BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 407: Buying 100+ Houses/Year in 4 Hours/Week Using Teams, Traction, and (Get this…) TikTok with Ryan Pineda

Episode Date: October 11, 2020

Want to think like a high-level investor and business owner who is seizing the moment and enjoying his best year ever? Listen up! Former Oakland A's baseball player (and show 292 guest) Ryan Pineda steps back up to the plate today... and he delivers a detailed breakdown of how he's using TikTok, Youtube, billboards, and TV commercials to generate an avalanche of leads in the Las Vegas, NV market. Ryan's team flips and wholesales 100 houses a year... but because he's set them up according to the EOS/Traction system, he spends just 3-4 hours per week running things! Sound good? Well, a lot of hard work went it. And in this episode, you'll hear the journey firsthand: from exactly how each member of Ryan's team handles a transaction, to why they keep a visual scoreboard in the office, to how he had to shift his mindset after realizing he was the bottleneck holding his business back. In This Episode We Cover: Operating a real estate brokerage, tax company, house flipping business all at once Flipping 100 houses/year in 3-4 hours/week How Ryan attracts deals using TV ads and billboards Why he believes influence is the most valuable currency today Finding the one thing you can't delegate How he leads a team using EOS system from the book Traction How structure can actually free your team up to do their best work And SO much more! Links from the Show: The DISC Profile EOS Don't this miss one this one, and leave us (and Ryan) a comment in the show notes over at biggerpockets.com/show407. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 407. More success we have, how do I stay humble and not let the success get to our heads? So first off, anyone we hire must pass all four of those core values. If they don't have those, we ain't hired them. I don't care if they're the best sales guy in the world. I don't care if they have the most experience. If they lack one of those, they cannot work for us. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small.

If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What is going on, everyone? This is Brandon Turner, host of the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, Mr. David Green. What's up, David Green? Happy weekend. What's up, Brandon Turner?

Thank you for that. It's been a good weekend. We got a little bit of clear air again, finally. and I got a lot of time to do some thinking. And today's show as the result of someone who did a lot of thinking, we had Ryan here on, it was like 272 or 292. 2902. It was 292.

And we both loved him so much. We asked him to come back on and his business has blown up since we last talk. So there's a ton of gems to pull out of this one. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Ryan actually was one of the members who came out to Maui a couple of, a year and a half ago. You guys have probably heard to talk about the Maui mastermind we did out here, which was just like a group of like 18 high level.

investors just sharing and doing life together and setting some big goals. Anyway, Ryan was one of those guys that came out and we had a great time with him. And I got to see him first when he was on the show back on 2992, then, you know, a year and a half ago with that. And then now today, and just to see his growth has been just phenomenal. They're still flipping over 100 houses a year. But now he's gotten into some other really cool high level stuff, including of all things, TikTok. And you're going to learn today how Ryan is raising money via TikTok. No dancing required. You're going to love that. talks a lot about just like the mindset. He's at a kind of shift, uh, from being an entrepreneur, like just do stuff and have fun and like, like to being a business owner and how that actually

provides more freedom and more excitement and joy in life for you and your team. I talked about growing his team, hiring people. We talk about so many good stuff in today. It was really, really, it was on the shows that just, it's like, it's like, fine wine, right? It gets better, like, better the longer you get into it, right? It just gets better and better. Uh, uh, this show I really, really enjoyed our conversation with Ryan. So what, let's get into what? Before we do, let's get to today's quick tip. You want to take it, David? Yes, today's quick tip. You actually briefly mentioned it is related to Ryan's recent success. So he talks a lot about how he's used online platforms to further his business. But what you don't

know is that Ryan got the ideas to do that from in-person meetings in masterminds that he's a part of. So by talking to people in different groups that he was in, they gave him ideas to do the things like getting on TV and starting the TikTok that of all 10X's business. So our advice, to you is to join a group of people. Find a mastermind, find a RIA, find a bigger pockets meetup, whatever it is, but get around people that think different than you. Get out of the virtual world, get into the real world, share, be transparent, be vulnerable with what's going on in your life and take in some of the advice you get. And it just may be what you've been needing to get over the hump that you're facing. Yeah, that's so good, man. I love it. Here's why

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I think we're ready to get into today's show. Anything you want to add before we start this thing? Let's do it. All right. This is Ryan Paneda from a home run offer. Make sure you listen to his actual TV commercial. We're going to play it later on in today's episode. So hang tight for that as well.

Let's get to it. Ryan, welcome back to the Bigger Pockets podcast, man. Good to have you here. Happy to be back. So you have been busy since the last time you're on the show. You were on what episode? I think it was 292 a while ago where we talked all about. couch flipping and working in baseball. You were with the Oakland A's, right? Like doing something like

that. Like we went to that whole story, right? Which is cool. And people should go listen to it. It was amazing in every one of my favorites. But today you're doing something a little bit different. Today you're really taking your business to a new level. And that's why today we want to talk with you, not necessarily like, how do you buy a duplex? How do you flip a house? We have a lot of great shows on that in your last one. We went into depth of that. Today I want to know how, like how you were able to do that. Like what's the, what's the mindset? What are the actions? who are you hiring? How do you even know what to do in there?

And then I want to talk about TikTok as well. So yeah, I'm excited about this. So let's start with TikTok, all right? Because I get this out of the way. Okay. So I've been looking at TikTok for a little while now. It's like this is where teenagers go to dance and do their little, you know, shaking their stuff.

And I'm like the old grumpy guy who's like, that's just a stupid social network. And all of a sudden it starts getting more and more popular. So then I download it and I quickly get like upset. with it. I'm like scrolling all day, like learning stuff because there's educational content. There's dancing people and then there's just funny stuff. It's super entertaining. Then I like, I'm like, I'm like, this is just sucking me into it. So I delete it from my phone. I'm like, then I put it back on my phone and take it off and put it back on again. And then I'm like, I'm going to start a TikTok. I'm just going to doing it. And then I'm like, no, I don't have

time for that. And then I look and you've got like three, what, 350,000 TikTok followers, something like that, which is nuts. So I'm like, let's talk to the guy and find out like, first of all, what the heck are you doing on TikTok? How do you have 300,000 people following you? Should people be doing that in real estate right now? Should David be dancing? These are all the things I want to cover. And then we're going to get into some more real estate topics. Yeah, so either way, David should definitely be dancing, whether he's on TikTok or not. But, you know, I got on TikTok during the pandemic. I actually started the TikTok like five months ago or so, six months maybe. So to get that amount of followers in six months, I was like stunned too. Because I've been on Instagram forever and

trying to grow. That's really hard. During that time, I also started YouTube. And it's been, it's been a wild ride, man. But I think TikTok is so good because I was the same way as you. I'm like, this is kids. This is stupid. And I actually had a buddy who was like, dude, you need to get on it. No other real estate investors are on it. Nobody's on it. Like, if you just do it, you'll grow quick. He was right. Like, it was just, because there's not a lot of competition, it's easy to grow. And like you mentioned, it's super addicting. I don't know about you, but like, I'm not very much, like, I don't watch a lot of social media. I put out a lot of content, but I'm not like consuming a lot. But TikTok, dude, you can get sucked into it and just watch for hours just because there's so

much crazy stuff that goes on. Yeah, it's, it's completely nuts on how much, like, you just start swiping, like, all these social networks. are really good about sucking you in, but I feel like TikTok just like perfected it. They're the best. Yeah, that's where the audience is at. So does it help in your real estate in any way? Is it just like fun? It's a fun like hobby. How do you see that thing progressing? How is it working currently for you and where do you see that headed in terms of helping your business? Okay. So a lot of people won't believe this, but it has helped tremendously. So one typical or not typical, but one way that anybody can benefit from it is I've already raised money from it.

So a lot of you are like, well, how did you raise money? Freaking kids are, you know, they're on money. Well, what happened was a lot of YouTubers are on TikTok. And a lot of these YouTubers are young people with a lot of money. So long story short, this YouTuber with like 15 million YouTube subs, DM me. He's like, hey, I saw your TikToks. Like, I want to get involved in real estate. Can you help me out? And I was like, sure. Like, you know, here's the ways we can do it together. You know, what do you want to do? And sure enough, he became a private lender for me. He's already lent on three deals.

Very good interest rates, 100% financing. He's super young sitting on millions of dollars, doesn't know what to do with it. So that's already one way it's paid off. That's cool. That's awesome. Yeah, and I mean, that applies to just in general social media. I mean, it doesn't have to be like the $15 million person. If you put content out there into the world and let the world,

and let the world know that you are doing real estate or you like real estate. Like people are on social media like, oh, that guy does real estate. Real estate's cool. I want to do real estate. And so, like, they're going to find you. I mean, I've raised, I think, I don't even know what I'm at right now. I think we're launching fund three now pretty soon. Like we've read $16 million.

We've got another 20 in the next fund we're going to raise. And almost all of it has come from either social media or some people from listening to the podcast. But really, even the podcast people came through social media because I don't like broadcast that I hear on the podcast very often. Yeah, so social media is huge. for raising that. David, what do you think on that? I mean, like, you use social media as well. Do you get that for, like, clients for like the agent world? Or is it more of a hobby for you? I've never used it for raising money. That's always been something that people that know you would have a relationship

with you do. I think, and I don't know that a lot of people have reached out and said, I saw you on social media. I want to buy a house, although that happens occasionally. It's more for the people that were kind of tweeners. They were like, you know, I kind of want to reach out, but I don't know if I'm ready. this helps push them over the edge. When they hear you talk about it, when they see how somebody else was able to do it, it gives those people that were kind of on the fence looking over saying like,

I wish I could go play at that party. They feel comfortable to walk through the gate and say, hey, guys, can I come swim? Can I come hang out with you? I feel like social media, when you use it correctly, is a window into your life that helps people see transparently what you're like.

When it's used incorrectly, it creates a false image of yourself that's nothing close to what you are to make other people feel bad about the fact that they can't come hang out at your pool. And that's always the way that I've kind of looked at social media, right? You've got people that are using it to say, don't you wish you were cool like me and you could come hang out? And people that use it to say, hey, look, you're invited. The water's warm. You should come, jump in. That's a really good point. So, Ryan, so you're doing

the social media. You got TikTok going, you got YouTube going. Your videos are phenomenal. What else do you see? It's kind of like, where is that headed? Where do you see yourself headed with social media, just doing more and more of that. I mean, like, yeah, well, I guess what's the future look like for you in that regard? Yeah. So, you know, during the pandemic, I think everyone thought about like their future, you know, it's like, is this something that's going to be here in the future? You know, is this career? Where's house flipping going? Where's, you know, real estate going? How are, you know, traditional real estate, too? I think agents should all be like, man, how's this going to play out with all the new tech coming? And the way I saw it, it became very

clear that the world was headed towards influence more so than, you know, anything else. You know, I looked at like Kylie Jenner, you know, she doesn't have to start a new business from scratch. Like any business she starts at this point will dominate just because of her influence. And you see the same thing with anybody. Like Brandon, you want to go raise a fund? If you weren't Brandon Turner, you know, from bigger pockets, it had been very difficult. But because you have influence, raising the money has been very easy for you, you know? So I, I like, looked at it and said, well, I've got multiple businesses. It's not just, you know, house-lipping. We've got a lot of different stuff. And it's like, if I'm going to start new businesses in the

future, how do I give myself the best advantage to do that? And it's just really through influence. I just think anything at this point, if you have influence, you can do whatever you want, really. Yeah, that's such a good point. It's just building that personal brand that like you are somebody who knows what they're talking about, people like you, people trust you, people want to do business with you. And that pays dividends for the next 100 years of your life when people know, like, and trust you. So just getting out there. So let's dive into the last year. I mean, since last year on the show, what kind of growth have you seen in the last couple of years since you were here last?

Like, what's your business doing right now? What are your focus is? What are you focused on? Still flipping? Yeah. So we're still doing 100 plus flips a year. I would say mainly flip, but now we've mixed in more wholesale than we were before. still got the brokerage, still do real estate education. I've got a tax company now, so we do

a lot of different people's taxes. And then, yeah, I've been really working on the personal brand side of things because it just impacts all of those businesses. If I put out good social media content, like I said, I can raise money to go flip more houses or to go buy rentals. It gets more people for our tax company and all these other things. So for me now, with the businesses is kind of established and, you know, running themselves, I'm not too involved with them. I can work on the big picture funnel. Like, I know you love funnels, Brandon.

But it's like, the funnel is the content and the personal brand. How do I funnel them in to the rest of the ecosystem? And it's like, there's nothing, you can't delegate content. You know, it's like, it's me. Yeah. So that's what I'm spending most of my time on these days. And how do you get people that you can trust? I mean, like, that's the hardest thing for most people when they're thinking about

I want to delegate more. I want to hire more. Like, how have you, like, what's that journey been like for you about bringing in the right people to run those different divisions, you guess you could call them? Yeah, so we were talking about this a little beforehand. I actually hired a business coach earlier this year in January because I was like, look, we're getting pretty big. We've been winging it this whole time, just figuring it out as we go along.

Let's try and get somebody who's actually like some corporate structure because I think a lot of us entrepreneurs. We just, we don't come from a corporate background. We're just winging it. And so he kind of gave us some structure. A great book that I recommend is traction. And that's kind of what he teaches the principles on traction. And so he came in and said, well, Ryan, you've got these different businesses.

You're going to need different department heads for each business. And then in fact, for me, I need somebody who's overlooking all the businesses as well. So basically, I need a C.O. of all the companies. And so my sister is actually failing that position, and she's doing it great. So if you want to talk about trust, well, it doesn't hopefully get any better

than your sister or family. So she's overseeing everything on all the company levels. But I would guess right now we currently have, you know, like 50-something agents at the brokerage and my tax company. It's just me and my partner. He's a CPA, so that's easy.

On the house-slipping side, we probably have about 10 employees now, between project managers, sales guys, you know, my C-O, marketing guy. So they're all doing their thing. And then, you know, on the education side and what I call my personal brand side, we probably have about five people

between video guys, editors, you know, membership director. So, man, there's a lot of employees on all these different companies. You can see them like kind of in the background all running around back and forth. And it hasn't been easy to build it for sure. But the business coach

has definitely helped. Yeah, I want to dive more into this because this idea of the business coach, we just did it as well. We actually have our first, like, call. We're, implementing the EOS system, which is from traction across our entire, you know, business as well. What was that like? I mean, for those people who don't even know what that means. Like, I mean, you mentioned the department heads and, you know, kind of a CIO role. But what all, when we say EOS or traction, I just need to get like the, the author probably on the podcast soon. But what does that mean for you guys? What did that look like tangibly? So I don't even know what U.S.

It's entrepreneur something. But it's operator probably. Yeah. Operating system. Yeah. Entrepreneur operating system. Right. And it's really great, man.

I mean, for us, it's what keeps accountability and structure. Like, so we have a huge organizational chart. So everyone understands what they're responsible for. And so like, just to break down one company. Okay, we'll talk about house flipping since it's relevant for most. Like, you have the COO. So the COO is. is in charge of managing the whole company.

Okay? My CEO's name is Sean Bob, believe it or not. Very respectable name. And so under him, you have acquisitions. You've got marketing. You've got project management. You've got, you know, transaction coordination. And so, like, somebody's got to be responsible for those roles.

And most people's companies, they're everything, you know, especially if you're by yourself. You run all these different departments. And for us, we've got different people in each one because we're a bigger company and we got a lot of volume. So, you know, he's got to put the right people in those roles. Like, okay, who's in charge of acquisitions? Okay, who's in charge of managing the sales force? Who's in charge of making sure these projects get done on time?

And so I think it just creates this accountability that is very apparent. And, you know, traction also teaches about having these level 10 meetings is what they call them. And so every week, they are having meetings to make sure that, hey, you know, did all of these things get done? And if not, why? You know, who's accountable for them? So that's what I think it creates is just extreme accountability. And there's just no, like, discrepancy on like, this is your job. Yeah.

Yeah, that's what, like, I love about EOS or traction in general of the book is like, yeah, it's just taking all these things that are going everywhere. And people listening to this can't see my hands moving like crazy here. But there's all these, like, pieces. And if you're an entrepreneur, you know what I'm talking about here. You're a real estate investor. You know what I'm talking about. And it takes all of them. And it just says, okay, let's line them up in a row.

Let's make sure everyone's accountable for something. Let's make sure that we're regularly reporting on what that is. Let's make sure we're just doing this like organized. And like, you know, when I first brought it to my company, my team here at Opener Capital, we like there was a little bit not pushback. You know, I was open to the idea. But it's like, ah, like, you know, that's what they do at Fortune 500 companies. we don't want this this crazy structure.

Why can't we just have fun? Like, I can only just do this. And what I found is there's such freedom in structure, right? Like freedom through structure is like, and what I mean by that is like the same thing with managing tenants, right? If you have a bunch of tenants and you're just like, yeah, just, you know, it's move them in whenever you want to. You know, like you don't need a lease.

You just, you know, make it. If they feel good, put them in. Like, we all know that would be a terrible idea. Instead, the easiest landlording is the world is the more structured you are. It's like this is when they move in. This is what their lease says. This is what happens if they don't pay rent. It's a structure that leads to freedom, that leads to passivity or passivity.

So you can not work so much. And that is what EOS did for us and continues to do. And as we bring in the consultant to really, like, tighten up our operation. And the cool thing is, like, you can do this stuff, even if you have an operation of one person, right? Like, if you have one person in your team, it's just you right now, you can still start to systemat and organize, right? Anything you can add to that.

If you're listening to this show right now, if there's a person, and listening who's just getting started. Like, how can they start thinking this way, what you've learned over the last few years? How can they start thinking that direction? I mean, it starts with reading the book, right? But I think it starts with, you know, going from hustler to actual business, right? Because I think we all start out as hustlers. We're all just like, hey, I want to buy a house.

I want a rental property. I want to flip. I want a wholesale. And we do the one deal. And that's great. You can do one deal with just pure grit and hustle. And you could do 20 deals a year. with pure grid and hustle. I did it by myself. I did my, back in 2016, I did 20 flips,

no employees, no systems, just did it. But when I first came on the podcast, you know, in 2018, that was the first year we ever did over 100 deals. And I'll tell you what, you can't do 100 deals with just hustling. We started just figuring it out as we went along, but man, we lost a lot of money on the way, just doing stupid things that now we know we shouldn't have done. And it wasn't until this year when I was like, you know what, we need to pay to make sure that we do this right. Because I had heard of traction years ago. I just couldn't implement it on my own. I was like, I don't want to do this. Same thing you said. I want to stay, you know, fun. Like we don't need all this, you know, structure. And, you know, but you need it. You really do.

Yeah. So with all these people that you're now hiring, you have more problems and you have more paychecks that you have to issue. How did you figure out how to balance if having more people was more problems and less money or if it was actually better for the business? That's a good question. I think it depends on your personality because I've met a lot of people who just, they cannot manage. And they're like, I don't want to manage anyone. I want to do it all by myself. And I'm happy doing 10 deals a year by myself and making almost 100% net profit versus the more you hire, the lower your net profit goes. but in turn, it should free you up to have more time.

That's the idea if you're doing it right. And I can tell you for me, I very rarely spend time on my housewipping business. I would say maybe, I don't know, three or four hours a week, just kind of watching it, making sure they're doing what they're doing. And, you know, this is a business doing over 100 deals a year.

And so I'll take that. I'll take lower margins. I try and delegate the headaches and have the department heads, deal with the headaches, but you're always going to deal with it. I mean, there's just no other way around it. So for me, it's just figuring out, hey, how much, you know, stress and problems can I handle? Because if I have more, you know, companies and more things going on, it's going to inevitably lead to more problems, like you said. That's what I've been telling people. The song, Notorious BiG never

made is more people, more problems. Because that's one of the things that I've found is as you grow, you get more people. And if you look at, when people talk to us about what are the challenges you're facing in your business, it's almost always geared towards the people in the company. So if you're doing this this well, I'm sure that you figured out a way to solve that problem with some success. What have you found that works for hiring? How are you getting the right department heads to be running these companies with minimal supervision from you? Love that. So I just did a YouTube video on this. So probably by the time this airs, you can find it on my YouTube. But there are four things that I learned from my business coach

that are essential with hiring. And the very first overarching one is defining your core values. And so our core values are right there on our wall for everyone to see. Okay, and I'll just go over them. So first one is serve others. Okay. If you're not willing to serve others, we don't want you. We don't need any selfish people. Second one is train daily. So as an athlete, I want people that want to get better every day. I don't want people who are content just doing their same nine to five for 30 years. That ain't who I'm looking for. The third one is play fair. And so with playing fair, it means just like integrity.

I want you to have integrity. I don't want to be snaking deals from people and all this. We're going to try and do it as best we can to just have integrity. And then last one's no ego. That one's mainly for me. Just, you know, the more success we have, how do I stay humble and not let the success get to our heads? So first off, anyone we hire must pass all four of those core values. If they don't have those, we ain't.

hired them. I don't care if they're the best sales guy in the world. I don't care if they have the most experience. If they lack one of those, they cannot work for us. So that's the first filter to get through. From there, there are three other things. First one is your personality, second one's your experience, and the third one's your desire. So with personality, we talked about personality test. That's one thing I had no idea about, but once I got into it and started learning, it was like, dude, if you just have the right personalities in the right roles, which traction talks about, the right people in the right seats, it makes things so much easier because you can't have like an introverted person trying to do sales.

I mean, they can have some success, but they're not naturally good at it. And they're just like not having fun doing it versus you have an extroverted person who's social, who's good at it. Like they're going to love their job. They're going to be better at it. You're going to need less training. So personality plays a huge role. And just like real quick, on personality, I mean, they have the disc test.

For us, we use predictive index, which is very expensive. So, you know, for a small business, they may not afford predictive index, but you can definitely do the disc test and get an idea of personality. Experience is super simple. I mean, that's your traditional resume. And unfortunately, that's what most people look at. They're like, oh, you got experience, cool, we'll hire you. And it's like, that does not work.

They need to fit your core values. They got to have the right personality. Just because somebody's done something for years, doesn't mean they're good at it. So you've got that. And then lastly, is just the desire? Is this person coming to work for you just to get a paycheck?

Are they still looking for another job while they're working for you? Because it's just for the time being? Or do they legit love what your company's all about? Do they want to be there for the long haul? Do they love what they're doing? So I want people that fit all of those things. And if I can get people that fit all of those things,

which is not easy. But if I can, I know. I've got a good employee because the most costly thing you can do in your business is a wrong hire. That is so true. Yeah. I mean, like, I would rather, I'd rather delay hiring the right, like somebody for a while than go through the pain of hiring the wrong person because getting rid of a person is so painful and difficult. Not just like the idea of firing. That sucks too. But just like leading up to that, even knowing you're getting there. Because for, I mean, here's what I found in every business have hired people for, whether it's bigger pockets or real estate. it's like sometimes I don't know if they're bad or if it's me for a long time. Like in other words, like, they're just not performing well.

And I'm like, well, did I just not give them clear enough expectations? And I wanted, you know, Jaco, Willinket and take extreme ownership of it. And I'm like, well, no, I think it's really them. And am I just not understanding their role? Is it the economy that changes? Is that why they can't find any deals right now or whatever the thing is, right? Like, it's not usually black and white that they were terrible at first. Now, looking back, I can look at all them and be like, oh, there were so many.

red flags and so many problems. But in the moment, you'd overlook that. And so you lose opportunity of months or even years of working with a bad hire. So my question for you, I'm wondering like, where do you find people even begin that funnel? Like trying to, you know, get a lot of people interested in your job position. Are you hiring friends and family? Are you avoiding friends and family? Like, where do you get your applicants from? Yeah. So I actually talked about that in the YouTube too. So there's really three ways to find employees. You can find them sphere of influence, which you just mentioned. And for me, that's my number one source. If I can do somebody or if I can hire somebody for my spear of influence, they're always going to turn out

better than some random person that I don't know yet. And spear of influence can be one of my employees knowing somebody else. You know, we can go to people deep. And I've hired a lot of people that way. So I would say almost the majority of sphere of influence. And once again, we talked about social media in that top funnel. Like, if you have a big social media presence, hiring people is much easier because whenever I have a job, I'll put it on social media and I'll say, hey, we're looking to hire a sales guy, whatever. And I'll get a ton of people who message me like, Ryan, I'd love to work for you. I'll freaking move from, you know, Mississippi to come work for you in Vegas. Like, it happens all the time. And it's like, they already know me. They know what I'm

about because they follow me. And so I don't have to worry if they want it or not. Like, these people want it, you know, and that makes it hire, that makes hiring way easier, just having, you know, a personal brand. But if you're not going to go spear of influence, let's say you're not on social media, you need to get on social media. But if you're not, you can go the old school way. You can go LinkedIn and indeed. Those are going to be, you know, the biggest job recruiter sites and put an ad and do all that stuff. We have hired people that way as well. The other way that many people don't do or even know about is through a recruiter, you know, you could hire a recruiter to go find this person for you.

And the recruiters are professionals. I mean, they hire people for a living. You don't have to know anything about personality, about desire and all the things I just talked about. They'll go do it all for you. But they're going to take a pretty big commission. I mean, I've seen them charge anywhere from 10 to 20 percent of the employee's first year salary.

So it's like, if this person's expected to make 100, grand, you got to fork out 10 to 20 grand of this person for finding them. Yeah. Yeah, which for the right person, it would obviously be worth it, you know, if they bring you the right person. So like, again, people sometimes look at these numbers, like, well, I would never pay that. It's like saying, you're going to be able to make 50 grand on a flip. Well, I would never pay $10,000 to a wholesaler to make $50,000 on a flip. Really? You wouldn't? Like, like, it's just business, right? Like, that's why I pay my tenants to, like, leave when they're, when they're jerks. Like, I'll offer them money instead of evicting them. Because it's just cheap.

in the long run. It's just business to me, right? So one thing first, I want to bring up, you said about the social media thing. And I found that so true. Now, obviously, guys who have YouTube and podcasts, like, you know, that's good, but you can start again with your own your own Facebook, like put out there, hey, I got this job position opening because your sphere of influence has their own sphere of influence, right? So if you have a hundred friends, you've actually got, whatever, 10,000 friends or friends of friends, because everyone's got 100 friends. And it's usually a lot more than that. And so people are like, oh, yeah, my, you know, my brother-in-law is out of work right now.

He might be perfect for that rule. So putting it out there on social is huge. But what this really illustrates is the funnel, right? It illustrates that at the wider your funnel, you know, I love funnels, right? At the top of the funnel, if you had 10,000 people clamoring to work for you, you could really, really, really focus in

on the one person out of 10,000, who was amazing. If you got three people applying for your job because you threw it up on Craigslist and two of them don't even show up for the interview and you're like, well, I got the one guy. Like, what are the two people? chances that that's going to be like a good person to work with. It's just, it's terrible. And so, yeah, thinking in terms of funnel, this is the same thing that's for real estate.

If you had 10,000 potential houses that you were direct mail marketing every month or you were, whatever, you were, you're calling, you were, whatever you do to find deals, which I want to get to today a little bit as well. But that's a whole lot better than if you had four houses on your list and you're like, just bugging them every month. I can't figure out why can't they get any deals because your funnel sucks. Well, I'll give you an example, Brandon. Like, today I sign a new contract for a deal from a guy I've never met. He just followed me on Instagram. He got a deal in a Big Bear California where I have Airbnbs. He's like, I know you're one of the only people that buy up there. You know, will you take this deal? And it's like, yeah, if I flip this deal, I'll make like 50 grand.

Like, this is a great deal. But if I'm not known, I lose that on 50 grand. And so, you know, it just comes back down to if you're an entrepreneur, the most important thing you can do is have a personal brand because you're going to need it for your business, for raising money, for getting deals, for hiring people. Like there's no limit to how valuable it is. Yeah, that's a good point. You know, Ryan, let me ask you this. Brandon, you said something that I think is really big for me and I bet it's big for other

people. One of the reasons that we fear growing is that what we really feel is having to fire somebody. We don't know how to get out of this relationship that was the wrong one. Very similar why people have a hard time. buying a property in the first place is they don't know how to get out of the deal if they don't like it. So they just don't ever get into it. And I've often had the same experience that you had, Brandon, where I'm stuck, it's not working out. And I can't tell, is this my failure that I didn't coach them right? Or I didn't make it clear enough. Or is it their failure that they didn't

figure it out? But either way, I know it's not working. I just don't know if I feel right about letting them go. So I hang on too long. Do you have anything you can share, Ryan, about what you've done to kind of solve that problem? Or was there a thing that you had to figure out about firing that made it easier to get out of the bad relationship so that you could say, now that I know how to get out of it, I'll just go big and start looking to hire the best people I can. Right. So I think there's two things to know. The first one is from like your perspective as a business owner, you've got a business to run. And so I know we all have relationships with our employees. But at the end of the day, if you let a bad employee stay on, they could bring your

whole business down and take out the rest of your employees too. And so you have to be responsible for everyone in your corporation or business, whatever. Like, hey, I like this guy, but, you know, he's not getting it done. He's got to go because for the good of everyone, not just me. So that's the first thing, is taking responsibility for the whole company. Second thing is when you start implementing these things like traction, there's weekly accountability. And so, for instance, let's talk about a sales guy because Brandon, you were talking about deals. One of, like, their weekly scorecard is what they call it, would have certain metrics they have to hit every week. And so one of those metrics might be, hey, I need you to make 20 offers this week, okay?

We're tracking every single offer you make. I need you to lock up two deals this week, one deal this week, whatever it is, right? And you're going to keep doing that every week. and if they're consistently not hitting their metrics, they got to go. I mean, it's very clear. Like,

this is what you have to do. And if you don't do it, there's like no, you know, uncertainty on why you got fired. Like, every week, you're being told you're not doing what you're supposed to do.

So I heard a good quote. It might have been from my business coach, actually. Basically, he said, like, we don't fire people. People just realize,

like, they just prove that they just can't handle it. Like the numbers don't lie. So it's clear expectations. Yeah, in the sense, like maybe like the standard fired them. They didn't fire, they didn't quit, but they just didn't hit the standard so they realized, okay, this isn't working for me. The boss doesn't have to fire me. They just self-select out.

Yeah. The scoreboard tells you. It's not, it's not even me just judging you like, dude, you know, you're just not getting it. Like, you're not hitting it. There's nothing to talk about. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what's so powerful way you're saying is that we're just taking like,

we're not judging people just off their outcomes, right? We're not just saying, hey, you know, to go to the baseball analogy, right? You're a baseball player, right? Like, hey, man, we just lost like, you know, five games in a row. I mean, that would suck, but they're not necessarily going to go fire the pitcher because he had five bad games in a row. But if they're like, dude, and maybe I could be totally off on this. But they're like, you haven't showed up the practice in four days.

Like, you haven't been throwing anything. You've been drinking every single night, sleeping until. noon. Like, it's the lead measures that you're now judging. You're not judging their lag measures. You're judging mostly their lead. And now the lag measures should produce the result. And if not, then maybe they're doing the wrong lead measures, the things that get them there. But that's how, that's why EOS is so powerful because it holds, and any, any management system you do it, doesn't have to be EOS, but it holds people accountable to those, those things that should move the business forward in their division. And you can see, are you, are you not doing well because you

didn't make enough offers? Well, why didn't make enough offers? Well, I didn't have any property to make an offer on. Okay, well, are you not doing enough marketing? Well, I didn't do any marketing. Okay, well, there's the problem. Like, your job clearly says do the marketing. So let's work through that together. And next week, can you do, you know, what do you want to do for marketing? Yeah. And I actually just thought of the phrase he used. It was, I'm not firing you. Your performance no longer allows you to work at this company. Like, it's just, this is the standard. You're not meeting it. Oh, that's good. Yeah. Yeah, that's really good. Because it's a little less like, I don't like you. It's just like, this is the standard. This were the metrics.

We all clearly saw this coming because you've seen the same thing week after week in these meetings that I've been seen. And you let the metrics speak for themselves. David, what do you think? Like, you hire a lot of people. You've dealt with, you know, good employees, bad employees. What's kind of your overall, like, thought on hiring people? Well, I'll say the first, I went through eight assistants that didn't make it before I got my, my first one did, Krista. my next eight didn't. It was very difficult. Once I found one that worked, the next two to three I kept on. So part of the problem was that I didn't know what I was looking for until I saw someone successful. It's very similar, Ryan, you can relate to this, to a scout who watches baseball players.

You don't know exactly which one you're going to say that's the one we want until you've seen enough of them come from the minor leagues, make it to the big leagues and do well. And you're like, okay, that trait that they have or that thing they do, that's going to translate well. into whatever the next role is. So part of it for me was just the experience that I didn't have of what a winner's going to look like. The second piece that I've noticed was that once I had my second and my third people on, their attitudes were really good. And then it wasn't me versus all the employees. That was what I found in the beginning. It was they come in. I want them to work harder than they want to work. I expect more of them than they expected of themselves. And so I ran in that problem that Brandon, you just mentioned, is it me or is it them? What's the problem? When I had three

other people or four other people, five other people that were all in the same page as me, they felt uncomfortable not being there, and they either self-selected out or they raised their standard just out of the cultural pressure, if that makes sense. So I think one of the things I learned, whether I did it the right way or not, was that it was very slow to get momentum going, but once you've got momentum going, it probably becomes much easier to hire because these people come in and they see what everybody else is doing and then they figure out right away, I don't want anything to do with this.

I got to work 40 hours a week. This is crazy, right? Versus the people that see that, it's jumping, right? Everybody is getting things done really quickly. We're thinking quickly. We're coming up with solutions quickly and they are drawn to that environment. Would you say, Ryan, it's been similar experience for you?

Yeah, and to take your baseball analogy further, So we have a big TV right on our wall. It's like an 80-inch TV, and it's a scoreboard. It legit says how much profit our company has made. Who actually made it? You know, who got the deals, how we're doing this quarter, how we're doing this month, how we're doing this year. It cycles through all of our statistics. And so every day, these guys get to go walk by it and see how they stack up.

And in baseball, there's no hiding. You know, when you walk up to the plate, every, see your statistics right there. They're like, this dude's a boss or this dude sucks. And if you suck, you're going to get released at some point because there's somebody else that will do your job for you. Somebody else always wants your job in sports. That's how it goes. Super competitive. So my sales team, which should be your most competitive people, your sales force, they can see how they stack up to each other all the time. And so I want to create that competitive environment of like, hey, we're all seeing the same leads.

We're all seeing, you know, you're not getting any special treatment. Like, why is he doing twice as much as you? So we make it super competitive here. Let's talk about this for a little bit. Like, I want to know how do you, like, how does your business structure? Let's go with just the real estate investing side, like the flipping side. So a lead comes in, kind of walk us through like the way, look, the lead comes in, how are you doing your marketing?

What are you doing for leads? And then where does it go? how does, if you have multiple people work in sales, who gets which one? Is it the lead that they brought in? Or do you get leads in general and you filter them out to whoever is doing best? Like what, how does that look like? What's that funnel look like for you? Yeah. So the system we have is something we started this year in February. So right now, as far as marketing goes, I'm actually doing something way different than everyone else. I'm going the marketing route of like the lawyers. So I'm doing TV. I'm doing billboards,

PPC. I bought my dad a suburban and we put my picture all over it. We're doing the brand marketing of like we're trying to build a long-term brand here that people see. So that's been our main marketing. Now, we also still do the other forms like cold calling and texting, but TV and stuff is way more expensive and all that. Now, granted, I hired somebody who's got experience in TV. So they already. produced the commercial. They knew exactly what worked, and it's worked great for us. And I just like it because it has such a high barrier to entry that I'm not going to be competing against all these people who can just go cold call. This guy gets cold called by 10 different people. There's not 10 different

people doing TV. So long story short, that's kind of what we're doing on the marketing side. Now, when a lead comes in, we have what's called ISAs inside sales agents. So we have two of them. and they're pretty much just always on the phones, getting our web form leads, they're just handling all the intake of leads. And their whole goal is to either close the deal on the phone or set an appointment. That's it.

They're not going on appointments. They're not doing anything. They have the ability to fill it out. And if they're setting an appointment, then we have one guy who goes on appointments strictly for cash offers. And then we have another guy who's like, I call him the 50-50 guy. He's a licensed agent.

we're not sure if they're going to take cash or if they're going to want to go a listing. And so we send him on ones we're unsure of. And then we have a third guy who's just purely a listing agent. We know they're not taking, you know, a discounted offer. So we just send him in. And so that's kind of just how the leads flow in. Okay. And then what happens from this?

Somebody goes out, the same person goes out and looks at the property, makes the offer, does it? And then they carry it to closing or does somebody else take it at some point through due diligence? Yeah. So let's just say we go on an appointment. he locks it up right then and there. That's what we're trying to do anytime we go on an appointment. From there, it goes in escrow. And my marketing guy who's handling all those TV ads and leads and everything,

he also handles the transactions. So he's just seeing the transaction the whole way through. My sales guys are pretty much done at that point. I mean, they're the ones who have built rapport with the seller. And so if we need to get someone in the house because maybe we're wholesaling it or whatever it is, They may call the seller because they've got that rapport. But ideally, my marketing guy should be taking the transaction from there. Okay, that's cool.

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I don't want to gloss over the fact that you, you're doing freaking team. commercials, right? Like, that's, that's really cool. And I love that you said about it's a high barrier to entry. You see, we've talked about this on previous shows as well. Most people, when they think something's hard, they then shy away from that thing. But instead, like, most successful entrepreneurs, they say, what's hard? Let's go do that thing. Because that's the attitude of when you say, what's hard, let's go do that. Like, one of the reasons I chose mobile home parks, so like mobile home parks are freaking difficult to buy. And there's not a lot of

them and the competition is fierce. Let's go do that because that, like, nobody else wants to handle that. Nobody else can handle that stress and that pressure. And so the same thing is true for like TV commercials. Like, we've been actually one of my guys that Bigger Pockets did, had a call with a TV company. And we're talking about what if we did TV commercials for bigger pockets for the podcast? Like, I mean, nobody's doing that. Have you ever seen a TV commercial for a podcast? I haven't. Like, that sounds crazy hard and expensive. Let's talk about it. Like, let's, let's have those conversations and figure out could we, could we do that? Would that, Would that work out? Would enough people watch the commercial that then listen to the podcast and maybe buy a book down the road or become a pro member? I don't know. But it's a cool thought. I'm going to think about heavily doing radio. Have you done radio at all? We've been thinking about radio. So we haven't done any radio. I do want to do it at some point. I mean, so we started TV, I think, in February. That was our first month. And I just, for me, if I'm going to do it, I'm just going all in. So I was like, hey, what are we going to do for a budget? And I just said, you know,

know what, we'll do 20,000 this month. So we did 20,000 our first month on TV. And they're like, hey, with any marketing, right, you can't just base the results on your first month. You've got to get at least 90 days to see how this thing's going. But what I learned was with TV, the time from lead to deal was way shorter than other lead sources. Because if you're calling on TV, you're pretty motivated to do something right now versus if you cold call somebody, who knows when they're going to be ready, right? So there's a huge difference in lag from lead to deal. So TV is super short, shortest I've ever seen. What kind of turn to you to see by the way on TV so far? I mean, have you guys been tracking like? Yeah, so we're always tracking our KPIs. It's hard for us because we

flip, you know, so a lot of stuff we've already bought yet. We haven't, you know, got the return yet. But I would say on closed return, we're at like 3x, but we also have another like 3x in the the pipeline, you know, because we've already bought them. They're going to sell. So in my mind, it's really like a 5x return if, you know, they don't get what we anticipate, whatever, which for me is great because. Yeah, you spend a dollar, make $5, I'll do that all day long. Yeah. And also on top of that, it's not like it requires manpower. Whereas like with cold callers, it's like, okay, I got to go hire all these coal callers. I got to go do whatever. With TV, it's like, do we want to spend more? Hey, can we spend more? All right, cool. And we're done.

That's really cool. Yeah, that's really neat. Have you done multiple? Actually, is it possible to play one of your TV commercials, like commercials right here on the podcast? Like, is that like, you don't have to necessarily pull up. Now we can add it in and post later if you want. I'll play it for you.

Okay, let's do it. Let me, you want to actually, let me. I don't know. Obviously people are only hearing it for the most part. Yeah, yeah. I'll play it on my phone right now. I'll put it up on the mic. As is, cash off on your house.

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Oh, I can call in the middle of the night. It's okay if I watch this at late night TV. There's all these little things that are, you know, oh, any condition, cash offer, you know, like, I don't know. I love it. I love, I get, I geek out of marketing stuff quite a bit. Oh, if you saw the video, you'd see too. It's just like, there's like the White House on it and like, you know,

we'll buy any house and it shows the White House. And like, we've had people call in that are just like so pissed about it. They're like, why would you put the White House? Like, you're getting. you know, why would you do that? Why would you say that? I'm like, dude, people are crazy. But yeah, you know, we didn't come over that commercial. Actually, a guy named Doug Hopkins who is out in Phoenix, he's done, I mean, he's an OG. He's done so many freaking deals. I don't even know. Has he ever been on the show, Doug Hopkins? No. Okay. You guys should get him. You did like 500 deals last year. And yeah, we need Doug. Yeah, you need Doug. So he's an OG. And he's been on TV for like seven years, just literally playing that same commercial. And so, it's a guy. And so.

So his company, pretty much, they're in a mastermind of them in called Collective Genius. And he's like, hey, we're going to open it up to anyone in here. You know, it's market exclusive. Who wants to do it? I was like, me. Like, I'll do it. Like, sign me up. And so, you know, we just literally copy as commercial and do it in Vegas.

Yeah, that's fantastic. Really good stuff. All right. So you're doing that. Then what happens, I guess, what's your business look like in terms of after closing? You got project manager, I'm assuming at some level taking care of the properties, you know, managing the rehabs. What's that look like, I guess?

Yeah, so, you know, it goes through escrow. My COO actually manages our lenders. So he'll pick who's going to fund this deal. We haven't used our own money on deals in years. We've raised a ton of private money. And, you know, he finds a lender. We close. During that time, we're also getting bids.

Our project manager is the one walking it. before we buy it. And he already has an idea of our budget, who's going to be doing it. And he'll hire the GC and get it done. From there, goes on the market. So my brokerage will always list it. You know, my broker partner over there, he'll list every single one of our listings. And he handles it all from there. He's the one choosing what offer we want. He's the one, you know, negotiating repair request, making sure it gets pushed through. I don't do any of that. And then we close. We have one more project manager as well who checks on all the finished properties. So one guy's in charge of getting them fixed up, the other guy's in charge of pretty much

maintaining them. When it came to scaling from I'm a hustler, I flip couches, now I flip houses into I'm building a business and I will be the person that drives leads into this funnel. What had to change within your own mindset that made you say, okay, I want to do this, I can do this? Hmm. Well, for me, it was the toughest part was I never actually had a job in my life, like a real job. You know, baseball is not like a real job where you learn business or, you know, you have a true boss. Couch flipping, same thing. It's just stuff I just figured out. And so I had a hard time managing people, you know, starting out because I never had a boss, like, or structure. I'm like, dude, just do it. What are we talking about? Just do it. And eventually I learned people, don't just do it. People don't know expectations unless you tell them. And so over the years of just mismanaging people on my part, I realized, hey, I actually need to figure out how you're supposed

to manage people, but also am I even the right person for that role? And that was the hard thing for me was because I was managing the house flipping company. And granted, I mean, we're doing over 100 flips a year. But so many things slipping through the cracks because I just cannot keep people accountable because I hold myself accountable and I feel like everyone else should too when in reality it's not. You need somebody who's going to stay on people every single day. And I just wasn't fit for that role. And my business coach told me, he was like, Ryan, you don't realize this, but like, you're holding your business back. And I'm like, really? Because I've, I built a pretty cool business. And he's like, well, if you actually step back and just did what you're good at, your business would be even better.

He's like, you're really good at, you know, building relationships, you know, marketing, sales, you know, building that top funnel, the big vision. But you are not good at the details and the day to day. So you need somebody who can handle that. And that was when things changed. So good. I think when you said that I realized, yep, that's been my problem the whole time. I expect that you're going to hold yourself accountable, that you're going to have a high standard, that you don't want to let people down. I expect you're going to treat our clients like they're your clients.

And then when people don't, I'm honestly just candidly frustrated. I don't know why you would do that. Why would you think it was okay to ignore that person for a day without sending an email that says, hey, let me get back to you tomorrow and just ghost them, making them spend all night wondering what happened with the offer or whatever the case is? And I think Brandon is probably similar for you. I would bet all three of us are not the best person to be managing our own teams. And that was some wonderful insight that you recognized.

I just knew I shouldn't be doing it, right? Like, yeah, sure, I'm a pitcher and I can hit, but do I really want to be practicing all this time trying to get better at hitting when I could just become better at pitching and let somebody else do the hitting? Other than your coach who said that, was there a point in your business that you kind of recognize that on your own and maybe you didn't act on it until the coach pointed it out? To be honest, I kind of felt like I was out of the business already until he pointed it out.

You know, he pointed out where I was the bottleneck in every single part. He's like, okay, who picks the lender for each deal? I'm like me. He's like, okay, well, you know, you're the bottleneck. Who decides what deals you're going to buy? I was like, me. It's like, okay. Who holds all the meetings every week?

I'm like me. He's like, does it sound like you're out of your business? And I'm like, well, in my mind, I'm not the one, you know, checking projects and selling the deals. Like, I'm like, I'm pretty far out of it. but I realized I wasn't. And no, I never, I just did not realize how involved I really was and how bad of a job I was doing holding people accountable. Like I look back, we're talking about employees and I look back at people who are no longer with us. And I think like you, Brandon, I'm like, dude, was it me? Probably, you know.

Number one, it was me because I hired the wrong person. But number two, I set the wrong expectations. Number three, I didn't hold them accountable. like I did all these things wrong that we don't do as often now. You know, we're not perfect, but we're much more systematized.

Dude, can I pick your brain on something? This is going to be like one of those things that doesn't necessarily apply to everybody in the world listening to this, but I think it will apply to everybody eventually. Like, for those of us with teams of people around us, especially we're trying to be leaders of our teams. And we've got employees,

we've got them lined up. I guess here's where I struggle a little bit. is I feel like I have to be working when they're not when they're working necessarily, but I have to prove that I'm working just as hard as they are. You know what I mean? Like, and so like I feel like I have to run the meeting. I couldn't give somebody else to run that meeting. I have to be picking the lender because I like, like, I, otherwise I'm not bringing

enough value. Like I'm not just like, and maybe I'm just like not value my own whatever. But like, how did you, how do you mentally get over that? Like this idea of you need to be there for everything. you need to be the guy. Otherwise, if your team sees you working out at the gym at three o'clock in the afternoon, they're like, well, Ryan's not working hard. That's a good question, man. I think for my team, they know I'm working extremely hard because, you know, our office, we're all working together, right? So it's easy to see what everyone's doing. Just the type of work I do now is different. And they

understand that. Like now, my job is literally just like creating content. That's literally like all I do all day now. And they know that I'm not doing it because it's super like easy. Creating content's not easy. We all know that. And they're not, they know I'm doing it for the big picture. And they know that by doing this, it's actually going to make them more successful because it's going to bring in more private money like we talked about,

more deals, more contractors, more relationships. It's going to just bring all these things that in turn help them. So they know I am, even though it's my personal brand working to help them. And they understand that, No one else can do the type of work I'm doing except me.

So I have to do it. But even then, they know that over the years, the ones who've been with me for a while, they know how hard I worked to build the company up to where it is today, where I can kind of step back and give people more responsibility. It's not like I just was like, hey, I'm going to hire you, you, you, you. Cool, we got this huge company. And, you know, I didn't do anything. I was just the orchestrators.

It's like, no, I was freaking in the trenches, negotiating deals, doing everything so that we could get to where we are. David, do you have any thoughts on that? I know you've been there as well. You lead a big team. Yeah, and I'm in a very similar situation to where Ryan's at. I think that I'm probably not 100% dedicated just to that team because I'm doing a lot of work with bigger pockets and helping to grow their brand. Because Josh got this thing started, you know, eight, 10 years ago. And he built up a ton of momentum that you and I are trying to keep pushing forward.

So it's not just my team that I'm working with. But I know, man, what it feels like when you're doing this is like what you learn about in school with cell mitosis. You start off with like a cell and it splits into two, right? So you have sales and then operations. It comes out of that first split. And then let's say Ryan's in sales and he has an operations team. And then the operation team splits into two. You've got like acquisitions and then you've got like the people that close the deal when you got to put together.

And then the closing side splits into two. You've got the rehab people and you've got maybe the title people or the financing people or whatever. Then you go back to your sales side and Ryan's like, okay, I can't keep up with this all. So then that splits into two. I need an acquisitions guy and then there's me. And then it splits again. I need a closer and I need a marketer. And what I've noticed is that's the rhythm of how growth feels is you do everything until you get this feeling inside of like what's holding you back or you could probably speed that up with a coach or a consultant that would just tell you here's what you're being.

held back by. And you say, how could I hire someone to do that part? And the fear that all of us have is they won't do it as good as me. And it's like I've said a million times, when we get scared, we zoom in. You look at the thing that can hurt you every time you get scared. And you have to remind yourself that you're not thinking about, even if they do it 80% as good as me, 50% as good as me, if I now have all that time to put into this other dollar productive activity that's worth more, and I can do four times as good there. It's okay that they did the job 50% as good. It was still such a big net gain.

So part of it is this emotional fear. You got to get over. You got to quit thinking about what you lost by paying somebody to do this thing. And then I would say the other part of it is just kind of understanding the language of business. How do you know, how do you make sure you're profitable? How do you know that this was the right move? How do you know that you didn't hire a bunch of people? And now all of your profits gone, which is why I kind of started the conversation

off there with Ryan. But is that similar to what you felt, Ryan, as you've grown? Yeah, for sure. And, you know, an example would be like the inside sales agents and the outside sales agents. Before, you were just a sales guy. I was like, hey, you take the lead, you go on the appointment, whatever. And it was like, hey, we're going to split these guys up. This guy's better on the phone and following up with people and setting things up. This guy's way better in person. He's just got that that look, that charisma, whatever. Like, I want him on appointments. And so like that's a clear example, I think another thing that we haven't really touched on that I have learned is super important. You know, you talked about, hey, if I'm doing this task, it's four times, you know,

more valuable. But also, you got to look at the long term and the short term of things. And so, for example, if I were to just stay in the house living business and do what I do best, which is sales, like if I went on appointments, no doubt, I would do better than my sales guys. Just because I have more experience, I understand it. I'm the guy they see on TV. You. I'm the guy they see on TV. You they're more likely to do a deal with me. Like, it would be, I would make a lot more money. But instead, I choose to go do all these videos. And it's like, TikTok, they ain't paying me all this money to do all these videos.

YouTube, yeah, it makes some money now, but nothing compared to the opportunity cost I lose by not being heavily involved with the flipping business. But I understand the long term of it far outweighs it. And so in a few years from now, all this work. I'm putting in today that's not necessarily making, you know, bottom line money right now, it's going to be big years down the road. But I've got to be able to sustain myself short term because I am making a sacrifice. That's such a good point. You know, Brandon, you mentioned something when I asked you about your mobile home park and I said, tell me like how it's going. And you said,

you gave me the result about like eight years down the road or something. You said, yeah, I grew my net worth by this much because eight years later, this is about where it's going to be, which was a completely different way of thinking. I've tend to, like most people, think, okay, I bought this property. It had $30,000 of equity in it. I increased my net worth by $30,000, and plus I got 200 month of cash flow. But what if I fast forwarded it at 10 years, just on a very conservative growth track, and I saw what it was paid down by, what it went up by, and how much my cash flow would have increased. Those numbers are radically better. It's like life-changing stuff. And I think if you start looking at it, like, what moves did I just make and how will they

affect me 10 years later? You'll be overwhelmed by the positive reaction, the positive response that that would bring. And that's why you're going so hard at this brand. That's why you're facing these challenges. You're hiring these people. You're raising the money and you're just like, no, we're going to do this no matter what, because you're looking at it 10 years down the road. And that's a great point that you mentioned, Ryan, that we zoom in. We look at what is it at right now? year one, this is my return and not looking at it year 10, year 20, year 30, because a lot of the excuses that we make for why we don't get started would completely crush if you put the benefit of a 30 years of growth from that one good decision on top of that excuse.

Boom. That's really good, man. Well, what that said, we've got to start moving towards the end of today's show. Ryan, I'm wondering, where do you see yourself head in the future? I mean, more and more content. Are we going to see the Ryan show on TV? Or you have a the Ryan TV show eventually? Like, where are you headed? It's interesting, man. As we look at, you know, forecasting, which we're talking about, and that was what I was doing during the pandemic, I'm like, hey, where's the world headed?

I felt like the world is headed towards, you know, content and digital. Like, everything is going to be on your phone. And you just see the way the world is now. It's like people watch YouTube, people watch TikTok, Instagram. Like, they watch it more than TV, you know? And so it's interesting that anyone can become, I quote unquote, famous on their own. You know, you don't need TV like it was 10 years ago. You know, 10 years ago, there was only one path to being known, get on TV or whatever.

And so now it's like you don't necessarily need TV. You know, you can put out your own content, produce it, create it. And I think that's exciting and awesome that I'm in control of my fate, you know. however hard I want to do this and get better at it is a really cool adventure. Because for me anyways, you know, flipping houses is great. I've been doing it for years. But I have no desire to be like, hey, I want to flip 200 houses, 300 houses. Like it doesn't do anything for me.

It would just simply be to make more money. Whereas this is a whole new bald game and like competition for me. It's like, how big can I do it and grow it? You know, how many people can I impact? What other doors can this lead to? And so I'm just super focused on the content. If TV happens, it's not like I turn it down. You know, so you never know.

But either way, you don't need it today. That's the awesome thing. That makes sense, man. Well, very cool. Well, I guess do you have any final advice in terms of like, we try to keep these weekend shows a little more mindset related? So like, how can people right now who are maybe struggling, not sure what to do with the real estate,

they're like, I want to get started with this. I'm just, I'm struggling. Like, what do you suggest for those people right now to change their mindset, to change the way they think? Like, what's helped you the most in your life that you can just kind of leave with some final words of wisdom today? You know, I think it comes down to routine. To be successful in anything, sports, real estate, you need a routine. And so if you can start by figuring out, hey, what's the routine I need to do? Then actually executing it every day, you'll have success.

I mean, there's no doubt about it. When you wake up with no plan and, you know, I guess no purpose on what you want to do, you're not going to do anything. Like nobody just naturally accomplishes freaking, you know, all this success. It's always, hey, I've got this plan. All right, great. I've got this vision. Okay, what's the plan to get there.

Okay, here's what I need to do. I need to, you know, make a hundred cold calls every morning from this time. I need to meet one new realtor every day. I need to meet one new wholesaler every week. and you hold yourself to these routines and goals essentially. And trust me, I mean, you will have success. You'll either stop doing it and have not, you know, no success or you will have success. You'll adjust it also, you know, have more success.

That's so good. That's so good. Everyone needs to rewind that last like minute and a half to just listen to that one more time because that like that's where it's at. So good. All right, dude. Well, how can our users provide value to you? What are you looking for right now? what can they could do to bring you some beneficial value?

Just go follow me on all the social medias. You know, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram. You can just find me at Ryan Paneda Show. It's the same handle on all of them. So just go follow me and shoot me a DM. Go leave a comment. Whatever. All right, man.

Very, very cool. Well, with that said, I think we're ready to get out of here. David Green, you want to close up shop? Yeah, Ryan, thank you very much the transparent look into your business. You don't see that very often, just to be frank with you. It's not hard to find a guru who comes out and tells you how great they are and highlights the, maybe the results of their success, their car, their yacht, whatever. But they never really want to open up and tell you what's really going on in the business or what money they are or

they're not making or how they're making it. And I just commend you for being willing to go on a podcast like this and share some of these details and some of these struggles because that's what really benefits the people that are listening. They don't need another person waving a Ferrari in their face and telling them that you two can do this. They need that the training plan that you gave everybody here. So this is why we brought you back because you're just an awesome guy. I appreciate that. I appreciate you guys having me back. Thanks, man. This is David Green for Brandon. Keep thinking 30 years down the road, Turner. Signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about

Real estate investing without all the hype. You're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by E&K, copywriting is by Calicoe Content, and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included involves risk. So use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. Bigger Pockets LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential, or other damages arising from a reliance on information present.

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