BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 314: A 3-Step Blueprint for Managing Contractors Like a Boss with Andresa Guidelli

Episode Date: January 24, 2019

Would your real estate business benefit from better rehab/construction knowledge or tactics? Well, that’s the focus of today’s show, where Andresashares her story of moving from Brazil to America and crushing it in the real estate space! Andresa excels in an area many of us find extremely challenging: managing rehabs. In this episode, she pulls back the curtain and shares tips for how you can do the same. Andresa gives great advice for finding excellent contractors (and vetting them), the three things she puts in every contract, and how she makes sure she’s never ripped off. You won’t want to miss her advice on finding the perfect team, determining the scope of work for your project, and learning your market. Andresa also shares a killer tip about challenging low appraisals she’s used successfully three separate times! Andresa is able to skillfully manage several rehab projects at a time while also running a side Airbnb business and gives great guidance on how you can do the same. Download this one now! In This Episode We Cover: How Andresa got into real estate How she finds great contractors The three things she puts in her contract How she pays her contractors Her advice for finding the perfect team How she embraces what she’s good at Why you should be humble enough to partner with others How she determines her scope of work Tips for understanding your market How she challenges appraisals Her advice for Airbnb investing And SO much more! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Webinar BiggerPockets Podcast 234: Tenants, Evictions, & The Dark Side Of No Money Down with Ryan Murdock Best Ever Conference BiggerPockets Events BiggerPockets Podcast 203: Finding Deals, Funding, Contractors, and Mentors with Matt and Liz Faircloth BiggerPockets Podcast 260: The Ultimate Guide to Negotiating (for the Negotiation-Averse) With Former FBI Hostage Negotiator Chris Voss Books Mentioned in this Show Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki The Book on Investing with Low or No Money Down by Brandon Turner Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss Long-Distance Real Estate Investing by David Greene Traction by Gino Wickman The Code of the Extraordinary Mind by Vishen Lakhiani Tweetable Topics: “There’s somebody for every role.” (Tweet This!) “Get the ‘no’ first because that is when the negotiation starts.” (Tweet This!) “Partner up with somebody that is willing to share to you the entire process.” (Tweet This!) Connect with Andresa Andresa’s BiggerPockets Profile Andresa’s Website and Podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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This is the BiggerPockets podcast show 314. Well, here's the thing. I have general contractors and I manage them and they manage the subs and everything else. Because when you get to scale your business to five, 10, 15 deals at the same time, it's basically impossible for one person to deal with all the subs and invoices and all of that. So I manage the general contractors. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com.

Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on, everyone? This is Brandon, host of the Bigger Pockets podcast here with the co-host of the hour, or hour in 15 minutes. David Green. How you doing, buddy? I'm doing great, Brandon. I'm off to a really good start in 2019.

We have like eight houses in Nesker right now in my real estate agent business. And I'm pretty excited about that. And we have a tremendous show today. Today's guest brought the heat like few people have. Yeah, it was fantastic. So our guest today is Andresa Gidelli. Andresa is a fantastic investor who is really, really, really, really good at one thing that most of us really, really, really, really suck at. And that's managing rehabs, contractors, finding them, getting them in line, making sure you don't get ripped off. We cover all that. Plus, for just growth from getting started, from coming to the States, from being an immigrant to the U.S. to growing this awesome business.

It's fantastic. So definitely stay tuned for all of that. Before we get to that, let's get to today's quick tip. All right. So today's quick tip was actually brought up by today's guest, where she mentioned that she worked for somebody for free, learn the business, and then went on. Actually, she paid money to work for them, then went on to earn way more money than she ever paid for her education.

And many of us are willing to spend money on a college education, but we won't spend money to learn the trade that we want to get into. My advice is you find someone who's crushing it at what they're doing, that you you want to learn from and you offer to work for them for free, knowing that what you're learning is much more important than what you could be earning. If you want to do this well, start off by knowing yourself, just like today's guest. Undress is going to talk about how she knows her weaknesses and her strengths and offer that person something that has to do with your strength and see if that's something you can help out with. As you do good at a few projects, they'll start giving you a few more.

And at a certain point, they'll realize I want this person in my life. Ryan's, or I'm sorry, Brandon is doing that right now with his buddy Ryan, who's in Hawaii and is slowly taking over. more and more of the stuff that Brandon has going on in his life and his business, I'm looking for the same thing. So if you want to learn from a rock star, know the things that you yourself are good at, offer to do it for that person for free, prove yourself, then you'll find yourself getting more and more opportunity, and then you can make a bunch of money. That's a great quick tip. And yeah, today's show is largely like, even if you don't care about construction stuff, like managing rehabs, like almost everybody should know how to do that. But what the real goal that I got from today is what

you just said about like finding somebody who's really good at something and not always working doing everything yourself. Like you mentioned Ryan. So Ryan Murdoch, he's been on the Bigger Pock's podcast. He lives now in Maui with me. Like he is really, really good at some stuff that I'm really, really bad at. And like, we're seeing a lot of growth in like in my business and his business because we're working together more often. David, you and I are the same way in a lot of ways. We're just good at different things. And that's great. And that's what today's show is really about. All righty. So let's get to today's show. As we mentioned today, we're our guest, and dress it. But before we get in there, I wanted to make a couple of quick announcements or

maybe even a second quick tip. So I want to encourage you all to get together with other real estate investors more often. So go to bigger pockets.com slash events, EVE-N-T-S and see what's happening in your area, what event you can go to, where you can get connected. I know, David, you host an event like every month. So if you're in the Bay Area. Every single three times a month at different places in the Bay Area. And I teach people high-level concepts for absolute free. Yeah, that's awesome. So definitely check that out. Also, I'm going to be actually speaking at, The Best Ever Conference. If you guys remember, Joe Farrellis was on our show.

He's hosting a conference called the Best Ever Conference in Denver on February 22nd and 23rd. I'm actually speaking there of 2019, of course. And so you all, if you, I don't know if it's sold out or not, but if it's not, you should totally come. And I will hopefully see you there. It should be a lot of fun. Again, in Denver, February 22nd and 23rd. All right. So let's get to today's show with Andressa.

Andresa, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast. It's great to have you here. Thank you so much. guys for having me. Yeah, so let's talk about your story about how you got into real estate. So kind of walk us through the beginnings and what got you into investing in real estate. Sure. I always say that I started with a big, huge no in my face. I was born in raising Brazil and I came to the U.S. for my master's degree, got approved by the university. And when I went to the embassy to get my visa, I got a big note.

