BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 219: Private Lending, Turnkey, and Crowdfunding Real Estate with Dr. Kenyon Meadows

Episode Date: March 23, 2017

Many people invest in real estate hoping to make “passive income” but instead find they work more than they would at a day job! But not all real estate niches require a lot of time—and today’s show proves that! Today on the BiggerPockets Podcast, we sit down with Dr Kenyon Meadows, a real estate investor who chooses to invest his money using a variety of passive real estate vehicles, including funding other real estate investors, investing out of state through several turnkey companies, and investing in over 30 crowdfunding deals! If you are looking to make your real estate more passive, this is one show you can’t afford to miss! In This Episode We Cover: Who Kenyon Meadows is What you should know about alternative assets How he got into real estate How he structures his private money lending Whether track records matter to him How to impress a private money lender Tips for building permanent wealth How he got into turnkey properties Advice on finding the right turnkey property provider A look at the numbers for a turnkey property How he structures his deals How real estate crowdfunding deals work Kenyon’s future plans What he would tell someone starting out A discussion on investments outside real estate And SO much more! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Forums BP Podcast 048: Duplex Investing, Finding Great Properties, and Tips for Managing Tenants with Darren Sager BiggerPockets Invites Serial Podcast BiggerPockets Analysis P2B Investor Funding Circle Books Mentioned in this Show Essentialism by Greg McKeown Bridge Over Troubled Wall Street by Mr. Stephen E. Gardner The Alternative Answer by Bob Rice Alternative Financial Medicine by Kenyon Meadows Tweetable Topics: “I don’t think you should invest in anything unless you really know the ins and outs of it.” (Tweet This!) “Loaning is great, but if you want to build permanent wealth, then you’ve got to own this stuff.” (Tweet This!) Connect with Kenyon Kenyon’s Personal Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 219. Well, you know, I'm big on the education piece. Okay. I mean, I don't think you should invest in anything unless you really know the ends and outs of it. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited. from bigger pockets.com.

Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on, everybody? This is Josh Dorkin. host to the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, Mr. Brandon Turner. What's up, man? Hey, not much. It's a fine spring afternoon today, isn't it? Happy March 23rd. Happy, happy March. Yeah, we're

recording this a few weeks early, but it is officially springtime now, isn't it? When did that happen? It feels like, we here in Denver have not had a winter after December. I don't I think it snowed. It snowed when I was there. February. Did it?

Yeah, it snowed when I was there. Like an inch. And then like the next day it was warm me in. Yeah. That's been warm. But happy spring. Global warning. Science.

There's no such thing as global warming. All right. So today, uh, today we've got kind of a cool show. We've got a, uh, a doctor on the show. It's up, Doc. Yeah, what's up, Doc? And he tells Josh all about, you know, what's wrong with his face.

And so we finally get to learn what's wrong with John. What's wrong with John? He's an oncologist, and we actually talk about that problem that I'm trying to get removed up from the show. We do anyway, but before we get to all that, yes, before we get to that. Before we get to that, how are things, man? Things are going well. Things are fantastic. I know you and I just both finished the same book, which we didn't know each other were reading, which was essentialism.

Essentialism. Essentialism. Fantastic, fantastic book. I actually just talked about it in our all hands, Bigger Pockets team meeting this morning. And it's great. I just love the idea of, you know, breaking things down to their very basic core and doing those things that matter most and not wasting time or energy on everything else. I agree.

Yeah, I like that book a lot. It reminds a lot of the one thing, which is also one of my favorite rules. I mean, books in general, yours too. So I agree. Yeah, it was just funny that. You were both like, you're reading it. I'm like, I'm reading it. We were like at the same spot and everything.

It was weird. Yeah. That was cool. You know what else was cool today, actually? What's that? So I'm working and all of a sudden. That is weird. Wow, that was strange

I'm working and all of a sudden I see like somebody come in and they go to our kitchen here at the office and they start dumping all this stuff and I'm not really paying attention and then I find out that Darren Sager I don't know what show Darren Darren was a guest on but Darren has been a guest on the podcast

he's one of our moderators and he runs a meetup in New York, New Jersey for real estate investors on BP through BP so Darren had gone and bought lunch for everybody here at Bigger Pockets. It was awesome. That's awesome. I wonder what it tasted like. It was cute. Doba delicious. Oh, I bet that was like. Taco Tuesday. You know what I had? I had soup. Thanks, Darren. Nice job. Thank you, Darren. We loved it. Everybody here was really, really excited about it. So, thank you. Thank you. Anyway, thanks are good, man. Thanks are good. Here's the thing about traveling.

If you buy food at the airport, a burrito, salad, bag of peanuts, you start wondering if you should have opened a savings account for snacks. So wouldn't it be great if you could actually earn money while you're traveling. Well, you can. Airbnb has something called the co-host network. While you're away, you can hire a vetted local co-host with hosting experience

to help take care of things. Communicating with guests, preparing your space, managing reservations, everything runs smoothly while you're off making memories. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. Most investors spend more time

chasing deals than reviewing their insurance. But a quick coverage check can be fast, easy and one of these smartest ways to protect and even improve your property's cash flow. As the months get colder, frozen pipes, icy walkways, and seasonal wear and tear can increase the likelihood of claims. And traditional insurance companies aren't always built to handle these claims quickly or smoothly. That's why more real estate investors are turning to steadily. They focus exclusively on landlords, whether it's a single family rental, a burr builder's risk policy, or midterm holiday guests. You get fast quotes, flexible coverage,

protection for property damage, liability, and even loss of rental income. Now is the perfect time to review your rates and coverage. Get a quote in minutes at biggerpockets.com slash landlord insurance. Steadily, landlord insurance designed for the modern investor. For decades, real estate has been a cornerstone of the world's largest portfolios, but it's also historically been sort of complex, time-consuming, and expensive. But imagine if real estate investing was suddenly easy, all the benefits of owning real, tangible assets without the complex,

and expense. That's the power of the Funrise Flagship Fund. Now you can invest in a $1.1 billion portfolio of real estate, starting with as little as $10. The portfolio features 4,700, a single-family rental homes spread across the booming sunbelt. They also have 3.3 million square feet of highly sought after industrial facilities, thanks to the e-commerce wave. The flagship fund is one of the largest of its kind. It's well diversified, and it's managed by a team of professionals. And it's now available to you. Visit fundrise.com slash BP Market to explore the fund's full portfolio, check out historical returns, and start investing in just minutes.

Carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses of the Fundrise Flagship Fund before investing. This and other information can be found in the fund's prospectus at funrise.com slash flagship. This is a paid advertisement. Now, before we get to the interview, I know we got lots of stuff to get through house cleaning here, let's get to today's quick trip. Good job.

Today's quick tip. What is today's quick tip, Brennan? BiggerPockets.com slash invites. I-N-V-I-T-E-S. Invites. Yes. That's where you go and you invite your colleagues, your connections to join you on Bigger Pockets. So if you're a member and your agent isn't on the site or your lender or, you know,

some of the other investors you know or some of the people that you think might want to be investors. Like your mom. Don't talk about my mom, dude. Is your mom on Bigger Pockets? She might be. I'm going to go friend request her or colleague request her. Yes.

