BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 386: Starting Out With $200 and Investing for Profit AND Cash Flow With Marcus Maloney (Part 1, Pre-Coronavirus)

Episode Date: June 11, 2020

From "bad drug dealer" in his youth... to earning a master's degree, then jumping into real estate at age 36 and crushing his first deal! Today, Marcus Maloney shares his wild ride in Part 1 of two episodes this week. This one was recorded before the coronavirus pandemic, so we don't discuss that topic. Tomorrow, we'll dive into how Marcus pivoted to keep doing deals in these trying times. In this episode, you'll learn how Marcus used just $200 to launch his career, how he acquired nine rental properties, and how he's completed dozens of local (Phoenix) and long-distance (Chicago) real estate transactions. He also discusses the strategies he's using to generate leads, how he builds trust with both sellers and buyers, and how he works with acquisition managers, who take a cut of the deals they bring him. Plus—the guys have a great conversation about performance coaching and why the thing that's holding you back probably isn't something you're going to fix at a real estate boot camp. Marcus was nice enough to take some time out from riding his Harley to share some of his hard-won wisdom, so say hello to him on the BiggerPockets Forums, where he's a frequent contributor. And don't forget to subscribe to the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast so you won't miss the next show! In This Episode We Cover: How Marcus "flipped piglets" as a boy How a rescinded job offer led to him to pursue real estate The personal development he had to do to become a successful real estate investor Direct mail marketing Closing deals on the phone Attracting partners by creating valuable content Why Marcus lives in Phoenix but buys rentals near Chicago What separates successful "bird dogs" and wholesalers from those who give up And SO much more! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Bookstore BiggerPockets Podcast BiggerPockets Reviews SunTrust Wells Fargo Guild Mortgage Buildium Re-Leased Rent Manager Quicken Loans Cozy Performance Coach Jason Drees Performance Coach Phil Towle Check the full show notes here: http://biggerpockets.com/show386 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 386 part one of two. Guys, it's my whole approach is service. I want to make sure we provide service to our sellers, to our buyers. So if the deal don't make sense for them, don't do it. You know, don't do it. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com.

Your home for real estate investing online. Hey, what's going on, everyone? It's Brandon Turner, host of the Bigger Pockets podcast here with another amazing episode that we're going to talk about a ton of cool stuff with my friend, Mr. David Green. What's up, David Green? How you been? I've been pretty good, man. You're still working at home, I see, because your video looks like garbage.

Yes, it does. Just a plain wall behind me for a while. while we had my couch stood by TV and now it's a plain wall. I can't go to the office of that part stuff, but there's a lot of tough things going around right now. So all things considered, I have nothing. I can complain about all things considered.

Yeah, yeah, it's one of those, you know, first world problems, I guess. You got a plain wall behind you. You don't have the blurred background that I got.

Well, I would hate to compete with you for aesthetic things, right? Like, I have to let you beat me at one thing. And if it's going to be looks, I'm okay with you dominating there. Speaking of people who are dominating,

we have a great guest today. Marcus Maloney has put himself to, together a nice little business. Yeah, I'm learning from the best. Yes, he has. That's good. Yes, Marcus Maloney. Yeah, keep going. You're on a roll. Yeah. Let's see. So Marcus is a Phoenix wholesaler and flipper. He's also got some rental properties. He's kind of, I'm definitely adhered to this style a little bit more of you go find the lead and then you figure out what to do with it. You can wholesale it. You can flip it. You can keep it as a rental. When you become an agent, you can even put it on the market and list it. Because I know that lead generation is the most important part of making money in

real estate. I like having multiple exit strategies to do stuff. And Marcus has done exactly that. And he shares some really good advice for not only how to get the leads and then dispo them, but how to use other people's money while you're doing it. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, he talks about going from like a bad drug deal. He was like a bad drug dealer, he says, to getting started with like 200. Like, yeah, $200 when he started, guys. So like if Marcus can do this thing, you can do this thing. It's awesome. He talks about a virtual deal making as well, like how to do this long, long distance, which is kind of cool. We talk a lot about performance coaching

and how it kind of helped all of us get to the next level. And like Marcus is just like a cool dude. Like he drives a Harley. Like he's just like, he's just a cool dude. And by the way, this was recorded pre-COVID.

That's why part two is going to be tomorrow. We're going to do a follow-up. So nothing really changes from this episode. We just wanted to bring Marcus back tomorrow on the show to just find out like what's changed in his business. And some stuff did change. So be sure you're listening to Today's show. And then tomorrow listen to the next episode,

part two of this podcast. guest. Cool. And then you want to add there? Greenie? No, I think just so you guys are aware, Brendan and I are switching things up a little bit where we're interviewing the guests and then we're following back up with them to see what has changed either since COVID-19 hit or how their business has been updated because as you guys know, like business is a fluid thing. It doesn't just stay in one place. So we're trying to give you the perspective from the front looking forward and then the end looking backwards so that you get a better picture of how their business is operating as a whole. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly it. So,

Anyway, that's cool. Let's get on to today's quick tip. Today's quick tip. If you guys want to know about different companies that are in the real estate world, like different mortgage companies or maybe property management software or whatever, there's a lot of business out there. And you want like a nice, like, review about like how that company actually is. BiggerPockets actually now has a review site as part of BiggerPockets. Just because we want to help you guys out, be able to look for the good guys and the bad guys or from the bad guys. So go to biggerpockets.com slash reviews. Very simple. BiggerPockets.com slash reviews. learn more about things like SunTrust Mortgage, Wells Fargo, Guild Mortgage, Buildium, Released, Rent Manager,

quick and cozy, and a whole lot more. You can learn about a bunch of reviews of those different companies. So check it out, BiggerPockets.com, slash, reviews. Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle, active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress? Here's a better question. What if you could buy brand new construction homes, 10% below market value, in the best markets across the country without making real estate your second job. That's exactly what rent to retirement does.

They're a full-service, turnkey investment company handling everything for you. In some cases, investors get 50 to 75% of our down payment back at closing, plus interest rates as low as 3.75%. They've partnered with BiggerPockets for over a decade, helping thousands invest smarter. If you want to do the same, visit BiggerPockets.com slash retirement to learn more. A lot of property managers think their job is answering tenant emails and coordinating repairs. That's not the job.

The job of a property manager is protecting and growing your operating income and earning your trust while they do it. And that comes down to three numbers, occupancy, delinquency, and net promoter score. If those numbers slip, your income slips and your trust slips too. And most PMs don't hold themselves to performance standards. They focus on activity, not outcomes. Mind is different. They obsess over the metrics that actually grow your cash flow. Go to mine.com slash show me to see how mine performs

and get a month of management for free. Because if you're going to hire a property manager, hire one that manages your investment like an investment. Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle, active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress? Here's a better question. What if you could buy brand new construction homes, 10% below market value, in the best markets

across the country, without making real estate your second job? That's exactly what rent to retirement does. They're a full service, turnkey investment company, handling everything for you. In some cases, investors get 50 to 75% of their down payment back at closing, plus interest rates as low as 3.75%. They've partnered with Bigger Pockets for over a decade, helping thousands invest smarter. If you want to do the same, visit BiggerPockets. dot com slash retirement to learn more.

And yeah, I guess that's all I got. So let's get today's episode with Marcus Maloney. All right, Marcus, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast, man. Good to have you here. Thanks, Brandon. Thanks for having me. And thank you, David. Yeah, so this is going to be a lot of fun today.

So I know a little bit about you only because you write for the Bigger Pockets blog. I see your name around all the time. But I don't know your story. So I'm kind of excited to dig into that today. So why do we start at the beginning then? Like, how did you get into real estate? Well, I'll go back a little bit, Brandon. First of all, just letting you know, I grew up about 60 miles south of Chicago on a farm.

And my grandfather and my mother, what we had to do in order to get school clothes for the next school year was, you know, we had to, we would go to an auction. We would buy a small little piglet, and we would have to feed that piglet over the summer, make them as fat as possible, take them back. to the auction for the fall and see what kind of profits we make. And that's how we got our school closed. So I learned very early how to be entrepreneurial. And just from that, man, we kind of spawned and did other things. My mom started a nonprofit in Illinois. And that's really how I got started in real estate is because we were buying these properties and we were putting transitioning families into them. And I was doing human resources at the time. But I found myself constantly going out with the contractors and hanging out with them and checking up on the work and see how

things were going. And then while I knew that this was my actual mission, this is what I was supposed to be doing. And that's kind of how I got started in the real estate. But that took a backseat because my brother, who's four years older than me, he went to college. And everybody was like, well, Mark, you need to be like Mike. You need to go to school. You need to go to college. You need to get a degree. What are you doing? You're just bumming around. So, you know, I failed to the period. pressure and went got a college degree, got a master's degree, and not doing anything with it. Yep. So I found my own path, moved to Phoenix. And when I moved to Phoenix, I was promised the job. But once I got out here, they rescinded the office. So I had me, my family, we moved,

you know, 1,500 miles away. So I immediately had to get to work, you know, and I figured that during this time was the best time for me to really do what I wanted to do. Yes, I could go out and just get some menial job because I had a master's degree, but I really wanted what I wanted to do, which was my passion was real estate. So I started listening to bigger pockets. Actually, I was listening to bigger pockets on my drive from Chicago to Arizona. And that's how I found you guys. And I was like, man, you know what? I don't have any idea what they're talking about about direct mail and yellow letters and stamps and envelopes. But during that time, I just knew real estate was my passion. And I didn't have any money. So wholesaling was my entry into real estate.

That's awesome. All right. So you're listening to us and you got to that very first deal. And the first thing you did on your own there, what did that look like? Okay. So the first deal I did on my own was I did a small, I started with 200 bucks, Brandon. And I had a small $200 first premier credit card. And I said, you know what? Everything that I hear about, is just being consistent. So I would mail 10 letters a day, you know, handwrite them, put my own stamps on them, mail them every day. And then I got a call from a lady. And she had a single family house, but then it had a guest house in the back.

And I talked with her, negotiated, got it, got it for $50,000. I couldn't justify to rehab cost or anything like that. So I'm really just winging it. So got it for $50,000. and then I immediately posted on Craigslist. So you know how old this is. I'm talking about Craigslist. And honestly, it was about 10 minutes, 15 minutes later,

I got a message. Somebody gave me a call and they said that they would buy it for $69,000. So I'm thinking, wow, this is 19 grand right off the bat, you know, on my first deal and went through, I didn't know how to talk to the seller. I didn't know how to talk to the buyer. I didn't know if my numbers was right. I didn't have a title company.

You know, so right now I'm just flying by the seat of my pants, but I knew, hey, I got a master's degree. I could figure it out, you know, even though I'm not doing anything with the degree, I can figure it out. And lo and behold, we closed that. And it was $19,000. And my wife, she really, she really understood what I was doing. And then we just spawned from there. So are you saying that the key to getting your spouse on board of real estate is to bring home a check for $19,000 to start the conversation? That's right, man.

You got to have some money. When you got a wife like mine's, man, money talks. Everything else is nothing. I like that. You know, but it actually, I mean, it's a joke. But if you think about it, somebody was asking me, how do you get people to believe in the power of real estate when they're, when they're naysayers?

Like, David, how did you get people to believe in you? And I thought about it and I said, I really didn't even talk about it until I'd already done it successfully. They really couldn't deny what I was the power of real estate because I'd already own a bunch of rental properties and made a bunch of money and had a bunch of equity. and it had like, it had changed my life. I didn't have to work as much as other people did. And I think there's something to be said for before you try to win people over,

go do it, be successful and have a little bit of firepower behind you. Because I can see how, honey, I want us to invest in real estate and all the what if start in her mind. And then you put a check down. That probably quiet's a lot of those questions. Yeah. And not only that, David, remember, we moved out here. I didn't have a job.

She was really the primary breadwinner at the time. And it was like, okay, you got a master's degree going, go and get a job. And I was like, well, no, that's not what I want to do. if I wanted to just work, I could have stayed in Illinois. So it was really that paradigm shift. And that's when I started, you know, reading Robert Kiyosaki stuff. And I was like, okay, I'm just going to jump out here and do it. And at the time, I wasn't a young buck either.

Yeah. Hey, how old were you when you started that? I was 36. All right. That's good to hear because a lot of times I think on our show, especially we have a lot of, you know, like the 20-year-old, the 25-year-old. It's like, wow, look at this. And so, like, it's good to know, like, you can start. I mean, not like 36 is late in life, but you can start it later in life, you know, like, and it worked.

I mean, I've had people talk to me that are 50 years old, 60 years old saying, can I still do this? And my answer is usually, well, I started when I was 20 with no experience, no knowledge, no idea what I was doing at all. We didn't even have bigger pockets like we did today, didn't have podcasts, didn't have the webinars. And by 27, I was able to quit my job. So if I can do it in seven years with none of that, somebody who's 60 with all that life experience and all of that everything they've got bringing in table, yeah, it doesn't really matter what age you get in. it's doable and probably a lot faster than I did it. Now, before we jump into more of your story, that first deal was a wholesale deal. Can you explain what that is?

For those who don't know, maybe they're brand new to the podcast today, they're not sure what this is. What is wholesaling and how does that work? So basically wholesaling is you're leveraging the seller, actually. So what you're doing is you're marketing to a seller that is in some kind of distress situation. So they may be going through pre-foreclosure. It may be an absentee owner, which is a landlord who's

currently doing an eviction, you know, or somebody that's behind on tax liens. Actually, this property, this deal was a tax default deal. So I talked to the seller, said, told the seller, hey, we can pay $50,000 for it, put up the earnest money. So now we have control of that deal. And during that time, I had a 14 business day inspection period. So I had almost a month to try and find my back end buyer. So with that being said, that's when I posted a property on Craigslist, had someone to give me a call and now I just matched the buyer and the seller together. I had to spread in the middle, which was the assignment agreement. And then we went to the closing table and I got the $19,000. The seller was able to sell the property and the buyer was able to get a good deal.

Yeah. That's good. That's good. That wholesaling is a fascinating concept because you're, I mean, there's wholesaling almost any, any industry, right? You can go to China and buy toilets for $12 and then sell them to Home Depot for $40. And Home Depot tells them to you for, you know, And so like there's a wholesaler in the middle of a lot of different businesses. This is just real estate. Now there are, and we are not lawyers. We're not going to go into depth in what the right and wrong way. But just understand if you're listening to this and you're like, that sounds amazing.

There are legal ways to do this and there are illegal ways to do it. And depending on what state you're in, this different states have different rules. So just make sure you guys do your homework and make sure you're not doing anything wrong. The illegal part usually comes from practicing real estate without a license. And some states define wholesaling as yes, that is. And only a couple do that are that I know of that are really strict on it. But even people that people are still wholesale. there. So again, there's ways to do it. There's ways around the rules. You just got to make sure you're doing it right.

