BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 252: House Hacking (Your First Deal) & Life Hacking with Craig Curelop

Episode Date: November 9, 2017

People spend years thinking about buying real estate—but many never take the first step. Not today’s guest, though! Today, we sit down with Craig Curelop, a new investor in the expensive Denver market, as he shares his story of buying his very first “house hack” and how’s he’s actually getting PAID to live for free. You’ll also learn some other creative way Craig is generating extra income each month (including renting out his car!) on his quest for financial freedom. It’s a super inspiring story with a plethora of tips, so don’t miss a moment of it! In This Episode We Cover: Craig’s story and how he found out about BiggerPockets What he does at BiggerPockets How he house hacked his first home in Denver Tips for finding a good agent How to find a good lender What exactly PITI is How he’s generating rent from his place His method of fast tracking his way to financial freedom How his Airbnb system works, including how he handles cleaning Tips for turning liabilities to assets How he rents out his car A discussion on having a frugal lifestyle His future plans for real estate investing And SO much more! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Webinar BiggerPockets Marketplace 12 Easy Tips to Reduce Your Vacancy Rates and Find Great Tenants (blog) Airbnb Craigslist Turo Books Mentioned in this Show The Book on Rental Property Investing by Brandon Turner Set for Life by Scott Trench The 10x Rule by Grant Cardone The One Thing by Gary Keller Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz &? Janet Mills Fire Round Questions Do I need to disclose to my “roommates” that I am the landlord and owner? Is it a good deal to get a duplex (for the purpose of house hacking) if you paying small amount from your pocket every month to cover all the costs? Has anyone put a kegerator in their Airbnb? What would you recommend: pool, hot tub or none? Tweetable Topics: “The first step to buying a property is to find a lender and to find an agent.” (Tweet This!) “To find the lender that’s right for you, you have to have the criteria you’re looking for.” (Tweet This!) “Everyone has a unique advantage in their life.” (Tweet This!) Connect with Craig Craig’s BiggerPockets Profile Craig’s Facebook Profile Craig’s LinkedIn Profile Craig’s Twitter Profile Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We all joke that rentals are passive, but if you're spending nights matching receipts or guessing what a property earned last month, that's not passive at all. Baselaine fixes that part of landlording, the financial chaos. Their banking and AI bookkeeping system automatically tags every transaction, updates cash flow insights in real time, and builds the reports you need for tax season. You can even automate transfers and move money around without paying wire fees. It's just cleaner. Sign up at baselane.com slash BP and get a $100 bonus. Baselane is a financial technology company and not a bank. Banking services provided by Threadbank, member FDIC.

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slash BP pod. That's N-R-E-I-G dot com slash B-Pod. This is the Bigger Pockets podcast. Show 252. So honestly, I thought it would be weird at first, but I actually love it because I get to meet people. It's really cool people traveling from all around the world. So I just had a woman from Germany stay in my place, a couple from Australia. So I'm meeting like awesome people.

And it's my favorite part. I actually love it. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online.

What's going on, everybody? This is Josh Dorkin. Host to the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, Mr. Brandon Turner. What's going on, man? That's my name. Don't wear it out. Yeah, that's great. That's great.

So you're sick, right? I am only in the head. Yeah. And in the throat because I have a cold. You sound that today. It sounds like an old lady who smoked like 70 years of her life. I'm like that lady today. That's fair.

That's fair. How are you doing? I'm good, man. I'm good, you know. Had a little snowball fight with my kids yesterday, which. Wasn't it like 80 degrees like two days ago? Yeah. So this is how it went down.

It was 80 degrees for, you know, for a while. And then it was 80 by like three in the afternoon. By midnight, it was snowing. That's crazy. That was insane. That was insane. Forced me to go by an air compressor because I hadn't blown out my sprinklers and had to learn how to blow out my sprinklers, which is not that hard, by the way. But yeah, man, I had, I don't know, it's weird.

As a parent, there's certain moments in your life that you'll notice. And I had a moment yesterday that just caught me. I had a snowball fight with two of my three girls. and I noticed that the three of a, I was having more fun in this snowball fight than I had had in months. Like I was giggling, I was laughing,

I was cracking up. I was so happy. I was in such a good place. It felt so good. You know, that's what life's about, man, trying to find those places

and trying to have as many of those as possible. So that was awesome. And that's why we do what we do, that bigger pockets, right? Right. Like Josh and I, like, you know,

like, we've been doing what's four and a half years now? Like we both, Yeah, we both know, I mean, even though we spend a lot of time working on bigger pockets, stuff, we both know what financial freedoms like, like the ability that you don't have to do what you want. You can spend those times with the kids. You can spend those time doing that. And like, we just want to communicate that to everybody else. Like, you can do this. Like, and I believe real estate's probably the single best way to get there. You know, but there's a, you know, if you don't

like real estate, go do business or, you know, go sell Girl Scout cookies or whatever. But like, work towards it. Live proactively. Go scout cookies as a path to financial independence. I would love to see somebody. Oh my gosh. I'm sure. accomplish that. I'm sure it's possible. Yeah, it's called the Girl Scouts of America. Yeah, actually, they make a lot of money.

So anyway, yeah, you know, live proactively, pursue financial freedom. So when you have kids or maybe already have kids or maybe a grandkids coming up, like you can spend that time with them and not have some boss telling you, no, you can't go, you can't do this, you can't do this. So get up there, hustle, do it. And that is today's quick tip. Quick tip. You like that?

That was a quick tip. That is quick tip. But it is also, what, 30 days into a 90-day challenge? The official quick tip is, yeah, we are 30 days in roughly. into the 90 day challenge, which we hosted a month ago. I hosted a special podcast. There's 60 days left in the year. There's 60 days left in the year, which means if you're trying to do a big goal by the end of the year,

take a look at your goals right now, say, where am I on track? And if not, you know, step on the gas and get there. And if you're ahead of pace and double your goal. So 60 days left, crush it. Awesome, awesome, awesome. Cool, man. Well, today, we've got a cool show today. I'm excited about this.

Today's show is not going to appeal to everybody. I do think this is more of a newbie slash millennial show, to be fair. All right. So like, what's a millennial? Is like 30? Am I a millennial at 32? I actually think it's 35 and under is technically what it is. But I'd say you could, you could qualify for this one.

Based on mentality alone. I get trophies just for participating. Yes. Yes. Yes, you do. Yes. All right. So yeah, anybody under like who's younger-ish, like under 35, probably love this.

If you're older, you're going to get a lot out of this too because there's a lot of wisdom in our guest today talks about house hacking, talks about frugality, talks about how to make more income. Actually, you know that he talked about this car rental service thingy and like, oh, it's crazy. My mind just is like spinning out, not from, I'm not going to rent out my car necessarily, but like the idea of like when I travel somewhere, I'm going to totally start doing that just renting people's cars. Oh, that's not a bad idea. Yeah, right? Yeah, so we've got to kind of life hacking, right? Yeah, I mean, I don't know if the, you know, but that's kind of how we how we look at it. And so, yeah, it's great, fascinating.

And, you know, the show is not just for those folks. Like, if you're a parent, like, you should listen because, you know, there's some good pearls of wisdom that you could pass along to your kids or your grandkids, things like that. So, guys, this is show 252 of the Bigger Pockets podcast. Check out the show notes at biggerpockets.com slash show 252. Also, we do ask from time to time for your help in spreading the word on the Bigger Pockets podcast. From time to time. Often. From often?

Okay, 80% give or take the show. It's probably 85 or 90. So we're asking for your help in spreading the word. And what we want from you is to leave us a rating review on iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitch, or wherever you're listening to the show, leave us a rating review. Let us know how we're doing. Also, if you have never told your friends, your family, your co-workers about the podcast, tell them, share it on social media.

This show can change people's lives. We see it day in and day out. And, you know, if you're finding value, then let everyone else know. The more people who can live the life that you want to live and you want your friends and family to live, the better. Yep. So, yeah. Is that it, man? Should we do this?

Let's do it. Let's bring him in. All right, guys, today's guest is Craig Curlop. Craig is an employee here at Bigger Pock. Team member, Josh, team member. He is a team member. And he is house hacking and life hacking and just doing all sorts of really interesting stuff. So let's bring him in.

All right, Craig, welcome to the show, man. It's good to have you, man. Hey, thanks for being here, man. Dreams really do come true. I like how he says, what a master plan. I like he says, thanks for being here. Like, this is Craig's show, which we all know it is. Yeah, it is a Craig.

We should actually rename the podcast, I think. Instead of the bigger podcast podcast, the Craig podcast. The Craig podcast. It's got a nice ring to it. This. is the Craig's podcast. So, what are we? 52.

252. Wow. All right, man. So as we mentioned in the opening, Craig, you work for bigger pockets and you are doing all sorts of really interesting stuff for somebody your age. You know, when you told us what you did, which we've dubbed life hacking, we're like, we got to get this guy in the show so other people can just kind of hear what you're talking about. So let's dive in and get in.

into this. How? Why? What's the story about you and real estate? Like, how did you, how did you, how did you get this journey into this life hacking thing? Yeah. So, to be honest, I actually never thought, three years ago, if you told me that I was going to be in real estate, I would say you're an absolute liar. You know, I started out. I don't, you, you should watch yourself. Everything I said before that this is a safe place. Not true. Not sure anymore. Well, in that case, I mean, I'm just going to go to Grant Cardone times 10. Yeah, but no, so I started basically, I graduated college and I was working out in Silicon Valley. And, you know, I didn't, I didn't love it, didn't love the lifestyle or anything like that.

It really hit me when it was probably last, last June. And I was, I was with, I had like a girlfriend at the time. And we were, you know, we were, it was like a Sunday night. And it was the last time I was going to see her for a really long time. And my boss calls me. And he basically tells me that, hey, you know, to get this thing out by. tomorrow morning, 8 a.m. Eastern time. And I'm on the West Coast, right? So effectively, I had to get that done tonight. And it was the last time I was going to see this girl for a while. So I felt,

I feel like that was kind of like a like a preview of like the rest of my life. If I was going to stay in that field. So from there, I was like, okay, there has to be a better way out. And so I, I looked up real estate basically, right? And bigger pockets comes up. And I said, no, bigger pockets is a total shame. No way. This is this is this can't be true. Wow. Whoa. Whoa. This is my first, my first thought of real estate because that's kind of my, what I thought of real estate investors before. And so I type in on Amazon.com, real estate book.

And the book on rental property investing comes up. I buy that book. I read it. And as I was reading it, I noticed that, you know, they were touting bigger pockets all the time. And I was like, oh, if they're touting it in this book, it must be real. It must be legit. So I went on and, and there it goes.

You know, it kind of changed my life. I started reading the articles. Lipp Brand. I watched a ton of your webinars. Nice. I didn't know any of this. This is funny. I didn't either.

Yeah, no, I've got like vigorous notes of like 40 of your webinars. And then I realized that I was writing the same thing over and over. And I was like, okay, maybe I should have stopped at 10 or 20, but you know, it got into my brain. That's awesome. And what really sealed the deal for me is I was in the Bay Area. Like I said, and there was this Bay Area Summit, which I actually just came back from this past weekend. But last year I went and after listening to those guys and meeting all those people, I kind of lit a fire under my butt.

And I was like, I'm doing this. It's it. And so, you know, for the next three or four months, I did my research. I took a little trip. Then I came back from the trip and I applied to 250 jobs that next weekend. And one of them was bigger pockets. Wait, wait a second. Hold on.

Hold on a second here. Because when I hired you, you led me to believe that this was the only job that you applied to. I'm a good actor, aren't I? Wow. Wow. Wow, false pretenses. Jeez, man. We can put the pass behind us.

I don't know about that. Let's dive into this for a second. You actually applied to 250 different jobs. Yeah, I was reading Grant Cardone's 10X. My original goal was 25 that weekend, but then I was like, you know, 10x 250. And so I, you know, honestly, 249 of those were in Florida because I originally thought I wanted to start investing in Florida. But then I saw Bigger Pockett was hiring for a position that I thought I was qualified for. And I said, there's no way to get this go.

So I got the one job I applied for in Denver. And here we are today. Wow. All right. So you're here. You work for BP, which is great. But that means nothing. Now he has vigorous notes.

What do you do for BP in case people are curious? Like, what is it your role? Yeah. So I'm the finance guy here. Basically, I, you know, I put together the model, the financial model, the projections. I'm going to be looking for new revenue opportunities. in the next few months, all that kind of stuff. All the finance stuff.

I'm a numbers guy. Numbers guy. Good. Well, we need numbers guy. I know like, I mean, any business like that, like that's not my strong suit. That's not, I don't think that's Josh's strong suit. Like, you got to have that guy. So good job.

Thank you for being here. What is Josh's strong suit? I don't know. I'm still trying to figure that one out. Oh, damn. We've got a few years trying to figure this out. Yeah, we're working on it. We're working on it.

You are heeding the advice to go, go bold on your boss. Well, you got to save. Look at you, man. Good for you. Good for you. All right, so let's dive into this, right? You've got this job. You just told us the sob story about how you, you know, left San Francisco and you came here to Colorado, which was a good move, by the way. And now what, right? I mean, you've got 40 webinars worth of vigorous notes. When do you decide to pull the trigger? Do you pull the trigger? Yeah. So once I moved out here, basically, I had a list of things to do. And, you know, the first thing in my list was to buy a property. And so, you know, that was like my one thing, as Gary Keller would say. So I engaged, I talked to a bunch of agents. I talked to a bunch of lenders, probably about five or six of each, figured out which one would work for me the best. And from there, you know, I had properties coming in every day. I was looking at each one, going to see each one. And one came across my desk. That looked interesting to me. You know, it was a duplex, about a mile and a half from the office, completely renovated. So I wouldn't have to do too much work to it. I could.

could focus on the thing I came here to do, which was work for bigger pockets. And I could still house hack it. And so that's kind of what I put an offer on it. And I actually got it below listing price in Denver, which for those of you who know, the Denver market is kind of unheard of at this time. And yeah, everything went fairly smoothly. All right. For those people, you said the word house hack it.

For those people, not a lot of people know what that means, but for those who are, this is the first time hearing that phrase house hacking. What is that? What do you mean by that? Yeah. So house hacking is a term that bigger pockets coined. I believe. I think it was Brandon that actually coined it.

In fact, I know it was Brandon that coined it. I don't know. That's why he's telling us to explain it. He wants a little bit of the credit. No, I didn't say a word. I wasn't going to go there. You know? Josh is like my wingman.

It's great. We share Brandon from time to time. When intelligent things come out, at least. That's what, when Brandon says intelligent things, right? He is good. I like this guy. All right. Anyway, so house hacking is what?

So house hacking is when you when you buy a duplex, triplex, a small multifamily with a presumably a small down payment loan, such as I got 3.5% FHA and it's owner occupied. And so you're living in one unit and renting out the other. So you have some of the tenants helping you out pay your mortgage. Or ideally they are paying your mortgage. So you get to live for free while building equity in the property. And you also gain a lot of that landlording experience and all that kind of stuff.

And it's just a it's a great way to start out as your first property. Love it. All right. So you, I liked a lot of what you said, especially the part where you ripped on Brandon. But the interesting thing you said was when you came out to Colorado, you had a list of things you had to accomplish. And number one on that list was I need to buy a rental property, right? That's great. I think that's the kind of mindset that you need in order to actually buy a rental property.

I mean, it's so easy to look at the landscape and say, oh, you know, I'm going to buy a property one day. You know, I really want to buy a property. I should buy a property. It's very different than saying, you know what? I read the one thing, which is not necessary, but, okay, I read this book. This book told me to prioritize my life. And so I said, my one thing right now is going to be to find this property. And that's what you did.

So for those newbies who might be stuck or long. or confused, like, hey, you know, floating around trying to figure out how to shift over to that mindset. Do you have any advice for them? Yeah, you know, I would say just take it one step at a time, really. I mean, the first step to buying a property is to find a lender and to find an agent. Those are the two guys you need bigger pockets, a lot of people on there. So you need to build out this whole team. To buy a house hack, you don't need a whole team.

You need a lender and you need an agent. And once you get those guys, they're going to start sending you properties. They're going to start following up with you. And now you're kind of accountable. You're holding, those guys are holding you accountable to get this deal done. And so once you start getting other people involved, then you know it's the real deal. So I would say just take that first step in engaging, engaging, engaging the agent. I love that because like, yeah, like from what most people do, they learn, they read, they, you know, they have all this things.

But nothing really drives them to move forward. But as soon as you have that agent, especially, like all of a sudden, then you start getting deals. I mean, if it's a good agent, they're following up with you, they're encouraging you, they're answering questions. it becomes a lot more legit there. So I want to actually just throw on a, like, I don't know, a challenge to everybody listen to this right now. But if you do not have an agent right now, if you're trying to get at your first deal,

you want to buy a real estate property, maybe you want a house hack like Craig here, and you don't have an agent, like stop right now what you're doing. If you're driving, pull over the side of the road, or, you know, be safe. Pause this for a second. Go on Facebook and ask your family and friends

for a recommendation for an agent. Like, it's the easiest way to find an agent. Just ask for recommendations from everybody on Facebook. You'll find a bunch. They'll offer you a bunch of suggestions of people. and then sit down and talk with them. So on that note, Craig, what did they say? When somebody goes in terms of find an agent, how did you find a good one?

What kind of questions do you ask? You know, how do you go about that? So honestly, the way I did it was I asked some people here in Denver that I knew. And I also went on bigger pockets and I went to the message board. And I just reached out and message say, hey, I'm interested in buying a property. Would you mind meeting for coffee? And, you know, some of the questions you ask are just, how many deals have you done? How long have you been an agent?

I like to ask if they're an investor themselves. what are some things they look for in property, stuff like that. Nothing crazy. And also you want to get a feel for, you want to be able to get along with this person too. So, you know, make sure that you guys are, you know, amicable with each other. And yeah, it's nothing, nothing too crazy. So this is how you went and found an agent. And I think it's great advice, right?

So you did all that. What about a lender? You said lender was the other thing essential for getting going on a house hack. How do you find a good lender as a newbie real estate investor? So again, I think the number one way is just through recommendations. So if you know anyone else who is a landlord or who has purchased a property, go ask them, see how their lender was. Or you can go on bigger pockets again and just reach out and say, hey, I'm looking for a lender in X, Y, Z area.

And there will be a lot of lenders coming to you and field those calls. Don't just ask one lender. Even though these loans get sold off to Fannie and Freddie, you'd be surprised what different lenders can do for you. So just make sure that you guys do your research and do your diligence. get five or six different lenders and see what they can offer you. I will offer one caveat there. Keep in mind, like that the marketplace on bigger pockets,

just like give them more detail. That's where you guys want to go. If you guys are looking for a lender, instead of doing, you know, spamming all the forums, the marketplace is where that's done. So go to the marketplace and say, hey, I'm looking for a lender in this area as they may have your recommendations,

and you'll find some good connections that way. So cool. Hold on. So you'll find the connections. But how do you know if somebody's actually legit? How do you know if somebody's good? How do you know if you found the right one as somebody who may not know what you're doing? To figure out which lender is right for you, basically you have to have the criteria looking for.

One, again, I like people that I can kind of get along with, which I know may be hard to find. But, you know, there are a few out people out there. The other thing is, you know, I was really looking for kind of like the cheapest, the cheapest loan. And so, you know, I was talking to two or three different lenders at the end. You know, after getting prequalified and all of that. And, you know, they were, they were all very, very close. They all offered me the same rate and they all offered me very similar to things. But, you know, this guy who I had like the best relationship with that I ended up going through with at the end.

And so that's kind of, you know, he was, he answered all of my dumb questions, you know, and don't be afraid to ask those dumb questions either. You know, these guys are are pros at first time home buyer, you know, situations. So ask the questions and they'll answer them and they won't make you feel stupid. Awesome. Speaking of stupid questions, I have one that I think may be a stupid question. But if you're shopping around for lenders, does that potentially hurt your credit? So you can, you will get one hard credit pull that will affect your credit score.

But if you shop around for five or six, it will only count once. As long as you do it within a 30 day period, it will only count as one hard credit pull. So don't worry about your credit score in that regard. Yeah. Nice. By the way, I like what you said there about like, you went with the guy you had the best relationship with. Here's what I've always found with lending is that almost every lender can do the same thing because they're all abiding generally, at least in the residential area, they're all abiding

by the same Fannie Mae Friday Mac guidelines. The question is what lender is going to be the guy that you, that is ambitious enough to work through the process and that you get along with well, it isn't going to leave you hanging. You know, like, I've had some lenders that, you know, like, it'll be six months just trying to refinance a property. And other guys will do it in 35, 40 days. And it's simply because some are more ambitious, some are actually continually

really kick the ball down the field. We're other ones that are just, you know, they're sitting on their yacht or whatever, you know, or overworked with too many projects. Again, it's all about the lender, not necessarily like the, they all do the same thing. Same rates, same terms, all that. Awesome. Awesome. All right.

So, Craig, what did what did the numbers actually look like? And why house hack versus just like renting an apartment or, you know, buying a house to live in or a condo or something? So I wanted a house hack one because, again, wanted the landlord experience and, you know, my, my intentions are to, you know, buy a property one or two a year each year for the next forever. So that's really why I wanted the house hack and because of the low down, the low down payment and how you can use some of the rental income to help you qualify for that mortgage. So that was why I went with the house hack of the

duplex. Do you want to go into the numbers now? Yeah, let's, let's dive in on that. So, yeah, so the numbers, I purchased a property for $385,000. $3.5% down. down after closing costs. I was, you know, I was all in for just on just under $20,000. And there wasn't any work needed or anything like that. I got, I closed on June 16th at 9 a.m. And I had a lease. How many seconds? 9 a.m. and 42 seconds. And I had a lease signed at noon that same day. Wow. So I was, I was working through, you know, finding a tenant during the closing process. Now, I warn you, I recommend that everyone do that. So you,

limit your vacancy time. However, just be careful because you cannot have a lease signed before you own the property. So make sure that lease signing comes after you close on the property. It's a really good tip. Yeah, that's awesome. I had never heard of anybody doing it before. Awesome tips. So I'm going to start doing that like when I buy property. Now, granted, most of my properties are rehabs. Yours was already completed, right? So that makes the biggest difference there. Yeah, mine was already completed. So it definitely makes a little bit easier. You could, you know, you could still show it to them and say, hey, this is going to be totally rehab. whatever and maybe that will help, maybe not.

But yeah. On the same note, when I'm rehabbing a property, I think it's a good idea. Like you start getting people interested just by doing work on it. People see works being done and they ask about it. And, you know, I've had times where I've been remodeling a property and then got it rented before ever finished the rehab. So that's, again, whatever you can do to minimize that vacancy. Like, I don't think people realize, like vacancy.

I wrote a blog post a long time ago called like vacancy is like the silent killer of a real estate deal. That's a cost. It is a huge cost. Yeah. I mean, if you have five or 10 percent of, you know, you know, you have five or ten percent of Like if you, if you go an extra month long on a vacancy, I mean, that's almost 10% of your entire income for the year. And your expenses are still running that same time.

So sometimes even more expenses because you've got to pay the water sewer, garbage, all that stuff during that time. So anyway. So let's go. Go ahead. Yeah. Sorry. Well, if you're in a flip, too, it kind of, or if you're fixing it up, you know, a lot of times the tenants are seeing you do the work and they're going to know they're getting a new property or not maybe a new property. But a remodeled.

A lot of the things, yeah, remodeled property. And a lot of them like that, they want to be the first one. one end of that new property, you know, so. Yeah, they don't have to use somebody else's toilet. You. Yeah, exactly. All right. So let's talk about, I want to dig in the numbers a little bit more.

So what are, you bought it for 385. You did an FHA loan, which is three and a half percent down. What was your mortgage payment? And then what are you renting the other half out for the other side? So my, my PITI is just shy of 2,300. And PITI is what? It's, principal, principal interest, taxes, and insurance. All right.

So the whole payment. So the whole payment is about $2,300. Okay. Now, I rent the top out for $1,750. Okay. And so, you know, there's a little bit of spread there that I would need to cover. And so basically where it's just shy of $500. And so where that comes from is I also Airbnb out my room in my property.

And so the difference there, that more than makes up the difference of that, you know, $500 or so bucks that I'm losing there. Okay, so we want to talk about that, right? We do. And before we do, like, I want people to understand this unit because I haven't seen the unit, but I know the building. I know your neighbor. So the upstairs unit is actually ground level. The downstairs unit that you talk about, which is the unit that you're living in, is subterranean, right? You're living underground in a cave.

Correct. There's actually bats hanging from my ceiling of the top. I'm Batman. Yeah. And so the best unit you're currently running out, right? And then you're living in the less good unit. And on top of living in the less good unit, you're Airbnb being it. And so how does that work?

How do you Airbnb a unit that you're living in? Is it a two-bedroom, one-bedroom? What is that? So, yeah, no, so it's, so they're both one-bedroom apartments, one-bed, one-bath. And so basically what I've done is I've Airbnbed out my bedroom. and I've made a pseudo bedroom out of my living room. And so I've put up, I put up like, you know, some, some room dividers and a curtain and all that kind of stuff.

And a nice bed. Like, I still sleep very comfortably. And so I'm able to Airbnb out my bedroom, sleep in the living room, and, you know, still have enough space for everything. And, you know, that, you know, the Airbnb brings me in. I've only been doing it for about, you know, four months now. but on average it's bringing in about 1,100 a month. So, you know, and that's, that's for a shared space.

Is that weird having people stay in like with you like that? Is it weird for them? Is it weird for you? So, honestly, I thought it would be weird at first. But I actually love it because I get to meet people. It's really cool people traveling from all around the world, right? So I just had a woman from Germany stay in my place, a couple from Australia. So I'm meeting like awesome people.

And it's my favorite part. I actually love it. I have no problem sleeping, you know, out in the living room. Like, sure, the first day may have been uncomfortable, but, you know, it's all about, like, getting out of your comfort zone, right? Once you get after the fourth, fifth day, now I almost prefer to sleep in the living room. Last night, no one was there. Last night, no one was there.

I slept in my living room. That's fun. Wow. That's awesome. So you're living in the living room. Your Airbnb is bringing in $1,100 bucks a month. Your top units ticking in 1750. So you're at 20.

$2,900, call it a month. Your PITI is $2,300. Your vacancy rate, well, I mean, you factor all that in. You're in the black. You're living for free.

Yeah. I mean, living for free, even netting a little bit. Yeah. Just because the tenants upstairs actually signed a two-year lease. So,

you know, I won't be having vacancy for two years, hopefully, fingers crossed. Yeah. And, you know, it's just those Airbnb stuff that I have to kind of worry about,

which has been fine. Wow. I'm assuming you have friends. I've never seen any of them, but I'm assuming you have friends. They're in the places. What do they say? Do they come over? And if not, like, what do they say?

Like, how does this, you know, conversation go with your, with your pals, like, about this whole setup that you got going on there? And, yeah, I'm just curious how people respond. Yeah. So most people think I'm nuts, which is probably half true. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, the way I kind of look at it is I'm doing things that people aren't doing so I can kind of live a life that I want to live in a very short amount of time. Sure. Right.

Like I really want to get on that fast track to financial freedom. And, you know, just by renting or by if I were to buy the price and not rent it out, you know, I'd be losing potential $1,100 a month. You know what I mean? So that's just putting me on the fast track to financial freedom. And so that's kind of how I see it. Now, I don't really have people come over my place. I go to their place, which I prefer anyway. And also, it helps me, it kind of forcing me to keep the place clean.

So that also. This must be great for your dating life. Oh, great. Yeah. The ladies love coming, coming over and, yeah, seeing someone else, seeing someone else there as well. Seeing the German couple. Yeah, the German couple. That's funny.

All right. So, okay. So, I mean, it's a cool strategy, right? You're maximizing every bit of income you can make out of that place. What about, I mean, a lot of people are listening to this right now going, look, I'm okay with a house hack. I'm okay by a duplex or triplex and live in one unit, but I'm not going to have somebody live with me. So I'm going to shut this podcast off right now because I just can't do that. So for those people who are not going to rent out their bedroom, right? Let's talk about that for a minute. Is it a bad idea in your opinion to house hack, even if you can't live for free? If you had to pay that $500 or $600 a month, personally is would you still do it and why? Yeah. I mean, absolutely, right? So,

you know, a comparable rent in Denver for a one bedroom apartment is probably going to go for 12 or 1,300 bucks. So I'm paying $500 in rent, you know, in rent to myself. Right. So I am paying myself.

And so, you know, I'm still building, I'm building equity in the property as I make those, as I make those rental payments to myself. So it makes tons and tons of sense to do this either way, even if you don't want to, you know, do what I'm doing and live in your living room, which is understandable. Yeah. So the cost to you to do this, let's say you don't have a roommate or several per month.

It's cheaper than having a condo. It's cheaper than renting out somebody else's apartment. It just net puts you ahead, right? Yeah, 100%. Awesome. Awesome. Okay, cool. Well, that's great.

Congrats on the success. I couldn't do it. Maybe I could have done it at your age. And how old are you, by the way? I'm 24. So that's kind of another thing is I think everybody has a unique advantage in their life. And you kind of have to. And I looked at mine and I said, you know what?

I'm young. I'm single. And I'm a guy. So I have absolutely no problem taking advantage of all of those situations and doing what I'm doing right now. And as my life changes, I'm absolutely going to not be doing this for the rest of my life. And you say the guy thing because as a female, there's some safety concern. there potentially, right? Yeah, there are some safety concerns. And, you know, I'm not saying that females

cannot do this. If you're a female, you absolutely can do this. It's just a matter of if you, if you feel safe, potentially defending yourself if a stranger does come in your home. Now, Airbnb does a very good job at screening all of their guests and all of that. And I have never had the slightest problem, but I've never heard of anyone have a problem. But just in the event there is one, you know, just be careful. Really quick, before we go on to the next stuff, Airbnb, like Airbnb, there are certain cities that are pretty hardcore with what you can and can't do with Airbnb. And I know Denver happens to be one of them. I believe in Denver, you're only allowed to rent out a property once in a 30-day period. I think I'm not butchering that factoid. How do you get around that?

And is that true? So, yeah, that's correct. In Denver, you cannot basically short-term rentals. They don't really allow you do short-term rentals unless you are living in the property. So even that property, even the duplex, the first half of it, the top half, I would not be able to put that on Airbnb, unless it's for 30 days or more. Got it. So that's the way Denver works. But since it's in my primary residence and I live there, there's no issue with the Airbnb laws here. Are you, I know you were just home with your family for a couple of weeks. Are you running out the place while you're out of town as well, fully running it out? Yep. So I'm renting it out when I'm out of town. It was pretty much full the whole time I was gone. And you know, I just have, you

I have a cleaning lady come in and check on the place and obviously clean it, clean the sheets, all that kind of stuff. And she gives me an update, sends me some pictures when she's done. I issue her her payment and we're on to the next guest. How did you find the cleaning lady? How did I find this cleaning lady? I think I just went on Craigslist and I looked at a few of them. I responded.

He was, you know, I do a good job. Good job, Josh. Thank you. Oh, Josh, I got you. Josh, you lost me on that one there. I was like, yeah, I just called Josh up and he came over to clean. He does all my cleaning as well. He's really helpful.

Yeah, he is pretty good, isn't he? Yeah, so you went on Craigslist. That's cool. Yes. So I went on Craigslist, you know, again, talk to three or four different, everyone I talked to, which is three or four different cleaning ladies. And, you know, I kind of went with the best price. I met with a few of them, called them.

And just whatever one I felt I got the best feeling from was the one I picked. And also I would recommend if you are doing this, ask for recommendations too and call those recommendations. And so make sure that she has customers and make sure that she is a like, you know, a good human being because she's going to be in your apartment with your stuff there. So there you go. Yeah. Yeah. And there might be some hees occasionally as well, obviously. But yeah.

So all right. You're house hacking. And I use the term life hack at the upfront. So you're doing some pretty interesting stuff here, right? I mean, you're running the place out when you're gone. You're running your place out while you're there. You're obviously, you've got tenants. What else?

Why would I say you're life hacking? You're doing something next level here, right? I mean, you're taking some of your liabilities and using those to your advantage as well, aren't you? Yeah, right. So typical rich, dad, poor dad mantra, right? is if you haven't a quote unquote, anything that's taking money out of your pocket, it's a liability. If it's putting money in your pocket, it's an asset. And so I was, because I bought this property a mile

and a half from work, I was riding my bike to work every day. And as I ride my bike, I would drive by my car. And my car was just sitting in the driveway. And I'm still paying insurance for it. I'm still paying, you know, some maintenance on it, whatever it is. And so that was a liability to me. So I decided I need to figure like how can I make money out of this car? And so how can I turn this liability into an asset? And there, there's a site out there called Turo, T-U-R-O. And basically what that is, it's an Airbnb buffer cars. And so I put my, listed my car up on that site. And now I am renting my car out as well. That's awesome. What do you get for a car rental? So a car rental, obviously, it's a little bit less than a Airbnb. But for that, on the peak months where it's about like seven to

$800 a month. Wow. And do people rent? What are they renting it for? They just don't want to rent from like a, you know, enterprise or something. Yeah. Well, so it's, it's much cheaper than like an enterprise or whatever that is, right? And a lot in in there, especially for those who are under 25, they don't have the huge under 25 fees. There's a small fee, but not not significant. And so I think it goes to be like, it depends, you know, it changes, but it's between, typically between $35 and $45 a day. And so, yeah, and also it's, you know, I mean, I've got it, it's a Toyota Prius, so it's great on gas, good for around the city. I always advise people not to drive in the mountains with it because they probably won't come back. But that was my old car. Yeah, I used to have

that car. So you, you have this app, right? People will literally go pick up your vehicle. from in front of your home, then take it from the street, and they return it, you know, whenever the next day, same day, and you get your 35,

40, 45 bucks put in your account. Yeah, sometimes it's a couple weeks. It ranges from a day to a couple of weeks. It could even be a month if they wanted to. Wow. Yeah.

So the, yeah. Now, does Turo, you know, have guarantees, you know, if somebody's going to,

you know, start smoking in your car or, you know, mess it up. I mean, I'm assuming they've, they've got all the insurance stuff and everything else kind of handled, right?

Yeah, they have all the insurance handled. You can take pictures before and after and your, the driver is highly encouraged to take pictures before and after. And so, you know, if there's any differences in the car from each ride, the pictures will show it or you go in and see it. And then you can file a claim through Toro and, you know, they'll cover you. Like, without the listings, the car listings, Turo wouldn't exist. So they need to protect those car, the people who list the cars.

Have you had any better experiences at all that you've had to make a claim? now. No, I haven't had any bad experiences with Turo or drivers. Yeah, it's been no, I mean, some drivers are more of a pain than the others. They get, especially the first time drivers, they can be a little bit, a little bit scared or a little bit weary of what's going on. But once they realize, once they're done, they're usually like, oh, this is much easier than I expected. This is great. Thank you so much. And most people are very happy. Yeah. So you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're $1,100 bucks a month on your Airbnb, $1,000, $1,50, and rank. You got some of your costs on the property.

Then you're running this car out for $7 to $800 a month. And I pay you $6 a day. I mean, like, this sounds pretty good. Yeah, $6 a day. I think I might need a raise sometimes, see. What do you think? But, I mean, that's awesome, man. At 24, you've literally figured out a way to build your life.

And in a way where, you know, it's not too obstructive to how you want to live. and you're generating all this income off of your just everyday doings, right, and happenings. And that's amazing. Are you, are you, is there like an app to rent out your clothes that you're also doing? I mean, yeah, I was looking to try to rent out my clothes. I don't know if anyone wants my underwear, but we can see. I'm going to throw it. You'll take it.

There's some holes in it. If that's okay. Oh, come on. That's a little too far. Awesome, man. There's no such thing, Josh. No such thing. There really isn't.

Is that the extent of the life hacking? I think the extent of the life hacking would be that, you know, I go live under a bridge with, you know, in my soup bag or in a tent. But I mean, you're also frugal, right? I forgot about that part. Like, you're able to put away a ton of, ton of cash because not only are you doing all this stuff, but you're, you're super frugal in just everything that you do, right? Yeah, so I'm super frugal.

I don't go out to eat much. I don't drink. You know, I kind of stick to, like, what it is what it is. And sometimes, you know, and I still do go out. Don't get me wrong. Like I think having fun is a great part of life and I love to travel and do all those things. And I do spend money, but I just kind of, I'm a little more strategic about how I spend my money and what I spend my money on and all that kind of stuff. So that's awesome. That's awesome. So that's great. This is very set for lifeish, isn't it? Yeah, it is very set for lifeish.

And it's a great. I mean, you guys should all, if you haven't read that book yet, what are you guys doing? That's kind of the first step, right? Yeah. You guys going to get on bigger podcast right now and buy that book. What I love about Seth for Life, the book that, you know, Scott Shrench wrote is that it kind of opens up the idea that like a lot of like financial gurus out there are saying, you know, stop drinking someone to Starbucks, you know, like, you know, stop drinking or eating avocado toast. You know, that's why millennials are all broke is because of avocado toast or whatever, right? Yeah, I keep here.

I don't even know what that is. I don't even know either. But I, there's a big article about it recently. But the truth is like, it's not the little things typically that are making people broke and poor. It's their massive house payment is the main thing, followed by their massive car payment. Like those two things alone and then the insurance that comes with that. It's those things that drive people. So if you can maximize just a few areas of your life or minimize a few areas of your life, you can still enjoy the fun things in life. You just find a way to not have that massive

$3,000, $5,000 a month payment just to live. But it's not just that, right? I mean, like, if you, like Craig, I see Craig every day in the kitchen, like cutting up. his own lunch, right? He cooks his dinner and he preps his lunch the next day, which saves him, you know, 10 to 12 bucks a day on dining out. We got a lot of people here in the office who they eat every single, they eat out every day, right? And Craig is always eating his own food. Like, that's, that's a lot of money. I mean, you know, it adds up if you do that. You know, you're talking two to three bucks versus 12, 14, whatever it is, right? So it's, it's the whole lifestyle in general, right? It's looking at everything that you do. It's, you know,

my wife doesn't drink alcohol, right? So I pretty much stopped drinking alcohol. When I would go out with my friends and we'd split the check, the difference between my check and their check is, you know, 30, 40, 50 bucks per meal. Oh, yeah. Because they're paying for booze. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, one thing kind of how I looked at it too was, you know, you go out to eat

and you're spending 12 bucks and you say maybe one of my meals costs four bucks, right? And I'm probably getting the equivalent amount of food, if not more, with my meal. And I just don't think there's any way in hell that their food is three times better than my food. So that's how I look at it is it's not worth going out to eat, you know? Yeah. So it's just everything, right? I mean, at the end of the day, the frugality is, it doesn't mean being cheap. Like, I've never seen Craig be cheap.

You know, he, but it's, you know, hey, I'm going to, I'm going to think about how I, how I, how I construct my life. I'm going to live close to work, hop on a bike, get exercise every single day, right? Get fit, get in shape, and, you know, save on gas and save on car maintenance. And then, you know, use the car as for big trips or other things that I need. It's just a mindset thing. That's all, isn't it? Yeah. The way I look at it, the way I think life is, it's 10% what happens and 90% how you think of it, where your mindset is. And so as long as you can get your head right, you can kind of, you can do anything, really. It's just kind of taking things one step at a time.

And, you know, maybe you're not doing all the things all at once, right? Or maybe you're not, you don't stop drinking or stop going out to eat all the time. Maybe you only go out to eat two times a week. And then after that becomes more comfortable for you, you go out to eat one time a week. And then you just slowly kind of wane off of it. Going cold turkey is extremely, it's much more harder than just kind of weaning off. Yeah. Awesome.

Makes sense. So here's a big question kind of to wrap up this part of the podcast. Why? Why? Why be frugal? Why cut your expenses? Why not eat the avocado toast or maybe you do? Why house hack? I mean, why can't we just enjoy life and just live and spend our money? We make a certain amount with spend that much. Like, what's the point? What are you trying to do here? It all boils down to just achieving that financial freedom at a relatively early age, right? So in your late 20s, early 30s and being able to kind of spend the rest of your life doing whatever it is that you want to do, you know, travel, brandy. like you with your daughter, right? Like you wanted to be able to see her first steps and all that. Like I want to be able to see my kids first steps, go to all their plays,

attend all their baseball games, do all these things that, you know, a lot of parents aren't able to do because, oh, they have to work or, oh, they got to do this. They got to do that. Like, you got to, I think you have to figure out what's the most important thing in your life and figure out how you can, you know, do those most important things to you. How are you going to do that? Because, you know, you better work. You got to work in bigger pockets forever.

I go, yeah, forever, forever, forever. No, no, no, no, I'm just kidding. And like Brandon, we give him the flexibility to do that stuff, right? I mean, that's one of the nice things here. But what does your plan look like, right? You're 24. You're in your first duplex. I know, I know you well enough to know you have a plan, right?

So you didn't just say, hey, I'm going to go and one thing, get that first duplex, and then I'm done. You know the next six steps that you've got in mind. So what are those and how do you construct this, this plan for yourself? So my next step now is just, you know, keep saving, saving, saving and, you know, kind of figuring out other ways that I can make additional income. And, you know, just to save up for that next down payment on the next house hack or next property. And, you know, do that. My goal is to be able to double my units next year and the year after.

So, you know, go from two this year to four next year to eight the year after that. You know, then if, you know, and then you have all your investments working for you, too. So then you can save and, you know, and theoretically, hopefully I might have to, you know, talk to Josh a little more, but hopefully I'll be making a little bit more in the next couple of years as well. And then obviously I'll be able to save more. And, you know, it kind of all works on itself where to the point where, you know, you can easy, you know, you're saving for a down payment in a couple of months. And, you know, you can buy two, three, four properties a year. And as long as they're cash flowing properties, you know, once that passive income stream, you know, exceeds my expenses, that's kind of when you're free. So at 30, you're going to be retired, basically, living off of your real estate and car rental service.

I don't know if I'll be doing the car rental service then. But yeah, I'd like to be financially free by 30. And that doesn't mean I'll be retired sitting at home with a bag of potato chips, watching dancing with the stars or whatever. But I'll be able to pursue my passions, right? Like I'll be able to do what I love to do. And even if I'm doing something, making 20 or 30 grand a year, that won't matter because I'll have enough money through my, you know, through my rental income.

That's awesome. Absolutely brilliant. Somebody has clearly been to a bigger pockets webinar before. It once or totally. All right. So, I don't know. All right. So, man, good stuff, like all around good stuff. Like, and I agree so much with like that whole idea.

Like, if you can minimize your expenses now, like, it really opens up the world to be able to do really amazing things later. You don't have to live, like, you know, house hack forever. You don't have to do anything that forever. But it's a sacrifice. for a short amount of time. If you just do it for a while, the rest of your life, you know, like, Dave Ramsey has a quote that says, like, if you live like no one else now, you can live like no one else later, you know, basically like,

it's a short, exactly, right? Yeah, sacrifice a little bit now if you need to. And it's not like, I mean, like, is it really a sacrifice? I mean, it's not like we're like cutting off our right arm or something. Like, like, yeah, it's not even the sacrifice. I enjoy it. I love it. Yeah, I love it. So, I was, when I was, when I was, what, 23, 23, 24, 22, 23, 22, 23, 24, I was living in Los Angeles.

And were there dinosaurs roaming around back then? Wow. Josh was really sad when the last one died off. He was like, he had a lot of tears. He told me. That's right. He's right. Yeah.

It was the last one. He was like, whoa. So, yes, my social security number is one. You're fine. Ha, ha, ha. So I was living. And this was not crazy long ago. It was about almost 20 years.

Yeah. I was like in elementary. school. Diapers. Yeah, pretty much. So. I could talk yet. I was living for like $12,000 to $13,000 a year, right? And that was like right at or about the poverty line. But I was actually, you know, I was having a good life. I was just exceptionally frugal, exceptionally exceptional.

Cheap. Fair enough. I mean, you know, spaghetti and cereal. I mean, that's all I ate, right? I mean, I didn't drive anywhere. I didn't need to go anywhere. Life was really easy. And, you know, obviously not everybody can be in that position. But I think when you're single and young, there's certain things that you can much more easily give up and live without than once you have a spouse or children and things like that. Then you really do need to, you know, take care of those folks. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Take advantage of being young and single. There you go. Awesome. I have one more thing before we get to the fire round. I want to push you a little bit here, Craig. So you mentioned earlier this guy named Grant Cardone, who we recently had on the podcast.

And he wrote a book called The 10x Rule about taking your goals and supersizing them. So when you say you want to buy one property this year and two next year and four the year after units and eight the year after, it's great. I actually love exponential growth. What would it take to buy 20 units next year? 20 units next year? Like what? And should you?

I'm not saying you should, but what would it? Like, well, let's explore that for a minute. Like why why not 10x these goals and quit this job at bigger pockets next year? Screw Josh. I would be so happy for you if you did that. And my life would be a lot easier. What would it take do you think? And have you thought about that?

So, yeah, I have thought about that, actually. And the reason why I don't think it makes a ton of sense is just because I don't think it is a, you know, I would be putting all of my eggs in this real estate. basket in in a time where it seems like the market is is approaching a peak or at a peak. So I think doing that is not wise. And also, in order to do that, I would need to be, I would need to syndicate, get tons and tons of investors and all that kind of stuff. And then I then I have, you know, the responsibility of their money over me.

And, you know, I don't want that. I think, I think a much, an easier route would be just to continue working in bigger pockets, working hard here at bigger pockets and, you know, hoping that compensation will follow after I just work hard. And, you know, I think that is a way, you know, is a way to do it in my opinion. Because I wouldn't have, if I, sure, I could buy 20 properties next year, but they wouldn't be my 20 properties. I would have one property amongst 20 other individuals who would also have properties with me, right? So. All right. Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. And I don't think, I don't think the 10x

model necessarily like the, you know, we argue with Grant this, but he doesn't think people should buy a house and he thinks everyone should just buy massive properties. And that's definitely one way to go. And it's different for everyone. If you like what you do for a job, like, you don't need to escape it now this year. In fact, I would recommend people like, yeah, find a job you love. even if it's not like, you know, find a job that you love and it's flexible, you know, and then go invest in real estate on the side. Like, do what you love to do, do what makes you happy. And if that's syndicating apartments, and great, you should go syndicate apartment buildings. But not, don't worry about it. So lifestyle design, right? Build, build, build.

the life you want to live. Just don't know, I saw a cool graphic or video or something on Facebook yesterday, which was, you know, they're like, hey, the first like, you know, 17 years of your life was all about fun and learning and fun and then you get a job. And then the next 40 years of your life, 50 years of your life is clock in, can't wait for Friday to come, enjoy your weekend as much as you can until Sunday afternoon, which you start getting angry and stressed out about the week and then, you know, go until Friday again, right? And, and, and then suddenly you're, you're now 65, 60, 65, and, you know, you get to enjoy the fruits of your labor on the government's social security and everything else. And, you know, I think we as a society are starting to realize

that that path is less admirable than it used to be, I guess, and especially the newer generations are seeing that. And so, yeah, I mean, build, build life. I mean, build the life you want to live. Use real estate to help you out. Be smart, be frugal. Be creative. I, I, you know, I was in a, I was in a cab last week. I was in an Uber. Sorry, wrong word. I was actually in a lift. I was in a lift last week. And it was the morning. And I started talking to my driver. She was a teacher. She taught, I think it was like eighth grade Spanish. And she would get up in the morning two hours earlier before she normally would have before. She'd drive her car for for lift. After school, she would work for two hours after. She didn't want to work late night with drunk

people and things like that. She just wanted those time blocks and was making, you know, a supplemental income on top of what she wanted to help her move down to Mexico, which was her dream was go down to Mexico and teach down there. And so, yeah, I mean, the world is very different than it used to be. And we can kind of make it our own. And I definitely encourage people to do that, which is why I wanted to have you on the podcast, man. It's a great story. Let's move on to the fireman. The fireman? Fireman. Let's move to the fire for the fire round. When I bought my first rental, I thought collecting rent would be the hard part. Nope. The admin crushed me. Every night was receipts, tax forms, and checking who was late on rent. I kept thinking, if this is one unit,

how do people run 10? Base lane changed that. It's Bigger Pocket's official banking platform that handles expense tracking, financial reporting, rent collection, and even tenants screening, all in one place. It's the system I wish I had from day one. Sign up today at baselane.com slash bigger pockets and get a $100 bonus. Baseline is a financial technology company and is not an FDIC insured bank. Banking banking services provided by Threadbank, member FDIC. If you want a short-term rental, here's something worth knowing. Not all landlord policies are built for your type of property.

And with holiday bookings, chilly weather, and higher guest turnover, having the right coverage is more important than ever. Steadily offers insurance designed specifically for short-term rentals, covering property damage, liability, lost rental income, and even unexpected issues like bedbugs. Steadily works exclusively with real estate investors, so they understand the details that make short-term rentals unique, and they build coverage to match it. A quick review of your rates and coverage every year can help you protect your property and your cash flow. Get a quote in minutes at biggerpockets.com slash landlord insurance. Steadily, rental property insurance for the modern investor. There are two kinds of real estate investors, those who have reviewed their insurance, and those who think that they have.

Most don't realize their coverage wasn't built for how they actually invest. Vacancy periods, rehabs, short-term rentals, or LLC-held properties. These gaps surface only when filing claims. That's why investors work with NREG. They specialize exclusively in real estate investors, understanding portfolios, risk at scale, and cash flow protection. One claim can erase years of returns. If you own a rental property, don't assume you're covered. Have NREG review your insurance with someone who gets investing at NREG.com,

BPod. That's N-R-E-I-G.com slash B-Pod. Wouldn't it be great if your houseplants paid rent while you were out of town? I mean, they've got the whole place to themselves, lots of sunlight, zero responsibilities. But no, they just sit there waiting for someone to spray them with some cool mist like a bunch of leafy loafers. But guess what? Your home actually could be earning you money while you're not there. Airbnb has a great feature called the co-host network, which makes hosting your home so easy.

If you live far from your property or are away for extended periods, you can hire a local co-host to take care of the hosting for you. These co-hosts are vetted locals who already have experience hosting on Airbnb. A co-host can handle all the details like messaging guests, creating your host space, and managing reservations, so everything runs smoothly. It's a practical way to earn a little extra money, maybe even some cash toward your next trip. Plus, you get to share your place with someone traveling to your area while you're off making

memory somewhere else. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. All right, let's jump into this, of course. fire around. These questions come direct out of the bigger pockets forums, which I know, Craig, you're engaged in all the time. So number one, do I need to disclose to my roommates that I'm the landlord and owner? So it sounds like this person is house hacking, like a house or, you know, they rent out their bedrooms. Do I need to tell the roommates that I'm the landlord and the owner?

Or can they just simply pay me assuming that I'm, that I'm just another renter and then I'm the one in charge paying the landlord? So technically, absolutely. You don't need, you do not need. to tell them that you are the landlord and they can you can pretend like you are kind of the head tenant and you're going to just send that money up to someone else. However, when they find out, it might make living a little bit awkward. So I would recommend just, you know, don't be sketchy and just let them know and just let them know what you're doing. And most people aren't out to screw you. So just let them know and tell them what you're doing, why you're doing it. And maybe they'll go out and do the same thing. You know, I mean, I think you got to help people out.

And it will come back and it will come back. Definitely karma. There you go. All right. Easy answer on this one. Is it a good deal to get a duplex for the purpose of house hacking? If you're paying a small amount from your pocket every month to cover all costs, I think we know the answer to that one.

Yeah, 100%. Yes. You're paying yourself. So it's easy. Cool. All right. Next question. Has anyone put a kegger?

I was going to pick that one. Has anyone put a keggerator in their Airbnb? Is it a kegator like the thing that? works with a keg, I'm assuming. Yes. All right. You literally would have a keg tap in your Airbnb. That's interesting.

Is your Airbnb become like a free bar? Free bar? I have not ever thought of that. I have not seen it. I would not do it. But I don't see why you wouldn't do it. You know, if you have a place on the beach somewhere or in the mountains and you want people to have a beer when they're done hiking or something, I don't see why it would be a bad idea.

I would talk to your lawyer first about any kind of like, talk to your lawyer. Yeah. I don't know anything about life. I'm a 24-year-old speaking, hey, a Kagurator sounds pretty cool. Awesome. Awesome. All right. This question, which makes no sense in this context, but what would you recommend?

A pool, a hot tub, or none on a rental property? On a rental property? Sure. I would recommend none just because it's another thing you have to maintain, another liability, another pain, you know? So in a rental property, no, if in your personal property, if you would like a pool, by all means, get a pool. But I wouldn't get one for my rentals.

I agree, Brandon. I would agree. Would you agree? I would agree. I would not want to rent out a, unless it's a large apartment complex of some sort, I would not want to rent out a house with a pole or hot tub or anything like that. Yeah. I feel like, I mean, unless like the market dictated, I needed it, like if I get way more rent, because every other house had it.

Well, that's true. Yeah. I'm coming from Colorado where, nobody's got to pull. If you're in, like, L.A., there might be another story. Yeah. That is true. Yeah, good, good point.

Cool. All righty. Well, let's head over to the last segment of the show, which we lovingly refer to as our Famous Four. All right, today's Famous Four is sponsored. Our book sponsor of the week, every week we got a new book that's sponsoring the Famous For. Today's book is set for life because it's a book that we've been talking about a lot today.

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this week only. And with that, let's get to the famous four. Number one, what is your favorite real estate related book, Craig? And it really pains me to say this, but I got to say it's the book on rental property investing that you wrote. It was, I know, it kills me. It kills me. It's great. It was the first one I read.

And so I got to kind of pay homage to that. And, you know, it's what got me into real estate investing to start in. And I used it too. I used it as I was, you know, buying my first property. I would look through the chapters and all that and see kind of, you know, what the next steps were. Love it. Were there words on the chapters? Lots of pictures.

Well, there's pictures. That's why I liked it. diagrams, yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. I can't read good. He's doing our finances. This is a camera you do is math. Yeah.

Oh, we're in trouble. All right. Favorite business book? Yeah, you're like, one of the things I admired about you when we interviewed you was like you're an avid, avid reader. What's your favorite book and what do you read? now. So, non-real estate. So the favorite non-real estate book, this was a tough one for me.

Can I say two? Yeah. So the first one is that would not, that's not appropriate. It's against the rules, but I'm going to bend the rules a little bit. You got to do that. This is the Craig Show. This is the Craig Show. I say what's going on.

One is, one is, it's called Never Split the Difference. And it's basically a, it's a negotiation book. And it's an extremely interesting book about this guy, Chris Voss, he used to be a hostage negotiator. And he takes you through all of these hostage negotiations that he goes into and the tactics he uses. And then he applies that to everyday, everyday things like negotiating a car rental or negotiating a higher salary, stuff like that. And so it's a great book. I would recommend it for anyone.

You know, I've been recommended that like 10 times in the past month. So I'm just going to buy it right now as you're talking. I'm getting it right now. You should be listening to me intently not buying a book. No, I'm getting on an audible right now. Yeah, it's a great book. And the second one would be the four agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz. It's kind of a, it's more of like a philosophical type book, but just a way to live a very great life and not have any stress and all that kind of stuff.

And a lot of celebrities and famous people have read that book. And, you know, Tom Brady is one of my idols and he read it. So that's kind of what I got. I read it. And so it is great. And he's also the best quarterback of all time, right, Josh? Wow. Wow.

Good for you. By the way, I have not, I tried to read that one and I never got into it. I need to try again. You got to try that again. Yeah. You didn't even pray into it. Oh, so good. Yeah.

I was listening to it. I only got like a chapter in and then I like just got distracted and it didn't hook me. Do you listen because you can't read or? Mostly yeah. Wow. Wow. All right. Well, we're going to scrap this episode of the podcast.

Let's find a new guest quickly. Craig. What do you do for fun, man? I know you, uh, you, you, you play basketball. What else do you do besides not spend your money? Yeah. So, you know, I like to be very active. You know, I like to exercise, like to hike.

Traveling is my number one passion. You know, I've, I've been to like, you know, over 25 countries now. So I kind of just want to keep building that list up. And yeah, traveling, hiking, exercise, just kind of being active. Awesome. Awesome. I just bought, never split the difference. Wow.

Were you paying attention? Talked about traveling, 25 countries. Look at that. I can multitask. Wow. Yeah, so special. There's actually no such thing as multitask and it's task switching. I can say task.

One thing. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Last question. What do you think separates successful real estate investors from those who give up fail or never get started? I think the number one thing is just be willing to be being comfortable, being uncomfortable.

Yeah. Get uncomfortable and do those things that you're afraid to do. do and just take that next step. And then those, those uncomfortable things will become comfortable. And that's how you grow. That's how you expand. That's how you, you know, and so just get uncomfortable. I think that's the number one thing that people are afraid to do.

They're just like to be cozy. Like to sit back in rent apartments and watch Netflix and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, get uncomfortable. Get uncomfortable. I like it. I like it. I love that. My Instagram post today is going to say, get uncomfortable.

Craig. Yeah. Is it, high school last name. Cool up. Curlop. Yeah, you're definitely not good at reading. Curlop. Yeah.

You have a weird last name. It's like, I do, I do. Curelop. Pretend like the E's not there. Curlop. Curlop. If people want to reach out and talk to you and ask you for advice, connect with you, whatever it is that they might want to do after this bizarreo episode of the Bigger Pockets podcast,

how can they do that? Yeah, so they can reach out to me on Bigger Pockets. I'm on Bigger Pockets all the time. Facebook is fine. LinkedIn is fine. I'm not very active on Instagram or Twitter. So if you reach out to me there, It may take a few days for me to get back.

But yeah, any of those other options are great. Perfect. Awesome. Well, Craig, thanks for coming on the show, man. Really appreciate it. Lots of luck. And great job so far. Yeah, thanks for having me.

Love it. Love you guys. All right, guys, that was Craig Curlop. Smart dude. Smart dude, man. I told you I want to have this guy on the show. I know. You were like, no, I hate Craig.

And you were like, come on. I was like, no, I hate Craig. I'm just kidding. I know. You could be off-putting at times. I mean, he clearly insults. in me once in a time. Clearly, I think me too a few times. I can read sometimes. As long as it's like the redfish, bluefish, white fish, red fish. Hey, Brandon. Yes. If you reach on your right shoulder,

there's like a, that would be your left shoulder. There is some kind of something right there on your sweater. Yeah, what is that? What you got there? It's kind of, my OCD is kind of kicking in. I don't know. It's like a sticker. No, it's like a white. piece of fabric. I don't know. toilet paper on your sweater. That's great. I don't think this is Twitter. I think it's like, I think it's like a sticker my little girl had. Anyway, anyway, thank you for OCD in my shirt, apparently.

And, uh, great show. Great show. Yeah, I, I, I like this idea. Like I said, in the intro, the whole idea of like, right in a car. That sounds kind of cool. And I was even thinking about the idea, like, if that's a, if that's a legit business, if you can rent your car out for, let's say, $30, $40 a day, could you buy a car on a loan that's like $250 a month for a loan and then rent it out for $1,000 a month or $800, $600? Could you buy a fleet of cars? I was going to say a fleet, right?

What if you had five cars? Yeah, could you rent all of it? I mean, that's an interesting business model. I don't know. Something worth. I'm going to work with that. Anyway, yeah, again, like, again, I thought the show was awesome just from the standpoint of like, you know, he's very proactive about pursuing financial freedom.

Yeah. Yeah. Very creative. Yeah. Yep. And I love it. So I keep going. Craig, you rock.

Yeah, do it, do it. Awesome. All right, man. Well, listen, until next time, let's get out of here. All right. I'm Josh Dorkin. Are you sure? Signing off.

You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the height, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com. your home for real estate investing online. It's time for it's time for. It's time for.

The random six. All right, it is time for the random six. Of course, these are the six random questions we ask every guest here at the end of the show. Just to get to know you a little bit better and get to know you from a non-real estate standpoint. So number one,

hey, Craig, I have a question for you. What do you value most? Free time, recognition, or moment? money. I has a softball. Free time, 100%. That was a need of it. I would have been mad if you said something else. I've been like, what are you doing here? Come on.

What was the point of that whole show? All right. Number two, do you have any habits you wish you could erase besides that nose picking thing that you've been doing it? I don't want to erase that one. Good. Any habits that I have that I would like to.

This is kind of an awkward question to ask. I guess... Well, since I was a boy, I always wanted to stop. I guess one thing that I do, I guess, is I do spend a little too much on like gym memberships and stuff like that. So I've been trying to scale back on that. And I just haven't got there. How many gym memberships do you have? It's like most people have one.

What are we talking about here? Also, I'll do CrossFit like four or five days a week. you know, that's like 150 bucks a month. And then I'll do class pass, which is basically you go to the, you know, you go to multiple gyms around the area. And I like to do yoga once a week. So I do my yoga through class pass. And so I spend like 200 bucks a month on gym memberships, which is probably more than

the average person. So that's kind of something I'm looking to scale back on. And it's paying off. Can you take your shirt off? Is that what Josh is asking? All right. I can't get a lot more. We'll get a lot more listeners.

I don't know. Yeah. We get a listener. I guess listen. Wow. And he does our mass. Yes, he does. Brennan, next question.

Have you ever actually kept a New Year's resolution? Actually, yeah, every New Year's resolution that I keep, I've made, I've kept. Wow. I only. This year. I did not have one this year. Oh, that's why. Yeah.

Well, actually, well, I stopped drinking. I guess that's kind of one. Okay. But, you know, the first one that I really had was, like, Back in like seventh grade, I was like fighting with my mom a lot. And so I was like, I'm going to stop fighting with my mom. And so I stopped fighting with my mom and now we're a really good friends. So that was kind of like the big one.

Yeah. I read the 98% of New Year's resolutions fail. 98%. You're the 2%. 2% of the 2% of the 2 that I've made. Yes. Okay, good. All right.

What are the five apps that you need on your cell phone? Five apps, the bigger pockets app. Ooh. But Spotify is a big one. I like to go on, I use Facebook, the ESPN app. And does like Safari and Chrome count? Because that's where I do a lot of my letters. I guess Google Maps.

There you go. There's five. There's five. Because, you know, that's how you normally do your math. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's great.

You don't know an app that changed like a huge part of my life. Like this is like legit. So it's an app called Moment. M-O-M-O-M-T. I think I've told you. I don't know about it. It's on, but I don't like do anything with it. Oh my gosh.

I use it all the time. Here's what it is. It's an app that all it does is monitor how much screen time your phone is on every day. So if I was watching a video, you can see, like today, I've been on my phone 18 minutes. Yesterday was the lowest I've ever had an hour 30. I think it was probably the lowest. Then hour 52, hour 58. But when I started this, I was considered like three months ago.

What do you got? You're 20 minutes. Josh, you lose. Yeah, when I started this thing, I was consistently like four or five, six hours a day. Look at the last couple days. Three hours, three hours, four hours. Yeah. It's a shocking how much time.

Do you set like a goal, like a limit goal or something? I do actually. Yeah, you can actually set a goal. I have the paid version. It's like $3. It's, you know, big money. Get the paid version. You can actually set a timer.

So I have to go off at, now it's at two hours. If I get two hours on my phone a day, it starts like buzzing nonstop until I shut my phone off. So if I pick it up for something, it's just like buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz. Go off your phone. Get off your phone. And, man, I've probably saved myself two hours a day of being on my phone, you know, seven days a week. Yeah, amazing app. I just find that I replace my, my laptop with my phone.

I do so much more with my phone that I would normally be sitting on a laptop doing, but still, you know. I agree. But still, like, I feel like the phone is, it's really easy when you're like with your family to pull out your phone, like instead of being with their kids, right? So what I found is like, if I can't pull my phone out, I naturally am spending more time with Rosie and Heather. And yeah, that's probably been the most life changing app for me this year.

So it's a moment. You can change it to gray scale too. And that helps you not want to be. be addicted to it more. I don't know if you've heard of that. I have not, but that's a good idea. Yeah, I've heard of it. Yeah. So you make your whole screen, gray scale, right? Yeah. So that's what I do. So I feel like I'm not on it too much, at least not for long periods of time. Unattractive phone, huh? Yeah, unattractive phone. Nice. Cool. All right, Brandon. Next question. Next question. What foreign language would you most like to learn and why?

So not including English, because I kind of know that one. Spanish, because I'm closest. French, because I want to sound like everything I say is very romantic. German, for when I get angry. And Mandarin because I just think it's very practical because a lot of, you know, I think it's like the second most popular, I might be the most popular language in the world now. Crazy. Wow. Good job. Well, well done.

Last question. This is an interesting one. What job could your company not pay you enough to do? Craig. Oh, this is a tough one. What job could sit on a beach? Just like Landon's job. I could be a better one.

Yeah, who is job of bigger pockets would you not want to have? I would not want to, you know who I wouldn't have Josh's job? Josh Dorkin here, he has the worst job because you sit in meetings like 30 hours a week. Oh, it's a terrible job. Yeah, being CEO is horrible. Yeah. Honestly, I would not. I don't think I'd want publishing coordinator Katie's job.

I just don't think I'd want to be reading the same book like eight times. And then like, yeah, like I'm a one-time book guy. Maybe, maybe twice if it's the next year or something like that. Yeah, I got you. Awesome, awesome. All right, Craig. Well, that was the end of the random six. Let's get out of here.

Adios. Cool. Thank you. Ciao. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K, copywriting is by Calicoe content, and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.w.w.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only.

All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk. So use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. Bigger Pocket's LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential, or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast.