BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 199: 25 Doors by Age 25 with Houssein Al-Eidan

Episode Date: November 3, 2016

Real estate investing is no longer just for older generations! Today on the BiggerPockets Podcast, we sit down with Houssein Al-Eidan, an accountant from the St Louis area who has purchased 25 rental units — and he’s just turning 25 years old this month! You’ll hear Houssein’s unique strategy of buying lower-price properties (many from auctions) and using a variety of strategies to increase his returns (including AirBnB and even leaving some properties vacant!). This show is bound to leave you inspired to expand your own real estate portfolio — no matter what age you are. In This Episode We Cover: How Houssein found BiggerPockets How he relocated from Kuwait to St. Louis (and why) How he discovered real estate through TV shows What his first deal was like How he dealt with a complicated foreclosed property with an existing tenant The total number of deals he’ve done so far in the past year How his numbers look for his condo units What his game plan is after buying so much property How he funds these properties through seller financing The importance of understanding the seller’s motivation Tips on Airbnb properties How be built a team for delegation A word of caution in this type of investing And SO much more! Links from the Show Scott’s Twitter Account BiggerPockets Jobs Flip or Flop BiggerPockets Podcast on Youtube Auction.com Zillow Books Mentioned in this Show The Book on Investing with Low or No Money Down by Brandon Turner The Effortless Empire by Chris Gray How to Win Friends & Influence People by Dale Carnegie Tweetable Topics: “The first purchase may not be always be the best.” (Tweet This!) “Once you understand the seller’s motivation, from there you can customize a plan.” (Tweet This!) Connect with Houssein Houssein’s BiggerPockets Profile Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show, 199. So I literally started last May of 2015, so a little over a year now. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com. your home for real estate investing online. What's going on, everybody? This is Josh Dorkin.

Host to the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, Mr. Brandon Turner. Hey, how's it going? You didn't say what's up. So it was like weird. I didn't know if I should talk or, you know. No, you're all, man. You can't change things up on show 199 of the podcast. It's all the big experiment.

This is 190. Wow, 199. Look at that. This is 199. That's pretty cool. You know, in the world of podcast. and we're like old geysers. It's awesome. Speak for yourself, my friend.

Speak for yourself. Well, what have you been up to? I know you're in a co-working space now because the asbestos thing is still going on. We are, we are. And I apologize in advance to folks for my personal sound quality during the show. I had to record with a little iPhone headset.

Yeah, but it's great, man. The co-work space is good. We're working out of this space. I'm stuck in a room with Scott Trench here at Bigger Pockets, which is an unfortunate situation. for me. But yeah, actually Scott's Twitter is Scott at BP, I think it is. What is it? Scott at BP is his Twitter account. Scott is sitting next to me with a pair of crutches and a busted up foot. So can

everybody please jump on Twitter and send some well wishes to Scott for his injured foot? For those of you watching the YouTube video, he's got his foot up in my face. But you guys leave Scott a tweet. Scott's an integral member here at Bigger Pockets and we all feel bad. So give him a big Oh, on Twitter. True story. Scott Trench actually found, you know, began working here at Bigger Pockets because of the Bigger Pockets podcast. They actually listen to our show and coming on.

So if you are listening to the show and you're like, you know, it would be a lot of fun to work with Josh Dorkin, which I don't know who says that. But if you are like that and you are looking for a job, go to biggerpockets.com slash jobs and there are some jobs there. And that is your quick tip for today. Nice, nice. Really quickly, you ask me how things are going. Things are great.

I mean, you know, it's been chaotic. It's been nutty. As we talked about last show, we're in this co-work space. Somebody burglarized our former office that we can't access due to asbestos. That was probably Scott trench. Well, it was in a tent. How did he hurt his foot? Wait, did you hurt your foot, Scott? Well, burglarizing. What? I think we just discovered a mystery. We solved a mystery here on the podcast. I think the odds of that are so close to zero. It's not even funny. Anyway. Most investors spend more time chasing deals than reviewing their insurance. But a quick coverage check can be fast, easy, and one of these smartest ways to protect

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And listeners of the show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash rookie. Just go to Indeed.com slash rookie right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. That's Indeed.com slash rookie. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. All right. So we got a cool show for you guys today. Guys, this is show 199 of the Bigger Pockets podcast. You can check out the show notes at biggerpockets.com slash show 199. That's BiggerPockets.com slash show 199. And of course, if you are not yet a subscribe please do subscribe to us on iTunes Stitch or SoundCloud, wherever else you prefer to listen to the show.

Leave us a rating and review. That certainly helps us in the rankings. All right, man, we've got a great guest today. Let's do this. All right. All right. Today's guest, guys, is Hussein El-Aidan. Hussein is a 25-year-old real estate investor who has already cobbled together 25 units. Quite an impressive feat. It is. It is. And he's doing it. Obviously, a little bit of different strategy than maybe you or I did. But it's interesting just to hear how other people, you know, in different parts of the country, with different backgrounds, how they build their businesses.

You guys will love this interview with Hussein today. So listen up. That's great. Let's bring him on. Let's get to the show and let's see what he's all about. All right, Hussein, welcome to the show, man. It's good to have you here. Glad to be here.

Thanks for the opportunity. Yeah. Yeah, this should be fun. And I know you've listened to a lot of episodes of the show. So can you tell us real quickly, how did you find bigger pockets? I'm curious. So I'm big on, you know, one of my learning forms is, is visual. So I love watching videos. And one of the first things that I ran into was a show called

Flip and Flop, which kind of really inspired me. And then from there, I really searched, you know, YouTube kind of seeing where can I still get, you know, that content, either from an audio source or a video source. And that's when I stumbled across literally bigger pocket podcast. And ever since, you know, I've been listening to them, you know, nonstop. So it's definitely a great source of learning. I have to admit, I did stage that question in here because I wanted you to say that. So I could remind our listeners that you can also watch these videos on YouTube. We put every podcast episode on YouTube. So you like that? Yeah, you like that? Yeah, you like that. Hey, who's saying? All right. So I, you're in, you're in the St. Louis market.

Josh, didn't you live there for a while? That was, that was, I went to school there. You invested there and you were, yeah, yeah, that was that was a lot of you. I invested there without St. Louis, there would be no bigger pockets. But yeah, man, so let's talk about how you got started. I know you worked for like Big Four accounting firm. Like, why would somebody like that get into real estate? I mean, it seems like a good, good job, good way to kind of make a living. How'd you get this thing going? Yeah, so essentially, you know, just some background. So I actually grew up in Kuwait, you know, made my way over to St. Louis from a school that had an affiliation with. And so, you know. You came from Kuwait and you said, I could go anywhere in America.

And I'm going to go to St. Louis. What the hell is wrong with you? Yeah, so that's a great question. And, you know, life takes you an interesting path. And for some reason, right now, I gravitated towards St. Louis. And it kind of kept me here for a greater cause. So, yeah, so the school that I went to, so I did my freshman year and sophomore years at a school that I went to in Kuwait. And they actually had an affiliation with the University of Missouri, St. Louis.

And so transferring over to St. Louis made more sense. And then so from there, I got my, you know, bachelor's, master's and in accounting, and finally my CPA. And, you know, from the get go, I really wanted to work in Big Four accounting as a auditor. You know, that's what I'm doing now. And, you know, after learning about different types of investments and different vehicles, I really wanted to, I knew that, you know, just working when necessarily. be enough to kind of sustain a longer-term wealth plan and as far as being able to provide for

yourself and your family, you know, beyond just a regular salary. And so I looked into stocks and different types of investments. And for the most part, it wasn't, you know, what I was looking for. And one day, I was sitting down with a friend and we watched a few shows on flip and flop. And I was just really inspired by the concept of being able to use real estate as a vehicle to kind of drive long-term wealth. And a lot of times the shows portray great profits. And obviously a lot of times that may not be the case. But it definitely got me thinking. And then from there, I went into looking into the St. Louis market, looking into ways I could get involved.

That's awesome. I was actually just watching an episode of Flip and Flop yesterday. and they made $189,000 on a flip. And I was like, well, I mean, that's the number that they put out there anyway. Who knows how many expenses they had. But like, I was just like, man, like, I need to get flipping in Southern California or something. Because I'm like, I made 20 grand on a flip and I'm like, woo-hoo. So like, but that said, learning from those shows, whether they're realistic or not,

and people argue that point all day, they are extremely effective for inspiring people to jump into real estate. I mean, that's why I'm in this. Yeah, inspiration is up fantastic. And so, I mean, I, again, I did the same thing as you did it. We were inspired by that and jumped in. So why do we talk about, go ahead. Potentially dangerous, right? I mean, you know, some people jump in without knowledge.

Well, a lot of the shows don't give you all the details. They don't tell you a lot. And so people jump in not really knowing what they need to know what they don't need to know. I will say, I was impressed yesterday when I was watching the show. They actually did say, you know, they were like, well, these are what the comps are, which I said they did a pretty good job of explaining that. And then they said, you know, with sales expenses and closing costs and the realtor fees, this is how much profit will make. And I was like, oh, they actually included, like the old flipping shows never did that.

They were just like, we bought it for 500,000. We sold it for 700,000. We made $200,000. It was like, no, you didn't. You know, like, but this one was all right. Absolutely. And I think the biggest takeaway from these shows, as realistic as they could be or unrealistic, they could be, you know, and listening to the bigger pockets podcast, you start recognizing patterns and trends. And those are the type of scenarios that you want to constantly look into.

And then from there, you'll be able to build that confidence as far as saying, okay, this is what you do when you encounter this situation or if you encounter a similar situation. You kind of seen it before. You've heard it before. And so it helps you make better decisions. Yeah, for sure. Well, so what was your first deal then? How did you, what did that very first thing look like?

So, yeah. So essentially from there, you know, auctions is a big source. of what flip and flop use as far as finding deals. Sometimes they're on the MLS, but a lot of times they'll go to live auctions. So I did a simple search. I wanted to see if there's any live auctions here in St. Louis. And so after doing a simple Google search, I stumbled across a website called auction.com.

And from there, kind of wanted to see what is in the St. Louis market. And literally searched the area of St. Louis and came across a whole bunch of houses. And to my advantage, you know, houses here in the St. Louis market are relatively cheaper than in other areas. And so it was kind of a low risk, high reward opportunity. And so the first deal was literally, I think I bought it for, it's like a duplex for less than five, you know, less than $5,000, but required at least, you know, 50 to 60. But this is one where, you know, it was a nightmare purchase in the sense of everything that goes wrong in a house. this house has. I'm talking about, you know, mold. I'm talking about, you know, when it rains, there's water coming in from the back wall because the tuck pointing was poor. It was kind of a scary first purchase, given that, you know, sight on scene. But at the same time, now that I'm a lot more experienced and seeing a lot more scenarios and going back to that house, there's a better plan moving forward as to how to get it to completion. And then, you know, similarly, there was a

similar purchase that I performed in which it was a condo. And luckily, once again, it was a condo that was purchased ultimately for $20,000. And it was actually, most of the properties on auction.com are foreclosures. But this condo specifically still had the original tenant in there. And so I had to learn quickly about, you know, the eviction process and how we could best proceed. And to my, to my of luck the after you know the tenant that was living there wanted to we went to court he actually wanted to renew and so all the sudden you know that person just paid rent right off the bat versus you know having to go in and rehab it and incur all those expenses so it was really a one-win situation given that you know you're paying a minimal amount compared to you know other purchases that you get

and still get those competitive rates you know in which you know right now it's close to So when you think of rates of return, it's probably one of my best investments opportunities that I was able to pursue. Now, was that, when you say the tenant was there, was that like, was it the actual owner who got foreclosed on and then they turned to a tenant because the eviction, I mean, the whole foreclosure process, or was he an actual tenant living there before? Yeah, good question. And just to clarify that, yeah, so when I meant by tenant, he was actually the owner.

