BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 348: Full-Time Job, Full-Time Mom, and Full-Time Wealth From Rentals with Ashley Kehr

Episode Date: September 19, 2019

Today’s guest is proof rental property investing can be fun, rewarding, and—with the right systems in place—totally doable… even with a job and a family. Ashley Kehr sits down with Brandon and David and shares some great advice for building a rental property portfolio without much hassle or headache! Ashley manages all her own rentals and discusses the top three apps she uses to do it with ease. She also shares how she structures her partnerships, how she pitches her deals, and how she’s finding deals in today’s hot market. Ashley gives great advice for what most newbies get wrong about investing, which apps she uses to find off-market property owner info, and how she uses her children to help her find potential deals! Plus, you won’t want to miss how Ashley helped her sister buy a duplex (and spend just $45 a month to live there), as well as how she bought a property no one else wanted, pulled $6,000 more out of it than she put in, and created a cash flow of almost $1,000 a month! Today’s show is fun, entertaining, and full of great advice for investors of all levels. Download this one today! In This Episode We Cover: 3 apps Ashley uses to remove herself from the business How she uses technology to systemize her rural business How she structured her first partnerships (with ease!) Where she's finding deals How she used her current job and boss to get into investing What newbies get wrong about the reality of investing How she uses apps to find off-market deals Using her children to find deals while driving in the car (a fun family game!) How she helped her sister buy a duplex at 20 years old How she bought a property for each of her kids How she set it up to be paid off and refi-ed by college How she uses a commercial line of credit to borrow money to buy new properties How she finds properties on the MLS Why she always tells everyone she buys rental properties What her favorite parts of the business are How she bought a property no one else wanted for $35K, pulled out $6K more than she put in, and cash flows almost $1K/month And SO much more! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Conference (Last Chance!) BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Webinar BiggerPockets Instagram BiggerPockets Twitter Profile BiggerPockets Pro Buildium AppFolio One Drive Google Drive Google Voice Everlance Landglide OnX Maps Zillow BiggerPockets Podcast 346: 34 Units & 6-Figure Wholesale Fees (at 20 Years Old!) with Josiah Pott BiggerPockets Podcast 234: Tenants, Evictions, & The Dark Side of No Money Down with Ryan Murdock Brandon's Instagram David's Instagram Check the full show notes here: http://biggerpockets.com/show348 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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property manager, hire one that manages your investment like an investment. This is the Bigger Pockets Podcast show 348. Yeah, so my own properties and the ones I have a partner's are completely separate from my job. So I actually have property management software that I use. And everything is remotely. I could be on a beach right now and manage my real estate. You're listening to Bigger Pockets BEO, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com.

Your home for real estate investing online. Hey, what's going on, everyone? This is Brandon Turner, host of the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, David Green. What's up, David Green? How you doing? Doing great. We had an awesome interview today with Ashley and this is what it's all about. Yeah, so good.

Yeah, Ashley is a real estate investor from the upstate New York area who's just absolutely crushing it in her business. Has a ton of great, great tips to talk about today. I mean, everything from like how she uses partners, including her very first deal, no money down with a partner using a strategy that I absolutely love. How she's like involving her kids, her young kids in her real estate business in a really phenomenal, like kind of a inspirational way. A very cool story there.

She talks about how she buys property using a commercial line of credit, which you'll love that, a very, very neat tactic and really just a lot of good stuff. I mean, like, she just tells this great story during the deal deep dive about how she pulled, she did like this bird deal and pulled out more money than she ever had into it. So it's like not just no money down, but better than no money down, which is super cool. So all of that and more today on the show. But before we get into that with Ashley Care, let's get to today's. Quick tip.

So while recording today's show with Ashley, I asked her actually on the show if she's going to be at the Bigger Pockets conference this year and she said yes. But you know who else is going to be at the conference, David? Who else is going to be at the conference? You are and I am and Josh Dorkin is and Scott Trenches and Jay Scott and all sorts of great people

from Bigger Pockets podcast world and just Bigger Pockets authors, people who are on the blog on the forum and a thousand others excited real estate investors. So everybody who's listening to this, is probably your very last chance to get tickets because it'll likely sell out like within like a couple days of this podcast airing because 250,000 people are going to hear this announcement right now.

Here's the deal. You can save 200 bucks on the conference to be able to come hang out with us if you use the code last chance 200. That's one word. Last chance 200 when you're checking out. Just go to bigger pockets conference.com. And it's October 6 through the 8th at the Opryland Resort in Nashville, Tennessee. and again, it's going to be amazing.

I credit a lot of my success in life is to conferences. You go there, it totally excites you, gets you motivated, gets you pumped up. You learn a ton. You meet potential partners, lenders, hard money lenders, funders, whatever. Really good stuff. So I don't know, I'm excited. You excited, David?

Yeah, I can't wait, man. I've had that one on my calendar for a long time. And like you said, most of the big changes in my life, the big jumps in my success came right after something like this. And you don't always know how it's going to affect you, but when you come home, you just feel different. You just feel like you just, you climb to the top of the mountain. You look down at what you want your life to be.

And now you're coming back down with clarity that you didn't have before. So it's going to be an incredible investment. You've got to be there. Plus, you get to hang out with Brandon and I and listen to how fun Brandon is in real life. That alone is worth the cost of admission. You mean me sitting in the corner, sulking and letting him, you know, trying not to be noticed. That's pretty much how I handle public appearances. It's great.

So if you want to see that, come to the conference again, coupon code was last chance 200. And let's get into today's show. So like I said, today's guest is Ashley Care. She is at Wealth from Rentals on Instagram. That's how actually I got to know Ashley from Instagram. And if you want to follow Bigger Pockets on Instagram, just follow at Bigger Pockets. You can also tag hashtag Bigger Pockets when you're posting on Instagram or on Twitter.

And we check that stuff. We like to see success stories. So next time you buy a property, you're at the title company, you're analyzing a deal. You upgrade to pro, a pro membership, whatever. Hashtag, BiggerPockets. You can also tag at David Green 24, tag at Beardy Brandon or at Bigger Pockets. And we like to jump into those things and have a kind of a take this from the podcast into the real world of Instagram.

Is Instagram in real world? I don't know. It's a world that spent a lot of time. I really try to answer every message that comes in on Instagram. When people take pictures of me, I try to share it on my story and kind of like spread the word because if you're wanting to learn about real estate investing, you should be following people that are doing it. A lot of the people that tag us are like like Ashley, she's a great follow. You want to see what she's doing. Yeah, follow attention. Yeah, she's

awesome. So all right, well, with that enough introduction, let's get to today's show with our guest Ashley Care. All right, Ashley, welcome to Bigger Pockets podcast. Good to have you here. Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Good, good. Yeah, this is another one of those match made on Instagram moments because I got to know you on Instagram, which is great. I was going to say I'm surprised you didn't say no she's a stalker like keep her no this is good I like I hear it was cool my Instagram is like you get to like see people like what they actually do like you know there's stories and all that so like I was like wow she's like a legit investor she's like crushing it so we're going to learn today about how you're

crushing it but before we get into crushed it Ashley let's go into getting started Ashley so how did you I mean how did you get your very first deal why did you decide real estate and What did your first investment look like? So when I graduated college, I got an accounting job at a CPA firm. No, I'm so sorry. I know I lasted six months and I quit. Okay. And I decided I was just going to be a stay-to-home mom.

And then my friend's dad actually needed someone part-time just to manage some apartment complexes. So I agreed to do it. And it was a little tiny room with boxes of papers. and a drawer full of keys. And he's like, here you go. Can you work with this? So it started with 40 units. And then now it's 80 units.

So I just looked at what he was doing. And he has a bunch of commercial properties too. And I just said, why can't I do that? So I found a partner who had money. And I said, you know, I've been doing this for a year for this big complex. I know what I'm doing and I can handle a duplex. So we looked at one duplex. and we bought it right away.

