BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 116: How to Quit Your Job Through Wholesaling, Flipping, and Taking Action with Nasar Elarabi

Episode Date: April 2, 2015

On this episode of the BiggerPockets Podcast, learn what it took for Nasar Elarabi to quit his dead-end job and become a full time wholesaler, flipper, and landlord. Tune in for discussions covering how he funds his deals, what makes him a better landlord, and why he’s tried his hand at many avenues of real estate. In this not only informative, but also wildly entertaining episode, Nasar shares his tales of success and the failures that helped him learn — including the first flip he ever undertook (that turned out to be disastrous). This show is packed with a heavy dose of motivation and miles of actionable content, so don’t waste another minute. Just hit “play!” In This Episode We Cover: How Nasar got into real estate  The story of how he got it all wrong with his first flip What he learned from those mistakes How he shifted to buy & hold properties What you should know about debt to income ratios How Nasar funds his deals How he became “too stupid to quit“ Why he shifted once again to wholesaling What makes him a better landlord now Interesting information on owner financing How to know when to quit your job The ins and outs of achieving a “slam dunk deal“ The importance of working with the right people What exactly code enforcement leads and delinquent tax leads are What makes him different from other investors And SO much more. Links from the Show: BiggerPockets Forums: Success Stories Forum Thread about the Danger of Wholesaling Is Real Estate Wholesaling Illegal? BiggerPockets Webinar Replay Agent’s Guide BiggerPockets Ultimate Beginner’s Guide to Real Estate Investing 99Designs BiggerPockets Podcast Show 100 BiggerPockets’ Facebook BiggerPockets’ Twitter Books Mentioned in this Show Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill Brandon Turner’s The Book on Investing in Real Estate with No (and Low) Money Down You Can Make It Happen: A Nine Step Plan for Success by Stedman Graham Tweetable Topics: “Slow down and learn to focus on that one thing that you want.” (Tweet This!) “Just because you own four houses does not make you a real estate expert.” (Tweet This!) “Sometimes you’ve got to jump off the roof and get your wings on your way down.” (Tweet This!) “You’re going to learn more doing it than reading a book.” (Tweet This!) Connect with Nasar Nasar’s Website Nasar’s BiggerPockets Profile Nasar’s Youtube Nasar’s Facebook Nasar’s Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast, show 1. 16. Oh, well, at that time, I was too stupid to quit. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the height, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on, everybody? This is Josh Dork and host to the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, Mr. Brandon Turner.

What up, Brandon? What up? How you doing? I'm good, man. I'm good. I'm good. It's a beautiful spring, sunny day. Enjoying life, you know?

What about yourself? Things are good. I've had kind of a dry spell with buying rental properties in a while and I'm getting two next week. So it's kind of exciting. And my apartment complex refinance went through or goes through tomorrow. So this was a very, very good week in many regards. Wow. Does it hurt?

What hurts? Patting yourself on the back. Yeah, you know, my arm's getting a little sore. I'm just asking. It's been a, I'm going to leave a success story in the forums because I like to brag about it. And there's a quick tip for everyone today is leave a success story when you do something cool. Let all the people know. It makes people happy.

Awesome. But the real quick tip, we should probably get to, right? We should. We should. All right, today's quick tip is on, quick tip. Yeah. On the topic of wholesaling. So why don't you give this one?

Yeah, yeah, go for it, man. So I wrote an article the other day, and that's why we're bringing this up. So there's also a very, very good thread in the forums right now about wholesaling, about the danger of wholesaling, actually, in like the state of Ohio and a few other states, they're really cracking down on wholesalers. And so I wrote this article called Is Real Estate Wholesaling Illegal? You get to it at BiggerPockets.com slash illegal wholesaling. It's just really important to know how you're wholesaling and what you're doing,

because if you do it wrong, you could end up with a fine and breaking the law, which is very bad. So, I mean, basically, it kind of surrounds around the concept of what is a broker and what do you have to have a license, a real estate license to do and what, don't you? And there's a lot of debate and a lot of discussion. But anyway, again, read that article. If you are even remotely interested in wholesaling, make sure you check out the article at bickerpockets.com slash illegal wholesaling. Yeah.

And it gives a really good perspective on the topic. It's not going to give you the law. Yeah, we're not lawyers. yeah we're not lawyers but but I almost you were almost I almost went to law school but that's not almost the same thing right well I like how this is all about you one billionaire once again it usually is you know that's what that's all the audience cares about can we can we go on move on moving on whatever seriously wow all right guys today's pro tip is this

listen to the bigger pockets previous webinars you can check them out not just listen but watch you can listen you can watch you can watch we We do webinars every week. You can check them out at biggerpockets.com slash pro replay. That's biggerpockets.com slash pro replay, including the most recent one, how to quit your job through the power of real estate investing. So if you're a pro member, definitely check out that video. And that's just another reason to check out biggerpockets.com slash pro.

With that, why don't we get on to today's show? Today on the show, we're going to talk to Nasser El-Rabi, who used flipping and wholesaling as a means to quit his job, and he shares all about the struggles that he faced in doing that. He also talks a lot about how he's using these active investment strategies to build a rental property portfolio. I know that that's the goal of a lot of our listeners, so I definitely want you guys to pay very close attention to this one. We all joke that rentals are passive, but if you're spending nights matching receipts or guessing what a property earned last month, that's not passive at all.

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Because if you're going to hire a property manager, hire one that manages your investment like an investment. With that, let's get to the interview. Today's guest is Nasser. So Nassar, welcome to the show, man. It's great to have you on board. Thank you for having me on, man. I really appreciate it. Like being on Bigger Pockets podcast is like you actually made it in life. You're the Duru, man. Come on, we've made it by having the Duru on the show. I really appreciate it, though. Yeah, no problem. Well, you know, we appreciate it. I see you around a lot. I see you on Facebook. I see you on bigger pockets. I see you on other, you know, podcast. You're all over the place, right? Like, I know, you're always giving good advice and good stuff. So, of course, we had to get you on.

I've been thinking that actually for like a year now, like, man, we got to get you on the show. So I'm glad we finally did. Let's begin at the beginning, because that's a good place to start. How did you get invested? How did you get started investing in real estate? Not how did you get invested starting in real estate? That would be weird. How did you get started? Well, basically, what happened was, I was born and raised in New Jersey. Oh, man. I thought I smelled something funny. Yeah, I was thinking it.

I was thinking. Just kidding, New Jersey and Darren Seeger. Boy of the New Jersey. And a few years ago, when I was 19, I'm 31 now, but when I was 19, what happened was my I overheard my father and his friend talking about the guy next door who flipped a house. And basically, my father and a friend was saying how the guy bought the house for $150,000. put $20,000 and sold it to $270. Now, me being 19, I was in the back seat calculating like, whoa, that's $100,000 off of one house.

I got to get in the real estate. So one day I was sitting on my porch and the guy who actually flipped the house pulled up. And he pulls up with this brand new, whatever year it was, brand new white range rover in this beautiful model woman hopping out the passenger seat. So were they shooting a commercial or was this one of the gurus, you know, like, hey, we're going to shoot a commercial here? No, it wasn't a commercial. But at that point, at 19, I say, I'm sold. I'm doing real estate.

Nice. That's awesome. That's also. So how did that work itself out? I mean, you know, you're 19. Did you start then? Did you, you know, you know, just kind of do something else for a while and then get in? into it? How did it eventually happen? Well, basically, see, I don't know about you guys, but

me, when I was any age before 26, I pretty much knew everything. So, yep, yeah. I know nothing now, but I knew everything. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I was the same way. So I was vice president of the world until I stepped down from that position. That's when I started making progress in life. However, so at 19, when I first found out about this cool real estate thing, the first, people that I asked how to get started in real estate is people who don't do real estate. So makes sense. Yeah. So I went to my father and asked him how do I get started in real estate.

And he said, hey, look, I'll send you to my friend who repairs credit. And then you can get started in real estate. He'll help you buy a house. Because at the time, they were doing like the no dock loans. Yeah. Okay. Right. So what happened was I was in college and I was.

working. And in the meantime, I was just fixing up my credit because that's what I thought that you had to do. So I was in undergrad and I was about 24 at the time and I watched the flip-the-house shows. And I was studying those. Okay. So that was my course. Nice. Right. I took the same course. I'm a little worried about what happens next. Okay. So studying to flip those house shows and the AG TV and studying all those shows. I knew all the characters names by heart first and last name. Well, that makes you qualified to buy real estate, by the way. Correct. That's what I thought. So me and my friend, we came up with this idea and we said, look, man, let's go flip a house. All we got to do is buy the house, get out some contractors,

and, you know, we can make a whole bunch of money. Oh, yeah. Right. So, and just for everyone listening, buying a house after watching flip that house is similar to performing open heart surgery after watching ER. So it's the same thing. So I just want to warn everybody before I finish your story. So we did everything wrong in the book. Fortunately, fortunately, we were able to sell that house for a $7,000 loss apiece. So we lost 14 grand, 7,000 apiece.

laws that we were able to sell that house fortunately. We got lucky because we bought the house in 07 and we sold in the 08 and then that's when I have my degree. So that's when I just moved down to Charlotte, North Carolina. Okay. Okay. So your first deal, you ended up losing money on you. You said about $7,000 apiece between you and your partners.

You lost $14, $15,000 somewhere in there. Yes. Okay. That sucks. But that is, I mean, that's an expensive education. But, you know, some people go and spend $20 or $30,000 or $50,000 or $100,000 on, you know, some boot camp or training course to try to make that. So, you know, you did what you did. Maybe you can talk about that. What did you learn from it? What did you do wrong? You said

you did every mistake in the book. What did you do wrong? And tell us really quick as you do that. Like, tell us the numbers on the house, if you don't mind, you know, purchase, you know, sell, you name it. Okay. All right. So now I don't remember the exact numbers. All I remember is the loss about it. But I don't remember the exact numbers because we purchase this. no seven, so this is about eight years ago. Yeah. So I couldn't tell you the exact numbers. However, I know that we spent, I think we bought the house for $160,000, but spent

$30,000 into it. And we paid the mortgage for, we had the house for about eight, nine months. So we paid the mortgage for that long and we end up selling it for $210 to $2.15 or something around there. And then, of course, the realtor convinced us. to give him a bonus on top of his 3% commission. On top of his 3% commission? Yes, the reason why he said we should put the bonus in there

because the house wasn't selling. And being that the house was a seller, you might have to offer more a sentence to get the house sold. So you should pay the realtor more money because they can't sell the house. Am I? Correct. Now, you're not correct.

And when we added, when we did the bonus, this, mysteriously, he popped up with a buyer the next few days. Oh, fascinating. Fascinating. That's the story. All right. All right. So that, well, that is a technique that I've used in the past, but I give it to the, you know, the agent who brings the buyer, right? So I've done that a few times and I don't know if it actually has worked or not, you know, because it's hard to tell. It's not like you're doing. But I've done that where I've offered seven or eight percent, you know, commission total. But I offer my agent only the three. He's normally gets an offer four or five to the, you know, the other agent. And then,

the one time I did that, my agent brought a buyer and got the whole entire thing also. But anyway, okay, so you did that. You paid all the money. He brought a buyer. What else did you mess up? Yeah. All right. So basically, what I did, instead of going to the house and finding, going to get on the ground

and finding a good deal myself, I went through a realtor. And I later learned from Robert Kiyosaki not to trust salespeople or only listen to rich people. So the realtor told me that this was a great deal. And at the time, being that I knew everything, I thought the only way was to buy a house was to, you know, get a bank loan and, you know, go through a realtor. So we paid too much for the house. So you listened wholeheartedly. I mean, let me back it up. At this point, you didn't know how to evaluate a deal.

You were kind of going on trust that the real estate agent knew how to evaluate the deal and was going to put you in a good deal. That's correct. Isn't that what happened on TV? A, that's what happens on TV. And B, that's what a lot of amateur real estate investors do. And, you know, let me take this chance to kind of, you know, say what I need to say here about this, which is... I hear a rant coming. No, it's not.