Anyway, you can invite anybody to join you on Bigger Pockets. We create a little referral link and you can actually share your referral link on social media. You can send emails out however you want to get people to join you on the site. You can do that. BiggerPockets. There's a fancy little Facebook button. I just clicked. I never clicked it before.

And it actually shares us nice, cool looking little create a Bigger Pockets account page on your Facebook. So try it out. I love it. All right. Thanks, guys. Awesome. Hey, guys. Again, this is show 19 of the Bigger Pocket.

It's a podcast, as we like to do from time to time. We are always looking for ratings and reviews. If you have not yet left us a rating and review on iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitcher, you name it. Please do leave us a rating review. Subscribe to the show and spread the word, let people know about the Bigger Pockets podcast. We're a top 150 show consistently of every show on iTunes. We're not a top 10 of all shows. So until we're beating, what's it, Richard Simmons is missing or whatever, until we're

being that, we ain't good enough. Serial. Yeah. Come on, guys. Tell your friends. Get us up there. All right, today's guest is Dr. Kenyon Meadows. Dr. Kenyon Meadows is a practicing radiation oncologist.

And he focuses on alternate investment strategies and things like that. So it's really cool. We'll talk about exactly what is an alternate investment strategy. He lives in St. Simmons Island, Georgia with his two kids, great guy, some really cool ideas. And this is a very, very cool show. I was very excited to record it and learn about some great new ideas. And by the way, real quick, I'll say we're going to talk a lot about private lending at the beginning of the show. We just talked a lot about it. But even if you're not somebody who wants to lend out private money,

listen to what he has to say because you're talking about getting inside the mind of somebody who might lend you money on a deal. Like, this is how private lenders think. Here's how you can attract them. You guys will learn a ton from that. That's a great point. Really, really good point. Yeah. I mean, everything we really talk about in the show comes from that perspective, the perspective of somebody who's potentially going to lend through crowdfunding, through private lending. Well, he's a turnkey as well. But there's definitely some great ideas, even if you are not yourself looking to do any of these strategies,

stay tuned and listen up. All right, Kenyon, welcome to the show, man. It's good to have you here. Thank you guys for having me. Appreciate it. Yeah, yeah. Well, why don't we begin at the beginning of your story? I mean, who are you?

What do you do? and how'd you get into real estate? Like a doctor, isn't he? That's what I hear. Right, right. Yeah, I'm practicing radiation oncologist. So my day is spent taking care of cancer patients, treating them with radiation.

And so that's why I spend most of my time. And when I'm not busy doing that or with my family, I'm a fairly active investor in alternative assets in general, including real estate. Alternative assets. What do you have about that? Yeah, let's get a definition on that alternative assets thing. Yeah, well, the financial people define it as basically anything other than traditional stocks,

bonds, mutual funds, CDs, money markets, the things that we're all pretty familiar with. So anything else is an alternative. So real estate falls in that category, precious metals, you name it. Everything else is an alternative. Okay. Okay. And why did you decide to get into alternative asset investing? Well, you know, basically some bad experiences with traditional investing.

I really took a beating with the 2008 market downturn. And while the stock market's gone up pretty well this past year, I mean, if you look back over the last, you know, from 2000 to 2015, the returns really aren't that great when you factor in things like inflation and taxes and everything. So I just basically wanted to figure out some different ways to invest money that wouldn't be subject to the sometimes pretty big downturns of the stock market. So that's what you're going to be interested. Yeah. It's great. It's a really, really good idea. Obviously, we talk about that a lot on the site. We talk about, you know, the sense of control that comes with buying real estate. We don't obviously talk about precious metals or oil or, you know, some of the other stuff that I think you're talking about here. But yeah, I mean, even now, like if you look at the market, a lot of people argue it's extremely overvalued. There's a lot of bets being placed on a massive dropping taxes, which may or may not happen. And, you know, we're looking at PEs in the upper 20s

of the entire market, which is, it's pretty crazy. So having alternatives to the stock market's awesome. And obviously this is a real estate show. So we're going to focus on that stuff. So usually what we'll do is kind of ask people about how they got started in real estate. So why don't we just do that with you as well? How did you get into the real estate side of this? Yeah. So really, my very first alternative investment in any season, serious way was doing private mortgage lending, both to house flippers and also to some buy and whole landlords who had, you know, exhausted their supply of traditional mortgages and needed some private money. So that was really my first foray into any type of alternative, was that.

And how did that happen? You just said, hey, I'm a doctor. I've got some cash on the side. I'm going to just lend money to flippers and landlords. And that was it. And how do you make that happen? Well, honestly, asking around, basically. So anybody that I could get my hands on, I asked them, you know, what they were doing investment-wise that was unique and new and everything. And ironically, there's actually a pastor I ran into it at a dinner party who told me that he did some private mortgage lending. And I'd never heard of it. And after he explained it to me and put me in contact with some of the people that he loaned money to and, you know, doing all the due diligence and learning about the process and everything. So it took some time. I'm pretty careful

with this stuff and I know I'll go through and read and talk and find it everything I can. But once I got comfortable with it, you know, I plunged on in. Well, that's, I mean, it's an interesting start and particularly given you found somebody so shady to help you out like a pastor. Oh, come on. Yeah, hard to trust those guys. So I'm so good good folks good folks so all right so let's talk about you you decided to get into this. What was your very first private lending deal like? I mean, how did that go down? Can you kind of explain like how you don't have to say name names, but like, you know, how did you that first deal happen?

Yeah. So once I got comfortable with the person's track record and again, I talked with lots of investors that had done prior deals with them and, you know, got comfortable with the whole. notion of, okay, well, what's an ARV? You know, what's a scope of work and what's the rehab budget? And then, you know, what's my loan to value? And I had to get comfortable with all those concepts, right? And once I got convinced that, you know, I was in it a good, a good loan to value. I was well protected. And, you know, at an interest rate that was attractive, you know, with private lending, you can easily be in the double digits, 12, 14 percent, that kind of thing, which for me was a real revelation. I mean, I had been looking around for yield on things and it was really hard to find

anything like that in the traditional realm. So I was, you know, pretty excited to do it. And, you know, when it worked out and the project finished on time and, you know, you've been getting interest payments the whole time and you get your money back and you can do it again. I mean, I was like, okay, this is, this is pretty, this is pretty nice. That's cool. That's cool. So I had, so go ahead. I was going to ask a quick question on the interest payment since you mentioned it for those people who don't know. So I go, I lend money to a flipper. The flip may take six months. So how do you structure those payments? Do you get, you know, paid every month? How does all that work? Yeah, I typically have always structured mine as a monthly payment, you know, despite the fact that

you, you know, you do your due diligence, you know, the person is good at it and everything. You know, you want them to have to, I think, you want them to have to write you out, you know, a check every month to kind of just remind them that they have these payments and to just give them that little extra, extra kick to get the project done. So that's how I generally structure it. Yeah. Cool. That's a good point.

You know, I've done when I borrow, because I've borrowed private lending and I've lent private money, but I've done a lot of borrowing, right? And sometimes it's monthly payments. I just pay monthly interest-only payments. So if I'm borrowing $100,000 and I'm paying, you know, 12% interest, I'm paying $1,000 a thousand bucks a month, right? So the other times, though, like especially the last couple of deal I did, I just did all one lump sum payment at the end.

So, and, you know, they both have, I mean, that one lump sum payment at the end was really, really nice. But I also didn't have that quite the fire underneath me that, that I did when I have that $1,000 a month payment coming. So I can definitely see both. So you mentioned a minute ago a couple terms that you said you had to kind of learn what these terms are. I want to actually go through those with you real quick if you don't mind. And in case there's people I hear that have no idea what they are. So first one, you said ARV. What do you mean by that? That's the after repair value or, you know, what the person is confident they'll be able to sell the property for once it's all fixed up.

And why do you care about that as a private lender? Well, you know, basically that the more generous that ARV prices, the more protective equity you have in the project. So however much you loan on it, you know, again, private lending, you kind of want to loan maybe 65, 70 percent is a kind of a benchmark number. So you basically have that as a protective cushion in case, maybe they don't quite hit that that ARV and they might have to lower the price down a little bit, you're still protected because you're in the loan for less.

Okay, so on that note, let's run in a quick example. Let's just say, for easy numbers, a property that has an ARV of $100,000. You said you'll typically let me know that 65% will say for that, which means $65,000. So let's say I'm a lender, I'm an investor and I come to you and I say, hey, I've got this great deal. And I can buy it for, you know, $40,000 and it needs $25,000 of work. So total of $65,000. will you lend me that entire $65,000, including repairs, or do you want me to have something in there as well? Yeah, generally speaking, I like to have the person have some money in the deal as well.

Now, I will tell you, I've been working with some people for a while now and have done several deals and have gotten comfortable basically pushing that up and loaning more and more on the project, but that's only for folks that you have a good track record with. Yeah, and to add one point there, if I came to. you with that exact same situation, $100,000. And I said, hey, I got this great deal under contract for $5,000 and it needs $25,000 to work. Now there's a much better likelihood you're going to lend me the entire amount, I would assume,

because you win no matter what. You would love if I didn't pay you and you had to take the property back. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so a lot of it just comes out of the deal you get as well. Right. You know, before, for a passive guy like me, though, that's kind of been always my theme with my real estate investing because I, you know, definitely have a day job that keeps me

busy. I don't want to necessarily go through the hassle of taking that property back. And fortunately, that has not happened thus far. Well, that's good. Well, and I think, I think that's a good question. Then have you been so lucky? Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. And I was going to ask like, so how do you, you talked about the pastor and the references to other, other real estate investors for somebody who may not have the network that you have or the connections, how would you suggest that somebody would go and vet a real estate investor who wants your money? Well, you know, for me, so number one, the person, the rehabbers company, you know, kind of making sure, you know, checking county records, like, is your company the ones actually

buying the properties? I checked that. I checked with, like I said, numerous people that had done deals with them in the past. I even spoke to some of the folks that were regular, like rehab crews, they were hire. Like, you know, how is this person? Kind of work did they do? Is it quality that they cut corners, you know, that kind of thing? So I talked to kind of everybody I could along the whole process there, basically.

That's great. That's really good. So what would impress you? You know, if obviously somebody does good quality work, somebody's got a track record, how much of a track record matters to you and then anything else that you'd want to share on that? Well, you know, the couple of guys I work with, I mean, they really, routinely do, you know, 15, 20 or more flips a year. And another thing, too, when they, when they're able to support multiple projects and they're kind of volume people, they don't sweat

if they have to, you know, basically discount the property a little bit to move on and exit the deal and move on to the next. You know, these are not people that are kind of, you know, scrumping by capital-wise. And that's, that's really important, too, I think. So you're talking, you're working with people who are not on their first deal and broke. Like, I need. need cash. It's somebody who's maybe got two or three other things going on and their capital's already deployed. They're just looking for additional capital for other projects. Right. Absolutely. Got it. Got it. Okay. I have one more question unless you're going to. Yeah. Okay. I'm wondering, like, let's say you are brand new and you, you on your first deal and you want to get,

you can't get a mortgage and you need a private lender. Do you have any advice for people that are in that situation right now? Wow. From what I, from listening to the forums and talking with people, it seems to me that if someone's really persistent, they'll eventually be able to find someone to give them the money. I personally, being the more conservative guy, I would think that, you know, sort of bootstrapping that first deal, maybe maybe doing some wholesaling or hitting up friends and family or something else where you're doing that first deal, which may go wrong, not with sort of an outside investor's money, you know, somebody that's really outside of your initial circle. That'd be my advice. I think it's a,

It's a dicey project to take, you know, really a third person, third party person's money if you're sort of just getting into things. Because you know there can be a lot of unforeseen things that go wrong. Yeah. No, that makes sense. That makes sense. Hey, I got a quick question now in real estate. Would radiation help me with my co-host problem? With you go.

I didn't know you had a co-host problem. It's time for it. It's time for it. the random five. All right, guys, so today we're going to introduce a new segment of the show, which if you were meticulous,

you may have already heard. In fact, if you listen to the last few episodes of the Bigger Pockets podcast, we hid a little secret feature for you in there. If you listen all the way to the end of the show and then past Josh and I's rambling at the end, and then past the music,

the last few shows actually have a little hidden segment in there where we take the guest and we ask them some random questions. We call it the random five. And today we're going to try something a little different. What color underwear? are you wearing? I'm not going to answer that. We're going to answer right now in the middle, middle of this episode here with Kenyon. We're going to ask him these five questions. We just ruined right here. And we're going to, no, who shapes their arms? And we're going

to ask Kenyon. So anyway, without further ado, let's get to the random five. Do you have any irrational fears? That was my question, really? Sorry, I just took yours. And do you have any irrational fear or something you're afraid of that is silly. Yes, I do. I know. Oh, this is for Kenya. Pickles. Irrational fears. Yeah. Phobia, anything like that. Not really, man. Not that I would say. Yeah, Josh is, Josh is afraid. I'm afraid of everything. I'm afraid of light. I'm afraid of dark.

I'm afraid of sun. I'm afraid of clouds. What? Josh. So old beers. Calm down. You're on some anti-anxiety medicine. I just don't like cream cheese or pickle. Yeah. If there's a pickle, like I've been, out to restaurants with Josh and he'll

they'll bring out he'll say to the way to the waiter no pickle on my food and then he'll be like no seriously no pickle I will freak out if there's a pickle and they'll come out with the plate and there on the plate is a pickle and he will flip I mean he throws tables and he shot a man once

all right next question on the random five Kenyon do not listen to my co-host have you ever won an award and if so what was it for I won first team GTE academic All-American football, small college football. Yeah.

Oh, nice. It's not bad. There you go. Nice. That's cool. What position do you play? Defense of end. Nice.

Very cool. Number three, if you can sit down with your 15-year-old self, what would you tell him or her? Well, what would you tell him? Put your hands away. 15. Oh, my God. Oh, man. That's interesting.

I don't know. Don't play video games all day. I was an idiot. 15. You know, that's a good answer. I like it. All right, all right, all right. What?

Oh, yeah, I'm excited about this one. What was your worst haircut? Yeah, I can recall that. You know, so you guys remember in the early 90s, the old high top fades are going on, kid and play. Remember that? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

So, you know, I had a miniature version of that. And we're getting, I'm getting it touched up. in the locker, football locker room in high school. And the guys are, you know, messing around and, you know, and they bumped the dude's hand. It's cutting my hair and just put, you know, almost like a little gumbie thing going on. How tall was it? It was about, it was probably about a good four inches. It wasn't, it wasn't super tall, but it was a nice little block there, you know.

It wasn't like an A Blinken hat, but no, it wasn't that big. No. That, you know, in high school, though, a messed up haircut like that, you know how that goes. Canyon, if you can support. us or if anyone listening could supply us with photos of Kenyon with said haircut, please do send them to. Now, you don't have to send them when I can have got. All right.

My last question or the last question of the random five. Are there any household chores you secretly enjoy? Which ones and why? Secretly enjoy. I don't mind sweeping up. There's something satisfying about, you know, seeing a bunch of crap on the floor and getting it up pretty quickly. I don't mind sweeping.

Don't tell my wife, though. Awesome. Let's get back to this. All right. So what would you tell somebody? I think we'll transition away from this in a second, but what would you tell somebody that, you know, other doctors or attorneys or other professionals who are,

you know, who are doing well or they don't have to be professionals necessarily. But, you know, these guys are thinking, you know, they want to deploy their capital. They're thinking about being a private lender. It makes sense for them. what, you know, what pearls of wisdom would you offer to them as they just get into that stage of things? Well, you know, I'm big on the education piece. Okay. I mean, I don't think you should invest in anything unless you really know the ins and outs of it. So certainly I'd recommend books, podcasts, you know, and sort of get the lingo down and sort of have a working knowledge of how it works. And then you ultimately, I think you've got to find a mentor, right? You know, somebody who's actually doing the thing. same thing that you want to do and, you know, take them to lunch, hang out with them, see how

they've done, you know, pick their brain, that kind of thing. That's been huge for me. So I think those are two real key things. It's that's the thing, right? It does take a little bit of upfront work or maybe even a lot of upfront work. But once you get it in place, at least I found, you know, you find reliable people to work with up front and those relationships, you know, it can really be productive for years. Yeah, that's great. That's great. And I'm assuming, you know, while you're doing some of these other things that we're going to talk about, you're continuing to lend out private money on the background, right? Yeah.

Correct. Perfect. Correct. Cool. All right. So what came next? What other real estate alternative stuff are you doing? Yeah.

The next thing was buying some physical properties and buy and hold. And I was actually pretty reluctant to do that for a while, mainly because I bought into the notion that, you know, owning a rental, like no matter. what in terms of having a property manager or this and that, it was going to be a hassle to deal with. So I was pretty darn reluctant to do it. But as it turns out, one of the folks I was loaning money to to help them build their portfolio, ironically, another physician and wife couple, he works and she runs the real estate portfolio. As I was helping, as I was loaning private money to them, they were the ones that were encouraging me. Like, hey, hey, Kenyon, you know,

loaning the money's great, getting these high interest rates are going. great, but, you know, if you're going to build some, some permanent wealth, you got to own this stuff. And, and the interest payments, they aren't, they aren't tax, you know, there's no favorable tax treatment on, on interest from private lending. And so as she started to talk to me more about it, that warned me up to the idea of doing the turnkey rentals. So that was next. Got it. Before you go into turnkey rentals, the tax on interest rates not being favorable, can you explain that? Well, you know, the interest payments that you get on the private loans, there's no, there's no, depreciation, you know, on it, or it's basically taxed as ordinary income. So, you know, while it's,

while it's a nice, a nice return, you know, you definitely pay the tax man. Yep, for sure. Okay. So turnkey. So now you're, you're into the buying hold and you're, you're not out there buying the properties, you know, looking through the neighborhood and buying them yourself. You're, you're finding these, quote, turnkey property. So what is the turnkey property? How do you find them? And tell us about your experiences. Yeah, so that term, turnkey, I mean, basically it means buying a rental property that somebody else has basically sourced it, done the necessary rehab to it, put a tenant in place. And most of the time, not all the time, they stay on and are the property manager of it too. And, you know, once all that stuff's in place and a tenant's been found, that's typically when the investor is engaged to buy it.

So there's cash flow coming in right from the time that you get it. And I would say that it's meant to be basically a very hands-off, supposed to be, hands-off, hassle-free experience for investors. That's how it's sold. And from what I gather, you know, your mileage may vary in the turnkey game. There's some good ones and there's some not-so-good ones. I think I found a good one. So, I mean, how did you find your turn-key provider? I'll go there.

There's kind of like 100 questions I want to ask you on this. But how did you find your turn-key provider? And then, I mean, how do you, I don't know, how do you know you're not going to get burned from them? Like, how do you just trust this company is just going to do a good job? Right. So, you know, my experience is a little unique. Okay. So I follow that space.

I read the forums. And so I know what other people are going through. And so I know for a lot of folks, you know, they do a Google search. They read a bigger pockets for them. And they get a few companies and they kind of go look them up. And that's the beginning of the relationship. Whereas with me, I actually. knew my turnkey provider a couple of years ahead of time through this whole private lending thing.

So I had a unique insight into how they were going to do things. So I had an extra level of confidence. So that's not a typical entry point for most people, I think, getting into turnkey. Okay. So what about the people that are listening right now that don't know a turnkey provider? Do you have any advice for them for how do you know you're not going to pick the wrong one? How can you prevent it? Well, well, there certainly is a lot on the web there. terms of people's reputations. And there is enough information, I think, out there for, say, for instance, folks that have not had great experiences. I certainly have read a lot of them. And if you continue to delve into it, and I've called people, too, you know, I've called potential,

I've called investors in companies that I was considering. They lived out of state, talked to them about their experiences and things of that nature. And what you tend to find is that a few names start to kind of bubble up to the top that are consistently considered to be quality. And so you can find it. It's just, it takes a little bit of a little bit of due diligence, but I think it's not too hard to find out who the good ones are and bad ones. Yeah, I think, I think that's true. And like you said, you called, you know, people who had those turnkeep company.

I mean, like, if I was going to go out and, I don't know, buy anything, I typically ask for other people, hey, who's ever bought this before? Like, if I want to, I want to buy a, I'm thinking about buying a, what do they call the Toyota RAV-4? Like, I really am. Like, hey, that kind of seems like a cool car. So I'm not asking, hey, is anybody listening to this podcast, bought a rat for? What do you think?

Leave a message in the comments at biggerpockus.com slash show 219. Did you like that? I totally shifted the gear to me. But anyway, so I want to ask people's advice. So the same thing, right? Like if you're going to go deal with a turkey company, talk to them. I mean, hey, can you give me the name of 10 of your clients? And then actually call those clients and just dig into them and find out.

Yeah. And that was really useful because I found it. There was a wide variety of what people will consider. due diligence or what's adequate for them. And a lot of that's based on their prior experience. Like I talked to one woman out in California when I was considering buying some turnkey in Cleveland. And, you know, she owned a couple. And she'd never, she'd never had been to the city. She just basically bought them off the internet. But they were also like her ninth and tenth properties. And so she'd already bought a few others, other places. And so just that comfort level of

making a big purchase like that strictly based off of online and not going. there physically to look at the neighborhood or look at the property, which is what I had just done, you know? So it was amazing the variety of what people will, will consider to be due diligence with terms. Yeah. And we definitely recommend that people do not do that, especially if they're new. Like, you know, don't, don't just go. And that's why a lot of people give me grief about all the Detroit stuff. But, you know, that's the whole point here is, is, you know, you got to do your homework. You got to get boots on the ground, whether they're yours or somebody else's that you know and that you trust and take a look at these properties. You know, there's companies who market pigs and call them something else because, you know, you're not going out there.

You're not looking at it. You don't see the neighborhoods. You don't know where they're necessarily putting these properties up. And you can very quickly get burned to Brandon's point. So especially if you knew, make sure if you're thinking about picking up turnkey properties that you do a thorough job. vetting the company. And then get out there. See what they're talking about.

Look at their operation. Look at the properties that they've, you know, already done projects with and talk to talk to other folks. No doubt. So mine in particular, they're about an hour away. And so I can, I can drive to them and see them and everything. Although I will say I would be comfortable doing the real long distance thing at this point, but it just so happens that, you know, my provider and my network and all that, not two,

too far away. But I rarely see the properties anymore. What cities do you buy in? Jacksonville exclusively at this point. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I had a guy, I had a guy tell me from Bigger Pockets actually emailed me last week and he said, you know, Brandon, I need your help. I'm so worried. I'm working with this Trinkie Company where a couple days from closing and it's 40 grand. My last, I mean, it's really like most of my life savings, 40 grand. And now I'm getting nervous and I don't know is the property in a bad condition. I don't know. He had all these problems. And like my email was like fly there. I mean like if you're talking 40 grand, what's 400 bucks for a flight to go there, check it out. Like sleep in a car. I don't care.

Just like get there and go check it out. Drive the neighborhood and see what you're doing. And the second piece of advice that you have people is don't ever rely on a turnkey provider to do your math homework for you. Like they're they're incentivized. A turnkey company is incentivized to make the property look as good as possible on paper for you. And I'm not saying they're not being deceptive. I'm not saying all three companies are even most are just up to. I think they're good companies, but at the end of the day, it's on you to do your homework, you do to do the math. So if people want to help with, if people want help with their little math homework, we do have calculators on BiggerPockets. You can use them five times, I think, for free. If you're a

free member or if you're a pro member, you can get a unlimited access. So if you want to check them out, go to BiggerPockets.com slash analysis. You can get a kind of a free trial there. So try it out. Absolutely. Absolutely. So yeah, the turnkey, you know, that's been a big thing for me. And, and, you know, having bought our first one in 14, and so having, having, had them for a little bit now. I can truly say that they've been relatively passive. I mean, you know, a few phone calls, emails, that kind of thing. And we've had two vacancies, but it's really been a pretty passive experience, which was, which was a key for me. And so I think a good turnkey provider could be a good thing for other professionals who want some exposure to real estate and don't

want to have to give a lot of time. Wouldn't it be great if your house plants paid rent while you were out of town. I mean, they've got the whole place to themselves, lots of sunlight, zero responsibilities. But no, they just sit there waiting for someone to spray them with some cool mist like a bunch of leafy loafers. But guess what? Your home actually could be earning you money while you're not there. Airbnb has a great feature called the co-host network, which makes hosting your home so easy. If you live far from your property or are away for extended periods, you can hire a local co-host to take care of the hosting for you. These co-hosts are vetted locals who already have experience hosting on Airbnb. A co-host can handle all the details like messaging guests, creating your host space, and managing

reservations, so everything runs smoothly. It's a practical way to earn a little extra money, maybe even some cash toward your next trip. Plus, you get to share your place with someone traveling to your area while you're off making memories somewhere else. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. Most investors spend more time chasing deals than reviewing their insurance. But a quick coverage check can be fast, easy, and one of these small,

mardous ways to protect and even improve your property's cash flow. As the months get colder, frozen pipes, icy walkways, and seasonal wear and tear can increase the likelihood of claims. And traditional insurance companies aren't always built to handle these claims quickly or smoothly. That's why more real estate investors are turning to steadily. They focus exclusively on landlords, whether it's a single-family rental, a burr-builder's risk policy, or midterm holiday guests. You get fast quotes, flexible coverage, and protection for property damage. liability, and even loss of rental income. Now is the perfect time to review your rates and coverage. Get a quote in minutes at biggerpockets.com slash landlord insurance. Steadily, landlord insurance designed

for the modern investor. For decades, real estate has been a cornerstone of the world's largest portfolios, but it's also historically been sort of complex, time-consuming, and expensive. But imagine if real estate investing was suddenly easy, all the benefits of owning real, tangible assets without the complexity and expense. That's the power of the Funrise Flagship Fund. Now you can invest in a $1.1 billion portfolio of real estate, starting with as little as $10. The portfolio features $4,700 single-family rental homes spread across the booming sunbelt. They also have 3.3 million square feet of highly sought after industrial facilities, thanks to the e-commerce wave. The flagship fund is one of the largest of its kind.

It's well diversified, and it's managed by a team of professionals. And it's now, available to you. Visit fundrise.com slash BP Market to explore the fund's full portfolio, check out historical returns and start investing in just minutes. Carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses of the Fundrise Flagship Fund before investing. This and other information can be found

in the fund's prospectus at fundrise.com slash flagship. This is a paid advertisement. If you think property management is expensive, try mismanaging a vacancy or an eviction or a maintenance issue that turns into a five-figure problem because no one caught it early. That's

expensive. A good property manager isn't overhead. Their protection against small mistakes turning into big losses. And that matters more than ever in this economy. That's why I like Mind. Unlike other property managers, Mind manages your property like an investment. They obsessively measure the things that matter for your bottom line. Things like occupancy, delinquency, and net promoter score. And they have the results to prove it. Go to mine.co slash show me to see how mine performs and get your first month free, which is much cheaper than learning the hard way. What kind of return can somebody expect on a turnkey property? You know, you go out, we talk about the 2% rule, the 1%. You know, we talk about these different kinds of returns.

What could somebody expect from different turnkey properties? Well, I can speak from my experience. So having listened to a lot of you guys, material and everything, I try to stick to the 1% rule. You know, getting that 1% rule. You know, getting that 1% percent of the purchase prices rent at least per month and and trying to stick to those B neighborhoods, you know, not too expensive, but definitely not not war zone either. And and that's what that's what I've done. So all my properties adhere to the 1% rule. It's gotten a little bit tougher to to get that. The Jacksonville market is, you know, it's heating up as a lot of them are. It's got good, good demographics and people are moving there and everything. So it's getting harder to find things. But that's what I try to stick to. neighborhood wise and return wise. Okay. Got it. And how many total deals have you done now?

Turnkey ones. We just recently picked up our seven. Seven. Okay. That's cool. And what do you average, I mean, what's average purchase price for these properties then? Yeah, the average purchase price has been around 80,000 and the rent has been anywhere from

$9.50 to $1,100. Okay. And I'm assuming tenant usually pays their own like water sewer garbage, things like that. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. And so on these turnkey properties, are you buying them like, You would any other property. I go and I find a property in my neighborhood. I want to buy it as a rental house.

So I buy the house. I put 20% down or less. And is that what you're doing on these? 20%. Actually, no. You know, the first couple were cast purchases. And then I did a somewhat of unique thing. I kind of went to the friends and family, as it were, and got some private money from them and have done the remainder of the deals with some short-term private money down, actually. I knew some people in my network that had some cash sitting around that wasn't doing anything. And so, you know, we structured a private loan to me. And that's how I've been able to get the rest. Can you explain how you did that exactly? And how would, you know, how would your peers, the people that you borrowed from expect to get a return?

How are you going to pay them back? Yeah. Well, you know, I structured it as a, as an interest only, either a one or a two-year loan with a balloon type. situation. And basically between, you know, my earnings, some flip profits and some other things, that's how I'm able to pay people back. But kind of more globally here now, I'm actually working on my first cash out refinance as well. So properties have gone up, you know, a good 15, 20 percent or so. At least that's what it looks like. And with interest rates getting ready to, you know, go up. I think now is a good time to do that. So that's, that's all.

ultimately what I'm going to do as well. Awesome. So that's kind of the exit strategy on using the short-term lending as you acquire with the short-term refinance it later. Exactly. Sounds a little like the burr or strategy to me. Yes, indeed. All right.

Well, cool. All right. So then you've been doing the, you started with the private lending, moved into the turnkey space, and then I read somewhere that you've been doing some crowdfunding stuff as well. Can we talk about that? Yeah, absolutely. So in my looking's around for alternatives, I was a pretty early adopter on the, on the real

state crowdfunding. I started participating on some of the platforms in the late 2013 and have continued to do so over this time. And so definitely have done a number of those deals, which for folks that don't know, what I do on them is principally debt deals. So the same way that I was providing money to people in my network to flip houses, it's really the same concept. It's just that you're doing it online through a website and you're putting in a fraction of the money because it's a crowdfunded loans, you know, to put up, put up all the money. So it's a very cool way to do some private lending with a much lower amount of money per deal anyway. How much you put in per deal approximately? Yeah, you know, when I first started, it was difficult to do anything less than

$5,000 per deal. And now there's a few that are proliferated that you can do a thousand or, and there's one in particular to let you put in as little as $100. So yeah. Interesting. So what kind of returns do you see on that? I mean, like are you, what kind of percent it returns? turn, do you hope for or get? Well, yeah, I was looking at that and prep for the show. So over the years that I've been doing it, I've averaged 11%. Now, I will say in the earlier years, it was much easier to get the offerings on the platforms were routinely 12, 13%.

And I think now that more and more people have gotten into it, I think the the yields have gone down. You know, it's kind of more in the 9, 10% range. But still, that's not bad to be able to be secured and still get that kind of turn compared to, you know, what's out there otherwise. So how many, how many of these crowdfunding deals have you participated in? Thirty-five at this point. Thirty-five. And have they all worked out well? Are some still going on, I'm assuming, or any failed? Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, 35, I think it's had 13 that have successfully exited. You know, they pay their interest throughout the

year or whatever and got my capital back. And there's three that are in basically various states. of default at this point. And so they were paying. And then, you know, when the project was time to wrap up, you know, something, something didn't go quite so well. They weren't able to sell or refinance that kind of deal. And so the platforms will send you notifications that they are doing the legal thing and, and we'll take back the property. And, and thus far, I've gotten assurances at least that I'll eventually be made whole. But, you know, depending on the state that it's in and everything, you know how long that can potentially take. Interesting.

So three out of 35, you know, not bad. And haven't lost any money thus far. So you've had 13 exits, three in some stage of default. So that's 16. That are performing. Yeah. And then another. That's great.

That's great. And how can you avoid those three? How does one? And I, you know, I haven't done anything on the crowdfunding platforms, but I'm assuming that there's enough info to potentially protect yourself, but maybe, you know, it's just inevitable. Yeah, I mean, I think that the, the good platforms out there, and over the years, there's a few of them that have emerged as kind of like the, you know, kind of the industry leaders. You know, they've been around for several, or a few years now, at least, which is about as long as you can be around as a real estate

crowdfunding platform. And I think they've gotten more selective as to who they let on there. They call them sponsors, the people that put the deals on there. And the track record, They have to have a good track record before they can get on the platform. And all that information is there. So you can see like how many deals they've done, what their success percent's been and all that. So it's all there for you and all the, all the merits of the deal itself in terms of, you know, the ARV or whatever, the exit strategy. So you can, you can comb through all that stuff. But ultimately, you know, I do think that the main thing is if you're going to do it, I think you need to be involved in sort of multiple small deals spread out all over.

you know, some diversification. Because some of them are going to, you know, inevitably go bad. I think that's smart. Yeah, never really thought about that before. You know, I've thought about, hey, maybe I'll just take, you know, five or ten grand and just throw it into one and see what happens. But I actually like the idea of thinking, well, why don't I just do 10 of them and see where they... Yeah.

Yeah, if you're only going to do five or ten grand, I would go at one of the sites that let you put like a grand on each, you know what I mean, and spread it out. That's what I would do. Yeah. I think that's very smart. I never thought about that. So very cool. Very cool.

Well, so what's your plans going forward? from this. I mean, where do you see yourself in the next three, five, 10 years? You want to quit your job eventually or buy more properties? Yeah, we'll definitely want to continue to acquire more rentals. I mean, that's thinking about that, that's going to be, you know, basically the big supplement for the retirement kind of thing, you know, keeping these rental properties and whatnot. So that's definitely a big thing. I want to continue to do the private lending. And, you know, in talking with my colleagues and just other people in my social circle, just trying to get the word out about these other ways. to invest money, right? And so that was kind of the impetus to start the blog, book, that kind of thing.

So trying to be an educational resource for people. Got it. Got it. That's awesome. All right. So, you know, I'm, I talked to a lot of people who are, you know, they don't want to be the landlord. They don't want to buy and hold property themselves. They don't want to deal with all the drama. You know, the market, they're worried about, they're concerned. What would you tell them? Where would you tell that guy to start if, if they wanted to be in the real estate game. Would you say crowdfunding? Would you say the private lending?

Would you turnkey? I mean, you still do kind of have to do some management. Yeah. Well, it's interesting. You know, I got contacted by a colleague. Well, yeah, yeah, it's a colleague. He's a new graduate, fresh out of residency, a new doctor, tons of debt that he's got to pay off, which is my situation.

But he wants to get into the real estate game. And he asked me my advice as I was just tackling this last week. And, you know, he's got a fairly modest amount of money. And that's exactly what I told him. I was like, you know what? You should take advantage of the technological innovation with this crowdfunding. I mean, to be able to get into private lending for such modest amounts of money, that's incredible. And so I told him that I would recommend that he do that if he's looking strictly for a passive investment, but want some exposure to real estate.

So that's what I would encourage folks to do. Yeah, right on. And what would you tell yourself if you were talking to yourself when you were, well, I don't know, when you graduate all your schooling for being a doctor, you're probably 40 already. But what would you tell a younger you, maybe in the 20s, about getting into this? Would you have started a lot sooner if you had known? I would have. I definitely would have. I think about the opportunities to maybe have, you know, plucked up some of these properties, you know, after the mortgage crisis of that kind of deal

or, you know, what deals really could have been had. So that would have been awesome if I would have had the knowledge and I wouldn't have been scared to just take the plunge and be able to get some of these properties so much cheaper. So that would have been, that would have been great. Yes. Oh, that's cool. That's cool. All right. Before we go to the fire round, because you do other investments outside of real estate, I'm just curious if you could give us like two or three minutes on some of those other investments, some of the other strategies that you employ in those alternate investments. Right. So as it turns out, I really like lending money. and basically high-yield debt in all its forms.

So certainly private mortgage lending is one, but some of the other online platforms that have emerged kind of along with real estate crowdfunding. There's consumer lending that you can do. They call it peer-to-peer lending where you can basically loan money unsecured, okay, to somebody online. And you're basically doing the same kind of analysis on them that a bank or a credit car company would do. You know, they have their FICO score and their income, their debt to income ratio and all that. And you can loan an individual person money.

Is that like Prosperer Lending Club, those guys? Exactly. That's exactly what it is. So Lending Club is the one in particular I've been on. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely like that.

Lending Club as well. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And in another area that I don't think as many people know about is you can do, you can basically do the same thing as Lending Club, but to small businesses. There's a lot fewer platforms and the profile. isn't as big, but there are platforms out there that cater to small businesses, not startups. These are established small businesses that have revenue, customers, all that kind of stuff. And they want loans that basically are too small for the banks to want to deal with, like maybe

$50,000, $75,000. And the platforms will crowd fund those out to investors too. And the yields on them can be comparable to private mortgage lending. You're talking, you know, mid-teen percent. And they'll do it because they don't have really any other way to get those kind of loans. Name one or two of those platforms. Yeah, there's one, a funding circle is one. And P to B investor.

That's P, the letter two and B investor. That's another one. So definitely something to check out. Awesome. No, that's great. That's great. Really helpful. Cool.

All right. What do you think, Brandon? Is it time? I think it's time. Why don't we head over to the dangerous fireout? Fire out. It's time. for the fire round.

All right, the fire round. These questions come direct out of the Bigger Pockets forums, which of course our listeners can get to and should be interacting with on a daily basis over at biggerpockets.com slash forums. Great bunch of people over there just answering questions and offering advice. So, and I know you're familiar with that as well.

Let's get to these questions. Number one, it's a little bit longer, but I'm going to read the whole thing because I think it's a good question. Hey, guys, at the moment, I'm working on my business card to get set up as a whole, sailor, my question is, before I start going to a local meetup and networking, should I have

multiple business cards, like one for sellers, another for buyers, or should I just have one card that has information for both types of people? What do you think? Hmm, I don't know if I'm the expert in that, but I would, I would tend to specialize and have a card for each type of person you're going to interact with. I think that comes across is better. I agree. I like it. Fair enough. Cool. All right, next question. I'm looking into my first deal, but I don't have a ton of money. Should I buy something cheaper but in a worse location, like a war zone potentially,

or wait to save up more to buy in a better neighborhood? I would definitely recommend that you wait and save up and buy in a better neighborhood. Yes. Yes, definitely. Agreed. All right. That was just seen. Yeah.

All right. So this is how the fire round is supposed to me. Yeah, that's quick. Okay. Okay. All right. I have $400,000 in student loan debt, but I should be making $300,000 a year, the dermatologist starting this year. Should I, so I'm sure you're familiar with people who have massive student loan debt, but they're going to make a massive income.

So should I wait to invest? What do you suggest? Well, I think that would come down to what the interest rate and structure is on that student loan debt. Now, for me, this is kind of a little longer answer. For me, when I didn't have a lot of good ideas about how to invest my money, my first few years, I poured into paying off really some low interest student loan debt. That in retrospect, it might have been smarter to let ride and use some of that money to invest.

So basically, I think it comes down to how that debt is structured. If it's long term and low interest, I might pay the minimum on that and do more aggressive investing because you can't make up for that time, you know? Got it. Awesome. All right. Last question. What's the worst thing a tenant has done to one of your properties? Man, I've got to say, I've had a pretty charmed existence. I mean, the couple of vacancies I've had pretty minor. So no horror stories there. Just had something more exciting. Just that's all good. Beautiful thing. Beautiful thing. Perfect. All right. All right. Let's head over and close out this show with our world famous. Famous for. All right, these are the same four questions we ask every guest every week,

and we're going to throw them at you right now, Kenyon. Number one, what is your favorite real estate related book? Yeah, a little different one here. Bridge over Troubled Wall Street by Stephen Gardner. He is a financial planner, but he advocates for alternative strategies for folks, including doing bridge loans and private mortgage lending. So definitely a book I would recommend. Awesome. Cool. We love when we get new suggestions. So thank you for that. What about favorite business book?

The Alternative Answer by Jim Rice. It's basically kind of a primer introductory book on alternative assets. It covers a whole range of things. Just awesome. Cool. Cool. What about hobbies? What do you do for fun when you're not investing in real estate? Yeah. You used to be a big time video gamer. I still squeeze in a little bit here or there. By your age, you're talking about like duck hunt and legend of Zelda, right? Well, hey, I stretch back to that. I remember the old Atari. I know, man, we're the same age.

I get it. Absolutely. So, no, man, I'm made the transition. I got my call of duty in battlefield occasionally. Oh, nice. I've been big into Battlefield one lately. It's been my jam. It's complicated for me.

Too many buttons. Oh, there's the old man on the porch. Where's? Get out of here. Get off. Did you guys hear? Did you guys hear about, I just saw this video that in the duck hunt is being either was released or is being released as a virtual reality game.

And so you're like with the Oculus or whatever. So you like you get the gun and you're in a total 3D world of playing the classic duck hunt game. I'm excited. I'm looking forward to that Oculus getting up to speed. I'm going to take a look at that for sure. Yeah. Next few years are going to be exciting.

Zombies out there in the world. Like who needs crack anymore? I've got my Oculus. Well, imagine. They're owned by Facebook. right? So imagine the day when you go on Facebook, it just means putting on your virtual reality glasses and just hanging out with your friends and some weird online. I don't know. It's going to be weird. You're scary. All right. My last question of the day, what do you believe sets apart successful real estate investors from all those who give up, fail, or never get started?

I think having a great knowledge base before you delve in. And that includes having a pretty clear idea. what the downsides could be. Once I knew that, that gave me the confidence to wait in and try my first deal and go at it. So that's what I would say. All right. Awesome. Awesome. Cool. All right. Last question for me is where can people find out more about you? Yeah, well, they can check up my site. It's alternative financial medicine.com. There you'll find some cool interviews, including some folks that you guys know, like Nav, Athwall, had a realty shares, that kind of thing, you know, people that I've gotten in my network.

And also on a plug a book of the same title, Alternative Financial Medicine, just released early this week on Amazon where I talk about all these alternative strategies that I'm into. That's awesome. Cool. That's exciting. That's great. That's great. Excellent.

Well, thank you for coming on. We definitely do appreciate it. And we'll look forward to seeing around the Bigger Pockets community. and thanks so much for sharing these alter alter i can't say the damn word alternate real estate investment alternative is that a better word turn it alternative yes alternative rock i don't know all right kenyon thank you so much for being here this is fun all right thanks guys i will see you all right guys that was Dr. Kenyon Meadows. Big thanks again to Mr. Meadows.

That was awesome, man. Yeah, it was. I like learning from people who are doing things a little different than I am. I've never done crowdfunding. I've never done a turnkey. And I've only done a little bit of private lending. So, you know, I'm learning stuff every time I do this show. So very cool.

That's great. That's great. And what you had talked about in the beginning is, you know, even if you don't do that, thinking about it as an investor who might be soliciting a private investor and hearing from his side, just kind of gives you an alternate idea of how to do things. Yeah, alternative assets, just like our guest today talks about. So cool.

Fancy. Yeah, great stuff. Great stuff. Good show. Cool. Yeah, what's the latest man? I feel like I saw a picture of your backyard with like snow in it. Don't you live in Seattle?

Does it ever snow that? We did get a couple inches and it covered everything in some white snow. It was pretty cool. But it's all gone now. Now it's just rain again because that's what we do. Wow. That's pretty awesome, man. Yeah. That's all right. No, it's, I don't know. What's, what's been new in your world? I mean, I haven't even talked to you very much lately. You've been like off like doing like cool CEO things and I've been in my basement chained to where you chained me a few years ago and I haven't left.

That's kind of kinky. I don't know what you do, man. Just don't share it with me. I'm, I'm all right. You know, we've had my, my folks in town for a while due to some family illness stuff. As of today, the date of recording, they have boarded a. plane on their way home. So I want to wish them lots of luck on their journey. But now things are good, man. Just, you know what we saw this past week. I went to an awesome show. It was rain. It was songs of the Beatles. I brought the kids. It was a little late. It was like, what was it, a seven o'clock show. So my six-year-old by nine was out cold. My eight-year-old made it all the way till the end at 10. But it was cool. It was like going back to a 1960s concert, which, you know, obviously I wouldn't know anything about. You wouldn't.

We are both dead then. Are you dead before you're alive? I don't know. How do you say that? I don't know. You're the pastor. Not the pastor. Do you're a youth pastor?

Youth minister? I'm a youth leader. It's a very different thing. Oh, because you couldn't qualify to be a pastor. They wouldn't let me in. Apparently you have to be ordained to be a call a pastor. I don't know. I hope the standards are higher for the youth leader than a minister.

Like, you know, you have our children. at hand. I do. I'm teaching the young and generation how to not be complete screw-ups, you know, working on it. Oh, wow. Maybe we should find another teacher for that one. All right. So if you guys notice today on the show, we did what's called the random five, which is a new segment of the show, that if you listen to the past few episodes of the Bigger Pockets podcast, it's at the variant. After the music plays and everything, you'll find a segment that we hit in there. So if you didn't hear that, go back there and listen. But Josh, I want to ask you a couple of these random five questions. Oh, yeah, go for it.

Let's do it. Number one. What is the strangest date you've ever been on? What is the strangest date you've ever been on? I'm asking you. Oh, the strange date I've ever been on. That's a good question. I didn't do a lot of, oh, you know what?

Strangest date I've ever been on was the first date with my current wife. Really? Yes, we went out and I lived in L.A. we went out to the movies. And back in the day, I was pretty broke and never carried cash. Everything was on my credit card. So we're living in L.A. We go to the movies first.

Or did we go to dinner? We went to dinner first. I bought it on my credit card. Went to the movies. Very financially savvy of you. Good job. Yes. Went to the movies.

And of course, this was one of those, you know, the little movie chains that play the local movies and things like that, you know, artsy movies. And they did not take credit cards. and I had no cash. And it was embarrassing. It was really, really embarrassing. That was the first date. And that is my current wife.

So that's how amazing she is. Who would have ever thought that Josh Dorkin, who had no money for a movie, would someday, I don't know, what did you do in life? Not go to the movies? Yeah, you still go to the movies. Exactly. I had 15 bucks to go see a movie.

Come on. Yeah. Watch it on Red Box later or Netflix or whatever. Yeah, whatever. All right, next one. All right. Next one. If you could,

how about this one? Have you ever set up two friends on a date? How did it go? I don't think I have. Really? Yeah. I've always shied away from connecting people at a fear that I would piss everybody off.

Wow. That's very deep. I'm not sure if that's a, you know, telling of your personality or what? I don't know. It's telling us something. All right. Next one.

Do you have any physical features you try to cloak or hide? How come? Impossible. That's a very personal question. Next question. Next question. Do you secretly, okay, I'll tell Alice. Do you secretly miss Polaroid cameras, the instant cameras?

I, you know, I never used them a lot, but I was at a kid's birthday party the other day and they are actually back. They now have Polaroid cameras again. And they're pretty cool. But no, I don't because the quality was always terrible. It was kind of, but it was kind of fun. But we do it with our phones. We're like, hey, look at there I am. Yeah, but then people never print them out and actually have a physical version of those pictures, which is kind of nice.

Maybe that's the next company that Josh Yorkin makes is an iPhone attachment that prints out your photos like a polar. I'm sure they exist. I'm sure they exist. Do you have any more questions? Okay, I got one more. Last one. How do you engage with panhandlers on the street? Wow.

I would say the majority of time I will acknowledge them, look them in the face and say, sorry, I don't have anything. On occasion, if they look like they're potentially disturbed, I'll just walk by very quickly. And once in a while, I mean, like, you know, when I used to live in New York City and I was always walking with my lunch to work, you know, I'd go to McDonald's or somewhere and pick up a bite. I'd have an extra burger or something and I'd always give it to him. So, yeah, one of a few options, randomly throw money at somebody, not actually throw it like, here you go, it's flying. If you can catch it, you can keep it. Yeah, there you go.

All right, well, good job. I get to ask you next time. So yeah. All right. Well, next time we'll try to remember that. All right. All right. Well, let's get out of here.

All right, guys. Thanks for listening. We're out of here. Take care. Peace. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing,

without all the hype, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer.

The show is produced by Ian K, copywriting is by Calicoe content, and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.biggerpockets.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk. So use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose.

and remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. BiggerPockets LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential, or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast.