BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 413: Matthew McConaughey on Vision, Preparation, and Balancing Ambition with Family & Freedom

Episode Date: November 1, 2020

You, BiggerPockets listener, may have more in common with Matthew McConaughey than first realized... Changing careers. Wondering how family life fits in with a hard-driving work ethic. Embracing spontaneity, but learning that success comes from making the choice today to "be kind to your future self." The Oscar-winning actor covers those topics and more in our chat today. A lifelong journaler, McConaughey is in a reflective mood after writing his first book, Greenlights... which is filled with unforgettable stories about growing up the son of Texas an oil pipe "peddler," stumbling into acting after a night drinking with the producer of Dazed and Confused, getting arrested for playing the bongo drums in the nude, and his mid-career shift toward intense, challenging projectslike Dallas Buyers Club. If you're thinking "nah, this episode won't teach me how to house hack"... fair enough. But give it a chance and see if you aren't entertained. It's a soulful, positive, not-at-all-Hollywood conversation about choices, happiness, and success. Here's to catching more greenlights! In This Episode We Cover: Matthew's upbringing and lessons learned from his parents His decision to reject law school to pursue film His dad's 3 words of advice on choosing a career Forming your personal identity through a process of elimination How he prepares for intense roles The power of solo travel His faith His beliefs about money and philanthropy The give-and-take between career and family life Links from the Show BiggerPockets Podcast Greenlights book's website Click here to get the full show notes: https://www.biggerpockets.com/show413 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 413. You can waste away chasing greenlights that are plugged into a little two-volt battery that aren't going to shine for long. You know, there's stops. They're not stays. So how can we define the ones that are like, no, that's, that's an eternal green light. That's a green light that I'd be honored to do now and I believe will pay me back and I'll be proud of tomorrow.

You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on, everyone? It's Brandon Turner, host of the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, Mr. David Green, for one of my favorite interviews I have ever done in my entire life. I was looking for this forever and I'm excited to release it to you guys today.

Today we're talking with Matthew McConaughey. David, thanks for joining me today on this momentous day for me. I'm a fan boy here. This is great. Fan boy. Yeah, I would say that that accurately describes you, but it was very impressive watching your preparation for this. And it just reminded me why I respect you because you went hard and this interview came out

very, very good. And I'd say you deserve probably 54% of the credit for that. Wow. Thanks, man. Appreciate you. So today we're interviewing Matthew McConaughey. Of course, you all know him. He's, you know, Oscar winner for Best Actor for Dallas Buyers Club.

He's been in like, you know, half the chick flicks romantic comedies ever made a time to kill. How to Lose a guy in 10 days. My wife was very excited about that one. Dallas Byers Club, like I said, true detective, a wolf of Wall Street and a million other movies. He's phenomenal. And here's the thing. I've been following him on Instagram for a long time. And then I find out he's coming out with a book.

It's called Green Lights. And I've been watching him do his little like, you know, talking about it for the last few months. And so we've been, I don't know, desperately maybe is the word, but trying to get him to come on the Bigger Pockets podcast. Probably not the right word there. But I've been working at it. And then Kevin, our producer, actually comes in for the win and was able to lock it down,

which is pretty exciting. The thing you might be wondering is like, why is a guy like Matthew McConaughey who does acting going to talk to a bunch of people who are interested in real estate investing and money and entrepreneurship? But the truth is, like, the advice he gives on. on this episode and in the book is some of those like the most valuable information that's going to make you either successful or not successful in life. In the way he phrases it within stories is just unbelievable. It's a phenomenal book. So definitely check it out. David, you killed it on

this interview as well. You had a lot of good insight. So I'm excited for people to hear it. Thank you. To be fair, Matthew made it really easy. Matthew, if you're listening to this. Thank you very much. You're obviously a very good storyteller. And I thought that he came across sharing stories that were reliable to anybody. It was definitely not like we're talking to somebody in Hollywood and this would never apply. I caught myself throughout the entire interview thinking, yep, this is what people go through and they can't pick a niche. They don't know what to do. Yep, this is what people go through when they're taking the wrong course. They're on the wrong path and it doesn't feel right and they don't know how to get on the right one. So there's some really good

stuff here, specifically when it comes to finding the mindset that will lead to you being successful. that should be applicable for almost all of our audience. 100%. So today's quick tip is simple. Just go pick up a copy of Green Lights from Matthew McConaughey. It is amazing. They did not pay me to say that. I literally, like, I read this book and I was like, this was phenomenal.

Like I read almost the whole thing in one sitting until Wilder woke up and I had to get up. But it is like, it was hard to put down. So many good stories in there. And we probably covered 1% of those in today's talk. So go pick it up. I think you'll love it. And now, we all jokes at rents. are passive, but if you're spending nights matching receipts or guessing what a property earned last

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It's about building durable, tax-aware wealth over time. Learn more at biggerpockets.com slash bam. I think we're ready to jump into this thing. Anything you want to add before we start, David? No, let's bring in Matthew. All right, here we go. You guys, this is our interview with Academy Award winner, Matthew McConaughey. All right, Matthew, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast, man.

It is amazing to have you here. Thanks, Brandon. Good to be here. Yeah, so we're going to dive into your book today, Green Lights and your story. I'm not kidding. I literally read every word of this almost in one sitting when I got this. And there's a quote on the back from a guy we actually had on our show a couple times, kind of a friend of mine, Ryan Holiday says,

it shouldn't surprise you that this book is good, but it will surprise you just how good it is. And it's exactly the words I thought when I read it. It's phenomenal. So I want to, what I really want to do, I want to go through every single page of it, but we don't have time for that. So we're going to highlight some good stuff today. So why don't we start at the beginning? It's a very good place to start. Yeah. Your parents, let's start there.

Lessons learned from parents. You've got a lot of great stories in here about your parents and about the lessons they taught you. But if you could pull out one or two lessons from your, you know, maybe we can take mom and dad. Yeah. That kind of shaped you who to are, who you are today. Sure, sure. All right. Mom was. she brazed me more than dad did.

My dad was definitely around, but he wasn't as round as much as he was for like my two older brothers because business got good and he was on the road peddling pipe. But mom, mom, I mean, I remember this with mom. All right. So you come into breakfast, if you're kind of grumpy,

she's like, get your butt back in bed. Don't you come in here until you see the rose in the vase instead of the dust of the table? Whoa, it had to go back. Or there's time, you know, you griping about, I got these old ragged pair of shoes. I mean, they're not that bad, but everyone else has got the new capas or whatever. How can I get a new pair of shoes?

You're like, you keep griping about having no shoes. I'm going to introduce you the kid with no feet. He'd be like, whoa, geez. You know, she, the queen of relativity, kind of giving you a baseline about what you wanted and what you actually maybe needed. She also, we weren't allowed to watch much TV. And I remember her saying, she'd harp this. You're not going to watch somebody do something for you that you could be doing for yourself.

Get outside. Go. So, and I mean, what else? She'd go to a place like you'd be nervous to go to the school dance or go to public speaking. She'd be like, you don't walk in there like you want to buy the place. You walk in there like you own it. And she had these little one-liners that as kids we'd hear.

And they were not up for discussion. They were proverbs. Also gratitude is what she taught me and my brothers a lot of to be thankful for what you have. And the more you're thankful what you have, the more things you'll create in life to be thing before. So that's about five on mom. Let me give you a good dad one. Look, dad, he was big on certain values. You don't lie. But a particular one was you don't say the word C-A-N-T. And I remember there's a time where I was, you know, getting up Saturday morning, do my early morning,

Saturday morning chores was from mother yard, we need. And I'm trying to get the lawmore started. It wouldn't start. Try again. It wouldn't start. I go inside of my dad. I go, dad, I can't get the lawnmower started. And I saw him kind of look up at me. He slowly got off of bed, walked with me side by side, out of the bedroom, through the kitchen, out the garage, back around the back shed where the lawnmower that I couldn't get started was. He sat there. He cranked it a couple times. It did not start. He didn't crouched down and started messing around, got a screwdriver. All of a sudden, found the gas hose where the gas was, gas hose was, gas was, um, he sat there. off and it wasn't giving direct gas the engine. He hooked that up, cranked the lawnmower. And this has gone on for about 10 to 50 minutes without him saying a word. Now the lawnmower is running. And he comes over to me and looks at me square in the eye and he goes, you see, son, you were just having trouble.

I was like, ah, yes, you're right. And that's been one, that's been one, a real lesson. That was a good one. That was charged in me by my dad because all those times we think we're unable to do something. even if we ourselves are unable to, we can go sometimes seek help and get it done, which means actually we were just having trouble. Yeah, I know one of those, one of those, you know, you call them bumper sticker moments or bumper sticker lines like that, you know, that kind of like change your life.

These like, I don't know, call them pithy, but they're like impactful statements, right? I read once like, I think it was in the book Rich Dad Poor Dad, but it was basically like, you know, rich people ask how do I afford it? They don't say I can't afford it. Right. It's just like that subtle shift of asking how. I think how it's powerful word in the language. Yeah.

How do we do this? I was just listening to my pastor the other day, and his whole month is on how we think. Not what do we think. How do we think? And a lot of that, I think, is what comes out of this book. And that's why I call it an approach book. I've had, you know, similar situations and hardships to a lot of people,

but maybe I looked at them in a different way. maybe I deemed what was inevitable in their situation at the right time and then got relative to it. I've had plenty of times where I didn't do that the right way and I didn't get residuals for the choice I made or how I approached the situation. But I do think there's a science to the satisfaction of how we look at something, how we look at a situation. We don't, not to deny its hardship. That's what I mean by red and yellow lights are the things we don't like in line. green lights are the things we do. But in the red and yellows, I found that they give us what we need more often than we recognize sometimes. So how soon do we look at a situation that we may not

like that may not be ideal for us and go, there's something I'm supposed to get out of this. There's a lesson I'm supposed to get out of this to catch more green lights in the future. Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, I want to harp on this or talk about this green lights analogy here for a little bit or like the way that you use that throughout the book. this idea of there are green lights in life, there are red lights, and there are yellow lights. Can you explain for those who haven't read the book yet? And again, I want everyone to read it. But how does that work? Like, why is that the theme throughout this book? And maybe throughout your life. Yeah. So in going back over 36 years, my journals and diaries, which I did to get to this book,

I noticed times where there were consistent ways, consistent choices I made today that bought me green lights tomorrow. all right. There were a certain delayed gratification. That's a green line. Let's go to the simplest one in the book. Put the coffee in your coffee filter the night before you go to bed so you can get up in the morning and just, poop, press the button. You set yourself, you gave yourself a green light. You set yourself up. You were kind to your future self. So I noticed there were certain choices. And that's a very simple one. But I noticed there were certain choices I made in my life that had to know, I also noticed that there were certain hardships that I had that I looked at them in a different way. And I either realized that, okay, There's nothing I can do about this or I need, there is something I can do about it, but I'm going to quit pounding my head on the wall, and I've got to re-approach this situation from a different point of view to get to the other side, the proverbial green light. I also noticed that there were many red and yellow lights in my life, hardships, crisis, that revealed themselves to have greenlight assets later in my life. A year abroad, I spent.

It was a living hell for me. I was going insane. I've never been more lonely and out of my mind. in my life, but I wouldn't be sitting there talking to you with the life I have right now if I didn't have that year. I specifically wrote down. I wanted to ask you about the doolies. The doolies. That should be a movie in itself, just your year. Well, I've written a script. There's a script. Okay, good, good. Hopefully that is me. I think it's a black comedy. Okay, good. I think it's a dark, dark comedy. Yeah. So that was a year where, you know, I was, when you read the story,

you see, I was going out of my mind and really trying to find my bear. And really trying to find my But it was also a year where I didn't have everything. I didn't have the infrastructure around me that I could rely on, meaning I didn't have my friend, I didn't have a girlfriend, I didn't have a golf clubs. I didn't have my most handsome I'd won in my senior year. I didn't have mom, dad. I didn't have my job that kept 50 bucks in my back pocket. I didn't have any of those things.

I was in the middle of nowhere with nobody. So I was forced into the Socratic dialogue to try and figure stuff out on my own. And it was clumsy for a while. It was and that's when I really leaned in to actually write. It was in that year. But that year was so hard and I endured it based on a handshake saying I would not come back home before the year is over. And in the endurance of it, I remember every time I'd be going like, I got to go back home. I'm losing my mind. This is not going to work. I mean, we're going, no, no, no, no, no, hang in there. Don't pull the parachute yet. There's something in this for you. And there, and there was because I was forced into an introspective year and I'd never been introspective before.

So I was forced to find and forge my own identity on my own. I think there's a lot of people that struggle with that, particularly our audience that are trying to figure out. I know I don't like where I am in life. I don't love this job, but I don't know how to get to the other side where it seems like people have everything they want. And one thing you mentioned about that story in particular was that you continually sort of floated around in this. Am I crazy? Is this normal? Why do I feel like this?

What can I trust? You needed to find a solid place to plant your first. foot so you could get your bearings and sort of build on that. And it came from them asking you to do something that you absolutely knew. Well, I know that's not who I am. And you sort of built on it. Can you share what that moment was like for you? Absolutely. So there was a lot of odd things happening with me in the family that I was living with. And everything I kept going, well, we'll call that cultural differences. Well, we'll call that culture. I kept taking the high road. And in hindsight, I look back and I go, You dumbass McCona.

If that was a cultural difference, you better be different. But what happened was the one thing and I needed, sometimes it can start with one little thing. They one night asked me to call a mom and dad. And I remember that was like, no, thank you. No. And I tried to take the high road again by going, thank you for thinking of me that way.

But no, I'm not calling anyone other mom and dad other than my own mom and dad. And it was very clear to me that that was not negotiable. And I needed just that, at that moment is when I started to really find myself. Because I said, okay, I have something I can plant my flag on. Finally, after four months over here, I have something that's like, no, no, no, that's not for discussion. I'm not calling anybody other than my own mom and dad. And that gave me some footing. It gave me a stance to go, all right, well, now I've got that in my pocket.

There's one. because over here and all the other things that I have no idea what's going on, that it's loaded up to about 50. I finally got one thing that I'm very clear about. And I needed that clarity to give me some identity and sense of self. And from there, I worked out of it and started to compound on the things, the assets that were more me. But I talk about this in the book.

A lot of times we don't know who we are, what we want to do. And give ourselves a break on that. And instead, by process of elimination, start eliminating the things in our lives. that do not feed who we truly are and are not what we truly want to do. Look, we don't all get to do what we love. The unemployment rate would be sky high if everybody just said,

I'm not doing it unless I love. So we go to work. Sometimes we get fortunate and our work turns into a career. Sometimes, you know, we get a job or a career where we actually look forward to Mondays. But that doesn't happen across the board. But if we can find a spot, hopefully, where we go,

what are my innate abilities? What do it is it that I love, actually, that could be in demand, that it could be of a service, that could be in demand, because we have to, business, we've got to realize supply and demand. And what is there a way, is there an angle in the business structure that I can parlay what I love and do some really hard work, evolution, and education to make a product that could be in demand? Then we might be able to, we have a better chance starting to make a living, doing something where we actually kind of do look forward to Monday. It's not a guarantee. but I find if we can parcel something that we're ready to really put some giddy up and some hard work into that we also have an innate ability to do, which is what I try to talk to younger kids in high school and college about.

Because it's hard to know what we want to do. But, you know, eliminate what you're not good at, what you don't want to do, and then try to ask yourself, is there an innate ability that I'm willing to work for to evolve into being something that can be a product that could be in demand that I could supply? Yeah, that's so good. Hey, you know, you mentioned like, you know, not everyone gets to do what they love. And everything I can tell or read and from what I know of you, you love being an actor. You know, you're good at it. Obviously, you've won a lot of awards.

But it wasn't all like from reading your book, you weren't always planning to be an actor, right? Like you were actually. Yeah, you and I had a similar story. We were both kind of a law school in both of us one different ways. So what changed? Like, how did that transition go from? I'm going to be a lawyer, which is something very respectable, most parents. I mean, I remember the day I told my dad I wasn't going to be a lawyer.

Like, I know that transition, right? So how did that work for you? How did you go from I'm going to be a lawyer to I'm going to go and act? Yeah. So being a lawyer was the only thing that I had ever expected myself to do and my family expected me since I was 12. It was a great debater. I would argue points longer than anyone else and have some good points.

So I go to University of Texas. I do my first two years of college liberal arts. Now comes that time. after two years where you better be focused a little more on what your credits are for, because if you change your course direction after your junior year, you're going to lose some credits. So I'm like, I'm not sleeping well. The idea of being a lawyer was waking me up at night, meaning you graduate here, you go to law school, then you get out, maybe get a job. You don't really start making a mark until your 30s. And I was like, I don't really want to spend my 20s

only learning. I'd been writing. I had a friend who was a, in film school at NYU, I've been sending him short stories. He's been like, you're good writer, Matthew. And you know what? I also think you should think about in front of the camera. You've got good character. Well, I couldn't admit the fact or that, oh, maybe I could be in front of the camera. That was too, I don't know, sounded foolish.

And maybe it was some kind of serious and half-hast modesty on my own half of thinking I couldn't do it. But it was out of the vernacular of my dreams. Sure. But I did think, oh, what if I go to film school, I could get in the storytelling. in business. And that sounds good. And I think I could be good at that. But dad's paying for school. So I got to call dad. This is not going to go well, I think. So I decide. I plan it out. What's the best time to call it? All right, 7.30 p.m. Tuesday night. He'll be home from work. He'll have had a good dinner. He's having a beer with mom on the couch. He'll be happy.

He'll be open to a new idea. So I call it. Hey, little buddy. What's up? Hey, pop. Listen, I don't want to go to law school. I want to go to film school. Now I'm starting to sweat on the other end of the line, thinking I'm about to hear you want to do what? You know, I was raised blue collar. You work your way up a ladder and you're going to be our lawyer. And instead, what I hear is,

well, is that what you want to do? I said, yes, sir. Got another five second pause and I'm going. And all of a sudden I hear three of the greatest words that have ever been told to me. All right. Don't half ass it. And I went, oh, oh, I remember my knee.

He's buckling and just going, oh, not to, he didn't only just give me approval. He gave me freedom and responsibility and shot me like a cannon out and gave me something to be accountable for. And he loved it that he heard his son who he'd been raising to have the formation, the structure of this is the path you're going to go on. He loved that he knew I meant, no, I'm going to go my own way. No, I'm going to be a rebel. No, I'm going to do something that I'm going to do something that I'm going to do something. something completely surprising. And he knew by the tone of my voice, I'd been thinking about it. He knew, you know, it wasn't a hasty choice. I mean, it wasn't like, he knew about the tone of my voice

that I didn't come up with it that day, like an idea and throw it at it. And he appreciated that and gave me the freedom to go do it. And here I am. That's cool, man. You know, it reminds me, and I had no intention of taking the interview this direction, but I'll throw it out there anyway. You know, you, you know, the three of us kind of share a common faith in God. And it's almost the way that I look at, I used to think that life was like, we were like Joe, or not like Jonah, right? So like, God's like, this is what you're supposed to do. Like, I have this plan in place for you. You're going to go to this thing. You're going to do this thing. If you don't, I'm going to make a whale eat you. Right. In reality, I think that life is a lot more like your situation with your father. Right.

Like the, like, I think that the fact that you discovered what you loved probably delighted your dad. It did. And so it wasn't a matter of like, well, this, you know, now I'm going to punish you. But he was excited about that. Yeah, look, I mean, I talk about it in the book and I think about a lot in my life about, you know, this balance between self-determination and faith. And I always, you know, I've had my agnostic years. And as I write in the book, I was not so much trying to, in a denial of God, but I was into, hey, you better, you got your hands on the will. We each have our hands on the wheel. And I was pretty secure that I'm going, in my.

prayer that God's going, yeah, you, that's why you have, you know, will. That's why you have free will. You have your hands on the wheel. If it's all just fate, take your hands off the wheel and run the red lights. Now, that doesn't sound like a good idea. So you're, we are each driving. We are responsible for ourselves and our own self-determination in accordance with, I believe, a plan. So, you know, going forward, going forward, I've a, um, had many spots where I said like at that time when I was agnostic going you just got to quit letting yourself off the hook for certain things you're letting yourself off the hook for. There's certain things you're kind of forgiving yourself too quickly was my feeling at the time.

There's certain things you're letting slide and you're a repeat offender and quit letting yourself off the hook with this and let's just take it in our own hands. And I remember I didn't feel ugly. I was still nervous when I'd pray. I got more nervous because I had gone into this time where I'm like, it's about me. Nietzsche, it's about me. But I came to a point where I was like, you know what? I think God appreciated me going, it's on me.

I think he appreciated me going, put your hands on the wheel. And he sat back going, mm-hmm, there you go. Good job. I like a trier. I love a trier. Yeah, my son is 11 months old and starting to walk right now. I love it. Like, I love watching him try and fall down.

Like, I could hold him every single time. But I love watching him do that thing. And I think that's exactly the way that our life is kind of, I think there's such joy in trying from, from, you know, above, but also for ourselves. 100%. I mean, it's the, it's the approach. It's the overcoming. That's the verb. And the verb is the holy word. The now, when we've, you know, if we think we've got it down, one, it gets boring. Two, it's untrue. Because if we don't self-inflicted, life will and throw us a curve ball. We got to handle something. but it's the, it's the, I write about it a lot in the book.

I don't think it's, it's the process. If we, I think we are as individuals, even as a, even as a nation, we're each an aspiration chasing yet. And if we realize we don't get there, you don't land and go, ta-da, I got it now. It's a constant evolution. And hopefully it's a small ascension. You know what I mean? That it's not just a flat line. like, oh, I'm not even more evolved at 70 than I wasn't for.

I don't think that's true either. But, yeah, if it's a small ascension and we're continually chasing yet, and if we can stay in that race and commit to that chase, knowing that you never arrived, that, it's the way I said, can we just keep achieving, keep achieving things on the way to the unachievable? And go, well, that's the place. That's the fall down and get up, fall down and get up. Wait, Norman didn't pick me up each time.

It didn't make me so secure. I've got a teacher in acting that would say that, you know, I love to prepare for a role. I love to come in with a steady stance. And she goes, great, you're steady. You've done your homework. Now that you've done that, come into the scene on one leg where you're off balance and find your balance in the scene. So do the work early and then enter it and go, now I'm ready to dance and call audibles and work my way through the situation. Well, and so that's a point I want to address her too is you have this vibe, obviously, that like, you know,

just live in, like having a great time. You're just naturally, naturally good at acting. It just comes, I mean, I watched Dallas Byers Club last night for the first time kind of in preparation for this. And like, it looks like you just naturally can do that. But one point, I think you made it when you were talking to Tim Ferriss in his podcast, as you said, like, your game is the pregame. Yeah.

And so can we talk about that for a minute, like the preparation that goes into that? You're not like, or maybe you are just naturally gifted at this stuff. But I think there's more. Well, I think I had an innate ability to add instincts for it. But again, I didn't take an acting lesson until 1998. And I had been working for seven years. So I didn't know what I was doing. But inherently, I kind of did know what I was doing.

What I've learned is pregame pre-production is when I do the work. That's the sweat. That's the late nights. That's the opining going through and how many different angles can't look at this. So my job, as I see it, is one, to understand who my man is in a character and a role. Two, to now break down every scene where I'm coming in with four versions of the truth. So the director can say anything to me or another actor can do anything. I don't care.

Don't even say cut. Keep it live. Keep the camera rolling. I can handle this. Let's go. Do it live. Don't audition. Don't go get prepared.

I've done the preparation. Throw it all away. Now we're live. We're in the game. Call the audible. Look at the defense. Well, I didn't want to expect it. Change it up on the fly. We don't even need a time out. Let's go. And I can only do that when I do that if I'm fully prepared.

I can only, if I'm fully prepared as well, I don't get insecure. I don't get defensive. If somebody gives me direction or somebody does something that maybe I disagree with, just roll with it. I'll just dance with it. Go Eastern philosophy with it. Grab it, slide it on by and move on to the next. And so that's when I say when I'm working actually, when it's live, when I'm on set, that. Now I'm playing. Now I'm dancing. If I'm doing my job well, if I'm prepared enough, now I'm free. Yeah. Yeah, what you're describing is building a skill in what you're doing by preparing for yourself, educating it. You understand acting. And so if the defense comes at you differently than you were prepared to, you're like, hey, this is just football. I know what to do

when this happens. It's just football. Also do this if you're a defense attorney. And I played a few lawyers. When I was playing a defense attorney, I studied the prosecution's position as much or more than I studied the defense. When I started to play a prosecutor, I studied the defense as much or more than I studied the prosecution. So it's knowing also what is it the other sides, what is it that the obstacle that you've got to overcome, what is their intent? What is it they want? What is it they need? And understand that. And even agree with it. It's okay. You go over and agree with it. And then come back and go, well, now I even know what what their goal is, perfect.

I understand both sides. I would want that too. Great call. You see what I mean? So it's understanding the opposite, what would be the considered opposition as well to understand how to play. Understand your defense.

Understand the defense as well. You'll play offense better. And do you feel that's what made you a good debater when you were younger is that you had this natural way of looking at other people's perspectives, which made you better at your job? To have the empathy of the other side and trying to see the argument on the other side.

And I got to keep working on that too, because I can get pretty bullheaded sometimes and shut down an argument. And then when I go back and listen to myself or a good friend will go, you kind of didn't really discuss that. You kind of said that was, and I'm like, you know, I'll go back and go, you're right. I didn't even consider it. I was so secure that I was in the know that, you know, or when someone comes at you with a cliff notes version of a situation

and you've already been processing it for weeks or months, you're like, I don't have time to catch you all up on it. You know what I mean? Let me just listen to me, follow what I'm doing. I could be a better listener sometimes. now. You know, in talk about preparation and getting ready for those roles and stuff, you, you tell a story in the book and you talked about a friend of yours, his name, I want to get this right, Denton Van Zan.

Denton Van Zan. Yeah, right. So by the way, so Rain of Fire, I graduated in 03, and that came out, I think, in 2002. And I remember my senior year, I had a poster of Rain of Fire on my ceiling of my bedroom, because that was the coolest movie poster of all time and still one of my favorite movies. So Denton Van Zan, can you, can you talk about him? What attracted you to do that character so much? Well, you're, you're well on the way to have a Denton Van Zand Beard plus some. I'm working. I'm definitely working on it. So look, this was a time for out of two year of my agnostic years. And Denton Van Zan was not a guy trying to survive. Didn't Van Zan was a guy that should stave off extinction. So there's a freedom in that. I love to find characters that are islands of

men, that they are on their own. And you saw Dallas Spires, what's that man trying to do? Stay alive. Well, you want to have a role that calls up all your resources to the most base level, stay alive. That's, talk about a need,

not a want. That's a need. Well, Denton Van Zant was very similar. Stay off extinction. And so when I've had that in my pocket at every choice I make, what happened? You lose sentimentality.

You don't deal with it. with mendacious. BS, you don't, you don't get overly emotional with things that aren't just life or death circumstances, and you just handle the job and you go through. You have, so you have a very clear, singular vision that every, and it can be, what you do can be based off of how I behave and the choices I make and a character like that are all based off of, I don't give a damn bad anything else besides staving off extinction, my own and humanities right now, period. Next. So, man a few words. You know what I mean?

Man of, action. What are we talking about? We can do this easy or we can do it real easy. You know? Boom. Love it. Yeah, and the beauty of that frame of mind is that you can't let yourself off the hook.

Like you mentioned earlier, that's one of the enemies to success is when you start giving yourself permission for not being who you are, not hitting your own standard. And the hardships that life brings are often scenarios where that's not an option. Your circumstance, your environment, your scenarios are forcing you to hold yourself to a higher standard. Yep. And there's something about human nature that doesn't like that. But man, when you look back at all the people that have developed something special, it was usually in those scenarios.

You need it. A parent passes away. You have your first newborn. There's a family crisis. Boy, three things that'll shake your proverbial floor and go, oh, all the other BS, maybe I was worried. about, this just took first place. This just took priority. Whether I wanted to it or not, it's non-negotiable. Go handle that. I know in my life, that's been a lot of the times when that other crisis that I had, like, ah, what am I doing? I'm not getting the work I want or my career's

not going as well. That's when those things, I got a much better perspective on those things, because I was having to deal with something that was much more crucial. The birth of a child, death of my father, a family tragedy that needed me to be all hands on deck to handle the damn thing. So when those things come in life that are more important than maybe our career ambitions, I think our default thought is like, wait, but if I put my career ambitions in second place, I'm not going to achieve them or I'm not, then I've got to be as important. No, no, no. If you've got a good work ethic, trust yourself.

You're going to, you actually may do better at it because you've taken the pressure off of it, not having to define your end-all be-all because this real dire moment came into your life and interrupted your life and your own ego and made you go to work and you go back and things that I would be used to be maybe I would come out of those and go back to the situations where maybe I was would have been nervous or not taking the right risk and I come back and going, oh, I'm taking this because this is nothing. I do what I after what I just went through. This is nothing. Watch this happen. Press record. You know, we need them to sober us up sometimes. A lot of that clarity will come from knowing who you are and what the right move for you is in any given moment.

And I know, Matthew, you have a story or a belief system about when you became a father that the next six months of time, you had immense clarity on exactly who you were and what you needed to do. And I thought you gave some advice that was some of the best I'd heard when you said, whatever your gut tells you during that time, buy this stock or make that move, triple down on whatever that is. Brandon and Kevin here both just became new fathers. And I'd love if you could share some advice about how you know when you're in that zone. Because you're in it. Did that just all of a sudden change? Have you seen further, wider, or clearer in your life? Yeah.

Than right now? 100%. And a lot of it's just because of the perspective, right? Like I just have a kind of like what you just said, when you go through those hard moments of life, like all of a time puts them in perspective, but also when you go through the really good ones. Like, like, I completely changed my entire work life around that baby. And you just became immortal. You just did it. I mean, you've never been, man's never more masculine than at then at this time. And again, I don't mean macho. You know, I had certain things where even before

have my first show where maybe I was more, more macho or something. And I look back and I have to have my first time. I'm like, oh, you know, okay. Now, you know, the old, the old joke, of the old the old joke about, I mean, the old penis size joke is out the window now. Like, I just made, I just created a child. You know what you talking?

You know what I? I just brought life in the earth. Now, that's what that tools for. You know what I mean? So it's a great time of clarity. And I do believe it's when, it's when a parent becomes immortal.

And hopefully, you know, you're fortunate enough we all are that, our children have children pass it on. Their children have children pass that on. And it's the greatest shadow we can leave, the greatest beam of light we can leave. You know, talk about a legacy choice. He just made one.

You created one. And now when you're gone, what that, as you move on and that child moves as you raise and shepherd them and they move out of the house, that's the beautiful extension of ourselves, the most beautiful, I think. You know, probably my favorite line in the entire book was when you said the only, and you said it a couple of times, or the only thing I ever knew I wanted to be was a father. Yeah. And I just, I thought it just resonates. You know, like those statements that just resonate your soul?

And you're like, yes, like that. So I'm wondering now that you've been a father, you have three kids, right? Yeah. So what have you, I guess not so what did you learn, but, you know, to a young father like myself or many who are listening to this. Yeah. What kind of advice can you back on? How is your son, daughter? Yeah, I got two now.

So I got a daughter is four, but I got a son who's 11 months old. Okay. So as you're probably already starting to tell, it's more. more DNA than you probably thought. I mean, I realized that I was like, I really thought it was like 80, 20 to the environment side. Yeah. And I was a little to have a shot.

I'm like, oh, that's inverted. Yeah. They are who they are. Okay. I can. Especially with two. I raised them both the same way. It's like, why is my second one insane?

Right. And the first one was an angel. I don't know. Right. Um, the second one, which you're probably getting with your four year old now is how much sooner and earlier in their age, they pick up innuendo between you and their mother. They picked that stuff up so quick, Ben. I remember my son who was like, I don't know if he was two or three.

And there was something about the dinner that night. And I'm like, and they love corn, right? So I didn't know if we had it. So I say to Camilla and my wife, like, hey, do we have any CRON? I didn't want to say it out loud. Because I'd be like, oh, corn, we got corn. And if we didn't have it, one of them done. Like, do we have a C-O-R-N?

She's like, yeah, yeah, I'll get it. My son looks up. He goes, I know I've spelled that. Corn. I'm like, dang it. I didn't think he doesn't spell that yet. And then, you know, as you know, as, as, as you know, it's their first time every time. Yeah.

And though we've been down that path, a similar path they're going on or a situation 100 times, it's their first time. You know, I try to look at it like a limb on a tree. A child's not afraid of heights until they fall. So when do you take away that innocence? You know, if they're up there 10 feet, whatever, eight feet, and it's got a nice grassy lawn below it, and they're out on the limb, and they hadn't fallen yet,

and their confidence all get out, and maybe let them keep going, because if they fall, they may get a bump and bruise, and that'll be good for them. But then all of a sudden, they're up there about 30 feet, and you're like, they're not afraid of falling yet they're not afraid of heights but if they fell from that one we're going to the emergency room maybe i need to kind of calmly and coolly go hey buddy come over here look over here

on the trunk of the tree yeah come down there's a little lizard he's just below that come on and slowly walk him down to where you go like okay didn't want him to fall from that height um but yeah where do we let them go negotiate on their own because what do we remember the most painful lessons the difficult the difficult the lesson the experience much more than when we're told, don't go up there because if you fail, you would get hurt. They're like, what? I've never fallen before. Why did you just now make me scared of it for the first time?

You know, so where do we let them go negotiate? Where do we put in front of them, you know, not ask them, what do you want to do in life? Ask what do you love? Keep throwing that in front of them and then just try and keep them out of, you know, any kind of harm that could really, really harm them. But other than that, they're pretty resilient little boogers. That they are. It's been, it's been amazing to watch the, you've been through it now with three of them,

is watch their, what do they love? Like that interest, like, which way do they go? And then to be able to, like, try to pour into that where it's like, it's not my thing, but I just, I love the fact that Rosie loves ballet. It's, I don't know why. I don't get it. Right. There's something in her that just resonates that way.

Yeah. And, you know, they're turning me on. My, my, my, they, they turn us on as parents, uh, and get us into things that maybe we, we, we, we wouldn't have done before unless they were interested in that. I mean, all three of my kids are better on computers now than I am. You know, they teach me how to navigate this stuff.

And I got my daughter's the best at it. And she's got the scientific mind where the rest of us than family are trying to figure out how to get these things gone. She's just like, there you go. Oh, all right, thank you. My eldest son is very much like me.

We're storytellers. You know, we like to create like, you know, where's the, you can't find the car keys. well, maybe they were in the jacket that you came in with last night. And did Mama maybe put that in the closet?

Because maybe it's still in the jacket pocket in the closet. So maybe we should go there. Or maybe, you know, Mama took the car out earlier and she's got him. And then Vita will walk by. My daughter, the really one who just cuts right to the truth, walk by. And she's been over on the side, just drawn and doodling. And she'll just walk by without looking and go, hey, look at my picture. And you look at the picture.

And you go, that's great. And she goes, cool, thanks. Did you check the ignition? And you walk off and damn sure they're in the damn ignition. You're like, ah, okay. Levi and I were over working up a conspiracy theory, you know? And he just like, did you check the ignition? Later.

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All right, man. So let's go back to, let's go back to acting a little bit here. So, and I want to translate this to something everybody deals with. So you, you're getting started. You're doing these, you know, films here and there. And then you get this major role, I think it was a time to kill. And everything changed in your life. Can you talk about that transformation?

Like, what, what did that movie do for you before and after it coming out? So I started acting in 92 and dazed and views. But it wasn't until 96 in time. kill game at that I became famous. And I remember very clearly. So the Friday before Time to Kill K, like time to, it opens up 7 p.m. Friday night. Well, that afternoon at 4 p.m., three hours before, Time to Kill is about to premiere. I'm walking through Third Street Promenade, 400 people in the promenade,

396 mind their own business, four of them looking at me. Two girls that thought I was cute and a couple other guys who liked my wardrobe. I go having two sandwich and go back home. Also on that Friday, there's 100 scripts I would have done anything to do. But 99 of them were not being offered. One of them was. Cut to Monday. So we got Friday night it opens, Saturday, Sunday, now Monday.

Same afternoon, same time, 4 p.m. I walked back down the promenade to go get my tuna sandwich, just like I did last Friday. 400 people on a promenade, now 396 of them are staring at me. And four are not. It's completely inverted. Also, of those 100 scripts, I would have done. done anything to do just two days ago. 99 no is one yes. Now, Monday, 99 yes is one no. The world's a mirror. Someone comes up. I'm sorry about Ms. HUD. I'm like going, whoa, wait a minute.

What's your name? How'd you know I had a dog? How'd you know her name was Ms. HUD and how'd you know she had cancer to say, I'm sorry about it. You just skipped four formal howdies and went straight to that. Oh, I love you. I love you. I love, oh, we love you, Matthew. Wait a minute. That's a big word, man. My family. we've only said that to four different people. Everyone's saying that and throwing around. Do they mean it? I don't know.

So all of a sudden, you know, well, my ceiling of options in my life were the roof came off. My feet started to feel a bit off the ground. I just needed to discern what was real, what mattered, who I was in all this, what to take in as meaningful, and what to disregard. So I got out of Dodge. first place I went was to this monastery in New Mexico, Monastery Christ in the desert.

And with all the newfound affluence and all the champagne and caviar and patch on the back and oh my God, unbelievable, you're so great, blah, blah, blah. And all these, you can do any of these scripts. And I'm going like, wait a minute, two days ago I would have done any of them. Now you're telling me I can do all of them. What do you want me to do? How do I find some discernment and discrimination in my own self to decide. I don't know. I need more than 24 hours a day and you're not giving them. So I went away and I went to this monastery where they said if you come off this small little two lane highway and you walk the 13 and a half mile dirt road, if you ring the bell, we'll find a place you to sleep. Well, I go in there and I sleep the night and I wake up next morning

in the night and I told the father, the abbot of the non-shed. I said, I need to talk to somebody. I got some things going on in my life and my mind. I want to get off my chest. He goes, oh, this man, your brother Christian, be a great man to talk to. So Brother Christian, I go for a walk across this desert together. He's got his hands behind his back, and I'm letting it out, man. Oh, sins of the mind, sins of the thought, sins of the deed. I did this. I'm going, I don't understand this.

Whereas my head and my heart are not communicating as well as I wish they were. I don't. I feel disconnected from God, etc. Four hours, I purge, confess. Major confession. I'm weeping, man. we end up back at the chapel sitting on a bench. Now I'm finishing up my confession.

I'm boogers running down my nose. I finish. He hasn't said a word in four hours. Just listen. And I finish. Waiting there. 15 seconds ago, by nothing. And then I look up at him.

And he looks at me. And he goes, me too. And I went, oh, thank you. Oh, my God. It was exactly what I needed to hear.

here, he was letting me know that wasn't the only one, that this is part of a human experience. He did not give me advice. He let me know that, hey, this is part of a human experience. And it was, it let me forgive myself for a lot of things. It let me move on in my life for a lot of things. And I went back, you know, navigated, did some films. And then very soon after that, took another trip by myself, where I went off to Peru and floated the Amazon, had 22 days of my own with a backpack. And I've taken many trips into solitude and, um, and, uh, and, uh, and very much a, a backer and believer that that's good for each of us to do when and if we can. Yeah, totally great. I think that advice too about the listening, uh, something that most husbands could,

especially myself could take a page out of and learn. Because like, I'm the first one wants to be like, well, honey, this is what you should do to fix your problem. A lot of times. A lot of times our wives don't want to hear the solution. Yep. You know. Yeah. Yeah. Guilty, yes. I had a guy recently tell me, he said, when you get in those situations, like, ask you the question, do they want me to fix it or do they want me to feel it? And it says like that simple phrase, do you want me to fix it or do you want me to feel it? And I will literally ask my wife now.

Like when she's complaining about something, I'm like, honey, do you want me to fix this? Do you want me to feel this? What does she say? 99% of time. Like, just feel it with me. Just be here in this moment with me. Like, I don't need you to tell me how to do it better. All right.

So actually asking that question out loud. doesn't sort of overly contextualize the moment to where she's like, because you know what I mean? Sometimes we have to ask that question. It's like, well, now it's not romantic. It's like, now we're scheduling things. It's like, what do you mean?

If you would have just felt it, instead of trying to fix it, it would have been better than if you asked me if you want to be a feeling fake. So she's good with it. She's good with you asking. Yeah, she's been good with it. But the truth is, it's if you ask it,

I think you already know the answer, right? I think I already know what it is. So I don't need to ask it. Because the answer is always the same. Heard, heard, heard, heard. All right. So, okay, so let's go back to you got all these things that, I mean, you became famous basically overnight. And you got a million good options.

Now, are people listening to this show right now? Maybe we'll never, you know, be famous in that regard. But they do have a lot of good options that sometimes just green lights just line up and you just go. Yeah. And how do you know, how do you know what to do? do. How do you know what the right path is? How do you pick the right thing? Yeah, right? That's the great question. If we are and when we are in those times of affluence or we do, we have set up and do have a lot of green lights in front of us.

You know, I went through a bit of a time where I was in a non-deserving complex. I think it's got an updated name. Someone clinically called that. But I went through a time like, I just, you kidding me? I mean, all this is awesome. I'll just do. I just do this. I mean, I'm so happy to be here. But a lesson I learned after my father passed away or continued to try and learn is being less impressed and more involved. You know, if we have, if we're in a fortunate position to have green lights in front of us that we've created or gotten lucky or whatever, it doesn't matter. We have to look and go, all right, let me ask, because I can now for the first time, let me ask myself if I really want to before I do. because you can waste away chasing green lights that are plugged into a little two-volt battery

that aren't going to shine for long. You know, there's stops. They're not stays. So how can we define the ones that are like, no, that's, that's an eternal green light. That's a green light that that I'd be honored to do now and I believe will pay me back and I'll be proud of tomorrow, whatever that proverbial tomorrow is on our deathbed or beyond. So disseminating between those in times of affluence is a real, is I think the real art and a real challenge, especially when it comes upon us for the first time, as I was talking about earlier.

Wait, wait, wait, I need more than 24 hours a day. I would have done any of these yesterday, and now you're telling me I can do all of them. Try and choose the ones that, I mean, try and jump ahead. I'm a big fan of jumping ahead in our lives. And in the book, I actually call it the ultimate ahead, which go all the way to the eulogy and say, what's the story that's going to introduce me when I'm gone forever,

and I'm writing that story now. But if you can't go that far or have trouble going that far, just go ahead five years. If you can go further, go 10 years. And have a look back and have a conversation with yourself and 10 years looking back going, how is that? What do I think about that time, that choice you made, that way forward? Also, you know, there's a lot of lights we catch on the way to where we want to go. And if we're fortunate enough to be able to see where does we want to go, ask if that's the right kind of,

if it's on the path or if it's a detour or sometimes actually that's a green light, but it may actually be taking me the other way. And maybe having me do it a full U-turn. That's not the one I want. I've got my headline written where I want to go. So again, that's that's when you can ask yourself if you want to before you do is a pretty good one. Yeah, I like it. I heard one of my basketball coaches when I was in high school told me that one out of 10 people can handle adversity.

but out of those 10, only one of them can actually handle prosperity. That the weight of prosperity can be very, very difficult. Right. So can you share a little bit about what you've learned when it comes to maybe wanting more green lights than you're ready to handle at this point in life and that not always being a blessing? Yeah. I mean, look, we, you know, I go, again, I think it's an art on both sides. There's an art to running downhill when things are going well. I have face planted myself when things are going.

going with that non-deserving complex. Wait a minute. This is going too well. It can't be this good. I don't deserve this. Boom. Oh, well, yeah, you didn't need to do that, McConaughey, you know, because the uphill's coming as we find out later, right? So that's not a great prescription, although I understand it. There's other times where it's going so well, as you said, that you just caught up in it and you're like, you're just going, man, I've been doing this for two years now. I'm not even, I'm on autopilot. I don't even feel my feet on the ground. I, what's important to me? I don't know, but I can do it to just keep on doing it. We have to create some sort of demarcations for ourselves when we're succeeding.

Or else it can all start mel together. And it feels like one thing. And you look back and, oh, my gosh, my career is so awesome. And just where I wanted to be. Oh, my gosh, my wife and I are divorcing. Oh, my gosh, my kids are wondering where dad is. Ah, I got all the ass. I went into the black here, but I went into the red back there.

So where do we constantly check in? on how's my career doing? How am I doing as a husband? How am I doing as a father? How am I doing in my relationship to God? You're just checking in with these things, whether it's at the, even at the end of the day or at the end of the night, if we can't get to them through the day, but trying to check in and go, am I still in the black here? Am I still in the asset section in these parts of my life? Because sometimes it's easy to get the blinders going full ahead in the green lights and not look in the rearview mirror and all of a sudden or not look next to you. And you passed by. You know, you're running faster than your spouse.

You're running faster than your kids. And you've blown by them. You look back and you thought they were right through your side. And they weren't because you quit. You weren't looking. So we just got to just check in, I think, from time to time and say, what are the things I value? Let me write those things down and just daily kind of check in on those. And no, we're not going to be perfect because, you know, if we've got a good spouse,

we've got a good, good family, they'll understand. There's a season for everything. Hey, dad's going to really go hammer the road right now. I mean, I'm, dad loves what he's doing. He's so happy to have worked to get to a place he loves what he's doing. He's really going to put his nose down on this. Okay? So I'm not going to need y'all to, y'all come with me or just be there for me and understand that I'll be away a little.

Usually they'll understand if we go, if we set it up early. And then if they understand, we can go do that thing without having to do the proverbial look over our shoulder and wonder if everything's okay back there. Because when we turn around, they're like, we're right behind you, man. Go, go, go, go, go. To just check in on those things and know that every one of our own actions. actions for ourselves affect a lot of other people. Yeah, man, that's awesome. Well, we almost got to get out of here.

We're going to let you go in just a second. I got like one or two follow-up questions kind of to close this thing. Yeah. First one, I'm curious, how do you balance professional ambition? Like, I mean, you know, wanting to achieve these big goals. And by the way, we don't have time to go into it necessarily, but the 10 goals sheet at the end of the book is phenomenal. Like, it was just crazy to read those 10 goals.

That's crazy for me to read too. Yeah, right? We'll leave that as kind of a tease to go, you know, check out the book, obviously. Yeah. But how do you balance that with this idea of desiring freedom and family and time? And how do you balance the two? Well, one, I'm very fortunate in that before Camilla and I agreed to try and have children, she looked at me in the eye and she goes on one condition.

If you go, when you go, we go. meaning my job takes me all over the world. She said when you go to work, we're all going. That's it, non-negotiable. And I pretty soon said, yes, ma'am, absolutely. I had interviewed quite a few people that were elder men in my business. And it asked them, how did you do it? You have children.

Your work took you away. How did you do it? All of them said, well, you either have to have them choose, friends in school in life or dad. And I let them choose friends in school. And every one of them said, I regret it. Every one of them said, I wish I would have been more selfish actually and said, no, when I go, we all go. We'll work out that other thing. I know it'll be hard taking away from your friends in times, but we're going to work that out because our family is what's most important. All of them regretted not doing that. So what we've tried is to do what Camilla said. If you go,

Popeye, me, we all go. So that's a big help, meaning I don't, I immediately have those things I was talking about a minute ago that don't go in the debit, that I don't want to go in the debit section, my husbandry and my fatherhood. I immediately have them at the end of the day

in person. It's a lot harder for someone who doesn't have the possibility to take their family with them and they got to go home and do a phone call. FaceTime helps, but it's not as good as the real thing. But it's a lot better than what it used to be just a phone call. but to try and maintain those relationships over a phone, it's hard, harder.

I, you know, I didn't make in my own decisions on the work I want to do, but my wife's very good at challenging me for the why on all my decisions. And I've learned that the work that I really do love and want to do and should have done, it's very clear when I post my argument. and she cuts me off in the middle and goes, I get it. Say no more. Yep, yep, we're going. Now, if I can't pull that off, her spider sense with me of knowing me and being able to convince her about why, she's like, no, I'm not convinced yet. I don't think you are either. And she's usually right. So I have a good person to bounce that off of when it comes down to, hey, we're going to

pick up our lives for six months and go away. And I know that's not easy for y'all to do. It's actually harder for y'all than it is for me. I have something that I'm going to build. I have a script and architecture of a character I'm going to build. I have something that's given me purpose every single day definitively. I have a structured life I'm going to. And you're all going with me and we've got to figure out if we're going to do mobile school. Are you going to put you in the school there? Housing? What's the day? Give the kids some structured through the day. You know, So there's a lot of consideration that goes into it, but I'm in a position where I try to balance those two. That's great.

I think there's something very valuable about your children seeing you in that role because so much work has gone in on your behalf to build a character that you have to make it in the professional world. And for your kids to be able to see how people respond to you, the respect that you hold, how you approach the day. Instead of just dad that comes home and plays around with them, they have no idea what you were actually doing in this huge chunk of your life. Yeah. It's teaching them the things that your father taught you. You need to pursue your passion. And with that comes hard work. Well, I got a great example on that, on that point. Please. So I win the Academy Award for Best Hacker. I got the trophy. My kids go, why did you get the trophy? I go, remember a year and a half ago when we were in New Orleans and every morning you get up, Popeye's already gone to work? I get home. You tell me I look like a giraffe because I was so skinny. I said, for that 35 day, at 30 days,

I go, you remember that when Dad Popeye's super skinny? And they go, yeah, yeah, I go, well, the work I was doing all day. A year and a half later today, my peers deemed it excellent work. Delayed, so it helped, it actually framed them with delayed gratification. And they said, oh, you can actually, because, you know, children are immediate. It's all about right now, right? They went, oh, you can do something today that you can get rewarded for tomorrow, which is basically what a green light is.

Yes, you can. You can design, you can engineer green light. through doing being good at what you do. And so that was a cool lesson for them that they saw, oh, Popeye comes home, he eats with us, and he stays up and he puts us to bed, and he stays up and he studies for two hours, then he goes to bed, he's gone when we wake up, he's working, and we see him on set. He's professional.

He knows his stuff. They went, ah, you were doing something then that they gave you a trophy for later. How cool. Yeah, that's awesome. I heard that story. I thought it was hilarious that your son mentioned that you look like a giraffe while you were out there winning an Oscar, but yeah. Yeah.

I did. A little bit. So the last thing I want to ask you, Matthew, is that with success in your chosen vocation or whatever you've done in life, it doesn't always happen, but it often precedes financial success. And I just wanted to get your two cents on what's your perspective on money, investing, giving, what do you think the best use is for money? What's your personal approach on that? Yeah. Look, I'm in a very fortunate position. We have the rents paid, roofs over our head, the pantry's full.

you know, we're able to, even more importantly or as important, if someone gets sick, we can go to the right doctor. My wife reminds us in the whole family of that all the time because where she came from in Brazil, it was not like that. She's like, man, we're in a position where if someone gets sick, we can actually go to the merchant room, but we can reach out and try and find someone who's the best to handle that situation. We cannot take that for granted.

She reminds us to that often. You know, I don't know. I mean, everyone's, it's personal because I don't, I'm not one that wants to die with the most money or with the most toys. It just doesn't, I don't know, it just doesn't, I don't know, doesn't turn me on it. At the same time, I'm very fiscally responsible, meaning I don't, I'm all for that. I'm off for that old adage. Hey, if something's on sale, don't buy it unless you would have bought it if it was regular price. You know what I mean?

Yeah. So I came from a family that's. very much about value in the dollar and you don't waste. And if you see a pinney like, you pick that damn thing up because you found a penny. You know what I mean? So, you know, we're trying to try to do the best teach the kids that. As far as the giving back, well, I've got my own foundation that Camilla and I started, the Just Keep Living Foundation, where we put a lot of our funds in that, a lot of my speaking engagements, money I'll put to that. I will say this. I do not think that charity or philanthropic,

is truly anyone's personal responsibility. I think it's people's person's choice. And I actually have said this before, and I've had to wiggle my way out of this to explain it, but I'm going to say it again because I believe it. The more selfless we are, we kind of find out that it was actually the most selfish choice. In the long run,

meaning the stuff we do with our foundation, is a very selfish endeavor. To see those children receive what we're able to give them and see the smile on their faces, selfishly makes me feel good. I'm not manufacturing that idea. I'm not manufacturing that feeling. It selfishly makes me feel good.

And I believe that that's the spot that I know I'm trying to chase down, which is where does the best decision for the I also become the best decision for the we? Where does the most selfish decision become the most selfless? And the most selfless become the most selfish. Where does what we want become what we need and what we need actually be what we want? That's the honeyhole, I mean, going forward to try and chase down. I don't know if I'm ever going to get there.

But that's what the coolest do is like Jesus and stuff are doing. They were part and parcel. Those were not a contradictory idea. You know, they were the third eye. They were the paradox, the beautiful place of truth. So, you know, I mean, everyone's, everyone's got a right to do what they want to with their money. I don't want to leave my kids too much to where they don't feel like they have to work and create and go make something happen. But I do want to leave them enough to go, hey, we've introduced you to this affluent life.

We're going to give you a little something to get started. But here's enough to be a fishing pole, so to speak, rather than lay out, you know, an unopened account of the fish market. You know what I mean? A sushi bar. Yeah. So, you know, everyone's personal with that. I guess it becomes, you know, how much is enough? Everyone's got a different, but it's a good question for anyone to ask,

everyone, anyone to ask themselves because what's really enough? I mean, I'm already into the, I don't think any of it's soft money, but after a certain point, it's like, what is the difference? Is more going to actually create any difference quality of life? Yep. And in some places, you can go actually no less and getting rid of some things. that I have because you know what happens. You get more money.

You need to go build a getaway. Well, then something you need to build a getaway from your getaway. Then you want to be able to get away from a getaway from a getaway. And you look at me like, geez, I got four places and I got staff and every one. And the taxes on those things. We were there for like two days last year. Do we really need that place? You know, so to actually de-scale sometimes and go, instead of making Bs and 10 things in our life,

sometimes it's best to go, wait, let me get four things in my life that I want to make straight A's in. and have more quality in those things and really double down on those. That's an excellent, excellent way to end this show because, again, like that advice of, I haven't wrote that down in here and underlined it in the book and circled it as you said you were getting B's, straight Bs in a lot of areas of your life and you paired down to just a few A's and just made a huge impact on me. So thank you, Matthew, for joining us today. This is phenomenal.

Cool. Really good. Thank you all. Thank you. All right. Now was our episode with Mr. Matthew McConaughey. a phenomenal speaker, storyteller, and just like all around wise dude. You know, like, I just like, I don't know, I've always liked that guy.

That's why I was kind of obsessed with getting him on the show. He's very humble. I really liked that he was just so relatable. There was, it just felt like you were talking to your buddy the entire time. And those are usually the people that have the most to offer because they're not on this pedestal thinking that, well, I'm more successful than you are. He's literally sharing a lot of the struggles he had, a lot of the mistakes he made that led to being successful. And man, that's just such a valuable thing for everyone to hear that it was red lights and yellow lights that led him to the green lights that propelled his career forward. And who doesn't need to hear that sometimes. Yeah. And there's, I mean, there's so much we did not cover in today's because we only had an hour to sit down with them. But I mean, like I said, I'm not just saying get the book because I want you to get the book. Like the stories are amazing. Like everything from his parents to his like the story of like he stole lumber. and built like a massive, like 13-story, like, what do you call it,

a tree house to, I mean, him getting arrested for drumming naked in the middle of the night, which is like crazy story that you'll read about in the book and so much more. So check it out again, greenlights, greenlights.com. You can get his book and or anywhere books are sold, I'm sure. And with that, I think we better get out of here. David, anything you want to close up with? Yeah, I thought it was very humble of you that you didn't mention.

He asked you to be his butt double in the next movie. You could have taken advantage of that and let our audience know, but you kept it to yourself. You know, you know, I didn't want to like, you know, I don't want to brag or anything, but, you know, we do look pretty much identical. You do. I appreciate that about you that you didn't share it. But I thought that everybody should know that Matthew was actually coming after you pretty hard and set up an appointment for you to speak with his talent manager. Yeah, you know, I try. So, well, thanks, David.

Well, thank you for your hard work. Getting Matthew on here, Brandon. You're a rock star. So we really appreciate you. Well, thank you. Thank you, Kevin. producer Kevin. And yeah, we'll get, we'll get everyone out of here. Thank you guys so much for joining us today. If you enjoyed today's interview, please don't hesitate to leave comments, questions, whatever.

If you're watching this on YouTube, leave them there. If you're listening on a podcast app, that's cool too. Make sure you rate and review the show. Let the world know that this is a good episode and a good show. You can show this on your Facebook page if you think other people would get a kick out of listening. And that's all I got. So thank you guys. You guys are the best. You guys are what makes the bigger pockets community is so amazing. It's the people who are everyday listening to these shows and then taking action on the stuff to improve their life and the lives of those around them. So thank you guys. You guys are the real rock stars and the real movie stars. For I guess for Bigger Pockets, my name is Brandon.

I'll let David take us out. All right, all right, all right. This is David Green for Brandon. But Double Turner, signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com.

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