BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 237: Partnerships & BRRRR Investing While Working Full-Time With Ian Reeves

Episode Date: July 27, 2017

In this episode of The BiggerPockets Podcast, we’re excited to talk about two incredibly powerful strategies any real estate investor (new or experienced!) can use to grow their business: partnerships and BRRRR investing. Today’s guest, Ian Reeves, used a combination of both these strategies to build an incredible portfolio in just the past few years, having started after listening to this very podcast. This episode is sure to blow your mind with both education and entertainment, so sit back and prepare to have your world rocked forever! In This Episode We Cover: How Ian got started The details of his first property Why house hacking is a good idea How he has 65 units already Why he chose partnership Tips for finding the right partners through BiggerPockets The pros of being a part of an REI meetup What you should know about the BRRRR strategy A look into whether you should buy expensive properties Where he got his initial loan The dangers of commercial loans The importance of having the right mindset The secret to scaling quickly The worst deal he has ever done And SO much more! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Forums Creation Festival Northwest 10th Avenue North Fincon House Hacking 101 Brandon’s Instagram Mindy’s Instagram BiggerPockets Events 500 Deals, the $100,000 Wholesale Paycheck, & the Systems That Make it Work with Tarl Yarber A Simple Morning Ritual to Help You Dominate Every Area of Your Life with Hal Elrod Tim Ferriss Show: Derek Sivers How to Find and Fund Real Estate Deals with Anson Young Books Mentioned in this Show Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki The Millionaire Real Estate Investor by Gary Keller The Miracle Morning by Hal Elrod Set for Life by Scott Trench The One Thing by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan The Book on Rental Property Investing by Brandon Turner The 4-Hour Work Week by Tim Ferriss Mastery by Robert Greene 80/20 Sales and Marketing by Perry Marshall Fire Round Questions Mailing campaign – letter, post cards (Still a good idea?) I just turned 22, what is the best path for a strong portfolio? How the Heck Are You Doing 5-10 BRRRRs Per Year?! Looking for networking advice Partnership Learning Process Tweetable Topics: “It’s a dangerous situation when you are not reinvesting your profits.” (Tweet This!) “Fifty percent of a deal is better than 100 percent of no deal.” (Tweet This!) “Just tell the people what you’re doing and they can sense the passion.” (Tweet This!) “All the information that you could ever want is already out there. It’s up to you if you implement or not.” (Tweet This!) Connect with Ian Ian’s BiggerPockets Profile Ian’s Facebook Profile Ian’s Youtube Channel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast. Show 237. I literally listen to every single podcast over, you know, a matter of four or five months. You can literally take everybody's mistakes, all the lessons learned that everybody's made. It's like Ben Labovich with a $30,000 house, four-hour work week thing. Do I do it myself or do I let somebody else do it? Like all those lessons, it's just so awesome because you can take all that advice from all these super smart people and then implement. and you don't have to make the same mistakes, you know.

You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on, everybody? My name is Mindy Jensen, host for today of the Bigger Pockets podcast. With me as always, Mr. Brandon Turner. What's going on, Brandon?

I haven't talked to in a thousand years. How are you doing? It's been a thousand years. How are? I'm fantastic. How are you? You look great for being a thousand and 30 or however you are. 31.

You've had a birthday since last time I chatted with you. Yeah, I'm actually 32 years old now. It's really depressing. Oh my God. You're so old. I'm feeling it like my bones. Boy, I hope someday I can be 32. Yeah, someday.

You know, just keep working out. Someday I can be. So what's going on? You know, I don't know. I just got back. I went to a music festival called Creation Northwest. It was like out in eastern Washington. It was like a five-hour drive.

And it was 105 degrees with 20 kids. I was like the adult chaperone for like 20 youth teenagers. And 105-degree weather with no air conditioning. And it was like the best week ever. So that was cool. Wow. That's not my best week ever. 120 degrees with no air is not my best week ever.

But I've been out in eastern Washington and yeah, it gets hot. It does. Funny story while I was there. Actually, I ran into a, number of bigger pockets people. There's like thousands of people at this concert thingy and walking around having a bigger pocket shirt on. And there were like at least, was it two or three people who stopped me and was like, no way. You're Brandon from Bigger Pock's podcast. So if that was one of you, if you're listening to this, you're awesome. I also met two guys. So this band

called 10th Avenue North. They're, you know, a pretty big band. Anyway, I found two of the guys in that band are both bigger pockets, at least two bigger pockets listeners. I met them both and they were like super cool. So anyway, Brendan and Rubin, you guys are awesome. So that was very cool meeting you guys. Awesome. Yeah. I wear my Big Pockets T-shirt all the time. Nobody has ever come up to me yet. Really? Well, I get it. I don't. I get it a lot when I wear this shirt. Yeah, weird. Anyway, you're a little visible than I am. I am like seven feet tall, right? That's what Josh always says or nine feet tall. You're either or, yeah, you're pretty tall. I am not. I am nine feet tall. I think stacked up, I could be nine feet tall. You should work on that. So,

yeah. What about you? What's new with you? Not so much as new. with me. I'm, oh, oh, I'm getting ready to go on a big trip. I'm going to, yeah, by the time this airs, oh, no, this will have aired right before the meetup. So I'm going to be in New York on August 2nd. I'm going to be at the New York City meetup with hosted by Darren Sager. And I'm going to be giving a talk on how I got through financial independence, through real estate investing, and how to use bigger pockets to grow your wealth. Today's show, actually. touches a lot on using bigger pockets to grow your wealth. We have Ian Reeves, who is an investor from Kansas City. He has learned a lot from bigger pockets. He started investing in real estate

kind of because of bigger pockets. I think it's safe to say that we're 112% of the reason why he's so successful. I would have to say that, you know. Yeah. So I'm going to be there on August 2nd and you can find that on the events and happenings page at biggerpockets.com slash events. I'm also going to be in Vermont, Maine, Chicago, Scotland, Dublin, and London. Wow. Because my husband planned the trip and he can't sit still. That's cool. Much like you in a few minutes, you will tell us your story about how you cannot sit still either.

Well, I can sit still. No, I don't have any. I'm actually staying home for a while. Well, I'm going to California tomorrow. But then I'm staying home for like two months. It's going to be crazy. I don't think I've been at home for two months in a row in a long time. Yeah, and then what happens after those two months?

Don't you have like 112 places to go after that? Pretty much, yeah. So, including FinCon. So come join us at FinCon. Mindy will be there. It's going to be fun. Yes, and Scott Trench, author of Stratel. Yeah, he's coming too.

Cool. All right. Well, with that, let's get to today's quick tip. So today's quick tip actually is very, very simple. This is like probably the most fundamental quick tip of all time. You guys need to invest in real estate. Here's what I, here's why I say that. So just quick story.

Hi. Yeah, there's a guy I know. He's a family member of mine who has a job, a pretty demanding job. And he just paid, he had a vacation scheduled off for months. And he was looking for this big vacation, paid all the money for the vacation. Everything was good. Three days beforehand, his boss says, sorry, you have to work. We don't have anybody to cover for you.

Sucks to be you. And made him skip and missed his entire vacation that he paid for. And you know what? When I heard that, I'm like, that's so sad. You know what? That's why I invest in real estate, because nobody can tell me. No. So quick tip today, get your budding gear and go invest in some real estate. Like if you do it today, 10 years from now, you look back and be like, man, I'm so glad

I started 10 years ago. Instead of 10 years from now going, man, I wish I would have started back then. So that's your quick tip. Yes, that's a really great tip. Invest in real estate. Invest in real estate. But don't just buy any house. Nope. Buy the right one. By the right ones. Buy smart. Hey, go biggerpockets.com to learn about investing in real estate. Weird. Our quick tip leads to a sales pitch. No, no, no, that's the advertisement. Oh, advertisement. Same thing. Bigger pockets is free unless you're a pro member, which you should be. But anyway, come to bigger pockets. Learn. Grow. Tell your boss, screw you, and then go on vacation. Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns

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Have NREG review your insurance with someone who gets investing at NREG.com slash BPPod. That's N-R-E-I-G.com slash B-P pod. Without further ado, let's bring in our guest. Ian Reeves is an awesome real estate investor from the Kansas City area, who's been doing a lot of good stuff with real estate. He's just started a few years ago after listening to the Bigger Pockets podcast. He's got, what, 70-ish units now? I mean, the guy's crushing it.

And we talk a lot about partnerships and how we've been able to grow that that way. Listen up. Let's bring him in. Ian, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast. How you doing, man? Hey, awesome. Appreciate you guys having me on. Super grateful. Yeah, this should be a lot of fun. So I guess why don't we jump right into it unless, you know, I'm going to be nice here at ladies first. Mindy, why don't you ask them the first question? Hello, Ian. Welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast. How did you get started investing in real estate? That was really good, Mind. What was your first deal? That was really good. My first deal. So I definitely. I definitely. I definitely. I definitely.

coffeeed Brandon a little bit on this deal. So how I got started. So I got really into kind of the personal development stuff, you know, about four years ago. And as you know, when you read one book, it tends to lead to three more. And I just kept reading it. Eventually, it kind of stumbled into like the financial side of things, right? And rich dad, poor dad, of course, that seems to be the book that for whatever reason you're, you're shaking your head. Yes. That's the one book that just really changes things for everybody. Right. And you know, so I closed the cover on that book. And I was like, you know, I'm going to figure out how to do this. And, of course, when you're trying to figure out how to learn how to do something, you get

under Google. So I started Googling and bigger pockets popped up. So, you know, I instantly was pretty hooked on bigger pockets. You know, your podcasts are just super motivating. It was awesome. And I just kind of went on a knowledge vendor for about the next four months or so. And, you know, I read all about Brandon's house hack. And I was like, you know, that seems like a really awesome way to get started.

So at that point, I'd never owned a home before. never mind an investment property so you know i started looking and you know pretty soon i found this duplex and it was actually kind of a perfect scenario so the one side was running out to awesome tenants it was running for 1250 which you know it's pretty good for this area and uh the other side was his family of you know they're kind of borderline hoarders and just completely trashed the place they've been in there for you know 12 12 years i think they'd been in there just completely wrecked it And, you know, they were having trouble still in the place, obviously, with that kind of tend in there. So I made them a little bit of offer, and it got accepted.

And, you know, kind of the rest is history. And what did you end up getting in? Two, I think it was 250. Okay. And where was that? In what area? Yeah, where, yeah. That's in Shawnee, Kansas.

So I'm in, I'm in Kansas City. And Shawnee is kind of an outskirt to Kansas City, but it's still kind of like the higher end of Kansas City, Johnson County area. So, you know, prices are a little bit higher, but rents are also pretty good. So it was right around. When I got all all sudden done, it was, you know, right around that 1% rule. Okay. So that was first deal. Cool.

And go ahead. Did you live in the other half or did you rent out the other half after you got rid of after the hoarders? I'm assuming the hoarders aren't still there? That is correct. So, I mean, part of the agreement was they had to serve them notice for me to buy it. And then obviously with FHA loan, and you have to live in half. So we went through that, got them, you know,

know, got them out. They were actually already on a month and month lease. So fortunately, that went pretty smoothly. And then, yeah, I moved into the terrible side, of course, not the good side. And then, you know, we went to work, get the thing rehab. So that one, I actually did all the rehab myself. And I quickly learned that if, you know, if I was going to scale things and do more, that that wasn't really an option. So it was a good learning experience, though. Yep. So let's talk about house hacking for a minute. I mean, first of all, for those people who have never heard of that term before. What we're talking about here is the idea of where you buy a small multifamily property like a duplex, triplex or a fourplex. And there's reasons why

two, three and four work well for this. And then you get a, you know, you move into one half rent the other half south. And like, and like you did, you did an FHA loan, which is what, three and a half percent down right now. Super low down payment. Which means you can, you know, effectively live cheaper than normal or even free if you buy a really good deal and have the tenants basically pay your whole mortgage. So it's a really, really good way to get started when you're trying to get started with real estate. I'm a big fan of it. I know Scott Trenchers wrote a book, and a lot of the book talks about this. The book's set for life. Talks about this idea of house hacking. So it's cool. I'm actually reading that right now. Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah. So very cool.

So do you recommend house hacking for other people? And if so or if not, tell us, you know, why. Honestly, I tell all my friends, if I could go back 10 years and give myself one piece of financial advice from the things I've learned, it would be house hack. And, you know, up to the foreplay. I mean, man, if you can house hack a fourplex, you might actually get paid to live there, you know? So absolutely single-handedly best piece of financial advice, I think that I could give to somebody to be house hack. And then all that money that you're saving, you know, that's just more money that you can put towards future investments. So that absolutely helped me out there. That's awesome.

And Brandon likes to think that he invented house hacking. He might have invented the term. But back when Brandon was in second grade, I was house hacking with my brother in my very first property. So it's a really, really, really great way to get into a property. Did they even have mortgages back then, like with all the dinosaurs and stuff? They did. I got a smoking deal at 7% interest. Oh, I really, yeah, I really thought that I was this top negotiator with my 7% mortgage.

Yeah, impressive. Yeah, I think I was about 3.25 there or something on there. Yeah, that's what I've got now. That's awesome. Okay, so you started a house hacking. Maybe why don't you bring us up to today and then we'll work backwards. In other words, like over the past few years now, what have you done? Like, what's your thing in real estate?

So this is going to sound a little crazy. So things have definitely escalated very quickly. So right now, I basically have three partners that I work with. So I'm 50-50 with one, 50-50 with another. And then there's me, one of the partners and another guy that used to be my boss at my previous company. We started a kind of a three-way venture to do some bigger stuff. So we're at 65 units right now and should be at 74 by the time this podcast comes out. Congrats. Okay. Wait a second. So you are personally at 65 or?

That's total. With all the partners like nothing. Total. So that's I'm involved in, you know, 65 units. Yep. So that's I'm either. Wow. Okay. So I have some that are 100. some that are 50-50, then I have some that are, you know, a third basically. Yeah. Okay. Cool. So, and are you only doing rentals? Are you flipping as well, wholesale and anything like that?

Also flipping, yeah. So flipping is kind of an extra source of income for us to buy, you know, basically to bore, buy, we want the long-term passive income, but flipping is just a way of, you know, raising capital so that we can buy and hold. So let me, let's talk about partnerships because this is something that I recommend to a lot of people. When you're getting started, partnerships can be a very powerful way. So my first question is, why did you choose to partner up with people instead of just doing it on your own? I mean, you got to give away half your profit. You don't want that, right? Yeah. Well, so I'm basically a

W-2 employee, right? So I have a normal full-time day job. And I did the house act thing where I was really having half of a duplex. I quickly learned it. There's, it's really difficult to do that while having a full-time job. And then, you know, on the flip side, when you're a full-time real estate investor, it's really difficult to get the good loans because, you know, your income is highly dependent. So when a full-time investor partners up with a, you know, a full-time W-2 employee and you kind of split up the responsibilities, I see it as like kind of this perfect partnership. That is so, so good. I want to stop you right there and just jump in and say there are so many people, I'm in the forums all day, every day. And there's so many people who say, I can't wait to quit

my job. I can't wait to quit my job. Well, before you quit your job, wait, how are you going to fund these properties? If you've got a W2 employee partner, that's awesome. Or maybe you just really like owning them, but you don't want to do the day to day having, keeping your job if you enjoy it. I mean, don't stay at a job that you hate just so you can buy another property. But, you know, it's, it's really important to be able to finance these properties. You're not going to be able to buy with no money. Sorry, Brandon. Absolutely. Yeah. Maybe low money. Mindy. Yes. You can't buy a house with zero dollars. Nobody just hands them away for free. You have to have someone's money. It doesn't have to be yours. You have to have somebody's. So Ian is the money man here. Yeah, pretty much. And it is, so having, I mean, I'm an engineer, so I make a fairly good salary. And the other thing is, you know, I live very cheaply. So Scott Trench, separate life thing, I'm very much on board with the live well below your means. So, you know, that that means that I can invest to see. significant portion of my income into real estate on top of having that salary to get the loans.

And, you know, a full-time person, you have to live off of something still, right? So, you know, if you're making this money in real estate, but you're cutting your legs out from under you by spending all that money, you know, it makes it really hard to grow that portfolio fast, whereas if you have your basic living expenses paid for, you know, with the job and invest the extra things are going to grow a lot faster. You know, I like that a lot. I like, you know, I talk about this idea often where when I was 27, or I say this on Bigger Pockets webinars a lot, kind of telling my story.

When I was 27, I achieved like financial freedom, you know, where I had enough rental income coming in to pay all my bills and I was quote unquote retired, right? So the problem with that, though, is like, you know, when I did it, I quit my job, I sat on a couch, I watched TV and I was like, it was like, I'm retired. I'm 27. This is amazing. And then I realized two things. One, like that life is miserable when you sit on a couch and watch TV.

all day. So that lasted like, you know, 20 minutes. But the second thing I realized is by living on all of my cash flow, which is what I was doing, I was making a few thousand dollars a month and, you know, paying my bills, I couldn't reinvest in greater properties, which kills your ability to do exponential growth. I mean, you can still grow. I mean, you just got to be really creative. But when you're not reinvesting your profits in any business, it's a very dangerous situation to be in. And so I stopped living on my cash flow. I don't take anything anymore from my rental properties, You know, except for occasionally, like if I flip a house, I'll go and go to Hawaii for a month. But like, I don't like to live on my cash flow because, yeah, it just kind of cannibalizes your

business. And so I think that's another really strong reason why having a full-time job, even if it means having to split your profits with a partner can be a really good idea. So I like that you say that. Absolutely. Cool. Yeah, 50% of a deal is better than zero percent of a deal. Or 100% of no deal.

100% of no. Yeah, that was, that's your question. I'll let you say it. Is that my quote? I don't even know. All right. I've seen you say that so many times. Okay, good.

Yeah, 100% of a great deal is better than 100% of no deal. You can tweet that to at Mind. What's your Twitter, Mindy? At Mindy at BP. At Mindy at BP or, I don't know, hit me up on Instagram. At Beardy Brandon. Do you guys know I changed my Instagram thing to Beardy Brandon? It's not a great name.

B-E-A-R-D-Y. Yeah. Okay, good. All right, good. Beardy Brandon, you can Instagram me. Is that a verb to Instagram somebody, kind of like to tweet, to gram someone? What do you say? What do you say, Ian?

I'm not, I'm going to say it is now. It is now. You can add that to house hacking and burr. There we go. We're going to Instagram. Brandon has created. There we go. I'm going to keep doing that.

All right. So let's talk about partners a little bit more. I mean, how did you find your partners? How did that develop into a partnership? I'm just, I'm going to be saying. a lot of good things about bigger pockets, but it was actually through bigger pockets, believe it or not. It's awesome.

Oh, no, don't talk good about bigger pockets. Yeah, don't do it. So that was where we originally connected. And then we got to talking a little bit on there through our local RIA group. We kind of got connected on Facebook. And then there was more, it was a long story. But, you know, we basically just started talking. We found out that we had really similar goals and where we wanted to go, you know,

kind of similar values. And we're both, I mean, I was, I was a completely. obsessed with this idea at this point, right? So, you know, I think he could just feel the energy and I can get it with him and, you know, things just, it just really worked out. So that's awesome. Well, it developed to quickly. On that note, that's another powerful thing about partnerships is that like, you know, a lot of times I think of when people think of a partnership, they think of we're splitting everything 50, 50 or, you know, I'm only going to make half as much as I would alone. But the truth is like, you know, the words, like I hate the word synergy because it's like 80s, like, I'm a middle manager yelling at the word synergy at like office space. But like, you know, The idea of like the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, right? So like you alone can maybe let's do maybe do one deal a year. And your partner alone can maybe do one deal a year. But together you can do dozens of things because like you build each other's energy. You're encouraging each other on.

You're, you know, excited together. You're saying like he could feed off your energy. You could feed off his. And you rock it so much more. So I love that as well. So do you all see as I get into my story that that was absolutely great. Okay. Well, let's go there.

But before we do, I'm like, if somebody listening to this show right now and they're like, you know, I need a partner. I need somebody. I work a full-time job. I need somebody who's enthusiastic. Do you have any recommendations? How can they use bigger pockets or, you know, local Rios? How can they use that to find a good partner? Networking is definitely really important.

And I honestly, until I got into real estate investing, I was never big on networking or really understood just how powerful it was. But, you know, from listening to you guys, I mean, you're always preaching, tell everybody what you're doing. you know, help everybody that asks and, you know, with no expectation of anything in return and good things happen. And, you know, that's absolutely, you know, what I was doing and good things happen. So you just, you just tell people what you're doing, and they can sense the passion. And one thing leads to another. And one thing led to another a lot for me. So just from doing that. Yeah, I want to circle back and reiterate what you just said. Tell everybody what you're doing

because you don't know where you're going to meet your next partner. You're at a reagroup. and you're just chatting with somebody about the weather or your favorite baseball team or, hey, what kind of investing do you do? I do this. Well, hey, I do that too or I want to get into that. And all of a sudden, you realize we could really make a great team. And the other thing that you said was, I'm drawing a blank. Help everybody without the expectation of anything in return. I mean, obviously, don't give somebody $50,000.

And oh, don't even bother paying me back. That's a dumb idea. But, you know, oh, you want to come check out my job site? You want to come help me for a day? Absolutely. It doesn't cost me anything as long as they don't mess it up. But absolutely help somebody out. Hey, here's my plumber because I don't need them next week.

Or here's, you know, whatever you need. Help somebody out if it's not going to cost you a lot of money to help them out. Because you never know who that is. They could come back. Hey, I got this deal that doesn't work for me. Do you want it? Absolutely. And they talk too.

So, I mean, it was actually just last week. I had a guy reach out to me from bigger pockets. And, you know, he read kind of some of my story. And he thought it was pretty cool. And he asked him we could beat up for coffee. And I was like, you know, I can do you better than that. So next weekend I've got to go, you know, check on some of my rehabs to around the neighborhood, things like that. So I was like, you know, just come along with me for a half a day.

And, you know, he was telling me afterwards, you know, I learned more from doing that than I ever would have, you know, going out to coffee with somebody. And he was really appreciative. That's awesome. There's that quote from Zig Zig Zig, though, that says like you can have everything, everything you want in life if you only help other people get what they want. I'm probably butchering that quote. But basically, yeah, if you just always try to help other people, man, it's, it always comes back in a very good way. So it does.

It does. Especially if it's just like a small thing to you can be so huge to them. Yep. Absolutely. Yep. So let me give you guys, for those people listening right now, let me give you guys a few actionable things you can do today. Like grab out a pencil and paper, write. the stuff down. I don't know if you're driving your car. Pull over because I'm going to give you guys

some very actionable things we can do. First of all, number one, number one, go to biggerpockets.com. slash events, E-V-E-E-N-T-S. BiggerPockest.com such events is where people post local events in your area. So you can go there. There's a map of your whole area and you can see what's going on and you can see if there's a local event. You can start attending. I would highly recommend attending at least one thing a month in your area and just tell everybody that's there what you do, what you're looking to do, what you're excited about, and just meet as, people as you can. Now, if there's not an event in your area, that's awesome because it means you can be the hub, you can start an event in your area. So go ahead and host a local event. Go to find like a restaurant

or a Perkins or a Denny's or a Ram restaurant or whatever. Who cares? A bar restaurant club, nightclub, whatever and host a bigger fight. She like my beatbox. Check my beatbox. Maybe a little loud. Yeah, maybe a little loud at the nightclub. But, you know, host an event. Like, you're the hub now. You might start with five people and end up with hundreds. In fact, I was at the fixate. I think it's called Fixated on Real Estate Event, something like that up in the Seattle area. But Tarrell, who was here on the podcast a while back, he started that with like a few people and they have like 200 people now showing up. It's awesome.

So anyway, then you become like the hub. People want to get to know you. You get to know everybody and it's a huge way to go out. So that's number two tip. Number three tip, go to biggerpockets.com slash meet M-E-E-T. And you can find people in your zip code or if you're a pro member, you can find people anywhere like within a radius of your zip code. And then find one person that's like a, you know, who looks successful or appears to be

doing what you want to do and take them out to lunch, coffee, dinner, go follow them around at their job site, offer to pick up supplies at Home Depot for them, whatever. Those are just like three very simple things that everybody listening to this can do today, you know, to increase your networking. So there you go. Yes. Or ask them what they need. There you go. Yep. You know, not necessarily, hey, can I go to Home Depot and pick up supplies for you? But what can I help you do? I want to learn from you. Here's, and again, you're giving to them. They will give back. to you just in knowledge, just in like sharing the the job site tour or the, you know, here's how you order supplies. Do you know how to order supplies for rehab? Yep. If you've never

done it before, you might miss out on, you're going to miss out on stuff. Oh my God, I remember going to Home Depot every day. Yep. Oh, me too. The lady at Home Depot said, you look really familiar. Like I'm here every single day. I used to like Home Depot. I'm kind of starting to get tired of it. Same. Yeah. I think my record was. nine times in one day. Those are the plumbing days when you're working on plumbing. Yeah. It's like, oh. You never get all the plumbing supplies. I hate plumbing. Yeah, me too. Hate it. But I hate it with a passion. I do it way too much. Anyway. In fact, just like 20 minutes ago, my like garbage disposal line blew up under my, under my kitchen sink.

And I'm like, I'll fix that later. And I'm like, no, I won't fix that later. Heather, call a plumber. Let's get this. Because like, yeah, I'm not touching it. It'll be nine trips to the Home Depot. So anyway, all right, back on topic here. So, You got these partners. You started buying stuff. What kind of came next in your story? So again, I started copying you. So I read about the Burr strategy.

Okay, good. I read the book on rental property investing. And I read about the Burr strategy. And I was like, wow, it just made sense to me. And it clicked. And, you know, my goal was to build my portfolio as quickly, but as safely as possible. And obviously, if you just go and put 20% down on every single deal,

that's not going to take you very long to run out of money. and that process is going to take really long. So, I mean, the only other option is to borrow all the money, and that doesn't make it. You don't want to do that. That's a terrible idea, right? So I read about the bird strategy. And so my partner, Matt, and I, you know, we decided that's kind of where we wanted to put our focus. And so we immediately went out and bought two properties at the same time, two bird properties

and, you know, started going to the rehab process. You know, my partner, Matt, he'd actually been a real estate investor full time for, I think about three years at that point. So he kind of already had, you know, some experience doing this. So it wasn't like we were starting off from scratch. And, you know, we got in there. We got them turned around in a matter of, I think it was probably six or seven weeks or something. And we got them turned around. And immediately went refinanced both of them into one loan and got them rented out.

Actually, before we were even done, we were over restarting on our next ones. So, yeah, that's kind of how it went. That's awesome. Okay. So just for people who are listening who may not know, Burr is B-R-R, there's four R's in there. Buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat. And why are you doing this? Basically, we're combining the best parts of house flipping with the best parts of buy in old real estate.

So we're buying at a discount. So you're all running through the numbers on one of our recent deals, just for example. So we bought a house for $29,000. By the way, other than my duplex, all of my other properties are over on the on the Missouri side and a kind of cheaper zip code. So we bought this house for $29,000. We put $12,000 into the rehab. At that point, this house appraised for just under $70,000. So then we took out, this was on a short term loan to begin with.

And then we refinanced into a long-term commercial mortgage. So they'll actually do 80-20. So it's an 80% loan to value. So 80% of that, you know, $70,000 is what they give us a loan for. That basically paid off the short term in any cash that we had into it originally. We got all our money back to go do it again. We own a, you know, a cash-fowing property with basically $0 into it. That's awesome.

I love that. So, yeah. Again, I love the birth. My favorite. Yeah, I love that strategy a lot because now you've got a property, you've got equity in it, but you've got no money into it. I mean, yeah, some people will go out there and they'll put it 20 or 30 percent down payment on a deal and they got $20 or $30,000 stuck into a deal like that.

But this case, you're in the same position as those people are, but you just hustle to make sure you didn't have any money in that deal. So you still got equity. You got cash flow. You got options. And it does, the Burr's strategy does wonders for your net worth. Because, I mean, you're basically creating a house flips worth of equity on every single deal that you're doing, right?

So you're making $20, $30,000 in equity on every deal that you do, right? So absolutely. And the good thing is the properties here are pretty cheap. So, I mean, that house that appraised for $70, we're renting it for $9.75. So I mean, we still got really good cash flow on that house, even with the slightly bigger loans. So it's awesome. Yeah, those numbers are solid. Yeah.

So what is your monthly payment on a $70,000, an 80% 70,000? loan. Oh, man, you're testing me here. Probably, I think it's on the order of about 400 bucks, something like that. So you're paying out $400 a month and you're bringing in, did you say $9.50? 975. I quit you and I quit Brandon and all your cheap houses and I'm leaving now. I, I, honestly. Mindy and I were looking at a deal the other day. I had Mindy, Do you actually go drive that, you drive by the property that I had you looked at? I did. Yeah.

I made a video for you. Oh, you're awesome. Yeah. So there was a mobile home park for sale near where Mindy lives. And so I hit her up and said, hey, you want to go check this out and see if it's something we can do. Anyway, they're asking like, what was it? What was it?

What was it? It was like $2 million more than what I could pay. And I'm like, I kind of expect that for like Mindy's area or like Ian's area would be a little different. Yeah, but you drive past the mobile home park. And it's, it's tidy. The houses are. in decent shape, but they're old. They're like in 1970s mobile homes. They're, you know, the metal

corrugated sighting and it was originally on sale for, like, it was listed for like $5.9 million. Like who is, it's not even ambitiously priced. It's like you're smoking crack. There's no way. You're ever going to get this much money for this. Can I say that on the podcast? You can now. You're the host. You can do whatever you want. Yeah, that's, that's like just how life is. certain areas are just a lot better than other areas. And I like Ian how you also mentioned, you know, you bought your first duplex for $200 and some thousand dollars. But then, like across the state line, like there's, my point is there's different areas, even where you live, like where anybody lives here, there's areas that are

higher and areas that are lower. And areas usually within a two hour drive of where you live that you can get cash flowing properties. That's not true everywhere, but almost everywhere. So that's neat. For the duplex, I wanted to live there and, you know, it'd be a nice neighborhood and be close to work and all that. So, you know, I was making a little bit of sacrifice on the cash flow. But then again, you're putting three and a half percent down on FHA loan. So it makes a lot more

sense to do it on that property versus an investment property. Yeah. And there are reasons, though. I mean, like Scott Trench, and I have this debate a lot, you know, he wrote Seth for Life. And he's a lot, he's a lot more ambitious to get the bigger problem. He'll buy a duplex for $300,000, $400,000. And he's okay with that because his strategy is different than mine. Mine has always been cash flow purely because I wanted to be able to get out of a job as quick as possible and to be able to fund my life, right? But for him, it's more of like, let's buy a property that it does cash flow. He wants cash flow, but he's bigger on, is Denver going to be worth more than Kansas City

10 years from now? Most likely, yes. I mean, that $250,000 duplex or $300,000 duplex is going to be worth $600,000 because Denver's insane. Yeah. You know, so not that he's betting on appreciation. I want to say Scott's betting on appreciation, but he's, he's wagering that Denver's market will do better over the long term.

He's looking long. And I don't think he's wrong. I think there's just two different strategies in different ways of doing this. Yeah. Bigger property, bigger loan. You get more loan pay down to also. So, right. Yeah.

It's like my apartment complex. I'm paying down, you know, thousands of dollars every month. It's like, this is fantastic. Like, it's like automatic wealth building. Like so, yeah, they're definitely, I'm not, yeah. So, don't, if you're listening to this right now, don't think that you should never buy an expensive property. It's just different strategies for different people.

So that's one thing I love, love about real estate. So, so cool. All right. ask you this about that birthing. So a couple of things. First of all, where did you get the initial loan to buy the property? A lot of people struggle with that and then a lot of people struggle with getting the refinance. So let's talk about both those. Yeah, where'd you get the initial short-term short-term short-term short-term short-term short-term fixed-and-flip loan? Yeah, so actually, there. And actually, they're based out of Denver. And they're a short-term fix-and-flip lender. And,

you know, they require, I think it's 10% down for fix-and-flip loan. The rate's about 10.5% and I think they're two points. So, you know, for short-term loan, that's pretty dang good. Yeah, that's not too bad. Yeah, that's really good. Yeah. Okay. So you went, you went with them and then how long was that mortgage for? Like, how long did you have to pay it back? One year. Okay. One year. And so this is a problem with, like, that people run into with Byrd, one of the biggest downsides of the Burr strategy is you have to get in and out pretty quickly. And a lot of banks don't like you to refinance within, you know, they want you to wait at least six months, sometimes even a year.

They want you to wait to refinance. Is that why you went with the commercial lender to refinance? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we had zero seasoning with the commercial, the commercial lender. We could, we had a lot more flexed. The rates, obviously, you're going to pay a little bit more for the rates. So I think we're, we're a 5.756% versus if I wouldn't conventional, we could probably get four.

But yeah, there's absolutely no seasoning. So, I mean, it's, you know, buy a property, have the thing rehab, and immediately refinanced. You know, it allows you to get property a lot quicker. Yeah. And the other thing is obviously with a conventional loan, you can only get up to 10 anyway. And I was planning on buying way more than 10. So I knew I was going to hit that limit eventually anyway. So, you know, I guess that was kind of my main reasoning.

Yeah, I love it. Now, one of the dangers of, and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, but like, one of the dangers of using commercial loans is that usually the term is a lot lower. Like, it might be amortized over a long time, but you have to pay it back. shorter. Is that true for your, in your case? Or do you still have 20 year? Okay. So is there, is there a balloon payment on there as well? Do you have to pay it all? No, it's 20 year. Yeah. Oh, okay. Cool. So I mean, that's fantastic. I mean, like, so I've done some commercial loans where they're like, you know, it's amortized or, you know, spread out over 20 or 25 or even 30

years, but you got to pay it back in seven years. I've got a couple of those right now, which at the time, I was like, oh, seven years, years, plenty of time. And now I'm like, oh, I got four years left, you know, or three years left. Yeah. I better start, you know, and so, but it just shows that if you shop around a little bit, you can find commercial lenders who will go a little bit longer. And we actually, yeah, go ahead. I was saying we actually recently got a lender to go 25 years on a commercial loan too. So absolutely after a while, yeah, I actually did, I honestly didn't think you'd get a 25 year on a commercial, but we ended up finding lender that would. That's fantastic.

Very cool. Man, this is awesome. I love, I love hearing, this is just my ego, but I love hearing when I, when I teach things and then people do them and succeed. I'm like, hey, I'm not a fraud. Look at me. Hey, nobody said you weren't a fraud. Oh, wait, that's true. That's right.

Nobody said you weren't a fraud. I still might be a fraud. But like, just like, you know, things worked for me. And so I talk about things that work for me. Like the birth strategy just worked really well for me. And that's how I built my portfolio. So when I see other people doing it, I'm like, yes. Like, that's pretty cool.

That's very awesome. I think there's a lot to be said for somebody who actually says it. It's one thing to know something, but then to be able to teach somebody else. And, you know, hey, this works for me. It might work for you. And then it does. It really validates your mindset. It gives you like, vindication isn't the word. No, but it's the word. Validation. Validation. Yeah. Validation. So, so what was the time frame for your, for that flip? That $29,000, $70,000 ARB flip. How long did it take to do it? Yeah, from purchase date to,

well, and how did you find it? That was actually from a wholesaler. So, you know, I was talking earlier about the power of networking. And once I got into real estate investing, that's where I really understood that you absolutely have to network. So I became kind of a networking machine around here. But, you know, I developed some pretty good relationships with wholesalers. And, you know, I'd say probably 70% of our deals are coming from wholesalers at this point. We have done a little bit of MLS.

And I was doing my own direct mail for a little while. But, you know, the majority is definitely wholesalers. That's cool. That's very cool. And who is your commercial lender? Is it a local, like a credit union or is it like a big name branch? Like I don't want to name any of them. Definitely a small local lender for sure.

Yeah, portfolio lender. Absolutely. Okay. And do you have a personal relationship with that bank? I saw a question the other day on the on the forums where somebody was trying to get a loan and the lender said, well, we'd like you to transfer all of your banking to us. And they're like, well, you didn't say that that was a condition of the loan when I first got it. So do you have, and I have a local lender that I also do some banking with just so I don't have to deal with that later.

But do you have a personal relationship with them? I did not, but I do now. So that was actually, you know, one of the things is I kind of vetted a bunch of different banks. And I actually, you know, I also learned this from you guys, but I actually went in there. You know, I got myself dressed up. I went in there and I sat down with them. I told them what I was doing. I brought some pictures, some information on, you know, here's what I'm doing.

Here's what my numbers look like. Here's what my goals are. And I actually sat down with the bankers and, you know, went through that with them. That was hugely helpful just having that personal relationship. And then, you know, once I kind of picked one that I wanted to go with, absolutely, I opened a checking account with them. And he actually told me, you know, that kind of goes a long ways with, you know, our management, the fact that you have a checking account with us.

So, yes, I did. That's awesome. I think that's important. That goes a long way. And what did it cost you? Nothing because you were going to still have a checking account. Yep. Absolutely.

That's awesome. So yet another reason why you don't spend every dime you make. So you can park 500 bucks at some local bank or a thousand bucks at some local bank. And now all of a sudden you're a big deal. Yeah. Sorry, Brandon, go ahead. No, that's okay. That's all good.

So there's a quote from a guy named Derek Sivers, who if you guys have never heard of Derek Sivers, he's fantastic. Check him out on, he was on Tim Ferriss's podcast, but while back a couple times. Anyway, so Derek Silver has this quote that says, if more information was the answer, we'd all be, was it, rock star billionaires with six-pack abs or something like that. Yeah. In other words, all the information we'd ever want is out there. People can succeed. So it's not just the information that people need. People are struggling to get started in real estate for years and years. It's not because of lack of information. So I want to know, like, your thoughts on,

like, what is the right mindset that somebody needs? What is it that somebody needs to become successful? How did you differentiate yourself and stand out and scale so quickly, even though you're working a full-time job? And what is it different about your mindset that a lot of people don't have? So that was another thing that I learned is that is absolutely critical to being successful as developing the right mindset. So I kind of mentioned that, you know, I got really into the personal development stuff. This was probably four years ago.

And like you said, what really changed it for me is I got really into reading. So just as you said, all the information that you were. you could ever want is absolutely out there. It's just, you know, are you actually going to implement it or not? So, you know, there's a lot of books that I read about, you know, developing the habits. So, like, I know Hal Elrod was actually a guest on your podcast. He was the author of that Miracle Morning. So that's, you know, I implemented that a few years ago. And, you know, that was huge. Just waking up every morning, writing down your goals and, you know, having the routines that basically reinforce that so that you're looking at it every day. Because, you know, if you don't develop those routines, you know,

teens and those habits, you're going to get yourself into a rut. You're never really going to get that far just because you don't have them. So, you know, I absolutely think that the mindset is, is critically important for being successful. Yeah, I think so too. I think, and I think like you said, it's like developing those habits, like certain type, certain things you do, right? Like, it's not what you want. It's what you do in life that matters, right? So, you know, like, what are these daily things that you can do? Do you have anything like that? Like, what are some actions that and you think real estate investors who are struggling to get started, what are some simple things that they can do in their life right now to, you know,

take action every day? So I definitely think establishing a morning routine. So that's going to sound a little weird, like the meditation for me, like that was a huge thing is, you know, having that silence first thing in the morning to where, you know, I'm kind of, you know, forgetting about all the other stuff I got going on and creating some silence to just think about, you know, clear in my mind. And then going over my goals,

every single day, you know, doing affirmations, the whole miracle morning routine. I absolutely do that. And then there's the constant stream of motivation and information that you need as well. So like the podcasts and books, you know, I would listen to books on tape. You know, when I was getting ready in the morning, I'd listen to them as I was driving to work. I'd listen to him at my lunch break sometimes. I'd listen to them while I was driving home and even at the gym. So, you know, after reading like Rich Dad Portia, I just,

got so motivated and pumped up that, you know, I fed myself a tremendous amount of information there in about four months and it just absolutely kept me motivated. So the bigger podcast podcast is, you know, absolutely an excellent tool for keeping yourself motivated. So you're listening about these stories about people that created financial freedom for the selves and the families. And, you know, it's just super inspiring and motivating. And, you know, when you're creating these routines to surround yourself with that kind of information every day, it's just, you know, you're going to, you're going to stay motivated. I love that.

I love that. And it is something like you have to kind of stay motivated. It's very easy to get excited about something, especially when you're listening to a podcast or whatever. And you get excited about real estate. And then a month later, it's like, you know, I'm not as interested anymore. There's a thing called, I don't remember what book I read this in.

I think it's called the law, well, I don't know a book, but the thing is all the law of diminishing intent. It basically says like the amount of time, right, between when you get excited about something and then actually take action, And the longer that is, the less chance you ever have of taking action on that. So, you know, if you're excited about real estate now, if you wait a month, you're probably, you have a less chance than if you start right today. And so I'm a big believer in, just jump in, take action.

Start doing little steps, even if they're just small steps every single day. Absolutely. They don't have to cost anything. Go to a RIA meeting. Go to a local meetup that you find on biggerpockets.com slash events. Go to, you know, call up somebody. Can I take you out for coffee? that's actually going to cost a little bit, but under 10 bucks and you can have an hour-long

conversation with somebody or buy them lunch and have even more. That's true, very, very true. All good stuff. Well, this is awesome. So before we kind of head over to the fire round stuff going on, can you, like, I mean, where are you headed in your journey? Anything else you want to share about your journey that we haven't covered yet and then where you're headed?

Yeah, so I want to talk a little bit about how I scaled so quickly. So, you know, we kind of went through three units there and I'm at 65 now. So a lot of stuff kind of happened between then and now. So, you know, so I had my first partnership going. And then it was around that time that I got, you know, I found out from my previous employer that. So I worked, I worked for construction engineering company. I worked all over the country for about the first seven years going from power plant to power plant. And, you know, my boss came into my office and told me, we're looking to send you back out to the field again here.

So, you know, I had all these investments going at that time. And, you know, I was, I was really into it. So there is no way that I was going to let that stop me. And it's a long story short, I ended up, you know, reaching out to another company. And I actually ended up leaving that job and enjoying another company. And I get every other Friday off, which has also been hugely helpful for my real estate stuff. And the good thing about that was it freed up my 401K. It freed up my company stock got paid out.

I got all my vacation paid out. So I had a pretty big chunk of money again. So, you know, at that point, I rolled my 401K into a checkbook control, self-directed IRA, bought two more properties with that. So that's an awesome way of investing, by the way. You know what? I thought that was pretty cool. And then in the process, so I was buying a house for my 401K,

and that's actually when I met my second partner. And I told him in passing. you know, hey, have you ever find a deal that, you know, you can't take down on your own, you know, let me know. And it wasn't a week later. And, you know, he had to deal. And he was kind of in a similar financial situation where he was having a hard time getting some loans. He had a ding on his credit and things like that. But he'd been an investor for 15 years, super talented guy when it comes to finding deals, getting rehabs done cheap, things like that. But kind of what he lacked was like the structure and the management and all that kind of stuff.

And, you know, I spent 10 years in the construction engineering industry, you know, managing these big power plant jobs. So that was kind of like my area of, you know, expertise. So his strengths are my weaknesses and vice versa. So again, you got that really good partnership. And it was kind of the same story. So now I'm working deals with both of them. And then, you know, we immediately did one house, another, another. I think our first refy, we did four houses at once.

Matt and I got another three. going and you know things just blew up really quick and then you know we kept going and then so the three-way partnership how that started was it's kind of crazy how all this came together but uh he was my my previous boss and my old old company and you know originally the plan was he saw what i was doing so like i said share you know share what you're doing to everybody i was really big on social media sharing bigger pocket stuff and uh you know people saw what i was doing they're getting really interested. And he was one of those people. And originally he just wanted to buy a turnkey properties from us. So we were going to flip them and basically sell them to him for a little still under

market value, but at a, you know, a profit. And then he's this really high level business guy. I mean, he was a project manager on $700 million power plant job, right? So he's a, he's a really high level, high level business guy, super talented. And we quickly figured out that he wanted to be a little bit more than just like the passive investor, right? So he absolutely saw the potential in what we were doing. And so we started going after some bigger stuff. We got an eight unit department building that we took down. You know, then we had this kind of holy grail, awesome, awesome deal on some commercial property that I don't know if you want me to tell you that story or not. Sure. I'll love to hear it. There's always the one deal that you got to brag about. So this is there. It's here. So, so. So. So.

partner Mike, right? He was always kind of interested in the commercial space. So these are like, like strip center, like no space would have like an attorney or a CPA or like the small stores and stuff like that. And we pretty much just turned him loose to make lowball offers and see what we can get. So this guy was making five offers a day. Anyway, so he made the super lowball offer on these. It was three buildings in Belton, Missouri, which is kind of another smaller town. It's just not that small. And it was a four unit. a two and a two. This is all commercial space. And he was literally about 50 cents on the dollar of what we thought this stuff was worth. So he made an offer. And to our shock, it actually got accepted.

And of course, you know, when a lobel offer like that gets accepted, you're not sure you should be excited or worried, right? So then we started doing some research trying to figure out what happened here. And what we found out was there is this guy who was a big developer in this town. And And, you know, he developed a lot of property over the years. He'd sold most of it off. And he'd, he'd passed away. And he left his kids a bunch of money and then these properties, right, the ones that were left. And the kids were out of state. They lived in Indiana. They really didn't know what they were doing. They didn't want anything to do with this property. And come to find out, not only did they have these three buildings, but they actually had another two, you know, down the street a little ways.

And they also had some vacant land. So to cut a long story really short. We ended up making them an offer on this whole package. It was a total of 17 units of commercial space. Everything was leased except for two and the land. And we made them an offer of $1.26 million. And, you know, we got to, we got accepted. We got through the whole loan process and everything. Got it praised, praised for $2.4.

Oh, wow. So he basically made $1.2 million in equity on this one deal. And I actually raised. So I was telling you about investing with this self-traum. I did IRA. So that was another thing that I was telling all my friends about, right? And I had a couple friends that recently left the company that I used to work for. And, you know, they had some pretty chunk, big chunks of money in their IRA. And they're like, we're making 6% here. I'm tired of it. And they actually invested in that deal. So we actually funded the balance of that deal with

those guys. We're making them a good return. So we were actually pretty much, we had zero of our own dollars or pretty close to zero of our own dollars into that deal. And yeah. That's awesome. already have $1.2 million in equity. Yeah. So we'll refinance that back out at some point and cash them out and, you know, probably help them reinvest. But, yeah, that was a pretty awesome deal.

That's cool. That's awesome. Nice. All right. So that's probably your best deal. What's your worst deal you've ever done? I've got this single family house. I mean, it was a $50,000 house, right?

and it just keeps bleeding. Like just like literally in the same week we had, you know, furnace goes out, water heater goes out, we got a leak in the roof, tenants been a pain, just like everything that you could possibly imagine just went wrong with this house and pretty much break even on it. So I haven't had anything really bad happen yet, but no, it's just the little things. I overestimated the ARB.

So when we did the refi, we got stuck with quite a bit of money left into it. it. So it's kind of been a pig from day one. And, you know, I'll, I'll be happy to sell that house one day. Yeah. I have one. So are you looking to sell it? Sure. I'll sell it to you. No, no, I don't want to buy it. Well, yeah, now that it's got a new furnace, a new water heater, a new roof, that's the time to buy it. Sure. Let's talk after the show. Do you know a good property manager? I do, yeah. So that was, that's obviously another big opponent's having good property managers. Yeah, so you don't manage your own properties. I'm assuming you have somebody that manages all that for you.

I managed three of them myself. So that duplex, I'm self-managing and I've got one other. But other than that, no, we're pretty much 100% managed. And, you know, the awesome thing is listening to you. So I literally listen to every single podcast over, you know, a matter of four or five months. You can literally take everybody's mistakes, all the lessons learned that everybody's made. It's like Ben Labovich with a $30,000 house. You know, the four-hour work.

week thing. Do I do it myself or do I let somebody else do it? Like all those lessons, it's just so awesome because you can take all that advice from all these super smart people and implement it and you don't have to make the same mistakes, you know? Yeah, that's one of my favorite parts of the show. Brandon gets to listen to all the shows as he records them. I listen to them as I drive in. And that's one of my favorite parts of the show is just listening to the mistake made. Oh, I never knew that that was not the right thing to do. Or, I never thought about that possibly going wrong. So it's, you know, you can go to the school of hard knocks or you can learn from other people's mistakes.

And learning from other people's mistakes is so much less bruising. So much less. Absolutely. You're still going to make some yourself. So I don't want to make it sound like everything's gone right because we've had plenty of problems. Not me. I'm perfect. I've never made a mistake.

I agree. Mindy has been perfect as long as I've known her. Perfect. I totally did not buy at the top of the market in 2007 and have all of my money stuck in one house for that whole time. Nope. Not me. Good, good. I'm glad to hear you didn't do that, Mindy.

So let's move on. Last question before we head out to the fire round. Like where do you see your investing going in the next five or ten years? You know, we're going to continue to grow. So I've got pretty big goals for where I want to get passive income wise. and I think in the short term, we're probably going to do a few more flips and just try to build up that cash reserve a little bit, pay off some of the investors and things like that, and being a little bit more of a conservative model. But, yeah, we're going to continue to grow. I'm obviously still working the full-time job.

And I think eventually the, you know, I like my job. I actually really like what I do in engineering. I think eventually I'd kind of like to maybe do part-time or figure out some ways. to get some more flexible hours to where I could, you know, if I want to go spend a week with my family or go on a trip or something like that, you know, I can do that. So it's absolutely going to come a time where the flexibility is more important than the W-2 pay. And there's going to come a time where the rental income over- overtakes my W-2 income. And it's actually not that far away. So I know going to continue to grow. So that's really it. I love it. Yeah, I was going to ask you if you

like your job. And if you were going to, if you were planning on leaving or, you know, I love my job. it's it's kind of hard not to. But yeah, I really love my job. I don't want to leave. Yeah. Like Brandon was saying, I'm way too tight pay to sell on a couch all day. There's just no way. I drive myself nuts.

TV sucks now. Like I could binge watch one show on Netflix for and then just feel so lazy. You got to get up. You can't just sit there and watch TV. Yep. Absolutely. All right. Well, this has been awesome.

Ian, it's great to hear more about your story so far because like I, you and I have been Facebook friends for a while. And so I see you post stuff a lot and you're really good about posting, you know, stuff. And I want to commend you also, but you sent earlier, we kind of glossed over it, but you post a lot of things to your Facebook, like share bigger pockets articles and you do these videos that you're just talking about mindset stuff. And like all that stuff is so good because it all your family and friends then see what you're doing and it attracts like minded people to you. And then they're like your boss that you're old bus like saw what you're posting and got excited about real estate as well. So I mean, not even from a selfish standpoint. You can share anybody's

articles. But if you share bigger pockets articles, like it just says, hey, this is good real estate information. And if you're interested in it, you know, just, I'll just keep sharing it. And then Facebook knows who's interested in what content. So they start showing it to more people. And then those people become closer friends. And yeah, it's worked out well for me as well. Yeah. Honestly, social media. So I mean, there's good and bad to social media, but I've honestly been, you know, it's done a lot of good for me. Honestly, I've been shocked at just how many people have, you know, seeing what I'm doing and reached out to me and, you know, super interested in what I'm doing. absolutely. Cool. I love it. All right. Well, let's shift gears here.

That goes back to tell everybody you know. Yeah, there you go. That goes back to tell everybody what you're doing. Yeah, exactly. Sorry, Brandon. That's all right. You cut me off, Mindy, whatever. You're the host. I'm just the co-host. The lowly co-host today. So with that, this co-host is going to transition us to the time for the fire round. It's time for the fire round. People love to call real estate passive income. which is interesting because most of the investors I know are very busy. Busy finding deals, busy managing teams, busy worrying they pick the wrong market. Rent to retirement flips that model. They help investors buy turnkey new construction homes, often 10% below market value in top rental

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If you own a rental property, don't assume you're covered. Have NREG review your insurance with someone who gets investing at NREG.com slash BPPod. That's N-R-E-I-G.com slash B-P-Pod. All right. So let's get to the fire round questions again. If our listeners are thinking, hey, I wish my question was answered on the BiggerPockets

podcast. Well, you should ask a question then over in the BiggerPockets forums. Go to BiggerPockets.com slash forums. Or if you are a smart person, or at least you've done some real estate, go over there and help answer a few questions. Even just a couple of week would be a tremendous help to somebody and you can change somebody's life. just by giving the right answer.

So it's kind of a cool area to do that. So number one, everybody I keep mailing to, basically everyone they mail to has already gotten three or four or five letters in the past. Is direct about marketing dead? You know that, so I have a lot of friends, obviously, they're wholesalers and they're telling me that, you know, their cost per acquisition is about three times what it used to be, you know, just a few years ago.

So I absolutely, I mean, there's still people making money in wholesaling, obviously. but, you know, it's definitely like here in Kansas City, it is super competitive. So you got to find a way to stand out. And, you know, I was just listening to Anson Young's, you know, podcast where he was on there talking about deals. And, you know, he was referring to some of the other, you know, the old school methods driving for dollars and, you know, more targeted marketing.

And you got to absolutely find, you know, a way to stand out from your competition. So, you know, if you're just doing the typical yellow letters to the typical list, yeah, you're probably going to have, you know, it's going to be a lot more difficult now. think in a few years ago for sure. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I totally agree. I do walking for dollars. We go on walks with my family in the neighborhood and I super targeted because I don't want to send letters to somebody who just bought the house last year. They're not probably going to know. It's kind of funny because I get letters now all the time. You know, that was me. No, I'm the one

getting letters. That's funny. So apparently people do market the people that, I mean, these are houses I bought six months ago. So apparently people do market to them. Yeah, I get letters too. And some of them, I could go on. I'm not going to. Okay. I'm going to ask you a question now. How the heck are you doing five to 10 burs per year? I have to wait six months on each one, right, to refinance? Yep. So that's what we're talking about with commercial loan versus conventional. So there's obviously some pros to going to go in conventional. You're going to get the 30 or fixed. You're going to get the better interest rates, but absolutely you're going to have the seasoning requirement. So, you know, to me, the other thing that really matters is what type of property are you buying? So with me,

I'm buying these high cash flow properties. They've got a lot of margin on their cash flow. So for me, I can afford to take the 6% interest rate versus, you know, a 4. If I'm in the Denver area and I'm buying a more expensive one, then I want to make sure I've got the, you know, the least amount of interest rate risk and the lowest interest rate because I have a more expensive asset and I have a lot less, you know, margin on my cash flow. So, but absolutely going with the commercial lender, you can get around all that. You have zero seasoning. So it's basically as fast as you can get that property rehab, you can go and immediately refinance. Yeah, you know, that brings me back to something that Brandon has said on the podcast several times is that not every property is a good deal.

He said that I don't remember what episode it was, but he was talking about how he had run the numbers on this property. And it didn't matter which way he ran the numbers. They would have had to pay him $15,000 to take the house off their hands for it to be a good deal. So yeah, if you don't have a lot of leeway, you know, make sure you run all the numbers. And what happens if you can't refinance it 80% out? You know, what if you don't hit your ARV? Yeah. And the other thing is with a commercial loan, so I mean, these are five-year arms, which means after five years, they can adjust. Now, mine are, mine are capped out at 10%. So the max that they could ever go to is 10%. But, you know, when I'm running my numbers, I'm absolutely looking at, well, worst case scenario, if this thing goes at 10,

am I going to be able to cash flow? And, you know, the answer is that my properties will still barely, they'll barely cash flow, right? Well, they'll cash flow a little bit. So you absolutely have to understand that that risk can quantify it when you're running your models. Because if you have 50 properties and they're on a five-year-arm, interest rate goes to 10, you got to understand what does that mean, right? Yep. Yep. Good point. Yeah. Cool. All right. Next question. It says, Hey, Bigger Pockets community, could you help me with the following? A friend approached me about wanting to invest in properties and wants to partner with me. This would be a first time for me. And I would be interested in hearing what are some strategies used by some of you in the past,

like cost sharing, responsibilities, how do we split earnings? I'll be finding the deals, closing on them and managing them. What do you think? So that is definitely somewhere where you need to tread lightly and you absolutely need to have everything written down and agreed upon ahead of time. So when my partner and I decided to partner up, we actually, you know, we basically made an Excel matrix of here's all the, here's all the things that have to happen from the very beginning to the very end of buying investment property. Here's all the roles and responsibilities. And then we put a name next to each one, right? And then we also wrote out, if this person doesn't do their share, here's what the consequences are. Right. So if, you know, if I'm supposed to be managing the property manager, then, you know, we've got consequences or we've agreed to exactly how that's going to work. So everything's written out. And then, you know, you talk about the importance of having a good attorney. You absolutely need to get an operating agreement written out. And all that stuff needs to be in it and in writing. And, you know, even if it's a family member, absolutely need to be completely formed with that process. Treat it just like it is a business transaction. You absolutely need to treat it like one.

I love that. Okay, I'm going to jump back. I'm going to jump back and say, you said, even if it's a family member, be completely formal and get everything in writing. Now, before you have money invested and commingled, now is the time to get that in writing. Brandon and I are going to partner. And I'm going to take 75% of the profits because I'm a girl. Hey, just go with this.

Because I'm the woman in the relationship. and I'm taking 75% of the profits. Take it. Now people are going to get mad at me. Yeah. So, you know, we talk about this. And then in five months, Brandon sees that 75% of the profits is $14 million. He's like, wait a second.

We said 50-50. Well, I don't have anything written down to back that up. Before you ever commingle anything, before you ever get started, get it all in writing when everybody's still friends. Yeah, exactly. And then it's not written down. I mean, you're just opening your stuff. so is up to damaging that relationship too, for sure. That's like almost a guarantee.

Somebody will misremember something or somebody will, will mishear something or misunderstand something. And then now you don't have a friend or your grandpa hates you. Yep. Thanksgiving dinner becomes really awkward. Yeah, very awkward. So, all right, I love it. I love it.

So last question, I think it's you, Mindy, right? Okay. Any networking advice for a student looking to get started? So, you know, what you said earlier about offering to help. So, you know, Bigger Pockets obviously is a great place to network. Facebook. I mean, we have a local Kansas City real estate investor Facebook page. I actually met a lot of people through there, believe it or not. You know, the meetup function on Bigger Pockets. You know, I pretty much went to every single event that I could possibly find here. And then the other thing is you don't just go there and listen to the speech. I mean, you actually have to talk to people, right? So put yourself out there. Go on introduce yourself to people. If, you know, if you're brand new at this, so I guess one thing that I would recommend is if you're brand new, read a book first. Right?

So, so like Brandon Turner's book, the book on rental property investing, right? That's a really good book to give you a, you know, a background knowledge on, you know, the entire process, right? So you need to have some level of background knowledge. So they take you seriously. say if you just go there and haven't put any effort into it and say, hey, teach me how to invest in real estate. You know, they're going to give you a lot more respective. You know, I understand the terms.

I understand the strategies. I'm just looking for you as kind of, you know, I want some help to, you know, kind of own in on which, you know, area I want to go into. Cool. Cool. I like it. Awesome. I like it. All right.

So let's get out of here. But before we do, let's get to today's. Famous for. These are four questions we ask every guest every week. And I know you've listened to a lot of these episodes, so you know what's coming. Number one. Ian, what is your favorite real estate related book? Can I give you two?

Because it was kind of a tie. You may. All right. It's going to cost you five bucks, though. Oh, you're going to say my book. It's free, free. And then the millionaire real estate investor by Gary Keller, I'd say for just a general overview of how to invest, I think those are by far my two favorite books.

Well, thank you. Those are also the two best-selling real estate books. in Amazon, they go back and forth between Gary Keller's and mine. They just go back and forth all the time. So if you want to help me pull ahead of Gary Keller, leave me a review in Amazon or rating. If you've bought it on Amazon and you read it, leave me a rating review. We can beat Gary Keller together. Just kidding, Gary, if you're listening to this, I love you.

Your book's awesome. All right. Number two, your favorite. This is your question. Sorry, Mindy. I stole it. You do it. Ian, what is your favorite business book, non-real estate related?

I was really agonizing over this one a little bit. So I read a lot. And Rich Dad, Poor Dad is kind of the obvious answer. And there's for our work week and the one thing. And it's all the books that you hear one after the other on the Bigger Pockus podcast. I've read every single one of them. They're all great. But I want to try and pick one that was a little bit different.

So a book that I recently finished was called Mastery by Robert Green. I'm not sure you've heard of that book. And, you know, just for kind of understanding what makes super high performing people, people take, I thought that was a really awesome book. Cool. I actually, I have the book. It's sitting on my shelf and I've not read it and I've had it for a couple of years now. So, it's really good. Okay. I will, I will get to it. I'll move it up my pile. So I find that I read so much less now that I'd have a baby at home. You know, Rosie really wrecks things, doesn't she? Kids ruin everything. All right, Mindy, next question is yours. What are your hobbies?

Well, I also play guitars. So, you know, I'm pretty big into music and then fitness, working out, stuff like that. So those are my biggest too. I have too many hobbies and not enough time anymore. So, honestly, real estate is really about it recently. But, you know, eventually I'll get back into that stuff. Nice. Are you acoustic or electric?

Both. I'd say more acoustic than electric. Me too. All right. And last question of the day. What do you believe? Well, at least, last question from me, I think Mindy has another. But what sets apart successful real estate investors from those who give up, fail, or never

get started. Well, it's absolutely persistent. So I hear that answer a lot, but I think I'm going to take that a little bit farther. So persistence is really something that you have to develop. So, you know, the habits, the routines and like the Miracle Morning, for example, persistence is something that you have to develop in yourself by creating these, you know, habits and rituals. It's absolutely persistence and, you know, figuring out what you got to do to be able to take the hits because stuff is going to go wrong and you just got to get back up. and keep going after it. So absolutely persistence.

I like that a lot. I just heard a quote the other day, and I liked it so much, I shared it on my Instagram at Beardy Brandon. I, I Instagramed this quote, and it said, if you,

oh, let me get the site. If you're persistent, you'll get it. If you're consistent, you'll keep it. And I really like that way. Right?

That applies to everything. Like, you know, like you could apply that to business, family life, weightlifting, whatever. Like, I was persistent to get my wife.

like I was very persistent to ask her out. I asked her four times before Heather said yes, but it requires consistency to keep it. And I was persistent to buy my properties. It's consistent. You have to be consistent in your actions to keep it. So I'll tell you something I do on that. So I've got this list of books, right, that I've read.

And I will go down and I will actually, you know, let's take you the five key takeaways from each book. I actually go back and, you know, every few months or so, I'll actually review that and ask myself, okay, I learned these things in this book. Am I still actually, you know, following my own advice and taking action on this? I love that. And, you know, for me, that's been kind of a game changer because you've got all this knowledge, but, you know, your favorite business book is always the one that you just finished, right?

And then you forget about the ones that you read a year ago. So, you know, for me, that's really good way for me to keep myself honest about, you know, my doing the things that I said I was going to do and, you know, taking advantage of all the things I've learned. That's fantastic. I need to start doing that. I'm going to start doing that. Every time I read a book, I'm going to like take the front cover or something and write like in the inside cover. That's a really great tip.

Yeah. Thanks. All right. Well. Yeah. Because if you if you read the book and then you don't do anything with the information, it's just the same as if you never read the book. Exactly. Yeah, but you could brag about reading the book, tell your friend.

They'd be like, yeah, I read a lot. I could just say I read every book too. It doesn't make it true. So, please make interesting. There you go. There you go. All right. Mindy, why don't you take us out with the last question? Ian, where can people find out more about you? Well, bigger pockets. So you can find me on bigger pockets, you know, social media, Facebook. And then I also recently started a YouTube channel. So originally that was just kind of aimed at helping my friends out and so they could see what I'm doing here in Kansas City.

So it's KCRI investor. I'm on YouTube. So, yep. All right. And we will link to all that in the show notes, of course, at BiggerPockets.com slash show 237. Wow. We're really at 237 episodes. That's crazy. 237 today. All right. Well, go to BiggerPockets.com slash show 237. If you want to talk more to Ian, you can also go there in the comment section of the show notes. You can ask whatever questions you want there. Ian will be kind enough, I'm sure, to jump in and chat with you guys there as well. So cool. Hey, so in closing, I really want to thank you guys. So Bigger Pockets has made a huge impact on my life. I mean, you know, doing all this stuff is just giving me so much confidence,

so much good information. I share it with everybody. And I just, you know, sincerely appreciate, you know, the content that you guys put out. And I hope I can come shake your hand sometime in person. So ran the next time in Washington, I'll come see you. Do it. Do it. But I really, really appreciate it. Well, thank you. I really appreciate you a lot and your story. It's awesome. That's a lovely thing to hear. Thank you. And I totally agree. Like I was a huge bigger pockets fan before I started working here. Yeah. I used to stock Brandon.

Yes, you did. All right, Ian, thank you so much for being part of our community and helping out and chiming in and being on the podcast and all that good stuff that you do. So keep it up and we'll see you around. Awesome. Thanks, guys. All right. Thank you.

All righty. And that was our interview with Ian Reeves. Man, that was awesome. I love to hear people who like, don't just learn, but they go and take action on the things they're learning. He listened to the podcast, took action. He reads books, takes action. I mean, that's what it's all about.

I love that. Yes. Ian is such an inspirational investor because he doesn't just sit there and collect. He doesn't have analysis paralysis by any stretch of the imagination. We're recording while he only owns 65 units. But now, as of today, he should have 74 whole units. And that's a few more than you, isn't it, Brandon? You know, just rub that in.

Just keep rubbing that in. I don't want to call you a slacker, but. I'm working on it. Everybody has a mobile home park that they know of. I'm trying to buy a mobile home park. So hit me up. I just need more deals. I need something affordable in Longmont.

So I know that's in the Denver area. I actually am not all that particular. Also, Cheyenne, Wyoming. I guess I could do something up there too. It's not that far for me. Yeah, the next time you're in Denver. We'll sign a mobile home park in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Oh, that'd be awesome.

We're going to do it. That'd be awesome. All right. You'd be a deal. All right. And I get 75%. Okay, because you're the girl. All right, thank you guys for listening to the podcast again.

You guys have been great. If you've not yet left us a rating review in iTunes, please do so because that makes me feel good. And if you've not left, if you've not yet left a rating review in Amazon for any books you've ever bought from bigger pockets, please do so. The book on managing rental property just crossed 100 reviews, which made my wife's day because she wrote most of that book. So anyway, check it out. Thank you for letting me step in for Josh. he should be back in a couple of weeks after he's done not hosting. Galavanting the country.

Galivanting around. All right. Well, Mindy, you've been an awesome host today. I'll see you again soon. Take care everyone. I'll see you later. Bye. Bye.

For the Bigger Pockets podcast, this is Mindy Jensen and Brandon Turner. Signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. Simplifying Real Estate for Investors large and small. If you're here looking. to learn about real estate investing without all the height, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online.

It's time for it's time for. It's time for. The random five. All right, now it's time for the random five. Of course, the hidden segment of the show, which we ask our guests some random questions about themselves to get them a little bit better. Number one, what type of music? Do you listen to? Oh, Josh is going to kill me. Country. Yes.

I do like country. I do, I do too. No, let me ask you. Are you into, like, the boring old country? Are you into the awesome, like, bro country? You know, like, all the really cheesy good bro country. I actually really like blues, too. So I'd say, like, the older bluesy type.

Okay. I'm into the cheesiest, worst. Bro country, you can imagine. If it's not talking about trucks and tires, I don't listen. Yeah, I would not have predicted. It's totally true. All right. Mindy.

What job could your company not pay you enough to do? I really, really dislike paying bills and paperwork. So, like, as soon as I can get somebody to do that for me, so I never end mail, like, just going through mail, absolutely hate it. It drives me crazy. Yeah, I don't disagree with that at all. Oh, you cannot. I actually hired an assistant.

She goes through all of my mail. So if you send me mail, I probably won't see it. So she goes through everything and she takes care of all. It's the best thing. I did that after reading the 80, 20 sales in marketing by Perry Marshall. He was on the podcast while back. Yeah, after that, I went hired an assistant because I was like, I should be doing a certain number of things that I'm really good at.

And I'm not really good at dishes, mowing my lawn or checking my mail. So now I have somebody to do with those three things. On that note, on that note, we hired a housekeeper about three weeks ago because I've just, I've got all this stuff going on outside of work and man, that was, my girlfriend's happy. Perfect. Yeah, definitely, absolutely. There you go. I like it.

I'm contemplating that, but it butts heads with my frugality side. So, it did for me as well. Yeah, the question is, can you earn more? Yep. Can you earn more by having somebody do those little tasks? maybe, maybe not. For some people, maybe not. But for me, I said, yes, I can earn more by doing a few things that I make money from doing them extremely well.

Or how many properties do you need to pay for? Yeah, exactly. There you go. Yeah, that's true. All right. Do you read books in print or electronic format? You know, I definitely like, as much as I love to sit down and read a book, it's really hard to find the time to do that. But listening on Audible, I mean, I can do that anywhere at the gym and the car.

So definitely I listen to more than I actually read for sure. Cool. Who would you want in your lifeboat? In my life boat. One person? One person. I definitely have to say my girlfriend. Probably a good choice.

Is she sitting there next to you? Definitely good choice. Yes. All right. My last question of the round of five. What's the number one thing you want to do on your bucket list? What's something huge you want to accomplish in life or do or go or be? So this is absolutely going to happen, but I definitely want to take, you know, some significant time off and do a tour of Europe and actually do some traveling.

So, you know, I've done a little bit of traveling, but nothing major. So, you know, that's definitely bucket list. It's going to happen here soon, hopefully. Cool. Yep. Nice. Nice. Any particular place in Europe do you want to go?

I really want to go to like Greece, Italy, you know, areas like that. Yep. Cool. Perfect. I've never been any of those places. I'm going to Scotland on the August 4th for the first time. Nice. So I actually have been there.

Yeah. Awesome. I've traveled all around the United States, but haven't been much outside of it. Yeah. All right, Mindy, last question is yours. Is the last question of mine? I thought we just did five. No, that was four.

Wasn't it? One, two, three, four. I got. Oh, wait, was that five? Yeah, that was five. Oh, wait, no, that's right. That's right. It's now the random.

That's why. There's a six. I'm supposed to end with you. So you get to ask more questions. Oh, okay. Random six. I. Random six.

What is your favorite quote? Oh, man. That's a tough one. You put me on the spot here. Yeah, we are. It's probably a Jim Rohn quote, but I can't think of the one right now. But I'm just going to say anything by Jim Rohn. I'm the same way.

Anything Jim Rohn said is probably an amazing quote. Yeah, it's genius. That guy is fantastic. Cool. All right. Ian, thanks so much. We'll see you around. All right. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks for, thanks, Ian. Yeah. Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle, active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress?

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