BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 328: How to Laser-Focus on the Wildly Important With Author Chris McChesney

Episode Date: May 3, 2019

If you’ve ever had an interest in turning your desire to invest in real estate into a well-oiled business machine, today’s episode is for you! Chris McChesney, bestselling author of The 4 Disciplines of Execution, shares some mind-blowing strategies recognized worldwide for their ability to help followers achieve more success! Chris shares the difference between lead and lag activities, how to use the power of leverage to move your business forward, and how staying busy isn’t always in your best interest. He also shares eye-opening insight into the way we use confirmation bias to avoid making progress, how to break major wars into smaller, winnable battles, and the secret of “tendency override.” Chris has developed an amazing system using four key strategies to improve your odds to succeed and has implemented them with companies like Coca-Cola, Comcast, The Ritz-Carlton, and more! Don’t miss this episode chock full of actionable advice for improving your life, as well as your business! In This Episode We Cover: The difference between lag and lead activities How to use the power of leverage to move your business forward How staying busy isn’t always in your best interest How to identify your most important goal The secret to losing weight—and how to apply it to real estate What most business owners do wrong How confirmation bias clouds your vision Learning the secret of “tendency override” Breaking major wars down into small battles How to keep your goals small to make sure you achieve them How to avoid giving in to self-victimization How to develop a scorecard to track your progress How to use accountability to stay on track And SO much more! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Webinar BiggerPockets Youtube Channel BiggerPockets Podcast 234: Tenants, Evictions, & The Dark Side of No Money Down with Ryan Murdock (Podcast) My Body Tutor My Fitness Pal BiggerPockets Instagram Brandon’s Instagram David’s Instagram Books Mentioned in this Show The 4 Disciplines of Execution by Chris McChesney Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki The ONE Thing by Gary Keller Essentialism by Greg McKeown Stephen R. Covey’s The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People The 12 Week Year by Brian P. Moran 90 Day Journal by Brandon Turner As a Man Thinketh by James Allen Built to Last by Jim Collins Good to Great by Jim Collins Tweetable Topics: “The real enemy of execution is your day job.” (Tweet This!) “You can be busy all day long and not be a step closer to your goal.” (Tweet This!) “The most strategic work you do will feel like you’re wasting time.” (Tweet This!) “If we don’t track, we lie to our selves.” (Tweet This!) “Make and keep a promise to yourself.” (Tweet This!) “If you think the problem is out there, that very thought is your problem.” (Tweet This!) Connect with Chris Chris McChesney’s Bio Chris McChesney’s Speaker Site Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 328. Congratulations. You can be busy all day long and not be a step closer to your goal. If you just follow your tendencies, your tendencies and often your emotions are not your best friends. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online.

What's going on, everyone, today? Wait, that's not how I ain't show these things. What's going on, everyone? I'm so excited. How do I start these podcasts? Oh, wait. With your name. Okay.

My name. There you go. What's going on, everyone? This is Brandon Turner, host of the Bigger Pockets podcast. And that's how I do it. here with my co-host, Mr. David Green. David Green, what's up, buddy? It's been a while since we recorded one of these, like two weeks.

Yeah, you've lost like 25 pounds in the meantime. You also, it's been so long you forgot how to do the intro. That was like our fourth take trying to get that out. Yeah, that was funny. All right, well, we figured it out. So, no, I'm just so pumped up from today's show. And I know, okay, listen, I'll say something important here. I say this a lot, that today was one of my favorite shows ever.

I say that a lot because every time I get done recording a show, it's like one of my favorite shows. I'm going to go on a limb here and say, this is not one of my favorite shows. It is my favorite show we've recorded. At least like as long as I can remember. I mean, I am obsessed with this show,

with this concept, with the book that the author's coming on and talk about today. I mean, David, is obsessed a good word? Is there another word? Like, just like, awkwardly obsessed? You're totally bought in. The totally bought in it.

There you go. I'm a big supporter for DX. Now, like, it's going to sound like they're paying me money to tell them, tell you to go read this book. But I swear, like, this is just because this concept for DX completely changed how I operate my entire life. Think of it like an operating system. Like, if you have, you install Windows on your computer, the computer is like you're,

you as a person, right? But the thing that runs your computer is the operating system, Windows or, you know, Mac has their own version like Yosemite or whatever it's called. Anyway, this is the operating system, how I function. I mean, this is how I was able to lose like 40 pounds, like over the past, you know, years, like the same concept, how I was able to double my cash flow over the last three or four months in my rental business, how I'm buying a bunch of properties this year, how I improve my marriage, my spiritual life, how we're potty training and teethbrush training my daughter.

All of my entire life is built on this framework. Even before I knew what this framework was, this just kind of put words to it. So anyway, don't mind my super excited fan girl in this. episode, life-changing stuff, at least it was for me. I hope it is for you as well. So anyway, well, before we get to the interview, which I'm excited to bring to you, let's first get to today's quick tip. All right, today's quick tip, nice and simple. Did you know that Bigger Pockets has a YouTube page? That's right, a YouTube channel. And there's a ton of stuff going on over there. Like, I produce a ton of content.

David produces content. In fact, one of the recent pieces of content I put out there, It's called How to Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck. We might even take it and throw it up here on a podcast episode soon because people really seem to like this thing. Another one, the most powerful word in the English language, check that out. Working on a lot of good stuff there. And again, we're getting David's face up there as well. So, you know, check it out, biggerpockets.com slash YouTube or YouTube.com slash bigger pockets.

Either one is going to get you there. And that is today's quick tip. Cool. Oh, by the way, when you go to the YouTube, do me a fair and click that little subscribe. button on the YouTube page that definitely helps our YouTube channel grow. Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle, active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress? Here's a better question. What if you could buy brand new construction homes, 10% below market value in the best markets across the country,

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Well, you can. Airbnb has something called the co-host network. While you're away, you can hire a vetted local co-host with hosting experience to help take care of things, communicating with guests, preparing your space, managing reservations, everything runs smoothly while you're off making memories. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. There are two kinds of real estate investors, those who have reviewed their insurance, and those who think that they have. Most don't realize their coverage wasn't built for how they actually invest. Vacancy periods, rehabs, rehabs, short-term rentals or LLC-held properties. These gaps surface only when filing claims. That's why investors work with NREG. They specialize exclusively in real estate investors, understanding portfolios, risk at scale, and cash flow protection. One claim can erase years of returns. If you own a rental property, don't assume you're covered.

Have NREG review your insurance with someone who gets investing at NREG.com slash BPPOD. That's N-R-E-I-G.com slash B-Pod. All right. And with that, we got no more further introduction here. Other than I'll say this, make sure you leave ratings and reviews for this show, The Bigger Pockets Podcast, if you like it, if you're enjoying it, if you think this is powerful, it definitely helps us reach more people.

So just head over to iTunes or whatever you're listening to this on, Google Play, Stitch, or whatever, but leave a rating and a review. It just totally helps us out. All right. Now that's said, it's time to get to the interview. So today's guest is Chris Machesney. Chris is a co-author of a book called The Four Disciplines of Execution. He's also a consultant.

He's a speaker. There's a lot of keynote stuff. But like I said, this book, the four disciplines of execution is definitely the best business book I've read at least in the past decade, maybe of my entire life. I mean, I put it up there with Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and other books like that. It just blew my mind. So again, like I said earlier, I have been looking forward to this interview since the day I read this book.

I'm pumped and you'll definitely hear it today. It is a long interview, but I highly encourage you listen to the entire thing, even if it takes like a couple trips, you know, a couple commutes to work or a couple different gym sessions. Listen to the whole thing. It just gets better and better and better as it builds. And each step of the four disciplines builds upon the previous. So we're super lucky to have Chris today. So with that, let's get to the interview. All right, Chris, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast, man.

Really good to have you. Woo! I'm excited to be here. All right, good. Good. All right. So people have been probably hearing me. like Muse Award four disciplines of execution or 40X. I've given multiple speeches over the last

like six months where I talk about this. Probably every other podcast I mentioned it. To say I'm obsessed would be putting it lightly. So like as soon as I read this book, actually true story, how I found this book. I was at story time with my daughter and my wife at the library and we were like doing little kid's story time and like my daughter was doing, I don't know, some drawing after the story time. And I was won around the library. I haven't been a library in like a couple of years. And I used to be obsessed. And anyway, I'm walking through the business section and there There's this book called The Four Disciplines of Execution. And I started thinking, you know, I'm really good at ideas.

And I know that my biggest problem in life is execution, getting things done. And I was like, oh, there's a book called Four Disciplines of Execution. Well, you know, I said to read in the back. I'm like, yeah, this looks pretty interesting. So I got the book from the library. I read the entire thing in like a day. And then I turned around and got to the end and started it over and read the whole thing again. And I've now read it five or six times now.

Like I'm like, yeah, that's how obsessed I was. Because like this is, it's like, it was like the missing piece to what. like I didn't have, and that was my ability to sometimes execute. So anyway, I'll tell you, the, you know, I know the makeup of your audience and the number of entrepreneurs, and I've always been an entrepreneur that got stuck in a corporate environment. I am not, I'll tell you, I hope no one chooses not to listen after this, but I'm not inherently good at this stuff. Like, I didn't, I didn't fall in love with a solution.

I fell in love with a problem. Yeah. And this has been, this has been like riddling for me. that ADD, ADHD chip tends to run pretty strong in the entrepreneurial world. We are idea people. And I probably needed this as much as anybody. That's awesome. I actually think that's like the fall in love of the problem is the best way to like, you know,

figure out the solution to things and be able to work through it. And so let's go through. I mean, I'm going to go through. I want to go through and spend some time obviously on each of the four disciplines. But before we kind of get it out, so there's this guy named Derek Sivers. He's a, he's in a TED Talk. He's been on a bunch of podcasts. But Derek Sivers is like an author slash thought leader.

And he has this quote that I use all the time. It says, if more information was the answer, then we would all be billionaires with six-pack apps, right? And I love that quote because, like, it just shows that information alone is not what we need. Like, people listen to this podcast might say, well, this isn't directly about how to buy a rental property or how to flip a house.

Why should I listen to this? Because all the people just want the information. Like I told you earlier before we started recording, all I did in the beginning was read real estate investing books. I wish I would have started reading books like this earlier on. So can you talk about why, like, why is information not enough? Why is, why is just knowing how to do something not enough? I mean, if we know how to invest, why aren't more people investing?

Like, what's that difference? It's so funny. But for an hour ago, I'm on the phone with a guy who is in these peer groups inside of the animal hospital world. Okay. So small business. Okay. All over.

They've got a couple thousand members into the little groups of 20. And he's talking about give me the answers. Like, let's figure out what the leads are. Let's figure out what the lags are. And then let's publish them. Let's just get them out to everybody. And I said, that's a great idea. I said, you have teenagers.

He said, yeah, I said, while you're at it, you and your wife sit down for an hour and write all of your best life lessons, put it in memo form, and then just give it to the kids. Yeah, you're done. You're going to save a ton of time.

And it's like, oh, all right, all right. Like, learning, learning is like a really complex thing. And we see that we get frustrated. in our own lives, like things, things that I thought I knew, I didn't know. And so, yeah, it's, it's a layered process, I guess. Yeah, it is. Yeah. And I, I struggle a lot with, like, this idea where I know I should do things. And I know that, like, here's a good real estate example, right? So I know that I should go and analyze some deals or I should go do this. But then I just kind of, like, I'll look back and like, wow, I haven't done anything in like three weeks or I haven't

done anything in a month. Like, the most important thing in my life, like financial independence or wealth or some of the most some of the most important things in my life I'll go weeks or months without working on because but I'm so busy right I'm so busy and there's this line in the book where I'm going to read this you said the real enemy of execution is your day job we call it the whirlwind so I want to I want to preface that because this is a problem that's a jump off point right there brand it that's the whole the whole thing the whole thing lives inside that little dichotomy you just explained yeah explain that talk about that so so here's here's how I like to think about it. I think everybody, and maybe there's some exceptions out there, but to my knowledge,

everybody has a generic, universal human flaw. And we don't think it's a big deal. And the flaw manifests itself as a tendency to move to urgency instead of importance. And I want you to think about that, some people have a hard time with that distinction. Urgency is anything that requires immediate attention. Importance is just the relative impact. And we know that this exists. I'm, I'm, Maybe I'm working. It's almost what you said, Brandon. I'm working on the biggest project of the year. I got to have three hours of concentrated time. Why did I just open that email? What is wrong with me? But here's the thing. We don't think that's a big deal because we can override the tendency. Right? Oh, it's, how did it be for a, right? Oh, but it's okay. I'll override. We don't think it's a big deal until we realize that every goal and the effort associated with every goal we set in the moment, those activities will never feel as urgent as the day job, what we call the whirlwind. So they say the beginning of wisdom is the definition of terms. Like the whole conversation starts by sort of delineating in your mind and every entrepreneur,

every person can do this. Day job, whirlwind, right? It's got this frenetic energy to it, which is life support. Everything I have to do to maintain the operation. That has an inherent advantage that it always feels urgent. So if you just sort of understand that you're not crazy, you're human, and you then start to recognize, all right, I got to deal with this situation, and I got to respect the problem. The problem is I have an internal built-in default that takes me to urgency. I knew I should have done this research three weeks ago. Now I got to make a decision.

I don't have the research. How did I get myself in this mess? that that's the jumping off point for all of this work is that that one problem between urgency and importance yeah that's fantastic and and and when we say day job like we're referring to right like not just necessarily like the 9 to 5 you have but it's like it's all of the things that have to get done in life that's not the most important like the life support yeah i got to get the kids i can't get the kids out of the house because i got to get their shoes on yeah yeah and we lost one of the damn shoes and the computer just broke and it's just it's just it's just getting through the survival

part and and you know Peter Drucker the management guru said that work is like kind of like a guess it will fill the available time a lot of yeah yeah so you can be congratulations you can be busy all day long and not be a step closer to your goal if you just follow your tendencies your tendencies and often your emotions are not your best friends. Yeah. And one of the things we're doing with four disciplines is we're initiating tendency override. You got to break, you got to break tendencies at every one of these discipline levels. And if you know it's not that hard. So I, I would say that some of the best books, I don't always say it, but I'll say that some of the best books out there are the ones that have put words to like the feelings that I had that I knew existed like this reality,

right? The book Rich Dad Port had changed a lot of people's life. And I'll say, but I'll say that, of people's lives. Yeah, right. Right, because they like put words to what we all fell. Like, there was something there. And it was like, oh, now I get it. Cash flow or, you know, wealth, financial freedom. And like this book, what it did for me is that term the whirlwind, like it identified because like I was like, well, how do I get this stuff done? I'm so busy. And what I love is that it takes this concept of like, look, you're going to be busy. Like we're not like, you're not saying like, you know, there's books that I love like the one thing or essentialism. Like those are books that I love or any like book on like you need to focus.

You need a focus. I know that. The problem is I can't. Like, I can't not take my daughter to the beach. I can't not go and jog in the morning. Those are part of my life that I have to do. So I can't have one thing only that I focused on. And so what I love about this, it's like defining.

Look, you're going to have a whirlwind. That's fine. Let's manage it. Let's make sure that at least a piece of your day, we can pull out of the whirlwind to move things forward, right? You said it just right. Every leader, every business owner, every thoughtful person that's trying to get ahead, those two things. And these two things, they don't like each other. The first thing they know is

I absolutely have to focus or I'm never going to excel. They know that. And the other thing they know, there's 20 things that need my immediate attention right now. Both those things are real and they don't get along. And you're right. You need a framework or a mechanism to say, okay, all right, I have to respect the day job. If I ignore the whirlwind, I died today. Yep. But if I ignore the goal, you know, I'm going to die tomorrow. And what are the, I work for Franklin Covey, Stephen Covey. If you know, seven habits of highly affected people, right? I was a groupie of his in the early 90s, right? I worked for him for four months before they realized they didn't hire me. And they literally got called into HR. It was like an episode of Seinfeld, only they didn't

fire me. Like, Kramer got fired, right? That's funny. But, but, but I was so, I was so taken with him, and it was this one idea. Covey believed that the real magic was in principles, that best practices were kind of a dime a dozen. But if you could find a principle, it was like a law of nature, and it would have universal application, and it would always be relevant. So this guy, he had this ability to not only understand what the principles were, but how to apply. them. And so I think in our subconscious, as we, over the last 20 years, as we've been developing this methodology, we took a Stephen Covey approach to say, okay, where's the principle? Like, if this contradiction exists, that I'm always going to lose to the urgency and that it's

in nature, what are the principles for overcoming that? They're universal and apply everywhere. So that was kind of the, that's kind of the foundation. Okay. Perfect. Yeah. And I think that's so important. again, because you can go through weeks or months of your life and not have that made any impact on the important thing, like the actual goals you have. And so now we've got to define the problem. This is what, and I think we all know it exists. Like you said, we should focus and we can't always. So let's let's maybe shift in and go talk about the four disciplines. I mean, like one by one through them and I got a ton of questions for each of them. And I literally have been looking forward to the interview.

Like from the first time I read this book, I'm like, I totally got to get this guy. I'm going to have them on the podcast. I'm going to unload all my questions. And anyway, yeah. So let's go through the four disciplines on how we overcome this whirlwind. How do we pull that up? So number one, let's go through the first one. All right. First one is focus on the wildly important.

I don't even know that I'm in love with what the names and what we called them. Sure. But what this is about is really the delineation. In my mind, this is about delineating between the day job and the plus one. The one thing you're going to get. when Marriott rolled this out, one of their leaders said, you know, to a group that was piloting it, you know, hey, Marriott, if you want to keep your job, manage the whirlwind, you'll always have a job. You want to get promoted.

Give me one more. Give me a plus one. And you think about it for a small business owner, hey, if you want to stay employed, if you want to survive, if you want to pay your mortgage, manage your day job. Yep. You'll survive. Yep. You want to grow. You want to hit your goals.

You got to do a plus one. And so discipline one, focus on the wildly important, is sort of understanding what's the target that I'm going to apply a disproportionate amount of energy to, or I'm going to apply a treatment to. So the four disciplines are a treatment you apply to a target. Now, I say that, and you cut me off, whenever you want to jump in, Brandon, you cut me off. But let me just put one quick caveat that I wish we would have emphasized more in the book. don't go big. What do you mean? Don't go.

Okay, well, my goal is revenue this year. Don't go super big. You can't have that as a goal, but that's not the target we're looking for in discipline one. Because if the big goal represents the sum totality of all of your work, then you haven't narrowed your focus. You just gave it a label. You cheated.

So the way to think about this, I think is to say, look, if profitability or revenue this year or number of deals or whatever the macro objective is, if that's the title of the book, then the first discipline is identifying what's the critical chapter that's going to make that possible, right? There's a whole variety of things, and that's where our focus gets so diluted. So in addition to the day job, right, In addition to the 80% I got to maintain what's the thing I'm going to zero in on that I'm going to apply disproportionate focus against. I'm already focusing on all the things that drive total deals or net revenue across the top. Go down one level of abstraction to what's the critical chapter.

Right? I'm trying to bring on new people. If I could get every new associate to pay for themselves in the first year, I am unstoppable. I want to make sure that every deal I turn has a net return within a certain amount of time. I've got some, there's some component that if that component was achieved, it would have a profound effect on the big objective. And then finally, last piece of discipline one is it cannot stay a concept. What do you mean? Lead the world in space exploration was a concept.

Right? Yep. Doing smarter deals is a concept. Put a man on the moon by the end of the decade and return them safely home is a target. Targets have three components. They have a starting line. They have a finish line and they have a deadline. And they have to be stated in a numeric.

It's very difficult to execute on a concept. If you're frustrated, you might be trying to execute. And to you, it's a very real thing. It's very tangible. But can you put it in a single metric? Like putting a man on the moon and returning him safely home by the end of the decade, that didn't meet all the criteria for leading the world in space exploration, but it didn't matter.

Because once we had that, we crushed them. Chris, it sounds like what you're talking about is the lead measures, lag measures. Is that where you're going with this? I will, but not just yet, although a lot of, there is some cause and effect in what I'm talking about. So we're still in the world of lag measures right now, but our starting point has to, to be a subset or we haven't narrowed the focus. So the lag, I'm just talking about the lag, David, and it's got to be very, very specific. And this, this is defining, because it's in what we call X to Y by when, or pick your terminology, starting line, finish line, deadline, and it's a

subcomponent, right? It is a metric on its own. It is a measure, and that we call the lag measure of execution. Yeah. Like if you were to say from, you know, 200 pounds to 180 pounds by February 3rd. Perfect. From X to Y. Right. Which is so different.

That's a target. Lose weight is a concept. Perfect, Brandon. Yeah. Yeah. And I know a lot of people have this target or a vision of like, I want, we'll call it financial independence. I want to have more money coming in from my business or my investments than what I spend

every month. And a ton of people that listen to the show have that. concept. That's fine. Like a default goal. Yeah. They have this concept. But like I'm always encouraging people. And David here is always encourage people.

Like what does that look like? Like what is that whether what's that number look like? When are you going to get there? And so I, but I want to take that. Let's just say, okay, fine. We're going to take the concept of financial freedom. Is it okay just to have a wildly important goal like your wig, as you kind of call it in the book, a wig.

Is it okay to have a wig of, okay, good. I want $10,000 a month by $2,000.25. Like, is it okay to have a wig that big and far away, or should people focus that in smaller? It's a really good question. The designation of wig is just a, it's a construct we invented that means wildly important goal. You can have other goals, other objectives, other things that you want to go after. But we use that terminology wig to mean this is the target where we're going to apply muscle. We're going to apply treatment. And so because that's, what that designation means, it's not helpful if it's too long. Like, like I can have a purpose

statement. I can have a future objective. Call it what you want out there. It could be just as meaningful, but Whig designates, I'm going to apply this set of disciplines. I'm going to put this muscle against that. So for that reason, we want it to be inside a year and we want it to be a subcomponent of macro big picture objectives. And getting people to think. I think small is super hard for some reason. They always want to go up top. I was, can I give a little example? Yes, please, please.

Yeah. All right, so we're working with, I've got a bunch of different groups of people to do different stuff. And one was a small accounting firm. And they had as their wig, like everybody does, revenue this year. I said, okay, you can do that, but all your activities lead up to that. I said, is there, is there a subcomponent? of revenue that's really valuable. Like, to your audience, I would say,

is there a type of investment that really rings, or is it the Bachman-Turner-Overdrive concept that any love is good love? I took what I could get, right? No, no, no. Or is it? And they said, no, no, no, advisory revenue. Like, there's a type of client that we get, right?

In your world, there's a type of investment. And wow, when we get one of those, it really rings the bell. And so what they did is, instead of having macro revenue, they went down and they said increase advisory revenue from X to Y by went. And then when they did that, while the lead measures came alive, the rest of the process came alive. But for whatever reason, it's not a natural jump.

Yeah. Well, let me give you a couple examples that I've given. And please, if I get these wrong, correct me, please. But a couple things that I've been talking lately about. So we have a thing called a 90 day challenge. I do have a bigger pockets every like three or four months. It's like a class, you call a webinar class, whatever. We even wrote a journal around it called the 90 days of intention journal. And it's basically like, let's set a goal of like a 90 day goal. And it could be, again, it's not the five year I want to retire, you know, and set up a week.

I'm going to buy a property in the next 90 days. Or I'm going to make it. I'm going to, it couldn't be like I'm going to, I don't know, I was going to say like make X amount of offers in the next, you know, whatever day. That's more of a lead measure. We'll get there. Anyway, so like I'm going to buy property. Not.

Wait, we'll get into that. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get into that. I tell you what I like about what you said is that it feels like a sprint and not a marathon. Yes. And if I can see the finish line, like we, we somehow default into these annual goals. And sometimes I like a 90 days. Matter of fact, we've got a team in Australia. They started running 90-day wigs with their clients to see if they could get more energy out of sprints.

And now the bad, the challenge is you got to reinvent it a little more quickly. You know, there's some logistics. But I really, I'm taken by these short, fast. And we're going to get into game theory. and how human beings respond to the gaming notion. Yep. And building a game for myself, all of a sudden, I have all this energy. I don't even know where it came from. Yep.

Yeah, I'm a huge fan of like that 90 day or there's a book called the 12-week year. It's similar. It's like, you shorten this up because I mean, like, otherwise, it's like, oh, well, 12 months from now, great, I'll, you know, I'm going to buy one property this year. It goes to that Peter Drucker or the Parkinson's Lothin, right? If you got a year to buy a rental property, you got a year to flip a house. Guess what? It's going to take you a year.

A couple of years ago, I said a gold. to buy 12 units in a year. I was like, I'm going to buy 12 units this year. On like December 21st, I added them up and I had 11. And I was like, well, shoot. So I mean, I did it. I went and I had nine days or whatever to buy another property. I bought one. But like I could have done it in 90 days. It's like we fill whatever time we have. Yeah. Go back to the initial problem. The initial problem was the urgency fixation. Yeah. Well, we in four disciplines, we don't overcome the emergency fixation by fixing it. We trick the brain. Yeah. We trick the brain into thinking. that the important stuff is urgent.

And so when you start with a compact goal, you're already a step ahead. Yeah, I love that. Okay, so let's talk about one more thing before we move on, just one too. And that is an analogy using the book about battles winning the war, right? You mentioned a second ago about like the goal should support the macro.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so David, a second ago, you asked about lead lag measures. And truth be told, from the biggest objectives in your life, all down to what you're going to do before noon are all made up of the same stuff. Like it's all the same. They're just targets at high to low levels. Well, we had to create some language to work with this.

So the wig we've been talking about, that target that we're going to apply the four disciplines to, we've got to, sometimes they're so big, like the space shot, that you have to break that target down into sub-target to get your hands on it without blowing the focus by spreading it by by multiplying targets. So for instance, within NASA, and this is where we got the construct from, in NASA, put a man on the moon and return him safely home by the end of the decade. If that was the war,

there was a NASA engineer who asked the question, what are the fewest battles necessary to win the war? We think this goes back to West Point. We think this is rooted in sort of military psychiatry. If somebody knows, let me know, because we've been trying to find the source of this. NASA came up with three battles, and this just opened my whole brain. They said navigation, propulsion, and life support. Now, there's other stuff that had to happen to get to the moon. But if you could win those three battles, right, the moon's not standing still. Navigation, right?

He's like shooting a bullet with a bullet. Propulsion, we've got to get to 25,000 miles an hour, or we're not going anywhere. And we do not know how to keep an astronaut alive in space for more than a day. So if we could do those three things, we could do the impotions. possible. But then all the functions within NASA were able to line up against those three objectives. So everybody had their day job plus one. So you might say if you're an independent contractor, if you're a businessman or an entrepreneur, you might say, hey, for where I'm going to go, I got a war. Right. And this thing's really going to come down to three battles. That's some

hard mental math, by the way. What are the fewest battles necessary to win the war? And this year, I'm going to bring this down until it's habit. Next year, we're going to move on to client acquisition. I'm not even going to worry about, you know, sunk costs of turnaround and various other things. I'm going to get this part of my operation right. Like, that's the battle I'm on today. I'm going to take that issue to intensive care until I got it locked and then I'm going to move to the next. And if you've ever worked with a really great operator, like in the corporate world,

we see these, these characters who show up, who have this unbelievable knack for turning around broken businesses. Sometimes they call them turnaround. They like do the four disciplines without the language, like what you were talking about, Brandon. They like get it bone deep, but that pattern of I'm going to maintain everything, I'm going to put energy here. So that's just that war battle thing is just a way to break a big goal down to the one thing we're going to go at for now. Perfect. Perfect. All right. So a couple of quick examples of real estate related. So in my, in my own personal life. So I have, I have a kind of a vision or a goal, you know, long term of I want to have a thousand units in the next three to four years. We'll call it three years. Right on.

A thousand years, right? But that's a pretty big thing. So I shrunk that down and said, hey, I have 100 units right now. By the end of 2019, which is nine months from when we're recording this roughly, I want to have 200 units. So I'm going to go from 100 units to 200 units by 2019. Now, obviously, I'm not going to go. I mean, like people will be like, well, yeah, but you could buy a bunch of bad units. Well, I know that. I'm going to buy 100, you know, cash flowing at my metrics unit. But anyway, you can have an asteris. You can have a contingency that says, you know, I'm going to have 200 qualifying units and qualifying means. Yeah, yeah. Right. So, but yeah, the idea. So that's my personal thing. Now, I took that, that, that war for the year is going

to have, I'm going to double my units, right? Then I broke that down when I went the 90 days. So I said, hey, in the next 90 days, my goal is actually in the 90 days, it's to double my cash flow. Well, Between January 1st and the end of March, I was going to double my cash flow. And I was going to do so by, so I was, again, from like from X amount to cash flow to Y amount. And that sounds ridiculous, but I had a lot of holes in my buckets, basically. I had a lot of cash flow leaking out all over because we know why I just lost a lot. So anyway.

So this was something you could actually act on with about 80% influence over 90 day period of time. You have to bring that down. Yeah. And a lot of times a wig is a project. And that's almost like that little sub-battle was a project. You could put that to bed in 90 days. And until you do that, you're going to have a whole bunch of problems down the road or unless you do that.

Yeah. And so then I brought my team. And right now my team essentially is made up of like myself, my wife, who manages the kind of rental property side of things. And then Ryan Murdoch, who has been on the podcast before, he's a buddy of mine, lives out here in Hawaii near me. And Ryan, I basically put him in charge of vacancy. So in other words,

So his battle to fight the war was, hey, we've got, we're 85% vacancy right now. So figure 85% of our units were filled. 15% were just empty, right? I knew that if we could just fix that problem. And so I gave that to Ryan. I said, Ryan, you're like, you know, we kind of worked it together. But his goal was from 85% occupancy to 95% occupancy within, within, what were the three months, right? Guess what?

He nailed it. Last week, actually, we just ended our first 90 days sprint. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. 95% just that degree of focus and there's no new information it's like when you started the podcast with brandon when you said if it was just information yeah because people always look at this and go I already knew that yeah we know you knew it it's your ability to apply energy and and really yeah so keep going you got this this everything said sounds right now pitch perfect to me and what I'm

hearing when you say this is you're taking a big idea and it's like you're translating it into a new language. Yeah. I got a son who's doing service work in a slum in Argentina right now, right? Wow. And for the first year, this kid was so frustrated with the language. And the minute the language started to come on, man, they love him down there. He's just doing all kinds of amazing stuff. But the language was brutal. And I love what you just said, because I can hear, you're moving from one language. It's subtle. But it's, it's, you're moving to the, the language of targets. If your strategy, if your plan feels conceptual, you're going to really struggle. But when you got it down to that focus and you got it down to that target, yeah, now,

now all of a sudden, for whatever reason, things start to happen. It starts to move. That makes sense. Yeah. So that's what we did. So we moved from the 85% up to 95%. That was a because I have 100 units. That's like 10 years ago. You're getting pretty close to the full one. We talked about that. That last, those last few miles is killer. Yeah, it is. So we did it. But if you think about that, that's 10 units that we now, that filled at average of $600 a month, you know, of more income coming in. That's like six grand every month and extra income now we're making. Like, that was a huge chunk of my goal to double. It's a fix the holes in my bucket and double money. So anyway, so we, I don't know if I quit. I actually got to review my

numbers still. We're either just there at the double cash flow number or just below. But either way. I'm really glad you're saying this, Brandon, because people don't realize how available these these goals are. Yeah. It is not a question and it's it's not a question of willpower or just effort. It really is. Willpower has got about a three week half life on it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it just, it just disappeared. We don't even know where the heck it went. Yep. Right. But if you can initiate a process that applies deliberate focus and they can come out of very specific targets. That's the other thing I like about your example. It was a very specific target, very, but you said if we really could do that one thing. Yeah.

Does it? So I like tight, I like specific, and I like ripple effects. You gave me both. Perfect. Perfect. All right. But I don't want to told you if I didn't like it. Okay, good.

Well, let's talk about how we did that because, I mean, we completely worked within the 40X framework to get here. So that's number one was, let's just summarize up. It's the set of wild important goal. So it could be, hey, from no rental units to one rental unit in the next X amount, you know, by this day, right? Or it could be, hey, I'm going to go from, I mean, I'll tell you my wage is so everyone knows it. My wig for the next 90 day, my kind of sprint. is to go from basically right now I have zero mobile home parks. I'm trying to buy a mobile home park because I have one and I love it.

I'm going to go from right now I have zero under contract to having one under contract. It's not a big shift, but I just want to have in the next 90 days a property under contract, a large mobile home park. I love that. But now I've got my new wig. So again, everyone's got their own their wig, but that's what we're talking about when we say are the wildly important, right? Let me add one more spin on that.

Please. These goals, and by the way, this is the part of the book everybody likes to skip. Everybody likes to say, oh, well, I know what my goal is. Let me get to how I do it. And the guy I learned this from, who's been dead 10 years, Jim Stewart, he was a Conoco oil operator. He was a student of Deming and Duran, like the total quality, the Japanese stuff. This is where he came out of.

Jim would stay on the goal part so much longer than I wanted to. He'd drive me back crazy. But when the target's really good, it's like go slow to go fast. So here's the last caveat I'd put on that, Brandon. and sometimes the wigs take a couple different flavors. Sometimes they're performance-based and sometimes they're transformational. What do you mean by that?

Perform and transform. In other words, going into a new market is a little bit transformational for you. I'm going to extend beyond our existing portfolio and this is going to change our business. Like, I got to go somewhere new. We're working with a pharmaceutical company that said, yeah, we can hit our sales goal and it's our first foot in the grave.

We have got to pivot right now. Like, they had to go transformation. Performance is like the first example you gave where occupancy is always going to be a deal. We know there's a big bang return if we can hit it. So don't think it has to be one or the other. You've got a lot of a flexibility for your operation of where you want to put the muscle. Perfect. Perfect.

All right. Moving on. Number two, let's go discipline number two. Act on the lead measures. And again, I'll throw some examples of how we are able to pull off later. But first, can you explain what you mean by that? Yeah. Okay, so David, now back to kind of what you asked earlier because it's a little confusing

because there is a breakdown of the lags. And by the way, for everybody, don't let the terminology throw you. Lacking metrics are just a results measure. It's any outcome. It's a result. Okay. And we call them lags because. by the time the results happened, the results over. It's in the rearview mirror. It's lagging metric.

Okay. Lead measures are the thing we can measure that we can do. So I got to be able to act on a lead measure. So the easiest way to get this is to actually use a weight loss analogy. I can explain it contextually for four days. And until I use weight loss, nobody knows what I'm talking about. So here it is. You gave me the lag brand in a minute ago. I'm going to go from two, 100 pounds to 180 pounds by this point in time. That's my lag measure. I got it targeted. That's discipline one. Discipline two, and everybody knows where I'm going right now. Discipline two are the things I can do, and that's, of course, diet and exercise. Right. But they have to be in measurement form. Right. I'm going to run X number of miles per week.

I'm going to, I'm going to maintain calories below a certain level. It has to be a measurable thing. those are the leads the lag is the output now here's what's behind that example lead measures have two characteristics like if you don't remember anything else in the podcast lock your brain on this one idea they're predictive and they're influenceable this seems to be the golden rule of execution this is the this is the this is first principle stuff right here and it's the it's the definition of leverage. So let me just break this down. Improving calorie burn and reducing calorie input are both predictive metrics, right? If calorie burn goes up and calorie input goes down, weight goes down. Everybody gets the predictive part. The influenceable part, and David, this gets back to

your question, this is what separates a lead from a lag. A lead measure I can act directly on. something I can do. It's directly influenceable. So think about the way a lever. If your rock, if a wildly important goal was a rock that was too heavy to move, right? The lead measures like a lever.

And if you think about what are the characteristics of a lever? Well, the rock doesn't move. But if I get out there on that lever, that thing moves. It's influenceable. And when the lever moves, it's predictive. The rock moves. Somebody literally said, we're in a seminar.

somebody said to us, oh, you're just describing the principles of leverage. And we were like, oh, my gosh, we can write a book now. Because, like, we knew what, we knew focus, we knew engagement, we knew accountability. We didn't know what the heck the lead measure was, and it is the principle of leverage. Here's the other thing. This has a gigantic psychological impact on whether you stay in the game or not. Having something that is both predictive and influenceable, the brain interprets as a winnable game. And people do not hang around in a game where they don't feel.

feel it's winnable. Human beings cannot stand futility. And I'm guessing there are people that had the high expectations and went into this, you know, ran into the real estate market with all kinds of expectations and they spun their wheels. And what got them was the futility. They couldn't, they did all this activity. They were spawning to all this stuff. And the dots weren't connecting. Like they didn't have any leverage. And either that's because either the lever wasn't the right lever. They weren't pulling a lever at all, or they have too big of a rock identified. And we can talk about those things. But these are the, Brandon, these are sort of the mental tools you use for breaking this stuff down. Sorry, that was too long of an explanation.

That was good. So David, I want to actually throw this at you, David. So this is something that you actually taught me years ago based on what I think you learned from Gary Keller. And this idea of like, let's say you want to be a real estate agent. So David here is a real estate agent and a really good one. David taught me like, it's not about like, I want to be a top real estate agent. I'm going to put of a goal on my wall. It's like, what do top real estate agents actually do? It's number of phone calls. So, David, can I just throw this at you? Like, how do lead measures of this concept apply to being like a real estate agent or an investor? That's a really good question because there's, there's similarities between those two worlds and that's why I like doing them. What it comes down to

is if you want to sell a lot of houses or if you want to get a lot of off market deals, you do the same thing. You talk about what you want to as many people as you can. You're like Johnny Appleseed out there, throw in your seed, wanting everybody to do. here, I buy real estate because you want them in their minds to associate you with real estate. So when they hear about a deal, they hear about someone who's moving, they hear about someone who said they want to buy a house, they need to immediately think David Green if I'm going to end up getting that business. So it doesn't matter if I say I want to be the top selling agent in the Bay Area. What matters is that I say, I need to talk to at least X amount of people every day about

real estate. And in my talks with them, my leverage that makes that talk productive is how well they like me when they walk away? Do they walk away like, man, that guy was cool. I want to help him out. I care about his goals as much as he cares about his goals. And then we, the tool that we used to use that is just a database and a CRM. So I add people to my database and I talk to people in my database. It's really those two things that make you a real estate agent. You add people, you talk to people. And as you continue to do that, your phone just starts to ring. And like those are, I guess your lag measures, right? Like you start to see the goals that are coming in, right? That's it. The problem is when new agents join and it's very hard to be a real estate agent,

I have people come to me all the time and say, what are you doing to sell so many houses? And I'll say, you have to talk to people all the time and you have to have something interesting to talk about. You have to have something helpful. You have to add value. You have to care. And immediately they're like, oh, that's just going to be too hard.

I don't want to do that. I'll just check my email every day and see if anything came in or I'll work on my website, right? And then I think what you're saying, Chris happens is the futility starts to, like if they do it for a couple months and nothing comes in, and they're like, well, screw it, what's the point? So a minute ago, I said that in the corporate world, we have these stone cold operators,

and they do the principles, even though they don't have words for them. David just gave, that's who David is. So let me just, can I just pause on David's leads for just a second? Let me just camp here for a second. Because, and by the way, I love the term subconscious competency. It's when you're crazy good at something and you don't even know you're good at it. And so you just gave me a whole bunch of stuff inside the world of lead measures that you may or may not even realize that you just said.

So the talking to people, he didn't just have a quantitative component to it. He had a qualitative component to it. See, that's a good lever right there. That he knows if he just talks to people that doesn't move the rock. But he knows if he talks to them and they leave thinking,

I like that guy. And it's a little unfair, David, because you have a cool factor. So, you know, a little bit of cheating. That's all I go with it, right? If you can work that into your lever. Working in there, right? He's got a cool factor, right?

But seriously, if he knows, like, he knows when he's hit that trigger. So he's very deliberate. Like, he's talking to people, but he wants, he doesn't, he's not just a robot. Like, he wants him to have a good experience. And the other thing you said was added value. So they got to like you and they got to add value. This is what makes, right? In football, a first down is not somewhere between 8 and 12 yards.

It's 10 freaking yards. Yeah. Nine yards and 11 inches, you're punting. right and people that are good at this they know when they got a first down and football teams football teams don't work on getting in the end zone 90% of the time they're working on the next first down yeah yeah right you you've played football and you were trying to get in the end zone on every play it would become futile very quickly david was able to change his brain so the game wasn't touchdowns the game was first downs and now that's a rock he can get leverage behind now that was

is one lead. His other lead was database. So he just like diet and exercise, he's working one lever on these human connections. But his other lever is he wants to see, see, this is the other thing he's done, he's translated it to data. He's got a number in his head of how many people he wants to talk to and he has a number in his mind of how many people he's going to add to his data. Am I talking out a turn or is that? No, that's a hundred percent right. And that's what, that's what you have to do and the agents who don't do that, it doesn't matter how fancy your website is or how nice your LinkedIn profile is or how many people you just hand a business card to and just cross your fingers and think maybe they're going to get bored one day and call you and say, can you be

my real estate agent? It's about the impact that you make on people. And you have to put yourself out there. You have to be vulnerable. You have to have a heart that cares. You have to study your craft so you know what you're talking about. Right. Lever's not. It drives a whole bunch of other behavior. Yes. Yes. That's exactly right. When the leads start to go down, the lead isn't the end but the lead focuses a bunch of other stuff that you do. You're like, look, I haven't said anything interesting to anybody in a month. Like, I got to go, I got to go figure out what's going on in the market. I got to my pitch is getting stale, man.

Whatever. So taking this to a real estate investor, like a lot of people listening to the show, right? They're saying, like, people are going to be all the time. I can't find any deals right now. I hear that all the time. I can't find any deals. The first thing I always ask them, how many offers did you make this week? And the answer is always the same.

None. Well, like, how do you expect to get your lag measure of buying a price? property or whatever, if you don't do a lead measure making an offer, or how many deals did you analyze this week? That's a lead measure. Hey, I sat down and analyzed X amount of deals, five deals. Well, good. Like, now you're moving towards something. How many meetups did you go to this week? How many people did you take out the lunch this week? Those are all lead measures that if we do them, they should get us the results down the road, right? Can we pivot and talk about why that doesn't happen? Please. Because there's people listening to this going, are you freaking kidding me,

diet and exercise to lose weight? Like, why the heck am I? listening to this show. Oh, and David, you're a lot better. So you're saying I should have people and talk to people. You guys are freaking genius. Like, there's people out there right now that think we're all just smoking pot. And it's crazy. But what you got to do is you got to understand the psychology behind Brandon what you just talked about. You know, there was this famous cartoon in World War II. Oh, Pogo, I think it was. We have seen the enemy and it is us. If you don't understand that you're the problem, you're not going anywhere. And And to recognize, to recognize that there are these inherent things that make this harder than it is.

Let me tell you that I've seen in sales. Part of the problem with this, Brandon, and I'm going to go down to your example now. Yeah. There were some deals that landed in these people's lap. There were some bluebirds. And those felt good. And they closed them. And now the bluebirds aren't there anymore.

And now, right now there's this other muscle that the people, that have been in the business and been successful and really grown. And they're not used to that other muscle. Because I only had to work this hard to get a bluebird, but I have to work this hard to get my next deal. And the brain, here's the other thing. So I'm going to talk about some brain problems with acting against the urgent. While I'm out doing anything that drives my goal, I am now not doing something in the whirlwind that needs to be done right now. Like you say that. Like, why haven't you made those offers? That's a, Brandon, that's a non-urgent activity.

So it's not just that I have to act on something that's non-urgent. It means I have to stop doing, I got three things that want my attention right now. And the minute I pull away from those, I start to itch. And here's one. The most strategic work you do will feel like you're wasting time. That's good. The most strategic work you do in the moment, your brain, this is why I say you've got to initiate tendency override. Now, David, it's not happening for him because he knows, chiching, ching.

Like, he sees through the matrix. Like, he knows, doesn't look like I'm making money. I'm making money right now. You're like, Brian Reed. Right now, I'm making money, right? So that idea that this really, and this is why we like to tell people, you're going to hate discipline one because you don't get to chase every rabbit. Yep.

Double down on one rabbit, right? One target. Discipline two, you're going to hate that because everybody knows, everybody can stand on the scale. So think about, let's go and stay. I'm going to give you a couple of it's all right. You stop me. I'm going to give you a couple of reasons. So the first one is the urgency thing. The second one, people fixate on lag data because the lag is what I want. Yep. I want the business. I want the money. I want the weight loss. I don't even like diet and exercise. Yep. I don't even like talking to new people. I don't even, right? I don't even like the mechanics of hearing that person in the

database. Right. So that's the first thing. Second thing, lag data is easy to track. I got all you have to do. stand on a scale. Yep. And I get like data. Lead data, right? If you're wearing an Apple watch, if you're wearing a Fitbit, right? That's a billion dollar industry helping you track lead data. Yep.

How many steps have I taken today? Those two things. And then I got the, I got the, this is the coup de grace. Okay. Just, I've only been on this one for a little while, but I think this is big. And I always blank on the word for a second, but it's going to come to me. Come on. Confirmation bias.

Okay. There you go. Nicely done. It would have taken me a minute to figure out that's where you're going. Yeah. Confirmation bias is a very powerful power. Yes, it is. It's why political, you know, dogma is the way.

Everything I see confirms that the liberals are crazy. And everything the liberals see confirms that the consent. But we all just see this. Well, watch how confirmation bias shows up. We'll do weight loss. I stand on the scale. Look at the, we call lag measures. Oh, crap measures, by the way.

Yep, I love that. Because they're the old cool or oh, crap, right? We stand on the scale. And here's what goes through the person's mind. I think maybe this needs a new battery. I don't think this is right. Because why? Confirmation bias is kicking.

Because look, I didn't eat dessert one time last week. And I know I worked out. You know, my body doesn't respond, you know, like my metabolism is different. It doesn't. The calorie diet, it doesn't quite work with my body. I have a different metabolism than everybody else. But let me tell you what's really happening. We remember what we want to remember.

And we don't even know this is happening. We're not doing this consciously. So we think, this is why everybody that you know that's lost more than 40 pounds. And everybody knows somebody that's lost 40 pounds. This is, I would be email Brandon and David if you know somebody that's lost more than 40 pounds that wasn't counting. You actually know what? You want to say, true story.

I just lost 40 pounds. I lost 40 pounds, right? And you know how I did it? You were counting. I track every single meal that I eat. I track every single workout. It's a pain in the butt. It is.

It is a pain, right? But why was that necessary? Yeah, I had to. Otherwise, like, otherwise, I don't, I don't pay attention to it from a daily basis. I just kind of ignore it. And I don't know what's actually, I just don't do anything. Like, when I don't track my, my stuff, I just don't do it. Yeah.

And you might, right, you might know a ton about weight loss and exercises. Like you said at the beginning, it's not the knowing. It's the doing. And for whatever reason, if we don't track, we lie to ourselves. I thought of this thing. I told my body tutor. I don't, I'm not like a paid spokesman or anything for them. I'd love them, right?

but basically every single day. And this actually lines up perfectly with 40X as well because it leads it to the next one. Every day I record my food, what I ate, what I worked out, and I tracked that stuff. Then I have basically a scorecard. The entire app is basically a scorecard, which we'll get to. And then I have an accountability guy, like a personal trainer who looks over my meals and holds me accountable to my goals every week. And so it's like basically. I love it.

You got the whole package. You got the whole 4DX in an app. Yeah. And to go to the bias thing. You mentioned, it's funny. I got a scale the other day. After a couple days, I'm just doing really bad. I had friends here.

I was eating out. I looked at my weight. I was up like five pounds in like, oh, in like a week, right? And I was like unfair. It's unfair. You know what I said to myself? I go, well, I did have a couple burgers and they have a lot of salt. So I think the salt's just retaining water right now. So it's probably just water, right? That exact bias. The level of self-deception that goes on is unbelievable. Yeah, it wasn't that I just screwed up and I went off my system. It was water. It was. Yeah. And so again, just like we said, tendency override, you're not going, what we're asking, the level of focus, we're talking about in Discipline 1, you're not going to like it. It won't feel good.

Yep. Putting energy against the lead measure in the moment will not feel good. You're going to feel like you're wasting time. You can't believe you're tracking it. But the ugly mirror. I got a true story on this. Actually, this is a perfect example. So my lead measure right now to go to so my leg measure now for this next quarter of my life for the next 90 days sprint I'm doing is to go, it's basically get a mobile home park under contract. That's what I want to get. Right. Right. Right. So my leads on that is. going to be analyzing deals. I say I want to analyze in-depth two mobile home parks every single week because I know that if I analyze two a week, like really in-depth, I'm going to find something,

right? If I'm consistent with that and persistent with that, I'm going to get it. So last week, I set this goal. I'm going to analyze two parks in-depth this week. Okay, so here's Saturday comes up, Saturday morning comes up. My friends are visiting. We're going surfing. We're going to the beach to go surf. And it's like 9-30 and they're like, all right, we're ready to go. And I go, shoot, I did not analyze my second deal this week. Love this. So I went outside and I analyzed, I spent an hour, about an hour digging into this deal that was sent to me, running the numbers, really going to, my wife came out and she's like,

Brandon, everyone's ready to go. And I was like, I know, but I have to do this. And I felt so, not only did I feel bad, but I just felt like I was wasting time because I knew this deal wasn't going to work out. I knew that this wasn't the deal that I was going to end up buying. So everything told me, I'm wasting time. I should just go out and. go ahead, do the fun that I wanted to. But I'm like, the point is not, the point was not to get

that deal. The point was to be true to what I committed to. Yes. Yes. I'm going to have to have to have a recording of this show, guys. Listen, what you just articulated, we may do like a video vignette. We'll send you a check or unless we forget or, right, don't do well. But seriously, what you just described was the dilemma of discipline too. You know, Let me go back to my mentor, Stephen Covey. He was on, it was a big deal to us. He was on Oprah once. We were like, Oprah!

Yeah. So he's on Oprah, he's doing all this. And you know how they gave the mic to the audience members? And they gave the mic to this kid. I don't know if somebody put him up to it, but you got this little kid and he says, it's probably a, I don't know, he says, what could a young person do to be more effective? And Covey had the most profound, I've never forgot it.

He said, Just this one thing. It's basically, forget everything else I said, dude, just do one thing. Make and keep a promise to yourself. Oh, I love that. And that's what he told this. This little 11-year-old kid, like, I want to know where that kid is right now. Like, I want to find that kid because I just, like, that went right through me.

Like, a person who can, what do they say? Like, a person who can lead himself is greater than a person that can lead a city. And you're not going to like it. But the fact that you stayed on that. And here's the other thing. Strategy is no good without execution. Because when you don't get the result, you don't know if it's strategy or execution. So anyway, sorry, I'm going to rant. But yeah, that was a great example. And I think people get what that feels like. You're going to play the bet. Oh, and by the way, sometimes the bet doesn't work. Yeah. And these are good.

We used to freak out about this. This is called scientific method. Like, scientific method is just a fancy name for guessing. It's just really, it's just really well documented guessing. That's scientific method. That's like all breakthroughs are the byproduct of this trial and error machine. And the discipline one, discipline two things. So right now, you know, David, you got a lead lag scenario that's working. Brandon, you got a lead lag scenario that's working. And folks, hear this.

It's not just the behavior. They're measuring both sides. They're measuring the input and the output. Focusing on one or the other, it unravels for some reason. They've got to be tethered, right? but that, you know, that idea that, you know, we're going to put deliberate effort against something that's going to move the outcome, you know, it creates attention. That's perfect.

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Head to costsegregationguise.com slash BP to get a free free. proposal and see your potential tax savings. One more thing before we move on number three. Actually, I'm going to do something kind of fun here. So our senior producer of our podcast, name is Kevin. Many of you have heard Kevin before on the podcast. I think we brought him on once before. Hey, Kevin, are you there?

I'm going to have money. Yes, sir. Hi, Kevin, you and I run this 40X methodology through bigger pockets. They're actually the podcast itself is on 4DX as well. So I'm wondering, like, can you walk through. You don't have to tell the exact like necessarily the wig that we have. I mean, you can't just podcast growth, right? but like your lead measure, what are our lead measures for this podcast growing?

Yeah, our lead measures are producing a certain amount of social media clips to put them out there and raise awareness about the show. They are how many titles we brainstorm and come up with so we can come up with language that people will click on. And a lot of times it's like the eighth title that we come up. I'm an error machine right there. Beautiful. Yeah.

So that's a good one. Sometimes it's how many people that we reach out to to try to get Brandon or David on interviews on big platforms. So like on big podcasts. So maybe their audience discovers us. That's probably three off top of it. Yeah, that's perfect. And that I brought them in to show you like that.

We do this in almost, I mean, I do this in every area of my life, but specifically like, and Kevin like has been doing an awesome job and our podcast is growing like, you know, significantly because again, like these lead measures are,

I mean, hopefully producing the results. So I actually wanted to lead into the next little question here before we go. I know I'm spending forever on this one, I really think that this is like probably the most. Yeah, it's the heart of the heart of the least. Yeah, yeah, it really is, right, getting these lead measures.

So what if, how do you know that the lead measure is working? Yeah, thank you, Kevin. So like Kevin, for example, you know, he's doing the titles, right? We're testing different titles for the podcast. And it's, I mean, we've been seeing dramatic increases because the titles are getting better. How do you know and what do you do if you get a title? I mean, a lead measure is just not working. Yeah, that's a great.

It's a classic question. So just breaking it down for everybody. So you've set up, you've set up, you've set up your. bet. That's what these feel like. I'm betting that if I do these leads, I'm going to get this lag. You got it framed. Okay. Now, let's say the lead starts to move, but the lag doesn't move. Yep. So you're pulling the lever, but the rock's not moving. Yep. Right? Maybe we're bending the pole, right? There's actually four things that we look for. The first thing is that you've actually collected the data wrong. So you thought you were moving the lead, but you're really not actually

doing anything more than you were doing before. Maybe you got lazy on the definitions, right? You're counting stuff that really shouldn't be counted. You know, and you've got sort of an artificial factor. So you really haven't tested whether the true behavior gets the result. It's a counterfeit. That's the first place you look. The second place you look is what we call lethal dosals. So conceptually, let's say that exercise and diet reduce weight, but you calibrate your game where you're going to burn an extra 50 calories a week and you're going to cut calorie input by 20 calories a day. You're not losing any weight at all. You did not. So we don't get to cheat the laws of physics. In leverage, you have to move a lever a long way to move a rock a little way.

And that's some bad, I mean, if you've ever been on a treadmill where it counts calories, it's the biggest rip off in the world. It's had the hardest 45 minutes. minutes of your life and you burned off Snickers bar. Like, who comes up with these rules? Right? And like David, with the people and the, like, if we knew how many people, people say, I would do anything to have your success. Yeah, I don't know. You'd talk to as many people as David's talked to. I'm not sure you'd really do anything. So I'm just, I'm not softening it for you. You've got to move that lever. So, so the second one, sorry, tangent. Please. First one is, we don't really have the behavior. So we haven't really tested it.

Second one is lethal dosage. We calibrated it wrong. We think we're getting our leads, but we're not. We're just playing with the lever. Third one is time and space, right? Results in behavior are not closely connected in time and space sometimes, right? So maybe David's got to talk to people for three months before it starts coming back, right? You got to give those people enough of an opportunity before they know someone that needs to sell or they need to sell.

There's a natural delay in the cycle, and you've got to have the faith to play the bet out. So all three of those things can happen to good lead measures, and yet we're not moving the lag. And the fourth one, you've always believed something drove something else, and it really doesn't. Like, if you found out that, you know what, this social media stuff that we're doing this one part, I mean, I know social media work, but like this one part, it hasn't gotten us a thing. Yep. Like that's so great to know because these myths will live on in organizations for decades, these sacred cows. Kill the sacred cow if it's not producing. Move on. That's kind of a good thing. We thought it was a bad thing. So those four things. That's good. So one of the things that's great

about real estate is that like in, like when you're in a business, let's see you're going to launch a brand new business that's nothing to do with real estate. There's not a lot of precedent before you necessarily to know what works in a dozen. But with real estate there is. Like we know. We know. You know the numbers. We know. We know, like David and I sit here and talk to investors every week. We've done 300 and some episodes now, right? We know that certain things are going to give you the results you want.

If you make offers consistently, if you're analyzing deals consistently, if you're sending out mass amounts of direct mail marketing, if you, I mean, I'm not saying everything's guaranteed to work, but these things do work because we see them working over and over. It's the same. I mean, like, I mean, you could take every show we've ever done. There's probably like 20 ideas. Like, they just keep working, right? Right? So you know a lot, you have a lot of choices where you have confirmed cause and effect

relationships. But maybe there's just as many people out there going, oh, that doesn't work in my market. Yeah, yeah, there are. But it's confirmation. Oh, I tried that. Yeah, I tried that. That doesn't work for me. Yeah.

Yeah, I get that all the time. I tried analyzing deals. It didn't work for me. I'm like, you analyze like three properties. I know. Like, analyze three a day. It's part of that confirmation bias where they're looking for something to justify that it's hopeless.

They say they want to achieve a goal, but they don't. What they really want is to let themselves off the hook to not have to achieve that goal, right? Like Brandon's just lost a ton of weight. And he keeps saying to me, not that I'm telling the entire world, I need to lose weight, but it definitely wouldn't hurt me, right? David, you need to get on my fitness pal and you need to do this thing. And I believe 100% in my heart, if I called a dude and I was like, I ate a gummy bear today, and he says, well, was that a good healthy eating choice, David?

It would start to irritate me enough that I wouldn't eat that gummy bear so I don't have to talk to this dope telling me I shouldn't do it, right? And the reason I'm not... This is the goal factor I was talking about. This is why you want to be his friend. Well, the reason I'm not doing it is just because I don't want that goal bad enough. It's that simple. I know it would work, but I know I'm not willing to pay the price. So I'm not justifying that. That's exactly what I'm getting at. That's it. I'm not more willpower than other people. I'm just more honest with myself where I recognize, yeah, it would work. I don't want to do it. I don't want it that bad. When I want it bad enough,

I will totally do that, right? And if more people, I feel like took that approach, they would get frustrated a lot less and they'd waste a lot of time. If they just said, yeah, I want to be wealthy, but I don't want to have to change very much about myself to get there. Or I don't want to have to have the faith it takes to do the same thing over and over and wait for it to come down.

Because the reality is, like you just said, Chris, I could talk to someone. I could make a great first impression, but it may be nine months before they find someone who wants to sell their house. So that means I got to keep talking to them. And if I talk to them five times and in that time, nobody came along, but I don't do it the sixth time, all five were for nothing.

They'll forget about me and it will go to somebody else, right? So you got to commit. I mean, like, that's where the power is, is in the consistency and the commitment of doing the same thing. Brandon struggled with this method he came up with for a while before it became a habit to where he was eating healthy all the time, right? He would start, he would fail. He would fail.

But every time he got a little bit stronger, the muscle got a little bit better. It is a muscle. Yes, that's exactly right. And you have to take that approach when you start these things. It's like you can't expect to be in great shape the first time you go to the gym. In fact, it's not going to change anything. You're just going to be sore and miserable and hate it. But if you stop, you did that for nothing.

If you continue going, that's where you start to get those results. I got to jump on this. What David is saying, this is another reason to go small. Even if the outcome doesn't wow you, if you develop the capacity to act on non-urgent, strategic bets, you have just moved away from the pack. because nine out of ten people can't do it. The one in ten that can is kind of a genetic fluke. And you just separated yourself,

even if the result, it's worth it just to build the discipline. And I got one other piece on this. So back to Dr. Covey, he's like in my brain. His macro principle was this idea. If you think the problem is out there, that very thought is the problem. Ooh, yeah. Right?

If you're blaming it on your demographic, if you're blaming it on anything. You just gave it away. That's really not. The fact that you thought that, that's the problem. I teach a, they got me teaching a Sunday school class, and this is 17 and 18-year-olds. Like, usually don't, won't go to church, right?

But I got 20 of them, and they're coming. And I don't want to blow this, right? But this is one of the ideas that I worked with them on. I said, look, if there's some part of your life that you're, it's really hurting you right now. If you cannot play the victim, even if it feels really unjust, even if it feels really unfair, if you can just try and identify a principle that maybe you're out of whack with, like that will change your whole life.

Like, you know, people don't listen to me. Well, what's the principle of influence? You got to first be influenced in order to have influence. So if David talks to people and they don't respond to him, maybe he's not. maybe it's because he's not interested in them. And if he was interested in them, they would be interested in him. So there was the problem. He wasn't unfair.

They weren't being mean. He was violating a principle. He didn't realize it. But that thought of saying when something goes wrong, and it's so prevalent, sorry, I'm going to get on my soapbox. Everybody's looking to out victimize everybody else right now. It's like we have the victim freaking Olympics going on right now on a grand crazy media-fueled scale. And it's so harmful.

Can we just say? you know, and I'm not saying aren't people that have really bad things happen to them. I don't want to go there. But for my own life, when it starts to stink, I can go victim as fast as anybody. If I can just stop and say, all right, Chris, you know, you're screwing up. Can you find it? Well, I've never heard Brandon say it's not my fault. It's because they put additives in fast food that makes me want to keep going back.

It's not my fault. It's not my fault. I'm just so busy. I don't have time to go get healthy food. It's everybody else's fault because I'm so. busy, right? Like, those people, they stay fat and they don't want to get skinny. They want someone to blame so that they can stay the way they are, right? Like, that's why I was saying confirmation bias is so powerful. So powerful. Confirmation bias will feed that all day long because it's,

it doesn't create cognitive dissonance. Fognitive dissonance is when I know I'm screwing up. I don't like that feeling. And you got to, if you want to be an achiever, you got to like eat that for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Like, you have a cognitive dis. Like, I know something. Like, I know something. and I'm not doing it and I'm not going to justify. That's what you get every time you call your My Fitness Pall buddy and he says, why did you eat that gummy bear? And I'm not supposed to. It's not part of my goal.

I don't like how this feels. And eventually your brain will move you away from it because it doesn't like that feeling and you'll go towards success. And I think what we're saying is that same principle applies to any goal that you have, whether it's buying real estate or flipping houses or being more successful at your job or losing weight. Well, and don't lose this point. Go small.

We got on this rant. because the benefit of just learning the discipline, even if it doesn't get you much the first round is a game changer. Sorry, Brandon. No, that's good. And I will say this. Like, David, you just said and I'll emphasize here. This isn't just about, I hope people will understand this isn't just about business, isn't just about real estate investing. Like, I mean, this is kind of all areas of life, right? Like, these four disciplines apply to everything. In fact, like, like honest, like, I had a, I have a goal. I want to be a better husband and father. But that's kind of a lame. That's a concept, right? That's not really a goal. Right? Right. So I looked at,

I'm like, what does that look like? So I actually set a lead, essentially a lead measure. But I mean, and I, you could call it lead or, you know, like a small. There's something you're going to act on. Yeah, basically. I went from, I said if I go from three, I was averaging according to screen time on my phone, I was there, or the app moment, I was averaging four to five hours a day on my phone. I won't look at that.

I got to go there. Yeah, it's scary, right? So I said painful. I have not opened that door yet. That's scary. Yeah. It's scary, right? So I said, if I want to be a better husband and father, what, how

can I track that? And I said, you know what? If I'm spending less time on my phone, that's more time present with my family when I'm in person with them. I'm not just on my phone, right? So I said to go, drop from, so from four hours a day to one hour a day of screen time in my first 90 days. And I did it. Like, I dropped. In fact, I even bought, like, took drastic action, bought an Apple watch, I mean, an Apple watch so I could text and call my phone if I had to, and I leave my phone at home. So like that, this applies to everything. I mean, like I love, you know what I love. And we got the term, you know, applying a disproportionate amount of effort. Yeah.

Brandon gets the concept of overkill. Shock and awe. Like he gets the if, he gets the if then. Like, if he could actually do it, it would have a big, like, it's like this to this. Like, if he could do that thing, sorry, listening audience, right? Small thing with big impact. He's not afraid to bring it by a watch. I mean, if there's a target and it's worthy, get. the target. Whatever it takes, if it's really worth it, get the target. And I love that you're not afraid to bring a little overkill into this scenario. I'm a huge believer in like, in like, I'm taking massive action. I'm not always have been, right? I mean, I literally moved to, not, but what's where you like this material. I know. Yeah, that's exactly. Yeah, you can tell why I love this stuff. But there's one thing Brandon does well, this is exactly what it is. This is his go-to move. Yeah. No, I moved. I wanted to get in shape, right? So, and I wanted to spend more time on my family. I moved to Hawaii for those two reasons.

I say it's because of the weather, but I moved to Hawaii because I knew it would force me to get in shape and spend more time with my family. And because he has a bias for action, he had the ability to move to Hawaii. The rest of us idiots would love to move to Hawaii. It's pretty fun here. Okay, so this actually leads to the third discipline I want to go into

because one other area that I'm doing the four disciplines in is in potty training and also in teeth brushing. Not for myself. Good, because it's about time you got potty trained, Brandon. This has been something that you've thought about. created a monster. How do I apologize to his kids? I was toilet trained at gunpoint.

Oh, good. I tell you, no amount of therapy is going to make that okay. So my daughter literally has a big yellow scorecard in her room that every day, we'll go brushing teeth. Every time she brushes her teeth, she gets to put a sticker on her scoreboard on her child. And she's two. But like, this solved our problem of how to get her to brush her teeth. And now we're applying it now to potty training. but it solved our problem.

The scorecard was the biggest different. I mean, like, it was overnight. We added a scorecard, she stopped crying and started brushing her teeth. As soon as she was tracking it on a very simple way. So let's talk about that next. I can't. Discipline three is keep a compelling scoreboard. And folks, I've been doing this for,

I've been teaching this material and modifying it for 17 years and I can't beat the example you just got. I'm sitting on a thousand examples. I don't have anything better than that. Matter of fact, that's my new go-to. story right there. Here's the principle. The principle is people play differently

when they're keeping score. What I didn't know until 60 seconds ago was that that actually is in play with a two-year-old. You can hear a gym, kids playing basketball on a gym, and you can tell whether they're keeping score just based on the sound the sneakers are making.

Yeah. That's all you need to know. Like, it is a professional. If what we're trying to do is drive human energy and human creativity towards a target, you got to go live. You got to have a scoreboard. You've got to have a visual. Nobody will ever call you into a room and be like, you got to get it. You got to see this game. This is amazing. And you go running into the room and you're like, what's the score? And they're like, I don't know, but they seemed very excited. I thought you would like to see it. They're all running

around, right? No, like they know the score. So on our team, we have a a little, you know, ours is called executive overviews. And it's how many times did we get in front of a leadership team? And for free, we'll do it for free. And just kick this concept around for a couple hours and half of them do pilots, right? But that changes everything in our world. And so the joke is, can we call you at two o'clock in the morning, get you out of a deep sleep and ask you, how are you doing on your lead measures? Yep. And if, if, you know, out of a stupor, if you could say, I've got six, I'm too behind. I'm supposed to be at eight right now. And that's it. You've got to know not only what the goal, you got to know where you are. You've got to be able to tell if you're winning or losing. And that's not

as easy as it sounds like creating the scoreboard in a way that you don't just know where what your number is, but you know where you should be by this time. That one little dynamic seems to create tension that makes the whole process sort of come alive. And then here's the big one. The big idea behind this is this idea of a winnable game. One of the things, if you ask me, what's the most profound insight from 17 years on one problem? It's the overwhelming impact on morale and engagement that is created by a winnable game. Yes. Even if you're having the heck beat out of you in every other aspect of your business. So this is, we're not saying let's make work fun.

We're not saying it's going to be easy. Like you could be in a death spiral financially, or just over your head operationally, or you could be just getting body blows. But if you somewhere in the middle of that chaos, if you can, we have so many stories on this, but it's not intuitive. If somewhere in the middle of that chaos,

you can create a winnable game, even if it's only 15, 20% of your energy. And you can tell, hey, on this one critical strategic area, high stakes, by the way, it's no good to have a winnable game if it doesn't matter. And so, you know, along with predictive and influenceable for lead measures, whatever the game is, high stakes and winnable. And that, and the scoreboard really manifests that. Like a physical right now, are we winning or losing? we know that people can tolerate an enormous amount of pain in order to get to a goal

if one part of their life there's a win. And if you're leading a team, this is doubly important. Yeah. You, you, if you're leading a team, ask yourself a question, do the people who work for me feel like they're playing a win-bogg? Like, I got a guy who books conferences, you guys all know Nick, right, from working with it. Nick's job's like yours, David. He doesn't see the fruits of his effort for months, sometimes years in advance.

So, you know, we got to work through what's a target you can win at this month. Like, take it down. And that's what the scoreboard should be a picture of. But for whatever reason, we need that. We need to have that connection. Well, it combats what you said earlier, which is the futility when it overwhelms you. Totally. Right?

This is a way of, like, manipulating the game so that you don't feel like your efforts are futile. You're winning these small battles, even if they're not necessarily fruitful. they won't be till later, right? Because the reality is it's like turning a jack in the box. You're just sitting there, you don't know when it's going to pop. But it's going to pop. And I noticed I just did this myself.

I went out for a hike after church yesterday. And I really did not want to go. And what I did was I set my timer and I did like three miles or so as fast as I could do it. And now I have a goal. Like the next time I go hiking, I will be running and walking on the uphill parts trying to beat that time. right and so it creates the sense of urgency so when i get started to get tired you'll kill yourself for that even though it doesn't make any sense that's exactly yes it's the same exercise you'll do it but i'll stay

motivated because if i can beat my time from the time before i feel like i'm making progress and that tricks my brain into thinking this is worth it and now that that hike doesn't seem like oh i have to go hiking it's like oh i'm going to beat that time from last time yeah yeah that little shot of dopamine that you get with score i'm i'm so i've i picked up a slalom waters king so i'm like i'm Like, I'm into this thing. It's not as cool as surfing, Brandon. I get it. We're on lakes.

There's a boat. I know, but it's still kind of cool, right? And I got it down to lag and lead measures. My goal by the end of the year is six balls at 33 miles an hour at 22 off the rope. And my lead measures are, and David, it's the ability to run four times a week at three miles and 20 minutes so that I have enough energy when I get out there to actually. to actually improve, and then I got to be on the water twice a week during the summer. But David, to your point, when I'm on that treadmill, like right now, the best I've gotten in 20 minutes is 2.8 miles. And I got to, my goal, my lead measures to get that at three

miles. And it's ridiculous how much energy I will put into something. Oh, and last, last thing on this, less thing on this. Sometimes people have an allergic reaction to the word game, GAME. and they think it introduces sort of a frivolity or a level of maybe it's not that important. And I think nothing could be further from the truth. You want to get unbridled human engagement, energy, and creativity introduce a game. Oh, I'll tell you. That couple that you thought was normal until you had them over for game night and you realized a couple of kids.

Yeah. I'm like that. I can't, like, I used to go to the gym and watch guys playing basketball and be like, I'll just get a little sweat before I go lift weights, right? The minute I stepped on the court and my team went down by a point, some monster comes out of me. And I'm like, I got like, you know, like guys that are this, they just suck. They have no idea what they're doing on my team. And I'm sitting there trying to coach them up.

Like, I just turned into this incredibly productive machine because I cannot stand losing. And I would end up getting a really, really good workout, right? Right. More than you would do, right? And if I had just, yes. Yes, you will push yourself in the context of the beginning. That's what it comes down to. than you would.

You know, you tell people, if you don't quit smoking cigarettes, you're going to die. They don't stop. They keep smoking. Like, logic for some reason is not a great driver of human behavior. You've got to get your emotions involved in it. Information makes you think, but emotion makes you act. And what we're describing are ways that you get your emotion behind you. Yes.

Right. And by the way, leaders, when you start one of these, you're going to have to turn the jack in the box prank. I got a new metaphor, for a while before you start getting some pops, before your team starts believing. That's why you're the leader. You're the leader because you believe and you can stay with it longer than they can. So am I creating a high-stakes winnable game? And the last one on this, so my nine-year-old, she's a little soccer player.

And if you've ever gone out and if you ever done this, right, they're not supposed to keep score. Every kid knows it's five nothing. on the other kids. And it's all the parents can do from not killing each other, right? And you get these parents, and you get these parents screaming at each other,

it's just a game. That's a good point. No, no, no, no, no. The reason we're all screaming at each other is because it's a game, not just a game. That's so good. Okay, so let's talk about the look of a scorecard

because now a lot of people are saying, oh, cool, I, you know, duh, keep track of your numbers, right? I got loads of spreadsheets all over my computer. Yeah, thank you. I can pull up 20 different spreadsheets that show you exactly how many deals I analyzed and how many, you know, property they made an offer on. So what's the big deal?

I got scorecards up the wazoo. Yeah. What's wrong with that? Every one of these disciplines has a counterintuitive element, right? Discipline one, I got to say no to some good ideas. I hate that. Discipline two, I'm going to track lead measures. The one for discipline three is on exactly what you're talking about.

You're going to create a player's scoreboard, not a coach's scoreboard. The scoreboard you use for understanding your overall operations. is a coach's scoreboard. It looks like a spreadsheet. Some of you have very advanced models. Others are simple, but it's a lot of data, and it's meant for a broad view. When you identify a wildly important goal, you're taking something on that operation and you're sort of taking it to intensive care. And that requires a scoreboard that looks and feels exactly like a players scoreboard. So just think about that contrast. That's all you need to know. At halftime, at a basketball game, coach, I'm going to give you a bunch of data. You're going to know

turnovers, you're going to know shot percentage. You're going to have a whole bunch of business, a whole bunch of data to analyze the operation. And you need that, but that ain't this. This is a lag and a lead or two. And it's a bet. And that's all you want to see. Think high goals, shots on goals. Oh, oh, football. Remember first downs is the lead measure? The networks know this. They don't even know they know this. They give you two pieces of information on a football game. They give you score and they give you down in distance. It's 14 to 7, right, third and five. I don't even need to know who's playing.

Somebody needs a first down. Yeah. Right? You got me. I'm hooked just from those two pieces of data. If you want to engage the team, same thing. So simple, I mean, like on our online version, we just show like a lag measure moving along a bar and it goes red, yellow, green based on the input.

It knows where you need to be. Red yellow or green based on the input. The lags or the leads are the same. So you can just look at it and go, all right, I'm still green on my lag measure, but my leads have now one's red and one's yellow. Like a month ago, they were both green and I'm slipping. Yep. And it's the ugly mirror.

And all right, so what am I going to do this week to move that lead, get that lead moving again? Yep. I love that. And the simplicity is so important too. Like, I want to be able to look in five seconds at a scorecard and know, are you winning or losing? And are you doing what you say you're going to be doing? So those two things, right, like that you want to track. Yeah.

And if I can tell that, so like Ryan, who's on my real estate team, who's up me, like, you'll build up our portfolio, I mean, he's got this big fat number. It just says percentage. What's our occupancy percentage? 94.5%. Great. We are not at 95. We're almost there, but that's a whole lot better.

And we have a little graph, a very simple graph. It shows there to there. And here's where we should be. And we're just below, you know, now we're over 95. And now we're like 95. whatever, but like, we're there. Like, like, super simple. Like, it's really great. Look at it, right? I just love that idea of like, again, the scale and then how many times that I work out? I mean, I know right now, like I worked out four times in the past week. Great. That's my lead measure and

my weight. What was 173 last time I checked, right? So like, I just know like this is my scorecard. And now it's really, really simple. So again, complex stuff. I was actually looking at bigger pockets is like the actual bigger pockets corporation, like their financial scorecard. It's literally like, millions of pieces of information. It's absurd, like everywhere, right? I don't care. All I care about for my bigger pockets roll, number of pro-annual members. I can tell you, I'm not going to say it, but I can tell you exactly the number of pro-annual members we have as of this morning, because that is my like simple scorecard. That's where the disproportionate energy has got to go. Yep. And I know that we see through. Execution does not like complexity. The two best friends of

execution are simplicity and transparency, but that's easier said than done. You had to work to get to that level of simplicity and transparency. That simple doesn't mean easy. Yeah. Simple can be hard. Yep. Yep. Yep. So for real estate investors out there, find a way to create that scoreboard. I mean, it could be as simple as a big whiteboard even, right? And I, like, my goal was five deals analyzed this week. I did three, right? I'm losing right now. And like, or my, My cash flow number is this. This is where I wanted to get to. It's just keep that simple.

I mean, in fact, I built this new office. I'd have like the shed office. It's like a C shed, I call it. And in here, like I specifically wired it so I could put a TV in the corner. That TV is, I'm going to hook it up to its little computer that you can buy, like USB-style computer. It's like four inches. I'm going to have it permanently wired to show my occupancy level of my rental properties.

On the wall always. And I might have like, you know, alternate. So switches between bigger pockets, goals, real estate goals, weight goals. But like, I want it all times, I can look up in the corner of my room and on my little nine-inch TV or whatever, it's going to be like, it's going to show what my scorecard is at all times. Because like once you know the score, just like in a basketball game and you see that you're down by three points, I mean, have you guys ever watched a football game, right?

We're like, I used to those with the Seahawks. I was a huge Seahawks fan for a while. If they were losing at the end, I mean, if they were, I mean, any teams like this, right? If you're down two points, five points, whatever, at the end of the game, It's amazing that like that drive, how they catch every ball. Energy. And it's just, that's the most fun part of a game is when you're down one score and they got to get down that field.

It's the best playing of the game. It always is, right? Because they know the score. It's there. They're so close to it. So anyway, score. So the other thing you're hearing as you're listening to Brandon and this is like, for me guys, this is like cheating.

Thank you so much. Like, this is so great. Like you're bringing all the examples. But what you're hearing is he's creating a high stakes game. game. It's got to be winnable. It's got to be high stakes. And nobody likes preseason because it doesn't have any, there's no, doesn't have any accountability. It doesn't matter if you win or lose. And you can hear he is, he is trying to trick himself into a high stakes game mentality. And it's not hard to push yourself when you're playing a high stakes game. That's also why I shorten the goals to 90 days instead of a

year or five years. Emergency. Yeah. Get that going. All right. So let's recap real quick. Number one was to set that wildly important, you know, focus on the wildly important. Number two, focus on the lead measures, or identify and focus on those lead measures. Three, have that scorecard that you're tracking that on a regular basis. Let's go. What's number four? All right. So think about one, two, and three as a formula for setting up the game. Four is how you play the game. Okay. So just those two things. And if you set it up right, it should feel like high stakes

winnable game. Sometimes you have to play it a while before it gets that feeling, but that's what you're going for. Discipline four, now, and we're pretty prescriptive about this. we're saying, all right, there's some magic to the period of time known as the week. Yep. Our whole lives work on this cadence. And also the nature of the activities that help our lead measures sometimes have to be blocked and scheduled. Right. Like I got to find the properties.

You know, I'm out of prospective properties to do research on. So I got to go pull this. I got to talk to somebody. Or, you know what? My research is coming up really short because. I don't have this information and I got to go get that information. So what do I have to do this week to increase the likelihood I'm going to keep my lead measures going? So the primary bet is that the leads move the lag. But the goal, this weekly cadence is a meeting every week and you have to

find someone. If you're a sole proprietor, if you're an individual entrepreneur, it won't work being self-accountable. I'm sorry. This is what we found. I mean, maybe you're the fluke exception. Let us know. We'd like to study you without her harming you. But for everybody else, you got to have somebody to report.

I mean, this is why Weight Watchers does this. This is why you got to call in the out. It's like these are universal truths. Right. So what this looks like is every week I make a couple of commitments to put, you've heard the expression, force against leverage. Like the scoreboard shows. me the leverage play against the rock, but now I got to put muscle against it. So even though I got

50 things I got to do this week, remember we said, I know I got to focus, but I also know I got, like 80% of my life is whirlwind. I don't even know where this is going to come from, but I'm going to squeeze in a couple of commitments. All right. If I'm David, I am going to find three interesting anecdotes about the market to share this week, fresh anecdotes. That will never be urgent. But because I made the commitment and Brandon's my accountability partner, it just got urgent. Like I just fooled my brain that I got to do that. If I'm Brandon, all right, I've got to identify some additional perspective properties. I've got to give me one, David.

I got to get additional research. Something I can do this week. I'm going to get a help. I'm going to get a helper on this. What can I do to hedge the bet that I'm actually going to get the leads done this week or improve the quality? or maybe there's something, and it's not exactly lined up with the leads, but boy, if I could get that done, that would move me a long way towards my lag. So sometimes I'll sometimes on this commitment, I won't be tunnel focused on the leads.

I'll go a little out of bounds on some opportunity. But I'm always putting pressure on the bet. And that constant pressure, it works. Einstein said there are a few problems. See if I can see if I can do this without butchering it. there are a few problems that can withstand the constant onslaught of human thought. Like you bring it every week and this appointment is locked in. Like at 9 o'clock on Tuesdays, you have to be on this call.

And don't, if you have an accountability partner, don't make it easy. Don't make it preseason. Make it playoffs. Like, all right, David, what's going to be different this week so that you actually get your commitments done? Like, give me something. Or, you know, that commitment sounds like that was something you were going to do anyways. And you just needed something to say in this call. Yeah.

Like, I got to put like a trainer at a gym. Like you're each other's trainer. Can you push on them? And if you're a leader and you have a team, let the team members lead the meeting. Like you get it started. Let them, let them lead the meeting. Let it be a team goal. If you have a team, let them pick the lead measures.

You give them options. Let them pick. Yep. But this cadence, if you do the first three disciplines, cleanse and you don't do the fourth, the world wind owns this whole thing. It's gone in three weeks. I swear it. That's how good your willpower lasts, right? About three weeks, that's what you get. So this meeting, if you can hold to that meeting and come with the data from your lead measures, we had organizations that have been running this, some of the best organizations at Wegman's

grocery stores in the Northeast and Marriott. Some of the best companies in the world have been running this for almost a decade because they hold that meeting. Sorry, I was ranting. No, that's great. I really think that it's that meeting, that weekly, and it's holding to it because if you, if you start getting relaxed and I mean, this is how I've, I've not been the best with. Yeah, when I miss a week or two, like, there's what I'm going. I've been traveling, I'm busy, whatever, like, and I miss my wig with Ryan about my real estate wig, right? So we, our real estate thing. Guess what? Vacancy doesn't move. Occupacy levels don't move. Yeah. It goes so fast. It's so fast. It's just gone. And so, like, if you don't have that, like, that, just that structure of this is when we meet.

In fact, I just told Ryan the other day, I said, Ryan, we're going to start establishing a day that this happens. And if I'm on a flight, I'm changing that flight or I'm canceling that flight, this is getting done. Because, like, do I commit, am I serious about this or not? Do I really want these goals or not? Am I willing to put some pressure there? And I bet you if I miss a flight, because I scheduled at the same time as my meeting, that'll never happen again. Because, like, I'm going to, that's the punishment I take for not taking my, my own. See how he's bringing it? This is he, Brandon's going to win.

Brandon lives in Hawaii, everyone. Brandon, Brandon is going to win because he's making it a high stakes winnable game. Like, we've covered, we've covered a lot of technical stuff. But I love this expression that when it comes to people, intent counts more than technique. So even if you can't remember, and it's got to be true in your business. I mean, this is kind of what you've done with the. podcast. Even if some of the technique is off, if you've got the right intent, you tend to make the right decisions and you tend to get the results. And this idea that it's a high stakes winnable game.

And he's not just lip servicing that like he's canceling flights. He's giving me so much ammunition, by the way. Right. That is really needy stuff. And it sends a message to the team. One of our early leaders at Marion, I mentioned them early on. He was at the Olympics in China in Beijing. And he was calling, we call him wig sessions. That's what we call this 20-minute meeting. He was calling in at 2 o'clock in the morning, Beijing time, to be on it. What do you think that? What message did that send to the team? He's getting up in the middle of the night to be on this call. And last thought that this idea is that you can probably tell if you're hearing this for the first time, there's a little bit of pain associated with each discipline. And that should, that should lend some

credibility to what we're talking about. But remember that the pain of discipline beats the pain of regret. Jim Rohn, he's a motive. I love that. I got that jewel from him. But just remember, like in the moment, it's going to stink to follow through on that commitment. And we hear people say all the time, like they get to the end of the week, just like you did, just like when you didn't go surfing. You're at the end of the week and you're like, I'm not going to walk into that meeting and not have my commitments done. Like, I'm not going to, like, that's pain that you're feeling right there. And, you know, but, but in the end, right, can contrast it with this pain.

It's the end of the week and you're exhausted and you're going home and it's late on a Saturday night. And you worked Saturday too. You promise yourself you wouldn't, but you worked Saturday. And you're going home and this sickening realization hits you in the gut and you realize, I'm not sure I got anything done. like that that feeling like you have to be a working adult to understand that concept like but that feeling right there and it's a little bit of futility like you put you put a couple of those weeks back to back and that's when people people start falling out yeah can i can i see

even though there's pain in the moment the pain in the moment is so worth it compared to that other really crappy i didn't get anything done i'm not making any progress i'm not sure this is working Like, that's a dark, that's a dark place. Yeah. I'm sorry, they got heavy right there. I did not mean it to get heavy. No, heavy is good. I mean, this is life-changing stuff.

I really believe that. I mean, we, you know, I mentioned earlier, we launched this journal a few months ago, and we sold out. We don't even have any more right now, but there are more coming at some point. Yeah, 90-day of intention journal. When we launched it, based on basically, I mean, really based on me reading this book and looking at research and talking with some people, I realized the accountability thing was so important. So when we didn't just launch a journal, we launched the journal, we launched the journal.

the journal combined with these mastermind groups. Now, again, right and at this very moment, we don't have them. We're not doing it right now because we're going to relaunch here probably July, I think. But when we do, we're going to do the same thing. We're going to launch with mastermind groups because when you're a real estate investor, you don't necessarily have a team and a boss that's going to be meeting with you. So even if like, right, yeah, if you're listening to this and you don't have that ability right now, go on the bigger pockets forums and meet people, start connecting, find some in your area,

go to local meetups and say, hey, can we do this weekly wig meeting together? and this is what I want us to do. And this is, this is, I actually put this in the instructions because, and I don't know if you specifically Chris said this in the book or if I just added it in my head. But basically, I require people to use the words like this week I commit to blank. And then when they come back at the meeting, they have to say, I make my whole team do this. Last week I committed to blank. I love this.

Let me tell you, my co-author, Jim Hewling, is like giving you a hug right now. That is, that is so great. And by the way, and I'll tell you, these mastermind groups, the group the guy was on with today with the animal hospitals, it was a mastermind group. These things, if you're, if you are running a business and you're not part of a mastermind group, you don't, I don't have words enough to describe. We've worked with enough of them. Yep.

And I've done some entrepreneurial efforts to know that that is. Yeah, it's almost irresponsible not to be part of one. Yeah, I agree because like it's hard to maintain that. Yeah, it's hard to maintain that consistent with yourself. When you have somebody else there, I mean, like research show, I mean, I could pull out tons of studies, but like the research shows like adding that accountability piece, like just dramatically increases the chance that stuff gets done. Well, all you got to do is do this.

Think about and, you know, you think about the idea that you had last week where you said, oh, I wish I knew that. Yep. I wish I knew that two years ago. Like that, we have a. an idea and we wish we'd had it two years ago you're part of a think tank you're going to hear this stuff and you know anyways it's and then and then like like brandon said the accountability tension somebody said something to jerry seinfeld on an interview the comedian yeah he's an intense

dude matter of fact you if you ever if you ever would interview him right like like like like you want to be Like he eats interviewers. Like it's like a little brutal with them. It's something makes you uncomfortable. But somebody said something to him about, well, you don't have to work anymore. And he went at him. And he said, is that really what you believe? You don't think I have to work.

You only say that because you know I have a lot of money. He said, this is, he says, I'm not happy unless I'm, I mean, he went back and redeveloped his whole stand-up routine. The hardest work you can do, it's brutally difficult. and life is in that tension. And I hope this is okay to say, but I'd say, listen, if you're working and you're doing this so that one day you don't have to work,

that's a little bit screwed up. I agree. It will be a very hollow victory for you. The tension, you know, I had another mentor, this guy, Roger Merrill, who said that, you know, the kid that looks at the grandfather's taking a little kid out with a kite. and the kid wants the kite to go higher and higher and higher and finally the kid realizes that what's holding the kite back is the string, the tension.

And he says to the grandpa, let go with the string. The grandfather thinks, I'm going to teach him a lesson. He lets go with the string and the tension's gone and the kite comes down. That results tension in our lives, even though we curse it and it haunts us sometimes. We're sort of built for it. and happy people are engaged in some good, worthy work. So embrace these disciplines. The point is not to get out of work, right?

We should have balance in our lives, but winnable high stakes games and embrace a little bit of the pain that goes with it. That is fantastic summary of this. So very, very cool. I'm glad you mentioned that. Like, it's not about sitting on the beach doing nothing, no work. I mean, I joke about like I go surfing,

but I little bit to a couple times a week. Like just like I got people go and do other things. Like, I work my tail off. David Green here is the hardest worker I've ever met. Neither of us have to work necessarily. We could stay in bed all day watching TV. We would be miserable. You could be miserable inside a week.

Yeah, you'll be slid your wrists. Yep. Yeah, it's horrible. It's like I worked my tail off in my 20s so that in my 30s I could work even harder. Yeah, and sometimes you get to do the work you want to do, right? Yep. Sometimes it's work you don't want to do. And then you get to do fun or work, but don't curse the work.

Yep. Yeah, so good. That's exactly right. Yeah, and don't think the goal is to not work. The goal is to get to do work that you enjoy or that's rewarding or that you feel is developing you in a way that you're becoming the kind of person that you were meant to be. Very, very good.

All right, well, those are the four disciplines again. We're going to jump into one last quick segment here. I know it's going to be a long show. I heard I heard I was a regular. We're going to ask you a series of just four quick questions. And then we'll close. Yeah, this is a speed round. We call this the world fan.

Famous For. Now let's get to the famous four. The same four questions we ask every guest every week to kind of close things up. Number one, we're going to change it a little bit because normally we ask a favorite real estate related book, but we're going to go with, do you have a favorite self-improvement or personal growth book? And I'm going to go with besides your own and besides the seven habits. Thank you. Thank you. Because that would have been consternated. Yeah. So James Allen's as a man thinketh. It was written about 1904. and it is profound on that topic we were talking earlier about how our thinking really affects our lives. This is some heavy. You can read it in an afternoon and it'll really spin you around.

As a man think of James Allen. And then as a man or as a woman thinketh is the new title. So is a PC version of that going on. Okay. Okay. What is your favorite business book besides June? Oh, I am a, I'm a huge fan of Jim Collins' original book, Built to Last. I like Good to Great. Everybody knows them for Good to Great. But I think, and I think maybe for your audience, you know, the whole getting the early DNA of your organization right, I am built to last far and away. His first work, Collins and Porras. I've not read that one.

I've read, I mean, I read Good to Great. Everybody's read Good to Great. Yeah, you might like Built to Last even more. I'll check that out for sure. I'll add it to my list today. Cool. All right, number three. Other than slalom water skiing and raising seven kids, what are some of your hobbies? That's, you really took a lot off the table. I know, I just realized that. I didn't really need anywhere to go with that, did I?

You really did. Okay. I got one, though. I'm an Air Force Navy fighter plane geek. So I like fighter combat simulators. And I'm just very into the whole strategy of air combat is a past time. Is your favorite song Highway to the Danger Zone from Top Gun? I could tear up. Like, I get, sorry. What would your nickname? Your body's right.

Your ego's right in chicks. Your body can't cash. You're dangerous. I know. I almost joined the Navy after watching that. I'd have been scrubbing barnacles like, hey, when do I get to fly the jets? They're like, keep scrubbing.

Oh, funny. Okay. Last question from me. Yeah, I love your number. All right. Last one from me. What sets apart successful business people, successful entrepreneur, successful real estate investors, successful anybody achievers from all those who give up, they fail or they just refuse to get started. It didn't really boil it down. We talked about so many elements today, but I would bet, if I'm a betting man, I would bet on the leader who doesn't quit over the smart leader. Like a person, like that falling in love with a problem, that person that will just be a variation in natural selection machine,

somebody that will just stay in a business until they get it right. People, mistakes are really okay. They really, like, that's how you progress. And somebody that will just keep coming. coming at a problem, they win. They always win. That's what you see. By the way, I get spent a lot of time with a lot of executives that have risen up the, right? They're very personally disciplined people and they have, they're relentless. They have no quit in them. That's who gets there. It's good. Yeah, really good. Really good. All right, Chris, this has been fantastic. Can you tell

us where people can find out more about you? Yeah, just go to the Franklincovy.com website on the web or Chris McChesney 4DX.com. Go there as well. All right. We'll put links to all that. Or go to, yeah, or go to Brandon and David's website, show 328.

Yeah, BiggerPocket.com's like show 328. We'll put links there. And there'll be, there'll be an outline of cities that we're coming to next year. Yeah, perfect. We'll put it in there. Yeah, thank you so much, Chris.

This has been just unbelievably good. So thank you. Thank you. All right. And that was our interview with Chris Mchesney. Man, that was so much fun. I don't know.

Could you tell how much fun I was having there, David? I mean, I was... That's the most alive that I've seen you in since you were on a wave on a surfboard. Well, thanks. That was fun. I mean, like, it's great to be able to, like, ask questions on a topic that you're just obsessed with. It's kind of like, I mean, you're just obsessed with, like, what, like being awesome and

being the best real estate agent in the world, right? So, like, imagine sitting down with Gary Keller. This was your Gary Keller. to me, right? Yeah, and you took full advantage of that. I would tell everybody who just got done listening to this, you probably owe it to yourself to listen to this another two or three times. I mean, there was a lot of very valuable,

potentially life-changing information given in snippets throughout this thing. And I know if you listen to this more than once you're going to catch stuff that you miss on the first time that has the ability to like significantly improve your life. Yeah, totally agree. So, yeah, go listen to it right now. Anyway, but thank you guys for listening to the show. I'm glad you stuck with this this entire time. Make sure you check out

the show notes at BiggerPockets.com slash show 328. And come hang out and follow Bigger Pockets over on all the Bigger Pockets social networks like Instagram, Facebook and all that. Make sure you're following David over on his Instagram at David Green 24.

That's number 24. And me over at Beardy Brandon on Instagram. I'm almost at 50,000 followers. Oh my gosh. I got to catch him. Please subscribe to me and unsubscribe from Brandon. If you guys can do me a favor, he's blowing me away right now.

And I'm too competitive. Look at that competitive nature, right? It's a scorecard, right? That's exactly right. I don't even care about Instagram followers until I know you have more. Now all of a sudden it's something that matters. Oh, my gosh. That's funny.

Well, maybe you need to work on your lead measures to be able to get there, David. Exactly right. What is the lead measures for growing your Instagram thing? I think it's number of more hashtags that you put out. Yeah, it's like lead measures, right? See how this works for everything? It does. It works for everything.

If you consistently, I mean, let's like wrap up like, before we get out of here, let's wrap up kind of what we talk about today. The four disciplines, right? Number one, set that wildly important goal. So for me, I can tell you all what it is my, my wildly important goal is to get to 200 rental units this year. So my quarterly goal is to get something under contract over the next 90 days. A lead measure. I'm analyzing a couple deals every single week, at least two deals every single week. I'm also making an offer at least every other week on a mobile home park of at least 50 units or greater. Every single,

like, I'm tracking that very specifically on a very simple scorecard that shows where I'm at, how many leads or how many deals have I analyzed? And then I'm meeting every single week with my team. I have both a performance coach and I have Ryan who's on my team. And me and Ryan sit down every week. And we go through, hey, this week, you know what? I need some more leads to analyze. So this week, I commit to reaching out to five brokers or this week I commit to sending direct mail marketing or whatever. Right. There's this commitment. And then Ryan has commitments as well that are working towards the same thing. And because of like, that's how I run my life. That's the entire framework for everything that I do.

So if you can help me out with that, if anybody knows, if any good mobile home parks, 50 units or greater, somewhere in the United States, look me up, shoot me an email, send me a message on Instagram, whatever. And David, anything you're looking for that the audience can help you out with? Looking for agents to work on my real estate team, admin to work on my real estate team, and interns who want to learn real estate sales and investing.

Basically, I was just looking for little disciples that I can pour into, teach them all the stuff I know and then they can go help more people because real estate is powerful and we want to help as many people as we possibly can. Perfect. All right, good deal. Well, thank you all for listening. You all have a great week. Go get your 40X on and make sure you pick up a copy of the book, the four disciplines of execution. I hope you like it as much as I do. I hope they look at half as much as you're a fanatic. But that's sort of I'm looking for a fanatic. I'm a fanatic. All right. Think of it. This is David Green for Brandon. No more guys.

Tommy Bears Turner, signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online.

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