BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 326: Health, (Big) Wealth, and Total Accountability With David Osborn, Pat Hiban, Tim Rhode (and Josh!)

Episode Date: April 18, 2019

What does true wealth mean to you? Maybe it’s having control over your time or having the means to donate part of your income to charity. Maybe it means feeling healthy enough to jump out of bed and attack the day. In today’s episode, Brandon, David, and Josh (remember him?) speak with three financially independent investors about what motivated each of them to work so hard toward their goals. Early in their careers, David Osborn, Pat Hiban, and Tim Rhode realized they shared a common goal: to steadily accumulate streams of passive—or as they call it—“horizontal” income. So they got together and made a serious commitment, vowing to hold each other accountable every step of the way—even if it meant dishing out some tough love. In this episode, you’ll learn how finding an accountability partner can change the trajectory of your career and life, and how giving time and money can not only make you feel better but also make you more wealthy. You’ll also learn how David, Pat, and Tim built dozens of streams of income by living below their means, connecting with the right people, and taking advantage of opportunities. This is a must-listen if you’ve ever asked the question, “Why am I working so hard, anyway?” You’ll come away from this episode motivated to hold yourself and your loved ones accountable so you can reach your goals together. Download it today! In This Episode We Cover: The background of these founders The story behind the three amigos and the founding of GoBundance The Pillars of GoBundance Having a genuine contribution Having authentic relationships Having extreme accountability Having horizontal income Having age-defying health Having bucket list adventures How to reach your financial goal Finding motivation to earn and grow more And SO much more! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Webinar GoBundance BiggerPockets Podcast 226: From “D-Student” to $400,000 in Annual Rental Property Cash Flow with David Osborn BiggerPockets Podcast 284: The “Miracle” Behind Becoming a Millionaire with Hal Elrod and David Osborn BiggerPockets Podcast 190: Building 61 Different Passive Streams of Income with Pat Hiban  BiggerPockets Podcast 313: How to Be Happy AND Grow a Massive Business with Entrepreneur Jesse Itzler (and Josh!) 1 Life Fully Lived Books Mentioned in this Show The Miracle Morning by Hal Elrod The 4-Hour Work Week by Timothy Ferriss Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki 6 Steps to 7 Figures by Pat Hiban & Gary Keller Rich Dad’s Cashflow Quadrant by Robert Kiyosaki Retire Young Retire Rich by Robert Kiyosaki Richest Man in Babylon by George S. Clason How to Invest in Real Estate by Brandon Turner and Joshua Dorkin Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill As a Man Thinketh by James Allen The E-Myth Revisited by Michael E. Gerber Tweetable Topics: “How can I work as little as possible and keep making money?” (Tweet This!) “Spend your time doing the things that make you money and delegate the rest.” (Tweet This!) “Real estate is the everyday man’s way to wealth.” (Tweet This!) “My car is always secondhand.” (Tweet This!) “Set financial goals, not material ones!” (Tweet This!) “All the wins I’ve got in life have all came from me willing to be vulnerable.” (Tweet This!) “It’s weird because every successful person I’ve ever met spends more time thinking than doing anything else.” (Tweet This!) “You can’t build a successful business without health.” (Tweet This!) “A life without contribution is a life not worth living.” (Tweet This!) “Always be where you are.” (Tweet This!) Connect with Pat, Tim, and David GoBundance Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. This is the Bigger Pockets Podcast. Show. What show is it? I don't even know what it should say is. If I hadn't told my buddies in my tribe, hey, I'm struggling here. I don't know how to get my wife to be a really good assistant

like I'm trying to get her to be. And all my friends educated me, dude, you are an idiot. You need to go in a different direction. And I slowly soaked it in over multiple years. Me and Tim took bets on the divorce. And now I understand. Now I realize that I'm my wife's assistant.

The light has shone on me. And so I'm here to serve her. And it's been a game changer for me. I have the best place I've ever had. And about six years ago, I'm like, it was so tough, I wasn't sure I was going to make it. And that's because of transparency. So now, of course, I'm addicted to transparency. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio.

Simplifying Real Estate for Investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on, everyone? My name is Brandon Turner, the host of the Bigger Pockets podcast, here with my co-hosts today. Never said that before my life. Is that even a word?

Sounds good. Joshua Dorkin and David Green. This is the first time I've been a co-host. This is the first time you've been a co-host. Yes. I was wondering how well that was going to go. I'm a little disappointed. I don't know if I want to be in between you guys.

This isn't feeling good, guys. This is going to be good. All right. So for those people listening to this podcast here, this might sound a little different. Maybe the quality is a little different because right now we are actually recording this on stage in front of a bunch of really thousands. Tons. Okay, there's, I don't know, what, 150 people? It's like 16 people in the room.

There's a couple hundred. There's a couple hundred. There's a couple hundred. There's a couple hundred good looking gentlemen in this room. room. We are at the annual winter go-bundance event. Can I get a shout-out or cheer for that? Grab a lot big. All right. So what is what is go-bundance? We'll talk about that in a minute. But before we get into that, we're actually interviewing three people. So yes, there are six people on today's podcast

episode. And we're going to be talking a lot about wealth building, but not in the way that you might think. We're not going to be just spending the whole time talking about how to make more money in our bank account. So I'm sure that will come up. We're going to talk about what wealth really is in all of its different forms. And we're not going to be just spending. We have money is one of them, but we'll expand. That's all there is, Josh. So we will introduce our guests in just a moment. Before we do, I want to get to today's quick tip.

All right. Today's quick tip is very simple, and it's based on what we're going to talk about today a little bit. If you do not have a group of people, whether it's two people, five people, or 150 people, that you can regularly get together with and have hold you accountable to your goals and your plans and your dreams, you should probably get that. You know, we've all heard that quote. You are the average of the five people you associate with the most. And it's been really, really apparent to me being part of this group, this Go Abundance

group. And I know, as our three guests are about to probably tell us, hopefully that's been an important part of your lives as well. So let's get to today's interview. Now, I'm going to actually let you guys introduce yourselves. Because it doesn't know your names. Yeah. If you are not watching this on YouTube right now, you're listening to the audio version of this.

It might be a little bit confusing to hear who's talking. So all of us try today when you're talking, say who you are before saying something. But why don't we start with the, we call them the three amigos. We'll have you guys introduce each other. And whatever order you guys feel are the best looking to the worst. All right. Best looking to the worst. I'm David Osborne, best looking.

Of course, David went first. Great to be with you. All right. Pat Heibon. Tim Rode. All right. Now, some of these names may sound familiar because we've had both David and Pat on the podcast. And Tim will probably be on again.

Yes. But if you've been a faithful listener, a bigger podcast, you should recognize some of these people. And it's kind of cool to see how the relationship between Brandon and I and the three amigos is going to be tied together. There we go.

Notice he didn't include me. I have no relationship. Josh is like the substitute teacher today. Who showed up on the same day as the regular teacher, so it's really uncomfortable. All right. All right. Sad.

Yeah, sad. All right. So let's go through. I want to actually, before we, you know, you introduce who you are, but now tell us real quick, who are you in under a minute? Like, tell us your life story in under a minute, kind of where you got to. And then I want to transition that. You guys can transition at your big boys on how you met each other and how that got to where we are today. I know it's a lot to cover in like a couple

minutes, but. Cool. I was the kid in the back of your class throwing spit wads at you and not paying attention. I woke up at 25. I'm a grocery clerk with two part or two kids working part time as a grocery clerk, found my niche selling real estate, sold a lot of houses, lived like a grocery clerk, retired at 40 financially free, ski, I was a ski bum for 10 years, started one life, helped start go benefits. Wow, that's good. Nice. That's awesome, and I learned everything I know from these two guys on either side of me. So I took after Tim, basically I was a real estate agent from 21 years old, rose all the way up through to be the number one agent in the world at Remax. I'm an agent in order to Keller Williams, then retired at 46, wrote my book,

six steps to seven figures. Woo! Went on book tour, basically became an investor, a full-time investor, and now I have a podcast where I help real estate agents sell more houses and a online company called Rebus University, where we train agents, how to make more money. And, of course, I'm a founder in this beautiful company, Go Bundit. I'm David Osborne. I'm the father of three wonderful kids, two daughters and one son, and I'm married to a wonderful wife who puts up with me. I built with many partners, one Smokey Garrett as well, the fourth largest residential real estate company in the U.S. We sell $10 billion worth of real estate a year. And then I wrote a book called Wealth Can't Wait, New York Times bestseller, and also a founder of Go Abundance. And let's get right into how we started.

Yeah, please. So it's 21 years ago, 1997. And I'm at us. Aren't we supposed to be asking questions? Wait, he said like a transition. I said he was a good one. I said. Hey, what's the big idea? Oh, all right, do it, do it. All right, here we go. 21 years ago, I'm new to the business. I just opened my first full franchise from the ground up. And I'm in a class.

I've been a class junkie my entire life. I've needed to learn. Like Tim, I was a terrible high school and college student, but once I got into business, I became the most avid learner you would ever meet. And this class taught us to be accountable to one other person. They said, pick a peer partner out of this room, look for another person,

and that person is going to be your peer partner. Little did I know that at that moment in 1997, I looked across the room. I saw a guy. He had hair back then. And I gave him the man nod and the man nod kind of like this. Men know it. I don't know if women do it, but I know men do it. We're like, whoa, what's up?

It means I'm cool. Are you cool? Like, maybe we should be friends. If they don't nod back, you don't go over and talk to him. But Pat, fortunately, gave me the man nod back. And we became friends. And what this guy taught us was to be peer partners. He said, you guys have to hold one another accountable.

You will be coaches for one another, nonpaid, paid in time, me equally, and you will hold each other accountable to the commitments you make in your life. We held each other accountable since 1997 now for 22 years, and it's been a relationship that has been one of the top five most transformative relationships in my life. Can I ask a question on that? So you did the nod, you saw him, there was the bromance. Yep. What if it didn't work out?

You know, most people didn't work out. The interesting, we were in this class for six of eight years. It was a mastermind. And most people we saw would fall into a peer partnership and they would just become friends. They didn't become accountability partners. But the message the guy was trying to teach us is, and I loved it when a guy got up earlier and said, my peer partners kicked my ass. Pat would kick my ass on a regular basis.

And he taught me the value of keeping my word in business. If I say I'm going to do something that you don't need a friend that says, oh, it's okay. You didn't get it done. No big deal. You need a friend that you said I said I was going to make 20 calls this week. And then at the end of the week, you haven't made a single call. The guy needs to get an email out to you that says, look, are you just going to be like everyone else that talks to talk but doesn't walk the walk?

Or are you actually going to do what you said you're going to do? And that relationship was a sharpening of one another that lasted, well, for 22 years. And a lot of people spin out by that. You know, and we had that. We had other people try to join us. They spin out by that. And that's the majority of the public spins out when people call them out, you know, in their BS. Yeah.

So, you know, all the people listening to the show right now are probably wondering, what actually kept you guys together? Why, why did you guys work? You know, I can go and, you know, I mean, this guy was my peer partner and it worked out, I guess, or something. Kind of, but most, most relationships, most business relationships don't work. Right. So what was the connection between you guys and what can you share to somebody listening who's actually looking for that person that they can work with? So my dad said the reason he stayed married to my mom for 50 years was because they didn't both fall out of love with each other at the same time. There were times one fell out of love with the other, but never both at the same time.

With Pat and I, we had moments where we would fall off the wagon, we wouldn't have accountability, but one of us was always kind of drawing the other one back in. So we never quit on each other at the same time. Sometimes we were pretty weak partners. Other times we were amazing. And the second thing we did is reinvent the relationship on a regular basis. When we got bored of the emails, we started going to seminars together. When we got bored of the seminars, we started doing trips together.

Yeah, and, you know, we felt at that time that there was nobody else that we could really share the stuff that we were sharing. It was proprietary to us. We were wrong. Obviously, look at this room now. These people all are sharing their net worths and how much money they're making every month from rentals and everything else, right? And all this stuff. But at the time, it was proprietary. It was like, nobody wants to talk about this but us.

So we gravitated with that. And then we found him and we're like, hey, here's a dude. The first day we met him. He's talking about all his damn rental property. He's his auto zone, his dollar general store. We're like, man, this is great. We need to hang out with this kid more often. And what Tim brought, which was even more important to us, really was health.

Like Pat and I would compete on number of hours worked, dollar productive hours, how many assets we bought. But we were really all about business. And then we went to a Money Matters conference, and Pat met Tim. And he's like, I think I found a guy that can fit in with us. And what Tim was done, he'd already retired. He was living in the woods. We called him the backcountry billionaire because he rode his bike every day and he skied. And he brought an element of health to us.

we didn't have at that point. I'm fitter now than I ever was when I first met Tim. Yeah, that's my thing is getting the goods in the woods. And money's great, but there's a heck of a lot of stuff out there that, you know, make good money and do well with your investing, so you can live a marvelous life. So that's one of the most appealing parts of Go Abundance is it's not just focused on growing your net worth or growing your passive income, but you're doing it for the purpose of having a better life, right? Like if your Y is big enough, it can drive you through all the obstacles that prevent you from succeeding in things like business. And a lot of listeners to this podcast, they're facing that frustration of, I know what I need to do,

but I just can't do it. And I feel like a lot of the time their Y isn't big enough or they don't have a vision of what they want it to look like. Can you guys tell us a little bit about how Go Abundance ties into that, the principles of Goabundance and how they basically like tie into helping you accomplish your goals? I'd love to touch on that. In 1997, I had a magnificent future vision. I dreamed I would be living up in the hills with an amazing, magnificent view.

I'd be getting the goods in the woods daily, taking care of my family, and finds some meaningful way to give back. And I wrote all that in 97, and by 2004 it was a reality. And that's, like you said, you have to have an amazing vision that gets you up every morning saying, let me add them. I love that. So the way that ties in, though, is we all found, as you, success in life. I think everyone in this room has probably experienced this. You become lonely. You

become alone. You get isolated. And the reason is most of your friends aren't willing to do what you're doing to get to where you want to go, right? And that's not good or bad. You have your high school buddies and then your college buddies and then you're driving. And I think Pat and I worked because we were so ambitious. We wanted to be more. We were pushing each other to grow. And I got so lucky in Pat. He was the greatest peer partner of all time. I think he's slightly psychopathic. He loves, he loves kicking my ass when I'm not doing what I said I was going to do. And I was like, and I was like so glad about that because then by the law of reciprocation, if he screwed up in the littlest way, I was able to jump right back in. But we found that that ambition is a double-edged sword.

Money is only good for the good money can do, but having a lot of money makes a lot of things easier. If you want to make a difference in a charity, you couldn't give a bunch of money. If you want to go on a vacation, it's a great vacation. If you want to educate your kids or get them ski lessons, it's way easier with money than without. Have you seen the prices at this resort? So we just kind of became like closer and closer. We didn't start off as friends. We started off as accountability partners. But suddenly we were, you know, just leaving our friends behind.

And you either had to be half the person you were around them. Some few were cool with it. Or you had to like lie or just not be full of yourself. Or there's the risk that your friends are like, you're becoming a jerk. All you do is talk about your money and your vacations. I'm like, what am I supposed to talk about? I'm like working all the time. Sorry.

Nothing. That's awesome. Did I cut them off? It's good. You should. Good. All right. Hey, so listen, so we're talking about this organization.

We're talking about Go Bunnance. But, you know, at the end of the day, the listeners don't necessarily care too much about the organization. But I think they're going to, many of them will. And I think I hope they investigate and look into it. But beyond that, I think the pillars of the organization are what are so valuable about this group. Yeah, for sure. It's, I think, what, you know, David and Brandon have both chatted Brandon, you know, content. used to blowviate about lots of things, including...

So the guy who's still talking. Gobundance. This is my time. Anyway, so I'm going to read the pillars of Gobundance, and then we're going to go through each of these pillars, and we're going to chat with you guys about them, what they mean, and how people can kind of bring this into their own lives. So the first pillar is age-defying health,

then authentic relationships, bucket-list adventures. Oh, yeah. Extreme accountability, genuine contribution, and horizontal income. which we will also define. So... Why don't we start with the last one? Yeah, right?

The horizontal... I say that because a lot of people are now going, wait, horizontal income, what does that mean? Let's talk about that. So out of these six pillars, who wants to kind of define what horizontal income is... Horizontal income is just the opposite of vertical income.

Everybody has a job where they get a 2% raise, 3% raise every year where you work harder, you sell more in your business and you make more money. That's going up vertically. This is horizontal. It's coming in sideways. Obviously, rental properties are horizontal. Maybe a business that you own that you don't work in is horizontal.

And our goal has always been to try to get as many lines as you can so that they pay your personal bills and then you don't have to work, financially free. Hey, Pat, what's the difference between horizontal and passive income? Is it the same thing? Same exact thing. Okay. Good term, though. I like it.

All right. David just came up the cool term. I like my definition better. Horizonting on your back and receive checks. We thought that was kind of cool. Yeah, I like it. Horizontal. That's clever.

All right. So, horizontal income. So what do you guys have for horizontal income, generally speaking? You have to say everything, but maybe just say who you are and what you have for that right now. You don't need to say how much. It just means generally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like what's your focus for that?

Right. Single family, right? Multi-family. What have you got? Forty-two streets? I've got like, yeah, 40-some, depending on the day, whatever. Lines of income coming in horizontally. Some are businesses.

Probably 10 are businesses, five are notes, six are apartment buildings, one shopping, center, 12 houses, blah, blah, blah. I probably got like 30 streams of income coming in. My whole gig is, how can I work as little as possible on making money and water skiing in other people's wake like David Osborne and Andrew Cushman and stuff? And I let them, you know, and David's got brilliant people and they make me a lot of money so I can spend all my time getting the goods in the woods and helping make a real difference in communities all over all.

America. Boom. Nice. David. David Osborne. I got over 150 streams of income. Damn, son. And what are some of those?

Like, just so people have an idea. Single family rentals, which we all came from single family. We love it. I still love it to the state. Multi-family. I own 14 franchises, five master franchises. I have a private equity firm. I have an insurance company.

I have intellectual property. I think that's it. You wrote a book? But 150 does... Yeah, you lumped all your single families into one. No, no, no. I counted them separate because you always bust my nuts if I don't.

I don't like that. I have single family homes. So 95 of those 150 are single family. The other 55 are businesses of various kinds. So for somebody listening, I mean, this is intimidating. I mean, I could imagine like you've never done this. You're working a 9 to 5 job. And you're like, oh, this is crazy.

I mean, like, I'm not going to be a cajillionaire with like these guys. Like, you know, how does somebody, it's not a real word. I know. Yeah. We like not real word. I'm allowed to make shit up, okay? So this is my show. Was.

Was your show. Oh, wow. Wow. So how does somebody, how does somebody who's, you know, who's working a nine to five job? How does somebody begin to transition to a place where they can start to feasibly begin to build these? You know, I'm working nine to five. I've got a family. I've got obligations.

How do I find that? the time to start to build this horizontal income. I mean, it's, I can't even conceptualize it. How do I do that? Well, just to put it in perspective, Tim, did you graduate college? I barely graduated high school and never went to a day of college. Was it in the woods? It was in the woods. Portola, California in the house. So, so just there's not any exceptional, like, you know, human beings up here. It's just people that got started early on building one stream of income at a time. My first one was 1995. When was your first one? My first one was 1983. It was when the, 1981, when the Niners won their first Super Bowl. Yeah. When was you celebrated by buying a house? 1990. So it sounds intimidating because

of the 20 plus years we've been really dedicated to adding these streams. But if you just start with one and you get around the right peer group that make, it seems easy when you're suddenly meeting guys like we meet that are like, oh, I got 15 properties. Like, wow, if that guy's got 15, I should be able to have 20. Dollar cost average. And I've never seen a better model of this ever than David Green sitting right here. And the whole thing he did better than anybody I've ever met is, you know, as his income went up and he worked really hard, but he lived way below his means. And Vince Lombardi said defense wins championships. And most people don't know what's coming in, what's going out, what's left to invest.

And that's the key to the whole thing. It's a simple, basic formula. So we have something called 100% of the goals to have 100% of your monthly expenses covered by passive income. Then you're free. You can do whatever you want. You can be charitable. You can take your whole time off and ski. You can spend all your time with your family. But one of our goals is for everyone to be 100% or yeah. I really like that. Because yeah, once you have that freedom, once, this is Brandon, by the way, once you step outside of having to have a nine to five job, you can choose to have a nine to five job or you can choose to do whatever you want. That's when life gets really, I don't know, if fun is the right word, but meaningful maybe in a lot of ways. that a job can't be meaningful, but there's just something about having the freedom to explore those other things. A lot of people say, you know, what money doesn't make you happy? Well, it's true, but like you said earlier, it does make things easier. I'm really glad I made a lot of money before I figured out the money doesn't make you happy. Well, okay, all that note, I've actually

a question on that. So all three of you guys worked, you know, at least you mentioned, it's new to you, and I'm assuming Tim as well, but worked really hard at some point, like where you worked a ton of hours and you really, you know, and now that you're well off and, you know, we're all millionaires. Now it's easy to talk about, oh, you know, age-defined health and bucket-list adventures. That's really easy to talk about. What about the guy sitting there who's got a net worth of negative $75? You know, like, how do the pillars and living a, becoming a wealthy across different things? How does that play into it, in your opinion? Don't go on a bucket list adventure? Yeah, is that what you said? Don't do those things? We think almost everyone has to do

20 years and 10. I mean, I don't know another way to do it. I don't know another way than to work 70, 80 hours a week for at least 10 years. And save your health. And save your money. You live below your means. save money and then invest that money. And as our coach, Dr. Fred Gross taught us it's dollar productive activity. It's spending your time doing the things that make you money and delegate the rest. Can you guys talk about that? It's just a minute longer. Spending time.

That's a really important thing for wealth building to spend the time thing that makes money. Real estate is the everyday man's way to wealth, in my opinion. Like you don't have to be a rocket scientist. You just have to be disciplined. Live well below your beans. Play defense. We all live below our means. My car was always secondhand.

I used to be embarrassed to walk to my car after recruiting appointments. I'd wait until the agent left because I was so embarrassed about my car I drove. It was my mom's car. So wealth isn't like showing off your Bugatti. Wealth isn't, you know, blinging around and, you know, looking fly. You look fly. Look at that. Freaking look at it.

Like a flying fisherman. No, but there's another really big piece of that. And that's like where you are. are, be where you are. And so many people, when they're at work, they're online looking at their vacation. And they're on vacation, and they're checked into work. And that was another thing, Dr. Fred taught us, is always be where you are. And I'd like to say one other thing. And that's, anybody listening to this is absolutely on the right track. I never spent a dime or a minute learning about the periodic tables, WTF. However, what to do with what I make

fascinated me. And I spent a lot of time learning how to invest. And if you're listening to this, you get this already. I think that there's a lot of truth to the point that when most people are at their job and they're working, they're really not 100% focused on what they're doing. In fact, I would say if you looked at your eight hours of work that the typical person puts in, they do 15 to 20% of that time actually working. The rest of it is unfocused activities. If you have a big goal, you know you want to be a real estate investor, you don't want to buy a property. If you get really good at the job you already have, and you can get eight hours of work done in two or three hours, there's no reason why you shouldn't be pursuing your other goals as long as you're meeting your

obligations. Josh, you run a company. You're about to tell me that I shouldn't be telling people. What the hell? I'll tell you, there's people who work. That's some four hour work we pay somebody to do your job business. I know. There's people that work at Craig and Auto Parts. And when nobody's walking in the store and there's nothing to do, they sit around, they look at their phone, they go on Facebook, they're not doing productive activities. Whereas if they took that time and focused it on what's my goal, where do I want to get there, and then brought accountability into their life because they know someone's going to be calling me at the end of the week to ask if I did what I was going to do. Their life would look completely different. And for whatever reason, there's a lot of people

that don't even understand. That's a thing. And when you get around other people who think that way and are that way, you start to notice that there's tons of opportunity in your own life that you didn't even see was there. Set financial goals, not material ones. And I would just say, don't do what he said. When you're at the job, do you work because you also get angry. But, I mean, Tate, look, we all, we all putts around and do unproductive stuff, and you're completely right. But, you know, as an employer, I would say, try and be present for your job. But your employees don't listen to the podcast. Don't worry.

No, I mean, but look, you should be taking time and thinking, right? I mean, I think that's one of the things that all of us who are successful, you know, in this room, do more than the people who are unsuccessful, right? It's we stop and we actually think, right? And it's not just, I'm in the job and I'm, you know, what do you like to say watching Desperate Housewives or Dancing with the Stars? Yeah. I mean, like instead of going home and doing that, we're thinking, right? We're planning.

We're plotting. How can we do that? Okay, you could do a little bit at work. But like, you know, that's, I think, what needs to happen, taking that time that most people just, you know, drone away in their lives and being productive with it. Would you guys agree? When we were first setting up our peer partnership, we would start getting together in having just that thinking moments, where we would review one another's financial statements, review

where you're at with your life, your health, your fitness, your relationship with your kids. And thinking not just individually, but with the right peer group, thinking becomes just multiplied in effectiveness. So we would take vacations together where we would work one day, play one day, and then work one day the next, just to really focus. And Tim, it almost broke his heart one day. He was in steamboat with me, and we had like a 10-inch powder day, but we'd agree to work. And he worked that day.

But man, he let us know about it every time we talk to him from up to 10 years. The new role is we may get up early and do goals. We may do them late at night, but we get the goods in the woods. And how many of you like that? Do you guys like that piece of it? Yeah. And I'll interject really quick. One of the things that I did, this was about probably a year and a half, two years ago,

I met somebody very, very exceptionally successful was running a company and what they told me blew my mind. I was busy working, you know, ridiculous hours running my business and he said,

stop doing what you're doing. Like, I take a full day off every single week from being at the company. And this may not work at all stages, but it certainly worked

at latter stages and for me was incredibly powerful. I would take my Wednesdays off. I started taking my Wednesdays off. I didn't go into work. I didn't, you know, check a little bit

email, maybe if it's just the bare minimum. And that time was spent thinking, reading, learning, developing, and fostering relationships. None of that time was spent doing busy work. I think that allowed me to grow and allowed the company to grow dramatically. That time is so important, like, you know, we're trained to think that you just do, right? Success is not doing. In order to become successful, you really need to spend time thinking. You have to. Our education system, you know, the business gurus out there, I really don't believe put enough emphasis on this. And it's weird because every successful business person I've ever met spends more time thinking than doing anything else. So I just want to put that out there.

I'd be curious what you guys think about that. To me, it's thinking with an elevated heart rate out in the boonies. That's where you have. No, back to the goods in the woods. They've done so many studies. Dude, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's in the heck am I. And am I in the right place for where I'm supposed to be? And where might I need to course correct. Yeah, let's hit the next pillar. Actually, I was going to go there was accountability. That's what I want to ask you guys about. One of the things that's very unique about go bunnies. And I really haven't experienced it anywhere else is the level of transparency you have to have to be in the group. I mean, you have to share. I mean,

what your net worth is, what it changed from the year before, what your passive income is, what your weight is, what your goals are for all of these pillars, right? How your relationship is with your wife? Yeah, I mean, that comes up a lot, right? People are talking about things that they're not comfortable talking about most of the time. And what I find is that you share what you have going on and you have five or six other badass people who are now giving you advice

that may be succeeding in areas you're struggling. Can you guys share with us how you started that and how you feel like it's benefited your goals, including your real estate investing? You know, we just built layer upon layer. we started with Pat and I just doing money, wealth, accountability, productivity, building our businesses. We met Tim. Tim added in the health and the bucket list adventures.

We got sick of going to conferences with like just, they were talking head to us all the time. So we started having our own retreats where we'd go through our one sheets. And then we added... Pass it. Horizontal income. And we added, we added everything.

Basically, we got together with Rock Thomas and Mike McCarthy and we came up with something called a one sheet, which is a baseball card. But imagine a baseball card on the front. You got this guy with great teeth looking great, holding a baseball, right? You're like, man, hey, you know, you flip it over and it says it's stats, you know, everything about him. You know, and that's what it was. It was like wearing a baseball card on your own back that everybody could see.

But we found that without the transparency, you couldn't have authenticity. Without authenticity, you can't grow. And so you see, you meet a lot of successful people, and they just act like they're the greatest thing since sliced bread. They drive a Lamborghini. They got the nice Rolex watch, whatever. Everything's perfect in their life. And you're like, wow, that guy looks. amazing. And then you find they're divorced two years later or they're in jail because they were

doing coke or something crazy like that. And they were never honest with something. You can't help anyone if they don't tell you. What drives me crazy is people get up and they put up this image that everything's fine. Be real. If you got problems, share them. We can help you. But if you're not honest about it, no one can freaking help you. And these guys have helped me like brothers. The one sheet is impervious to BS. And the coolest thing about these two is they're extremely tough mastermind buddies. You cannot come weak. You cannot say you're going to do something to not do it. Pat Hybin will call you a false profit of the highest order. F-P-H-O.

And David, a few years ago, picked on something that was a weakness I needed to work on. And at first, it hurt. And it forced me to dig deep, make some changes, and I thank them for it. And think about that in your mastermind group, in your peer partnership. Do they really stand for you? There's been times all three of us have stormed out of a room or a hike or an auditorium or something because of something one of the three of us said. And, you know, we're all still together, but it's something that, you know, initially we're defensive about and eventually came around. Okay, so just really quick on this accountability thing again.

You know, for, I keep going with the average guy. That's you. So for the average guy or gal, you know, it is scary. It is scary to reveal these things. I mean, sharing your net worth, I mean, people don't even talk about money anymore. People don't talk about anything, right? It's verbatim. So how does somebody who's never done this before, who's not going to join this organization,

but who thinks the idea of finding somebody to work with, how do you do that? How do you begin to open up? How do you peel the onion on yourself and share that with somebody that you don't know? Because you don't, when you're first meeting somebody, when you're first developing these relationships. How do you really do that and feel safe and, you know, let that relationship foster? You know, I don't know if you can really answer that quite. It's kind of like you're in or you're out. I mean, like we say, a lot of people spin out.

I mean, I'll be honest. It was terrifying for me early on. I was afraid. I was hiding. And I had an illegitimate kid or a kid that was eight years old that I didn't know until she was eight. Whoa. I didn't know her until she. I used to tell people I had a niece.

I was embarrassed. I was a young man. Yeah, when I first met him, I didn't have kids. I would call it. I called my life, right? She came back in my life and I'm like, wow, I've got a niece. I'd say I got a niece. I'd say I got a niece.

I was afraid of being judged for having screwed up as a 19 year old and had a kid out of wedlock, right? So I was embarrassed by that. And I slowly, so you're all going to be afraid. You just got to. if you want to win, you've got to face the fear and start opening up. And today, it's so easy for me to be transparent, obnoxiously so, as you pointed out. But it's because all the wins I've got in life have been from being willing to be vulnerable. Even my relationship with my wife has gotten so better.

If I hadn't told my buddies in my tribe, hey, I'm struggling here. I don't know how to get my wife to be a really good assistant like I'm trying to get her to be. And all my friends educated me, dude, you are an idiot. You need to go in a different direction. And I slowly soaked it in over multiple years. Me and Tim took bets on the divorce. Now, I understand. I hope you paid off.

I know you were betting against me, but now I realize that I'm my wife's assistant. The light has shone on me. And so I'm here to serve her, and it's been a game changer for me. I have the best place I've ever had. And about six years ago, I'm like, it was so tough. I wasn't sure I was going to make it. And that's because of transparency. So now, of course, I'm addicted to transparency.

Yeah. Because all the goodness comes from it. That's great. Well, speaking in relationships, talking about your wife there, I want to talk about one of the other pillars here is authentic relationships, you know, whether that's where our spouse, or as a father or, you know, if you're listening to as a mother, how does that play into the, you know, I guess each of your lives? I mean, like, you have any tips or stories or, you know, just how is that

a big part of your life? Well, one thing we found, like when our wives first got together, the six of us got together, they were all blown away going, we all married the same guy. That is so true. And think about the same thing happened when we started the go wives. The go wives. And it takes a special lady to put up with our high energy personality, and a lot of you can relate. So that was something that I think it helped us having them be part of it and having them be every now and then. And if you're our part of a mastermind, it's good to get together and it's good to get together with the spouses and get to another family.

So back to the question, authentic relationship, you got to be an authentic person in the relationship to have it. So if you give it, it's reciprocity. They're all of reciprocity. You'll get it back. No facades, no bullshit. Yeah. Yep.

And I'm so grateful to guys in this room that have helped me with that. I mean, really, and to be a better father, too. Like, there's a lot of guys in here. Like, you've got your kids are number one. You only get them a short period of time. Somebody said me the other day, you got nine more summers with your, with Bella. Nine. Nine.

Nine more summers. And I'm grateful for that. Yeah. It's deep. When I bought my first rental, I thought collecting rent would be the hard part. Nope. The admin crushed me. Every night was receipts, tax forms, and checking who was late on rent.

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delinquency, and net promoter score, and they have the results to prove it. Go to mine.co slash show me to see how mine performs and get your first month free, which is much cheaper than learning the hard way. We had a great conversation with Jesse Itzler on the podcast. What was it, show 313? I think it was 313. And he talked about that. You know, you've only got so many minutes in your life if you think about it. And I'm 42 years old. Statistically, I've got less than 40 summers left.

Statistically, I've got less than X amount. I mean, you start thinking about life and numbers like that. It changes everything. And by the way, just to go off topic for a second, then I'll move it back on. You mentioned the go-wise. So Go-Bundance, for the people listening to this show, Go-Bundance is a, was for a long time, mostly a men's organization. and there's a 150 some millionaire men in this group. There is now a female version of as well.

So what was the email address for that lady? Jamie.hop at gmail.com. And we got some grief for not having ladies, but let me tell you why. If you got four guys being honest and a pretty girl comes and sits down at the table, what do you think happens to that honesty most of the time? Yeah.

The authenticity goes out the window we found with women in the room. Man, I got problems at work, chicks sits down. Oh, it's going amazing. I'm going to be a billionaire at no time. You should see my from Lamborghini I got out. Energy just wasn't the same. So rather than bring them in. in we created a separate division.

Yeah. Because we didn't want to seem like we were sex. Because they're going to be more authentic with themselves, being all women, than with dudes, you know, in the world. If we could only bridge the divide. Well, I think that's an important principle that the listeners can take into their own lives when they want to go start their own private mastermind or go to their own meetups and start talking to other investors. You don't want to be that transparent with someone that you just feel you can't trust. If you've got somebody in the group and you don't think they're, being honest or you don't think they're going to hold you accountable or the whole time they're just talking about themselves and they're not pouring back into you, don't think that just being in a mastermind itself is going to get you somewhere, right? It's what it can do for you. And I think that that's part of why you need to put a lot of time and effort into the people you're going to hang around. Because like Tim said about David, I like to water ski in other people's wake. A guy like Dave makes a big wake and there's a lot of opportunity for people that are around them. And I would

say for a lot of people that are listening and you're not hitting your goals. You're not getting where you want to go. You're probably not around anybody else's wake at all. You're probably trying to make your own way and you're not a very strong swimmer. And getting around the right people will have a huge, huge change in your life. Dude, I wouldn't be that half a man I am today if Pat Hive and didn't kick my ass on a regular basis when I was a young up-and-coming guy and didn't know my head from my butt. Yeah. Ditto. Yeah.

Both these guys. Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. All right. Let's move on to age-define health. One of other pillars, age-defined health. What do you guys do for taking care of your bodies and your health these days?

Well, Tim just runs around getting the goods in the woods. You know, life is all... Just stay active. Yeah, energy. We added that pillar because you can't build a successful business, as you were saying earlier, without health. Like, you got to have your health. You want to win big.

You got to win physically in order to have maximum energy to put to work, to put to use to your family, to serve others, to serve the community. So we start paying attention to that. Thanks to Tim. And now it's nutrition. It's exercise. It's just all the little things. And Dave, I'm so busy.

I mean, how can I do that? I'm busy. I wake up. I work at my company. I do it all day long. I mean, how's that even possible? Well, would you like to have an extra 20 years to work? Because if you don't take care of your body, you're going to die 20 years young.

Touching. Just make it happen. And then have a group where that's normal. Like at our groups, at our meetings, we always go ski before we meet. We ski all day. We start the meetings at four and run until 10 or 11. Yeah, it's a time management thing. Yeah.

I mean, how's Mark Wahlberg work out four hours a day? Yeah. Did you see his schedule? Woo. Yeah. I made a video. It's time management, dude. It's time management.

Yeah, it is all that. And you learn that by being around guys that are doing it. Very cool. All right. So we went through Age Divine Health, authentic relationships, bucket list adventures. Where's your favorite place to each of you that you've been on bucketless adventures? And what is a bucketlet adventure?

So bucket list. So we don't like, okay, so we just had 27 guys in this room get back from Japan. And, you know, there was a time, obviously in the beginning. We thought David and I went to Africa with Mike and we're like, we're weird. No one else could get away from their relationships for two weeks and go climb Killy. And then we found, oh, no, there's a lot of weird people like us, you know. And so when we go on these vacations, we're like nonstop, and we do rather than see. So we're constantly doing things like samurai sword fighting or going to some spiritual retreat under cold water in the middle of the jungle in Japan or riding Mario Carts through Tokyo and day after day of ADD activities.

Those to us are bucket list adventures. While we're riding through Japan, 27 of us on a bus going over our one sheets holding their each other accountable. Yeah, talking about net worth and weight and body fat and relationships with our wives and everything. On our way to the Mario Carts. Why is that important? Why is it important to get away? To be successful in life, you have to be able to shift consciousness, right?

5% of people are successful, so that means one out of 20. So they've had a shifted consciousness to success. By going to a foreign country and throwing yourself in a completely alien place and getting fully engaged in a different culture or climbing a mountain or whitewater rafting in Norway, you are forcing yourself out of your normal state. You're breaking all your patterns. You're then having conversations with high-minded guys that are successful entrepreneurs, which opens up your mind to new possibilities. When you come back to work, you're reborn, refreshed and ready to go with a new perspective and a new appreciation of life. What if you can't afford it? Like what if somebody doesn't have the money to go on? Go to Grand Canyon. When I was poor, I drove to the Grand Canyon. When I was having depressed moments, I would go hiking and say. someplace like Big Ben National Park didn't cost me crap. Yeah. Yeah.

And we've had a lot over the years brand and you and I have chatted a lot about four hour work week, a book I finally read after. Good job. Much prodding. And I think one of the things that Tim Ferriss captured best for me was, you know, life is not just about work, right? I mean, if you want to live your life, you've got to experience, you've got to feel, you've got to get emotion, right?

That's work, funds life. That's all. There you go. Not the other way around. A lot of people like their entire life is work. You work to live, you don't live to work. There you go. I like that.

That's what I was trying to say. You cleaned it up for me. All right. So the last one, we went through, Age Define Health, we went through authentic relationships, bucketless adventures, extreme accountability.

We talked about horizontal income. And the last one was genuine contribution. What does that have to do with wealth? I mean, like, why would you give away money if you want to be wealthy? Well, they say the great ones, spend the first half of their life making it and the second half giving it back. So if you think about that, and I know a lot of listeners are on that path we were, but along the way, why not give back?

Why not find who could use the mindset that we have and reach down and lift them up? So that's what Gobundance has done. We have a charity called OneLifefullyLiv.org. It's the number one, onelifefully live.org. And that's Gobendence's Charity of Choice. And what we do is we take the teachings of GoBundance and bring that to people who never get this message. And that's something to check out. We have a conference this fall, October 11th through 13th in Long Beach, California. Please check us out. And we'd love to see you there.

Everything we do is dirt cheap. So you will get on a plane and come join us. And if you can't come to GoBundance, why not go to one life? So a life without contribution is not a life worth living. I mean, the reason to be a great business person is so you can make a great difference in your community. On every international trip, we go on, we spend a contribution day. When we were in Vietnam, we re-roofed a school and played with the kids. When we were in Peru, we went to a mountain village and we built fire pits and replaced roofs.

And they probably didn't need us there. We were probably useless, but we paid for it all. And we got the benefit of being in the cold, wet mud and using pig shit to hold the bricks together and mud. And then, like, so these people, they were guys, they were dying because they were cooking over open fires. They can't afford a closed fire. So we built like seven and we paid for like 15 or something like that. We just sent $20,000 to Patagonia and so they could buy lumber and stuff. And we're going to build a house there this year together.

We're all going to build a house. And you know what the favorite name for everybody on these trips is? The contribution day. Why? Well, like, how does it? Because it's meaning. It gives you meaning. What does that mean?

Is it a feeling? Is it what? So we built these stoves. The people are helping us kind of laughing at our. incompetence, but we're working, we're contributing. And then all the kids came and played with us. We taught them how to play Ultimate Frisbee on the Frisbee cord in there. It's just fun. You're doing it for no money. You're not making a thing from it, but you're committing and contributing to a community of people, and it's just touching. And these are people who never had hot water.

They had hot water on an open fire, but never saw where we were able to make a little faucet in their house and water came out and it was hot and they couldn't figure out in their heads how that happened. they were perplexed. So, you know, the thing that I take away from it is something that I'm deep into right now, which is this exploration of happiness. And it seems to me that the giving back part is a contribution to the happiness, right? You derive joy out of, you know, you've built this wealth, or even if you haven't yet done that, you know, giving of your time creates some kind of joy in you.

I believe. You think you're giving to them, but you actually receive so much more bad. It's a little selfish for a lot of people. It's unbelievable. You feel amazing. It's the most underrated gift there is. It really is. So I add one more piece to that.

I was doing research a while back for the journal that we launched, The Bigger Pockets recently. And I came across this article from, I wish I knew the guy I don't have it in front of me because we're live in front of a bunch of people. But this New York Times, calmness, whatever, did this research where they studied people who gave away money.

And not only does it's like giving me, make you happier and doesn't make you, it makes you healthier and all these things, but it actually makes you wealthier. So they did the study and said an average family, and I'm probably going to butcher the exact number, basically if there's two identical families, everything's the same about them, but one gives an extra $100, they will earn back, like an extra $300. Like just the act of giving away money does something in our human heads that releases maybe it's our hold on money or the way we view money and actually makes us earn more money. It far more than we gave. The more generous I've been, the more money I've made just consistently.

through my entire life. Yeah, there's something about that. And that's why I think like every religion has something about that in there. I mean, every faith says it over and over and over. It's better to give than the receive and to, it's good to donate, you know, and it's, again, maybe it's a selfish way of looking at it, but it's almost more of a, you know, if somebody's saying, well, I don't want to give money away because I don't, you know, I don't have much.

Well, give and then you'll likely have more. I mean, not, it's not a guarantee, but it's a mindset thing. Yeah. Last question. My last question. You guys are all extremely successful. particularly you three. I mean, David over here, like,

Hey, look at us. We got a microphone. What drives you? What gets you waking up every day, working, building? You got 73 horizontal lines of whatever the heck, you know, income that you guys have got. I mean, why do you continue working? What motivates you to keep doing that? Why do you give away?

You know, why not sit on a beach and, well, you hang out. out in the woods and do your thing. How about these two? He meets animals. Well, he actually gives a lot back to one life fully lived. He puts money, time, treasure into that in a massive scale. You should not underestimate that. You know, for me, it's like the gamification of life.

It's can I be an incredible dad, a great husband, contribute to my community, give away a ton of money, build businesses, make money. For me, it's as much seeing new guys come up in my organization that I help create opportunities for that they take ownership of, seeing them win. It's a fulfilled life. man, if you don't want to stop. Like, I took a vacation the other day, and after the seventh day, my daughter was telling me what to do, my wife was telling me what to is like, this is what would be like.

If I didn't have a job, I'd be at home. My kids would be telling me what to do and my wife would be telling what to do. I'd rather make a difference in the world on a massive scam. Good for you. I'm kind of in the middle between these guys. I mean, the older I get, the more I dislike working, you know, to be honest with you. I just don't like it. You know what I mean?

And so I'm growing. I'm growing in that direction. But I think we're just born this way. I don't, you know, I don't know if anything drives me other than just being Pat Hybin. I'll let him go first and all that. I wake up every morning between around 5 o'clock and say, let me at him to make a difference in the lives through one life. And that's what's driving me now.

It was real estate. And then it was getting the goods and the family. And I'm still got the family stuff. One life's what gets me up every morning. Yeah. Yeah. For me, so when I was like 22, I remember having this horrible job. I hate it.

I look forward. I mean, I dread going to work. I'd get to work, stare at the clock. I mean, some of you all know what I'm talking about. You're just like, how is it only 805? You know, and like you watch it all day long moving. And my wife at the time had this car. It didn't defrost very well.

She had to drive to Starbucks at 3.30 in the morning where she worked. And she'd have to stick her head out the window. And it's like, you know, 25 degrees in raining. And the only way she'd get to work, is by sticking her head out the window. I remember what that was like, and it sucks. Like, I know a lot of people are like, I was so happy when I was poor.

And I'm not saying wealth makes you happy, but that sucked. And I don't want people to go through that. Like, I remember, and I'm like, if I can help more people go from that, and not just the money and whatever, just like the life of pain. And I use the word pain in the full sense of the word

of like any discomfort or problems or whatever, relational, I mean, any of these pillars, right? to move from that to abundance. That's what I'm just, that's what drives me. David? I think that you're going to experience pain one way or another. You're going to experience the pain of transparency and accountability and commitment and feeling

like an idiot because every time you start something new, you always suck at it no matter who you are. Nobody picks up a snowboard and crutches it on their first try. Or you're going to experience the pain of regret and your life being harder than it needs to be because you didn't do the things in the beginning and you're sticking your head out the window of your car, as you're driving around. It's cold, right?

So you kind of got to pick your poison. You're going to pay for it one way or the other. What's cool about joining a group of people that are on the same journey as you is pain is always better when there's someone to share in the suffering. I mean, the best relationships I have were the guys that I went to the police academy with and went through working on the force with or played basketball with. There's something about intense suffering that bonds people together and makes it easier to go through.

For the lone wolves that are out there and they don't want to be transparent, I would just say you're making your life harder and let that pain drive you to get over the things that are preventing you from taking those steps forward. That's good. And Josh, what do you think? What drives you? I think what drives me today is a little different than what drove me before. I mean, today I chatted with the different group earlier here and talked about happiness.

And that's what drives me. And it's not just the quest for my own happiness. I think it's the quest to help people be happy. And as I look back, you know, 14 years ago when I started Bigger Pockets, and before that, when I was a teacher, I think what I realized about myself is I derive joy from helping people learn, helping people succeed. And for me, it's a little selfish, as I was saying earlier. I mean, but it's not always fun.

But I get joy out of doing that. And so what drives me today is kind of this quest to solve my own happiness, figure out, you know, how do I become a happier person? How do I help my children and my wife be happier, my family, my community, my friends? And then, you know, I mean, we've got a big old megaphone. You know, how do I help thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of people figure out what it means? How do we stop being so mad and angry and stressed all the time with each other?

You know, how do we kind of kumbaya, right? How do we come together? Dear, because, you know, life is short. Nobody's got time for all that anger. Good. All right. So I want to transition to the last segment of the show. We got to get out of here so on and we're way over our time.

And the last segment of our show is something that we lovingly refer to as our famous for. Famous for. All right. This is the part of the show where we ask the guests. every single week, the exact same questions. Four questions. We're going to fire them quickly at you guys and let you just each answer.

Question number one, I'll go and then we'll just, I guess, move down. A favorite real estate related book other than anything you've written. And if you don't have one, that's fine. You can just say, you know, nothing comes in mind. Cashful quadrant. Cashful quadrant. Kiyosaki, all right? Or retire young, retire rich.

Richest man in Babylon. Love the pillars at it, Tom. Love it. How to invest in real estate. How to invest in real estate. There we go. Look at that. Wow.

I just forgot that one. Damn, we blew it. All right. Well, you get a chance to redeem yourselves. What is your favorite business book? Yeah. Wow. It could grow rich or, you know, that's not really a business book.

Yeah, it is. No, think of rich. Yeah, sure. All time. I mean, the classics are, I still love the, as a man, think of this is my number one book. You know, I keep that in my car and read it at stoplights. I mean, it's just, I can keep reading over and over again. And that's me honking you.

I love the e-miff because of, and I think with one life fully live, we're trying to teach people the business of their life, if you think about that. That's good. All right. Oh, that's my turn. Hobbies, what do you do for fun? Golf and adventure travel. I have a new puppy, and I walk her like 12 times a day.

My name's Tim. I'm a skiaholic. Goods in the woods. The last question of the day, and I'll ask you to this. What do you believe sets apart successful? I'll call it not just real estate investors, but just successful people from those who give up on their dreams. They fail once they get started or they just never get started.

What separates those people if you had to boil it down? I think an open-mindedness, a growth-mindedness, a willingness to look like a fool. You're going to look like a fool all the time. And if you're willing to step into that foolishness, you'll grow. And if you want to hide from it, you'll stay the same. much right. And I think it's a hunger to make money and a hunger to just keep going until you make money. And then when you do make money, don't blow it, you know, invest it. Yeah. And I'd say it's a hunger to

learn and just to surround yourself with the people who can take you there. And the courage to reach out to who in your town is the best investor that you could buy breakfast or lunch with. And call them right now. That's great. And call them people out right now. Boom. Whatever you're doing right now. This episode. Pick up the phone. Call somebody. All right. Well, thank you guys so much.

Can I just get a round of a plus for these guys? I mean, I have... Thank you guys so much. Thank you. Namaste. And that is our show. For the first time ever, this is David Green for Brandon and Josh. Signing off.

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