BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 161: Turning Good Income Into Incredible Legacy Wealth with NFL Star Ryan Broyles

Episode Date: February 11, 2016

A lot of people make good income from their jobs, but few are able to turn that income into lasting, generational wealth. That’s why we’re super pumped to bring you this interview with professional football player Ryan Broyles. Ryan shares the strategies he used to turn the money made from football into rental properties that will provide for his future for decades to come. Ryan candidly talks about the creative strategies he’s used to pull off some impressive deals, the keys to working with partners, living life on a budget, and more. This episode is bound to change your outlook on investing, whether you are a football fan or not! In This Episode We Cover: Who Ryan Broyles is A mandatory discussion on the NFL (and the Broncos!) Why he got into real estate investing Ryan’s first deals What exactly “legacy income” is How to avoid bankruptcy after a career Thoughts on lobbying for the rookie symposium How to know if you can trust a potential partner How to do your homework when investing with a partner What it was like when he was a first-time landlord Why you shouldn’t overthink making deals How Ryan manages via an LLC What you should know about bulk deals How he buys houses Why you should mix cash flow and appreciation The importance of continuous learning A micro way of thinking about budgeting A discussion on living within your means A look at Ryan’s blueprint What to do when you reach your goals Why you should have a “unit perspective” in real estate What Ryan’s long term plan looks like And SO much more! Links from the Show Josh’s Twitter BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Twitter Books Mentioned in this Show Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki Investing For Dummies by Eric Tyson Tweetable Topics: “You can keep exploring real estate your whole life.” (Tweet This!) “If I don’t get the best deals, I’m not going to take them because I’m already where I want to be.” (Tweet This!) Connect with Ryan Ryan’s Website Ryan’s Twitter Ryan’s Facebook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 161. It's fun now. It's a game to me. And like I said, I get to open up this next deal for people that may not be able to do something like this. So I can only imagine where the next 10 years are going to take me. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned.

and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on, everybody? This is Josh Dorkin. House to the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, Mr. Brandon Turner. What's up, Brandon? Not much. How you doing?

I'm good, man. I'm good. How you doing? I'm okay. As I whine about in the show, which people hear about it a little bit, I like tore something funny in my shoulder. And now I'm like walking around, like, crying all the time. I don't know.

It hurts. Let me bust out my violin. I know. there's a, you know, the price you've got to pay when you're trying to get sexy, right? Yeah, well, you're going to have to work really hard for that. I did shave a little bit, so I'm a little more kemped today. Yeah, not as, not as, uh, lumber sexual as, as I expect. Yeah, you know, I'll get there. Yeah. Check this out right here. You got a new microphone cover. Wow. It's called the flag. Whatever they're called. People are listening to this on iTunes. They can't,

they can't see that. Well, they, the ones who can see it. We got a new, we got some new mic flags. Look a job. The new logos. Yeah, very. exciting. Very exciting. Well, cool. Yeah. Yeah. So today's kind of a fun show.

It is a fun show. They have been of late. I mean, we, you know, really getting some awesome guests. And today's guest, he's, he's fantastic. He's fun. Personality. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, he started to invest in real estate. He's in the NFL. He started playing, started taking his money, put into real estate. I mean, it's just inspiring story. And not just for people who want to, you know, who are in the NFL. I mean, anybody who wants to turn income today into legacy income. You guys are going to love this show. I mean, just kind of the progression he went from starting with a first single family

all the way to a ton of deals. You guys will hear it. It's awesome. Yeah. I'm very creative. Lots of learning. And yeah, it's a blast. It's a blast.

So before we get into it, we've got a few things. One, guys. Which, not yet. Not yet. Okay, rewind that. This is show 161 of the Bigger Pockets podcast. You can find the show notes of biggerpockets. com slash show 161.

big thank you to everybody who's been leaving ratings and reviews. If you haven't done it yet, jump in and do that on iTunes and Stitcher and so on and so forth. And otherwise, yeah, let's quick tip the sucker. Quick tip. All right. Can I take today's? Yeah. All right.

Today, I wanted to say this because Josh would yell at me if I knew you were I was going to say this. So today, actually yesterday is Josh's birthday. And not just any birthday. Come on. Josh just turned 40 years old. I'm 40. Yeah, Josh has turned 40 years old. So the quick tip today is very, very simple.

Go to Twitter and then blow up Josh's Twitter. It's at J.R. Dorkin and wish him a happy birthday. I want him to have a thousand tweets when this episode comes out, maybe 10,000 tweets when this comes out. So go blow up Josh's Twitter at J.R. Dorkin and wish him a happy birthday. You're welcome. Thank you. You're going to be nothing but your phone's going to be beeping all day.

Just my phone's off. Yeah, your phone's going to go nonstop. All right, anyway. So, thank you. Here's the thing about traveling. If you buy food at the airport, a burrito, salad, bag of peanuts, you start wondering if you should have opened a savings account for snacks. So wouldn't it be great if you could actually earn money while you're traveling?

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Choose flexible payment methods like Same Day ACH, International Wires, Card, or Check, and set custom roles in approval policies. There's even a dedicated bill inbox. for each property to keep everything organized. Ready to simplify your workflow, book your free demo at bill.com slash bigger pockets, and get a $100 Amazon gift card. That's bill.com slash bigger pockets. You know, guys, we just want to say, you know, thank you for listening to the podcast. You guys rock. And, you know, yeah, you guys rock. So I hope you guys enjoy today's episode. I think you're going to learn a lot. You're going to be inspired to go take action because this guy is all about action.

Josh, you want to introduce them? I do. I do. I do. And that was very well said, by the way. Thank you. The thank you for listening, yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. You guys. All right, guys.

Today's guest is Ryan Broyles. Ryan is just this energetic guy with, you know, a huge heart and he's a ball of energy. And he... A football of energy. You don't even know what a football is. Relax. All right. It's that thing you shoot in the goal unit basket, right?

Exactly. Exactly. So Ryan played for the Detroit Lions for several years. He's been a study of real estate. He's been in the real estate game for three years now. And in that short time, he's built quite the portfolio. It's very diversified. It's fun to hear his story and see how he's kind of built out.

