BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 438: The Ultimate Beginner’s Guide to Finding GREAT Deals in ANY Market with Anson Young

Episode Date: January 28, 2021

Anson Young’s voice may sound familiar to you, that’s because he’s been on the podcast four times! Every time he’s back we learn something new, and today, Anson is talking about how to find and fund great deals, regardless of your schedule, or budget. You don’t need to be a full-time real estate professional to find great deals, just be sure to follow Anson’s advice. If you haven’t heard Anson’s prior episodes, here’s a recap. Anson has touched on almost every aspect of real estate investing. He flips, he wholesales, and he sells houses as an agent, meaning he has a huge amount of knowledge to share to BiggerPockets listeners. On average, Anson is doing 12-15 flips a year, 10 wholesale deals a year, and a dozen or so sales a year as an agent. Anson has some great advice on finding off-market (and on-market) deals that include driving for dollars, door knocking, and list building. He also shares how to build a profitable list, what neighborhoods to look into for deals, and how to specify what type of home you’re trying to get depending on your goals. If you’ve been trying to get your foot in the door to real estate investing, Anson shares why many people have trouble at the start. It all comes down to consistency. If you’re new, it may be fun at first to start driving for dollars, but are you doing it consistently? Do you have an accountability partner that can hold you to a high standard to get the work done? Are you systematizing your leads or trying to juggle them all in your head? We also talk about Anson’s fantastic book Finding and Funding Great Deals, where you can find everything you need to find and fund your next real estate deal. We’re also happy to announce the BiggerPockets Book Club, where you can hear from Anson live and ask him questions about his deals, his book, and his portfolio! In This Episode We Cover: How to find profitable deals in hot markets  Determining your goals and aligning them to your investor strategy  What to do if you struggle with consistency in real estate investing How to analyze not only your deals but your market as a whole What to look for in niche lists when prospecting off-market deals Hiring out jobs to get your lead funnel filled How to have your letter stand out when doing direct mail marketing And SO much more! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Forums David's Instagram Brandon's Instagram BiggerPockets Book Club BiggerPockets Podcast 034: Virtual Real Estate Investing and How to Find Great Deals in a Hot Market with Anson Young BiggerPockets Podcast 096: Finding Deals, Wholesaling and House Flipping in a Hot Market With Anson Young BiggerPockets Podcast 235: How to Find and Fund Real Estate Deals with Anson Young BiggerPockets Podcast 328: How to Laser-Focus on the Wildly Important With Author Chris McChesney Zillow Redfin Official BiggerPockets Facebook Group Whitepages BiggerPockets Podcast 012 : Wholesaling and Marketing with Sharon Vornholt ListSource BiggerPockets Podcast 437: How Your “Worst Case Scenario” Can Set You Free From a Job You Hate with Marie Forleo BiggerPockets Podcast 365: Ret. Navy SEAL Jocko Willink on Embracing Discomfort and Leading Through Extreme Ownership (+ His Real Estate Investing Tips!) Check the full show notes here: http://biggerpockets.com/show438 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast, show 438. So as an investor, I honestly haven't looked at the MLS for investment purposes in about three years. With 19,000 agents and let's just say even 1% of them have investor clients. You know, I'm up against dozens and dozens of investors. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, Without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com.

Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on? I'm going on. It's Brandon Turner, host of the Bigger Pockets podcast here in the Seashed with my buddy, Mr. David, the Jiu-Jitsu Master Green. What's up, man? How you been? People are going to actually believe it when you said that.

That was said very facetiously. No, it was not. You're killing me on Jiu-Jitsu. You're very good. You're very good. We've been rolling a lot. We've been very sweaty together a lot lately in the middle of my garage floor. That's the best. Sweaty, hot Hawaiian Jiu-Jitsu. Yes, it's been, it's been amazing.

Anyway, it's been fun having you here. And today's episode is also a lot of fun because we sit down and we dive into a topic that everybody has to deal with. And that's getting your first deal. Now, maybe you're listening to the show and you've already got a couple deals. It's fine. The exact same thing applies today, whether you've done five deals, 100 deals or no deals. But we really try to keep the cookies on the lower shelf today. And we dive in with our buddy, Anston Young, and we say,

if you're like, what should people do accidentally right now this weekend to drive leads into your business so you can get deals? Should you go on market? Should you go off market? Should you direct mail? What's driving for dollars? What's the best strategy? How do you stay consistent over the long haul?

We cover all of that stuff today on this episode. You're going to love it. But before we get to that, let's get to today's quick tip. So today's quick tip is the reason, well, I shouldn't say the reason. We wanted to bring Anson on anyway, but the reason that we're bringing him on this week, particularly, is because we are actually doing something that we've never done before, Bigger Pockets. And that is we are launching a private book club. In other words, like a group that can get together and talk about a certain book.

And this book that we're choosing for the first book is Anson's book. It's called Finding and Funding Great Deals, the Hands on Guide to Acquiring Real Estate in any market. So we're going to be going through this as a group of Bigger Pockets. and premium members. You have to be a pro member or a premium member to be part of the group for the book club. And we're going to be going over this book. And with Anson, specifically on a live Q&A with him, I think that is on February 11th, I believe. Yeah, I think he's going to be doing it on February 11th. So it's going to be awesome. And you can ask as many questions as you want of Anson. He'll be there answering questions and discussing the book. So if you are interested in that,

just go to BiggerPockets.coms.com to learn more how you can potentially get a free copy of this book if you don't already have it, or maybe get a 50% discount, depending on if you're a pro member or not, because you can upgrade to pro and potentially get the book for free. And, oh, go check out the details. I don't want to go into it,

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All right, Anson, welcome back to the Bigger Pockets podcast, one of the few four peters here on the show. How you doing, man? I'm doing great, man. I couldn't even think of like four. That's crazy. But I hope you guys are doing well out there in sunny Hawaii. Thank you. We are attempting to.

David here is, of course, joining me in the C-Shed. And we're going to pick apart your brain on how to find deals, how to fund deals, how to do yoga. I think those three things are our topics today. So with that said, I want to pick up. Let's start with Downward Dog. Hold on. Let me back the camera up a little bit. Let's begin with finding deals. All right.

So who are you, Anson? How did you get into real estate? For those who have not heard one of the last shows, which was episode 34 and then 96 and then 235, but it's been years since that. So who are you? What's your story? Yeah. So I am an investor out of Denver.

I do fix and flips. I do wholesaling. I'm also a licensed real estate agent. been doing real estate since 2005. And my start really quick is that I got laid off in IT. And while trying to figure out what to do next, if I want to go back into IT or what I want to do, in the meantime, we had moved down to Phoenix. And I picked up a copy of Rich Dad, Poor Dad, which is kind of the basic investor origin story.

That got me launched off where I landed in Phoenix and said, you know what, new city, new me. kind of had a eat, pray, love moment and just went all in. And you know what? It took me about a year to get my first deal. But we did that. And it was kind of off to the races. And that was back in the 2005 days. So, but yeah, that was kind of the start moved back to Denver right after that first deal. And just kind of started doing fix and flips wholesaling, got my license a year later. And then just been doing whatever I can ever since. So definitely go check out Anson's previous shows if you want to know his full story. But I'm curious, Anson, let's go to today. What's your portfolio look like? I mean, how much are you flipping? What does your real estate look like today? Yeah.

So right now, mainly just flipping, not doing a whole lot of buy and hold yet, but like 12 to 15 properties a year that we're flipping another 10 or so, another 10 or so, a dozen or so on that side right now. And so total, probably about 30 deals a year and kind of keep the team small, keep it a lifestyle business, make sure that I'm not working a whole lot, crazy, you know, 80 hour weeks or anything like that. So that's the goal and we're sticking to it for now. Well, one thing I really like about you and the reason I brought you on the show again today is because you are really good at balancing that like that lifestyle piece with trying to actually make enough money to live and survive and thrive and have a great life, but not working 80 hours a week. And so I want to really dig in today on the nitty gritty of what are you doing to

find deals in this crazy competitive market? How are you putting them together? How does that work? What can people do to shave? What's the 80 20? I guess. What's the 20% that's going to give you 80% of the results? And I think you above almost anybody else I know have like really nailed that. So let's, I guess just dig into it today. Let's say I am a brand new real estate investor, wanted to get started with real estate, wanting to buy my first rental or my flip or whatever, I just need a good deal. What should be my first step? Yeah, I mean, if you're just starting off, and I know a lot of listeners here kind of are in this boat, this is kind of like the number one question that a lot of people come at least to me with. But really, some of the things that I talk about

will really depend on your goals, kind of your end goals, what that looks like, your budget, how much time you have allocated to real estate investing. And so first really analyze those things and figure out, okay, like my goal is to own two rentals and I'll be happy. Like that's one goal. But if you want to go flip 100 houses, those are two very different directions that you could go, two very different basically playbooks that we would write for you. And so that would be number one.

And then number two is definitely make sure that you have the, that you just have. have what it takes to stick with whatever you're doing to get to that goal. And so kind of that consistency, stick with it, to it,ness, whatever that word is that people are. Are you saying that I can't get rich quick overnight in real estate, Hansen? Because I'm going to shut this podcast off right now. That's the case. You're done.

Yeah. Shut it down. You can. I mean, you'll, I always say, like, if somebody's starting to whatever they're doing, if they're starting to market, if they're starting to do direct mail or something, it's like, yes, you could absolutely get the very first phone call in is just a killer deal and it's just super that easy. But most of the time, it's consistency and two, three, four months of consistent effort will pay off. And so a lot of people quit at month two when they should have stuck

with it because the golden, you know, the golden nuggets are in month four, five, six of consistency, at least when it comes to something like direct mail. And so people, I think, want it, you know, They want the Insta gratification of just, boom, I did this. I need this back. And now I'm a millionaire, whatever. So, Anson, this is a common theme I've seen in real estate investing. And it's really not different than everything else in life where if you're expecting instant results and you don't get them, it's very easy to quit versus if you're expecting it to be

a grind. Those people usually make it very similar to something like working out. You're not going to build muscle when you first start going to a gym. That consistency is what matters. Do you have advice for people that know they struggle with that specifically, that they just, that's why they're maybe having a hard time getting traction in life that you tell people that keeps them encouraged so that they don't quit? Yeah, that's the, I mean, that's a killer question because, you know, obviously the 100%

fix. if I had that, you know, I could bottle it and sell it. But I think, I think like kind of the fundamentals of that question are, you know, do you have any kind of accountability? I know when I was writing the book, I had Brandon to keep me on track. He, I wasn't always great at it. And he had to drag me along sometimes because we were both writing and we wanted to hit a certain amount of words per day.

But that accountability, knowing that I had to show up, put my numbers at a spreadsheet, and then every week or two have to answer to Brandon, it's pretty intimidating. Well, the whole like if you don't, if you don't get your weekly numbers, we cut off a finger. That actually motivated you quite a bit too. It did. And, you know, I'm nine fingers now or eight. Eight and a half fingers now. Yeah. Yeah. We didn't get the whole finger off that time because you did pretty cool your goal. But I think accountability is huge. I mean, having somebody else to kind of bounce that off of and, you know, you tell them your goals of like, hey, even though I'm just starting, I want to do 50 phone calls this week and then breaks down to 10 a day and then have have a system in place where you can be held accountable to those because that external accountability. is honestly one of the biggest factors of starting out and being successful, having

like someone to answer to you, you're either going to disappear and you're not going to hear from that person because they're just kind of embarrassed that they're not hitting their goals, or they're going to step up and they're going to be like, I don't want to let Brandon down or I don't want to let David down because I know that they're, you know, I told him I'm going to do this. Now it's on me to do it. Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, it's one of the reasons we interviewed Christmas Chesney a long time ago on the podcast. He's the author of the book, four disciplines of execution. And I love that book.

And one of the reasons why is, yeah, they're so big on like every week you meet with your team. This is like, this like team focus, not necessarily accountability group focus, but like, your mastermind focus. But like, like you meet with your team and you're like, this week I commit to making 50 phone calls. And the next week you got to be like, last week I committed to making 50 phone calls. I only made 45.

It's like you, like, you self identify as a loser. And so like, you're like, nobody else needs to call you out and be like, hey, man, you failed. You know it because you just said, I said I was going to do this. I didn't do it. Yeah, extreme accountability is so important. David, what do you think on that? I know you utilize a lot of that in your life. Yeah, that's a huge part on our real estate team is we have to meet as a team and we talk about what we're doing, which keeps everybody engaged. I think that there's like another level of depth

that we can probably take this because when you're not good at something is when you feel the most shame and when you isolate the most. So you hear people talk about real estate investing. You want to get started, but you know you're not good at it. And so you don't want to bring up the topic where someone's going to say, how many doors do you have and you get to hold up the goose egg? Okay. The problem is the community is what brings the accountability that Anson's talking about. When you're around other people that are doing the same thing, you are way more likely to follow the path that it would take to get to success. And so what I've found is the best thing you can do is to humble yourself and jump in with other people that are doing well and talk about it

because it brings that 50 number that ANS is talking about to the front of your mind. Every day you wake up and you're thinking about I got to get my 10 calls. I got to get my 10 calls. I don't like this feeling. I'm going to make 15 to make up because I only made five last week, which is why we love bigger pockets. Because that's what it's doing. It's bringing investors together, creating a community. So what I would say, for people that are having trouble either getting started or just sticking with it,

you're not in a community. That's one of the reasons CrossFit does so well. That is a community of people that identify as workout people. it's very hard to skip your workout when all your friends are going to say, where were you today? When you're going to the gym by yourself, it's very easy to skip that workout. So the encouragement I would have is if you're, especially if you're having a hard time getting started, you need more accountability. You need more people.

You need to get deeper into the community. You need to make more friends. And that's really one of the reasons Bigger Pockets Pro leads to more people finding success. Because now they're on this journey with others as opposed to I just kind of show up. I look at what you're doing. when I sit in the back and I'm the first person out as soon as it ends. Yeah, and a little bit of a tease here. I'm not sure I'm supposed to talk about this yet,

but we are working right now on a thing for Bigger Pockets Pro, which is going to link people together in a mastermind group in a stronger way. Like right now, through the intention journal, we have a mastermind group that we help people form, but we're taking that to a whole new level this year. And so in 2021, you guys are going to see some big changes to the pro membership,

specifically in regards to what we're talking about today, which is how to get more accountability with other people on the same journey. And I know, Anson, you and I've used it both in our lives, David. You use it in your life. So that's phenomenal. Anything else you would encourage people with that are just struggling with like giving up? Because we all know, like if people stuck with things long enough, they'd probably be fine, but they're not.

So accountability, huge. Anything else you throw in there? Yeah. I mean, obviously the road to the first check, I always like, I've seen people who get their first check and it's all the validation of kind of all of their effort, all of the pain, sweat and tears that they went through to get there. try to help people visualize that of like, like, you know, what's it going to be like if you have $5,000 extra dollars or whatever. And then also don't compare yourself to others. Like I look at the

bigger podcast titles and I could see even I'm intimidated by, you know, it's like this arms race of like 23 year old owns 10,000 units. And I look at that. I'm like, okay, I'm 40 and I don't have 10,000 units. What am I doing with my life? Like I could see how that could be a comparison where you're always comparing yourself to, you know, the younger, faster, more units kind of thing. And it's not an arms race. You run your own race. If your goal is two units in the next two years, like run that race. Don't worry about the 23 year old kid with 600,000 units or whatever it is. Run your own race and don't compare because that'll easily derail you and discourage you. And when you're discouraged, you're not going to put in the work to, you know, kind of get to

where you want to go. Yeah, that's an interesting, an interesting topic of like, how do you, How do you decide between, like, how do you balance between being inspired by people? Because I love to hear the stories, right? Of the 25-year-old kid who's just killing me and like, like, just dominating. But then how do I not compare? Because I don't want to feel bad about myself. And I think that's, I think you nailed it there. It's like, you remember, like, everyone's running their own race.

So the real question is, are you running your race or are you sitting down watching TV on the side of the road? Because that's what most people are doing. They're scrolling TikTok on the side of the road, not running their race. So if you're running your race, who cares if somebody else is running their race faster or slower or whatever? I mean, they're, I think keeping that in my mind. mind. David, real quick, throwing that at you, how do you balance the comparison versus inspiration with, especially in the online world? You know, what I think about it a lot is that I don't have a family, people like you that are married with kids. So I have more time to put towards it. And frankly,

I may even have more ambition because my energy is not split among several different areas. So I think more people are looking at me like, oh, that guy's an animal. He does all these things. How does he do that? And I know, well, that reality is I don't have to worry about a four-year-old. I have nothing else to put my energy towards but this. So I tend to see people that watch me saying, look at the race. He's running. I'm not good enough and say, no, no, no, that's ridiculous. Because when I have a family, I'm probably going to do nothing. I may just say, I don't want to do it anymore. I'm just going to focus on that. So it's very good to recognize there's a part of us that always wants to compare ourselves to other people as a shortcut for being

honest with ourselves. But I do this with other things I do with fitness. You see someone in the gym with an insane body and I just think I just don't want to work that hard, right? I don't want it as bad as that person does. And units and wealth is another thing. If the purpose of doing this is to have more time with your family, the dumbest thing you could do is to try to get to 10,000 units working 100 hours a week and taking massive risk because that wasn't your goal. So this goes back to what you and I were saying earlier, Brandon, people have to know what their goal is. They have to know what they want. The purpose of what they're trying to do is because if you don't, you become susceptible to the arms race at Anson talked about. I've never heard that phrase,

Anson, I thought that that was a brilliant way to put it. Well, yeah, I mean, I think I was just scrolling through my podcasts and it and it just seemed like, and I get it. It's, it's everybody wants to hear from, you know, the person who's doing it better, who's doing it faster, who's doing it younger. And so yeah, it just kind of occurred to me like, oh, man, some people could be very discouraged by this kind of arms race of things or be absolutely inspired by it, like Brandon said. So yeah. All right. So let's go. So look at your end goals. I'm going to try to jot down these notes here. He said, look at your end goal. Like, what do you actually want? That's going to help to find a lot of how you find those deals for your first step. Like, you know, understand that this takes a

long time. It's not going to happen overnight. Don't compare, right? Like run your own race. What else you got for like getting that first deal? What are some tangible things that people should be doing right now to land that first deal? Yeah. So it's going to depend on budget. But definitely learning how to analyze your market, kind of what you're working with, make sure that that aligns with your goals. I think we're going to hammer on that pretty hard because you can analyze your market and Denver may not be great for $90,000 cash flow rentals. And so you're going to want to know that immediately.

And so I think if you're ever anywhere interested in real estate at all, you're probably already doing this, but going into the redfin and the zillow and just, kind of looking at neighborhoods, what properties are selling for, you know, go in and look at what they're renting for. That market analysis piece is huge. But, you know, taking action, definitely, I think, based on budget, if you don't have a lot of time or if you don't have a lot of money, but you have some time, there's a lot of free ways that you can use your time to capitalize on that. So my, you know, I would say go drive for dollars. That's still my number one list right now is people who are taking that time to get in their car, looking at the neighborhoods.

Some of the deals that we get aren't on a lot of these other lists. They're not getting direct mail because they're not over 65 and they don't have 100% equity and they don't have kind of these low-hanging fruit metrics that other investors are using. But their house has some deferred maintenance issues. And you wouldn't know that unless you're driving through the neighborhood and you have your eyes directly on that house. Can you give an exact like, if I'm brand new, I've never heard the term drive for dollars before. I don't even know what that means.

Like, Anson, tell me exactly what I should do this weekend. Like, what do I do? So, yeah, this weekend, you should definitely identify some neighborhoods that you're interested in investing in, whether it's fix and flip, rental, whatever. And then you're going to go and you're going to drive every single street of that neighborhood. You know, grab your Google Maps, map it out. Whatever you need to do, you're going to drive every single street. You're going to look at every single house.

You're going to look for deferred maintenance issues. So is the roof bad? you know, siding, windows, does it look vacant, overgrown? Is it half burnt down? You know, it's like all these, all these things that you could look for. And then you're going to write down the addresses and then you're going to go home and you're going to look up who owns those properties so that you can get in touch with them. So that's a, you know, that's a great way to spend your weekend if you have time and you're short on cash. You can build out, I think somewhere around 50 to 100 properties in a couple hours of your time. And then you can get started on whatever

you want to do next. If you want a cold call, if you want to direct mail, if you want to, you know, go knock on their doors, whatever is in your comfort zone, in your goals, in your budget, all of those things. So we've got that method. We've got the, like you said, the Zillow, the Redfin method. If someone's listening and they're not sure which method is right for them, how would they walk them so themselves through that decision making process? For the market analysis, Whether it more the strategy. Should I go off market or should I go on market? Gotcha. Yeah. I think the, uh, the, the Zillow, you know, redfin piece is more just kind of getting these high level ideas of what's going on in those neighborhoods and in the market. So if everything

in this neighborhood selling for, you know, $400,000, but, you know, you're only pre-approved for 200, you're going to waste your time going driving for dollars in that neighborhood unless you're looking to pick up a killer deal. I think it's more about just getting more market. at knowledge of kind of what's going on in your city, what's going on in these different zip codes in these different neighborhoods so that you can have a better idea of where to go focus so that you're more laser focused instead of saying all of Denver with one million people, you know, can I narrow it down to two zip codes or 10 neighborhoods where the properties are trading at a level that you need? So if you're looking for cash flow, if you're looking for

fix and flips or wholesales, you have a better idea what's going on at those. neighborhoods. Yeah, that makes that makes a lot of sense. All right. So let's go really quick back to you're going driving for dollars. You find some properties around there. You find this cool like house that maybe tarp on the roof and you're like, all right, I'm going to go home and look up that information. First of all, what information am I looking up? Where do I go to find that? What do I do once I have that information? Yeah. So the easiest way is to look up on county tax records. If your state allows it, some states are non-disclosure states, which means that that's not. not public information. So if you're in one of those states, I know that Brandon's called out this

information for, I think on the Facebook group or something, go to county tax records, see if you can easily look it up by address. And then if that doesn't work, go to a site like whitepages.com where you can either look up this info pretty easily or sometimes it costs, you know, a couple dollars to get that information. So, but yeah, that's kind of how you extract that information for the next piece. All right. So once you find those people, then what do you do with them? I mean, what's your advice on reaching out to those people?

Yeah, I mean, if you're just starting out and let's just say we're back to the scenario where you're, you know, your cash strapped investor with some time on your hands, once you know who they are and have some information about them, have their address and maybe their phone number, depending on how big the list is and your goals or whatever, I would advise you to start just calling those people. That's going to be your lowest cost, best use of your time, kind of instant gratification. You kind of instantly know if they're interested or not

in moving forward in the process. And so calling them, you're just using some of your time and in your cell phone. So what can be more cost effective than that? Yeah, that's cool. Do you find newbies tend to work too hard on non-motivated sellers? That's a pattern I've noticed. I'm wondering if it's similar for you. Yeah, absolutely. They feel like, oh, man, I got these five people that I talk to. And then they hammer those people for like two

months and they kind of spend their wheels and waste their time without really doing a needs analysis on, you know, hey, are they actually motivated? You know, are they actually looking to sell? And if they're looking to sell, are they looking to sell for a price that makes sense for an investor? Absolutely. That's a great piece of advice to hammer out. I see new agents do this. I see it with new investors. Your nature is going to be, how do I take every tool that Brandon Turner gave me and apply it to these five people and figure out which one of these deals is going to work? But though experienced people, they don't even bother getting their toolbox out of their truck until that person has said, I need a rehab on my house, and this is the price I'll pay. And then you can use all these strategies. So you're looking for motivation.

Then you're looking for realistic expectations. If they want top market value for their home, they're going to go to real estate agents. they're not going to sell it to you. If they got to sell it and the price they're giving you make sense, that's when you can start coming up with these creative strategies and bring it up seller financing and wholesaling options or whatever. But I've just seen so many people spitting their wheels saying, David, how do I get this person to understand why they should sell me their house

at this price? Oh, man. You know what I'm talking about, Anson? Have you seen it too? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And it's brutal because you can get stuck on so many different parts of that process. Like the phone call, some people will just set every appointment.

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driving for dollars is an amazing way to get started with off market deals. But let's say you've, you've got some money that you can spend on marketing. You've got a few hundred or maybe a few thousand dollars you could dedicate towards this. What do you then advise for finding that first deal? Yeah, so the next step up for the first person is just more time intensive. Like if you're like, hey, I got some money now, but now I'm going to direct mail, that's great. You're kind of getting out there and doing the right things. But now when all those calls are coming in, that's a lot of time. That's time intensive.

And so I think what we were just kind of chatting about on the side there is exactly what I was going to say, which is you can absolutely hire in these things that. take up a lot of time. So if you don't have time to answer the phone, you know, hire a company that can do that. If you don't have time to do mailers to, you know, get together better lists and then pull the trigger on that. You're not going to, you know, you're not going to want to sit there and lick stamps. You don't have time for that, right? But you got the money to either pay someone else to do it or hire a company that does that. So you're basically building a business around the deal finding process rather than just being the all-around guy who does every,

it has no time to do anything else because you're busy stuffing envelopes and taking phone calls where, you know, in this scenario, you're the guy who has the money to hire that out and not a lot of time to do the inner working pieces of those things. So you can infinitely scale those things. If you don't have time to go on appointments, you can hire in acquisitions. You know, if you don't have time, you know, to sell the property, hire in an agent. A lot of things that you can absolutely outsource. That's kind of what I did with my mobile home park fund, right? Like, I was like, I really want to own a bunch of mobile home parks and get into it, and now, you know, get into multifamily, like, larger, you know, even larger stuff.

Like, I was like, I really want to do that, but I don't have time for that. So I just hired people to do each piece of it. I'm like, I hired Mike to be the investor relations. I hired Ryan to go and do all the due diligence and kind of lead things. I hired Walker to help acquisitions. And so these guys just kind of took over the, and they do it way better than I could do anyway. So now I don't spend how much any time on it, but we get 10 times more done than I could ever do a loan. And so, but again, I had the money in the beginning to actually do that, which is why I chose that route. everybody has the money in the beginning to be able to do that.

But even if you don't have money, you could probably JV with people. You could find other ways to get it done. And I would argue that like, let's go back to the direct mail marketing. Yes, I would not. Well, I'm curious what you would say, Anson, but I would generally recommend not printing or handwriting each of your own letters in the, like, would you agree? Like, it's just, it's too cheap to hire other people to do that. Like, just company out there.

I mean, yeah, it just depends. Like, I wrote letters, you know, when I had 50 people on my list, you know. Okay. And it was just like, it was easy to do. I was like, you know, this will take me. I could be watching a video or listening to a podcast while I'm doing it. It's kind of easy to do. But there is a point where you have to just analyze, like, is my time worth, you know,

something that I could do 25 cents a letter, you know, is my time worth, you know, the $15 that I'm going to spend on, you know, having someone else do it? And there's definitely a point where you're like, my time is better spent on other things than just writing letters or just licking envelopes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you're sending a few letters, I don't think is the problem with that. but if you're trying to do 500 letters or 1,000 letters,

they're just completely wasting your time. I've tried it. Yeah. So, first of all, who do you mail these letters to you? What kind of list are you sending to? How do you get a list? Let's start there. And then we'll move to what the letter might want to look like or say.

Yeah, of course. So, you know, lists could be its own, you know, three-hour thing. But in general, besides the driving for dollars list, of course, we already talked about that. But my idea with lists is that kind of the harder that they are, get the less competition you're going to have. And so niche lists is what I like to look for. So a brand new investor may not have all the ins and outs of what this looks like and how to get them. But have that at the top of mind because when you go after foreclosures, that's a public

list in almost every single state. And so when foreclosures are published on Wednesday, everybody who has an internet connection knows that that property has some motivation and can you know, be bought, basically. And so, so everybody's going to have that on their list. So think about the easier that they are to get, the higher competition that, uh, that you're going to be facing. So, um, you know, something that's like a listed property is there's 19,000 agents in Denver. They're all going to be looking at those properties. And so, you know, um, so as far as niche lists, you know, think more like, okay, utility shutoff list or people who are being evicted, you know, kind of an eviction list. Who can you get in front of, who can you talk to to help you get lists like

this? You know, is an attorney cousin of yours who has access to court records? Anything that you can do to get these niche lists that are small and then you'll have much less competition. So just a quick example is probate is a big thing. One of the counties in Denver, the only way to get a probate list is to go down in person and, well, this is pre-COVID, but go down in person. And, go down in person, you can only pull 20 records a day. They cost a dollar a piece. And so if you're looking for 500 people for this probate list, it's going to take you some time to go down and get there. And then there's no guarantee that there's real estate in that in that probate case. And so it was very labor intensive, very time intensive. But I guarantee that we were probably one of the

only people who were actually putting in the work to do it. So our competition was much lower. So just think along those lines. I love that. And I think a lot of the wealth is where things are difficult. We talk about a lot is run towards hard. It's a common phrase we say in the podcast. Can you explain real quick what probate is? And then I want to dig in a little bit more on that.

Of course. Yeah. If somebody passes away without a will, a lot of times it'll go to two probate courts. So then the state will decide what to do with all of that person's bank accounts and house and belongings and all of that stuff. And so, yeah. So the court has to get involved. And then a lot of times there's court cases that are attached to that.

So you can go and find out who's the executor or who the court signed as an executor. Sometimes if they do die with a will, but it could be contested or something, it goes through court. And so you're going to want to get in front of that and to kind of figure out what's going on inside those probate cases. That's really good. And by the way, if people want to know more about the probate stuff way back eight years ago on episode number 12 with Sharon Borenhold on the Bigger Pockets podcast, we dove deep into the world of probate. So you can go back and listen there a little bit.

But again, it's a more difficult task. Now, what I think is, I get these emails or DMs or whatever on Instagram occasionally, maybe several times a month. People saying things like, hey, I found this XYZ program, which is just going to, in one click of a button with doing no work whatsoever, it's going to give me an amazing list of motivated sellers. What do you think on those kind of things? Like those companies or those programs that just pay us a fee and we'll give you the list right there.

I think, you know, I'm kind of torn on them. I think that there are a lot of ones that are probably good. It was weird because I got something similar where all of a sudden, like every other Facebook message is like, hey, I pull lists. I can do this. You know, it's kind of this weird boom of people who maybe just have a list source account or something. But I would say definitely vet those companies, vet those people.

I know that when I go through like my direct mail provider, that that company is actually pulling good lists that I'm paying them for. They're, you know, absolute professionals who are doing high volume who know exactly what they're doing. And so I don't have any issues with saying, hey, you know, I need 2,000 more people in my market. Can you pull X, Y, Z lists or what kind of list do you think I should pull and have them do it? That's one thing. But if somebody's just offering a course or program or some random person in your Facebook messages, I would be very wary of that kind of list. because I could pull you any kind of list source list. That doesn't mean that it's good, that's quality,

or that you're going to get anything out of it. Well, and a lot of times the strength of the list depends upon the area you're in, right? So, like, I give you an example. As I once did a direct mail campaign to Grays Harbor, Washington, which no one was doing direct mail. I still don't think anybody was doing direct mail there. And I sent 300 letters. And out of them, I got 40 phone calls.

And I literally just pulled the most basic list. Like, I went to list source. I bought like absentee owners who had own their properties over five years. That was all I did. Just absentee owners over five years. I got 40 phone calls from 300 letters because nobody was doing that in that. Mark it, if I went to Denver right now and did like absentee owners, meaning people don't live in the property. And I did.

They've owned it for over five years. It's such a like probably common list that it would probably, I'd get like 1% or a 0.1% response rate because those people are just getting saturated from a lot of different investors. So a lot of it depends on your area saturated. There are a lot of people doing direct mail there. You've got to be better than the competition. So in some areas, that means you've got to be really good. areas, you can just be, you know, average.

Exactly. Yeah. No, you hit it right on the head. Some, some markets are great for that because marketers haven't come in and ruined it for everybody yet. And then other markets like, like this one and a lot of the top metros are exactly like that. Your direct mail response rate is like dirt low. It's so low. And and then there's also like we could talk about, let's say even if your direct mail has become a commodity in your area, like every, like potentially motivated seller is getting a dozen letters. There are also ways to stand out, right? There's a postcard versus a letter. You could include a little trinket. You could call them first. There's different ways to differentiate yourself,

right, to increase your conversion rate at least, even if everybody is doing it. Do you have any good tips there on how to get a better response rate on your direct mail? Yeah, no, and I have an example that's like tailor made, even though we didn't talk about this beforehand, but I started a mailing campaign based on driving for dollars in a brand new neighborhood that I was working in. And I didn't cross-checked to see if anybody owned multiple properties. But I ended up mailing this guy based on this duplex that I saw that didn't look that great. So it ended up on my direct mail list.

And he called and he's like, hey, man, what's, you know, kind of what's the deal? So I kind of explained what we do. And he has seven properties in this area. And he's probably on everybody's list because he's owned them since the 80s. If they're not all the way paid off, they're very close. It's a very hot neighborhood, actually pretty close to Bigger Pockets headquarters. So a lot of things are gentrifying and changing around there. So of course, it's just this hot area.

And he said he gets about 10 letters a week per property. So he's getting 70 letters per week per property or 70 letters a week total. So if you look at the whole month, he's getting a whole lot of mail. And so why did he call me? He called me because he actually just liked my mailer. It was bright, colorful, had my logo on it. So it's branded mail. So it makes me look like a professional company.

versus just an anonymous yellow letter or something like that. And my goal for direct mail is handcrafted and high quality. So it just looks and feels like a high quality piece from a professional company that has personal touches in there that, you know, a letterhead with handwriting on it. So you're mixing kind of the personal touch of a yellow letter with the professional touch of a professional letter. So you're trying to hit all the boxes there. And that was the very first mailing. We started talking about a different property that we're still talking about.

And it's been a year. So sometimes consistency and sticking with it helps. But we're still talking about it, property with a house and a duplex on it. And I really want that property. He's just not 100% ready to sell. I think he has to wait for a few things to fall in place. But he called me out of 70 letters that week. And that was the first time I ever mailed them.

So it goes to show that you can stand out in a very crowded market. And a lot of times it's just like, and you'll get to know this when you go on appointments. Some people just love to show you're their mail. Like, look at all this stuff I get. And you'll see there's like 10 pink postcards, you know, 20 yellow letters. If you're not doing pink postcards and yellow letters, you're already standing out. You're not doing the basic thing just to blend in with everybody else. Why is somebody going to call you on your yellow letter that's going to

stand out from the other 19 yellow letters in that mailbox. I don't think there's a lot you can do there, but there's a lot of other things you can do to stand out. And this goes back to why I like the the whole driving for dollars thing, because that's your list. Like, you didn't just buy the same list that everyone else did. So hopefully you get those people who haven't gotten 70 letters. They've gotten three in the past three years. And yours comes at a good time. And so yeah, that's a, it reminds me, we had the conversation with Marie Forleo last week on the podcast, just all about marketing and how do you stand out? How do you appear different? And then this coming Sunday, We're doing kind of a follow-up, a part two of that where David, I and Kevin just really dig into the world of marketing and what that means.

So I want to encourage you guys. If you're interested in this direct mail thing, you want to be better at marketing. We spend this coming, I think it's this coming Sunday. What episode, Kevin, let me know what episode this is. Kevin's our producer. What's it, 439, I think is the one that's coming up this week, is where we just dive really deep into this world of, again, marketing, how to distinguish yourself. And I talk about kind of the four ways that if you have a couple of, commodity type business, how you can stand out.

So we'll be talking about that on Sunday's episode. So that said, okay, so let's go. We covered some driving for dollars. We covered some direct-mail marketing. Now I want to shift a little bit here to, I guess, on-market strategies. So, first of all, should new investors even be looking on the market or are the deals all gone, like the ones that are listed by real estate agents that are just for sale by a real estate agent?

Are they, is it too hard to find anything there? Oh, man. It's brutal. It's hard to find like full market retail houses just for regular buyers, like putting my agent hat on. It's a bloodbath just to find a, you know, just a normal $600,000 house. You have to bid higher. You're going to always be in multiple offer situations. So as an investor, I honestly haven't looked at the MLS for investment purposes in about three years. It's just been that long where with 19,000 agents and let's just say even 1% of them have investor clients. I'm up against dozens and dozens of investors who, if that's their only way to find deals

is through their agent, I want to shift to the left and I want to go and attack homeowners directly in my kind of market. We have super low inventory. And so it's going to be really hard that any time just a normal house pops up, it is gone in two or three days. When a fixer house shows up, it's gone almost immediately. It's insane.

Yeah. And your market is a little unique in the sense that Denver is one of the hottest markets in the entire country. It has been for five years at least. It's red hot. So you make a good point. A deal isn't going to fall into your lap in Denver, because there's so many people that are looking for it.

But that doesn't mean you can't get a base hit. And in a market like yours, I think agents can really help with just getting somebody into the game or getting a deal that you can house hack and then that becomes a rental or maybe even finding a rental property with an agent. What are your thoughts on how you apply the different strategies we're talking and which one would work in what kind of market? Yeah, absolutely. And that was a good point. If you're in another market, if you're in a Graze Harbor or a smaller kind of market, you probably can find deals just off the MLS.

I think I was talking to another investor in Oklahoma City, and they're like, yeah, you can buy, you know, 1% deals just right on the MLS. I was just like, like, that doesn't exist here. Obviously, different markets have different things. So if you're at a low competitive market with higher inventory, there's a lot of chances for those on-market deals. You can wait until they hit 90 days on market or 120 days on market and then go in with a lower offer, whereas a market like mine or Portland, or, you know, San Francisco, Boston, whatever, when days on markets, like three, you don't have that opportunity to go in and the seller's a little bit more desperate because they've been on the market longer, all those kind of things.

So in a market like mine, you almost have to go off market to get anything done. And yes, you can absolutely do house hacks. You can do kind of more appreciation friendly rentals on market all day long. But if you're looking for like a killer fix and flip with a $100,000 profit, it's going to be a lot, lot harder. That's a good point. And see, Anson, your strategy is set up for that. You need something with so much mean on the bone that you can buy it, pay your closing costs, pay your rehab costs, pay your holding costs, pay your acquisition costs, pay your acquisition costs, pay your acquisition costs, pay your acquisition, pay your acquisition, pay your acquisition, and your direct mail, and still make a profit. Whereas someone who's using an agent really has no expenses other than their closing costs and maybe an inspection and an appraisal.

So keep that in mind. Don't get discouraged when you hear us talking about these hot markets. And you said something that was gold that had to do with the days on market. I bought a lot of real estate. I help a lot of people buy real estate. In my opinion, this is like the best tip I could give anybody. Look at days on market. It doesn't get talked about. It gets overlooked. It's the biggest secret in real estate. When I'm looking for houses for myself, like I'm looking to buy a couple in the Bay Area. I'm also in Hawaii right now buying properties in Maui. I set my on market filter to whatever the average day on market is, I just double it. And I say, okay, I only want to see houses a bet on the market for this long. So I have two in contract right now in Kihei that we're both on the market for over 250 days. And I'm going in and I'm getting a good discount, but it's not because I'm this insanely good negotiator. I found sellers and I just kept asking until finally they said, yeah, I want a 1031 and I have a deal. I need to get this thing sold. Boom. Now I've got motivation. They don't have any other options. That's so different than our clients that look at the hot house on Redfin and say, I want to see it right now. It's been on the market for three days.

And so does half of the state of California. And you know there's no way that you're going to get it. And they set themselves up to be frustrated. So thank you for pointing that out. Don't swim upstream when you're doing this. There's an easy way, which is just to see what came out on Zillow and go look at it right away. Don't get pre-approved first. Look at the same homes everyone's looking at. You're going to find yourself very frustrated. Looking at stuff that's been on the market for a lot longer is an incredibly useful strategy even with on-market deals. I learned that through REO because they would always do price reductions at a 30-90-120-day increment.

So I knew if it was 89 days on market in one or two days, we should be seeing a price reduction. And so that trained me to just look at days on market like a hawk. So I never thought about that. Brilliant. Yeah, that's cool. All right. So we got to wrap this pretty soon, but I want to know we talked about on-market's

stuff working with a real estate agent. We talked about direct-mail marketing. We talked about driving for dollars. And those are kind of like the three big that I teach every week on the webinar. Those are the three that most real estate investors could probably find a deal. If you work those three strategies, you're probably going to figure out something, right? But let's say you want to be a little more creative. So maybe I don't want to dig into these topics.

I just want maybe almost a list from you. What are some other things people can just do to find deal that you've seen working, whether in your market, other markets, friends of yours, whatever? What are just a list of things people can do? And what is it? And then people can go and research that on bigger pockets or look up other shows to learn more about it. I don't want to go into each one because we'll be here for hours. But what else can people do?

We'll be here all day. There's a lot. No, I think kind of hitting on the theme from before is, you know, kind of look at the stuff that's not normal right now. So higher days on market, if you find a short sale in your market where right now we have like three on the market here. So getting into one of those short sales could be a great way to find some equity where people don't want to deal with it right now. They just need to move. And so kind of look for the things that are rare.

Like, REOs aren't super hot right now. Is there a way that you can get a house hack REO through Fannie Mae on an FHA offer? And that's something that's so rare right now that not a lot of people are looking at that, whereas everybody was looking at REOs only like 10 years ago. So that could definitely be a way. Cold call, email, anything you can do to get in front of the seller, door knock. you know, leaving people voicemails, and then putting everybody in a CRM so you're staying consistent. So if you do have a list, make sure that you're consistently following up,

consistently hitting these people so that you're top of mind when they go, yeah, I think I do need to sell. Like I'm right at the point where I need to sell. Yeah. So those are just kind of a shock and approach of different ways. There's almost nothing new in real estate and deal finding. And sometimes it'll shift a little bit. This works better than that.

marketers ruin that. Now we have to do this. But, but, you know, making sure that you're consistent, making sure that you're following up, because that's a thing that a lot of investors don't do is some killer follow-up. And you'll find a lot more deals that way too. Yeah, what you find is, and I'm sure you find this in the agent world, David, as well, where it's like they go and they sent some letters and then, you know, they didn't get many phone calls. And then they tried, you know, looking on Realtor.com and then they, you know, they didn't really find anything there. So then maybe a couple weeks later, they maybe did a little bit driving and they saw a couple properties. And then, you know, they called them while they were sitting in front of the house.

It didn't really work out. So then a couple months later goes by and they're watching a lot of TV and like 35, 40 years goes by and they're dead. And like that's just what like what most people do is like, why don't we run this like a business? And this is what I've seen you, Anson, do really, really well is like put it in the CRM. Like, how are the leads coming in? What's our cost to acquire a customer here? What? Like, you know your metrics. You You track them. You run your business like a guy running a McDonald's. And you don't have to be amazing at the beginning.

Like, it's not that complicated to do this stuff. And there's a million and one programs out there that can help you. And bigger pockets even has stuff that can help you with this stuff to track it. But like it just requires doing this stuff. You have to treat it like a business. You have to start knowing your numbers, knowing your metrics. And you're going to get the results that you want if you treat it that way. Agreed?

Yeah, absolutely. Agreed. Okay. And understand that businesses, McDonald's did not become. a freaking machine of hamburgers when they first started it. They opened it. They said, our goal is to make hamburger making more efficient. And they look to see where are two people bump it into each other?

Let's move around the floor plan. All right. We've got way too many ingredients. It's taken too long. Let's get rid of them. Let's think about the ones we want. And as they went, it became more efficient. They started to learn what worked.

I would just throw that in there. You run it like a business, but you have to have the expectation in the beginning. You're going to suck. And that's totally fine. You get good from doing it. Don't wait until you're good to start doing it. doing it. That's so good. So good. All right, man. Well, Anson, last thing before we let you go, we'll get into the famous four here in a second, but the last question before then. Tell us

real quickly about the book you wrote and this book club thing, just a little bit about that. We mentioned it during the quick tip in the beginning, but just real quick now. What's going on with this thing? Yeah. So, I mean, the book, the book itself is just all about finding deals, finding and funding deals. So it gets you from zero to the closing table. Like, I don't care if you want to flip it, if you want to wholesale it, rent it. I don't care what you do with it. It gets you from, you know, from zero to the closing table. And so everything that we talked about, whether it's marketing, negotiation, market analysis, funding, different types, different deal analysis. So if you're wholesaling or flipping or renting, there's different ways to analyze that.

and even through repairs and an ARV and all that fun stuff. So it gets you from zero to the end. And then what you do with it from there is up to you. But yeah, the book club is pretty exciting. It sounds like this is a brand new thing that you guys are doing. And so basically you're going to host a Q&A session on February 11th, I believe.

Yep. And it's all about finding and funding great deals. And if you want to go to biggerpockets.com slash anson, A-N-S-O-N. you'll find out all the information you need to know right there. All right. Well, thanks, dude. I'm looking forward to it. With that said, let's get into the next segment.

The last segment of the show, it's called our Famous Four. Let's go through the Famous Four. We've asked you these three times before because you've been on the show three times before this anthem. But number four, maybe they've changed. Number one. Actually, before we get into the Famous Four, though, let's hear what's going on this week around the Bigger Pockets Podcast Network. Hey, guys, it's Ashley from the Real Estate Rookie podcast. Last week, we had on Rich Kelly.

He's done four deals and used four different types of. of financing, hard money, 203K loan, 401k loan, and a commercial loan. If you guys want to learn about these, go back and listen to last week's episode. All right, Anston, famous for number one. What's your current favorite or all-time favorite or life-changing favorite real estate-related book other than finding and funding great deals, which you wrote, other than that one? Other than that one? I'm going to say I'm really enjoying, I don't read a lot of real estate books.

But my new favorite is Ken Korsini's book because then I get to. to actually look at other people's favorite deals and life-changing deals inside of there. And so it's kind of like a podcast and a book form. I can pull it out, read one chapter and get some really good information. I'm not trying to promote just BP stuff. But I honestly don't look at a lot of real estate books, but that's my favorite one right now. Cool. Profit like the pros, Ken Korsini.

Yeah, that was a good good book. And my face is on the front cover in a drawing. And it's beautiful. It's the best you've ever looked. I love it. Let's see. Next question, David. What is your favorite business book?

My favorite business book right now is extreme ownership by Jukko Willink. Wow. I wasn't expecting it to be, but I was listening to it on audio, and it punched me in the gut so many times that I felt like I just got done rolling with a jihitsu master, which he is. But yeah, I felt very beat up at the end of that book. That's just because it's a lot of things I need to work on. So I love that book. It's beautiful. And you know, when you talk to Jocko, he leaves you with that same feeling, honestly.

When you're in his presence, you're very aware of your own mortality. Yeah, and insufficiencies. But you don't feel bad about it. You just want to be better. He's got this perfect aura. And when you read that book, it definitely is just one of my favorite books I've ever read. I love it. Brandon and I talk about it.

all the time. Yeah. Yeah, Jock was a good dude. And we interviewed on our show back on episode 365. So Jocko 365, we talked about real estate investing among other things in that show. And he, yeah, I think it's one of my favorite shows. You got to listen to it and look for the chicken bone method. The chicken bone method. He's the only person that we've ever interviewed that uses that method. I'm not going to tell them. They can go listen to it. All right. Next question, Anson. What are some of your hobbies? Hobbies are kind of like still outdoor stuff. I love to hike, outside this summer we picked up paddle boarding to add to that. And so we did that pretty much

the whole summer because what else was there to do during kind of a quarantine time. But it's great because the reservoir is sparse and we can go paddle around and not bump into anybody. So it was perfect. Very cool. All right. Last question of the day. What do you think separate successful real estate investors from those who give up, fail or never get started? I'm going to say, and it's another favorite book of mine, but grit. So having grit in, and that, that means that you're willing to stick with it, even when it gets hard, even when it gets tough, even when, you know, you kind of maybe lose faith in what you're doing. But sticking with it through the hardest times of real estate, and it's not always easy. It's not always sunshine and rainbows. It's not always Maui, Hawaii.

It does get difficult and it does get tough, but sticking with it, getting up the next day to, you know, kind of roll with the punches and keep going at it will set you apart from, you know, 90% of your competition. And so whether that's through marketing or, you know, getting hit on a property, whatever it is, that grit to keep going, even when it gets tough, I think sets you apart 100%. Awesome. 100% agree. All right, Hansen. Thank you very much. Where can people find out more about you? If you want to find me on bigger pockets and send me a message, you can contact me there or just look at, you know, look at the author page there and, you know, get to know me a little bit better there, but that's the best way to get to know me better and

contact me. All right. Well, thanks, dude. Appreciate having you on your show again. Every time we talk, I always come away like, oh, man, Anson's so smart. There's a lot of things I should be doing that I'm not doing. So once again, thank you for enlightening us. But good luck to you, man.

Thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate it, Anson. This is David Green for Hansa Manson Young and Brandon Rip Curl Turner. Signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the height, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online.

Thank you all for listening to the BiggerPockets. Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K. Copywriting is by Calico content, and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.w.w.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk. So use your

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