BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 453: Live Q&A with Brandon and David: Risk, Partnerships, Inspiration and Opportunity of Real Estate

Episode Date: March 21, 2021

We’re taking a bit of a detour from our regular programming to answer some live questions on real estate mindset! Brandon and David take live questions from investors across the nation on some of the most hard-hitting/commonly contemplated real estate questions and topics such as… Is perceived “risk” deterring you from making strong financial decisions? How do you keep the fire going as an agent and investor when you get rejected? When should you allow team members to take on your roles and processes? What to do to get over the fear of partnerships? How do you balance ambition and being content with your success? How to find inspiration in other people's success? What to do when there is SO much opportunity but you don’t know what to choose? And More! Brandon and David spend some time answering all of the above questions with life lessons they’ve learned in their investing careers. The solution to the problem isn’t always cut and dry, but almost all of these questions come up in a real estate investor’s career, one way or another. If you didn’t get your question answered in this episode, stay tuned as we may plan to do another Live Q&A in the future! In This Episode We Cover: Answers to the top real estate “mindset” questions  Finding your fire and running towards it Letting go of the “I have to do everything” mentality Focusing on one thing, doing a great job, and letting go of the rest Getting your spouse on board for real estate investing/financial freedom Staying content and grounded while also striving for greater things And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Podcast BiggerPockets book store BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Podcast 254: Tim Ferriss on Real Estate, Becoming a Top Performer and His Tribe of Mentors Click here to check the full show notes: https://www.biggerpockets.com/show453 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 4.53. You have to learn the skill of delegation and management in order to be able to do everything. That would be the one thing that would benefit you immensely if you could get that down. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others. who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online.

What's going on, everyone? It's Brandon Turner. Host of the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my other host of the Bigger Pockets podcast. David, Otherhost Green. What's up, David, other host, Green. How you doing? I'm doing great.

You guys have spoken, and we have listened. We have another awesome episode today where we bring in live callers to answer their questions on mindset, growth, and really anything that is stopping people from having the life and the success that they want. There you go. So we're doing a live call and show. And we had some amazing questions today. Really good stuff that we dive into like the mindset and the strategy behind what

it takes to really succeed, especially to succeed as a real estate investor. But we talk about other just business things in general that I think that no matter what business you're in right now, it's going to benefit you. So listen all the way through. You guys are going to love this. And if you're wondering, wait, how come I didn't know they were going live? What was going? Why didn't get down on this action? It's because you probably weren't following me on Instagram. So that's your quick tip is follow bigger pockets on Instagram. Follow David Green, 24 on Instagram and Beardy Brandon. And we're gonna be doing more and more live stuff

answering your questions. So that is today's quick tip. One more quick tip for you is if you have questions, like, did you know we have a forum that's open 24, 7? That's totally free. BiggerPockets.com slash forum. You can ask questions about anything. And there'll be like thousands of people reading your questions,

maybe not thousands, but there are thousands of people on the forums. In fact, there's like over two million forum posts right now. So go on there, post your questions, get real time feedback from people who are smart and in the business and that care about you and your success. It's really an amazing place. You ever head out on a trip, lock your door, and think, cool, my most valuable asset is now

doing absolutely nothing. Because while you're off traveling, your home is just sitting there, quiet, empty, not contributing, which feels like a missed opportunity, considering it has solid Wi-Fi and a very comfy bed. With Airbnb's co-host network, your place can earn money while you're away. You can hire a vetted local co-host with real hosting experience to handle guest messages, prep your space, and manage reservations so everything runs smoothly. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast, easy? Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. That means you can

stop struggling to get your job notice on other job sites. Indeed's sponsor job posts help you stand out and hire the right people quickly. Your job post jumps straight to the the top of the page where your ideal candidates are looking. And it works. Sponsored jobs on Indeed get 45% more applications than non-sponsored post. The best part, no monthly subscriptions or long-term contracts. You only pay for results. And speaking of results, in the minute I've been talking to you, 23 people just got hired through Indeed worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of the show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash rookie.

Just go to Indeed.com slash rookie right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. That's Indeed.com slash rookie. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle, active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress? Here's a better question.

What if you could buy brand new construction homes, 10%? below market value in the best markets across the country without making real estate your second job. That's exactly what rent to retirement does. They're a full service, turnkey investment company handling everything for you. In some cases, investors get 50 to 75% of our down payment back at closing, plus interest rates as low as 3.75%. They've partnered with Bigger Pockets for over a decade helping thousands invest smarter. If you want to do the same, visit BiggerPockets.com slash retirement to learn more. All right, big thanks to our sponsors as always.

And now I think it's time for us to get on with today's call in show. Like we said, these are actual real Bigger Pockets members who are going to jump in and ask questions. And I think you're going to like this. So without further ado, let's get to the first one. Logan, what's up, man? How's a good one, guys? You're doing all right.

We're doing all right. Where are you calling in from? I'm from North Carolina, right outside of Charlotte. Very cool. That's a good real estate market, actually. So, kind of got me rattled here. I can't believe I'm talking to you guys right now. We're excited to have you. Hey, look at that. Oh. Oh, my wood search here, okay?

