BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 128: Investing in Foreclosures, Quitting Your Job, and Getting More Than 10 Loans with Anca Rader

Episode Date: June 25, 2015

On this episode of the BiggerPockets Podcast, we sit down and talk with a real estate entrepreneur who recently was able to quit her job and travel the world thanks to her real estate ambitions! You’ll learn the unique methods Anca uses to get around the “4 to 10 loans” limit to finance numerous properties, as well as many other tips on everything ranging from house hacking to buying foreclosures to buying at an auction, and so much more. Don’t miss this excellent interview with an incredible successful investor, Anca! In This Episode We Cover: How Anca got started with real estate Why Anca started with 50-50 partnership deals with her dad How they got their first deal How home equity loans can help you invest Buying foreclosed properties The ins and outs of REO foreclosures Tips for new real estate investors What you should know about getting loans How Anca manages her 33 rental units Using commercial loans to finance residential investments How Anca uses the BRRR strategy to invest with low-money down Anca’s smart strategy for getting deals when working with other agents The dangers of buying properties in auction Things you need to know about long distance investing And SO much more! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Store The Book on Flipping Houses by J. Scott The Book on Investing with No Money Down by Brandon Turner BiggerPockets Webinar BiggerPockets Webinar Pro Replays Auction.Com Hubzu HomeSearch Seth Rogen & James Franco Bound 3 HD (Explicit) Books Mentioned in this Show Rich Dad Poor Dad  by Robert Kiyosaki Total Recall: My Unbelievably True Life Story by Arnold Schwarzenegger The Obstacle Is the Way: The Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph by Ryan Holiday Connect with Anca Anca’s BiggerPockets Profile Anca’s Company Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 128. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on, everybody? This is Josh Dork and host to the Bigger's. Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, Mr. Brandon Turner. What's up, Brett?

Not much. How are you doing? I'm doing good, man. I'm doing good. You know, it's been fun having you here. Thanks. Fun adventure. I'm leaving you in like two hours. Going back home. You are. You are. You are.

Yeah, but we got to do this cool team building thing while you were here. The insane inflatable 5K was lots of fun to do with the Bigger Pockets team. I walked my first 5K. Yeah. Kind of had to walk because we're going through these muddily. fields. I mean, you couldn't really run or you would have been on your face the whole time. It was cool, though. Yeah, for people that don't know it, the inflatable 5K is an actual like 5K race-ish. And it's the gigantic inflatable, jumpy things that you climb up obstacles.

Yeah, it was pretty cool. So check it out in your area. Awesome. Awesome. Cool, man. So today we've got, we've got an interesting show. We talk about all sorts of stuff really dig into foreclosures and and acquisition strategies. But before we get into that, why don't we get today's quick tip? All right, today's quick tip is there is currently a sale running on the book on flipping houses and the book on investing in real estate with no and low money down. 10% off right now when you do BiggerPockets.com slash store and the code show 1-2-8. show 128 one word like sh ow 128 no spaces when does that expire that's 10% off and expires in one week from the day this comes out so this comes out on the 25th it expires on july 2nd so if you want to

get 10% off either of those books on bigger pockets not on amazon do it right now so yeah anyway to pick those up just go to bigger pockets.com slash store again that code is show 1-2-8 there you go quick tip cool here's the thing about traveling if you buy food at the airport a burrito salad bag of peanuts. You start wondering if you should have opened a savings account for snacks. So wouldn't it be great if you could actually earn money while you're traveling? Well, you can. Airbnb has

something called the co-host network. While you're away, you can hire a vetted local co-host with hosting experience to help take care of things. Communicating with guests, preparing your space, managing reservations, everything runs smoothly while you're off making memories. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at

Airbnb.com slash host. Here's the thing about traveling. If you buy food, at the airport, a burrito, salad, bag of peanuts. You start wondering if you should have opened a savings account for snacks. So wouldn't it be great if you could actually earn money while you're traveling? Well, you can. Airbnb has something called the co-host network. While you're away, you can hire a vetted local co-host with hosting experience to help take care of things, communicating with guests, preparing your space, managing reservations, everything runs smoothly while you're off making memories. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at

Airbnb.com slash host. Have you ever lost a DSCR deal because the financing just took too long? Red flags popped up late. The lender needed more time. The deal fell apart. Well, our friends at Dominion Financial just launched a program to help prevent that. With their new Express rental loan, you can close in 10 days or less. And they still offer their price beat guarantee.

So you can get great pricing and a timeline you can count on. Fast, simple, reliable. That's Dominion Financial. Check them out at biggerpockets.com slash dominion. That's biggerpockets.com slash dominion. All right. That was quick and quick on your toes, Brandon. Nice one.

Nice one. All right, guys, this is show 128. Thank you, everybody, for the ratings and reviews. You guys have been leaving us. They're awesome. Today, I'm going to read a couple really quick ones. Bill Horton, great podcasts with great info. Looking forward to many more.

Thank you, Bill. Thanks, Bill. J.W. Haas says the podcast is great. Just like the website. These guys are interested in helping people learn without trying to sell something highly recommended. Thank you. Thank you, J.W. Haas.

And this last one, somebody was going to give us five stars, but gave us three because of our stupid jokes. And we actually get that as feedback from time to time. But guess what, guys, we're going to give you the show that we want to give you. Brandon and I are being real. We are who we are. We're not trying to come up with stupid jokes. We are just stupid people. I try.

And so, okay, maybe he tries. But this is who we are. I can't tell what you get. And yeah, don't do that. So you get what you get. And we're going to be us. We're going to be real. And we're not going to put on errors to kind of produce the perfect show for you.

Because frankly, that's not who we are. That's not what we want to do. And, you know, hopefully you respect us for that. If you don't hope, you know, maybe you won't tune. Give us a three star rating. At least give us a rating. Well, they give us three star rate. I don't care.

I don't care. Go give us a rating. Even if it's three. Yeah. Get out there. Help us out. leave us a rating and, you know, just make sure in your feedback, you talk about Brandon's stupid jokes and not mine, because, you know, mine are pretty bad as well sometimes.

Anyway, with that, let's get to this. Today's show is with Anka Raider. She's been a buy-and-hold investor focused on single-family and small multifamily. It sounds like, and we'll find out a little bit more as we get into this. Anka's got some cool strategies for acquisition, really with a focus, it seems, on foreclosures. And so let's find out more about that and get into this show. All right, guys, she's officially my newest, most favorite guest, thanks to the snarky comment. She just threw it, Brandon. But let's bring her on. Akka Rader. Welcome to the show. It's good to have you here. It's great to be here in an honor, and I'm glad to be talking to you guys. Awesome. Thanks for having me on. Thank you. And I love bigger pockets.

Yay. Yes. You're the best. You're the best. Not just because you're my favorite guest, but because of what you said before. Okay, thanks. Which we're going to leave all of our guests wondering what exactly this is. But, yeah, so, Oika, welcome, welcome. Thanks for being here. And we are talking to you live in Romania. Is that right? Mm-hmm. Yes, correct. Well, we're not live in Romania, Josh. We're in Denver. Come on. That is true. But Occa is in Romania.

Yes, yes. This might be our most long-distance show. So it's very exciting. But thank you for taking the time to do this. And let's just jump right in. Who are you? Like, how did you get into this whole crazy world that is real estate? Well, I've kind of always been a saver and moved to the States when I was 12. And in high school, I read the rich, dead poor dad, as most people have.

I wonder what percentage of your listeners have actually read that book. And that's how they got started. I know. We should do a poll someday. You should do, yeah. And by the way, you said you moved to the states. Presumably you're talking about moving to the states from Romania as well, yes? Yes, correct.

Okay, great. Yeah, so I moved from Romania when I was 12. And anyway, so when I was in high school, I read the rich dad, poor dad book. And I just thought it was a great idea and something that I would really enjoy doing. So I kind of kept that in the back. of my head and then went to college, went to grad school, figure out how to get into real estate and get a job. And in 2007, I finally got a job working as an IT consultant. And that's about it for that. You had gotten your MBA, right? Yes, I do have an MBA and a BBA. Wow. Okay.

So, yeah, I'm pretty good at excelling. That's what my husband calls it using, you know, Excel to look at places. All right, so you did all this stuff. You're doing an IT consultant. You got your MBA and you all along trying to think about like, what do I do? How do I get into this real estate? Yeah. What happened from there?

Well, I got my license in 2005 at first. It just didn't know what to do. And then in 2007, when I started working, I started saving up more money. and because my dad has a construction company and he knows that I've been trying to figure out how to get into real estate, he offered to go 50-50 with me on an investment property. Okay. So, well, let's go there. So your dad trusts you for some reason. I mean, maybe it's the MBA, maybe it's the bloodline.

But, you know, this guy says, all right, I'm going to go 50-50 with you. I'm assuming he probably was putting up the money. No, we are 50-50 partners, so 50-50. Nice. Cash, 50-50 money. Okay. Sorry, bad assumption. Don't assume it makes an ass of you and me, and I just keep an ass to myself, but okay.

And you guys go in together, and what was the strategy? What, you know, what was the first deal that you guys decided to do? Well, we bought a house, a single family home. we closed on April 1st of 2008. So, yeah. And then we bought it with cash and we bought under his name. And then by the end of the year, we were able, like, we were both able to save enough money to where we bought a second house with cash and my name. So that's kind of how you got started.

Okay. Nice. So buying them. Why did you decide to go cash instead of using a loan on those first properties? We had some cash and we didn't know any better. It's not a bad thing That's a great reason. Yeah, I think a lot of people

Yeah, a lot of people think you have to You have to do one way or another But I don't think there has to be There's in a right or wrong way, right? Like there's something that works for some people And something that works for others And yeah, so I think that's cool. I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that.

Absolutely. Yeah, didn't even know how to get any loans at that time. So we just jumped in, did the best we could do. And then with, we did get loans after that. So the next step was, was my dad got a line of a home equity line of credit on his property. And then we were able to, you know, cash out and get two places on two more places with that loan. Let's talk about the home equity line of credit.

Can you kind of explain what that is and how that exactly works? Sure. Well, it's just basically a loan where you can take money out on a property that you own free and clear. At least ours was fair and clear. Okay, yeah. And so what we did is you don't have to take all the money out at one. you just kind of take it along as you go. And we just got like something along a $95,000 line of credit.

So we took some money out, bought a place, then fixed it up, rented it, then took some more money out, bought a place. What market are you working in? Chicago, the suburbs of Chicago. Okay, I was going to say Chicago for 90, I would think we'd get you like a two-by-two box. But is this like Southwest suburbs, Northwest? No, it's not. pretty much all our properties are within a 15 minute radius of where my parents live.

Okay. Got it. So, but starting in 2008, so the property got appraised at $150,000 is just what the loan. That's what the loan. Sorry. I'll repeat that. The property got a praise that $150,000, but we just took out, we got about $90,000 in a line of credit. Okay.

Got it. Got it, got it. What can you tell us about that, you know, those first few purchases? Like, what were you looking for? Were they single family houses or what kind of properties were they? They were all three bedroom, one bath, single family homes. And we were just looking to find something that we could rent and we had the budget for. So at the time, the market was still going down.

It was, like I said, we bought the first one on April 1st of 2008. So the market was still coming down. So we started buying at the time that it was coming down. Sure, sure. I like to say, like I started buying then too, my first one. one was 2007, 2008. It was like a roller coaster, like buying on the way down. Not sure where you're going to hit the bottom, but we just kept buying, hoping that we'd hit it sometime and start coming back up again.

Luckily, we did eventually hit bottom and come back up again. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I know you said your parents' house. I don't have your parents' address, so I have to ask, what market is your parents' house in? Southwest Chicago. Yeah, southwest.