And Brandon said this earlier. This is something that anybody can do. Anybody can really kind of get into this and follow that path. You just have to plan it, put together your blueprint and do it. So stay tuned. Ryan's great. and he's got a great story. I just don't throw this out there before you bring him in.

A lot of people are probably thinking, oh, NFL player coming in with all this money, just going to buy a bunch of properties for cash and be good with it. You know, like, that's actually not the story as you'll hear. He uses creative financing on almost everything. He uses partnerships and all sorts of cool stuff, you know, some really kind of advanced stuff as well that you guys will like. So, yeah, check us out. All right.

Let's bring him in. All right, Ryan, welcome to the show, man. It's great to have you. I appreciate you having me. Yeah, it should be fun. So, Ryan, tell us a little bit about yourself. I mean, you have kind of an interesting career path that you've taken so far. Tell us a little bit about yourself and what you've been up to the last few years.

Okay. Well, I'm an athlete, football athlete. I played football at Oklahoma University, graduated in 2011. I've played with the Detroit Lions the last three years, and I am now a free agent. And I'm here today, I guess. That's awesome. That's awesome. So you've actually played in the NFL, which is something I know nothing about other than I watch the Super Bowl.

All made out of a dead pig. Okay, good. And this guy here, he's got hands, and he catches. I'm like Russell Wilson right here with my like. Called a touchdown, Brandon. Good, good. Okay, well, you know, learn something new every day. All right.

So, you know, I've got to say that, you know, the Denver Broncos, my new hometown team, are going to the Super Bowl this year. Very excited. So this comes out after the Super Bowl, right? This may come out. I'm not sure. I'm going to make a fool yourself because they're going to get. Well, we're going to win the Super Bowl.

Super Bowl. Oh, I'm sure you are. Just like a couple years ago with the Seahawks, right? I don't know about that. Yeah, listen. Same thing. That was Bull. They choked hardcore against the Seahawks that year.

You guys killed us. It was an amazing right. Right. Ryan, so, yeah, you've been in football. You've been doing this for a long time. And we have you on the Bigger Pockets podcast. Why on earth would we have you on the Bigger Pockets podcast? This is not ESPN.

This is a show about real estate. So let's get into this. So you're apparently, in the game, aren't you? I am definitely in the game. In the game for about three and a half, four years now, yeah. And you're not excited about that at all. I'm official, man.

I'm official, you know. Year three, three and a half is a lot better than year one. I'll tell you that. That is true. Let's talk about the genesis of this. Like why would you get into real estate investing? I don't know. I didn't look at the numbers.

I don't know how much you made, but you're a pro athletes. You did all right. And why would you start investing in real estate instead of letting these money managers just take all your loot and run away with it? Yeah, well, actually, when I started out, man, I was hesitant to invest in any money. You know, you hear all these horror stories. So one day I just hopped online. I was like, what do, what is the best way to build wealth? And one was real estate and then two was basically investing in the stock market.

So I picked up books on both. and I slowly started to realize I have more control over an asset, a tangible asset, like real estate, than I do with the market. So I started to dive in on both realms and really just felt that real estate was one of those things I wanted to go full time with when my playing days are over. So now being a free agent, I do have more time to spend. I have aspirations to make it back to the NFL. But real estate just has my pride in joy. I love structure. I love being able to dictate some things here and there.

and I love the creative financing side to it as well. So I feel like I'm just starting out, but there's so much information to just continue to grow and build your foundation. And it's just exciting, man. That's cool. Emmett Smith's got a big old real estate company, doesn't he? I've heard that.

I've heard that. I didn't know that. Yeah. Roger Stalback, quarterback as well, had something going too. He does. Yeah, Starback did really, really well. Interesting. Yeah.

All right. So you'll be the third big name in real estate, right? That's cool. Right, man, I'm trying, yeah. What I like about what you said there was that, like, I mean, because a lot of guys do that, they search online for, like, how to build wealth. And people typically come to one of two or maybe three conclusions that it's either business, stocks, or real estate.

And, you know, my favorite thing about, I mean, I love real estate because, like, exactly you said, you get that control of that asset. It's not some money manager out in New York City and a skyscraper, you know, making decisions on my future. And I love that. That's cool. That's cool. So let's talk about your, I mean, very beginning.

What was your first deal? I mean, what did you buy? How'd you start this thing off? Oh, my first deal. So shortly after I got drafted, after the season was over, a friend of mine just approached him was like, hey, you know, real estate's a good thing. My family's in the real estate. And right before that, I actually started reading the book.

So I felt like it was a God thing that I kind of, I felt comfortable. Plus, I got approached by an idea, a good friend of mine. So we went on on our first house. It was $80,000 when we split the down payment. And then once I saw that money coming in every month, month, you know, after the mortgage and tax and insurance, all those things are paid, I was like, this is serious. This is real.

So I had another friend approached me because I'm just buzzed. I'm trying to tell everybody about it. You know, it's all season. I had nothing else to do, you know, but hang out with their wife and go to movies. But I approached some other friends of mine, and one of them actually flipped houses. So my second deal ever, I went in on the deal and made $40,000. My second go-around. So I was like, okay, this is awesome, you know?

And so bought another, a short one average. that, that was actually the only flip I've ever done. So after that, I bought another single family and then, you know, I'm up to about 40 now with another partner of mine. So it's just awesome, just the variations from how I went from point A to getting comfortable, jumping in when I wasn't comfortable, learning the traits and continue to learn now. I love that. All right. Awesome. So, you know, you're up to 40 deals. You talked about partners. You talked about the flip. I think we're going to, I think we're going to dive into all that stuff and, you know, want to really get more information.

about all of it. I want to rewind a tiny bit before we start to get into this a little bit more. Brandon and I were, we always try to come up with kind of a theme or we always, you know, there's always one thing that we really want to get from somebody when we do a show. And today's show, the thing that we had talked about is taking great income

and turning it into legacy income, which is, you know, what you're doing. And for me, you know, it's particularly interesting because you see, you know,

you're a professional athlete, You see so many professional athletes, whether it's an athlete, a musician or a movie star, and they're making huge money. A lot of people come into this. They don't have the background. They don't have the knowledge or the understanding of how to manage money, how to deal with money. So they turn to somebody else. And at the end of the day, or they don't turn to somebody else.

And they like, you know, hey, it's fun to flash and show off the money that you got. And they end up broke. You know, there's a guy I think, what was his name, M.C. Hammer? Yeah. I mean like... There's a few of them now. Yeah. Yeah.

I thought I wrote a stat the other day that said like 80% of NFL players declare bankruptcy within like three years of leaving the NFL. Have you heard that before? It's like some astounding number. Yeah, it's crazy. So there's a bad number. You got the information. Yeah, for sure.

Those are bad numbers. So a guy like you who's stopping and you're saying, all right, you know, I can't let this happen to me. I'm trying to build wealth. I'm trying to change it. Um, why, you know, was it just like, hey, I want to be smart about it or, you know, what, what makes you different because, you know, you're, you're building that wealth. You're investing in that future. Why are you any different than any of the other guys?

Well, I think, um, like you said, a lot of those guys went broke, you know, so we actually, there was a rookie symposium that the rookies go to before, but right after they get drafted by the NFL. And one of the classes was personal finance. So I'll tell you, personal finance is really what got me to real estate. So if you don't have your house, you're having, you're house in order, you don't have a budget set, you don't have saving money as a big part of your budget, then you won't be able to, in most cases, get into the real estate or asset accumulation phase. Yeah, there are other ways to get in the real estate without money. But I felt with the finance background that I had, that I needed to try to grow my wealth, you know. And so they

always talk about passive income. And I wanted to make sure with whatever lump sum of money I had when I finished planning the day, I don't know if it's first game or the first season or 10 years John wrote, I have no idea what it was. So I wanted to have a game plan in place for when that day came. And so I wanted to start to accumulate assets that will pay me even when my occupations over. So that's basically how I got to this point. That's great. I love that. And you know what I love about what you're saying is, you know, like a lot of people listen to this are like, well, I'm not an NFL player. I'm not an athlete or whatever. But the fact is, I mean, almost everybody or at least at one point in their life, everybody makes good income at some point. Maybe not like, you're not everyone's going to be a millionaire or

billionaire or whatever, Leo, but like, everybody at least can earn good money at some point in their life. And so everybody's going to have to have that question. How do I turn success now into long-term success? And I love that conversation. As I've grown in the last few years, the conversations with the friends of mine have changed from, you know, how do I save up for a car? How do I buy my first house? And now it's like, how do I make this last? Like, that's probably the number one conversation I have now with friends is how do I make this last forever? And so I think you're doing an awesome job, obviously. I mean, you're, you're jumping into it. I think it's great. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so cool. Let's, let's dive in a little bit.

We need to, I think the bigger pockets guys need to be invited to the rookie symposium next year. That's what I think. We're going to lobby for that. Yeah, we are. Yeah, it was a good time out there. We learned a lot, you know, not just about assets. We learned about just being a good gentleman and a business person and just having a good head on your shoulder. That's great. That's cool. I didn't even know they did that kind of thing. mind-tasting as well, too. Oh, nice. How to tie the tie, you know, yeah. How to show up on camera, how to behave yourself.

Yeah, without a doubt. That's cool. Don't go punching the trainer. Does that happen? Yeah, that's, you know what? I actually play with him. Blake Griffin? Nick Griffin, yeah. He's actually from Oklahoma. We played, um, A.U basketball together growing up.

Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah. Yeah, bad move, but, you know. Tough situation. Hey, it happens. he'll bounce back. Yep, for sure. All right, let's get back into this thing, Brandon.

Well, I'm wondering, so, like, how did you know to trust that guy? You know, we've had other people in the show with partners before, and I'm a big advocate for it. I love using partners. But how do you know when somebody comes to you and says, hey, I've got this good deal, or I want to work with you? How do you know you can trust that guy? Oh, well, like I said, the first person was actually my teacher and she was a lady.

But she, I tested it to begin with, you know? And then I knew enough about reading through some books and learning cash. on cash return and just some basics like that. So I knew to double check and I seeked out for people that do real estate at that point to make sure that I was getting in something that was going to pay itself off and eventually not make me lose money. So I basically, you just got to jump in the game, man. There's been situations where you feel nervous about it, but you just have to go.

I love what you said about reaching out to other people who were actually doing it. And I think for all the new people who are listening to the show, who've never done a deal, we can't press upon that enough. It's, you know, that's why bigger pockets exist. That's why we built this community. Sure, definitely. And so people can kind of come together and help each other out.

And they want to help each other out. And they're willing to help each other out. So, like, that's your best way to get out there is, like, reach out to the community and start to ask those questions, right? Without a doubt, you know, you have to definitely do that. And even if you don't know any investors, you hopefully know someone that's owned a house and has gone through the process, through the title company and gathering insurance and just to get in the game and understand

a little bit and then you grow from there. That's cool. Two things you said I want to just emphasize because they were just like right on. When I asked you about that, how do you know to trust somebody? The first thing you said was it was a relationship that you had. You know, like a lot of people just, you know, find some random guy in Craigslist. I should partner with that guy. He seems like a good option, right?

But no, you had that, you had a relationship first. So I think that's so important when you're partnering with someone. And then secondly, you said you went and learned the basics yourself. So you didn't rely on the partner just to say, this is a great deal. I think those are the two best piece of advice is if you're going to work with a partner, you've got to have the relationship and you've got to do your own homework, never rely on someone else to do it. It's like that you can't outsource your push-ups quote, which I love that quote.

You can't outsource your analysis. You got to know what you're doing at least, you know, at a basic level before you give somebody else your money. So I think that's awesome. Are you really quoting people about push-ups, man? Seriously. I'm up to like, you know, like six. And it's all.

It's all you know. Sometimes. No, actually, this true story, actually. So, like, I was working out last weekend. I tore like something to my shoulder. And now I can't do anything. So, you know, what? Yeah.

He was terrible in those five pounds. I was. I had that five pound barbell. You know, that's the heavy thing. All right. So let's get back to the deals. You know, lots of interesting stuff. Lots of interesting conversation.