And then I turned around and I was like, okay, why is that? And they said, well, you need to show proof of funds. You need to show that you have $75,000 in your bank account in order to start here. I was like, that's not happening at this moment, right? But I knew people who did have the money. So we made an agreement and they signed up for me, the family that hosts me over here. here in the American family, wrote a letter and show proof of funds showing that they did have the funds in case I didn't pay that were going to pay for me. After I started, I got a scholarship

and thank goodness I did not have to pay a penny anymore. So I graduated with zero student loan. After that, I did a door-to-door sales. Very cool. Got tons of nose every single day until I got my Yes, right? And one day I came to my manager and I said, hey, I want to take, you know, my team to the next level. Tell me about like a sales book that I can learn more about it. He's like, no. And I was like, why? If I make more money, you make more money. So I'm not getting it. He's like, no, I'm going to give you this book called Rich Dad, Poor Dad. I had no clue what he was talking about. And he's like, one week from now, you come to. me and we talk. And that's what happened. And then at that time, they were doing workshops around and I went to one of them. My husband at that time was also interested in investing in real estate. And within six months, we purchased our first house, rehab it, living and in, took a hillock

out of it and then start the journey. And here I am. All right. So there's a few things I want to unpack there. Let me let me start with this. Before I get to that first deal, what brought you to the U.S. to begin with. Like I don't even like, why leave Brazil and come here? Sure. Some people asking that question. It's such a beautiful country. And I have an amazing family there.

I didn't have to come here. However, I finished my business administration master's degree there. And I didn't have a family. It was time for me to have a different type of experience. So I wanted to come here and improve my English. The plan was to stay here one year. understand the culture from my own eyes, not from a TV, you know, a broadcast, all those perceptions and stereotypes that I had in my head. I wanted to have that experience in one year.

However, in six months, I found a master's degree in business communication that I really enjoyed the curriculum and I decided to apply and here I am. But the plan was not to come and, you know, build my family and business here at all. Okay. All right. So, okay, so let's go to that first house. You bought a house and it's a house you lived in, correct? Yes, I still own and I do Airbnb with a house still. Oh, okay, cool. So we can talk about that. But then you mentioned you said you, you used a helock. Yes. What is that? Can you explain what that means? Yes. Absolutely. I love to. So we bought the house for $175,000. We put about $65,000. Now the property is worth at about $385. So at that time, we build a $175,000. We built a $75,000. We put about $65,000. We put about $65,000. We put about $65,000. Now the property is worth it. So at

equity with a rehab was a full gut rehab. We built equity in the property and we were able to pull that equity out. 75% we pull out. At that time, it was a very funny story, though. When we received the appraisal, it came at $25,000. And I was like, something is off. Let me read through the entire document, to the entire report and see how did he come up with it? that because on my number it was higher than that. So I look at the report that we had access to and I found a ton of mistakes there and I wrote my own report, send it back to the bank, not knowing that if it was right or not or if I could do that or not, contact the appraisal and say, hey, I found a couple of things here. Would you mind taking a look and here's my report

to you? That report came back at six, $68,000. That was the change and that made a difference for us to buy the next investment property. So from $25,000, we went to $68,000. Since then, I did that three times already. That's cool. That's a good idea, a good strategy, challenging the appraisal a little bit to try to get them higher. Now, Andreessen, you've done that twice, right?

Two different appraisals? I did that three times in three different appraisals. Okay, three times. So Brandon was right. three different properties. What have you found out is the key to challenging an appraisal and getting it to stick? That's a good question.

A lot of the appraisals, they're not local. In Philadelphia, we're very dense, so we cannot use a mile radius for an appraisal. You are in a completely different neighborhood. So if they're not local, that's the number one thing. I know that they're not familiar with the property. And when I buy the property, I buy it as an appraisal.

So I look at 0.25 miles. I want to know what's going on there. I run very tight comps. It's between three to five comps. If I don't have that, it's either it's a good thing or is a horrible thing. Let me explain you why. If it is bad, it's basically because nobody wants to buy there or if it's that good that I don't have comps because there's no inventory.

but there's a high, high demand there. So I know my market, the palm of my hand, and that allows me to really understand what's going on. And when I send the information to the appraisal, I tell them exactly what type of finishes I use and why my numbers are that way. I want to jump in here real quick and explain for those people listening to this because this is so powerful. This is so important, right? So when she mentions comps, right, we're talking about comparable sales. So what does another property sell for? Correct. How you know on a single family house, that's how you know what your property is worth based on what other ones are. So you're saying if there are no good comps, if there aren't any properties around that you can say, hey, yeah,

this is a similar property, that could be a very good indication that it's a, the danger, right? So true story. One time I bought a, I bought a huge house up on the hill in this town that I was going to flip. And I could not find any comps when I bought it. Couldn't find anything. And so I was like, well, you know, this is close enough. So anyway, I ended up buying the house. I ended up being the only flip I've ever like lost money on because I the the second thing was true like the first thing you said was true there was just nobody interested in that type of property I wish it was the other way I wish it was just that there was no inventory but this was 2012 there was a lot of it just nobody wanted it so anyway I think I think that's just a brilliant point you make there about like you've got to

know the comps if you've got to know and if there are no comps you need to ask yourself why and don't assume it's because no inventory assume it's because they're probably you know nobody wants that kind of property. Okay, so you knew the value because you ran it, you weren't just relying on somebody else. You were saying, no, I'm going to run my own comps. I'm going to look at the number. I'm pretty confident in that. I mean, knowing what a property is worth, the ARV is like one of the most important skills an investor can have. And you just walked us through exactly how to find that. You look at the comps. You make sure that's within a, you know, quarter mile if you can. You know, recent sales, not something two years ago. Yeah, absolutely. You're in Philadelphia,

two major things, for example, that might apply to other markets is if the basement is finished, we're very dense here. The properties are next to the other. We don't have, you know, space in between. So we got to either create a space going down by finishing the basement or going up by creating a roof deck. So it does make a lot of difference in one thing or another. And if there is a garage, we're talking a big, big difference there. So being aware of those differences, when you're buying it, I run up, the comps when I'm buying it.

So I'm very confident that I'll get the number that I want one, the appraisal brings up their report. Yeah, I love that. Let me jump in. For people who are listening, you may be a little confused, like, well, there's no comps. Is that good or bad? How do I know? You don't want to just guess or you don't want to be hoping that you're right. I talk about all the time, don't get addicted to hopium to wear.

you're just like, man, I hope this works out, right? A lot of people run their business that way and it doesn't work out. No. What you do is you look at the comps that there were, like you have to go back pretty far, and you see how long they sat on the market for. If you had a really high day on market, like 100 days or so for houses to sell, and there's no recent comps that's a really bad sign. It means nobody wants to buy over there, so nobody's bothering to sell.

If the house is sold really quickly when they were selling, that's why you don't have a lot of comps now because nobody wants to move out of that neighborhood is a lot of high demand. And that's what Andresa was mentioning earlier. It's either really good or really bad. That's how you tell which way to go. Yeah. That's exactly it. My number one thing is I only if I'm rehabbing a house, I want to be in those neighborhoods. There are 30 days or under days on the market. That's that's exactly what I'm looking for. And if I am in an area or in a place where I'm not familiar, I do a lot of the diligence with a local realtor. and how do I know him? Because I look who sold the most in the area and I want that person.

I want that person to walk with me and let's do let's go on what it's what is for sale right now. Let me see what the competition it's using for their finishes. I want to know everything. So that's a homework that I do before purchasing the house that helps a lot. That is so good. And I just, I hear all the time that people have this impression that every realtor is the same. I don't like realtors or they're fine or they're like a necessary evil but it's not like not everybody is the same at everything they do and realtors who sell a lot of houses in general are much better at it because they get way more repetition they have more experience they know what buyers are looking for they know it could go wrong and how to fix it when it goes wrong trying to find

a realtor who doesn't sell houses very often maybe does it part time maybe they're the cheapest one and you're all the same so I'll go with the cheapest one will cost you so much more money in the long term. And I dresser, you're right on because if you find the realtor who does this all the time and they see potential problems that could come up, you don't have to know everything about everything. You just have to know the people that do. And I've found that as a realtor all the time. People come work with me and they're like, oh, my God, you are so good. I didn't know people could be this good. And I know that's because they didn't look. They just said, oh, I'll use my buddy Bob. He's got his license. Exactly. Same, you know. It's a very good point. Yeah. Cool. All right.

So let's go over where you went from there. So you got that first, you said you got that first house. Now you still loan it your Airbnb, which is awesome. We can put that later maybe. But you took the home equity line of credit that you got, which is where you tap into your property or the equity and you can, which is one of the strategies I talk about in the book on investing in real estate with no and loan money down,

which is way too long of a title for a book. But one of the chapters on Helox, home equity lines to cut it and home equity lines of or home equity loans. Anyway, okay, so what did you buy next? What did you get into? And then kind of walk us through your journey from there to where you are today. Sure. So the next thing that I did was partner up with somebody that did more than what I did

because looking back, I overpay on my construction because I did not know what I did not know. And that was a big, big mistake. So I was not willing to do that again. So I partner up with somebody that we brought the deal to the table and he brought the finance and at the end we split 50-50. And from there, start duplicating that money. That fund never went to my pocket. We put it back back over and over again to buy other properties. And then we went for doing, you know, one property, then two at the same time, three, and then transitioning to

new construction and larger developments. All right. There's so much in there I want to unpack. First of all, I love that your story includes what I tell people all the time. We do these webinars every week on bigger pockets. And one thing I constantly tell people is, and David, you tell the same thing. If you can find a really good deal on a property, you can find somebody to finance it or help finance it or bring the down payment. It's exactly what you did. We talk a lot about it's a single way called the deal Delta. It basically says to put together a deal, you have to have three things.

Knowledge and experience, hustle and money. So those three things are needed, right? So knowledge or experience, however we want to call it, kind of the same thing because you get experience of knowledge. Anyway, hustle and money. So what you did is you brought the hustle and money. and you brought the knowledge and experience and somebody else brought the money. You don't have to have all three of those things. You just got to have one or two of them in order to put together a deal and have somebody else bring the rest. So anyway, I love that. And then you said you took the money

all the profit and rather than spending it on a trip to Cancun, you rolled it into the next deal. Yeah. And that's a discipline that a lot of people don't have. How did you, how did you, I guess, overcome that temptation just go and spend it instead of reinvest in it? I was laser focused down because for five years I did not take a penny. And I knew exactly what I wanted to do with the company. I wanted to scale and I needed to spend my time creating systems that would support that and creating the teams that I needed and specializing on the construction part of it or on creating, how can I create the biggest things that I have found?

the challenge was around contractors. So what can I do different here? So I cannot get screwed over and over again, but instead create a win-win relationship with contractors that I really trust and we can expend. I have limited time. I have only 24 hours per day. So how can I delegate and create the team that have what I don't have,

their strengths, and we can benefit from each other? Yeah, that's fantastic. So let's talk about contractors a little bit, because I know today in your business, you do a lot of dealing with contractors. Yes. What does that look like? I mean, like, how did you morph into that role? And what does that role look like today when you deal with contractors? Sure.

Well, Lisp for Cloth, my business partner and a good friend of mine, we did a personality test at first for our team. And to really understand what are our strengths and what we really suck at. And my strengths were on dealing with the contractors, managing the budget, the scheduling, the finishes, and making sure the projects were moving forward in a time manner. That was my strength. So I started developing systems that we can, not just on my projects, but for other people, how can we do that in a systematic way where you're doing multiple, but you are in control of what's going on and not getting. crazy and losing your hair while doing it because it can get pretty messy. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense.

So you mentioned Liz Faircloth, which, by the way, Liz Faircloth was on episode 203 of the Bigger Pockets podcast. One of my favorite people in the world, Matt and Liz Faircloth, are a fantastic couple. They do a team. So, yeah, you're a partner with them. You're working with them, which is awesome. So, all right. So very cool.

I definitely recommend people go and listen to that one. So let's talk about kind of your, how you handle the construction management. First of all, what does a construction manager do? Well, that's a good question because sometimes I got to ask another day in a speaking event about that. And I was like, well, here's the thing. I have contractors, general contractors, and I manage them. And they manage the subs and everything else. Because when you get to scale your business to five, 10, 15 deals at the same time,

it's basically impossible for one person to deal with all the subs and invoices and all of that. So I manage the general contractors. So how do I find them is the key. First, I know my criteria, I know what I'm looking for. And the first thing that I tell people is that a quick tip, I go to on the, I go on the MLS or Zillow, Trulia, whatever you have access, and I look at the properties that I like the quality of. and I figure out who did that. In Philadelphia, I can easily find that by looking at who pulled the permit.

And I get in contact with that contractor and I schedule, you know, a meeting with them. And I meet them at their job site, not on mine. That's so good. Because that's going to tell me a lot about how they work, how he treats his employees, especially if he's on time. I arrive 10 minutes earlier all the time because I want to see if he's already there or not. because that tells me a lot of how he deals with time. And from there, make a lot of assessments about what's going on, how long this project is taking. I look at the finishes and the details

will tell me a lot about how he run his business. That's fantastic. I love that. I mean, I'm just thinking about you walk in there and you're automatically going to see, are his employees hard at work getting stuff done? Or is everyone kind of hanging out, laughing, joking, screwing around. Are they communicating well with each other? Or is he bringing in subs that don't talk? So the painter's not communicating with the drywall guy. Because you know if you go in there and it's a tight run ship that they're more likely to hit the timelines that they give you, whereas if everybody's kind of unfocused and not doing a very good job, they're not really paying attention to what they're doing. They're going to go over their timeline on all the jobs they have. And

you don't have to worry about what he tells you because you're seeing it for yourself. That's what I love about your strategy. We get this question all the time. I'm your brand and gets it too. How do I find a good contractor? You know? And it's kind of like you got to be an FBI hostage negotiator to interview somebody to find out the details of if they're good or not. None of us have that skill. It's better just to like you're doing, go to their site and see how they work and get a read on them from there. Yeah. Yeah. And then from there, I have my three major things. Of course, I'm all about having your word and my word has value. If I shake your hand, that's what's happening. However, I want to have a contract with my three major addendums. And my contract,

my real estate attorney reviewed. It's not his contract. It can be his contract, but I'm going to review it as well. But I have my standard contract that I can use all the time. I prefer. But if he wants to do it, then's fine. And then attached number one is a very detailed scope of work. because believe you're not, sometimes people think that hardware on the cabinet in the kitchen is not needed. Yep. Yep. Right? So I got to put it over there. Yeah, you got to put toilets in the bathrooms. Yeah. That's, that's amazing. That's part of the job.

Yeah. Second thing that I do is my finishes list. I know all my finishes already. I'm not in a design business. I'm not. I'm a developer. I'm an investor. So I use the paint that I use on my first house is the same thing that I use now. I don't want to spend time on that. That's basically it. So they know what type of finishes I'm looking for, where to find the link, the picture, the amount, everything is there. And the third and most important thing for me is the payment plan.

So it's divided. There's the deposit, the phases, and it runs like any other bank. The bank won't lend it to me unless it's 100%. And even though if I sometimes is just cashes our own funds, I run as if I am the lender as well. I won't pay until it's 100%, not 80, not 90, 100%. And that's it. I would say almost every single story I hear of an investor who says, what do I do?

My contractor rip me off. They won't finish the job. I say, well, how much have you paid them? And they always tell me the same thing. I gave them all the money or I gave them almost all the money, right? It's just there's no incentive for that person to do the job the way you want once they've already been paid. Whereas if you wait until the job's done, you can pay them a little bit up front and then

you pay them after their work is finished. Yes. There's a natural incentive because they want to pay their guys that are working on it. Now their guys are putting pressure on them. I want to get paid. Well, if you've already paid him, he doesn't need to go, he doesn't need to finish a job to get the money to pay the guy. You want to create that system where this person's thinking, I need to do X,

if I want to get Y. And if you give them X right away, you lost all your leverage. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And as you said, the guys are pushing him to get paid. And I hear tons of stories. They're going to come up with me saying, yeah, X, Y, and Z is sick or just happened or that

happened. But we're doing, you know, this is business. And I can just make, you know, sometimes I might do a little bit because I build a relationship with that person and we're doing tons of business together. But if that's not the case, it doesn't cut. But my word is also very important. If the job is done, they need to get paid within 48 hours. So that's also something that I'm committed to. Otherwise, it's just not a good deal for both parties. Do you know what I find all the time is when I, because I'm again, let me, let me, I'll review the three things you did right here and then explain what I'm going to say.

So the detailed scope of work, number one, you said you got to have a detailed scope of work, the finishes list of whatever's going to be so they can know know exactly what they're getting into and then the payment plan. If you don't have those things in play, like, that's how you go dramatically overboard on your, on your, you know, your budget in a lot of ways. If you have those set ahead of time, it also takes a lot of the weirdness out of the conversation. Like, how many times do I work with contractors where they're like, you know, it's Friday they're like, hey man, can I just get a bump? I, you know, I just need to get paid. We got my contract. I got my guys. It's really easy when you have that document because that's what changed everything for me I'm

managing was when I had that document and I'm like, they don't ask me because they know very clearly when the flooring is done and the grout is down and the sealer is on. That's when you get $2,500. And so it's like, yeah, no problem. You can do that. You might have to stay until 10 o'clock a night. But you know what? They don't ask at that point. They know they got to stay until 10 o'clock at night to finish that if they have to, if they're behind. Right. I don't have to tell them. That's them. It's like they're, they said they would get done at this time and this is when they get paid. It takes all the weirdness out of it. Yesterday, I was talking a bunch of people about managing contractors, and they were complaining about how they struggle and being ripped off or whatever.

And I was thinking about that Jocko Willink book, Extreme Ownership. And this book basically says, like, when you're the boss, everything is your responsibility. And then I thought of, I think it was a story in that book. It might have been another book, but they basically said, if you have multiple employees that have constantly are like laid on things or not delivering or not doing a good job, it's not the employee's fault, it's your fault because you're clearly managing incorrectly. So I would say the same thing for every investor out there. If you are constantly having problems with contractors, it's not the contractor's fault. You're doing a bad job managing contractors. So anyway, I love those three things. I love having that, you know, getting a detailed scope

of work, the finishing list and the payment plan. And then always making sure you have the leverage in the payment plan. It's when you fall behind and that they're ahead, basically, that they have no incentive to show up. Right. And you can get a very good idea or how quick they, they process their stuff. Once I meet them and my job side for an estimate and I give everything that they need. So I time, how long do they take to get the estimates? And if they approve, how long did they take to give me their W-9? Because I don't start a job without that. How long did they take to put me or my company to their insurance as an additional insured? So all of that are going to give me a lot of, you know, feedback of how quick this person works.

What do you mean the additional insured? I don't do that. What is that? So I always ask them to give me a proof of insurance. So right at the bottom, they can add at no cost. me and my company as an additional insured is just adding me there. Because in case if their insurance expired, I will receive notification as well. Ah, that's cool. What a great tip. I've never heard that, never done that before, but now I'm going to start. So that's very cool.

Yeah. All right. So what about this? Let me ask you about when I'm doing a project sometimes, you know, managing contractors, I might have a good detailed scope of work and a financial list and a payment plan. and then they open up a wall and there's termite damage. Or they pull up the floor and it's rotted. You know, like things come up in a rehab project.

Yeah. How do they handle that? How do you handle that? What's your process look like for change orders? Sure. Well, I hate change orders in terms of hear me out. Major of my projects, they are a full gut. So there's no such a thing as an unforeseen item because I get it gutted first.

everything is open and then I ask them to come to give me an estimate so they can see everything. But change orders are based on unforeseen situations that are not on the scope of work and they're not on my finishes. It just happened. They're not there. So if they're legit, of course, we move forward, but all change orders needs to be documented. If it is not documented and signed by both parties, it is just very confusing when you're doing multiple projects at the same time. And it needs to be, if I'm doing project management for another investor, it needs to be signed by that investor as well.

So everything might, you might think, oh my gosh, it's so complicated. Actually not. Everything I do it online. So I use hello sign or you can use docuSign and everything. it can be everything online, seamless. The contractor can sign it with the tip of his finger, as well as the homeowner and me if I'm not the owner. That's fantastic.

All right. So you're talking about managing contractors. I wonder how does that play into your investing strategy? I mean, are you, you say you do it for other people. You also do it for yourself. I'm assuming like, what does your overall today business look like? Like, what do you, like what's that like? Sure.

Majority of the projects that I'm managing currently, I am involved. I have ownership on those. Those are my primary. And we're doing larger development deals, more new construction and doing things that we have found that doing a single family or doing three or six at the same time. I can leverage much more the supply, my time and the general contractor skills if I'm doing multiple at the same time. So I start partnering up with other folks that are doing the same thing. both here in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. Matt and Liz are my partners in New Jersey.

And now I start, this is kind of like brand new. I start doing the construction management for apartment complexes that I will have ownership as well. But Matt and Liz needed somebody to step up on that area. So we kind of like share a couple of things there. And that's basically in. That's cool. That's cool.

I love that you, like, found your niche in like something that you're really good at is construction management. And you're like, I'm going to use this as my thing, like that I'm world class at. And I know, you sound like you're like probably one of the best, if not the best, like, construction manager I've ever talked to. You're like, this is what I do. And this is what I'm a rock star at. I'm going to use this to leverage into deals. Like, like, this is how I'm going to build financial freedom and wealth, like you really good at this. That's exactly what we do. For example, if you look at Matt Faircloth, he raises private money, right? So we work as a team. He raised private money. Once he's done, the balls come to my court. And from that on, I take it to the

final line. So that's what we do. I love that. I love that. Just so many people want to do everything themselves. And it's not always a bad thing, right? But when you can put together a team and like that guy is the best, you know, to use, I'm going to steal David's thunder and be an analogy guy, right? That guy is the best at any base hits. And that guy is the best at, you know, throwing a fastball. And that guy's the best at catching in the outfield. Like, that's what wins championships. It's when you have a team of rock stars that are good at individual things rather than trying to be a jack of all trades. I couldn't agree more, but I think that looking back, that was my biggest challenge. As a women in this industry, I did try to do everything on my

own and prove that I could do it. But it gets to the point where you either stay still doing three, four deals at the same time and that's it. Or you start delegating and growing personally. You got to hang out with people that are doing bigger deals and then yours became very small and really, really understand how you spend the time. I start spending more time knowing myself and what I'm good at, what I like to do, what I don't like or not good at, and really delegating it. But that was a challenge. It didn't come easy to me. Yeah, that's great advice.

In fact, most people, when I ask them why they haven't got started investing, they give me the reasons, but all the reasons are different ways of wording. There's parts I'm not comfortable with, and I can't get comfortable with it. Yeah. Right. And if you just found someone who's comfortable with those parts and you just focus, because nobody likes everything about everything. Like, we're all different.

There's people that love to analyze deals. They just want to talk about information and analysis. and it's almost as fun as actually doing a deal just to talk about it, right? That's me, actually. I love. I love analyzing and putting together deals. That's 100% true. Brandon will talk about exactly how this make-believe thing would go,

and it would be just as fun as if we did a real deal. And then he gets done, and I'm like, okay, so what's the next step? He's like, I don't even know if I want to do it. Throw the whole thing together, right? And then you've got other people that all they want to do is network. They just love to connect people. We like to find this guy and this guy and bring them together. But actually, like, what do we do once they're doing?

once they're together, they're like, I don't know, I don't want to do it. And they don't take action. Well, if you can find the people who are good at the things that you're not and be honest with yourself, like And Dress is saying, that's what I love about what you're doing is you're humble enough to say, I know it's my ego that's trying to prove to the world, I'm a woman, I can do everything. But I'm really not good at everything. I'm good at this. And you partnered with people that are really good at the stuff you don't like doing. And I'm sure they were so glad to have you because who wants to manage construction. I mean, that's one of the toughest parts, right? That's nuts, right? Yeah.

I wish I like something else. Right. Yeah, it's like property management. If you find somebody who's really good at property management, everybody wants them because, God, that's horrible. Why would you know? My wife loves property management. I mean, like, that's why she wrote the book on these rental properties.

It's because, like, she loves that part and she's good at it. I hate that part. But, like, you find people who are really good at certain things. And there's somebody out there that's good at everything. I mean, like, there's somebody for every role that you just got to find those people. Find the person who likes doing book. Like, there's somebody out there who loves doing. bookwork. Like, I think that's insane. But there's people who just love sitting down with a pencil

and a spreadsheet and running numbers, like, on keeping track of stuff. Yeah, no, that's not me. That's, we're all like, that's the most boring dry part. Yeah, but somebody gets done with their day at work and they're like, yeah, I feel so good. Eight hours of bookwork. Unless they're looking at a spreadsheet, they're not happy. There's a box and I need to put a number in it. I so badly want to do this. But see, Brandon, I bet that's why you and Heather built a good portfolio. Because if you had to do all the property management yourself, you'd have gotten three houses and said, screw this. I don't want to be a real estate investor. I'm doing way too much stuff I don't like. And Heather would have probably never wanted to do it on her own either because she doesn't want to have to go like meet

people, talk to people, analyze deals, put things together. So you get that marriage and that's where it all comes out. On that note, Andresa, I want to ask you, because you are good at something that very few people are good at, which is organizing and managing several projects from the construction aspect, do you have some tips for anybody who wants to do the same? How do you get good? good at keeping all these little balls in the air with all the moving pieces flowing smoothly. Well, that's a good question. If I knew that a long time ago, I will have done it. I think that the three tips that I give it to you guys, the scope of work, the finishes, and the payment plan, it can be a good start. But I think my number one thing, if I look back,

partner up with people that don't know what you do and then learning front end. I was very straightforward with my first contractor. I said, hey, I'm not going to be here bugging you, but I'm going to ask a couple of questions because I'm looking to learn. So if you don't mind explaining why you're digging the basement and just what is underpinning? Would you mind explaining that to me and I'll take a couple of pictures of the process? And he was actually like, sure, I love to. Like, I can't talk about this all day long because I really enjoyed doing construction. So that was a good thing for me. Another tip that I would say that always helped me is to look at the home inspections. I start building my scope of work and I constantly added things

based on the home inspection. They put a lot of things out there that are very valuable. And if I'm meeting a inspector, a sitting inspector here, I always want to build a relationship with them. And I have a great relationship with those here in Philadelphia. Somebody might be hearing me and saying, those ladies nuts. Well, you got to do what you're going to do. It's not, it's very respectful, but I want,

I want them to tell, yeah, tell me what, everything that is wrong here so I can add to my scope of work. And then next time, you're going to come here and say, oh, it's an dressless project. And he's going to like, oh, looks great, bye. And that's exactly what happened.

You build that trust. and they know they are doing the right thing. Gary Vaynerchuk says you should find someone really good at what they do and work for them for free. Do you agree with that? 100%. 100%. And I did that. I did that. And I would do it all over again. I get a chunk of my time and say, how can I do?

I'll do whatever. What do I need to do? Do I need to clean toilets or you sit down with me for an hour? I am the type of person that if I am looking to get the knowledge, I don't care what do I need to do. Saturday, Sunday, whatever it is. I did door-to-door sales. That's the hardest thing that somebody can do. I think my skin got thicker so much the point I could care less about what people say or what they do.

But I am eager to get the knowledge and I will do whatever. Yeah, that's fantastic. Really, really. I love that mindset. And I think people need to like rewind the last minute of this show. and just listen to that again because it's so good. All right. So, but I want to move on because we got a lot more to talk about today.

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Let's get to the deal deep dive. This is the part of the show where we dive deep into one particular deal that you've recently done. So, and Jesse, you got something in mind? You got a property in mind? Yes. Okay. So first question.

We got like eight questions. We're going to fire at you real quick for details. Number one, what kind of property is it and where was it? It is a triplex. It was a mixed use, a candy store at the bottom and two units at the top. And we converted to a three, residential unit. All righty.

Next question. How did you find this still? I was doing a rehab on the same street and I saw lots of garbage bags being put outside and some furniture and we started getting in contact and that was a state sale. So we got in contact the attorney that was doing the project, helping them out with the house and it was an off market deal. I love it, love it. How much did you pay for it? We paid $230,000. All right. How did you negotiate that price? Well, they wanted a little bit more, of course. They're in South Philadelphia, a triplex there.

However, Philadelphia, born and raised. Oh, my God, where I spent most of my days. I think it's West Philadelphia. Oh, you're right. It is. Shows how little Brandon knows about Philly. Go ahead, address it. In West fill it up. Yeah, you're right. Okay, fine. Basically, we needed to do a full gut there.

There was no way that we could savage anything. So we explained to them the situation, and there were a ton, a ton of things inside. There were, like, furniture, lots of candy store, the furniture for the candy where you put the candy and all that stuff. They had, like, collections and collections of glasses and different stuff.

So there were a lot. So that's how we were able to negotiate the price down, considering all the things that we had to do. Cool. How about funding it? How did you pay for this thing? We use a lender. We got the money down and we got a lender and 75% LTV and 100% of the rehab. What kind of loan? Like what kind of lender? Was that private money or was that a like just a bank? Bank. All right. Okay. You said you converted it.

Yes. Okay, what did you do with it after you converted it? So that's a very important topic that I don't want to forget. A very important thing over here that we do find deals that need to be converted, but the conversion process takes a long time. It might take a long time. So what we did, once we put it under contract, we also had agreement between the seller to start the zoning process right away.

So that shaved a lot of our time. So we went through the zoning process here, it didn't make sense to keep the bottom commercial and went through the, you know, community meeting and there was a funny story there because this property has a roof stack. And one of the members of the community raised his hand and he was like, are you guys looking to keep the chicken coop? And we're like, what are you talking about? And I look at the board and I said, I have no idea what he's talking about. And then the guy started laughing hysterically. he's like, sir, that's not a chicken coop.

That's called pilot house. That's for the roofback. Oh, funny. I was like, well, whatever. We passed the zoning board and converted to triplex, everything separate, all three different units. Nice. And how much did you put into that deal on the rehab? So the rehab, we put about 200K into it.

All right. So what was the outcome? like then, like, what was it worth? What did you end up doing with the deal afterwards? You hold on to it. Guess what happened? Okay. When we got the appraisal. It came in low. It came at 560. So I was like, all right, here we go again. So I sat down one more time, did exactly what I told you guys. And here's the thing, you don't know if they're going to accept or not, okay? But you got to try. You got to be nice to the appraisal and say, hey, I'm not. I don't want to make you wrong or anything. But this is what I have down here. They were from Harrisburg.

No idea was Southfield. They were calling South Philadelphia. They were calling South Philly a neighborhood. So I was like, no, not really. Anyway, they came, they evaluated and then came back at $675. Wow. $1,000. Yeah. That's in, that's amazing. All right. So you re, you got it a praise. So you bought it for $2.30, you put in $200,000. So you're at $3.34.30, whatever. They think it's a praise for $675 after. you challenged it, which is awesome. Is that the idea you refinanced it then?

Yeah. Got all your money back out again? Yes. That's awesome. That's like the burdial of the century. I love that. And now you're just holding on to it? You guys have taken care of it, getting cash flow.

How much money are you making from the chickens or the eggs are laying on the time? Oh, God. That's funny. All right. So what did you learn? Maybe that was David's question. Well, I stole it. Sorry, David.

What did you learn from this deal? Well, you got to be very, like having the courage to be like the perseverance in this deal because, you know, there's so many hoops. And it was not like a smooth deal where you make an offer, they accept the offer and everything goes well. There's so many challenges. I had to change contractors in the middle. I had to really pull things off. So there were different types of learning. process, but the latest one was about the appraisal again, that everything can be negotiable, everything. That's fantastic. What's cool about the appraisal thing, that I never really thought about too much. So you know, like when somebody gets a job, like let's say you get hired somewhere,

they say, yes, we would like to hire you, will make you an offer of, you know, 80K a year. There's zero downside at all of saying, you know, I really wanted 90K because worst case, they're going to say, no, you're at 80 and you're like, okay, I'll take it, right? There's only upside. I mean, unless you were a jerk about it, you're like, you know, try to like bluff your way and say, no, I won't take the job. But like there's zero upside. I mean, sorry, zero downside to try to negotiate a little bit more. In a real estate deal, there's really no downside to after an inspection trying to negotiate a little bit lower as well. Because the worst they can say is no. You're like, okay, fine, I'll still buy the deal. Right. So, you know, granted there are probably some, you know, you don't want to like make people upset and not want to work with them. But like, there's zero downside sometime to try to negotiate a little. little more. And that's what's cool about the appraisal thing. There's absolutely zero downside other than maybe the hour it takes you to put together a nice presentation to try to challenge an appraisal. Exactly. If it comes back higher, great. And if they say no, screw you, whatever. You know, you there was, you wasted an hour. I love that. So I want to just pull through a couple things from

this deal that I love. Why, David and I love the Burr strategy. If you don't know what Burr is, buy rehab, rent, refinance repeat. It's like you found an off market nasty property. This works really well. You got a good deal on it because it was nasty. You put a bunch of money into it, fixed it all up, and then pulled all that money out. So now you can go repeat the process again and again. And it works on single family, works on duplex, triplex, fiveplex, hundredplex, hundredplex, mobile home parks, mobile homes, you know, anything. And it just works. And people do this. And I just love the strategy. And people are saying, well, well, you know, I don't have any money for it. Great. Be really good at finding deals. Bringing a partner to fund the deal who's

good at raising the money. And I don't know where to find deals. Figure that out. Like every single part of this you can do and people listen to this can do. They just got to have the right mindset and the right attitude of, yeah, I'm going to do this, right? Jim Rohn says, if you really want something, you'll find a way. If not, you'll find an excuse. 100% who found a way. So very, very cool. Find the person that was in your situation.

That person has already the answer. So you don't need to reinvent the wheel. As I listen to. You got to be on the right place. Join Facebook groups, listen to the podcast. You've got to do your due diligence. Yep. How much of a role do you think all?

those nose you heard over the years played in the way you handle these things where you go say, well, what if I challenged the appraisal? What if I get a contractor to come down on his price? Like all these little ways that you've looked at being a better negotiator, do you feel like that happened because you got thicker skin from going after things and being told no a lot? I do. I do. And I was selling Verizon business to business. So I got to talk to business owners. And every time that I got a chance, I asked them, tell me, how did you start? What? what was your story? And that like, he mad me like 30 seconds ago.

And all of the sudden, he's already saying, hey, here's, here's some food or here's whatever. It was usually a restaurant. So I ate for free all the time. So it was funny. But I do because sometimes I got doors slimmed on my face. Literally. Sometimes people are having a hard time.

And I had to deal with that rejection at that time. Very hard. First, I thought, there's something wrong with me. What is wrong with me? What is wrong with the person? So you got to swallow and keep going. And then all of the sudden, you just hear that no and say, okay, that's one more. So I'm getting closer to my yes.

So on the book, never split the difference. Chris Box, he always talked about like getting the no, get the no first. and that's when the negotiation starts. So I'm fine with noes. It's just the value that I give it to it is just like, okay, fine. Now let's start a negotiation. Wow. So good.

So good. All right. Well, let's head over to the next segment of the show, which we lovingly refer to as our Fire Round. It's time for the Fire Round. All right, let's get to the Fire Round. These questions come direct out of the Bigger Pockets forums. These are real life or real estate investors on the Bigger Pockets For.

who are asking these questions and we're going to see and just what you've got to say about it. Number one, I'm curious to know how hard or how easy it is to find competent and efficient architects. Like, what do I look for if I need an architect? Well, competent, it really depends on what you're referring to competent, right? I think you can use the same thing as the contractors. For example, if I'm looking at a property, I look around who did those properties around me. Well, who was that architect? So I'm looking for projects that I feel, okay, this has a good layout.

Who did this project? So my criteria will determine a good match and not the other way around. That's great. Okay. Next question. I invest in a small city that's had a population of 45,000 for the past 50 years. Appreciation is slow. Houses sit for a long time on the market.

There's not a lot of industry in town. This violates a lot of conventional wisdom, but I absolutely love investing there. What do you think of investing in a market like this? Well, find your niche. Are people coming to your town for Airbnb, for example? This is the new thing for me. I feel that Airbnb is not tied to any local or national economy.

It's global. People come in and out. You can create a very good experience in your town and bring people in that might be the keys. Otherwise, there's a book written by a guy called David Green about investing out of state that you can check it out. Nah, it's a lame book. Don't worry about it. Very nice.

That's the best answer I've ever heard. No, actually, that sounds a lot like my market that I invested in Grace Harbor, Washington for a long time. And I still do invest there. Like, a lot of my best deals are in this town that has not grown. In fact, it's shrunk. But it just, like, I learned what that niche is. I learned how to make it work and I figured out. And now I make really good cash flow in that area.

So like almost I always say like every town in America, every town in America has real estate investors. Just figure out what works there. Like or go somewhere that actually works for whatever it is trying to do. So, I know number three, I want to rent out, speaking of short term rentals in Airbnb, I want to rent out my basement apartment as a short term rental. What features should I have to attract the best guests? First, you need to ask yourself, is that a good location?

And it really depends. It really depends. How close you are from public transportation, the attractions, what's going on around you. Same thing. You got to look at the comparables. Are other people doing Airbnb in your area? How is the legislation? Is it allowed?

It is not allowed. There's so many question marks that needs to be answered first. So the market analysis is my first thing that I look at Airbnb. If those are no, no, no, no. I don't really care if your sheets look great and you have like sound is amazing, but the location really sucks. People are not going to come. How far you are from the airport, for example, people are not going to come. So that will be in my first thing. Look at the market. Okay. Anything inside the property that you think, like does having an office help like a desk

in a place to work? Or does that not really help? Like what are things like that that have you've seen work? Yes. So I have a again, I'm like all. about spreadsheets and all the things that I got to have. But 100%. Airbnb has a future there. The e-tailors to business travelers. So if you do have a desk, a lamp, high internet speed also facilitates things a lot and will attract those people. But the house needs to be completely furnished with everything that one person will want it to have. And on top of that, the touch is, is what the host will give it, which is a guide, a personal guide. So I put them, hey, go to this place here to have the brunch and you know what I like most about it.

This dish. It's my favorite. You got to try. And, you know, so they have an experience. That's my number one thing. They got to have an experience. Otherwise, they're going to stay in a hotel. This is really good advice.

Really, really good advice. You should write a book on this. Okay. Last question. I'm a new investor and I see a lot of conflicting advice about getting a mentor. What's your best advice for finding a mentor who can show me the business? That's a great question. I paid a lot for my mentors and I recover every single penny.

I'm not saying to people that they should pay thousands and thousands of dollars. That was my personal choice and I recover every single thing and much more. But here's the thing. A lot of people are saying, hey, you want to be my mentor. it takes time to be somebody's, you know, to somebody to mentee. It's a lot of time. So what is the exchange there? What are you bringing to the table?

100% you're going to either bring something to the table or pay somebody something for their time if they want. Some majority of the mentors that I want don't have the time to be mentors. So you've got to partner up with somebody. that was my advice. Bring the deal to the table, partner up with somebody that is willing to share with you the entire process

on the area that you are looking to get. If somebody comes to me and say, hey, can you mentor me in wholesaling? Nope. I'm not the right person for you. So number one is, what exactly do you want to receive information about? And then hunt those people there you're looking to follow.

Yeah, fantastic answer. Really, really good. All right. We got to head over to the next segment, the final segment of the show, which we call our Famous For. Let's get to the world famous, famous for. Number one, and Jocelyn, what's your favorite real estate book? Hey, it's not about any real estate strategy. It's about negotiation, but it's the book about never split the difference by Chris Ross. I really think that that's a game changer for, in real estate. If you understand that, you are ahead of the game. Great. And we did interview Chris Voss on the BiggerPockets podcast. It was a show 260. So go to BiggerPockets.com. As soon as you're done listening to this episode and go listen to that one. Like Chris really brought the goods on that show. It was so good. So yeah, very, very good real estate book. Even though it's not about real estate, it's a real estate book, because it helps us in our real estate business. It's funny you mention that because I've been listening to

Chris Voss the last three days in a row on YouTube. Like every speech that he's been giving, listening to all of it and practicing it in my head for my real estate agent business how to negotiate better. Okay. Do you have a favorite business book other than never split the difference? Yeah, I have two. The number one is traction. Yep. Bye. Let me get Gino Wickman. And the number two that I'm really obsessed about, it's called the Code of Extraordinary Mind by Vision like Honey. It's traction. but most on the spiritual side, awareness side that really helps, you know, you center yourself,

really good. You know, if I had to guess, I had not heard of that book, by the way, so I'm going to add that to my many lists of books. But traction, if I had to guess what book you were going to say, it would have been traction. Like, because like traction is one of those books. It's just like, here's how you organize and keep super straightforward and it gets your business just crushing it.

Like, it's like an encyclopedia of how to run a scalable, like, stuff. sizable, good business the right way without stress. Yes. Fantastic book. And it's exactly what this whole show has been about. Like, when you made the contractor, stop winging it. Like, have these three things you need. You got your contract.

You got this. You got your employees. Here's how you motivate them. I love that you said that. Yeah, it's just, it's exactly what I would think you would say because how you run your life. So predictable. No, in a good way. Like, so many people struggle.

Like, so many people struggle with knowing how to run a business. Like, they can figure out how to buy rental or buy a flip or manage a rehab. as a one-off thing. But how do you run a business, which is what you have to do if you want to grow a sizable portfolio of any kind of real estate or anything. Same thing with the GCs, though.

You can find a lot of people that can swing a hammer, but they have a hard time running a business or running multiple jobs. They mix the money and then they get very confused. Yep, yep. Very, very common, especially with contractors.

Cool. All right. Number three, David? Number three, what are some of your hobbies? Well, I love dancing and that's something that I haven't done a long time, but I started doing it. And I started 2019 dancing a lot. So this year, that's what I'm doing. I'm scheduling time with myself and showing up. That's awesome.

What kind of dancing? Salsa. Really? Yeah. In Brazil, we don't dance salsa. We dance samba. But I like salsa. Well, normally, when we have a person on the podcast here who's like a fighter, you know, like a Brazilian jiu-suitz fighter, I always challenged them to a fight.

So with you, when we ever have like a bigger pockets conference someday in the future, I'm coming. It's salsa dance. I'm totally down. I'll be on stage. All right. I'm not going to fight you, but I will do it. What's the dancing show called that everybody watches? That's the one Brandon always uses is like, oh, I couldn't buy a house because I was watching dancing.

Yeah, I use that. Oh, my God. We should do a like previous bigger pocket podcast guest, dancing with the stars dance off. Oh my gosh. Right? It's a dance off. It's a dance off.

And Brandon will be the partner that they all have to use because he's so good at dancing. I spent many countless hours, countless hours watching Dancing with the Stars on my couch with nachos in my face. All right. Number four, what separate successful real estate investors from all those who give up, fail or never get started? I thought a lot about this.

and what comes out, keep coming to my head is just awareness. Awareness of who you are, awareness of where you want to be and what's the gap, what's the plan to fulfill that gap. I think that being aware, being present, if you're with somebody, be with somebody, be where your feet at, period. Because if you're laser-focused and you have a plan,

there's no way things are going to get, you know, on your way. You're just going to achieve it no matter one. All right. That's beautiful. Tell us where can people find out more about you. Sure. So I have a podcast called The Real Estate Investor Show.

So people can go to www. The Real Estate Invest Her, H-E-R.com. And find it there. That's a clever name. Real Estate Invest Her. That's funny. Clever. Look at you.

But the guys also can listen and participate. That's totally fine. but that's Target for the ladies. There you go. It's perfect. All right. Well, definitely everybody check out that show. We will put links to all that in the show notes as well.

BiggerPockets.com. slash show 314. And, Andreas, thank you so much for joining us today. You were welcome, guys. It was a pleasure. That was beautiful. This is David Green for Brandon.

I Still David's Questions Turner. Signing up. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast.

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