But it's more west. It's, yeah. Okay, okay, fair enough. And you said three ones. You guys were buying three ones. A lot of people say the bread and butter is the three bedroom two bath. Why were you guys going for the three bedroom one bath? At first, it's just what was affordable. They were all foreclosures and we were just starting to learn the real estate game. Got it. So foreclosures, how are you buying them? Were you finding them on the MLS? These aureos, were you getting them at auction? How are you? How are you? You you acquiring these? MLS. So we've been mainly by an MLS since then. I've bought some places at a live auction, online auction, short sales, but mainly MLS. Okay. And those are REO foreclosures, correct? Correct. Okay. And so for those people who don't know when REO foreclosure is, you're talking about a property that's been taken back by the bank. And when they do, they clear all the liens. So it's, you know, you pick up that property. There's no liens attached to it. It's, you know, it's, you know,

definitively less risky than an auction property that may have liens on it. But that's kind of the advantage of an REO. And so these first properties that you acquired, did you know that? I mean, were you buying the REOs just because, you know, they were foreclosures? Were you buying them because you didn't know any better? I mean, what was kind of the, you know? We were buying them because they were the cheapest properties around. Okay. So, yeah. At the end of the day, you were looking for cheap.

And did you have any kind of idea on returns? Or again, you're like, I want to buy the cheapest property I could buy and we'll figure the rest out later. Yeah. At the beginning, I tried to run the numbers, but there wasn't really much, like, that many resources. At least I didn't see bigger pockets at the time. Sure. So pretty much after we bought the first place, I started running the, the number. So I came up with my own Excel after we bought our first place.

Got it. Sure. Got it. Okay, cool. Can I ask, like, what kind of advice do you have for other people who might be listening, who are just starting out, maybe want to buy their first property? Like, what did you learn during that process that you can help other people with? I've learned a lot during that first process, but what I would recommend for people that are starting out is what you've said, too, is go more of the heck your housing route and buy a place where they could live in. Now, I lived in the city and so I was renting while I was buying investment property because I wanted to live downtown. I wanted to live in the city, but things were too expensive in the city. That being said, if people can live in the suburbs or somewhere where it's, I was going to

say more affordable. Yeah. If they live in a more affordable area, then just buy duplex or four flat. So, and I said that with my husband's first loan, we got an FHA 203K, a 4-flat, and we bought it to live in. Hey, can you talk about that a little bit, the 203K loan? What exactly is it? How does it work? And why is that an advantageous type of loan for an investor? Two or three-k loan is where you also get extra money to fix up the place. So it's advantageous because, for example, with the FHA 203K loan, we put 3.5% down, which I actually recommend knowing better now, putting 5% down.

We put 3.5% down. And then we got 35,000 on top of that of the original loan to fix up the place. Why 5% versus 3%? The rules changed pretty much the week that we closed on our place. But now if you put only 3.5% down, you can never get rid of your PMI. Interesting. So even if you're, yeah. Yeah, so it's more of a 30-year commitment in terms of the PMI payments.

Unless, of course, you like refinance into a whole new loan, right? Yeah, but the interest rate is so low that I doubt by the time that happens that it'll be just as low. so it might just be worth keeping it as is and paying the right. So who would get a $2.3K loan? Like, I mean, can I get one if I want to just buy a primary residence? Does a landlord use that kind of loan? Is it for flippers? Who uses those?

It's for people for owner-occupied places. So I got, because I had already had a lot of experience in investing, but when I was an investor, I never lived in any of my investments. I got this with my husband's loan, which is a tip that I would also recommend is, I don't know if many people know. I think it was mentioned for, as a couple, you can get four loans, but if you get them separately as individuals, even if you're married, you can get eight separate loans.

So anyway, so I already had four loans, and I got my husband to get his first loan like that with a 203, FHA, 203K, and it's for an occupied places. It's not for investors. as far as I know. So just to clarify that so people, in case they don't know what you mean by four loans, so Fannie Mae, which is the largest buyer of mortgages in the country, most of the loans that people go out and take come from Fannie Mae. They end up anyway.

So Fannie Mae makes people fit inside this perfect box of you have to fit this, this, this, and this. And one of Fannie Mae's requirements is we only want you to have four loans on your credit report. Anything more than that, we're going to be angry. Now, Fannie Mae, or Freddie Mac, the other large buyer, will sometimes let you go up to 10 if it's the right bank and the right situation. but either way you're capped at those for having them on your credit thing so what you're talking about is that the marriage game i played it as well i love that right like the the rule is you can only have

four on your on your things so yeah my wife has a few properties in her name i have a few in my name and you know we've we've played that game as well and there's nothing wrong about it it's just you have to fit within their rules and that's part of the game we have to play to fit there so anyway i think that's awesome and i'm also a huge advocate of the 203k loan in fact can i can i plug here. Uncle, can I plug on your show in my book? I'm going to plug you on here. All of chapter two. All of chapter two is about house hacking

and including a huge section on the 203K loan. So if people want to pick up that book, biggerpockets.com slash what was it? No money. Yeah. Bigger pockets. slash no money. And all of chapter two is about house hacking, including a bunch on the 203K. So very cool. Which, by the way, as we're recording this,

I just have to add this. It is officially the number one book in the real estate category on Amazon right now as we're speaking, which we've never had happened before. And so congratulations to Brandon for being the number one, absolutely official, number one bestselling author in the real estate category on Amazon right now. That may change in too. That is pretty awesome. And here's what we're going to do to celebrate. We've never done this before. To encourage people to comment on the show notes on this, I'm going to give away,

we're going to give away two physical books mailed to your house of the book on investing in real estate with no one loaned down to somebody who comments in the, so two different people can win in the comment section. So we're going to have Anka pick the best comment. We'll get what seven days maybe. And then the two best comments that she... Can I comment? You can comment as well.