Let's go back to that first deal. That was the 80. thousand dollar house you said you split the down payment and that was a buy and hold property correct yeah yeah buy and hold sorry uh my first one buying hold second was flip and the rest have been buying hold so the first deal what did that look like i mean are you and you're buying a property in ok is that 80 000 probably okay yeah and you know uh what was it like buying your first rental property what what were the anxieties that you you went through as a first time landlord I mean, what was that like?

It was a little nerve-wracking and exciting at the same time. You know, I gather a little of information. My business partner has some information. But at the end of the day, when you write the check, you know, there's no turning back. And I was just thinking, is this thing going to rent out? Am I going to be paying the mortgage? What if the faucet happens or the refrigerator? And like I said earlier, it's just one of those things that you just go in.

You know, I hear so many success stories, more success than horror. So that definitely helps. So I heard so many success stories and I was like, why can't this be me? You know, and so did our first deal. We're three years in it, no problems whatsoever in that first house, which is a blessing that I really got my career jump started. So what advice would you give to somebody who's, you know, they're like, you know, I'm close.

I keep analyzing. I keep finding properties that look good, but I'm so scared because it's scary. It doesn't matter if you're loaded or if you're poor. Yeah. It's scary to get into this. So, you know, what would you tell those people? Not to overthink it. You know, there's always going to be somebody sleeping in some house,

minus Detroit in some of the other areas. But there's not too many vacancies that you see. That's not like. I lived out there. I lived out there. You know, I loved it. I love people. But there were some abandoned buildings.

So I'm sitting here in my hometown, and there's no abandoned houses. You know, there's cars in every driveway. So I was like, what are the odds of really me not renting this place out? And yeah, a year later, I understand vacancy rates and things like that. But at that time, I was like, just kept it simple. There's no vacancy, no vacant houses, especially in this neighborhood. Let's go at it, you know. And so that was a definite learning process, but it was exciting and just not to

overthink it. And, you know, it's going to eventually work out for you if you do your homework. Yeah. I like that. I think a lot of people do overthinking if they get the analysis paralysis. And they, I mean, there's a fine line, I guess, maybe between, you know, jumping in unprepared and taking action despite not knowing everything, right? There's that fine line. And I think the way I like to explain it to people a lot is it's kind of like driving through fog.

Like you don't always know what's up ahead. You can't see a thousand feet ahead of you, but you take a step forward. Now you can see a little bit more. And you take another step and that I think is that key to action. It's just moving forward. That's how you'd be able to see more things. But if you just sit back there and looking back, man, there's a lot of fog here. You know, you're never, you're never going to see further because you're just you're stuck there. So anyway, so right on for doing that. That's the way. So right on for doing that. great. How did you guys manage? Like, do you remember, and if you, I don't know if you, again, we're not giving advice here, but do you remember, did you do an LLC? Did you do like a corporation?

Do you remember? Yeah, did an LLC. I was always told to do that. So we started with an LLC under two people and we split up to shares that way. Property management size, she actually manages the property. So we cut a deal there. So I'm up to day, just about everything that happens. But yeah, we started out with LLC. And basically, once we bought more properties, we started tucking those under the same LLC. Okay, okay. Got it. Now, is she the partner that you've done the bulk of your deals with?

Are you doing deals by yourself? Yeah, she's the one I started with first. So I bought, like I said, my first one was with her. My second one was by myself on the flip, which I held, and then I took a line of credit out on that and bought some more properties, which was awesome. And I actually got to see the process work hand in hand. So my second was the flip. Then two more with that same partner.

and then I leveraged my flip into a bulk deal with another partner of mine and we controlled 26 properties with that one. And then recently over the last eight months, I bought my first official deal out of Houston was eight single family homes. So I felt I learned through a couple of partners that were in the game well before I was, understood how it worked. and now I'm to the point why I'm doing my own deals. And so now I locked up that deal. That thing's been sweet. I've been excited about that. So now I am investing in a 17-unit townhome community,

not too far from my hometown. I'm actually another aspect of the real estate game. I'm bringing investors in on this deal. So I get to be the manager there with some investors. So I think that's just, it's almost like I'm just uptrending when it comes to real estate. Yeah. So I'm taking a healthy progression, I believe, and I'm excited. about the future. That sounds awesome. So let's get into the progression and that's the cool thing.

Like you can decide to get as deep as you want, right? You could say, I'm going to buy one property or that one property can parlay into, you know, I'm just going to focus on single families. But as you, you know, you get to 10, 20, whatever single families, you're like, you know, okay, I get this. I got this. I could do this with my eyes closed. I want to start, you know, upping the game. I want to get into something else. So you got into this townhome community. the eight homes in Houston and the bulk deal. I want to talk about the bulk deal. Explain what does that mean. You said you got 26 properties. How did you get them? How'd that all come about? What it looked like? So a friend of mine that knew I was into the real estate

that has owned, I want to say, he's a business friend of mine. He owned 300 single families at one time. He approached me about a deal. He potentially wanted me to get in on a deal. And I wasn't really too comfortable doing that. But he was like, you know what? I've got these single families that I need to sell for my or not single family. They're actually duplex, triplex, and fourplexes that I need to get rid of because my mother basically just wants to retire. Another friend of mine, that's a business partner of mine as well, we both went on the deal.

We used our properties for collateral. So we actually transferred his bank note from his bank into our name. So the banks knew how the assets were performing. So they were comfortable with that's collateralizing just the house instead of cash money. So that was a blessing. And it was kind of one of those things. I kind of just did it on the go, you know. And so that thing's worked out for me.

So that was basically my bulk meal. So you basically had this guy, he had tons of all these properties. And you said, I'm going to take a chunk of them. You're trying to dump them. And now all of a sudden, you went from having, how many properties did you have before that? Four at the time. So you had four properties. And in a flash of a pan, you had 30 properties.

And so divided by two, so technically 13 at that point. Oh, because they were too. Yeah, with 26es, yeah. Okay. But we controlled the whole thing. So, yes, basically I'm at 34 properties at that time. So you got all these doors from nothing to something huge. How on earth are you now managing and running that?

Because that's a huge leap, isn't it? Oh, without a doubt. You know, you have your blueprint first. So the first three single families that I bought, the teacher, the person that I started the deals with, she manages those. My second one, the person that actually flipped the house for me is managing that one. And so this bulk deal, when we got this information and we got this bulk deal together, we came to the conclusion of hiring a business manager for those deals.

