go out midweek for a couple days a month and, you know, get the enjoyment out of the property. But is it because you guys are both emotionally tied to those properties because they kind of helped you hop off? Or I'm just curious. And for those people listening, should other people do if they're in a similar situation? Should they do what you're doing? Or do you know that you shouldn't do what you're doing and you just can't get out? And I throw this to both of you guys. Well, I'll say this. The reason I kept it was because it was going up like a rock,

I mean, when it doubles in value in three years, you think you look in the mirror and you see a real estate genius, right? So I was pretty excited about that. And then I was smart enough I think to get a line of credit for $90,000. So that allowed me to buy four bread and butter properties here in Cedar Rapids. So I just kind of look at it sort of as a portfolio. So when the, when the market, the bubble burst and it went down, you guys are heard of the concept of underwater. So then I had a first and a second, and I was upside down on it. And so I just, it was an interest only second.

So I just kept it and just considered that a cost of capital. And you put that with the other four properties I bought, I'm making money and that's the goal. Yep. Gotcha. Brandon, what's your take? Well, I'm also like underwater, or at least like at an even point where it's worth about what I owe, probably not.

I'm probably a little underwater. But I don't know. I mean, like, I'd have to bring money to the table to get rid of it, which is a possibility. We considered that, knowing we call that our hellhouse because we've had like five or six bad ones in a row tenants. It just seems to attract that type of person. So we had a choice. Do we want to get rid of it?

Or do we want to give it to property management? We give it to property management. That's the one I talked about a couple months ago. It's one of the two I handed off because, I mean, I lose, I actually break even on the cash flow on a like rent versus mortgage. Like my rent is the rent we get. that place is like, I think it's 850 and my mortgage is 790. And then, you know, I think there's, I think we pay water or something like that. Right. So like we basically break even on that property.

And then whenever there's a tenant turnover, there's a couple thousand dollars, whenever there's a vacancy or, you know, repair, that costs a little bit of money. So I actually lose money on that. But I pay the mortgage down by several thousand every month. So in other words, right now today, it is a four savings account. 30 or 25, 24 years from today, it'll be paid off. And I won't, my tenant would have paid that mortgage for me over those years, essentially, sort of. Gotcha. It's like I'm, yeah. So do you guys, I mean, because this is a tough topic.

I mean, I'm not, you know, I bring this up because it's an important thing that you guys are not alone in this, right? There's a lot of people out there who are in a similar situation and they probably are, and I'm guessing you guys have had this conversation with your spouses or others. Like, ah, do we get rid of this thing? It's upside down. You know, it keeps kind of coming back, keeps coming back. like, what do we do? You know, these conversations happen amongst other investors, guys, whoever's listening. I mean, so, you know, recognize A, you're not alone in the situation.

And B, you know, everybody's going to have their own kind of reasoning for what they do. And the question is, is your reasoning sound or are you doing it because you're emotionally attached? And I think if you're doing it because of some kind of sound reasoning, Brandon, for savings account, it's not the greatest reason, but it's a reason enough, right? you know, Glenn, yours is you get the opportunity to go down, write it off, go to Florida, have fun, work on the tan a little bit, cool. But if you don't have reason, it's like, oh, well, I'm, I'm, should you be holding on still? If I, if you were an outsider talking to you, would you say hold on or get rid of it,

both of you guys? I'm at the point now where it's back to about break-even, but I've got a year-round renter who's been there almost four years. He's a white collar realtor type guy, you know, and, And he's just low maintenance and he pays me sometimes two months at a time when if he's going to be traveling and it's just sitting there and the market's coming back. And so, you know, I'm not emotionally attached to it. But if I was someone else and I had one money loser across the country and I could write a check of some sort and get out of it and move on,

lesson learned, I probably would do that. But a lot of people, they took out those second mortgages and then they went and bought motorcycles and whatever else they bought with them. And then it all collapsed and they bankruptcy and things like that. you know, we just didn't want to do that. We realized we need to keep good credit while we're building our portfolio. So we just sucked it up for a few hundred dollars a month. It just kept going and now we're back to where if we wanted to sell it, it would be no problem. But I select a path to leash resistance. I got other things to do. Yeah. Well, and for me, I think that you could actually kind of boil it down to a mathematical equation, right? Like, if it cost me $10,000 to get rid of this

property, I no longer have to deal with it, essentially I'm saying I'm investing, I'm investing $10,000 of my cash in order to earn the $200 a month on average I'm losing on that property. So, you know, $10,000, $200 a month, it's $24, that's 24% return on investment. Am I better off with the 24% return on investment off of paying that maybe? But if you add an appreciation on that potential appreciation or loan pay down, which is what I'm doing right now, it actually works out pretty well. So I guess I would probably- And I love that, by the way. That's- mathematical look at it. Well, I don't know if your math is. right. I wasn't really paying attention. Yeah, I did it kind of quick here. But, but I think that's

awesome. And that's a really good calculus for, you know, how to how to figure it out. It's going to cost you to sell. So does that make sense? And I think, you know, like one thing I tell people a lot when they screw up on, I mean, I used to screw up. Just they bought a deal early and it doesn't turn out today very well, whether it's the market, whatever, is use that as a springboard to do better next time. Right. So if you buy a property that loses $100 a month, you know, in cash flow, okay, well, use that lesson and go buy one that earns 200 and positive. And then now you're up by one. You know, like, and you can do that.

So, and then jumping back to what you said earlier, Glenn, I want to get to that topic of using a line of credit to buy another investment property. And so that's what you did. Now, back then, you could really easily get a line of credit on investment properties to that's a little bit more difficult. But being that's the entire chapter in my book, I figure I want to get your opinion on it. You know, what are your thoughts on that? How does that even work? Maybe from my stupid simple standpoint, somebody who has never heard of that concept before. What are we even talking about?

I have been getting lines of credit established. The best time anybody will tell you is to do it when you don't need it. Because if you go to them and say, hey, I got a deal. I need this. It just can't happen fast enough. So get your lines set up beforehand. Now, that particular one, they gave me a $90,000 line of credit based on that equity in the condo. And it was interest only, and it was for like 15 years or something.

It was just really good terms. So I used that to buy four properties. Well, when I got to about the fourth property, I was up to $72,000, and that's when the bank went, hey, wait a minute. We're not sure we're really secured on this loan. And I was laughing because I couldn't believe they gave me the money. But so I bought four bread and butter properties here in Cedar Rapids. And I make money on every one of those every month, you know, except when there's a new roof to put on or something, which will happen.

But so I just kept paying that minimum payment, minimum payment. And then one day I refinanced from 25% down to 15% down on basically the whole portfolio and wound up with a bunch of cash and I just went back and paid off that line, and so it's gone. Nice. But in the meantime, I establish other lines of credit. And I actually use those, exercise them just so I've got them there. If I'm using cash all the time and I don't exercise a line of credit, I'm afraid it'll go away on me.

So sometimes I'll pay these people some interest to take, say, $50,000 and put it toward a deal. deal and then a couple weeks or a month later refinance it and then pay them back and then I wait a little while and I ask them for more money. So is that a standard practice for those people who don't know how lines of credit work? I mean, if say you get a line of credit for 100 grand, you know, they give it to you for, I don't know, five, ten years and you're one and a half and you haven't touched it. They might take it away. Is that right?

I think that's true. I've been told and I've read that that's what you should do to keep it going and make it, have them grow it, you know, so you never know what you're going to need the money for. So it's just better to have the access to it. And so I throw them a little interest every now and then and just keep so, so maybe some day where there's a really big deal, you know, I'm in a position to do something about it. Yeah. Gotcha.

Just see another like real life, real life example of how you can use a line of credit. This is something that just popped in my head this morning, honestly. Like I was thinking, you know, I have a pretty decent amount of equity in my house, not a massive amount, but I owe like 80,000 on my house and it's worth about 150. So I have like, you know, it was a good appraisal, or what was that, $70,000, yeah, $70,000 with equity. Now, a bank might give me half of that, let's say, let's say I can go and take out $30,000 in a line of credit. What I'm hoping to do, and I think is take that $30,000 and use that as a 20% down payment on my next house or on a rental property, but I kind of want to move to a better, you know, a little bit bigger house that I can, I don't know, have a piano in because my wife plays piano. So anyway, I might take that $30,000 line of credit, go put that on a down payment as another

primary residence for myself and then have a house for no money down. I mean, it's just another strategy. You can use a line of credit as a means to acquire a different property. Then if that one, if I built some good equity into it, I could go get a line of credit on that later on and then go do that to the next one. You can kind of do that a number of times before you're, you know, provided you have the income to get the loan on. And every time it gets more difficult, sort of.

You should get a boat and a motorcycle. Exactly. Well, and that's actually a really good point, right? So like a lot, like you said earlier, a lot of people would do this like over leverage thing. Like they'd take all their money out and then they'd invest in or they'd buy cars or vacations or whatever. It's the idea of taking out your asset, which is your equity and then buying a liability with it. It's that whole rich dad or cash flow quadrant thing of going the wrong direction with that. And moving on. Let's get out of this. So fascinating discussion. Yeah, yeah, I love that stuff. How many deals do you currently have like how many properties do you own and what are they? The condo and 27 single family homes. 27. That's a good number of single family homes. Do you manage those? Go ahead. All in Iowa really quick.

They are. I've downloaded a couple times where I knew of something out of state. Somebody maybe knew the house through a family member or something. I bought a house in Missouri. It was a foreclosure. But, you know, as I've sort of refined my business model, it just these one-offs here and one-offs there just doesn't make as much sense. So I'm here in Cedar Rapids.

I have probably does. property is over in Davenport, which is about an hour and 15 minutes away. And it's just, if there's an emergency, it's a lot easier. But my plan is to automate it a little bit more and empower people and get processes so that, you know, I don't have to, I don't fix anything unless it's just obvious that I, hey, it's something simple. And I'm here and I have a screwdriver. I'll put that doorknob back on for you.

But, you know, I don't, if it's anything else, I usually just have the handyman take care of it. And what's the average acquisition cost on? properties in Iowa. And Davenport, isn't that where, isn't the quad cities or something? Isn't that where? That's right. Yep. Okay. Okay. A little gambling mecca up there, right? Oh, I guess so. There's the casinos. I try to stay out of them. But it's too much fun. Nice. Well, I'd say, I'm looking for houses usually in the 90 to 100K, you know, maybe give or take a little bit.

I have a few that are more like 150, 160, but I don't like to get down into the 2% properties. We have a part of town where you can buy a $40,000 house and rent it out for $8,900. But the hassle factor just isn't worth it to me. So I provide a little nicer properties, a little nicer neighborhood, and run it out like that. And your turnover is less. It's just, like I said, a lotless hassle. Yeah, I like that. The hassle factor.

I don't think I've ever heard a phrase like that. Use it. Yeah, I'm going to. I'll write a book. the hassle factor. I mean, that's a discussion that is very popular on the Bigger Pockets blog. There's a new post about that every month or so. Usually Ben Labovich is behind it.

And like, why I don't, you know, he's got like several, why I don't buy $30,000 junkers or fixers or whatever. And maybe can we kind of expand on that a little bit more? I mean by hassle factor. I rent mostly to organizations and companies. I think I've told you about that where it's not an individual or a family. It's an institution or a company where they provide. services for people's special needs.

So instead of dealing with, hey, I lost my job or they cut my hours or this or that, you know, or hey, the roof's leaking. I buy a nice house and keep it maintained, not necessarily fancy, but then I rent to mostly to these companies who then kind of manage everything. And so it's like business to business communications. Everything's with an email. It's not a bunch of late night text and phone calls and, you know, toilets stopped up and that sort of thing.

So I'm just, I'm like, I'm not the most ambitious guy in the world. So I'm not, you know. How did you even get into that? Like the idea. Yeah, we've got to talk about this. Yeah, because this seems much better. I mean, I mean, my tenants are often a hassle. I mean, I rent to not quite like the $30,000, $40,000 houses, but, you know,

the multifamilies are kind of in that group, but there can be a hassle sometimes to deal with. But the idea of renting to a company like this, and both me and Josh used to work in these industries. I used to do the overnight shift. That's when I discovered real estate. I did the overnight shift at a group home. There's like four developmentally disabled adults that lived in this home. And I did the overnight shift. And I was flipping through channels watching flip this house. And that's how this like kind of at the very beginning all started. And I was I was teaching high school at a special ed school where a good number of our kids lived in group homes. And it was the same kind of thing. And the homes were owned. And I don't know if in our situation, the homes were

owned by the organization. The organization was running from an individual like yourself. But I think it's a fascinating model. Really quickly on the hassle factor. I mean, I think the hassle factor takes into account things like lower income properties. You're going to have higher turnover, higher evictions, potentially greater odds of damage, that kind of stuff. More phone calls. More phone calls. But you're talking about even taking it a step further. You're not even dealing with the hassle factor on the blue collar, less drama, less drama thing. You're talking like, least possible drama, I'm going straight to a business entity who's got a level of professionalism that's going to supposedly considerably higher. How'd you fall into that?

My wife, after several years of being investing in real estate, she decided to quit her job and become a realtor and thought that would be a nice partnership, you know. So she's still a realtor today. And one of her colleagues was on the board at one of these nonprofit organizations and they were having issues with several of the houses. They have like two dozen houses and four of them they weren't happy with for some reason or another. I mean it could be that the folks have been there so long they can't do stairs anymore or it could be that landlords raising the rent or whatever their issue is. So I used that line of credit to buy four houses in 2008. So I bought four houses for that institution in 2008. And

Basically, they would say, well, this group of guys needs to be near a bus line. And, you know, they go to the, take the bus and they go someplace every day. Another house, they might say, that doesn't matter to us, but we can't have stairs. So you might, or we've got a, you know, you might even have to remove a gas stove and put an electric stove because they don't feel like it's safe to have a gas one. So whatever their special needs are. So they tell me what the requirements are. And then I go out and find houses. So my wife and I, we go out and find the house.

and we give them a short list that meet our requirements that meet their apparent needs. And then we say, well, what about this one? What about this one? And they say, yeah, this would be great. You know, we negotiate the rent, and then I buy the house, and then they move in. And I've only had one house where they've moved out since March of 2008. We bought the first one. So I don't even, I don't interview the people are actually going to be living in the house,

so I don't deal with applications or background checks or any of those things. Wow. Wow. This is what I'm talking about here. This is called easy breezy landlording, man. I told you I wasn't that ambitious. Wow. Wow. So now you said 27 SFRs. Are all those now filled by folks from this organization or others? Well, 25 of the 28 properties that rent to some sort of organization. No kidding. I'm dealing with five different organizations now. So we started with the one. and then we bought a fifth one for them the next year.

And then I got laid off somewhere in the middle of all that. And then we a couple years went by and we just picked up one here, one there for regular, you know, just found a good deal. So we bought it. But then I started saying, you know, I'm comparing notes mentally between dealing with this company and dealing with these individuals. And I think I like this better. And so then I started networking a little bit and finding other organizations.

that might have similar needs. And so then these people all know each other. It's an industry. And so they go to the same trainings and things like that. So you start networking and getting referrals and hopefully develop a good reputation. So next thing you know, you can say, hey, customer, company A, I work with company B, C, and D and drop a few names. And they can check your references if they want. Then they can feel comfortable letting you help them with their housing needs.

Wow. Great idea. Really, really great idea. Don't tell anybody. Yeah, apparently. Nobody's listening. Nobody's listening. This is the Josh and Brandon show.

We have my mom listening and Brandon's wife. But yeah. She stopped a long time ago, Josh. So, my mom. So, well, you've got these organizations. The rent checks come in regularly. Have you had any challenges with tenants? Or is not even an issue because the organization deals with them.

They kick them out and they'll throw somebody else in if there's an issue. Or how does that work? They deal with the tenants. I try. I mean, I interact if I go over there, they get to know you. If it's like there's one, it's literally four or five houses down. So, you know, if it's anything simple, I go check it out myself. It's just so convenient.

But they, you know, I don't have to fill out applications, the individuals. I rent it to the institution, to the company, is responsible. They actually all but one check. Everything else is electronic. I mean, I literally get electronic funds transfer for, you know, five rents for this company, and here's 14 for this one, and here's, you know, so I don't even have to collect the checks. And as far as managing what's going on, they handle all the issues because I'm not,

you know, caregiver. I have no opinion on that. But there are instances where, depending on the level of functioning level of the tenant, they might have outbursts and punch a hole in the wall and that sort of thing. So we just have a standing agreement that don't tell me about. it's just fix it and don't bother me. Yeah, so they know they damage it. They need to fix it. And so they just take care of it. That's what I was going to ask. Because yeah, I know when I was in that, I mean, there were things breaking all the time. Right. Like, I mean, especially, yeah, some of the

clients were just, I mean, they were just violent. And one of the guy would just break his window all the time. Like, I mean, again, if you just have that. There's an upside of that. Yeah, I mean, They take care of it. My son has a house that he rents to my same customer. And one guy kept breaking out the windows. And when he broke the window, they, I mean, they literally broke every window in a house. And the company came back and had to put all new, well, he can't get old crappy wood windows. Unbreakable windows.

Yeah. So they put in nice, double-piled vinyl windows. And they'd knock holes in the door. And so they would go get solid oak doors so that he couldn't do that anymore. And so, you know, they've slowly renovated that house for him. But that's really an outlier. Most of them are not like that at all. You always talk about the horror stories.

Yeah, exactly. Usually it's just month after month of getting paid and dealing with small maintenance issues that I usually have someone else do. Fascinating. There are two kinds of real estate investors, those who have reviewed their insurance, and those who think that they have.

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There's even a dedicated bill inbox for each property to keep everything organized. Ready to simplify your workflow? book your free demo at bill.com slash bigger pockets and get a $100 Amazon gift card. That's bill.com slash bigger pockets. Okay. Well, how do you find deals? I mean, how are you finding these properties? Just because your wife's an agent, is just all MLS or you doing direct mail or anything fancy like that? This is a completely 180 out of phase with what people are doing as normal investors.

So instead of finding the good deal somehow and then going out and finding the tenant, I mean, we start with the tenant and the layout, the location, everything. So one of the downsides is I pay retail pretty much for everything. But you can still use investor principles. I want to tell you about the last deal I did where I was trying to find a house. They had a different town, Iowa City down the road, very expensive. So I found one that was very dated. It was an estate and it was $99,000.

And I'd been looking for a three-bedroom. Couldn't find anything that was affordable. So I took the people that work for that company over to the house, and I said, now imagine, you know, fresh paint. And imagine, you know, updated fixtures and carpet and new vinyl and some appliances. And so this is the second time I've done this for them. So they said, okay. And so it took me a month. I had, well, you know, I just wrote the checks and said, yeah, we're going to do this, this and this.

And had a guy do it. And we actually got the house for 85K because we did cash. And then put about $10,000 in carpet and paint and light fixtures and things like that. And that's $95,000. It appraised for $1.26. I went to the bank. I got a loan for, it could have been up to $100, but I just said, give me the $95 I've got in it. So then I got a mortgage for $95.

And then I've got $31,000 worth of equity, a satisfied tenant with everything's fresh and new on the inside. And I really was out of pocket, no money. Love it. Yeah, but I like to talk about those because, just to say, hey, I go in the MLS and they buy something, pay top dollar for it's not very impressive. What about rents? Are they paying market rent or are they paying slightly above

because you kind of have to go a little bit above and beyond to make the property friendly? And you're really, you know, you're kind of like a personal shopper, so to speak, for people, right? I mean, you go and, hey, we need this kind of property with these things. And, okay, I'll get it for you. I'm going to say that it's market rent. but that's within $100

of market rent on any house. I mean, the last thing you want to do is look like you're taking advantage of these nonprofits or anything. So, so, you know, it's always a thumb in the air. It's like, okay, should this be a thousand or a thousand fifty or, you know, $9.75? You know, that kind of thing.

But it's a nice niche. And if you charge a fair rent, keep the house up nice. You get good referrals. You eliminate vacancy. you eliminate turnover and that sort of thing. That's worth something to me. So I'm not necessarily making more money and higher rent, but I'm making it. And I just, when I go to a bank and say I've got 28 properties, I haven't had a vacancy in five years.

They just prove it, you know, so I have to show all my tax returns. You know, it's just, it doesn't, I have to explain it every time. I think most investors would call you on BS on that one too. And it's true. I love it. I mean, this is really, really a cool. strategy, a cool niche. You know, there's not a lot of room for competition, though.

I mean, how many people can come into your town and take over? Not a lot of people, you know, so that's the cool thing about, you know, focusing on that niche and starting to own it. And I'm assuming, you know, there's opportunity around the country for other folks listening to do something like this. But, you know, they better not show up in Davenport, the Army General to go after. That's right. Well, I was a sergeant, but still.

You know, close enough. They do all the work. It is a bit of a risk. I had to think about that whether I wanted to go public with what I'm doing because I kept it really quiet for a long time. Yeah. But I think after you've been doing it long enough and you've got a good reputation and you can get referrals.

And if you said, hey, I heard this is a good deal. And you went to my customer and said, I want you to start moving people because I want to collect the rent. Right. If they're not unhappy, they're not going anywhere. Yeah, right. So now if people want to do this other places, that's one of the reasons I wanted to do the podcast to encourage people

to keep an open mind when they're dealing with an organization like this because it's horse of a different color. You don't really understand, hey, where do you work? Let me see your W2, what your credit score. And it doesn't really fit into that box. But it's got some tremendous upsides. You're doing good to society as a whole too, which is really, I think, one of the coolest parts of it.

Altruistic, I don't know. I'll let you say that. That's cool. I like it. My in-laws actually have a duplex, And one of their units they rent out to a, like a religious organization of missionaries, right? So like they move new people in every, I think it's four to six months or whatever. And but they have a contract with the religious organization.

And they haven't had a vacancy in, what, three, four years, never any problems. I mean, it's just flawless. And I'm very jealous of that rental that they have. It's the easiest, easy breezy, as you put it, Josh, like landlord experience. Because, yeah, it definitely is a cool niche, like, invest, landlooding to, companies that then rented out to somebody else. Yeah. Fantastic.

It's a lot like that. Another downside note for an investor is if you want to grow your business really fast, you may not have the opportunity in your area because it may not just be enough people to work with. So it's maybe an addition to your investing strategy, you know, as opposed to, you know, jump in with both feet because it's taking a while to kind of put this together. But now I'm full time as of the first of the year. Oh, cool.

I was just going to ask that. That was my last question. Is you still work a full-time job? Thank you. I wasn't even working a full-time job when I had a full-time job. No, I was working from home. I was working from home as like an account manager and aerospace. And so I had plenty of time to switch back and forth between my work email and my, you know,

hot mail and podcast and sit on the front porch and listen to a podcast and watch cars go by. Nice. You know, I love it. But it was a good job and a good company and all that. It was a very amicable departure. but I just kind of at the point where, yeah, I'm not excited about that anymore. I've been doing that for 30 years. Fantastic.

That's great. Really, really cool stuff. Well, I think it's time to move forward. It is. It is time for the Fire Round, which is sponsored by the Bigger Pockets Live webinars hosted weekly by me. That's right. If you've not attended one of my weekly webinars, you are missing out, my friends. Last week, we talked about how to quit your job through the power of real estate.

This week, we're talking about how to find finance and analyze deals. and who knows what we'll be talking about next week. Well, you can find out what we're going to be talking about by going to biggerpockets.com slash webinar and signing up there. And we'll continually update that page with the newest webinar. Again, that is biggerpockets.com slash webinar. And with that, let's get to the fire round.

It's time for the fire round. All right, these questions from the fire round come straight from the Bigger Pockets forums. And we're going to fire the match, Glenn. Are you ready? Can you handle the heat? I'm ready. All right.

Number one, what are some key factors real estate investors look for in homes? Like what makes a rundown home valuable, bedrooms, locations, etc.? Like, what should an investor look for to provide value? I think it varies by market. Obviously, it's a cop-out. But for instance, the house that was just telling you about that deal, which was like a no-money-down deal, I saw that there was a bedroom, it could be a bedroom in the basement. It had the window and the foundation, and the rest was just like some drywall and a vent

and a light fixture. So I was able to turn a three-bedroom into a four-bedroom, and that's how I was able to get that much equity. So looking to force some kind of equity like that is a good way of doing it. And somebody was just asking me about a two-bedroom. I said, I just would probably stay away from two bedrooms if there were three bedrooms to buy.

I just try to find houses that have the most utility that are maybe a little underloved and fix them off a little bit. Yeah, I love that. And what you said, going from like two to three or three to four, especially two to three. If there's that third bedroom, that's the number one thing I look for in a property

is if it says two bedroom, I say, is there a way to make it three? Because that adds so much value in my name right anyway. And if possible, like even if the organization's saying, hey, this group can do stairs, I still look for a slab because I can't, you know, maybe the next person that moves in

to take someone's place does have a stair problem. So I try to look for the most utility. Yeah, smart. I love it. Right on, right on. All right. Well, next question. When working with a foreclosure, how do you find out which bank owns the property?

That's whoever has it listed. I mean, I've bought a few like that, but there was a sign in the yard and it says, you know, called this person. I know that person. Yeah. The person who does it. Let me ask you a better question. No, I think the question is.

No, because I hardly ever. I'm not reading this. Yeah, because you hardly ever know who the bank is. You know who the real estate agents is that's selling it. But typically the bank, the only way I know to find it is. to look up on them, I mean, look up on the county records. Or you can call the agent and say, hey, what bank is this? I was just looking at one that had a sign in the yard.

No, no sign yet. And so I found out it was a look to the assessors that said something about Wells Fargo. So I'd call Wells Fargo. They gave me the reo.com. And you can look at their prop. But I still never figured out who owned it because they said, oh, we're managing for someone else. So I didn't get very far with that.

So I'll be interested to find out what the, I can't answer that way. I found that as well, though. There's a few properties. No matter what I did, I could not find out who owned it. Like, ultimately owned it because it just, it was, yeah, anyway, it's possible. But I think the crux of the question was the second half of it is. I didn't understand the damn question.

Should you even contact them? Like, is that, are you supposed to contact the bank to negotiate a foreclosure? Or do you just work through the real estate agent? I think that was kind of the, I'm guessing that was there just. I'll answer it this way. I always just use a real estate agent, but. Yeah. Me too.

And as a heads up, you know, since we're talking about this, about eight, nine years ago, I think nine, maybe ten years ago, I started a directory of banks that offer ARIO listings. So you can literally go directly to the bank's website and see what properties that they have available for sale. And most of those websites just point and say, talk to your real estate agent or talk to this real estate. A lot of them do, but you can still pick up, you know, you can still kind of access and say, oh, okay, here's here's, uh, um, REOs. And obviously, those properties don't have any liens on them. So, you know, they're, yep, not necessarily good deals,

but, you know, odds of finding something are decent. You can find that at biggerpockets.com slash REO. It's biggerpockets.com slash REO or we'll have a link on the show notes at bigger pockets.com slash show 110. Perfect. All right. Next question. What is the difference between assessed value and appraised value on a property? The assessed value is what the city or county wants to base their taxes on, you know. So that's the assessed value. But the market value and what it would appraised for, those are two different things too. So theoretically, it's going to get an appraisal. It should be what the market value is. It could be above or below the assessed value. But I will, the house I live in now was assessed at 50, at least $50,000 more. It was like $195. And we bought it for $1.25.

And we have them come out the day we bought it and they lowered it $50,000. So our taxes went down about $1,200 a year, $100 a month. Wow, nice. So it can vary, very wildly, you know. But a credit union I was using was letting me use the assessed value if the assessed value was better than purchase price. So I've done some very low money-down deals. I think that guy's boss has caught on.

Well, and that's a really good tip there, which is, you know, hitting up the assessor and letting them know and kind of fighting for the valuation because there's a really good tip there, which is going to the assessor and fighting the valuation because you can actually negotiate it down. I think there's something that a lot of people didn't know that they can do. So if you were not aware, definitely keep that in mind going forward. Yeah. I know in my area, our assessed values are way lower than our property values. And they do that. I don't know why they do that. I think it's because They don't want people calling and complaining.

So, like, my house is assessed at, like, I think, 60,000 right now or 50,000. Even though, like, I paid, well, I paid like 60,000, but then I fixed it up and whatever else. But, like, you know, it's worth 150. They're typically a half to even a third of what the actual value is, which is crazy. But then what I find is certain banks will only go off the assessed value. So I go to the bank and I'm saying, you know, I want to loan on my house. So like, okay, well, it looks like the assessed value is 50,000. That's the only number we will use.

And I'm like, but that doesn't, I mean, that's ridiculous. They only use that number just to base taxes off of. That's it. And I can't convince, I mean, it's usually the big national banks that have done that to me. Which is why I work with private, local, private money lenders and local banks. That's exactly what I do. I wouldn't deal with a big bank like that. They just have to many rules.

If they're keeping the house, the loan in-house, they have a lot more flexibility as to how they do it. Yep. I love portfolio lenders for that reason. Anyway, okay, last question. All right, Glenn, last question. Not a question I would ask you, but I've been told I have to. This is the most popular question in the forums of this week. Well, but some people like asking, answering and others, it's none of your damn business.

So what kind of car do you drive and why? Is it new use? And how does this play into your investing? I actually bought a truck. So, you know, when I first, well, I just felt like it was a better fit because I did have a 325-I bright red that I was driving around and then I would go to a rental property and tell them they couldn't have a new whatever and then I'd try to get a shovel out of my back seat and put a thing and it was just it just kind of sent the wrong message and it wasn't very utilitarian so I drive

a 2012 Toyota Tundra. I love Tundras. I want a Tundra. Anyway, it was a fascinating discussion. There's 168 right now comments on that thread of what car do you drive and why? It's just a fascinating discussion on like, I don't know, what people spend their money on investor-wise. It's kind of cool. So check it out, people. I'll put a link to it in the show notes. Awesome. All right, moving on. By the way, I don't own that truck. An LLC does. They just let me drive it. Oh, there we go. Just like we talked about that last week with Scott about the attorney, about putting things into LLCs and all that. So if people haven't listened to that one, make sure

you check that show out. It was fascinating. BiggerPockets.com slash show 109. But all right, moving on. We are going to the world famous. All right, these questions we ask everyone. And I know you listen to our show, Glenn, so you know what's coming. Number one, what is your favorite real estate book? I haven't read it yet. It's right here. Yeah.

Glenn, what book is that, Glenn? For the people who are listening to the podcast. It's Brandon's book. Oh, nice. Which they can get at biggerpockets.com slash no money. I just shameless plug for you. Yeah, thank you. Now I don't have to do it.

Well, everything goes back to the rich dad, poor dad book, which I try to get people to read, but just as a place to start. And I used to buy those books like you used to give them the people, and they would never comment on it. So I just quit doing that. And I said, you don't help yourself. And so I just finished one that was very tedious. It was how I turned a thousand into a million in real estate in my spare time. And it was 500 pages.

But if you needed proof that it could be done, he'll show you every number. Yeah, that was Nickerson, right? I love that book. Yeah, I love that book. It is a longer book, but I really like that strategy. He's got kind of the trading up thing that I'm a big fan of the hybrid investing, I call it. So, cool. Josh. All right.

How about business? What is your favorite business book and why? You know, I don't read business books more than once, and it's usually required reading in a class or something. But there was one called The Goal. I don't think I've heard anyone mention, G-O-A-L, the goal. and it's by any gold rat, G-L-D-R-A-D-T. It's like from the 84, I think, and it's about a theory of constraints.

So it's more of a process management, program management, like you're running a factory kind of a thing, but it talks about constraints, and it uses Socratic reasoning and things. And I don't know, it just was interesting to me, even though I'm a sales guy. So, cool, cool, cool. I love new book suggestions.

What about hobbies? do you do for fun? Well, the training for the, what are we training for? Training for marathons and my Mentsa meetings keep me pretty busy. Wow. So hard to know if that's the wise ask, Glenn McCorree. Oh, yeah.

McRoury. You got to say your name right. What do you really do? I really know because you're not a Mensa guy, are you? No, I'm not doubting that you're a Mense guy. I want you to be a Mense guy. I hear they throw cool parties. You didn't have to ask about the running part.

I think you. Actually, I'm doing less and less with work. You know, my work wasn't really that time-consuming. So real estate is kind of like my hobby. I really enjoy it. And it's one of those, hey, if you do what you love, you never work. So real estate's kind of my hobby. Now, that being said, you know, golf, cigars, you name it.

You know, I find lots of fun things to do. and we spent a month down in Florida. My wife and I this past winter. Nice. Where I called my boss and told him I quit. Did it from Florida. I did, yeah. By the way, here's a picture on Instagram.

I really did. Oh, that's funny. That's funny. My parents are in Florida right now, and they're like mid-50s, just like Josh said. They're going there to, they're not living there, though. They're on a vacation, but yeah, they're going for a month. So I guess that's what you do when you're, you know, older. Unencumbered by

Unencumbered, yes. There you go. All right. My final question, what do you believe sets apart successful real estate investors from those who give up, fail, or never get started?

I think it's two things. I think, first of all, you have to have a reason to want to change your life. And real estate was kind of the, it was the answer to the equation. It wasn't like, hey, I want to get in real estate.

It's like, hey, here's where I'm at. And I don't want to, I think I know where I'm going. And I don't want to, How can I change that? And so I kind of used the big pile theory. Everybody put their money in a pile. And when I finally got to some people in real estate, you're like, well, that's something

I think I can do. I can't inherit it. I can't be the CEO of a large corporation. So I started focusing on real estate. And so you have to have a reason to want to change your life. And then secondly, when you realize, when you see like in this William Nickerson book, hey, you can do it. It's not rocket science.

You just got to start doing it and do it. And you really believe that that's going to work. Anyway, that's kind of what I think. It's just you have to have an impetus to get started and then you have to stick to it. And when you rent your condo to your sister, you need to pick yourself up and go buy property number two, number three, and try not to make the same mistakes over and over again. I love it. Right on.

Fabulous, man. That's great. And we know you're not going to make that mistake again. You didn't have to plug it twice. I mean, I know your sister gave you permission, but you take it a little farther, Glenn. I'm just saying, stick with it. I have other mistakes. We just didn't get to those. Awesome. All right, man.

Well, where can people find out more about you? Where can they find you? Professionally, I would just say bigger pockets. I get on there a few times a week and listen to almost all the podcasts. So I'm on there quite a bit. When I put the old, I quit my job post up. I got a lot of traction on that one. So anybody just said, you know, congratulations. I didn't respond to. People had questions. I tried to answer every one of them. So I like to help. Cool. That's great.

And people who can connect with you if they go to the show notes at biggerpockets.com. So I show 110 will have a link to your profile. They can send you a call your quest and I get to know you a little more there. Great. Perfect. Thanks for having a other show. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for being on the show.

We really, really do appreciate it. And again, I love the idea. I think it's great this whole renting to organizations as a means for avoiding the, you know, the hell factor or I forget what you called it. But, asshole factor. There you go. That's great. That's great. Well, thanks again, Glenn.

We'll see you around. All right, guys. That was Glenn McCrory. Making all kinds of moves buying real estate that is managed by corporations and tenanted by corporate. It's just a really cool idea. It is a very cool strategy.

I really want to like, I think I'm going to go make some phone calls. I know a lot of the group homes in my area. I'm just going to ask them, hey, you guys are looking for any new properties. Not a bad idea. It's a two-minute phone call. and you never know what might happen.

There you go. Great, great, great. You know what? There's like your action to take today, right guys? Try that out. Do the same thing. Yep, do it. Awesome.

All right, guys. Listen, thanks for being a part of our world. Thanks for listening to the show. Show notes again are biggerpockets.com slash show 110. If you're not already on, biggerpockets.com, jump on. You get to hang out and spend time with guys like Glenn who are making things happen every single day. These are movers and shakers and doers.

So get out there and connect. And otherwise, you know, let us know if there's anything we can do to help you out at Bigger Pockets, jump on the forums and ask us. And we're happy to help. So thanks for being a part of our world. Thanks for listening to the show. And we will catch you next time on the world famous Bigger Pockets podcast. But aren't you signing off? Signing off.

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