And if you pick your own, that's cheating. But Anka's going to get that. Do that at biggerpockets.com slash show. 128. That's biggerpockets.com slash show 128. Leave a comment. And you know, you'll get a chance to win one.

of the two books of Brandon's, what is it called? A book on investing in real estate with no and low money down. Oh, money down. There you go. The best book ever written on. Oh, yeah. Human kind. All right, moving on.

So, let's see, so you did the 203K, you bought a four flat. Is that correct, you said? Or a fourplex if you're in the rest of the U.S., not in Chicago. Which is funny, Chicago calls them flats. I've argued this before, or I've complained about this before, but you're the only place in the country that say flat. Yeah, four units, what the rest of us say, but the rest of the world, I don't know. Anyway.

So you did that. How many total properties do you have or have you invested in now? Like overall. 33 at the moment. And I have offers on three. So are you guys holding the 33 properties right now? Mm-hmm. Still you and your dad? So, okay. I'm a little younger and a little more aggressive than my dad. So we have, I have basically three different companies. One with my dad and I 50-50. One was just by myself and one was my husband. been now. Wow. Okay.

Very cool. And so are you primarily, I mean, this is what you do for a living, right? You buy rental properties, you hold on to them and you take the cash flow and are expanding that business or are you working while you're doing all this? I've had a full-time job until March of this year. Okay. So I've been working. I had a full-time job during the whole time that I was investing.

And I didn't want to quit my job until I pretty much replaced my job from, passive income in real estate. Got it. How long did that? Seven years. Seven years. Right on. So for those people who are like,

hey, I'm going to be a real estate investor and buy and whole property and then I'm going to quit my job in like six weeks. You're playing the long game. Yeah. My tip to them is wait, don't do it.

You know, I mean, invest in real estate, but don't quit. Keep your day job. And why should they do that? I mean, why keep your day job? what advantages did you find that having the day job gave to you?

Just being able to leverage. I could not have leveraged if I would not have kept my day job. So I just made enough income from my regular job to where I was still, regardless of what happened with the properties, I was still a good bet. And once I got to the point where I didn't really need my job anymore, the business was making money and was supporting itself. then I started feeling comfortable with quitting my job. I still didn't quit for six plus months after that. Got it. Got it.

So now that you've quit your job, and I'm assuming has your husband quit his job as well? Yes, temporarily. He's here with me. My grandparents raised me, so I took the time off as soon as I had some freedom to spend some time with him. I love that. That's cool.

So that's why I'm in Romania. Okay, yes. So I love the fact that you, you know, because people work so hard to achieve their goals with real estate. I love the fact that you, you know, after you achieve that goal, quitting your job, you went and traveled the world or at least went and traveled back home to your, I don't know, native land. Is that the word? I think that's awesome.

I love that. Yeah. And we've been traveling to my husband's bike is here, his motorcycle. So we've been riding around. He went to Moldova. You went to Ukraine, Transnistria. These are all places in a land called Europe. to all the Americans listening who don't know anything about what you're talking about

because we're very very much self-centered people here in America. Which we shouldn't be, but you know, we are. That's very cool. So you actually took a motorcycle. You guys did like a motorcycle trip around Europe. That's so cool. Eastern Europe. Eastern Europe.

That's so cool. Yeah. Well, my husband did a motorcycle trip from South Africa to Norway a couple of years ago. Wow. That's awesome. And he left his bike here. and my grandparents house. So the bike was already here.

So why not? That's great. Nice. That's very cool. Let's talk more about your business. Let's rewind a little bit. You said 30-something units, the first bunch you did on your own. You've got partnerships.

I mean, what happens to those people who don't know, what happens when you hit your four limit and your husband hits his four limit? And now where do you go? Your dad hits his four unit. How do you move forward? Get into commercial loans. So that's what I ended up doing. And for, I guess a tip would be for people to look at small local banks for loans.

It took me a while to figure that out. So what I ended up doing and how I found the two banks that I work with in Chicago is there's Crane's list of top 100 local banks. And I just copied that, put an Excel spreadsheet, got the addresses, got the phone numbers. So I could also find which bank is closest to me and then just started calling them during, launch. And what do you ask them when you call them? I call, well, I ask to speak with a commercial banker and then I ask if they offer commercial loans on residential property and if they do what type of loans. Because I don't just want to get a loan. I want to get the best option possible, but also get a bank that's close to around where we live. Nice. Around where my dad lives.

And what is the best option possible mean? I'm sorry. Like, you know, is that just interest rate or are you looking for anything else beyond that? interest rate and also the term of the loan so there's different banks do like let's say amortized over 20 years but then it balloons over five years or maybe it's fixed for 15 years or that kind of stuff so because I'm pretty risk adverse for a real estate investor I try to I try to find a bank that not only gives me a good rate but also gives me a longer term on the loan you know I just want to like point out what you did that I think is so awesome that I think our listeners should do. If you guys are struggling to get a loan or you're having trouble, you know, I mean, that is so cool. You went and got a list about 100 banks, wrote down their phone numbers for everyone and called everyone. I mean, like, or you just started making phone calls. I mean, like, that is such like an action step that people are like, I don't know what to do or can't get a loan. And then they go and play their

video games or watch TV, right? Like that's so cool. Like you just, I don't know. So that's a just tip for people. If they're, if they're struggling to get loans, just do what you did there and yeah I think that's awesome and that you found that so what kind of um I guess what kind of maybe you kind of said this but what kind of terms are you are you actually getting I mean are you getting 15 year are you getting you know a five year balloon payment what kind of things are you seeing well I'm using two different banks but the one that I got the better terms that I liked and I like to work with is 20 year I'm um but then a 70 year fixed rate okay that's I thought that was a pretty good deal. Yeah.

