BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 250: Grant Cardone on Multifamily Investing and Why You Should Never Buy a House!

Episode Date: October 26, 2017

It’s the episode you’ve been waiting for: Grant Cardone is BACK on the BiggerPockets Podcast! Last time Grant was on the show he owned $350 million in real estate. Now, with over $600 million, he’s just warming up! From the moment this show begins, it’s a high-powered, fast-moving, high-level (and hilarious) explosion of information and entertainment aimed to motivate, educate, and inspire you to greatness. You’ll hear why Grant thinks buying a house is one of the stupidest decisions one can make, his plan for avoiding the next real estate decline, and why he says NOW is the best time to invest in real estate—plus a lot more.   In This Episode We Cover: What’s new with Grant A discussion on the next real estate crash? How to make money in today’s market Why a low cap rate matters How many offers he makes How to get going on big deals Why you need to go big The mistakes amateurs are making Various ways to learn more about properties without an agent Why you should partner with someone with money Areas to invest Why you shouldn’t buy a house The power of mobility And SO much more! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Bookstore BiggerPockets Podcast 108: Building a $350 Million Real Estate Empire Using the 10X Rule with Grant Cardone BiggerPockets Events LoopNet HFF ARA CBRE Cushman & Wakefield BiggerPockets Podcast 246: Surviving the Coming Crash, Earning 20% Returns, and Buying Mobile Home Parks with Kevin Bupp Books Mentioned in this Show The 4-Hour Workweek by Timothy Ferriss The Richest Man in Babylon by George S. Clason Tweetable Topics “In good times, everybody’s a showoff.” (Tweet This!) “The professional investor has to be willing to move to other markets.” (Tweet This!) “Not being known at all is going to hurt you.” (Tweet This!) “You don’t need a home.” (Tweet This!) “Houses were for the banks and weren’t for the people.” (Tweet This!) Connect with Grant Cardone Capital Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 250. The single door is a mistake. No one in America should own a home. Stupid. It's the dumbest. It's as dumb as putting money in a retirement account. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small.

If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, Without all the height, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on, everybody? This is Josh Dorkin. Host to the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, Mr. Brandon Turner.

Holy smokes, man, 250 shows later. You know what's shocking about 250 is after after 250 shows, it still took us two tries to that intro right there. Just for you to say, this is the bigger pocket. Yeah, you screwed it up on episode 250. I did screw it up.

And I had to, we had to re-record that. Anyway, you guys all heard the clean version, but, yes, there was a, there was some swearing by me.

There was a little bit of a frustration. But you got it. You know, you used your big words and you figured it out. I'm proud of you. I feel good. I'm big enough. I'm strong enough.

And gosh, darn it, people like me. People like you. Speaking of people liking things, we decided for show 250, that we would bring back the guy that you guys like so much. And no, we're not talking about Scott Trench, who up until now has our most popular show.

That's true. We're talking about the guy who had the most popular show until Scott Trench overtook him. But now I have a feeling that might change again. But, you know, let's create some competition here amongst these gentlemen. We're bringing back Grant Cardone. Grant Cardone. If you have not listened to yet the other episode that we have with Grant Cardone, If you want to know more about Grant's history, what Grant did that, you know, starting from age 25.

He talks about a little bit today at the end of this show. But if you want to know, like, the entire story, one of our best interviews, it's show number 108. Go back and listen to BiggerPockets.com slash show 108. You don't have to necessarily listen to this one first or that one first. It doesn't really matter. I would listen to that one. But either way, both are fantastic. Today's show we dive really deep into like multifamily.

What did we dive into? A lot of stuff. A lot of stuff. off that. Like, the multifamily, like, thinking bigger, like, you know, he makes fun of a lot of things that we do. I mean, especially, like, a lot of our listeners do when I do, right? Like, owning a single family house.

Like, he tears into us. This show will definitively be one of our most controversial shows. I think there is a lot of controversy that Grant speaks of. But, you know, the interesting thing is when you stop and think about what's behind the words, He's got a pretty solid point behind almost everything that he says. I think there's a cogent argument behind all his arguments, and it makes sense. And really, we dive deep on just society. We dive deep on who we as Americans are and what we really think about as being successful.

It's interesting. I love hearing different perspectives. This is definitely a different one. Now, on top of that, I mean, we dive deep on the multifamilies. We dive deep on just how to think about real estate, how to think about buying property, what kinds of property. I think for me, one of the most interesting points of the show was what kind of property is the most resilient? What kind of property is the most recession proof? You know, what can you get into where if the market tanks and crashes 40 percent?

And it will. The market will tank, right? Real estate goes in cycles. when it happens, what kind of property do you need to be in to protect yourself the most? And that's the kind of stuff that we dive into. And it's great. Yeah, it was a super powerful show. But before we get to it, now we've talked it up a lot, let's get to today's quick.

Quick tip. Today's quick tip is one that we talk about from time to time, but I want to bring it up again. And that is we have an event system at BiggerPockets. If you go to BiggerPockets.com slash events, you can see what local events are happening in your area. Yeah, I bring that up because I'm actually speaking at a local Bigger Pockets gathering of BiggerPockets people tomorrow night. And so I thought it would be good to mention it here. So, yeah, if you are not attending those local events, you should be doing that. They're really fun.

They're good for finding partners, lenders, mentors, people to learn from people that you can teach. Yeah, fantastic. And if there is not one in your area, don't think that's a negative thing. That's a great thing because it means you can start something. So BiggerPockets.com slash events, check it out. And on top of what Brandon said, just starting a, starting a lot of, meetup of real estate investors if there's not one in your area or if there is puts you in the middle right it makes you the hub of of the community you know you draw another real estate investors

and you're the guy throwing the event what what tends to happen and you know we know a lot of guys on BP who are creating events and they're doing it a lot of them for this very reason is they get the first look at deals they get the first look at what's happening and what's out there so it's a great idea something we definitely encourage go to bigger pocket com slash events and check it out. Guys, this is show 250 of the Bigger Pockets podcast. So I've got a couple asks, I can't speak, asks of you first. I'm glad you clarified that.

Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. My first ask, I know we do this from time to time, but I would like to ask you guys to go on iTunes, go on wherever you listen to this, Stitch or SoundCloud, however you're listen to it. And please, leave us a rating and review. Those ratings and reviews really, really help us. They help get the word out about the podcast. And they're a way of saying

thanks back to Bigger Pockets for, you know, hopefully a valuable show, hopefully. You know, I know I have a co-host that is somewhat offensive, but, you know, I was offensive today. I don't know. I don't know. My second ask is go find your favorite show. 250 shows. You got it. have a favorite show. Jump on Twitter, jump on Facebook, and let us know what your favorite show was. We want to hear from you. We want to hear what your favorite show is. We know what the most popular shows are, but we want to just, we want to hear from you guys, what you guys love. So do us a favor. Jump on social media. Hashtag Bigger Pockets. And let us know what your favorite Bigger Pockets podcast is. We don't care what medium you use. Just hashtag us and let us know what your

favorite show was and why. Otherwise, those are my two asks. Thank you so much for listening. We're really, we, I don't know, it's a humbling experience to have so many people who have, you know, learn so much and done so much as a result of the show over the almost, what are we, five years now, almost five, or is it almost four? Almost five years. Almost five years of doing the show. So thank you guys for listening.

Thank you for putting up with my nonsense and Brandon's, you know, beer. Good looks and charm. Yeah, yeah. Baby screaming in the background. Maybe screaming in the background. Yeah. Here's why savvy real estate investors are obsessed with bonus depreciation.

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and earning your trust while they do it. And that comes down to three numbers, occupancy, delinquency, and net promoter score. If those numbers slip, your income slips and your trust slips too. And most PMs don't hold themselves to performance standards. They focus on activity, not outcomes. Mind is different. They obsess over the metrics that actually grow your cash flow. Go to mind.com slash show me to see how mine performs and get a month of management for free. Because if you're going to hire a property manager, hire one that manages your investment like an investment. Like I said, show 250. Check out the show notes at biggerpockets.com slash show 250. You can leave comments, leave feedback, chat with other investors about today's show. and maybe Grant will even jump in.

I'm not sure that he will, but maybe he will. But today's guest, as we said, Grant Cardone. And Grant talks just about a lot of really deep stuff, as we've already mentioned. I don't need to rehash it. So I'm going to just bring him in. And he's back. Grant Cardone. Welcome to the show, man.

It's good to have you back. Man, always good to be with you guys, you ballers. Yeah, buddy. I think it's the only time of my life I've been called a baller, but I'll take it. I'll take it. I like it. How you been? Dude, dude, I've been good.

You know, just so you, you, we're buying real estate. We're out there, you know, having to kind of redefine what the market is. How do you look at it? You know, cap rates continue to contract. And I've been predicting this. Interest rates have continued to flatten out. I've predicted that for the last three or four years. There's a lot of things I've been wrong about, but a few things I've been right about.

The affordable income thing, that $800 to $1,100 month rent's not going away. They're not building it. There's a shortage. Nobody's talking about this, this mass shortage that is going to take this property that you used to build a buy for 60,000 units. It's now probably 105 to 110. Dude, I'm telling you, it's going to 200. It's 200 here in Denver. It's you can't even get 200 in Denver. It's like 250, 300 in Denver.

It's ridiculous. Like B product, B product 20 years old? You can't, I mean, you can't get anything for under 2503. Denver is just stupid right now. Yeah. Yeah. But it's going to happen all over the country. Because there are more buyers than there is product.

And that is called supply and demand. That is not about cap rates. This has never happened in the history of our country. People are not moving to homes. The millennials not buying the 30-year mortgage. They don't have the down payment and they don't have the interest. They don't have the interest in owning a home for 30 years. So the renter thing is becoming a thing, a real thing.

And there's places to make money, even in the Denver market, Seattle, Miami, even in the overpriced markets, but you've got to know what you're doing right now. Well, so I was going to ask that. I mean, I think you kind of answered it, but the market's crazy hot right now. So I should sit on the couch and watch TV for the next few years. Is that what you're saying? You're saying we should still get in.

Housewives. You watch the housewives, right? Yeah, you know. Yeah, look, if you sit on the couch, this is what everybody says. Why don't I just wait for the crash? That's what everyone says. I hear it all the time. You won't be able to buy any product in the future, okay?

Nobody will know you. You can't just show up for a crash and start buying stuff. That's not how multifamily works. Multi-family, particularly the kind of stuff I'm doing. I'm not talking about two-and-four unit deals like you guys do, okay? Sure. Oh, wait, was that supposed to be a dig? Was that a dig-out?

Because for those are you people who can't actually see the video, Cardone here is like knee-slapping himself. Ridiculous. I'll have you know. I'm doing my first 1031 exchange right now looking for something. you know, medium size, but, you know, I'm getting up there to Cardone level. I'm working on that. Because the point is, and that joke is for everybody that's ever started in real estate, you start with two, then you go to four, you go to eight, you're probably flipping homes in the beginning.

Every flipper that I've ever met, what do you guys call it? There's wholesaling. That's what people call it. Or a hack. House hacking. House hacking. Yep. Everybody that house hacks or flips, they're all looking to end up where I am.

Yep. Oh, yeah. 200 units, 300 units. You want to scale. I mean, it's where I started, right? My first deal was one house, one door. I bought the one door. I rented it.

I was making $200 a month positive until they moved out. When they moved out, and then I realized, oh, my God, I got to make the payment here. I didn't say, oh, real estate sucks. This is too much trouble. You can't make money. I just looked at it and said, what did I do wrong here? What I did wrong was I was dependent upon one client, one customer. This is true about any business.

For any business to be great, you need lots of customers. Walmart, Google, Amazon, you need a lot of customers. For real estate to work, you need a lot of doors. At the end of the day, when the market comes down, by the way, it will, where you don't want to be, and this goes back to the crash, will there be a crash. There will be a crash. It will be at the high end of the market, though. It's going to be in all that $4,000 a month, $4,200 a month stuff that they're building in Denver and Seattle. You don't want to be the first one in there, okay? Because what happens when a crash happens? It doesn't actually destroy money. Money just becomes uncertain and it moves less rapidly, right? People have less confidence. Sure. So the guy, let's say you guys are, you know, me and Ryan are renting a place for $4,200

bucks a month because I can't afford the $4,200, but I want to show off. And good times everybody's a show off. Yep. You know, you people are buying $200 and $300 sneakers right now. You know, they're leasing cars they can't afford. When times get tough, what do they do? They quit buying the sneakers. They quit showing off the cars.

And they call their buddy up and they say, hey, hey, Josh, can you move in with me? Yes. Let's split the rent, dude. Do we get to spoon? Of course we did, but the question is who's behind? Who's Big Spoon? Yeah. And maybe we flip, right?

Maybe we both experiment. that. So what happens is we live together for three or four months and then we find out, you know, that's no fun. You know, so what do I do now? The market, the economy hadn't gotten better. And so me and you both go our separate ways and we go rent something for $1,200 a month each. Yep. Makes sense. Now, now, now the point of that story is where, when the market crashes, where are people going to? They're going to $800 to $1,200, right? But you're not. going below that. You're not going to go to Section 8. You don't want to be at the bottom and you don't want to be at the top. You want to be in the middle. Look how Walmart made a fortune. They made it

on the middle, right? They didn't make it just on poor people. The whole middle class goes to Walmart. Walmart's not for poor people, right? So you want to be in that ban. Whatever city you're in, you need to find out what that affordable ban is without becoming government subsidized. If you scale that out, you're going to be fine in a crash. So what do you, you know, that all makes a lot of sense and and and I love it but what if that middle band is the stretch right like in Denver that middle band being $300,000 that middle band you can't find the average guy can't find deals right I mean you got to go you got to go and you've got to get off market deals well there's there's you know there's off market deals to be found in any market but

you know that's getting harder and harder right I mean there's more and more investors There's less and less deals to be had. So how do people make money in this market? This is no longer an amateur's game. This is a pros game. Tremendous amount of research. So what we did here in the last four or five years, maybe three years, really, we've just increased the number of deals we're having to look at.

So rather than looking at 30 deals to buy one or two, I'm extremely selective. I'm very, very disciplined. When I go into a deal, I'm going to close the deal. So we do a lot of research before I do a P.S. a purchase and sale agreement, before I do the due diligence, I know whether or not I'm buying that deal. So like I'm doing a big deal in Houston right now. I'm doing actually three big deals in Houston right now. Regardless of what I find, I'm going to close these deals. I'm

that far into the deals going in before the PSA and before the due diligence that I know I'm going to buy those deals. These are not cheap deals either. Yeah. Okay, but two of the three are off market. So the point is you've got to scale out the number. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but you've got to scale out the number of deals you're looking at. If you're going to play lazy investor and look at one or two deals and think you're going to buy one, you're done. There's no way. There's no way you're going to buy the right deal. So just like there's a shortage of deals, you've got to expand the funnel of deals you're looking at.

I learned this in my sales career. Increase the funnel, right, go wide so that you can get the right customers through the door. That also means that you have to leave Denver at some point. Right. The advantage I have that you don't have and that you get from. scale and partnering is that I live in Miami. I can only buy so much product here before everybody's so greedy. They're like, here comes Grant. Let's rip Grant's head off. He'll pay too much. So what I have to do is I got to be willing. The professional investor has to be

willing to move to other markets. And most people, if you're playing a small game, you can't do that because you can't be there to manage it. Right. You know, I love that you brought up the funnel because I tell us to people all the time. It's like the one thing I wish somebody would have explained to me when I was 21, 22 years old is that real estate is a sales funnel. I mean, it's the same thing as a guy who's selling cars. How many people walk on the lot? How many, you know, can you get them to test drive? How many of them are going to buy your car? I mean, you know more about that than I do, but like, like, everything's a funnel. And so as soon as I began thinking of real estate that way, like, it got so much less emotional. And so that's easy that to have people all the time.

Like, it's a number's game in a large way. You get leads coming in. You analyze them. You make an offer, and some of those offers are going to get accepted. Some are going to rejected, but that's all right. You know, failure is not a bad thing when you're making offers. I mean, so, like, I don't know why that's not maybe taught more loudly. Like, I feel like everyone treats real estate like a hobby. Because it's, it's like network marketing. You know, you pay 40 bucks and everybody think you're going to get rich. You made a $40 investment. You walk away. You're a car salesman. It costs you nothing. You don't even have to get a license. I mean, you've got to pay more money to get a bartender license than you do some of these careers we get

into. You pitch people with no money down. You're going to buy something with no money down and you're going to make money, that's who ends up getting spanked. Yep. Cannot do a deal in today's marketplace with a little bit of work? I mean, these are long-term commitments. They should be viewed like that unless you're doing the flip thing. Yeah. So you had mentioned before, you know before you even start to really diving deep on these

properties what you're going to end up getting. So how are you vetting these things beforehand? Obviously, you've got to have some set of filters, some set of criteria. that allows you to not waste too much time, but at the same time, make some progress. So where's that line and how are you doing that? I just found 23 units in Denver for $3.2 million. So there are some $100,000 product out there.

This looks like a seed property to me. But anyway, just... You pull that up on LoopNet? Say again. Is that you pull that up on LoopNet? Yeah, I pulled that up on LoopNet. But I'd go look at HFF and ARA and CBRE and Cushman, Wakefield. I mean, that's where those real deals are. It's with those brokers. Typically,

they don't even have them on their websites. You've got to get on the phone with those guys. So to answer your question about, how do I know about a deal first? If you're looking at 100 deals, and this goes back to the funnel, okay, the thing people want to do is they want to read a book. They want to read a book and think that they know real estate. And that's great, dude. You guys should read books. Everybody should read books. Books are great, right? Because they build some, a platform of data to operate from a knowingness. But what a book doesn't do is it doesn't give you a feeling of a piece of property. Yeah. So like we go to Houston. We were in Houston, what, three weeks ago? Three weeks ago. We were there three days. The only reason we were there

was to look at real estate. This was before the Harvey. So this had to be like eight weeks ago, the first trip. We go in. I targeted property, like I do a lot of studies on Google Maps. Like where is that market? I know Houston because I live there. So I had some idea in a big city like that location is key. Anywhere there's a flat market, if it's a flat market, your location becomes more and more important. As opposed to Seattle or Denver that's crunched by city and mountains, right? Or San Diego that's crunched by mountains and ocean.

So the flat or something is, the more research you have to do. So I had to confine my research to a location. So when I went in there, we literally looked at probably 6,000. units in a day and a half. Wow. Stopped in that address, drove the property. The reason I did that, okay, probably looked at 20 different properties, 300 units each, is because I knew 19 of them, actually 20 of them were wrong for me.

I didn't get this vibe. I don't get this feeling when I drive up in the neighborhood. We actually wandered on a product. I'm like, dude, what is that right there? Is that on our list? No, it wasn't on our list. Second Baptist Church across the street. What a whole foods market right next to me.

The, they had sold a portion. It's like, dude, I love this. I had this feeling. Yeah. See, if I'm going to get this feeling, and by the way, you never look at real estate when you're hungry. Okay, it's kind of, you want to be full. So your sensory, your perceptions are working. Because once you look at enough stuff you don't want, when you see that right girl, that right guy, that right property,

you're going to get this ding. Yep. You know, now if you've only looked at six units your entire career, you're not going to get the dean yet. You've got to look at a lot of products. So, so that thing passed that first criteria,

which is I felt something. Yeah. Yeah, so look, it's got to have a feeling because if it doesn't have a feeling, I mean, they tell you commercial real estate's not emotional.

Look, trust me, it's all emotional, okay? I'm doing, this deal in Houston, I'm talking about, it's $86 million.

The guy, the guy, the, fund that owns it is top five in the country. Trust me, everybody's emotional. Yeah. Okay, I know the more people say they're not emotional and it's just about the numbers, the more emotional they are.

So, and by the way, you want a piece of dirt that has some emotional. When I got there, it felt to me like it was Central Park, New York, in Houston, Texas. Oh, that's great. Okay, 15 acres, two-acre park. Where can you go get a two-acre park inside an apartment? building in Houston, Texas. Now, this is probably not everybody's real estate play. If you're starting the game and you can't do, your first deal can't be $86 million, but let's say it could be a million dollars, you still want to find that feeling, that sense of that park, the amenities,

something, the location, something that feels good about it, because if it doesn't feel good to you, it's not going to feel good to the next guy when you try to exit, and it's not going to feel good to the tenants when they roll up on it. Yeah, that's great. And I love the point you made about, you know, you know, there goes my little girl talking. Like, I love the point you make out. Most people want to read a book. Most people want to talk about real estate and think that they're investing in real estate, right?

But there's something different when you actually get out there and start looking at properties. I mean, even if somebody is starting in their only want to buy a single family or whatever, like just getting out there to look at properties, I feel like changes it in a big way. So yeah, I would encourage everyone listening right now. Like, if you're just one of the people who talks about it all the time, you know, put it on your calendar right now. Somebody said a few weeks ago on the podcast. I can tell you're a real estate investor or not by looking at your calendar.

And I really like that a lot. Like, are you doing it or are you just talking about it? It's very different. Well, it's the same as like a real estate agent. I mean, when you're an agent, you got to know every house. You got to know all the inventory in your market. As an investor, it's the same thing. You, if you're doing a house hack, you're looking for a duplex, triplex, or quad in a neighborhood,

every duplex, triplex and quad in that neighborhood, you need to walk. You need to go see. You need to visit. As Grant said, you've got to get that feeling and vibe to see. if that energy is the energy you want on top of the numbers, right? Same thing goes for multi. You made a comment about the real estate agents. 99% of all real estate agents don't even know the inventory in the market.

Right. I can move to a city I've never been to. I'll know more about the housing product in that city than the real estate agents that have lived there for 30 years. And everybody can have access to that. You don't actually have to leave your home today, but you need to go do a Google search. You need to do it from the air.

You need to do aerial searches. you need to know every property in your market. It's so easy to do now. You need to know apartment reviews. You need to call the property. Like I did a phone call to a property yesterday to find out how they're answering the phones. Because if they're not answering the phones,

I had to call this property seven times to get an answer. I'm under contract on this deal right now. Seven times, and they didn't answer. When they did answer, Lucy, couldn't tell me what kind of credit I needed, couldn't tell me about my income requirements. I asked her if I could have a dog. She said yes.

Then she said, what kind? I said a Rottweiler. She said, no, then you can't have that dog. It's aggressive. I'm like, you guys discriminate? Okay, can I have a girlfriend? I asked you. I said, Lucy, can I have a girlfriend?

She's like, yeah? What kind of question is that? I said, the girlfriend's more aggressive than my dog. The point is inspired. They were rude. They were unprofessional, no customer service, no follow-up, no name, no phone number from me. So what does that mean? That means I could do a better job if I love the property,

If it feels good, I could do a better job of lease than there. Yeah. I like that a lot because I've done the same thing too. I call up places I want to buy and I want to talk to the landlord, the manager, whoever it is dealing with it and just, you know, ask the questions like a tenant would. Yeah, you find out a ton of stuff. And like you said, like that can be a huge, I guess indication that there's a great deal there. So I love that.

Yeah. Yeah. But again, if you don't love it, if it doesn't have a sense of feeling, you don't need to do, I don't need to do a due diligence. Like we're in Houston today doing what is it going to cost us on that due diligence? 25 bucks a door. So fit 507 doors. It's going to cost me $25. I've already spent $25,000. I've already spent $25,000. So I'm going to be in that deal. Without my time, don't count my time. I'll be in that deal 25 times. I'll be in that deal for

$40,000. Do you better know you want this deal? I'm not looking for reasons not to buy the deal now. At this point, I'm looking for reasons to do the deal. Yeah, that's great. Right. So absolutely, absolutely. You talked about low cap rate. And you talked about how it's irrelevant. You know, there's about 100,000 other commercial real estate investors out there who are saying you're full of shit. So can you explain why that doesn't matter? I mean, like, what's your theory on it? And how is it that you can go and buy a two cap or a three cap or a five cap and get away with it?

There's a big difference between a two cap and a five cap. Fair enough. But, you know. Down to twos. All right. I don't want to besmirch you or anything with that two cap. I apologize. But look, I'm looking at fours.

Yeah. When I wouldn't have looked at fours four or five years ago. Yeah. So now, now how do I make sense of that? Okay. Number one, you know, we created a fun. There are certain markets. I've mentioned one of them already where I could actually buy a four cap today because the

vacancy due to the supply, the supply was increased at such a drastic rate in such a short period of time that it over supplied the market. And then concessions hit, concessions go up with build and it put pressure in the middle. So occupancy went from like 94, 95 and some of this stuff that I'm looking at down to 83. So I lost 11 points. When that supply burned, off and the concessions go away, boom, I go back to a six cap. Yep. But again, you guys got to look at time. I'm being paid 4%.

I'm being, my investors are being paid 4%. My brother, my sister, they're being paid 4 and 5 and 6% for us to wait for the supply to blow off. The concessions go away. I pick up 11 points on my returns on great properties that I could not have bought 5 or 6 years ago. Yeah. So you've got to adjust. It's like the market. It's like when you're underwriting something, you have to be, or a lawyer is looking at the

due diligence package or the PSA, your lawyer's got to be market relevant. You know, there's three markets. There's a buyer's market, a seller's market, and something in between. I got to know which one I'm in. If I'm selling, hey, I'm in a seller's market. You want to counter me? Screw you. Come back later.

Okay? I'm in a buyer's market. I can't operate like that. I want to sell something. So you've got to know where you're at in the process, what the market is for a cap rate or for what your lawyer can ask for or what the PSA should look like or how long your due diligence is. We're doing deals with 14 days due diligence to get deals.

You know, I'm going $100,000 hard on some deals on the first day of the PSA to get a deal. And I'm still losing most of my deals. Yeah. So do you have a average on like the number of offers you make? You know, what percentage you get accepted? Do you have any, like, ballpark that you, you know? We look at 100 deals to buy one. We're getting probably six to seven deals under contract to get one.

Okay. So I'm losing four out of five deals. Like, like, I'm so, I'm so butt hurt right now, dude. I'm like, I am like, it's terrible, dude. It's like, I'm losing deals over. I lost a $100 million deal over $500. Wow. Now, let me just tell you this, okay.

I did not lose it. it because of the money. I know now, now that I've recovered from the fist and I got. Excuse me, you can bleep that out. I now know. The broker had already picked the other dude. It had nothing to do with money. He favored another buyer. It was rig going in. And again, why you've got to have a full pipeline. Yeah. So let me, I was going to ask really quick. I'm going to go ahead. Go ahead. You're in charge. Whatever. Pull the boss card. How do you become the guy? You know, that's what's going to happen here. How do you become the guy that's favored?

I mean, you know, you can't know and get in with every one of these brokers on the sell side. So what do you need to do? You got to have relationships, man. You got to be willing to. And again, it's, you know, the deals I'm talking about are big deals, right? Yeah. So how do you do big deals? First of all, how do you get in with these people?

You need, people need to scale faster. So like one of the mistakes I made in my career was I went too little in the beginning. I went with my budget. I based my decisions off of how much money I had. This is a mistake in real estate. People are buying based on how much money they have rather than how much money they can get. Okay. You want big deals right now.

You do not want little deals. All the little deal guys in Florida are going to get spanked here in about 30 days with insurance increases. Oh, yeah. Okay. Even if you didn't have losses, if you own four units or eight units anywhere in the state of Florida, next month you could see your premiums go from 500 a unit to 1,000 or 1,200 bucks a unit. Your entire cash flow, positive cash flow could get wiped out in 30 days. Why? Because you don't have an umbrella covering enough property.

And I know on the first show that you and I did together, you guys did with me, I got in a bunch of shit from a bunch of your audience saying, oh, Grant, he's such a big freaking. and he's always talking about the big deals. You guys need to go big. It's the only place where you get enough protection. Now, if you can't go big by yourself, partner with somebody. Partner with somebody so you can scale out things like legal, looking at deals, access to people.

Like if either one of you guys could get on the phone today and say, look, we have $600 million for the holdings in-house right now, under management, would more people take your phone calls? Yeah, of course. We're preferred bars with Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and two life companies. Okay? We have $100 million in cash and another $50 million in exchanges right now that needs to go to work. It has to be placed by the end of the year.

More people would take your phone calls. Yeah, absolutely. You can't call the guy at Cushman or CBRE or HF or ARA. You can't call these guys and say, hey, man, what's you got? Tell me they're not going to even take your phone call. They're like Lucy. it's the leasing agent. Right?

So get access to extraordinary deals, big giant deals, and take advantage of this affordable problem that we have that I started talking about early in the interview. Well, let me. I'll actually really quick, Brandon. Go ahead, go ahead. This is a yes-name question, and then I know you got your answer.

So last time you did the show, you had 350 million in holdings. You're now up to 600. Is that correct? That's right. All right. Congratulations. Mazel tough.

Thank you, man. That's cool. So I had a couple questions. What's your new year's called? Russia Shana. Yeah, I was at a Russia Shana party the other day. There you go. It's fun, man. Join the tribe.

Yeah. It was awesome. And I asked the dude, I said, bro, let me ask you. This Rosh Hashanah, this new year thing, you know. Did y'all change your physical calendar, your financial calendar? Oh, no, we never changed that. No, we just, you know, we drink some wine and have some good food and have good company. So that sounds like a good time.

Yeah. All right. All right. All right. So my question was. have you found it more difficult or less difficult because of your stature? And what I mean by that is the fact that people know you. You're an author.

You've written New York Times bestselling books and all that good stuff, right? People know, has that made it easier or harder for you? It's helped me and hurt me. So I'll tell you there's a group in Tampa. I should tell them who it is. They hate that unknown. They don't know what to do with me. It confuses them that I'm writing books and doing.

podcast and doing YouTube and and it confuses them. Now there's a guy on the West Coast. Why do they matter by the way? Why is that even like a part of the equation? I don't know. They don't like my attitude. They think I'm too cocky, too cocksure to nobody likes Brandon. It doesn't stop him from doing nothing.

Exactly. You know, they think it's protected space. Don't tell anybody. Keep it quiet. I don't want anybody know about our listings. It's like a secret club or something like, dude, what are you guys in the? What's it called? No, the Bush thing.

I like how Grant has people thinking for him in the background, which is great. You know you're a baller when you have people thinking for you. So they're in some secret society. You know, dude, you guys make, you make, come on, a half a point on a freaking $86 million deal. You're going to make $300,000 on a, what's so protected about this? But they're scared. They're running scared. Again, why?

Because there's so little supply for these guys to sell. And so many guys trying to get their little fee on the deal. So now there's another group that I was trying to buy a deal with. The guy had never heard of me before. He's top five multifamily owners in the world, all groups, including public entities. He says, man, I've never heard of you. Guys, completely very structured. We're in a buyer's interview.

They're interviewing me as a buyer on a deal. This guy's very professional, dot and I's crossing T's going over the due diligence. He's like, hey, before we get started, man, my son knows you. My son is a huge fan of yours. Any chance you could send a book to him. Okay. Now, the old man doesn't know me. But the kid does.

The kid told him he saw me on the agenda. So anyway, in that situation, it helped me. But I had to nurture the relationship. I got to go there and visit him. It certainly helps to have a plane and be able to get in front of people. That does help. You know, I brought him to a. speech I was doing for the vets.

I said, hey, come as my guest. He's watching me speak to 4,000 vets and active military. Nice. And all that helps, right? So people see me giving back to Irma and Harvey. You know, they saw me flying to Houston with 27,000 products on my plane. That helps me with brokers. So, but some guys that's going to hurt you with, too.

But not being known at all is always going to hurt you. Yeah. Yeah. So how do we translate that to people who are listening right now that aren't, you know, don't have a lot of following on social media or whatever. Should they worry about that at all? What's your thoughts on that? I wouldn't worry about it.

I wouldn't worry about it. I buy real estate. The only thing you need to worry about is seeing property. Yeah. Cool. You know, what do the non-pros do? You said we're in a pro market now. We're at a time where things are tough and you've got to know what the hell you're doing.

Well, there's a lot of people who are just, you know, hey, I'm learning how to do this. Do I sit and wait for a year, two years, five years? You said before, no, you got to go and do big. deals, but like, you know, I'm on my second deal. I don't want to jump from, you know, a $60,000 house or $350,000 duplex, you know, to a million dollar multifamily commercial property or $5 million property. I don't think I'm ready yet for that. So how do those guys deal with markets like the one we're dealing with, you know, I mean, obviously markets are local, but how do you deal with those folks? Well, this is a great question, and we should do an article on this. Like, what do the

amateurs, what are the mistakes that people are making? Number one, waiting on the sidelines is a mistake. You're not going to, I have bought deals in the, you guys probably don't remember the credit, the savings and loans debacle back in 1995. I bought product then. I bought product in San Diego, California when U-Hauls were leaving the state of California and weren't coming back in. Nobody wanted to buy anything in California. You couldn't get a loan on a deal in California. About Tucson, Arizona when it was in, like, nobody wanted to go there because of crime and literature problems and vacancy.

Like, you want to be in markets when people don't want to be in them. And it takes a lot of courage to do that, okay? Number two, mistake. People are buying too small. Third mistake. The single door is a mistake. No one in America should own a home. Stupid.

It's the dumbest. It's as dumb as putting money in a retirement account. A single door. The single-door, single-family residence was built for banks. It was not built for people. The banks needed a loan product. They sat around in a room and said, hey, dude, we got to get some money going, bro. What can we do?

Let's give people a place to live. What should we call it? Let's call it the American dream. Well, time up for 30 years, bury them in the house. Okay, this would be good for taxes, tax bases. We'll get our congressmen to support it. And that's what happened, man. A couple hundred million people sunk down on 212 10th Street, and they can't move the rest of their lives.

I mean, how often would you guys, sometimes you're in Denver, you're like, dude, I want to get out of Denver. I want to go to some of these other markets. I wish I could be in Houston right now. Or I wish I could float and move to Phoenix. at this time. You know, wouldn't you have like to have been buying Scottsdale and Phoenix six or seven years ago? Okay, so I wouldn't buy any product there. If you're a real estate guy and you're in New York City and you got six, seven, $800,000 of equity sitting in your home and you're in Jersey, New York, the boroughs, anywhere around there. You're in Philadelphia, Boston. You got $800, $900, $900, $1 million of equity in your home.

Dude, sell that house. Get that million. Move it to some other spot in the country. Earned 6% on your money. get you some flow coming in, wait for appreciation to carry that million that'll buy three million, right? Wait for it to be worth six million. That's what we look for. I'm looking for doubles in this market right now. Yeah. Why sit and earn five or six or seven or eight percent? I've heard you talk about this before.

And I agree on half of me agrees like, you know, buying a house might not be the smartest financial decision and maybe it's flat out stupid in most cases, right? that said, there are, would you, I mean, we'll have a little old-fashioned debate here. I would argue that there are better reasons to buy a house than money, right? Things like security of kids in school, things like that. Like, you know, hey, tenant, the landlord's not going to make me move. You don't need a home to have security in good schools. This is true. This is true.

By the way, Europe, I mean, the percentage of a homeownership in Europe is considerably lower than it is here in the United States. And that's where we're going. We're going to, we're going to the European model. Yeah. Okay. And by the way, we're not just going there because of finances. We're going there because 75 million millennials watch their parents get whacked. Yeah.

Okay? They got whacked because what happened was the whole mythology of the house. The Band-Aid or whatever you call it was ripped off in this last cycle. Where people realized, dude, my equity's gone. By the way, what is equity for anyway? What is money for? money is to be used, not saved, put in a hole in the ground, in an address. You can't access money.

The purpose of money is to use it, right? So why do I need one address? Today, you're not even at home, dude. You're written where you can't, the internet don't even work good for you. That is true. Like if I had my, I can afford a home. Look, I could go buy a $10 million house. I don't miss the money.

I'm not bragging. I'm just telling you that's the position I'm in. I still would prefer to live in a different place like every 10 or 12 months. Look at the renter. The renter at 1,200 bucks a month. What does he get? Safety, security, okay, friends, built-in social amenities, a swimming pool, man. For 1,200 bucks a month, you can't get a swimming pool somebody to mow your grass. You get to play volleyball for free. You get to work out for free. You get to be in the pool for free. By the way, we're thinking about we're going to start charging for pool access. I'm coming over. And by the way, somebody cleans that pool for them, right? So there's so many advantages. These 75 million millennials are saying, hey, wait a minute, man, this is a good deal over here.

Two blocks from Whole Foods. Okay. I'm in a neighborhood with average homeowners at 800 grand. the renters at 1,400, 1,400, 1,500, 1,500, with the ability to go to 2000, like they are in Denver right now. So that's all I would say, look, you're going too little, you're waiting too long, you're reading the PLI, the trailing 12 or the purchase and loss statement, and it's filled with lies, okay, and exaggerations. You don't know. I was looking at it, six, okay? I was looking at an apartment complex the other day, and they just flat out, left out, left out, what was it, vacancy, nothing, repair, nothing, management, nothing. Just like, oops, we forgot to include that in the pro forma.

Like, it doesn't even make sense how you can get, like, how broke can get away with that. But there's like, yeah. Well, those brokers should all be fired. Yeah. Licenses. I mean, that stuff's ridiculous. The one thing that we're seeing, and we've seen it done to us, is that what they'll do before they sell a product is the three months to four months when they start marketing the

product, they'll start reducing the salaries. They'll start dropping a guy out or a half a person. on a property. So that's why you need to know your metrics. You need to know your basics. It goes back, hey, look, it's going to cost $1,200 a year to operate a deal with 200 units.

It's going to cost $1,200 bucks in salaries. If you see $900, you should be going, ding, ding, ding, ding, dig. Because you're going to get in there and want to operate it right. And all of a sudden, you're going to see what you thought was a six or a seven turning to a four.

Yeah. So, okay, I want to talk a little bit about the syndication stuff or putting money into somebody else's fun. I mean, you have a fun, and a lot of people have funds now that are, you know, the guys that are out there getting these big deals. So I had a conversation actually with Captain Ryan.

Is he there? Yeah, yeah, Ryan. Say Ryan. Yeah, Ryan and I talked, I don't know, it was probably a year ago. We had kind of a debate about this topic about putting money into somebody else's deal. And I've never done that.

Everything I've done has been my own stuff. So here's my argument. I want to know what your thoughts are on this. Like, if I don't have a lot of money to begin with, if I have 100 grand, right? And I give it to a, I, I, I maybe 200 grand, 100 grand, right? I give it to a guy like you. I mean, I'm going to get, you know, I don't know, anywhere between 6, 10, 12, 15, you know, how good the deal is over time. You know, I'm, I'm not going to turn my 100 into a million, right? But if I do the deal myself, maybe I can take that 100 and turn it to 3,400,000, right?

So that's my reasoning against it. Am I thinking wrong or what are your thoughts on that? Like, why should somebody put money with you instead of their own deal? You can do deals with me that you can't do by yourself. Okay. There's so many reasons why you'd want to do this deal with me. Okay, first of all, I would expect, let's say, let's just take a time horizon of 10 years. I would expect your 200 to be worth 365 on the way out after all fees. That would be my minimum target for your money. 6 to 10%, 15% a year, somewhere in that range over time, okay?

Now, I think I exceed the 365. I doubled your money. You can't get that at the bank. You can't get in a retirement account. And I don't know that you're getting that in deals. If you're getting it in deals, it's because you're doing a lot of work. Okay. That means the only way you could turn $200 into a million, you'd had to turn that deal three times.

That means you had to go out and buy three different deals, 1031, three different times. Do lawyers three different times, okay? Find deals three different times. I'm not doing that, okay? I'm going to tell you, I had a buddy of mine give me 300 grand. He makes, this guy makes a lot of money. He makes more money every year on salary than I do. He gave me 300 grand.

So let me try one of your deals. I gave him $900,000 back. He can buy his own deals. He's got plenty of dough. He gave me 300 grand. He could have put $3 million in it. He just tested it out a little bit, right? I gave him 900 grand back 18 months later.

Why? How can I do that? How can I do that? First of all, he got paid every single month. He didn't have to pick the deal. He didn't have to find the deal. He didn't have to spend time with me looking at 45 deals that we didn't buy. He wasn't on the loan.

If the loan went bad, he walks away, okay? He rode his money on top of my money, which was significantly more than his. He's like, Grant, just pay attention to your money. He put in 300. He gets 900 back, okay? It was a triple, best investment he's ever made. And the point I'm making, could he even find that deal? Could he get access to that deal?

Is he in the game for that deal? The last thing that makes the difference is never the fund and never the terms. It is the deal. You need a deal guy. Whoever you invest with, you need to make sure they have a picker, a picker. You know, you need a magical picker. You need a Tom Brady that can pick. Yeah.

And picking right, picking the right receiver at the right time, means you got to say no to three guys. see people miss the discipline part man you need tremendous discipline particularly in this market right now if you want to make money in real estate right now you need a lot of deals a lot of money a lot of choices a lot of connections different markets you need to be willing to move around the united states and then and you need somebody that can pull the trigger yeah all right so this is great and and And obviously, you know, you need real money to be able to invest in deals like that. So our last show with you, again, one of our listeners' favorite shows, motivating, exciting. This show is a little bit of a different tone.

This show, we're, you know, there's a lot of caution. There's a lot of like, hey, you know, you got to slow your role. You got to be super careful. We're in a really different place. How do we get those folks motivated? because I don't just want to motivate just for the sake of motivating. Yeah. There's a lot of people out there who are looking for opportunity.

They're looking for folks like us here at Bigger Pockets, folks like you grant to be able to say, hey, listen, don't just stop, right? Because if I'm just getting started and I hear the first half of the show, I'm like, oh, geez, man. I mean, like, I might as well just quit then. You know, why? Play the blooper roll first. Yeah.

I got a bunch of motivation. Let me, let me, you guys want to get motivated. Let's get motivated. Okay, I'm going to tell you something. Bitcoin, gold, houses, stock market, income producing real estate. There's only one of those five you want to hold for 10 years. What do you say? What do you say?

I said Bitcoin. Yeah. No, no. Dude, I want, I want something real. Why do I want multiple doors? I want to be paid every month. Okay. I don't care if they go down.

tomorrow. It doesn't matter to me. Sooner or later, they're coming back. Why? Because they produce income. This is the most exciting time I have ever been in real estate. There is a shortage of multifamily affordable income property in America, folks. San Diego's got a shortage. Los Angeles has got a shortage. New York City, Portland, Seattle, Denver, Phoenix, Miami, Orlando, Tampa, Atlanta, right locations, avoid the cranes. This is the time, dude. If you can grab it now, you cannot build $1,000 a month rents anywhere in America today. The concrete, the steel, the drywall, and the labor cost too much to build it, man.

You just got to change the way you think. Here's the other good news. The people in your market don't change your market. It's new people coming into town. Yeah. Okay? It's when white earth comes to town. new talent, new money changes markets.

Now, that being said, bro, you've got to be willing to be nimble, okay? I guarantee you my real estate's going to be around longer than Facebook. My real estate's going to be around longer than Twitter, okay? Crypto-cash. I don't want my money in cash. My real estate will be around 30 years after I died. There is no app, no technology, no Airbnb that can get rid of $1,100 month rent, there will be $3,000 in 30 years.

Yeah. That makes sense. I'm paying down debt. I'm paying down debt. You don't get that in crypto? You want a million dollars worth of freaking Bitcoin? Who's going to buy a million dollars worth of Bitcoin today? You better have a big sack.

You better have 100 million to buy a million. You better have at least 100 million and know, hey, I'm a waste a million on this. Yep. Because you're not buying Bitcoin at a quarter anymore, right? So who's going to buy a million dollars worth the gold today and let us say, in the ground. I don't want to do that. I need income. 99% of your audience needs freaking flows, second flows. So what is not 12% or 14 or 15? It's still six or seven or eight, which is 20 times the bank on a currency that's depreciating. We know the cash is going down in value, and we know

overtime, as long as I got enough time, I'm paying to wait. Are you guys excited? motivated? Am I supposed to be motivated? Was that motivating? Oh, I don't know. No, that was good. Now, that was good. You should have an erection with like real estate. What? Hey, so. This is good stuff. This is good. Let me ask a follow up. We had a guy we interviewed yesterday, Kevin Bup on the podcast. The guy does, what he does? Mobile homes. Mobile homes. Mobile homes.

Mobile home parks. Biles multifamily. Love mobile home for parks. Okay. But this. This guy was buying properties at 65 cents on the dollar. This is before the bubble. He was doing the multi-families. Yeah. He was buying.

So, seven and so on and so forth. He was buying at 65 cents on the dollar. And the market tanked, right? The market tanked, this guy was buying stuff dirt cheap at 65 cents on the dollar. The market tanked rent started to drop. Now he wasn't making income anymore. He was upside down. Now he's in a lot of trouble.

So you can hold through if you've got the resources, right? If you've got the cash, if you've got reserves in order to deal with a situation like that. But a lot of folks aren't in that position, right? They don't have hordes and hordes of capital. So what do those guys do in order to kind of cover their backsides? You know, can you still buy at 65 cents? Well, if the market tanks 40%, you're in a lot of trouble, right? Look, you're your boy yesterday.

KB is going to be BC. Before car down, beat by car down, but what do we? Or bankrupt, bankroll. What's it? Look, man, look, the guy made some mistakes. Sure. I got 4,000 units that we reserve. We have a million dollars reserved every year just for rehab.

So in 10 years, I'll have $12 million sitting in a rehab account if I never used any of it. Like, you've got to plan on roofs. and you got to plan on paint. Again, why you probably should partner with somebody and scale out. When you have four units or eight units or 16 units and you put away $200 a unit, you got $3,000, dude. One storm wipes you out. Yeah.

Irma hits Florida. We lose $70,000 for the landscaping, okay? I don't even feel it. Like nothing happened to me. I'm like so grateful. Look, you guys need time and with time you need reserves. That's the other thing I would tell you is this. This is my fifth business, okay?

My first four businesses fund the fifth business. All the money that I make from the first four, first of all, I don't spend a lot of money. I'm a real estate guy. I don't spend money. I don't buy fancy shoes. And look, I got a nice car. I got a nice car. I lease that car.

I rent the car so that I can throw it away in two years and say, come pick it up. I don't want it. I'm tired of white on white. Black is the new white, and I'm going black again. So the point is, you. You know, that dude made some mistakes, bro. And hey, maybe I'll make some mistakes. I have made a lot of mistakes in real estate in 30 years.

The one mistake I have never made, probably three mistakes I've never made, never lost money, never lost a deal, never give anything back. Yeah. Why? Because they produced income. And as long as they produced income, he should have done a trailing 12 under the worst case scenario that we use. Because that's the question I'm asking you now, right? That's exactly where I'm trying to go.

So how does all these, the hundreds of thousands of people who are sitting there listening to you, rip on KB saying he did everything wrong. Well, what could he have done right? He didn't do everything wrong. He didn't go back to a break even. What's my worst case scenario? How bad could things get? Okay.

Clearly he bought in a marketplace where the rents could fluctuate that much. They shouldn't fluctuate that much. He should have been in a tighter market, probably why you don't want to be in the mobile home space, why you don't want to do Section 8, and definitely why you don't want to do Section 8, and definitely why you don't want to do the high end of the market. Again, why you need to know your market. In 2008, what markets did not collapse? Why did all my buddies lose everything and I didn't lose anything?

Why did banks go underwater and I didn't? Because I was in markets that were restricted. Like you could not, like the rents could only drop so much. Yeah. In fact, if there was one thing that would benefit my real estate right now, it would be a contraction. Yeah. I wouldn't mind going back to 6% unemployment.

What does somebody need to do? I mean, you had talked about looking for markets where those rents are right in that mid-level, right? What else can people do to identify those markets where the chance of contraction on rents is minimized? Cost to build becomes a barrier. You need barriers to entry. This is no offense. It's not intended to be offensive to anybody. if you look for alternative lifestyle markets, gay and lesbian markets, are great markets.

They're very restricted to. Any, anything that restrict, very liberal voters tend to be restrictive to an environment, right? Look at any places, Montrose, Houston, Texas, Montrose is a, is typically a gay neighborhood. They just protect one another. It's, you know, like, it's just a tight little market. If you go to Los Angeles, if you go to Los Angeles, and what are the, Russian-type people, they're not Russian, but they call themselves Russian, but they're not Russian. You're talking about West Hollywood? No, no. Armenians, Armenians. If you go to Glendale, Glendale, the Armenians, dude, if you're an Armenian, and you own all that freaking stuff in Glendale, you're getting so rich, it's unbelievable, okay? Go to West Hollywood. West Hollywood

is a gay, gay neighborhood, okay? It's a great market. None of that matters to me, right? Their lifestyle doesn't matter to me. Sure. I just need three times rent, no criminal record, okay, and don't beat up your wife or your boyfriend. On my property. There you go. On the property.

There you go. Go do it down the street. I need 65% debt coverage. I don't want to be in the 80s. I mean, I'd go there, but, you know, I want long-term debt. I want great markets. I want whole foods in my backyard. I want Starbucks close to me.

I don't want to see cranes in the air. This is what I want. I want it to feel good. I'd like it to be in a warm climate. Dude, I'm going to be good, bro. I'm going to be good. So the cranes for you is addition of supply. You don't want that addition of supply.

Cranes in the air, beware. Yeah. I was driving around Denver. I was in Denver. It's like the second most cranes in the country here. It took me 45 minutes to get a half a mile to try to get the Starbucks because there was so much instruction. Every row was shut down and new stuff going up everywhere. Oh yeah. Yeah. It drove me nuts. So yeah, I stay right from that.

All right. Well, let me just tell you. So the cryptocurrencies, there's a thousand cryptocurrencies now, you know, you're not buying Bitcoin 10 years ago, okay? You're buying, there's a thousand cryptos. That's what concerns me about the crypto, right? What concerns me about gold? I got to dig it out of the ground to put it back in the ground. And I don't know anybody that's ever traded a gold coin for anything. So like, I know a lot of people that have to need a place to live every day. There's no money to be made in single family homes, so I don't have any interest there, right? I don't know how to make money in a single family home. I don't know why anybody would buy one except that your wife or your girlfriend saying,

we need a, we need, we got to have our little welcome out. Don't underestimate that, though. Yeah, the power of the wife. Oh, yeah, man. I mean. She's stupid, dude. wife is like Hey Heather

Heather come here I didn't think about what you guys are thinking about me and my wife want to build an empire we don't want a house I want to build an empire dude I want to go where I want when I want okay some shit happens I want to get on my plane and get the hell out of here

okay if you had a house in Miami two weeks ago you didn't want to be here me and my wife got on our plane put our kids looked at property Charleston, Houston, went to Los Angeles, spent two weeks there. This should be the goal that people have, the ability to move. That's freedom.

Mobility is freedom, right? You know, these NFL ballplayers, some of them stand, some of them kneel, some of them don't go out, some of them lock arms. Dude, that's freedom. You should be able to do what you want in this country. This is true. I agree. Here's the, we don't need to rehash the whole argument, but here's the, here's the objection I have to that. I'm just choosing not to get into this debate.

No, no, no, no. No, I like this debate. I like this. I actually wrote a blog post a long time ago. I doubt you ever read across it. Yeah, it was called Greg Cardona's wrong. Here's why. I saw it.

Okay, good. I got to play it up. So my premise was, you know, like, if the goal of your life is to get as rich as possible or to build an empire, it makes perfect sense. If the goal of your life is to grow old in the same house with your kids for 40, which is not necessarily my goal, but that's my wife's gold. But that's like this like, that's like,

Like your kids like 16 your guts. That's true. They will. They're out, bro. I hate his guts. They ain't coming back until they're 30. They won't like you between 16 and probably 20.

They're not going to even freaking, they don't want to talk to you, dude. Okay. Why do you want to grow old in the same address? Dude, I want to grow old in Greece. And then I want to grow old in Russia. And then I want to go to Switzerland and grow old. And then I want to go to Iceland. I want to go to Iceland.

I want to move. I want mobility. By the way, I don't want to grow old. be as rich as possible. I want to be as free as possible. And it just so happens on this planet. It takes freaking paper. Okay. It takes money, credit, debit cards, American Express, cash. It takes money to move around, right? So I know everybody wants that lifestyle. They just given up on it until somebody says, hey, dude, let's be free. Let's don't do what our moms and dads did. Yeah. And they're doing that. I mean, that's the four-hour work week, fairest, right? I mean, as much as I think a lot of what's in

is, you know, nonsense. I mean, that mindset, that mentality of let's not wait till we're 65 to get out and enjoy our life, the young folks today, I mean, they're eating that up. And I love it. I mean, it's brilliant. Now, Josh bought an RV recently. And he's now like the RV guy. I bought an RV, man.

I got freedom. I could go wherever the hell I want, man. Get my bus. You got an old address. That's it. That's exactly right. And you just hadn't gotten rid of your house. You ought to dump the house now.

Oh, you know. Dude, I would take that $650,000 that you got in your house. I'd go by a $2.5 million deal. I'd let that deal pay itself down over the next 30 years. And grant, why don't you, you fly out to Denver. Yeah. You sit down with my wife and I for some dinner. You convince her of your argument and I'll do it in a heartbeat.

I'm all about it. I need, listen, when I was in my 20s, actually, you know, I lived down 12,000 bucks a year and had a great life living in a condo in West Hollywood that I had paid $250,000 for. I didn't, you know, like I don't need all the BS like you talked about. I don't need it. I don't give a damn about it, right? Like for me, life is about experiences. Yeah, exactly.

Now, that said, it's hard. When you're raising three kids, I got three little girls, right? So you need, you know, you need an environment that suits your spouse. In my case, I'm not the boss. I got no say in the matter. I got no say in the matter. I would love to take, go live in a nice, you know, three bedroom, four bedroom condo somewhere that I'm running out or own whatever it is. Yeah.

And be able to move around, have one in New York, have one in L.A., have one in Denver. But guess what? The American dream of old still exists within society. And folks like my wife, folks like Brandon's wife, you know, they're out there and they're saying, hey, we want to be stable. We want to sit around. I would love to move every year. That would make me happier than anything else because I get, I get itchy sitting around in one place. Yeah. And I'm with you, man. And, and, and, you know, like, this is just a dream I started having years ago. I'm like, why am I stuck in one address? This wasn't my idea. It was my parents' idea. Buy a house. All I saw was people dying in their house. And you know what happened? As soon as the mom or dad died in the house, the kids sold the house. Nobody wanted it.

Yeah. We're going to have, in the next 30 years, you're going to see the house. market in America crumble. You're going to see half of the population. We've got 80 million baby boomers that represent the mass ownership of America, start to die off. They're going to be going to senior homes. They're not going to need their homes anymore. What are their kids going to do? Sell the houses. Fuck it. I don't want it. Yep. They're going to abandon these houses, okay? Where are all these people going to move to? They don't want to live in their mommy's house, right? You're going to see all that stock show up on the marketplace and it's going to take the value of that three three bedroom house

brick house nine foot ceilings there's now there's now decading over time roofs going bad paint book going bad you know toilets going bad you're just going to see those go down in value man and you're going to see this the value is going to shift to a new way of living yeah yeah all that no I know we got we got to get moving on but I want to if that happens let's say great because it's us together The trio, bro. I like that. The trio. I like it.

So let's say that happens. House prices start to crumble because there's like so many people more, few people want to own them, right? So that job's the price. That makes rent cheaper most likely as well because there's a whole lot of, or does it not? I'm going to say, doesn't that make your rents down? No.

Why would it make my rent go down? I guess I'm just thinking a lot, a lot more rentals on the market. Whole Foods. with two acre park and a swimming pool and a gym. You don't have, your mama ain't got that shit. Your mama's got a lawn that's got to be mowed, windows that have to be fixed, a roof that's going bad, a kitchen is old that makes me feel like I'm still in my mama's house. How did that make you feel, man?

Was it like a pressing thing in your mom's house? I mean, I get warm feelings in my mama's house. I felt trapped. I felt. I got you. I felt that too. My parent, I left as soon as I could. So I get it. I get it. I think it's an interesting take because most people look at home ownership as it's like the quintessential goal of life as to buy a house. The banks, that was for the banks. It wasn't for the people.

Irrelevant though. It's still out there, right? What would banks be though, guys, where would banks be today without a home loan? Oh, nowhere. They would be half as powerful as they are. Well, less than that. Where would Wall Street be without the Keough and the pension plan and the retirement account? They convinced America to get rid of the damn money that they work for. Yeah.

Well, the problem is that's not going away anytime soon. And as much as you or I shout from the rooftops that that's bullshit, it's not going to change. You know, your argument, though, is in 20, 30 years, as all of our parents start to drop off, then maybe we'll start to see a shift in the millennials. But that's, I mean, that's a whole generation out, right? I mean, you're talking a generation out. We're talking to people right now that are listening to your broadcasts that are waking up. Anybody listening to you two guys are already waking up.

They're like, hey, I want a different play here. I don't want to do what my mom and dad did. I don't want just a job. They're looking for opportunities, right? People are waking up right now to what your mom and dad did didn't work. You put money in a bank. They turn it into digits. You can't get access to it.

It's a rip-off. You send money to a retirement account. You can't get to for 30 years. You ignore and abandon the money in some fucking bullshit Kio. You can't get it, can't use it. Wall Street's got it. You put money in stocks that go down in value. The S&P is at the highest levels in 20 years.

And steel, steel cannot outperform commercial real estate. I'm convinced. I'm going to become a real estate investor. I'm doing it. I'm ready, guys. I'm excited. All right. Before we do,

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These questions come direct out of the Bigger Pockets forums. we're going to fire them at you, Grant. Number one, where should I, where should I purchase my first commercial multifamily? What location would you recommend? You need to know your market. Number one, KNOW, know your market. You need to know down to the, to the pieces of the neighborhood to like, I'm talking about hundreds of feet of a block, not the whole block, hundreds of feet, know your market,

know the rent's there, know the occupancy there, know the expenses there, know how P&L works, know what the rent can be there, know the cost, know the rent can be there, know the crime there know who's going to live there who's your ideal client there you need a k-no-w which most people are not willing to do the homework there you go i like it all right next question look at that's you look at that cash flow what type what types of apartment complexes weathered the great recession so who survived during the downturn in in o eight 800 to 1200 month rents that's it the ones that you're looking Dude, I had product that didn't even, like, we didn't even lower the rents. It helped us.

Like, like people were, consider what happened in 2008. People traded in their houses and kept their cars. Yeah. People said, hey, I don't want my house anymore. Here's the keys, but I want my visa card. Yeah. They went from from 5,000 square feet to two inches. It's going to happen again, too.

Yeah. It will. Absolutely. All right. Next question, you know, because occasionally I do this in the fire. This is a question for benefiting me. So I'm looking at a property right now in Denver. It is a nine-unit property. It's smaller, but it's a little over a million dollars.

He's going to yell at you. He's going to yell at you. I know. Is it too small? Because a little of a back-over, I got 1031 exchange. I need to buy something about a million bucks worth. Okay. So should I go for the nine unit in Denver? Should I go for the 30 unit in Ohio?

Should I go for the single family in Hawaii? What do you think? Definitely single family in Hawaii. Oh, no, you're out of your mind, man. You should get to Hawaii and I'll go and I'll stay there and we'll be good. Not, dude. Just go to stay there as much as you want. Like, just go there.

Like, you want to go to Hawaii? Go there, rent a nice place, not a place that doesn't have internet. This is a nice Marriott. It's a slow internet. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I wouldn't go to Ohio. I wouldn't go.

I personally wouldn't go to Hawaii. Ohio. I would stay out of the rust belt. Unless you're going to go core, like, around tight cities with some population growth, stay away from all that. I would also tell you maybe to start looking around, how long do you have with your million dollars? I got like 40 days from now to identify. Yeah. So I got to find something in the next. It's tough. It's tough. That's a whole another thing that we could talk about that we have. That whole 1031 bull shit law. Yeah. I like it if I can avoid paying all my taxes.

Yeah, but I mean, the way the rules written. There's not taking your money off the table at some point, too. So you don't want a bad deal, man. I agree. I agree. Haunts me day and night until my 40 days are up until I got it. So, yeah, I think it's a, that's kind of my choices. Do I go big and number of units?

Do I go medium and buy more expensive units? Or do I go small and get really, really nice? Why don't you do a variation? How much cash do you have? A couple hundred thousand. I think three. I got about three, three, fifty to put into something. Yeah, good.

Once you take the 350, raise another 650. You'd be a third of the equity and go do a deal for $3 million. Not a bad idea. Again, what I said earlier is people make, one mistake that people make is they buy on budgets. You should not buy real estate on a budget. Yeah. I like it. I like it.

Yeah. I'm going to definitely put some thought. You open the door. I got to ask the question, man. I mean, like to me, Grant, you guys are there about. This, man. I mean, the 1031. This guy grew up West Hollywood and ended up being married to a wife.

Switch back over to a half-second. I grew up in New York, man. Come on. I just experimented for a while. It doesn't make, you can't identify who you are. Just so voices don't, like, people know, that was Josh Dorkin talking. That wasn't Brandon Turner. just so we're all on the same page here.

So the 1031, right? I mean, the 1031 is brilliant. It works great for real estate investors. The problem is the pressure that that 1031 creates with that constrained time period is absurd. Now, my question, this is something that's bugged me. And every time I have a friend who's suffering through, I got to buy a property because of the freaking 1031 thing. And they're all about to chase crappy deals.

because they got this pressure pushing them. And like we've got to either do something about this 1031. Like expand the timeline. We got to do something. Is there any chance? I'm assuming that you've looked into this a little more than I have. Is there any chance to get that shifted, push, changed, anything like that, that 1031 timeline? Well, I'm going to say something I probably shouldn't say, number one.

Uh-oh. This off the record, okay, just us. The only date you really need to worry about is the six months. So if you can read between the lines and figure to rest out, the six months is your concern. Yeah. So when you look for an accommodator, find somebody accommodating. This is some Yoda stuff here.

I like it. I like it. I can read. I can read. All right. But the other thing, look, You know, as long as they keep that law in place, it's a great law. It's just the 65 days is just stupid.

It's just a dumb regulation. So I've done, I don't know, eight or 10, 1031s. They're brutal. They're nerve-wracking because you've got this other thing on you, right? So the only way to avoid them is to plan your sale with that in mind. But then when you're selling your deal and they know you're getting a 1031, you're also in a vulnerable position because now they can retrade you know and you've got to move. Yeah. It's just a tricky game. Again, that's why amateurs in this game, it's fine to start an amateur.

Do not stay an amateur in this game. Like any game. All games reward the professionals and spank the amateurs. Yeah. I like that. I like that. It's great. All right. I, you know, I'm not even going to ask my last question. So, you know, we're shifting over to the final. banking and I'm just like, I'm done. I'm done. Let's move on. All right.

Let's get to, we're going to close this thing up with the world famous. Famous for. These are the four same questions we ask every guest every week. We've asked you them before back when you're on the show back in 108, I think number 108 years ago, a couple years ago. But we're going to ask me that maybe it's changed. Other than your own, do you have a favorite, well, we're going to start, I don't

think you've written a real estate book yet unless I'm wrong, but do you have a favorite real estate related book? No, I don't, unless you guys wrote one. We've written a couple. All right. We're going to call it the ones that we wrote. Wow. Grant Cardone says the bigger bucks and the best in the biz.

That was awesome. There we go. Thank you for that quote. Thank you. I've never read any real estate book. All right. But I've read a thousand, a thousand P&Ls. There you go.

And I actually think that's a really good answer right there, right? So many people read a thousand real estate books. They never a single P&L or look at a property. So I think that's telling. All right. All right. Next one. Non, non-cardone.

authored business books. Non-Cardone business book. Good book called The Problems of Work. Great book. Non-Cardone business books. Look, man, I like all the old stuff, too. I like the, what was the rich dude? The richest guy in the world.

Richest man in Babylon. Great book. Yeah, I love that. I love that. Because, you see, again, all that supports what I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good book.

It's awesome. I like the Bible, man. Look up the Bible. Look up anything the Bible talks about money. I was reading this thing this morning to my staff. about, you know, the master that gave the three guys some dough. He gave one guy five tablets. Another guy, three tablets or two tablets and one guy, one guy, one guy,

two went out and made five more. The guy he gave two, two, made two more. And the guy that he gave one to because of his abilities were less, put it in the ground. Yep. And the only guy that got rewarded was the guy that put the five to work and turn it into five more. The guy that got one, he's like, dude, you're an idiot. He bought a house, my money. Hey, Pastor Brandon.

You never shared that story with me. I'm not a pastor. I'm a youth volunteer. It's very different. All right. Okay. All right, man. So what are you doing these days for fun?

But I mean, I know you do real estate for fun. What are you doing for fun, man? Dude, I like the golf game. Okay. I like slapping whitey around. Dude, I like adventures. You know, I like adventures. I like traveling and new places, meeting new people.

I've been helping a lot. I helped with Irma. I help with Harvey. We're doing something for Mexico and Puerto Rico. That is always fun for me. It's a big adventure. You know, giving back as an adventure for me. It's not work.

It's fun. Dude, it's exciting. I like adventures, you know. I like possibility. I like getting my hands dirty. Yeah. What was the coolest thing you've done in the last two years? Just, you know, what thing, one thing that stands out to you in your life in the last two years?

I spoke to 40,000. I spoke to 40,000. people in Las Vegas recently. I need, I need, I need, I need something that somebody else didn't answer for you. That's true. That's pretty good. Let me see. That's impressive, by the way.

Dude, I don't think about the past much, right? Like, I'm on to the, I'm always on to the next thing. Yeah. So. All right. Well, you spoke to 40,000 people. My, my eight-year-old got in front of 400 and sang the national anthem. There you go.

How proud? For you, bro. Oh, my God. Amazing. Mindblower, I need to now get her in front of a stadium. So anyone listening, if you could get me in front of a stadium, I want my little girl to stand up and sing the national anthem in front of 30,000 people. Bring your daughter to Vegas for the 10X growth conference.

There'll be 10,000 people in a room and another 20,000 people online. I'll have her sing the national anthem there. I love that. By the way, I heard so many people say amazing things about the conference. Yeah, that's awesome. And thank you for that invitation. Yeah. All right.

I'm moving on. Last question for me for the day. Grant, what do you think separates successful people from all those who give up, fail, or just never get started? What's the thing that's like if you had to pick one thing that really separates people? One word. Do. Do. Oh, do. I like it. Do. Do. Do. Doing this. Doing this. I just, I do more than most people. I look at more deals than most people. I look at more P&Ls than most people. I look at more P&Ls than most people. I look at more people. I, I look at more P&Ls and most people. I, I, I, you know, I wrote five books before one hit. I spoke for three years before I figured out what my message was. So, you know, I bought a lot of real estate. I shouldn't have bought it. I bought the first unit. I bought the 38. I mean, I made money on that 38 units.

I made a lot of money on that 38 units, but I shouldn't have bought that. I should have skipped. I should have found somebody early on to partner with. I should have found a guy, a baller that had a lot of dough, a lot of access, a lot of guts, and scaled out. I'd be at 25,000 units. I'm going to go to 40,000 units. You asked me what I'm excited about or what I've done that I'm excited about. I'm going from 4,000 to 40,000 units.

I'm going to figure out how to get there. That's it. Take it and sell the whole portfolio to some of these idiots on Wall Street. Nice. Nice. Hey, Cardone. I got a question for you. And I say that with love.

That's not a, you know, disrespectful, Cardone. It was a little disrespectful. What's that? It was a little disrespectful. Mr. Cardone, sir. Grant, you started as a kid, right? Back when you were a kid, I understand that, like, I mean, you were, you were a bit of a screw up, right? Yeah, yeah, it was.

And today, we're talking about you doing 40,000 properties before you're done. That's where you're going. Yeah. I just want people to hear that because I think people hear this show, they hear you talk, and they think this is a guy who started with millions of dollars. who was given everything. You started on your own. You built this up from nothing, correct?

Dude, at 25 years old, I had no money, none. I didn't have a quarter. I had more money when I was eight. So, you know, it's a shame. My six-year-old, you know, kids end up with more money than they, the more schooling I got, the less money I had. So I'm like, something wrong with this deal, man. 25 years old, I wasn't just financially broke.

I was spiritually broke, physically broke. I had zero self. I was bankrupt in self-esteem. I had no confidence, couldn't talk to people. So look, if I can do this, this thing's real, okay? But I'm just trying to share with people the mistakes I made. You know, I went little because I was taught to go little. I was taught, oh, do it in baby steps.

I wanted to buy real estate. My mom said, that's a bad idea. I said, how much real estate do you own, mom? I don't own it. Well, maybe you need to stay out of that part of the advice given. I mean, at this point, everything you've told me, you told me, don't talk to strangers, you know. You told me, you're the one that taught me into the damn college thing. Now I got a bunch of debt.

You said, don't masturbate. I didn't listen. You know, you said, don't talk to strangers. Now, I can't talk to anybody. Like, what do I do? You tell me not to talk to strangers and don't jerk off. Dude, I got, what am I going to do this? Mix messages.

Mix messages, man. I'm going to be all by myself. what are going to just because they're your parents and just because they love you doesn't mean all the advice they give you is good yeah she told me not to go into real estate told me not to do it dude it's been the best thing i've done in my life yeah well that's what i wanted people here because uh you know i had a guy who works for us craig tell me he's like you know it's your 250th show this is going to be our 250th show by the way it's good for your 250th show you got to have cardone who at 25 had nothing.

And talking to him, I don't know how many years later, I'm not going to age you and offend you again because I called you Cardone and that pissed you the hell off. But I'm not going to do it again. And, you know, see what you've become and see what you've done with yourself. And if you can do it, and I'm not saying this as an insult, but if you can do it, anyone can do it. So get out there. I will tell you this.

You know, I thought I was going to be a professional ball player. That was my dream. And then I just didn't have the body for it. My body wasn't strong enough. And I probably didn't have the discipline, definitely didn't have the mentorship. And then I kind of just got all distracted because I didn't have a dad. And maybe it had been different if I had a dad. And then, but you know, the reality is, man, everybody that's watching,

you have a better chance of building a real, becoming famous, like rich in real estate, than you have of any other career. Yeah. Okay. The chances you create an app or becoming the Facebook guy or NBA ball player or, you know, being discovered on American Idol, the chances are so remote. The chances of getting financial freedom in income producing properties, you don't have to go back to school, you don't have to get a license, you don't have to be a genius, you don't even need good credit. You just need

you need some freaking courage, you need some knowledge, you need a little bit of dough and you need time. That's great. Awesome, man. Well, we'll leave it at that. Awesome, man. I appreciate you guys, all right. Thank you, Grant. Thank you. Where can people find more about you, Graham. Where do people connect with you, Cardone Capital, all that? Cardone Capital.com, Cardone Capital.com. We only take accredited investors. Okay, we did two funds last year.

We went to over 100% subscribed. We had to actually return people's money. Our average investor is doing $450,000 right now. We have a fund that's going to be open. We'll probably close in the next 30 days. It's a $40 million fund. It'll do $160 million bucks in deals. So I'm going to raise, I'm going to raise the billion dollars in cash over the next

three years in cash. It's impressive. And let me just tell you, the ride for the investors is going to be unbelievable. Because my score, unlike syndicators, my game is not to fee these deals to death. My deal is to scale out my portfolio and take it to Wall Street and give Blackstone or Goldman their little present all wrapped up, which they'll pay a premium for. So that score here. It's not to make a fee on the deals, even though we get a fee to manage deals, buy deals, etc.

But again, you got to pick the right product. And I got a long play here to go back to Blackstone or one of those groups six or seven, eight years out. They want to buy revenue. They want to buy the revenue. They want to buy scale. They have big, big, giant problems. They have billion-dollar problems. They're not interested in $50 million purchases.

They're interested in $4 billion purchases. For sure. Hey, listen, it's been a pleasure, man. It's been awesome. Be good. Okay, thanks, guys. Take great. Thank you, great.

All right, guys. That was Grant Cardone. Wow. Very insightful observation there. Are you sure that was Grant Cardone? Thank you. Yes. That was Cardone, Grant Cardone.

See, I was going to do something cool, and then I saw his face when I dropped the Cardone. And I was like, oh, I pissed him off. Yeah, I thought it was a good show. Yeah. I thought, I still think, you know, I think there are legitimate reasons to own a house. And I think, you know, but that's all right. Grant can have a different opinion. I thought, you know how you like when you're in a discussion with somebody?

You think of it later. Here would be my argument. I would like to say to Grant. I was sitting there, by the way, trying to counter argue. And I'm like, I'm drawing blank. I'm drawing blank. This guy, this guy is a pro arguer. He is.

He's like a, it's like Muhammad Ali of the microphone. And I'm just, I'm going to lose that battle. So I'm going to just kind of sit and wait until he's guys. so I could smack them around a little bit. Here's my argument. If the goal of your life, I was trying to kind of get to this, if the goal of your life is to be the best violinist on the planet, if that's all you want in life to be the violinist,

it makes zero sense to go after multifamily. It makes zero sense to go after apartments, real estate, business, right? I mean, really, all you should be going after is becoming the best violinist on Earth. In other words, the goal of your life defines... Does that have to do with anything? Is this the worst argument?

I'm really glad you can bring it up. The goal of, of your life should define what you do, right? So like if the goal of your life is to travel, like the goal of his life is to travel and to see the world and do all the things, then yes, that's what he should do is do exactly what he's doing. If the goal of your life, though, is to do something totally different than that, then you should be doing something different. And you can't judge somebody on what you want out of life based on what they want out of life, if that makes sense. There's my argument. So I like that argument, because I know that Heather is

standing there staring you down, waiting for you to defend the life that you've created. She is totally staring me down. I'm watching you eyeball her and she eyeball you. I can't even see her, but I could see it. I can see it happen. And you're looking with puppy dog eyes back at her like, is that good, honey? Was that good? Is that a good response?

She can only hear half the conversation though. She doesn't know yet why Grant said that we were. Listen, I agree with a lot of what he said and I disagree with a lot of what he said. I think single family houses, you know, what he says makes a lot of sense. Like, hey, listen, the future, like, I could definitively see millennials not wanting to stay in their family's houses. I could definitively see a situation where, you know, there's a glut of inventory out there for so many reasons. You know, does that mean that buying single family houses is stupid? Of course, it doesn't mean that.

It's just, you know, his thing is apartments and he does a great job with them. and it's a great way to build wealth. He has some great arguments about how properties are valued and why apartments make the most sense given that real estate does come in cycles. And, you know, multifamily real estate, when there's a housing slump, isn't going to be affected if your rents aren't affected, right? I mean, valuations of these properties are determined based upon the income that they bring in. So if you can create a stabilized income by buying properties at that level and have it be relatively stabilized, you know, will you see some, you know, decline in the value? Sure, is your cash flow going to drop? Maybe a little bit. But at scale, you're in a much better position than somebody who's got a single family house whose tenants are like, I can't pay for this. I'm out, right? And they go and they look for the apartments or the condos. So, I mean, I think there's validity to it, obviously,

Grant is a bigger than life persona. And he, he tends to push, push the limits on his argument. And I think it's great. He makes a point, right? There you go. Well,

how's that? It was pretty good. You know, a little long-winded, but, wow. Wow. 250 shows later and you're,

you're just still making me feel small. Well, you know, I make a lot of people feel small. Yeah. I was waiting for that, too. Yeah. It happens. Yeah.

Well, I'm, exactly three minutes of sleep last night, and that's not an exaggeration. We flew in on a red eye last night to New York. And so... Congratulations. Where's your private jet? Yeah, you know, I'm working on that.

If I could, only I could be as cool as Grant. Listen, I will tell you, I made a snide remark about the private jet. And like, you and I have had this very conversation, right? I mean, we have... About your jet? Yeah. You know, a bigger rocket jet. Yeah, yeah.

No, but like, I mean, it, in some cases, things like that. I mean, make a whole hell of a lot of sense, right? I mean, you get on the jet and you can go fly from city to city without dealing with all the nonsense. Oh, there's Rosie. It's a really, really good business expense. I would agree. It is a good expense. And the fuel is a very big expense. But whatever, if it makes sense, if it makes money, whatever. All right. You're already checked out. I can tell you're trying to get out of here and go play with your kids. I got my girl sitting here. Show 250.

Obviously, complete and utter disarray. I got to find a more professional co-host here. I mean, this is just absurdity. Hey, put Rosie on the mic. Rosie on the mic. Do you say hi, Rosie? Here. Can you say hi? Can you say show 250 in the books? Say show 250.

She's smiling and grinning at the camera, but that's about it. All right. You guys, this is show 250 at the bigger Pockets podcast. Thank you so much for everything that you do for us and for your communities. Get out there. Make it happen. And, uh, oh, there it goes. I'm Josh Dorkin. And here's my co-host. Brandon and Rosie. Signed on us. Sign in on. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the height. You're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others

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