So it's pretty much passive. Yes, I check the statements. Yes, I okay maintenance and things like that. But as long as the rent's paid, you know what I mean? And everything's moving for. The bank trusts me. I trusted my business partner, my property manager. We're just smooth selling at that point, you know.

So there are situations where we have to go in and replace windows, which is a pain. You know what I mean? So there's times that we have to, since we didn't use any money up front, we've got to come out of pocket, either through the cash flow that we have or from our own pocket to sustain those. Got it. Got it. Now, this business partner, are they employees of yours, are they independent contractors, or are they actually partners in bed on the deals with you?

You mean the business manager? What about it? The manager. The person managing the other deals. Yeah, no, they only, yeah, on the bulk deal, they have their own property management company. Okay. We, yeah, we interviewed a few property management companies in the area and since my guy,

my business partner was in the business, he knew and trusted this company. Okay. So it's an outside property management friend. Yes, yes, yes. Got it, got it. I want to get to the point where I can potentially manage them, but at the end of the day, I'm looking for the passive bid come, you know. Yeah.

Well, that's not a bad thing. You know, a lot of guys, you know, spent, like myself, was spent years managing our own properties and you eventually graduate to hiring somebody, you just skip the whole beginning phase, which is awesome and went right to hiring somebody else to do it. I wasn't full time in it. I was still playing football. So there was no way. Now, yeah, I could save some money if I managed them all by myself.

But I mean, I'd have to go get all the materials and learn some YouTube videos or whatnot to make it happen. Yeah. And I don't think you have to, you know, like there's so many ways to invest in real estate. Some guys just love doing their own work. And some guys have to do it because they have no money. so their hustle and their repair and their management is how they buy the property. But if you don't have to do it, I mean, we don't get into real estate to go and manage tenants

and install carpet. Like that's just not a doubt. Yeah. Yeah. And in your blueprint, you definitely want to sell whatever it may be that's going to be hit your bottom line in which my property management company, I'll be to put six, eight, or 10% of wherever it may be into my bottom line taxes and insurance. So I will know, okay, what's happening?

Can I sustain a hit even with using this property management company? or do I want to sleep in nine and have not to have someone called me. Yeah. So I think there's just different ways to maneuver it. Yeah, that's awesome. Cool. All right. So let's move on from those,

the beginning deals with all the duplexes that you got there. Next, I think you said you bought eight homes in Houston now that that's recent, right? So how did those come out? How did you end up getting those? So I was, this was actually this past off season. I want to say it was January,

maybe January of last year. I was actually lived in Dallas. And I was looking in downtown Dallas area for apartment buildings. I just wanted to structure 15 to 20 units. And in that price point in downtown with so much competition, I was winged out. I was basically stuck on a 1960 property that needed foundation work or a ceiling. So my realtor that I worked with in the past brought up these homes in Oklahoma City, not Oklahoma City, in Houston.

So I analyzed that deal. I got to actually talk to the guy that owns the deal. and what put the icing on the cake there is he had, I think he was selling maybe 25 properties in a hedge fund company, not sure which one came in and bought maybe 15, 20 of them. So I was like, okay, if they're buying from this guy, I'm going to get company. You know what I mean?

My numbers work well. These hedge funds are coming and snatching these things up. My relatives are on the number. I'm not too familiar with the area, but I know the numbers work. I had made a trip out there to actually check over the properties. And so I was in that deal. So I think the way I structure my business at that point was in Oklahoma,

I'm not going to get as much appreciation as I would in a Houston. So I feel like I have a balance with my financial background that I need to hit different areas, attack cash flow in some areas, attack appreciation in some areas. So it kind of rounds things out. So that was my biggest push to make that one happen, get more income, appreciation. I felt good about the deal. And I guess I keep saying, and now I'm here. I think that's smart, the well-rounded portfolio, right?

Like some people choose just cash flow, some choose more of an appreciating market. And I don't think it's a bad idea at all, do what you did to kind of leverage. I'm trying to do the same thing right now myself, to get a mixture of both. Because then you have the fallback on the cash flow if you need it. You get the appreciation, the benefit for growing wealth that way. That's great. So you mentioned the financial background. Was that, were you a business student undergrad?

Is that what we're talking about? What are we talking about? Yeah, when I told you, we did the rookie symposium, and then after that, I just looked up how to build assets. So at that point, it just came down to real estate and the stock market. You just mentioned, you know, like you did the symposium thing. You learned a lot about personal finances, how to researching it and budgeting and all that.

This is just maybe my opinion. But when I see a lot of celebrity athletes or just, you know, people who make a lot of money suddenly or just good income, I mean, it could be anything, right? A lot of them don't live within their means. I mean, a lot of people just, they buy the most expensive car, the most expensive house and whatever else like that. And again, like, it could be anybody that just suddenly finds themselves making more than

it did before. How did you prevent against that? Like, how did you have the willpower to say, I'm not going to go buy a $300,000 car? Maybe you did, I don't know. But, you know, you know what I mean? Like, how do you not go and spend everything you have right away? I think I got to the point where I understood financial independence. I wanted to get to the point where my cash flow or the cash that I have can sustain me for a certain amount of time.

So if I were to make a million dollars a year and spend a million, can I retire next year? No. So that I started thinking about these numbers, what will it take for me to get to whatever I'm spending to be financially free? So I can do real estate full-time or whatever it may be without the pressures. So that was really the biggest thing that stuck to me. I knew I didn't want to work until I was 65 years old, you know. So I want to try to speed up the process and obviously you buy assets, whether it's paper assets or it's tangible physical asset that will help catapult me to that point

and get income. So I could be free at that point. That's smart. Do you ever find yourself like, are you like an evangelist for this like when you're playing with your team members and stuff? He totally is. He's got the fuck, man. When we brought him on, man, he had that grin from ear to eat.

You're so excited to talk about real estate. I know it, right? Yeah, I love it. I'm always been like a teacher leader type person, you know, so if I grasp some idea, I definitely try to show the wealth. You know, I didn't get to this point by just waking up one day. People had to urge me to better myself, and I feel like that's my calling. So we'll get to the deal that I'm doing now that actually opened up to investors. Some investors that may have never been able to do that, but they've heard about my successes, business-wise, or even on the field, and they look up to me as an athlete. So I get to open the doors for other people to be inspired. So I think that's my mission to this day. Did you know, you can go on vacation and actually earn money?

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cheaper than learning the hard way. All right, rental property investors, listen up. Our friends at Dominion Financial already have some of the best DSCR rates in the industry. Now they're the fastest, too. They just launched 10-day DSCR closing. That's right, 10 days. And they're still the only lender with the DSCR price beat guarantee. That means faster closing, the best terms, zero guesswork, That's Dominion Financial. Check them out at biggerpockets.com slash dominion. Again, that's biggerpockets.com slash dominion. Yeah, nice. Cool. Nice. I want to go to the blueprint. You mentioned it a few times. You talked about your blueprint. What is your blueprint? You've got a plan. And I'm just curious, what exactly that is. I feel like it's always evolving, to be honest, man.

After my first house, I'm thinking, okay, what do I need to get to 10 houses? And I thought I was going to be done at 10 houses, you know? So I think mobile blueprint is just to be financially free, you know, to have enough cash flow and assets and sustain my lifestyle with my wife and my little boy that's seven months old now. So in the legal legacy for him. So I'm sure at my age right now, I may be greedy and trying to build my foundation as fast as possible. And then there's going to be times where I want to just sit back and be able to enjoy life. So I feel like I'm on pace to do both of those things. So I'm going to break something to you.

I don't know if you knew this or not, but you're not going to stop at the point where you're financially free. I could see it in you. You got the... Well, obviously, yeah, I'm already there. God willing, God blessing. Right, right.

But it's fun now. It's a game to me. And like I said, I get to open up this next deal for people that may not be able to do something like this. So I can only imagine where the next 10 years are going to take me. So let's talk about that. because we've talked to a lot of people who've gotten to that point. You get to the line where, yeah, you're done.

You got to what you wanted to do initially, which is get enough assets, real estate that you're fine. You're going to be fine. But then you keep going. And so you keep going. You said it's a game to you. It's fun to you. And that's really cool.

There's that transition. You get so much joy out of kind of working real estate and being creative and coming up with ideas. you know, can you talk a little bit more about like that transition? Because there had to be a point in your mind where you're like, yeah, okay, we're good. I'm not stopping. I am not stopping. And I don't think it's a greed thing, right?

No, it's fun. It's an occupation. We all need to stay busy. It doesn't matter if you're, I don't know, say a guy that has a hundred million dollars at St. Mark Zuckerberg at whatever age he is. You know, if he enjoys what he does, he's going to continue to do it and then anything that comes is a blessing. So that's really where I am today. And real estate, there's multiple ways to do it. And I'm a passive investor. I want to get into the flips next. I want to learn how contractors

build and developers do their thing. And I want to get into some of those things as I progress. So there's so many different assets or facets to real estate. I don't think at this point that I'm done exploring those things. So that's really what keeps me going. That's cool. That's what I love about real estate too is you can just keep exploring your whole life. I mean, there's guys that are 80, 90 years old on bigger pockets in the forums, and they're still discovering new things all the time. It's fun. I love that stuff. I just had a guy contact me yesterday about investing in lake homes. And I was like, I've never thought about investing in a lake home. And I was like, if there's a market there, there's a market there. But there's so many ways I can't even think of ways to invest in the game, you know? I call it a game. I'm an athlete, so sorry. No, I call it a game too. I mean, it's a game.

Yeah. I haven't called that since like a monopoly. Like, it's like a giant game of monopoly and I love that. Yeah, you try to go get the best deal and your heart's counting, you know? Yeah. That's what it is. All right, so let's talk about the 17-unit townhome community. Why did you decide to build a 17-unit townhome community?

Yeah, well, I think I got a unique perspective. So I was telling you guys that I was looking in Oakland, not Oklahoma. I was looking in Dallas for an apartment building. Yep. And I was actually priced out of there. And so when I got to Oklahoma, I moved back to Oklahoma, hometown. I was with the relative I've worked with for a couple of year or a year now, brought me this deal that has not hit the market yet.

He knew I was in the market to buy 15 to 20 units. So he sent me this deal. He sent me a couple deals, actually. I found the one that I like, which was going to be a new build. And I was thinking, you know what, I've got buildings that are 19, from 1970, I got some 1980s. Let's throw in one that I know I can buy and hold for. longer before the cycle is start to turn and I have to sell. And so a new bill was fit the portfolio

for me. Um, so I initially went into that deal, worked the numbers, talked to the builders, the contractors, the architects, um, basically everything I need to know about the deal. It felt so good, what you does to this day. Um, then I was thinking, you know what? Am I greedy here? Do I really need this? Yes, it's a learning process, but what better way to bring other people along on a new build, following someone that has a resume, not that I'm Donald Trump or who can offend anybody, but you know what I mean? Some people that may look up to me. I was like, what better time to start on a new build where you know there's not going to be maintenance fees?

There's not, I mean, it's going to be all these things that are just uncertain. Why not open the doors for this one? So I actually open the doors. I'm actually on social media at that. And I've raised some money a lot more than I thought I would at this point. So it's just going to be fun. I got to talk to those guys. I'm like I said, I'm a leader, I'm a teacher.

So I get to think about what I'm going to present to these investors so they can understand the game. And they're asking me questions, questions I haven't thought about since my first home. So it keeps me sharp as well. Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. I think it's solid. I mean, I've never really considered building.

But I like the idea of that, you know, kind of diversifying your real estate into something, like, why not? If you got old stuff, why not build a few new things? So when you bought it, did you buy just a piece of land? or did you buy like the land with the plans already in the development kind of planned together? It was basically, I wouldn't say it was turnkey, but they already had the land plotted. And they were in the aspect of, I guess, getting titles and still finishing the buildouts

and things like that. So I kind of went into the process that was already going. So I got to negotiate a deal before it hit the market. But basically the four plans were already said. I got to go in and fix the buildouts and things like that. but the location was already set. So it was kind of turnkey, but I'm still going through the process of learning

what it takes to be a builder and then out on top of that, bringing in investors. Yeah. So could we talk about that structuring and how you ended up actually doing that? So you're coming in. What are this, what's the cost on this project?

1.85 million. 185. And you said, I'm going to put in X amount of that 185. and I want to raise a million, a million and a half, whatever it is that you raise. How do you now then go and structure the entity such that, you know, you can go and actually raise this money and not fall under, you know, there's all sorts of laws that, you know. Without a doubt, yeah, and I'm slowly starting to learn this.

So the buildings, we won't close until about September of this year. So I'm about three months in it. No, the only money I have in is my earnest money. So I'm still going through those contract phases with my accountant, my lawyer as well, to make sure that we have the best plan in place. And I know there's things that you can put on a contract and you can't. So I'm learning that as we go. But I am still keeping the investors up to date that have given me a commitment to go forward.

But like I said before, my whole purpose on the deal to begin with was me going in by myself. So now whatever comes to the table is just more than merrier. So there's really no pressure of, is this deal going to make it to the closing day? Am I going to have enough money? I'm already to the point where whatever comes in, it's basically just going to benefit the whole group. Right on. Is that like somebody stepping on your dog, Brandon? Or is that Ryan's baby squeezing a plate-to-a?

Oh, sorry. That's all good. It's all good. Charlie, come here. Yeah, I actually got my dogs in here with me, but they're both sleeping. Yeah, they're fine. Yeah, one of the guys having a good time over there. That's good. That's good.

Well, hey, I want to move to the fire round here in a second, but before we do, I want to ask you, you know, what's the long-term plan? I mean, like, you said, you know, this is a game that you're playing and you're not going to stop right now. Like, do you have a unit number you want to achieve? You have a goal for, like, I want 100 units or 1,000 units. Or do you just, you know, I'm going to see where it goes? Yeah, well, just like I said, my goal was 10. and I clicked to that pretty quick. So then I was reading some articles, and I felt 100 was a good landmark.

But I think after this next deal I go into, I may look on the commercial side, just to diversify a little bit more as well. But I think my bread and butter will be the residential homes. But I can't really give you a number because I'm already to the point where I think if I just continue to extend myself, there's going to be a point of no return. So what I have right now, I feel like I have. I can continue to leverage those things moving forward. So whatever happens, if I'm going to go and hunt the best deals,

and if I don't get the best deals, these next go around, I'm not going to take them because I'm already where I need to be. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. You don't want to overextend yourself. Without a doubt. Yeah. Cool.

Cool. And I think I'm pretty good. It sounds like a really cool story. I mean, for me, I love the passion. You know, every time you're talking, you're glowing for those people who are listening. you know, if you watch the YouTube video, I mean, you can just see that this guy's face light up.

It's, that's sheer joy. I'm always smartly, man. Life is good. You know, you might as much to take it, really, you know. I'm honored to be on bigger pockets with you guys, reading your articles. It's an honor to be honest. I'm just all smiles right now.

That's awesome. That's awesome. All right. So let's move to the fire round. It's time for the fire round. All right, the fire round. Let's go to that. These questions come direct out of the bigger pockets forums. And so we're going to fire a match you, Ryan. You ready for this? Let's do it. All right. Here we go. Number one, I'm nervous to jump into real estate. I've been

spinning my wheels for years. How do I finally pull the trigger? Pull the trigger. That's simple. If you feel good about the game plan and you feel good about moving in that direction, you pull the trigger and see what happens and you'll learn to go. I like it. Fair enough. All right. Should I buy or flip a rental for my first deal? Should I flip or buy a rental? What did I say? Buy or flip a rental? Oh, yeah, whatever. You know, close enough. Should I personally, I buy, I think you should buy the first one. But if you have a group that you trust around you to flip a property, go ahead and flip it. but that wasn't my thought press moving forward.

I was too nervous to actually go in and that type of magnitude. But to each his own. There you go. Number three, my property manager is not communicating very well with me. How do I get them to communicate better? I think if they mess up one time, you give them one more. If you call the phone, that's one thing that I've learned with property managers. If they do not answer the phone or call me back within 24 hours, I think it's time to move on.

especially if you have a hunch about something not working right or something not going right. I think it's, there's multiple out there. So I think it's the best to move on. Except, of course, if you live in Potent, Washington where Brandon is, where he is now managing. There's a market there. Go ahead and start a new one. I know. I really need to.

I need to. For sure, for sure. All right. Last question from the fire round. Should I pay off my primary home that I live in or use the money to buy some more properties, leverage it? I think depending on your age, the younger you are, I believe you should not pay off your mortgage to go and hold more assets that will eventually pay for your mortgage. But I think as you age, you probably don't want to play the debt game and even manage real estate or manage property managers, maybe just pay off the mortgage.

Fair enough. Good answers. All right. Awesome. Let's move on and wrap this thing up with the world famous. Famous for All right Famous for These questions are asked Of every guest

Every week And so you've probably heard them before But I'm going to throw them at you Number one What is your favorite Real Estate related book Risk Pat Porte

All right All right That's got to be a staple right It is It's a staple Yeah For sure For sure

All right Business book You got any business books That you've been reading Anything of interest Ah You know I always revert back

To investing for dummies So I don't know If it's really on the Outside of the Stock market, but like I said, I'm a stock market and real estate guy. There's really two things that I pay attention to. But investing for dummies. I feel like that's got many bullet points. I'm not really much of a fluff guy story guy. I like this bullet points. So investing for dummies. Cool. Cool. All right, what do you do for fun? You got a kid.

What are you doing besides? Yeah, I got a seven-month-old, me and my wife, we're always hanging out, having a good time. We usually go on daily walks. We've got a part right down the street from us, and we actually have good friends in the neighborhood that we get to go hang out, eat dinner, make taco night, whatever it may be, and working out. That sounds good. Taco night, that sounds good. Taco night's awesome, yeah. It's Monday night.

Hey, Heather, we should have taco night. That's awesome. And I was just going to say, you are currently a free agent, correct? I am. All right, so who do you want to play for? I just want to go out there and run around and catching balls, man. I get this question all the time. Maybe four years ago, I'd say I want to play with Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.

But now I just want to go on and enjoy the game. We could use you in the Seahawks. So, you know, come on over. Whoever, if a quarterback can throw, I'm there. I'm there. Pretty much all of them can. We're all listening to the show right. Every one of them. Just name drop.

And, you know, Russell Wilson. Sorry. Yeah, right. I play with Sam Bradford. He's at the Eagles now. I would love to go play with my guy again. Landry Jones at the Steelers. Love to play with my guy again.

We've got chemistry, you know. So we'll see. There's 32. I know, right? Yeah, there's 32 teams out there, you know, and I hope some guys are vouching for me, just like that. Nice, nice. All right.

My last question of the day from me, what do you believe sets apart successful real estate investors from those who give up, fail, or never get started? I think you have to have a blueprint. You have to have a plan going in from day one. And those things will change, but I think any successful business, they have bullet points that they want to follow, checklist that they want to improve on. And I have daily checklist. I show you my office.

It's all over the place. And I go down the list every day. So I think people that do not have a plan will get lost and they might dabble in other areas. But if you have a goal in mind, say, for instance, 10 homes, how do I get to those 10 homes? And am I doing something every day that will get to the point? But I think the guys that are halfway in, halfway out, those are the ones that potentially won't make it. Because if you want to be successful in this world, you have to put in time. Awesome. That is a great answer.

All right. So where can people find out more about you? Obviously, they can look you up. But like, you know, if people want to reach out with you, potentially, you know, want to ask you questions or do business or anything like that. Do you have a website or anything? I do have a website. It's the Ryan L. as in Larry, Broil. broil's.com website. You can find me on there. There's actually a link at the top where you can shoot me an email.

I'm on Twitter at Ryan Broils and on Facebook at Ryan Broils. So that's the best way to get a hold of me. I'm going to go follow you on Twitter right now. And, you know, of course, you're on bigger pockets. I'm following bigger pockets. Better believe that.

We just need to get you to set up a profile, no pressure or anything. You know what? The funny thing is... I'm going to call you out right here. No, no, check me out. The funny thing is, Maybe a couple days before I got approached through you all on Twitter to do this.

I saw in the bigger pockets you could log in and potentially get on a podcast. So I actually filled out that information. Two days later, I get hooked up with, who was that, Hillary? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, on Twitter. That's funny. It sounds like a double whammy, yeah. That's awesome.

Well, so I saw, I think you wrote something or there was something on Twitter. There was something that I saw from you. and it was you like sharing how excited you were about real estate. And I saw that and I was like, all right, we got to have this guy. Like this guy's got such passion. So we got to reach out to him and find out and Hillary got you. And, you know, sounded like that worked out. And I definitely follow you guys.

Sometimes I'll just throw in like random real estate questions and bigger pockets pops up. So that's actually how I learned about bigger pockets about three years ago. I typed in a question and it's bigger pocket. You guys have so much substance. So that's really a one-stop shot for sure. I appreciate that. I love it. Hey, so anybody listening, this is Ryan Broil's BiggerPockets podcast Show 161.

Check out the show notes at biggerpockets.com slash show 161. I'm going to put up a challenge to Ryan. If anyone has questions, Ryan, jump in, answer those questions on the show notes. I know you're passionate. Thank you so much for coming on and giving us your time. and the last thing is keep doing what you do, like talking about real estate, educating the people that, you know, that's our mission.

We want everybody to know that this is a possibility for them. It doesn't matter who you are, what background you come from. You know, using real estate as a means to build wealth is so powerful. And the more we can spread the word to everybody, the more opportunity people have. Yeah, definitely. You know, it's surprising how many people don't understand the game. It's surprising how many homeowners just stay at one home, you know. It's surprising that

some people don't live on a budget. It's surprising that people don't understand passive income. There's a lot of thing about financial literacy that a lot of people don't understand. So I think once those people start to understand those, then these next challenges of mastering real estate per se will be the next wave of things to do. So it's really, it's really awesome what you guys do spreading the word as well, making people feel comfortable. So glad to be a part of it. Thank you. Thanks for coming on the show. All right. Thank you very much. I'll see you.

All right. That was Show 161 of the Bigger Pockets podcast. Big thanks again to Ryan. I love his story. I'm fired up. I'm fired up. I love that he's a fan of Bigger Pockets. I love that.

That fires me up. I love that he's out there spreading the gospel of real estate investing to anybody and everybody, and he's so enthusiastic about it. It's, that was fun. Yeah, it was fun. And, you know, like I said, we said at the beginning of the show, you don't have to be an NFL player. You don't have to be a professional athlete or movie star or whatever, you know, to enjoy the show. Because everything he talked about is stuff that real people, like everybody listening can apply to their life. So hopefully you guys do that. Take action on some stuff. He said, pull that trigger like he said and just go do something. Walk through that fog. Yeah, and be smart. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, he said, I need to be smart with my money. I'm going to budget. You know, I'm going to look at how much I make, how much I spend. And, you know, figure out what I need to do in order to cover that through real estate. And that is what you need to be doing. If you're trying to build wealth through real estate or you're trying to use real estate as a means to supplement your wealth,

a lot of people say, well, how do I get started? You know, don't even start in real estate. Start with your budget. Yeah. You know, what is it? And what are you spending? How many Starbucks are you buying a week? But, you know, what are you at now, Brandon?

I've met like one a week now. I am cutting back. That's impressive. But only because the peppermint hot chocolate has like 40,000 calories. So I'm trying to... That thing is ridiculous. You know, like I said, the beginning of show, it's tough work getting sexy, you know? Right.

Yeah. Let's not go there ever again. Don't want me take on my shirt? No, you don't want that. Yeah, please don't. All right, let's get out of here. I've been in a hotel room with you, man. It's not pretty.

It's scary and smells bad. Okay. On that note, guys, jump on biggerpockets.com, set up an account. make sure you're reading the blog, make sure you listen to the podcast. Tell anybody, tell everybody to check us out. Please spread the word of Bigger Pocket, spread the word of real estate and get out there and make it happen. Thank you so much for listening. I am Josh Dorkin. Sign it off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the height, you're in the right place.

Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K. Copywriting is by Calico content.

And editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.w.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk. So use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results.

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