Yeah. And are you, you know, with a 20-year M or, you know, so for people don't know, like the loan is spread out over 20 years. A lot of times residential spread out over 30. So with a 20, you're probably seeing less cash flow because your payment is a lot higher. Is that, I mean, is that what you are noticing? Are you still seeing cash flow anyway? Or are you in this more for appreciation or loan pay down now? I'm mainly a cash flow investor, but still, I mean, all the places, minus the first one we bought cash flow pretty well. Okay. That's great. I mean, can we talk about that? I mean, I'd love to hear kind of typical numbers or, you know, an example of one of the properties that, you know, is your kind of average, you know, cookie cutter, Anka, Raider, investment property. So, you know, can you potentially pick one out and tell us about it? Sure, I'll speak about one of my favorites. Well, we have three of those, but it's a four flat.

So they're four flats. What I like to do rather than flipping is what I call flip to myself, which is buy a place, like a foreclosure, fix it up, like rehab it, rent it out, then get a loan on it, then get it a loan on it. So that's kind of what I've been doing. And one example is, like I said, a four flat, which we bought for. 85,000 and but and we put 20,000 repairs now the 85,000 I mean it was in pretty rough shape when we went in to look at it there was ice on the floor in the bedroom and ice on the wall

nice nice ice where you know Brandon's got this mystery where he's got a water spot in one of his apartments in the middle of the floor and nobody has figured out where this is coming from where Where pray tell is the ice coming from? Well, it was winter. The pipes burst. And yeah, the water was still on. I guess it wasn't winterized. And yeah, there was like a sheet of ice on the wall.

And so you could pretty much skate on the floor. That's awesome. That's pretty great. All right. So I was going to say the strategy you're talking about is something I like to call the burr strategy. I made that up a few months ago, like BRRR, R, which is the buy rehab. rent, refinance, repeat. And basically, it sounds like what you're doing.

You bought it, you fixed it up, you rehabbed it, and then you rented it out, and then you got to get a loan on it and get all your money back or most of your money back or whatever, and then go and do it again. It's just a really solid thing. I did a webinar on it back, what, a month ago. And we have a pro replay room that pro members can go and watch all the old webinars. So if you're a pro member, BiggerPockets.com slash pro replay, go look for the webinar. It's like an hour and 20 minutes on how to invest in fix her upper rentals,

using the burr strategy. So anyway, if you are a pro member, go check that out today. It's pretty cool. And yeah, so what do you want to go? Josh, what do you want to talk more about the, I mean, the numbers. So I mean, you say cash flow, you get a 20 year, you know, am on this. What, you know, you paid, what did you say, 85? It put 20 in.

85, but no, 40K in repairs. Now, yeah, my dad's guys work, do the rehab. So it's probably a little cheaper than if you outsource the work, so speak. So we're pretty much a total of 125k in. It got appraised at 180, so we basically got a 130k loan on it. Yep. So we got in, we were 25% equity plus we got $5,000 extra dollars, but of course we're actually using that to reinvest in other property. And the place is rented for $8.50 for apartment, so that's $3,500 a month. Wow. Oh, it's $8.50 per apartment for four.

Wow. Wow. Those are some incredible cash. Yeah, I'm moving. I'm going to move my investing there. Do, were those like incredible deals or are those fairly common or I got those getting harder to find, I'm assuming? They're not that common, but I checked on my last 24.

Like, I check it pretty much every other minute. Okay, not really that often. I check it pretty often, though. Like, before I go to bed. And that was, that was an REO, MLS deal on the, one. Wow. Yes. But what I typically do is, even though I have my license, I've had my real estate license for a year,

what I typically do is call a selling agent, have them show me the place and give them the commission. That way, they're more likely to have me to buy the place. Yeah, that's an amazing tip. And I think somebody said that a long time ago, but we'll just repeat it here. Yeah, that idea, if you are an agent, or even if you're not an agent, If you work with the selling agent, they get double the commission, they have double the incentive to sell it to you. Of course, technically an agent isn't supposed to steer one buyer or the seller to accept one buyer versus another. But we all know it.

I mean, these are people. And so if an agent's got two deals on their desk and one is going to give them double a commission, naturally they're going to be a little more inclined to hurry up and get that offer submitted and all those things that maybe aren't, you know, I don't know. I don't know if that's illegal or not, but they do it. Like, it's common. I mean, you're allowed to double book a property, but you're definitely not supposed to, you know, steer. You know, you have to still act in the best interest of the client. Yeah. The best interest of the client is the person who's going to close, not just the person who's going to give you the biggest commission check. Yeah. But I see it all the time. People still do it. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a great deal. That's really. I mean, that's awesome. Can I ask who manages that property, like all of your properties?

Sure. My dad does. Okay. Okay. So that's cool. So you guys manage everything as well. Yeah. Well, he does. I more handle the acquisition. Yeah. The acquisitions, the long-term planning, that kind of stuff. Financing. Yep. Got it. Wouldn't it be great if your houseplants paid rent while you were out of town?

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All right. Go ahead. I want to go into your buying strategy. So this one was REO MLS. A bunch of the early ones you said were REO MLS. But you also had talked about going to auction. Are you purchasing properties from websites like auction.com or HubZoo? Are you just buying at the courthouse steps?

Can we dig into that a little bit? Well, I've done all three actually, except, okay, so I bought one live. I've bought one from auction.com and I've bought one from Hubzoo.com. Okay. I've not yet bought something from home search. Okay. Sorry, can you just explain the difference between the three? I'm going to cut you off.

I'm going to cut you off every time. I was going there. It was my turn to talk. Well, it's more important that I asked the question. And you're going to keep doing this. I'm better looking. Because it's my turn. I talk clear.

I'm clearly better. All right, Anka. So let's talk about, let's start with HubZoo. We both are really good. Let's start. Okay. Sorry. Can we start with HubZoo?

Sure. I'll stop. Wow. You know. Okay. Let's talk about HubZu. Do you want me to leave? Do you guys need a room?

No, we can talk ourselves. You can go over there. I'll, I'll handle this interview. I'm, you know, I, uh, you know, I, uh, you're not a little aggressive here. I want to know about a hub zoo. Since Josh asked that, I'm going to ask it better. Tell me about HubZoo. What, what exactly is HubZoo and should I be using it? It's an online action site where, um, houses pretty much keep on getting real, relisted every seven days. So let's say, for example, at least for the ones that I, that I keep an eye on, um,

the house that we ended up buying and we closed down in February I've been keeping I was keeping an eye on I was keeping an eye out on the house since pretty much June or July of last year so it just the price kept on changing kept on going back up down it's like at the time when it was first at auction it just wasn't low low enough to where it was worth buying but yeah so our people explain that to because you said it goes up it goes down this thing goes on the market it goes to that's okay it goes to hubsu we're going to keep talking here Goes to Habzu. All right.

This thing goes lists. Yeah. Is there a reserve or is there no reserve? There is a reserve. Okay, so there's a reserve. So say a property goes on the market, the reserve price is, say, $100,000. Nobody bids $100,000 so it doesn't sell. I don't really understand somebody raising the price at that point or a website raising the price.

I mean, is that typical? Well, the price changes. I mean, they relisted every seven days, even if nobody bids on it. Why do they really, I guess I'd have to get the guy from HubZoo over here to talk about that. Actually, it wouldn't be a bad idea. I just know how it works. Sure. Yeah, so it gets relisted every seven days.

Interesting. Yeah, I need to look into that more because I know that some properties in my areas have been listed on HubZoo and I'd never bother to even how do they pursue them because I just, I've never done it and it scares me and I'm afraid and sometimes I cry and so I'm not going to do it. It was a pretty good experience. I've bid on Hubzu places more than once. It's just that I only got one out of the several ones that I bid on. And it's because sometimes even though there is a reserve and even if, let's say, you have the highest bid at the end of the auction, they might still come back to the bank, even depending on what the reserve is, they might come back to you and counter. And maybe the counter's too high and then you might not want to take the place.

So can you look at these properties? Can you visit them? Can you walk in or are you bidding sight unseen? You can look at them. I do have my license so I can just get the code right on the site. You just click on the view code link. And for somebody who does not have a license. They can have an agent show them the places. Okay. That's good to know. So it's not like the courthouse steps where you may not have a chance to see these properties before you're bidding on them. Correct. Okay, cool. So that's HubZoo. I'm looking at it right now. You just, you know, you've got time. You've got big. It gives you kind of basic details. You could click the view detail link here, and it's got pictures and MLS ID. So these are properties that are actually listed on the MLS. Most of the time.

I've noticed that some of them are not listed on the MLS. They're just in HubZoo. Got it. Okay. Okay. It probably depends on the agent. Makes sense. What about auction.com?

Is it similar? No, it's not similar. Okay. And they typically just have the price keep on going up and up and up to where with Hubzoo, you just bid. And if nobody bids, nothing happens. But with auction.com, it seems that the price goes up with or not somebody bids on the place. Interesting.

To meet the minimum reserve, potentially. For example, we actually bought a house that was at auction.com. I kept an eye on it. It went up to $100,000. And it said that it sold or it went up to $100,000. But several months later, I saw it on the market on the MLS for $69,000. Really? and bought it for 68.

That's funny. So maybe they listed it on there. I've heard complaints about, like, certain auction sites, like, bidding automatically. That may not have actually been a bid. I don't remember what auction sites they were, but certain ones say that there's a phantom bids that the company just does. I don't know if that was a case or not, but, yeah, interesting. Yeah, that's what seemed to be the case, because I've been also keeping eye on auction.com

just to see how the system works. Sure. So I did buy a place on auction.com. And that's just like even every, it just kept on bidding every like even maybe a hundred and a hundred dollar increments. And then I ended up getting the place. But yeah. Yeah. Cool.

Right on. And how do you, let's jump lastly to the courthouse steps. You said you've purchased from the courthouse steps. Yes. Okay. Well, courthouse steps as in the judicial sales group. Okay. Got it.

And what was that like? Tell us the experience. Okay, there's just an office in Chicago, and it's the Judicial Sales Corporation, and we went in, you had to go there 30 minutes ahead of time, sign up, have your cash. You have to have enough to at least 25% of what the price of the property, what the max is they are willing to bid, and different properties came up for sale. And they started with the bank minimum bid. and people either bid and raise the price or if not the bank got them.

And with the property that we got, there were a couple of bidders. So we went several thousand, maybe about 15,000 over the original bank asking price or minimum bid. So when they say cash, do you literally have to show up with a pile of actual hard cash currency, $50 bills, $100 bills? Or is it like a cashier's check? It's a cashier's check. Okay. So you might as well, you might want to give them, you might want to get different increments of checks just because if you, if it's 25%, you might want to get three or four, $5,000 checks or something like that to give them. But don't walk around with a stack of 20s, right?

Don't. Correct. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. All right. So now on these properties, are you able to see them beforehand or not? You're not supposed to. But you can kind of. Meaning that there's ways to. But if there's a way to get it. in and you happen to see it, I would just call it doing your due diligence. Okay. So if the door is wide open and you're walking by and you happen to see, you know,

look in the front door while it's open, you can see some stuff about it. I got you. I got you. Okay. So what's the danger? I'm not going to comment at all. The danger is that you. Well, not the danger of walking and getting shot by someone who's still in their property,

which they're usually vacant at that point. What's the danger of buying it in an auction? I mean, like, what should people be worried about if they go to an auction to buy? They might not even know. For example, Chicago is really strict in terms of village requirements. So the specific house we bought needed $8,000 worth of work in terms of the water line. Okay, so there could be a lot of, like, the danger is definitely in not knowing, I mean, what you're going to get. I mean, there's a lot of things that could be wrong or a lot of requirements that once you get in.

there you have to bring it up to a certain code and you didn't know. And so there can definitely be some risk there. But more risk, more reward, I guess. Well, do you guys recommend auctions for new investors or is it something that probably should be left for those people who've been in the biz who kind of know a little better who have the capacity to, yes, I'm spoon feeding the answer to you, who, you know, better, be smarter and know the business better before they start doing this. Yeah, we were pretty much at like our 25th property. So we are at 33 units properties, but almost 60 units now. So we were already 25 properties in plus by the time we started looking into auctions.

Got it. That's great. So I would not recommend it to a newbie just because there's a lot of risk. And if that's your first deal and you get burned, you might not get a second deal. Yeah, I hear you. I think I tend to hear like I've talked to invest. before they do a lot of auctions, and they kind of look at it as a numbers game in that, like, they're like, we know that one out of, you know, or two out of every 10 are going to lose

money, but we know the other ones are going to be better. And so we play, like they risk, knowing that a certain percentage will be bad, but the good ones will make up for it. And so if you're brand new and you're only going to buy one property, let's say 20% are bad. You have a 20% chance of buying a property that's going to sink you. I mean, so it's just there's a risk there. And people that can buy a lot of properties can overcome that risk, purely because of the volume that they buy in. And so I'm not, yeah, I don't necessarily say don't buy if you're new, but, you know, be careful. And make sure you do due diligence.

And if you're unsure, you don't want to take that risk or you can't afford to take the risk, then don't do it. So before we move on and go to the fire round, I wanted to ask you about you're currently in Romania, but you mentioned earlier before we got on the call that you were currently working on, you know, making some offers and doing some, I mean, that's a long way, that's a long distance to be investing in real estate while you're overseas. Do you have any tips for other people who might be, whether or not overseas or maybe just across the country? I mean, how do you invest in real estate when you're at a long distance like that? Well, I've, we already have a team in place.

So we have the same people that have been doing the rehabs. They've been doing the flips, the flip to yourself, not actual flips, have been doing the property management. And my dad kind of handles that so it's really not a problem. I would not buy something side- unseen, but that's just me. And I would really do a lot of research before buying something across the country. Since I've been here, we have closed on two duplexes. Nice. Even if I wasn't in the States, but we already seen the places, they were under contract.

Cool. Congratulations. Yeah. Thanks. Nice. That's great. That's great. Awesome. And good advice, by the way.

I mean, I think, you know, I mean, side unseen is definitely. dangerous and I think when when you're new it's probably a bad idea as you as you get smarter obviously makes more sense and if you're willing to spend 10 20 50 100,000 on a place you should be willing to spend a couple hundred bucks on a plane ticket to check out the place in the area that is true very good advice that's a tweetable topic that is there I like that um all right so my official last question before the fire round what are your future plans like where do you see yourself going in the future with your investing I would like to get to the point where I'm investing in apartment complexes and commercial buildings.

So I'm slowly trying to grow to get the business to the point where it's not that big of a deal to start buying a 50 unit versus a six unit. Cool. All right. Awesome. Awesome. Hey, listen, it's great. It seems like you've got a good strategy. You know, you've come a long way and congratulations on all the success. And why don't why don't we move forward to the fire round and we can kind of dig in a little bit deeper and ask some questions. So it's time for the fire round. All right. Question number one of the fire round is I'm going to let's see where is it. I just saw it. Oh yeah, I just passed my real estate license exam. What's my next step? I'm an investor. I just passed my license. What's my next step? What should I do with my license now that I have it? You need to find a company to work for ideal.

you would look for a real estate company that has other real estate agents that are investors. I just used my aunt because she had a company, so that's kind of the route I went. Okay. I like that tip, though, looking for a company that has other people that are investors in that company. I think that's very, very smart. Nobody's ever said that I don't think on the show. Yeah, very cool. We haven't heard that.

And yeah, I think if your focus is going to be that, then you definitely want to do that. there's a whole lot of brokerages that know nothing. I mean, the brokers don't know anything, the agents there know nothing. I mean, you want to be around people who know what they're doing as it pertains to investors. So great advice. Just as a tip, just because you have your license doesn't mean that you still cannot give the commission away. It might be helpful to still give the commission to the selling agent, even though you could get the commission in the long run. it might be worth it to give it away so you can have the place. I love that.

Yeah. I almost feel like getting my license just for that reason. Like that, just for that alone, as being able to do that. I think that's great. So, cool. All right. Next question. Right on.

Right on. Next question. I'm looking to finance my first rental property. The owner is going to sell me at $35,000 if I can come up with the financing. What's the best way to finance rental properties? So forget the numbers. What's the best way to finance rental properties? If they have good credit and don't have any loans, I would say just go to a regular bank.

But otherwise, if you have four loans or more, you should just try to get a commercial loan on it. That being said, 35,000 is kind of low to get a commercial loan. Yeah, you may have a hard time with a loan that's small, correct? Yeah. Yeah. So maybe I can ask, what would you do in that case? 35 grand. If you didn't have the cash, do you have any good ideas?

I might try to ask some friends or family, potentially to begin with. If I didn't have any cash, I didn't have a good credit. But what I would do nowadays is just get a couple of properties and get a bulk loan on it. Okay. Cool. Very cool. And that's one of the benefits of commercial loans, too, is that they can be a little more creative with that idea of let's package two or three properties together and loan on that. I mean, commercial is just so much more creative than residential loans. So another benefit. But next question is, do I have to have an LLC in order to get financing through a hard money lender or a private lender. Do I have to have an LLC?

You don't have to have an LLC, but it would be helpful just in general for your protection. That being said, a hard money lender wouldn't necessarily care if it wasn't an LLC because you would still be held responsible for the loan anyway. Sure. And I know a lot of banks will like, you know, give you a hard time over, you know, a lot of banks won't lend to you if you're trying to buy it with an LLC. but Hardman lenders generally are a little more willing to do LLC lending because, yeah, like you said, they understand that you're still responsible. They know how it works. They're investors themselves.

They get it. So, yeah, I think your advice is spot on. Right on. Right on. Cool. All right. Next question. This is directly from the forums.

Actually, I saw it today. So I thought I'd ask you, it's, I made an offer on a fourplex. Now, how do I negotiate? So I guess, do you have any good tips on negotiating on multifamily properties? Have you ever done any negotiation with them? I typically just figure out what I want to pay for the property and kind of base my offer on that versus negotiating because sometimes it's listed for more than it's worth. Sometimes it's listed for less. So you just have to figure out what the property is worth.

Yeah. That's actually kind of my strategy too. I figure out what it's worth and they offer that. And then they come back and they're like, you know, I tried negotiate and I'm like the worst negotiator because I'm like, no, I did my numbers. I already gave you my best number. Like I just, that's what I pay is what it's worth. and if they don't like it, it generally works well for me, yeah.

Well, there you go. You just negotiated. Congratulations. I guess. Yeah, that's my negotiation is. Yeah. Take it or leave it. This is my best price.

What do you want to do? There you go. Sounds like you're kind of similar there, Unka. Cool. All right, well, let's move on, I guess, to our world famous. Famous Four.

All right, the Famous Four, these are questions we ask every one of our guests. And so we're going to throw them at you right now. Number one, What is your favorite real estate related book? Well, I read and listen to a lot of books, and I try to think of a book that hasn't been mentioned and that I think is pretty cool. And it's Arnold Schwarzenegger's autobiography.

It's Total Recall My Unbelievably True Life Story. Very cool. I don't want to give too much away, but it does involve real estate. That's what I heard. It does. Yeah. It's a great book, and I think whoever reads it will be inspired to do more. Cool. We actually, we've been trying to get Arnold for the podcast.

And hopefully, if anyone's listening and is connected to Arnold and wants to put a good word in, we would certainly love to have Arnold come in and talk about his real estate background because it sounds like that's one of those things that he was into before he became huge. And anyway, cool story. But awesome, awesome. Good book, books. Good suggestion. Good suggestion. Let's go to business books. What's your favorite business book?

Again, I'm trying to use one that hasn't been said. It's The Obstacles the Way by Ryan Hill. And it just talks about, in order to succeed, one needs to take action, to be persistent to learn from their failures versus being defeated by it. Okay. So I think those are some pretty good rules of them for any real estate investor and entrepreneur to live by. Very cool. I like it. Never heard of that one. That's great. Yeah.

What about hobbies? What do you do for fun, Anka? Real estate. Yeah. There it is. That's it. And traveling the world. Yeah. Motorcycline and when I'm not, yeah, when I'm not focused on real estate, I do like spending time with my family, traveling, reading, learning, and drawing. Drawing. You should draw a picture of Brandon.

You should draw picture of me. Okay. That'd be a pretty awesome picture. I'll tell you. Scary. Random story about a picture of me. So I was in a play, like a community theater when I was a senior in high school. And for this play, there was, I was like the, I don't know, I was supposed to be like the dead, like, grandfather or something like that.

Anyway, so they took a picture of me and then they had a painter, like, I think it was like a computerized painting of like four feet by four foot picture of me, a portrait of me like as a, I don't know, to put above the fireplace on the scene on the picture. stage. Anyway, after the play was done, they gave me this gigantic poster, like, of me, like big, huge framed. So I took this in college, and I would randomly go place it in the girl's dorm room, like, around my college, just in like hanging on the wall. This four-foot portrait of Brandon Turner. It was pretty awesome. And I, I think I still have it somewhere in my parents' garage or something. That's awesome. Yeah, I'll try to find that. I don't know. I'm showing on. I don't know. I'll show it on BP. Anyway, moving on. That is how, that's how, that is how I got my wife. That is exactly how, yep, I hung it. I hung it.

in her room right above her bed. So she woke up in the middle of the night and it was there. And no, I didn't do that. That's not creepy at all. All right, moving on. You ask hobbies,

it's my turn, right? Okay. What do you, Uncle, what do you believe sets apart successful real estate investors from those who give up, fail, or never get started?

Setting goals, taking informed action, and being persistent. Three out of three. Perfect. Perfect, perfect. Anka, where can people find out more about you? On BiggerPockets and also on the summeroff.com.

The Summeroff.com. Cool. All right, we'll link to your profile on the show notes at Biggerpockets.com slash show 128. And Anka, thank you so much for being on the show. We really appreciate it. Thanks for having me, guys. All right, thank you. All right, everybody.

That was Anka Rader. Big thanks again for being on the show. We really appreciate it. If you've got questions for Anka, jump on the show notes at biggerpockets.com slash show 128. And be sure to leave a comment there because we will be picking two guests, commenters, and be giving away a copy of Brandon's book to two people who leave a comment on the show notes. So if you're one of them, you might get a free book. Check it out.

Get on there. Leave feedback. Leave comments, ask questions, whatever you want to do. And we appreciate you doing that. Brandon, you had something you wanted to add that's... Oh, I had an idea. You and I should take a motorcycle trip around Eastern Europe. Wouldn't that be fun?

Can I... Can we go to the back? Can I get behind you? No, I am... Yeah, have you guys seen that music video with Seth, Seth Rogan and James Franco on their motorcycle? It is the best music video you'll ever see. It's the funniest thing.

I'll put it in the show notes. Anyway, that'll be you and me. Excellent. That'll be funnier when you see that music video. You'll... Yeah. Yeah, you'll be driving. That's right. All right. Let's get out of here. You want to take us out? Yeah. All right, guys, thanks for listening. Check out BiggerPockets at BiggerPockets.com. Jump in, get connected, get engaged. And we'll see you next week on the show on Bigger Pockets podcast. Check out our old episodes at

biggerpockets.com slash podcast. All right, guys, thanks for listening. I'm Josh Dorkin. Signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors. large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the height, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com. Your home for Real Estate Investing online. Check out all our, check out our old. Check our, we'll put this in the outtakes. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate Podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

On the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer, the show is produced by Ian K, copywriting is by Calicoe content, and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk. So use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. Bigger Pocket's LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential, or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast.