BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 441: House Hacking as an NFL Player? How Former Tight End Hakeem Valles Grew His Real Estate Portfolio

Episode Date: February 7, 2021

When most people think of professional athletes, they usually think of superstars being paid millions every month (or even every week). Most people don’t come to realize that for everyone on an NFL team, that pay grade isn’t as high. That too, is what Hakeem Valles found out after being signed on by the Cardinals. Hakeem wasn’t making a lot, and realized that he was essentially throwing away $2,000 a month on rent. After one season with the team, he decided to go on BiggerPockets and ask around for agents and leads in the area. Hakeem ended up with a LOT of responses and found a great agent who helped him close on a fourplex, which he house hacked while practicing with the team. It’s hard enough to house hack when your tenants know you’re the owner, but it can be even harder when your tenants know you’re an NFL player. Hakeem’s advice: be a tenant of your own property and don’t let the other tenants know that you own the place. Doing this can help reduce some awkward encounters you may have. After retiring, Hakeem went on to do bigger real estate deals and partnered up on a 40 acre farm! He also owns Perspective Global Media, where he counsels other real estate professionals on how to grow their reach through social media platforms like TikTok and LinkedIn. Hakeem drops some gems towards the end of this episode on how you too can use TikTok to gain followers, clients, and partners! In This Episode We Cover: Why even professional athletes need to have multiple streams of income How a shocking event in Hakeem’s life changed his outlook forever Fighting income creep and keeping expenses low When renting does and doesn’t make sense for your financial situation The biggest mistake Hakeem made when living in his fourplex How to fight the fear of getting into real estate (and making mistakes) Using social media to leverage your personal brand and grow followers and clients And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Podcast BiggerPockets book store Books Mentioned in this Show: Rental Property Investing by Brandon Turner The Go-Giver by Bob burg The 1 Thing by Gary Keller Click here to check the full show notes: https://www.biggerpockets.com/show441 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 441. And I credit overcoming that traumatic experience is why and who I am today. Like, not a day goes by where I don't think about it, but it allows me to frame my day to day against gratitude. Like, you could lose a deal. It doesn't matter. You could get cut from a team. It doesn't matter. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio.

Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on? I'm going on. It's Brandon Turner,

host of the Bigger Pockets podcast here in the Seashed with my friend, Mr. David Green, joining me in the Seashed live in Hawaii. What's up, man? Well, the weather is beautiful. It is. The guest was awesome. The conversation was stupendous.

And I feel like this podcast is going to, make a lot of our listeners some money. So I'm in a pretty good mood. Oh, right. Good. Yeah, so every time I went to with an amazing dude named Hakeem. He was an NFL player. Let me get his last name right because I don't want to completely butchre. Valis. Valis or Vali, the Valas. Valis. Okay, we're going to go with Valis. Hakim Valis. Hakim was an NFL player who got really into real estate investing as well as business. He does both real estate. He has some other really interesting farming activities. We'll leave it at that. You'll figure what that means later. He runs a,

social media consulting business. And it's just super like mindset solid. Like he just gets it. And everything we talked about today, like was so, like I felt like we can make a t-shirt and a book out of every topic today. We make that joke later on in today's show. So you're going to love it. But before we get there, let's get to today's quick tip.

All right, today's quick tip is brought to you by David Green. Go. You know what I was going to do it. Today's quick tip is to think about real estate from a business perspective. Okay, it's easy to think real estate is a one-size-fits-all thing. I buy a house, I rent it out, I repeat. And that does work. However, there's many ways you can make money with real estate. There's buying commercial buildings and renting out part of it to yourself and part of it's of other people. There's buying a house that you live in and rent out the rooms, but you operate a business from your house. There's a lot more options and people tend to think about. And Hakeem has really kind of nailed that. He understands how to look at an asset and say, what's its highest and best use? How do I take advantage of it? I think there's a lot of creative people that are not using their creativity. when it comes to how to use the asset that we're talking about. So as you listen to this, as you think about your plans, ask yourself, what else could I use this property for other than just renting it out in a residential way?

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All right, Hakeem, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast. Man, it is amazing to have you here. How are you doing? I'm doing great, Brandon. I'm excited to be here on the show. Good. Well, I'm pumped to talk to you. I'm always pumped to talk about professional athletes. I mean, they're just cool people. But you've got kind of a cool story, and I've been digging a little bit, and we're excited to kind of introduce you to the Bigger Pockets world.

So why don't we start at the very beginning? beginning. And how did you get into real estate? Like, why real estate? What was your entry? I think it takes it, you know, I was always just that lifelong entrepreneur kid and my uncle had properties when I was like super, super young and I was cutting grass at one of his properties. And I thought that was like the coolest thing in the world. And once I made it to college, I would figure, you know, I wanted to get into real estate. And Mom at the University was one of the few schools in the country that actually offered a degree in business with a concentration in real estate. And so that was my major. And by my sophomore year, the girl I was dating,

her dad had just started a house flipping business. And I honestly called it. It was a real life, rich dad, poor dad relationship. It was like my schooling education was like poor dad. I was learning how to be an employee at a big Marcus Miller chap, CBRE type of company. And then in real life, my rich dad or my ex's dad was, we were in the field every day. I was putting in offers on pre-foreclosures. I handwrote our direct mail pieces. You know, I was knocking down walls, putting down floors. One time I hired a couple of my teammates to come up because we were putting a master bedroom in an attic and the stairwell wouldn't fit through the front door, but it'd fit

through like a second floor window. So we had to actually like, you know, lift the stairwell through a second floor window. But that's where kind of my itch started. You know, in over about a three year period, we flipped around 10 houses. But when me and his daughter broke up that, relationship kind of abruptly ended. So then the flipping business went, went

away. Yeah. It's surprisingly enough. Actually, right before he broke up, he literally just started to offer me equity into this business. It was yeah, and I messed up too. You messed. How'd you mess up? We don't need to get into that. You can't say that. You can't say that without

I think he should have the right to be able to leave that. Hakeem, don't worry about that question. I did, I did, I did think about that scene in friends where they're trying to move the couch up the stairs when you're describing. Have you guys seen that one? No. I don't watch trashy shows.

Actually, no, I have seen that episode. Where Ross keeps saying pivot and they're trying to get the couch up the stairs. That's a really funny. It's a mess. But yes, that's exactly what it was like. But we were able to do it from outside, which was probably an insurance nightmare. But it worked. Someday they'll make an all-state commercial.

That's awesome. But basically, you've got the real estate bug, right? And once you get it, we all know who have it. What it's like is you're not going to stop. It's going to take whatever it takes to get there. And something I think about your personality from what we know about you so far is that you are definitely the type who once you set your mind to doing something, it's going to happen. Do you mind sharing a little bit about your background with how you got into the NFL, basically like how you got into college and then how you transitioned that into the NFL and then what you did when you got there? Absolutely.

So my background, even as an athlete, you know, I was a bench player. Like in college, like literally did not get my first catch until my senior year at Mom at the University. I made move from wide receiver to tight end. The only reason why I made the move is because I knew I wasn't going to be granted a fifth year, which would allow me to get an NBA for free if I didn't actually play. Like, they're not going to pay for a fifth year because I was on scholarship for my four years. But I obviously redshirted my freshman year because I was a bench player and moved to tight end. First game, I had my first catch.

Second game had my first touchdown started every game after that. And that offseason, as soon as that college season ended, my little brother, first he got drafted because he dropped out of UVA as a sophomore, 20 years old and got drafted six round to the Oakland Raiders. And that was like the one motivator of, all right, that's my little brother. We used to share a bathtub. And if he can do it, I obviously can do it. If you can tie into the big brother doesn't want to get outshine by a little brother aspect of your brain, that's where you're going to become a superhuman.

Oh my gosh. That's a, that's a real life autopilot, like super drug of like no shot. Even though I have three touchdowns and 400 yards, I'm making it to the freaking NFL. And got granted a fifth year that offseason, but what really changed for me that offseason and what honestly changes my mindset moving forward with everything I do is that offseason, I actually went on a missionary trip to Haiti. And our mission was to give out medicine and different churches and orphanages across the country. And while we were there, essentially to make a long story short, our compound was ambushed by

eight guys with guns, they shot through the front door. I was shot at point blank range, hogtied, blindfolded, came to peace with the fact that I was dead. Like, it was a wildly traumatic experience that happened May 29th of 2015. And that happened on Thursday. Like Monday, we started grad school in like summer sessions of workouts for football for my next season. And like, I was a mess, you know, PTSD out of this world. And I credit overcoming that traumatic experience is why and who I am today. Like I, not a day goes by.

I don't think about it, but it allows me to frame my day to day against gratitude. Like, you could lose a deal. It doesn't matter. You could get cut from a team. It doesn't matter. If I'm working out and it's a hard workout, like it's not as bad as being tied up in a third world country. So it's a like once I got that mindset shift, it's easy for my mind to go there with any type of adversity and kind of bring me back to like back to center and back to like my true north. But that's what I credit to making it to the NFL and making it, you know, to the person who I am today.

Any advice you can share on how you switch that from a debilitating experience into an empowering one. Two things. One, therapy. You know, I say in 2020, mental health is the real flex.

You know, most people are looking like, if, like, if you can be cool in between your ears, like, if, like,

you figure out what your true north is, like, that's what's going to help you essentially get through everything. But therapy for me, like, when that happened, like, that's what helped me adjust and reframe that mindset.

that, but when you can just try and frame, I think everyone has not their version of that story, that's pretty extreme and intense, but I think we've all been to the bottom. I think in a 2020 world, a lot of us have been close towards the bottom, especially in a mental state, just considering, you know, what everything is like right now. I genuinely believe that if you can, you know, I meditate on things, but if you can meditate to the point of understanding that, for me, it's so simple of just like, oh, man, this client is pissed off and they just fired me. just lost $6,000 of Rev on a monthly basis, but it's like, I can still breathe, I can still

eat, my child is safe, and I'm still not dead. And like for me, like whatever your experience is, that's how I try and, like, I was talking to a group of college students last week. I'm just trying to challenge them. Like, we all have those moments. But if you can kind of, it's hard because we try and suppress everything that happens to us that's bad. But if you can kind of flip the switch and turn a bitter experience into something sweet that helps your mindset, it's super valuable for me. I feel like you need to write a book called I'm still not dead. And that would be that's going to be your book. I started writing a book.

But that's your book title right there. I like that. I'm still not dead. I'm going to credit you or something to that sort. There we go. I'm still not dead. That or our t-shirt would be a little bit easier. But I'm still a dead t-shirt.

Somebody's going to make a t-shirt of that and send it to you. I guarantee it. Now there's going to be like 50 people do it. That's a crazy story. Dude, like, I don't know. We can spend an hour just talking about that. But we'll go on to real estate. Man.

Got you. Wow. Okay. So you got into the NFL. You got you started to put who'd you start playing with? So I started off with the Arizona Cardinals. And from an NFL standpoint, I actually, I got to take you back six months to where bigger pockets actually comes into the picture. I found when I found you guys, I'll be honest with you. I was pissed off. Like, because I didn't find you three years earlier when I was actually in the dirt, handwriting direct mail letters doing stuff like looking for properties on Zillow. Like for hours on. on hours, on hours. I'm like not knowing all these different tactics or all this knowledge or information was out there. But when I started training for the NFL, I made the decision.

I've literally watched my little brother. When he was on the Oakland Raiders, he got cut from the Raiders and signed to the bills like overnight, but was still locked in for six months, like a $3,000 month lease and like 18 grand, like, poof, going to air. And I'm like, that can't happen to me if I make it. And when I make it to the NFL, I'm figuring out how to get involved in real estate, some way, some shape, some form. And that was when I found the podcast, like, super, super, super early days of the podcast. Like, I remember your Hawaii trip was like a journey that all of your

OG podcast followers, I'm sure followed you along that entire journey. But that's, I literally had 12 hour days of training and four to five hours of downtime every day. During that time, I listened to every single episode of your podcast, but then I also downloaded the audio books that every guest recommended, like during your famous four. and literally listen to the audio, but like for six months, no, January through April, four months straight. That's all I consumed. And I was like, whatever city I make it to, I'm doing real estate, made it to the Cardinals. It was 2016 in Phoenix. I'm like, this is a perfect city to do real estate in. But then quickly realized you don't get paid until September comes around.

And like, I also need to actually make the team. You know, a lot of people have a short cup of coffee in the NFL, meaning just April through September and not actually play. So I need to focus on making the team and then figure out what my angle was. was into real estate. Yeah. Okay. So I want to make a point here real quick about, because a lot of people are listening like, oh, NFL player, you know, you probably got drafted in making, you know, 40 million dollars a year the first year or 100 million dollars. You know, like, that's the numbers that we hear on the news. But what is it like, what does the average athlete like actually make when they get in? And like maybe for the people who are not familiar with the sport world. Like, how does that work?

I mean, like a lot of people get drafted. Only some of them end up playing and some of them only make a little bit of money. Like, what's that like? A hundred percent. So it's when you, get in in April. So for me, for example, I went as an undrafted priority free agent. My signing bonus was $7,000, which was really like $4,000 after taxes. And I then had a stipend of everyone gets a stipend of you get your signing bonus. So if you're a first round draft pick, you're getting anywhere from $15 to $5 million as a signing bonus, like all the way until the seventh round, you're getting a $50,000 signing bonus. But then if you go undrafted, some people, they'll give a signing bonus because I had the decision to choose between teams as a priority free agent of what team wants to give me an actual contract.

But the Cardinals gave me a bonus to incite me to come there. $7,000 and then $1,000 a month until September. So this is April. And with that, you know, once you actually make the team, so you're on TV, you're doing all that type of stuff. People think you're living the life. And it's hilarious because there's some people who like now try and conform and fit into the guys. It's like there's a massive wealth gap in professional sports. And September comes around.

If you make the team, you're going to be making a minimum of $450,000 a year. But if you also make the practice squad, that's actually $110,000 a year. After taxes, after all of that, honestly, we can go into it, why most players go broke. And what the outside doesn't realize is most professions, people get paid 52 weeks out of the year. The NFL, unlike any other profession, unless it's a lottery winner, you're getting paid only 17 weeks out of a 52 week year. And when you're giving a 22, 23 year old who's never had a relationship with money, because of NCAA rules, they weren't hustling and flipping houses like me when they were in college, they've never had a relationship with money. So now you're giving that 22, 23 year old, $26,000 a week. it's very easy to spend $10,000 a week and think that you just save 16 and do that for 17 weeks

straight. And then January 1st comes around and you're making nothing, but you have those types of spending habits. But like there's just a massive wealth gap. A guy like me is making $26,000 a week. The guy the locker over for me is making $721,000 a week. And it's like the guy next to him is making $1.3 million a week. And it's just like when you see that and when you're in the same circles and you're going to the same places around the same crowd that's easy to conform into doing the wrong things. I would imagine, you know, that keeping up with the Joneses when you're in a locker room with the person making that much money versus you, how the pressure you feel, plus how quickly you burn through your $110,000 trying to keep up with the guy who's making $50 million.

It's real. I mean, it's, it's the realest thing you witness because people are, everyone wants to keep up, everyone wants to hang out. The most popular guys are also making the most money. So everyone wants to hang out with those guys as well. So it's like, damn now we're at the club who's paying now we're at dinner who's paying now we're at this place who's paying now it's but then it's just like this guy's wearing these these type of shoes like I've never I can't believe how much people spend on shoes shoes yes like if you ever heard of that Instagram account preachers I think it's preachers and sneakers I have so funny it's just it's just it's all they do is just take pictures of like of like preachers and then they show

pictures of their shoes and how much those shoes cost it's hilarious it's like 12,000 shoes that this, you know, pastor's wearing. It is wildly incredible. And watching that happen and then there's a lot of gambling that goes on in the locker rooms as well where it's like, I watch guys, one of my buddies, he was like same, same pay grade as me, went over to a gambling circle with like 400 bucks and turned it into 15 grand in 15 minutes. And literally, that's how he bought his first car.

Like when we were rookie, it was the craziest thing to witness like in, in first person. But the wealth gap, the wealth disparity is stack. And it's hard to for everyone to be on the same type of playing field because you got one guy who's making four grand a week because he's on the practice squad. Another guy making this much a week. And another guy, it's a lot. It's definitely a lot. Yeah. Well, let's take this and talk about it in terms of like people listen to show.

They might be thinking, well, I'm not an athlete. I don't have that problem. But let's be honest, right? Like, we all do the same thing. Right? Like, oh, look at that guy's got a really, he's got a new truck. I mean, I got a 1997 truck. I'd really like a new truck.

And so they go and, you know, up their lifestyle a little bit. We call it the income creep at bigger pockets. I wrote that in the book, you know, how to invest in real estate. I have about this income creep is like you just got to make a little bit more because that's what the next person does. And you spend that much money. Then you make a little bit more and you spend that money. And you're always trying to keep up the Jones.

So before I just, as a word of warning, you people listen to the show right now, don't just think, oh, NFL players. Like, look at them idiots that are trying to live this extra lifestyle. That's like we all do it just to different degrees, right? A hundred percent. I mean, 80 percent of America. lives paycheck to paycheck, whether they're making six figures or whether they're making minimum wage, it's so simple, not simple, it's so easy to slip into that type of gap. I mean,

you just think of, I just always think of, think of the lottery winner. No one feels bad for the lottery winner when they lose all their money or not feels bad. Everyone understands how or why it happens because someone who does not have financial literacy has now assumed a lot of money. And if you don't have financial literacy, you will inevitably go broke. It's so, man, but there's so many people that are going through the grind and they think they're doing something wrong because it's hard. I see this all the time. I've literally heard people say, I don't think God wants me to do this thing because there's obstacles that keep coming in my path. And I'm thinking like, okay, assuming that like God is good,

he would have to make it hard for you so you could carry the weight of what you're asking for. You know, like this applies to everything in nature. If you want to get a big body and you just go juice up on a ton of steroids and you can pump up your muscles really big, but your joints didn't actually keep up with it. It's only a matter of time before you're going to rip something and that big body's not going to be able to hold it. Wealth comes with weight. There's a gravity to that. That's why you see these people that come across money so quickly and they never keep it. Professional athletes, that's a good example of that. No one's trained them how to how to handle this incredible, I don't know what you want to call it, like having a great weapon that you've

never been trained how to use right. You're going to hurt people and you're going to hurt yourself with that. So when you're going through the grind, you got to be grateful for the grind. Because that, if you don't have it, and you're a great example of that. You're someone who, you weren't the first round draft pick that just stepped in there and said money was showered upon you and everybody was kissing your butt. Okay. So you, like, you had to work to get in there. You had to strategize how to get in there. You had to go through some bad experiences that unleashed a piece of you that you probably didn't know that you had that made it so you could do that. And you're the guy that if I could.

could buy stock in a human. I'm like, buy it in Hakeem right now. Where he's going, he's, he's ready to hold that weight. And I know there's so many people that have that toxic attitude that if it's hard, it wasn't meant to be that life should always be a downhill road. The wind should always be at your back. And the minute that the wind's blowing in your face, you should stop. It means you shouldn't do it. And in my experience, it's almost the opposite of that. When it's coming too easy, you should be very afraid because you're not going to have it for long. That's real. It's when you're most vulnerable is probably when it's when it is the most easiest is definitely when you're the most vulnerable. I feel like, oh, man, like I think the most issue, the biggest issue is that people haven't really developed

their true north. Like my true north is happiness. So like I don't need a million dollars a month. But if I'm happy and as long as my inner circle is happy, then I'm okay. But it allows me to now with everything I'm doing, be wildly patient because I don't like, I can work as hard as I can. I can set up my days to be as, you know, efficient as you want to be. But if you don't adjust your true north, if your true north is I need to make X amount a month. Like, I think people got it backwards when it comes to reverse engineering, you know, what their process and what their process is leading to. Because when you put, you know, money or objects or the next step on a pedestal, you know, the top is not that fun, if that makes sense. The process is which will look back on as to, damn, like, that's when it was, that was the best.

I'm sure the best, the greatest day is of probably this podcast with those super, super, super, super, super, super. for early days. Like, you guys are rock stars now. But the process, I think, is what we need to start putting on a pedestal. Yeah. Ooh. Put the process on a pedestal. Yeah. That was good. That's another book title. There's a lot of inspiration going on. We got a lot of books coming out of this. A lot of t-shirts being made. You can get them at bigger pockets.com slash book. No, t-shirt. I don't know where the store. Store. Maybe we have t-shirts there. I don't know. That's awesome. We'll make these t-shirts, but we need some t-shirts. All right. So let's get back to your story a little bit. So you decide you're in the NFL. You're, you're

making all this money. In Phoenix. Playing for the Cardinals. In Phoenix. Yeah. And the Cardinals is a baseball team. They are. They are St. Louis.

They are St. Louis. Isn't it weird that you took an animal as like innocent as a little red bird and said, we want to make that multiple teams mascots? I get why there's a lot of lions and bears. The Cardinal inspires fear to the hearts of bird watchers everywhere. All right. All right. So you are playing for the little red bird.

And you decided to get in a real estate. What did that journey look like? How did you get? What's your first deal that you did then? Yeah. So it was as soon as that season ended, literally I got to look back on the dates, but it's got to be anywhere from January 1st to January 3rd. Like we didn't make the playoffs.

And like the last game was New Year's Eve, I believe, against the Rams. And I literally put a post on bigger pockets in the tempi new member introduction forums saying, hi, my name's Hakeem Valas. I'm a tight end for the Arizona Cardinals, interested in multifamily real estate and house hacking, looking to learn more, networking with other like-minded investors. That's probably pretty close if someone wants to pull that up at some point and look at it for paid them. Like, that's exactly what I said.

And I 60, 70 people responded to that and all wanted to meet for coffee, all wanted to take me on their property tours. Half of them wanted me to pitch me some BS product or something to invest into. But it was, I literally spent January 3rd or 1st to mid-February every single day. I spent like four hours at the same start. Starbucks, like literally people rotating in and out and just like all these people just pouring value, bouncing ideas back and forth. And then I finally met my like investor slash realtor, which was awesome. Ryan Swan, he's unreal. He took me around like his property tour of Phoenix and

Tempe and, you know, got me set up on the MLS. And we got probably got set up in March, Marches had properties coming in and out, got pre-approved for an FHA loan. And, you know, I knew I was going to do a house hack. And it's so funny, it's something so small. I didn't really go foot on the gas. Like I was getting, I was getting all the pieces in place, but I was not executing until I actually talked to my dad about it. It seems like it's so small, but like I had to throw this in here because it was honestly, it was my unlock. I was doing everything. I just felt like until my dad's kind of like my superhero, like to me personally. And when I called him, I was like, dad, I didn't know what he was going to say because he's always, you know, making sure I'm doing the right thing. And he's, you know, making sure I'm doing

in the right things, whether it's investments, whether it's opportunities. But I like, you know, told him like, hey, dad, I'm doing, I'm trying to do some real estate. I think I'm in a house hack. I already got pre-approved. I already found the properties. I did like everything, but I wouldn't put the offer in until I had a conversation when I didn't tell him about anything that I was doing. Like literally head down for two and a half, three months. And then told him and he was like freaking out, like super excited. I was like, oh my gosh, he's excited too. Put the offer in. It was a back and forth process. We didn't get the first property put an offer in. But the, the The property we finally got was a $268,000 fourplex in North Phoenix.

I had to commute 55 minutes a day to the practice facility. I had Section 8 tenants living in the building with me. And I got to house hack a property. And it was my first property. It was, it was awesome. Did they know you were an NFL player when you made that mistake? I did not listen to you in your managing rental properties book. You and your wife wrote of hiding the fact that you.

I tried to hide it honestly at the beginning. beginning, what happened was my car was, like I had, I bought a used car, but I matted it out black. So it looked pretty cool. It looked like a, like a Batmobile, it was a Camaro. And people and like, I would come back from practice and I'd have my gear on. And a kid, like a kid ran up to me and like asked me about it. He told his mom that on top of that every morning, like when the bus came, all the kids would literally sit out. Like I was on the second floor of the floorplex with like 15 kids sitting out on the balcony, like waving at my ring camera.

Like all that type of stuff. It was like they knew how I was. And I would like talk to them through it. Sometimes I go out and sit out there with them. But that was honestly was the biggest mistake because that it didn't screw me long term. But it put so much stress on me in the long term. Like I should I looking in retrospect and I tell everyone that I give advice to just to house hacking or buying a fourplex is factor in property management. Act like you don't live there and literally just be a tenant of your own property because that one day when you decide to move or something happens is what exactly. actually happened with me was I was doing cash for keys with the tenant and that same week I mean honestly it was like everything came crashing down at once literally the mother my child and I we had a miscarriage which was awful it was terrible it was one of the hardest things the hardest thing I've ever been through

then I got cut from the cardinals after getting cut from the cardinals I was doing the cash for keys with the tenant as well very next day I get signed to the Detroit Lions and now I'm literally in a back it was a workout for the lines. I went to Detroit with a backpack. My mother, my child is dealing with all of the madness going back on in Phoenix. Plus, she just had the surgery from the miscarriage. And then that tenant who were doing cash for keys with, she tried to kill herself. And I literally get a call from her daughter saying, my mom tried to kill herself. I know she was, you know, moving out of the property, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'll help, you know, your fiancee helped move out the stuff of the property. We go into the property. I didn't even know

this. She had a dog living in a back room that knocked over a candle, room, room caught on fire. There's soot all over the, it was madness. But having to deal with the weight of all of that, plus moving to a completely new city, plus learning a completely new playbook, plus just the social dynamics. It's like going to a new school as a high school kid of, you know, like new team. And like all of that was so much weight. Like obviously I got through it. But man, I would recommend if you're going to house hack a four flex, get a property manager and act like you don't move there. Wow. Wow. All right. There are a few things that are interesting to unpack there. First of all, let's go back to, I want to go through, but talking to your

parents, why did that matter so much to your dad? Why did that matter so much to you? It was like, I was always an entrepreneur. Like, I was the kid, in college, I used to, I was the iPhone repair guy. Like, I fixed four iPhone fours a day. But like getting that, like, my dad's also, my dad's a former state trooper, but he also, he has an entrepreneur hustler type background. He used to be in New York city selling roses and flowers on Mother's Day and stuff like that. But getting that nod of approval, I don't know, but that chemical feeling that I can tell, like I can, like I'm thinking about it right now, it gives me goosebumps, like thinking about it of him, like being excited over the fact that I was about to make this jump into real estate. But I was also anticipating that he was going to

almost say be cautious and like slow down like you're doing too much because maybe subconsciously, I felt like I was doing a lot and should be just focusing on football. Once he said like, go, it was like I could care less about what anybody else says. Like, what that's 150% was going through my mind when that happened. That's cool, man. Brendan, have you had experiences where people realized who you were and knew you were managing the property and it made it harder? Well, many times. Yeah. But yeah, when I got started, I'd tell everybody, right? The reason I say today that you shouldn't do it is because it makes it an emotional decision later on. I mean, I had people like, I did people like when I wasn't home like tenants like angry tenants stop by pounded on my door going I talked to my wife

because they like were upset about we gave them a three day notice to pay rent you know because they didn't pay rent like things like that and then like me feeling bad for them and me thinking like oh I'm gonna see them up town later at the store that's going to be awkward I think it's self-awareness yeah it's all like I think if you're good at that I think you should do it I know I'm not good at that type of radical like and see David David is good at it I feel like you see your tenant at the store you'd be like, yeah, why didn't you pay me, man? I would try to make it so my tenant was more afraid of seeing me at the store than I was afraid of seeing that.

But what I love that you said is self-awareness. That is massively important in any business, especially real estate. If you know you're not good at it, just don't even start it. Just find the person that is good at it and double down on this stuff. Because I was literally, I mean, once the people knew I was on the Cardinals, like, then asking for two weeks later on rent, it's like, you're like a super jerk if you're not going to give me two weeks. You know what I mean?

So it was like, oh, yep. Self awareness is everything. Yeah, I mean, you learn that on a football team. A football team is designed to operate at peak performance it possibly can.

You could save money having your linebackers kick field goals. None of them do that. You just pay the same guy to do both jobs. You get a specialist to be a linebacker versus a defensive end versus a safety. And then even amongst the linebackers, you have specified types. You've got a middle linebacker. You've got an outside linebacker.

Like, if that's how the best teams in the world run their stuff, we should be mimicking that same philosophy with our own business. That's very real. That's a really good point. Another question for you. I want to get on with the fourplex of what came next here. But I want to tell a quick story and then related to yours and ask you a question about it.

I was at Costco yesterday shopping at Costco. And some guy, you know, we're all wearing masks, whatever. But some guy comes up, he's like, hey, you're brandy from bigger pockets. I'm like, yeah, I am. And I said, you know, you live here. He said, yeah, it lives on Maui. Because we have a lot of tourists that come through, obviously. And he's like, yeah, I live here.

And he said, we started chatting for a little bit. He goes, yeah, I do jujitsu. I do Brazilian jiu jitsu. I just got my black belt. And I said, that's awesome, man. I do jiu-jitsu as well. I just got my white belt. It was like a joke, right?

And he said these words that, like, I feel like it's another book title. He said, and maybe this is like a thing I don't know about in the world, but he said, yeah, man, the white belt's the hardest belt. And I was like, oh, that's so good. The white belt is the hardest belt. In other words, like, just getting there the first time is the hardest thing. The white belt, and it is the hardest belt, which is now going to be a, book title.

But, like that. Yeah, isn't that good? But so like, getting that first deal is the hardest deal. Yeah.

Right? The first deal is the hardest deal. How did you, why are you different? A lot of people talk about real estate, want to get into it. A lot of people would listen to this show now for one year,

two years, five years. They've not yet taken action. Why were you like, you know what? I'm doing it. I'm in. I think one,

it definitely helped witnessing my brother and what he went through. I knew I didn't want that to happen. And then I was paying, to mitigate that happening to myself of being locked into a lease, I was paying two grand a month to live in an apartment, like month to month. And I'm like, man, I just did the math.

Like math is my favorite subject always. And I was going to spend 24 grand that year on air. And I'm like, hmm, now doing the math of this $268,000 fourplex, three and a half percent of that was like 9,000. I was like, I can put down even more. And still I'm going to save money and have an. asset that I can sell years later for more money. And it was just like that being logical, impractical. And then my thesis is shoot first and aim later. Like just like the white belt's the

hardest belt. I think once you get that momentum going, once you get it going, like it's just like a snowball. Like when you try and build a snowball, it's hard to build the base. Like I was me and I was in Jersey this past weekend with my daughter and we're trying to build a snowman. I just remember like once you got the base of it going, once you start to roll it, it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. That momentum. Momentum is is everything. And my, I tell. I tell. everyone is like you say everything you're trying to do about getting into real estate. You say you want a house hack. You're saying you want to do all of that. You still haven't gotten pre-approved for your FHA loan. Like that is a 15-minute conversation. Go do it. And like that's where it's, if you're not doing that,

then let's have a deeper conversation as to why you're not. Maybe you're not ready. Maybe you're not educated. Maybe you don't really want to do real estate. Maybe you see everyone else doing real estate. And you think it's the cool thing to do now. And that's why you're hopping into it. But you're not confident that you're going to be successful in it. I genuinely think it's a do. Shoot first, aim later. Well, I think it's the same thing that keeps me from getting into like a jujitsu gym, right? I don't want to show up on my own, not knowing anybody, not knowing what I don't know, but you go with a friend completely different. I go with you to the jujitsu gym or I work out with your person. It's way different. So if you're in that spot that Hakeem's talking about,

trying to figure out, well, I'm just scared to even call the lender. Find a friend who's done it, have them make an introduction call and have them just sit on the call with you. So would you like, I'm too scared to ask this person the question. Well, whisper it to your friend and your friend can whisper it. Get that momentum going. Because I think, Hakeem, what you're mentioning when you're talking about building momentum, I don't know that in today's environment, there is a better way to do it than house hacking. I just, I help so many people getting started in the Bay Area with house hacking, because it's massive to building momentum. You get in for stupid low down payment. You're going to get a better interest rate. You're already spending money on rent. That's another thing people don't realize.

That $2,000 a month that you mentioned is just dead weight. You're getting nothing for that. and it's dead weight that increases every single year. Your rents are going to go up. You get into buying a house, not only does you take that $2,000 a month that you were spending on rent that you can actually include it as income in what you're doing, right?

It makes your ROI projections skyrocket when you do that. And it's even better than income because you're not getting taxed on it like it was normal income. But it's $2,000 you were spending and now you're not. That's better than making $2,000 that you would then get taxed on. And then every year, that $2,000, that you're now getting paid by the tenant,

it's going up for you when it was going up on you. So you're getting like a double win. And then you move out and then you can rent out that space and now you're making, there is hardly any way to make an argument against house hacking other than it's less convenient. That's it. That's the only thing that you're giving up to do this. So if a guy in the NFL can house hack, I don't see who doesn't have, who can possibly make an argument against it. It's very true. And it's, I didn't spend millions of dollars. I could have spent $13,000 and never paid a dollar again. Every repair funded itself. Everything funded itself and then sold it years later.

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome, man. Really good stuff. I mean, to kind of summarize three quick points here, I feel like this could be like maybe a YouTube video we make eventually someday or a whole solo show. But like why do people not get started? Like, why do they not take that first step? Why, why does a fear stop people? I'm just kind of lay out three things we just said. Number one, I wrote down here. Start small. So house hacking is what you did. It's a very easy thing to do. It's a very slow transition. So House Hagen is a good way to start. It could be also I'm going to partner with somebody on a real estate deal. I'm going to invest in somebody else's, you know, fund or I'm going to be a private lender to them.

I'm going to, you know, just find little ways to like floss one tooth. You've heard that analogy, right? If you want to get in a habit of flossing every day, floss one tooth, it's like a little thing, little step. And number two, so that's first thing that's small. Number two is take a friend with you or partner with somebody. Like find a way to do that. Just going, what you said about jiu-jitsu, right? When you and I do it together, it was a lot easier.

And then number three is the most, what I call. min's most important next step, which is just identify what that next thing is. And Hakeem, you just mentioned that a second ago, how you like, it's a 15 minute conversation to get pre-approved. But most people just, they have not defined what that next step is. And as soon as you define what the very, like the most important next step, this is a big part of the whole intention journal thing we sell bigger pockets is like every day, like what's the goal? Oh, yeah, you got it right there in your hands. Yeah, every day. Like, what do you, what's the goal? What's your objective? What's the next big thing, like the weekly objective?

And then what is the most important next step? Like is it picking up the phone and calling a lender? Is it is it going to Facebook and saying, hey, does anybody know a good lender? Or is it calling up a real estate investor friend and say, hey, I need a lender? I mean, it's literally a five minute. In fact, I would say there's like most tasks in life can be boiled down to a five minute or less like thing. Like it's a series of five minute tasks and that's it. And so those three things, the overcoming fear is to start small, take a friend with you or do it with somebody and then that identify what the most important next step is.

three things that kind of pulled out of your story. Howkey, anything you want to add to that? I love that. And I think something that helped me, honestly, with reverse engineering things like that. I don't know if you've had them on the show or not,

but the one thing. I know you guys have recommended that so many times on the show. Yeah, we had Jay back on a little while ago. Yeah. Such a great concept of reverse engineering things to simplify. We have these, okay, I'm going to buy a fourplex.

That seems like a daunting task. But putting out a Facebook post saying, who knows a lender takes, you could do it while you're pooping. Like, it's not that hard. Or you could just email like me or message me and I'll say, hey, this is the lender ad used. There's so many easy ways to get started. Yeah, especially when it comes to that.

Yeah, people totally overthink this whole real estate. I think that's hard. So maybe like, you know, we've been talking about, we covered a lot of stuff today. But I want to make sure people at least get an idea of your like overall journey through real estate now. So what came next? Like what the next few years up to today look like? Yeah. So from there, I told you I went to the Detroit Lions and same exact thing happened.

They had me in an extended stay hotel in, Detroit. And I quickly realized that, you know, it was did the math. It was like $2,200 a month of paying daily, because you could pay rent by the day there because I didn't know how long I was going to be in Detroit. Then realize I was going to be there. Actually, I didn't realize I was going to be there for a long time. Crazy thing happened. First, I put out the post on bigger pockets of, you know, same, like probably exactly how that Arizona message looked, want to house hack here in Detroit, any brokers, any whoever 30, 40, 50 people respond. it met with all of them, went to all their meetup groups, did all that type of stuff,

and finally found a broker who was also an investor, found a duplex about 10 minutes from the practice facility and lived in one side and Airbnb the other side. The rent in that market wasn't going to work to actually counter the mortgage, but Airbnb brought in significantly enough more because it was more or less longer term tenants like two to three weeks at a time of people staying there. And with Airbnb, if people are on there, you can sometimes bang out a nice a better price by doing that and it's a lot less of a headache of the daily constant changing of the sheets and all that type of stuff. So we bought a duplex out there and it was crazy because I bought that, I closed on that property on a Tuesday and on Friday of that week, the Arizona Cardinals,

so just left the Cardinals was on the Lions. Somebody just got hurt on the Cardinals on a Thursday night football game. Very next morning, I literally got out of meetings and I got like 10 calls from my agent saying, hey, the Cardinals want to sign you to bring you back on the team on the 53 man because I was on the practice squad on the Lions and teams can poach you. but some GMs give you the opportunity to say no and you can negotiate to see if you can get a higher salary. I mean, I just close on this property on Tuesday and I'm like, man, like it's like I can obviously make it work without, you know, but I want to make this. I want to see this through. And I really loved my situation in Detroit. My agent was able to negotiate a 53 man salary while I stayed on the practice squad, which is super nice.

And allowed me to, you know, kind of play that whole opportunity. So that's one reason you want to have long distance real estate investing in your back pocket. because you never know. You may not even plan on buying somewhere else, but you may buy somewhere and have to move somewhere else and the principles are the same. And as you were talking, I thought, you know what this sounds like to me is a lot of the time I'll make an offer on something for myself or we'll do it for a client and we'll lose. Someone else will get the deal. And we always make a task in our CRM to remind us once a week to call that agent and say, hey, are you still in contract? And 15, 20% of the time I'd say that like they fall out unless it's a super hot house.

and we are the first person to get that phone call. That's the same thing that happened with you, Hakeem. That's funny. Right? Like you were on the Cardinals. They let you go. Someone gets hurt. Get that guy back here.

We need him right now. Like you could be that person where we're supposed to close. The buyer's just backed out. What are we going to do? And they come back to you. And you're like, yeah, I can close in two weeks. Can you guys knock 25 grand off the price? And at that point, that may make sense to them to do.

So don't give up when you get cut. Don't give up when you don't get that deal. It doesn't hurt you to come up with a plan and say, well, let me just call that agent every week and see if there's any trouble in paradise. That's real. That's super real. All right. So what next thing?

So you did not end up going back to Arizona. Did not go back to Arizona. Stayed in Detroit. Negotiated a higher salary in Detroit. It stayed there. That next upcoming off season, I bought a 40-acre cannabis farm in Michigan. Whoa. So we were hedging that cannabis was going to go wreck in November of 2018.

So this is early 20, This is like January, February, super early 2018. And it's so funny, it's back to those broker relationships that David was just mentioning. Somebody who I got into the cannabis space because of bigger pockets, like an introduction through bigger pockets. That same broker who sold me my duplex when I had my initial meeting with him. I always tell people, if you want to get into an industry, put it out in the universe, start talking about it. Don't act like you know what you're talking about, but just say you're interested in whatever you're interested in. And I told that broker at the time, like, hey, I'm super interested in the cannabis space.

I want to learn more about it. I know the real estate side of it's going to be very interesting as well. And I literally just out of the serendipity of it, I'll get a random call from him. And I just happened to be close to his office. And he was like, hey, I've got this, this cannabis guy here. If you'd love to sit down, you know, we'd love to chat and talk XYZ, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, wow, cool. And we sit down.

Everything kind of just makes a lot of sense. It was about a four hour conversation. And they needed to buy this land with cash because you just couldn't buy it with the more with our intentions being cannabis. And, you know, I wind up coming in as an investor on the group. And eight months later, when cannabis went wreck in Michigan, you know, we got an offer on that same patch of land for $7 million. And we decided, you know, we have all this leverage as investors. Like, why would we sell the land when we know what the opportunity can be? Because essentially you have the capacity to put 42, 20,000 square foot warehouses on the land and grow up to 2,000 plants within

in each warehouse. So we kind of saw it as a real estate play and have spent the last two and a half years, you know, torn the country of some of the best facilities in growers across the country to partner with and grow on our land. Crazy. I mean, we've never talked to cannabis here on the show before, really at all, like the, especially the real estate side of it. But how does that work in terms of like for those of us who are not familiar with the industry very much? I mean, like you have land. You grow it. Like, where's the money come from? How do you get paid? Do you sell Yeah, yeah. So we're literally in the process of breaking ground and development. Like right now, just got our site plan approved by the town. Essentially, it's multifaceted. Like you can get, like, we own 50% of the first company that's growing on our land. So that money that's coming in, like we're able to essentially with the market rate of what a triple net per that square foot of a space, we can get that an actual clean rental triple net type of money. And then the other 50%, the rest of the 50% of that money essentially will come in.

There's a lot of loopholes. I'm not a professional. I'm not an accountant. I'm not a cannabis account. You know, you got to put all those disclosures out there. A lot of loopholes with credit unions and things like that and how all the investors have to be a part of the same exact bank.

But we're looking long term. Like, yes, there's going to be a lot of revenues, a lot of cash flows to make out of this. You know, we've partnered with a private equity firm on the development side of it with the intentions of, you know, when we get our revenues to a certain level. And when it does go recreational nationwide, we plan on going and intend to go public. Wow. So why not? So what'd you buy it for? Half a million. And some of you wanted to offer you seven million. You said no. Explain that logic again. Like, why would you not take that and run? I want to know your long term thinking. Because one largest patch, one of the largest patch of the land of cannabis, of land that's

zoned for cannabis in Michigan. I mean, just the BPO we got on is every, for every warehouse we erect on the land, the value will go up by four million. And we've got the capacity to put 42 of them on there. And then when you're thinking when it goes recreational nationwide, that value is going to, I don't know what that X or that multiple is going to be, but it's going to be more than $7 million in that sense. And back to my initial comments is entrepreneurship is a forever game. And I've always been interested in the cannabis space. So I own a media agency now as well. And we do a couple of different things, but we're actually doing the digital side and the branding for the cannabis space. So it's super interesting to almost double dip.

And I'm an investor. Plus, we're now, like, I'm interested in the cannabis space in the industry and the different verticals and the opportunities that are within it. And real estate being able to be that initial avenue instead of just getting the land and cashing out a few months later, like that would have been a cool win. But now the opportunities, the introductions, the different brands that we're working with now and the people that we plan on working with in the space. like we have the leverage by owning the land. That makes sense. Yeah, it's kind of, it reminds you a little bit of like flipping houses versus like rental. Like you can flip a house or do and burr, right?

You can flip a house, make the, make the quick 30, 40, 50 grand. Yeah, I did it. Pay the government half their money in taxes and then you're done. Or you're like, you know what, I can do, I can burr this or I can hold it as a rental and then keep it for the next 40 years, 30 years, 50 years, 100 years. And it's going to help my family. It's going to help. I'm going to get contacts in industry.

I'm going to get to become a better investor. my skill sets getting up. So it's similar to the real estate. I mean, it is real estate, but it's similar to the small level of what you're doing on a large level just with the... 100%.

Yeah, what it makes, you're kind of combining business with real estate. And I think that's a mistake a lot of investors make is they just get at a single track. I'm going to buy a house, rent it out. I collect revenue in this one way.

There's nothing wrong with that. But you're getting into element now where we use the real estate to generate revenue through a business and you've got this hybrid where you become much more efficient. You have economies of scale. And you have more than one way

to earn revenue. So I think that that's a good thing to point out is there's ways to make money in real estate that are not just buy a building rented out to tenants, have a property manager move on to the next thing. That that's a great strategy. So a really easy way to get started and learn the business. But once you've got that down, there's so many possibilities that open up to you like this one. Absolutely. And that's exactly what's kind of come out of it. And it's been, like I said, it's been two and a half year journey now of like really navigating the space, meeting some of the biggest players in the space and now being.

presented even more opportunities in different markets that are also in the space, like potentially getting involved in New Jersey, potentially get involved in Massachusetts, potentially get involved in the whole bunch of different verticals and like just investment decks that I don't think I would even have the opportunities to see if I wasn't in the space, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Most investors spend more time chasing deals than reviewing their insurance. But a quick coverage check can be fast, easy, and one of these smartest ways to protect and even improve your property's cash flow.

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So what's your rest of your real estate look like? The rest of your journey. I mean, obviously, today's show is about a lot more than just real estate. But like, what's the rest of your investing story look like? And then I want to move on and ask you about the media business and I feel the things. Absolutely. So as soon as I retired from the league. So I retired from the NFL after, you know, I couldn't be the investor in an entrepreneur who I wanted to be. I had my daughter the morning of a game. And that really put things in perspective for me. And, you know, I couldn't be the dad that I really wanted to be. and play in the NFL at the same time. So I walked away just unemotionally, you know, soon as soon as the 2018 season ended, I walked away from the game and just tripled down onto what I wanted to do in the real estate space.

It was actually right when this came out. Oh, the attention journal? Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I bought that while I was playing for the Giants. And within 90 days, I actually bought my last property that I bought, which is a smaller seven-unit property in Des Moines, Iowa. It was a quick in and out type of property where we didn't actually make anything off of it. We actually wound up breaking even. We had a few issues kind of going in with the historical district and couldn't do the repairs that we needed to do.

It was like a super small, quick value add. And with the things that they wanted us to do, it was going to completely destroy our budget. So we wound up, we had prior relationships with other investors in that market who knew or what the best way to actually do what they could do with that property. and we wind up selling it off to them. And since then, I've been, from a real estate standpoint, I've been on the sidelines. I think that a lot of bold predictions are happening right now. I think we haven't seen the true residual effects yet of COVID. My thesis of what I want to do with real estate is raise capital to buy larger value

at apartment communities in different markets. But I don't, like back to what I said, I don't think the residual effect, like we just had our worst day in the United States every day. Like every day is the worst day so far. It hasn't slowed down. So the bolder predictions that come out every single day still do not logically make sense to me. And I'm a math guy. And like I said, like I've been saying, you know, real estate and entrepreneurship is a forever game. So if it's five years from now, it's the next time I deploy capital, I'm super okay with that. But if it's 12 to 18 months, I'm also okay with that. But I've been on the sidelines watching. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. And I don't disagree. I don't think we've seen any full of fight of the. of the COVID mess. I think that it's a crazy world and it's just going to get crazier here. So what I find interesting is that you're doing so many things

in terms of like the cannabis farm. You got some real estate stuff going on. You still have some properties, right? Yeah, still on the duplex and still own the cannabis farm. We sold the fourplex in July. Somebody was 10.30 one. And I couldn't say no to that offer.

I was surprised that I even got an offer that high. That's when I really knew. This is a damn seller's market right now. Yes. Yeah, it really is. So you're, you cash it on those ones. And then you got the media business. So let's talk what, what is that first of all? And then I want to ask you just how you manage that your whole world there. 100%. So it's perspective global media. One of my biggest regrets when I was playing in the NFL is I did, I was insecure. It was wildly insecure. Like the content, like no one knew I was buying properties. No one knew I was doing what I was doing in real estate. I was head down when if I just simply just documented what I was doing, I know it brought a lot of value. And the attention that would have been garnished that would have brought value to all the things that I'm doing today would have been wildly amplified. Do I regret it? You know, I could have got hit by a bus if I actually did it, you know, just considering how the universe works. But when I retired, I tripled down on my personal brand and got to quickly, quickly realize what the effects of it was. And what I did, you know, in real time, like October of 2019, I think when we started the LLC, but how I did it and where it's transitioned into what we do today, we started off just bringing value to real estate professionals, investors, and helping them with digital content, whether it was creating content for their LinkedIn, their Facebook, their Instagram, and running ads to whatever. realm they were working in. But I wanted to prove a thesis to myself that I could create an actual

event out of thin air by doing. So one of my best pieces of advice for everyone on this, does listen in this podcast. I don't think anybody's like really broadcast it out in the world right now. The best way to meet somebody in a 2020 digital world is sending a video via LinkedIn video message. Most people don't do that. Like that's my for my company, that's our number one sales metric is the people we want to meet CEOs, CMOs of some of the bigger companies. It's if you can get them to actually accept your connection request, if you actually say, hey, Brandon, love what you're doing. See you're crushing out of bigger pockets.

Notice you are on TikTok. Would love to show you a couple tactical things on how I could bring some value to your business. Because the rest of your inbox on LinkedIn is a bunch of copy paste BS and automated software of everyone trying to scale their thing, videos just, it's pattern disruption at scale. And it's just wildly incredible. So what I did was I sent 400 videos. to real estate professionals in Detroit and was able to get about 40 people to show up into

an event up at a wine spot in Detroit and presented my thesis on the digital state of real estate. And out of that event got about four clients to come out of it. As the journey kind of continued, this is October of 2019. COVID obviously came around by February Marchish. When COVID came around, we actually made a pivot and actually started to do podcast production work for real estate professionals and financial advisors. I realized personally that one of my best piece of advice is for people for getting started in real estate outside of going on bigger pockets and making action happen is starting a podcast.

I like podcasts for the networking effect and the effect of everyone has a story and no one's listening. And when you're the person who actually provides a platform, that person tends to love you forever. I say you're not going to be the next Joe Rogan, the next Gary Vee, the next. next bigger pockets of the podcast space. But if you want to learn how to invest in and buy apartment buildings in Phoenix, Arizona, it will be wise for you to start a podcast and interview every single developer in Phoenix, Arizona, because it's going to be 10 times harder for you,

especially in a COVID world to sit down for coffee, walk their properties. But hopping on a Zoom call for 15 minutes, it's the not so invasive way of picking someone's brain. People don't like to get their brain picked. People don't like to get a message saying, hey, Brandon, love what you're doing in real estate. I love to pick your brain over coffee. Probably not going to happen. But if that same person maybe said, hey, Brandon, I've got this show called the Hawaii Real Estate Network. I'd love to have you come and tell your story about the things that you're doing. Like, that person has a 50% more of a chance of actually sitting down with you. And I, from a tactical standpoint, that's what I was hacking and reverse engineering. And that's what we were providing as a service as a media company.

Well, I'll just wrap the podcast thing. Then with this is like the reason why is because when you have a podcast, you are now providing value. Because they're like, I want to take you out to coffee and I want like the only value you're providing is a $3 cup of coffee. I want you to be on my podcast so that you can tell your story. Now you're providing ego building. You're providing the ability for them to raise money, them to find, you know, connect with people to bring them deals potentially. So by bringing people onto a podcast, yeah, you're providing actual real value and. it's just kind of cool and unique.

Like most people are not invited to be a guest on a podcast. Like it's not a very common thing. And so when there's that, and again, we're not talking about trying to like land, you know, Grant Cardone or Hakeem here on a podcast. It's like,

hey, that guy that owns that apartment building down there. He's been doing it now for the last 12 years in this town. He owns 200 units. Like, get that guy on a podcast, especially like go do it in his garage. Maybe you'll set up everything.

I think that's an interesting, like, strategy. I'm actually trying to get Jim Carrey right now. He lives. Well, Jim Carrey and Adam Sandler both live within a mile of me. And I'm like, I will come to your house.

I will set up in your studio. You can come down in your underwear. I don't care. We'll do that easy. Yeah, working on it. If anybody knows either those two guys, let me know. But yeah, I think there's such value there and building relationships and connections with people.

A hundred percent. It's a way to exponentially grow your network by just asking the questions that you genuinely want to know. But that's what we were essentially reverse engineering. But being self-aware, in order to produce a lot of podcasts at scale, I had to hire a lot of people and I felt like I was becoming an HR rep and micromanaging every stage of the podcast production company and not doing what I do best. But at that same exact time, I was actually starting to post a lot on TikTok as a platform. And as I was posting on TikTok, testing out a bunch

of different thesis is what's working in every single niche. I slowly started to realize, one, I really liked it. But two, I was every single person in my network, every, like, that was my business value I could bring to anyone. And quickly, but surely, I was, on an hour, like three one hour Zoom calls a day showing other pro athletes, other real estate people, other startup founders, business people, just how to get going and get going on TikTok. And just after having a serious combo with my admins, I made a pivot. That's one thing I'm not scared to do is pivot as a business. And one became much smaller.

And now we focus on TikTok consulting. So we work with larger brands to smaller individuals on helping them launch on TikTok and get, you know, going on TikTok, whether it's from just strategy or some people, we actually do the actual talent and post-produce and put out all their content on their, on their TikTok account. But yeah, it sounds wild. It sounds crazy. But man, TikTok, I just started an internal podcast with my, with my company called Don't Sleep on TikTok. That's probably my favorite thing to say to everyone right now is don't sleep on TikTok. Yeah. Yeah, I'm, uh, to 2021 is my, I'm emerging in TikTok. People have been hearing it here on the podcast forever that. I keep like,

joking about it. And then I was like, I'm not going to do it. And then I'm like, I'm going to sell it from my phone. But just because I don't want to be obsessed with scrolling for hours at a time, doesn't mean I shouldn't be posting and reaching people. And so I'm going to be hot and heavy. I wouldn't consume though. So I my, my only piece of advice for TikTok is take five to 10 hours, only consume real estate content on TikTok and then never consume again. Understand the niches, the nuances, the ins and outs of what matters, what the context, like how do I post contextually to TikTok? It's like my first six months on TikTok, I did terrible. I went from zero to 55 followers by posting my best content from LinkedIn and Instagram,

just downloading and uploading. I never watched anything. Just download, upload, doing terrible. And then I took five to 10 hours, understood the ins and outs of like real estate, sports and an entrepreneur type of content. Then a month,

I went from 55 to 82,000 followers. And like, what's the secret there? I mean, let's do some consultant right now, Hakeem. I want to grow my, I got,

I got, I think, 100 followers on TikTok right now. And I want to grow this. Now, The reason why, let me just first say for the people like, I don't care about this thing. The reason why is a couple reasons. One, it's fun to just teach people stuff.

Two, that is, I wish I would have been on Instagram earlier. And today, I've raised $20 million in the past year and a half. And a lot of people listening right now are in my fund. But the reason why I've been able to do that is because of TikTok. Because I can, I can, I can, Jeff, I'm sorry, sorry, Instagram. So I did it through Instagram. But what could I have done if I had a million followers on Instagram right now versus having 170,000? I would be 10 times or whatever, I don't know, five times more ability to raise money to find

people to work in my teams, to find deals for me. I mean, we have the whole bring brand and a deal thing. So in other words, I harness Instagram very heavy right now. And it's been a game changer for me. And I wish I would have started on Instagram earlier. And I believe TikTok is the next Instagram. And if it is, I need to build that up. So that's just, if you're listening, if you're listening to is going, I don't care about

TikTok, I'm going to turn off this podcast now. There's a reason why, like the logical reason why this might be, worth listening to. So that said, do you agree, first of all, anything you want to add to that? And then what do I do? The biggest punchline is I shouldn't have more TikTok followers than you have on Instagram right now. I think you're way bigger than, like that, that's the number one punchline. But two is the like I see TikTok as real estate. As real estate investors, if we all could be put in a time machine and go to the 1930s and we're now in New York City and you have the opportunity to buy New York City real estate in 1930s, you're emptying your bank account. You're borrowing your

money from your parents and you're buying it all. But I'm telling you this is the same opportunity except this real estate is free. And I, if I'm posting about real estate, I'm taking away your market share of being the Brandon Turner of TikTok, if that makes sense. And the beauty of TikTok is there's 100 million daily active users just here in the States. 40% are over the age of 25. And now after having this internal podcast with my company called Don't Sleep on TikTok, it's given me contextual spots of what's working in different niches. We had a guy come on last week who's a financial advisor and he sells a compound interest life insurance type of product. He is legitimately his revenue is going from $5 million to $30 million in this past year. And he's getting

a thousand inbound leads a week. And his average client is 39 years old investing $8,500 a year into their life insurance product annually. And he's literally hired 35 people. He spends nine hours a day now on TikTok because it's its most important KPI, like throughout his entire day. And like people are missing out on that opportunity because your target audience is there. The opportunity is no one's posting. I say audit your top 10, 20 friends who have a TikTok and audit how many are actually posting. When we think of algorithms is just supply and demand of eyes, how many eyes are on the platform consuming and how much content is being put in front of those eyes. And if you compare right now the data points of platform to platform to platform,

to platform, Facebook's daily average consumption time is 12 minutes a day, Instagram's daily average consumption time is 22 minutes a day, and TikTok's average daily consumption time is 85 minutes a day. And TikTok has an unlimited infinite 4U page. So that's where like the opportunity is that if you posted 15 times a day on Instagram, your followers are like, Brandon, what the hell are you doing? That's too much. You're clogging the pipes. TikTok, 80% of your content is being consumed on the 4U page. So if you can post five times a day, you should. If you can post 10 times a day, you should because you're like when I post five times versus two times a day, I'm ending the day with more followers than not. I can show you the data analytics of that.

Posted five times this day, 2,000 new followers today. Posted two times this day, 200 new followers today because you're putting your valuable content in front of more people. And when it comes to real estate. And when it comes to just TikTok as an algorithm, I was just on a call two weeks ago for the public figures strategically as a platform, TikTok has adjusted their algorithm to sway away from dancing. TikTok has been known, like, it's been generalized as a platform as why would I go there as much of teenagers dancing there? They did not want to be generalized as that and strategically adjusted their algorithm to focus more on informational, educational, and compelling storytelling type of content. I think that's hilarious. Like your job,

is to find all the dancers and downgrade their videos. I don't think there's nothing wrong with the dancing. I think that your 4-U page is going to look like whatever you consume. The thing that TikTok has done better than any platform is their algorithm has created this unlimited for-you stream of content that is so wildly tailored to the things that you like. So if you do watch four girls do dances and watch it from top to bottom, you're going to see a lot more of that in your infeed. If you watch real estate three times, four times, five times a day, that's what you're going to see all day in your infeed.

Which is exactly the danger of TikTok as a consumer we've been talking about is that it knows you and it knows exactly what you want. And it gives you amazing bits of that over and over and over an unlimited amount designed to hook you and keep you coming back and back. So that's the danger as a user and as a creator. It is a phenomenal tool. It's, I don't know if you remember five years ago and Instagram. Instagram when our timelines went from seeing everything in chronological order to then at the

snap of a finger, it literally went to stagnated type of content. That's the like the opportunity is right now we're in the phase of seeing everything in chronological order, like on Instagram when you can grow organically. What's going to happen in the next eight to 12 months when there is a mass exodus of people? Like there's already people here. A hundred million people at the third of the United States. Like it's happened. So there's no questioning that. But when everyone starts actually post. it. And people actually realize what's happening there. It's like my 220,000 followers are going to be more valuable a year from now than they are today, if that makes sense. It's just back to real estate. So let's say you're listening to the Bigger Pockets podcast. You don't really like that TikTok,

Snapchat stuff, but you hear Hakeem talking. He seems like a smart guy. Okay, maybe I'll give TikTok a chance. But I don't want to get stuck into watching dancing videos. How do they know who they should be following and what type of content is worth consuming if you want to learn about real estate? I would, the guys I follow is Mikey Taylor, former professional skater. Yeah. Check out his TikTok. He's got over $200,000. I just had him on my podcast.

He runs a private equity fund called commun capital. Someone who raises capital, model his style of content he's putting out, but also consume his content. He's a very smart dude knows what he's talking about when it comes to real estate. I would follow people within that type of realm. I would follow when Brandon starts posting his account. I put out maybe one every. three weeks, some type of real estate type of content. So I mean, I wouldn't follow me for real

estate. I'm not going to plug myself for that. But I genuinely believe that you type in hashtag real estate. One, learn for yourself because there's a lot of people on there who are doing really good who don't know what they're talking about. And that's another opportunity for guys like you, Brandon, like you, David, to like watch out real quick. The expert is here, essentially, because that's exactly what's going to happen when you guys come to the platform because everyone knows you on TikTok, but you're not there yet, if that makes sense. So that's why I was asking that question is if you're vulnerable because you don't know a ton about real estate and there's this really good looking 25 year old telling you I can teach you how to make millions. It quickly turns into I follow this person thinking I'm getting an education, but all you're getting put into is a funnel where someone's going to upsell you on some program. I like what you said is it shouldn't be the only place you go to for real estate investing. You kind of have to know a little bit about it outside of that and then find the people that are giving you the same type of education and content when you're there so that you're you don't get sucked into the, I bought a house and I rent out the rooms to my friends.

And now I'm a real estate God. And you should be following me and they're giving you bad advice. I would go as far as saying this. If you're a new investor, just consume on bigger pockets. I would use TikTok right now. I would say it's dangerous because that can happen very fast. It's more advantageous if you're a creator and you already are doing things or you're documenting your journey in the real estate space.

I would like TikTok. I only give advice that I take. I do not consume TikTok content. at all. Like zero, like the 15 seconds I have after I post a video and it's uploading is like the 15 seconds I'll consume before my video comes up and then I just live in the comments all day. And like I think that that's cool. Like, I don't consume like because of that danger of you will be, you will get put down a funnel. You will get sold some type of coaching product. But if you are a good genuine type of person, only that's between you and God at the end of the day, put out good

content because you're going to get found. I think it's an accelerant to the truth. It'll be an accelerant that you're a snake oil salesman or you're an accelerant that you're putting out valuable real estate content and give opportunities of people to actually work with you. Well, here's another reason why I think creating, again, people are probably listening to go, why would I, I'm not going to go raise a bunch of money necessarily right now. And I'm not, I'm not that good at talking on camera. But just to throw this out to people, like your ability to communicate, like everyone listening, your ability to communicate is like directly proportional to your level of success in life. I really, really believe that. Like people who are really, now, are there, are there people who are not going to communicate and that are successful?

Yes, of course. But by and large, people I know that are most successful tend to be good at communicating their points. They're not always wild and crazy like I might be on a TikTok video, but they can present their points in a way that makes sense. It gets other people on board. It gets people fired up. That's how you get employed.

It's how you get team members. You fire up people around you. It affects every area of your life from dating to real estate to business to whatever. So if you're posting on TikTok, TikTok, you're going to suck at it. Go watch my early Bigger Pocket's videos on our Bigger Pocket's YouTube channel. They're horrible. I'm stroking my cat, literally in my hands, and I'm sitting on a chair slouching, and I'm

whispering. Because of evil real estate. Yeah, exactly. It's terrible. Yep. I'm like, and I don't know anything. But you know what? Like, if you post on TikTok every day, it's a very quick way to get your reps in to

communicate your points. And then you get better and better at it. So then when you're sitting at a meeting with a private lender and the guy says, well, I don't really understand what you're doing with this whole burr or. thing. You're like, well, let me tell you about the birth strategy. And you've already had your elevator pitch perfected on TikTok and on Instagram or wherever it is you're putting out content. So just something to throw out there to people if they don't think they're a creator of content. You should be a creator of content because that's how you. You know what my best

unlock was for content? After having a child, it was legacy. Like I care about the audience because I want to bring value to the audience. But to be as honest as God honest as possible, I could care less. I'm thinking about my kids, my kids, kids, kids, kids, kids, and their kids. Because our grandparents, our parents never had this opportunity. Like right now I'm waving, hi Lucy, because that's my daughter's name. Because one day she will watch this. I can guarantee it because if you could watch your parents on every podcast they were on or your grandparents, every podcast they were on or their great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandparents.

And every show, every piece of content they put out, you would watch and rewatch and rewatch every second. of it. So when you're putting out content, think about everyone else. Like this is how I put my blinders on with everybody else because I don't care because the legacy you guys, some of you guys are leaving, you're leaving a very wildly PR insecure version of yourself that your great, great, great, great, great, grandkids will never know who the real you were. So I say just like Gary V's document don't create style. I love it because it's documentary journey because you're going to be, you're leaving lessons for your kids and your great, great, great, great grandkids. kids that we could never leave before. I get the chills every time I say that because I know for a

fact if I could see my great grandpa what he was doing when he was 28 years old. Like I would arguably what I would do all day trying to learn more about myself. That's cool, man. But that will be your unlock to now being so wildly unemotional about every piece of content you put out. I could care less if this gets 12 views because my kids are going to watch it. That's the punchline. All right. Well, that was that was awesome. We could talk about TikTok stuff all day. But I want to move on to the last segment of our show. And this is our Famous Four. All right. So Famous Four is a part of the show where we ask every guest the same four questions. You've heard our show before. You know what's coming. So,

Hakeem, let's get to you though. Real estate related book. First question of the famous four. What's your current or all-time favorite real estate related book? Honestly, the OG, the original blue book of the book on rental property investing. I have so many extensive notes. I've given it to so many. Like I've given that book to 15, probably 15 different people I've gifted that book to like NFL players I've given to. I've copied my notes on that book and given it to so many different people because it is that powerful of the book of I'm just getting started. I just, I was flipping houses with my ex, done flipping house with my ex. I know I want to do real estate. Where do I go in real estate? Here's the seven or five or X amount of spots I could get into.

And here's an actual real life practical deep dive of how to get started. And that was that's still to this day, my best favorite book. That's awesome, man. I appreciate that. What's the link for that book? BiggerPockets.com slash rental book, I think. Rental book? Top selling real estate investing book in the world. It might be. Sadly, no longer blue now. They actually change the cover. Now it's like a white, but it's got a little blue on it. Got you. Got you. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. I know it's sad. I miss the blue actually. But I designed the blue one on myself and I'm not a designer. So now they have a good looking cover. That's much better. Anyway, number two. too, David. It's like an upgrade. Like when the Power Ranger goes to the white Power Ranger,

it's a better Power Ranger. I guess so. You're a huge Power Ranger fan, so that makes it. All right, Hakeem. My question is, what's your favorite business book? The Go Giver. Bob Burke. Oh, yeah. Oh, man, that's one of my, that's, I probably reread that twice a year, maybe. I love it. It's, uh, it's my thesis on life. It's such a quick and easy read, but I think it means so much. I think a lot of people don't understand giving what your intentions are behind giving. How do give with no expectations and what can giving do as a business, business tactic at the end of the day. Okay.

Cool. What are some of your hobbies? Ooh, playing with my daughter and playing the saxophone. Oh, saxophone, really? My biggest purchase besides my used car in the NFL was an auto sax. It was like two or three grand. I always wanted to play. I played the drums and piano growing up, but can never afford a saxophone.

And that was probably one of my first purchases. And the guy I lived with when I first got to the league was really good at the sacks. And every day when we got home, we literally just put on some music on YouTube, whether it was Kenny G or whether it was like something that was new and tried to play like sax behind it. And then when I left the Cardinals and went to the lions, I started to actually get like lessons in Detroit. That's awesome, man. Very cool.

All right. Well, my last question of the day then, what do you think separate successful real estate investors than those who give up, fail, or never get started? I was thinking about this one. And honestly, I think it's following up. The best piece of advice I've ever gotten from anyone is the fortune is in the follow-up. I think we're presented hundreds, if not thousands of opportunities every single day, whether it's, and I always use the example of at the end of your episodes.

Like, I've DMed so many of your guests that you've had on your shows to see if I can get a conversation with them, see if I can learn more about them, because they say, if you want to hear more about me, shoot me a text on so-and-so or reach out to me on this or this email or that, but how many times are we actually doing that? When we're listening to that episode, like, man, it'd be really cool to actually talk to that person. Do we actually follow up? How many business cards do we follow?

How many stacks do we really have? I think that's where that separates a lot of people. Some people like the idea of going to networking events and doing all that type of stuff, but are you actually going to follow up and take action? Well, on that vein, for people that want to follow up with you, where can they find out more about you? My website is perspectiveglobalmedia.com. outside of that, LinkedIn is a great place.

Just Hakeem Valles, first and last name. The social platform, TikTok is hard because it's accelerating so fast. It's hard for me to give you follow me on TikTok. You can't message people yet on TikTok unless they both follow each other, which is kind of something that they need to figure out. But LinkedIn is probably the greatest place to reach out and find me. Awesome, man. Well, appreciate having you on the show today.

It was phenomenal. I love the advice. I love everything we talked about. We've got like 400 books to write now and a bunch of T-shirts to make. It's been a good show. So thank you, Huckin, for being here today. Brandon, David, wildly enjoyed the show. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Great job, man. This is David Green for Brandon, the OG investing book, Turner, signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small.

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