There was no other offers. It was in a really small town. And then from there, I just started growing and going out on my own. But that was how I got my start as I took a job where I was involved in the day to day and it really made me take action. I think if I didn't leave my accounting job and go to this,

I probably never would have gotten to real estate investing at all. That's such a good point. I think that getting started that way, I think a lot of people overlook that. The idea of like, why don't I get started with a job sort of situation rather than necessarily jumping right in? Because like sometimes that can be the first step, the baby step, the training wheels that somebody needs to be able to invest is just, hey, I'm working for somebody else.

I mean, I used to paint houses for Mike, my mentor, Kyle. And I would just paint houses for him for like 300 bucks. It was like, I was a cheapest house painter ever to live. But $300, whatever. I made, I would paint it in two days, make $150 a day. And it was awesome. And like that like got me comfortable with that. idea of owning rentals and more and more come to as I worked with him more, you know,

we still have a great relationship today. So you're a really good way to start. So, but I wanted more more about the partner thing. I mean, you just, you found a partner who had money. Like, how does that work? How do you just find a partner? Family, friends, like some guy on the side of the street with a sign. So it was actually the guy that hired me, his son. So I said, look what your dad is doing. Like, you know, you should do this too. And he's like, you're right. So I broke down the deal for him, explain how it would work and he put up the cash by the first property. So we formed an LLC together and then we purchased a property in cash and he held the mortgage. Well, a couple months later, we found another apartment we wanted to buy. So we went to the bank, put a mortgage on the first

property and took his cash back and he's held the mortgage on the second property. And that's still how it is today on those two properties. So but the biggest thing was pitching to him just like how this can work and showing him examples of like, look, this is, your dad is doing it. You can do it too. And I just showed him what kind of money he could make because he'd be, you know, building equity in the building. He'd be getting some of the cash flow and he was getting interest on the mortgage too. So it was actually a pretty lucrative deal for him.

And then I managed everything. He does nothing for it, which sounds like a bad thing, but he's the money guy and I take care of everything for him. I love, I love, love, love, love, love. Love that. And I talk about this on webinars a lot, the same topic. Like if, if you can bring some experience and you can bring some knowledge to the table, like you don't need to bring the money. Find somebody else who's out there who has the money and doesn't have the knowledge, the experience. They're not sitting in a commute right now, like a lot of people are listening to a bigger

pockets podcast episode. They're sitting in a commute right now, listen to 80s rock, right? So there's something different about the people who are, who have the knowledge and experience. And you, you leverage that. And I think people undervalue that. Here's something funny. I found that people often will say, like if I tell them that, that I do that because I used to do that all the time. That's how I got started as well in a lot of ways, right? I tell people, yeah, they didn't, they don't do anything. They just put in the money and we split it 50-50. And I get two completely opposite reactions, right?

Some people are like, well, why would they need you? They don't need you like that. You're taking advantage of them. Other people are like, they're taking advantage of you. Like, why would they need you? Why would they need you? Or why would you need them? Right?

Like, you're giving 50%. You're crazy. I'd give them 20%. But other people are like. why it's funny it's all perspective right it is yeah so that's and we've worked together for a while now so we've right now we have four properties together and one is a six unit and then we've also sold two that we had in our portfolio but i started with another partner too this one probably two years ago and he was just a friend and he had a couple of his own properties and we found this town that just the it was a renter's town people just couldn't afford the housing so we We bought a couple properties there and we did everything 50-50. So we split the money or and then when we refinanced, we both were on the mortgage. And we, he does the maintenance side of things.

And then I do the leasing and tenant relations, stuff like that. So this is that same partner. No, this is a different partner. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah. So this would be my second partner. Yeah. So I have two right now.

So again, you're showing that now that's a different way to use a partnership. I mean, this is great. Right. So some partners are money partners. and they put up all the money and don't do any work. So I have some partners like that too. And other times your partner is, hey, you're 50-50. Let's just divide the roles and divide the money.

And that's fine as well. So again, people, when they get that stuck moment of like, well, I don't have any money. I can't invest. Like, it's just, there's always a way to figure it out. There's always a way to find money too. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. So Ashley, let me jump in. I want to ask you, you said that you went to your boss's son and you said, hey, we should do this steal together. Tell us how you posed that proposal to them, what you said to help him see this is a good idea because a lot of newbies want to do the same thing, but they don't know how to have that conversation or what they should say to get somebody else involved in their deal. Okay. The first thing that I did, and I remember it actually pretty vividly, is I just put little like nuggets of information in his ear. I didn't overwhelm him with the numbers, anything like that. I just gave him

examples of people we knew, including his dad, of, you know, look at the success they've built. His uncle had done the same thing with real estate. So I just put little nuggets in his ear. And then when I actually found the property, I brought him the numbers and everything. And by then he had already had interest in real estate investing. And I had, you know, piqued that in him. So he looked at the numbers and he went with me to see the property. And he actually had a roommate at the time who was pretty handy. And his roommate was like, hey, I can help you guys even, you know, renovate a part of this and stuff like that.

So it was just kind of putting the bug in his ear and just building it up. And then just when I was ready to take action, just like, hey, look, here's this opportunity right now. And just I showed him what, you know, he would be making off interest just over 15 years and what the potential cash flow was. And then just the equity we would build in it. So you explained how the whole thing would work at a general level and let him kind of, let that sink in.

You didn't make a decision right then. Then when the opportunity came, it sounds like you kind of had the whole thing figured out already. He didn't have to do something he wasn't uncomfortable with. You said, here's what I need from you. Here's how the deal is going to look. Here's what we're going to do.

And really that made it very easy for him to say, okay, I'm on board. You made that easy for the person to partner with you, right? Yeah. One thing we did was start the LLC. And so we got life insurance policies on each other. So if something were to happen to him, I could use a life insurance policy to buy him out and vice versa.

So or buy his family out. I don't think anybody's ever given that tip on this show of 350 some episodes. I don't think anybody's ever given that tip. So it's so good. Yeah. Yeah, because I was married. It speaks to people's, oh, sorry. I was going to say it speaks to people's fear of losing money more than here's all the money you can make.

You came out and showed this person how they are protected before you said what you need from them. Yeah, we did an operating agreement and then the life insurance policies because I was married and he wasn't at the time. So if something happened to him, it would go to his family members and I didn't want to, you know, run these properties with, you know, his two siblings and his parents and he didn't want to run the properties at all. So if something happened to me, he'd rather just buy my family out and then just sell everything probably. So. And who did you use to help you structure that agreement? We used an attorney.

Okay. Did you just Google an attorney? It was the attorney that we did for the closing on the property that we were going to have. It was an attorney I had actually used before for when I built my own house and we've used her for various things. So she's just a small local attorney. And she actually gave me the draft that she uses for the operating agreement. And she let me go in and like make it specific to how I wanted it. and then she just like approved it, rewrite it and everything, but it saved a lot on legal costs of me actually filling in the information,

stuff like that. And approximately how much of that cost to have that drawn up? I think it was maybe $200 at most. There you go. What an awesome way to spend $200 to get your investor to feel comfortable partnering with you. All right, that's awesome. So let's fast forward to where you are today. Tell us what your portfolio looks like.

So right now I have 15 properties and it's 30 units. and then I currently have two properties under contract and six units. And one of those properties as a duplex, and I'm actually doing my first wholesale deal with it. So I'm really excited about that because I wanted to do that for a long time, but I just, I wasn't sure if I'd have buyers or anything like that. And the four unit that I wanted,

the guy would only sell it to me if I took the duplex too. So I negotiated a really great deal. And I found a buyer for it. I'm actually just assigned the contract over to him two weeks ago. Nice. Congratulations. That's very cool. It's actually,

so that's an interesting strategy that I don't know if people think about enough, but when you're negotiating on a property, oftentimes you can toss in another property as well that they have. And maybe you don't want that property, but toss it in and maybe you can wholesale that one out or sell it out. In fact, we're buying these eight mobile home parks right now. And like one of them,

like it's fine, but I didn't really want it. But the guy wouldn't sell without including that one. So we're like, all right, we'll take it. It's like an average deal, but we'll take it.

And then we'll just either, either we'll make it a decent enough deal or we'll just sell it off. And even if we sell it for what we have into it. Like, I mean, like, it doesn't really matter. It doesn't bring down the average. It just get it out. So yeah, that's very cool. So 15 properties, 30 units, 200 contract.

That's awesome. I mean, you're obviously crushing it. How do you manage all this right now? I mean, are you, you're still a property manager that deals with all the interactions of the tenants? Yeah. So my own properties and the ones I have a partners are completely separate from my job. So I actually have property management software that I use. I use Buildium.

Okay. Everything is remotely. I could be on a beach right now and manage my real estate. The only thing I can't do now or I can't do remotely is basically showings. But I have a bunch of people I can rely on to that to do that. That's cool. The day to day. Tell me about like, so I use Buildingium as well.

For those who don't know what Buildium is, and I swear this is not like an advertising for Billium or anything. Like what do you like about building? I'm like, what, what does it do if those never heard of property management software at all? Like what, what's the benefit of having good software? And again, there's Buildium, there's Appfolio. There's a lot of good ones out there. But I, yeah, both of us happen to use Buildium.

Yeah, I use AppFolio for my job and I love that too. But Buildio, it's so great because you can, you can keep all your bookkeeping in there. You can pay your bills out of there. And then each tenant has a portal. So in their tenant portal, they can submit their maintenance requests. They can pay rent online. and then they can communicate through Buildium if they want, but it's just really nice,

and you can upload all your documents. I upload all my bills that I pay to there, so if I ever need to go and look back at a bill, it's attached right there in my bookkeeping. There's also to list your property. They give you a website you can use and list your property on the website, and then they also can post it to Zillow, Realtor.com, all these different apartments.com,

all these different websites for you with just the click of a button instead of manually having to go and list them. Then people can contact you who are interested in your apartments and you can set up showings. And I think there's even a new feature now where you can set up the self-showing. So you select when you're available and then the people go online and they say,

oh, I can do 3 o'clock and they click it and they get a confirmation, like someone will meet you there at 3 p.m. and puts out a lot of the phone calls for leasing at least. Yeah, yeah. having that software, just something to be able to manage your life and you're like so many landlords that are still running most of their business in their head. And they're trying to like figure out how to do it. And they're just like, and I'm not saying you can't do it that way or on a bunch of spreadsheets.

But man, once you get into a good like good property management software, you're just like, where has this been all my life? Right. Even the leases now you can, everyone can sign electronically. So you just know if someone wants a apartment. Okay, I'm going to send you the lease and submit your whole deposit online and pay your security deposit. and it's really convenient. Yeah, that's awesome. You know, what's funny is how many people don't get into real estate investing

because of these notions they have that they're going to be taking phone calls at 2 a.m. And having to deal with stuff that when you talk to successful investors, this never comes out of their mouth. I never hear someone we interview say, oh, these toilets are always overflowing that make me hate my job. But that's always what people who don't get in think it's going to be like. And the reality is there's software that's designed to do the work that people used to have to do.

Those complaints may have been legit 45 years ago, but that's just not the case anymore. And you said the only thing that's not remote is showings, but really if you have someone they can do it, that's remote too. That's something Brandon and I spend a lot of time talking about is we want to grow, but we don't want to hate our lives. So how do you systemize what you're doing so that you keep growing?

And, you know, one of the things that I think I've done well with my agent business is systemizes. So when I'm in Hawaii with Brandon, I'm still putting deals together. I usually do a couple listing presentations. from Hawaii and come back to new listings that are going on the market and find new clients. And I know he's mentioned building them several times. So I know he really likes that app. And I would just highly encourage everyone that has any idea, I don't want to get into investing because it will be messy or time consuming. It won't be if you do the things that Ashley's doing.

Yeah. Just putting these systems in place has made my life so much easier. I don't think without like property management software, I'd be able to handle all. of this at all. It's just so convenient. And it's, it's really not that expensive either when you look into it. Yeah. So that's a really good point. Can you tell us what are some other apps or software that you use to make your life easier are? Yeah. Yeah. The first one would be the property management software. And then to communicate with my tenants, they can do it through the property management software, but I actually have a Google voice number. So I created a phone number that I just give out to my tenants and I have the app on my phone. So when they call that number, my phone will ring and it will

say that my company, Colton Farmhouse Development, someone is calling from that so I know that it's a tenant calling. And then I can text them through that and then I set up a voicemail specific to them. Like I'm not available right now, but please leave a message. If this is emergency maintenance request, please call this number. You can also contact me through your portal and just stuff like that. so it's not someone who's calling my personal cell phone, you know, getting, oh, all this long list of other places they can call or what to do. So that's been very convenient for me. Yeah, that's very cool. Yeah, but also with the property management software is I do everything paperless now.

So I even have a scanner app on my phone. So every time I get a bill in the mail, I scan it in and then I attach it to the payable and the software. One drive and Google Drive is another. I use. I actually use both of them right now, but just so I can look up anything whenever I need to, it's right there at my fingertips. It's just so amazing technology now that you really can work from anywhere with using different apps like that. And then I use Everlands to track my mileage. That one, like even when I go to the post office, I'll track it because I have a PO box specific to my rentals. I do that. Anytime I go to a property, I'll track it. And then,

I use to find deals, I use land glide and on-X hunt. So if I'm driving around, I have my kids trained to look at meters on houses. So they see more than two meters. It's mom, look, look. And on land glide, you can go right on and look at the parcel, see who owns it, see where they live. It even tells you the percentage of land coverage. So if it's 20% wooded, it will tell you that.

And then it gives you a link to the county link. You can look up taxes, stuff like that. and then on X hunt is actually a hunting app and it doesn't have as much as land guide but you can actually see the satellite image of the property so how many buildings are on it you know is our pond is it wooded stuff like that that's what's that called on on X hunt yeah so cool it's for that's awesome that's super helpful it's when they're so they can look up people's property who owns their land if they're deer their tracking went onto the other person's land so oh that's interesting yeah that's that's awesome i've not heard of that one but it's a cool idea

so yeah the app thing obviously like the more systems you got and you clearly are somebody who likes systems you under like you build these things out because they make your life easier but i'm wondering like as a property manager now as a landlord somebody who owns and manages your own properties. Can you, I guess, what can you tell people who are listening to this who are, are nervous about buying and managing their own properties? You know, because I managed my own for the first decade or my wife and I did. And we still do, you know, my mother-in-law managed a lot of them for us now since we moved

to Maui. But like for those, and David doesn't, right? David doesn't know all he did his first one. I didn't want to do it anymore. So people who are considering getting into the game, should they manage their own property, should they not? Is it harder than you think? Is it easier than you think?

I guess what kind of advice or words of wisdom can. you offer to people who are in your shoes, you know, X number of years ago? The first thing I would say is get a job in the business. I mean, there's constantly listings for leasing agents, you know, a Sunday leasing agent to show properties, you know, it's one day a week, couple hours. That is a great way to learn about managing a rental. And then the second thing would be find someone who already does it and just run things by them. You know, you purchase your first property and then bounce things off them.

There's so many real estate investors that are willing to share. And even on Instagram, you know, so many people share how they do it. You know, even checklists I see of, you know, the move out cleaning checklist. I see so many people sharing on Instagram. But I would say either find a job, even just a part-time one or find somebody that you can bounce ideas off and can help you get started. Yeah, that's fantastic. And speaking of Instagram, so, you know, looking on your Instagram, like one of the most popular,

like your most popular post on your Instagram, which, By the way, what's your Instagram? It's wealth from rentals, right? Yes, yeah. Okay, so one of your more popular ones is about how you helped, I think was your like sister by a duplex. Is that right? Can you tell that? Yeah. Like can you explain that story? Yeah.

My sister graduated college. She was 20 years old and we, she got a job at a hospital. And so we were looking at houses for sale in the area. And I convinced her like do a duplex. I showed her, you know, what I'm doing and how it could work for her. So I got into real estate investing too late to house hack. We had already, you know, had her forever house, I guess. So I'm living through her doing it.

But she agreed. So we started looking and we put an offer in right before her 21st birthday. And it was for a duplex. The asking price was 1399 and been on the market for about four months, I think. And we negotiated down to 134,000 with a new roof put on before closing. So when she turned 21 before she closed, and she went and got an FHA loan, so she got really low interest, I think 4.3% and then 3.5% down payment. So the deal was that I would give her the down payment, and it ended up being around $14,000. So she would put me on the deed as 50-50, but she's the one on the mortgage.

So I don't have another mortgage counting against me on my credit. Because a lot of times the banks max how many loans you can have on a property. So she moved into the apartment. There was people living upstairs paying $5.50. Her mortgage payment was $1,0.50 a month. So they ended up moving out when their lease ended. And she had renovated the downstairs a little bit and she moved upstairs. So now she's renting the apartment out for $1,000.

for the downstairs and she's living upstairs. So she's paying $45 towards her mortgage right now. And she's like, she's loving it and she read it some of the upstairs too. And now she's, it's almost been a year since she moved in. So with the FHA loan, she could move out and get another property with another FHA loan

and kind of do the same thing again. So we're starting to look again at another property. Yeah. But it's, it's been really exciting to share. this with my sister, I guess, and get her started so young. Yeah. That's one of the most valuable things.

We don't talk about it a lot, but one of the valuable parts of becoming a real estate investor and really like learning this is not just your ability to build wealth for yourself, but your ability to influence those around you to change their destiny forever. Like everybody from your sister to your, you know, you have kids, you said, right? So you're like, your kids, like they're going to have a different life because you invest in real estate because you know this stuff. You know, I help, I kind of like help supplement my parents' retirement now. like they're retired and because they were in a deal with me and then I basically took that deal

and we made all the profit from it I turned it into a loan and so now like I pay them from this like just a note basically for the next 20 30 years like as long like as long as they're around for like they get extra income now to support their retirement I like I don't know some of the really cool things about real estate so I also heard a rumor that you did something similar to what I did with buying a property for your kids can you explain that yeah so I I love when you talk about it. So I took three properties that I have and I've designated one for each of my kids. And I want to do exactly what you're doing for Rosie. And so they each have a 15 year mortgage on it. My kids are only five, three, and one. So plenty of time to pay off the mortgage before

they're ready to go to college. But I want to have it paid off. And then when they're ready to go to college or start a business, whatever they want to do, I'm going to refinance the house and let them use that money to, you know, start their future. So it's really exciting because they, they know which house is designated to them. I mean, my five and three year old do. But we talk about like, should we do this and this update in this house or, you know, okay, your tenant paid rent this month. And I'm trying as much as I can to get them involved in it.

And they do showings with me and stuff like that. That's so cool. I love, I love that you like took that advice because like, yeah, I did that. And I like to pretend like I, I, I, At the time, I knew exactly what I was doing. But in reality, I was just like, like, I had a property and, like, Rosie was born that week. And so he closed that. And then I was like, it'd be cool if we put this on, like, a, you know, shorter-term mortgage and paid it off before her college.

And I think that's how it turned into, you know, college hacking or whatever you want to call it today. But, anyway, I love that you, like, I actually just took that and ran with it. And now you have, like, and again, like, people, I tell the story a lot about, like, how we can help our kids get to, you know, avoid all their college debt entirely. but the real like the best part for me is that rosy and your kids as well get to see the power of real estate investing for the next 20 years it's not something they heard mom talking about or dad talking about it's like no that's mine like and yeah rosy's going to be doing her own profit loss statements when she gets old enough to do it that's her math like and she'll get to do all that stuff and i think it's i think it's awesome so yeah this morning actually my uh three year old in the car he's like mom i really like that house he's like when it gets older, can we buy it and rent it out to somebody? Somebody who went there that was like so proud of him. That's so cool. Did you tell him, well, does it have two meters on it?

It was a single meter. I'm going to have to trade a better at that one. Come on three-year-old. Let's go. Come on. That's funny. No, that's so amazing. And they get to learn.

They get to grow. They get to see this. So, yeah, if only more, parents could find more ways to, like, involve their kids in their real estate. Like, I don't know, I had such a great time. I mean, Rosie was only two at the time, but we're driving around. I don't know, this is a few months ago. We were visiting back where we lived the last decade and we were looking at all of our

properties driving around. And it was just me and Rosie in the car. Heather was at her mom's or something. And I was just like explaining to her at two years old, like what, like, this is our house. We own this. And she had no idea, but it was fun to be able to try to explain it to her. And then she said something cute the other day.

I mean, like a day or two later, she was like, are we going back to one of our houses. And again, I don't know if she knew what I was talking about, but she must have at least understood somewhat, like that's, that's like a toy. Like, Daddy owns that. And so, you're planting that seed. Yeah. All right, well, let's move on to some specifics about like today. How are you, how are you finding deals? How are you offering on them? I mean, are you still using partners? And then how do you finance them? Let's go through some of those specifics before we get to the deal deep dive. So we'll start with, yeah, how do you find deals today in this market? And where are you finding deals? I don't even know where you're investing.

So I'm outside Buffalo, New York and farm countries, rural areas. I've been going off on my own now purchasing properties. I use a commercial mortgage line of credit to actually purchase the properties. So when I decided I wanted to go out on my own, I needed more money. So my husband has this old farmhouse that he had purchased from his parents. And it was paid off. And we were actually renting it out at the time. So I went to a bank and it's a small community bank. here and they pitched me a commercial mortgage line of credit. So appraised at $130,000 and I was able to pull out $108,000 and I had to file it as a mortgage being commercial, but it acts like a line of credit. I can pull off it anytime and I pay interest only payments on it. It's variable.

I think right now it's at like 6.75%, but it has been amazing for me to be able to make cash offers and it's really helped me. And I like it because it's not on my own personal residence either. I know a lot of people use Helax to do that, but I like the safety that I'm not risking my own house to. Yeah, that's cool. I do the same thing. And it's an awesome tool.

A lot of people balk at hard money rates and never even stop to ask, well, if I already have an asset with equity in it, how could I use that as collateral? And it's like, I call it giving a loan to yourself for really, really cheap. I'm paying a bank 6% off of my own asset as opposed to a hard money lender that want maybe 9, 10, sometimes up to 14% interest. And it just functions like a bridge loan, right? You use it to buy the property. And it's a really easy way to burr.

If you buy a fix your upper property with that money, then you fix it up. Then you go refy it into a traditional 30 year rate, probably even less than 6.5%. You pay off your line. You've got that money to go buy your next. round of houses and you don't need to keep cash in the bank. Yeah. Is that actually what you're doing? Yeah.

Like are you refinancing them then and pay back to the money? The money isn't pulled off for that long, maybe three, four months. And then, you know, it's just paid back off. So you're really not paying that much interest. It's definitely worth it. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of my favorite strategies for investing is if you have the equity, if you can get a line

of credit, whether it's on your own property or on another one. Like that is such some of the best money to get. Yeah. Well, what's awesome is that in five, ten, maybe 15 years, those three properties you bought with the commercial line will then have enough equity in them that you can do a commercial line on those and then go by the next round, right? And it's like these trees that you plant and then they grow and then you can use those to do the next one. And that's how you kind of expand exponentially. What's important is that you get started by partnering with somebody or not worrying about toilets overflowing or all the dumb stuff that keeps people from taking action so that you get to

that point where everything's kind of rolling with momentum. Yeah. And to kind of add on to that one thing, too, that I do to systemize everything is I have a company that I work with that they just do maintenance. So they're like a property management company, but just maintenance. So that's really helped too where I, even if there was that, you know, one a.m. call toilets overflowing on my voicemail. It just says, you know, please call for this emergency maintenance.

And they pick up that phone call and they go and take care of it. and then they informed me the next day what went on. But it has been very helpful to go and find someone that will do that for you for those very few. They've only, I think, once maybe gotten a midnight call for something in the five years I've been doing this. But if you can find someone who will do that for you too, that helps a lot. Yeah, the midnight call thing to go back to that. Like, again, everyone talks about it. And I've been doing this now for 12 years.

I've had one. Like I had one middle and I call and it wasn't even an emergency. too. And I've had like one like 10 o'clock at night, water pouring through kind of a problem. And like that's a lot. I mean, I've had a lot of rentals over the last 12 years and that's like twice. And both of them, I could have just called a contractor and, you know, yeah, silly. So all right. So how do you find properties today? How are you finding deals to buy? And what are you looking for? Most of them I'm finding in the MLS. I work with the realtor. She sends me deals pretty often. and then I check Zillow every day.

But just there's not a lot of competition in our area. So I've been finding a lot of deals that way. And then I just, if I see for sale by owner, I'll call on those. Even if it's not a multifamily, I'll call and ask, hey, do you have any other properties available? But mostly it's been word of mouth too. I tell everyone that I buy rental properties. So definitely been helpful.

So. And are you only looking multifamily? I mean, that's the province all you want is multifamily. Yeah, I have the one single family and that's the old farmhouse. But the rest are duplexes and then a three unit and a six unit. And why is that? I think that the overhead, I guess. I like as many people under one roof as possible,

especially with me for my job managing the apartment complexes. So the one apartment complexes, is 40 units and then I have 30 units but I feel like I run around a lot more managing stuff with okay we've got you know these six yards to cut the grass this week we you know I got to make sure my guys fit it in and stuff like that where at the apartment complex just one you know long to worry about so that that's really my biggest thing is I don't want to have a ton of single family homes and continuous maintenance on all of those so Sure. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

So what in your business fires you up? Like what do you just like love doing? What are you in the zone and flow? Like were you just like, yeah, this is my game. I love analyzing a deal and like getting that aha moment like, yes, this property is going to work. And I used to be afraid to submit low ball like offers. And I used to be afraid of what my realtor would think and what the seller would think. but now I like get excited like okay this is so low that this would be awesome if it was accepted

and I love helping other people I have two good friends that invest to and one started investing about the same time I did and the other one just about a year ago and it's just really fun to bounce things off each other and you know go look at a deal together and say okay should we partner should you know we you know one of us buy it or what so Yeah, very cool. And then what about your future? Like, where do you want ahead? Where do you see this going?

I've pretty much changed my mind every single day. Some days, some days I'm like, I just want to pay off all the properties, live off of the rental income I have now. And then other days, I'm like, you know what? Let's scale. Let's scale. So last week I decided I'm going to sell the first duplex I ever bought. And I put it, it should hit the market today, actually. And I want to use that cash to maybe buy a four unit, six unit, something like that.

I want to scale up. Cool. That's today's idea where I want to be. Yeah. And I know that changes. Don't feel bad about that because we all go through it. There's like an entrepreneurial bipolarism that goes on where one day you're on top of the world and you want to conquer the whole thing.

And then sometimes one small thing happens and you just, I hate this. I hate everything about this. Why did I ever do this? go through that routinely. That's funny. Yeah. So I want to ask you, Ashley, we don't get a ton of women who are as into real estate investing as you are. And those that are often asking, why are there not more women that are doing this? Can you tell me a little what your experience has been like as a woman in the industry if you found it was extra challenging or maybe there was some benefits to it, how you navigated this world as a woman and then what advice you have for other women that want to

get started? Okay. I actually have a good story for that when I had driven by the this commercial property one time. And there was just a commercial sign out front for it for sale. And I just called on it. It looked like residential units upstairs. And it was a realtor. And he said that his father owned the property and actually had more properties for sale. If I'd be interested meeting him in the area and he'd show me all the properties. So that right there was great. I was really excited. So I get to the property. I get out of the car. He's standing there. And you know, we shake hands and stuff. And he's just standing there. And, I'm like, okay, can we go in?

He's like, well, is your husband getting out of the car? So it was really funny. He just assumed my husband, you know, this was my husband's deal or he was a part of it. And I was like, no, it's, it's just me. I'm the one interested in buying it. So I've actually ended up buying about 12 units from his dad from that deal. So we've become good friends because of it. And then the six I have under contract now are from the same guy.

but it was just really funny that he assumed that my husband would be a part of it. But I honestly think. Assuming, yeah. Yeah. So I think it's very easy to do because you don't need to do the maintenance. There are people out there that will do the maintenance for you. And I feel like that's why a lot of people don't want to do it because they're like,

I don't know anything about the construction of a house. I don't know how to repair things. Well, I have no idea either. 21-year-old sister did a better job, you know, doing her own maintenance and updating her property than I ever could. But you can hire all that stuff out. And as long as your numbers are good, you can make that work. I probably have had my husband go to a property one time in the last five years to do a repair for me. He is very hands-off from it. And I don't recommend not having your husband on board and doing it. My husband's very supportive. And, you know, he loves talking to me about it.

it, but I honestly don't think he knows where any of my properties are. So it's just an interesting perspective that, you know, you don't need to have a man, you know, to do that maintenance. And I'm not a feminist really. I'm a strong, you're dependent woman. I wish my husband would do it with me because then we could just drive around and look at properties out there. Yeah, yeah.

That's why you're forced to recruit your three-year-olds to do it. So what about advantages that a woman might have in the industry that may be overlooked? Well, sometimes I can use the excuse. Like, oh, you know what? I need to talk to my husband. If I don't feel comfortable like giving an answer right then and there, it's a perfectly believable excuse that anyone's just like, oh, yeah, definitely. Okay, you don't need to answer on something now.

That's great. Brandon and I use it with our imaginary partner. Oh, I got to go run this by my partner, you know? Yeah, my one partner was on his honeymoon last week. So I used that to like delay a furnace install that I thought we could have a better offer. That's funny. That's really funny. Hey, Ashley, what's been your biggest challenge so far in real estate investing?

Gosh, I don't know. I think a lot of it was at first money is until I got that mortgage line of credit. But then once that I found out that after that, I'd say tenant relations, just you're in manage your own property. You really need to be understanding and you need to learn how to deal with your tenants because it can break you. And that honestly has been the hardest thing for me. And even at my job, I've grown so much from the day I started to now with handling tenants

and knowing, you know, just what they expect, what I expect, and how to draw a fine line between us and not give in to anything and still be compassionate about their situation. Yeah, that's really good. And conversely, what makes you smile? What makes you like, what memory of the past, you know, a few years since you got into this? By the way, when did you get into this?

I don't think we asked that. It would be five years ago. So like 2014. I bought my property. Okay. All right. So in the past five years, what memory like just stands out to you is like, that was a good day. That was something special. I paid off my husband's truck with my rental property income. And I just love that like the day I click that button and submitted that final

payment because he has always supported me forever. And it was just so nice to be able to do one thing for him, you know, that was just, I've worked so hard. And, you know, I'm gone a lot. Just, you know, I've been traveling to conferences lately. And so it was about a year ago that I was able to do that for him. And since then, I've actually paid off his farm equipment. I have one more, a skid steer to pay off for him. But just great, like showing that all this time I've wasted on real estate actually hasn't been on waste. Like, I've been able to, you know, provide for our family and, you know, get his farm paid off. So that really has been worth all of it for me.

That's, that's phenomenal. And I mean, it truly is like your Instagram thing says, wealth from rentals. Like it doesn't happen overnight. Right. Over time, like it just gets better and better and better. That's a cool thing about real estate, right? It gets better.

Like, not only do you get wealthier, people talk about that, your systems get better. So the work tends to be a little easier or at least more manageable. You feel more comfortable. You make more money. You get more cash flow. Your equity goes up. your loan gets paid down just it's just wealth like over time just it grows so that's a great great story about that how that uh how that's kind of worked are you going to a BP conference the BP

con yes I am yeah I probably registered in the first five minutes yeah that's awesome we're gonna have we're gonna have a yeah we're gonna have a good time we'll hang out um very cool oh by the way I think at the I think I said it in the quick tip at the beginning of today's show but there is a discount code I think it's for like, yeah, it's like 200 bucks off if you use code last chance 200. That's one word last chance 200. It's like a $200 discount. It's the last chance to get tickets for the conference. So if they're not already sold out.

So go to the bigger pockets conference.com. Check it out. Sorry, actually, you didn't get a $200 discount. I did because I'm a pro member. Oh, there you go. Very nice. Very nice. Yeah, you got in there early.

That's awesome. All right. So let's shift gears here and head over to the deal. Deep Die. dive. This is the part of the show where we dive deep into one particular property or investment that you've made, whether it's good or bad, and we find out more details about it.

So let's go there now. Ashley, you got a property in mind we can pick a part? Yes. So this one I did with a partner, and it's the partner that we're 50-50 on everything. We found this property in a small town. We'd never invested in there before the property was in a flood zone. It was vacant, and the guy next door owned it, just wanted to get rid of it, didn't want to deal with it anymore. So we took a little bit. It was in a flood zone. And does that worry you at all?

Because I mean, I own some properties in flood zones, but it did. It doesn't anymore. Okay. Why? Well, the property was only $35,000. So if it did get washed out, it's not really the heavy of a loss, I guess. And what kind of property was it? Is this duplex? Yeah. Oh, that's right. Okay. I think you said that. Cool. How about that? Go ahead, David. How'd you find the deal? Just on the MLS. So I started expanding the towns that I was looking in. And this town actually had cheaper taxes than the other towns I was looking in, but, you know, still had public water, sewer, a couple of the other things I look for.

Plus, it was in walking distance of, you know, the grocery store, stuff like that. And it's also a very low-income community. there was a lot of renters in that area and just there was nothing available, nothing available to rent there. That's cool. I like that you're not afraid of those because I've had a lot of luck in that kind of a situation as well, like a smaller town, lower income. You know, a lot of people are like, no, you got to only buy in Phoenix or Atlanta, or Seattle or Denver where the market's just crazy.

But like I've had a lot of luck like just with rental property in the small little towns that aren't booming and growing. Yeah, yeah. You don't get as much appreciation maybe, but I like that cash flow. So how did you, so you said $35,000. Was that the actual, was that what they're asking and you just paid what they're asking or do you do any negotiation in there? Yeah, they were asking $39.9 and we got it down to $354, I believe it was. And we did a cash offer and it was our first deal we were partnering on and we did not know where we were going to get the money yet.

So it was a little nerve wrecking at first. We have used like a hard money lender, each of us separate. and we could always use him, but we just didn't want to use him at this time. So we went to a small local bank and we just wanted to look at what our permanent financing would be so we could kind of finalize our numbers on the property. And when we were talking to the loan officer about permanent financing once we closed, he said, well, how were you guys buying the property? And we just, well, we're figuring it out and tried not to show that we had no idea.

So he's like, well, you know, if you guys are interested, I could give you a 90-day unsecured loan, interest only at 8%. So our mouth kind of drops like, really? You can do that. And he's like, yeah. And we're like, okay, we'll do it. So we got this 90-day loan. And the deal was we would come back and as soon as we closed refinanced with the same bank. So we did that. We paid, it took us three months to close, so we paid, or to refinance after we closed, so we paid maybe three months interest on that. And I need a day loan. So after we closed, we put an $800 fridge in there, and that was all we did to the

property. The appraiser comes in a week after closing, and it appraised for $55,000. And we had bought it for $35,000. So that was super exciting. That must have been one fancy fridge right there. I know. We did go a little overboard, but. So it was the only thing we had to buy, but that's awesome.

55,000. So we're like, well, we want to max out what we can get. So it ended up being like 41,000, 250 or whatever we could withdraw from it. So the bank was- So you took out more money than you even bought it for. Yes, yes. And the bank wasn't really happy about it, but the same thing they would give us, I think when it's 75% of the value,

or whatever. So they worked with us and they did it. And when we closed, we covered all our closing costs with the extra money. And we had, I think maybe $2,000 extra. We just threw into a reserves account. And so.

Yeah, but actually you can't, no money, no money down is a, is a myth. You can't actually do that. That's a scam. You can't do it. So clearly you're wrong.

No, that's awesome. So, well, I guess, David, I don't want to see your question. You can go. Well, you just explained what you did with it. It was the Burr method.

I was actually thinking I wish I'd interviewed you when I wrote the Burr book because I'd have been such a cool story to put in there. Like how the fridge hack allowed you to pull out more than what blood zone property? So what lessons did you end up learning from this deal? Well, I just want to add one more thing about it that makes it a great deal too is that the property, it was $35,000 and it rents for $1,200 a month, $600. Whoa. So that was another really exciting, great thing about the deal.

And I'm sure that also helped it appraise. We had told the appraiser we were going to list it for that. We didn't have renters when they appraised it. But it's been really great property to have. Yeah, that's phenomenal. It's like a 3% rule deal right there. Yeah, yeah. That's cool.

I'm sorry, David. What was your question again? What lessons did you learn for? Okay. So, well, one thing. would be the flood zone is like, don't be afraid of, you know, weird things and that come up. It costs us $1,500 a year to have the flood insurance. And our numbers still were great even with it. And we had to get the flood insurance because of the mortgage. And maybe when the mortgage is paid off,

we'll drop it, self-insure it. I'm not really sure. But another thing would be, don't be afraid to contact loan officers and ask them for, you know, what kind of financing they can offer. for your exact situation. Like there's just so many different types of financing, especially the smaller community banks. You want to know a funny story about flood insurance? So I'm not giving this advice. I'll warn people ahead of time.

This is not advice and time what a friend of mine does and it works out really well for him. Whether or not it works for everyone else, I don't know. But he buys properties in flood zones and then deliberately will cancel the flood insurance right after buying it. And so what the bank, the bank finds out, they get this message.

You've canceled flood insurance. You need to put it back on. He'll be like, eh, no. And they're like, no, you have to put it on. They'll send him a letter. He's like, no. They're like, well, we're going to place lender. We're going to go buy the flood insurance and place it for you.

And he's like, okay. So they do that. And it's like half the cost of flood insurance. Like they're like lenders. Like he's found this numerous times. Lenders get a better rate on flood insurance than he does. Wow. So he just cancels in flood insurance and makes the lender put it on,

which then it just comes out of escrow. He doesn't have to deal with it. And it's like half the cost. So anyway, I thought that it was going to work in every area. But he's found this like trick and it just works. So I actually paid out. off. I had two properties in flood zones. I paid them both off. Got out of the flood insurance because like I'd rather just self-insure basically.

I'm like worst case, flood comes, damages the bottom, you know, two feet. Like I would say a five-foot flood comes like crazy, right? Damages the bottom two feet. I got to dry it out. I lose rent for a few months. I got to put new drywall on the bottom, new flooring. I'm going to be out 15 grand. But I was paying like seven grand a year on this property for flood insurance. There was a really, really high flood insurance there. And it was, I was like, yeah. it's not going to happen every other year.

So I just decided to just take the risk. So anyway, so that's something to consider with flood insurance. One thing I've, I don't like about flood insurance is, and again, I would still buy in a flood zone, but it's a subsidized program, which means that the government helps pay down

so it's not so expensive for people. But that comes and goes in fashion with whoever's in office and what parties are there. So I sometimes have a worry that that adds a degree of risk to me that I'm like, I don't really want to do. But if you're like, 35, $40,000 level. I mean, who cares?

If you're talking about a $500,000 property in a flood zone where your flood insurance is $7 grand a year, I'd be a little bit more concerned probably. But cheaper areas, I don't mind it. But cool. All right, well, that's the end of the deal deep dive. Let's head over to the next segment. The Fire Round.

It's time for the Fire Round. All right. These are the questions that come direct out of the Bigger Pockets forums. We're going to fire them at you right now, Ashley. Number one from Calais. Alicia in Miami, Florida, what is your criteria of a good deal? Like, do you look for a rate of return or are you looking for a cash flow number? What makes it a good deal for you?

Really right now, all I'm looking for is cash flow. That's what, and putting as little of my own money down as possible. So it will be how much money I have available on my line of credit to use. If, you know, I can pay the whole thing through that and not have to withdraw from my personal savings. I see that as a great deal. And then if there's cash flow, and right now that's been my primary vehicle to build while, pay off, you know, debt, stuff like that.

So what I look for. All right. Next question from Nathan in L.A. I'm looking at a set of duplexes to buy in a rural California town. Brandon, did you skip this question just so you wouldn't have to say rural? I don't know what you're talking about, David. Shut up, man. That comes from the log.

long ago that the annals of bigger pockets lore when rural was an inside joke with Brandon and Josh. All right. The seller is offering seller financing and I'm trying to find the right price to offer. I cannot find any comps in the area. Do you have any tips for valuing property in a remote area? Yeah. So for me, I'm not looking for appreciation at all.

So I really don't look at comps at all because I'm looking at the numbers work for what the asking prices or what I want to offer. I'm not looking for equity. And if you can have that cash flow and you can pay down your mortgage, you're already building equity if your tenants are paying down your mortgage. I really don't look at the comps when I'm looking at rural areas because I don't care what other people are paying for houses. I want to pay what works for me on a house.

Yeah, love it. Yeah, great. All right. Ryan from Phoenix, Arizona asked, hey, I just purchased, I just purchased, I just purchased a fourplex in what is probably a sea area. Two of the units are vacant and do not have washer and dryers, but they do have the hookups. How much value do wash and dryers really add?

Do you think it's worth to spend $1,000 to add a washer and dryer in these units? Well, if my $800 fridge, you know, appreciate my value. No, actually what I have been doing probably the last year is I don't supply any appliances anymore. It's really cut down on repairs and maintenance on appliances. But also, I found so many people want to bring their own anyways. They either have their own or they want, you know, a nicer one with an ice maker and double doors and a lot more than I provide. And I don't think that, you know, you're going to get that much of value if the washer and dryers are actually in there than if they weren't. But having the hookups definitely adds a lot of value right there.

Yeah, I hate having washer and dryers and units that I supply because they do break and tenants do mistreat them. And then who's fixing it? The landlil is. I would almost rather, I'm not saying I do this, but I would almost rather like, be like, hey, tenant, you go by your own. Take it off the rent this month. Like I would almost rather do that. I don't have to deal with that. Even if it's like I like, I like, obviously I'm not going to do that.

But like that's how much I hate dealing with repairs and maintenance on washers and dryers and dishwashers and garbage disposals and all that crap. I literally started doing that in, uh, in, uh, in, Some states is common to provide a fridge and others, it's not. So like in California, we don't give a fridge, but in Florida, you do. So I noticed that it's not even the upfront cost of the appliances. It's like you said, the reoccurring maintenance every year when they break it. And you have to go repair it. And I noticed that like just the labor and time to go repair the appliance is oftentimes

a third of the price of the whole thing to fix a small piece. So what I started doing was noticing that that was the majority of the callouts. and I just started saying, hey, let's not provide a fridge and let's tell them that they can have $500 off the moving cost or the first month's rent to bring their own. And it's such a good investment just to not have that stuff come up over and over and over. That's cool. And I bet tennis love that too. Like, oh, I can pick my own fridge out. Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. My landlord bought me a fridge. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. And now treat it like it's your own. So I don't have to fix it every time.

Yeah. That's cool. Okay. The next question is from David. in Greenville, South Carolina. Didn't we just interview Josiah who was in Greenville or is there just 100 Greenville?

I think it's saying Greenville. Obviously, Greens have done a lot to contribute to this exciting. We keep naming cities after them. There's a lot of Greenvills, Greenbergs. All right. Green's Burr. So David, also great first name.

I'm liking this guy more and more. I understand that no one can really predict a true recession, but is anyone else pumping the brakes on Burr investing or being more cautious. My concern is getting caught with my pants down with high interest rate debt before I can refinance or assuming higher ARVs at the beginning of the deal but seeing a dip towards the end. I'm all about what's comfortable for you. If you are taking every single thing you have and investing it and you have nothing left, I wouldn't even do that if there wasn't a looming recession

coming on. I think that it's, you should be, have that little bit of safety all the time. And I highly, like even the property I did for the deal deep, I've like, that was no money out of my pocket. But that doesn't mean that I didn't have money in my savings account in case, you know, that brand new fridge broke down than day after closing or whatever. You know, I, I think that if there is a looming recession, just whatever makes you comfortable. If you want to pump the brakes, that's fine. but I wouldn't say stop investing because there still are good deals out there. And if you make the good deal, you can get into that fixed long-term financing and you said it so that even if, you know, a tenant moves out, you're in an area that you can fill it or you are in multifamily where there's still other two or three units occupied. So I wouldn't say stop investing if there is a looming recession, but just use whatever you're comfortable with.

Yeah, that's cool. I would concur. Like, I don't care if there's a recession looming or not, but like at the same time, like, I do my investing thinking that it might happen. I mean, if it's 50, let's say it's 50, right? Okay, how does that change my approach? Well, like, little thing I mentioned before, but like I'm going to start flipping here in Maui.

Like, we're building up a little flipping operation. Great. So I'm going to make sure that if the market drops 15, 20%, we're in the middle of that flip, I'm still okay. So I'm approaching it as if, now if it doesn't happen, cherry on top. I just make more money. But it also means, hey, I'm going to. to start flipping with partners. Like, I'm going to bring in money partners who can fund the whole deal

and the rehab costs. Instead of going hard money, I'm going to use partners because, yeah, I make less money, but if something goes wrong, we just hold the property. Let's risk. Let's risk. We hold the property. I mean, let's say you go flip a house or do a bird deal, right? And it's a $500,000 property because you're in a more expensive area, a million dollar property. Yeah, you're doing hard money and the recession drops you 15%. Like, that's going to suck. But if you got a partner, okay, well, we rented out for a few years. The partner's only getting a 4% return during that time. But who cares? That's the risk they took. They're not losing money. No one's losing money. So again, it's just a different way of looking at it saying if this is going to happen, what do we do to prevent against, you know,

to make sure we don't lose. Well, it's odd. He mentioned the Burr method because I actually like the burn method specifically because it protects you against a recession. If you got all your money out of that deal and the market tanks, who cares? You're not taking a loss. You've already recovered your capital. In fact, you use that capital to go by cheaper properties. It's a good thing. Yeah. If he can't refinance it, I think that's his point. Like, what if you can't refine it? He's talking about the entire market dropping dramatically within your two or three month window of a refi. Just like that target is so tiny when you compare the years and years of time that you're hoping it won't happen then. And even if it does happen, how is that different than if you just put 25% down?

If it drops 25%, the whole market does, which is huge. And you refinance for 25% less. That's still the same as if you'd put 25% down on a regular investment property. You're not really that far off of anyway. Like the Byr method was still the best. way to go. So I would probably say if you're worried about a recession, burn investing is the best way to go. And just don't buy anything that's going to be a 12 month remodel where you're just, you're exposed for a long period of time. Yeah, that's a big thing right now. I don't want to do massive

rehabs that are. Yeah, I was like an idea the other day with a $2 million a property. They went to almost $2 million for it. It was going to be worth like 2.5. It's 12 months of work. And I'm like, geez, like that sounds so much fun, but I don't want to be caught by my pants down. So do you want an analogy? I would love one. It's like when you're, you're playing musical chairs and there's a ton of chairs and you're kind of everyone's goofing off and they're dancing and being silly because they know there's a bunch of chairs to go in. Well, as the chairs get smaller, that's like the recessions coming. You start seeing like you're lingering really, really close to that chair before jump into the next one because you know that music's going to stop in any minute.

Yeah, you take a really long period to do your remodel when there's a lot of chairs out there. But if you really feel like recessions coming close, you only take deals that are a short little jump to the next chair and you'll be okay. We actually had a guest a couple years ago give that a similar analogy. talking about how it's like musical chairs. David Goodmansson. I don't remember the episode number, but we'll put it in the show notes. But he talked about how like, he used an analogy. And then he said, you know what? He's like, what I realize is I don't need to be the last one out. I don't need to be jumping from chair to chair at the last second. So I sit down. I'm going to sit down. And then when the lights, you know, everyone scrambles for their chairs, I'm already sitting down.

Yeah, I might not make the most amount of money in the world. But that's okay. I'm relaxed. I'm enjoying it. I enjoyed the run up. And the next time I'm going to do it again. I don't need to be the last one. I just, I don't need to be the last one in. I would rather be the first one out. And that was just a really, really good. Strong showing from David's on today's show. I know.

That was another David. All right. We got to move on. Let's get to the next and last segment of the show. It is our world famous. Famous for. Let's get to the famous for number one. Ashley, what's your current favorite real estate investing book?

I had a really hard time picking this because there's a lot that I love. love. So I want to try to do something different. And it's actually, so I'm from New York State, and it's the New York State Landlords Guide. And it's a guide that actually New York State put out, and it goes through all of your legal rights as a landlord in New York State. And it even has copies of the documents to, if you need to file an eviction, it has the, as previously the three-day notice. Now it's a 14-day notice. And then, you know, your petition for eviction. And it just has, it's a, you know, very little book, but it just has so much information. So if your state does something like that.

Yeah, that'd be super helpful. Yeah. But they changed from three-day notice to 14-day notice. Oh, that's been awful. There's a lot of pages that just happened in June. Yeah. Like a month and a half long process now in New York State to evict someone. And even when you get your court date, they can go to court and say, we want a two-week adjourn.

And that was something. do and yeah so as if it takes 14 days to process the information that you stop paying you're right just you need to let it soak in yeah yeah wow you know I wasn't going to bring this up Ashley but I did check out your Instagram page before we started and I noticed that you have pictures with you and Brandon's book but not my book just complete coincidence I'm sure well didn't you win didn't you win one of my books yeah I won one so if you send me an book. I will definitely close a picture with it.

That was a very good turnaround, actually. You nicely flip the script on me right there. Well done. Counter punch. That's fine. I've been doing free book. I'm doing free book Fridays on my Instagram. So if you follow me at Beardie Brandon,

you might get a free book on a Friday. And same with David Green. You should start giving away copies of your Burr book. I like how you just set me up for a free book Friday. Yeah, I did right there. David Green is actually going to give out three copies of his books on his Instagram this week that this episode comes out. So go to David Green 24 on Instagram.

Dave's going to give all three copies. He'll explain on his Instagram how that's going to happen. You like that, David? Has to happen now. And if you guys want to know what it's like to be friends with Brandon, it is that all the time. Constantly. We have a great show for you today. David's going to tell you about today's quick tip.

Go. And I just got to make something up right there on the spot. You know, David, you can push your way to greatness or you can get pulled there. And I like pulling you there. That's what we're doing. You absolutely do. That's what it's like holding on to the road. of a water ski after you fall and just getting sucked underwater when you're friends with Brandon.

He's always doing this. Oh, you like bigger pockets. Well, so does David. He's right here. David, tell him everything they need to do to build wealth in 30 seconds. And then I got to go. He's always writing checks that I got to catch.

That's why I love Brandon. That's how you do it. Thank you, friend, for seeing the best to me. All right, Ashley, back to you. What is your favorite business book? I chose Hug Your Hater by Jay Bear. So this book is all about just how to have relationships. relationships with it's customer service-based, so how to deal with your customers.

So I use it a lot when I relate with my tenants. And even talking with contractors, vendors, it's been really helpful to just, when someone says this, how to react. And it's basically like a kill them with kindness book. But I've scribbled in it and took so many notes since I read it. But I highly recommend it to anyone who is managing their own rentals and how to deal with tenants. That's good. That's a good title.

Yeah. Yeah, I like that. I'd not heard of that. I love new books. I love people bring up new books on the show because that's great. Good job. All right. What are other than having your kids look for the next investment property for you?

What are some of your other hobbies? Well, we recently built like a patio behind our house with a shelter and a fire pit. So that's the one thing I love to do is hang out there with my family. And then the second thing would be travel hacking with credit cards. I've gotten really into it in the past year. I've booked probably six trips, all completely paid for for flights and hotels. So it's really helped me, been able to go to conferences. I have three coming up this fall, and my flights are free and my hotels are free,

and I'm just paying for the conference itself. But it's been fun to do with my kids too. My business partner, Ryan Murdoch, who's sitting right now outside the pool, That guy's a rock star He's always like traveling He's like he we go we get on a plane And like they come over to him And they're like

Thank you Mr. Murdoch for being a diamond platinum Special member can I rub your feet for you And they're like like they're just It's ridiculous how like they treat him like royalty And he's like he just is really good at the credit card game So he's like I don't know We get to fly I get to fly first class with him Because they're just like oh you have a guest Mr.

Murdoch here let's massage his toes too Like it's insane The credit card is a fascinating man I feel like someday someone's going to write a book about his life, just a biography, and it would be such a good read. It would be amazing, yeah. I was telling Brandon, I saw that movie once upon a time in Hollywood, which is a very weird movie.

But Brad Pitt's character reminded me exactly what Ryan is like. Can he hear that we're talking about him right now? He can't hear that we're talking about him. He's sitting out there awkwardly looking at me, like shaking his head. So, anyway, funny. All right. Last question, Ashley. What do you believe sets apart success?

successful real estate investors from all those who give up, fail, or never get started. I think the willingness to share, share how you've done it, what you're doing, because every time you share it, it gets yourself fired up and you get, you know, more and more excited about it to keep it going. And even on those hard days when, you know, it doesn't seem like it's working, just go and share it with someone who wants to learn. And that's part of the reason I started my Instagram account was I had. I literally have no other social media, but I just wanted to, you know, share what I'm doing

and to talk about it with other real estate investor. And it really does get me excited and even bigger pockets. I probably found bigger pockets maybe two and a half years ago and I'd already had six or seven rentals. And after I found bigger pockets, I just exploded. I, within one year, I like almost tripled my portfolio. But it's just don't be afraid to don't keep it a. secret what you're doing, share it with people because if they start doing the same,

it's just going to benefit you and help you. So fantastic answer. I not heard that one before either. You're like bringing the fire on the famous four here at the end. So well done. Ashley, fire care. Okay, last question of the day. Tell us where people can find out more about you.

It would be at bigger pockets, Ashley Care. And then my Instagram page at wealth from rentals. There you go. And care is K-E-H-R. What kind of, is that like Swedish or? I have no idea. Oh, I don't know.

It's my married to say. I don't, I'm never raised as my husband. Yeah, it's funny. I'm going to go with Danish. I don't know if that's a thing. But with that, let's get out of here. Ashley, thank you so much for joining us today.

This has been fantastic. Of course, everybody go follow Ashley over on Instagram at Wealth from Rentals. And if you have any questions, comments, or concerns, well, keep them to yourself. Just kidding, no, go to BiggerPockets.com. I show 348 at the bottom. There's a comment section there.

Write a comment to Ashley. Tell you what you liked about our show today. Something that stood out to you. Ask her questions. All that can be done there. As well as links to all of those apps and programs and things she talked about earlier on the show, all there on the show notes. So fantastic.

Ashley, thank you so much. Yeah, thank you guys. At a great time. All right. And that was our interview with Ashley Care. Awesome show. awesome woman. This was just a good episode. I love these people who are like in the trenches, like building their business and doing it like such a smart methodical way. And she definitely

fits that. Yeah. These are some of my favorite shows where you realize this is just a normal person. They're doing everything that anybody else could be doing. And they just have the right mindset. And that mindset is all that matters when it comes to being successful. Yeah. It totally is. So yeah, very, very cool. Like we said, go follow Ashley over on Instagram at Wealth from rentals. Check out the show notes at biggerpockets.com. So I show 348 and make sure you sign up for the bigger pockets conference by going to BiggerPocketsconference.com. Use that code.

What was it? Last chance 200. No spaces. Just one word. Last chance 200. And you can save a couple hundred bucks on the Bigger Pockets conference if it's not sold out yet. So come hang out with us in Nashville.

It's going to be a lot of fun. So that's all I got. Yeah. All right. She is on Instagram. She is Ashley at Wealth for Mentals. He is Beardy Brandon and I am David Green 24. When you buy your ticket, send me a message and tell me, hey, I'm going to be there.

Let me know. We'll see if we can get something organized for all the people that reached out. Well, maybe Brandon, I'll put together a little private mastermind. Since he's giving away my books for free, but Friday, I am. I do that. I'm going to give away his time at the conference here so you guys can get to see the what's behind the curtain when it comes to the awesomeness of Brandon Turner. Fancy, fancy.

Yeah. That being said, this is David Green for Brandon buying houses like toys Turner, signing off. You're listening. to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online.

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