And to make sure that I was doing it right, Brandon, I went out and I invested my time, energy, and money. And I got my real estate license. That way, I wouldn't run into any roadblocks, you know, because I always, again, I had family. So I didn't want to go to jail. You know, that would, that wouldn't be the right way to start off my life here in Arizona, you know. But there was one key thing that you said earlier in the conversation and you were talking about some self-limiting beliefs. Right. That was me. I was like, I'm 33. You know, the people that I hear on bigger pockets, you know, they're in their 20s, you know, am I too old? And then you have the young people that say, am I too young? You know, so just letting people know, hey, you just got to quiet that

that noise that's in your head and get out there and get started. Well, a lot of the other noise that you hear is I'm not ready yet. People think they got to build up a buyer's list and they got to have like a lot of pieces in place. So when they get the deal, it's all lined up. But that's really not how most success works in business or being entrepreneur. What you did was you went and found the deal and then you scramble to put all the other pieces together. If you had waited until you had a list of buyers from Craigsys before you went looking for the deal, you never would have ever got anywhere.

And I really like to highlight that part because so many things in life work that way. You don't know what step three is going to be until you get to step two. You have a very hazy idea what step two is going to be when you're on step one, if anything. But you feel the motivation to move along. once you start the process. Like once you had that deal, you felt, man, I got to go find a buyer. Where am I going to look? Okay, I know people look on Craigslist.

I start talking to my friends. Maybe you went to a real estate meetup and you told people, hey, I got a deal for, you know, whatever it was, $65,000. Who wants to buy this thing? And then you realize, oh, that worked. I could do that again? Where else could I do something that's just like that? And that's really like how you build up a business and a system.

It is. And I always tell people, you know, it's not just perseverance and tenacity, but you got to have faith. I had to believe that I was able to. do this. You know, that was one of the things. I had these self-limiting beliefs, but I was like, you know what, I'm just going to throw caution to the wind and I'm just going to get out here and do it. And if I fail, so what? I can fall back on this master's degree that I'm not doing anything with, you know, so I really had to jump out there and take that leap of faith because again, you know,

I had a five-year-old, a six-year-old, and a 13-year-old plus my wife. So everyone was looking to me like, hey, you better make this work. That's awesome. Okay. So what came next? So after that, so I had the $19,000 and I had to set some to the side because, again, I didn't have any other income coming in. So I paid up rent, you know, for some months in advance and paid my tides, gave 10% to a charitable contribution. And then I used that money and I kept marketing. So I went back and I said, okay, well, if I did this one, let me try and do it again. And honestly, just do what I did before. and now I just started marketing and doing more.

So I started putting a lot of that money into marketing. And can I make a quick point before we get to the marketing because I really want to get that, but I want to make sure we touch this beforehand. I love the fact that you said I took part of the profit and I paid it forward, basically. I tied that I gave to a charitable organization. So many people out there, they have this concept of, I'm going to start giving money away when I'm rich. But I've always believed that if you have $1,000 and you can't give $100, you're not going to give $10,000 when you have 100,000. You're not going to give 100,000 when you have a million. Like giving is kind of a heart

issue more than it is a than it is a dollar issue. Uh, you know, and so I love the fact that you say, I'm going to, I'm going to set this aside right now and give that. And there's also something that just frees us in our mind when we do that that says releases our grip on money and the scarcity mindset we have. And I was actually one of the reasons why I did it, Brandon, is because part of my backstory, which I didn't tell was, you know, I sold drugs, but I was very unsuccessful. I was the worst drug dealer there was. And I was because, you know, I was because, you know, because of my conscience, you know? And, you know, I knew the terrible effects it was that was having, but I was making this money and I wasn't really doing anything with it. And then I went

through a period of being completely dead broke. I'm a firm believer in Jesus Christ and it always talks about tithing and paying it forward. So I say, let me just try this, you know, and see what happens. And then when I started tithing faithfully, it's like those seeds just start materializing and I start finding other deals coming from everywhere and started networking with the bright people and in my business just started blooming. Yeah, there's this great study and I'm going to kind of butcher it now, but basically there's this guy who did the study showing like two identical families. One just gives an extra like $100 a year versus the other one.

And like everything was the same about them like, you know, I mean, everything was the same about the two families in the study. Yet the family who gave the extra $100,000 made an extra like $300 and some dollars a year, like actually earned more. So there's something about the act of giving that actually make people earn more, which is crazy, but pretty much every religion, every faith out there has some kind of thing about that. Like, when you give, you get back. And I'm not saying like, you've got $100 today and you're automatically going to get $300 tomorrow. But there's something in here that we're programmed to

release our hold on money and to be less greedy. And it comes back to us. You're absolutely right, Brandon. Absolutely right. And money is currency. So it has to continuously flow. And if it don't flow, then you'll lose it. So that's one of the things that I learned about it. So that was my entry into real estate was really doing these wholesale deals and still doing it right now. And one thing that I also wanted to share was the person that really became my mentor and showed me how to do everything. And the reason why it became my mentor is because one of the first failed deals that I did, I sent it out. I had this small little buyers list. And he looked at it. He said, dude, what are you doing? You know, he said, you're sending out a property that's at retail price,

trying to get a wholesale deal on it. And at the time, he called me in. And he was like, look, sit down. Let's talk. Let me show you how to do this. And I started working with him. And so I started getting that education. And that education really helped me build that confidence. And now that person that I was working with, that was my understudy now. We're virtually wholesaling. And he's a partner in our mind. That's cool. That's awesome, man. All right. So you took that money. You paid your tie. You probably paid some taxes on that. You dumped it into marketing to generate more deals. And so now you've got a marketing machine happening. What kind of marketing were you sticking with? What do you do? I mean, let's go. What were you doing? What are you doing

today to generate leads? I was doing direct mail then. Strictly direct mail. And now I'm doing direct mail. Plus, I'm doing some cold calling and some text messaging. But still, the majority of my leads come from direct mail. Nice. And what have you found has been what's worked well? Because I know different things work in different areas for different people, for different reasons. What has worked well for you in direct mail? Well, with direct mail, it's a professional letter, full color with a professional envelope full color. I don't subscribe to the postcards. I know people have the impression that they're cheaper, but if you, if you're with a local mailhouse, they'll teach you how to send out that professional letter with a professional envelope, the same cost that people

are sending postcards. So when they get that professional letter, they're looking at this is, this is a legit business versus someone sending a handwritten letter or something like that. Not to say that those don't work, but we've just been having a higher open rate and response rate with a professional letter. That's awesome to hear. Yeah, because you'll find people who swear the opposite works for them and something different. And that's why you don't know until you start doing it and start trying it. But I love the fact that like you just did it. You took the money.

You dumped it back into it. It started producing leads and it's still working today. So that's awesome. So that's good. This is the question David usually asked, but like overall overarching view of your investments today. Like what all do you do? Are you doing any rentals?

You're doing any flips? Just wholesaling. Okay. So wholesaling was my entry. Got into that. And then I started taking some of the money that I was making from the wholesale. And I knew that I needed passive income, you know, because if I don't close a deal or don't close two deals, then what am I going to do?

I'm back to zero. So I took that money and I started paid off some debts, got my credit together. And then I started buying some rentals. I was buying some rentals back in the Midwest, $30,000, $50,000 rentals. And they were turning, you know, bringing me $750 gross, which was about $4,500 net. And I just started building on that and building those. That way, if I come to a point where I don't close a wholesale transaction, I still have $4,000, $5,000 coming in a month. So that's where I'm at right now. And then I started listening to you, Brandon, about the Burr method. So I was like, okay, well, I'm going to try that, you know. So I would buy these properties undervalue, put $10,000, $15,000 into them, get them leased up. And that way I would then pull that equity out and go and buy another one. So I've been really focusing on doing that more. So now we're still doing the wholesale, but we know that that passive income is really the meat and potatoes. And in the midst of doing that, we found, and I know this may be a little bit off topic, but we found a turn of the century school.

that was built in 1897 and we converted that when I say we my family and my partner we converted that into a daycare. So we purchased that property for $70,000 and put another 30 into it. So we were all in at like 100. And now that property every month will get 2250 on. Are you running the daycare or are you leasing it to someone who runs it? Leasing it. We're leasing it out to someone. Oh, that's awesome. So you basically like, I don't know, investing in real estate that invests to, like, it's basically investing in commercial real estate at that point. Yeah.

So you're not dealing with, yeah, that's cool. My mom did daycare all growing up. That was my mom's job was. She did it in our house daycare. And I'm actually a fairly, I'm a very big believer in that business model. Like, not that I'm going to jump into a daycare center, but I'm actually a big believer because it's like reoccurring subscription revenue that will never end no matter what. Like we are always having kids and people are always doing it.

And parents aren't working less. days. They're only working more, which means there's more need all the time. So that is a, that's a cool recession resistant business right there. Yeah. And the good part about it, guys, is that I said we had the nonprofit back in Illinois. So the daycare is affiliated with our nonprofit. So the lease is a triple net lease. I don't have to worry about paying anything. They pay everything. Actually, my sister-in-law is the one that runs the daycare. So I'm pretty much hands off. And I know that that money is coming in every month, you know, like clockwork. That's awesome.

So how many rentals did you end up with in the Midwest? So in the Midwest, I have nine doors currently. Okay. And then I know one thing that really appeals to people about wholesaling is that you can kind of cherry pick the deals you want to keep and then sell the rest. Are you keeping anything you generate in Phoenix or are you just taking the money and putting it into rental properties in the Midwest? I'm just taking the money and putting it in the rental properties in the Midwest.

And that's because I'm just getting the returns, the better returns out there. Now properties appreciated so much here in Phoenix to where, to where, you know, you're really not making any money. Yep. Talk to cash flow. So then who are typically your end buyers that you're wholesaling it to? Fixing flippers. And we just did one that was going to a landlord.

So it was a small deal. And he said he wanted it and we just flipped it on over to him. We were going to keep it and just use it as a rental. But it was a little bit too small for us. So we just put it out there to our buyers list just to see what happens. And someone raised their hand and we'll make, you know, seven, eight grand on that. People love to call real estate passive income, which is interesting because most of the investors I know are very busy. Busy finding deals, busy managing teams, busy worrying they pick the wrong

market. Rent to retirement flips that model. They help investors buy turnkey new construction homes, often 10% below market value in top rental markets across the country. Their local teams handle the build, the property management and the details, so you don't have to. In some cases, investors even receive 50 to 75% of their down payment back at closing, and there are interest rates as low as 3.75%. They've been trusted partners with BiggerPockets for over a decade, and if you want to learn more, visit BiggerPockets.com slash retirement. People love to call real estate passive income, which is interesting because most of the investors I know are very busy. Busy finding deals, busy managing teams, busy worrying they pick the wrong market. Rent to retirement flips that model. They

They help investors buy turnkey new construction homes, often 10% below market value, in top rental markets across the country. Their local teams handle the build, the property management, and the details, so you don't have to. In some cases, investors even receive 50 to 75% of their down payment back at closing, and there are interest rates as low as 3.75%. They've been trusted partners with BiggerPockets for over a decade, and if you want to learn more, visit BiggerPockets.com slash retirement.

Wouldn't it be great if your houseplants paid rent while you were out of town? I mean, they've got the whole place to themselves, lots of sunlight, zero responsibilities. But no, they just sit there waiting for someone to spray them with some cool mist like a bunch of leafy loafers. But guess what? Your home actually could be earning you money while you're not there. Airbnb has a great feature called the co-host network, which makes hosting your home so easy. If you live far from your property or are away for extended periods, you can hire a local co-host to take care of the hosting for you. These co-hosts are vetted locals who already have experience hosting on Airbnb.

A co-host can handle all the details like messaging guests, creating your host space, and managing reservations, so everything runs smoothly. It's a practical way to earn a little extra money, maybe even some cash toward your next trip. Plus, you get to share your place with someone traveling to your area while you're off making memories somewhere else. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. Tax season reminder for all the real estate investors listening.

If you own rental properties, short-term rentals, commercial buildings, basically anything that's not your primary residence, you need to know about cost segregation. It's an IRS compliance strategy that lets you accelerate depreciation on your properties, which means you're paying less in taxes this year and keeping more cash in your pocket for your next deal. Cost segregation guys is the go-to firm, having done over 12,000 of these studies with $500 million in total depreciation identified. Head to Costsegregationguise.com slash BP to get a free proposal and see your potential tax savings. So tell me a little bit about what your business looks like. How many people do you have answering the phone? How many phone calls are coming in? How do you filter from a lead that calls and says, I got your mail to I'm closing on this deal? Okay. So basically, we have three acquisitions managers and then we have one field guy that's running out going to the property. So the acquisition managers,

they do everything from the intake all the way to closing. So they're scheduling everything, negotiating everything, and they're making sure we get to the goal line with it. So what we do is how we decide on which ones we're going to keep because we do fix and flip also. So we just look at the margins. If the margins are real thin and we're like, okay, well, it's not in an area that we want to be in or it doesn't fit our model,

then that's one that we'll wholesale out. If it's one that we look at and we say, like I just did one, well, I'll save that for the deep deal. Deep deal dive. Yeah. Deep deep deep. So that's how we make our decision. We look at them and we have some core areas in the Midwest that we invest in.

And if it's within that core areas and the numbers work for us, then we'll either fix and flip it or we'll hold on to it. If not, then we'll just wholesale it out. Hey, I have a question on that. I love the idea of having an acquisition manager or acquisition managers. Can you explain like, how do you find a good? Acquisitions manager. How are you paying them? Is that a salary? Is a commission base? Anything you can go on that would help me, I know. Sure. So actually, I found the majority of my acquisitions managers through bigger pockets. And the reason being is because I blog, you know, and I blog on the site. And then people started contacting me.

Hey, man, I'm trying to get started. I'm trying to learn. And then I knew this particular area that we wanted to be in. So the people that were in that area, I would vet them. I would fly out sometime. We would do a Zoom call and conference and vet them. And then we would just let them start doing some call intakes and see. we would record the calls and see how good they are. And then we just started hiring them. And then we give them 15% on each deal, you know, that close. So from lead intake to closing table, they close out the deal. They get 15%.

And then if we do a flip, then they have to be patient until the property closes. Then they get 15% of the profit. That's awesome. So here's what I want to say. Everybody out there listening to this, like from two sides, right? There are people out there that have a good business going right now, but you need to scale larger or need to reach. their hours, they're spending in their business, and they work on their business, not in it.

So, like, you can find these people all around, like, start networking. You don't have to even necessarily have a blog, though. That definitely helps us writing and putting content out there, but even just attending local bigger pockets, meetups, chatting with people, having those conversations. You can find young, eager, excited, not always young, but usually younger, eager, eager, excited people. And if you're that eager, excited real estate, like, up and coming, like, what a great opportunity to learn from somebody who's been there who's doing it and to make some money on the side. I mean, I know, like, yeah, yeah, it's such a phenomenal win-win.

And that's how I got started, Brandon. I mean, I started bird dogging. So I would just go out and try and find these deals. And in the midst of doing that, I was finding contractors. I was finding other wholesalers. I was finding buyers. So I was just creating this pool of people that I knew eventually in the future that I would end up doing some business with. And that's why I want to tell people, you know, you have to be patient.

It don't happen overnight. You got to start building these processes. and build and rapport with these people, and you'll find yourself in amazing positions and finding amazing deals. Marcus, I want to ask you for the people who come to you and say, hey, I really want to learn wholesaling. Can I come work in your company?

I'll do whatever it takes because there's a lot of that that goes around. People that say they do whatever it takes. What do you find are the key traits that lead to someone being successful in the role of an acquisition manager? One of the things that they have to be tenacious. You know, they can't give up easily. and I know that sounds so simplistic, but you just don't know how many people that we talk to and they say,

hey, I want to do this. And I say, okay, well, go and do these three things. Very simple things. Go and do these three things. I'll call you back in a week or two or the next month and see what you did. A lot of times they don't even do it. But, you know, they want to be Instagram millionaires and they want to be Facebook stars, but they're not going out there and putting in the work.

So, guys, you're listening. You just have to put it in the work. You have to sacrifice. Turn the TV off. Get off Instagram. Stop chatting. Get out there and hit the streets and start trying to find some deals. And those people will take you seriously.

And that's the reason why I was able to find great mentors is because I was out there making the mistakes. I was beating the streets. I was at the meetups saying, hey, I don't understand this. I got this deal that's at retail, you know, and everybody was like, this guy, I don't know what he's doing, but I was willing to look foolish. you know, at a later age, you know, I wasn't too older, but I was able to get out there and be vulnerable. Now, what about how much is your personality change from the guy who was on the phone

trying to talk to a seller directly to the person who actually like went in there, has the conversation, closes it, gets a contract sign, and puts it down the pipeline. Same person. Did you learn skills, like verbal skills with how to talk to people or like, yeah, you just got to kind of have that voice inflection. You, have to mimic the seller. You have to be patient. I'll give you an example. I had a seller in Chicago. I'm here in Arizona. And I had to vet them. I had, I did actually handheld this one myself because every now and then I like to get on the phone and I like to show my acquisition managers, hey, I still got this. So got on the phone with him. I never met him. We only spoke

over the phone. I was able to walk him all the way through. And at the end of the day, he put the contract, return the contract back to me in the mail. So I'll take some time to tell you this. This is what I did. So I vetted him over the phone, ran my comps over the phone, called him back, and I said, hey, Mr. Seller, this is what we can offer you for the property. He agreed. However, he was not tech savvy. He was older. So I had to put that contract in the mail overnighted to him. And then I stayed on the phone for like an hour and a half going through the contract line by line for him so he can understand the contract. He put the contract back in the mail. I received it.

I then had to call him back. Confirm, hey, Mr. Seller, I received the contract. Thank you. Next step of the way is I'm going to sign everything. Send it off to our attorney. Attorney will send it off to our escrow company. We'll open escrow. You will be in contact with our attorney.

You know, so it's basically you have to know the different personalities, David, that you're talking to on the phone. Some people you have to hold their hand and walk them all the way through. Others, they just want to know what's the top dollar you can give me. If it don't work for them, okay, fine, so be it. We'll put you in our follow-up system and give you a call, you know, down the road. But again, it takes patience. You have to know who you're talking with. You can't be afraid to get on the phone.

But to answer your question, David, when I, first started this, I hated talking on the phone. You can ask my wife. She's like, you never talk on the phone. But when someone calls about a lead, oh, you're ready to jump on the phone. I say, well, you better be glad I'm ready to jump on the phone because those $19,000 checks, you know, make you very happy. That's so funny. I say that to the agents on my team when a lead comes in and they don't want to take the call. And I'll say, why? Like, well, I was eating lunch. And I'll say, okay, what were you eating. I was eating a sandwich. And I'll say that was a $900,000 buyer. That was, you just walked away from $23,500 commission. Like, was that a $23,000 sandwich that you were eating, right? But my mind has

tweaked to learn to look at things that way. And it kind of ties into what I was hoping you'd say and you absolutely did. A lot of the newbies who get into real estate investing and there's all kinds of ways. There's wholesaling. There's flipping. There's buying rentals. There's multifamily. There's even being a real estate agent. In a sense, you're still working in the real estate world. They want to take the version of themselves they are right now and make it work in a new world. And a lot of us, the way that we learn how to work is we start in a very big company and the bigger company that you're in, the less you can get away with doing. You can have a very specific skill set when your company has 500 people and all you have to do is like a financials or all you have to do

is answer a phone or maybe support somebody else who's in sales. But when you get into our world, this like entrepreneurial world where you get a really big piece of that pie, you got to do a lot of the different jobs. And people that don't do well walk in with this expectation that they're going to be themselves in the new world and get the same results they've always got. And as an entrepreneur, you cannot think that way. You got to think I will become whatever I need to be in this world. I don't like talking on the phone.

Well, I'm going to have to learn how to talk on the phone, right? I don't like to be interrupted when I'm eating. I like my downtime. Well, then you're going to lose $23,000 because that lead doesn't care that you're eating a sandwich. They don't really care how you feel at all. And that's one of the things I think that when I look at somebody and they say, hey, I want to do this? I'll usually test them.

Do you understand that you're not going to just be able to look at an Excel spreadsheet all day long, that you actually in this role have to be somewhat engaging with people? And are you willing to make that change? Are you willing, like you said, to be rejected and look like a fool at the meetups? I bet you nine other people start at the same time as you. You're the only one willing to look like a fool. You're the one who learns at a rate 50 times faster than them. They'll eventually get to where you are 15 years later.

because they don't want to go out there. They don't want to put themselves out there. No one's giving them advice. And I just want all the listeners to understand you could do anything in the world that you want to do if you're willing to adapt to whatever you have to adapt to to do it. And this world is you're able to when it's just your personality, right? I couldn't change my body to be like a horse jockey. That's not going to happen.

I don't have the ability to go be a horse jockey, right? I don't think so. Right? But maybe I could have the body of an NFL football player if I really, really work super hard. But I'm never going to be like an NBA center. There's physical limitations on what you can do in that world. But in this world, there's nothing but your own attitude that determines how well you'll do. And if people understand, if I go work for Marcus, I'm going to have to do these things.

And they're willing to do it. And they just do it until they become callous and it doesn't work it but doesn't bother them anymore. They will be successful. You've created an environment where the phone is ringing and people have houses they want to sell. You've got leads. That's what a business needs, right? You need people that can convert those needs. And every business has something like that.

They all have a position that if you're willing to adapt and change yourself and become tenacious, not worry about rejection, get comfortable using a spreadsheet. Whatever it is that's holding you back, you can do well in that industry. You're absolutely right, David. And one of the things that I had to do to make sure I adapt was I had these daily confessions every day. because again, I wasn't the people person. I didn't go out. I didn't, you know, talk to people. I was always just the think or strategize and everything like that.

And I have someone else to execute. So every morning I had to get up and I had to speak these confessions over myself. You know, I am, you know, a people person and things like that. And then I started to adapt and I started to become that person, you know. And I know a lot of people think all of this mindset stuff is, you know, just a bunch of ra, right, Rob, but I mean, I'm proof that it absolutely works because there was some key things that I had to deal with, you know, personally in order for me to get to where I am now. And I know that if I didn't deal with those things, I wouldn't be where I am. Yeah.

Would you agree that that's everyone we've ever seen that turned the corner being successful was exactly what Marcus said is there was a part of their personality that had to change. Yeah. Some wound they experienced early in life that caused them to be a certain way that had they had to let go of it. I was going to say, this is why I'm not a huge fan of like the guru who's like the, you know, pay $40,000 for my coaching program, whatever, because that's not what they need. Like most people probably would be way better off with a therapist or like or a performance coach. I have a performance coach named Jason Dreeze. I like, we've been working together for like three years. Every week he finds something that we talk about or I find something in my personality that is stopping me from the next level and it has nothing to do with real estate.

but it has everything to do with my real estate success. And so, yeah, it's been, I guess a huge thing for me is to figure out the mindset stuff first or while I'm going through it and change who I am, not just what I want, but who I am, which is going to get me what I want. And nobody wants to do that, but that's what it takes. My performance coach, his name is Phil Toll. He worked with Metallica. He works with NFL players, NFL coaches, movie stars, like musicians.

He's super good. You can actually, like, see he was on a documentary that Metallica made. called something like a monster. It's that guy, yeah. And it is expensive, man. I have to pay thousands of dollars every month just for coaching, right? But when you go pay for that $50,000 program, it's equivalent of saying, I'm going to pay $50,000 to access to this gym that has any machine I would ever want to use. It has the best stuff in the world.

Here's all of it. I'm going to give you everything that I've got. Here it is. And then you never use it. Yeah. Because it's hard and no one shows you how to use the machines and no one tells you what to expect. And you don't know where to start and how to build up. up a skill here and then apply it there.

You know what actually works is when you get a personal trainer. Yeah. And you get accountability and you get a person that, hey, I know you don't know how to use this machine. Let me walk you through it, right? That's what the coach is for your mindset. They're going to actually help you change to become the version of you that you need to be to be successful.

I would pause to say 99% of people like that high have a percentage. That's what's missing in their success is they did not walk into it, understanding. I have to change me to get here. And that's the key thing. And you have to look like where you're going. So if you want to have 50, 50 units, you can't do the things to get one wholesale deal and think you're going to get 50 units. You have to start working on, okay, what do I need to do in order to get to 50 units? Who do I need to talk to?

Who do I need to be around? I can't just stay in this little box of being a wholesaler. I have to adapt. And I have to put myself in uncomfortable positions in order to get to where I want to be. So, you know, like you said, guys, performance coach is excellent. You got to have that. Yeah, it's huge. I'm curious, before we move on to like to deal deep dive and stuff, where do you see

your business headed in the future? I mean, especially with the market and being so topy, like, are you changing your strategy or where do you, where's the next few years for you? We are. So with Phoenix, since it has become so top heavy, we started virtual wholesaling. And that's why I was talking about being on the phone. And I'm teaching our acquisitions people, how to close people over the phone. I didn't believe that.

it was possible until I actually started doing it. And I'm like, wow, why do I need to go out there when I can actually do this, you know, right over the phone? So now I'm training our people to do that so we can not only wholesale here in Phoenix, but we're doing it in Chicago and then we're going to be doing it other places in the Midwest. But I mean, my ultimate goal, you know, is to own 50 units by the time I'm 50 and then spawn from near. So we're just using wholesaling as one step in order to get to where we're going, but we do have a strategic plan. And those who are with us right now that's wholesale and we're encouraging them to start looking at deals and go out and buy some things that way.

Not only are they working, but they can start investing as well. There's a lot of people that think you can't do things over the phone. You can't do it virtually. I would say you can't do it as easily. You can't do it if you're not good. But if you're good enough, man, like every time I come to Hawaii with Brandon, I do listing appointments or sorry, listing presentations for real estate clients via Skype. And I come back with two or three listings every single time that I'm here.

I actually make more money because I post all the stuff we're doing in Hawaii. I get people that now remember that I'm here and they want to talk about Hawaii. It turns into talking about selling their house. I give them a listing presentation over the thing. And I come back with a sign listing agreement and a listing ready for sale. That's that I do all of it virtually. Now, that doesn't mean like it's the same. It's easier in your in person.

It totally is. Like riding a bike is easier with training wheels. But when you're good at riding a bike, you don't have to do it that way. And now you've done the really smart thing where you're like, all right, this is a super competitive market. I don't want to be investing here. Very similar to me saying, I don't want to buy in California. It's just too expensive to buy rentals.

So where are all the deals? Okay, I'll go there. And then you ask the question, how do I do it? What would it take to do this? And the answer was, boom, well, I'll just get really good over the phone. And now you've got another business. Yep. And that's basically what we're doing.

Most of our deals are coming from the Midwest. We just received three contracts last week. All of them were basically over the phone, vetted over the phone, closed over the phone, and send us the contract. You don't have to have another brick and mortar place. You don't have to pay rent in another spot. You don't have to pay for all the typical costs

that you would have to do start a business. You've already got all these fixed costs in place with what you're doing and you're just bolting this on. So your expenses don't go up at all. And other than maybe like whatever, you have to pay people to do due diligence work out there. But your income rises, and your profit margin just go up really high.

Yeah. And then even with our team that's out there in Chicago, we even meet with them on Skype. Here's our weekly meeting. We go over, you know, our KPIs. This is what we're doing. This is where we want to go. Here are the leaders. Here are the laggers.

You know, let's pick it up. And let's see what we can get done in next week. You're speaking my language. Yeah. KPI's lead lag. I love that stuff. All right. Awesome.

Awesome, dude. Well, let's move on to the next. next segment, I want to get to know one of your deals better. So it's time for the deal deep dive. We're going to get to know one particular deal you've done. So you got something in mind? Yeah, absolutely. So this was a hotel deal that we did. And again, this was all bedded over the phone. All right. Yeah, where is it at? This is in Chicago. Okay. Single family house? Single family house in Chicago. Hotel. If you guys know where the hotel deal is. Explain that.

Sure. So similar to a wholesale deal, contacted the seller. We got the property under contract. So instead of turning around and then just assigning it to an end buyer, we actually took it down. And the funny thing about it, Brandon, is the person that took it down for me was my attorney. He saw the deals that we were doing because he was closing all of our deals in the Midwest. And he was like, hey, how can I get a part of this? And I said, here's a deal here. It's limited risk. You can be a part of this. And you put up all of the money. all of the cash, no dime out of my pocket. That's cool, man. So what you're saying is a wholesale deal is where you put a contract or a property inter contract and sell the contract to someone. A wholesale deal is where you're actually closing on it and then you're selling the property to somebody else, but you got title. Is that correct?

Exactly. Exactly. So I'm holding title and then we go out and find normally it's just a traditional end buyer. Now, this wouldn't be part of our deal deep dive, but I'm curious. How do you determine when you should wholesale and when you should hold tail? Actually, that one was very, very specific. That was the first one that I've actually done. And really, I did that because I wanted to build this relationship with the attorney.

But I'll get into that, David, when we talk about this deep deal. Okay. Awesome. So on this deal, how did you find it? Marketing, direct mail. Okay. Direct mail. Sent letters from here in Phoenix.

We got a local mailhouse in Phoenix, you know, that coordinates the walk sequence. So again, we can get these full color letters. out for 49 cent, the same as people will pay for post. That's awesome. All right. How much was the property? Like, first of all, how much was he asking for it? And then what did you end up getting it for?

So she was asking for 100. She was asking for 100. The property was in meticulous condition. At the end of the day, I tried to talk her out of selling it to me because I want, I wanted to be a win-win for both parties. And I was looking at the best interest for her. She was an older later. Her husband passed away.

So it was a deceased mailing. And she just said she couldn't do it anymore. So I talked to her for about four to five months. So I told her the initial call, she said she wanted $100,000. She sent me pictures, text me pictures. And I looked at it and I said, well, you know what, maybe you need to list this property on an MLS. She'll get way more than what we're offering. But by the way, this is what I'm willing to offer you.

I'm willing to offer you $51,000. $1,000. A-R-V was $180. So I thought it was over with. Thought it was dead. Thought it was over with. We were 50 grand away. You know,

and then she just called me. And she was like, you know what? I don't want to go through it with the realtor. You know, I'm keeping up with the electricity, the bills and everything like that.

$51,000, send me the contract. We'll do it. Wow. Awesome. Well, I kind of explains how you negotiated that thing. Yeah, you actually tried to negotiate for her instead of you.

But I worked out good for you. I did. But you know, what, guys, it's my whole approach is service. I want to make sure we provide service to our sellers, to our buyers. So if the deal don't make sense for them, don't do it. You know, don't do it. I 100% agree with you because what happens is you unlock your own subconscious to be on board with supporting what you're trying to do. It's the same way giving works. When you know that if I make this money, I'm giving this bunch of it away, your subconscious knows

how good that feels. And it's like, I want you to work harder. And it gets behind you and powers you. I feel that same thing as a real estate agent when I'm representing a seller. And let's say I've listed your house for $700,000 and I got some buyer who just needs it so bad. And I've negotiated him up to like 805. Okay. And we're going over who's going to pay the title and escrow fees. It's so easy to just be like, I don't care. We're making $105,000, right?

But all I think about in my head is they hired me to get them every single dollar that they could. So I'm going to drag out this title and escrow thing for another 48 hours and make them think that another buy. is going to come pay more, even though that'll never happen. Because my conscious needs to know that I did the best job I could. Because the next time I go on a listing appointment, if I didn't do that, there's a little voice that's like, no, you're not. You're not going to give it your best. You're just going to give it better than other people.

And so you have to, like, be true to yourself. You have to satisfy who you know you are as a person. And when your your subconscious lines up with your goals, that's where you actually make really big progress. And so I 100% agree that the way that you do it is the way that it should be done. You've got to follow what feels right inside. Yeah, and a lot of people, you know, especially wholesalers, I understand you're just now getting into real estate and you're trying to make as much money as you can so you can pivot and do something else. But at the same time, you know, it's just about service.

And again, that's the reason why I was a horrible drug dealer. It was because of my conscience. You know, I want to do. I was thinking that as I was talking actually. Like, thank God that you were a really bad drug dealer because now we get to talk to you about house stealing. Yeah. Yeah. So, but yeah, and that's what I preach to all of our people, you know, is just providing.

excellent service and the money will come on the back end. So to answer your question, Brandon, I didn't have to do much negotiating because I told her what we was willing to pay. It was way lower than what she was willing to accept. But due to life circumstances, she came back around and she was like, look, let's just get it done. So with this one, I did fly out to Chicago to meet her. I mean, I was talking to her on the phone for four to five months. We had built up this report. So I said, you know what? I'll fly back. I'll see. you able to get a chance to see my family also. And when I walked in the property, the property was in such great shape.

You know, I could have licked the floors. The floors were just refinished, new windows, new roof, everything. And it was new. And then again, I told her, I said, are you sure you want to do this for $50,000? Because you could definitely get more listening to it on the MLS. And she said she just don't want to deal with it. And sign the contract right there, got it for $50,000. sent it to our attorney, and that's when he said he wanted to be a part of the deal.

We took it down. He gave us 90 grand. We was assuming that we was going to do a light flip on it. So we put 40 into it. That's what we was assuming we was going to put 40 into it. But my partner said, hey, you know what? Let's just put it on the MLS and see what happens. So that's what we did.

Put it on the MLS. And literally within 72 hours, we had an offer for $150,000. Wow. 150 150 we got it for 51 our our buyer has some contingencies so we had to pay some contingencies we redid the garage roof we updated some electrical so we put about 15 into it so we were all in at like 6566 and turned around and sold it for 151 that's awesome all right so what was the outcome at the end so you know profit-wise what that looked like 75k or something like that so it was it was actually 60 And the reason why is because the attorney took care of us.

So I turned around. I took care of him. And we gave him 30% of the upside, which we didn't have to do. But again, I'm a relationship person. And he has more money. So he has more money to filter. So I was like, well, we'll take the bite on this end and make it up on the back end. So we got it 60 grand on that.

That's awesome. Isn't there saying like if you shear a sheep, you can always share it. But if you kill it, you can only kill it once. Yep. I don't know if that's a phrase. Did you just make that up? No, I'm, I said it, but I'll give you the opportunity to make that and take credit for it later. The idea is, right?

You made that attorney happy. You shared the sheep. He's going to come back with the golden goose. You don't want to kill the golden goose that lays the golden eggs. You know, there's two different parables with the same. There's something about sharing a sheep. And listeners, when you guys are hearing this, can you please go on, like, our Instagrams or something and set me straight on this parable that I'm really messing up? I've been too focused on analogies lately and my parables have fallen off.

You are working on a new book. I got another analogy that's similar to that. That's what a male cow, a bull and his son might be a little bit of inappropriate. I'll tell you that one later. All right. So what lessons did you learn from this deal? I learned to be patient. That's one thing.

And I learned to listen because at first I was just going to do the flip regardless because we We could have made another 25, 30 grand. We could have sold it for 185, you know, if we would have went in and put another 40 into it. But I was like, well, why put 40 into it to make 30? It makes no sense. And why go through the headache? So it was really one of the things that I learned was really listening to others, listening to my partner and some of the other people that I sent the deal to just to kind of bet it.

Because, again, I thought it was too good to be true. And instead of us doing the flip, it was like just hotel it. and get rid of it and move it. Yeah. Awesome, man. Very, very cool story. Well, that was a good deal, deep dive, but now it's time to head over to the Fire Round.

It's time for the Fire Round. All right, time for the world famous Fire Round. These questions come direct out of the Bigger Pockets forums, which, of course, our listeners should go and access by going to BiggerPockets.com slash forums. And jump in. There's people like Marcus hanging out in there all the time. Marcus, number one, from the Fire Round.

Corey from Raleigh, Raleigh, Raleigh, Raleigh, North Carolina. It's like the French way of saying it. You should know that because we were just talking about that Darius Rucker song Wagon Wheel. Yeah. He talks about Raleigh. He doesn't say Raleigh. Well, whatever, he does say Raleigh. Let's say you've got 100K saved up to invest in real estate.

What would you do to generate the highest possible return with average market risk? With 100K, you know what? I would look to probably partner with somebody so I can buy some multifamily. some larger multi-families, somebody that's syndicating or something like that, because that way that money can continuously turn and turn and turn. And then you have the tax incentives versus trying to go out doing a flip or something like that and getting hit over the head, 30% on taxes. Nice.

Okay. Next question is from Aaron with Donna. It's tax season. What do you do for your taxes? Do you use a professional CPA? And if so, do you have any tips on finding one? I use a professional CPA. tips on finding one is really ask around, go into bigger pockets forums.

Wherever you live at your area, ask some of the other investors that's in there. One thing I do want to say is don't just grab any accountant because some accounts are not really specialized in investing. So make sure you find someone that has a background dealing with real estate. Yeah, we were just, Brandon and I were just talking about this yesterday, that finding a good accountant is one of the hardest things to do because their answer is almost always... Depends.

Yeah, it depends. Like, it was the same thing. I hated that when I was a police officer. I'd ask guys like, okay, so let's say the suspect does this. Can I do that? And the answer was always, well, it depends, right? If he's beating somebody with a hammer, you can. But if he's tickling him with a feather, then you can't.

And I was like, if he's tickling him with a feather, I'm not asking this question. Right. Can't you just give me a straight answer? And it's tough when you're in any kind of a position where there's liability on the advice that you give somebody and it makes everybody. So you have to really, really look hard to find that CPA that's confident. enough in what they're doing and experience stuff that they can give you good advice. Absolutely.

I number three, Jose from Joliet. Joliet. Joliet. Joliet. Joliet. Joliet. Illinois. All right. You know,

I recently started wholesaling. I don't have a ton of money to spend a marketing. All the deal finders out there. What marketing strategies are working best for you for somebody who doesn't have any cash? Wow. Networking. That's one of the best things to do. Go to all of the different meetups.

things like that, start networking. If you don't have a lot of money, then start bird dogging. Get with an experienced wholesaler and go out there and try and find deals for them. That way you can make some money and still try and learn, you know, learn how to wholesale. So I would say, go out, make sure you go to all of the meetups, have your face everywhere and try and find you a mentor. You know, but you got to when you, when you're looking for a mentor, you have to be willing to work. You can't just say I'm looking for mentor and then don't do anything. All right.

Really good. All right. Last question is from Rick in Hackettstown, New Jersey. That is a funny name. How did they end up naming the town Hackettstown? Probably something horrible happened there. Mass murder by Hackett or something. All right.

The question is, I've been told to build my cash buyers list before I get deal. But what do I say to the people that call me looking for the deal? I won't have a property to offer them and they won't get and will they get ticked off and not want to work? No, they won't get ticked off. right now and almost in every market, people are trying to find deals. And sellers, I mean, buyers know that the more that they're on wholesalers buyers list, than more opportunities they have to find deals. So again, that's that limiting belief, you know, maybe the buyers won't want to work with me. Just get out there and do it. So what? Get their email address. And when you do

come across the deal, now you can send it to that buyer and see what he'll do with it. Yeah, it's like somebody calls me and it's like, hey, Brandon, so I'm looking for deals. on Maui for flips. I don't have anything yet, but I'm working this strategy. I'm really trying hard for this. And when I get something, can I bring it to you? Would you want to buy it? Like, why would I say, like, why would that make me mad? I'd be like, what? You don't already have something? Yeah, yeah. You're wasting my time. Like, no, I'd be like, yeah, go get something bring to me. Now, I said, I wouldn't get on a phone for eight hours with that person because, like, you know, they haven't proven themselves. Right. But can they bring me a deal? Yeah,

no one's going to say no to that. And that's how they prove themselves by bringing something Brian. A deal. That's it. That's it, man. Beautiful. All right. Very, very good answers to the fire round.

And now it's time to move to the last segment of the show. Famous for. All right. Time for the Famous Four. These questions are the same four questions we ask every guest every week here on the Bigger Pockets podcast. And now, Marcus, favorite real estate related book. Man, I have to go with the classic. And that's just Robert Kiyosaki's rich dad, poor dad.

I got it up behind me. Make sure I filtered through it at least once a year. very cool what about your favorite business power broke man i like that because starting out with no money you got to hustle and you don't you're bringing nothing to the table but your skills your education your knowledge and you have to turn that into capital so power broke by damon johns all right i've not read that one put on my list when you're not wholesaling and drop a 19 000 checks on the table to show off to your wife what are some of the hobbies you enjoy man i have two my son he is a he's 10 years old he's a little league full contact football player so i go out there and i volunteer

with the coaches they just won a championship yesterday playing seven on seven that gets me and get me going and then i'm an avid harley rider man i got a custom harley so i get out there and spend some time strategizing and thinking why i'm why i'm riding so let me ask you a question when you're out there with the other parents of the football kids or your motorcycle buddies how often do you talk about real estate it always comes comes up, even though when I try not to talk about it, because a lot of them are my social profiles and things like that, talk about a deal that I've done or something like that. They want to congratulate me. They want to ask, hey, how can I do it? So it always comes up, you know, even when I'm trying

not to. The best part about our profession is that writing a Harley with a bunch of guys or watching your kid's game is work. If you just talk about real estate and people remember you and say, hey, can you help me buy a house or, hey, I got a deal I think that you need to look at. You just got paid to go have fun. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's also cool. And I've said this before is how real estate is a cool profession.

Like, you're like, we're cool dudes to a lot of people. You know, like that sounds stupid. But like, yeah, people are like, yeah, the Harley guy who I think is super cool, but he's looking at you going, dude, that guy does real estate. Like, I've always wanted to do real estate. Everybody wants to do real estate someday. Everybody has, like, I want to do that poll sometimes soon. And it's like, the question to like a random 1,000 Americans, do you someday want to

to invest in real estate? I bet you it's over 90% would say yes. Yeah, I can almost guarantee that. Everyone just knows deep down that like real estate's where it's that. So anyway, yeah, I get people constantly like, I'll people like, yeah, congratulations on the deal you just closed. I'm like, how would you even know about that? Like, we don't even, and like, oh, I saw it on your Facebook or your Instagram.

Like, so yeah, talk about your successes. It's a great way to get people to congratulate you. And then people want to be a part of success. Then they want to give you private money or they want to invest in your fund or whatever. Like I'm picking up a lot of investors in our fund opened our capital. A lot of them came from just my friends on Facebook who saw what we were doing. So, yeah.

And then all. Also, you know, they always ask you, well, what do you do? Oh, I'm a real estate investor. Yeah. And then it just goes from there. I mean, when you say real estate investors, it's almost like you're a superhero, like you're wearing a caper. Well, they're hoping that you invite them on your yacht to go cruise the Mediterranean, you know, all the perks that come from real estate investing. I've yet to run into the yacht yet. Yeah. Yeah, I'm getting there. Yeah, yeah, working on it. All right, Marcus, what do you believe sets apart successful real estate investors from all those who give up, fail, or never get started? Man, tenacity.

And believing in themselves. You know, that's basically it. They've got to have that tenacity and grit. And then they got to believe in themselves, you know, and bet on yourself. Love it. Very cool. All right. For people that want to learn more about you, maybe want to work with you, mentor from you,

how can they find out more about you? Man, they can find me on bigger pockets. All of my social media profiles there. And my social media handles are MRCS Maloney. That's at Twitter, at Instagram, you know, at Facebook. Or they can go to Marcus E. loony.com. All right. Very cool. And Marcus, thanks for being here. Thanks, guys. And always remember to enjoy the journey. I love it. It's awesome. This is David Green for Brandon putting fun in funds,

Turner. Signing up. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle, active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress?

Here's a better question. What if you could buy brand-new construction homes, 10% below market value in the best markets across the country, without making real estate your second job? That's exactly what rent-to-retirement does. They're a full-service, turn-key investment company handling everything for you. In some cases, investors get 50 to 75% of our down payment back at closing,

plus interest rates as low as 3.75%. They've partnered with BiggerPockets for over a decade, helping thousands invest smarter. If you want to do the same, visit Biggerpockets.com slash retirement to learn more.