BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 415: Studying Billionaires: The 3 Timeless Principles for Wealth with Stig Brodersen

Episode Date: November 8, 2020

Ever wanted to know how Mark Cuban, Richard Branson, and Warren Buffett seem to invest with ease? Or how you can leverage and measure your risk to make billionaire financial decisions? On this episode, Stig Brodersen – investor, teacher, and host of the popular We Study Billionaires podcast – brings you his distilled wisdom on success, mindset, the stock market, and the 3 universal traits shared by ultra-elite investors (and no, they don’t include flying first class or eating copious amounts of caviar). Early on in his story, Stig found himself dissatisfied with his job and needing a change. So, he did what any rational person would do, and began studying billionaires starting from the top of the Forbes 400 list. He didn’t get far before he “found his fire,” discovering passion and community in studying the stock market and the most heralded investor of all time: Warren Buffett. He has since interviewed hundreds of guests on his podcast, and unearthed countless pearls of wisdom that he shares with you in this episode. You might be thinking: “They’re interviewing a stock market investor on a real estate podcast?” Yes, and any real estate investor could learn a thing or two! As a practiced student of the financial markets, Stig calls out all-too-common mistakes made by new investors, and shares a blueprint for you to use to determine if and how to get started in the markets, regardless of experience. In This Episode We Cover: The 3 timeless traits of billionaires Why real estate investors should “cross-train” in the stock market Assessing best- and worst-case scenarios Why you need to "resonate" with your chosen asset class Why real estate is an asymmetric bet with high reward for relatively small risk How to get into investing in the stock market with little-to-no experience Common mistakes of new stock market investors How a BiggerPockets member saved Stig's life on an overseas trip (really!) Links from the Show BiggerPockets Podcast The Investor's Podcast Network's list of best investing podcasts The Investor Podcast Network Click here to check the full show notes: https://www.biggerpockets.com/show415 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 415. Billionaires take asymmetric bets. And you know, you always hear that, you know, great risk, great rewards. And, you know, billionaires would just disagree with that. I mean, you could still take bets that if you're right, you would be ridiculously rich. And if you're wrong, you just didn't lose much. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small.

If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on? Everyone is Brennan Turner, host of the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, Mr. David Green. David, thanks for coming back on the show again, man. Not that I was worried about you not coming on, but it's good to have you here again. There's literally nowhere that I'd rather be.

Thank you, Brandon. All right, good. Well, today's show is all about billionaires. And I don't want that to scare anybody off. What really we're talking about today is some of the habits, the traits, the things that wealthy people do. And like our guest goes into specifically how you can apply these things to your life. In fact, he goes into three specific traits that billionaires have that you can adopt your life today to immediately become more successful and pretty much every area of your life that stuff applies to, which is pretty cool.

So we're going to get to that in just a minute. But before we do, when we get to today's quick tip? All right. So our quick tip is simple. So recently I actually on David's recommendation, I went and refinance my house because he's like, we actually in today's episode with Stig, we talk about the house I bought and it was expensive. And I went and refinanced it and I saved like, I don't know, almost $1,000 a month. I think it was like $700 or something like that.

Way lower interest rate. It's awesome, right? But it brought up me and David were talking about that earlier. And we were just talking about this point where like sometimes people focus so much on acquiring new stuff or trying to buy something new, build something new, hire someone new. And sometimes it's worth looking at what you have and saying, hey, can I optimize this better? Because like my work of refinancing this house wasn't that difficult. But I saved more than I would have if I would have bought in several new rental properties,

which would have taken me a lot more work. And so that's kind of the quick tip today is if, I mean, whether it applies to, you know, refinancing or something. totally different. And if you're going to refinance, just call them, call a couple mortgage brokers, call a couple lenders. I mean, if you're in California, called David Green. Like, whatever. Like, just call somebody and be like, hey, what rate can you offer me? What would my new payment be? And see what they can do because it's just a good way to preserve some more money and make some more money. David, any thoughts on that? That's a great point that you saved more money refinancing than you

would have made if you were to go and acquire more property. And it was less work. So, and it cost me no money to do it. Yeah, it cost me no money to do it. So, yeah, that's kind of The ROI on that's like infinite. Infinite. Yeah. It's like the upside downside conversation we had on today's show with our guest. Stig, I'm going to get his last name, Broderson. I hope I said that right.

Stig is awesome. We talk about risk today. And I just think that's a really good example of like refinancing is a perfect example of what we're about to talk about later on today's show. You'll know what I mean when we get there. Yep. Great point. Yeah.

So yeah, anyway, listen, we go a little bit into stock market investing a little bit, like beginner mistakes. Not a lot of time on that, but a little bit. but a little bit because there's a lot of people listen to this that want to balance portfolio, real estate and stock. So we talk a little bit about that with somebody who has studied it like more than almost any person I've ever known in my life. We talk about how to know what asset class is the right one for you and a whole lot more.

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All right, let's get to the interview with Stig Bruterson. And by the way, everyone, so Stig, if you're wondering how he ended up on the show, besides the idea, he's wicked, smart, and super cool, he has his own podcast called We Study Billionaires. You've probably seen it in the iTunes or Spotify or Google Play, you know, whatever you're listening to podcasts on their rankings because he has got a really like top rated investing show. Again, called We Study Billionaires. So we are super lucky to have a guy like Stig with us today. So with that said, let's get to the interview.

All right, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast. Stig, how are you doing, man? Welcome. I'm great. I'm great. Brandon, David, thank you so much for having me on your show. I mean, it's an honor. Oh, thanks, man.

I'm excited to dig into. your story a little bit, your life. Maybe we can start by just getting a quick background on, first of all, who you are and why are you here today? Like, you're not an active, like superactive American real estate investor, like 99% of people on this show are. So kind of what's your background? Yeah, I'm actually sitting in Denmark right now and I am Danish. And I know for most of you're like, a Danish, isn't that like a cake or something you would go to the bakery? Like, no, it's like you're, it's just a person from Denmark. So, yeah, I was here and, you know, I got to know, I got to know your team. And so we just thought about it could be fun to like chat and and perhaps I could

bring something else to the game. You know, I am not a typical real estate American based investor. I'm, I'm definitely in this other weird thing, you know, studying billionaires, talking a bit about stock investing. So, yeah, so I guess that's my background. Cool. Yeah. I, you know, and the reason I thought this would be fun too is because we, you know, myself included tend to getting these ruts where like all I do is surround myself with the same type of people who do the same type of investing. And so what I'm trying to do is get outside that zone a little bit. And I want our audience to as well, I think like,

what else is possible out there? And then not so much even this. Maybe they're not going to go and invest the same way you invest. But I want them to think and I want people to think and I want to think the way that you think. I want to learn the way that you think and the way that you process. And I know you interview a ton of really, really high value people.

People are very smart and very wealthy. And you've studied this, obviously. you have a podcast on that you study billionaires, right? So you know this stuff. And so I just thought our audience could get a ton of value. So why don't we start at the kind of beginning? You know, my producer, Kevin here, says that we need to ask you about your connection with bigger pockets. And I have no idea what that is.

So, you know, what's up with bigger pockets than you? You know, you guys probably don't know it. But, you know, the next time we got to meet up, not only will you have the traditional Danish desk that told you about before we started the interview, Stig Fleska, Basilisos, We will... Stick, stick fingers, vanilla sauce. Exactly. Okay, got it, got it.

And so we will also have, I think I owe everyone on the team a beer. And I know that your team is growing, so it might be very expensive for me to promise that. But, you know, it's pretty cool. So back in 2016, I actually didn't have a relationship really with bigger pockets. I was in Seoul, South Korea. And I didn't know anyone. And, you know, I didn't speak the language. And, well, whenever I say I didn't know anyone, I sort of had this one cup of coffee with this

random dude who was there. His name was Kevin. And he heard about me because we before then had interviewed Josh on our podcast. So, yeah, yeah, you know, that was more or less that, you know, just gave us this great idea that we should have like a mic flag. You know, he was, he was, he was, they're very reason for that. And so, so, so that was really it, you know, not like a close-knit connection, anything like that. But, you know, we were there and, you know, I feel a little weird. This was, I wasn't together with Kevin whenever they happened. This happened, it probably a few weeks later.

And I just started to feel a little weird. Actually, I didn't really feel good at all. And, you know, I had to have to be hospitalized. And the doctors told me I had appendicitis and I needed surgery right away. And I know this, you're already thinking, this is a morbid story. It has a somewhat good ending. So I do want to lead with that. And so, you know, nice doctors at the world.

They were like, no, you know, it's bad. You know, you need surgery. We only have VIP suites available, but please, you know, show me your insurance. And so that was pretty bad, not just because I still, you know, to this day, doubt if they truly only had VIP suites available. Or they could just feel I was a very, let's call a motivated buyer. And so I didn't have any valid insurance and the hospital wouldn't take my visa card because, you know, this was a large amount in a foreign currency, in a foreign country even. and my, you know, my bank automatically blocked my card because, you know, it was just weird. It was just procedure.

And it was daytime in Seoul, but like it was the middle of night in Denmark. So I couldn't call anyone for them to raise my limit. So what do I do? I knew one person there in Seoul, my friend from Bigger Pockets. And he came to the hospital and bailed me out. And it wasn't, it was a pretty sizable, like, pretty sizable bill. Let's just call like that. And I'm not, obviously I'm not telling me a story because I want people to, like, I don't want you, Brandon, to be like flooded with hospital bills from your listeners. That's not what I'm saying. But I didn't know the guy. He didn't know me. But because of bigger powers, because he knew we had this relationship, he trusted me enough to just like, you know, put the master card down to be like, I'm going to pay for this. So guys, what can I say? I own you probably more than one beer next time. It's, it's, it's, it's incredible.

incredible would you guys have built with bigger pockets. It's just unbelievable. Well, thanks, man. Yeah, I like to think of the bigger pockets community as just like, like, it's weird because you think like real estate investors especially and just people in like in business and entrepreneurship would be very against each other. But what I find is that most people in the bigger pockets community are are always for each other. Right. We're always helping each other out and trying to like, you know, grow as a community, which is just kind of a cool thing that Josh built and, you know, David and I are kind of carrying the torch today. So that's a very cool story. Bigger pockets saved your life.

You can cut me a check in the future if you'd like to. Stig, I'll take. That's a comment. All right. So let's talk about billionaires for a minute. First of all, where did the whole idea, like what's the story behind we study billionaires, the investor podcast network? Like, where'd that come from? Yeah. So it's a good question because studying billionaires, I mean, it seems like such a tall order. I mean, who would even start doing that? So, you know, this goes all the way back to 2012, 2013, probably even before we started. And, you know, I just hated my day job. And I'm sure a lot of a lot of your listeners can really resonate with that. And so, you know, I'm with some friends of mine. And one of my friends claimed that being successful is not really a secret, which was, you know,

nice to know, because to us, it was like this big black box. You know, some people were rich and we definitely were not rich. So how did it happen? And his idea was, and by the way, he wasn't rich, But his idea was just that you could just do what other successful people are doing. And even if you're not doing as well as a billionaire, I mean, hey, you might still end up becoming a millionaire. So why not go into some of the same habits at least? And we obviously, we had a few beers at this part in time. So we were just all about big talk. Like we got to conquer the world, right?

So what we did was that we pulled up the Forbes 400 list. because why wouldn't we? Just for inspiration. And at the very top of the list, then you have Bl Gates, $72 billion. And I was like, am I going to be the next Bligates? Well, you know, I probably couldn't think of a person in the world who would be as bad as creating a new Microsoft and disrupting technology as me. So, you know, so much for being the next billionaire, right? So number two on that list, that was Warren Buffett.

well, amazingly $58 billion, but still, you know, a nice chunk change. Poor guy. Poor guy. Right. Yeah. So to some extent, it seemed a lot more like me. And keep in mind, I didn't know anything about stock investing, but, you know, he was sitting at home figuring out what to invest in. I mean, it didn't seem easy, but it didn't, I mean, it seemed a lot easier than what Bill Gates did. So, you know, reading about him and, you know, it's, you know, He just fascinated me because he started talking about he was always tap dancing to work. And, you know, if there was one person that wasn't tap dancing to work, that was me. And, you know, he didn't have a boss.

Check. I like that idea, not having a boss. So, you know, I decided to figure out how do I invest in stocks? And, you know, at that point in time, you know, I thought perhaps I could be the next Warren Buffett. And it probably took me one to two seconds to figure out that I'm not. You know, no, not would I ever be. And so being a student at Warren Buffett, you know, I went to this Warren Buffett community. And this is as dry as you can probably think, you know.

So I would go to this, you know, online community about Warren Buffett, talking about stockpicks. And I met my co-host back then. And we talked back and forth about, you know, not to the same extent as bigger pockets, but you were still like, hey, stranger, let's see if we can help each other become wealthier. Let's help each other, you know, invest. And so, you know, I would say at that part in time, we had a reasonable idea how to invest. Well, let's say I was just less bad. But, you know, based on that, we decided to start what was called VMS's podcast at the time.

And there was later rebranded to we study billionaires. That's cool, man. Yeah. So you said this other podcast to study billionaires. And then I'm assuming you started investing as well. I mean, you're in like stocks and stuff right now, right? Like what do you personally do investing wise? Like what have you taken from all these people and applied to your life?

Yeah. So for us, you know, it was really stocks. Stocks always resonated with me. And so I also invest in real estate. But I don't have the, I think there was just some. asset classes that speaks more to you than other asset classes. There's just something that just makes more sense. And so, you know, for someone like me, I could probably have, you know, chosen any other billionaire if at least that billionaire has been, you know, top of the list. But the whole idea about,

you know, sitting at home, I tend to be an introvert kind of guy, but, you know, sitting at home, studying, you know, doing some research, investing. I mean, that, that seemed quite appealing to me compared to so many other type of asset classes. So, yeah. You know, I don't want to move past this because it's so powerful. We talked about this actually on another recent episode we did. And I use this phrase like, follow the fire. Like we even sell a T-shirt now at Bigger Pocket.

It's called Follow the Fire. In other words, when you have this like interest, it's fire for an asset class, like, follow that. Like, I don't think, like, this is going to sound sacrilegious coming from the bigger pockets guy, right? Like, I don't think real estate is the best investment for everyone. I think the best investment for everyone is the one that fires them up, right? it's the one that you were like stocks. Oh, I'm running towards. Like, I tried reading a book on stocks one time of my life. I couldn't get through it. I got through like one chapter. And I was like, I don't get it. I don't like it. It doesn't feel right to me. But it resonated and you're like your soul.

You're like, yes, this is what makes sense. And that's why I think you leaned into that. Do you also find like is that is that what you see in all your studying of billionaires and all the people you've interviewed? Do you see that common trait? Is they they went after what they just loved? Yeah. I think you bring up a good point. You know, it. I think we all can start with, you know, analysis paralysis, especially whenever we are just starting out with something brand new. And, you know, there might be, I guess they might be like listening to me or listening to you and like, oh my God, you know, Brandon and David have done all these amazing deals. And how can I ever do that? And you just, you know, get your feedback, just start

making one deal. Just like, just do something. Just start investing one dollar and then see what resonates with you. I mean, you could be, you can be the smartest guy in the room. But if you haven't invested that, you know, single dollar, you know, what is it really worth? You know, you really have to, you really have to go out there. So really to your point, um, studying, starting billionaires, like how do they invest and what do they have in, in common? I would say that we probably found three timeless principles for all the billionaires that we studied. And so, uh, so let me, let me list those three and then I can dig into each, uh, one of them. Um, I want to say the first thing is that billionaires actually wants to be

millionaires. The second thing is that they make asymmetric bets or asymmetric investments, if you like. And then the last thing is that billionaires are just learning machines. And so to the first one, people might already be like, hey, I want to be a millionaire. Does that mean I'll become a billionaire? That sounds. Yes. Guaranteed. Yes. Sign me up, right? And so I would argue the 99% of people do not want to become million ass. And that's why they don't want to become billion ass. And you might be like, that still doesn't make any sense. But let me, let me try and let me try and confuse you. What do you think of if I say, I want to give you a million dollars? So what do I think of? What do I think of? Like, yeah, I'm going to give you a million dollars.

I don't know if that's the best test. This is for the sake of argument. Sure. I think, I think you, well, my first thought is you'd have to be really rich to want to give me a thousand, a million dollars and a very nice guy well thank you but you know i've done this test with a few because people do come and ask me oh like how do i how do i become a millionaire a billionaire and like like i'm and and i would say that i always ask them so okay you you get a million dollars like what what then and then most people say i'm definitely going to buy a bigger home big tv bigger car and perhaps you already

a millionaire brand-na so I don't even oh even a billionaire who knows I might be a billionaire I'm working there working there and so you know most people don't want to be millionaires they want to spend a million dollars yes yes and they're wishing for

a million dollars and again there's nothing wrong with spending a million dollars like hey you earned it spend them that's fine but if that is what drive you spending a million dollars, you probably never become a million in the first place. And let me just give you one story. You know, billionaire Charlie Munger, vice chairman of Berksie Hathaway, you know, he did it for independence. It wasn't a question of money. It was really independent.

So, you know, he just loved the game so much. And he was so much into the habit of underspending, investing the difference that, you know, with time, you know, it was just logic for him to become a billionaire. And so with that million, it wasn't, it wasn't like Michelang restaurants or fancy cars. It was chips on the table. He could develop more real estate projects. That was what he spent his money on. And whenever he stopped doing that, he would then start investing in stocks and buying businesses. And the entire point is that you have to love the game. If you don't love the game, if you don't, if you do it for spending, no, that's, it's just be too hard for you get there. Yeah. It's such a good point. I mean, like, I'm sure you've heard the same studies or whatever, more like most athletes, like professional football players who make millions of dollars end up going bankrupt or a good portion of them or people who win the lottery within like three years, they're flat broke again. Because like the mindset behind becoming a billionaire or a millionaire is very different than the mindset behind just the average person. And until you have that mindset and the mindset is like when you get extra money, do you immediately go spend that money? That's a big piece of it.

You know, today, like, I make a good chunk of money. I make a good amount of money that comes in every year. But I dump almost all of it. I really a sizable portion into either real estate or hiring people. Because I think those are like the two best investments like for me is like growing my business, which is the mobile home park empire that I'm trying to build. We're buying a bunch of mobile home parks at the open door capital. So there's that. And then there's also like my own personal real estate where I'll actually put money into my own real estate fund or into other real estate deals because those are the two things that fire me up. And so like, and I know, David, you're the same way. You take that extra income and you hire employees or you put it into real estate. Because that, that mentality just really drives people. Like, again, I'm glad you brought that up because most people, when they make an extra dollar,

they figure out how to spend an extra dollar. They make an extra $10. They spend an extra $10. And the worst part is when they do that by them trapping themselves in a lifestyle where they have to continue doing that forever. And therefore, they never get ahead. They never get the extra savings. Like, I know people who are living paycheck, paycheck,

making a half million dollars a year. And it's like they can't get out because they got their, you know, $900 a month car payments and three of them. And, you know, it's crazy. David, what do you think on that? I think this is one of the most brilliant things ever anyone has ever said on our podcast. And I love its brilliance is in its simplicity because it applies to everyone that if you, if you want to spend a million dollars, which was the point, you're never going to, well, not never, but you are less likely to make a million dollars. Because when you study the people that are million they're not asking that question of what would I spend it on. When you said that to me, I remember when you asked that question, what would you do with a million dollars? I remember being around 21,

22 years old and asking myself that question and thinking I honestly would tell someone I don't want that money because I knew it would crush me, that I didn't have a foundation to support the weight of having a million dollars and that I knew that I needed to build it, but that what I would gain in the process of building that foundation would allow me to, you know, have much more than a million dollars. And then, Brandon, your point of when you're spending money, you are loathe to now invest, because investing is risky. If I put my money into this deal, I'm always asking myself, what would happen if it goes wrong? What happens if the price of the asset drops? What happens if I have vacancy? I'm always asking a worst case scenario,

and I think most people naturally think that way. Well, when you're a saver and you have low expenses, you feel much more comfortable taking the risk that you need to build the asset class to become a millionaire. When you're not good at saving and you know that or you don't have a lot of money in the bank, when someone presents you with the opportunity that the millionaire would jump on, the first thing you think is, what if it goes wrong? I can't support this. And then you don't take action. So it really is an amplified process of saving money allows you to be more aggressive with making investments,

which grows your net worth, which makes you more experience, which gives you more opportunity. And you love that game as opposed to as soon as I get a dollar, I spend it. So I'm always afraid to invest. And I can't get out of my job and putting all my time into this W2 because I need it to pay for the things that I've already bought that I had the car payment, the big house, whatever it was. It really is that simple. And each of you made amazing points. I just, I could talk about this forever. I think everyone should listen to this and really ask themselves that question.

If I got a million dollars right now, what would I do with it? That's good. So Stig, let's talk about, so the first one was billionaires. They want to become millionaires. And I like to tell people like, like wealth is not an accident. Wealth is not a, you know, like I got lucky. I got in the right place at the right time. I mean, yes, there are examples of that.

But almost every wealthy person I know became wealthy because they were intentional about becoming wealthy. Like they, they, it's a skill. Like I wasn't bored naturally good at anything, but crying and, you know, crap in my pants. but like I'm good like today at real estate because it's something I practiced and I read about and I studied and I followed the fire to get there. So if that's the first thing is they want billionaires like had an intention about it and they want to become millionaires. What was that second thing? Let's move in there. Yeah. So the second thing would be that billionaires take asymmetric bets. And you know, you always hear that, you know, great risk, great rewards.

And, you know, billionaires would just disagree with that. I mean, you, you could, you could still take bets that if you're right, you would be ridiculously rich. And if you're wrong, you just didn't lose much. And so, you know, if you take the story of Richard Branson, you know, he, and this was all the way back in 1984, but I just loved this story. You know, he was, he was stuck trying to leave Puerto Rico for the British Virgin Islands and his, his flight was grounded. So he figured out how much it would cost to charter a plane from Boeing. And then he compared that to how much, you know, if you had to pull that across all the passengers, how much would that be in case you're wondering, that would be $39, apparently. And so, you know, he just went, you know,

down the aisle trying to sell tickets just to test it out, you know, talk about a meal-bobo product. He didn't even have a plane at the time, right? And so that was really the birth of Virgin Airlines. And you probably know that as a discount carrier today. And you might be thinking, Well, starting an airline, that is super, super expensive. Like how can we, how can we do that? Was it because he was super rich? Like he already had a record company at the time, but he actually didn't make it up as money because of that.

And it does take a few million dollars to, you know, buy a commercial plane. But what he actually did was he called up Boeing and he can be very, very persuasive. And he convinced them that, you know, he would try and lease a plane just for one trip, you know, just one trip. And the plane he was talking about, that was already, I mean, it was already grounded. Like he could, he could just, you know, hey, let me just pay the operating cost just for one flight. And you know what he said to Boeing, you know, if this successful, I'll buy the plane. But if this is, if it's not successful, you know, yeah, I don't know if you're going to lose money, but at least I'm going to pay for, you know, one trip.

And so he gave Boeing a asymmetric bet. And in return, he himself got an asymmetric bet. because yeah, what happened if he was successful? Well, you mean, yeah, he probably had to sell a few bucks for that. But, you know, if you were successful and he was pretty sure he would be, you know, he could start his own company and he would get, you know, validation right then and there, whether or not it would be effective. And so, you know, we've seen that story so many times.

I could also mention, you know, Bill Gates starting Microsoft with Paul Allen. You know, he dropped out of college, as I'm sure you guys know, because he was worried that he would miss out on the personal computer revolution. So he basically made a deal with his parents that if he couldn't make Microsoft successful, well, he would just go back to school. And so that was an actual domestic bet. If he was right, hey, that's Microsoft. And if he was wrong, I mean, what did he lose?

Like a semester two? And he would probably get an education worth much more than the one he was getting just from failing in doing Microsoft. So we just see a lot of those. astermic bets with all the billionaires that we're studying. Dude, that's such a good point. Because oftentimes I think we look at bets and we look at things as like a 50-50 odds. Like, well, if I win, I'm going to get a lot of money because like that's how gambling, right? Like you put all your money on black or you, you know, whatever. It's like you either win or you lose and you lose everything or you win a lot.

But the reality is with business especially. And I stay at a lot in real estate in that like there's so many opportunities where there's tiny, minuscule risk with the opportunity for significant reward. It's like so out of balance in our favor that it's not like, well, I think most people when they think of investing, they think of real estate or they think of stocks or think of any kind of investing as a, that's risky boy. You know, you sure you want to be putting your money in that? You might lose everything. It's like the world thinks it's like a 50, 50 chance you're going to lose everything. And that's what investing is. But it's not.

It's usually like starting a business doesn't cost that much. But the upside is huge. You know, buying a real estate deal, even making an offer. I mean, here's a real tangible example. You know, we make offers on real estate deals all the time. David does as well, right? We're making offers on deals. Like, worst case, usually, let's say, for example,

I'm going to go offer on a million dollar mobile home park, right? I'm going to put down $10,000 in earnest money. Now, that sounds like a lot of money, $10,000 that I'm risking. But the truth is, like, I get that money back if I back out for the right reason. So there's a lot of these bumpers we set up to be able to reduce our risk. And then even if, even if at the end of the day, I didn't get that $10,000 back. that's $10,000 at a very low chance of losing 10 grand and a very big chance of making hundreds of thousands of dollars.

And so, especially when you're talking to investing, we're talking about 5, 10, 20, 30 year timelines. It's almost, I mean, as long as I can manage correctly, there's almost no chance of me not making hundreds of thousands of dollars off that. So that's that asymmetric like bet that billioners are making. That's kind of what you're saying. Am I summarizing that well? Right. Yeah.

Much better than me, by the way. But yes. That's exactly what I'm saying, Brandon. Yeah, so again, it's another one of those points I never really thought about because, again, like, I think the world just kind of looks at these bets as a 50-50. David, what do you thoughts on that? It's another brilliant point. And I think as you were talking, Stig, I was thinking about why it is that people tend

to think that risk and reward are always equal, that the more money I can make, that inherently there has to be more risk. And it's always the inexperienced to assume that. When people ask Brandon and I, should I flip a house? I don't know. What if I lose all my money? What if it doesn't sell? We tend to inherently give advice, well, could you rent it out if it didn't make money on the flip? If your rehab budget went too high, would it cash-filled? That's a perfect example of how we are naturally thinking. Dude, okay, so true stories. I've said this on the podcast before, I think, but when I was looking

at moving to Hawaii a couple years ago, and I was looking, I mean, my houses before were like in the $200,000 range. Like, that was a big house for me. And then all of a sudden, there's this property that's almost $2 million out here in Hawaii that I really really, loved. I fell in love with this house. I know they say don't fall in love with your house, but I fell in love with the house. And I called Dave and I was like, dude, there's this amazing house. There's no way I'm going to buy this thing. There's no way I can do this. It's 10 times more than anything I'd ever bought before. And he asked, like, in the, the logic he walked me through was let's walk through the downside. So let's say you have to rent out the property. It's a three unit

property. So you have to rent out all three units. What happens? I'm like, oh, I guess I break even. He's like, okay, so what's the upside? What could you get if you, if you held this property, Is it going to be worth more or less than $2 million 20 years from now in Hawaii with an ocean view and a pool? Oh, this is going to be worth a whole lot more than that. He's like, so what you're telling me, Brandon, is that worst case scenario, you invest in something and you break even for a while. And then it's worth millions of dollars more later. And best case, you live in Hawaii, live for free or cheap because you're house hacking and get to enjoy Hawaii life and have millions of dollars later on. And I'm like, that was the conversation that completely changed my life because I was like,

David, you're right. And I put the offer on the property. We bought the property. Now I live in Maui and I live cheaper than I would in most areas. And so like that was just another example of that bet that in my head I was thinking like 50-50 or that that I'm making a crazy bet. But I really wasn't. Wow, that's an amazing story. And, you know, I mean, that's absolutely amazing.

Yeah, right. God, I mean, and you're right, because, you know, it just seems to be like a binary income, sorry, a binary choice, right? You're like, either you're going to have, you know, you're set for life or you're just going to, you know, be in debt person the rest of your life. And that's, that's not the two scenarios that we're working with. It's not. It actually reminds me one of my favorite quotes of all time.

I think it was Mark Cuban said it. I'm pretty sure. He said, the great thing about entrepreneur, I'm probably butchering the quote, But the great thing about entrepreneurship is you only have to be right once. And what he meant by that is you can start something and then it fails. And you learn a little bit. So, you know, I didn't even know if I'd call it a failure. But you start something else and then it fails.

And you start something else and you make $4 million. And you sell that company for $4 million. And you're like, oh, well, now I'm set for life. So again, it's, I love that idea that like these asymmetric bets that there's things we can do. And then shifting our mindset of it's risky to it's really not. very risky, but the upside is tremendous. I think that's just a great way of thinking. That's cool, man. Yeah. And let's, hey, let's talk about Macuban because the third thing, the third castoristic that we see with Billioness is that they're just, they're just learning machines, right? And so

whenever people think about MacCubin, they might be thinking, Shucks Tang or, you know, Dallas Mavericks, whatever. But, you know, he is just the most voracious reader that you can think of, you know, reading four or five hours today. And I mean, he doesn't have to, if you think about, you know, reading to become a billionaire because, you know, he made it, right? Yeah. And so, you know, whenever he started out, you know, he was trying to sell, you know, computer software, you know, in Dallas. And, you know, went to the library, you know, every single day to study those manuals and bring them, break the manuals home with him just to, so he could excel in that because the other guys he was competing with, you know, they have their

fancy degrees and, you know, they said all the right things. But he was like, hey, if I spend, you know, four, five, eight hours a day, whatnot learning about. about this, I can probably compete with them in no time. And he was, he was, you know, right. And especially like if you're in sales, you know, yeah, degrees of one thing, but like, if you can, if you can sell, you know, everyone wants to work with you. I mean, that's just so, so powerful. And so he said there was really, you know, hey, you can pay, you know, tens of thousands of dollars going to college or, you know, spend 20 bucks and read one book in one day, which is the most valuable lesson, another accomplished person have spent a lifetime learning.

And that was just his process. And to me, that was just absolutely amazing. But my Cuban is really just one example. I mean, billionaires are by nature just super, super competitive. Because business is the ultimate sport. I think that's a quote I have for my Cuban, right? And so you compete 24-7 and if you don't keep learning, you'll just lose. I mean, the only way to stay competitive

is just doing like going into the right habits learning outperform your your your competitors just by being smarter than them and yes we can i mean we can enjoy the proceeds but going back to the first point there is that as much as you can enjoy your proceeds it has to be a habit it has to be something that's fun and billionaires yes they like having a billion dollars but it's fun for them it's a i don't want this to sound condescending any way if i say it's a game because then people like, oh, you don't respect other people. That's not my point at all. But it's a game.

They like the game. You're sitting in your, you know, multi-million Hawaii, you know, mention. But you still do what you do because like you're still hungry. And if you weren't hungry, that's, I mean, you probably wouldn't have gotten there in the first place. Yeah, it is a game. I talk about that all the time, like the game of real estate, the game of investing the game of all. Like, when you think of it that way, it doesn't mean you take it lightly. Like, I don't, I mean, if you've ever seen me play Monopoly,

you know I don't take games lightly. But like I, like it's a game. It's something that's fun. It's exciting. I like doing it. This is phenomenal. I mean,

those three things for billionaires. Like the fact that they, they do study and they're, they're voracious readers. I love that. It makes me feel like, hey, maybe I got a shot at this billionaire thing.

Because I read all the time. I love reading. And whether that's listening to audio books or podcasts, it's just education, right? They're learners. Lifetime learners. And then the asymmetric bets was,

you know, just solid. And then just that intentionality become they want to become a millionaire or, you know, billionaire down the road. I think it is solid. There are two kinds of real estate investors, those who have reviewed their insurance and those who think that they have. Most don't realize their coverage wasn't built for how they actually invest.

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and that is the stock market. So I don't want to spend, you know, a ton of time dissecting the ins and out of the stock market. But for somebody who maybe wants to get started, like diversifying their portfolio, maybe they've doing real estate for a while and they want to start setting aside money in the stocks. Where do I start? Like, you know, yeah, what's the first steps? What have you found to be a successful strategy? Where should I go?

So it's a very great question that you, I mean, it's a, it's something we should all ask, you know, when we're starting like, are we sure that we are, that we're following the right path? And you might be like, oh, God, stock investing. I don't do anything. Where should I start? And, you know, I would start studying Warren Buffett, you know, not just because Warren Buffett is, you know, probably the best investor in history, but he's also a great teacher whenever comes to investing. And you just need to have this solid foundation whenever you start up. I mean, you can always and should always treat your approach as you become smarter, but you know, you'll just drift around and confuse yourself if you don't have a solid starting point. And, you know, I could say the same thing. You know, where do you start whenever,

you know, you're in real estate? And it's not just because I'm here, but, you know, go to bigger pockets. Because, you know, bigger pockets, that's the 10 commandments, right? So you might tweak it, you know, you might improve on a few things. You might find something that really works for you. But, you know, have a solid foundation before you start because otherwise you would just be hearing too much noise and too many things it just doesn't make any sense. And so whenever you do start learning about Warren Buffett, you know, one of the two things that probably happen. Perhaps you will say to yourself, I just love reading financial statements, you know, and other things you don't say on the first day. But you would say something along those lines because you just

find that you'll never be able to being exposed to stocks before, but it's just so much fun. And if that's what you want to do, that's great, you know, definitely. stocks, stocks are for you. I mean, that's the fire you're talking about in the beginning, right? Then the more likely thing that would happen is that you find stock investing super boring. And you can see why it makes sense in terms of compounding your wealth. You can see you want to diversify out of real estate. But you don't really enjoy the process. And that's completely fine, too. So what I would just say to that is if you really find stock investing interesting, it's okay to pick individual stocks.

You know, read those financial statements, you know, learn about those companies. That's great. You know, who knows, you might be the next, you know, Warren Buffett. If you don't enjoy it, you know, buy an ETF, you know, buy, you know, a global stock market ETF, something really, really cheap from something like Vanguard and just say, you know, I'm just going to put, you know, the same amount into that stock market every single day. I won't get the same amazing returns as I'll be doing in real estate. But, you know, I don't have to because I don't spend any time on it.

And it's something that's not as correlated. And it's just in terms of a mindset, you're like, you're doing okay. You're probably going to do better than most. But you'll get the average because you're buying the average. And that's okay too. Yeah. I think a lot of people look at investing like it's a science because it involves money. Just give me the step-by-step blueprint and I have to do it well.

But what you're saying here, Stig, is that it's more of an art. It's like a sport. We can all love sport. We all want to play sports. It doesn't mean that Brandon and I are going to pick the same sport based on our body type or what we love. Stig is drawn to a different sport than David or Brandon would be drawn to. So that's the first thing is give yourself permission to chase the sport that you feel like you would be best at. Brandon and I talk and he wanted to go train Jiu-Jitsu because he's built like Dalsam from Street Fighter.

That makes a lot of sense. Would it make sense for him to be a horse jockey? That would be terrible. Like the horse could probably ride Brandon. That's how he's built. Don't limit me, David. Don't limit me. All right. Okay, C Biscuit. We'll let you get out there. But even athletes, this is a to build on your points dig, they train in other sports to help them. You see a lot of defensive or offensive linemen in the NFL that train MMA because they're trying to build a base.

They're trying to get better with their hands and their feet moving. And they see elements from MMA that will help them in their job. So I think there's absolutely a place for the real estate investor to have part of their portfolio in stocks or the stock market person to have some. other options. If you look at business like it's a sport, you'll give yourself permission to make those decisions. And Stig, you also made a great point that it's not, it's not disrespectful to call it a sport just because there's money involved. If you look at professional athletes playing a game, most of them are more passionate and take that more serious than everybody who's going to work every day at their W2 job that are not engaged in it. They don't want to be there. You know, Tom Brady just ripped apart my Raiders yesterday at 43 years old.

somehow still just so passionate about playing this game. And we all admire that. Tom Brady said, I want to be a quarterback. I don't care if I have physical limitations or I'm 43 years old or I can never eat a tomato for the rest of my life because they're unhealthy. I love to see the people that have that same passion with what they're doing, where they're investing in how they're building their wealth. Yeah, that's really good, man. Stig, when it comes to the people that you see are successful at what they're doing. Have you picked up on a pattern that certain personalities tend to do better with certain types of investing? You know, I think it comes back to, like, what really fires you up. And let me try to put them into two different categories. I found that people tend to be

either tangible or intangible. And so I'm not a tangible person. Like if you told me how to, like, I don't know, fix a toilet or, you know, put up a sink or like, I'm like all thumbs, right? I can't do any of that. So I think there is a tendency to be a lot of people are very tangible and they're very good in real estate investing. You know, they go out there, they like they look at the property. They're like, they just have like intuition for it. And it probably there's probably something like when the first five minutes are like, this is, this is great, you know, using, using brandless medicine. for before, you know, about falling in love with the house in Hawaii, you know, I fell in love

with stock investing. I'm an intangible guy. You know, I don't want to drive different places and look at property. So that's just not my game. I don't have any issues with them. I'm sort of like using my own my own playbook in terms of, you know, I am invested in real estate, but I have another person doing it where trust, we're much better than me because he's tangible. Whereas for me, it's like, it has to make sense. You know, Warren Buffett, Warren Buffett is quoted as saying, if it doesn't make sense for you right away, it will never make sense. And I think that, I think there's something to it. I know it sounds very, perhaps very negative. And you're like, oh my God, you know, I've been listening to three episodes of the Bigger Pockets now and I don't

know if I want to be real estate investor. That's not what I'm saying at all. That's not the point. It's like either it resonates with you. Like, oh, I should actually go into real estate because, you know, that will give me a lot of independence. I can have a different life. If that doesn't resonate. If you're like, that's just a lot of work and have less time to watch Netflix. No, that's, that's probably not the way to go. So I don't know if I really responded to your question there. David, I feel I'm sort of like digressing. But yeah, that was sort of like my thoughts on some people are just more prone to do one thing compared to another. I think it's a great litmus test for the people that are trying to find their way. If you believe I'm investing equal stocks and you look at this and you

think, oh, I hate it. I just don't enjoy this. That isn't the way to go. And I think in general, the more successful that people become in business, the quicker they start to realize they hire the wrong person for the job. It feels wrong. You know it's wrong. You keep sticking it out, trying to get that person there, and they never do. And this, it applies to what you're talking about as well. And I think that's why this fire point is so good, because when you fill that fire, you're going to pursue it. You're going to be passionate. You're going to learn how to be good. You're at that. And if you don't have it, you're not going to put the time in. So it's very simple. And success can be simple. You just follow that feeling. Yeah, that's really good, man.

We're getting toward the end of our show now. And so I want to, I want to move away from the stock thing. But before I do, I want to just ask like mistakes. Like for those people who are getting into stocks, because I do plan to start investing more and more into those passive forms of investing because I'm getting tired of, you know, not that I change toilets anymore, but the more physical stuff. I'm working more and more towards the passive side of my career. And as I do, I'll be doing more stock. So what are the mistakes that a lot of stock investors make? I would say that, and let me first start by praising your community.

Because I think that real estate investors really have a leg up compared to stock investors, perhaps because it is more tangible. And, you know, so whenever you do your first deal, I really do think that those real estate investors have an advantage because let's say, you know, they get a quote. and, you know, $100,000, whatever the quote is for that. And they're thinking already, okay, so what am I paying and what am I getting? And, you know, they make some assumptions about that. And so whenever I'm thinking about, say, your first deal, and you would probably tell

me, you made a lot of mistakes. I think everyone makes mistakes whenever they do the first deal. But I hope at least you are like, oh, you know, how much does it probably cost? You know, what type of cash flow would it generate? What I think it's worth? and you might again, you might be wrong in your assessment, but at least that was your train to thought. Stock investors tend not to be as smart. That definitely includes me whenever I started investing. And our way of thinking in the beginning goes along the lines of, hey, I like Apple's

products. I should buy Apple stock. Or I like to say that Mark Zuckerberg is working for me, so I'm going to own Facebook stocks. And I don't think I've ever heard of any investor who or any stock investor who started out by saying, what is the stock worth? And then compare it to the price it's trading at. It's just, this just seems to be like a mental blocking whenever it comes to stocks compared to real estate where you're like, yeah, you know, what are similar properties being sold for? Even if you're, even if you're wrong, you can sort of like have an idea of what it is. For stocks, it's like, Apple is trading at 320, but I heard it's worth more than trillion dollars or two trillion dollars. Okay, I'm going to buy it three.

32. Like, that's just, like, that's typically just the way of thinking. And I'm definitely guilty as shot. So I think that is, you know, it reminds me of, it reminds me of, real estate investors who are like, oh, I love that kitchen. Oh, that color of the kitchen cab. It's beautiful. Let's buy that property as an investment. It's like, wait, wait, wait, that doesn't make any logical sense whatsoever. But that's what you're saying, like people will do often in stocks, they'll like the product or they'll like the person. And that's why they choose to invest in it, not because of the fundamentals of the company. Yeah. One 100%. And, you know, going to Walmart, you know, we want things that are cheap. You know,

whenever it comes to stocks, and you can probably say the same thing about, you know, in a hot real estate market. You just want to, like, it's just FOMO, right? Like, you want to get in because it's only getting higher. And you can't, you don't think about, you know, what, what the property of the stock cost and what it's worth, more importantly. And so I think that's generally an issue for most investors, but especially for something, for something like stocks that is so intangible. I think it's a, it's more of a pain for those investors than for other asset classes. So for anyone who are considering jumping into stock investing, I would say, if you don't know how to value a stock, don't buy it. If you don't know what a property is worth, you know, don't buy it.

It's that simple, but it's still, it's still very profound at least. You know, I didn't really think too much about it whenever I started. And I've just heard that story so many times. And so if anything, you can take away from that, from this interview, I'd say, you know, knowing the difference between, you know, price and value, it's just so important. That's really good, man. Well, there's no comparables for a stock. You can't say, well, that the one down the street sold for X, so this one should be worth Y. And it's really more akin to valuing it based on the price to rent ratio or the ROI that you can get on the investment.

Like investors tend to look at this from a cash flow. if we look at the internal rate of return and we say, okay, how much could my money do here versus there? It's more similar when you're evaluating a company, as you're saying, what is the strength of this company and how much what I expected to grow the money versus, well, Google traded at this and some other tech company traded at that. That other company is cheaper than Google, so they must be the better bet. Yeah. And I think you bring up a good point because for many, many problems, and keep in mind, I have very little knowledge about real estate investing, but you sort of have have an idea of like what kind of cash flow can it generate. For something like, something like Google or

you can make, you know, talk about any other company, at least for a lot of companies, you know, those earnings are just all over the place. So for you to sit and estimate, oh, what are the cash flow is going to be the next 30 years? It's actually not as complicated as it sounds like. But I think it seems, stock investing seems too, it seems too difficult to even get started with. And then whenever you're here, like, you know, hey, I should be investing in stocks, you're just like, oh, let me just buy that Apple stock or let me just buy that Amazon. I use Amazon all the time. Let's just buy that stock.

It's gone up lately. So why don't just do that? And I think that's very, very difficult. It's a difficult game to play because we primarily talked about, you know, go into the stock. But that's one thing. When are we going to go out of the stock? Like, if you don't know what it's worth, when will you sell it? Like, when will you sell that and buy something else?

I mean, it's just a game you don't want to play. Yeah, man. Very wise. Yeah, very much so. All right, well, let's move on to the last segment of our show here. This is called our famous four. This is the part of the show. We ask the same four questions every week to every guest.

We're going to alter them a little bit today because it's not a real estate specifically focused show. We'll call it the famous, you know, three and a half, we'll call it. But before we get to that, let's hear what's going on this week over around the Bigger Pockets Podcast Network. Hey, Brandon and David. This past Monday on the Bigger Pockets Money podcast, Scott and I sat down. with Nick Groover and reviewed his finances to see where he could make improvements to further himself down the path to financial independence. If you're feeling stuck in your finances and need a boost, this episode could be super helpful. Okay, now it's time for The Famous Four.

So let's get to The Famous Four again. We're going to alter this a little bit. Normally ask what somebody's a favorite real estate related book is, but I want to alter that a little bit and say, what's an episode of your podcast that people should go listen to later to kind of, you know, get an idea of what you guys have to offer? What's a good episode to refer people to? So we, we study a billionaires, obviously, and I could give a lot of handoffs, but, you know, and in the end, you know, business, you know, it's all about business. And whether it's stock investing, real estate investing, you know, it's all about people. You know, if you, if you understand people, especially if you understand people in a, uh, in a business,

context, you know, you just like, you're way ahead of the pack. So I would recommend a book called Never Split the Difference. We just did an interview with the author Chris Boss. And I highly recommend that. It just came out here a few weeks ago. So definitely worth listening to that. Pick up the book if you can, but if you don't want to do it, you can also just listen to the podcast. But other than that, you know, we talk about, you know, everything else. But I also want to highlight that I'm going to have Brandon and David. with us here in the month. So we talk primarily about stock investing, but once in a while, we're lucky to talk about other things, and we'll be talking about real estate investing too.

So starting billionaires, we have a focus on stock investing, but anything that could make you wealthy, we are starting that, and that definitely falls into that category. All right. All right, Stig, next question from me. In your own life with your goals, what are you most excited about in your future? So I have this goal. And I know it probably comes off wrong. I just want to put all the disclaimers that I have. I would really like to build schools.

Like that's my passion. I mean, this studying billionaires, investing, that is, I absolutely love that. It's step one. Step two, I used to be a teacher. I guess you could still say I'm a teacher now. that is to build schools in developing countries. I don't really have the blueprint, even though I have a lot of ideas in terms of how to do it.

But that is what I'm mostly excited about. And until then, I'm very excited about what I do right now. But that's the master plan now that you're asking. All right, man. I like it. That's awesome. You want to disseminate all this information that you've gathered and get it exposed to as much people as possible.

I love that. Cool, man. All right. My last question of the day. And David's got one more to kind of wrap us up with. But in your view, what separate successful investors or, you know, even billionaires from those who give up or they fail or they just never get started? So let me use the example of Warren Buffett. I know I keep on going back to Warren Buffett or even Chalemonger for that matter. And you're like, why do Stick need to like come up with like old dudes at least 90 years old? And the reason for that is really that we also find there's a lot of timeless principles in becoming wealthy, you know, British man of Babylon, you know. And so many other great books. And so we sort of like want to see what, you know, stands the test of time. And, you know, Warren Buffett said that if he weren't a millionaire by the time he turned 30, he would jump off the tallest building in Omaha, Nebraska. And this is not my way of saying that. You know, billionaires are just suicidal. I mean, that's not the point at all. But he really had a

focus on everything he was doing. And he had a plan. You know, as you said, you know, wealth doesn't come by by accident. And they take, they take full responsibility. Let me, let me give you an example with Charlie Munger, you know, his right-hand man, vice chairman of Berksie Hathaway. You know, he, he lost his son. It's a terrible story. He lost his son, nine years old of leukemia and literally dying in his arms. I mean, that absolutely horrible, horrible thing happening. And later, he lost his side on his left eye from a failed surgery. And so, yeah, so let's talk about the latter.

So what did you do? Did he sue the doctor? No, he said that he felt he didn't do his research probably because he went to an eye doctor. And with that procedure, there was a 5% complication rate. He didn't go with another doctor who had a new procedure with a 2% complication rate. he was like, I could be blaming the dog. First of all, it wouldn't help. But what could I have done? Really taking that extreme, extreme ownership, because you can't really choose your problems.

I know this is cliche that you can't choose your problems, but you can choose your mindset. I just found that so valuable. And whenever you look at virtues that you really admire, it's typically something that's not difficult to acquire, at least it shouldn't be. I mean, you might be thinking the brawn is, you know, awesome. But, you know, you don't need to be, you know, MVP or something to be, to be awesome. Like, if you really think, look around and they're like, oh, who do I, who am I? I really like, you know, David, you know, David's coming up with all these great ideas. He's, he's kind. He's humble. I mean, all of the things are, you know, virtues that you can acquire yourself. It's like no cost. You have to put in a bit of work,

but you can, you can decide to be that person. It's not being like seven feet tall. I mean, that's not that's not the point. And so that separates billionaires and, you know, the rest of us. I'm definitely working progress. Well, I love that you bring up the taking ownership and the story of Charlie Munger in his eye. Because like, it just relates back to something. I literally did this last night. Last night I get home. I was out at the beach with my family or something and we get home and there's a diaper. No, it wasn't a totally disgusting diaper, but it was a diaper all shredded over the floor in my room. My dog had taken the diaper and just shredded it.

And I literally yelled the words out loud, ah, stupid dog. And then I was like, wait, the dog didn't go into the garbage and pull it out. Like, I left the diaper after changing my son's diaper on the floor with my dog in the room knowing like that that would happen. It's like, who was the stupid dog in that situation? Was that my dog or was that me? And I think they're like, it was this moment where I was like, stupid Brandon. Like I had to like realize like it wasn't the dog.

And I think that's such an analogy for life of often as we yell at things like, oh, stupid this, stupid that. This is annoying. Oh, COVID. Stopped all my plans. Right. But in reality like, I mean, not that we're responsible for everything. But, you know, we have a tremendous amount of responsibility and the way that we direct our

life. And so I guess, yeah, look at that next time ever when you're listening to this and you get angry at something. Ask yourself, was it the dog being stupid or was it you being stupid? And I think that's what billioners do. Well, with that said, David Green, you want to take us out of here, ask your final questions and we'll wrap this thing up. This has been amazing. That was a great point, Brandon. Thanks for sharing that. Well, thank you. Thanks. Stupid dog. Last question of the show, Stig. This has been a fascinating conversation. Thank you very much for sharing your time with us. Where can people find out more about you? So, thank you for. Thank you. give me an opportunity to give a plug. People can search for The Investors Podcast Network. We have

multiple shows, millennial investing. We even have one about real estate investing, but you are free to edit that out. We have... Oh, we'll plug it. Oh, God, you guys are the best. We have something about work-life balance. And then also my show, we studied billionaires that I host with my good friend, Preston Pish. And every week we talk about financial markets, billionaires, and business, mostly on the stock market, like I mentioned there, but really anything, you know, commodities, gold, bonds, whatever you can think of. So, yeah, that's where we can find us. Awesome. Very cool, man. This has been phenomenal. Really, really enjoyed having you on the show today. I learned a ton. I can't wait to do it and chat with you all real estate on your show in the coming

weeks. And David Green, get us out of here. Thank you very much, Stig. This is David Green for Brandon future horse jockey Turner, signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the height, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast.

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