Okay. And in turn turned into a tenant. And that worked out for it because I've heard horror stories. Is that not working out, but that worked out for you? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it was someone, he was very well-intued in the area. He works in the area. And so he was the type of person that wants to stick to where he lived.

And it was just a win-win situation where he was okay and able to pay. And so we just came to an agreement that we would just start a lease and work with him on that. Okay. Hey, Christine, so that second purchase, that condo became a rental. The first one, which you also picked up at the auction, did you flip that? What did you end up doing with that and what did the numbers look like? So with that one, you know, when I first started, you know, I tried to, that was my first purchase. And as you guys probably have been through and listened to different people talk about, the first purchase may not be always the most ideal.

And so that's where I really took a lot of hard lessons as far as trying to understand, okay, how can I get this thing going? Am I going to hire a well-known company that knows how to read? have properties. Am I going to go with someone on Craigslist? Am I going to go on referral? So there was a lot of troubleshooting. And due to my lack of experience at the time, I went through a lot of experiences and trying to understand how to best approach it. And so for a while, and, you know, to this day, I kind of have it on hold simply because as I went through that condo purchase, I went through other similar purchases with condos and found a lot more success. And so kind of my strategy is if I did find a similar property,

that was really run down but still had a high return value, that was more of buy and hold and leave it when the market kind of saturates and there aren't as many good opportunities at that point, I would go back and focus on those, which there's other similar properties which I'm kind of focusing on. And my main strategy is focus on those properties that are easily or the most closest to being complete. And that way those could be quickly ready for for rental and then from there get those activated. And then when times are down and the market isn't as good or whatever the reason, maybe cash reasons or whatnot, at that point, I could focus on those.

I don't, I got most of it. I didn't really necessarily get an answer or, or, um, it sounds like you bought it for five grand and just, you just left it, right? You bought it for five grand, left it and you're going to deal with it in the future, right? Exactly. Okay, yeah, that's what I was thinking. So you bought it just from an auction for, for almost nothing. Five grand.

Yeah, that's crazy. Correct. That's awesome. Yeah. So now. It was in St. Louis, not Detroit. I mean, St. Louis is the other Detroit. But, you know.

Yeah, and that's very interesting because I know, you know, when you look at the best places to invest in, I feel like a lot of time St. Louis is, you know, underrated when it comes to that. And I feel like it's definitely very comparable to the Detroit and Cleveland market. And so with the right level of marketing, the right level of attention, investors could find a lot of success in the St. Louis market. There's a lot of opportunity. Absolutely. Have you considered just selling that duplex? I mean, like, see if you get 10 grand for somebody. You know, like somebody here on the bigger pocket podcast podcast, I want a duplex for 10 grand. You know what I mean? Like, could you just sell that thing for a little bit and make some money? Or do you think there'll be longer term profits by holding onto it and just waiting? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think, you know, I think to get a little margin off that sale, that's always an option. Really, my strategy has been always buying hold. Simply because, you know, initially obviously flip and flop, their main thing is flipping it. And with that strategy, to me, it's more like a gamel. you never know you can really profit the one time the next time you do it you may not get as much but as far as long-term benefit and rates of return it could have a tremendous success rate so let's say worst-case scenario you know

I end up rehabbing it and overall costs turn turn out to be close to 50 or 75 grand let's say less than 100 grand and I'm able to rent out both sides let's say section 8 or similar type tenants at that point the rate to return still justify it being a good purchase. That makes sense. That makes sense. So how many total deals have you done now then? So right now, 25. Really? And when did you start this? When was the first one? So I literally started last May of 2015, so a little over a year now. Wow. 25 deals your first year. Holy smoke. I mean, is that 25 units or 25 like individual properties? How many of those are multifamilies? And like, what's the kind of breakdown look like your portfolio? Sure. So that's comprised of you know, one six unit, a combination of duplexes, and then condos, and then one commercial

property are kind of the four categories, real estate types. And right now, which is actually the property that I'm staying at, which you can classify as a fifth type is house, along with six acres of lot, which is kind of a unique opportunity given the potential of what you could do with, you know, six acres. So those are kind of the five categories of properties that I've invested in so far. So what are you doing with them? So flip or flop is a show on flipping. That first property, you didn't flip and you didn't quite flop. You just got. Yes. The second the condo became rental, have you flipped or are you just doing buying holes? Yeah. So mainly, you know, really solely buy and hold. So all the condos that I have have been, you know, very successful as far as purchasing

at a lower price point, lower price point being defined as less than $25,000. And usually the cost to get those ready for rental is between $5 and $10,000. Given that I'm able to leverage some resource, you know, contractors that are usually charging cheaper rates than most, you know, typical contractors, and being able to leverage bulk buying at the respective department stores, you know, Lowe's Home Depot, and, you know, coming out with a ready product. And so the rentals are mainly rented out usually within a few months. And the single families that I have are in a similar situation. And, you know, there's some Airbnb properties as well that I'm managing.

And so the ones that are in the city, mainly rural areas, those are the duplexes that are really, you know, less than 10,000. Those are mainly just essentially waiting for the time to get those up to par as far as rehabbing them. But a lot of those that are in the rural areas, I've been mainly sitting on those. Okay, so let's get some clarification here. Condos, you're paying less than 25K for them. You're spending 5 to 10K to get those ready to rent. What are those running out for? So, you know, great question. And this is kind of the interesting point is, so luckily, these are in areas in which I've been able to rent them. And I would say higher rent desirable areas. And, you know, the one that's a three bedroom, two bathroom, that rents around $1,000. So, and then the range within those condos is, I would say, $8.50 and $1,200. You're getting, you're paying, putting in $30,000, give or take.

30 to 35 grand and getting 850 a month on those through a thousand. Correct. Holy smokes. That's a good numbers. Yeah, that's, what kind of, are these in tougher neighborhoods? I mean, are these, you said you're getting them at auction. So are they, you know, A class, B, class C, kind of, where do they fall in in that range? You have the city in St. Louis and you have the county.

And so these are mainly in St. Louis County. and they're usually in, I wouldn't say less desirable area as far as crime or not. They're from a crime perspective. Their crime is usually low. And usually the population is, you know, that of a working class. I would say low income to, you know, low, medium income level. And I think for the most part, they've been good as far as, you know, the tenants that I've been getting. That's great.

Okay. So we got that on the condos. I mean, those numbers are spectacular. The duplex is under 10K. I'm assuming you're also getting those at auction. Yeah. And just the clarity on the condos. So there's also the factor of HOA fees.

So obviously you have to factor in, you know, that cost. And for the most part, that's the biggest, you know, expense. And those HOA fees have ranged so far from, you know, $150 to $250. So even with the HOA fees, there's still a decent amount of return. Screaming deals. Yeah. So, okay, so back to the duplexes. The duplexes, you're paying under 10K for ad auction. So am I correct in hearing that you're, so you're buying these because they're so bloody cheap, it sounds like. And you just want to get them in your pocket. You're not even necessarily jumping on the renovation on all these units. It's let me get as many. I'm paraphrasing and, you know, please correct me. So let me get as many of these things in my pocket. It's, possible and I'll get to the ones I get to when I get to them. Is that fair? Yeah, that is fair. And I think for the most part, these properties are, you know, definitely in more perceived, you know, crime areas and definitely have a stigma attached to them. So there is that risk and, you know,

on my end, trying to figure out how could I understand the best way to market those and kind of the target audience that will be involved because obviously a lot of times there's a stigma of obviously crime being a huge factor. And once people hear where they're at, they may be not attracted at all. And then there's also the factor of not being able to, the fear of it, they're being torn up or tenants not caring enough about them. And so I think that's kind of a major reason why they're at that price point.

But obviously when the time is right, as far as, you know, the market saturating and having a strategic plan to get those ready, it's a matter of just going full force and getting those two tenant ready. Cool. So let me ask you one last question. I'll defer to Brandon for a few minutes because he looks sad. I always look sad. Come on.

Yeah. Well, you know, look where you live. What's the breakdown then of, I mean, you had how many total units it was? It was 25 units. Of those 25, how many units are just kind of. of sitting on the sidelines and have yet to be renovated and need to be renovated. So I would say it's probably close to 60%. 60% is on the renovation side and 40% is in the category where it's ready and able to, you know, be activated and generate profit.

Cool. So let me dive in and, you know, Big Daddy Josh is about to throw down here. So you got a full-time job, right? You're working and you're accounting. You've been scooping of properties, but you've got a whole lot of them sitting that have yet to be renovated. What's the plan? At what point do you kind of slow the roll on the buy side and get to those properties? Because your risk goes up, right? Obviously, the more of these properties that you have that aren't filled that need a lot of work, that, again, there's, there's higher risk to those properties for you as an investor. So is it, hey, I'm going to just buy up as many as I can for the next, you know, until December, till March, and then, you know, I'm going to put a stop

100% and then plow everything and give everything fixed by June. I mean, surely you have some kind of game plan. What exactly is it? So yeah, so luckily, you know, one of my recent properties that I purchased in the rural areas was actually very successful in the sense of, you know, it was under that $5,000 category. And, you know, Zello has it at 70,000 approximately a market value and luckily it's actually a nicer street in this rural neighborhood along with just overall better perception of the community. And so given, you know, that I mentioned earlier, that I like to focus on those that are more near to completion. And now that I've had, you know, a little over a year under my belt, I actually approach that. And, you know, I think one of

the biggest things is not to be intimidated by the bigger picture and the various, you know, know, components that will go into rehabbing these houses, but kind of breaking it down into smaller, more manageable pieces and approaching it that way. So on this one house that we're currently actually working on in the city, we've decided to focus, since it's a duplex, on the lower level, get that finished off, get that rented out, and then from there focusing on the second unit within that duplex. and that way it can be ready and, you know, the market could be generated. And I think there's already interest from the neighbor who's indicated that, you know, there's a older, you know, couple that's interested in moving in there.

And so when you have that word of mouth and the interest starts developing, that's how you can kickstart that process. So it's more by taking step by step and, you know, trusting the process. That makes sense. That makes sense. Are you, would you say you're pretty much close to saying, you know, I'm done buying, now we're all we're going to do is rehab? or you're just going to keep by and see how big you can get the portfolio, you know, while the make,

hey, while the sun is shining. Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. And I think it just really depends on the opportunity. And one of the things that, you know, I like to focus on is deals that are at lower price points, but yield higher rates of return. So to the extent that those come about, those are the ones that I focus on. And so I guess that's kind of my niche and my strategies, you know, I don't really usually buy ready-made, you know, turnkey properties because usually those are closer to market rates

and may not be as advantageous from a rate of return perspective. And so to the extent that a good opportunity pops up, I'll definitely, you know, engage that opportunity. But it just really depends on the market and what's going on. Okay. And what about funding? How are you doing? I'm assuming, are you paying cash for all these because they're so low or are you trying to get loans on them? Yeah. So, you know, one thing that I've been able to do is, you know, the first house that I bought was through, you know, conventional loan. And then recently, one of the houses that I'm renting out as an Airbnb, given that it was, you know, higher price point than what I usually buy, you know, this one was close to, you know, $110. So I would say if it's anything over 100,

you know, I usually try to find loans as far as, you know, working with a bank. But luckily, you know, through listening to bigger pockets and some of the takeaways that you guys shared, you know, seller financing actually has been a successful means of me acquiring a few properties. Other than that, you know, for some of the lower purchases, it's been a combination of personal savings along with, you know, my mother funding helped me find a few of the deals kind of as a passive business partner. Okay. All right, cool. So seller financing, let's take into that a little bit. First of all, what does that mean for those people who have never heard that term before? And how did you put that together a seller finance deal? Can you give us an example?

