BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 42: Building a Monster Wholesaling Business with Mike Nelson

Episode Date: October 31, 2013

The concept of wholesaling still confuses a lot of people – and learning how to do it correctly to make great income confuses even more. Luckily, today on the BiggerPockets Podcast we are going to sit down with a wholesaler who is crushing it with his amazing wholesaling business. Mike Nelson is going to take us inside his business and show us how he is generating huge profits through systems that you can start to implement in your own business today. From marketing to outsourcing to partners and more – this podcast will take you from wholesaling newbie to pro in just an hour. Don’t miss this show! Read the transcript for episode 42 with Mike Nelson here. In This Show, We Cover How Mike lost 2k on the first deal Partnering with others while wholesaling Virtual wholesaling Mike’s exact process for wholesaling a deal Postcards vs. Yellow Letters The one direct mail tip that blew Josh and Brandon away! Tips and tools for finding missing homeowners How to hire a Virtual Assistant to help you in your business Links from the Show Accurint by Alexis Nexus BP Podcast 018 : Flipping, Marketing, and Wholesaling with Danny Johnson BP Podcast 038: Unique Strategies for Buying Real Estate with Travis Daggett ODesk.com Books Mentioned in the Show Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki The 4 Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss The E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber The Lean Startup by Eric Ries Tweetable Topics The secret to success in business is fixing other people’s headaches. (Tweet This!) If you don’t have a business card – you are inconveniencing the other person to write down your number. (Tweet This!) Connect with Mike Nelson Mike’s Blog WholesalingHouses101.com Mike’s BiggerPockets Profile Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast, show 42. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on, everybody? This is Josh Dorkin, host of the Bigger Pockets podcast. here with my jolly old partner in crime,

Barand and Turner. Hey, Brandon. He's making sound like Santa Claus on a rampage. Do you remember that old weird Al song? It was The Night Santa Went Crazy. I don't, but I remember eating. The night Santa went crazy. Anyway.

I made a music video in high school to it. It was awesome. Is it on YouTube? No, but I should put it on there. I do have the VHS. Oh, you have to. I got to find a way to do that. There are lots of people who would click on your video.

It was pretty great. And then point fingers at you and laugh. Yeah, it would go viral. Nice, nice. So things are good? Things are great. Things are great. Yeah, that's awesome, man.

That's awesome. Well, we've got a cool show ahead today. I'm pretty excited about it. Yes, me too. When we recorded it a couple days ago, and I learned like a thousand things in this episode. So I'm excited for everyone else to get to learn those too. Absolutely, absolutely.

Before we do, this is show 42 on the Bigger Pockets podcast. You can check out our show notes at biggerpockets.com slash show 42. And let's just dive in. Today we're going to have as a guest, a nice guy named Mike Nelson. Mike lives in wholesale houses in the Richmond, Virginia area. He's the co-founder of Smith and Nelson Properties LLC, a company that manages real estate in D.C., Maryland and the Virginia tri-state area.

It's interesting. New York, New Jersey, Connecticut was the tri-state area when I grew up. I guess there's all sorts of tri-state areas around the country. I didn't even think about that. Washington, Oregon, Idaho, the tri-state. Oh, really? No, I don't think so. Oh, okay.

Anyway, yeah, so Mike, Mike blogs at his site, wholesalinghouses 101.com, and he's an active poster on the Bigger Pockets Forum. today this show guys it's really chock full of some great tips for getting started and finding success

as a wholesaler if you have not yet done any wholesaling this this is definitely going to be a great show for you to pay attention to of course

you know make sure to come and ask Mike any questions you have on the show notes again at biggerpockets.com slash show 42 and you'll be able

to find links to all the useful stuff that we talked about. So without further ado, I'm going to give a quick plug to giving us some feedback on the iTunes system. Leave us a rating and review there. We love those. They help us get more visibility for the show. We're now exceeding 14,000 listens per podcast. So the show continues to grow. It's awesome. That's awesome. So managing properties can feel like a full-on circus. You're juggling vendors, tracking payments, chasing approvals across multiple properties, and maybe a few HOAs, all while trying to keep tenants happy and owners confident.

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Go to mine.com slash show me to see how mine performs and get a month of management for free. because if you're going to hire a property manager, hire one that manages your investment like an investment. Anyway, let's get this guy in on the action. Mike, how are you? Welcome to the show. Good to have you. Hey, thanks for having me.

Yeah, yeah, we're glad to have you. Let's do this. Let's go into it. What do we start at the very beginning? How did you get started? What's your pre-investing era look like? Well, the way that I got started in real estate was, pretty much reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

A good friend of mine, he told me we was both, I graduated college in 2009. We were roommates. And he told me once we started work, and he was like, you know, this is not for us. We can't do it. I said, you know what? I feel the same way. He said, I want you to read this book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad. And after reading that book, I called them back.

I said, we have to get started in the real estate. We have to get into this assignments of contracts, wholesaling. And so we went out there and did a little bit more research, did some research on it and actually got out there and got our first property under contract. To make a long story short, what happened after that is we lost $2,000 because we didn't know what to do. And I like to tell people that was an expensive education right there, you know, because what happened was we lost that money to the seller. He took it. He ran away with it, forced to, you know, he told us he was going to sue us. It's just a bad situation. So after that, we went out there and did some more research and tried to learn about wholesaling and assignments of contract.

And that led us to where we're at right now. Okay, I got to dig in a little bit. $2,000, not inconsequential. How did that go down so that folks listening don't pull off the same mistake that you happened to fall into when you did this deal? All right. First off, the deal was a great deal. The seller ended up selling the property and the person who, you know, rehabbed and renovated it. They ended up making over $150,000.

So we was set to make around $22,000 on the property. And, you know, we didn't know a lot, but we knew that this was a good deal. We got the property under contract, and the seller, he told us that he wanted to get the earnest money deposit through PayPal. Okay. He didn't want us to send it to an escrow, you know, to a title company. He said, I want to make sure that you're serious. He knew that it was a good deal. Come to find out later, what happened was they were going to foreclote or they was going to sell his mother's property at tax auction.

It's a story behind that, but he didn't want to deal with our title company. So we sent him the money through PayPal, and then what ended up happening was he gave us the contract. He didn't like our title company, and he said, I'm not going to settlement. We had a buyer lined up in everything. And we was about to go to closing. I don't like this guy. Let's switch title companies. And he left with our money. Wow. But you said now that he was talking about trying to sue you, seems it might be the other way around here with this guy running off with your money.

Well, the story is what happened was he didn't get along with the guy at the title company because the property was his mother's. And he was trying to get paid off of selling the property. and the guy at the title company, he said, you know, this doesn't seem right. You know, I don't like what's going on. And being that he would not let him go through with the transaction, the guy, he said, I want to go deal with somebody that's going to let me do this and get paid off of it. So, being that we didn't do that and we used our buyer's title company, the guy at the title company told us, he said, I will not let the buyer buy this property if you go to a different

title company. And we had it locked up. The contract was getting ready to end. We wanted to see it closed. So I tried to work it out. It didn't work out. He said that he was going to sue us for breach of contract because we didn't want to change title companies. And the guy at the title company who was getting ready to close on it, it was his fault.

So, you know, he claimed that he was a lawyer. We didn't know what we was doing. We didn't have an LLC. We didn't know anything. We were scared. So it just worked out that way. We lost the money. Sounds like an all-around cluster.

It was. Wow. Wow. All right. So this didn't work out well. Do we go and give people $2,000 from PayPal up front or do we stop doing that? Never. Okay. I'm just making sure because, you know, we got people listening. When do we pay our people? We pay them at? You pay them in escrow. There you go. You put the money in escrow with a title company or a closing attorney. Never pay them through PayPal. Oh, my goodness. Well, that is. That definitely was a mistake, but you know what? You'll live and learn, and that's hopefully nobody listening ever tries to pull this off and do that because, you know, we all make some kind of mistake, and hopefully that was the one for your career.

Yes. So what did you do after that then? You said you wouldn't have more education, you know, like you learned more. I mean, did you make money on the next project? Basically hanging out on bigger pockets. Bigger pockets was a big part of, you know, me and I tell you about my partner, my partner who told me to read a book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad. We ended up starting an LLC and going out there and flipping properties together. But reading up on Bigger Pockets had taught me a lot. And the way I actually got into it and got my first deal was that my grandmother was trying to sell her property in Philadelphia. And when she was trying to sell her property, what I did was I went out there and tried to find the cash buyers in the area. So I sent them postcards. After I sent them postcards, I lucked up by finding another wholesaler by a mistake. So I'm in Virginia. My grandmother's property was in Philadelphia and I tried to sell her property. So I went out there, found cash

buyers. A gentleman, he owned a rental property. I sent him the postcard. Well, he wasn't interested in selling, but he knew that his grandson was a wholesaler. He knew what he did so he sent him my postcard and at the time I got a phone call he left a voicemail message and he told me he said hey you know I'm an investor I'm wholesale and I do about 50 deals a year you know I would like to you know do business with you it seems like you know you're doing your thing and you're all the way in Virginia and you send out these postcards little did he know I haven't even had my first deal yet but me and him partnered up and on that same mailing I ended up getting a call from a gentleman who just recently bought a property he said

I'm looking for properties in the area. If you have any, come my way. So what I did was is I partnered up with the gentleman, the other wholesaler, and I sent off postcards to properties around that area, and that's how it all got started. That's how I ended up getting my first deal.

I was partnering up with that gentleman and just sending off postcards. Now, did you ever end up getting somebody to buy your grandma's house? Yeah, we actually, we ended up selling that. We made a little profit on it. We found a buyer. the gentleman who I found through that postcard who was a wholesaler, he actually found a buyer for that

property. Oh, that's great. That's great. And hopefully she didn't sell it at too much of a discount to shark-infested investors. No, she was happy. She got out. You know, she was happy. Yeah, that's great. That's awesome. So how did that partnership, do you still, is that the same partner you have right now, or is that a different guy and the partner you worked with? No, this is a different gentleman. him we're still on good terms. He actually, he exploded after me and him started working together and he actually went a different direction, but still in real estate. He went to a different market. So, yeah, I have different partners who I work with now, but they all do the same exact thing that he would be doing for me. Can you tell us a little bit about that partnership?

And just, you know, I don't care about the name or anything, but I'm just talking about the details. How did you guys work together? Was it like a 50-50? what did the structure the partnership look like? First off, it was a 50-50. Everything we did, we split it down the middle 50-50. The way that I brought something to the table and what he brought to the table is when I first started with him, I didn't know a lot. I just came off that deal losing $2,000. And the way I got started with him was, is I'll get these people calling me after I sent off the postcards.

I didn't really know the market. I didn't have MLS access. So what I did was I sent the properties over to him and I say, hey, what do you think? And then what he'll do is he'll say, you know what? We'll probably, if we can get it at this price, we can probably flip it. It'll be a good deal. And that led to all the deals that came in. I'll send them over to him in an email and he'll tell me, he'll say, hey, this is what we can offer.

We'll call the seller back, offer it, set the appointment up with him. And then he'll go out there, take a look at it, get it under property. I mean, get it under contract, and we'll put both of our names on the contract, and then he'll find a buyer, and we'll close on it and make 50% of the assignment fee. Okay, cool. So just for clarification, I just want to make sure some people, when you say flipping, you're referring to like flipping contracts, correct? Yes, flipping, wholesaling contract. Yeah, because I know some people say flip and some people say wholesale, and so those listening, I want to make sure that we're, everyone's on the same page that you're talking about wholesaling, like, yeah, or flipping contracts, though. Okay, cool. So why did you choose wholesaling? You know, after you read rich dad, poor dad,

what made you think, oh, I want to be a wholesaler instead of I want to be a house flipper or a, you know, buy and hold investor? What, how'd that decision come along? When I first got started, it seemed complex, but out of everything, investment, investment properties, actually going out there, renovating properties. This seemed like it was the, you know, it was the easiest way to get into real estate investing. So that's how. how I came upon the wholesaling aspect of flipping contracts and I said I'm going to do this. I got to tell you. So I'm listening to and I'm thinking to myself, this, the tactics that you employed here to get that first partner seem like a pretty damn good way to go for a new investor

to really attach himself to a mentor almost. So you find somebody who's been doing it for a while, you say, listen, you know, I'll hustle, I'll put the money out on the mailings, you know, I'll attract the leads, you know, can I, can I shoot them through to you? You can help me evaluate them and we could kind of run through the process. I mean, that's about as good as it gets. It sounds like to me. Yeah, and it definitely is. And I do this in several different markets. And what I came to realize is that for some people, it's, you know, it's a good thing as far as the other investors on the other end. But I've found where I'll go into other markets and I'll say, hey, I'm going to bring the leads and I want you to evaluate them and go out there and look at the

property. And guys would just be like, you know, I'm not going to pay you 50% for leads, you know, 50% of the assignment fee for leads. So, you know, if you can find that right person to work with, it's definitely going to be, you know, their golden ticket to more deals. Yeah. Interesting. And then that comes, that comes down or kind of back to that same thing that I always say that it's better to have, you know, 50% of a deal than 100% of no deal. of people just don't understand that. So when you go to them and say, I want to, you know, partner up with you and get 50 percent. Like, I think those people are stupid to not, you know, taking up on it. Because what are they missing out on, really? Exactly. All right. So, and you mentioned that you work in other markets. Does that mean that you are virtually wholesaling? Or does that mean, you're, I mean, how does that, what are you doing? Yeah, it means I'm, I guess you can say I'm virtually wholesaling, meaning that I'm doing the same thing that I did in Philadelphia with people in other markets. Okay. And how does that work for the those who don't understand virtual wholesaling. What does that even look like? Okay. What virtual wholesaling is, is basically I'm doing all of the marketing, like I told you guys about before,

and I have to find, I like to call them, you know, my boots on the ground, my guides who are going to go out there, tell me what the value of the property is, and they're going to go out there, get it under contract, visit the properties, and find buyers. So what I like to do is I like to find individuals like that in other markets, and then I'll work with them. And how do you work with them? Are you always doing a 50-50 with them? Or are you paying them a fee? Or how does that work? Yes, it's a 50-50 split of the assignment fee. So, you know, if the assignment fee was $5,000, they'll make $2,500. I'll make $2,500.

Okay. And how do you divvy up? I mean, you talked a little bit about that earlier. I know, and I'm just kind of rehashing it. But how do you divvy up roles exactly? I'm working with a partner a little bit right now. We're just kind of getting started with some whole sailing, I guess. And so I'm wondering, how do you define, I mean, who pays for what, who is in charge of mailing? How does that all look? Yeah, and the way that we like to do it is I'm sold, I'm in charge of mailing. I handle all of mailing. I have an assistant who takes the call, sets appointments for them, and their main role is to get the property under contract, visit the property, and find a buyer. So we take the pre-screening and they take every

everything after that. Okay. And so do you pay 100% of the marketing fees then, the direct mail or whatever you're doing? Yes. Okay. All right, cool. And I definitely want to touch on your direct mail stuff. So I guess why don't we, I guess, go into that.

I mean, we've talked about wholesaling before and flipping contracts on the podcast before, but I like to ask everyone kind of what your exact process is. So why don't we just go very basic from the beginning how you do things? Maybe like start with marketing. How does that exactly work? You said postcards earlier. Yeah. When I first got started, I used absentee postcards. And what I realized was that when I'll talk to a seller, they'll tell me, they'll say, hey, you know, I get a ton of these postcards, a ton of these yellow letters. And I said to myself, well, I don't want to be the, you know, second, third, fourth guy there. I want to be the first guy there. So that kind of led me to reaching out and trying to find other sources of leads. That's when I got into, you know, back property taxes. code violations, evictions, probates. My favorite thing to do now is I created, I have a guy who created a tool for me where I'll scrape the websites for people who owe property taxes and then I'll have, I'll take that list and then go and I'll scrape their addresses from public records. So that's my new source of leads right there is bad property taxes. And basically I cut my marketing costs down by like at least 50% because,

these are targeted leads and, you know, not just the shotgun approach where I'm going after absentee owners. Hey, so what markets are you in? Because I got a guy who's going to do that for me, and I'll make you number two again. Oh, yeah. I guess I'm not the problem. I want to be the first one. I'm not going to tell you.

That's cool. That's clever. So you're finding these folks. You're sending them out now. Are you guys internally doing the mailings? are you using a service to do that? At one point, I used to like yellow letters, but like I said, I wanted to cut costs down.

So, you know, I just send off postcards now. You know, once we pulled the list, I'll have my assistant. She'll uploaded a click to mail, and we're mailing off postcards twice a week. Okay, so you use click to mail then. Yes. Okay, got it, got it.

All right, so you're sending these guys twice a week. Are you, you know, when we talk about marketing, we've had a couple discussions about this. I know a lot of folks say you need to hit somebody like six, seven times before it makes sense. But when you're talking with back taxes, I'm guessing you're probably trying to do some timing and timing your mailings to when it's kind of getting close to the end for these owners. Is that right? Yeah, well, for that particular late source, yes.

We like to hit them in the beginning of the year and then in the middle of the year. you know that's when in the beginning of the year they'll get their tax bill in the middle of the year they will get you know they'll get another tax bill because the areas we work in they do it you know bi annually or they'll do it twice a year so yeah that's that's when we like to hit them now i do evictions as well i don't i usually just hit them one time because they will you know they'll go to court we'll get their information and then you know it turns out well when we just hit them one time when they first, you know, before they go to court, that works out well. So you're talking about, sorry.

Oh, I think we were going to ask the same question. The landlord? Yeah, is that what you mean you're hitting landlords for eviction stuff? Exactly, yes. That's a great idea. That is a good idea. Find tired landlords, folks who are tired of dealing with evictions. Because I know last month when I was dealing with my eviction, I mean, if I would have gotten a letter,

like I would have seriously considered it because you get really emotional. And that's how my grandmother, she actually that's why she decided to sell her property was because she was getting the tenant gave her a problem she couldn't collect money from them and she just was saying hey

get rid of it that's awesome I mean that was a yeah that I'm gonna totally totally do that so good tip I love tips like that that's awesome yeah that's great

that was awesome all right so do you want to take it Josh yeah okay okay yeah all right back to marketing All right. So did you completely then disband the other tactics that, you know, where you were number two? You know, did you say, listen, I'm not going to deal with this. I don't even want to compete with these guys. I'm going to look for market.

You know, I'm going to focus on marketing on things that there's definitely not a lot of competition. Or are you still marketing, but you've kind of tweaked it up a bit? Well, I deal with a lot of investors here in Richmond. And this is not my main market. I rarely do deals. So, you know, a couple of close friends here, they are looking for properties. And they're saying, Mike, why aren't you doing anything in Richmond? So just recently, this past week, I sent off an absentee miller. That's the first time I mailed to absentees in about, man, it's been probably a little over a year maybe. So, I mean, absentees are definitely great sources because it's people who don't own the property that, you know, they don't live in the property that they don't live in the property that they.

own. So I like absentees. I would not tell anybody not to, you know, not to mail them. Definitely mail them. They're good leads. Gotcha. So, so, you know, folks who are probably listening to the show, since this is primarily a wholesaling show, yeah, who knows, maybe, I think we're going to have quite a few newer investors. And I was hoping we could take just five, seven minutes or so to kind of go start to finish, right? Hey, I want to be, I want to be, I want to be a wholesaler, I'm going to do my first deal. What do I do? Step one, step two, step three, walk me through the process really quickly. All right. So beginning wholesalers, if they're saying, you know, this sounds interesting. This is something that I want to do.

What I recommend them do is to go out there and get in their car, drive around their neighborhoods, and look for properties where the grass is tall, it looks like it may be vacant. No one lives there. That's a good place to start. And what you want to do after this? that is you want to contact these people. And the way that you can contact them is you can go into the county website and it'll tell you the address of the property and the mailing address of where they send the tax information. Now, if that address where they send the tax information is different from the property address, that's usually a good sign, meaning that they don't live in that property. Okay. If the address is the same, that doesn't necessarily mean, you know, walk away from it.

you may still be able to get that property, you know, lock that property up. But what you want to do next is what I like to do is I like to look in yellow pages or I have a service that I use called Accurate, which is, you know, what private investigators use. I use that to find a phone number of the person that lives in that property or that is associated with that property, okay? You know, and after you do that, ask them if they're interested in selling their property. If they are interested in selling, what you're going to then do. Can I stop you really quick?

So you said it was called AccuRent? Yes, Accurant by Alexis Nexus. Oh, okay. Got it. Got it. Yeah, it's a service that lets you do, you know, find information, public and private information on individuals. Gotcha. Okay.

So we could hopefully link to that in the show notes at biggerpockets.com slash show 42. too. And so I want to know about contacting these folks. You get the phone number and you say, all right, I'm going to call this guy. Well, what exactly, you know, you said you just tell them that, you know, you find out if they're interested in selling the house. But is that it? I mean, I'm sure there's more to the picture than just that, right? Yeah. And most of the times when you find these type of properties, you're not going to be able to contact the individual at first. It's going to be hard. So what I do is I like to snoop around. I'll get the neighbor's phone number, the person across the street.

I'll get a relatives phone number. And the way that you can get the relatives information is because the service I use accurate, it gives you that information on these people. And I'll just simply call them up. I'll say, hey, can you help me? I'm looking for the person that owns this home. Most of the time, probably 80% of the time, I'll be able to get a phone number out of these individuals.

And then once I get the actual homeowner or the decision maker on the phone, then I will talk to them. I'll say, hey, I was driving around the neighborhood, came across this property, doesn't look like anybody lives there. What's your plans with the property? Are you planning on living there? Is it vacant? You're thinking about selling it. You know, after that, I get a fill for, I get a fill for what they're doing with it. And I'll say, hey, listen, I'm a cash buyer. I will be interested in purchasing your property if you're interested in selling. I like to come out there and take a look at the property. At that point, they may say, hey, yes, I'm interested in doing that. You can come and take a look at the property.

From there, I'll say, hey, well, what I want to do is I will get an estimate as to what we may be able to pay for the property so that we don't waste your time. And I'll call you back with an estimate and let you know what I will be interested in paying for the property so that I don't waste my time going out there if they're thinking they want $100,000 for the property and I'm around $20,000. So, you know, to get my estimate, what I'll do is I'll look at the recent cash sales in the area. I don't like to do the ARV minus repairs, you know, all of that. I like to go after what investors are willing to pay for properties. And I'll look at the sales from the last six months, absentee-owned properties, meaning that the person who bought the property doesn't live in it. Okay.

and then I will see what they paid for similar properties that are like the one that I'm, you know, interested in. And where do you find that information on the cash buyers sales? That's an MLS. Now, for people who don't have MLS, what I like to do is, and I actually use this site right now, it's Zillow. Zillow is, it works wonders for me in my local market and some other markets, it doesn't work at all. But in my local market, what I like to do is I'll look at the recent sales. So the properties that are in good shape, renovated properties, I'll look at them and then I'll look at properties that have sold recently in that area within the last six months that have sold for

less than what that renovated property sold for. So I'm going to assume that that property, okay, the ones that are selling for less are investors just purchasing those properties. It may not always be the case, but it's a good number to go by. And I'll give them a range that is between what I want to purchase the property for and what that other property sold for. Okay. And then that's when I will, I'll say, hey, I'll be able to pay between, you know, let's say 30 and 40,000 for this property. And depending on the condition, if you're interested, we can go ahead and schedule an appointment. If not, you know, we can go our separate ways and I put them on follow up. Got it. Okay. You know, I love this idea that you're talking about. I don't

think we've anybody talk about it quite like that. You say for beginners to start out with driving for dollars essentially. And the reason why I like that so much is because a lot of people recommend just go out and start direct mailing. Just go on and start mailing. But you can waste thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars on direct mail if you don't know how to close a deal or how to negotiate. And so, yeah, by doing it on a small scale and perfecting your skills, once you've got that down, then you can translate that and scale it upward. I love that. I love that. And you'll be able to practice talking to actual sellers on a phone as well. Yeah, before you're dropping thousands of dollars. And I think that's, that's somewhere where these guys are, new investors

in particular are fearful, right? It's, it's scary to get on the phone and talk to somebody the first time. Yeah, definitely. I still remember Danny Johnson on the podcast we did with him. He said the first time his phone rang, he took the phone and threw it across the room at his wife. I'm sure I did the same thing or something similar. So, cool. All right. So we got a deal. We got this We got this guy. We say 3540K. He says, yes, that could work. Now what?

All right. Now we'll go out to the property. We'll take a look at it. The only way that that will change is if the property is a complete shell, that number will change. Or if the property is in better shape than what we first imagine, we'll go up maybe a little bit. But after that, we'll tell the seller, we'll say, hey, we'll give them our $1,000. final offer. Our final offer, if they accept it, we'll then get the contract signed. Once the contract is signed, we now have equitable interest in the property so we can go out there and market it as

if it's our own. At that point, we will then go out there, market the property. And I'm telling you guys how to do it as if you're doing it in your own market. As I said earlier, I do a lot of virtual wholesale and so other people find the buyers. But you go out there, you market the property, on Craigslist, bandit signs, you can send postcards out to recent buyers in the area within the past six months. And once someone tells you that they're interested in the price that you mark it up as, so if you get under contract for $30,000 and you mark it up to $40,000, if somebody's interested in it at $40,000, then what you'll do is you'll say, okay, you're interested in this property or this property, give us a deposit for $1,000.

We'll put it in the escrow at the title company, okay? And then what we'll do is we'll sign a, and what you call an assignment contract. We'll sign this assignment contract. Okay, they'll purchase the property from me for $40,000 for my position in the contract that I had with the seller, okay, which the original contract is $30,000. In order to take my position, they'll pay me $10,000, which is the assignment fee. Okay. And do you get that? Yeah, do you get that at closing or do you get that right then?

When you'll sign it. it's possible to get to get it right then but I haven't done it that way you can get that at closing most people that most people get it at closing so what you're going to do is you're going to take those two contracts the original contract with the seller the assignment contract with the buyer you take that you take it to a title company or closing attorney and they will run title to make sure that the property is clear of any to make sure that the owner is the owner who they say they are and make sure that it was properly transferred in the past. After that, usually title takes about, depending on what area you're in,

I see it take up towards a two weeks, three weeks, it will take about between one and two weeks for them the run title. After that, they'll say it's clear, schedule the closing between the seller and the buyer, and then what'll happen is the seller will come in there, sign the paperwork, they'll get their check, buyer will come in, they will sign their paperwork, you know, they'll wire the funds in, they'll get the property, and then the title company, they'll call you up within, you know, maybe a day or a couple

hours and say your check is ready, and you get paid. Cool. All right. Well, and just a reminder for everyone out there, if that was confusing to people, if it's your first time hearing this whole concept, you know, definitely hit the rewind button and listen again because that was brilliant right there. I mean, that was wholesaling in a nutshell. That was great.

Well, so I've got a couple of questions. come up. I'm, you're talking with that initial seller. Are you telling them that you're not the end buyer? What I usually tell them is that either myself or a partner will purchase this property. And that doesn't, you know, make it seem as if you're actually trying to get over on them. You're not telling the truth. So, you know, I'll say myself or a partner. Gotcha. Okay. And have you ever had that turned sour? And everything, just say, you know, the seller get angry or just kind of lose a deal over something like that? No, I've never had an issue with that.

Okay, all right. Yeah, money is money to them, huh? Yeah. And what about a situation where, you know, you don't find the buyer in time? So, you know, I think that's the biggest fear from new wholesalers, other than obviously getting on the phone with people, which I said earlier was the biggest fear. But, you know, what if you can't find somebody? then what? How does that work?

Now one thing you want to make sure you do before you even consider this is make sure you have the right contract that has an out clause for you. Because without an out clause, then you could possibly be sued. So if I do not find a, if I have a 30-day contract, if I don't find a buyer within 15 days, I will then let the seller know, hey, we may need a discount or a continuance on this property. Okay. If I feel as though there's not a lot of buyers biting on it, then within, you know, at least five to ten days before it's actually supposed to close or that, you know,

before the contract ends, I'll send them a letter stating that, hey, you know, we can't purchase this property due to whatever clause you have in the contract due to my partner not approving or due to not being able to, you know, receive financing for this property or whatnot. Gotcha. And obviously, presumably you get your lawyer to draft up a good contract for you. Yes. Or get them to review a contract that you have.

Yeah, that would be cheaper, I suppose. There you go. Do you have a minimum wholesale fee that you will do a deal for? Well, if it's locally here, I want to at least make $5,000. And some other markets, some deals it'll be $2,000, some deals it'll be $10,000. So I would say no, I don't have a minimum, but I would say make sure you make at least $5,000 on a deal. There may be some deals where you'll come across where you just want to help out that seller, and you may get by making about $2,000,000, and I'll say, hey, do those.

Like you said earlier, it's better to make some money than no money. And what's the most you've ever made on a wholesale? The most I've made was $56,000. So you made $56,000 and there were still room in there for the buyer to rehab and make his profit too. Yes. Wow. Can you tell us about that deal? It was a virtual wholesale deal.

It was in a market. It was a commercial property. I had no idea what I was doing. It was actually more than that made. Another investor, a wholesaler, he put the deal together. He made the numbers work out. He found a buyer for it. It took about four months, but we made it work.

And where did you find the commercial property? It was actually, I sent it off to it. My eviction, the list that I pull for evictions, there's no telling if it's a, well, I don't usually know if it's a residential property or a commercial property. So he was processing an eviction and, you know, he called us. He said, okay, I have this, you know, 34 unit. I want to get rid of it. And I told my guy, he said, I know somebody that can help us out with it. Let's go ahead and see if we can make it happen.

That's nice. Really, really cool. I'm totally doing that now. All right. So that's cool. So how did you- Mike, you're going to have Brandon calling you. I know what I'm going to call on you as I.

Hey, Mike, I want to talk to these eviction guys. Now what. So how do you find, how did you find a guy to buy that property in that area? Like, obviously you had to find somebody a cash buyer that could close on a 34 unit? The way, like I told you, I didn't know anything about commercial properties. My partner on the ground, he got with someone in the area that knew commercial properties, and he worked it through them.

That's cool. And that's just another benefit of partnerships. Exactly. You're lacking somebody else. You want to have somebody else. And you had mentioned Craigslist earlier, what other, and the signs and things like that. Are there any other great tactics for finding your buyers, or are you really find the ball?

of your buyers. Well, you're not doing even that work, right? It's usually your partner. Yes, it's usually my partner. But actually, I'm getting ready to go to an auction here now in Richmond. And the reason why I'm going is because I want to see, you know, I want to meet guys, network and see, you know, because if you go to an auction, those are cash buyers. Those are people buying properties, interested in properties.

Talk to them, hand out your cards, and, you know, see what they're looking to buy. Yeah. Yeah, I think. Travis Deggett, I think, said that in his podcast, too, and I love that tip. Yeah, that's fantastic. What about your tips for building rapport with sellers? Because, you know, obviously you're hitting people up who are at a challenging point in their lives. What do you do besides being a nice guy?

Pretty much ask them, how can you help them? You know, try to solve their problem. Try to find out what's really, you know, getting to them. A friend of mine, what he said was, he told me, sellers have a headache. They have this headache. It's a throbbing headache. And you want to be their Advil.

You want to be their medicine. You want to fix their headache. So that's all you have to do, really, to build up that good rapport with them. That's cool. Hopefully we can get Bayer to sponsor the Bigger Pockets podcast. Bigger Pockets, the world of headache solvers. Yes. There you go.

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I'm like, because you made a really big mistake back then. By the way, I feel kind of bad because I felt like I was digging in on you earlier, but my goal was to not dig on you, but to, you know, make, make others understand what's happening. My biggest mistake was a property here in my local market. I got greedy. And I got the property at a super deep discount. I believe it was around 13,000, okay? And I had a buyer.

I took him. He's a good friend of mine. He, you know, he went over to the property with me. And he looked at it and he said, okay, I'll pay you. I think it was maybe $16,000 for the property. Or I know it was less than $5,000 because I went back. What I did, my mistake was I went back to the seller and I said, hey, can we, you know, take off maybe $1,000 or $2,000? Because I wanted to make it $5,000 even. So she said, no, I'm not, you know, I'm not coming down. down on the price. And what ended up happening was she ended up not answering any of my phone calls after that. And she went out there and she found somebody to list her property for $46,000 and it sold. Oh. Interesting. And that was my biggest mistake. After that, I never renegotiate price anymore unless it's, I definitely, unless it's necessary, I need to if I can't find a buyer, not just not saying, hey, I want to make this amount of money on a property. Now, did you have a contract with her prior to this?

A valid contract. I had a valid contract. And that's another mistake that I didn't do. I did not record the contract or I tried to record the contract, but I did not get it. I can't, I'm going blank right now. Notarized? Notarized. I didn't get it notarized.

So my county would not let me record the contract. Interesting. So you didn't have a valid. contract because it wasn't notarized. Well, it was valid. It just wasn't, you had no... It was a valid contract. It wasn't valid to the city. Yeah. So your recourse

was limited. Yeah. Cool. Well, you know, let's move on to one kind of last section before we begin to wind things down. And that is something you talk about a little bit on your own site is using virtual assistance in your business. So can you kind of explain to people what that is?

Okay. A virtual assistance or for short a VA is basically someone who works from home or they're in a different location from you and they do whatever you want them to do. The way that I use my virtual assistance in my business now is I use them to answer the phones for me. Well actually I use them to return phone calls for me. So they'll talk to sellers. They will build up that good rapport with them. they'll take their information down. They will send my leads off to my assistance on the ground, my boots on the ground. They will wait for them to get back to them with how much we can pay for the property. And then what they'll do is they'll call the sellers back, make that offer,

and then set appointments up. Yeah, so that's how I use my virtual assistance. Now, where do you find these guys? They are located in the Philippines. I find them on a website, at Odesk.com. Gotcha. I go out there, I hire them, bring them on, send them my training,

and bring them on board. And what do you pay a Filipino, Filipino or Filipino virtual assistant? Well, I started off paying them $3 an hour

and that's actually a good rate for someone in the Philippines. My assistant, they've been doing a great job for them. One of my assistants, she's done a great job. I pay her strictly on commission now.

Gotcha. And how's the English? I mean, I know most people go to the Philippines because, you know, English is a primary language there. But is there, you know, is there any confusion or is it straight, you know, you feel like you're talking to somebody in the Philippines? No, it's, their English is, it's great. Some people, they think about the big, large companies when you call and you get somebody on a phone, you can't understand them. Right, right. And I don't know where they hire their folks, but they, they need.

I need to hire one-O desk because their English is great. That's good. That's good. Do they work then? Because you're on, I think it's like, what, a 15-hour difference or something like that. So is there, is that what it is? Something like that. Okay, yeah.

Yes, 13-n hours. Okay, yeah. So how does that work for day-night? Do they work overnight then on their time? Yes, they work overnight. The way that my assistance work is they don't answer the phones for me anymore. I have a call service who answers the phones for me, and then they will, I have a, set up where it's a Google form, they'll type the information in, it'll go into an Excel

spreadsheet, my assistant will then get all of the information and forward it over to our partners on the ground. But the way that they work is they used to work from 8 a.m. to 12 p.m. and then from 5 p.m. to 9 p.m. because what we realize is that they can catch people in the morning before they go to work or they can catch them in the evening when they come home. So that's worked out great for us. Okay. And how do you make sure you're virtual assistant is actually working. I had a assistant that I hired that I'm, I mean, she said she was working 40 hours a week and she maybe did two hours a week. So I fired her and got a new guy, which he's doing better, but still probably not working 40 hours a week. Yeah, yeah.

How do you? But the way that I like to do that is I put a lot of trust in people. And one of my assistants, she's one of the best assistants that I have. She's worked with me in far as hiring other virtual assistance. And she said that the reason why she wanted to work with me and she like working with me is because I trusted, I trust her. And I gave her, I didn't track her time. I didn't track her time. I didn't go out there and put her on one of those tracking softwares. And I was open with her and I communicated. So the way that she put it was, because I love working for you. You know, you're not always on my back about things. You let me be flexible. And, you know, that's what they want. They want someone that's flexible, and I don't keep track of their time.

I can tell by how much work they're putting in and the output to say, okay, you know, if my assistant is working 30 hours a week and I'm paying her for 40, if she's doing a good job, I'm okay with that. Okay. So then last question I have about that. If somebody wants to go get a VA and they want to use O-desk, do they go on there and search for somebody's profile or do they go put a posting on like, how should somebody start that process today? The way that I like to do it is I like to do both. You can go out there, you can put up a job posting, but then also what I like to do is I like to search for assistants that have experience. Someone they told me, they said, make sure you find someone that has experience. And that was the it may seem simple, but that was the best advice that I received because once I went out there

and started looking for people with experience, then my whole outlook on higher and virtual assistance just change because when you break someone on your team that has experience with call centers, then you don't have to train them as much. Yeah. That's cool. That's very cool. All right, well, why don't we move on to the fire round? Fire round. It's time for the fire round. All right. All right. All right. Let's go. Yeah. All right. We'll try not to burn you here. All right. Well, I actually had six questions for the fire round, but you answered two of them already in the process of this. So we only have four questions for the fire round. Number one, these all come from the forums directly. These are questions that

people have asked recently. And these all came from the wholesaling forum. So number one, how do you deal with angry people when they call you? That's a good question. I don't actually talk to them anymore. The way that we used to deal with it is we used to just had them leave voicemail messages. And I'll just save them and listen to them at a later date because they were so funny. So we just don't call them back. Okay, well, that works. Gotcha. Speaking of that then real quick, I was going to ask this earlier and I forgot.

So when your virtual assistance call those people back, at what point do you personally or your partner actually get on the phone with them? Is that never? I never talk to sellers anymore. The only time that my partners will talk to sellers is when they go out and look at the property. And even then, my partners on the ground, they don't make the offers. my assistants, when they get back and give us the information, they make the offers. Okay, so your assistants are doing some kind of market research to see the price that they can offer. No, they're getting the price that they can offer from my partners on the ground.

Okay, I see. Okay, cool. All right, moving on. And so the person who actually physically signs the contract with the seller is who then? That will be my partner on the ground. That would be your partner. Is it who or whom? I don't know, who or whom? That's one of them. All right.

Anyway, next question, fire round. All right. And I think we kind of covered this, but how do you frame up wholesaling to the seller? I don't. You just tell them that we're purchasing the property. Yeah. Okay, yeah, with the partner. And I like that when you said that either me or my partner will do it.

I really like that a lot because it's not being dishonest at all. It makes them feel comfortable. I think it's cool. All right. Next one. Billboards, have you used them, should you use them? No, I have. not use them. Should you use them? It depends on your market. You could. You could use them and have

great success. I see a lot of We Buy Houses signs out there. Some of the big wholesaling companies, I guess you can say. I see them have signs up and if they continue to stay up, I guess they do work. Yeah. There's a billboard in my town that you can rent. And it said, I looked into it as $250 a month for me to rent this big billboard. Now granted, I have to pay for the thing, but I thought $2.50 a month for like, I don't know. I mean, my area is really cheap. My area is really cheap. That's really cheap. Brandon's just going to rent it out and put a picture of him with his cats on it. I thought about that. Honestly, I thought there's a big picture of me up there. It says like, hey, have a good day. All right, next one. Josh, you want to finish it up?

Oh, boy, that's funny. How important are business cards? business cards are very important. I realize that when I go out to meet to networking events and I don't have a business cart, I'm inconvenience in the other individual by saying, hey, can I get your number put into my phone? And they want to go out there and meet other individuals as well. So business cars are very important. I say you should always have some on you. That's a great suggestion.

I mean, I don't carry them with me because I'm usually not, like unless I'm going to a networking event, but you're right. it inconveniences people to have to sit there and program into a cell phone. Here's a tip. Here's a tip. Take like three or four cards and put them in your wallet and always have them in your wallet. I mean, that's just the way to do it. And that way, you know, as you start to get low, you go and you refill it. But personally, I think there's no excuse for not having a card at any point in time.

I mean, I could see going to an event and running out. But, yeah, I mean, you're definitely inconveniencing the other person. and well I think part of it's saying you know what I don't think you're important enough to give your information to right I mean it's like hey I'm better than maybe it's like I'm better than you and I'll reach out to you if I care to versus having it be kind of a mutual relationship exactly yeah wise all right so final session of our little podcast here is the famous for famous for famous yeah famous for All right, and we asked his question. We've lost the enthusiasm. We've completely lost the enthusiasm. All right, well, no more famous for. All right.

What is your favorite real estate book? Has to be rich dad, poor dad. Yeah, good choice. That was a tough, tough one, right? Yeah, I thought that might be it. All right, and your favorite non-real estate book, and I'm guessing it's four-hour work week. You know what?

That in the E-Mitt. Oh, man. Both good choice. Yeah, they're great. Hey, Josh, what page number are you on this week? I'm still on 27, Brandon. I believe I was on 27 on show 40 and perhaps on show 39 as well. Yeah, you might have been.

You know, we'll keep bugging you. Yeah, well, I've been bugging you to read Lean Startup now. I told you to put the four-hour work down for a little bit and read Lean Startup instead, but, you know. Yeah, we'll see what's good. We'll see what's good. All right, hobbies, hobbies. What kind of stuff do you do for fun outside of real estate? I love CrossFit.

I'm a big crossfitter. Yeah, I love working out. CrossFit is, I love it. Also, I like to, what you call a picker. I like to find stuff at local flea markets and selling on eBay. Really? Yeah. Yeah, that's one of my guilty pleasures is that pick and show.

I forget what it's called, but the, It seems like it could be fun, but maybe one day when I retire. Maybe one day. Yeah, it's a hobby. All right. Final question. What do you believe sets apart the investors who succeed from those who do not? Just a firm belief in themselves.

You just have to tell yourself that you can do it and just be your biggest fan and go out there and make things work. Cool. Yeah, that's great. Very, very good advice. All right, Mike, well, listen, I think we certainly covered a lot in a short bit of time here. Where can people find out about you? Well, if you guys would like to find out more about me and learn about the techniques that I use in wholesale, and you can visit my blog, which is wholesalinghouses 101.com.

Cool. And you do have some really good videos on there, so I do encourage people to check the videos out. Nice. And you're also on bigger pockets, of course. Yes, of course. I'm on bigger pockets as well. Right out. We do appreciate you.

You're always jumping into those wholesaling form threads. So we do appreciate it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Cool. Well, listen, this is show 42 of the Bigger Pockets podcast. You can find the show notes at biggerpockets.com slash show 42. And Mike, we definitely appreciate having you on the show.

And we'll look forward to seeing you around. All right. Thank you, guys. Yep. Thank you, Mike. All right, everybody. That was Mike Nelson. Really cool show.

Lots of great stuff for, for, uh, those of you who are interested in the topic of wholesaling. Like me? Yeah, and there's tips in there for everybody also. So if you're not a wholesaler, hopefully you got some value. Anyway, we definitely appreciate Mike's time, and hopefully you enjoyed it. Make sure you ask Mike any questions you've got for him on the show notes at biggerpockets.com. So, show 42.

Find him on his profile. We'll have a link to that on the show notes. and come connect with us on the usual networks, of course, the most usual one being Facebook. Bigger Pockets. You're fired. How many times have you been fired? Way too many times.

You hurt my feelings. Moving on. Now I'm going to cry. It won't be the first time. It won't be the last. Far from the last. Yeah, so connect with us on Bigger Pockets and come hang out, do some reading, you know, share your thoughts.

If you're just a browser, if you're just somebody who doesn't engage, you're missing out, jump in and hang out. But yeah, then can hang out on Facebook and everywhere else and come play with us there too. But I don't know. I think that's all I have to say for today. Brandon, do you have anything? I got nothing. Clearly you don't have anything to say.

I'm just going to go on. What? I'm sorry. Did you say so? I'm speechless. You're never at a loss for words. I am at a loss for words. Time to go.

Well, I'm Josh Dorkin. Signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online.

That's a wrap. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K, copywriting is by Calicokew content, and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.w.w.w.com.

The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk. So use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. Bigger Pocket's LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential, or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast.