BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 353: Turning $5k into $5k/Month and Retiring at 40 with Tim Rhode

Episode Date: October 24, 2019

“Trading up” to successfully retire financially free at 40! On today’s show, Brandon and David interview retired real estate broker Tim Rhode, who explains how he was able to buy great deals and 1031 exchange them into financial freedom! Tim shares some fantastic advice on playing great financial defense to achieve an early retirement, crushing it in real estate sales, and locking up deals during his first conversation with sellers. Tim also shares how knowing his market led to him making hundreds of thousands buying land in the path of progress, how to build a “fulfillment triangle," and how he recognized the market turning in 2006 and cashed out before losing money. Tim has a huge heart, is committed to helping others get out of the rat race, and shares some incredible advice on how to do so. Make sure you listen for his description of the several levels of financial freedom and his belief that those who make it to the top of the mountain should throw down the rope for the rest still climbing. Download this one today! In This Episode We Cover: Levels of risk tolerance Delegating things you're not good at How he got into real estate sales Playing great "defense" Not caring about what others think How he invested everything left over that he didn’t spend How he bought his first property—a triple wide mobile home—for 50 cents on the dollar Using his influence as a broker to get great deals before they hit the market How he bought land in the path of progress How he exchanged several good deals by “trading up” into a triple net lease commercial property out of state His philosophy on timing markets His “fulfillment triangle” The power of the 1031 exchange Which houses he flipped and which he kept How he retired at 40 years old The multiple levels of financial freedom The financial freedom principles he teaches in his non-profit Where he believes we are in the current market cycle And SO much more! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Podcast 326: Health, (Big) Wealth, and Total Accountability With David Osborn, Pat Hiban, Tim Rhode (and Josh!) Firestarter BiggerPockets Wayne Dyer Tom Hopkins Zig Ziglar BiggerPockets Bookstore GoBundance BiggerPockets Pro Email Us: [e-mail] Check the full show notes on BiggerPockets: http://biggerpockets.com/show353 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 353. I took the five grand, bought the property and the path of growth, and exchanged it into the very easy. All I get is 12 paychecks. We paid your taxes. We paid your insurance and a 1099 per year from them. All tax-free because of depreciation. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio.

Simplifying real estate for investors' large, and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on, everyone? It's Brandon Turner, host of the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, Mr. David Green. David Green, welcome to the show again, buddy. What's up? What's up, Amigo? I had a really good weekend. I actually was the keynote speaker at a real estate conference in San Ramon. And then I went to my brother-in-law's wedding.

And I have two flips that we put under contract today with my partner. So those should both be pretty good in the Bay Area. So I'm on a roll. You're on a roll. That's awesome, dude. I got a triplex under contract last week. But I'll tell more about that later in the story and how that's going to get me a Tesla, which is kind of cool.

I tell that story on today's interview with our guest, Tim Road. So Tim Road was on the show back on episode. I don't remember. But it was one that we did like a, I don't know, we'll see if Kevin can't find the message. Kevin's our producer. He's awesome. But back when we did that group interview with like Josh and David Osborne, Tim, Pat Hybin. Yeah, and you and me on stage, we did a live show.

Anyway, Tim was one of those. He was a get the goods in the wood guy, get the goods in the woods guy, if you remember back then. But Tim has an amazing story. And Tim was actually one of your mentors early on, as David tells the story today on the show as well about how he got you in the real estate. So Tim's also a real estate, an amazing real estate agent, a real estate investor and was able to retire from his real estate at 40 because of how awesome he did it and then continued to do some more real estate investing.

And he tells a ton of great stories today, especially my favorite thing is when he tells a story of how to go, how we went from $5,000 in cash to making $5,000 a month in cash flow. That story was just fantastic. And we cover a lot of like intricate parts of that, but that perfectly important. to everybody listening today. If you're into financial freedom, you're going to love it. So without though further ado, well, with some more ado, let's get to today's quick tip. I don't know why that's so funny.

Today's quick tip. We got a new thing launched at bigger pockets and it's really expensive. It's F-R-E-E. It's free. It's called the fire starter. And here's the idea behind the fire starter. It is a, I mean, I guess you could call it like a goal tracker, action-taking tracker. or whatever. It's called the Fire Starter. It's a tool to help you reach your goals.

So if you want to become financially free, it's the perfect way to track your progress and hold yourself accountable. So it's going to help you reach your big goals, like your 90 day goals. If you're using the 90 days of intention journal or the intention journal, help you set up daily habits so you can track your habits that you're doing regularly. So again, it's free. You're going to love it. Just go to BiggerPockets.com. Log into your account. And it's right there on your dashboard. So if you like go to your dashboard on Bigger Pockets, you're going to find it under that section that says, my goals. So check it out. But again, quick tip is the fire starter.

And there'll also be a little bit more information of it on the show notes for today's show at BiggerPockets.com. So I show 353 in case you have any questions. We'll put a little bit more information there. Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle, active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress? Here's a better question. What if you could buy brand new construction homes, 10% below market value in the best markets

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If you want to do the same, visit BiggerPockets.com slash retirement to learn more. Here's the thing about traveling. If you buy food at the airport, a burrito, salad, bag of peanuts, you start wondering if you should have opened a savings account for snacks. So wouldn't it be great if you could actually earn money while you're traveling? Well, you can. Airbnb has something called the co-host network. While you're away, you can hire a vetted local co-host with hosting experience to help

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Cost segregation guys is the number one firm nationwide, specializing in identifying these faster depreciating assets in your property. They've completed tens of thousands of studies across all 50 states from remote cabins to apartment complexes. So if you own investment property, this is a no-brainer. So visit Costsegregationguise.com slash BP for your free proposal and find out how much you could save this tax season. All right. And now it's time for today's interview with Tim Road. Let's get to it. All right, Tim, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast, man. Good to have you here. Hey, thanks for having me on, guys. I am so looking forward to this. Two good friends. talking real estate, what can be better?

What can be better? Well, the last time we had you on the show, it was part of a group. It was back when we did the episode we recorded live, and you were on a panel of different individuals along with David Osborne, Pat Hybin, and Josh Dorkin was there, me and David, and I'm probably forgetting somebody else, but it was awesome. But people wanted to know more about you. You were the only one of that group that had not yet been on this show,

and you're like a legit real estate guy. And so I know I'm excited to dig into your story a little bit, because I know a lot about your, you know, your skiing and your goods in the woods and your, and your charity work. But I don't know more about your real estate. So let's start at the very beginning. How did you even get into this world of real estate investing? Well, it started because I, gosh, when I was a kid, I loved Monopoly.

I loved just, you know how some of us are born with that entrepreneurial spirit and just kind of see the whole world different? So I guess it started at a very young age. but I got off to a rough start, barely graduated high school, never went to college in that 25. I'm a part-time grocery clerk painting addresses on people's curbs to buy diapers for my two small kids. Then I started listing and selling real estate and was investing, gosh, I guess I started investing back when I was a grocery clerk before I started listing and selling. So at a tender young age I was buying properties.

So why real estate at like a young age? Like what got you into that? Like did you have family into it or anything like that? Yeah, my mom listed and sold and she took me to a Wayne Dyer event and a Tom Hopkins event. These are old, you know, like Zig Zigler and stuff. This was back in the 70s. So yeah, I started going to events like that and learning just the things that you could do to earn a good living and invest wisely to get somewhere with your life. So I think I really like that

that whole, if it is to be except to me concept of how to do things after being a union grocery clerk. You know, we haven't mentioned this yet, but Tim here is actually the very first person that got me introduced to real estate. Like I literally would not be on this podcast. I would not have investment properties. I would not be an agent. If it wasn't for Tim, who reached out to me while I was working at a restaurant and said, hey, I heard that you're really good and you've got some talent. Do you want to come prospect for me? And I said yes, because I knew that Tim Road was the guy from all the commercials that played. Like he used to have this commercial as a real estate agent, which is what he got into after being a grocery clerk, that they would

sing, call Tim Road and start packing. And so I didn't know what a prospector was. I just know like when Tim Road says, do you want to do this? You better say yes. And that is literally how I got my first experience with cold calling, with understanding real estate. Tim would have me running around and looking at pre-foreclosures and talking to people knocking on doors, having difficult conversations with someone who's been like hounded by creditors and trying to buy their house so we could flip it before the bank took it. It was my first exposure before bigger pockets before anything. And then Tim really stayed in touch with me over the years and just encouraged me to keep my rentals. There really was nobody else that I had to keep me in this game. And Tim was the guy

that basically had me in it. And then he got me into go abundance and, you know, things kind of took off from there. So Tim's one of the people that I look at, like my first and my biggest mentor that I ever had, the most influential person. And I'm really curious to him if you can share how you went from a high energy grocery clerk that was just like blowing through a very low paying job into taking that same energy and applying it into real estate sales where you made all the money that you then invested. Yeah, that's a really good question, David, because, you know, a lot of us find ourselves, we know that it doesn't fit where we are. And it's like we haven't put the key in and turn that lock.

And so here I am a grocery clerk and a very personable person who cares about people, who likes people, who likes coming through. And it just didn't, the job didn't fit. So I get into real estate. And the first weekend I'm in real estate, I hold an open house, I sell it. And those people need the list a home. That's awesome. And then I take some buyers out and I sell them a home.

And it's like, oh my goodness, it is on. I found, you know. So I'm trying to just calm down because I just made more that weekend than I did in the last six months as a grocery clerk. So then my mind just starts, the wheels are turning. And in high school, I never paid attention because I couldn't understand the periodic tables. I didn't understand algebra and trigonometry, but I learned basic English, basic math, the things, you know, just the basics of everything, I guess.

And then looked at what did the grocery business do right? They delivered Sunshine Service. That was their motto. So when I sold real estate, I was going to work harder than everybody else. I was going to learn everything I could do about the business. And so I just concentrated on coming through, for people. And then very early on, back before anybody had teams, I got an assistant. I paid Diane

McClanahan, $48,000 a year and four weeks paid vacation, my second year in the business, to manage my escrows and basically manage the team. So I could go out and do what I did best, talk to a lot of people and list homes right. And my income went from, by the way, I was making 60 grand when I promised her 48. and my income went to like 170 the next year and I never looked back and just always had people around me doing all the things I suck at so I could get out and meet with people come through and then also go out and look for properties for myself. That's cool. Yeah, you know, like that concept of always trying to find other people to do the things you suck at is one of those, like it seems so obvious to people who are successful, like, you know, because I feel like that's, But when you're starting out, like, that's not obvious. Like, you don't know that.

Like, I always learned growing up, like, work on your weaknesses. Like, if you're not good at batting, bat more. Like, you'll spend hours at the dugout batting or whatever. I don't know the phrase because I quit baseball eventually. But, like, when I look at successful people, they're not out there going, you know, well, I'm not very good at this. So I better get better at it. Better go take a class on accounting so I can become a better accountant for myself. Instead, they're like, how do I, how do I do this?

In fact, I heard once an interview with a billionaire and the billionaire had mentioned, or I, I guess, I heard somebody who told me the story of a billionaire who said that their number one skill in life is being a quitter. Everything they do in life, they just try to quit because they say, I want somebody else to do it who's better than I can. So I'll build something and then I want to quit that position as soon as possible so somebody else can come and do it better than I can move on to the next thing. I thought that was such a cool kind of way of looking at that. Yeah, it's a brilliant concept. And Jeff Hoffman's book, Scale, talks about you master something and then you find somebody under you. and hopefully at some point the business becomes large enough

where that somebody over you is supervising that and you're on to the next business. And that's David Osborne 101, by the way. Yeah, yeah, that really is. Yeah. So, all right, so let's talk about your real estate investing. So you're making good money as an agent and there's a lot of people listening to show right now

that are making good money as an agent or as a dentist or a doctor or as a, you know, doc worker, whatever. They're making decent income. How did you translate that income into real estate investing? Like, were you buying rentals, were you flipping houses. What were you doing there in the beginning? Yeah, I was really aggressive.

I like to use the word risk tolerance level. And it's good to know your own. My 36-year-old son has a very low risk tolerance level. And I begged him and got him into a few investments of Andrew Cushman's, which worked out really good for him. He's very happy. I had an extremely high risk tolerance level. I'd go out and find properties.

I had no money to buy and write long as well. grows and then just tell myself, all right, you've got to make an extra 25 grand in the next four months and then just bust it and sell a few extra homes and make an extra 18,400 and put, you know, 4,600 on a credit card and and eat mac and cheese and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for three months. Oh, darn the roofs out and get, you know, just hustle, hustle, get back to par and and then go do it again. And I just never had any savings or any, you know, it was just for probably 15-year period,

just always betting on my ability to earn and our ability to tighten our belts if we needed to, but just kind of had the hammer down. You know, and I never knew why. It just felt it was just a fun game. Yeah. You know, one thing you just mentioned, Tim, was what you call playing defense, that you live beneath your means.

Can you share a little bit about what your mindset was once the money started rolling in from real estate sales? I mean, we kind of skipped over that, but you were just the man in Mantica. You were, I mean, to this day, people talk about you like Babe Ruth. There will never be another Tim Road, how many houses you sold. I'm pretty sure you were selling houses and you didn't even know it was your listing. You were just like fanatical about that. Like if somebody had said, hey, we're thinking about selling.

We called Bob. You're like, stop right there. I'm coming over right now. I got the paperwork. Right. I've got stories. Just wait, wait. Have you signed the contract yet?

I'll be right over. So fearless. Make sure Carol's there too, please. Yeah. So tell us, as the money starts rolling in from that, how did you manage to stay beneath your means? What motivated you and what was your mindset? David, this is a huge, huge point in all of this.

You know, this is the wall. barber, the millionaire next door, you know, defense wins championships. And what I did that few others did, and I call them the One Life ABCs, my income went up drastically from grocery clerk to successful agent to very successful agent. I played ironclad defense. I drove the same car for 10 years for like three decades in a row. I've never worn bling or cared about what anybody thought. and just never, I never bought listings.

