BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 233: 15 Deals in the First 18 Months with Arianne Lemire

Episode Date: June 29, 2017

Some investors get started slowly—a deal here, a deal there. But for Arianne Lemire, going slow was not an option. Arianne began investing just a year and a half ago but has already done 15 deals, with more coming in every month! How did she do it? As she explains, a powerful “why.” You’ll learn how Arianne turned her drive for financial independence into a real estate career that includes rentals, flips, and wholesaling. Arianne’s story is powerful and will inspire you to blast off like a rocket to reach your destination! In This Episode We Cover: How Arianne got started through the BiggerPockets webinar! Her very first deal What “delayed financing exemption” means How she used BiggerPockets to figure out her strategy and to find a lender A discussion on whether you should get your real estate license Where Arianne invests How she shifted her strategy due to her “why” How to handle being a female real estate investor Tips for landing lots of deals in just two years Where she is now in her business What marketing strategy she uses A general contractor horror story The importance of surrounding yourself with the right people What’s next for her And SO much more! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Bookstore BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Webinar BiggerPockets Podcast 163: Making Your Real Estate Business Soar While Working a Full-Time Job with Bill Allen BRRRR Strategy Auction.com Williams and Williams XOme Books Mentioned in this Show Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert T. Kiyosaki The Book on Rental Properties by Brandon Turner Set for Life by Scott Trench The Book on Flipping Houses by J. Scott The Book on Rental Property Management by Brandon and Heather Turner The Book on Tax Strategies for the Savvy Real Estate Investor by Amanda Han and Matthew MacFarland Procrastinate on Purpose by Rory Vaden Tweetable Topics: “It’s just a number’s game, so just submit as many offers as you can.” (Tweet This!) “Instead of being a piece in the chessboard, you’re now looking over the chessboard.” (Tweet This!) “Use your strengths to your advantage.” (Tweet This!) Connect with Arianne Arianne’s BiggerPockets Profile Arianne’s Company Facebook Page Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 233. So people ask, you know, what should I do? And I always ask, well, what do you want? And sometimes they'll respond with something that's not really what they want. You know what I mean? They might say, I want passive income. I want financial freedom. But really, at the root of that, what is it that you actually want?

You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on, everybody? This is Josh Dorkin host to the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, Mr. Brandon Turner. What's up, man? Hey, not a whole lot.

What's up with you? Dude, I'm really happy to see you back in your lumberjack wear, man. You got the red Paul Bunyan thing happening. The Paul Bunyan thing. I got my babe, the blue ox here. Yeah, man. It's good. Looking sharp.

Yeah. Well, thank you. Is that like I don't normally look sharp? Is that what you're saying? I know what you're saying. I make no comment on such things. My mom thinks I look handsome. My wife likes me.

So that's all I need in life. That is all that you need. I'm meaningless in the whole scheme of things. That's pretty true. What about you? What have you been up to? Wow. Wow.

I'm doing it right, man. We actually did a really fun thing. thing last night brought the entire bigger pockets team, their family, families, kids, and some friends out to the ball game. We went to watch the Colorado Rapids play the LA Galaxy and the Rapids unfortunately got schooled. But it was fun. It wasn't. I had a lot of fun. Oh, wait, that's right. That's right. I didn't get invited. I didn't get that memo. Yeah. You know, here's what happens. So when you invite people once, twice, thrice, four times.

And each time, eh, I'm not coming. I'm not coming. 2,000 miles for a ball game is a little far away. Is it baseball? Soccer. Oh, okay. At some point, football, some call it.

At some point, we stop inviting those people to join us. And so, you know, there you go. When I'm in Denver next, I will come hang out at a soccer football game with you. We'll have fun. That would be amazing. All right. Speaking of amazing. Today's show is amazing.

We got a good show. We definitely got a good show today for sure. This show is, you know, we've got somebody else who dove into the business. Bigger pockets played an integral role. And in 18 months, in her first 18 months, she knocked out 15 deals, which is crazy. It's crazy. Really, really motivating for those of you looking for some motivation. And the part about the show I like the best was the discussion about having a

strong why. You know, we really dove in on why should I do this? What am I trying to accomplish? What am I looking to do? And, you know, helping you figure out what your own why is too. Because a lot of people will get into real estate or anything else and they'll just start doing without thinking, right? And they forget like, what am I actually in this for? Because, you know, we do that in our jobs. We do that in all sorts of parts of our life. And I think it's really important for everybody to stop and and really think about that because it does drive decisions that we all make. Anyway, great show, great show. Before we dive in, this is show 233, the Bigger Pockets podcast.

You can check out the show notes of biggerpockets.com slash show 233. And before moving on, why don't we get to today's quick tip? We have redesigned the Bigger Pockets bookstore. Yeah, we've got a bookstore on Bigger Pockets. We sell lots of titles like The Book on Rental Property Investing. Best book ever written. Wow. Well then. Set for Life by Scott Trench. Second best book ever written.

The book on flipping houses from Jay Scott. We've got all these great, great titles. Amanda Hahn's book on taxes, lots and lots of really, really good books. Let's not forget Heather Turner, the most beautiful woman in the world. Her book. Yeah, you're making this a really long quick tip because of your lovely wife. But that's fine. Yeah.

Anyway, we've redesigned the bookstore. If you're looking to get your hands on some awesome, awesome real estate and personal finance-related books, check out biggerpockets.com slash store. That's biggerpockets.com slash store. And yeah, make it happen. All right. I will make it happen. Managing properties can feel like a full-on circus. You're juggling vendors, tracking payments, chasing approvals across multiple properties, and maybe a few HOAs, all while trying to keep tenants happy and owners confident. One delay can throw everything off. And suddenly your day is all clean up, no progress. That's why hundreds of property managers rely on bill to streamline

their finances. Bill for property management lets you add all your properties, assign permissions, pay bills, and receive payments quickly and efficiently, without the usual bottlenecks. It syncs with platforms like QuickBooks, Zero, NetSuite, and Sage intact, so your accounting stays aligned. You can automate bulk payments across properties and HOAs. Choose flexible payment methods like same-day A-ACH, international wires, card, or check, and set custom roles in approval policies. There's even a dedicated bill inbox for each property to keep everything organized. Ready to simplify your workflow, book your free demo at bill.com slash bigger pockets, and get a $100 Amazon gift card. That's bill.com slash bigger pockets.

Here's the thing about traveling. If you buy food at the airport, a burrito, salad, bag of peanuts, you start wondering if you should have opened a savings account for snacks. So wouldn't it be great if you could actually earn money while you're traveling? Well, you can. Airbnb has something called the co-host network. While you're away, you can hire a vetted local co-host with hosting experience to help take care of things. Communicating with guests, preparing your space, managing reservations, everything runs smoothly while you're off making memories. Your home might be worth more than you think.

Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle, active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress. Here's a better question. What if you could buy brand new construction homes, 10% below market value in the best markets across the country, without making real estate your second job? That's exactly what rent-to-retirement does. They're a full-service, turn-key investment company handling everything for you.

In some cases, investors get 50 to 75% of our down payment back at closing, plus interest rates as low as 3.75%. They've partnered with bigger pockets for over a decade, helping thousands invest smarter. If you want to do the same, visit biggerpockets.com slash retirement to learn more. Let's get to the show. As usual, we would invite you guys.

If you've not yet left a rating a review in iTunes, please do so that helps us out more than you know. And Josh will personally drive to your house and give you a hug if you do that. So, you know. Brandon, that's false advertising. I don't like people. That's true.

That's true. You don't hug. Yeah, you do like the hug and then the reach around, a little squeeze, you know, That's a little weird. Reach around is a whole other conversation, man. It's kind of inappropriate for a family show. But keep it up PG.

Yes. Yes. You know it was cool last night at the game. So we had a sign in our... I want to know how that transitions to this at the game. I'm really good at this. We had a picnic area. So we had this whole area.

And it had our name, bigger pockets on it reserved. And, you know, we're all hanging out and some guy walks up. And he's like, hey, hey. And I'm like, what? He's like, you're, you're, you're, no, you're Josh. You're Josh. Yes. Oh, man.

That's funny. This is amazing. Yeah, he was a big fan of the Bigger Pockets podcast. You know, we brought him into our picnic area. Introduced him to Scott, introduced him to Mindy. He was chatting it up with everybody. But yeah, a huge fan getting into real estate. And I don't know.

It's so fun. It's always cool to be like out in the world and having listeners kind of stop by, say hello, and tell us their story. So, yeah, if you are. a listener and you run across a Brandon Turner. Out in the woods. Do me a favor. Take a can of shaving cream.

Sprayed in his face. Don't do that. That's assault. That is a salt. You can't assault. You can't assault people. It's just not right. Yeah, please don't do that.

Anyway, all right, we got a good show. Let's get this thing going. Today's guest is Ariane Le Meyer. I'm going to butcher her name. I know she's going to correct me later. But Ariane, as I talked about, 15 deals, 18 months. great guest. Let's bring her in. All right, Ariane, welcome to the show. It's good to have you here. Yeah, thanks for having me, guys. Yeah, this should be a lot of fun today. So you saw, we posted in the

Bigger Pockets forums that we were looking for some BP success stories to bring on in the podcast and tell their story and you responded to that. So apparently you are, you've done some cool stuff in the last few years. So that's what we're going to dig it on today. Why don't we start before that success? I mean, what is your background? What did you, like, how did you get, walk us through the first years of your life before real estate and then how'd you get into real estate? Okay, so I was actually born in the Philippines. I lived in New Zealand for about six years. And then I moved here about three years ago. So I really didn't know I would be here in doing this way back when. So when I moved here, I just graduated from grad school. I started my first job.

And I really was kind of trapped after like in that first year. I didn't really think I could do that for the rest of my life. And I just started looking for ways to get out, really. Yeah. Got it. What were you doing, by the way, job-wise, just out of curiosity? I was a speech and language pathologist. Okay.

Oh, wow. And so how did that turn into real estate? So pretty much after the first few months, I didn't really want to do that. And my husband and I just started looking for ways to retire early, essentially. So our first plan was to just save up our way to. retirement and that was going to take us like a couple decades. So that was a no-go. And then somehow, I think I just started Googling and somehow found the bigger pockets

website. And you guys were talking about how you can make all these cool returns in real estate and things like that. And then I watch one of your webinars, Brandon. I think I watched a few. And really, that's where it all started. I just realized we can make so much more return-wise versus the stock market and CD. and things like that.

And so that's where it all began. That's awesome. By the way, that's, I did not know you were a webinar attendee. That's pretty awesome. It makes me feel pretty darn good. Of course,

people can sign up for webinars. Don't push his ego any more than it needs to be. I'm using this to boost bigger pockets a little bit. Come to a webinar, people. listen to how awesome it is. BiggerPockets.com slash webinar. We do numerous webinars a week now,

which is kind of fun. So anyway, all right. So walk us through your very first deal. I mean, getting into that first deal, tell us how did that happen? What was it?

So our very first deal was a foreclosure auction, not on the county steps, but I think it was one of the websites. I think it was home search.com. Now they're called XOME. So we've been on a priority. Before this, I actually had gotten my real estate license. We tried a few agents in the beginning and it just didn't work out. So I got my license and started looking for things on the AmLS and then we came across that auction. So we went inside, we bid on it.

I think we won it for 50,000. And the very next like week we had it appraised, it was worth like 85. So we were able to, we used that. We actually bought it with cash and used the delayed financing exemption to pull all our cash out. So that's how we were able to. Can I guess start so quickly? Can you explain that as a delayed? Yeah, I don't know what the delayed financing exemption is.

I've never heard that. Oh. So basically there's a Fannie Mae exemption where if you buy a property for cash, you can finance right away as long as it meets certain criteria. So I think it's like 70 or 75 percent of the loan to value. So like for that, the first property we bought, for example, it raised for 85. So whatever 70 or 75 percent of that, we could pull it right out. So I think that happened in the first four weeks. Really?

And I actually learned about that from Bigger Pockets. I was reading, I think, one of the success stories posted by Bill Allen, who was one of my mentors and was a guest in your show, I think, a year ago. But he posted that, and I didn't know it existed until that post. And the lender who I used was actually from Bigger Pockets, too. So there we go. I will tell you, I've been around Bigger Pockets for a couple of years now. Never heard of such a thing. I had no idea this existed.

Yeah, that's fantastic. Delayed financing exemption. It's a fan name A exemption. Obviously, there's some conversations on bigger pockets about it. So if you guys want to learn more, jump on the site. Ask questions. I'm sure folks like Ariane can jump in and answer how the process went and things like that. And let me explain real quick why this is awesome and I did not know about it.

Why is it so cool? It was amazing. This is really cool. Because normally when you buy a property, you have to wait usually at least six months to a year in order to refinances. So let's say I go, this is especially important for Burr investing where you buy rehab rent refinance repeat is I go and buy a property. Like in fact, I actually, an hour ago I was signing for a property. I cannot refinance this property for six months.

And sometimes banks make me wait a whole year before being able to refinance. But apparently there's an exemption that I didn't even know of. So I need to definitely look into this. Yeah, for this, you can actually do it in four to six weeks. I think our lender actually pulled it off in four. So we bought it December 2015 and we were able to pull all our cash out within four weeks. That's awesome. The exemption solely based on paying cash.

for the property? Yes. And I've seen other people who had private loans do it too. And you can do it with a heel off too. So it's fascinating.

This is, to buy properties fast. Yeah, this needs to be a chat. Someday when I write the book on Burr investing, which who knows what I'll be. But when that comes out,

that's got to be a chapter in there. That's very cool. All right. So very, very cool kind of strategy. And again, if people are into

Burr investing, you can learn more about it by going to biggerpockets. It's 4R's B RRRR. It's my favorite strategy. But besides that, so you got this, first deal at an auction. Now, not like, you'll use that, not courthouse steps, but just normal

auction. So I'm wondering, like, what was that like that experience? Do you recommend that for other people? Should they be looking at online auction sites as well as an first-time investor? Or do you get, did you just get lucky? Yeah, I really like online auction sites. And I think since then, I've bought me before from that particular auction site. But it's great because you can actually go into the properties, assuming you're vacant. It's like a normal deal, except you just pretty much bid. So there's not multiple offers and you know if you win because you're going to be the highest bidder. Yeah. And I'm presumably like at a traditional auction, you have to pay cash or? No, you can actually finance it. I think when we won, we actually said we were going to finance it

and then changed it and we just paid cash because we found out about that delayed financing option thing. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. And, um, I don't know me. Super helpful. Maybe I'll do this today or when this episode comes out. Over on the forums, why don't we start a like a forum thread and have people just share like what auction sites they know of? That would be kind of a cool forum thread is where we can all do like the one you just named and I know there's like auction dot com and, you know, William and Mitchell, I think it's called. Anyway. Or yeah, yeah. Like there's all these like a different auction sites. It would be cool to kind of list them in a big thread. So we'll do that. Make sure you guys check out the show notes. And either I or Mindy or Josh or one of us will

start a thread talking, you know, asking for people's input. So anyway, check that out because I'd love to get a master list of all these sites. So very cool. Awesome. Awesome. So you had talked about getting your license. Why did you decide to go ahead and get your license before? And you said this was before actually getting started as an investor. So why did you make that decision? And was it the right decision? What did it help with you? Help you with? What, you know, what downsides were there? Yeah, it was for me. I guess the downside is instead of having another member of your team, it's you. So it was my time invested in finding the properties and looking at properties and things like that. But when I started, I also had a full-time job. And I found that

with the agents I was working with, it was hard to coordinate showings when I could go and my husband could go and they could go. That's right. They'll, they try to work during normal business hours and I can only go during non-normal business hours. So it helped a lot for me. It also helped me learn valuations a lot quicker. So having access to the MLS. I know on Zillow and Redfin, you can see what it's sold for. And sometimes you can see pictures, but it helped me a lot to be able to see all of the comps and all of the pictures. So I know that, okay, this house sold for $100,000, but what did it look like?

And if I see that it's not renovated, then it helped me realize that, well, if it was renovated, it's probably going to sell for this. And then I see this renovated comp, and it's sold for $150. And I realize, okay, A-RV's actually higher. Now, do you then recommend new investors

get their license? Do you think that's valuable for them to do? Or is it kind of on a case-by-case? I think it depends, and I know that's a question, an answer nobody likes to hear, but it depends on what you actually want to do. So for me, I realize that we were definitely going to buy a lot of properties or sell a lot of properties, and it just made sense at that time. But if you're more wanting to be like a passive investor and you maybe want to buy one property a year, I suggest not. Is it probably going to be a wash at that point? but if you're at least going to buy two or if you're thinking of flipping, then definitely get your license.

Very cool. That's great. So what happened with that house? I mean, did you end up keeping it as a rental or did you flip it or what? Yeah. So, well, I call it a rental, but we're actually living in that house. So the house you see right now. Okay.

So we use the late financing exemption, but it's actually our apartment residence. Okay. So we could have just used a 3% down loan as well. Okay. Cool. So you live in the property now. So then what came after that? You've got your primary house.

You got a really good deal on. You now have equity in it. And you're ready to start investing in something else. Tell us about that. Yes. So within the next few weeks, we actually got a short sale under contract. And as you know, short sales aren't usually short, but this one actually was. So we got it under contract December of 2050 and actually closed on it.

I think the beginning of February of the next year, 2016. That is pretty fast. Yeah. Yeah, and we used the same cash that we pulled out of the first property to buy that for cash and then used it late financing again. So I think we bought that for 72 and it appraised for 133 in the next week. So we pulled out all of the 72 out. It came with a tenant. So it was cash flowing.

It was great. And then we still had the cash. And what market are you in? I don't think we asked that. Where do you live? I'm actually in Fort Walton Beach, Florida. People will know Destin, Florida, which is just 15 minutes away from us. Got it.

And are you investing in that market? Yes. Okay. So I invest from Navar to Destin. And that's, is that northern California? Or is that that a panhandle? Northwest Florida. Did I say California?

Yeah. When you're old, things happen, things come out. Yeah. So we are in northwest. North West Florida. You can't handle. Okay. So many jokes I want to make there, but we're going to move on.

So this is a family show. Family show. So enough about Josh getting old and things coming out. So you, I guess you prays for 133 right afterwards and you pay 72. How did you find that deal? Did you say that? It was a short sale, but how did you find it? Just MLS?

Just the MLS. I think it was listed for 100. They actually put in an offer for 60 that they accepted. But the bank wouldn't take it until we ended up at. 72. Wow. And that, I mean, still, 100 down to 72 is still pretty amazing. Like, I don't know. So many people are afraid of making offers. But like, I don't know, you don't, you're not going to get a yes if you don't make some offers. Yeah. It's just a numbers game. Yep. You know, submit as many offers as you can. And you'll get some of them accepted. There you go. I say that all the time. Like, it's a gigantic

funnel. It just makes some offers. And that. Try until you succeed. You don't want to pay more than you think it's worth. I mean, paying 100 was paying more than you thought it was worth. then don't offer 100, you know? And if the price climbs up through 100 and you still don't think it's worth 100, walk, don't chase things, right? I mean, it's pretty simple. Yeah. And, you know, it's one thing I love about real estate is that like real estate is not a yes

or no game. It's not like, will you buy that house yes or no? It's more of like, what's that house worth? I mean, every single property in the world has a number that makes it worthwhile. Now, that number might be negative. I'm sure you guys have seen properties that like you wouldn't, somebody couldn't pay you to buy that house. But they still have a number, right?

Like every house has a number. So your job as an investor is just to go find that number, figure out what makes sense to you and make them an offer. And if they take it, great. If not, move on to the next one. Keeps all the emotion kind of at bay, at least for the most part. So cool. All right. Yes.

Yes. All right. So you're buying in the Florida panhandle. You bought that property. What did you end up doing with that short sale? Yeah. So that was actually, that was a rental. We actually sold it this year.

Okay. But it was renting. It had a tenant. that came with it, who was paying $9.75. So we kept them and they were happy with the place. So the cash flowed great because we pulled all of our money out. I think I posted on bigger pockets when that happened. And it was like an outrageous cash and cash return because we didn't have any pay in it.

Yeah. That's amazing. Why did you end up selling that? Because you only bought it last year. So why I sell it? Yeah. Well, so after those two first rental properties, our shift kind of changed. to flipping and wholesaling.

So the third property, which we bought just, I think, a month after those two, was a rental that needed more work than the first two. So the first two were pretty much rent-ready. One was moving ready, and then the second one came with a tenant and was happy with how it was. And the third property needed about $20,000 worth of work. It needed some new siding, flooring, and paint. So we only had that amount of cash, whatever we pulled out. And we realized, so if we buy this with cash and then put some more money in, like we'll be tied, we'll tie up more than we want to into property because we can't pull out more than what we pay for it.

So we ended up flipping that and we made, I think, $40,000 on that first flip. Wow. And since then, we've mainly been flipping properties. So why the shift? Why the shift from you started with rentals, it shifted over there. Is it just because of the, you know, you could make more income? It was mainly because of, I guess, my why. So I mentioned earlier that when we started, I felt trapped.

And it really was that. So my family live overseas. So they live in New Zealand. And with my job, I couldn't really get time off. I mean, we have a PTO and things like that. But I couldn't have anybody covered me. So I couldn't actually take it. So I just couldn't really.

really do that anymore. So I was more focused on developing some active income, which was flipping as opposed to buying however many rentals I needed to actually quit my job in the first place. So I think it just boiled down to my why and, you know, why wait until I have enough rentals if I can do it? So for you, this was a velocity thing. You wanted to, had you continued to buy rental property, at some point, call it a year or two. years, four years, whatever it is, you would have gotten to the point where you had the income coming in from those properties to start doing the things that you wanted to do like travel to see your family. But because you decided that you wanted to do that today and you did not

want to delay that gratification, you changed your strategy so that with a flip you can get, you know, more of a return more quickly, theoretically, instead of waiting for that to come. in on smaller chunks month by month so you can go and do your thing. Is that kind of a fair rehash? Yeah, pretty much. And I've always been big on delayed gratification. I think that's, I've always had that in me. And I just realized that, you know, I'm not going to do it for this particular season in

my life for that particular purpose. I want to see my family like soon. Yeah. So, so go ahead, Brandon. Yeah. Oh, thank you. I was going to say the one thing that's cool about real estate then, obviously is that like you can choose the different path to get closer to why.

You know, the fact that you had a goal, a thing you wanted to do was get out of your job soon. I mean, some people don't want to leave their job for 20 years. Well, great, there's a great real estate strategy for you. And then some people want to quit their job yesterday. There's a great real estate strategy for you. And some 10 years from now, five years now, like, I don't know, that there's a lot of things that fire me up about real estate. But that's one of my favorite things is that you can define, like, you can build your path based on where you're headed. But so many people don't know where they're headed, right?

Like, you knew where you wanted to be. but if you ask most people in the world, like, where are you headed? I don't know. I think Dancing with the Stars is on tonight, right? Like, that's how about as far as most people plan. Wow, you just lost like 98% of our audience. Sorry, the Bachelor is on tonight, you know? And that's as far as I'm planning.

And you just lost my mom. But I do agree. And I think that's a lot of people ask me for advice. We actually host like a meetup group locally and things like that. Nice. That we advertise on bigger pockets. But anyway, so people ask, you know, what should I do? And I always ask, well, what do you want?

And sometimes they'll respond with something that's not really what they want. You know what I mean? They might say, I want passive income. I want financial freedom. But really, at the root of that, what is it that you actually want? You know, like for me, it was I want to see my family at least once a year. Yeah. And this got me there.

So what is it that you want? So how do we help people get there, right? I mean, a lot of people are searching for money, right? That's, oh, I'm getting into real estate because I want to make money. A lot of people work a job because I need money to survive. What you're suggesting, and by the way, I agree, is people should have a cause above and beyond just money, right? Money is not an end. Money is a means to an end.

At least I believe that. I think a lot of people would concur and pretty much all my former friends back in New York would disagree. you know, money back, back east, money's the end, right? Oh, I want to be rich, cool. But you work, you know, 18 hour days and have no life. You're suggesting the why is the end goal. Happiness. Hey, I want to travel, you know, twice a year to see family,

or I want to, you know, start living my bucket list today or something to that, right? Yes, definitely. I think a lot of people get stuck and I think I did it in the beginning too. kind of get stuck on like a number, maybe it's like a retirement number or a net worth number. And that's good. You want to plan. You want to know that you can pay for bills and be able to live your life. But also, I think people need to spend some time to think about what is underlying that. You know, what is behind that number? Like, what do you want to achieve when you get that? And I think sometimes people forget that because it takes that long to get to that number.

For sure, for sure. So I want to just jump to something very obvious. You are a female. Wow, good job, Josh. He's pretty perceptive. He's a smart guy. I am smart. You know, we try very hard to get as many female investors on the show as possible

because I think it's definitely an under, quote, call it underserved demographic. I mean, our data on bigger pockets shows that probably less than 30% of investors are are women, potentially a lot less than that. And I think that's ridiculous. So, you know, do you see any challenges? Have you had any challenges as a female investor? And if so, what have you done to overcome them? Yes.

And I just tried to use it to my advantage, I guess. So in the early phases, you know, I would meet with contractors and things like that. And they would say something like, hey, do you ask your husband or, you know, do you to talk to your husband about this. Now I just say, yeah, actually, you know what? Yeah, give me your bid and I'll just talk to my husband. And really, in negotiation, like, you get the overhead if you can come back later. Yeah.

So I just try to use it to my advantage instead of be annoyed. Yeah. It seems like that, you know, every time we ask that question, Brandon, and tell me if I'm wrong. But like, it seems like that's always the common theme is it's usually an issue with contractors and nothing else. It's, you know, just the chauvinistic industry, right? Yeah, and I think, I mean, when you do go to like Rias or events, it is mostly men there. So you do feel kind of left out, I guess, if there's not any other females.

But I think you just get used to it. And actually in our meetups right now, there's quite a few female investors. So I'm happy about that. What would you say to all the females that are listening to the show right now on, who are thinking about getting started but are intimidated like oh you know I don't want to deal with these chauvinistic jerks and I don't want to deal with any of the drama

that may come because I'm a female how would you tell them to kind of get through that nonsense well how strong is your why right why are you doing this and there's going to be people who don't like you because you're female or because you're short or because you're

from another country or whatever right but you kind of just have to do it for your reasons and eventually they'll come to respect you and realize that, you know, you're just, you're a person who's successful. There you go. There you go. Yeah.

Don't ever let anyone get in your way. Just do what you do what you need to do to, to, you know, build for your family. And if there's people who get in the way, you know, move on to the next, the next folks. I mean, you don't need to work with people who are going to behave that way. You don't need to deal with it. So, awesome, awesome. All right. kind of start to move towards the next section of the show.

How many deals have you done so far? Actually, wrote it down. I think we've done 10 flips, 11 wholesales in those two rentals. And we have five active flips right now and six more in the pipeline that we're not sure if we're going to wholesale or flip. Wow. That's a lot of deals. That is a lot of deals. Especially at one time.

Like right now, you're like, it seems like you've taken it up a notch this year. Does that be a. And we're not like five years in either. This is year two, correct? Yes, we started in December of 2015, so we're about a year and a half in. Wow. So how did you pick up your, how did you pick up the pace this year? Like, how are you doing so many right now?

So this year, the focus has been on building a team. Right now, in the beginning, it was just me and my husband, right? And then now we have about three people, three team members who work with us. So the only reason I can sit here and talk to you guys and have five flips going is because I have a project manager who just the projects. Nice. And I have, we have marketing campaign. So I have somebody who's answering their phones right now and I have somebody, you know,

meeting sellers. So that's been the focus. And it word that the, the machine isn't, you know, up and running and perfect yet. Sure. But we're working on it. So you mentioned marketing. So you must be doing some kind of lead generation. What's that look like for your business?

Yeah. So the end of last year, we actually started some direct mail campaign. Okay. Okay. What are you doing letters, postcards? Postcards. Postcards. Postcards, okay. And you're getting good response. They are cheaper, yes. Like, I debated between the two. I have not done postcards. I've only done letters, but because I figure I get a better response rate with the letters, but it's way cheaper for the postcards. Have you tried both? Or have you just gone the one? I think in the beginning, we tried letters when we were still printing it out and sending it out ourselves. But postcards were just like half the price. And really, there is. response rates were about the same, maybe just slightly less. And we found that the leads were about the same. Like, we'll get the same amount of appointments, let's say, compared to more calls and the same amount of appointments. I see. Okay. So maybe less tire kickers, but the same number of people that are motivated are calling you. That's interesting. Yeah, I think so. Very cool. All right. So

you're doing direct mail marketing. You now have somebody answering the phone calls, which I think is awesome. You know, like, we talk about this a lot here on the show, but there's so many things that investors should do that most of the time we don't. Like, I know that I should send out a certain number of letters every month. I know I should answer all those phone calls. I should do a certain number of appointments, make a certain number of offers. But at the end of the day, I mean, the bachelor's on TV tonight, right? So, you know, I go and watch that, right?

So what I'm getting at is when you have other people do those things for you, like you hire those people, it doesn't have to be a full-time job. When you hire other people to do that, those things start getting done because now it's not your responsibility. it's a worker's responsibility to get it done. And I think that's when your business really begins to scale, as you're seeing in your business right now. Yes.

And then you, now you're managing people instead of you doing it. So you can actually see it, you know, instead of being a piece on the chessboard, you can see the chest board and see where, you know, things need to happen, what you need to pull back or what you need to put in to make everything work better. I like that instead of being a, yeah, that's awesome.

That have been a piece on the chess board. You're now looking at the chess board. is that you said. I like that. Well, now you're the, now you're the human who's moving the pieces versus being a piece that's kind of moving. I love that. Yeah. I think that's akin to working on your business instead of working in your business, right? And we've talked about that a lot.

But I think that's a great analogy. Cool. All right. So before we move on here, tell us, let's say, you know, one of your best deals and one of your worst. Let's start with the worst. I think that was my second deal where so oh okay no that was our fourth deal actually our second flip so our first flip was pretty much cosmetic so it was really easy our second flip and we decided to take down some walls and some load bar load bearing walls and it was like a huge rehab like me have a $50,000 rehab and we hired a general contractor which was our first time hiring a general contractor which came from a recommendation from a friend and it really did not work out. The general contractor ended up, I think he took 50% up front.

And it was really hard to get most of the debt back. He pretty much messed up like in the beginning. He hung cabinets with two by fours. Like he put two by fours and drilled the cabinets on like on two on two. That's weird. That's weird. Yes. Yes.

And his answer was when I asked him about that, he said, oh, that's how we've always said it in the past one years. So yeah. So anyway, we fired him. So I've always been a jackass. Great. So we fired him, but we were $20,000 in. And there we are. So we pretty much had to redo a lot of the work he did. So we were, I know, $10,000 over budget and two months behind schedule. So I think we ended up breaking even on that one.

But I think so far in my real estate journey, that's been. my tuition. Yeah. On that, on that breaking even, I mean, you, let's, I'm not going to say you screwed up, but, you know, you had all this, this, these problems. You had time delays. You had, you know, manpower delays. And you still ended up breaking even, which, you know, for a lot of newbies,

they would have been in a lot of trouble. They would have been upside down likely if they didn't know how to evaluate the property, how to buy at a reasonable enough price. And so kudos to you for that, right? I mean, that's, that's a good deal. You walk away, your hands are clean, right? Right, yes. And yet, if your first deal as a flip, I suggest this is for newbies, right?

Starting with a, start with a cosmetic clip, maybe cosmetic plus a roof or cosmetic plus an HVAC, but don't try to remove walls and all that kind of crazy stuff on your first one because so many things can go wrong. And this was just one example of something that did, but I also have other stories that I could share on another date. But try to start with something that's more manageable, that there won't be that many surprises. Because like Josh said, yes, we broke even, but you could be like, you could lose like $10,000, $20,000. I've been there. Great advice. Great advice.

Yeah. All right. Well, a couple more questions for you before we move on to the fire round. First one, I like this question. I want to ask this more often. I just always forget. And I won't even define what exactly I mean by this, but I just want to know what you think I mean.

What's working really well for you right now? In terms of like... However you want to answer that question, what's working really well for you right now? You decide the direction because you can take any approach. Yeah, what's working great? Well, this year I've decided to surround myself with people who are either at where I want to be in the near future.

or are on their way to get there. And that's been great. Like in this business, I feel like it's a roller coaster. And you get punched in the face so many times and you just kind of have to get up. And it helps when you have people who are in that phase in their business too or have just been there to kind of talk to and say, hey, this happened. Hey, this contractor just stuck or hey, I just lost $10,000 something. Right. And they can say that happens.

You know, you learn from it. Just this is what you can do. They can give you advice. but really just having somebody there who can give you some advice or even just listen to you. Like, it's amazing. I love it. That's great. Isn't that a cool question, though?

Just let people leave it open and it. It would have been cooler if somebody else asked it, but you know, whatever. All right, why don't you ask the next question, Josh, and then we'll see how you do. Wow. I'm judging you here. Look at my judgey eyes right here. All right, here we go. Ready?

Hold on a little stretch. I got this. Yeah, you got this. Let's see it. All right. Ariane, you ready? It's huge. Okay.

Where are you headed in the future? Where are you going? What's next? Because you are now obviously going and doing your thing. Your Y to visit your family, I'm assuming, is being met. So do you just kind of go status quo so you can do that and kind of live? Or how do you expand the business or just kind of keep it going? Yeah.

So what's next? It's really just finding the right people for the right places in my business. And just making sure we work together great. Right now we have some great people and I still need to train them a lot better. I guess the thing with having a business is you fire yourselves from certain positions and then now you're elevated to something else. And that just comes with so much more learning. Like I feel like in the last year and a half, I've learned so much more about really myself than I have about other people and how usually when something's go wrong, it's really me. And it's really something that I need to change about myself so that the business can grow.

So that's where I'm at right now. And right now I'm growing as a business owner and a manager. And where I see myself in the future, there's something I discussed with our team members and my husband recently. But we want to be at a place where the company can give a million dollars a year to various charities. So right now we're not there yet. But that's where we want to be. So that's the big goal. And like you said, Josh, like our needs are kind of met now, right?

like really in the beginning when we first heard about real estate all I wanted to do was be able to see my family without that needs met so now we're hoping to give back and really just like do something for other people because I mean they don't really want to be stagnant like if you if I'm just still it's like well it's kind of boring that's a pretty good why a million bucks a year to give to charity I love it yeah and I love how you're why I mean because why has changed right you're a initial why is going to be different than what your why is five years from now maybe, and that's okay. But when you continually develop that why and work on it, like you're never going to be

bored or you're never going to be, you know, burned out, I guess, because you've got something to fight for. I think that's cool. Yeah. And it's like, when I mentioned surrounding myself with other people. And I have people who are doing so much more than I am in terms of the business. And I see them still striving to get better. And it's just amazing to be with people like that.

and I want to be that too. So I always want to strive to be a better person, a better business owner and just continue going. I love it. I love it. Well, hey, let's shift gears now. I know we can talk forever on this stuff, but you've got, I know, a ton of experience to my advice just in the last couple of years.

I think it's awesome. It just goes to show like you don't have to be doing this business for 20 years before you can scale up to that point. Like you're doing this and crushing it and you've been doing this for a year and a half. So anybody listen to this show that's like, I want to get out of my job in the next few years, rewind this whole episode, listen to it again. But before you do that, let's get to the rest of these questions and head over to today's Fire Round. It's time for the Fire Round.

Wouldn't it be great if your houseplants paid rent while you were out of town? I mean, they've got the whole place to themselves, lots of sunlight, zero responsibilities. But no, they just sit there waiting for someone to spray them with some cool mist like a bunch of leafy loafers. But guess what? Your home actually could be earning you money while you're not there. Airbnb has a great feature called the co-host network, which makes hosting your home so easy. If you live far from your property or are away for extended periods, you can hire a local co-host to take care of the hosting for you. These co-hosts are vetted locals who already have experience hosting on Airbnb.

A co-host can handle all the details like messaging guests, creating your host space, and managing reservations. So everything runs smoothly. It's a practical way to earn a little extra money, maybe even some cash toward your next trip. Plus, you get to share your place with someone traveling to your area while you're off making memories somewhere else. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. People love to call real estate passive income, which is interesting because most of the investors I know are very busy.

Busy finding deals, busy managing teams, busy worrying they pick the wrong market. Rent to retirement flips that model. They help investors buy turnkey new construction homes, often 10% below market value in top rental markets across the country. Their local teams handle the build, the property management and the details so you don't have to. In some cases, investors even receive 50 to 75% of their down payment back at closing, and there are interest rates as low as 3.75%. They've been trusted partners with BiggerPockets for over a decade,

and if you want to learn more, visit BiggerPockets.com slash retirement. If you think property management is expensive, try mismanaging a vacancy or an eviction or a maintenance issue that turns into a five-figure problem because no one caught it early. That's expensive. A good property manager isn't overhead. Their protection against small mistakes turning into big losses. And that matters more than ever in this economy.

That's why I like Mind. Unlike other property managers, Mind manages your property like an investment. They obsessively measure the things that matter for your bottom line. Things like occupancy, delinquency, and net promoter score. And they have the results to prove it. Go to mine.co slash show me to see how mine performs and get your first month free, which is much cheaper than learning the hard way. All right, rental property investors,

listen up. Our friends at Dominion Financial already have some of the best DSCR rates in the industry. Now, they're the fastest too. They just launched 10-day DSCR closing. That's right, 10 days. And they're still the only lender

with the DSCR price beat guarantee. That means faster closing. The best terms. Zero guesswork. That's Dominion Financial. Check them out at biggerpockets.com slash Dominion. Again, that's biggerpockets.com slash dominion. Today's fire on.

These questions come direct out of the bigger pockets forums. They are quick questions, quick answers that we're going to fire at you. You ready? Yep. All right, number one, I'm halfway through my college degree, but I'm no longer excited about that career. I want to get into real estate instead. Should I finish college or drop out? I think I actually answered this question on the forums.

Oh, right. So what I said was, I think, so try it out first. It's the summer right now. And I think he mentioned that he wanted to try out being a real estate agent. So I suggest getting your license, it doesn't really take that long, and try it out either in the summer or while you're in college. Because you do have some spare time in college. So see if you actually like it and then drop out. Like when I started, I still had my full-time job for the whole year.

I really only stopped November of last year. So it was like a whole year of doing the real estate thing and my full-time job. And then I let the full-time job go. So try both and then do it. I love it. Good advice. Yeah, a lot of people are just like, oh, I'm going to quit because I'm going to be a huge real estate investor. And they discover that they suck at it and they hate it.

And it's like, oh, now what? Well, I had this job where I was supporting myself now. Now I'm in trouble. So all right, next question, similar. Well, not similar, but I'm 21 years old. Good job. You can drink, Josh. Good job.

Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. That was a half a lifetime ago. I'm 21 years old. having a really hard time saving money for my first deal. Living paycheck to paycheck. Any advice? I would read Scott Trencher's book. It's called Set for Life. Oh, yeah. He has a lot of pretty good ways to save and look at your budget and things like that. But I started just like you,

you know, I was a broke college student student student loan debt. So I suggest looking at what you're spending things on, get an extra, you know, part-time job and just start saving. Love it. Awesome. And you can go to setforlifebook.com. Really? Yeah. Fancy.

I didn't know we had that URL. Look at us. Look at Josh spending nine bucks a year on a domain. Wow. This is impressive. I can't believe they got you to do that. Wow. All right.

Moving on. Setforlifebook. com. Are you trolling me? No. No, I'm not trolling you. Why do I put up with you? I don't know.

Number three. I'm moving into a new primary residence. How do I decide whether to turn my house into a rental or sell it? Look at, I guess, the cash flow that you would generate and make sure you run the numbers as if you weren't, you're not the project manager and you're allotting for all the repairs and CAPEX and things like that and then see if you actually will cash flow. Okay. That's a first step. and then if you will, then consider, will it be better to sell it? If you're going to get some capital gains, you might just want to use the section

1201 exclusion. If not, then maybe keep it as a rental. Cool. And that's where if you live in a house for a couple of years, you potentially am not given CPA, I'm not giving tax advice, but you potentially do not have to pay taxes, capital gains on any profit you make up to, what, $250,000 or $500,000 if you lived in the property a couple years. Of course, talk to your CPA about that.

But that's what you're talking about, right? Yes. Good. Okay. Otherwise, that would have sounded really stupid if I'm not. All right. Number four. I mean, that's a given, but yeah, let's get a little to the next question here, which is,

I'm super introverted, clearly. Clearly. Can I still invest in real estate? Yes. I am actually super, super, super, super introverted. So that was the one great thing about bigger pockets, too. If it didn't exist, I'm not really sure if I would have learned as much as I did in the first few months. And like I said, the first lender I used was from Bigger Pockets.

Really, my first mentor was on Bigger Pockets. I learned about delayed financing on Bigger Pockets. Like, you can and Bigger Pockets gives you like a whole network there as an introvert. Like, I didn't really want to just show up at a party and talk to people. Yeah. But I could message people and like get to know them first before meeting them for coffee. So yes, you can. You will have to push yourself.

But you're going to get better at it. and just use your strengths to your advantage. I love that. Use your strengths to your advantage. I think that's huge. By the way, Josh, I got a new idea for a slogan. I was just going to ask, what do you do when you have no strengths like Brandon? You find them.

You find them, you know? All right. Bigger pockets, real estate investing for introverts right there. That is our new company slogan. All right. Yeah. That was the end of the fire round. Yeah, we are.

There's a lot of introverts out there. I'm actually super introverted. introverted as Josh knows, right? You put me in a group of people. To go to a party, you have like, you know, a hundred people in the room. Brandon is easily found hiding behind a tree or in the corner. That's hard. I stand.

Literally stands there. It doesn't hurt that he's nine feet tall. He literally stands there and waits for people to come to him. He will not go up and talk to random people. I don't do that. Okay, you can come up. We'll hide in the corner. We'll have really good conversation with like two or three people in the corner.

That's where you guys can find me. All right, let's move over to the last segment of the show, which we call our Famous Four. The Famous Four, these are the four questions we ask every guest every week. And let's see what you got to say. So, Arian, what is your favorite real estate related book? There's a couple. So Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and Set for Life.

So read those two. First time somebody's mentioned Set for Life as their favorite book, which is awesome. I'll have to let Trench now. Yes, it is. Awesome. Favorite business book, non-real estate. Procrastinate on purpose by Rory Baden. Never heard of it.

So it just helps you think about your time a little bit in a perspective. Cool. I love new recommendations. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Hobbies, what do you do for fun outside of real estate? And traveling to your family, by the way. Okay, so we love travel. And my husband and I are foodies too.

So whenever we travel, we plan our route around restaurants. that we like. We also like snowboarding. I'm not very good at it yet. We're learning. And we're gamers too. So of the online nerd variety. What's your favorite game?

Right now we're playing Overwatch. I've heard of it, not played it. It's a first person shooter. Nice. I'm still on first person like Golden Eye and 64. Yeah, that was the last shooter game I actually played. That was the best shooter game of all time. Oh, my God.

It's amazing. I'll have to look that up. Yeah, look that, oh, so good. You'll find it in the history books. Yeah. All right. Last question for me of the day and last question of the famous four. What do you believe sets apart successful investors from those who give up, fail, or never get started?

I think just having a strong why and always going back to it. So really persistence in a strong why. Because in this business, you get, like I said, punch in the face a lot. And you really need to stand up. So go back to your why and figure out why you're doing this and stand back up. Love it. Great. And that explains everything. I mean, Brandon, you look the way you look because you've been in this business.

They're so wrong. I've been punched in the face so many times that, you know, chicks, digs. All right. All right. Ariane. Where can people find out more about you? How can they sync up with you? I'm actually always on bigger pockets.

So go to my profile there. My company also has a Facebook page, Facebook.com slash jr. G-H houses. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you for putting all the time back and giving back to bigger pockets.

Congrats on all the success you've had so far. And we really appreciate having you on the show. Well, thank you very much for having me. And again, I probably wouldn't be here without bigger pockets. So, well, thank you. Thanks to you guys. All right. All right.

Take care. Take care. All right, guys. That was Arienne. Wow. Great show. And that's like, she just like dove in, right? and made things happen.

And so many newbies I feel like don't do that. They like put their little pinky toe in and then they're like their foot maybe and then like wait like five years and then maybe do a little more. She's like, no, I have a very strong reason. I want to get out of my job. I want to get that they done now. And she jumped in and just went, I mean, just deep into real estate. And I love that.

I love people to do that. So good job. Ariane. You're awesome. Yeah. Well. Oh, oh yeah. Anyway.

Want me to keep going? This messing with everybody. No, no, no, no. Anyway, great show. So, guys, again, if you didn't pay attention to that segment on finding your why and you don't know your why, I really, really encourage you to do that. Why, Josh? Why? Why are we here?

Because we're here. Roll the bones, Brandon. I don't know what that means. Yeah, that's a lyric from Rush. I don't know what that means. You don't know Rush. It's Rush. Oh, stop.

You seriously don't know. It's not like what you like rush week at like fraternities. Isn't that a thing? Like Godseller like Getty Lee with the super high page. Like a modern day warrior. No. No. Butchered it.

I just doomed one of the greatest songs ever. You do that quite often. Yeah, saying three words. I know who Rush is. I've never, I could not name a single song. Even though you just named one. I don't,

I couldn't name it again. Tom Sawyer. No. I know a book called Tom Sawyer or a character in a book. Yeah. Well, that was the book titled Huckleberry Finn. Wasn't there a couple ones? I'm guessing there's one called Tom Sawyer and another one called Huckleberry.

I'm like totally wrong here. Somebody's got to correct us. Go on, I don't know, Twitter and hit up Josh and me and let us know. At Brandon, MVP and at J.R. Dorkin. Let us know. Are there multiple Tom Sawyer books or is there just one in what's it called? We can just easily go on Google and look, but you just want people to tweet you. I want people to tweet me.

Let's get out of here. All right. Hey, guys. I'm gone. Thank you so much for listening. Bye. Show 233 of the Bigger Pockets podcast. Hope you enjoyed it.

Until next time, I'm Josh Dorkin. That's Brandon Turner. Peace. No signing off? Weird. I'm signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small.

If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have been to be able to. from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. It's time for it's time for it's time. The random five. All right. And it's time for the random six,

which used to be the random five, but now the random six. We're going to ask you some quick questions, just completely random. Number one, name a public figure that has inspired you. Wow. Jose Rizal is National Hero of the Philippines.

I've heard the name. I don't know the story, but that's cool. I have not, but cool. I'll look it up. I'll look it up on Wikipedia later. All right. Can you solve a Rubik's Cube? No, I cannot.

I've tried. Aw. Me neither. I can't either. I'm learning. My daughter's better than I am, but yeah, I'm getting there. Number three. Do you shout out the answers at the TV when you're watching a quiz show or like a game show on TV?

I think I do. It's meanwhile since. I watched a game show, but I think I used to. All right. I do too. All right. If you could go back in history, who would you like to meet? All these history questions.

So when I lived in New Zealand, there was supposed to be this guy named Guy Fox who, I think, but a bunch of fireworks in the parliament or something. Yeah, they made the movie V for Vendetta kind of loosely about that. Yeah. So I would like to meet that guy. He sounds pretty cool. The guy with the mask. The mask comes.

That's the Guy Fawkes mask is what V-Famida uses. Anyway, good movie. Cool. All right, good answer. Next one. If you could try out any job for a day, what job would that be? Huh. I think I'll be a bigger pocket's ghost.

Nice. Oh, look at that. Taking my job. You know what? Man. There might be a job for more than a day. I have a better internet connection. Yeah, you probably do.

Oh. Oh. Burn. I'm working off my phone today. My stupid internet went out. I don't know. Last night I was having problems and today it's just gone. So I'm tethering on my phone.

Whatever. All right. Last question. Last question. Do you live by any motto or philosophy? A motto. I'm not very good with words. But if there is a motto to my existence, it's probably just keep trying.

Okay. I like it. That's fair. I dig it. I think it for sure. Well, thank you very much. All right. Thanks for having me.

Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle, active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress? Here's a better question. What if you could buy brand-new construction homes, 10% below market value, in the best markets across the country, without making real estate your second job? That's exactly what rent-to-retirement does. They're a full-service, turnkey investment company, handling everything for you. In some cases, investors get 50 to 75% of our down payment back at closing, plus interest rates as low as 3.75%.

They've partnered with BiggerPockets for over a decade, helping thousands invest smarter. If you want to do the same, visit BiggerPockets.com slash retirement to learn more.