But inherently, real estate agents, you know, their job is to help you be successful. And, you know, we love agents. Agents are great. You know, I've got an agent who's helping me buy a house right now. You know, he's amazing. The guy knows everything backwards and forward. He's brilliant. Those are the guys you need to work with.

The guys who, you know, if you're an investor or if you're thinking about becoming an investor, you want to make sure that the real estate agent you work with knows real estate investing. Just going to some old investor out of nowhere is not going to work for you. So we actually put together this thing, this agent's guide to real estate working with real estate investors. and it's amazing. If you're a real estate agent and you want to check out this guide, it's biggerpockets.com slash agent guide,

A-G-E-N-T-G-U-I-D-E, and it literally, it spells out the basics of real estate investing. It spells out what investors are looking for, the psychology, things like that. And it's extremely helpful to anyone who's a real estate agent. But that should be up on Amazon by this point, too. We're recording this interview a little bit a few weeks ahead of time,

and that's on the slate to be up on Amazon in the Kindle store. So look there too. Anyway, so that's my run. Not every agent is bad, but not all agents are educated enough to be an advocate for you and to have your best interest because they understand, fully understand investing. And our goal is to try and help that a little more. So sorry to catch you off, but I thought it was kind of important for the listeners to kind of hear that. Yeah.

I think people will lie way too much on their agent. I mean, I had an agent. I've said this before on the show, but I had an agent one time telling me, He was giving me a hard time because I was offering too low on properties. He said I was responsible for the eroding economy. Oh, nice. I should offer more because that would help the economy turn around. And so, like, yeah, most agents don't know what they're doing when it comes to real estate.

And bad agents get people in trouble. Like, I mean, poor Nosser, man. I mean, this guy is in a property that, you know, granted, you didn't know how to evaluate a rehab. You didn't know how to estimate the cost. You didn't know how to do anything. So you had no place doing what you were doing in the first, right? but that agent was part and parcel to your failure. You know, they played a role in you being a failure because they did not, you know,

they weren't there to help you. Yeah, and I agree with you, Josh, but I learned to take ownership and responsibility. It was my fault. It was all my fault. You know, I knew everything and I was too good to read a book to learn about real estate investing because Flip That House taught me everything. Yeah, yeah. No, that makes sense.

That makes sense. Give any other tips for people who are in that stage of their life? Like when you were young and you thought you knew everything, you know, maybe in their early 20s and they want to get into real estate. You know, it's a pretty good chunk of our audience or the younger people. What kind of tips do you give them in, you know, to go forward? Slow down. Just slow down, learn and focus on that one thing that you want.

Slow down, learn and focus on that one thing that you want. A lot of people probably, a lot of people come on bigger pockets. A lot of people approach me. They want to learn about wholesale. Well, just focus on wholesaler. Don't focus on short sales. Don't focus on being a realtor. Don't focus on rehab.

Just focus on wholesaler. And just be able to learn about that and ask questions and find those successful investors in your market. And hang out on bigger pockets of your spare time. So it's the things like that that usually separates, you know, the people who actually get things done for people who don't. Love it. And another thing that I did wrong that I wanted to talk. about is always pay attention to the comps like the clothes sales not with first sale but the clothes sales that first deal I totally ignored the the clothes sell and my partner had a

aunt that's a realtor so she told us well you um she's like well look I can probably be selling for about 225 because this comps were at 220 closed now I had a friend who just got his license notice I said friend so my friend walked in and said man

I can get you $280,000 man this is beautiful so he said oh this is going to be an easy sell you know what I got somebody a $3.50 Whatever, whatever you want to hear. I'll tell it to you.

Right. So he did that whole thing. And now at 31, I know not to use that word friend so loosely. So, of course, he did not perform. Right. And we didn't, we didn't sell the house, obviously. And we went with a, after him, we went. with another agency called Foxton,

which is located in New Jersey. And they actually went under at that time because they were paying their realtors of salary. They were giving them little green mini cars, the mini-couper cars that had Foxen all over. It was a New Jersey-based company. I think it was in a few other states, but they went out of business.

So Foxton end up selling their listings to Central 21 before they went under because they had all these agents on salaries, paying for gas, paying car notes and all these other things. And real estate just wasn't selling at that time. So with that being said, we got with this other agent and we end up selling the property less than what my friend told me, the what my friend's aunt said that he can get for it. And but we did start the listing price at that, but we ended up getting less.

But we got rid of it and now it's happy. Right on. All right, man. So lots of lessons, lots of lessons learned. don't trust friends, don't trust your aunt's judgment. No offense to your aunt who's listening. It's nice to meet you. I apologize in advance.

So you get through this deal. You're down for 7K. Probably, you know, you're a young kid at the time. I'm sure that was a hit. So how did you get back into it? I mean, you know, a lot of people would say, oh, man, you know what? I'm a big fat loser. I can't do this.

I'm out. What got you to get back in and then what did you end up doing next? Well, at that time, I was too stupid to quit. Nice. So, yeah. That's the title of this show right here. That is the title of the show. Awesome.

So, yeah, I was too stupid to quit. So I moved down to Charlotte in 2008. So I said to myself, well, the market is bad. At least that's what the news is saying. So this is not a fix and flip market. This is more of a buying home market. So let me go buy some rentals. So 2008, I bought a rental, the traditional way, still using those realtors and things like that.

Bought one in 2008, bought one in 2009. I tried to buy a third one in 2009, but my debt to income ratio was too high. So I was stuck. Like, oh, man, my real estate invest in career is over with two houses. What am I going to do now? So. Can I jump in it? I'm going to explain that real quick.

