BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 34: Virtual Real Estate Investing and How to Find Great Deals in a Hot Market with Anson Young

Episode Date: September 5, 2013

Many investors find themselves trapped by a heated market – but today’s guest shows that it is fully possible to invest in real estate – even in a hot real estate market. Anson Young, who lives in the Denver area, joins us today to chat about finding great deals locally and virtually, as well as tips for working with agents, dealing with assignments, and a whole lot more. Anson is a fun guy who has a ton of awesome tips to share with everyone, so don’t miss today’s show! Read the transcript to episode 34 with Anson Young here. In This Show, We Cover The “crap jobs” that led to Anson’s real estate investing career How Anson partnered on his first deal without doing any labor Finding great deals on the MLS How Anson finds the best neighborhoods to invest in How to wholesale virtually What to do if you don’t have direct MLS access Using the “Short Sale Time Machine” to build equity How to get around the “non assignment” clause when wholesaling bank repos Mistakes made by Anson when getting started And much more… Links from the Show The Real Estate Agent’s Ultimate Guide to Working with Investors  The Book on Flipping Houses  The Book on Estimating Rehab Costs The BiggerPockets Forums The 21 Best Real Estate Books Ever The BiggerPockets REI Resource Center Books Mentioned in the Show: Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki Millionaire Real Estate Investor by Gary Keller The Four Hour Workweek by Timothy Ferriss Crush It by Gary Vaynerchuk Tweetable Topics Working crappy jobs can be a good way to get started with real estate investing (Tweet This!) Plan with the end in mind. (Tweet This!) You are either consistent or non-existent. (Tweet This!) Connect with Anson Anson’s BiggerPockets Profile Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast, show 34. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's up, everybody? This is Josh Dork and host of the Bigger Pockets podcast and founder of BiggerPockets.com. Happy to be here with you guys today alongside. I'm actually not alongside, but I'm virtually alongside my good buddy, good buddy, Brandon Turner. What's up, buddy?

Hey, Josh, Dorkin. How the heck are you? Oh, boy. I'm good, man. I'm good. It's a cheesy episode right here. Oh my God. It's about to begin. Well, we've got Anson on. We do have Anson and he is not cheesy. He is hilarious. Anson is a funny, funny dude. So we'll introduce him later. But yeah, Listen, everything's good. Very excited to be back for yet another episode of the show. Excited that our development team on Bigger Pockets is off of vacation and back working away, making cool things happen. But, yeah, things are great. Things are great.

I'm very excited about the show to come. Me too. Me too, definitely. I just got done with the Minnesota State Fair. I was there twice in the past three days. and yeah it was good i'm on a little vacation to minnesota so i'm heading back home tomorrow that's awesome yeah you know for anyone listening i i've actually put out a challenge to brandon across the past week to uh get videos of himself chowing down on some deep fried butter or

something else you know real state fairish and and he just totally wussed out i i took a picture of the the deep fried candy bar booth or bacon or deep fried candy bar wrapped bacon. I think it was, something like that. Anyway, I did not enjoy that. I just had a pranop and it was amazing. It was like a corn dog, but good stuff. Yeah. Now, well, you know, if you guys are listening and you are going to a

state fair, we want a photo of you eating something deep fried and nasty. So send us your deep fried butter picks. Yes, please. All right. So on to the show here. Before we go and start the interview, we are going to do our quick tip.

Quick tip. Yeah. So today's quick tip is unanswered posts. If you go to the forums, you'll see at the top of biggerpockets.com slash forums, you'll see a tab that says unanswered. If you go there, you will see posts that people have spent time

asking questions and sharing their thoughts. And these are people who are waiting for a response from you. So please jump in, check out those unanswered posts because you can help your colleagues, make new friends, and be a value

member of the Bigger Pockets community by doing so. And hopefully you will jump in and make that happen. So quick tip, make it happen. Good tip. Yeah, yeah, for sure. All right, so on today's show, we have Anson Young as a guest. Anson is a flipper and wholesaler here in the friendly confines of the Denver, Colorado area. Anson does some virtual wholesaling, and he's actually a licensed real estate agent as well.

Anson's been in the game now for eight years, and as I said earlier, he's really a funny guy. He's currently running the bigger pockets, unofficial meetup for the Denver area. And so if you're a local, you definitely want to link up with him. And if you're not local, you still want to link up with him because he's doing deals around the country now virtually, which is awesome and which we're going to talk about. For decades, real estate has been a cornerstone of the world's largest portfolios. But it's also historically been sort of complex, time-consuming, and expensive. But imagine if real estate investing was suddenly easy,

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How's it going, man? I'm doing well. How are you guys? Great, great. Yeah, man, doing awesome. Doing very good. It's very cool to have you. I think you're our first local Denver guy that we're interviewing, so that's pretty cool.

That's good. I could be doing this from your kitchen table, but phone calls just isn't personal. Yes, yes, exactly. Well, I didn't want my face that close to yours next to my giant blue microphone. Yes, I've heard about those things. Yeah, didn't you and I do that, Josh, back, like, I don't remember what episode that was, but we recorded from your kitchen table. Yeah, I was a little nervous as your math came close to mine every time somebody had something to say.

It was weird. Yeah, yeah, we're pretty classy. All right, well, let's get into the interview here, Anson. Why don't we just start out with a basic question? What do you do? What kind of investing do you do? I do mainly wholesaling these days. I've done flipping and wholesaling, currently wholesaling, and actually kind of revans.

my flipping business to get back into it. Because that's what I really, really like to do. There's stories involved in that that we can get into later. But wholesaling is primary right now. And how'd you end up getting into that? How'd you start out as an investor? What got you going? As an investor, I started out like a lot of people do.

I got a gift of rich dad, poor dad. And while that gave me a good mindset, I ended up reading it on the way. down to Phoenix as we were moving, my wife and I. And right when I landed, I basically just started in with trying to get in with people who were doing what I wanted to do, which was just investing. Started with the book. Obviously, it expanded from there. I ended up taking a lot of crap jobs from investors and agents in order to kind of get my feet wet, pay my dues, and get started. Nice.

Can I actually ask what kind of jobs were those? Can we go into that a little bit? Because a lot of people, they want to know how to kind of get started, and I think that's a good way to do it. And doing crap jobs is a good way to get started. That is. That's a tweetable topic right there.

Crap jobs. That's right. I ended up doing just a lot of things that other people didn't want to do. I was from running contracts to actually installing signs. and paperwork, BPO's. I did a lot of BPO's and valuation type stuff. Were you an agent at the time or now? Not at the time, no. But I got a good start with basically, here's the MLS. I'm going to park you in front of it for eight hours. You're going to do a certain amount of BPO's,

and you're going to go out and try to find deals for us kind of thing. And really quick, tell everyone what a BPO is for those people. Oh, I'm sorry. It's a broker price opinion, and it's something that a bank will hire an agent to do to give their broker price opinion on a certain property, whether it's a short sale or an REO. Got it. All right. So you're doing these crappy jobs, and then what? So I'm doing these crap jobs. And then basically I came into a source of deals, which was an REO agent, who's a good friend of mine. And I ended up partnering. I had a deal, but I didn't have any money. And I ran into another agent who had money, but didn't have any deals.

So it's obviously a match made in heaven. We partnered up to do our first flip deal here in Denver. And it actually worked out really well. That partnership, we still partner on and off on deals even today. Nice. Nice. So what was that? Yeah.

What? What a time, boy? Yeah, I got. All right, let me, I got this. All right. So can you like tell us a little bit more about, can you tell us a little bit more about that actual first deal? Absolutely. It was an Oreo that I got under contract and then I went and we partnered up with this other agent who was just bringing the money.

And he's a very good handyman type. He can do A to Z with construction, probably not the crazy electrical stuff or anything that's, you know, from the ground up construction, but he can do full rehabs. So we went in, bought this place for 80 grand, and we ended up putting in about $14,000. So it was kind of a lipstick rehab. It didn't need anything crazy. And he did all the work. And I came in and helped. I probably messed up a few things when I came in to help.

I'm not handy at all. And then we ended up selling it for about 144, and obviously we did okay on it. So it was a great match. Nice. I think the partnership idea when flipping houses is an awesome idea. I think a lot of people try to flip houses, and they want to do it on their own the first time

because I think I don't want to split 50% of my profit, but I think it's a great idea. I've done it a number of times. I'd say half of my flips I've done have been with a partner of some kind. I agree. And that one was more of a 70-30 arrangement. I was going to ask, okay, good. Yeah, I didn't do any of the work. I did find the deal, and I did help sell it. Obviously, at that time, I was an agent already, so I did help sell it. And, you know, obviously, just bringing a deal shouldn't get you 50% of the money unless, you know,

unless your partner is comfortable with that. But he did most of the work, so he should get most of the money. And 30% of something is better than nothing. So he managed the entire project as well then, is what you're saying? He did, absolutely. Okay, okay. Right on. Okay, so that's not bad. I mean, you got this first deal off the ground. And, you know, from there, did you guys continue to do deals together, or did you go off on your own? How did that flow? Well, the next deal that, that I found was a pretty thin deal. And so what I did is I ended up wholesaling it to him. And he went ahead and put in his own money and fixed and flipped it on his own. And I went on, found a private money partner to fund my next three deals. And so I did the next three on my own without a partner. So I just did the private hard money

route and went from there. So you said it was a thin deal, but he went ahead and did it anyway. So you you went and you wholesale it. Did he actually end up making any money? Or was it a deal that in retrospective was kind of a crap wholesale deal that a more experienced flipper may not have taken? That's not how I roll, Josh. Not calling you out or anything. I know you wouldn't do that today, of course. No, of course. It's, it was still a good deal. It was just too thin to split 50-50 we felt. And so with his money involved, it was better just to pay me, you know, two grand or $2,500 for it. And he went on to make good money on it. So I don't feel, I don't feel too bad for him. Okay. Well, was it two or $2,500? Which was it?

It was a while ago. I believe it was $2,500. I'm kidding, man. I'm just two tops. But yeah, I got you. Well, that makes sense. So, you know, in this case, you're working with the guy. there's a deal. There's definitely money to be had. However, just splitting that opportunity wasn't necessarily going to work. So I think it's a good point for listeners, you know, that sometimes a deal is still a deal, but it may not be a deal if you have to start slicing it up amongst other people. Exactly. That's correct. I did a flip last year and I think we made at the end combined $15,000, but then we had to split that. So we got $7,500 and then I paid taxes on that. I think I ended up with, you know, under five, by the time I was done. And that was exactly that thing. It was probably too thin. I shouldn't have partnered on that one. But yeah, it worked out. I mean, it was still five grand, but yeah.

Yeah, it's a lot of work for five grand, too. All right. So how are you actually finding these deals, Anson? I am a MLS guy from the beginning. It's just kind of my roots of where I started. I'm a MLS junkie, as it were. And pretty much everything has come from there. That's I've done so far, except for a handful of off-market stuff. Nice. Do you find that drying up now? It is getting a little thinner. However, we're still finding decent deals.

You just have to really know how to dig for them. And you have to dig a lot deeper these days. And you're finding these on the MLS? Yes, sir. In the city of Denver. In Denver, yes. Right on. So what address?

Now I'm just kidding. Well, you know, because I'm not looking for deals in Denver or anything like that. But if I was, I would. Yes, nice. All right. So, okay, that's great. That's great. So you're still digging there.

You're not doing any direct mail or any other kind of marketing then? I've been testing direct mail. I see the advantages of off-market. And I've done test marketing starting last October and just kind of trying to find what exactly I want to do. there and I've been reaching out on bigger pockets to kind of find what what's working for other people and try to mimic that so I don't have to reinvent the wheel or anything but there's a lot of there's a lot of really good direct mail guys there so it's a great resource to to tap into for sure yeah that is kind of like the popular thing right now is direct mail and and I keep

talking about it every show and I haven't actually officially started yet but you know we'll get there so uh um you are you said you're buying Denver are you are you doing any work elsewhere as well or is it just Denver is that you're kind of what you've been working on? Denver was what I've been working on mostly. I do have MLS access in a number of different areas like Phoenix and I lived in Phoenix for a couple years and I understand the areas really well and have been looking for deals on and off there and in well I also have thanks to partners and friends and agents and kind of just networking. I do have MLS access in a number of different cities

and have been doing sporadic deals here and there. I'm trying to kind of nail down how I want to best utilize that. There's only so many hours of the day. So I think I'm going to have to bring in VAs or something to help with, if I'm going to build a business around it, there has to be a structure there. So right now there's not a structure. I understand that I can find sporadic deals there.

and sell them, but the volume isn't huge. It's not impressive, let's say that. Right on, right on. Well, let me ask you, how important do you really think it is to fully understand an area, understand a neighborhood before you start scouting for deals? I think it's pretty important. I've found that, you know, if you do have MLS access, the easiest way to find what's hot is to search cash sales in the last six months.

you know, find a really hot area that has a lot of cash sales. And then you have a pretty good baseline of where investors are buying in that neighborhood. If they're buying three-toes for 100 grand, and then you go on and you search the same area for FHA sales or conventional sales when these things are all fixed up and you see if they're selling for 200, let's say. You pretty much have a good general baseline of a neighborhood. Doing BPO's for a long time, I understand that you, you know, you're not going to cross any major streets. You want to stay within that subdivision, if possible. And you should have a

pretty good baseline. Investors are buying for 100. They're reselling for 200. You know that pretty much if a deal comes on for 100 or 95 or 90, that you better jump on it because it's likely a good deal. So can you use that then? Say, you know, I said, you know what, Anson, I want to, I don't know, let's go wholesale some houses in Fairfax, Virginia. Can you literally find somebody who's got the MLS access, jump on and start doing a similar search, cash sales in the last six months, and find deals and opportunities that way? Does that just work?

Or do you have to have boots on the ground to really have a good idea of what we're dealing with? Well, I'm going to say the first one, that I've got it to work with just doing it virtually. Obviously, having boots on the ground, you have a more intimate knowledge of areas. And there's a lot of people who live and invest there, who will say, I won't invest on this street for this reason. And obviously, I wouldn't know that from a top-down perspective

just on the MLS, you know, from my office in Colorado. So, but that said, I've had it work virtually. for a few years now. Just having the experience of doing a couple hundred BPO's every year for a few years has given me the experience to say, I know what I'm looking for just based on the raw data. Every now and then you'll get something really strange where if you did have boots on the ground, you would know that.

But coming in from virtual on the internet, you may not know everything, but I think that the raw da doesn't lie. And if you see, you know, 40 sales in the last, you know, couple months in an area that are all cash, you can pretty much bet that that's a hot investor area and somewhere that you should be looking. Yeah, no, that makes sense. So you mentioned virtual, and I guess that's where the term like virtual wholesaling comes from. So I guess why don't we touch on that a little bit more, since you have more experience with that than I think most of our guests who have been here. Sure.

So first of all, maybe just give a real broad definition. What is virtual wholesaling? It would be wholesaling in an area that's different from where you live, from where you normally work. If I work, Denver, virtual wholesaling would be properties in Phoenix or Dallas or Fairfax, Virginia, as Josh said, somewhere other than where I live and work. Yeah. I've often thought about doing some virtual wholesaling myself because my area is very small. I don't live in a large metropolitan area. And so I kind of feel like wholesaling, like I think it would work but on a very small scale.

So if I wanted to take it up a notch, I could go look in Seattle or Tacoma or Denver or whatever. No, no, no, no, no, you're not allowed to Denver. And just it's kind of your own fault. I mean, you live in a town with like six people. There are 3,000 in my town, I'll have you know. Since you have like 3,05 cats, then it outnumbers the population. I probably do have 3,000 cats that roam through my yard every day. Wow, I get made fun of for my cats, even by our guests now.

This is awesome. But I know Anson has cats. I know that he's a cat guy as well. I wouldn't say a cat guy. I possess cats. Crazy cat guy. There you go. That's it. That's it. Can we get back to the show, guys?

Yes, absolutely. When I realized that I had a wholesale deal in Aurora, which is the same city I live in, and I didn't even get in my car to go see it before I sold it. I pretty much realized it was one of those aha moments where I figured, you know what, if I can do this and it's 15 minutes away, I can do this pretty much anywhere. Now, obviously, I know my area a little bit better, but I've gotten it to work in Kansas City, Arizona, Georgia, a couple there. So it can work anywhere as long as you have. For me, MLS access is the only way to go.

I couldn't imagine trying to do it off of Zillow or Redfin or anything else. So what about those people who don't have MLS access? I mean, do you have any tips for those guys? I feel very bad for them. No. I think that there's, you know, there's definite ways to get access. I can't rely on data from those other sites that might be missing a lot of things. I would say that you can baseline some things off of Zillow or Redfin. I think that you had a guest just recently, maybe two episodes ago, that uses Zillow for their iPhone, something like that. To me, that would be,

data that I couldn't 100% trust honestly. But there are ways that somebody could get MLS access, whether it's partnering up with an agent, becoming an unlicensed assistant to an agent, basically networking and showing value to those agents in return for something that I think is priceless, which is direct MLS access. There you go. All right. Okay. Well, you know, I don't have direct access to the MLS, but, you know, I don't have direct access to the MLS,

but my agent is only a text away. And so, I mean, that's the idea. Like, if you can get a good relationship with an agent, like, I text him probably like 10 times a day when I'm like, you know, in hunting mode. So that's a suggestion for people too that don't have it. Just, I don't know, bother your agent a whole lot. Yeah, absolutely. I think that that can work.

I've never found an agent that's reliable enough to do that for me. But if you have that guy, then that's just as good, I think. Well, hopefully we can teach some more agents that way because this is a perfect transition. Because a couple weeks ago, I wrote a post called the ultimate guide. Well, the real estate agent's ultimate guide to working with investors. And it's like the longest blog posts I've ever written. I mean, by far, like I think it was 9,000 words or something like that. It was.

Yeah. I mean, epic post. I thought it was pretty good. Anyway, the whole thing is listen to real estate agents. This is exactly what I wish every real estate agent knew about how quirky and weird we investors are. I think we all kind of have weird. You know, we're different from the normal homebuyers, right? Absolutely.

Yeah, I made this guide. Hopefully if there's any agents listening and with, you know, 12,000 some people listening to this show right now, hopefully a good chunk of them are agents. So, yeah, go check it out. It's just biggerpockets.com slash agent. You can get there. And yeah, check it out. I'll have to read it. You will have to read it.

Yeah, you should. I will. I will. But anyway, so you were transitioning to the agent thing, but I wanted to go back for just a second before you completed your transition there, Brandon, and talk about the neighborhoods that Anson's looking at and also the properties that he's looking at. How does he find out, you know, how does he see them? How does he, you know, is he just relying on pictures on the MLS? And, and again, you know, in terms of neighborhood, is it really just, you know, hey, let's find a neighborhood where we can find, you know, tons of cash sales.

It's, yeah, it's mainly looking for, you know, hot activity, obviously. In order to get pictures or in order to get an idea of what you're getting into, my favorite way, especially virtually, I'm not licensed in that state. that I'm working in most likely. And so calling up the listing agent direct and having them write up your offer goes a long way. But you can also utilize, you know, pictures only tell you so much.

But I've had good luck with finding field vendors who do this kind of work for REO agents who just go take a crazy amount of pictures, crazy amount of detail in the reports, you know, pay them 20, 30 bucks. to kind of go vet a property, make sure that I'm not getting into anything crazy, and kind of go from there. Gotcha. Gotcha. And do you care if the neighborhood is, you know, a, you know, blue collar, white collar, you know, more dangerous neighborhood? I mean, does it matter? I wouldn't go anywhere, you know, crazy dangerous. Usually they're blue collar neighborhoods. They're either first-time homebuyer neighborhoods or, you know,

maybe the next move-up neighborhood. I haven't gotten in anything that's white-collar, you know, $500,000 stuff. Most of it is in the hundreds somewhere, if not, you know, buy in the 80s and can resell for 160, something like that. Nothing too much above that, maybe too much about 200.

Gotcha. Gotcha. And are these bank repos or are these motivated sellers or what? A good portion are REOs. Some are estates, and lately a lot of them are short sales, even though the market's kind of ticking up and kind of getting those underwater people get their heads above water. But a lot of them are short sales, which are one of my favorite things, mainly because I view it as a time machine. It's called the short sale time machine. But it's basically, you know, once you lock it up and then whenever it gets negotiated out the other. side, the market's changed. And even lately, you know, things that we locked up in October of last

year are coming through finally and they're coming through at October 2012 prices. And here we are with, you know, 2% appreciation per month, which doesn't sound crazy, but it's a really nice little time capsule where it comes out the other side at a better value. That's a good idea. It could go the other way, you know, if the market was tanking. Yeah. But then you then you still have the option to walk away, thankfully, but we're going to keep the 2012 prices. Nice. So using the short sale time machine method in the hot market is kind of a hot little tip there, I think. It is, yeah, and it's patented. No, I'm just kidding. $997. I'll tell you full details on what you need to do.

What was that website? It's phil Josh's pockets.com. No, that's awesome. I'd never heard anybody say that before. so you're kind of blown my mind right now, Anson, but that's cool. Yeah, it totally reminds me of like the options, right, in stock trading. I mean, that's the option idea. But anyway, so how do you get around if you're wholesaling these and they are bank repos or short sales? I thought, you know, people say you can't wholesale a bank repo.

How are you getting around that? Oh, you absolutely can. Some of them will tack on a deed restriction, which means they try to tell you that you can't sell it within three months for a certain price. This is mainly a Fannie Mae thing. But, you know, a lot of times, you know, that's 120% of what you bought it for. And so a lot of times I'm not a greedy wholesaler. I will just take, you know, five to seven to 10 grand. I'm not looking for the home runs all the time. But a lot of times you can just skate under the radar of those deed restrictions by just having your exit sale price is lower

than, you know, obviously what that deed restriction is. Or there's land contracts and LLC sales and all kinds of ways to kind of do alternate closings for the wholesale deal. Okay. Are you doing double closings? I mainly am. I will do LLC transfers with people who I know and trust and deal with on a regular basis. Let's talk about that then, Rook. What is an LLC transfer? LLC transfer is I get a contract or I get a property under contract with my LLC and it'll likely be a brand new LLC that I set up. Get it under contract. I find a buyer and instead of doing a double close where I go and close it and then I close with my buyer, I will assign, I'll basically sign over the LLC to that buyer in exchange for, you know, an LLC transfer fee, something, you know, you can call it, whatever. you want, but it's basically you're selling the business to somebody else with the intention

that you have a property under contract with that business. And so on the day of closing, they walk in and they are, for all intents and purpose is the owner of that LLC at that point. And they just walk in and close it. And you walk away with your fee, and they walk away with the property. And how are you funding the deal? Because obviously you need to fund the deal up front in order to make the initial acquisition. Well, this all happens while the property is still under contract.

So it's a literal zero money out of pocket type deal. Okay, so you're doing this prior to close. Yes, prior to close, yes. Got it. So they're the ones who actually sign the closing docs. Because they're just transferring over whoever's in charge of the LLC, correct? So the new person who's in charge of the LLC just signs the closing docs. That's correct.

Yeah, at that point, they are the managing member of the LLC, and I've hopped off the LLC with my transfer check in hand. And now they're the owner. So they walk in and they close it at title. Nice. Wow, that's cool. You said that you only do that with people you trust. Is there a reason for that?

Well, there's, first of all, it's kind of hard to explain people who haven't done it before. I haven't got around that hurdle. And nor it's kind of a headache. It's easier to double close. People who you trust, you know, like a lot of other whole stuff. sailors have said on your show that my list might be a couple hundred people, but I really only deal with three to five people. And those three to five, I'll do LLC's transfers all day long with. And then the rest, you know, I might have to do a few deals with them before I can fully

trust them to do that kind of deal. Yeah. Now, for those who didn't, who haven't listened to the, you know, our podcast episode with Sharon Bornholz or Jerry Puckett, can you explain real quick what a double closing is? Absolutely. So I'm the buyer of, let's just say it's an REO. I go in and, well, I'll get it under contract. I'll find somebody to sell it to another investor. So I'll go in and I'll close it for, let's say, $100,000.

And then the same day, I will close it with the investor that I have under contract for 110, let's just say, round numbers. And so there'll be two closings on one day. And I'll walk away with the difference between the two. And the title company just takes care of that whole thing, right? They do, yes. That's cool. And do you have any trouble finding title companies that will do that?

I know that's a common question in the forums all the time. It's how do I find a double-closing, friendly title company? Any tips? You know, and I see that question all the time, and I honestly, in anywhere that I've worked, I've never found one that won't do it. It's a very common transaction. And unless you're using, unless your investor buyer is using like a conventional loan or something that throws a wrench in the works, if it's all cash, I haven't found a title company that won't do it, honestly. That's cool.

Just got to ask for it, I guess. Yeah, you just got to ask, just say, hey, do you do same day closings or double closings? And, you know, many times it's a yes. Many times you can get just a hold open fee on your title and save some money when you're transferring title. Ah, there's a nice tip. Yeah, I always ask for the hold open. And this might be just a Colorado, Arizona type thing, West Coast thing. We don't deal with real estate attorneys or anything.

But yeah, hold open is you basically just pay the difference between title insurance. If you bought for 100 and you sold for 110, you know, the title insurance on the first transaction would be, let's say $1,000. But then on the second side, you're only paying for $10,000 of title insurance and not $110,000 worth of title insurance. So the hold open is really nice to save money, especially when you're flipping or wholesaling. And you save money on that second sale, whether you're selling to another investor or to an FHA buyer who's buying your rehab house. Okay. That's awesome.

Okay. Very cool. Yeah, yeah. Hey, so how are you finding the cash buyers in these areas? So you've got your, you know, you've got your, you go, you find the deals. Where do you find the buyers? I've been finding them mainly through. I will find the cash buyers in, in that neighborhood.

And I'll start there. So I've had good luck with, you know, if I have a three two in a certain area, I'll go find other guys who have closed three twos in that area. And I'll, you know, I'll hunt them down through tax records. I will cold call them. I haven't really done the mailing thing yet. That's kind of a last option for me. I'll cold call them.

I'll say, hey, I see you bought 1, 2, 3 Main Street. I have 1,2, 6 Main Street for 5,000 less than you bought yours for. Do you have any interest? And a lot of times these guys who already have a rehab going in that neighborhood will jump on it because they can save some costs on rehabbing two houses right next to each other or down the street from each other. And that's my main way of finding kind of those off, you know, virtual. type wholesale deals when it comes to local Denver stuff.

Like I said, I have three to five main guys and I don't really need anything else. That's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. So, Anson, if you have MLS access, are you saying, because I've never had it, are you saying you can look up, you know, who the cash buyers are that bought a three, two in that neighborhood? I mean, is that just as simple as plugging in some numbers? It really is.

instead of searching for active sales, you'd be searching for sold properties within a certain time frame, and then you can even narrow it down to bedroom bathroom, you can narrow it down to square footage. I mean, pretty much, you know, only two stories in that subdivision that have sold, and it'll pull them all up,

and there's a tax record option on all the MLSs that I've seen, and it shows you, you know, sometimes they don't update right away. They don't update for a couple months, but generally it's the best resource to find those, you know, in an easy to read kind of manner. It's all right there on your screen, a nice grid of, you know, maybe 30 homes in your area. And then you know what you're working with at that point. That's cool.

I'm going to call my agent right after we get off this call, and I'm going to make him look that all up for me. No, and that's great. And I've done it for other investors here in town, which they just say, hey, can I see all the cash sales in this area? in, it's literally a 30-second thing and then an email. And that's it for me anyways. So, yeah, that's great. That's awesome. For decades, real estate has been a cornerstone of the world's largest portfolios. But it's also historically been sort of complex, time-consuming, and expensive. But imagine if real estate investing was suddenly easy, all the benefits of owning real, tangible assets without the complexity and expense. That's the power of the Fundrise

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Well, you know, I think we were going to talk about agents, and then we jump back to virtual wholesaling. So I think maybe we should jump back to working with agents a little bit, and we'll see where the road takes us. And yes, by the way, for everyone listening, we do have a map at how we're going to do these calls, and we know where we're going. But, you know, when things get interesting, we just go off on tangents. That's the real life, and that's what we do. So, okay, so you were an agent. Let's talk about that. Did you decide to get your license because you knew you were going to get into real estate investing? Or did you get your license because you wanted to be a salesperson in the real estate space?

I've always, I got my license about two years after, maybe three years after I read that rich, rich dad, poor dad the first time. Always with the intent of using it for investing. I did try the residential real estate thing for about eight months and kind of in a crisis of, you know, hey, I have it. I might as well use it to sell to, you know, friends and family and strangers and found out very quickly that even doing it on the side really wasn't for me. It was, you know, 10 lists, 10 houses on a Saturday with people who are nitpicking over wallpaper just wasn't for me. And so I decided to, you know, just go ahead and, you know, just go ahead and do purely investing at that point and always with the intention of using it for investing.

Gotcha. Yeah, I was an agent for a while in SoCal and I had a similar feeling. It just didn't work and too much battling between potential clients. Although I worked with an investor and that was fantastic. Being an agent who actually worked with an investor who knew what he wanted and knew what he was doing was probably the most fun part of my job. Nice. So, Anson, this is coming from perspective because I just wrote this guy that we talked about earlier.

What do you think, you know, as an agent, as somebody who's been an agent and worked with investors, what makes you happy or annoyed to work with an investor? It makes me happy when they know what they're looking for. They know their exact areas and their exact formulas of what they want to purchase. and they can execute that quickly. So if I do bring them a house that I can get an immediate answer because we work kind of in an immediate type market. I mean, even when the market's bad, jumping on deals,

you have to be the first one there or have the best offer. And so going to the annoying side, it's very annoying when guys don't have their stuff together or they're very slow to respond. I like working with pros who do, you know, they know their rehab numbers. They might need to do a drive-by or just a really quick walk-through. You know, they don't need to get 10 investor or 10 contractor bids. In order to make a decision, obviously everyone has to start somewhere.

But, you know, those guys who can execute quickly and then don't make me run around for no money. And, you know, hey, can you comp these 10 properties? and they're not planning on closing on anything with me. And for an agent, that's very frustrating and probably why I don't work with as many investors or almost any anymore is just because most of the guys have their group of agents that they do work with.

I don't need to work with investors to make a living. But a lot of new guys will come up and ask me, hey, can you do these 100 things? And I know at the end of the day that they're not going to pull the trigger. and that's for an agent can be very frustrating. So what can a new investor do? You know, hey, I'm brand new.

I'm fresh. I've done my studying. I know how to analyze properties and I want to start looking. How do I get started approaching an agent? What do I need to say to them? What do I need to bring to the picture here to not piss off every agent in town? I mean, that's a great question. and one that I think about pretty often, especially when I'm fielding, you know, newer guys who are looking for that kind of help.

And really, you know, knowing exactly what you're going after helps. And then, like I said, time is of the essence. And I could show, you know, I can hand you five deals. And if it takes you a week to get back to me on them, they'll all be gone and you'll have wasted your time and mine. And so I would say, you know, obviously have your stuff together, have your money lined up, have your contractor lined up to get in there, you know, pretty immediately. Because when you are ready to pull the trigger, you have to do it pretty quickly. So, and I know that that's a lot of steps for a new guy, especially financing and contractor

and having everything lined up to go. But if you're talking about MLS deals, you're usually talking about things that we need a decision on, you know, within 24 hours or less. All, you know, pretty much any offers that I blast out that are new properties on the market are within, you know, an hour or two on market. And so while that's completely unrealistic for a lot of new guys, you definitely have to have your stuff ready because if you bail out on because you didn't have your financing ready or if you bail out because, you know, your three contractors and two didn't show up,

you know, it's like you're going to piss off agents pretty quickly. Gotcha. That's great. That's great. Hey, really quick, for everybody listening, this is the BiggerPockets podcast show 34. And if you want to keep up with the show notes, go to biggerpockets.com slash show 34. And of course, there you can ask Anson any questions you have. He'll be there to answer them for you. So definitely be sure to check out the show notes. And of course, we'll point to any resources on the show. Anton, what about, you had talked about doing those BPO. for anyone who's potentially interested in doing that, how does one do that? Because it does seem like a great opportunity to really start learning how to analyze potential properties, how to get a feel for a market. It really is. And it's more of a, you know, I was working when I started in an assistant type scenario where I was assisting an agent and then I got dumped with a bunch of BPO's and learn how to do short sales and stuff. stuff, kind of with those crap jobs type thing. But being an assistant for an agent isn't

the end of the world. You actually get paid for learning a lot of this stuff. And I've never shied away from that. I think it's a great experience. You can do that. If you're already an agent, you can try to find REO servicers who are giving out BPOs in your area, whether it's Bank of America or Wells Fargo or any of those companies that do those fee, they call them, fee BPO's so for money, usually for $50 to $100,000, you could do this BPO. And so you're getting paid to kind of learn valuation. And over the course of doing a few hundred of them, you will first of all, you'll hate your life, but B, you'll be glad that you did it because you'll know areas and you'll be

able to just take an MLS system and use it for your own purposes. I mean, you can just look, you know exactly what you're looking for and values. comes so much easier. All right. Awesome. Yeah. And we've actually got a bunch of links on our resource page at Biggerpockets.com slash REI that point to resources like Oreo banks and things like that.

We've got like the original Oreo bank list that's got all that stuff. So you can go on there and do some research and reach out to these guys if you want to do that. Let's jump back one more time, jumping around, to the topic of flipping. Because you had said that you had started out by flipping and then mainly went to wholesaling. Why did you do that? Well, it was a handful of deals into it. And I had a great GC general contractor, or so I thought. He did an amazing job for three properties, and then moving.

Moving on to the fourth, he decided that, and it was a completely legitimate company. I mean, they had storefronts and we're doing a lot of commercial jobs for McDonald's and, you know, these big, big buildouts. And so you couldn't get more legit on paper than this guy. And I get a call from one of my friends on New Year's Day and said, hey, if you have any materials at this guy's warehouse, you better go get them because, you know, the feds are going to come in. and I think they seized them on a tax thing.

They weren't paying their taxes. And that guy ended up walking away, going to California with probably about 20 investors' money. Thankfully, that job of mine was pretty close to being done. It was about 90% done. And so I did have to go in and clean up and got a lot of threats for liens on my own house because he didn't pay my guys and had to go. going with my own money and fix these deals. And of course, it was all money that was lent. So my private money guy was wondering what the heck was going on. But, you know, it wasn't just me

who got burned. It was, you know, me and about five other guys that I personally know and then easily, you know, 10 or 15 other guys in town. So, I mean, it was a big operation. It shut down overnight. And so at the same time, I had deals that I wasn't interested in flipping. And so I was wholesaling them. So I was thinking to myself, this was easier money with a lot less risk. And I wasn't really ready to date any more general contractors. I had my heartbroken once. And I wasn't ready to get back out there, so to speak. But it was, you know, it's one of those things. I mean, you get burnt and you, for a while, I mean, you're just hesitant to jump back in. Yeah. Yeah. Now, did they ever end up busting this guy? Do you go to jail?

No, he's still in California. And I think that there might be a couple guys who are looking to get in on a class action suit or something. But at the end of the day, I'm the bone breakers looking for him somewhere. Yeah, right. Yeah, I hired him. And Brandon, you're ready to go down to California? I'm ready. Let's go. he's the boat breaker. Nice, nice. Well, I tell you what, I had somewhat of a similar experience with a property manager, actually. And what they had done was they, the story is that they didn't love all the clients that they were working with and they wanted a way out. So essentially, they shut down their business and they all opened up a new business and a new name and took on all the clients that they wanted.

Except here's the thing. the clients that they didn't necessarily want, they held on to their security deposits and rents and all sorts of stuff. So it was crazy, shady. I got ripped off until I started blogging about it and writing about it and pressured them to pay me back. And the power of bigger pockets came through on that case, which was great.

But yeah, there's a lot of shady people out there. And unfortunately, there's not a lot you can do. to kind of protect yourself against these types of crazy things happening. You can protect yourself against a lot of stuff, but sometimes bad things happen, and there's just not a lot you can do. Absolutely, yeah. You can have the best contract in the world with your contractor, but if they decide to walk, your only recourse is court,

and even then you're just going to end up settling with their insurance company for pennies on the dollar of what they owe you. And I've seen that happen just recently. with a friend of mine. So it's hard to find the right guy. And even when you find the right guy, he might not be the right guy. So it's, you just got to do your, you got to do your due diligence and do your best. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. So what are you going to do differently? You said you want to get back into flipping. Yeah. It's, it's really what I love most about real estate, taking an old, you know, a piece of junk and turning it to something really nice. And this time, you know, I was handing,

I was just handing draws from my private money lender, just handing draws over to my GC, and he was handling everything. And at the end, or handling everything, so I thought. But this time around, I'm kind of mentoring with a friend of mine who's teaching me how he's doing business. And I never think that you're done learning. I'm always happy just to jump in with somebody who I respect

and they're doing a great job, kind of doing what I want to do and learning from them any way that I can. And so I'm kind of relearning the whole process of, you know, materials, doing all the materials ordering myself, doing the Gs, or doing kind of being a GC where you're handling all the subs, you're doing payroll, you know, you're basically in charge, you have much more control over the process. And so that's what I'm in the process of right now is kind of resetting my brain on how I'll be, running the business moving forward and learning hands-on from another investor on on what to do and what not to do when you're running that kind of flip business. So it's been invaluable.

You're never done learning. And so I've kind of jumped back into the student thing and never ashamed to say that I'm learning all over again. So. Well, and I think that's key too is like, that you say you're never done learning. And that's one of my favorite things about bigger pockets, really is there's always somebody smarter than you at pretty much anything on bigger pockets. Like no matter what you want to learn about, there's somebody who's experienced it and been through more than you have. So if I could just encourage everyone on that note to jump in. And even if you're a pro, I mean, jump in and you could probably learn from other people,

things that you don't know. So yeah, I think that's huge. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Also then, I might as well throw in here. You talked about, you know, estimating the costs and, you know, planning the budget and all that good stuff with the flips. So I might as well mention to people that if anybody out there is working on the same thing, you should definitely check out our house flipping calculator.

It's at biggerpock.com slash kelk. And you can kind of play around with the numbers and see what your potential profit's going to be. So that is my... Yeah, I've played around with it as the wholesaler and a flipper. And it does great work. I mean, I've used it on presentation style things lately. So yeah, so you need a great job on that. And I would, and I hate to be, you know, Mr. Plug guy, but I think Jay Scott's books are great. Ever, ever since I met him and I want to be him when I grow up, I guess. Is what I'm, is what I'm trying to say. No, I think he does, he's done a great job with turning flipping into, you know, a scalable business. And that is the, that's the goal. I mean, onesie and twosies are great. But if you want to

launch into a business, I think that his books on, you know, both S. the costs and his main book are great at laying out a foundation of how to do that. And that's not, don't, don't have to reinvent the wheel. You just have to, you know, find someone who's doing what you're doing and model. Right on. And those you can find at biggerpockets.com slash flipping book. We've got those available for sale. All right. And Anson did not get paid to by any means whatsoever. Dang it. All right. Well, listen. So, so last question before we move on to the next section of the interview here. And that's mistakes. I know early on you I talked about, oh, and I've got stories. And clearly you do because the contractor

story was a whopper. What other stories, you know, mistakes have you made or any just like kind of crazy stuff that you've been through as you've gone through your investing career? I've done the classic wholesaler mistake when I was newbie, and I didn't understand rehab costs all that well. And I've shot out deals where there was just dead silence on the other end. And when I called for some feedback from a friend, and they were just like, man, you're way off. And the more that you do this, the more people won't take you seriously. And so, and I think everybody does that at one. point is just kind of learning the business. But I then took very seriously that ARV repair value

and obviously you have to be buying a deal for someone else to buy it. But if you're off on your other numbers, you know, the next subsequent deals that you send out will just be, they'll just fall on deaf ears because people won't take you seriously anymore. And, you know, I've made those mistakes. I'll own up to them and say that I, you know, from then on, I paid very, very close attention to exactly what I was sending out so that I'm sending out the best product, you know, and build a reputation on that, hopefully. So don't market and pitch bad deals. Exactly, yeah. There you go. Exactly. Yep. Right on. And I know you guys talk about that a lot. And it's very accurate. It's, you know, it can destroy your reputation over the course of a few

months if you just send out those deals all the time. So yeah, yeah, right on. Cool. All right, Well, listen, let's jump into our fire. Fire. That was scary, Brandon. And Anson, thanks for participating. I can't do the falsetto, you know, quick tips that you guys do. But I'll lend to the growly voice. That's for sure.

I hope that people in their cars while they're listening to this podcast, I hope they do it out loud with us. That would be really funny. And if you do, you should like make a vine and send it to me on Twitter or something because that'd be fun. Suddenly, the bigger pocket, quick tip and fire rounds are going to be coming in from everywhere. In fact, you know what? Here's the challenge.

If you want to do it on your own, do it. And we'll sample your recording and we'll add it to a show if it's good. So if you want to participate, jump in and help us out. That's a good idea. All right. First question of the fire round. And again, these all come from the Bigger Pockets forums. So if you have a question, jump in the forums.

You'll get probably lots and lots of answers from people. and you might get chosen your question to be on the podcast. So here we go. Number one, do you have any tips for finding good deals on Craigslist? I'd say volume is your key. I've only done a certain amount of it, but the more consistent you are with volume and then follow up with people who do respond,

the better off you are. What do you mean by volume? Well, it'd be like emailing pretty much everybody that you can, that meets your criteria. So if you're looking for landlords who are wanting to get out, email pretty much everybody or call pretty much everybody that you can

that fits your criteria. Otherwise, it's a numbers game like direct mail. Gotcha. Right on. All right. Next question. Would you invest in a property with a well or septic tank versus, say, city water?

I don't have much experience in that, but as long as the septic reports come back and the well reports come back, okay, I think that you're okay. But then again, pretty much everything's on City Water where I normally invest. Gotcha. All right. How do you show someone who is

eternally pessimistic, the advantages of investing in real estate? This is a personal question from Brandon. No, I saw this in the forums. I love this question. His cats are pessimistic. Well, Brandon. This is what I do, Brandon. I would change. No, I would

I would definitely, pretty much it's a numbers. It's a numbers game. If you can show somebody's solid numbers of why it makes sense to buy rentals and pay them off or buy rentals and have your tenants pay them off and show them over the course of time, I don't think that numbers really lie. And if they're arguing against logic and real hard numbers, then it might not be someone that you can convert. But if you can show somebody a 20, 30 year chart of, hey, if I buy this many rentals for this long, then we'll see this kind of return. And then at the end, we'll see this much cash flow. And if somebody's still pessimistic about money, then I don't know, I guess I can't help them. Logic prevails. Logic prevails. That's right. Right on. Right on. All right. So what's the

smartest way to invest in real estate if you do have money? If you do have money, I would say, if I came into 100 grand overnight, I would definitely leverage that and buy. as many buy in holes as I could with that money. So instead of buying two free and clear properties, I might try to buy 10 leverage properties. That would be my personal way to do it. But yeah, it just makes sense to me that if a renter is paying your debt service, then you're pretty much moving ahead in the game.

Yep. Cool. What about some more abnormal types of properties, a little unconventional like town? Abnormal? Like town homes or duplexes, do you wholesale anything like that? Town homes, yes. They're usually, you know, they're deeded on their own.

And usually, depending on the area, they can go pretty fast or pretty good to, you know, a buy and hold type guy who doesn't want a lot of maintenance on the exterior. They'd rather just pay the HOA or whatever. But condos, I kind of shy away from the HOA on buildings can, if, you know, if that number jumps too high, it can just be, just double your costs. And so I stay away from those. And usually rural, I stay away from rural properties only because there's just not as many buyers looking for those as I'd like. I'm looking for the hotter areas.

Preach it. Right on. Right on. Preach it, bro. Don't buy up in 3,000 population, Brandenville. That's only in my town. I live outside of a larger town. A larger town that has

3,500 people. It's like 35,000. Josh. To all the Aberdeen listeners, we respect you. You have a big town. You should feel good about it. You guys have a Starbucks because I know

Brandon was pretty much always there. Two Starbucks. Oh, it's a two Starbucks town. Two Starbucks town. One traffic light and two Starbucks. What else do you need? What else do you need? All right. So, I'm bashing on Detroit and now suddenly Aberdeen.

Geez. Oh, my God. I'm going to get hated. Cape mail from everywhere. Yes, yes. This is a great place of grunge, Aberdeen. Is it really? Nirvana. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Last question. Anson, not for Brandon. Anson, bookkeeping. What do you use? What tools? Do you use like QuickBooks or how do you manage your bookkeeping? I manage it with by giving everything to my wife who was a bookkeeper for a long time and before she stayed at home with our son. And she uses QuickBooks. But I've done a better job lately of kind of plugging everything into Excel, keeping receipts, and then that way it's a lot easier for my bookkeeper than to do their job is if I have everything organized.

I don't have time to do it all myself. But QuickBooks seems to be the standard of what everyone uses. Fantastic. That's great. Cool. All right. Well, in closing up here, why don't we hit up this famous four? All right.

The first question of the famous four is, what is your favorite real estate book? Well, rich dad, poor dad was a good foundation, but not much meat in that book. I think that Millionaire Real Estate Investor by Gary Keller was probably the one that turned me around of how the game is run and then planning with the end in mind. So you know how many deals you need to get how much money you want, those kind of things. That's a great book. And that's a great tip, by the way, as well, the planning with the end in mind and starting from your final numbers and working backwards. Yeah, absolutely. And both those books and a whole lot of other ones are on our list, the bigger pockets list of the 20 best real estate books ever.

And we'll link to that in the show notes. But anyway. Check them out. All right. Favorite business book? I'm going to be kind of a Brandon guy and say that the four-hour work week changed my mindset. It changed my mindset. But I don't know.

What is what the wrong with all you guys? I haven't read the book, admittedly. But my God, it's like a cult of four-hour work week. And then this one's for Josh. Because I can never have like one favorite. But Crush It by Gary Vaynerchuk. Oh my God. It's Crush it.

Yes. Yes. Crush it. Crush it now. Crush it! Crush it! Crush it! Wow.

He's excited. That was my Gary impression. That is how he talks. Yeah. Scary guy. Yeah. Anyway, I like that book. I crush it was awesome.

I recommend that too to everyone. I haven't read that either, but, you know, the enthusiasm exudes from it. Yes. You should read that one, Josh. That one is like you, like to a T. I think it is. Yeah. It's the opposite of the four-hour work week.

It's like the 190-hour work week. Yeah, he's insane. Anyway, we'll link to that in the show notes also. Everyone should read it. Hobbies. Hobbies, hanging out with my family. We take our son on adventures, and we've been hiking a lot lately. We did our first 14er, like three weeks ago.

And then also, I play guitar and bass, most recently in a band that travels for conferences and conventions and stuff like that. Nice. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. Rock band, baby, rock band. That's right. And I've seen Anson's pictures in the mountains. They're awesome. He's definitely making me a little bit envious of his adventures up there.

So, you know, if you're friends with Anson, check out his Facebook pictures. They're awesome. That's right. Yes, yes. All right. Last question. And since Brandon always asks this, I'm going to see if I can get it right. But what sets apart those people?

who really excel and exceed and, you know, thrive in the field of, say, wholesaling, flipping versus those who ultimately end up disappointing themselves and their wives and failing miserable. I'm just kidding. You know, everybody tries things, and it's not, some things aren't for everyone. No, but truthfully, what does set apart those guys who really kick backside versus those we may not do as well. You know, it's not a new answer for your podcast, but consistency. I'm going to probably try to frame it in a different way. One of my early mentors said, you're either consistent or you're non-existent. And that's so true for what you're trying to do in this business.

If you're like an MLS guy, you need to be making offers every day. If you're a direct marketing guy, you need to be consistently hitting your target market. And it doesn't matter what your strategy is. There's 10,000 ways to skin a cat in this in real estate. But if you're consistently pursuing a worthwhile strategy, you will do a thousand times better than somebody who's scattered or who is a start, stop kind of guy. If you're just consistently hammering it, you will do okay. You'll be just fine. Nice. Two tweetable topics in one statement.

It was. I was going to say, I expect every single person who's listening to this to go to the show notes and click the little tweet button next to that quote and go tweet it or share it on your Facebook wall. because that was good. All right, Anson, great answers, great insight, lots of really great tips along the way. We definitely appreciate you adding a little bit of quirky flavor to the quirky flavor that is already the Brandon and Josh, mayhem show of Bigger Pockets. You're very welcome. Thanks for having me, guys. I'm sorry that it's the end since you had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to get to me.

It's just the last show. This is it. Yeah, you thought that Will Bernard's was the last show, but this is it. 34 and done. Good job, guys. We'll keep going. We got lots lined up. You guys are doing great.

Thanks so much. Thank you. All right, guys, that was show 34 of the Bigger Pockets podcast with Anson Young. Definitely want to thank Anson for taking his time and joining us on the show here today. Lots of cool tips, lots of great feedback. Of course, always stuff that I know I learned. something every show. My mind has been blown.

Mind blown, which is great. Which is great. Yes, so thanks again to Anson for that. For those of you listening, again, you can definitely jump in and interact with Anson through his profile which is linked on the show notes or just ask him questions

about the show or anything else you want to in the show notes at bigopockets.com slash show 34. Otherwise, make sure you're following us on Twitter at BiggerPockets, Twitter.com slash Bigger Pockets, Facebook at Facebook.com slash Bigger Pockets. We're on

LinkedIn. We're on Gplus. We're on Pinterest. We're all over the place. So definitely make sure to follow us elsewhere. Hey, Josh. Share our articles. Can they follow us on MySpace? You know, MySpace is now owned partially by Justin Timberlake,

I believe. And I think he was trying to make it relevant again as a website. And if Justin Timberlake is listening to the show, we'd love to have them on. But, you know, my space is, I think is really all music focused once again. And yeah, I don't think so, man. We're not there. I don't want to listen now. I'm looking right at the other half of me.

Oh, sorry. It's a good song. Was that mirrors? Yeah. That was mirrors. That was pretty good. Yeah, you know, I'm pretty talented. JT. It's a hot jam. It's a hot jam.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. So, close up. Anyway, as I was saying, it's time to get out of here. You guys, thank you for listening. Make sure you rate and review us on iTunes. Check out the show on iTunes, and you rate and review us there.

And come back to Bigger Pockets and hang out with us. There's a lot of great stuff happening. We'll see you around the neighborhood at BiggerPockets.com. That said. I'm Josh Dorkin. signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small.

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