BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 405: Investing in the Only True Recession-Proof Asset: Yourself! with Lewis Howes

Episode Date: October 4, 2020

Do you have fears and insecurities that hold you back from the life you envision? No? OK, well we'll see you next week... But really: this topic gets to the heart of why so many real estate investors quit, fail, or never even get started at all. Today's guest, Lewis Howes, has been studying these concepts for the past 13 years as host of the hit podcast School of Greatness. It all started as an effort to climb out of a major low point in Lewis' life, when he was broke and sleeping on his sister's couch... having crashed out of a brief arena football career. In this episode, you'll learn how Lewis learned to hack his self-limiting beliefs by systematically putting himself in situations (Toastmasters, salsa dancing, public speaking) that utterly terrified him. And he shares some practical exercises you can do to achieve greater confidence and self-mastery. Plus -- as a LinkedIn expert with a far-reaching network of connections, Lewis also opens up about how to effectively network on social media and elsewhere. Don't miss this weekend episode of the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast, and give Lewis a shout on social media you take him up on his challenge to write a mission statement for your life! As always: if you're enjoying these shows, the best way to show your appreciation is to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. It really helps us out! In This Episode We Cover: Climbing out of a hole when he had no money and no marketable skills Overcoming fear of public speaking Two practical exercises to confront your biggest fears The clarifying power of writing a personal mission statement The LinkedIn message formula Lewis used when reaching out to powerful people Choosing a niche, then a sub-niche The 3 magic words that multiply your chances of getting a deal or upgrade The one common trait shared by all the top performers he's interviewed And SO much more! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Podcast USA Men’s National Team Ellen’s Show The Today’s Show LinkedIn Rookie of the Year Lewis's Interview on Jay Shetty's Show On Purpose Dave Ramsey Grant Cardone on Multifamily Investing and Why You Should Never Buy a House! BiggerPockets Podcast 403: Developing a Millionaire’s Mindset and Overcoming Limiting Beliefs with Performance Coach Jason Drees Sweet Martha's Cookie Jar Kevin Hart on His Secrets to Success and Building an Empire Monday.com Rob Bell Real Estate in Your Twenties BiggerPockets Podcast 365: Ret. Navy SEAL Jocko Willink on Embracing Discomfort and Leading Through Extreme Ownership (+ His Real Estate Investing Tips!) BiggerPockets Podcast 157: A Simple Morning Ritual to Help You Dominate Every Area of Your Life with Hal Elrod BiggerPockets Podcast 254: Tim Ferriss on Real Estate, Becoming a Top Performer and His Tribe of Mentors Gary Vaynerchuk on Finding Deals Through Social Media & Crushing It as an Entrepreneur Click here to check the full show notes: https://www.biggerpockets.com/show405 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 405. I said, I only know sports, so I need to make my life like it is a sport. And what does all great athletes have? They have great coaches. They have great teams. And they are able to set goals. And if I can figure out how to do that in the next phase, then I think hopefully I'll be all right. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small.

If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, Without all the height, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What is going on to? It's Brandon Turner, host of the Bigger Pockets podcast, the weekend edition here with David Green. What's up, David? Welcome back to the show.

How you doing, man? Thank you, thank you. This was a blast. I'm feeling really good. I think our audience is going to feel really good too. And I'm doing great. Thanks for asking, Brandon. It's very nice.

Good. Yeah, we just got finished recording with Mr. Lewis Howes. Lewis is a super successful, legit, like, podcaster, entrepreneur, business owner, done a lot of really, really great things. I mean, he's actually a professional football player, All-American and two sports in college, USA men's national handball team athlete. He's got a show called The School of Greatness. I think he has over 250 million downloads on that with a thousand episodes. He's been on the Ellen Show, Today Show, and a lot of other major shows. really like legit successful guy and we were really excited to have you know be able to interview him today and bring him to you guys so with that said let's get right into

things with today's quick all right so one thing that Lewis talks about today you'll hear is social media a little bit about social media and building a personal brand now for real estate investors or for anybody this is so vital because people will check you out on social media so they're very quick the quick tip is very simple go to all your social media platforms where there's LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, whatever, TikTok. And ask yourself, like, am I portraying the person that I want the world to see? Like, that I want the world to see. So that I mean, do I look professional enough?

Am I putting out my goals there? Am I showing that I'm able to help others? Like, is what I'm portraying line up with my mission? And that'll make more sense later as we get into today's show. But that's your quick tip today. Just take a five minutes to look at all your social channels and make sure that. that it's the way you wanted to look. And if not, make some changes.

Anything you want to add on that, David? Yeah, our guest talks a lot about things that we're afraid of, kind of dictating the decisions that we make in life. And he gives some amazing advice for purposely facing the thing you're afraid of. And I would just add onto the quick tip. There may be things that we put about ourselves

to portray ourselves on social media that are directly related to our fears. I don't think I'm successful enough. I want to look more successful than I am, right? Ask yourself if social media is something that you're using to fuel your fears as opposed to fuel your goals and make those corrections, you won't regret it. Very good. Very awesome.

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Banking services provided by Threadbank, member FDIC. And now, it's time to get to this interview. Like I said, Lewis House is somebody that I look up to a lot online. And he talks a lot about how to build relationships, how to reach out, including a formula for getting someone to respond to you on social media. He talks about the three words that you should be using for any kind of upgrade, whether you're at a restaurant or hotel or an airline, how to do that. We'll talk about creating a one-life, or sorry, a one-sentence mission statement for

your business and for your life. We talk a lot about, like, insecurities and how to overcome them and how to even use them and harness them for greater success in life and so much more. There's so much gold in this episode. You guys are going to love it. So grab a pen and paper, take some notes, and let's get into this thing. All right, Mr. Lewis Howes, welcome to the show, man. It's good to have you here.

Thanks, brother. Appreciate it. Yeah. So, you know, you're somebody I've been watching for years, you know, grow your brand, your business, your podcast. Really been impressed with what you've been doing. But today, I want to go, I want to introduce to our audience. Our audience might, you know, they're not as much in the necessarily internet marketing

or entrepreneurship space or even in the business or personal development. There are a lot of real estate investors. So for those who don't know you, I want to introduce you because you're an admirable guy. So can you kind of walk us through? I mean, a little bit of your early story. I mean, like, what was kind of your background? And how did you get into this kind of world of, I guess, you know, just life? 62nd point of view.

I grew up in a small town in Ohio called Delaware, Ohio, about an hour from Columbus. And had a big dream to be an athlete, be a pro athlete. Was a two-sport All-American in college and then went on to play arena football, making $250 a week. got injured as I was trying to make my way up to the NFL. That was kind of the ranks getting up there. I realized that it was like the greatest feeling of my life for that year and a half playing football, even if I was only making $250 because it was like, I'm doing something I love. I'm catching a football.

I'm playing a sport that I've always dreamed to play and I'm making money. I would have done it for free, but it was nice to make $250. I wish I was making more because I didn't have any savings after I got injured. and so I ended up moving in with my sister for a year and a half in Columbus, Ohio, living on her couch, trying to figure out at 24 what I'm going to do with the rest of my life. Now that my identity is over, what can I do to make money? I never thought I would be an entrepreneur. I had zero skills or talents of selling anything. I never had a lemonade stand or sold baseball cards or I had no hustles in school growing up.

I just wanted to be an athlete. And so when that identity was over, I was truly like, what am I going to do with the rest of my life? I have no transferable skills. I didn't graduate yet from college. I still had some credits that was shy. So I was like, who was going to hire me? This was in 2007, eight, and nine during the last economic downturn. I was like, who would hire a college dropout who made $250 a week playing arena football?

No one. They weren't hiring people with business degrees, let alone or masters, let alone people that didn't graduate college in 2008. And so I said to myself, what can I do where I understand how to live life in the next phase? And I said, I only know sports, so I need to make my life like it is a sport. And what does all great athletes have? They have great coaches.

They have great teams. And they are able to set goals. And if I can figure out how to do that in the next phase, then I think hopefully I'll be all right. So I started reaching out to mentors really quickly. they started giving me advice. One of them said, why don't you check out LinkedIn? Another one said, you need to overcome your fear of public speaking if you want to communicate

and do well in business or at a job. So those two mentors really guided me. I started taking public speaking class every week at Toastmasters for the next year to overcome that fear. I started building my network and relationships on LinkedIn for about six hours a day during that year and a half with my sister. And I just said, I'm going to learn. I'm going to find other great people, see what they've done well.

and I start taking action on my goals. Started doing kind of the online marketing stuff because I had a laptop in my sister's place and I got into marketing quickly. I just started studying every book and interview and blog and started creating things, built an online marketing courses, sold that company, made some money in a couple of years,

and then I said, okay, what do I want to do? I really want to sit down and interview people, the world's greatest athletes, minds, business leaders, and tell their stories. And so that's kind of what my last seven and a half years has been with the School of Greatness. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I mean, you got a phenomenal show and you talk to a lot of really, really high-level people, like really top performers. Do you find certain, and this is a broad question, but certain threads that kind of tie a lot of the top performers together.

Like, other things that you're like, well, yeah, of course you're successful. I see this with almost everybody I talk to. Yeah, vision. They're unwavering in their vision of what they want. You know, the Olympic gold medalists don't just say, I think I want to work. win a gold medal in the Olympics. They are so clear at a young age and then they dedicate their life to that vision. And no one, you know, if you look at Musk or even Trump, no one's just like, oh, I think I want to do this. I think I want to start a car company. I think I want to be the president

or I think I want to build a real estate empire. It's like you guys were very clear on your real estate vision and you went all in on it and you obsessed about it until you mashed it. So number one, they're very clear in their vision. Number two, they all have some adversity that they need to face at some point, and usually multiple times. And they, all the greats learn to master their adversity. They don't shy back and fall backwards. They actually say, okay, how am I going to become this adversity? And essentially, learn to use it as one of my skill sets as opposed to something that holds

me back. And so they turn their adversity into their advantage. The third thing I would say is they all have eventually a sense of service, something you want to do to give back. I think the ones that transcend success and turn into greatness don't make it about them. They make it about other people because success is all about us, what we accomplish, but greatness is all about what we can give to others or the world. You mentioned during that awesome story there that you were staying at your sister's place.

For the guests that aren't familiar with your story, can you share a little bit about what was going on in your life when you were at your sister's house? And maybe how that period of time helped you develop the three things that you just mentioned right there. What was going on was a sense of depression, loneliness, insecurity, poorness. I mean,

I was just eating off my sister every day. I didn't have any money. And I was essentially begging people for food many times. I remember going to a Toastmasters class once, and they had like bread and cheese in the back. I don't know if you guys know what Toastmasters is, but it's like a public speaking class. They had like bread and cheese and crackers in the back.

And I was literally, this is one I had a cast on. So I had a full arm cast from my shoulder to my finger. to my fingers in this position, kind of like rookie of the year, but after I took the cast off six months later, I didn't have superhuman strength like that kid did in that movie.

And so I was kind of in this position for six months, yeah, holding my arm up. And... That's like my favorite movie one of the kid, by the way. It was great, yeah. Yeah, hello. But it was really frustrating to be in this position when you can't straighten your arm,

you can't turn your hand, you can't do anything. And so I went into this Toastmasters class and they had food in the back and I literally was stuffing my pockets with food, like putting in a napkins, stuffing it. And this man who gave a speech there saw me doing this. He said, what are you doing? I go, I'm really hungry.

You know, I'm just like, I used to be a football player. I'm starving. I don't have any money. And he said, let me go buy lunch. And he bought me lunch. And I just started saying, he's like, why are you here? And he could see I was kind of down and out. This is like, I couldn't even wear a normal shirt at this time because my shirts wouldn't

go over the cast. It was so big. So I had like cut off like white feeder. I just really looked out of place. Everyone in this, this Toastmasters had like suits on. They were all professionals and I was his 24 year old kind of bum. And he said, what are you here? I said, you know, I'm trying to figure out the next stage of my life and I need some great coaching. I need to overcome my fears. I just feel like I have no sense of direction. He ended up becoming another mentor and we ended up writing a book together. So my first book, I wrote a year and a half later, which was about LinkedIn, because I was spending all my time on LinkedIn. I was kind of helping him how to use it and how to meet people for his business. And he was helping me, he was like, you need to write a book about this.

And I was like, I have no clue how to write a book. I almost flunked out of English in high school. And he said, well, I've written four books, so why don't we write it together? And I'll guide you. And I'll tell you what you need to write and I'll work on it. I'll get it printed. I'll do all that stuff. But you just write the content you know.

because I really built a brand around being kind of a LinkedIn expert. Because that's all I did. I just obsessed over learning how to use LinkedIn. Kind of like you guys obsessed over how to buy and flip duplexes. I was like, LinkedIn is going to be my thing because I have a laptop on my sister's couch. And I feel like this could be an opportunity to build relationships, maybe find a job or something with my life.

So I just went all in on that one thing and started becoming the expert around. I started branding myself as the job. the LinkedIn guy. Everyone at that time was talking about how to use social media back in 2008, 2009. No one was talking about one platform the way that I was talking about LinkedIn. I was saying, screw all social media, just focus on this and here's the results you can get. Because I was not branding myself as a social media expert, I was branding myself as the LinkedIn guy. Opportunities started to flood in from that branding strategy. And I leveraged that. Once I broke through in one category, then I was able to break through in other categories and use those

relationships for the next phase of my life. So I really spent that year and a half of my sister's couch learning, researching, testing things, reaching out to mentors, and just constantly seeing how can I develop new skills that maybe will be transferable someday. I didn't know because at that point I still wasn't really making any money. I was just trying to figure out who am I, what do I want to do and who can help me. I love that you say that idea of like you went all in on this thing. Rather than just be I'm a social media guy. It's like I'm going to be a particular on this.

Now I was listening to an interview you did with Jay Shetty. That's his name, right? Jay, right? So you did an interview with him on his show on purpose. So it's called on a show. I'm getting a right. Yeah. Shout out.

So I was listening to this morning while I was out for a walk. And you mentioned a lot of people and I wrote down this point because I thought was so good. A lot of people just go way too wide, way too fast. And you were talking about the importance of just like really like focusing in on something first. Can you can you talk about like how that applies like why that's so important? Yeah. Imagine like imagine there's a wall in front of us.

You're in a house and you're trying to tear down the wall. But you want to try to do everything. And so you hit the wall in every different point. And you never break through the wall. You're punching it. You can't. break through the wall because you're hitting it in all different points all over the wall and you're putting your energy spread out everywhere as opposed to I'm going to go in one

direction, one focused area and I'm going to keep punching until I break through this wall in this certain place. Once we break through the wall, we get out to the other side of the wall. Now we can open up a broader net. Now we've expanded our awareness, our capabilities, our skill sets. So on the other side, we can then start going wider. Most people start wide. Maybe in real estate, I'm going to do duplexes. Then I'm going to buy 10 apartments and I'm going to buy four homes in this development. And then I'm going to go all over the country as opposed to, let me just focus on apartments in Delaware, Ohio. And just start with 10 there and figure that out and become the best at that one thing.

As opposed to, well, I'm going to get involved this and I'm going to do commercial real estate and this. Now, wait until you focus on the one thing, master it. Then with that skill set, that experience, that expertise, then, okay, I'm going to try these other types. of real estate investments. I'm not sure if that's what you guys would say. That's exactly. People need to re-listen to that last 30 seconds a minute over it. It's because I think you're going to, okay, I'm going to be the expert in Twitter or

or Facebook and YouTube. We don't have that much time and energy to go all in on everything when we start out. When we build resources, when we build team, then we can spread it and go wider and kind of diversify. But I'm always telling people to go all in on the thing that you're most talented or most excited about in the beginning. And don't stop. A lot of people, this is a great example. Jay Shetty, since you mentioned him, I met Jay three years ago when he had 200,000 followers on his whole social media platform. And no one really knew who he was at the time. And we met literally

three years ago, like this week, essentially. And we spent a whole day together in New York City. And after about a year, he really kind of blew up over the next year. He went from 200,000 around this of the year to in January he had 2 million followers like a few months later then at the end of that year so 2018 he had 20 million followers so start of 2019 he had 20 million followers

and he's growing up 37 million now and he said like in 2018 he was like oh man everything's growing I want to launch a podcast I want to do a book I want to do an event here I want to do all these other things now and I said listen man this was that 2 million followers

I said listen this thing is blow up faster than I've ever seen. Screw the podcast, screw the book, until you reach 10 million followers, until you reach 20 million followers. Like, go all in on this viral video creation thing. He was doing like one a week at the time.

I said, you should be doing three a week until it stops growing. Like, go all in because it's working right now until it stops. Then when you see a taper off, okay, now is the time to transfer that into the book, into the podcast,

into a coaching program, which he did in the last, year and it's all worked out in a beautiful way. But if he would have started early when it was just two million, when things were growing and he said, let me transfer this energy and do all these other different things, he probably wouldn't have the following he has now. And he went all in on it. So I think that's why it's important for anyone listening in real estate to go all in on the one thing and focus on it. Whatever that thing is that you're excited about, that you're interested and that you know about, go all in on it. Yeah, that's so good. Because yeah, people just try to do

way too much beginning. And podcasts are partially a blame for it, right? Because we listen to a podcast. You're like, oh, that sounds amazing. And, oh, I'm going to start that business. I better go do an Amazon business than a real estate thing. And like, yeah, if you can just focus on that thing that fires you up that you're good at that you can do, like, yeah, all in, pour into that thing. And I think, and say, listen, I'm not, I'm not going to take on shiny objects until I get 10 apartments.

Until I get 30, whatever it is, the thing that you're going to do. like, okay, make a number and until this, I'm going to say no to everything else. And all my money is going to go back into the next one of these things of this investment. Then when I hit 10, okay, I'll dabble in commercial real estate. I'll dabble in whatever else there is. I'll dabble in that and see if I like it. But I feel like you've got to make the bread and butter, the bread and butter until you've max it out or until you've got so much extra resources, time, or team to go try the next thing.

but it's just tough. Well, let's unpack that a little bit. Let's talk about why it's hard to do that because I know when you don't have much when you're sleeping on your sister's couch, like anything sounds good. When you are hungry, you're not picky about what you eat, right? So it can go from, I'm starving

to there is a buffet in front of me and we're telling them, no, you've got to focus on just the vegetables. You can't go eat all that junk right now. And it's hard to tell yourself, no, when you've been hungry for this long. Can you maybe explain how you were able, able to have the discipline to focus on that one thing when you're like, oh, it's all there.

I got to go grab everything. I may never get another chance. Yeah, when I was 24, I was like, I'm going to focus. Once I realized that LinkedIn was a way for me to make money, someone paid me $100 when I was kind of doing a LinkedIn profile makeover review for them. And I go, what? You'll pay me for this? And I was like, huh, let me try to find more people that would do this. I kept doing that. And I kept charging more. Then I was like, okay, I'm going to do LinkedIn networking events because Everyone's trying to find a job and find business opportunities. So I did 20 networking events using LinkedIn to bring people together in person back in 2008, 2009.

Then I was like, let me go deeper. Let me write a book about LinkedIn. Let me do webinars about LinkedIn. Let me create a course about LinkedIn. I just said I'm going to do everything on this topic. Then as I started stacking cash and realizing I'm not going to be hungry anymore, I was like, okay, now I can try the next thing. And what I would say to everyone here is, and what I do now for myself because I have kind of an abundance of opportunities that are all amazing that come my way.

My only Achilles heel is me saying yes to too many things that will take me away from the mission. So everyone listening or watching right now, I would say if you don't have a one sentence mission statement for your business and a one sentence mission statement for your personal life, then you're going to be making decisions that aren't going to support you in the long run. So my one sentence mission for my business is similar to my mission for my life that kind of bleed together because I am a personal brand and my mission is my life is to inspire and impact 100 million people every single week to help them live a better life. It's my one sentence mission. So I ask myself, when all these opportunities come in, does this serve the mission yes or no? And if it doesn't, okay, am I willing to do this as a creative side project for fun, knowing

it's going to take my time, attention, and energy way from the main mission and slowing it down. Am I okay with that? Maybe I am because it brings me fun or it's creative or it's interesting or whatever, and that's cool. But the more clear I am on my mission, the easier it is for me to say yes and no to things. Or to know, like, will this help me with the mission? Yes or no. And so maybe someone listening is saying, I want to have $3 million in real estate investments

in the next 15 years, whatever. I'm just making this up. okay, then don't go invest in this other stupid stuff if this is the main mission for your financial business goals. Like, just focus on that. And if you can ask yourself, what would it take to do this in half the time? If my life depended on it and I had to do this in seven and a half years, what would I need to do? What would I need to shift? But again, if my life depended on I had to do it in three years or someone's going to shoot me in the head and I'll die, Yep.

Could I make it happen? The answer is usually, yes, you could. You just aren't having an interesting enough imagination to see an urgency to focus your energy to make it happen. Yeah. And so I feel like a lot of us just aren't clear. And that's when I go back to the greatest minds. They are very clear on their vision of what they want. And they live with a sense of urgency of why they want it and getting it now.

And I try to think of, okay, if this is the big goal, if my life dependent on it, could I do it in half the amount of time? If so, what would need to happen? Who would I need to hire? What relationships would I need to build with distribution? Like whatever may be, I think about the solutions, not, well, is it possible? No, it doesn't matter if it's possible. If I had to, what would I need to do? And I think writing a one-sentence mission statement for your business or financial goals

and then a one sentence for your life and making decisions based on your mission brings you a lot more happiness. Yeah, that's so good. Because, yeah, people will just make choices based on whatever they would. You ever heard of the book, you ever heard of the book Life and Air? It's like, it's like Millionaire with the word life in front of it. No. So it's a phenomenal book.

I'm going to send it to you because it's so good. Yeah, it's like this book, it's about like the rules that we play by in life should be dictated by the purpose of that life. Not like, but we play by other people's rules all the time. So like if the goal of life is to make a million dollars, you're going to play by certain rules. But if the goal of life is not to make a million dollars, you're going to make a million or a billion dollars or whatever, then what rules are we playing by? And all of a sudden makes you just rethink like, what am I doing? Like things like you shouldn't pay off all your debt because you know, if you're paying off

your mortgage at 3%, you can invest that money in the stock market and blah. Like, well, yeah, that's true if the goal of life is to get as rich as possible. But assuming the goal is not that. So in other words, having that vision of like what your life's about. So that's where the book, the title, Life and Air, it's by having more life, not more money. It's probably one of the reasons why, listen, I'm not an educated in real estate as much. as I want to be, and it's probably one of the reasons I've been resistant to buying a home.

Because I don't want to personally, my mission is to invest in my business and my brand to impact more people. And so living in Los Angeles, the smallest home, a two-bedroom, two-bath is, you know, three million in West Hollywood. It's like, why put in whatever that is, 20% of that, 600 or 800 grand, whatever that is, I don't know. And use all that cash when I could put that into hiring 10 people that could support the vision of my life better and invest in other things or invest in a real estate fund that's paying me a dividend every month and use that cash to support my vision. I don't want to deal with the property taxes. I don't want to deal with the headache of cleaning up the pool. I don't want to deal with fixing the roof or whatever, the

appliances. I don't want to deal with that stress of trying to understand it. And so for me, at this point in my life, I'm not married, I don't have kids. I'm sure one day I'll want to buy my home, but I don't see the value of it based on my mission. If all I cared about was something else in my life and having that security and real estate, real estate, real estate, then maybe it would be a priority. Yep. I think that's a really good point when you consider who you take counsel from. It's easy to get into this binary way of thinking, are they good or are they bad? Are you a disciple of Dave Ramsey or Grant Cardone. Grand Cardone's going to say 10 extra life, go big.

Take whatever you thought you could do and multiply it by 10. Dave Ramsey's going to say, don't be stupid. Be careful, play really good defense. Both of them are right in the way that they are advising you for how to build your life. So if you're not clear on where you want to go, how do you know who to listen to? How do you know what coach to be taking advice from? You're just going to be stuck treading waters going in a million directions and not going anywhere. Yeah, and I'm always looking at models in my life.

as an athlete growing up, I had models of the athletes and wide receivers that I looked up to, the positions and the sports that I played. And I would watch how they moved, how they played, their mindset. I would watch their interviews. It's the same thing with the model of the life I'm at now. I really look at, okay, what is the rock doing? What is Oprah doing? What is LeBron James doing?

I see myself as like, if those three had a baby, that's what I would want to be. It's like the rock Oprah LeBron James. Okay, let me look at those models and see what they're all doing. They're all building their brand. They're all giving back. They're all building their own empire and whatever lane it is. And I resonate with all three of them. And I feel like I try to pull from each one of them.

So that's the kind of life that I'm living. That's really good. Brandon, do you have three people that you look to and you say I'd love to be like a combination of these three? David Green, Lewis, Howes, and Kevin? I mean, I definitely do it. But yeah, because it's easy to just go, I want to just be, I want to be super rich like Grand Cardo and I want to be super famous like Oprah. But I also want to look at like, sometimes you see people who have an amazing life in one

area and they have not such an amazing life in the other area, right? So I want to find the people who are most well around it. Oprah has no kids and it's not married and it's like, okay, well, I don't want that. But maybe the rock where he's got kids and he waited 10 years to get married is like something I could do, you know, it's like. I'd be like the rock. That'd be all right. I can handle that.

He actually is one of the more well-rounded people, I feel like, out there. You would be the branch. The branch. That's a rock. Yeah. That's because I'm so awkwardly tall. Yeah. Yes.

Are you six six? Six, five and a half. Unless I'm around a six-five and a half guy. I'm six-four. So you're probably six-four and a half, right? All right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

All right. So I want to know. So, okay, so first of all, I will say this. I'm the real, I mean, I'm like the real estate guy, right? Everyone knows of me like the real estate guy. But I actually agree 100 percent that. I think a lot of people should not invest in real estate, at least not the way that I do or David does. Because their highest and best use is not that.

They're an amazing public speaker. They should probably be doing something with public speaking or they're amazing at writing books or at LinkedIn or whatever. So just everyone listening understands like just because we talk about real estate, like doesn't mean you should necessarily do it. Hence the reason we're now doing these shows here on the weekends as well is like let's talk about other ways to grow success. But then you take that money and you invest it in things that are like super. super good investments, meaning like other people. I think people are one of the best investments, if not, you know, one of the best. You also mentioned you put money in a real estate fund, like a real estate fund. So now your money is growing. So you earn it, you earn it one way,

and you can invest it and grow it in another way. Yeah, I just don't want to manage it because I don't want to deal with the stress of it personally because the idea of real estate excites me. The idea of managing real estate does not excite me. And even the idea of like, okay, well, I can just buy homes and have a property manager. The idea of dealing with the property manager and logistics and stress of that for me does not work for me personally my personality but I understand that if I want to build wealth in America I have to be involved in real estate in some way you know obviously there's people that build companies and sell companies where they can generate extreme amounts of wealth but someone obviously the richest people in

America are involved in real estate and they build their wealth that way so I just understand the value of concentrating effort in my business to generate wealth. there in my business, but diversifying that by putting it in real estate as well, if something happened where my business crashed and I had no money or something. And that's why I think it's important to diversify in some ways, but to have a concentrated effort on one place also. Well, that's what the best systems, like let's take a professional sports team, the best coaches take things off of their players and say you focus on this, right? When you're carrying the burden of everything. It's very hard to be good at any one thing. And I think, Lewis, what you're

describing is you developed that ability to say, if I was to go make money in this area, I would lose money ultimately because I'm not able to excel at what my role is the thing that I'm supposed to get at. And I'm guessing your football career probably had a lot to do with. You got 11 men on a field. They're all doing a very specific thing, but they have to work in harmony. If the left tackle is thinking about what the wide receiver is supposed to be doing, how are they ever going to be good at what they do, right? It takes some trust, it takes some faith, and it takes a good system. Do you think that your background and that helps you develop this understanding of it's okay to say no to a lot of things so I can focus on my job? Yeah, I think so. I mean, as a business

owner, I don't know if you have that luxury to say you still have to kind of learn everything, especially when I started out. I was every player on the field in my business because I had no money. So I'm learning how to hire people, how to manage money, how to make money, how to build a product, how to sell, how to design, website, like everything. And I think like probably like what a coach maybe would have is like, okay, you learn enough of every position and what needs to be in place. And you can step in when you need to to help out there. But truly it's learning how to put the right people in place, which is kind of the stage of the amount now as we continue to hire more and more people. How can I empower them and step away from being the one who's always done it all and just say,

here, I empower you. It's hard to let go of that once you've done it for a long time. But I know that in order for me to reach the next level, I need to let go of something that's been holding me back. And that's definitely one of them. But I think it's, and I've been telling my CEO more and more like, I don't care what I need to invest in or how much this next hire is or whatever it is. I need to be focusing on my skills the best because that's what's going to help us accelerate the mission. And it's hard when you're the business owner because all your own money that you're investing back in people and what if it doesn't work out? I just got to deal with that. It's part of the cost of doing business. But the more I can focus on my skill set that only really

I can do in this business, the more successful it'll be. The more time I spend on trying to do things that I'm not the best at, the longer it'll take to get there. And that translates easily into real estate sales. If you're the guy who analyzes the deal and you're spending all your time talking to contractors and trying to manage a timeline, you're losing money. I just heard Ryan Sourhan talk about this. He's a really, really big real estate agent in New York, one of the biggest in the country. And he made that exact same comment you just said, I need to focus on things only I can do. Only I can talk to the real estate developer. Only I can talk to the guy building the skyscraper that we're going to sell the stuff. I don't have to be the only one doing paperwork. I don't have to

be the only one finding lender partners. And I think that as people are building their portfolio, if they keep that in mind, I have to find the deal. I have to analyze the deal. I have to find the people that I have to bring and get other people doing the rest of it, you find success just starts to become a whole lot easier than when you're trying to do everything. I want to ask you, there's a lot of talk that we could be heading into a recession. And whether we are, whether we're not, there's one coming at some point, just like there's always a recovery coming. What advice do you have for people that can't stop worrying about what if it's not ideal? What if something goes wrong? Well, it's not going to be ideal. I don't think for anyone unless you're like, I don't know, a mask company or something

like that. Yeah, if you make a 95 mask, you probably feel pretty good. There are actually some businesses that are thriving during this time more than ever, but I think it's probably rare. I just come back down to, I'm always thinking if I lost everything, what do I need to have in order to relaunch in a moment so that I want to be worried about money or making money or anything like that? And it comes down to the quality of my relationships comes down to the,

amount of skills that I've developed for myself and continue to develop. And the third thing, it comes down to, well, I would say relationships slash reputation I have with those relationships, like their ability to believe in me, skills I have. And then also the third thing is, wow, man, I had it, but I can't remember what it is right now. Skills, relationships, I'll just, I'll just leave it with those two. I can't remember what the third one is. But I feel like if you have that and you have a personal brand, then you can always launch something again. You can always bounce back. Even if I, even if I lost everything, I feel like I've got those three things, which I feel like I could call up one person and do a business deal with and make money.

I could come up with a new product or project and launch it to my audience. Or even if I lost my audience, I could find one partner say, hey, can we launch us to your audience and do a 50-50 rev deal? I just feel like, oh, the third thing I was going to say is my ability to embrace my insecurities and fear. I feel like people are afraid that their legs are getting cut out underneath them during this next year. People are afraid. And I dealt with that fear 12 years ago when I was going after my dream and then I got cut out during the recession. I got a lot. I got injured, there was no money, and I realized I could survive and make it. Now, I had no kids, no responsibilities, and I had a sister that let me live for free for a year and a half. So I had

some support there, obviously, which would be different now. But I feel like this is something I'm always coaching people is every single year, I write down a list of my three biggest fears. I write down a list. And again, it's important, I think, to have a mission statement for your finances or your business career and a mission for your life. And at the top of the year, I write down what are my three biggest fears. These are usually psychological fears, internal fears, insecurities. Not like I'm afraid of spiders, but more of like, I'm afraid of people judging me if I launched this project.

I'm afraid to put this book out there. I'm afraid if I do my first real estate deal, I'm going to lose money. Whatever that fear is, it's usually like an inner psychological conversation that we have. And every new success or accomplishment is a different season and bigger fears and insecurities could potentially come up, even if you're conquering ones from the past. And I feel like a lot of people aren't doing that experiment on a yearly basis. And it hurts us because I felt like right when COVID hit, I was like, I'm prepared for this. I was like, even if I lose everything, I'm prepared.

Because for the last 12 years, all I've been doing has been tackling my insecurities and fears, killing my ego as often as I can, humbling myself through my failures, and saving. You know, I've been saving, so it's like, okay, if everything goes to crap, I've got savings. Not everyone is starting at that place where they don't have savings, but I feel like if we're always staying ready, we don't have to get ready. That's a, you know, a football terminology. It's like, stay ready so you don't got to get ready. And we stay ready by constantly conquering our insecurities, our fears, and our self-doubt. Challenges most of us shy away from. from it because it's extremely uncomfortable to face our insecurities and self-doubt.

It's really tough to face judgment, criticism, the fear of failure, the fear of success. These are all things that are hard. But when we practice them on a daily basis, I just feel like it makes you indestructible when chaos and a recession ensues. So let me give an example, and I'm curious of how you would address someone like that. So one thing I struggled with for a long time as a big fear of mine was like the sphere of rejection, right? I mean, I think a lot of us start with it. We want to be liked. And I had I had this, like, I was going to start a real estate fund, right? So I was going to do this.

But I kept resisting it for years because I said, I don't like raising money. And when my, I, I talked to this on a recent podcast, and it was I'll say it again now is I just, I have his coach and he was asking me, well, why don't you like raising money? I was like, well, and it really came down to when he asked me why about 10 times is because I feel like when when people don't give me, when they say no to me, they are saying they don't like me. And like it was a fear of rejection, right? If you're not being liked. So how, like, you know, I worked through that and now today I have a big real estate fund, you know, so I feel like I came out the other side. But how do you recommend, like, what do you do to overcome fear,

to overcome, like, once you identify what your fears are, like, how do you overcome them? How do you get through that? Have you ever watched Batman? I love Batman. Dark night. Yeah. Batman begins. I'm a fan of those movies. You know, it's a, it's a cliche story, I guess, but when Bruce Wayne falls in the well and he's afraid of the bats, he comes back later in his life and he says, I'm still afraid I need to live in the darkness. I need to live with the bats. I need to become one with the bat and become the bat essentially.

And for me, that's why I think it's important to I first identify what is my fear. So I'll give an example of public speaking. I could not stand up in front of a group of three, four, or five people and share a one-minute speech, a one-minute thought. lot. Really, I could only speak to people like one-on-one. But when it was a group of people, it was like I didn't know how to manage it. I felt like people were laughing at me. I felt like

I wasn't interesting. I felt like they were going to talk about me behind my back. I was completely insecure with this. And when I meant this mentor, he was like, you need to go to you need to go to Toastmasters every week until this is no longer a fear. Because whether you're looking for a job and you're going to be presenting something in a boardroom in a company, or you want to be a professional speaker or you're going to be an entrepreneur. Whatever it is, this is a skill you're going to need in any area of your life if you want to persuade people and make an impact. Because if you can't communicate your message, it's going to be truly a lot harder to make an impact. And as an athlete, I felt like I could get away with it because I never had to speak.

I just had to perform on a field. And I let my actions be my words to inspire people. But I no longer had that, I guess, thing to fall back on. I couldn't just perform and be an athlete and not have to say anything. If I wanted to get a job, I had to do an interview or anything. And so I remember being terrified for months in Toastmasters, but I gave myself the mission and the goal. I said, I'm going to go here every week until I'm not afraid, until I'm not sweating, until I'm not trembling, until I'm not stuttering. And for months, all those things happened. And what I did is I was like, okay, I'm going to film myself every time. I'm going to experience extreme embarrassment and humiliation over and over and over again

until it doesn't make me humiliated anymore. I would watch myself and I would agonize on the game film, watching back my speeches of how horrible I was, how I didn't have any vocabulary, how I couldn't look people in the eyes. And I said, okay, what's one thing I can do a little bit better next week for my next speech? And every week I'll get a little bit better and I'll say, wow, okay, I did do this better.

I improved there. I got better feedback. And I created an experiment for myself where I said, I'm going to humiliate myself over and over again until I don't feel humiliating anymore. And I think a lot of us don't put ourselves in that environment of pain, emotional pain. I did this with when I was going into my junior year in high school. I was terrified to speak to girls. I don't know if you guys were like super confident talking to girls growing up, but I had zero

confidence and I wanted to be liked by girls and guys right and I could not ever get the courage to go up and like talk to a girl that I was that was cute or attracted to so going to my junior year I said okay enough is enough I'm sick and tired of feeling like so insecure all the time so for one summer I gave myself an experiment I said every single day when I see a girl that I'm attracted to or I get butterflies when I see them I'm going to walk right up to them and I'm going to have a For the first two weeks, it was horrifying how embarrassed I was so bad because I'm just like, my name, like stuttering. I have no clue what I'm saying.

I have zero skills. I have zero confidence. And girls would laugh at me. Girls would run away from me. It was like horrifying. Everything you don't want to happen as a young boy happened in the way you don't want it. And I just said, I'm going to keep committing to this. And I'm going to try a little bit better the next time.

and I'm just trying to figure out what works. And by the end of the summer, I swear to you, I'm having the time of my life. I'm talking to, you know, I'm 15 or 16. I'm talking to 40-year-old women just to, like, experiment. Like, okay, I'm just going to say hi to them. I'm not trying to pick any girls up. I'm just want to overcome this fear. And every year I do this.

I write down my fears and I go all in on them until they become a strength, until it becomes something that I really feel like I'm good at or not afraid of anymore. And so it's identifying it and then saying, okay, I'm going to go all in and experience the rejection over and over. Like you should say, okay, I'm going to ask 10 people that I really respect and I'm going to experience them saying no, rejecting me, laughing at me, saying, no, it's not right. It's not good enough. And then saying thank you for the feedback because they're going to tell you what they need in order to invest in your fund. And you can say, okay, what would my fund need to look like in order for you to give me a million dollars? what would it need to have for you to feel like it's it's worthy of your time what would I need to be

creating for you in order to trust me more and then you can get amazing feedback so everything I do is just getting feedback through the humiliation but a lot of us never want to experience that failure or humiliation because it's so painful it sucks I don't like it but I know it's necessary to get what I want yeah that's powerful stuff yeah just the idea of like identifying what that fear is and then trying to embrace that. It's like, I'm going to improve that. It's intentionally trying to change your life. It's so hard.

It's so hard. I did the same thing. Another quick story. I mean, every year I do this, I did this with salsa dancing. I went to a salsa club one time when I was 20, I don't know, 20, 23, 24, right around this time I was on my sister's couch. And I was mesmerized. Mesmerized by, it was all Latinos.

I was the only white guy. Imagine being 6'4 in a salsa club with all like 5-5, Latinos, right? And I stand out like a sore thumb and I would go there every week, once a week for months and just watch in the corner. Never dance because I was so scared. But I wanted to learn how to salsa dance, but I just didn't want to embarrass myself because everyone was so amazing. And eventually one girl dragged me out. This is after months of resisting and never going to dance, but I would be there to watch. She drags me out and I literally am sweating. I'm so humiliated. She's teaching me the basic steps and I'm like, everyone is laughing at me.

Everyone thinks I'm an idiot. I don't even know what I'm doing. I can't understand this. I'm stepping on her. After about 10 minutes, I look up, no one cares. No one's looking at me. No one's laughing at me. If anything, they're like, yeah, great job. Like, keep it up. Like, come back. They were encouraging. And it's what made me say, okay, I'm going all in on this. And I'm obsessed over salsa dancing every day for the next three and a half months, taking group classes, taking private lessons, studying on YouTube, practicing in the mirror, until I wasn't afraid of it anymore. And now I travel the world, or I did before COVID, traveled the world to the biggest cities in the world. And I'll go anywhere where people don't speak the language.

I can walk right up to any club to the best dancer in the club and dance with confidence and ease because I allowed myself to feel humiliation for months. Well, that's the Batman story or, you know, morrow. that he faced those bats. There's a scene where he's standing in the cave and they're all running right by him. And he's terrified, but he's making himself. And he actually harnessed it.

And the whole Batman idea is that he now uses that same fear against his enemies. You were able to harness your fear of the dancing and the talking to women. And now you use that for the business that you built. You make a living talking to people and all kinds of different people. And I never imagined I'd be able to do this.

But it was like I embraced it. And that's the awesome part about when you do something that emotionally difficult, that I can just imagine as you were talking, watching you in that Salsa Studio, sweating and terrified. We're using words like I was scared, but that doesn't really do justice to the emotion that you're actually feeling. Trembling. Yes, right? And the price you paid was that you faced it.

And the reward is now this career and this brand that you've built. And that's just why it's so worth pursuing because you don't know how amazing it's going to be on the other side. Exactly. And Brandon, probably for you, you know, you were afraid, I don't know how long you were thinking about launching this fund or how many years, how many years were you thinking about it? Yeah, at least probably five years of me thinking I should take this to the next level. Wow. And you probably, did you get some rejections when you finally started asking people? I asked two of my good friends and they rejected me.

That stopped me for like two more years because I asked two friends. They said no. And you were like, okay, if my two friends won't invest in me, then why? How am I reached out to strangers that I better than know? I found out later. They just didn't have any money. Of course. Exactly.

Yeah. That's the thing. But the more you experienced it, you got more comfortable with it. And I'm sure you started asking people and people said yes. And then some people said no. And you're like, okay, I'll just keep asking. Yeah. It's almost a numbers game more than anything now.

It is interesting. The other thing I find interesting with the insecurity and the fear thing. And I've shared this on the podcast before. But you know, like my biggest insecurity in life, my biggest insecurity has always been my voice. Ever since I was a kid, I have a Lisp and I was in speech therapy and like I've always struggle with it. And isn't it ironic sometimes?

It's like the Batman thing, right? Like the thing that I am most ashamed about in my life is the thing that I am being used the widest. You know, like public speaking terrified me and then talking in front of people. So I didn't even know you out of this, but I couldn't even hear it. Okay, I work on it.

But it's like I have a lazy talking. And yeah, it's ironic that like that stuff sometimes works that way when you lean into it. Like the first, do a podcast, no way. I would never do a podcast. That'd be ridiculous. Exactly. You lean into it.

But I think by, I think people are more. inspired by those that have some adversity or challenge and and they keep doing it in spite of their adversity so even if you're like hey guys i'm really nervous on this first podcast and i you know i'm insecure because i got a list or whatever and i've never been on radio i don't know what i'm doing but god i'm so excited about to teach you about real estate because it's transformed my life and i feel like i'm doing a disservice by not overcoming this and just sharing it with you people are more inspired the fact that you're not this super confident speaker that you don't have this training

but you have a wisdom that you want to share, and that's what they get excited about. Yeah, that's actually I think that the huge part of it is like the heart at which you teach that stuff, the heart at which you do that stuff. Yeah, I feel the same way. I go to Jujitsu now. We had a Jocco Willink on the show and he challenged me to,

yeah, he's great, challenge me to go and do it. So I go the next day. It was the most painfully embarrassing awkward. Like I didn't even get on the mat. I just stood there like an idiot in the wall, you know? And I still feel like that every time I show up, every time. But I'm going to keep showing up. It's the same thing because I'm like,

eventually I'll be good at this or I'll figure it out. Exactly. I beat a 75-pound, like 60-year-old lady last time. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. I felt really good about myself. Yeah, it's that thing.

I also, on a very limited version of the story you told about, you know, going to the salsa dancing and, you know, taking those fears. I used to do this experiment. You ever go to the Minnesota State Fair? You ever go up to Minnesota when you were younger to the State Fair? No, I went to Southwest Minnesota State, but I never went to the Fair. You're missing out. It's amazing.

They got Sweet Martha's cookies. They're the best childhood cookies you'll have. And you, of course, it's a state fair. So you don't buy them by the cup or by the plate, by the bucket. It's like this giant bucket of cookies. And so I would make it a point because I was so afraid of getting rejected and even talking to strangers. I would go and ask everybody with a bucket if I could have a cookie. It was like whenever I'd go to the fare, I'd ask if I got a cookie.

Because it just, it was a small thing that forced me to face a little bit of fear. Yeah. And then I got for cookies. I think like one person ever turned me down. I do this at college like football games when people are tailgating. I always do this because I'm. like, I'm not going to go spend and buy like an $8 dollar brohers or a hot dog.

Everyone's making their own burgers and hot dogs and people got so much stuff with their food that I'd just be like, hey, is anyone to get a dog? I can, like, can I buy it for a dollar from you? And they'll usually just give it to you. Yeah. Like it's just risking people saying no and the fear of humiliation for five seconds

and then moving on. But the rewards are so much greater. And I always use this line. Like, I just feel like I get upgraded on planes and hotels. and free stuff all the time because I use this one line that has transformed my last 10 years and my friend Paul Evans told me this line 10 years ago

he said anytime you want something say what's the chance that I could get a free hot dog what's the chance you'd be willing to give me a cookie what's the chance you can give me a free upgrade in this room whatever it is and what's the chance every time I use that it almost always works

and what's the chance you could hook me up here what's the chance you could do this for me it's just risking for someone to say no, but what if they say yes? Yeah, that's really good. Well, phrasing it that way is really smart because if you ask me, what's the chance, David, that you would sell my house for free? I would say it's not going to happen, but if that was something you wanted, here's a way that we could make sense of that, right?

You've experienced a small amount of rejection, but more importantly, you are going to receive what it would take to get there. And I think, like Brandon, I can just picture you so much of your personality makes more sense after sharing that cookie story because you're very hard to say no to. I think that getting rejected a couple times and not liking that sting caused you to respond by preparing ahead of time, okay, if I make my voice sound like this or I don't ask right away. I got to say something else first to get the conversation going, then I'm going to bring it in.

You've naturally built up this way to connect with people because you don't want to get told no for this free cookie. And now it became a strength. I mean, I think that that's really brilliant that you guys mentioned that. That's funny. The cookie master. What are those cookies? Sweet Marthes.

Sweet Marthas. Sweet Marthas. Yeah. Yeah. Sweet Marthas. Yeah, they're by the bucket. They're amazing. For decades, real estate has been a cornerstone of the world's largest portfolios.

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price beat guarantee. That means faster closing, the best terms, zero guesswork. That's Dominion Financial. Check them out at BiggerPockets.com. slash dominion. Again, that's biggerpockets.com slash dominion. All right. Let's jump down. I want to go into a slightly different topic here before we get you out of here. I mean, you connect with a ton of big guests in your shows. I mean, like, you got like so, like, I'm always just like an awe of like, oh man, Lewis is interviewing that person and you were on Ellen. Like this, like, that's amazing, right? I want to know like how you connect with these people. How are you, like, what, what do you do for networking? What's your tips for connecting with it? Because this applies to people.

you might want to be trying to connect with that local investor or that local TV station. You want to get some press for your company, whatever. Like, what have you found has just been really helpful for networking? That's one of my skills, I guess, that I've been doing since my LinkedIn days back in 2008, 2009 was I learned quickly how to message someone on LinkedIn and get a response. Because I was reaching out to like the successful leaders in like the Columbus area originally. And first, no one was replying to me when I said, hey, can I pick your brain for 10 minutes? I'm a struggling person with no direction of my life and I need help.

No one cared. But when I started to try different things and make it about them and make it about their success and do my research and figure out what is meaningful to them, then I started crafting my messages differently. So for example, I was trying to find three things that we had in common in the first sentence of any message. So I might say, okay, what do we have in common based on their LinkedIn profile? I see that they went to Ohio State, and I see that they have an interest in salsa dancing,

and also that we have three mutual friends. I would use those three references in the beginning of the first sentence. Hey, I saw that you went to Ohio State, so to my brother, and I'm a big Ohio State Buckeye fan. I see that you love salsa dancing as one of your interest. I've been dancing for three years, and that, you know, Brandon, David and Kevin are mutual friends. and Brandon said something really nice about you the other day when I talked to him about you. First line. It's like when you find three things that are mutual interest, people are automatically going to say,

I'm going to feel bad if I at least don't reply. Yeah. Okay. That's step one. Get them to be interested to then want to at least reply. Second sentence is all based on research. I really loved what you did in this. I really love this video you did here.

I really love like how you went from this part of your conversation. career to the next part of your career is really inspiring. Something about them that is interesting to you about their success. And then the third thing for me is all about how can I serve them, not how can they serve me. So I would say early on when I had nothing to give, I would say, I'd love to learn about your story of success and how you went from here to here. I'd love to hear that if you're willing to share with me five minutes about your story of success. never in that three-sentence email draft did I say, can you give me advice?

Can you help me find a job? Can you help me do this? Can you invest in something? It was more about building a relationship and creating connection and trying to add value. Now that 10, 12 years ago, when I had no value, it was, can you share your story of success? Because that was the only thing I could think of.

But what I realized is when people, when they've achieved something, most of the time, if you phrase it the right way, they want to tell their story of success. They want to tell you how smart I am, how I overcame this challenge, and why I'm so smart, essentially. We're fed by that kind of ego of like, oh, I appreciate you acknowledging that I've succeeded. You see me, you hear me. Let me share back with you.

And I would get on the phone or a lot of these people would meet me in person for coffee or something and give me 30, 60 minutes. And I would just sit there and hear them share their story. Never would I ask them for anything. never would I ask for advice. But the way I phrased the questions, they would give me the advice that I needed based on them telling their success story. And at the end of it, I wouldn't ask for anything.

And they would say, yeah, that was a fun conversation. Is there anything I can do for you? And I'd say, maybe I'd say, yeah, you know, I'm really looking for this, and I'd love some support if you have it. But most of the time, I would just say, no, I'm not looking for anything.

But if I can connect you with anyone in the future, please let me know. And I would never, I still would never ask for anything. And I would kind of delay the ask for many, many years and just try to give, give, give. That's kind of been my last 12 year makeup is like,

never ask, always give and serve in some way possible. And giving might just be listening. You know, that's what might it be and just saying, what's your biggest challenge right now? And them telling me, well,

we're really struggling in our company with finding a designer. And I'd say, okay, let me find you a designer and match them to you. It's just all been about value. That's how I've connected with a lot of people.

I'm also big on following up and following through. As an athlete, you score points in the follow-through. And so getting someone like Kevin Hard on, I messaged his publicist every month for four and a half years. And it just happened to be the right timing. He had a self-help book that came out, and it made sense to come on the show then. It didn't make sense when he had all these other movies,

but now it makes sense. But I kept showing up and adding value to the publicist. I try to do the best job I can in the internet. interviews that they want to tell their friends. It's just a matter of showing up and added value. And as you grow, you know, as you get a bigger and bigger personal brand and more people know you, how do you balance your ego, you know, between like, oh, I'm so good, I did this really well.

You know, I'm sure you probably read ego as the enemy or no of it, Ryan Holiday's book. Right? So like, how do you balance that? I'm so great. I do things that make me feel humiliated and take my ego down, whether it be an intentionally or not intentionally to remind myself, I'm just a human. Yeah. I've got a girlfriend that will quickly bring me back to where I need to be.

If I have an ego, I've got family that'll do that for me, my team. I'm just constantly trying to be grateful and humble the best as I can, but also live in confidence and kind of live in both worlds. But, yeah, I mean, social media will quickly bring you back down if you do something that people don't like and just trying to be like, okay, well, let me check myself and see if, was that accurate should I have said that you know do I believe in that or do I need to take ownership and responsibility and move forward in a different way so yeah is that one of the things you've had to confront when it comes to what you're afraid of every year is actually becoming so successful that

your ego gets out of hand more of like my audience leaving me or whatever like judging me leaving me you know we talked about this before we started it's like I like to bring on different interesting perspectives on my show, and sometimes people don't like that. And they think, how dare you, Lewis, like elevate someone's voice who believes in this. But I'm always like, you know, if I don't take risks and I always play it safe, then where's the interest of the fun and that as well? And if I'm trying to have an intention to help people always, I feel like we need to have conversations with people that maybe don't believe in the same things. If we're trying to find connection and unity and healing. We've got to learn from different perspectives. And that's

going to take me being the, essentially the facilitator or messenger or the personality, curating conversations, taking the heat sometimes. And it's unfortunate when you see a bunch of people unfollow you in a day or leave a bunch of nasty comments or, you know, a couple of years ago, I went through a breakup and the person I dated decided to say, well, here's all the things that Lewis did wrong and what he did and this and my feelings on him publicly, which I thought wasn't really cool. But I, so I had to learn how to take heat from people judging without actually knowing the full story or actually knowing the truth.

They heard the truth from one person. And I never shared the truth, my truth. But I just had to accept, okay, people are going to hate me, gossip and judge me because they think something, whether it's true or not. and they don't know the context. And that's tough to not be able to kind of defend yourself, to be like, oh, people just assume this and they have no clue. But it was also like, okay, this is humbling.

I get to like let go of all these needs to please everyone. I'm not going to be able to please everyone. So in some way, it gave me a sense of freedom, like going through this kind of an ego death of this person blasting me and shaming me about whatever because they were hurt and they can share whatever they want. but I had to let go of the need to everyone to like me, which was hard because it's like,

like you said, Brandon, we want everyone to like us and we're not intentionally trying to upset people. Yeah. And when I've built goodwill and people and all I've tried to do is be positive for seven years, like, man,

it's tough. So going through, that was like a fear. And going through it, made me realize, okay, I'm okay on the other side. I'm still alive.

My business is here. And I've actually cut out people in my life that were taking so much energy from me that were fake friends who quickly judge me. Now I can focus my energy and attention on the people that I know are here for me, even if I made a mistake or something happens or people judge me. So it was actually a powerful experience that I want to take back. Yeah. I guess that probably unlocked pieces of your own talent that were being shoved down out of fear

that if this comes out, people might see this or people might see that. And that was a whole new set of bats that you're going to have to confront when that comes. Absolutely. I was definitely afraid of other people's opinions and needing to look good and needing people to like me. Yeah. And I still, I'm not trying to do things to get people to not like me. It's not like I intentionally want people to get mad at me, but I'm also going to stand for what I believe in and share my truths on things, knowing that some people aren't going to like it and people are going to leave me and people are going to be upset and hurt by it. And it's unfortunate, but I'm not afraid to put myself out there as my mind. much anymore when I make certain decisions.

Yeah. Yeah, really good stuff, man. Hey, you know, we're going to head over in a minute to over to the last segment of the show. It's called our famous four. But before we get there, is there anything like, I mean, there's probably, you know, roughly give or take a quarter million people listening right now to this. Like what, what do you need? What can our audience bring to you right now?

Is there like guests you're looking for or connections or anything that would just like benefit your life that maybe somebody out there could help you with? my, I mean, my top five list of guests since I first started, I mean, Will Smith and The Rock, and Jim Carrey have been in the top kind of five from the beginning. So if anyone knows, but I'm kind of close to their teams. You know, Jim Carrey lives like a half mile for me out here in Maui. Really? Yeah.

It's funny because I moved into a building here in L.A. And like the next couple weeks, I saw him in the building, and he was actually living in the top of the penthouse of the building I lived in. I think he's moved right now from there. But, yeah, Jim Carrey, if anyone knows Jim Carrey, I'd love to interview him. I actually've talked to his publicist for years too, but if anyone has a closer connection, The Rock has been on my hit list since seven years. I feel like we have a similar story from being kind of failed football players into

building brands. Obviously, his brand's way bigger. But you'll catch him. You got this. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But yeah, I'm just here to serve people and help people. but always looking for a great guest. That's cool, man.

Yeah. Very cool. Well, with that said, let's head over to the last segment of the show. It's our famous four. The part of the show where we ask the same four questions every guest every week. We're just going to modify the first question slightly

because it's normally a real estate related one. I normally ask what's your favorite real estate related book, but I want to actually go to other resources. Like, what are some like either podcasts or like, you know, online website? How many people say rich dad, poor dead? Yeah, everybody says rich. Everyone. Yeah, I said it.

It's a great book. But it's like the book, yeah. But what resources do you rely? We'll ask you other like business books here in a second. But just in terms of like resources that have helped you a lot in your life, what would you point people towards? Business resources. It could be business or life.

Or just any resources. Any resources that you just think people should be checking out right now to benefit themselves. Oh, man. Gosh. Monday.com, which is like a project management tool that we just started using to help have all of our systems, processes, documents all in one place, as opposed to what I did for most 10 years

of just having Google Docs spread out everywhere and managing it that way. So that's just the first thing I came to mind. It's top of mind. Resources. Yeah, it could be that. It could be like, you know, anything. A speaker you like to listen to you.

Like, yeah. I really like listening to people that have kind of spiritual truth. I don't consider myself religious, but I love spiritual thought leaders who keep me grounded and keep me thinking of a bigger purpose and a mission for life. I'm interviewing this guy, Rob Bell later this week.

Oh, yeah. I know Rob Bell. I know him, but. I've had him on a few times, and he's a buddy of mine. And you're at Love Wins and Velvet, Elvis, and yeah, yeah. Yeah, I just listened to his podcast is great. His books are great if you just feel like you need some spiritual grounding in your life, no matter what religion you are.

He's great. I mean, Jay Shetty, I think is great. He's got some good stuff on just keeping you ground as well. I think a lot of us just need to continue to stay grounded in our mindset because with all the distractions, all the fear, anxiety, the most powerful thing we can do is take care of our mind and our thoughts. And, you know, 84% of our thoughts on a daily basis are recurring thoughts. And most of those thoughts for most people are negative. And so if we can learn how to reprogram the way we think internally and start saying nicer things to ourselves and start having more belief in ourselves. and start having more belief in ourselves

as opposed to saying, I'm never going to mount anything, this is going to fail, what if this goes wrong? What if all these things go right? And what if it goes bigger and better than anything we've ever imagined? What if we had those conversations with ourselves?

So finding people like Rob Bell, Jay Shetty, who really give us tools to kind of stay in that mental state of peace and calm, I think, is the greatest enemy is like negative thought. And it's what we're,

holds us back. So that would be a couple people I'd recommend. And then maybe a book. I mean, I always go back to the alchemist. I don't read too many books all the way through, but the alchemist, I feel like is a great reminder for people to remember who they are and what their, what their mission is. So if this one sentence mission statement resonated with you, I would say, go back and read that book if you haven't read The Alchemist and give yourself the homework of writing down a one-sentence mission statement in the next 24-4.4. 48 hours, messaging you guys on social media, or you can tag me at Lewis Howells on social media and sharing your one-sentence mission because I believe that resource of you having

focus and writing it up on your wall or putting it on your phone is going to make your life that much more amazing when you're clear on your mission. That's awesome. That's awesome. What about some of your favorite hobbies? It's also dancing is a big passion of mine. I also do acro yoga, even though I have. haven't done any of these activities in about a year and a half because of COVID and other things.

But acro yoga is where it's like partner yoga and I like putting people on my hands, doing handstands in the air while I'm standing up, kind of like acrobatic stuff. I'm a big basketball player, love basketball. But I'm really just a student of my hobby every day is like studying people, observing people, listening to people and trying to become a master of human behavior because I feel like if we can understand why people are the way they are, then we can connect to them and we can both benefit in certain ways. So I'm always studying people.

And I'm watching a lot of, I watch a lot of movies. I feel like I get inspired through movies and it gives me a lot of creative ideas. So movies are hobbies too. There you go. All right. Well, my last question of the day and then we'll let David ask his last. What do you think separates successful people?

If you had to kind of boil this down, I know we kind of asked this earlier, but like what separates success people from those who give up, they fail or they just never get started? Obsession. I feel like it's hard to fail when you're obsessed about something. And something I've done, I don't know if this is just part of my makeup or part of whatever, but I'm like a bulldog. I'm just obsessively wanting to know the answer. I'm obsessfully wanting to get the result.

and I'll do whatever it takes to make it happen. So for me, that obsession, I've heard Connemagher talk about it. He's like, I'm just obsessed with the process. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed, and I love it. Grant Cardone talks about being obsessed. I mean, I don't think you can achieve great results by not being obsessed, by dabbling, by trying to do everything,

by hitting the wall on every spot as opposed to like, I'm going to drill in this one spot over and over again, to break through the wall. So some level of obsession on your craft and on your dreams instead of dabbling. I love that. When you pair the strong, intense desire to get good at something with the concentration of putting it all into one area, you become that laser that can drill right through whatever's in front of you as opposed to the light bulb, which spreads its light everywhere, but it doesn't

really get through obstacles. You know, that's at the other end of your success, or before you get there, is going to going to be some form of obstacle. And if you want to get through that. Yeah, I think the, I think the books, what essentialism where it's like, yeah, they show a circle of energy in every direction and it goes nowhere and then a circle with like one arrow and it's going in one direction. So it's all the same concept. Just focused energy. Yeah. That's what that's what you teach at the school of greatness, right? Focus energy. I love that. That's awesome. All right, Lewis, well, thank you very much for sharing your wisdom. It's not just your wisdom, but the collective wisdom of all

these people that you've talked to that you brought in with us. You've been a bit of a laser yourself and I really appreciate you for that. Can you tell us where our listeners can find out more about you? Yeah, Lewis How is anywhere online and School of Greatness podcast or on audio or YouTube and yeah, just say hi. Very cool. Awesome. Well, thank you. Appreciate you a ton. And again, I've been looking up to you for years. So it's great to find the connect and appreciate you guys. Yeah, I got to dive into more real estate in the future once I find the excitement and the interest in it. because I don't think people should dive in unless they're really curious and passionate about it.

But one day when I'm at that next season of life, I'll be reaching out and saying, hey, what should I do? Should I do duplexes? Should I do renovations? Should I do commercial real estate? What should I do? And then I'll learn from you guys.

You know, it's funny. It's actually like, this is true story. So back, I don't know, 10 years ago now, maybe 12 years ago when I first got into like the world of like online, a little bit of education online, I started an old blog called Real Estate in your 20s. And my, like, I remember my original goal was someday, I wanted to be the guy that like celebrities and podcasts as an author would go talk to when they wanted no real.

That was the vision, which is funny today. Now I get phone calls from people. I'm like, you're asking my podcast? Like they're asking, yeah. So how many? What you guys restart before the year? What does it look like? What do you guys have?

David, what do you got, David? I'm at just under 40 single family homes for my own personal portfolio. Wow. And is that spread through a few states? Is that at one state? Is that? Yeah. that's over five different states. I wrote, the first book I wrote for this company, Bigger Pockets Publishing,

was called Long Distance Real Estate Investing. So I was a police officer, worked a bunch of overtime, obsessed on that one thing, saved up the money, bought the rental properties. Yep. And then just like what you said, I got good at that one thing, and then I expanded out from there. I started writing blog articles to teach people how to do it. That led to book deals. That led to teaching. That led to this podcast. Now I'm a real estate broker in California. And I help clients to do loans. How many did you buy while you were still a cop, full-time cop? 25. No way.

Dude, Louis, you should hear, you should hear David's, like, frugal life. Every penny goes into like this 80,000 dollar mortgage. You should hear his story. His story is insane. That's impressive. Yeah. If you can work 100 hours a week. If you can buy 25 in whatever 15, 20 years as a cop with a, I don't know, I'm assuming

you're only making 80 grand a year max, depending on what city you're in, that's some like, you got to get creative. You got to find, like, oh, where do I get the loans from? Where do I do this? How much of my money do I have to put down? So you're living proof that if you could do it, then anyone could do it at that level. David's the picture of like focused energy on. And your main thing is just like single family homes.

Yep, that's what I did. But see, that built into a business now where I help other people who I can help them buy properties and we can help do the loans. And your point was so smart that you get really good at that thing and you expand out. from there. And I just, I know I've said that like five times, but for everyone listening, that is like the recipe for being successful. Just curious, of those 40 homes, how much in cash every year does that bring in income after paying the 10% fees, after the property taxes, after fixing the roofs and everything? That nets me right around a quarter million on the single

family portfolio. But a lot of the wealth you build from real estate isn't just the cash flow that comes in. It's paying down the mortgages. The property's appreciating. So at a certain point, I will sell those, transfer those into like what Grant Cardone does, and that will probably go up to around a million a year in passive income that the real estate generates for me. Yeah. And buy the larger apartment complex. That's exactly right.

The units. Yep. Yeah. So real estate really get rich slow game. It should be boring and it should just be focused energy drilling away, you know, like building a tunnel right through that mountain. Yeah. It's almost like the first home, even if you're like, ooh, I'm making $435 a month and, and,

rental income after expenses. But at the end of the year, you really don't because you got to fix everything. That's exactly right. It takes like that third or fourth home where you're like now making 500 a month, 700 a month. Because I've refined the system. But 10 years in, 15 years in, that 400 is now 1,000 or 1,500 as inflation goes over. And it's like planting a tree.

That tree grows and it starts to put off a lot more fruit. Yeah. Get rich slow. Yeah. And what about you, Brandon? Yeah, I got a couple dozen like smaller deals. and then I got into the larger stuff. So I buy mostly mobile home parks today.

So I think I have like 600 pads for mobile home parks. 600 lots. Like lots, yeah, with homes on them. Interesting. Do you own a whole mobile park? Yeah, like we own the land and the whole thing. And then people own their own homes and actually rent them out, which is a fascinatingly weird.

So you own the land, you don't own any homes on the mobile side. Yeah, we end up owning some homes just out of necessity because people leave and stuff. Yeah. Yeah, we don't want to be the landowners. They just rent the land. Yeah. to put their home. Yeah,

yeah, pretty much. Wow. Which is a, yeah, which basically means they do their own repairs and maintenance,

which is one of the reasons they stay forever. That's their own home. Yeah, that's some nice. You never have to fix anything up. That's another level. That's like,

exactly why he went there because he doesn't like dealing with headaches. I don't like contractors and headaches. No, but pay me my land rent, but do you get less rent for the land? Yes. Yes.

It's like a couple hundred dollars a month. It's not much, but it's not much, but I have to deal with all the stress. Exactly. And when you have six, you know, 100 of them. Well, he can scale bigger because he's not dealing with the stress. So he can go 10 times

bigger with the same work. Interesting. Well, the beautiful part of a mobile home parks is the stories you get. We went to do a bank robber. Actually, went and robbed the bank. That was amazing. We had a prostitute that wasn't actually a prostitute. She was actually robbing people, but who couldn't then report it because they were coming. Oh my gosh. Sorry. So anyway, those are fun. That's why we're in mobile home parks. What's the vision for you, Brandon, 2025? If you could have anything in real estate vision, what would that be? I love how you're definitely an interviewer, right? You know how to turn this around.

This is fascinating. Oh, really, the true story, this is much longer story, but I had a vision I said two years ago, a year and a half ago. I said $50 million in real estate by December 31st, 2021. It's actually on my wall in a huge vision statement. I'm big on vision stuff. Anyway, and we're going to hit that here in about two months from now. And so now I'm like-50 million in real estate.

Is that through the fund? Yeah, I wanted to own, yeah, 50 million in real estate through the fund. And so now it's like, well, what's the next level? So we're kicking around, I don't know, like how ambitious do we own to be? Honestly, that's the biggest question. Yeah, it depends on your life. It's like, do you want to be Grant Cardone and keep 10xing every year?

Or do you want to like, oh, I'm making a few million a year and I feel pretty good? And I really like surfing and I really like snorkeling and hanging out in Maui with my family and my kids. And so currently it's 50 million a years where I'm setting out at. We'll see if I'm going to 10x that. But 50 million a year is a good number. That's great.

That's awesome. What about you, David? Yeah, where are you doing, David? Like five years from now, my business goals are to have two businesses that make seven figures a month and then probably about eight to nine other income streams. So that would be I'm a mortgage broker in California as well as a real estate broker. So building up my teams to where I'm doing that. And then just basically funneling 100% of that income into owning more real estate. More real estate. Yeah. And then my

role will just be to be the top real estate educator in the country. So I just teach everybody. This is how you do it. And then those businesses create the income that I I can then put into deals. I can take those deals, make it a case study to teach people and kind of create like a self-sustaining ecosystem that just spins faster and faster as I grow. That's exciting, man. All right. Well, now I've got to ask the same question to you, man.

Where are you headed? For me, it's impact 100 million lives a week and helping them live a better life. That's five years out, but I'm also like trying to do it every year. I'm like, what would it take if I could, if I had to do it this year and I'm trying to accelerate it. And a lot of it comes down to, it's hard to reach 100 million people. without video. Because audio, as you guys have seen,

it's hard to make a one piece of audio content pop and go viral. It's almost, I don't know if anyone's ever done it. Maybe it's like Joe Rogan or something with Ivan Musk smoking weed or something like that.

Yeah, that's about. But it's more like the video takes off and people watch the clips. So it's really figuring out how do we build our own production company with viral video content that has the ability to reach 10 million people a week for each video

so that we could collect a, 100 million people with all of our content to help give people tools and inspiration to improve their life so that's uh you need an amazing accent like j shetty exactly a british accent that's makes me yeah you got to get that's different and unique and trustworthy you can say anything australian or british people will trust whatever you say exactly well you guys are both really inspiring what you guys have created i know your audiences love your wisdom and you're just down to earth mentality so it's amazing to see a couple of guys someone with a list who who's who's to steal cookies in Madison or St. Paul, Minnesota, wherever it was, and a cop who can transform

his own life and one day at a time, one house at a time, and then transition out of that and give back. So you guys have both done amazing things. It's really inspiring. Well, thanks, Lewis. If you ever want to get in touch with any of the guests we've had, we've had Jocko Willink, Hal Elrod, Tim Ferriss. I've had all those guys, yeah. Okay. Well, if you hear across, I'll look at your list. There you go. We've had those three guys, yeah, for sure.

I appreciate you guys very much. Thanks for having me. Gary Vaynerchuk, have you had Gary yet? Like Gary like three times, yeah. Okay, all right. I've known Gary for 11 years, yeah. Yeah, I saw video of you guys back like way a long time ago recently. I'm wrestling war in 2009, yeah.

Yeah, that's pretty awesome. All right, dude, well, thank you for coming on the show. We appreciate you a lot. Take care. Great to meet you, Louis. Thank you. All right, and that was our show with Lewis House. Awesome show.

I knew that was going to be good. I've been looking forward to that. for really months since we started talking about trying to get Lewis on the show and definitely did not disappoint. What do you think, David? Yeah, he was, like you said, he did not disappoint. I think that if the goal of this was to say, okay, this is how you build wealth through real estate, here's some things that may be stopping you from doing it. We could not have asked for a better guest or better content to just go right at the heart of this will often get in your own way when it comes to getting what you want out of life. Yeah, it's so true. It's, I don't know,

everything that he talked about today, I'm like, to think I'm like, man, that's just so good. I want to listen to that again. So very, very cool. I'm glad we got that. There's a lot more we didn't get to of his stories. If you guys want to check out his story, like, make sure you guys listen to his show. I'll listen to all the interviews he's done and maybe we'll bring him back here again some time. We'll go deeper because he's written some really good books as well, like the mask of masculinity and the school of greatness and just all around, pretty well-rounded guy. And if anybody can connect him with The Rock, let's do that as a community. Yeah, please. If anyone here knows the Rock and can make a connection. Or Oprah Winfrey,

hey, if you know Oprah, I don't think he'd mind that either. I don't think so. All right. With that said, David, you want to get us out of here? I'm going to go kayaking with Mr. Ryan Murdoch today. Well, that sounds awesome. Yeah, I mean, if you were here. Ryan takes some good pictures.

If you were here, you know, we could kayak together. If I was there, I'd have to spend 14 days in quarantine and I would not be allowed to kayak. I would be facetiving with you. We would be out of the water. It would be great. All right. Thanks, Brandon. I appreciate you, man.

This is David Green for Brandon, the cookie master Turner. Siding off. Was that a cookie monster voice? Or did I go yet? That was Kurt with the frog, I think. I don't know. Yeah, you're right. Master of cookies, it is.

Doesn't Cookie Monster say something funny like that? Cookies. That's what he does. That's what I was trying to do. All right. Good job. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small.

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