Yeah, absolutely. So essentially, the way it works is you have to understand, okay, you're interested in an opportunity to buy something. What are your different sources? So you have, you can do a cash purchase, you can work with a bank, you know, a family member help out with you, or you can engage with the selling party, whether that's the individual that's selling it or the agent, and assessing if their willingness to essentially sell you the property with a down payment usually, and then with an agreement that you would pay them monthly payments, usually at an interest in order to incentivize them to sell you the property. And usually it's advantageous to the seller to do that. If one, they may be getting

a higher purchase price. And two, if they don't really need the cash right away in which they'll be making usually a higher interest rate than they would otherwise in other conventional investment forms. Okay. Yeah. So you're buying these properties or a couple of them anyway, you said, where the seller holds the note, you pay them every month, just like they're the bank. What, like, how do you approach that with a seller? How did that even come up? How did you say, hey, will you carry the contract on this? Or is that just what you did? Yeah. So it's really, it really depends on the opportunity. So a lot of times when you're driving around and noticing different signs, which we call bigger pockets, you know, driving for dollars, you can assess, you know,

is it an agent that's selling it or is a seller? So with this specific deal, in particular to this unit that I bought, the six acres along with the house, it was posted by the owner. And he had, you know, he had asked for 400K, you know, as far as, you know, the purchase price. And so, obviously, I didn't pay that. So essentially, it's meeting up with the person and understanding, you know, what, what is it they're trying to do? So in this specific case, it was an older man. he was looking to retire and wanted to get regular income every month with an interest rate associated with that. And so once you understand what the seller's motivation is, from there, you could customize a plan as far as asking them, hey, are you willing to entertain seller financing? And then, you know, they would think about it, consult with their family.

And then if they trust you, if you can present, you know, good, in a good moral character, can back it up with, you know, financials and how you can fund such a deal. At that point, you know, you can proceed to the next head and sign a contract. Very cool. Yeah. And so you never know what like a person's motivation is to dig in, have that conversation, talk with them. And yeah, sometimes, especially like, maybe this is ages, but like older people tend to, tend to want to do seller financing a little bit more because they like they like the monthly income. Like what are they going to do? They get this big chunk of, you know, 300, 400, 400 grand. And they're like, okay, well, now I got to pay taxes on this. And then that just dwindles down to nothing. But if I carry a note for 30 years, now I got income for the next

30 years. I'll be 100 before I have to worry about, you know, money again. And so yeah, just understanding where the person's at, what they're needs are, what they want, can really open up the door. When I was doing research for the book on investing with no and low money down, which people can get a bigger pocket.com slash no money, I found out that like 30% of homes in America are owned free and clear. 30% of all the houses out there are on huge. Huge number. And so like, and not that you, there are ways. to do seller financing, even if they have a mortgage, but we're not going to get into that, you know, subject to and whatever. But just basic seller financing, they should have the home

paid off. And so people say, well, that's hard to find. Well, it's not really a third of all houses out there are paid off. So it's just about discovering the person's true motivation, what are they want, what's going to make them happen? And some sellers have never even considered it until you bring it up to them. You say, hey, you know, what are we going to do with this money anyway? Well, I don't know. It's going to stick in the bank. Oh, you know, the bank's only going to pay you, you know, half a percent. You know, what if you could earn seven percent? Oh, well, you know, let's talk about that. And then all of a sudden, you know, you have that conversation going.

So I love that. That's very cool. Yeah. It's great. And it's, you know, you have to also just be confident. You know, the worst that could happen is the seller could just say no. Yeah. But until, you know, you'll be surprised, you know, when I heard it on biggerpox, I'm like, no, that can't be possible.

I'm sure, you know, they sit on the show. But until you try it and you gauge kind of different responses, you'll be amazed. Yeah. Yeah, it's very true. Yeah. Most investors spend more time chasing deals than reviewing their. insurance. But a quick coverage check can be fast, easy, and one of these smartest ways to protect and even improve your property's cash flow. As the months get colder, frozen pipes,

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Ready to simplify your workflow, book your free demo at bill.com slash bigger pockets and get a hundred dollar Amazon gift card. That's cool. So you mentioned Airbnb and I wanted, I went over there. I was going, man. Ah, great, great minds. Steering my thunder. So this is something actually that I'm getting into for the first time. This week, one of my units vacated. I said, you know what? Everyone on the podcast here keeps talking about Airbnb, renting their properties out that way.

I'm going to do it. I'm going to turn one of mine at Airbnb. So selfishly, as usual, I'm going to quiz you a little bit. What are you doing for me? By the way, really quickly, I mean, I believe it was last week, maybe a week and a half ago, like New York. I believe, I don't know if I'm in New York City or New York City. They're cracking down. Airbnb.

Basically, I mean, I think I'm paraphrasing this correctly. Essentially, they're making Airbnb not even let you list in those areas. So like, you know, before it was, you know, I don't know that it was legal or not, and then you could still list, but now I believe Airbnb is stopping, allowing you to even list a property in those areas, which I may know a person or two who was making a pretty good income doing. that and you know they had transformed their long-term rentals to Airbnb they ran it exceptionally well had you know fantastic ratings made a great income and serviced all those people who needed a short-term

rental and now you know apparently the hotel lobby wins and so these guys are all going to be in a lot of trouble so i mean the one thing with Airbnb that i would just warn people is you got keep keep a real tight look on on what's going on in your area because You know, if you're going in with the strategy of, hey, I'm going to build this business, wrap it around at Airbnb or VRBO, short-term rentals, whatever it is, they tweet the laws. You could be in a lot of trouble. Absolutely. Anyway, so let's hear about your strategy and what you're doing with that. You said you paid, what, 110 for that property?

Yeah, Justin, just kind of add to that, you know, in addition to just the laws, you know, also be aware of, you know, the condominium associations as well as the housing community that you're in as far as, you know, how many. tenants you're allowed to, you know, occupy the house at any given time. So definitely I look at, you know, the higher level laws, but as well as the specific association and community laws as well. Yeah. So this Airbnb, so I look at Airbnb, obviously, in this case is utilization is always a beautiful thing. So in case of Brandon, you know, he saw an opportunity where one of his, you know, units vacated and he wants to explore Airbnb. And so this is a house that I bought close to my college, the University of Missouri, St. Louis. And as part of my initiative to give back to the community and turn it into either a fraternity or, you know, a similar student housing. And so when I

approached to school to explore the opportunity, if they like to collaborate or utilize such housing, given that they kind of want to promote their school-owned units, that idea kind of took a step back. And so the net plan B was, okay, what are my other options? And given that this has kind of on a, let's say, the less desirable street. So it's all one street, but a lot of times you have like a good street and then a bad street. And that's kind of common in St. Louis, although it's within a mile from the school. I figured that people would find it less desirable to live in that area. Hence, the demand or the rent potential would be lower. And so at that point, you know, I've heard about Airbnb and I said, let me give it a try. It's close to the airports,

close to the school. In St. Louis, for the most part, you can get around anywhere within 30 minutes. Let me list it. It's a nice size house in which right now I have five bedrooms in it, two bathrooms, and let's see what happens. And literally within the first day of listing, there was like, I think it was like the number one listing as far as views goes. And people were just off the hook as far as, you know, wanting to rent it out. Because I think a big part of it is the size and the number of bedrooms and people find that more affordable. And so I definitely, invested. I think the biggest thing once you have an Airbnb is, you know, furniture and making sure you have the adequate number of amenities that, you know, typical guests would expect. And I think

it kind of gets into a different field as far as, okay, we're used to just focusing on houses. Now we have to kind of accommodate these other needs. And so that's kind of been very successful. And, you know, really the difference between having an Airbnb property versus a regular property is volume of transactions and the amount of attention that you need to give, which hence you're getting compensated by higher daily rates of return than if you were to just pay, have someone pay a monthly rate. And what I mean by higher volume is now that instead of having, you know, a tenant reach out to you maybe one or one or twice of months, whether it's, hey, you know, the rent is ready or I have an issue with my bathroom. All of a sudden, you're getting constant inquiries, people asking you questions about

the listing. You're having people ask you, you know, where to park or, you know, where can I find this? How do you work with this? And all these other questions. So you're getting constant inquiries and as well as questions, but also the attention that you need to give as far as cleaning, every time someone switches out, as well as any issues that may come up with problematic issues, as far as maybe a water heater goes down or other it matters. This unit that you paid 110 that you've got an Airbnb, what do you rent that out per day? So on average, it's $100 per day.

And so on average, I've been renting out for a few months now, and it average is approximately $2,000 in income. You know, obviously you got to factor out, you know, costs such as cleaning, supplies, as well as other factors, which usually, you know, I would say come to anywhere from $300 to $400, so still, you know, a decent amount of rate of return. And, you know, in addition to that daily rate, if the number of guests increase, you could add an additional guest fee to factor in, you know, a higher daily rate.

So I currently have it set as any additional guest after four guests pays an additional $25 per day that they stay. So, you know, all of a sudden that daily rate, rate will multiply, you know, over the number of additional guests and you can make significantly more amounts. And, you know, with this property specifically, that's advantage, especially when groups come in, whether it's for a convention, a wedding, or meetings. And so that's, that's kind of been a successful point as far as larger groups are attracted to the specific house property. So are you, are you self-managing these then? I'm assuming you're doing all the work yourself, yeah.

So, you know, given that, you know, obviously I do have a full-time job and obligations. What I've been really successful at doing is, you know, building a team as far as, you know, two to three contractors that I trust and really just delegating a lot of those tasks too. So really, and given that I travel significantly during the weeks, I've been trying to empower them as much as possible so that they could, you know, understand the next steps and at times make executive decisions that I would have otherwise elected them to. And so I've been trying to have them help out as much as possible. And obviously to the extent that I'm available at night times after work or on weekends, I'll be part of the various needs that they have and getting them squared out for the next week. So are you talking about contractors as an independent?

independent contractors or contractors as in like actual contractor contractors. Yeah, so right now I've been working with a lot of independent contractors, people that have their own schedule and are able to, you know, collaborate with me on some of the projects and housing needs, services that I would like to deliver to the various tenants and guests. Got it. Yeah, I was going to say, I mean, Airbnb, you talked about all the work that goes in to service the guest. I mean, this is not, you know, you work for a half hour or an hour to get the lease sign with the new tenant and you're done.

I mean, this is constant daily. I mean, if you're running what it sounds like about 20 days a month, you know, that's 20 different people with lots of different queries 20 times a month. I mean, that's a considerable amount of time that needs to be spent to answer their questions on top of the cleaning and all the other servicing. So, you know, you've got to build some system in there to kind of deal with that, which is what it sounds like you've done through a bunch of independent contractors. Yeah. And I think a lot of times if you enjoy what you do and you're passionate, it's you can really make the most out of it and enjoy the process. So that's kind of

my big philosophy, you know, enjoy the process. And it's really no difference. Like, you know, if I get an inquiry during the day and I have a meeting going on or other obligations, you know, Airbnb has a policy where as long as you reply within 24 hours, you're fine. And they actually rate you on that. You know, if you don't respond within 24 hours, they ding you for that. And they have this like, you know, how fast do you respond in? So as long as you respond within 24 hours, it's good. But honestly, it's really, like you said, finding, you know, the right time to respond.

And it's, you know, it's how you use your time is, I think, a big part. You know, if I'm using Airbnb, it's, you know, as if someone's texting you or you're following up on things, you know, and so it's really finding the best practices to get that in a good spot. Nice. Cool. Hey, last question before fire around for me is you had talked about a commercial property. Can you tell us what that is and what the plan is, what you do or, you know, what are you trying to do? Yeah, so essentially this was a laundromat, which actually is right next to, well, it's a, you know, vacant laundromat at the time, which was, it's actually right next to, you know, to this Airbnb property.

And so one of the perks of Airbnb property is that, you know, they can use that vacant land parking space temporarily. But it's also on a very busy street. And so that's kind of, I would say, I would probably put that laundromat and the category of holding onto it until the right time comes to either advertise it to a potential business that may be interested

in leased in that space or selling it to a franchise similar type business. And so it has a decent amount of space, great location. And once again, it was purchased for less than 100K. And, you know, I think given that, and that was actually also another seller financing deal. And so it's one of those just buy them and, you know, focus on the right time to get them ready for show and from there strike a deal. Nice. Really quickly, you know, not to call you out, but, you know, I would be doing a discerning. to newbies if I wasn't. I would say if you are a brand new investor that look you work for a big four you know money is obviously not as big a concern as it would be for some other

people you know I cautioned newbies who hear this and say hey well yeah it's a great idea let me go and buy a bunch of properties for cheap and kind of get back to them when I have the time I would caution them against the strategy I think it you know it sounds like it's working for you and that's great. But, you know, I would, I would encourage those folks to, you know, pick up the property, make that decision, do what you're going to do with it, start getting the cash flow from it, and then work on the next one. Obviously, you have some wiggle room, which is great. You know, it works for you. It works for your strategy. I just, you know, I want to caution the newer folks to be careful. This strategy requires you to have the

capacity to hold on to the property, no cash coming in, and having payments going out. And so just keep that in mind. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, now knowing what I know now that I didn't know before, and let's say I'm starting off with, you know, less, less of funding and other resources. You know, I say Airbnb is a great way to kickstart, you know, your real estate career and just getting a feel of how you feel like it's, you'd like being a landlord. I feel like it's almost like a crash course, you know, having tenants come in and seeing how you deal with them. And you're still generating a decent amount of money on your own property.

Let's say you go out of town. You can try it out and it works out. And obviously there's different ways seller financing. If you can make it work with a seller as well as house hacking is also a great way to go about it. So there's definitely different ways that newer investors that don't want necessarily invest a lot of their own money to find other means of. leveraging the different strategies and methods that are available to finance such deals. Yeah. And I think it just shows, too, that there's different strategies for different people

based on what your situation is. And so, like, you know, if I'm starting out and I have zero money at all and I'm working minimum wage, yeah, I'm not going to go buy and buy 25 properties and, you know, have half of them empty, you know, to wait for later. But if I have a good stable job and I can afford it and I have a bigger plan for that, then yeah, yeah, that might be a fantastic strategy. It just shows that everybody, again, you got to figure out what works for you in your situation and accomplishes your long-term goals. So, very cool. Very cool.

All right, well, hey, let's shift gears and head over to the world famous Fire app. It's time for the Fire Round. All right, Bigger Pockets Fire Round is questions, our questions, is questions. I don't know, what do I say? Our questions? Bigger Pockets Fire Round is a set of questions that comes from Bigger Pockets forums. All right, let's get to this fire round. Number one, my first question of the Fire Round, let me pull it up here.

For a millennial who works full time and they're trying to invest, what should they commit to, what should they commit their time to doing when starting out? So somebody who's in 20s, maybe young 30s wanting to get started. What should they spend their time doing? Yeah. So I think the big thing at such an age is discovery, you know, really trying to find your passion and what you feel like you like doing. And then from there, you know, I think it really becomes, you know, can you turn this into something that can give you a nice, sustainable living. And if that becomes real estate, then definitely, you know, listen to the BP podcast, listen to the different shows and start exploring the different venues, understand your

market, and from there, you know, let that curiosity take you into more precise steps as to what you could do to, you know, enter the game and be successful in utilizing that passion. Cool. All right. Next question. I've got to money but I want to start investing what do I do? Yeah, so definitely, you know, understand the different opportunities you have. So, you know, one option is to work with an agency or other investors that have done it and understand how they could, you know, get you involved as far as, you know, maybe you could, you could do it through labor and as far as, you know, maybe there could be a deal that's struck

in which through your work services, you could, you know, obtain a property or understanding seller financing and, you know, given that they could come in and fund a deal for you with the ability to pay them back on a periodic basis. Cool. Cool. Cool. All right. Number three, should I look, I'm a young investor.

They said they're 21. Should I start looking for a single family or multifamily property? So I think the biggest thing is understanding, you know, know, what's in your area and understanding that there's not necessarily one size fits all. What may make sense for a single family may not make sense so much for a multifamily. So understanding what you can turn it into, what the best potential is and understanding the numbers, you know, does it make more sense to where you are to rent out a single family or do the numbers make more sense with the multifamily? So I think, you know, being open, being flexible and

understanding different opportunities and what's the best venue to pursue given what's available to you at that given time. Perfect. Cool. I love that answer. All right. Last question. What do you like best about investing in condos?

I said okay. Yeah. Yeah. So condos are amazing in the sense of your risk of things going wrong tremendously decreased. So literally all you have to worry about is what's contained. within those four walls of the condo. So, you know, drywall, plumbing, electric, cosmetic matters such as flooring, kitchen cabness, whatnot.

Whereas other forms of real estate investment you have to worry about the roofing, the foundation, among other factors. So that's why I say if I buy a condo and site unseen, the risk of, if you can figure out what it would cost to replace everything that's side, that's the maximum risk you're exposed to. And so I think that's kind of the biggest reason why condos are advantage.

Assuming, you know, the association is healthy and they're not, they're not in any legal or financial trouble. I think that's probably one of the biggest benefits of investing in condos. Makes sense. Makes sense. All right. Well, hey, let's shift gears for a final time and head over to the World Famous. Famous for.

All right. These are the same four questions we ask every guest every week. And I know you've heard over 100 episodes of our show, you said. So you've heard these before. Number one. I'm sorry. Yeah, I apologize. What is your favorite real estate related book?

So it's by Chris Gray. It's called The Efferalist Empire. It's actually, he's a UK investor and just talks about great ways of investing in the various investment types. And the benefits of that as relates to other forms of investment. So it was definitely a book that I enjoyed. I would say probably, you know, first real estate book that I read in its entirety. And it's, it's an easy read, 125 pages. So definitely recommend it. It's, you know, it's available, free online with a simple Google search. Oh, cool. Cool. Favorite business book? So this is one

that I'm actually in the process of completing, but it's, you know, how to influence people and, you know, when friends. And so I think that's kind of one that I've been, you know, in the process of, of completing and, you know, really trying to understand the people, aspect and how to, you know, bring the best out of people and, you know, managing that relationship with folks. Cool. And I think it's how to win friends and influence people, right? It's the other way around, maybe.

Correct. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. Cool. Hobbies, what do you do for fun outside of working and your real estate and traveling around for work, which I'm sure is exciting? Yeah. So honestly, right now, real estate is my fun.

And I know it sounds kind of weird, but. I mean, I really enjoy doing real estate. So literally, that's kind of been my fun. You know, a lot of people for fun, maybe we'll like to go to the mall to shop. So I like to go to Home Depot or Lowe's to shop. That's kind of my fun and learning about the different things and items they need. But I think other than that, you know, hopefully once that is in a good spot, you know, I definitely want to get more involved in, you know, hiking as well as other outdoors,

the activity when, you know, when the right time comes. So I think that's definitely something that I'm interested in doing. Sweet. Cool. Cool. All right. My last question of the day. What do you believe sets apart successful real estate investors from all those who give up,

they fail, or they just never get started? So I think the biggest thing is staying, you know, true to yourself and just making sure you follow through and what you're trying to do and achieve. And so, you know, if you come into real estate with the mindset that, you know, I just want to make a lot of money, a lot of times that may not be the best thing. but if you actually look at the, you know, let's say unspoken benefits of real estate, you know, you're providing a good living situation for someone. A lot of times you're influencing the community.

So really understanding what it is that it's driving you and not real estate and staying true to that and going into it for the right reasons. Nice. Nice. That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, Hussein, listen, man, we really do appreciate you coming in, sharing your story. You know, it's definitely a different path than we've heard from, I think, any of the previous, this is show 199, 198 shows or so. But that's, to Brandon's point, that's, I think, what's so fascinating about real estate is, you know, there is not any one path.

What works for you to, you know, is not necessarily what's going to work for somebody else. And so, you know, as we love to harp on every time, you know, find your own paths, guys, you know, listen to these shows, get inspired, see what makes sense for you. and go out and make your own decisions on what you want to do and how you want to move forward. But Hussein, thank you so much for sharing your story with us. We really do appreciate it and lots of luck going forward. Absolutely. Thank you guys for the time and look forward to listening to the next 200th series of shows. Awesome.

Awesome. Thanks, insane. See you later. Take care. Awesome. Thanks, guys. All right, guys. All right, guys, that was Hussein El-Ey Don.

Big thanks to Hussein again for coming on the show. That was interesting, man. I mean, definitely a different take. I think it's more of the, let me get as many units as I can, as quickly as I can, and then work out later. Yeah, figure it out later, which, again, I know we talked about this during the show. I think it works for him, and I think it potentially works for other people. I would not recommend it for somebody who's brand spanking new.

I think you want to get your feet wet. I think you want to really get a little more experience and, turn over your units more quickly and rehab them and get them ready instead of kind of sitting on unfinished. But again, it seems to work for him. That's great. I mean, as we talk about all the time, there's not a single path for any one person. And it's great to hear all the different stories and all the different ways people are going about doing things. It is. Yeah. And again, like, yeah, when he, you know, if you're somebody who has no money at all and you go out and get a bank loan and then don't fill the property, well, then you got negative cash flow. But for him,

It sounds like, first of all, the prices are a lot lower. He's got a great job. He's got a great job. He can back that up. And so, like, he knows, like, again, that's why it works for him. And I think that's cool. I love to hear stories like that. Yeah, awesome.

Cool. All right, well, let's get out of here. Well, let's do that. Before we do, you guys, please do jump on Twitter and leave a message for Mr. Scott Trench, Scott at BP. And, you know, give him some sympathy. Give him some, you know, give him some ooze and ahs. And we hope you feel better.

and you're the best Scott and tweet him so that for the rest of his life Scott gets tweets about this episode and his ridiculously large foot. All right. All right with that, guys.

We will see you next week on show 200 of the Bigger Pockets podcast. I know I'm extremely excited about it. It's going to be great. Brandon, why don't you take us out of here, man? Thanks. right for the Bigger Pockets podcast. My name is Brandon, and this here is Josh. And we're signing

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