For those people who don't know what debt to income is, real quick, quickly. So basically, banks have like this requirement of, you know, they'll allow you, let's say, 40% debt to income, which means that of your total income, the total amount of debt you have can't go past that percentage. It might be 30, 35, 40. Back then it was like 50. And then they have like a, you know, a higher debt to income. What's it called? Anyway, there's like an upper and lower debt to income. One includes the mortgage and one doesn't. But anyway, so it's a number that basically the more debt you get, the more rental properties you get, the harder it is to get more rental properties. It's a problem every investor eventually faces when you're trying to buy

conventional mortgage, like real estate through conventional mortgages. Because every mortgage adds to your debt. And, you know, pretty soon that creeps up. You might be at 30, then 35, then 40, then 45, 50. And I mean, today, I can't get a conventional loan from a bank no matter what I want to do, because my debt to income is way too high. And so that's why people eventually go into other avenues or more creative finance. So anyway, back to you. Hey, Nassar, really quick. And I want to get back to you, but there's an important question that comes up. You're talking about buying these rental properties. You told me you lost $7,000 on this property.

Your kid, were you working? How are you getting money to actually pick up these rental properties? What were you doing? Okay. So in 2008, I moved down to Charlotte and got to banking. And for those who don't know, Charlotte is the number two biggest banking city behind New York City. So I got into banking, but I was only, I started off like 10 and 12 bucks. What it was, I had some money saved up before going to Charlotte.

I had some money saved up previously due to my mother passed at a young age. And I had money saved up from that. It wasn't a lot. I pretty much made horrible decisions and it got really, really, really, really low. Whereas I didn't know what I was going to do at one point because when you have, when you're making $12 an hour or so in the call center, you got two vacant properties and you got to get them fixed. So it's like, oh my God, what am I do?

So, I mean, things got tight. Yeah, got tight. Perfect. Thank you. Thanks. I mean, that's helpful. It gives people context like, hey, this guy magically bought these properties. Maybe he got no.

What did he do? How do you pick up these rentals? So, no, that explains it. So you're talking about picking up these rental properties and then you were kind of progressing. Progressing. And then the bank punched me in the face. Oh. Hey, they like doing that.

Right. So he liked doing that. And I know Brandon just explained debt to income and let me just say this. They're not paying me to say this. But Brandon Turner's book, investing with no money down, explains everything. I'm actually listening to it on audible.com right now. So it explains everything. So pick that up if you're new. It really explains that. I'm not getting paid to say that. Thank you. Awesome. Thanks, man. Yeah, I appreciate that. So with that being said, being that I got punched in the face by the bank, I was lost. I hated my life at the time because I was only making like 12, 50, and I was in the call center. And it was, I don't know if you guys ever worked in the call center, but the call center was just horrible. Yeah, I had a lot of friends that did it and they said it was the worst job ever. Correct. Okay.

So, all right, yeah. So that pretty much explains it and thumbs it up. So me being young and knowing everything, I went in there and I used to display my first with basically saying, hey, look, I need to make 40,000 dollars because I have this college degree and the world owes me this. I need to apply for supervisor position. I need to be in another department. I need to move up in this company. You know, damn it, my name is Nasser. You guys got to pay me. Have some humble pie, man.

Right. So I was a guy who definitely wasn't going anywhere in that calls. So with that, and this was like the, the Wachovia headquarters. Okay. All right? So this was the headquarters. So there was a lot of room for growth. Just I didn't get, I didn't get any of it. And well, Fargo brought him out.

And one day I set up a meeting with the site director. And by me, set up this meeting with the site director. And I tell people not to do this now. You never tell your job, you're an entrepreneur. Never do that. So I told my job I was an entrepreneur because I like to learn things the art way. So he recommended a book called Rich Dad Poor Dad. He said, man, you should read that book.

And I, because I told him what I was doing. And I told him my goals. I didn't tell him my corporate goals. I told him my actual real estate goals, which was pretty stupid. But he recommended this book called Rich Dad, Poor Dad. And that book changed my life. And this is a thing that stuck out to me in that book. It said, just because you own.

own four houses does not make you a real estate expert. You have to learn about real estate before investing in real estate. Just because you own some stocks does not make you a stock expert. You have to learn about stocks before investing the stocks. So I had to put the book down and realize I missed the step. And I never actually learned about real estate. Because I knew everything. By the way, yes. That's why Bigger Pockets exists. I, too, was too stupid to quit. Too stupid to know I was too stupid. And, you know, I went and bought property without doing any of the work.

I was like, I'm a smart guy. I can figure this out. And that's why Bigger Pockets exists today is because I realize, holy crap, I am so wrong. I am so stupid. And I need help. And now we're helping, you know, millions of people. So it's a beautiful thing. Yes, and I joined the RIA after that, and I found out about the thing called wholesaling, that you can actually wholesale houses what I was told without money or credit,

and I was like, wow, this is awesome. And the way I found out, because one of the first meetings, I stood up in the room and told them, hey, look, I want to sell my houses that I own. I can't buy any more houses. The bank said that my debt to income is too high, and I need help. so if anybody want to buy these houses because I want to buy more, and somebody said, that's only a problem if you want to be a problem. You know, none of us can qualify for a loan.

So, and then he took me to the, he took me to the corner after the meeting and told me, talked me about the thing called wholesaling and creative real estate, and I was hooked at that point. Nice. That's great. Okay, so fast forward from then to today, I'm guessing you've done a whole bunch of deals. How many deals have you done thus far?

Somewhere between probably close to 100, not quite 100 since 2010. That's awesome. And what were those? Are they all wholesaling? Majority wholesaling and some rehabbing and I'm a landlord now too as well. A better landlord. What does better landlord mean? I mean, besides the fact that you didn't know what you were doing, what makes you better

landlord than you were? I evaluate the deal to make sure that it makes sense on the front end before I buy it. And I follow a method that the way I buy my deals are cash, my rentals. I picked up two last year. My goal was to pick up for this year. And I'm doing a lot of the bulk of my business, wholesaling, and rehab it. So the way I buy my deals are cash, owner financing, the subject too. Okay.

Okay. Well, owner financing and the subject too, I would only take it if the rent is 200 at minimum 200% of the mortgage payment. So if that rent is, if that mortgage payment or owner financing is $350 with tax and insurance, that property needs to rent out a minimum of $700 a month for me,

for me to take that on. Okay. When I bought my first rental, I thought collecting rent would be the hard part. Nope. The admin crushed me. Every night was receipts, tax forms, and checking who was late on rent.

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Plus, you get to share your place with someone traveling to your area while you're off making memories somewhere else. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. So your strategy here is work a job. I'm assuming at some point you quit your job and you're... No, I got fired. You got fired for being an entrepreneur.

No, I got fired because I couldn't do the job and I was real stupid. Oh, okay. When was that? When was that? September 2012, they fired. me. Okay. And was that the last time you had a job? I mean, did you go full time after that? That's correct. I had a job. And it wasn't one of those surprise fires. I knew I was going to get fired. I couldn't do the job. And they gave me a lot of choices. And I mean, a lot of chances.

And they finally just, you know, cut the public string and realize like, hey, let's get this guy out of here. The way it happened, I told him I need some time off because my grandfather died. And I had to go two and a half hours away for Lumberton. I guess they said, hey, how about just not come back? So they called me the room and they fired me. But I knew it was going to happen eventually because I really couldn't do the job. But I did have like a sexy job title. It was my job title was policy review analyst. So yeah, I got a lot of women because of that.

What does that do? Nobody knows. You didn't even know, which is why you got fired. Right. So I didn't even know what we did. That's why I got fired. So with that, with that being said, I got fired. got fired in September 2012.

Before I got fired, I turned down two job offers because a friend of mine, I was talking on and she said, look, Nasser, you're only going to be 29 once. You can always go back and get another job. And that pretty much confirmed it. I say, yep, I'm going to sit here and let these people fire me and I'm going to go full time in real estate. And that's what I did. So it sounds to me, I mean, you've got a plan, right?

Yes. Your overarching plan, and correct me if I'm wrong, is this. I'm going to wholesale. I'm going to flip property. So I'm going to be an active real estate investor who's working a new job, which is flipping and wholesaling. And I'm going to take the funds from that, whatever I don't need to kind of live and survive. And I'm going to plow that into rental properties. Is that kind of a fair assessment of what you're trying to do here?

That's a fair assessment what I'm trying to do here now. But it didn't start like that. Well, sure. Right. Okay. And so do you see that kind of looking at the big picture, right? You said you're 31? Yes.

All right. So, I mean, you know, if you do that for the next X number of years, you'll have a portfolio of a sizable portfolio probably bringing in enough of money where you're not necessarily needing to do the work part, the wholesaling and rehabbing and potentially shift gears at that point. Is that kind of what you're thinking long term? That's correct. And hopefully within the next three years, I get in a position that I don't have to work as hard to find a deal because when you're wholesaling rehab and you live deal to deal, especially just starting out.

I was, you know, I was wholesaling. I average on three deals a month, you know, I'm blessed. I'm the go-to guy here in Charlotte. So a lot of people bring me deals. And so with that being said, I average about three deals a month. but after like last month, I probably made about $22,000 last month in January. Wow. However, this month I haven't made no money.

I don't have any, I just got dealing the contract yesterday that someone brung me in. I got to get that sold so I can create a check this month. And that $22,000, yeah, it sounds good, but I got hard money payments too. Yeah. No, sir. I love that you're talking about this. I love how open you are about it because I think a lot of new investors, are like, hey, you know, I could do this.

I did a deal. I'm going to quit my job and I'm going to go ahead and become a wholesaler or rehab or whatever it is. And you said it perfectly. This is a month-to-month thing. This is a deal-to-deal thing. I've talked to guys who've been doing this for a long time, and they say the same damn thing.

It's a deal-to-deal thing. It's a job. And, you know, if for some reason like this month, you couldn't get any good deals, you don't get food on the plate potentially if you don't have money back. up. So there is a lot of risk in just saying, you know what, I'm going to quit my job and I'm going to go in wholesale full time or I'm going to flip houses full time unless you have, you know, a good amount of money kind of sitting in the bank to kind of protect you. That's correct. That's correct. I mean, wholesale is rough and you have to be good at money management because you don't know when your next deal is coming. Of course, we like to think that we're going to get the next deal, the next deal. next week or the next month, but sometimes it doesn't happen like that. But you knew when you were 24, 26, 19, that that money was coming, right?

I mean, it was coming, period. You didn't even have to think about it. So I want to shift gears, not even shift gears, I just want to like expand on this topic of quitting your job a little bit. Because there's a lot of people listen to the show who have terrible, crappy dead-end jobs that they don't like. And a couple weeks back, I did a webinar on how to quit your job here on bigger pockets. And, you know, it was a lot of.

it was a popular webinar, very popular, probably the most popular I've done, just because it was on that topic of the thing people hate their jobs and want to quit. So maybe you can kind of shed some light on that, on the idea of like, when should somebody consider quitting their job? And do you think wholesaling is the best path to do that? All right. So wholesale is not a good fit for everybody. We have to evaluate your skills and personality to make sure that wholesale sellers work worked for you because I know a few successful investors that, you know, accumulated a lot of rental property because that was their strong point or they had access to money or they were good at, you know, negotiating great terms and they would just build up this

portfolio until it was big enough to they left their job the right way. That was my plan, but of course, God plans was different. So it didn't happen like that. So with that being said, wholesale is not right for everybody. I know some people who quit. their job from rehab. They just start rehabbing. You know, it just depends on your situation. Because what it takes to be a successful wholesaler, everybody doesn't have those skills and everybody's not willing to do what it takes. And what are those skills? And what do you need to do to be good at wholesaling? Sales negotiating the marketing. And when I say, let's tap on that marketing. Yeah. You have to keep having marketing out consistently. I sent out 1,800 postcards in January

to close a deal for February, and I have got no deals from that yet. So, right. So that happens. Thank you for saying that. Thank you for saying. Again, something that we haven't talked about. Like, you have to have a funnel going from last month, the next month.

Like a lot of people think, hey, I'm going to market until I get that deal. Then I'm going to stop marketing. And wait, then things are going to dry up for you. You can't stop marketing. You always have to be marketing if you're going to be a successful. successful wholesaler. Isn't that right? Always. Always. That's what I was going to say next. I can't go in the corner and put my head down in the corner because what happens if I do that? Then I get the ostrac syndrome and my butt is left in the air. So if people take advantage of it. So you don't,

you don't want to do that. You have to keep it going. So I have to get another 2000 postcards out and maybe I might get some in February, but just to get my March pipeline starting to get ready. And sometimes I might have home run deals and then the seller just disappears like the face of earth. I can't get them no more. That happens. So wholesaleing is not right for everybody. I think that you need to study each niche to make sure that this is something you want to do and this is something you're willing to strive and struggle for to happen.

I wholeheartedly agree. I say that all the time, right? When you're trying to get into real estate, obviously we talked about earlier focus, right? The one thing, focus on the one thing you want. However, before you can focus, you have to know what you're going to get into to be able to focus on. And so for that reason, people who haven't read it yet, check out the biggerpockets.com slash UBG. that's the ultimate beginner's guide to real estate investing.

It's just a guide we put together for that very reason is you need to look at the entire picture, at least from a 10,000 foot, you know, view and then decide what you want to get to do and then focus and then focus more and then focus more. And I'm huge on that one. So, okay, so we talked about keeping your pipeline filled. love that. Maybe we can expand on that a little bit. You mentioned direct mail. You mentioned postcards. Maybe you can kind of share your strategy. What are you doing with direct mail? Direct mail, basically, I'm just sending out postcards to Ashti owner list. I go after code

enforcement. I go after delinquent tax, just going after different lists and I alternate it up. So with that being said, majority of my deals come from JV. Like I do like three joint venture, for those who's not familiar with the term, JV. I do probably three deals a month on average, and maybe like one or two of those deals, somebody else might bring me. That's cool. That's cool.

I mean, how does that even work as a wholesaler? Like, both from the perspective of you as the wholesaler and the guy you're JVing with, I mean, if I'm a newbie wholesaler, how do I find you? How do I work with you? And then at the same time, for you, how do you find me?

And how do you guys split the deal? Fill that in. All right. So let me give you a deal that was done. This is a slam dunk deal. So being that this is a slam dunk deal, these don't happen all the time.

So someone in another city, he's in New York, he does marketing here in Charlotte. And once he gets a deal in the contract, he brings me the deal so I can find a buyer. So we found this deal for $80,000 and end up selling it for $95,000

in his hot pocket in his neighborhood. So we split it 7,500 a piece. And the way we do it with this particular individual, he puts both our names on the contract. So it would be my entity and his entity on the contract. And we both sign off on the assignment and everything. And then the attorneys have two checks for us. We started doing it like that because when we would send them the joint venture agreement, some attorneys would say, oh, no, we were only paying out to who's on the contract and the assignment.

We're not paying out who's on the joint venture. So to eliminate that and the attorney can send two separate wires or I pick up a check and he'll get a wire. That's basically how it works. And a lot of people in my market, they'll see me at the rear, get in touch with me on Facebook or my blog or YouTube. And they'll say, hey, I got this deal working. You want to work with me on it? I say, yeah, sure. Let's do it.

Nice. And I think that's such a smart way for newbie wholesalers to get started. because there's a lot of skills like you said you have to be good at. Was it sales marketing and what was it? Yeah, sales marketing negotiation. Those are like skills that you have to develop over time. So if you don't have them when you get started, which I can guarantee most people don't have them when they're getting started, why not work with somebody who does? I think that's just fantastic advice. And that's how I got started. I work with a season investor. A woman here named Lori. Great, great individual taught me a lot about the business. And I worked with her when I was at when I was at work,

She would go look at the properties. She will talk to the buyers. She would find the buyers. And that's how I got started. Love it. That's great. It's just like that thing I would say, right? It's better to have 50% of a great deal than 100% of no deal, right?

Like partner up with somebody. Who cares if you're giving them half the profit? Who cares if you're giving them 90% of the profit if you're learning and growing and you can get more next time. So yeah, I love partnerships. Love it. What's interesting, you know, I've talked to a couple people. And it's always funny because it often happens that at some point somebody gets greedy a little bit.

You know, like, hey, you guys have done a bunch of deals. And all of a sudden, somebody's like, you know, I'm going to do this all on my own. I don't need you anymore. And it's always fun when you hear that story. And the guy who kind of got greedy oftentimes ends up failing on their own because it turns out that they actually needed the other person because their skill set was one. And the other person brought this different skill set altogether. So it's kind of cool that partnerships tend to work to complement skill sets as well. Hey, guys, really quick, this is show one.

16 of the Bigger Pockets podcast. Definitely be sure to check out the show notes at biggerpockets.com slash show 116. I've got a quick question. I want to take you back a second. You'd mention you market to code enforcement and delinquent tax amongst absentee landlords as well. What is code enforcement? How does that work?

Code enforcement leads and delinquent tax leads those as well. Well, what code enforcement leads, the way that works is in my particular city, and it varies city by city, in my city, it's online. So the people who have city violations and those violations could consist of the grass is too high. A tenant reported them because they're not maintaining the property well. It could be somebody, a neighbor reported them because they had a hole in the roof and it's messing up the neighborhood. So things like that. And what happens, the city of Charlotte puts those people, they send them a letter to correct them. and they put them on this particular website stating that they have an open code case.

So I send them, I market to those people. Fascinating. I wonder if my area has that. I've never looked and, yeah, I'm going to have to look into that. So that's very cool. Which, of course, I mean, it makes sense because those people are probably, there's a good chance they're going to be motivated to sell because they don't have the money to fix the place up or they just don't care or they're out of the area and they're just forgetting about it and whatever.

So you can come and offer them, hey, can I solve your problem for you? and buy this property from you and you can do cool stuff. So I love it. That's great. And what about the delinquent tax? Delinquent tax is the people who don't pay their taxes. So they might be in the buying. They might inherit some property and they have another situation or they probably just

don't care. They're just not paying their property. However, these people, they have, you have a higher chance of motivation because something's wrong there that they're not paying their taxes. and the city does a lot of the marketing for you because they create a sense of urgency because the city is always throwing it to foreclose on them. The city is trying them to find them and things like that. So the city does, creates the urgency for you.

So when you market them and they actually call you and you buy the house, they're happy. You just relieved a lot of stress from them. Yeah, I love it. Hey, do you do your post? I mean, you mentioned postcards. Are you doing letters and postcards? and then how do you do them? Do you print them yourself or you hire a company to print them for you? I outsource now because this year I don't like to do anything under like 2,000 pieces.

The reason why I did 1800 because the list was only had 1800 names, but I don't like to do anything under 2,000 pieces a month to me worth my time. However, I just outsource it to click number two mail.com, click 2mail.com. Okay. Yep, I've heard of, I never used them, but I've heard people that use them and have good success there. Cool. Okay, well, shifting gears before we head over to the fire round, you know, one thing that I talk a lot about here on the podcast, on the webinars, on the forums, blog, whatever, is becoming a person of action, somebody who just gets out there and takes action and does it. And this is a major problem with wholesalers, want to be wholesalers and want to be flippers, right? They're very excited about it. They love the idea of getting into the wholesaling. And then they never take action. They never actually do it. But you've kind of always struck me as a person who is like the opposite of that. You always take action. You seem to be. be an action taker. So I guess my question is, do you have any tips on people who are struggling with that, struggling with taking action and getting out there and actually doing something with their life? All right. I mean, yeah. And I thank you for the compliments. But yeah, and Les Brown says sometimes

you have to jump off the roof and get wings on the way down. And that's literally just how you have to do it. You're going to learn more doing it than read in the book. You're going to learn more doing it, then messaging Josh and Brandon on Bigger Pockets asking them how to find a motivated seller. I don't know about that. No, I agree a thousand percent. Don't blow up my PM, please, please, please. But you just have to take action. And I gained a lot of respect from like lenders who have lend me money because the actual

hard money lenders, they don't, the real guys who lend their own money, they only lend to select few people. And if you're not in that select pool, they'll just tell you, oh, I ran out of money. I don't have any funds because they don't know you. And I'm starting to get into that club. And the reason a few of them said, they like to deal with me because they said, hey, look, man, you actually get out there and do it. You know, there's been people coming here 10 plus years to the RIA and other organizations, 10 plus years. And they're still asking, how do you find the motivated seller when we sat in the same seminar five years ago. Yep, yep.

And they're still asking the same as that question, but you're out there just doing it. So, you know, people respect action takers because it's not allowed of them. So my advice to people just get out there and just do it. Just like Nike said, just do it. You're going to mess up. You're going to make mistakes. I still make mistakes. Shit or get off the pot.

There you go. Straight like that. I mean, that's it. At some point, you know, you can keep talking. about making something happen. But, you know, yeah, it's okay for a little bit of time to talk and talk and talk. And that's fine. But, you know, at a certain point, hey, you're going to lose respect amongst your peers. You're going to lose respect amongst your colleagues. And like you said, the Ria, like, if you're that guy who keeps going to the Ria and keeps saying, hey, I'm going to do it

one day, guys, I'm going to do it one day. And all the other people, the people who have cash, who are looking for somebody to give their money to, the hard money lenders, people who want to partner with somebody and they see that you're the guy that just keeps talking and hoping and crossing your fingers that's going to happen or finally, you know, getting the nerve to do it. You know, even once you get there, they're going to say, yeah, but man, you are so nervous about doing that. I mean, it's going to take us forever to close on whatever it takes us to close on. I don't trust that you can deliver because you're demonstrating to me that you don't

have the nerve to step it up. Yep. And so that's so key. And that's, you know, you use the name the Duru, right? And that's what it is, man. You'll do it, do it, do it. That's beautiful. Yes.

And, Josh, let me just say something. Please, I try to be, I try to be brief. Stop speaking. So back in 2012, back in 2012, I was doing well, I'm wholesaling. I keep my monthly expenses extremely low. So it was doing well wholesale And so I had a nice amount saved And with that being said

I came across a slam dunk deal And I wanted to rehab Rehab it So I called up three people And three people And say hey look You want to partner with me And two of them

Turned me down And one said yes And I didn't bring any money to the table All I had to do is bring the deal And oh yeah I paid $500 in earnest money and paid to record the contract downtown because I had to go through the probate process. But he said, man, the reason why we wanted to partner with you because you're out there getting it done and you're an action taker. And we're watching you. We know that

wholesale is not easy. And you're like one of the only full-time wholesalers in the city that actually wholesale full-time. So we want to help you transition into rehab it. And we end up making $91,000 on that deal. That's great. Wow. That's beautiful. You said something fascinating there. You know, for everybody who's listening to the show, there's a whole hell of a lot of people that are trying to take your money away from you and sell you on the dream of wholesaling full-time. Hey, the guru this guy, the guru that guy, they're going to sell you on the dream of being a full-time wholesaling. Obviously, he's exaggerating a little, you know, but I'm sure there's more than you wholesaling full-time in your city.

Yeah, only a few. But there's only a few, and I guarantee you that's true regardless of what city you're in. This is not an wholesaling is not an easy thing to do. And not a lot of people can do it in a manner by which they become a full-time wholesaler. I mean, I've been talking to investors for 10 years through bigger pockets. I know very, very few full-time wholesalers of all those people. and there's a reason for it. It's not easy. So thanks for sharing that story. Love it. All right. Moving on to the... It's time for the fire round.

All right. First question of the fire round. What type of contract do you use when you wholesale properties? Is it like an assignment or double close? I like to do an assignment. So I do a contract with the homeowner and assignment with my buyer. people used to say I used to make extravagant feeds somebody had problems with the feed what I'm making let's not do business let's just go our way so I like to do assignments I only use I only do double clothes if the buyer requested because of his lender might say look I'm not paying assignment fees you know and I'll do a double close okay okay good enough got right what are your best suggestions on how to find distressed properties or motivated sellers your budget and if you can spare um a hundred to two hundred dollars a month i would say go after direct mail direct mail because it's going to give you the most bang for your buck because at 42 cent or 40 cent a postcard you can tap a lot a lot more people you know and potentially getting the deal love it uh here's a kind of a cool question should i save my money to first get out of debt or save to get my first deal?

That's definitely a good question. That is a great question. My personal recommendation to get a deal. Okay, cool. And I say that because depending on your area, depending on your chance, I mean, that deal sometimes can be $2,000 and I've seen some people do as high as $40,000 on their first deal. So it varies.

Or you've seen people lose $7,000 on their first flipping deal. Correct. there you go. I'm just saying there, you know, there's a chance of lose the money too, right? I mean, let's be real. And that's, you know, that's, it's important. And Brandon harps on that a lot is, you know, odds of you making money on your first deal aren't that great. Yeah.

But you can improve that by doing the education part and learning. And that's why I say, partner. You can improve it dramatically by working with someone who has a success rate already. Yep. Yep. All right. Last question for the fire round, Nosser. What is the single best piece of advice you would give to a newbie?

Focus. Follow one course until successful. It sounds so simple. But if you follow that, you will have a better real estate investing career and longer than the next guy if you focus it. I didn't start off when I learned about career of real estate doing wholesaling, rehabbing, and landlord at all the same time. I did wholesaling, then transition into it. to rehabbing, then got some money and started picking up rentals, but I had to focus on one to get to the next.

Makes sense. I couldn't study all three at the same time. Yep. Because people just get confused and overwhelmed and then they never do anything and spend a rare time planning. So great. You know, the non-doos. The non-duroos, yeah.

All right, time for the world famous. Famous Four. All right, famous four. These questions we ask every single solitary show, all 114 before this. I think we've asked this question. What is your favorite real estate related book? And why? I'm sorry, man.

I know you guys heard this not many times, man. That's okay. You talked about it already, man. Yeah, rich dad poured that, man. It changed my life. Fabulous. Me too. Fabulous.

Yes, I knew that was coming. All right. How about business book? All right. Business book is more of a personal development book, but it changed my life. It made me take ownership and personal responsibility for my life. life is called You Can Make It Happen by Stedman Graham. Never read it.

That's Oprah's Stebben. That's correct. Yes. All right. Cool. I did not know that. How would you know that, Josh? I don't know.

How do you know these things? I know these things. I'm wiser than my years. My years are getting up there. Yeah, they are. Yes. Wisdom comes with age, young man. All right.

All right. Nasser, what about hobbies? What do you do for fun? As far as doing for fun, I don't really have fun too much. I don't have time for fun. Yeah, and I kind of want to change that. So you can basically say, like, for fun, I really enjoy reading now. So reading and learning more about business, I do vacation.

So I do do that. And I am a foodie, so I love to eat. Nice. Yes, I do food for fun as well. Love it. Yeah. Love it. Awesome.

All right. My final question of the day. What do you believe sets apart successful real estate investors from those who give up or fail? The process? I say the process because as someone who is, and I got this from episode 100 when you interviewed John and that was a great, a great podcast. That was probably the best of all those shows. Easily, easily the best guest that you guys have had in the bigger pockets podcast.

I don't know about that. So with that being said, one thing that Josh said, I don't know that he said, I don't think he knows that he said, but it took. I don't know what I'm saying, man. All right. So we go to bigger pockets and we look at bigger pockets where it is today. We don't think about 10 years prior when Josh was struggling to run that site. We don't look at that.

You know, we don't look about, we don't look at those things. But what we want to do, we just want to come on a job site and say, hey, look, come to my side. Your side, bigger pockets. That's what we want to do. You know, we want instant results. Yep. So the people who are ready for the process and ready to deal with the process, those are the people who are going to succeed. Not the people who want to quit their job in 30 days.

Yeah. Not to people who want to make life changing money in 90 days. It just doesn't happen like that. So let's say like the average person comes to me, let's say they're 27 years old and they've been making bad choices for the last five years. So you didn't get in that situation overnight. But yet you want real estate to magically change your situation in 60 days because you really, really need some money. Those are the people who normally don't succeed in the people who are ready for the price. process and what's going to happen and raise it to sacrifice and struggle to get what they want.

Those are people going to succeed. Yeah. And, you know, unfortunately, and I hate this stat, and we try and work on this. And it's a fake stat, but it's still a stat, right? Like 90% of newbies fail, right? Yeah, correct. And whatever it is, what the real number, who the hell knows? But who cares?

I heard that like 65% of stats are made up. Here's the point. The point is, like, odds are that those people are looking for a quickout. We know when they come to bigger pockets that they're probably going to fail. We know that. And we try our best to see, hey, how can we build this platform? How can we improve what we do to lessen the odds of somebody failing if they come to us? And that's what we try to do.

But at the end of the day, you know, you have to be there mentally. If you're saying, I'm going to do this in 30 days, you're going to fail. I mean, odds are you're going to fail. you really need to take a longer approach. That said, you're also, by the way, one of my favorite guests because I've never had something I've ever said quoted back to me in a positive light. So just for that, I love you, man. Thanks, man.

I love bigger pockets, man. Thank you, man. That's great. So, hey, listen, before we let you go, where can people find out more about you? Where can they obviously, they can find you on bigger pockets? You got a website, you got a YouTube channel, talk about that stuff. Yes. You can go to my blog at real estate, duru.com.

as Duru D-O-R-U, because I actually do this business, you can actually go to YouTube.com slash real estate duro. Find me on Facebook and Twitter under real estate duro and bigger pockets under Nasa L. Arabi. Fabulous. Hey, man. Listen, keep doing it. Keep doing it.

Thank you so much for the time. Thanks for being a part of our community. And keep being successful. You know, it's nice to see you all grown up, you know, doing things, not so stupidly anymore. It's beautiful. Yeah, feels good too.

Yeah, it does. Yeah, it does. All right, Nasser. Thanks so much, man. Thanks for having me on. All right, thank you. All right, guys, big, big thanks to Nasser El-Rabi

for coming on the show. Lots of really cool stuff. It's awesome to hear his story. Guys, just passionate and really enthusiastic. And, you know, it was a great interview. It was a great interview. That guy, I like him a lot because, I mean, like his whole name,

the doo-ru, right? Like, he's such an action taker, and he's always, like, I know, pushing people to go out there and do something. Don't just think about it. Don't talk about it. Don't plan it all the time. Just do it. Do something.

Make it happen. I love that. Yep. The duro. Yep. Yep. All right. Well, guys, thanks again for listening.

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