BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 429: Pursuing Self-Sovereignty and Why Life is More Meaningful When It’s Hard with Ryan Michler

Episode Date: December 27, 2020

How many times has something happened in life where we blamed someone besides ourselves for the outcome? Didn’t get a promotion: it’s your bosses fault for being greedy! Ran late to work: it’s all the other drivers faults, not yours! Investment property having problems: it’s the tenant doing all the damage! Ryan Michler, founder of the Order of Man, sees this sort of victim mentality as a massive block to our full potential. He makes the well-put point that all we can do is control our effort, we can’t control others. This realization didn’t come easy, though. Ryan realized this after a tough fight with his partner, leading him to reevaluate not only their relationship, but the way he shifted blame on others, in an unhealthy way. Now Ryan interviews the men that he looks up to on his own podcast, all while running his organization/brotherhood of those part of the “Order of Man”. It’s not easy to stay humble and calm all the time, especially in the state of our current world, but Ryan does as good of a job as any to remind us all that our future is in our hands, and all we can do is try our best, consistently. In This Episode We Cover: Why we all need to practice humility, ownership, responsibility, and sovereignty  The importance of having a “servant’s mindset” even as a business owner How to constantly add value to whatever you do in life Why we should shift our focus to our efforts and not other’s efforts Why having children makes you want to be better and push harder The importance of owning and running a business, even at a young age Dropping the “I” and using the “We” when leading a team Why “the win” is simply “playing the game” And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Podcast BiggerPockets book store The Intention Journal Order Of Man Podcast Click here to check the full show notes: https://www.biggerpockets.com/show429 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 429. So sovereignty isn't about having 100% control over everything that could possibly work in your life. It's about focusing your efforts on the things that are important to you and then bringing in the right people to focus on the things that aren't as relevant or meaningful to you. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the wrong. right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on to everyone is

Brandon Turner, host of the Bigger Pockets podcast here live in the Seashed with Mr. David Green. David, welcome to the Seashed. Thank you very much. It's always more fun to do this here in person. We're totally not six feet away from each other. We're like four right now. Our lips are like three feet. That's the part that makes it uncomfortable. It's like that stare down right before. a UFC fight where they're at half inch away from kissing. Yes, it's weird. That always is weird. How did that become the UFC thing?

I don't know, but it's like a thing or like fighting in general is like get really close to the guy. Anyway, weird. So what's up, everyone? It's Brandon and David. We're doing this episode here in Hawaii because David's visiting me. And we just got down recording an amazing episode with Ryan Nicler. And he is a super cool guy who runs an organization called the Order of Man.

He speaks to a lot of men. But if you're not a man, it's okay. You're still welcome here in that. Everything today. Every single solitary thing applies to men and or women. But really, really good stuff today about just taking ownership of things in your life, what he called sovereignty and what that means in your life, business, how to attract people around you to work with you, to create like momentum around you. We talk about raising kids. We actually spend a fair amount of time talking about how to raise kids with the right mentality and the right ownership and the right, all that stuff. Yeah,

what do you think? Mindset, yeah. This is one of my favorite episodes. Ryan was a very good guess, very articulate, brought up some incredibly good points. I think when he talked about noble obstacles, that would really hit me hard. That's an amazing concept. And I don't think that there's one thing we talked about that can't be applied to real estate investing. That was another really cool piece. Yeah, 100%. So check it out. I think you're going to love it. So stay tuned for that. Before we get to that, though, let's get to today's quick tip. I like doing quick tip in person. It's different over Zoom, you know, when recording normally. Anyway, today's quick tip is very simple. If you have not yet picked up a copy of the Intention Journal from Bigger Pockets,

do it right now by the end of the year. Now you might be listening to the future. But if this comes out very end of the year, you had a couple days and start next year off right with a copy of the Intention Journal, biggerpockets.com slash journal. That was a commercial. That wasn't even much of a quick tip. Do you have a better quick tip? Think about what noble obstacles might be in your life and share them with someone

that cares about you, which is. They will know more about what those are after they listen to the show. They will find more about what that is here in a little bit. That's a good quick tip. Managing properties can feel like a full-on circus. You're juggling vendors, tracking payments, chasing approvals across multiple properties, and maybe a few HOAs, all while trying to keep tenants happy and owners confident. One delay can throw everything off, and suddenly your day is all clean up, no progress.

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That's Indeed.com slash rookie. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Here's why savvy real estate investors are obsessed with bonus depreciation. It lets you take that rental property or commercial building you own and depreciate most of the cost against your income. Legally, 100% IRS compliant. That's instant cash flow improvement. Cost segregation guys is the number one firm nationwide, specializing and identifying these faster depreciating assets in your property.

They've completed tens of thousands of studies across all 50 states from remote cabins to apartment complexes. So if you own investment property, this is a no brand. So visit cost segregation guys.com slash BP for your free proposal and find out how much you could save this tax season. All right. And with that, let's get to today's show with Ryan Mickler from Order of Man. You guys are going to love it. All right, Ryan, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast, man. It's been a long time coming. Glad to have you here. Yeah, man. I've been looking forward to this. I know we had a conversation, what, a month or so ago. Yeah, but I've been looking forward to the follow-up. So here we are. Yeah, I was on your show. It was amazing.

A coconut literally just fell off a tree next to me. That's crazy. That's what you get living in Hawaii. I was like, what is that noise? Oh, coconuts rolling down. Coconut's falling. Yeah, coconuts falling. Do you know more people are killed every year by coconuts falling than by shark attacks?

It's your story. I didn't know that. You know, actually here in Maine, we're worried about snow falling off the roof. Really? Yeah. No now. So, yeah, that icicles, you know, impaling you from above. Yeah, for sure.

You got to watch out for those things. There's an office episode with Dwight and Michael. Do you watch The Office, Ryan? I've watched it multiple times for sure. Dwight's making fun of Michael because he'll stand directly under an icicle looking straight up. I don't know. I don't remember that. I don't know if I can remember that either.

That's really funny. That's funny. I guess that gives me a reason to go back and watch it again. Probably the greatest TV show of all time. Yes. All right. So let's get into your story and we'll let people know about why you're here in terms of like why I'm super inspired by you. And I love listening to everything you got.

podcast is amazing. So let's go into why that is. Yeah. So who, who are you? Uh, what were you and who are you today? It's a broad question right there. That is very broad. What did you say, who was I and who am I today? Yeah, who were you? Who are you today? Give us a story. I was a loser, man. All right. I don't feel like a loser now, although I don't know. Maybe there's a lot of people who would be more unhappy to call me a loser now. Yeah, for sure. But no, I actually, I actually viewed myself as a loser. I was really lost. I struggled for a long time as a father, a new father and a new husband and like trying to figure this out. And I had my financial planning practice and that wasn't going well. And I just floundered.

And I actually, I thought that I was a loser. But looking back in it now, I think I was just immature. And I, and I just didn't have anybody to really show me the way to do things. And so I wandered and I struggled where I don't think that I had to. I wasn't obligate. I wasn't obligated. to. Yeah. But I felt like I chose that path, maybe subconsciously even, because I wasn't willing to look outwards for help. And so who am I now? You know, I'm definitely not a loser. I don't have everything figured out, but I get to talk with guys like yourselves and other amazing guests on my podcast. And I try to be open and coachable and learn. And when I have questions, I ask those questions. I apply the answers. And it's not any surprise to me that life just

continually, it continually gets better financially, physically, mentally, the business, all of it just gets better as I open myself up and are receptive to what other people have to share. Yeah, that's cool, man. So the order of man, how would you summarize what that, what that is? For those who have never heard of it, never listened to you before, never read your book, Sovereignty. That's what's called about sovereignty? Sovereity. Yeah, I want to make sure you know it. I appreciate. Yeah, my, the best way I can describe it is it's a, a, group and organization where we equip men with the tools and the conversations and the resources and networks and frameworks that they need to thrive as husbands and business owners,

community leaders, fathers, whatever facet of life they're showing up, I want to provide everything that I would have benefited from as a young father, a young husband, somebody trying to start my business, somebody trying to lead in every capacity of my life. And so we do that via the podcast, the book. we've got an exclusive brotherhood with almost 800 men involved in that now. We've got hundreds of thousands of people following along because it's my hope they're getting the resources and information they need to thrive. And that's what we want.

We want to serve those guys. So is this only for men then? I would say today, if there's a woman listening to this podcast right now, should they turn it off? Yeah. No, I don't think they should turn it off. You know, I do talk exclusively to men because order of man. And the way that I present the information that we share is.

is shared in a masculine way, in a masculine perspective. But we've got plenty of women who listen to what we do. And look, let's be honest, too. The principles that I share, although directed towards men, are pretty universal, right? Personal independence, you know, freedom, personal responsibility, accountability, doing the right thing, doing hard things, learning, being receptive to new information.

that isn't exclusive to men. It's available and it should be available for everybody. Generally, the way that women receive that and talk about that might be different generally than men, but the principles apply all the same. I'm just thinking a lot of people in our audience, maybe they wouldn't say the word loser. Maybe they would, but they're struggling. They're not where they want to be. They're not the person they want to meet.

Yeah. I'm wondering, what was that change? What was that inflection point in your life? Like, what change for you? to get you to where you were to where you are. That's a good question, but it's, but it's a hard question too, because the way you phrase it almost seems like,

and I know this is the question people are asking themselves, like how do I get to this point? Yeah. They think it's just some great leap, right? Like you turn the switch on and then tomorrow you're a different person. And it's taken me years and years and years. I mean, order a man, we're almost six years into this thing.

And the experience I want to share with you was 11 years. ago. So I've spent more than a decade after this experience I'll share with here in a minute changing my life. I mean, it's taken me over a decade to get me to where I am right now. It doesn't happen overnight. But my wife and I, at the time, we had a one-year-old son and we got into an argument. I don't remember what we argued about. I really don't. But I remember saying vividly, like it was yesterday, saying, I don't even want to be married to you anymore. And she looked me straight in the eye and she said, I don't either. And I left for a training. I was doing some financial training the next morning. And I left for that. I got about an hour north of where we

lived. And I said, what are you doing, man? Like your wife's leaving you. Your marriage is falling apart. You've got your one year old son. What are you doing? And so I turned around and I went back home. And she was packing when I got home. And I tried to convince her to stick around. I'm like, let's work through this. And she had had enough. She's like, no, I'm out of here. And she left. And she took my one year old son with her. And for months, there was just this, just this vitriol, just like brewing inside of me. Like, how could she do this? Why was she being disloyal? She took my one year old son away from me. Why didn't she appreciate all that I was doing to, to try to build my financial planning practice, to provide for the family? And it was like just

hostility. It was just nastiness. and it was festering inside of me. And I remember, this must have been maybe three or so months into our separation. I was driving down the road. I remember the road I was on. It was Riverside and Riverside Drive. So it was that intersection. I was sitting at a stoplight.

And I remember thinking to myself, man, this marriage is over. Like you messed it up. This marriage is over. And as much as I didn't want to wrestle with that thought, it was probably the most powerful moment and transformative moment in my life. Because I said to myself, okay, that marriage is over. So I'm going to be the best catch for the next woman to come into my life. I vividly remember having that thought.

And from that moment, that was the light switch for me. I stopped focusing on what she was doing and what she wasn't doing and how she was doing this. And if only she would do this, then everything would be better. because I thought it was over. So I'm like, okay, well, it's over. I wrote it off. I'm like, I'm just going to focus on myself. What do I need to do?

What do I need to focus on? How do I need to improve? What do I need to do in my business? And I started listening to CDs, success CDs. I started reading a bunch of books. I picked up some new friends. I actually brought in two financial advisors who were part of the company I belong to,

but I brought them in and started splitting business. with them so they would coach and mentor me how to grow my business. And she responded to that. She responded because she saw that I was somebody who's willing to take upon himself the responsibility of fixing myself. And that's what I've spent 10 years doing. You know, it's easy for me to look at other things and outside factors and what the economy is doing and the president and the, and the this and the COVID and everything else that I could blame my circumstances on. And some of it might have an element of truth. But I realize there's nothing I could do about my wife. I mean,

I can influence her positively and negatively, but I can't control her. I can't control politics. I can't control COVID. I can just control myself. And so I spent 10 years figuring out what I need to do to improve myself. And not surprisingly, life gets better and people respond better. And I develop stronger friendships and I build a more powerful network. And my income continues to go up. my net worth is building because I'm focused on this, not everything else that's going on in the world. Yeah, you're taking care of yourself. Exactly.

And it's not a selfish thing. It's in having to prove my own life because by doing that, it's like the whole, you know, analogy of the airplane, right? Put on your own mask before you put on your kids mask because you take your yourself first. A quick story. I've shared this before on the podcast, but I'll share it again just for context is when I got started, well, let's say a year ago, like back like January, I was like, I'm I'm going to do jihitsu.

We had Jaco Willink on the podcast, and he encouraged me like, you're going to go do it. When are you going to go? What day you're going to do it? He actually said, if you don't do it, I'm going to send someone to check on you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Really? Yeah. So I did it.

I went out there. It was awkward and uncomfortable. I went and did it a few times. I went for like a few months, like on and off. And I got a little bit into it. And then COVID came down and shut everything down. All the gym shut down. And I'm like, oh, okay, so no more jiu-jitsu.

And so I stopped for like four months. And then talking to a buddy of mine or five months, I talked to a buddy of mine who was also getting into it around the same time, just getting started. And I know you do Jiu-Jitsu as well. And so anyway, he's like, he said something like, yeah, you want to come over on Saturday. I'm rolling with my trainer, Jerry. And I'm like, wait, what? He's like, yeah, well, when all the gym shut down, I just called the gym and asked if they had any private trainers.

And he's been coming to my house every Saturday. And I was like, wait, well, like, that's a thing. Like, in another, and it was such a perfect picture of like, I let my environment control my, myself. I let my environment around me control my fitness and my lifestyle and my goals, which I had a goal to be good at this. And I let because I didn't stop to think the two seconds of how do I take ownership of this control? And so, anyway, now I hired his guy, Jerry. In fact, he'll be here in an hour or so. And me and me and David here are going to roll and do some training again today.

But yeah, it's an example of where like it's so easy not to take control or ownership or the word you use in your books like sovereignty of your life. And you sit in the back seat in this cab and somebody is driving you. around and they're probably drunk. And like, you're just in the back seat. Like, well, I don't understand why we're not getting there any faster. Like, when you get into that front seat, like just things start to change. Is that, I mean, am I summarizing like that idea of sovereignty well? How would you define sovereignty in the way that you use it in your book and other places? Yeah, it's liberty. It's, it's, it's people ask me a lot of the times what is what a success mean. And the answer I give every time is it's autonomy. Yeah.

That's the only answer that generally applies, you know, broadly to everybody. It's autonomy. me. It's being able to do what you want, when you want, why you want. And no other factor into consideration. That's also sovereignty. You know, the ability, look, if you're up to your eyeballs in debt, you're not sovereign. You can't go on a vacation. You can't take your family to Hawaii for vacation because you don't have the money to do it. So you don't have success. You don't have sovereignty. You've given that away to a financial institution that would love to see you in debt forever. And it's not just financially, but it's physically as well. well. If you're a hundred pounds overweight, you're not free. How many prescriptions are you taking?

How much do you have to pay for those subscriptions? What do you even know about what you're putting in your body? Yeah. You have restrictions that you've put upon yourself. So in all ways, what we need to do is to make ourselves completely free and independent of outside factors. Now, that's not to say that we shouldn't be able to accept help. We should, of course. And it's okay that I told you I had a couple of guys in the financial planning business who I hired and we split business together and they came on and they extended their hand and they taught me. I wasn't relinquishing sovereignty. In fact, I was developing it and learning how to take control of my own life. The problem comes when we come up with these excuses and these reasons. I call them

noble obstacles to keep us from being sovereign, but they're legitimate. So let's go back to Jiu-Jitsu, for example. I have a lot of guys who will reach out and say, well, you know, I'd really like to do do jiu-jitsu, but, you know, I want to spend time with my family. What you don't think I do? That's such a good example of a noble obstacle. I was thinking about that yesterday. Right. Because you should, if you're a father, you should be with your family. That's, that's actually right. That's true. That's good. But if you're using them as a pawn for your game of mediocrity, then it's a problem. So I go to jiu-jitsu twice in the evenings. In fact, when we get off this call, I'm going. And my wife does dinner and things with the kids. And when I come back, we spend a little time

before they go to bed. And then I do it twice in the morning before anybody even wakes up. I got to take care of myself. Yeah, because you look at it like I am taking care of my family through doing these other things as opposed to the other mindset, which is, well, if I have to exchange time with my kids for jiu-jitsu, then it's obviously bad. And it's just your subconscious tricking you into not doing the right thing. Well, if I'm 100 pounds overweight, and I'm not saying jiu-jitsu is the answer. I'm just saying being physically fit. If I'm 100 pounds overweight and I'm sitting on the couch and I'm watching all of the Netflix series and I'm eating, you know, a gallon of ice cream, I guess like, yeah, technically I'm here with my family. Right. But am I really? I remember seven years ago, I was 50 pounds more than I

am today. And I remember my two oldest boys. They came to me after work. I came home and they said, dad, dad, dad. And they were pulling on my pant leg. And they said, let's go jump on the trampoline. And I had looked them in the eye and say, I'm sorry, boys, I can't. Because I couldn't. I literally was exhausted. So I was home. Was I being a good father? Of course not. Because I wasn't present emotionally and mentally for them. And part of my physical fitness journey, getting up, going and working out, training, getting strong, getting lean, getting fit helps me show up more effectively as a father that I want to be and I'm proud of being. And it shows your kids a better example. That's another big thing. You're showing them because everyone looks up to their mom and

their dad. In fact, here's a really good point for the women that are listening. I'm a real estate broker. I run a real estate team. We have single moms that get into real estate and they typically crush it. One of the areas where they'll struggle is with mom guilt. They get this idea that if I do anything that isn't directly taking my kids somewhere, it's wrong. And what I'm often telling him is like, you're your kid's hero, especially if you're a single mom. You're all that they have to look up to. They are watching everything that you do. And when they see you taking sovereignty, they see you taking ownership. They see you not making excuses. They think in their head, oh, I come from that stock. That's who I am. I should be doing that too. Their identity is formed according to the

action that that person's taking. And it kind of frees them from that, that mom guilt, which is, I think, another example of a noble obstacle. I love that concept because the things that stop us in life aren't the things we can see coming. It's that that type of a thing that sounds like it's a noble thing. Yeah, because we have a very, a very powerful ability to BS our yourselves. Yes. So if it sounded, for example, if you went on a five-day drinking binge, like nobody in their right mind is going to say, oh, you know, that was okay. That was for me. I'm taking care of myself. Like, nobody's going to say that. Right. If on the other hand, you know, you said, hey, I'm going to go on this, this five-day vacation with my family,

or to take it another spin is I'm going to go to this leadership. or this sales training and I'm going to be gone for three days. I mean, that's, there's some, there's some legitimacy. Look, I remember, uh, I just got into hunting about three years ago. And I remember my first hunt and I was walking in the desert of Arizona. And I'm walking around trying to find a deer. I don't know what I'm doing. Like it was just, it was, it was crazy. And, uh, and I remember thinking to myself, what the hell are you doing? Like your family's at home. you're out here by yourself. You spend a bunch of money to go out here.

You're trying to hunt. Like you can provide food by just going to the grocery store. Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this? Because it makes me better. It makes me better to be in a hard situation. It makes me better to develop a skill set. It makes me better to be alone with my own thoughts occasionally and within reason.

That all makes me better. And then when I come back, I'm that much more engaged several years ago. I had Joe DeSenna, the founder of Spartan races on the podcast. And he said to me, he's like, hey, you should do the Spartanoggi. And I said, yeah, sure, that sounds good. I'll do it. I'd have done a couple of Spartan races.

And he's like, okay, great. Get signed up here. Send me an email. We'll get you going. And then I jumped online after. And I looked at what it was. And it was a 60-hour endurance event. And I'm like, what in the world?

Like, I thought it was a race, like a 20-mile race. No, it was a 60-hour endurance event. So, but I already said yes, and I try to be a man in my words. So I'm like, all right, well, this will be good for me. So I went and did it. And I'm up there for whatever it is, what it, I think it equates to three and a half days or so. I'm up there. We get no sleep.

I'm freezing. It's raining on us. We're getting pummel. It's just miserable. Miserable. and my children and my wife with my wife's help right before we started my i get this text on my phone for my wife and it's a it's a picture of my kids i'm going to get a little choked up as i talk about this because it's that vivid for me still three four years later it's a picture of my kids

my wife had gone to the grocery store and got a bunch of that like big poster board and they and they wrote on there with like sparkly letters like go dad 60 hours we know you can do it as as i'm sitting there in the hills of vermont just miserable tired cold wet thinking to myself what the hell are you doing that image pops in my head of my kids excited and when i wanted to throw in the towel i remember thinking to myself what's it going to be like when you get to call him and you said you did it yeah like you actually completed it and you know what i was gone for three and a half days, but I served my kids immensely through me being gone and them seeing their dad, go take care of himself, put himself in a miserable situation, improve and get better.

And now they're better even in my absence because I can come back stronger. That's really good. Yeah, that's, that's really good. I did, I did like a, whatever, a half iron man a couple years ago, it was two years ago. And, uh, you and a half ago. And Rosie, my daughter, who's four now, so she should have been, what, two and a half? She still remembers it and talks about it regularly. Of course she does. Yeah, and she's like, remember when you were at that, you know, and she remember she was there with a poster as well. And, you know, that's a big difference. If we're using things like, you know, I'm not going to go run a marathon or an Iron Man or a Spartan race or whatever

or go to this conference and I'm going to get better because I'm trying to be a more family man. It reminds me if we did an interview recently with Greg McEwen, McKeown, McKeown. Yeah, that's essentialism. Yeah, right? And he was. telling us about how like the tradeoffs we make like go with the lower I don't remember the words you use but like the lower dollar valued trade off in other words like yes there are tradeoffs but trade off like the TikTok and the Instagram and the Facebook before you trade off the the important things like the Spartan race or the the conference that's going to make you a better person but we tend to we tend to we like our little you know in bed scrolling TikTok for two hours

you know like that's we like that stuff and so it's easy to not cancel that. We cancel things that we actually should do. And so it leads me to this point I want to make here is I see it new and I say a lot of successful people is they run toward hard. And early on, I did not do that. If things were hard, I ran away from hard. But you're like, you mentioned like, why am I hunting? Because it makes me better. And I know I've seen David do the same thing. I mean, like just, I mean, yeah, when you start running toward hard, your kids pick up on it, your your spouse picks up on it or future spouse maybe picks up on it because they, there's something just so admirable in that. I mean, And I still remember anytime my dad did that as a kid, like did something that was just challenging

or hard. Like those are the moments I remember. So do you think that your dad's decisions to do those things made you more confident because you thought, well, if my dad does it when I grew up, I'm going to do it too. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, 100%. So on that note, then Ryan, like, what do you do right now? I mean, how old your kids and what do you have for kids?

Yeah, a bunch of boys, right? I have four kids, three boys and a girl. Yeah, I have a girl too. So I've got 12 year old boy, 10 year old boy, six. six-year-old girl, four-year-old boy. All right. So what do you do to instill this sovereignty in them, this idea of taking, you know, control of their life and ownership?

How do you, what are some of the techniques or tactics that you use? Well, so here's one example just last night. So we're here in Maine. Yesterday was in the high teens, I think. And my son, he's been on this, he's been on this, this fitness kick right now. So I'm like, well, let's go outside and work out. And he's like, it's cold out there. I'm like, yeah.

It's really cold, actually. So let's go outside and work out. And he's like, okay. So we go out into the gym and it's not heated. The gym is in our garage. It's not heated. There's holes everywhere. It's super cold.

It's just as cold is outside. In fact, it might be more cold. So we're in the garage. And he's like, dad, it's super cold in here. I'm like, yeah, but this is why it's meaningful. Because how many people would not do this at all or they would do it in a comfortable environment? and yeah, maybe they're getting strong, but we're getting strong physically and mentally.

And so we talked about how much more it counts if it's harder. Now, I'm not saying you need to be, it needs to be dangerous or stupid, but it's, it's worth more because it's harder. It's worth less if it's easier. So that's one thing. The other thing, I really try to involve my kids in the business. So my oldest son, he actually manages our entire store. So he ships orders, he places orders. Here's a great example of sovereignty.

So the other day, we got a return. And I had been paying him. I pay him a little differently now, but I had been paying him a dollar per package that he ships out. And we got this return because it was the wrong size or wrong shirt or whatever it was. And I said, okay, I'm going to take that dollar out of your paycheck. And he's like, wait, what? You're paying me a dollar to ship it out.

I'm like, yeah, I'm paying you. you a dollar to ship out the right stuff. Yep. I'm not paying you a dollar to ship out the wrong stuff. So you owe me a dollar. And these are little examples that, you know, some people might hear that and think that's harsh. But that's reality. Like, I'm not paying you to do crappy work. I'm paying you to do the right work. And so these are the lessons through running the store, through exercising. That's actually part of the reason we came up here to Maine is to get away from everything and like the ease and the people that we'd been around is like let's go experience and let's be on our own let's go do something new it's going to be harder it's going to be more

miserable in a lot of ways but we're going to learn so much and it's just been a powerful powerful experience for us yeah that's really good yeah that like letting kids learn and get involved and and teach them along the way i think it's just so powerful uh definitely yeah anybody listening to you know we do a lot of we talk a lot about real estate here on the show right And so like there are so many ways that people can let their kids do little things. I mean, even from like three years old, like give them a paintbrush. Let them do some painting. Like let them show up there.

When you're like, I got to go check out that. I mean, if you're managing your own property, I got to go deal with that, you know, 10 at 8 o'clock at night and go change that toilet. Hopefully people aren't doing that anymore. But if they are, like, want to have the kid come with and help hold the tools. Like, they're going to be terrible at it. Definitely. Like those are the moments that just build that character in those kids.

I remember when I was little, my stepfather had a cabinet shop. And so he had a cabinet shop outside of our home, but then he had a lot of his cabinet stuff and tools and things like that in the garage. And one of the fondest memories. And frankly, I don't have a lot of him. He wasn't a great stepfather. There was some moments, some glimpses. But I don't have a lot of fond memories. But honestly, one of the fondest memories I have is him teaching me how to use a push broom and push up all the sawdust on the floor. And then he would give me a couple of bucks or whatever because you put me to work. And I felt even as a young boy,

I must have been seven, eight years old, that I was valuable, that I was contributing and that I was adding and enhancing to the environment and I was getting paid. And I felt good about that at seven years old. You know, these are lessons that you can learn at a very young age that I think will carry on for the rest of your life.

I think that there's a knee jerk response from some people when it comes to sovereignty as they see it as a means of controlling others. but what you're really describing is the means of taking control of yourself. That's what sovereignty would be. What are your thoughts on homeownership versus renting? Do you view homeownership as you've taken control of your living situation and that asset? That's a good question.

You know, I hate to just throw out it really depends on your circumstance. But if your goal, for example, is to be location independent and you're only going to be in a certain environment for a certain period of time and experience. are more valuable to you and you like to hop and you like to travel, I would maybe consider, and I'm trying not to look at it just from the financial standpoint, but I would maybe consider renting as a viable option to do that. If however, you felt like you wanted to own the real estate, you were going to be there for a period of time or it had some sort of important value to you and ownership, home ownership, then I would say that that's the route to go. I mean,

we can punch the numbers and figure that out. That's easy, right? Like, You can figure that out pretty easily. And I think financially, over the long period, home ownership is probably the way to go. But I think there's a lot of factors that would skew that and change the way that you might look at that. So it really, for me, it just depends on your circumstance and situation. I'm a homeowner. We have three. I was telling Brandon, when we talked about a month ago, we own three homes.

The first one I bought and my wife did all of the designing and planning while I was in Iraq. and then we moved there. It was a great starter home. And then we rented it out when we left. And then we bought another home. And then we moved here and bought this home here in Maine. We rented that one out. So it's kind of happened organically for us.

But I think it really just depends on your circumstance and situation. It's what you want. It's, again, it's autonomy. If renting is going to allow you the autonomy, the control of what you want to do, then do that. Oh, that's really good. And if it's not, then don't. Yeah, I think I was assuming looking at that question from a financial perspective, but there are more things.

So you're taking sovereignty over your time and your freedom when you're renting versus your finances when you're owning. Well, and here's another great example. So, Brandon, you were talking about a second ago with potentially having, I think you were referring or alluding to having a property manager, right? Is that what you were leading to? Yeah, yeah. Hopefully they're not still doing the toilet changing because they have a property manager.

Right. So you could say, well, sovereignty. If you have somebody else do it, well, that's not sovereignty. You don't have control over it. Well, maybe, but you also have 20 hours in the month that is now able to be redirected to something more significant and meaningful towards you or for you. Excuse me. So sovereignty isn't about having 100% control over everything that could possibly work in your life. It's about focusing your efforts on the things that are important to you and then bringing in the right people to focus on the things that aren't as relevant or meaningful to you or could potentially free you up. for that autonomy to focus on the things that you do want to focus on,

which is securing more property or looking for new listings or whatever. Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, and I'm not like, you know, I'm the, I'm the real estate guy on the show, right? I mean, I'm always talking about real estate. Everyone knows me as a real estate person, but I'm not actually that big of an advocate of owning. I own because to me, like happiness is being able to punch a hole in the wall.

And then that's my whole, nobody can tell me not to do that, right? I go crazy. Yeah, autonomy. me. I don't like that I don't like landlords tell me what I can and can I do. But for other people, yeah, like who if that's not as big of deal as you, if you're not, if you're not going to punch a hole in the wall or if you don't care about remodeling your property, you're painting it. You're just good with what you have. Yeah, I mean, who cares? Go, like, don't buy your house. Go, go rent, do what you want. It doesn't mean you shouldn't invest. Like, you still invest. And I like

invest in real estate. But yeah, it's, it's really knowing yourself and not just falling victim to the whole like, well, that guru online said to not buy a house. Or that one said to buy a house like it's it's irrelevant look at your own picture and figure it out it's really uh it's anything could be a form of of slavery you know like for example like working out like i don't think anybody would would say that that working out and taking care of your body is a bad thing but i know people who are addicted to working out because they're so worried about their body and they're in their image and they're in the way they're perceived that they've actually become a slave to it so getting healthy for them isn't an action of sovereignty it's an action of of of

submission to that addiction or to that desire to feel approved. And so anything can be taken in an unhealthy way. It's just the motive and the way that you're using it and approaching it in your life. Yeah. Yeah, that's very true. I know a lot of those people that are in incredible shape and that's their identity and that's how they find people to date and that's how their confidence comes from and they live in their mom's basement and they have, they're in debt, but they have an incredible body. But they can't break free of it because no one sees the money in your bank account. Nobody sees those. types of things, they see your biceps and that's what they focus on. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a beautiful perspective that you're presenting, Ryan, of looking at the world, mostly because it's so empowering.

It's just acknowledging you can do whatever you want. You can have whatever you want if you're taking this perspective of how do you take control over those things. And I'd say, Brandon, in the last two years, I've seen you take a quantum leap in progress with this type of looking at stuff. So much to the fact that you've recognized where you're weak so much that you're, you're, you'll literally say, okay, this is something I want. I know I'm not going to do it. So I'm going to proactively put all of this form of accountability around me without anyone telling you that you have to do it.

I know how crazy that is to go against your own nature and say, I'm going to make my own life harder on purpose so that I will accomplish this thing. But, I mean, it's showing up in every area of your life right now. So I know it works just from looking at your life. Well, thank you. David, you said something interesting. You said it's a beautiful way to look at life. It is.

It's also very scary. Hmm. Yeah. Think about this for a second. If, if you're listening to this podcast and you're not satisfied with some facet of your life, it is significantly easier to say that it's somebody else's fault. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Right. It's your wife's fault. It's your boss's fall. It's your boss's fall. It's the economy. It's COVID. It's this. It's that. It is significantly easier to say that it's somebody else's fault. The problem with doing that is that we are voluntarily relinquishing sovereignty when we do it. Because look, David, if my, the position I am in my life is your fault. Let's just say I'm blaming it on you for whatever reason. I've just handcuffed myself because I

actually need just now, I just need to wait for you to change. But like if you do something different, then that's going to impact my life better. And there's nothing I can do about the way you show up. So I've just given you authority over my life. Now I'm just sitting around waiting and people do this. They're waiting for their ship to come in. Like it's some passive thing. Oh, well, you know, that guy got lucky. And then, you know, when I get lucky too, well, then everything will be good.

Yeah. No, it's your responsibility. It's risky because who wants to look themselves in the mirror and say, you're inadequate, you're not enough. You're not good at this. like I know I I I lead you guys know too I'm sure because the business you're in I know people who will not pull up their bank account statements yeah like they know how bad it is yeah they know but they won't pull up the statement right because they don't want to make it real I also know people who won't get on a scale mm-hmm yeah they know they're obese they know but they won't get on the scale because they if they do they have to come face to face what the reality of their situation is and they don't want to get it. It's scary, but it's also the foundation for growth. Four hours ago I posted on my Instagram, growth is acknowledgement. Your current state is not good enough.

Therefore, a prerequisite to growth is humility. Yes. And I just, it was a way, something clicked with me yesterday as I was thinking and I realized that's why growth is so hard, because you have to say who I am right now is not enough. And if you have an ego, if your pride gets involved, if you're insecure, it's very difficult to be able to admit, I'm not enough. In fact, most people spend their life running away from anything that gives them that feeling of I'm not enough. But what makes that beautiful life possible instead of just saying, oh, that's hard, is having humility. It's being able to say, yeah, the scale's going to be ugly. I'm not going to feel good when I get on it. That's okay. If you're not humble,

it's almost like there's a barrier that even you can't get into that realm. You can't get into the empowered realm. And I think what you were describing, Ryan, when you were talking about your marriage was that was a gift because that humbled you. It brought you took the perspective of what am I doing, right? It's so easy to say, what is she doing? Does she not realize what she's got? Of course. Right. But that humility opened your eyes and now you've got this amazing movement. You've got this confident. You've got all these blessings that came from the life you have and that's where it started. I love it. Yeah, 100%. Absolutely. Hey, Ryan, if you could pick like, what's one thing that you would pick if you could teach it in schools.

that's not currently taught in school. Like what's a topic or a thing that you'd be like, if I was the president of the U.S. right now and I could implement anything in the schools, would you want them to teach? Man, that's a really interesting question. It's funny. I actually have that written down here

for every episode of the podcast for the last like three years. I don't think I've ever actually asked it. But it's always here. It's like, this would be a really good question to ask somebody someday. Yeah. But I never ask it. I think I would teach people to start a business.

Why? I love that. I just think. I think there's so many lessons about life that come from running a business. You have to work hard. You have to invest. You have to sacrifice. You have to have faith in yourself.

You have to believe in yourself. You have to add value to people's lives. You have to get them to see you as being valuable. So you have to sell yourself and promote yourself. You have to manage inventory and money. and I just think there's so many lessons from running a business. And also, I mean, to go back to, I would say is the theme of this conversation, sovereignty. Look, I'm not going to knock somebody who goes into an office and is an employee of an organization. If that fits your needs and your

desires and you that want to do that, all the power to you. But also you're relinquishing a little bit of control, right? Because now you're at the mercy of other things that are beyond your control. So having a business, even if it's a side business, even if it's rental properties, having a little bit of additional income or having a merchandise store, teaching people how to shoot photos or graphic design. If you're just really, like to go to the employee thing real quick to take back some of that sovereignty is by being really, really good at what you do because now you have the control to go somewhere else. You're a web developer. You work for this company. Great. Go be the best web developer there is there because then you have the power.

to say, no, I'm going to go to that company. They'll either, they'll treat me better. If something goes wrong, if 90% of all web developers in the world go out of business, guess what? If you're in the top 10% you still have a job, you have that sovereignty. So I think just, yeah, it's a good point. It's so good. They can't ignore you applies. Yeah, there's that. That's a Cal Newport, right? So good yeah. And then there's also a great book by, I believe it's by Seth Godin called Lynchpin, making yourself indispensable. I have it, but I haven't read it yet. I hear it's really good. Yeah, I read it years and years ago, but that's also a really good book. And that hits on the concept that you're talking about. So to go back to what you were saying, I think teaching

children how to start businesses would be something I would want them to learn. I love that. Yeah. When you take the path of I'm going to be the best there is, you're also choosing the hard road. Yeah. It's just the equivalent of I'm going to work out really hard every day, but that's what your workout is. And it's always harder to do that. And the other thing I thought you're saying, right, about owning a business is you don't really have anyone else you could blame. It's much harder. Yeah. You start a business and it doesn't go well. Yeah. You'd start a business. And it doesn't go well. It's staring at you. I mean, you might try to blame the economy or the president or whatever it was.

But when you're an employee, it's just so tempting. There's a million people that you. Oh, a stupid boss. Yeah, he just didn't get it. Oh, that marketing department. They didn't figure it out. And you know what? The market doesn't care about your excuses either.

That's true. You can say, I have a great product, but people just don't understand it. Well, that's not their fault. That's because you didn't communicate it well. You need to help them understand it or have a better product. Like, those are the only two things. Yeah. Yeah, it's a great, great point.

I love what you're. Have you guys heard of those, the entrepreneur? I know you have because we were at a Go Abundance event. They talked about it, but those entrepreneurial like fairs for kids where they'll do like in a community, somebody will just start it in a community. It's not like a school sponsor thing. It's like, hey, we're going to have a entrepreneurship fair and you'll get dozens, if not 100 kids to come and they all get their little white tents in a park.

And for, well, you know, that's the end result. For three, four months, they build a business ahead of time, a product or a service. And then at this fair, where everyone has a booth, they just sell it. And the whole community comes and buys all the kids products and stuff. It's such a, I saw a video in time from that one of we were at a Go abundance event in Austin showing that they do this. And I'm like, I cannot wait till my kids are old. Now like, really is just getting that age now where she can do that. It's like such a great way to teach that entrepreneurship or that business growth and the kids.

So yeah, neat stuff. Yeah, that's powerful. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. My nephew, Isaac goes to one of those schools. Really? Acton Academy.

Oh, that. Yeah. Yeah, I think acting and they're the ones that sponsored. They started in Austin. That's where we were at. And there, yeah, you see these little kids that just have stupid confidence. I'm like jealous of his son, Isaac, at eight years old. Like I could never go talk to a stranger, a grown-up at eight years old, man.

I was like hiding in the back, didn't want to, like, I wasn't even thinking you're allowed to talk to a girl. So just walk right up to someone, start asking questions about their life. Yeah, it does. It does wonders. And he has that mindset of, well, what he always asks is, is it can I do it? It's, how do I want to, right? Like, I can see the effort I'd have to put into that thing. Is it worth it for me?

Whereas I was always handicapped by I'm not good enough to do that, right? I just went through life thinking I can't. I can't. If there was one thing that I thought maybe I could do it, I was a slave and that was the only road that I could walk. Yeah, that's, you know, it's funny you talk about that. I think the language we tell ourselves and the language you use is very important. I used to think, for example, since we're on the podcast, I would look at like Joe Rogan, for example, is I think we could agree. like he's at the top of the game, right?

And so I would look at what he's doing and I would say, well, I want to have what he has, but I can't or this is what's holding me back. And now I realize I actually don't want that. Because I'm not really willing to put forth that effort at this stage of my life. Like I'm not. I'm not willing to do that because I have other priorities, namely my family.

Yep. You know, and so there's lots of decisions I've made in my business where I've legitimately throttled the business, but it was intentional. And I didn't make any qualms about it. I didn't say, well, you know, I'd like to, but, bo, bo, bo, bo, no, I said, no, I don't want to do that right now. And that was an intentional decision because I have other priorities that are on my plate that are important to me.

And in 15 years, when the kids are out of the house, that might change. And I might have new priorities. And I can adjust then when that time comes. That's such a good point. Yeah, there's been a number of times where I've, like, wanted to pursue something. Like, for example, I think it would be fun to do a TV show. You know, like someday it would be cool to do a TV show. And real estate has a lot of channels and HGTV and all that.

And I'm like, like, oh, it'd be cool to have a TV show. And then I talked to my friends who have a TV show. We have a number of them on the podcast, like guys at Ken Korsini, who was on HGTV's Flip or Flop Atlanta. And like, he's like, yeah, I mean, it was like eight months of filming. You know, you're pretty much eight, nine, ten hours a day, six days a week, maybe seven days a week. It's, you know, it's a lot of work. And I'm like, I don't, I don't want that.

So I think it's so important rather than just asking yourself, what goals do you want to accomplish, the better question is, what pain am I willing to put up with? Like, do I, like, do I really want a six-pack? I mean, use that analogy all the time, a six-pack. Do I really, yes, I want a six-pack. At some point in my life would be cool to have one. Am I willing to put up with the pain needed to get one up until this point? I have proven that I am not, like, because I haven't done it yet, right? And until I make the decision that I'm okay with the pain needed to get the result, then I, that's the, I guess that's the better question. Am I willing to put up with the pain, the work necessary? And a lot of times the answer is no. So the desire is there, but that's very different. So you want to build a, you know, you want to be a billion. I don't want to be a billionaire. I don't want to know. It sounds horrible because the pain to get to become a billionaire is a lot. But I was willing to put up with a pain to become a millionaire. Yeah, for sure. I'll do that a day long. So again, just when people are thinking about goal setting, yeah, maybe it's, you got to think about the pain more than just the result. Yeah. Yeah. Very similar to you. I've always framed it as what's the cost. Yeah. You know, but I think it's the same, I think it's the same concept. Like there's a cost to everything. Yeah. Yeah.

Everything has a cost. And so you have to decide is the six-pack, the cost of doing this. And also, what are you going to have to give up? Yep. Like, you're going to have, you're going to have to give up something about your current life in order to have this desire. But you do have, I will say this, you do have to be careful because it's easy to do, my friend calls it mental gymnastics.

So it's very easy to tell yourself like, no, I don't want to, I don't want to do it. I don't want to pay that cost. And it might just be you're saying that. because you know how hard it will be and you're scared. So you do have to be careful of playing the mental gymnastics game where you're lying to yourself and you're trying to BS yourself. You really have to know who you are and why you're saying what you're saying. And is that really the case?

Or are you making it up to save yourself and keep yourself protected? Yeah. Yeah. We find oftentimes the thing that stops people is their ego, right? I don't want to look bad in front of other people. or like you mentioned, getting out of bed a little bit earlier, I can easily spend 45 minutes when I first wake up, not wanting to just jump out of bed, easing into the day.

And I'm on Instagram or Facebook looking at stuff that does zero for me before I even know I did it. That's a thing that shouldn't be hard to give up. So I think when you identify what you want and then you ask yourself, what am I willing to give up to get it? If it's given up sweets, if it's given up that, heck yeah, every time you should give it up. If it's, I'm not going to be there for my kids.

I'm going to be traveling three quarters of the year. That's a different story. But you should still always use that matrix when you're looking at what you want. And the last piece that I love about what you said is you basically described the difference. And Ryan, you've done this too, between I want it versus I'd like it. I'd like a six pack. If the six pack fairy touched me on the head and say, you want a six pack? You'd take it, right?

There's a six pack fairy? How have I never known this? I've been like doing sit-ups for years. Yeah, that's funny. All right. So other than the six-pack ferry, building the business thing. I want to circle back there, Ryan, before we get out of here. What have you learned there for that, like in building?

There's a lot of, you said the words, there's a lot of lessons to be learned in building a business. So now you've, let's go order of man. You've been building this podcast, this brand. You've got like this group that comes and hangs out with you. I see your Instagram pictures. You guys are doing cool stuff in your barn. It's awesome. Yeah.

I'm like, what have you learned in this whole process of building this thing? There's two lessons that really stick out to me. this year. I mean, there's an infinite number of lessons you can talk, but there's two this year. Okay. Number one is you got to find the right people to be in the right positions in your organization. And some of those people are going to be employees. Some of them, frankly, are going to be volunteers. Others are going to be contracted. But you've got to find the right people. And so as I'm switching from the whole idea of like self-employed to business owner, I'm trying to make that switch for myself, from I have to be involved in everything to my job now is to begin to identify

who could replace that that I'm doing now. The first one for me was, and this was several years ago, but hiring an editor for the podcast, I didn't want to do that. I wasn't good at that. It was a waste of my time and energy. And so I found somebody who really actually enjoyed doing that. We brought on somebody else this year to help me with podcast outreach. So, she helps me get introduced to other potential guests. She helps me get on other podcasts. Those were things that I did enjoy and I like, but she's so well connected and she knows how to network and she enjoys finding these little angles. And she's got me podcast interviews to be on other shows and my show better than I ever could over the past five years. Yep. So, so that's, that's one of my biggest

lessons this year. The other one is a little bit harder to quantify. But what I found is that people want to belong to something. Yeah, so much, yeah. They want to belong to something. And especially in the wake of what's happened in 2020, people aren't doing sports. They aren't going out with each other. They aren't involved in church organizations

as much as they were, charitable organizations. So their sense of belonging has been greatly diminished this year. And if you can create as a business owner, an environment that feels like you're part of the team, people want to be part of it. Brandon, you alluded to it. You said you had guys over and helping you with your barn. Let me let you guys in on a little insight on that. So I've got this barn. It's roughly 3,000 square feet. It was built over 100 years ago. And it needs some work. So we were going to do an event,

but we couldn't because insurance restrictions. We couldn't get the insurance and plays for the amount of guys we wanted to have. And I hand selected 20 men that I wanted to wanted to have out here. And I said, I've got 12 spots available. And here's what we're going to do. I'm going to give you a place to stay. I'm going to give you a bed and a pillow and I'm going to feed you for three days. Yep. And outside of that, you're on your own. You got to get here. You don't have to pay me anything, but you also have to work. Yep. So we're going to be here. We're going to work our butts off physical labor for three days. And in exchange, I'm giving you food and a bed in the pillow. And at first I was like, no, I don't think anybody's going to show up to that.

That doesn't sound like a pretty good deal. And the response was overwhelming. And I made that post that I think you're referring to you on Instagram. And I've got probably two, three dozen other people are like, when are you doing that again? Yep. Because people want to belong. That doesn't give me a right to take advantage of them. I want to throw that out there. But people want to belong to something so much so that they're willing to invest their own time and money and energy and as a business owner, it's our opportunity to create an environment where people feel like they can belong to part of something special. And that's what I'm trying to do here. That's really good. That's really good. In fact, I got a text the other day from, so David here

is visiting me in Hawaii right now. And we were sitting on our, my front porch, basically, we call them a line. And we're talking about like what opened our capital, which with my real estate team, why we've grown so quickly and fast the last couple years and just the progress we've seen. And in that conversation, like, you asked Mike, who's my investor relations guy, just like, why did you get attracted to upward or something like that? Like, what brought you there? Anyway, he sent me this later. He said, hey, something hit me this morning. I think another thing that helped you lock in people like Walker and I was your vision. We knew we were signing up for something bigger than just a job. So maybe David needs to clearly articulate vision and share,

and share that. It basically goes on from there. But the idea of being like when you're trying to hire people too, like people are attracted to people who are doing something. There's a vision, there's a mission, there's a thing. Like people love like that's what drew me to Josh Dorkin who found a bigger pockets,

you know, what, 15, 20 years ago was like he had like this vision, this mission. Now he didn't know exactly where he was going. But like he was so convincing in his like, we're doing this. This is a thing. Like bigger pockets is a thing.

And now this thing is grown to millions of members because people love to be a part of something. And I love being a part of it. You love being a part of stuff. You like, yeah. So it applies to it in the small areas. Like you're going to go hire your first employee. And I want to go create a movement of people online.

Like it applies to everything across the board is have that vision, have that thing, create something, create movement. And people will follow. People will join. It's just they join. They're doing it together. And it's amazing. Yeah, they're part of it.

Yeah, they're part of it. There's, we were talking about language earlier. And I think there's a little nuance that we need to make sure that we're aware of because I've fallen into this trap and it's just a minor little thing. If this appeals to you and you're trying to do something like this for your employees and the people who would band with you, get really comfortable with using the terms us and we. I hear so many people say, oh yeah, I created this. I did this. Me, my, I. And it's singular. Yep. This thing is greater than myself. It's us. You know, maybe I founded it. Maybe I host a podcast, but if that's all it was,

it wouldn't go very far. It's we. It's us. And the person who just started following our Instagram account, you know, 15 minutes ago is part of us. We are doing this. And people who are listening are just as much a part of it as me, the guy who is securing the guest and making the investment and putting up the capital and taking the risk. I think the people who are banded with us are just as important. And so I use the inclusive language of we and us versus I and me. It may seem trivial. It's really not to me. Yeah, that's really good. Really, really good. And good reminder, I got to start thinking more often like how I'm how I'm talking about my team. I don't even know. I got to, I bet people can, they're probably laughing right now. Like, oh,

Brandon, always says I or maybe I, maybe I always say we. Do you know, what do I say? Maybe. I don't know. It's just something. It's something I got to think about. Yeah. That's really good. That's really good, man. Appreciate it. All right. Well, this has been fantastic. Like, I mean, really, really good. And, of course, if people want to listen to more of our conversation,

I was on your show back. I don't even know what episode number was with you, but they can just search our names, you know, in Google and they'll find it. Yeah, for sure. They find it easy. Yeah. It was in the last month or a month and a half somewhere there. Yeah.

Yeah. So they'll find it. But we go into other topics and real estate and other stuff. So they can check that out, of course, and you guys should as soon as you to listen to this one. But we're not quite done yet. Ryan, we want to throw a final four questions at you here. We call it our

Famous Four. The Famous Four, the same four questions we ask every guest every week. We alter them a little bit here on the weekend episode to be a little less real estate focus. So let's get to the Famous Four. The first question, actually, we're going to start, again, a little different because the Sunday show here, the weekend show is not about real estate. So I actually got a suggestion from an Adam Scott on Instagram, Ann, A-M-L-A-T-H-A-N,

who said, how about that first question instead, make it? And I really liked it. so I'm going to do it. What is one habit, whether it's a daily or weekly or whatever, that you've recently developed or are working to develop to help you grow personally? This isn't necessarily recent, although I am making tweaks in it. It's an after-action review every day. So what we hear about a lot is morning routines, planning out your day. Very important. But very rarely do we hear about the recap of the day. So I've got my planner right here where I've got written down what I want to accomplish, what I want to do. I've got my non-negotiables. I've got everything in here that I want to do. And so what I'll do at the end of the day is I'll actually go back and I'll recap this. And for me, it's helped because I dump all of the stuff out of my mind. I dump it all under here. I plan out my next day, make some tweaks to what I have to do tomorrow. And then I can be fully engaged and present with my family or anything else that I have going on. If I don't do that, there's no, especially with I work at home.

there's no separation between work life and family life. And so that separation through the recap of the day is tremendously valuable. When do you do that? So I have my own journal that we have at bigger pockets as well. And I also have a spot where it's like end of the day review. And I find that nine times out of 10, I either forget or it's just like late at night. I'm someone like how have you gotten into that habit? And when do you do that thing at end of your workday or end of the day day?

So I do at the end of my workday, like this specific thing. So 10 minutes before I get done, when I get off this podcast with you guys, I'm going to do it. And then I'm going to run to jujitsu. So it's just the last 10 minutes. And then in the evening, what I do a lot less formal. But I've got, I've legitimately got like not pads everywhere. I've got them here. I've got them in my nightstand. I've got them in the center console of my truck. I've got them everywhere. And so if I think about. something at night, I will write it down in one of those notepads. Because if I leave it up here, I won't be able to sleep. I won't be effective. I won't be present. So I just get it out of my brain. And then the first thing I do in the morning is I get all those notes and I'm like, okay, put it into here, which is my official system. Yeah. That's fantastic. If people listening, if that's just the only piece of advice you take from this podcast, that'll be massively beneficial. Yeah. We use a CRN to do the same thing. Like if something,

pops in your head, you create a task in the CRM. And we've just found that your brain is terrible for RAM. It is not a good place to store information. Like you got to get it out of your head into a notebook, into a calendar, into a CRM. And if you don't, anxiety will build. I think that anxiety is a huge problem in today's society. And people have it and they never can really pin their finger on where it's coming from.

But a big piece of it is that. Is there's too much in your head? And that's not a good place to store it. So here's another little thing I do along the same lines. So this is just my notepad app in in my phone. And I've got notes for social media posts for my Friday field notes, which is one of our podcast, daily tasks, podcast guests I want to have on. T-shirt ideas for our store. I mean, if I have, if I think of something, it goes in here and a notepad and it's all categorized and then it goes into my official system.

Yeah, I use Evernote for the same thing. I have like same concept. Yeah. I'm such a note taker. Yeah, constantly. We use Google Drive. All different tools, all the same thing. And then later, when you're sitting around like,

I don't really know what I should work on today. You pull that up and it's all lined up. You just pick whatever you want to go with. That's awesome. Thanks for sharing that, Ryan. I like that new first question for the weekend episode. I may even add that end of the third episode. He'll be the famous five from now on.

Anyway, go ahead. Ryan, you're a groundbreaking vanguard. Okay. Number two. All right. Second question. What is your favorite business book? Hmm.

Other than your own, of course. That's a given. Of course. That should be everybody's favorite business book. It is actually. I didn't say this earlier about. I have read it. Like the week it came out already.

It was phenomenal. So I do recommend it all the time. So thank you. Thank you. I actually don't read a lot of business books as much as it is more self-development. Like classic books like as a man thinking is so, so powerful. I love that book. Wild at Heart is another one.

David and I talk about that constantly. Yeah. Yeah. John Eldridge. just had that transformed me as a man like it like that's not hyperbole for me like that literally transformed me as a man um and i would say we were talking about jaco extreme ownership and which you can be definitely a business book but that extreme ownership concept is so powerful so yeah maybe not exactly business but those are three books that i recommend all the time you know here's

another here's another business book with uh Gary Keller's the one thing yeah that is a great book. I love that book too. The one thing by Gary Keller. It's phenomenal. Phenomenal book. Yeah, real quick hit on John Eldridge. So that book Wild at Heart, he has a story in there of his he's like hiking with his son or the rock climbing, right? And I think his son was like six of the time.

And he's trying to get up that, up that whatever, and he's struggling. And the dad says something. Like John said something to him like, look at you. Come on. You're doing it. You're doing it. You're a wild man. And he said something in his son changed when he said you're a wild man. And he just climbed up the rest of that hill because all want to be wild men. And I named my son Wilder because of that passage in that book. Really? My

kid's name is Wilder. And his nickname, the only thing, I don't call him in Wilder. The only thing I ever call him is Wildman. Like that's it. He's my little Wildman. And it's because of John Eldridge. So yeah, that book changed my life. So have you, have you read Iron John? No. Iron John, no. Iron John by Robert Bly, I believe. And he talks about the Wild Man. I think that would that would tie in nicely. You'd really like that story. That's cool. All right. Next question. What are some of your hobbies? Jiu-Jitsu is a big part of my life right now. I've been training for about a year and a half, a little over.

And I just, I love it. I love it. I love everything about it. I like the physicality. There aren't many other times where you get to come face-to-face in a confrontation with another individual who wants to do you as much harm as you want to do that person. That's true.

In a controlled and safe environment, right? So, Jiu-Jitsu's been big. big and archery and hunting has been big for me as well. And you know, interestingly enough, I was thinking about this the other day. I think the reason I like both of them is twofold. I have to be fully present. It's very difficult for me to shift my mind off, which is like the whole notepad thing and everything because like my wheels are always turning. So it's very difficult for me to switch my mind off. But when I'm at jujitsu, nothing else is going through my mind. when I'm shooting my bow, nothing else is going through my mind. So I love the ability to just

focus, hyper focused on the one thing without anything else distracting me. And the other value that I derive from them is immediate and instant feedback. Yeah. And Jiu-Jitsu, if you do something wrong, you're going to know very quickly that you should not have done that. In archery, if you do something wrong, you look at the arrow. And even if it's just slightly off, you know that it was different from the last shot that you took. And so you can begin to work backwards and figure out, okay, what do I need to do differently in order to create the result that I'm after? Those two hobbies and then the two lessons, man, that's all valuable stuff for me. That's really good. Yeah, I say that actually about surfing a lot. One of the reasons I love surfing is because you're so many things going on when you're

on that board balancing that your subconscious or whatever just kind of goes away. And your subconscious basically is so busy, worried about and you're conscious about staying level on the board and getting that next wave that you don't think about the you know the pile of emails in your inbox and so yeah it just you disappear in the moment you're there and you're constantly same thing you're constantly reacting and yeah constantly the wave is pushing you this way like oh that's feedback okay i got it would just based on that 100% yeah yeah that's that's awesome and jiu jit too again that's i love it in fact we're going to go do it in two minutes jerry shows up here so david and are going to go roll but uh so last question from me then what sets apart successful people in your mind if you had to

really name it. What sets apart successful people from those who give up, fail or just never get started? And we'll kind of in the connotation of maybe like an entrepreneurial journey. I think that successful people find meaning and joy in the process. You know, it's easy to get lucky every once in a while. It's easy to stumble across something and have it work out. But if you're so hyper focused on the end result, you have a false sense of expectations about what it will take and you're going to be disappointed and you're probably going to throw in the towel sooner than you should. But if you find joy and purpose and meaning and just showing up and doing the work and like we were talking

about earlier, you're having faith that if you do that well enough and for long enough, then the results will just take care of themselves and they will. Whatever you want. It will happen if you do the right work and you do it long enough. So here's how. say it, to reframe it. The win isn't the end result. The win is that you actually get to play the game. And if you define winning that way, whether it's showing up to jujitsu, it's not about your belt promotion. That'll take care of itself. It's about the fact that you went today. That's the win or that you showed up to work on time or that you made two dozen calls to prospects and clients. Whatever your thing is, define winning by the activity, not the result that it will

produce. Amazing. Beautiful. All right, Ryan, this has been one of my favorite interviews. If no one's ever told you, you're pretty good at talking. So thank you for talking with us. Can you, I'm trying to get better at it. Where can people find out more about you? The podcast is a great place. You listen to a podcast. So wherever you're listening, Order a man for our podcast. Order a man.com. You'll find our store, our events, our brotherhood. You'll find it all there. So I'd say the podcast or the website and you'll find us all. That's awesome. And make sure you guys follow Ryan on Instagram. What's your Instagram?

Instagram. At Ryan Mickler. All right. Because it's, I really admire your Instagram. I love it when you, when people like complain about something like, well, I don't like that. You know, whatever. And you're just like, this is my page. Like, like my life doesn't affect yours at all. Why are you complaining to me? Like, I don't know. It's like walking in someone's house and telling them everything they did wrong when they decorated. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, well, see you later. See you later. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. You're one of my favorite Instagramic house to follow to see you know. I appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, with that said,

Yeah, phenomenal. Thank you very much. David, you can take us out. Thanks, guys. Yeah. Thanks, Ryan. This is a great job. This is David Green for Brandon Instant Feedback Turner. Signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer.

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