BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 230: Real Estate Investing as a Side Hustle with Grammy-Winning Producer Seth Mosley

Episode Date: June 8, 2017

Real estate doesn’t need to be a full-time business, but it can be a fantastic side hustle! That’s the topic on today’s episode of The BiggerPockets Podcast, where we sit down with Seth Mosley, a musical artist and producer (with several Grammy awards to his name!) who invests in rental properties on the side. Seth has a ton of great tips to share today for anyone looking to buy more real estate but not able to spend 40 hours a week doing it. And be sure to listen for his fascinating strategy on how he used a virtual assistant to help find and analyze deals! This show is packed full with tips, stories, and humor, so don’t miss a moment of it! In This Episode We Cover: How Seth started as a music producer, with investing as a side hustle The tax advantages, appreciation, and other reasons why he chose real estate How to know which path to take in real estate investing How you can use 1030 exchanges to buy up to 6 units His portfolio of 20 doors and where he invests How he uses virtual assistants to help him find deals Why you should consider starting an investment club What you should know about S.I.D.E. H.U.S.T.L.E. The importance of focusing on relationships Tips for becoming a part-time investor What’s next for Seth And SO much more! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Events E and S Tile Instagram Josh’s Instagram Profile Brandon’s Instagram Profile Newsboys (Band) DC Talk (Band) Upwork BiggerPockets Podcast 157: A Simple Morning Ritual to Help You Dominate Every Area of Your Life with Hal Elrod BiggerPockets Author Dave Ramsey Books Mentioned in this Show Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert T. Kiyosaki The Checklist Manifesto by Atul Gawande The Miracle Morning by Hal Elrod The ONE Thing by Jay Papasan and Gary Keller Tweetable Topics: “Don’t be too attached just because you lived in it. View it as an investment.” (Tweet This!) “If there’s no door, then just build one.” (Tweet This!) “Just get started and get fancy later.” (Tweet This!) “Don’t look for the cheapest property manager. Look for the best one. Hire slow and fire fast.” (Tweet This!) Connect with Seth Seth’s BiggerPockets Profile Full Circle Music Seth’s Investor Group Facebook Page Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 2.30. So you have to know your philosophy. So set stage, you got to identify your goals and criteria. You have to delegate. That's a big thing if you're doing it as a side hustle. You have to have the right team. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small.

If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on, everybody? This is Josh Dorkin. Host, the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, Mr. Brandon Turner. What's going on, man?

Hey, not much. How you doing? Good to have you back on the podcast. I'm okay. Yeah. Thank you. It's been a few shows. Yeah.

What was I missed? I don't think so, you know. A couple of people said that Scott Trench did really. good though. Wow. Well, I mean, Scott doing well, you know, has nothing to do with me, does it? Scott, trying to make me feel that. I try to make you feel horrible. You're good. No, you're good. Wow. Wow. It's good to have you back. Today's show, especially reminds me why. It was a great show. It was a great show. Reminds me of how good you are at this. You know, you're not a bad podcaster. That is the first nice thing you've said about me in about three months. Thank you. You know, I,

I try to put it on my calendar once every three months to say something nice about you. But, no, today's show was fantastic. It was funny. It was It's really common. Yeah. Quarterly compliment. Yeah, it was a really, really good show. As you know, I mean, we love that. We got into a lot of stuff about like side hustle real estate. In other words, what do you, what if real estate's not your full-time job?

What if it's your side hustle? How do you make that work? Especially Seth, Seth, who is our guest today, talks about the virtual assistant. Like, when he talks about that, like, I thought that's an unbelievably good idea. And also his like, acrostic. Is that what you call him acrostic? That's what he calls it. I don't know.

Whatever that thing is called, like, for side, hustle was amazing. So, yeah, listen up people. Yeah, definitely. And it's good for pretty much everybody in real estate as well. Yeah. By the way, I heard you about an RV. I went out and got me an RV. Yeah. It's pretty awesome looking. I saw a picture on your Instagram and, you know, have you used it yet? I mean, are you an RV? We went out this weekend. We went out this weekend and we boondocked. Wow. You boondock. What does that even mean? So like, you know, it was the holiday weekend. So it was Memorial Day. And, and.

every campsite in the state was booked. Literally every site that you could book was booked. So we went out and we're like, oh, well, let's explore and see if we could find something. So we're driving through this like national forest and just trying to find a spot that you can just camp. And the crazy stuff, we got stuck in mud. We had to like reverse backward down the super curvy muddy road at like 9,000 feet because, you know, it was just a hot mess up there and had a backup.

up through this thing, which in a 25 and a half foot vehicle with no glass behind you is challenging. But it was fun. The kids loved it. My wife loved it. It was a great time. And thank you for asking. And you just celebrated a birthday. Your daughter is now one.

My daughter is now one. We had a birthday party. My wife went all out for it. And my little girl had a good time eating her smash cake, as they call it, apparently. Yeah, that was cute. And you did this bathroom. remodel you're super proud of right i did a bathroom i've remodeled my entire upstairs bathroom i vanity i use this stuff though this is the cool stuff anywhere it's like this wooden tile it's actually reclaimed wood

from like old like it's cool looking yeah and like they actually mesh all this stuff together it looks like a pallet wall but tiny little pieces of wood anyway company i'll give a shout out to them i've no affiliation but e and s tile amazing that's up e and s tile they're on instagram that's how kind of i got excited about i saw the picture on instagram and it's amazing so check it out both you can check out Josh's cool RV and you can check out my cool little bathroom remodel and Rosie's birthday pictures at our Instagram. What's your Instagram? It's J.R. Dorkin, right?

I think it's J.R. Dorkin. Yeah, mine's his beardy brand. And of course, you should be following bigger pockets on Instagram at bigger pockets. Yeah. We've put a lot of stuff on Instagram. I'm a big Instagram fan, you know? I'm starting to get to know it. It's been like a month or two.

And people go crazy on that thing, man. It's really popular. It's so much better than like, I feel like Facebook because there's no like political arguments on there. Like, that's what I like about it. That's a good point. Yeah, I go there to be my happy place and I go to Facebook, I'm an innovative. Anyway. Here's why savvy real estate investors are obsessed with bonus depreciation.

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at NREG.com slash BPPod. That's n-R-E-I-G.com slash B-Pod. For those who guys who are listeners of the show, if you have not yet left us a rating review on iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitch, or wherever you're listening, please do so. That really, really does help us. And before we get into the show, let's bring in today's quick tip. That was the worst ever. That was terrible. All right, today's quick tip is go to the BiggerPockets events page at biggerpockets.com slash events and you can find a local real estate networking event in your area. There's Rias, there's smaller networking events and other types of events happening.

Just go on there. You can even make your own. And you can make your own, exactly. So if there's no event in your area, or if there are events in your area that you don't like or whatever the reason is, just go to biggerpockets.com slash events and you can create your own event. And we talk later in the show about why you might want to start your own. It's fantastic, a really, really great tip that Seth is using to become extremely, extremely well-networked. So pay attention and listen up. With that said, today's guest, Seth Mosley, is a Grammy-winning producer, songwriter, I believe. Singer, the guy has sold tens of millions of albums.

Very, very impressive. Wicked smart. He's real estate investing on the side, doing all sorts of really cool stuff. And he's got a lot of great things to say. So let's bring him on. Let's learn from him. All right, Seth. Welcome to the show, man.

It's good to have you here. Thanks for having me on. I'm a big fan. It's great to be a guest of the infamous Josh Dorkin. Uh-oh. I'm infamous. Infamous. This is not a good start, particularly of your magnitude.

Magist. So, Seth, so Seth, tell us a little bit about yourself. I mean, you and I have been buddies for a little while now. but the rest of the BP audience might not know who you are. We're buddies. Josh just met him today. So here, actually, let me give you a ball of backstory. So about a year and a half ago, Seth emails both Josh and I and says, hey, guys.

I would love to get to know you guys a little better. And, you know, I'm a Grammy Award winning music producer and all this cool stuff. And Josh takes it and he takes the email and he just clicks the little trash button or maybe a spam button, one of the two. Right? Did. But I would. Yeah. Just broken it too.

I think it's a country music. somewhere in there, which is why it went to the trash. I just like, I didn't even see the rest of it. I apologize, Seth. You know, that was, that was me being judgmental. And so. You judgmental. Yeah.

No, but I, I, this isn't awkward or anything. So I responded and I ended up hanging out with Seth. I flew out to Nashville. We hung out for a couple days. And, you know, now me and him are BFFs. And Josh is on the outside. Clearly. I'm on the list, huh?

Brandon even did you sing on a record while you were out? No, I stood in your in your studio and I listened to who was the band unspoken? Unspoken, the lead singer doing some stuff, you know? Yeah, it was very cool. You wanted me to go sing the gang vocals or whatever. Were you trying to feel that there? This is like, this is like kind of just you just had to be there sort of moving. The thing is Brandon left Nashville with a credit on a record for something.

I'm not quite sure. This or when all my friends went to the White House and got to bowl in the White House bowling alley and I didn't make it. That really happened? Yes. This is worse. I would say this is by far worse. By far. Missed opportunity.

There you go. All right. Okay. I'll start this. So tell us a little bit about yourself. I mean, before real estate investing, you know, in a minute or less, what's your story? And where'd you come from? Yeah.

My background. My day job is in music. estate has very much been my side hustle, which I don't know if that makes me an anomaly for your guests or not, but music, I started as an artist toured for over 200 days a year, did the artist think for about five years, had a record deal, had a publishing deal, saw the entire world, got to tour most continents, and eventually got burned out on that, but I met my wife through that in Sweden, which was a good thing. And so obviously when you get married, you want to slow down a little bit and get

off the road. So that's what I did. And so I started a production company and transition to working behind the scenes on the other side of the glass as we call it in the industry. So that's what I do today. I have a production company. It's full circle music. And we have a label. We have a publishing company. But we also started somewhere along the way investing in real estate along the side, just like a lot of people, I think I heard you say at once that a lot of people sort of just back into it where they buy their first place and eventually end up renting that out by their second place, rent that out. So that's kind of our entry into it.

And somewhere along the way, we got turned on to bigger pockets and red rich dad, poor dad. And the rest was history. So. And you're somebody that like people other than me have heard of, correct? I mean, you haven't sold like six albums like Brandon has. What was the name of that failed album, Brandon? I did make an album actually in high school for my parents and they still listen to it in the car. Okay.

We're talking to Seth here. How many records have you sold through your career? Do they even call them records anymore? Yeah. I mean, it's in the tens of millions. I should have had that as a stat, but it's definitely in the eight, high eight figures of. And other things you've worked on or been a, you know, been a part of written. Yeah, exactly.

We've produced. I mean, we've been a part of two Grammy winning records. I got the Billboard Producer of the Year award in 2013 and C-Sax songwriter of the year in 2014. So it's been a really, we're just, yeah, thankful to have a job doing what I love to do. Well, you know what? One thing I love about you and your story is that, like, you love music. And so you work in that and then you do well and then you take that money and you put into real estate. And I tell people that all the time.

Like, if you love real estate, go do real estate. But if you love music, go do music and then just do real estate on the side. I think that's great. So what did you guys do in Nashville that you were able to get him on the show, Brandon? Because, you know, clearly, I don't know. We are BFFs, like I said. He's working down. He's working down.

We can't say, we can't legally speak of those things. Yeah, we should keep that quiet. But, no, so. Next time you come and you'll find out. Hey now. So Seth tells me this email, like I ask him what bands he's worked with or whatever. And he's like, you've probably never heard. of them, like one of them, he says, I wrote something for the newsboys. Now, a lot of our listeners

don't know who the newsboys are, but when I was in high school, like, Dan Rather, right? The newsboys, no, they are a band. They're a Christian band that was like my jam. I mean, like, every album I listened to a million times. So that's like, yeah, you know, I wrote a lot of their songs and helped, you know, produce them. Like that, uh, you know, I jumped on a plane pretty quickly because I'm like, he's a fan, boy. I was a fan boy of the newsboys. I mean, they were my, them and DC Talk were like the best things ever. back in the day. Yeah.

It's all right. Same here. I grew up listening to him. So it's been a, that's why I called my company full circle music because it's my whole life has just been these collections of listening to people growing up listening to them and then getting to work with them later on. So it's a, it's a pretty cool thing.

I'm thankful for. Hey, Seth. So you're extremely successful in the music business, doing fantastic. Why side hustle? Why even do the real estate thing as a quote? side hustle. I mean, clearly you can just park your money somewhere. Why real estate and why the quote side hustle? Yeah. Well, I for one, I mean, we kind of started out like a lot of people just, you know, handing our money off to the financial advisor, putting in mutual funds, doing stuff like that.

And I think for us, it's just you have so little to zero, almost zero control over what happens with that. and I think I had just seen enough other people close to me, just get burned in that. And our big thing has always been cash flow. I mean, we love what we do, like Brandon said, but we want to have our living, essentially. If I decided I never wanted to produce another record again or sign another artist again, I wouldn't have to because our cash flow from our real estate investments would take care of us. That's always been our vision. It still is.

So every success that we have in music, we kind of just turn around and dump it into real estate because I love the tax advantages for one because me as a, as a, you know, technically a small business owner, we're the ones that get hit the worst. So for us, we love the tax advantages of real estate. I love the cash flow of real estate. It just helps us sleep a little better at night. And I know that if we didn't have a record, because music is such a roller. coaster, it's like you guys have talked to probably some athletes and stuff, but it's so up and down. So a lot of people who are like the hottest thing ever could, you know, the next day be nothing. So for us, it's, I don't want to say it's motivated by fear, but I'd rather think it's just being smart.

Yeah. Of, you know, I don't know what the future of the music industry is going to be in five years. So we feel like we're doing the smart thing by trying to sort of diversify. so to speak, out of the music business and just take our success there, invest in real estate, and let that generate cash flow. That's awesome. All right. So you're the successful guy.

You're thinking real estate's a great way to kind of bring in some decent income. How do you decide which path to take? In terms of within real estate? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, like I said, we've started just residential because we owned our first little townhome. I had my studio in it. We ended up renting that out. So we learned residential pretty early on.

We felt like it was pretty easy. We managed our first, I think, two to three units after we bought a couple more by ourselves. So I'm a big believer and just kind of invest in stuff that you know and understand and has very basic human value or human needs. So for us, commercial has never really been something I've been that interested in, aside from, you know, owning. the studio, but it's, it's as Amazon kind of takes over and everything is going online, I just think that the physical retailers are going to get hit harder than ever and already are. Yeah.

Yeah. So for us, residential has just been the, the thing that we know. And it's hard right now. It's hard to find deals. I mean, we live in Nashville. A lot of our investments are in other cities other than Nashville, just because it's gotten so hot. You know, it just doesn't make any sense anymore.

So, yeah, Nashville is one of the highest. I think it's like one or two of the, I think it's like Denver and Nashville are like the two highest, maybe Austin thrown there as well in terms of the last couple years have just grown. I think I heard, yeah, there was like 29% in a year in Nashville or something crazy like that. It's ridiculous. Yeah, it's crazy. So let's go back and talk about it.

So first of all, you mentioned your first deal was a house you lived in, then you moved out of it and turned it to rental, right? Is that right? That's right. So we did a survey a while back on the Bigger Pockets 4. forums where a bunch people all, you know, answered a few questions. And one of them was, how did you get your first deal? And it was like 80% or something.

I don't remember the exact number, but it was like 80 or 85% of people started that way of turning their home into a primary residence. And I mean, I started that way, sort of, like after my first one, I flipped and turned into rental the next one. Like, do you have any advice for people who do that? Like, people who are listening to the show right now thinking, you know, I kind of want to move. I want to buy a new house.

I'm not sure if I should sell mine or rent it out. Do you have any advice or tips for those people? Well, here's what I'll say. I mean, we learned sort of backwards with what makes a really good real estate investment. Our first two that we bought, including the one that we lived in, wasn't necessarily maybe the best in terms of cash flow. I think we bought it. It was like a $220,000 town home. And what we could get for rent for it was like $15 or $16,100.

You guys talk a lot about the 1% rule. I mean, it didn't really meet that when you kind of. especially once you factor in HOA and everything. It was great for us in terms of appreciation because it shot up so much. So we did make money on it. But the thing that I'll say is just don't be too attached just because you lived in it. Like if you can have a good emotional distance from it, just view it as an investment, view it as a cash flow stream, then you're able to part with it easier.

So for us when we sold it, we were able to, you know, 1031 into, I don't know, I think four or maybe six other units of property that cash flow way better now. That's awesome. For those people, don't know what that means at 10. What did you mean by that? So 1031 is in the tax code where you can essentially sell a piece of property and exchange it into a like kind.

And the IRS lets you essentially defer paying any tax on your gain. So it's a great tool for investors to just keep upgrading and upgrading and upgrading without paying any tax on the game. He's not just a singer, folks. He also works to the IRS. The Internal Rock Service. That's what I'm talking about. Yes.

So you decided to take this 1030, you want it into four to six other units. Are you buying multi-units or are you buying single families? What's your, what's your MO? Currently, it's pretty focused on multi. I just, I mean, again, you can, you can, the cash flow that you can get ratio-wise compared to just a single family is usually so much better. We do have a few single families in our portfolio just, you know, if we ever needed to sell them,

we could sell them pretty easy. But I love the kind of the diversification that you go with multifamily. If you have a quadplex and one person moves out, it's not killing you, you know? Yeah. So at this point, that's kind of what I'm focused on. So let's fast forward to the end of, like to today. and then we'll work backwards again. We'll go back to the beginning.

But like total units now, what have you got for a number of units today? So we have, we currently have 20 doors. And yeah, that's where we're at right now. And what's that made up of mostly, you said mostly multifamily? Was it one big one in there? And he's like, what's the biggest in there? No, it's the biggest that we have in there is a fourplex. Okay.

So it's a lot of duplex. Several duplexes. There's a few single families. There's one fourplex. And that's really it. And where are you? And where are they? Although you said some are in Nashville, but some are other places.

Summer in Nashville, we have some in Chattanooga. We've really, really liked that market lately. It's been a good, I guess a good place to look when deals are not there in Nashville. We have a few of Memphis, and then we have four units up in Clarksville, Tennessee as well. Okay. So all of them are within a few hours drive of you. I don't know how big Tennessee is. Yeah, all of them.

The farthest would be Memphis. So that's, you know, a three hour. drive over there. Okay. And what about like these properties? Did you buy them all like through turnkey companies or did you go research it yourself and and how'd that come about? You know, funny enough, I've bought two of them through a good turnkey company in Memphis. I'm, I'm definitely a fan of that model, especially if you're looking to be 100% hands off. What I found is the returns maybe aren't is typically as good, but you really have to do nothing on it. So a couple of them were through that, but the rest were through just sort of relationships. I'm a big believer in

team and just going and building a team. So with Chattanooga, we, myself along with my broker in Nashville, just took a trip over there and met with several, you know, brokers. And one of them was a property manager, runs about three to 400 units over there, kind of a family business. So the first deal I found in Chattanooga, for a while, I was using virtual. assistance, literally just to do market research. And all they were doing was just scouring the MLS and Real Tracks or whatever. And they would analyze all these deals and send me a Google Doc once a week. And the first deal I bought in Chattanooga was off of that. Really? Can you explain that a little detail? I want to dig in on that for sure. Yeah. Yeah. So it's funny. I think we bought two deals like

that. They would essentially send me, I trained them. I think it was a guy in, I think he was in Malaysia. And I sent him essentially what we look for in terms of criteria, sent him our Excel sheet, which was essentially our investment calculator similar to, you know, what you guys have on, on Bigger Pockets Pro membership. So I sent him that and he would just run deals. He would call the, the agents for me and get the property taxes. what were the utilities on it? Was it currently managed? Does it currently have tenants in it?

And he would just put it all into a Google sheet for me and would send it to me once a week. And then once I found one that I felt like met my criteria, then I would send it to our broker and property manager in Chattanooga. She'd go check it out. And the first one we did was through that. And that's been a good property. It's ended up bringing in some pretty,

good returns. I love that. Seth, yeah, that's fantastic. Anyone listening, like, if you're, if you're talking about, oh, I can't do this, I don't have the time, you know, do what Seth did. Yeah. You know, and there are sites like Upwork where you can really quickly and easily find virtual assistance to do this kind of stuff for you. When you talk, you had mentioned flying your broker and building your team. Could we talk about that for a quick second? So, yeah. What did your team look like at the time? I mean, really, my team was essentially me, my wife, and our broker and our virtual assistant, and then our property managers slash broker over in Chattanooga.

On that deal, that was really all you need. I always say start with a property manager first because they're the ones that have to deal with it. I kind of learned the hard way on it on one deal where I bought. And I kind of found the deal. I think it was through that same method, just through, searching MLS with virtual assistance. I had ran it. The numbers looked great.

And then I got into the deal, made an offer. And then by the time I was in the deal pretty far along, I was like, oh, I should probably have my property manager go look at it. And they went and checked it out. And they were like, sure, we'll do it. They were, I could tell they weren't like maybe 100% pumped with it. But I was like, they could probably make it work, you know. But to me, if all you have starting out as a broker and a property manager,

that's kind of all you need. I mean, you eventually want to add, obviously, your accountant, your bookkeeper as things grow. Yeah. But in the beginning, you're just getting started out, the property manager, to me, is everything. Why fly the broker out? Was it to help you vet the brokers locally on the ground?

Was that the reason? No, he went over with me. I mean, he does a lot of, he works with a lot of investors outside of me. And he's the guy that I co-founded my, investors meet up in Nashville with. Got it. Who also plays for that band that Brandon sang on his record. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Mike.

Did you actually sing on somebody's record? No, I, not a, well, no. He sang in the room. Yeah. We at least take the credit for it. Get out of here. Wow. Nobody's going to buy that album.

I'm sorry to tell you. Haven't they sold like a lot of albums? I don't know. I think, I think that one's sold. That song's probably sold to 300,000 by now. Brandon, have you been collecting royalties on that? I have not been getting royalties on that. Well, this is a good opportunity to negotiate that while we're on the air here with Seth.

You need to register with AFDR and you could actually get paid for it. That's funny. That's funny. Oh, yeah. All right. You mentioned something in passing just now, which Brandon and I had talked about. And I want to dig in on that. So you had taught, I mean, I know guys were all over the place, but, you know, this is how it goes.

It bounces around. you talked about starting an investment club with this guy. Yeah. Why would you start an investment club? I'm sure there were other clubs in the area. Why do you say, hey, it's time for me to go and do this? Well, I think it was, I had come from another real estate event and just honestly had seen my success in my associations, my relationships, just people I could call for feedback. just go through the roof just since meeting people through that.

So to me, everything is relational. And in Nashville, we have Ria, we have Wren, we have a lot of the meetups, the same that a lot of cities have. And me and my wife had went to him for a while, but none of them were very focused on education and networking. It was all kind of plugging deals. Here's what I got. And we felt like it was a little bit self-serving.

So we wanted to start our own that did it differently. and we were just very open-handed with relationships, with education. That's bringing in guys like, you know, yourself, Brandon, to come and speak to our group. I wasn't invited. Yeah. Keep going. Next time. But honestly, the relationships that I have just from starting that, and same with my partner, Michael, who we started it with.

I mean, his business has shot through the roof since we've started it. He has nine brokers that are working underneath him now and is servicing a lot. of investors. So I think for us, it was just a, you know, start, give first, give first, give first. We never really sell anything. That's kind of one of our rules at the group. Nothing's ever run to the back of the room kind of deal. So we have tried really hard to protect that. And on a selfish level, I get to hang out with speakers that come. Like, for me, it's like hanging out, you know, with guys like you and some of my other real estate mentors. Like for the day surrounding it is huge.

Yeah. So that's awesome. It's purely a relational thing for me. So, you know, we mentioned upfront in the quick tip, but I'm going to mention it again here. This is a brilliant idea. Even if there are groups in your area, having your own group now, obviously not everybody in an area is going to have a group and not everybody's built to actually run a group. But creating a group puts you at the center, right? Yeah. And there's something about there, something extremely powerful about that because it does tend to help you make additional relationships.

It does help you build trust. Obviously, don't abuse it, but it helps you build trust. It helps you build connections. So for those people listening, you know, if there's no groups in your area, we definitely recommend starting one. If there is a group in your area and it's not great, start your own group. If there's a few and they're, you know, so start your own group. It's a good opportunity to get out there and meet people. And as we mentioned before, go to bigger pockets slash events and you can actually promote the group and get other people to show up.

What advice would you give to somebody who's looking to do that? And any tips on how to run a good group? Well, there's two things I throw out. Number one is if there's no, if there's no, to piggyback on what you just said, if there's no door, then just build one. I'm a big believer in that. I'm also a big believer in just get started and get fancy later. It's a little counterintuitive for me being in production, music production, perfectionists. We want the first thing to be amazing.

But our first group, we literally started in a coffee shop in the back room. They didn't charge us any rent. It was just 18 people that I had texted. All of them showed up. I didn't think that was going to happen. and then it's turned into, you know, I think we had 70 people show up at our last one. Awesome. And we've been able to get, you know, local sponsors.

But don't start with trying to think you have to have everything together in production, signage, logo. I mean, you don't have to have all that stuff. But just get started. I'm a big believer in Facebook, Facebook page, start a Facebook page. You can run ads and promote your events and boost posts and things like that. We do Facebook lives at all of our events too. So I would say for people out there thinking about starting and really take advantage of the build-in stuff for free that Facebook gives you to promote it. And use bigger pockets.

Definitely use that as well. Awesome. I love that. Well, cool. Well, let's go back to talking about your real estate deals again. And when you look for a property now, what are you looking for? Like, what's your criteria that says, yeah, that's a good deal? Yeah.

Just in specifics in terms of numbers. Sure. Yeah. I mean, are you looking for a certain type of cash flow or cash on cash return or how do you kind of decide? Yeah. So if it's a deal that's across our table, we really try to stay pretty close to 15% cash on cash return after reserves are taken out after money set aside after property managers and principal tax interest insurance, all that stuff, about 15%. We don't necessarily lose. look for appreciation that much.

It's always a little bit of icing on the cake. Higher price properties are always good just for the depreciation element of it. Can you explain that? Well, you want to buy, I mean, you want to buy that if your strategies for depreciation because you can depreciate a residential property over 27 and a half years, that's a huge thing for people out there who are needing a tax shelter for their passive income. So, I mean, the more expensive a property you buy, the more depreciation you can take every year over that 27 and a half years. So that's always a thing. I mean, we have done the,

you know, $60,000 properties before if the cash flow is good enough. But I think at this point, we're looking to get into bigger, bigger deals with more doors, higher dollar, just so we can really maximize the depreciation. And really the only other criteria is we have to be in a market where I have a good team. The market has to have fundamentals. And I don't really do anything in like any market that's like smaller than like 100,000 or 200,000 people preferably just for stability. You're not going to come out invest in podunk, Washington. I'm not going to invest in podunk, Washington.

Oh. Hey, what about like fixers? Are you buying, you know, finished properties or are you actually rehabbing these things up? We do a little bit of rehab. As long as I've got, again, my property managers usually oversee all of that. But nothing that's ever been like a gut. The only thing we've done like that have been the turnkey deals where they've completely rehabbed the whole thing and then we just buy it from them. Got it. Awesome. I, I, I, I, we always joke in my family, my wife, I'm, she's very much the handyman. And, uh, I'm not allowed to hang anything. It's, it's pretty embarrassing, actually. So. That's awesome. All right. Well, so you talked about, I really want to talk about this topic of the part time investor thing because you talked about already the virtual assistant.

I think that's fantastic. And one thing I especially love about that is, uh, so if people attend bigger pockets webinars, you'll know what I'm about to say because I say it. every single week. But this idea that real estate isn't so much about like doing this one thing. Like I'm going to go send out a thousand direct mail letters. It's about a process where if you send out a thousand direct mail letters every single month, it's like processes that get you success, not one-time events. Right. So what I love about hiring like a virtual assistant is even though we all know if you were

to go on and go on the MLS and start, you know, searching for properties and then analyzing them, calling up the brokers, getting the deals, running the numbers, determining how much to pay, and then making those. offers, we all know that that works. But the problem is none of us do that because we're busy, right? Most of us, like, have jobs and family and life. But when you get somebody else to do that, like, it takes, you know, 90% of the workload off of you. So somebody else is working your processes. And then you just do the part that that you do, right? So again, I love that. But what else other tips you have for people who work a full-time job or own their own business and

they want to invest in real estate on the side? I think there's, several things I always talk about. I mean, I actually came up with a little, even an an acrostic for it for side hustle that I sort of have shared with some of the people from our group. But I always say you got to set the stage, your personal investment philosophy, write it down. No, just like you asked, like, why do I invest in real estate? What's my criteria? You have to know that stuff before you go into.

Otherwise, every deal that comes across your. table you're going to be looking at. But it's a good way to just filter really quickly. So you have to know your philosophy. So set stage, you got to identify your goals and criteria. You have to delegate. That's a big thing if you're doing it as a side hustle. You have to have the right team. And again, virtual assistance. I mean, that's like the most amazing thing. You mentioned Upwork. I used to use one called Elance, which I think is up. I think it's Upwork now. But, uh, yes.

So I'm a big, big believer in Upwork. You got to make it easy. Like the big thing with a lot of us is, as people doing it on the side is we don't have our financial documents all in one place. Like every time we go to apply for financing or something, it's like, oh, I got to get my last two months of blah, blah, blah, blah, tax returns. And it always takes forever. So if you can just, it's, that's, that's.

sounds that's kind of like a no brainer thing, but a lot of people, including myself, have not had that together. And then when it comes time to get the deal, it takes you forever to compile everything. So just make it easier on yourself by having all your stuff in just like one drop box folder or a Google Drive or,

uh, something like that. So those, I don't know why I don't have that right now. Like, like I have all my paperwork just in drawers, but I should have all of my tax returns and everything in one. one Google Drive folder.

Like I, my entire life's in Google Drive. Why don't I have that? I don't know. I never thought about it before. So then when I need to apply for a loan, it's just I share that folder with a lender and let them take what they want from it. What's your password,

Brandon? All right. I'm setting that up today because that's, that's huge. All right. So I, by the way, I really like the side hustles.

You got, so do you remember the hustle? Yeah. Yeah. All right. So that's the stage, identify, delegate. Delegate.

Delegate and ease. Make it easy. All right. So what else? What's hustle? Hustle is a hire a good bookkeeper. Trust me, it's worth it. I made this mistake in the beginning.

Like, I never hired a bookkeeper. And to this day, I still struggled with my bookkeeping because I don't have that, like, I didn't have somebody set it up in the beginning. Here's what's funny. Brandon has been complaining about bookkeeping at least the four years that we've been doing the show. And he's always like, oh, I'm going to do it. Hey, hold on. I promise you, at the end of the show, I'm not a bookkeeper hired.

I'm doing it. I try. I tried like three times. Finally, like, just nobody could do what I needed them to do. I haven't went to a bookkeeper and he laughed at me. Are there really that few people in Podunk who know how to do six plus seven? I'm not kidding. I brought it to this like bookkeeper and he goes, no, man, no.

That's what he said to me. Like he wouldn't even take my books. Anyway, we have it in house now. My assistant actually does all the books and it's fine. That's good. But I'm still like overseeing her. So when she has questions, she has to ask me versus a bookkeeper who just hopefully knows how to do the books. So anyway.

Yeah. All right. Hire a bookkeeper. Hire a property manager. I mean, you just really, again, that goes back to the team thing. But just hire those, get them in place. Hire a good one too. I think a lot of people like cheap out in this area.

And they're like, okay, who can I get the best deal on when you should really just be like, who's going to do it the best? Because ultimately the ones that are going to give you the best deal, quote unquote, are the cheapest ones. They're probably going to cost you money in the long run because they're not going to have their crap together and it's just going to be a mess. So hire you as you is upgrade.

Don't look for the cheap. Again, don't look for the cheapest property manager. Look for the best one. And along that note, hire slow, fire fast. If you're not happy with your current people, just fire them, move on to the next one. Can I upgrade my co-host? You can upgrade them.

You can upgrade them. I'll apply for the position. There you're hired. Well, that was a really fast hire. Higher, slow. Higher, fast. Oh, damn it. You've already got it backwards.

All right. Higher, good bookkeeper, upgrade, and then S? I have to say stay. Stay with one asset class. Pick one and stick to it. A lot of people are like, oh, I think I'll buy a duplex. And then I'll buy an industrial park. And then I'll buy it.

Shrull, squirrel. Yep. Exactly. So manage your ADD. T, I put 10 to your properties. You got to make sure that your managers are doing regular, just routine maintenance. Again, a lot of this stuff's kind of no-brainer, but we just, as a side hustle, you don't think about it because it's like, oh, crap, I forgot I got to, you know, fix the HVAC or maintain it

or whatever, you know. So just make sure that you're in regular communication with them and just even have like good checklists that this happens. Again, you said processes. I love that. Just having them every six months. this happens, this happens, this happens. Have you read the checklist manifesto either of you?

Yep. It's a good book. I haven't. I haven't, but I just wrote it down. Yes. The checklist manifest. And then there's just the two more is legal. You got to make sure that your entity structure is properly set up.

This one probably has the most like gray area and people that would argue over it. Like what's the proper? Like should I put my stuff in LLCs? How do you protect it? And if you ask any attorney, they'll tell you to, if you ask an accountant, they'll tell you not. It's just, you know, but for me, if it's a side hustle, I want to make sure that my music ventures are in no way affected by anything that happens in any one of my properties. Yeah. And you have, you've got other things going on.

You've got wealth already outside of what you're doing here. A lot of people who come in, you know, they don't have a lot of money in their bank account. you know, the discussion is going to be a lot different than somebody who has wealth or a business or other net worth to start with. But obviously, talk to your accountant and your lawyer to get advice on what to do there. Exactly. I think, you know, on that note real quick, like, that's probably the number one question I get from people all the time is what do I do about entity thing? And my kind of answer is like, I mean, first of all, we don't know. We're not lawyers of CPAs.

However, like, if that's what's stopping you from getting involved in real estate, make a decision and just do it, right? Like, don't be like, I've been wanting to get in real estate for months now. I just don't know what to do about the LLC thing. Like, schedule an appointment today with a lawyer, get it taken care of, and tomorrow you can go invest in real estate. But people just use it as an excuse, I think, because it's a lot easier to say,

I don't know what to do on my LLC than it is to say I'm afraid to buy a piece of real estate. Like the bookkeeper thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all excuses. All right. So legal. What's the E?

E is just execute. Keywords prioritization, if you're going to make it happen. I mean, I think people plan for X and live like they want Y. So you need to wake up early. And if you can't find time to do it, I'm a big believer in that. You guys had a Miracle Morning Guy on your show. I love that. Yeah, I got turned on to that.

So just prioritizing, making time. And again, the calendar. Like, your calendar will tell me if you're a real estate investor. So don't just say you are. Just put it on your calendar and make time for it to happen. Yeah. That's cool. That's my acrostic.

I like it. Set the stage. Identify criteria. Delegate and easy. And then hire, upgrade, stay with one asset class or, let's say, tend to your properties, legal and execute. Fantastic, man. That is really unbelievably great.

Yeah, that's cool. Should I write a book, Brandon? You should write a book and we'll call it Side Hustle by Seth Mosley. This is a great idea. Doing out, Bigger Pockets Publishing 2019. I'm always looking for new authors. We are. What's the URL?

Do you know, Josh, the URL of people want to pitch a book to Bigger Pockets publishing? I think it's... Kimberly at Bigger Pockets, maybe? You can email Kimberly. I think she's actually has a page. I think it might be such authors. Let me... Bigger Pockets.

Anyway. You're going to write. You're going to write it for me, though, right? Exactly. I write the whole thing. I'm a ghostwriter. That's what I do. Well, he's looking that up.

So bringing this all back together before we move on to the next part of the show here. What's your biggest mistake in real estate so far? I'll use my, I kind of briefly touched on it before, but I bought a property that was an eight unit. I would say it's probably a D class, which again, I probably would not ever buy one of those again. knock on wood. But I bought it without, I've made an offer on it, got it under contract

without having a property manager go walk through it, check it out, look up all the stuff surrounding it, you know. And we ended up holding it for about a year, trying to get it fixed up. It ended up just being so much trouble

and cost a ton of money. And we ended up just kind of fire selling it for a little bit less than we, paid for it. So that was my one and only time that I've lost a decent amount of money in real estate. But to me, that was my kind of hell story of just having that, having that terrible property. But I feel like I would have avoided it if I had just, number one, had a property manager in place on the first end of it. If you're going to do any low end property, you either have to just have tons of time on your hands, or you have to have a property.

property manager who knows that inside and out and loves doing that. That's not always going to save you because I got burned even though I had that on the low end stuff. So yeah, yeah, I mean, I think to your point, stay away from the super low end unless you're handy and have lots and lots of resources to plow into said low end property. Yeah, that's exactly right. So you win or you learn. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.

So, by the way, going back, if people have book ideas, they want to pitch the Bigger Pockets Publishing, biggerpockets.com slash author, A-U-T-H-O-R. So, cool. All right. So before we head out of the fire round, Seth, where are you headed, do you think, with your real estate investing?

Like what's the next 5, 10, 20 years look like? I think for me, it's, it's, I mean, we've talked a little bit about this, but the syndication thing, I mean, now that we have our group of investors, I think a lot of them are kind of like, again, I never wanted to start a group to sell deals or pitch deals or anything, but it's sort of naturally turned into people coming to me and say, or me and Michael and saying, hey, do you have anything I can invest in? And so far we've just been able, we haven't been able to help anybody with that. So I think syndication is going to be the next stage of it.

I actually, to contradict my S part of the side hustle. I was about to call you out too. which is awesome. Stay. Exactly. So we've been in it for, I don't know, five, six years. So I feel like we're, you know, we're okay. But we're interested in mobile home parks.

So we've talked a little bit about this, just really kind of out of necessity. Multi-family is what I would love to do. But where it's at right now, I mean, people just aren't buying deals. And if they are, they're, they scare me a little bit. to get into it as an investor. But syndication definitely, I think, is going to be the next phase of it. Just bringing some other folks along for some of the things that we're doing. That's awesome.

And I think you're not really violating your own stay thing. I think it's more like, hey, I just flipped a house. Oh, now I'm going to buy and hold a house. Oh, now I'm going to go in wholesale a house. Oh, now I'm going to go and stay with one, figure out what you're doing, get your at it is kind of what you're saying with your stay, right? Exactly. Yeah, just focus. Because there's no way to get good at something without just putting you in your 10,000 hours.

And you're not going to get it if you're hopping from one thing to the next. It's so true. So, that was awesome. So we're not done though. We got some more questions coming up. We got the Fire Round next. We've got the Famous Four. And then after this, we've got the Random Five, which we'll do a little bit later.

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to say to answer them. So number one, with the market at an all-time high, should I start selling off my rental properties or hold onto them longer? I think that depends on your personal investment philosophy. Mine is to just never sell. Only, I mean, we sold our first few because we sort of learned what our criteria were after the fact. But other than that, I think our philosophy is just, yeah, never sell. So to me, markets are going to have ups and downs unless you feel like you're selling to 1031 it into something better, if you can find something that's better, then to me there's no reason to sell it. It's just, if you're a lot of it, it's just, if you're If you're not happy with it, sell it.

And I also love the zero-based thinking. I mean, knowing what you know now, would you buy this property today? And if not, if you're having trouble with it, then sell it, you know? That's really, you told me that ago, I don't know, three months ago or something like that. You said that exact thing to me. And that changed my thinking a lot because I started looking at my properties going, you know, I wouldn't buy this one and this one again based on what I know now. So I'm selling both those because they don't make good cashful.

But I have some equity I can put into something else. So anyway, you changed my thinking on that a lot. lot. Do I get a percentage for that? I'll give you a high five or something. How do you apply that on a property that's appreciated? So you got in early, you bought it, you know, let's say you paid 200,000 over a few years. The thing's gone up to 300K at 300K. It doesn't make sense as a cash flow investment anymore if you were to buy it at that price, but a 200 made a lot of sense. How does that kind of line of thinking working in an example like that? I mean, it's all what is what is it worth on paper? I mean, the utility of it doesn't change.

I think you're going to inherently have that in terms of dollar values. And if you, yeah, if you need the cash or if you have something better that you can 1031 it into, then yeah, take advantage of that. But if not, I mean, in 10 years from now, if the market crashes, it's still going to be a three-bedroom to Beth House and somebody will pay you something for it. And so I don't know. I'm just not, I don't really pay. too much attention, me personally, too

appreciation. Yeah. And I know everybody's got different investment philosophies, but always try to encourage people to not bank their careers or their investing careers on that. It just, to me, is the more conservative way to go about it. I agree. I like that. I like that method. All right. Next

question. I have about $27,000 in mostly credit card debt and have about $700 a month extra each month in income above my expenses. So should I spend the next couple of years paying off that debt or invest in real estate instead? Shop a hollick. Man, I hate credit card debt, so I would say pay off the credit card debt. I think there's, I'm from Dave Ramsey land. I actually can see Dave Ramsey's house from my house, but he would tell you the same thing.

He would say pay off the credit card debt, and I would agree with him. Right on. And you should go knock on his door and come on the Bigger Pockets podcast. I should get him on. By the way, if anybody listening to this show knows Dave or, you know, close members of his family, you know. Oh, jeep. You know, we will use whatever leverage we need to get him on the show. I would love to have him state his case.

We'd love to have Dave. We would love to have Dave. So I met him at a Titans game once. So I'll see if I can get invited to his thing. Go back to the game. I'll go back and see if I can get them. Nice. All right.

Next question. I have about $150,000 to invest. Is it too much of a jump to get started by buying an apartment complex instead of starting small? No, not at all. I think, well, if it kills you, if it goes south, then yeah, it probably is too big of a jump. But if it's just $150,000, it's just laying around where if you lost it all learning, then would it kill you?

And if it didn't, then no, I wouldn't think it's too big of a jump. a jump at all because I feel like you guys have talked about it on the show some that, I mean, it's really the same amount of work to manage and to own a 50 unit or 100 unit property as it is to own and manage a single family because it's all about scale. And so, I mean, honestly, like, I wish I would have started with more units, you know. It's kind of the same principle. Well, let's transition that to our last question, which is if you could go back in time, to when you started out, what would you do differently?

Man, I think it all goes back to the team thing, the relational element of it. I started the investors group after I had already been doing it. I guess I wish I would have started that before. I wish I would have focused more on the criteria, you know, figuring out what stuff works for us. Why are we in this long term and established a good team before we even bought our first deal? But, you know, it's ready fire aim for me. So I don't have a ton of regrets, honestly. I mean, the only regret that I have is that eight unit.

But even then, you learn. So. Yeah. Yeah. When I look at the crappy properties I own, I don't regret them. I wouldn't buy them again today. But I don't regret them because they taught me so much stuff. That's going to help me out later.

Yeah. So I'm right there with you. Right on. All right. Well, let's, let's head over to. The next segment of the show, which we call our Famous for. All right.

These are the same four questions. We ask every guest every single week. And Seth, I know you've heard the show, so you probably know what's coming. But number one, what's your favorite real estate related book? I'm going to be cliche and just say rich, dad, poor dad. Even though it's not technically a real estate book, it got my mind thinking in that way. Right on. Favorite business book, non-real estate.

One thing, Gary Keller. Excellent book. Right on. Very good. Hobbies. What do you do for fun outside of music, outside of real estate? Pretty much hanging out with my family. That's anything that involves family stuff. I don't know if that counts as a hobby or if that's just. Sure, it does. But anything that's family related, we love going to Sweden. My wife is from Sweden. So we're kind of travel junkies. We travel a ton and love snowboarding.

Nice. Where do you snowboard? Well, it's been a while. The last place I snowboarded was in the great mountainous state of Indiana. Oh, wow. How about them apples? I was thinking you'd pick somewhere else, but okay. Okay.

It's like a six-foot vertical. Yeah, exactly. We've got a trip plan to Sweden because they've got some nice mountains up there. Nice. You should come to Denver and we'll go skiing in the mountains out here at this winter. I'll just bought my ticket. Yeah, buddy. Done.

Nice. That was nice. I hope I'm invited. All right. Number four. I've seen you on skis. Yeah, you don't want to see me. I will sit in the lodge or the chalet, is that what they call them?

And I will drink my peppermint hot chocolate from Starbucks and I'll be enjoying that. All right. Number four, what do you believe sets apart successful real estate investors from those who give up, fail or never get started? again, I probably sound like a broken record, but it's team. To me, it's like, who do you have around you? You're the average of the five people that you most associate with. I just think it's all about people. It's not about the property.

It's about the people. Like, who do you have around you? Who's your team that's managing it for you? Who are the people that you're advising to? Do you have people that are actually telling you the truth? Or do you have people that are just telling you what you want to hear? It's a great one. So it's all about, yeah, who is,

who you surrounding yourself with. Awesome. All right, Seth, before we let you go, where can people find out more about you for those of us who have been hiding in a cave or me? And how can people connect with you if they want to do that regarding real estate or music? Yeah, so I'll talk about two things.

The first is our investors group. You talked about that a little bit. It's called Music and Money Investors Group. We don't really have much of a formal website because Facebook is so awesome. So you can literally just hop on our Facebook page. I think it's just music and money investors group. And you can message me there. I usually try to answer on that. And you can hear more about our, you know, upcoming groups. It's always first Wednesday

of every month. It's free meetup. And then on the music side, it's just full circle music.com. So I guess if there's people out there that are interested in learning more about what we do on that side, full circle music.com. That's where you can find us. And where do I send my demo tape to? Because I got this thing recorded. It's really good. Yeah, about that. Josh is doing background vocals on it, so it's really good. Do you really want the answer to that? Because we actually do have a demo submission.

Yeah, sure. You might as well. Yeah, I just send it to support at full circlemusecumnsic.com. And we really do try to go through. We have several people that listen to demos regularly. So who knows, you may have the next huge rock star out in your audience. We do get a royalty on any music. sick.

There are you. That comes through bigger pockets. There you go. I think that's great. Anyway, I love it. So getting out of here. Thank you, man. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

We really appreciate it. I certainly regret not having gone down to Nashville or trash in your email, whichever is the truth. I'm not quite sure. But thanks, man. Really, really do appreciate it. It's been a lot of fun. Well, the invitation still stands.

I'd love to have you both come at some point. So whenever you're, you know, have your free time, which you have, I'm sure a ton of. Yeah. Let me check my calendar. Awesome, man. Thank you, Seth. That's awesome. We'll see you guys.

We'll see you guys. We'll see you guys. All right, guys, that was Seth Mosley. Big thanks again to Seth. Man, that was awesome. Really, really. It was a good show. That was a good show.

I love that guy. Like I said, one of my BFFs. So, yeah. I learn a lot from stuff. Every time I talk to him, we talk every, we talk every couple of couple weeks and we just, I don't know, I learn every time I talk to him, cool little things. Like his little advice on like, you know, if you wouldn't buy it again, maybe you shouldn't keep it. Like he told me that and I was like, you're right. Like these properties were good to buy

when I, they taught me a lot, but now I'm going to get rid of them because I wouldn't buy them again. And it just clears up my head for the actual good purchases. Well, and if you think about it, so many people perseverate over things like that, oh, that, you know, I know that you and I I've talked about one or two of your properties that you hold on to and you're like, yeah, I don't know why I keep it, but I got it. And, you know, like, selling them. Sell it, right? I mean, why not?

The tenant is out today, supposedly. Actually, from both of my kind of hell properties, tenants are leaving today. Tenants are leaving. So we're listening to it next week. There is something nice about letting go of a hell property. It is. I know. I'm very excited.

By the way, last Friday, I put a house on the market. I flipped one and I put on the market. And within just shows how crazy our market is. Yeah, within 24 hours or. 12 hours. We had two offers came in, both full priced, one cash, two week closing. They just want it. Now I'm like, I should have gone higher. But it's a very cool thing to be able to sell properties and be in demand. I got to tell you, though, I had a conversation with my parents recently, and they've got a property they're trying to sell. And, you know, it's been like a month

and they haven't had a lot of showings. And I'm like, guys, if you're not having a lot of showings, or you're not getting any offers, you're probably not being aggressive enough with the price. And, you know, like your parents don't ever want to listen to you. They don't. It's like, no, come on. So, you know, got into a big argument with my mom and, you know, now I feel terrible about it.

But still, it's like, you guys, listen to me. I know what I'm talking about. That's funny. The market is fantastic. Like, you've got to be a little more aggressive with your price. Yeah, you don't have to. You just may not sell it. Yeah.

Or you'll have to do drop, you know, price reductions, which are never good for, you know, they're just not helpful. Yeah, if you're not selling in today's market, it means you're way too expensive because everything sells in today's markets. So, yeah, it should be a good indication that something's wrong. I got a buddy at 20. All right, Brandon, maybe she'll listen to you. Tell her.

I will tell her. Josh's mom. Is that a good accent? Yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah, that's good if she lived in Boston. I don't know. What's the difference between the Boston and New York accent? New York.

Hey, hey, how you doing? Versus like, eh. Don't fat in a pack hand. They haven't yet. Okay, good to know. I've been trained on New England accents. Good. Well, so let's go.

I'm not going to even try. All right. Well, you don't have to mimic her. Mom, Josh's mom, listen to your son. He's a smart guy, despite what everyone says. This is the only way I can get to you, mom. All right. Let's get out of here.

because, you know, we got another actually show today. Actually, we're going to record right after this. Right on. Right on. Good show. All right, guys. Thanks for listening. Show 230 of the Bigger Pockets podcast.

You can check out the show notes at biggerpockets.com slash show 230. With that, I'm Josh Dorkin. Signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com.

Your home for real estate investing online. It's time for it. It's time. The Random Five. Welcome to today's Random Five. These are five random questions that we ask every guest. They're different questions every week and we throw them here at the end of the show. It's kind of an, I don't know, Easter Egg, is that we want to call it?

We'll call it Easter Egg. Hidden track. All right. Yeah, I like that. So these five random questions that we're going to throw at you right now, Seth. Number one, as a child, what did you want to be when you grew up? I wanted to be an Ohio State football player. Really? Nice. Even though that's like college, so I don't even know if you can technically be that when you grow up. I wanted to just, I wanted to just do that as my career, be a college football player. Nice. Just keep flukting out your career.

Exactly. Very cool. All right. All right. Next question. whose mind would you most like to read? I don't know. Is it cliche to say Elon Musk? No, that's a good answer. I thought you were going to say your wife. That would be dangerous.

Maybe. I don't think I would want to read that. Like you want, there's a healthy amount of filter that happens in a marriage. Yes. That is so true. Yeah. So true. All right.

Next one. any magic tricks. I know none, but one of our staff members is a magician in the Brotherhood of magicians. So if he was, I wish he was here because he could do some amazing card tricks. So I know. Who is that? Do I know him?

His name's Asa. You might have met him at the group, but. I might have. He's, we call him Asa Spades. Oh, nice. Nice. Nice. He hangs around. Sweet. Next question. Let's go with

What TV show are you currently watching? Man, we don't own a TV. We got rid of our TV like three years ago, so we're a little Amish like that. Wow. Are you a Netflix guy? You watch it on the computer? Not even that.

The only thing we have that we've watched over and over again is because I have a two and a half-year-old daughter, and it's the movie Trolls. Oh, great movie. So we've watched it about 47 times to date. So that's the last. Oh, I take it back. We have been watching it on a computer.

This is us. That's a good troll. also. It's like my weekly emotional beatdown basically. It's hard. We like, we will go and we'll wait a week and a half between shows because it's like, oh, no, this is too much. I can't.

It's crazy. Just cry fest every week. Pretty much. Pretty much. I'm like seven episodes in, I think. So working out. Yeah. Cool.

It's good. All right. Last question. What is your favorite board game? Oh, man. I do love board games. Right now, I think it's this one called Ticket to Ride. Have you played that one?

I'm not. My brother is like a, my brother and those are like a board game enthusiast. And so he goes to all these conventions and stuff. But this was like one of the top ones, I guess, from the last few years. So ticket to ride. Check it out. Yeah. All right, Seth.

Thanks so much. Thank you all for listening to the. the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. On the host, an executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer, the show is produced by E.N.K., copywriting is by Calicoke content, and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.w.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions

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