I never spent a ton on, when you spent good money on marketing, I shouldn't say that. But I just didn't have, I didn't care what anyone else thought, what Madison Avenue thought. And while my income went from like, you know, 30 to 60 to 170 to 325 to 400,

never made a ton of money. My expenses went from 20 to 25 to 30 to 35 to 40 to maybe 60. So we have a huge gap in left to invest. And I just invested wisely in what I knew best, local real estate from, you know, 1985 to 2005 when I sold into our Cali craze and cashed out at a pretty darn good time. That's awesome. So you were buying single family houses or rental, I mean, multifamily, what were you buying? I started off with single families, and I bought like a first thing I bought was a triple wide mobile home

while I was a grocery clerk and it was a bank repo. It was worth like 40 grand. I picked it up for 20. I needed 10 grand down. I had five. I borrowed five from Merv King, the grocery manager. And I kept that for a rental when I bought my first single family still is a great. grocery clerk come to think of it. And then right when I got into real estate, we moved two blocks

away and I kept that one for a rental. So then I started buying anything I could get my hands on. Single family, duplexes. I did really well with a few properties with land in the path of growth. And one one story I like to tell is how I turned 5,000 into 5,000 a month over two real estate deals. Oh, please tell that. Yeah. So at this point, I'm a real estate broker, which is a really good gig to be. And, you know, they say realtors find the best deals. Well, you're right.

You're in the trenches and you have your eyes wide open. So I had a really good name for myself. And people would call me up. And I had a very good trust in the community. And so I'd come to their house and I'd say, I could wear two hats. I could either list your home and get you top dollar, or I could. just buy it and make it a very easy deal. But once I list your home, I can never buy it because I have a fiduciary duty at that point. So I had this couple say, we just want to, all we need

is like five grand and we can go buy this new home. And we just take over our home subject too. So I did. I paid them five grand. I took over their home. I put a tenant in there. I kept it for a year. This was right, and they did wonderful because it was right at a time when our market was starting to take off and they bought a new home that went up drastically for them. So it was great for them. So I bought it and a year later, I exchanged it into a piece of land in the path of growth that had been on the market for probably eight years on a busy street called Louise Avenue right near I-5, which runs from Mexico to Canada. And there was a Hampton Inn coming in right next to it and a strip center coming in on the other side of it. And I knew this from following what's going on

in my city and knowing the real estate and stuff. So its time was right. And I went and bought it from the owner. I paid them the $120,000 down that that property had appreciated over the last year and a half, believe it or not, because we were in that kind of a, how can I put it, just hitting hot market. And land and the path of growth wasn't worth it, wasn't worth it, wasn't worth it. Hampton Inn's coming in, strip center's coming in, boom, it's worth way, way more. So I take that 120, I buy that piece of land. I sold the piece of land three years later that had a whole piece of crap house on it that I had a tenant in it, that covered the payment, and then I sold it three years later for a million 80.

And I'd bought it for 360. Wow. Yeah. So what year was this at, Tim? This was between like I probably like 2001 to 2004. Just think of that time in Mantica. It was like 15 years ago. Yeah.

It was a little bit more than it is now. Yeah. So actually that piece that they never did anything with that piece of land. It's still sitting there. It's fascinating. Really? They missed their time. Yeah.

And they tried to end this good piece of this story. They wanted to back out. And when I first went into escrow with them, they wanted a long escrow. I said, fine. Just go hard with a $100,000 non-refundable deposit after 30 days. And I'll give you like an eight-month escrow. whatever they wanted because they wanted to do their due diligence. And in doing their due diligence,

I think they found out a couple more restaurants or hotels were coming in. And they decided not to do it. And they tried to back out and we're going to lose their $100,000 and went through with the deal. And I'm so glad I said large deposit non-refundable. Anyway, so I exchanged that property into a building lease to AutoZone in Knoxville, Tennessee, that counting my payment, you know, my mortgage pay down every month is $5,000 a month. And so I took the five grand, bought the property and the path of growth and exchanged it into the very easy. All I get is 12 paychecks.

We paid your taxes. We paid your insurance. and a 1099 per year from them. All tax free because of depreciation. Boom, is this a great country or what? I love that story for a couple of things. I want to illustrate a few points in here for people who maybe didn't understand a couple of concepts.

A couple things. First of all, subject to. So you said you bought that very first property, $5,000 down subject to their existing mortgage. Can you explain what that means? That means I basically just started writing checks and took over their loan. Yep.

Yeah. And just got their address of where, just got their payment stickers of where they're making their checks. And it started coming from T&T enterprises instead of Joe and Betty Martin. Yep. So subject two is a popular.

It used to be a lot more popular than I feel like it is today. I don't know why that is, but it seems of kind of like not as popular. But it was super, it still works. I hear people still doing it today. There are some risks, of course, with it. So people are going to go do it.

Make sure you look those up. Like the bank might freak out. and not like that. But, you know, there's ways of things you can do. There's reasons that people still do it today. So anyway, subject to investing, very cool. And then you went and bought land. Now, land doesn't cash flow.

I mean, like, unless you're renting it, right? But like land. So you bought that almost as a speculation, right? Like, was that worrisome to you or you just knew like this is going to sell for a lot more later? I'm getting a great deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The really great concept, Brandon.

And that was one of two deals like this. I did. David Green, I don't know if you remember a piece of property owned out on airport with Dick Prada. It was three and a half acres out near the hospital out there where the golf course, you know, like west of town. And that was another deal like this where I bought that in the 90s just waited for the path of growth to come my way. And I bought it for $150,000 and sold it 12 years later for one. 1.2. Wow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So these were just, you know, long-term plays, just knowing your area. And guys, there's times in the cycle. And, you know, there's times when no one to hold them, no one to fold them. And I'd really like to talk about cycles because that's played such a huge part in, you know, my career was, you know, here I am a very successful person. but we're talking decades. And it's a marathon, not a sprint. Well, what I'm hearing you say is you were continuing to journey income working.

You didn't say, I got some investment property. I'm just going to quit and I'm going to go relax on the beach. You kept grinding. You kept mastering your craft. You excelled in selling homes. You built a team. You had an assistant. And then rather than putting pressure on yourself to just invest all that money in anything,

you strategically picked the stuff that you felt were. your home runs and you held them until it made sense to sell it. And then you were always trading up. That's another principle I'm picking out of this is you, you took your money and you put it into another good deal. You didn't have to do 20, 30 deals a year. You could do one deal a year maybe. And then eight, nine years later, it's gone up in value. So you sell it. You trade into something. And you just started with this snowball with every single move just got bigger and bigger and bigger to you had a really big snowball. If that's pretty accurate to how it happened, tell me what your mindset was when it came to knowing when to hold them and when to fold them.

Yeah, there was a lot of different things going on because into all of this, we're down in Mantica in the Valley and Tina and I had a dream since we met each other in 1990 that someday we, I'm looking out at you guys, it snowed last night. And there's these snow-covered hills and the water's coming off my roof and the trees are changing. And it's just this magnificent view. And someday I knew I'd be sitting here having this conversation. And I'm down there in Mantica, just working my game and sharpening my saw. Just like, you know, that's why tribe of millionaires is so important because I was sharpened in my saw.

You guys know who Tom Ferry is. I was in a mastermind with Tom back when his goal was to get his first credit card. You know, so I was doing this stuff back in the late 80s and 90s, way back when, same kind of thing. learning from people outside of my area. Best practices for what I'm doing. Best practices for life, for living a full life. Best practices for taking the money I'm making and make it work for me.

So I freaking get somewhere, you know? So just my mindset was just constantly learning and honing. And then a very important piece of all this is are you in what I call the One Life fulfillment triangle where your passions meet your talents where there's opportunity. And let's talk David Green as a cop and Tim Road in the grocery business. No, we're not. Okay. And Brother James selling cutco knives.

He loves selling cutco, but he's a musician motivator. That's our fulfillment triangle. Look at Greenie now. He's thriving. And I've been thriving in these different incarnations, one after another, for the last 20 years because I've had the luxury of becoming financially free young. So my point is, if you're not in that fulfillment triangle, where your passions meet your talents, where there's opportunity in the marketplace,

if you're not currently in that, do what David Green did, do what I did when I was a grocery clerk. F and fix it, you know, find a way to fix it. So the fulfillment triangle, passion meets talent, that means opportunity. Can you explain a little bit like for I mean there's there's passion but a lot of people out there saying well yeah, you know, I'm not really sure what I'm passionate about or I'm a lot of things. How does somebody find that passion and then actually get good at it? I guess I want to just kind of dive into this because I love this idea of fulfillment triangle. So how does somebody find that passion?

Um, you go inside and you do the tough inner work to figure out who in the heck am I at my core. What do I like and what don't I like? David's more of an introvert. I'm more of an extrovert. David's numbers and details and stuff like that. I delegate all of that. So it's knowing who you are and what you like. And then where will I fit?

What could I wake up every single day thinking and they pay me to do this? And by the way, there's also patience. There was a time when I still was listing and selling real estate and I wanted to be up here getting the goods in the woods. and start in the next phase of my life. And I had to remain where I was because my daughter was a junior in high school. And I owed it to my family.

You know what I mean? So there's times when you're still holding them, not folding them. It's not time to sell the wine yet. And you need to just knuckle down and fight through a tough period. But while you're doing that, you're juggling the next incarnation and making that happen. And that's the hard part. And that's the working extra.

Yeah, that's something we don't talk about enough in real estate because it's not a very sexy term. That's patience. Like the fact that, I mean, you've been doing this for a long time. And you have an amazing life today and you have got amazing, like, charity that you work with and you have all these great stories. But they came from decades of hard work. And you mentioned, you know, especially that deal that perfectly illustrated the $5,000 to $5,000 a month. Like, that wasn't overnight. And it probably wouldn't sell a book if you called it $5,000 to $5,000.

$5,000 a month over the course of two decades. Like that wouldn't be a sex save a term. But that's the truth of what real estate oftentimes is. We buy stuff. We hold it. We exchange into bigger properties. And then we hold those for a little while. Yeah.

And I think like everything else, there's, I have this concept of, of, there was, when we were kids, there were these balsa wood propellers or balserwood airplanes that have these rubber band propellers. Do you know what I'm talking about, Brandon? Yeah, yeah. Yep. Okay, so you put it together and if you wind it a few times, it goes right in front of you and falls at your feet. If you wind it more, it goes across the room, 10, 15 feet.

If you keep winding it and winding it and winding it and giving it one more wind, it soars beautifully. And the challenge is, is this is like a lot of things in life. People want things handed to them. And they think it's going to be easy. And they just wind their propeller a few times and get full. frustrated because they don't get results or they wind it pretty good and get decent results. And if you just dig a little deeper and wind it, whatever it is for you, wind it a few more times, you're going to find amazing results.

Yeah, that's really good. So to mention one more thing I wanted to do before we move on, you turning that $5,000 into $5,000 a month, you said you exchanged it. I'm assuming, are you talking about doing a 1031 exchange? Is that how that works? Correct. Yeah, both of those deals were a 1031 exchange. All right, so you can explain what is that?

So, well, I did twice where I would have paid taxes on from the difference between the 5,000 and the 125,000 less sales costs on the first deal. And I would have paid the difference between the 360 purchase price and the million 80 on the second deal. And those would have been hundreds of thousands in taxes I would have paid. And I've delayed those. those taxes until this year I'm finally going to sell that property 15 years later and I'll make around $800,000 net after all of a sudden done. And I may just pay the tax. I may exchange it

again. There's things called opportunity zones. I'll look at that opportunity when it comes to me later this year or early next year. But a 1031 exchange is a good third level move to make once you go from small deals to big deals. Yeah, that's so cool. Yeah, there's a similar story that I'm in the middle of right now, but I'll tell it real quick anyway. So I bought an apartment complex for pretty much no money down back when I was 24 years old. Essentially what I did is I worked out a deal.

I did a lease option for the first six months with the sellers so that I didn't have to have any money down. And I saved the money during those six months that I was making them off the property to use as a down payment. So really I pretty much got it no money down. Then I sold that property for a, and I used a partner in that deal. I brought in my parents as partners. And I said, hey, if I can use your line of credit, I'll give you half someday.

So I used their money to rehab it. Anyway, sold it later on for, I think a profit of $250,000. Took that money, gave my parents their half, took my half and 1031 that into two different properties, a mobile home park that today I make a few thousand dollars a month off of. And then a property in Ohio. I just sold the property in Ohio, just like two weeks ago or three weeks ago. and now I'm buying a Triplex here in Hawaii that's going to cash for like $1,400 a month. That property is going to pay for my Tesla that I'm buying.

So essentially, like, I, it's the exchanging up. So now I make thousands off this mobile home park and I make enough for a Tesla payment on this, you know, local thing. And it all came from one deal two trades ago in a 1031. So it's just cool. Like, that's how real estate works. Yeah, there's a lot of different games you can play with it. And that's what makes it such a.

a fun thing to invest in. There's just, it's like a kid in the candy store. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why winding that propeller is so powerful. Because most people say, should I buy a house or a Tesla?

But Brandon Turner says, I will buy a house, exchange it into a bigger house, turn that into a hotel, and then that my hotel pay for my Tesla. And my next Tesla after that. And then my Ferrari and like everything else, right? Like,

that's the wise investor who continues to grow equity and manage their funds well, will have everything that the person who can't delay gratification will have, but that well will never run dry. They will be able to keep going to it to pay and fund the life that they want to live. Yeah. Yeah.

I read that in like, I think it was rich dad, poor dad. Maybe it was Cashful Quadrant, one of the early Kiyosaki books where he mentions his wife wanted some fancy, I don't know, Maserati or something that was cool back then. And she bought a rental property and it paid for it.

I remember at the moment like that, that just triggered in my head like, you can do that? You can buy an asset that pays for a liability. And so I've been wanting to Tesla for since they came out. But I refused to buy one until I could tell the story that I bought it using rental income. Because like I just, I have to do that like just because of Kiyosaki. So anyway.

Are you insinuating that that wasn't my original idea and that someone else had that thought first? Brandon, that sounds like blasphemy. No, not at all. Everything's your idea. I would assume you are the origin of every good idea in the world. And then everyone else just copies to you. That's what I usually assume. And then you just fail to give me credit when you quote.

Exactly. Well, that's awesome. Tim, I want to ask you something else really quickly. I know when I knew you and I was working for you, you were buying rentals and you were flipping houses and a lot of investors get stuck in should I flip or should I buy rentals? Tell me what your thought process was with doing both and how you made the decision on an individual property of what you're going to do with it. I think every property was different.

We just look at the opportunity for what made the most sense. for, you know, where we were at the moment because there was a time when we were listing, buying rentals, flipping, and then we quit listing and selling. So our income was predominantly what was already coming in as residual income and the flippers. So there was somewhere, in retrospect,

I probably wish I would have kept that I flipped, you know, 2000 to 2004. and then sold when I sold everything into the craze, 2005 to 2007. But you still use the profits from flips to fund the rentals that you ended up keeping, which you then exchange into bigger properties. They all sort of played a role in this really big, cool thing that you did. And I don't know if we mentioned it, but you retired at 40 years old. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And when I say retired, I was flipping a home a month. So if that's working, you know, and had rentals that I was managing, I retired from listing and selling at 40. And then kind of, so if you look at it in the five levels of financial freedom, I was probably at level three, level four, because I was still actively finding properties and stuff like that. Now I'm at level five and I haven't actively purchased a real estate property in 20 years. So why don't you explain that a little bit? What are your five levels of financial freedom? Level one is where typical American is in debt after their ears. I have no clue what they're doing.

Everybody around them is clueless. So party! Level two is just starting to figure this out, you know, are aware of people doing it. Maybe own their own home. Level three is I have a rental in place. Rental or two, I have my retirement in place. I'm doing the things that I know I need to do to be setting up a trust and insurances and stuff like that. Level four is well on your way to financial freedom.

You probably could turn your game board over, but you'd have to lower your lifestyle a bit maybe. And level five is, I've been here for some time. I'm getting the goods in the woods. I choose what I do daily. And that's one life fully lived and go bun and so. family and, you know, just fun stuff. So, and then level six I've been thinking about is when you hire somebody to manage all that for you and you're no longer even moving money. That's cool. People love to call real estate passive income, which is interesting because most of the

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your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash rookie. Just go to Indeed.com slash rookie right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. That's indeed.com slash Rookie. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, indeed, is all you need. If you think property management is expensive, try mismanaging a vacancy or an eviction or a maintenance issue that turns into a five-figure problem because no one caught it early. That's expensive. A good property manager isn't overhead. Their protection against small mistakes turning into big losses. And that matters more than ever in this economy. That's why I like mine. Unlike other property managers, Mind manages your property like an investment. They obsessively measure the things that

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to keep everything organized. Ready to simplify your workflow, book your free demo at bill.com slash bigger pockets and get a $100 Amazon gift card. That's bill.com slash bigger pockets. Can you explain? You mentioned One Life. I want to talk a minute about that. What is One Life and what do you teach in One Life? So I talked about the One Life Fully Lived triangle. One Life Fully Lived is a non-profit. You can learn more about us at one-lifefully lived.org. And it's where we teach people the inner core teachings of how to live your most fulfilling life possible. And I talked before about the one-life fulfillment triangle. And once again, that's figuring out where's your passions, meet your talents,

where there's opportunities for what you do in life. But it goes deeper in that. And we have like core four teachings of a roadmap, which is vision planning. Where am I going with all this? Relationships with myself, who's my posse, who's my mentors, finances. How can I master those ABCs I talked about. And wellness, how can I be healthy in my mind, body, and spirit to pull off this amazing life I've been blessed to live. So one life just helps people at all levels of mastery, dream, plan, and live their very best life possible.

That's cool. And who are you, who's your primary? Who are you targeting primarily? Because I know you're in schools. Is that right? Or is it younger people? Is it older? That's our challenge.

is everybody deserves one lifefully live. So our business model is we help people like the bigger pockets people, people who are on their way, well on their way and at a mastery level, we help you crush your life in those four areas of vision planning relationships, finance and wellness. So you're wealthier, healthier, happier, and get the great feeling of getting out of you and giving to help us lift those that never get this message.

And that's our primary mission, is helping those on the bottom end of the totem pole. My good friend Christopher Lockhead said at a recent GoBundance event in Austin, Texas, when you get to the top of the mountain, throw down the rope. What a great way to put it. And that's what one likes all about, is we're throwing down the rope of teaching what should be top. in school or should be taught by parents.

But unfortunately, most are on level one or at best level two of that financial, you know, and life skills knowledge level. So we want to change all of that. That's one life. Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. Yeah, it's, it's admirable because, like, so many people spend, I don't know, so much time thinking about how they can improve their own life and how they can improve

their own finances and their own wellness. And it's great. Like, we don't talk about the. a lot, but like when you get to that level five or living level level four, maybe it may be a little bit earlier, but like when you're no longer consumed by how do I pay my bills, you can start thinking bigger in terms of how do I help other people figure out how to pay their bills. But most people are too consumed with their own problems in life and looking down on rich people to ever realize like it may be maybe getting wealthier is actually the answer to helping more people.

Yeah. No, it's all a virtuous circle. of the better I do and enrich my own life and live my one life fully lived. And then I spread this vibe to my family, my community, and I bring others along with me. And then when I'm becoming and I am successful, I feel we have a moral obligation to get out of ourselves. And I call it the gift. and my life's been so enhanced by all the good work we're doing with one life. I got to say, I'm personally, I think I've had the biggest journey of anyone I've ever met

from the most selfish person you'd ever meet in their teens to the most selfless person you'd ever meet. And I say that humbly, but, you know, I just love to touch others now. And it's such a fulfilling gift to get to this place. and then learn how to give in your own way. There's no better gift. So get financially free everyone. There you go. I love it.

All right. Well, I want to move on to the next segment of the show to go a little bit deeper into some real estate. And that is specifically through our deal deep dive. Hey, it's Brandon. I want to take a quick break from this week's podcast to invite you to this week's webinar, which is how to buy your first, second, or third rental property.

Look, investing in real estate is like a moving, a train, right, a big locomotive. The most difficult part is getting it started. It's a lot of energy, but once you get going, it's kind of hard to stop, right? That's why in this free online class, I'm going to be walking you through exactly how to get that train moving, how to buy your first, second, or third, or and third rental property. So you can get that going, a life of financial independence. So what are we going to be covering? Things like how to get funding for your first deal, if you don't have a lot of cash. Three steps for finding great deals, three actionable strategies for finding deals that are hiding in plain sight

and a very simple step-by-step process that you need to be focusing on right now to get more deals. Now, this is going to be awesome, but it's also limited. So go to biggerpockets.com. slash one, two, three, webinar. That's biggerpockets.com slash one, two, three webinar

to sign up and get your spot. See you there. All right, this is the part of the show where we dive deep into one particular deal that you've done and kind of get to know about how you did it. So let's, you got to deal. deal in mind something that we can pick apart with a bunch of questions?

Yeah, it's a 450 East Sonoma. I send it to your producer. Oh, wow. We got address and everything. This is great. All right. So it's in Sonoma. No, no, no.

It's in Stockton, California. Oh, Stockton. Beautiful Stockton. Yeah, that's where I went to college. Nice. All right. Well, let's go through that. What was this property?

Like, what kind of property was it? It was a, it was a fixer upper. Okay. How did you find it? I was out doing comps. Somebody wanted me to buy a portfolio of their properties. This is like in the early 2000s. And I was out doing comps and seeing if that was a good deal or not.

And I see somebody with their back to me and it looked like a sombrero on their head working in front of their house. And I said, Signor, Abla English. And he said, I'm black, not Mexican. So I started off on the right foot. Yeah, I'm great. And I said, why are you fixing your home? He said, I'm selling it.

And do you guys want to keep asking me questions or how does that? Yeah, we will. Yeah, we will, but I want to hear the rest of this. Okay. So I said, so are you fixed? He said, yeah, I'm fixing it to sell it. I said, do you have a buyer? He said, I do.

I said, have you signed a contract? He said, I have not. I said, how much are you selling it for? He said 55,000. I thought, holy crime, any of this thing's worth more. I said, you haven't signed a contract. He said, no.

And I said, I have a contract in the car. If I were to give you $5,000 more, would you sign a contract? Because, well, the guy was kind of flaky, and my wife really didn't like him. Will you pay cash? I said, I will. And I put him in the car,

drove him over to his wife's, and signed the deal right there. Lots of good stuff there. have contracts with you. Yeah. There is, I love that you just went for it in that moment. I mean, there's no time to think there's no analysis paralysis. It's, I'll give you 5,000 more.

How does that sound? Okay, let me get the deal out of the car. I think we just, we overthink things so often. And that person was just like, I was happy with 55. I'll take 60 and boom. Yeah. Yeah. And there's just a lot of good.

I love that story. I'm out, you know, looking at other deals. I see an. an opportunity and I ask and I totally butcher it which is a great part of it which is if you know Tim Road 101 of course I did that and then I rebound and bond with the guy and get the contract signed right then I have contracts with me I go over to the house I have his wife sign it right then there's just no get the deal done but you're not leaving any space like this is something that I talk to my team about this all the time I know I'm interrupting your

deal deep die but I think it's important for people to hear. When we're training as police officers for how to control combative subjects, what we learn is that if you can manage the distance, you can manage the damage the damage. So the more distance that I let that suspect get from me, the more he can wind up to punch me or throw an elbow. If you keep that person really tight and close to you, there's only so much that they can really do to hurt you. It's not much. It's like grabbing or maybe biting or something. And the same is true in sales or in real estate. If you talk to someone and they want to sell you their house and they're like, yeah, let's do it. And you say, okay, I'll be back tomorrow to sign. The minute you leave, what they start thinking is

now their space is, can I call somebody else and see if they would pay more? Should I talk to my buddy and see if this is a good idea? Should I call my mom or my dad and see what they do? And by the time you come over tomorrow, they've got like 14 other pieces of input in their head that you got to start all the way over. And Tim, what you're describing is probably what made you so good at a lot of what you did is you did not give them the space to do that. You said, you want to get this done. Let's do it. And they're in a good mood and the contract is signed and everything's good. If you give people space, you can get hurt. Yeah. Another thing is, is you interrupt the flow. It was just a, I went off my instincts a lot. And yeah. And by the way, the reason I could go off my instincts was once again, decades of

hard work and winding my propeller and research. Yeah, yeah, this wasn't, I couldn't have done this my first year. There's no way. I didn't know those comps that well. This is another good reason. We talk a lot about specializing, especially in the beginning. I mean, obviously, you've been doing this for decades, so you know a lot of different types of real estate. But when you're in the beginning, like, you get really, really good at one specific thing so that way when those opportunities come up, you can make those split-second decisions because, like, you know, example, if you're only flipping houses in this market, you know what the buy-in for, you know what to sell them for. That's not that much to learn.

you can learn that in a few months. Then when those opportunities come up, you can make those split-second decisions. But if you're trying to learn everything in the world and never really get good at anything, you're just kind of a general at everything, then you can't make those decisions. Then you really do have to think about them

because you're just not good enough. You don't have the talent there as part of that fulfillment triangle. So just one more, I guess, thing to pull out of that. So how did you fund this deal then? You said 60,000 cash. Did you just pay then your own personal cash for it? Yeah, by then I had, you know, credit lines. and relations built up with, you know, right around that time with the land and the path of growth going way up.

I sold a guy's ranch and he netted 800 grand and he gave me that as a credit line at 6%. Oh, wow. Yeah, because it was good for him. He knew me, liked me, you know. So just built up relationships and had a lot of stuff like that. But there was one other concept I wanted to talk about that's like this is, you know, just what we're talking about here. Maybe you're really good at talking to people,

but you don't have money. Maybe you're not good at either of those, but you're good at behind the scene details. And I really like finding like-minded people who are on the same course. Maybe it's three of you in an investment club. Don't know what it is, but just finding people who are going to hold up their end

and they're talented and can help you do what you do better. And I love that concept. And I also had a concept for that concept. of what I look at when when those things come down and I hope I'm not taking up too much time, you guys. No, no, keep going. Okay. So the three things I look for for anything, whether I'm getting into business, whether

I'm investing with somebody, whatever it is, number one, are they competent? I don't care if they're honest if they're not good. So number one, are they competent? Number two, do I really like them and trust them? Because think about it, we're getting into bed, we're getting into a marriage. I better like you because I'm going to be talking to you a lot. And then number three, are you honest and trustworthy? And if you don't fit any of those three, I don't want to do business with you.

You know, so. But if you do fit those three and you have amazing talents that that fit what don't fit with me, let's find a way to play, you know. Yeah, that's cool. Okay, real quickly, back to this property in Stockton. What did you end up doing with it? Did you flip it? Did you keep it as a rental?

Yeah, I flipped it. I had my team fix it up. We had some concerns. There were some terrible farm smells we weren't aware of it. Yeah. But we fixed it up. You didn't have time to do the sniff check before you had that guy signed the contract in your truck. Yeah, there were things that with the railroad was pretty close.

There were just some disclosure things that I made sure, you know, put on there. Yeah. So what was the outcome then? I think I netted $52,000. after paying all the expenses. I sent that deal into your team. That's awesome. That's like 100%.

I mean, it's more than 100% profit. Well, I guess if you paid cash, it's about 100% profit. That's awesome. What lesson did you learn from this deal? Just making things happen, being out in the trenches and shaking trees, you know. And just being in a flow state and going with what roles and just. just taking that and driving away. Can you imagine driving back to my house an hour and a half later talking to my team with a signed contract?

Yeah. Boom. Freaking cut the animal over my back. It is. There's this thing I see in new investors all the time that I don't see in you, Tim. And that is a lot of new investors are just so timid. And not even new investors. Just investors in general.

People have been doing it for a decade. They're so timid and afraid. to make a decision or to make an offer to go after something, to have that conversation on the phone. People are so afraid of, you know, shooting their shot, like to go out there and get it, you know? Like, why are you not like that? How can somebody become more like you?

You know, this is a good point. I have a very high risk tolerance. But I went 98 and 2. Like I bought 100 properties and made money on 98 of them. And so I had really good instincts on when to buy. And I bet I had something in that contract. If I found something within five days, I could back out. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. So I have big cahones with an out clause. Yes. Yeah. And that's where a lot of, I'll be teaching webinars. I do a webinar every week on bigger pockets. And I'll be teaching.

And I'll say, you know, like I try to make an offer every single week. every week I make at least one offer. And if I stick to that, usually they, you know, one out of every few ends of getting accepted. And as long as I stick to the lead measure, right? And people will say, yeah, but what happens if you make an offer? And then the next week you make another one and both of them get accepted. Oh, no. Like, it's such a tragic thing.

And I'm like, okay, first of all, we have out clauses. Second of all, that's not a bad problem. I know. I know. What if you go on the price is right and you would have a Ferrari and a Lamborghini, but you can only pick one. What are you going to do? I can't invest in real estate. The taxes.

Yeah. Exactly. The taxes. Yeah. The maintenance. I can't get into it for that reason. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So anyway, I read recently in the book, Traction, they said it's more important that you decide than what you decide. And I really like that quote. You know, I don't, you can't take it obviously too far. But like the idea of like it's more important that you just make decisions in life and be bold and go after it than to just be scared and timid all the time and never take action at all. Yeah. I like that. But my mom had a line where she'd say, I've just decided.

And there were things like, and she was an alcoholic. And they were, you know, like she moved to Santa Barbara on a whim. And so there, you know, I, I, I had a lot of sayings in my head thanks to both parents, you know. But, but I think that like that measure twice cut once, you know, it's like I'm in, I'm in, I'm in, and I'm just scouting for why am I out? and I'd back out as stuff, you know. Yep. So, yeah. Yeah.

Cool. All right, dude. Well, let's get on to the next segment. That was really good. Deep dive. But now it's time for the fire round. It's time for the fire round. All right.

This is the fire round. This is the part of the show where we pull questions direct from the bigger pockets forums and we fire the match to you, Tim, to see if you can give some advice to some real estate investors on our forum. So number one, Charles from Bridgeport, Connecticut said I'm a young investor getting started. Should I try to buy my own home or should I just stick with renting? And then I've heard a lot about renting where you live and owning where you rent. Like what would what factors would you look at making that decision? I would,

there's a lot of different. You know, it's hard to say I don't know his employment, don't know much about him. But but something that might work for you is like a group home. I have a lot of young friends that do this, where they buy a home and have like two of their friends as their tenants. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a good way to start where you're in charge. And then, you know, something you could do off that is have somebody else come manage that home. You buy the next home with two more friends and that one's taking care of itself.

That is exactly what Tim told me like 18 years ago that I should do with the first house that I was going to buy. Yeah, before we called it house hacking. It was Tim Rhodes' group home. Look at Uighur, Diego. There's examples of this model all over the country now. So, Brandon, if I want to learn more about how to do this, how can I find out? Wow, David, thanks for asking.

So we just launched a book of Bigger Pockets, actually called the House Hacking Strategy on this very topic, inspired by this whole idea of buying, whether it's a house or a duplex, triplex, fourplex. Anyway, it's by Craig Curlup, and you can get it at biggerpockets.com slash house hacking or wherever books are sold, I think. At least I know it's going to be eventually at Amazon and Barnes & Noble. But right now I know for sure it's at biggerpockets.com slash house hacking or biggerpockets.

com slash store. With that, question number two. From Benjamin. Benjamin says, I am a college student looking to buy a triplex for a rental. I saved about 30 grand, which is enough to buy the property and cash. But it needs an additional 50 to 60K in renovation. Since I'm a student, I don't have regular income. How would you go about financing this rehab?

I would probably look for somebody in my world. Like I think, Brandon, you talked about your parents going in with you. And that might be a good way for them to. I'd also, if I was that person, take a really good look at the deal and make sure the whole thing makes sense. because a lot of times what you think is a great deal is a good deal and good deals turn into bad deals really quick. Yeah.

Only do it exceptional and great. Yeah, I was going to say, if somebody came to me and I'm not saying, please don't everyone listen to this come to me. But if somebody came to me and was like, especially that somebody I knew had a relationship with and said, hey, I got 30 grand I want to put down on this property. Would you want to partner with me? I'll do all the work.

I'll do everything. I just need some more money for rehab. But I'm putting in 30 grand. I got skin in the game. I would have a very good serious conversation with that person. And because I'm an experienced investor, I'd be able to look at the deal and say, yeah, you shouldn't do this deal. And if it was good, I'd be able to say, yeah, actually, let's do this thing together.

It'd be fun. I don't have to do any work. I just got to put in some money and I'm going to make a good, you know. So, yeah, go to somebody who's more experienced. I love that advice and got some cash. It's perfect. I was going to say you could always just sell a kidney or something. That works.

Do the rehab with the money. And then if you make enough, you can just buy another kidney. The Tim Road method of like just put a really long closing on it. And I'm going to find a way to come up with that 50 or 60 grand. And could you exchange for the kidney. There you go. You could. The 1031 like.

Exactly. Like properties. That's like you're going for a liver or nothing. All right. Question number three. Hey, all. I'm moving. And I want to figure out whether I should sell or rent my house.

The property's been appreciating like crazy, but when I see the numbers, I would have negative cash flow every month if I held on to it. So would you ever hang on to a property with negative cash flow just hoping to gain an equity? It depends on how much the negative is, but if you can, if it's appreciating at a faster clip than what the negative is,

boy, I always tell people as much, much and long, if you can hold it, do it. That's my own thoughts. Many would say just sell it, move on, don't have any negative. But I held some properties with negative cash flows in a way appreciating market for a long time. And it turned out a good move. Yeah. All right.

That's a very good transition into question number four. So I know, Tim, that you kind of got out of the market in that little period between 05 and 07. So the question is, did you see any warning signs coming? What affected that downturn have on your investment portfolio? And how did you know it was time to get out? I'm so glad we got this question because I tracked trends because I listed and sold real estate and I had the multiple listing service access from 1990 till 2007. And I knew every time when it went up, when it went down, how many homes are on the market,

how many new listings, how many went pending, how many sold, how many expired. We'd do the tent because I was doing how much work am I doing versus the rest of the board. So from 90 to 97, I didn't buy much. From 97 to 2007, I bought a ton. Excuse me, until about 2006. And from 2005 to 2007, I sold 177

properties with 52 tenants right into our peak. And yes, I saw it coming because I was in the trenches and it was like a blow off top in the stock market. And the last two flips I had done, I didn't make a profit on. And I could just see the market sputtering. And, you know, you might want to get out a little earlier. I kind of slid into home plate very nicely. And it was really lucky actually. That's cool. Yeah, on that note, where do you think we are in the cycle right now? I think we have some legs to go, believe it or not. I keep hearing there's some people in my world that think it's run its course and by the end of the year it's going to hit the fans.

I think we're a good two to four years away. That's just mine. All right. David, where do you think we are? I think the same as Tim. I think like, you mentioned earlier, Brandon, you don't know why people don't do more subject to financing. I think it's because interest rates just keep getting pushed down. You don't need to take over somebody else's payments because you can get 2% lower on the interest rate if you go do your own thing.

And I think that that's fueling, I don't want to say a bubble, but it's giving you strong wins at your back. So if you think about right now, as interest rates go down, it makes the house you live in worth more because someone else can pay more to buy it and have the same payment because interest rates are low.

It also means that once you sell it, you can get a really low interest rate on your next house. the minute that changes, if rates go from 4% to like 6 or 7, now no one can pay as much for your house, so it's worth less when you sell it. And when you go buy a new house, you lose your 3.5 or 4% rate, and you had to go in at 6, 6.5 or whatever. So no one's going to want to move.

And I think if that happens, that's when we're going to see the market really slow down and the only people that are going to be buying and selling are people that kind of have to, they move, they need a bigger house because they're having another kid, traditional reasons, not just these moves that we make right now because they make sense. So as long as interest rates stay low, I don't see anything changing.

But that's one of the markers that I'm looking for is when I see rates start inching up. That's what I'm going to expect the market to start to slow down. All right. Good answer. All right. Well, before we get out of here, that is the end of the fire round. Let's get to the world famous. Famous for.

All right. This is the last segment of the show where we ask our guests to answer the same four questions that we ask every guest to answer. But before we get to that, Let's hear from Jay Scott about what's going on this week over on the Bigger Pockets Business Podcast. Hey there, Brandon and Bigger Pockets Podcast listeners. This is Jay Scott, your host of the Bigger Pockets Business Podcast. This week on the business podcast, we interview Brendan Kane, the author of the book, One Million Followers, How I Built a Massive Social Following in 30 Days.

And he tells us just that, how he built his social media following of over a million strong in 30 days or less. and he tells you how you can do the same with your business and your brand. So tune in this week on the Bigger Pockets Business Podcast. Now, back to your famous four. All right, thanks, Jay. And now on to the Famous Four. Question number one, Tim, other than your own, which I'll ask you about in a moment, but other than your own, would you have a favorite real estate related book,

something related for real estate investors? Yeah, it's an old classic, Fix and Ugly Homes for Cash by Jay. DeSima. You guys ever hear of that? Yeah, Fixer Jay. I've read a couple books of his. Yeah, they're good. It was just a great basics, how to, you know? So yeah. There you go. All right.

All right, cool. What's your favorite business book? I like the E-Mith because one life fully lived is the E-Mith for life. It's kind of like, you know, the inner core working. So I love the E-Met. I think it's amazing book. All right. Okay. I know you're going to love this question. What are some of your hobbies?

Just anything outdoors. And, you know, we talked about whether you're alone or with others. It's just there's no sound in life as rare and beautiful as the sound of the adult giggle. And when you're out getting the goods in the woods or whatever it is for you just enjoying, you know, that to me is, it's fulfillment in what life's all about. That's great. And number four, what do you think sets apart successful real estate investors from all those who give up, they fail, or they just never get started? I think to discern between a, I said it before, you can't have a good deal because it could quickly turn into a bad deal. So you've got to find only the great deals and the good deals. And the discernment, you know, in that is so important.

And that's the reason to hit your numbers and to do a lot of prospecting and wind the heck out of your propeller. Yeah, that's awesome. All right, Tim, this has been an amazing time. Can you tell us where can people find out more about you and your nonprofit? Yeah, please, first of all, read Tribe of Millionaires. You can see it off to the side here. That's our new book from my buddies at Go Bennance. Please check out One Lifefully Live.org.

It's my baby. it's my life's work. And if you want to support us, join the One Life community on Facebook. It's the number one, one life community on Facebook. And also, please come to one of our six events in 2020.

We're going to have One Life Thrive events all over the country. And please consider joining our contributor club, which is also on our website under support. And that way, we can get you coaches in real estate and our poor areas of teaching of vision planning, relationships, finance, and wellness, and help you crush your life so you can help us throw down the rope. Thank you. Awesome, dude.

All right. Well, thank you, Tim. This has been fantastic today. Really, really enjoyed having you learning more about your story and just hearing about how you're kind of giving back and helping people who maybe haven't even thought about financial freedom or about, you know, living their best life. because we only have one life, so let's live it right. And I love that you're teaching that. So thank you for joining us. Yeah, it's been my sincere pleasure.

And it was especially fun to be on with Greenie after, gosh, knowing him. Let's think about this. Half his life. So that's curry. Yeah. All right. Thank you guys. I appreciate you having me on.

And dream it, plan, live it. Check us out at one lifefully live.org. Thank you. Thank you, Tim. Thanks, Tim. All right. And that was an interview with Mr. Tim Road.

That was awesome. I see why he made such a big impact on you at an early age, David. Like that was really cool. He gets that financial independence, that financial freedom. As somebody who's not just like on the front end of it, but who has gone through the entire journey and see, and he can see it from a 40,000 foot level now, which is super cool to have those guys on the show.

Yeah, he's kind of the Barry Sanders of real estate. He walked in, he completely dominated. And then he just said at 40 years old, okay, I'm done. I'm just going to get out. He did it on, you know, his terms. I love, love, love the emphasis he puts on defense. Like if you asked him, he will tell you, I could have made all the money in the world. It wouldn't have mattered.

It only mattered that I saved money so that I could invest it, you know? The only metric that really matters is what you have left over to invest after you make all your money. Yeah, there you go. Very, very cool. Well, before we get out of there, we're going to add one more little segment of the show here, which I think we did once before, but we're going to try to make it a more regular thing. And that is to highlight some of our bigger pockets of pro members out there doing deals. So today I'm going to give you a quick story about April Childers or Childers.

I'm hoping I'm saying it Childers, right, from McEwen, Tennessee. recently did her first deal, a new construction deal. She bought a two-acre lot, split it into two, and then built a single-family home in one of the lots. Then she sold the second lot off. Purchase price, get this. You guys are going to love this. Purchase price, $65,000. Cash invested, $97,000.

Sale price, $243,000, sold in four days. And she also listed it herself because she decided to become a real estate agent. So very cool story. Congratulations, April on your first deal. And this is a reminder, everybody. Get out there. Get active on the forums. Every day, BiggerPockets, Pro members like April,

are writing about the deals that they're doing on the Bigger Pocket Success Story Forum. So if you are not on the forums, you should definitely be so. And also, if you want to be featured on this segment of the show, do me a favor. Write down this, ready? Write down the email address. Podcast at BiggerPockets.com.

If you are a BiggerPockets pro member, shoot us an email at Podcast at BiggerPockets.com with the subject line, pro deal, P-R-O-D-A-L. And give us the details, and we are going to feature one every week, a story about one of our members

doing an awesome real-say deal. So again, email is podcast to biggerpockets.com and put pro-deal into the subject line. And that's all I got. So, David, let's get out of here, man. This is David Green for Tim,

taking the Tim out of Timid Road and Brandon Tesla Turner, signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle?

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