Yes, he's showing Brandon's book. I've got yours over here. I just finished your Burr, your Burr books, so we're good. Yeah, no, so I'm looking at my first property, probably doing more of like a 20% down to start out until I can get some more cash flow to maybe Burr, some more properties. But what I'm asking is I noticed that duplexes in places like Birmingham, Alabama, Huntsville, all kinds of places. They're usually cheaper, but they're obviously a lot cheaper than it is in Charlotte. So I'm just kind of more of nervous to get started on something like that because, A, it's farther away. B, I don't really know the area as well.

How much risk am I really going to face by not knowing the area that much? Logan here has two options. He can buy in Huntsville, Alabama, or where was it, North Carolina? Yeah, so like Charlotte or the outskirts of North Carolina, which is a little bit more expensive. And you know that area worse or better? Oh, I know North Carolina a lot better. I know nothing about Alabama. I was just using that first thing.

For example, I just noticed that their properties are about 10 to 20 percent cheaper. So the question is, should you buy in a cheaper area that you don't know as well to reduce risk? Or should you buy in the area that you know better, even though the properties are more expensive? Save my money just a little bit longer. And before, I'm just getting, you know, kind of antsy on getting started. but, you know, maybe waiting that extra six months or so might, you know, might benefit me. Let's dig a little bit deeper into this. It sounds like you're trying to figure out what's the right decision for you.

Is that fair, Logan? Yes, sir. All right. And then you've got a pit in your stomach that feels like you don't want to make the wrong decision. I don't want to invest in a bad area that with like bad tenants to just destroy it. What is like the, in your burr book, it's something like the hole in the window, glass window, or something like that theory that like if I buy in a bad area like they're just going to destroy it and oh the broken window theory yeah okay yeah all right so logan here is trying to figure out

should i buy in a cheaper area that i don't know as well because there's less risk associated with the lower price point or a more expensive area that i know better which one's actually less risky so logan this is a question of risk is that fair yeah yes sir my assumption would be your gut is telling you north carolina is better because you've already mentioned things like the broken window theory, you think that might be high crime in the Alabama area. You don't know it as well. You don't have the people in place. So it should be an obvious, yes, you should buy where you are. The only thing that's stopping you is the fact that the prices are higher, which tells me that you're associating higher prices with more risk. Is there anything I'm missing? Yes, that sounds pretty spot on.

Okay. So your mindset issue right now is, is a higher price actually more risky? And I'm going to tell you, Logan, I can relate to you on this because I get in the same boat as you. I'm looking at a $15 million property right now. I've never bought one property that's that much money. And it is terrifying to think about the fact that I'm buying this place that's going to be $70,000 a month. Okay, my mind just keeps going back to if all my tenants stop paying, it's going to be $70,000, $70,000, $70,000. It's just pounding me, right? Which is the same thing that I felt when I bought my first house, believe it or not. I was like, all right, if I don't have any tenants at all for a full year, it's going to cost this much money am I going to be able to cover that? And I think this is a normal thing that our brain

thinks about. Do you want to comment at all on how you approach those situations? Does risk equate to the price that you're buying? The risk in my mind, or at least I always experienced it, was can the risk of like the time it takes to actually get there? In other words, to actually get to that financial freedom number or whatever that thing is, right? So if you're just getting started and you've got 30 grand that you could put down on something, like if you're going to going to buy an area where private these are $500,000, it's going to take you forever to get the first deal, forever to get the second deal, forever to get the third deal versus you will buy in Alabama where you can buy the first one tomorrow and then three months from now you can

probably afford another one. That is a risk. I mean, that's definitely something to be concerned about. Like if you hate your job, your goals, get out as quickly as possible, you want to build that cash flow financial freedom. And I would definitely be, you know, concerned. Now long term, I think an area like Charlotte is probably going to appreciate way better. When you have $500,000 house turns into a $700,000 house, that equity, that growth is way, way better. But the difficulty, of course, is just that takes a lot longer in terms of cash flow to get there. And each deal just takes a lot longer to buy. So I don't know, that's the way I look at the risk there. It's not so much the risk of the deal. I mean, the deal can go bad in any market. A deal can be scared now. But yeah, it's which one is

going to get you there faster? I'm just real antsy to get started. I'm just like, I can get one now in Huntsville or I can wait another year and get one in Charlotte. You know what I mean? I would say your risk is lower when you get into higher price points. As odd as that sounds, okay, I want you just think about somebody living in a really rough area where houses are very cheap, unemployment's really high, job stability is really low, maybe their education's different. They don't value things like paying rent as much versus a doctor in Beverly Hills. Right. Which of those people is more likely to make their mortgage payment or their rent payment, sorry. Right. So even though our mind sees a big number and says this is scarier, it's probably much less scary because the quality of tenant you're going to be renting to in a nicer area that you know very well is going to be more likely to pay. Just statistically speaking. Okay, this isn't any like judgment on different demographic groups. So I would remind myself of that. And then like Brandon said, what your your struggle here is going to be, how long are you going to have to wait to get started. So my question would be, how do you make peace with the fact that North Carolina

is probably the better option for you? And it's actually less risky. And how do you get there without having to save for another year? Can you buy a house as a primary residence and house hacking? That takes you from 20% down to 5% down right off the back. You probably have enough money right now to do that. Can you find a house to house hack that's not a stereotypical triplex or duplex? I mean, if you can find one of those, that's awesome. But if you can't, I found a duplex in the area. It was sold and then all of a sudden it just come back on the market. So I've kind of excited about yet.

But that was one of very few that I've noticed. It's on the outskirts of Charlotte in a little town called Canapolis. It just came back on the market today. So I'm pretty excited on that one. We thought about house hacking with that duplex there. The numbers line up pretty good. Literally asking you, what would stop you from doing that? I really don't have an answer now.

I'm probably going to be all over that one more. but with that being said, so let's say I purchased that one this week, this month, blah, blah, blah. I'm looking at my next step at that point is, okay, do I now do I start, I found a great deal in Canapolis at the outskirts of Charlotte. I was looking more of do I now go to like a Huntsville or something like that because finding deals are so hard to come by around here. So I was about to say, don't just look for the duplexes, okay?

Look for single family homes that have basements, that either are or aren't finished that you can buy and operate it as a duplex or an ADU or a floor plan that would be very easy to split into two. Okay, avoid one bathroom houses because then you got to run plumbing for a kitchen or a bathroom

off of only one bathroom. If you have more than one bathroom, like two or more, you got easier ways you could tap into plumbing. So you're turning it in to basically be able to function as more than one unit

and try to avoid anything that's on a concrete slab foundation. If it's on a raised foundation, it's much easier for you to run the plumbing and the electrical that you're going to need. And the minute you do that, you start looking at the market that way, you're going to see that there's way more options out there than what you thought. You were thinking Huntsville or Charlotte, and now you're like, okay, in North Carolina, I got 25 options, which is the best one. And I think that your anxiety is

going to go way down. Okay. Perfect. All right, man. Thank you very much. My pleasure, Logan. All right. Sammy, welcome to the show. Sammy. How you doing? Welcome. This is our first official call-in show that we've done like in the shed today. So we're kind of figuring out the technology here. But what can we answer for you? So I'm actually going to be a new real estate agent, but I'm also still dabbling a little bit in real estate investing. And where I live currently, the market is kind of good, but a lot of the houses are more expensive and what, like the areas that are good for to like buy houses and everything. And I keep getting told by other real estate agents like,

oh, you'll find, you'll be fine, you'll get it eventually. Houses, you know, some clients, you'll just keep your go and then you'll fail or they won't want that house. How do you keep that fire going, you know, even though it's like time after time, it's not exactly what they want or what you want. How do you keep that mindset of just like one day I will get this? If everything's a funnel when it comes to real estate investing, finding deals, or being a real estate agent or being a salesman at a car dealership, doesn't matter.

Like, it's all the same, right? Like you have to work this process over and over and over and over. And eventually it should work out to success, right? Like, so if you're a real estate agent, you got to, you got to meet with dozens of people. You show dozens of houses. They just keep saying no. The deal falls through. If you're a real estate investor, you go and make an offer on 20 deals, every one of them or 20 properties, everyone gets rejected. And then you feel like, you know, it's not working. And you lose the fire, right? So this is a very common thing with anybody it has any kind of sales type jobs, which real estate investing is, real estate is, and car dealership is. So the question is, how do you, how do you keep the fire? Let me start with you, David, on

answer that one, because as an agent, you've dealt with that a lot, and then I'll jump back in. So the question here, Sammy, is going to be when you're getting rejected over and over and over, how do you stay motivated? Yeah. Okay. This is a great question. I love it. And frankly, this is what separates legit agents from not legit agents, which is- investors. Yeah, and investors, absolutely, okay? The amateur, I'm trying to think of a nice way to say this. The amateur expects everything to come to them easily, and they blame everyone else for

why something doesn't work. So they write 20 offers, they don't get anything under contract for themselves, and they go, I guess real estate sucks. Or they show 20 houses to a client, the client can't make a decision, and they go, this client's an idiot. It's where we get this phrase in real estate, buyers or liars. We hear this all the time, okay? On my team and the attitude that Brandon and I ascribe to is the extreme ownership way of looking

at that says everything's my fault, all right? So if I show a client or I write 20 offers for a client and they're not accepted, that's my fault. I did not advise my client what it would take to get an offer accepted. I did not meet with my client for long enough to talk about what their goals are and if this is something that they really want. Maybe they're sabotaging themselves on purpose. Maybe the house is listed for 300 and you say we can get it for 300. and 2000, and they say right up for 300 and one 500. They actually don't want to get the house. They're

afraid of homeownership. And you got to dig in and figure out, is it like Logan where they think that the house is too expensive and they're afraid to buy anything over 300? Did they buy a house in 2005 and lost in 2009? And now they have PTSD. There's some psychological issue that your client is having where they're not writing competitive offers or going after the correct properties. And we have to, as agents, look at that like it's our job to figure that out. We cannot expect the client to do that on their own. Some people will get to that point on their own. Many of them won't. So what I would say is stop letting your client drive the car. Get them out of the driver's seat, put them in the passenger seat, you drive the car and you say, look, let's dig deep and figure out what you actually want here.

Maybe you shouldn't be a homeowner. Let's figure out if this is even something. Do you just want to pay rent for the next 20 years? This is what rents will be. Let's talk about why we're going about it this way. And the same goes for real estate investors. There's so many investors that come up with a million reasons why they don't actually want to buy a house. It's this weird like the moth gets close to the flame, but it doesn't actually want to touch it. So it just orbits around it and it never actually gets in there. It's what's between our ears. This is why we're talking about mindset.

If you're being honest, Sammy, can you give us a little bit more insight as to why you think this client is not actually putting a house in contract? In all honesty, I think they're limited with how much they want to put down financially and how much like work they would want to put into it if it's like a little bit of a fixer upper before they make it a rental or if they just want a house that will, they can buy it and they can flip it and turn it straight into a rental without doing any extra like renovations. I think it's maybe also just them like committing. So this is an investor client who is figuring out a way to pretend like they're in the investment game. but not actually commit and get skin in the game. Is that fair? Correct. So they have something in them. They've got a little hitch that's stopping them from moving forward.

And you need to look at it like they need your help to get over that. That the universe brought you into their life specifically to help them figure out what their fears are. It could be something as simple. And this comes up with my own clients where, well, Brandon and David said I should be at 70% of the ARV because they listen to a podcast like episode 107 or something like that. And it's in their mind that there's a certain discount that they have to get. And if they don't get it, they shouldn't buy the house. That's outdated information that doesn't make sense for them. It could be something else where someone in their family is telling them, you should never pay

over the list price. And you're over here saying, we got to go over list price. Right. And there's this, this, they're so confused. They're waiting for you, Sammy, to have enough confidence to jump into their head, figure out what's going on in there and help them work through that problem. I can promise you Okay. I'd also throw on this that it's just like real estate investing and this happens with real estate investing as well. People chase a property because it's there rather than chasing a business structure that will deliver continual clients to them or continual houses.

For example, like somebody will be like, yeah, my uncle's cousin is selling their house and therefore they're like, oh, off market, I might be able to make a good deal out of this. And for the next six months, that's all they do is try to think of a hundred different ways to make this one property work. And they just keep trying this property. And I'm like, shoot, like one out of a hundred deals is actually going to work out. So instead, work on how to get a hundred deals a day coming into your pipeline and you'll buy a deal a day.

It's really that simple. And so the same thing as applies to real estate agents is like that one client just might just never buy a property because they suck. And so like work instead on like, how do we get a pipeline of clients that are coming in here? What are the actions I can do there? Now, one more follow-up piece to the question of how do you, how do you hold the fire? Like, how do you keep that momentum going when you just get rejected over and over and over and over, whether it's being an agent investor or whatever else?

What I like to say is this is don't set your goals based on results, set your goals based on process numbers. For example, if I was going to go offer on a real estate deal, like my goal is not necessarily go buy a real estate deal this quarter. It's, I'm going to make 30 offers this quarter. If I made 30 offers this quarter, I'll probably get something accepted. I'm just almost for sure I would. Now, if I didn't, if I got to end of the quarter and I hit my goal of 30,

because now notice what I did is I'm now gamifying the process rather than just like hoping for the results, right? So the same thing you should achieve with agents or whatever. But gamify the process. Now, if you get to the end of the process that should have produced the result and it didn't produce the result, now you've got to dive into the process and ask, where am I wrong on that? So finding a real estate deal, I'd say, okay, so I made 30 offers and everyone got rejected. Why? Because I'm only offering on on market deals.

There's 30 other offers on every offer of them submitting. And I'm only offering on nice properties. Hmm. Maybe I need to tweak my system and find out what would work better. And so again, like, look at the process. Make sure you're gamifying that and your goals are set based on that. That'll keep the fire going because you know the process is going to get there. Stop thinking about the result.

and then analyze the funnel, where is it breaking down? At what part is it breaking down? And how can you improve it? So that's what I'd, yeah. So for investors, you need to do that for yourself. For agents, you are the fiduciary of your clients, your job to help them to do that. And that is why we have real estate agents. If people could do this on their own and they didn't need that guidance, Sammy, then there wouldn't be the profession of agents. So my advice to you is that you have some hitch in your own mindset that thinks that you are you're either uncomfortable getting into somebody's world like that or that you don't know enough to be able to do the job you got to let go of that they came to you for a reason you do know your gut is telling you what this person needs to understand

you need to have the courage to go engage in that conversation and you'll find that they probably just they're just going to throw all of their fears all over and you're going to be able to pick through that well thank you so much well thank you sammy Tyler and zosha welcome to the bigger pockets podcast. How can we help you? Thank you guys. Awesome to be here. As far as the mindset stuff goes, I love everything you guys been putting out. And we're coming up against a problem with growth. And kind of a two-part problem, one of which is fear of growth. I think we've got a ton of tools at our disposal and opportunity is knocking. And I mean, last year we three X start income and we really want to move forward. But there's this fear of growth that's holding us up. And then beyond

that. I'm a business owner, self-employed general contractor. A secondary kind of follow-up question is kind of advice for how you guys would recommend getting away from feeling like I have to do everything myself and always being disappointed by delegating or having team members, building a team and not being afraid of growth in a nutshell. All right. Great, great question. So let's first talk about fear of growth because this is something I've dealt with over the years. I feel like I've got a fair amount of experience in. In fact, I still work with my coach. I have a coach named Jason Drees. I still work with him all the time on this concept. And one thing that he taught me, and I'll just explain it here, is that growth is very much like a balloon, right? Like, you know, like,

the other day, my daughter had a little tea party. And so I'm blowing up this balloon and it's a little like heart-shaped balloon. And I blow really hard. And it just like, it's like, it just wants to stay like flat, right? And then finally, it blows up a little bit. Now, right there at that size, it's like, it's good right there. It'd be easy to, if it went down, it could blow up to that size again. But then to go bigger, it takes even more work.

In other words, you kind of like get to these levels of growth where it feels suddenly comfortable. And then you have to go and stretch right to the next level. So the question is, how do you get there? And the way that my coach always tells me and the way that I,

and it's going to sound super like, kind of like, woohoo, you know, foo, kind of esoteric thing. But it's to breathe. And what he says in the way that I interpret that is like, to just like accept in the moment, like this is where we're at.

And not to go, like, I don't think you go to, like, it's breathing meeting pause, reflect this is where we're at. We're good here. This is comfortable. Now we want to stretch to the next level because we're ready to because we want to, right? So I guess that's what I looked at. Like, for example, when I had 100 units roughly. And then it was like, should I form a private equity company and go buy a thousand units?

Like, that was like, ha. Like scary, right? But I had to be like, okay, I'm here. at 100, everything's fine. It's working. All my systems are going. Like, this is, this is actually fairly easy. So I breathe. And then I accept that like, I'm going to, I'm going to go to the next level. And that's when we, we formed a team. And so it's, it's probably kind of maybe sounds like lame advice, but just literally that it's like breathe and say, I'm good here. My systems are good here. Now I'm going to challenge myself with the next level. David, what do you want to add on that?

What would you say? Well, Tyler, part of your question was, how do I let go of the need to do everything myself because no one does it as good as me. Right. Okay. This could be literally an entire podcast. I mean, there's so many things we can talk about with this. Let me start with this. Be grateful that it's hard. Okay. Because those who build a team dominate and no one does because of what you just said. That is a struggle every person has and that is a barrier to entry that creates massive opportunity for those that are willing to bust through that. I've had to do that. We just hit 57 houses and escrow on my real estate team. When we had nine or 10, I was the stud in my office. And so this is like getting to a point that I just, my mind can't even wrap itself

around the fact that this is going so good. And it happened because I stopped doing everything. And instead of David having to do it all, I made 10 little Davids or 15 little David's. Now, a few things that I use to get me to that point, because it was incredibly hard, like what you're saying. The first is I started looking at certain problems as can anyone do this or can only I do this. So there's certain things that you guys excel at. There's other things that you do better than other people, but they're not really that important. You have to make it like a game or a rule that if you catch yourself doing something that someone else could do, it means that you suck. Well, that's the way I look at it, right? It's like a bad sign on myself. Not everyone maybe is as negative as saying they suck. But if I catch myself doing a really good job putting the listing into the MLS, I slap myself. I need to make it my priority to teach someone else to do a really good job to put it in the MLS. And I will pour into them until they can do it as good as me.

And I repeat that process for every single thing that I catch myself doing in the day that I specifically am not the one that has to do it. So certain things like putting a house under contract for a client, incredibly important. I'm not just letting somebody else do that. But calling the listing agents to ask a bunch of questions about if we even have a chance to get it or looking up the tax records. If I did that, I would slap myself. Nope, that's somebody else. Give them the opportunity. What I was actually doing was robbing other people of the ability to learn the business because I kept thinking. And so instead of thinking, well, no one could do it as good as me, it turned around to I'm not even good at my own job because I'm stopping other people from growing.

I'm stopping myself from getting there. That mindset shift was huge when it came to having the freedom to let go and let somebody else. Now, I'll give you a piece of tactical advice once you've come to that point. We're willing to do it. It should feel like there's someone on your team that is trying to pull that task away from you and you're hanging on to it. You don't just let them take it. They got to earn the right to do that thing. So give me an example of something in your business that you feel should be delegated that's not.

project management as a general contractor just overseeing or scheduling subcontractors picking up materials that sort of stuff that all the in between the sub stuff that falls on a general contractor I find myself doing these low level things that were ultimately they are absolutely needing to be performed by somebody else but huge time suck but doesn't you know the energy or efficiency is needed to grow because you're afraid if I don't do it then days and days and days are going to turn into weeks and weeks and that turns into a lot of money. And then my sub gets let down because somebody else screwed up. Now he doesn't want to work for me anymore. It makes you look bad. That's why it's and your clients look bad, right? You don't want to just hand that job to someone and say,

hey, you're going to go be my project manager. You're going to force them. Yeah, we both screwed that up many times. Like just trying to like, yeah, we've screwed that up. We just like hand something to somebody. You're like, here, you're in charge now. And it never goes well. Abdication. You're going to. Delegation. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. So they're going to sit with you. And they got. And they got to want it. So if they're like, you know, I'm willing to pitch in. Nope, gone, right? Pitch in means I don't want any of the responsibility of something going wrong and I want all the credit for helping you. They have to say, I want that job. Once they're there, they're going to sit with you and they're going to say, let me do that for you, let me do that for you, let me do that for you.

And you're going to hang on to that job until they pull it away from you. And what pulling away from you looks like is jumping in and making the phone call and impressing you with the way they do it. You're going to want to see them thinking ahead. All right, if I order the roofing materials, is it going to be raining when we store them at the project? They need to be thinking about those types of things that could go wrong. And if they're not thinking it, you hang on to the job and you're like, you're not pulling hard enough.

I need to see this from you. I need to see that from you. And they should rise to the challenge. And at a certain point, you're going to notice that they're doing that just as good as you. And then they've pulled it out of your hands, right? At that point, you decide what's the next thing I'm going to let them pull or who is going to pull this thing away from me. So it's not an easy thing to do. This is what's difficult.

In fact, I feel like there should be a podcast center towards people who want to get a promotion. And this is what I'd be telling them. You need to learn how to pull things away from your boss, right? Quit waiting for someone to just shove something on you and then I'll learn as I go. But in general, if you guys can create a vision for other people, paint a vivid vision that they can see if I learn to do this for Tyler, I can make this much money. I can create this much opportunity. Tyler can then go and he can get this many more deals. Now I can supervise other people and they see how they can create their own opportunity wherever they want.

People will start doing this. I would also throw in just a couple of thoughts. One, you know, like the idea of I could do better than them, that crosses my mind occasionally where I'm like, well, I could do a better job than, you know, that employee. Like I had that a lot early on. So two thoughts on that. Number one, usually it's a lie, right? Usually it's a lie.

Like, for example, even today, like, I'll ask my assistant Drew, who lives here in Maui and helps me with a lot of personal projects. He's actually putting a platform on what was a sandbox for my daughter. I said, can you build a little platform here? Now, in my head, I'm like, it's like eight pieces of wood. You nail it down. I can be down in 20 minutes, right? That's what I tell myself.

In reality, what would have actually happened? I would have gone over there, but like, oh, I don't have the wood. Okay, got to go to Home Depot. Then I got to do this. Then I got the wrong type of wood probably. And then they didn't have it in stock. I had to go to Lowe's. And then I came back.

And then it didn't fit, quite right at the measure. And so in reality, that would have taken me six hours to do it, just like it took him six hours to do it. It might have taken him seven, right? Because I've got a few more years of experience. But we tend to, our ego says we can do things way better and way faster because we forget all those annoying little things that happen when we actually do a project. So number one is recognizing that it's our own ego that makes us think we're way better than other people doing the job. And number two, over the last two years, I've really discovered that some people are just way better at doing things than I am. And I just wasn't good at

finding those people. And so I was bringing in people in my world who were there rather than who were amazing. So, example, open door capital is my real estate fund, right? So Walker is my underwriter. Now, I thought I was pretty good at deal analysis. I got a video on YouTube on analyzing deals that has 3.2 million views, right? I'm the deal analysis guy. And then I met Walker. And I was like, I am a moron. Like, I don't. know anything about deal analysis compared to Walker. Now, it took 700 applicants and Walker rose to the top of 700 people that we worked through our funnel to get him. So in other words, I've really perfected and got good over the last couple years at finding those people,

because they are not just normal. But if you accept the fact that ego is like, it's actually harder to get things done than we really think it is. And then two, you transfer all your energy to finding those people who really are better, that makes the scaling thing. At least for me, that made all the difference, those two things. So I hope that helps there. Let me add one piece of motivation for you. When you do a job, even if you do it better than someone else, you get a benefit from that. That's like flipping a house.

You flip a house, you made some money. When you buy a rental property, you get benefit for the rest of your life. Yeah. All right. As investors, we love this idea that I work really, really hard to get something and then I'm done. and it just pays me all the time. That is the difference between having a job and owning a business.

Anytime you do something that you are not also training someone else how to do it, you are flipping a house. The minute that you move into, I am doing this, but I'm showing someone, I'm training someone, I'm bringing somebody along, I'm investing into them, you are turning that into a rental property, that that employee is your investment that will pour into your business passively at a certain point. So what I started doing was taking these principles that I used to buy investment property and I made people the investment instead of the property. And I bought a lot of bad deals like Brandon said, oh, that house is right there.

I'll just use that one. It's there. And then it was terrible. It took me a while before I recognized what a good deal looks like in the form of an employee. But once I got there, I now don't let myself do anything unless there's somebody with me at least one person watching. And now there's someone watching and I'm recording it. So that becomes training material for the next human being. And if you can rewire your brain to look at stuff like that,

you will dig yourself out of this whole much faster than you think. All right. One last point. And then we'll move on. But one more thing is also what I've realized and you have as well. And it fits with the analogy. When you buy a rental house that pays you for life, right? However, it doesn't pay you for life if you don't want, if you don't manage it correctly,

if you don't have a good property manager and the right systems. People are the same way. So when I started hiring people, we had a lot of problems. Like we had a lot of like, well, I don't know what to do with this and they're not pulling their weight and all that. And it wasn't until I implemented really strong management principles. Now, we work on the EOS system at Open Door Capital, which is the, from the book, traction. So we run that system. So there's other ones, like 40X is a good one. There's a lot of others, but we have EOS. And it's basically like managing tenants and managing properties and property

manager, the same thing. It's not just set it and forget it. But when you have the right people and you have the right mindset going into it, knowing like keeping your ego out of it, and then you get the right people and you manage those people correctly, it is unbelievable what can happen. And so it, and people said that to me for years on a podcast and everywhere else. And like, I knew it in my head. I didn't feel it my heart until the last two years where now I'm like, I just want to shake everybody and be like, you don't understand how amazing it is. When you get amazing people all doing their job that they were like put on this earth to do. And like, I work less hours and get so much more done now.

And it's and they're like thriving and they're paying for their lives and they're buying real estate. Now my team is buying individual real estate deals for themselves because I'm giving them money to do that. And it's such a beautiful thing. So just trust us. It works. It's not always easy, but it does work. So yeah, hope that helps. Well, that's the whole point.

That question came up, right? It's because we know that we, we have the vision. We keep on calling at the out here, right? Like the mindset is there. You guys are in our heads all the time. and it's that growth mentality and this was super helpful and very inside of I love that analogy of renting versus flipping because we're both in that right now in Denver and it's like okay but this is long term for quality of life not just for what we want to do as well so appreciate

thank you guys that was a great question yeah awesome question cliff kamusta ka okay long talk what's up cliff welcome to the welcome to the show what can we do for you good good so um can you guys me okay if you guys we can yeah okay good so I'm on my second house hack I'm here in next by Travis Air Force Base in Fairfield so I've been doing this and using my VA and using FHA but I want to scale this year and like bring on bring on other partners because capital is getting thin so just to get over that hurdle of you know having partners. How did you guys do that in your guys's first like like partnership? Did you guys, did you guys have like a like a gut feeling like, you know, is it going to,

is it going to work out or how did you guys get over that, you know? That's a great question. I love that. All right. So to recap the question real quick, is how do you get over the fear of bringing in partners? How do you start the partnership route? Because Cliff here wants to scale his business. So love that question because it is terrifying to bring in a partner into your business. If you want to, if you want to scale, obviously a partner is a good way to do it, raising money or bringing in a partner is a great way to do it. But it has to be the right partner. And there's a lot of people like, well, I've heard bad stories about partnerships. They, you know, a lot of bad things can happen. And it's true.

I've had bad partnerships before. So how do you, how do you get through it? Let me, a couple ideas. First of all, I'm a big believer in like, you don't know how somebody's going to be until you've actually worked with them. It's kind of a catch 22, right? Like, If you don't know how they're going to be until you work with them, but you don't want to work with them until you know how they're going to be, how do you put that together? Well, the way that I do it is very small things. Like rather than let's partner on a bunch of real estate deals,

it's, hey, do you want to flip a house with me? Do you want to buy a rental with me? And so if you did one and it goes bad in terms of like, you guys hate each other or whatever, you know, that sucks, but it's only one deal. I heard about a person the other day, actually yesterday somebody told me about a friend of mine who has a partner who they've now separated,

but they own like a dozen properties together, and they are not together, like they don't like each other anymore. And so like it's a, it's a drama filled experience, right? So hopefully you try to settle those things ahead of time. So first of all is find a way to make it easy and small, start very, very small. It could literally even be like not even a real estate deal. It could be like, hey, do you want to partner together on finding a real estate deal? And if we find something, maybe we'll partner on doing it.

So each of us put in $1,000 and we'll see what happens if we can find a deal using direct mail, right? At least you get to see a little bit of how they work. Do they show up on time to appointments? Do you feel like there's some trust built there? Secondly, the more you manage expectations up front, the better long term. So the more you can manage those expectations. So like what that means is really spelling out ahead of time. This is what I'm going to do.

This is what you're going to do. This is what's going to happen if things go bad. This is what's going to happen if things go good. And almost every partnership fails because something wasn't specified ahead of time enough. So what I like to do is sit with a lawyer. It'll cost you $200. You sit down. Once you have your partner, you know you're going to work with together. You sit down with an attorney and say, we want to put together a partnership agreement. Will you just like interview us and talk, the lawyer will ask a bunch of questions like,

what happens if it goes good? How are you going to split profits? The lawyers know how to do all that stuff. So they'll have you come up with stuff that you didn't even realize was an issue. Like, what happens if one of you dies? Oh, that's a good question. What does happen? Because attorney is going to help you prepare that. So that's my answer to the partnership thing. And then it's hard. But like I said, start small, have everything in writing, manage expectations. What do you think, David? I think specific to this question, which is how do I partner with someone to buy single family

homes because I don't have enough capital? Maybe don't look at it just from I need to find someone that has capital. You could partner with somebody else that can actually get financing for another low down payment like what you've already done. Can someone else use their VA loan, someone that's in the military with you or another FHA loan? And you get entitled to that house, but they're not. and you just co-signed basically on their loan, but they use those load down payment options. That's something you can use that's more than just capital.

So maybe don't assume that you have to just do it the same way that you've already done it, where you buy a house and now you're thinking, well, who's got money? I don't have a track record. It's hard to borrow. There's people that have more to offer than just capital. They've got a loan. And there's also people that are currently not happy with their housing situation. Can you go to somebody in the military with you and say, are you tired of living on base?

Well, buy this house. I'll connect you with the lender. I'll show you what we did. You and I will live together. We'll rent out the rooms to other people. You show them how that's going to save them money. Boom, you got yourself a partner. Well, thank you.

Appreciate you, guys. Thank you, Cliff. People love to call real estate passive income, which is interesting because most of the investors I know are very busy. Busy finding deals, busy managing teams, busy worrying they pick the wrong market. Rent to retirement flips that model. They help investors buy turnkey new construction homes,

often 10% below market value in top rental markets across the country. Their local teams handle the build, the property management, and the details, so you don't have to. In some cases, investors even receive 50 to 75% of their down payment back at closing, and there are interest rates as low as 3.75%. They've been trusted partners with BiggerPockets for over a decade, and if you want to learn more, visit BiggerPockets.com slash retirement. If you think property management is expensive, try mismanaging a vacancy, or an eviction, or a maintenance issue that turns into a five-figure problem because no one caught it early.

That's expensive. A good property manager isn't overhead. Their protection against small mistakes turning into big losses. And that matters more than ever in this economy. That's why I like Mind. Unlike other property managers, Mind manages your property like an investment. They obsessively measure the things that matter for your bottom line. things like occupancy, delinquency, and net promoter score, and they have the results to prove it. Go to mine.co slash show me to see how mine performs and get your first month free, which is much cheaper than learning the hard way. Wouldn't it be great if your houseplants paid rent while you were out of town? I mean, they've got the whole place to themselves, lots of sunlight, zero responsibilities. But no, they just sit there waiting for someone to spray them with some cool mist like a bunch of leafy loafers.

But guess what? Your home actually could be earning you money while you're not there. Airbnb has a great feature called the co-host network, which makes hosting your home so easy. If you live far from your property or are away for extended periods, you can hire a local co-host to take care of the hosting for you. These co-hosts are vetted locals who already have experience hosting on Airbnb. A co-host can handle all the details like messaging guests, creating your host space, and managing reservations. So everything runs smoothly. It's a practical way to earn a little extra money, maybe even some cash toward your next trip.

Plus, you get to share your place with someone traveling to your area while you're off making. memory somewhere else. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. All right. Let's bring in another question asker, another guest of the podcast. Brody, welcome to the show. What can we do for you? I live in Utah. I'm 28 years old. The last couple of years, I've been, I guess, financially free from real estate. I've been able to do pretty well at creating passive income. It's been amazing. Kind of this internal battle that I've had lately is what's the balance between thinking big and like constantly going bigger, better, bigger, better, which I know is a good thing. I need to do that. But then the flip side is,

you know, complacency is the is bad, right? Like how do you not compare yourself? Comparisons is a Thief of Joy type thing. How do you not compare yourself to somebody else and at the same time be satisfied with where you're at? So it's kind of in this like this constant like, oh, I'm proud of where I came, but do you keep on ground? grinding and where's the line. So I wanted to ask, ask you guys. All right. So I love that question because it's something that I actually ask people all the time. I've asked guests on the podcast before and something that I've struggled with over the years is how do you balance that contentness and ambition to the two of them? Because I get a ton of value, a ton of value out of growth.

It's fun. Like, I mean, we love building new things. And like, I said a joke to a friend the other day, kind of half joke because he asked me the same question. I said, well, for thousands of years, like men would just like kill each other. It just murder one another, like battles and war. And today we just do business. Like we just do real estate. It's like the same. It's the same itch.

Like to conquer and to win, like to climb that mountain to like, I don't know, run a sword through somebody. I don't know. It's just like, like, they just get a lot of their internal validation from conquering something. And so at the same time, like, I've got what, you know, I've got wife, kids. I've got, I want to surf more. I want to just enjoy my time. I want to look back in my life when I'm 90 and be like, all I did was work. So here's just where I've landed on it and it's a continually evolving thing for me,

is that when my wife thinks I'm working too hard, I'm working too hard. In other words, I don't base my ambition slash my contentness on my feelings. I based it on the people around me if they feel like I'm working too hard because I don't have a good barometer for myself. That said, did me have somebody in the podcast other day or maybe I heard it somewhere else? I talked about having an internal, no, it was John Eldridge book I'm reading called Take your life back. And he says in there, like, everyone should have an internal, there's these barometers.

And so for example, one of his barometers is if he can't get his evening walk in, he tried to do a 20 minute walk every night. If he hasn't got his evening walk in for a few days in a row, that's a barometer. That's like a temperature gauge saying, oh, warning sign, you're working too hard, you're working too much, you're being too ambitious. And so there's these internal barometers. Mine is, yeah, my wife says, I'm working too hard, I'm working too hard. But I plan to work until the end of my life.

I think, Brody, you probably plan to work to end of your life, David, and most people listen are going to work to the end of their life because we get value out of that growth. So again, I just look to other people as kind of my barometer. What do you think? I mean, if I give you a practical example of how I navigate this issue, just what I'm doing right now in Hawaii, and you tell me if I miss anything or if I should add. So I'm currently staying in Maui with Brandon at a condo,

and I'm buying a couple condos in that same complex. So I will soon have that same floor plan to stay in when I come visit. 800 square feet, one bedroom, two bathrooms. It's right across the street from the beach. I walk out of my door and I'm looking at the ocean and I cross the street and I'm there. There are also condos that are not across the street. They're on the same side of the beach that I could have bought one of those for $400,000 more and I wouldn't have to cross the street. The way I look at this is it'd be very easy to start being upset with the condo I have because I have to cross the street to get there. And I think that's what you're getting at is at what point do you say enough is enough I don't

need more because it would be silly for me to be pissed every time I cross a street and literally take six steps or seven steps to get to the ocean. So what I do to manage this because like Brandon said, I'm going to be having to move forward and conquer and grow. I also don't want to be unhappy is I focus on the things I love about what I have and I try to squeeze every amount of joy that I can out of it. I have an ocean view. It's awesome. I make sure I look at the ocean and I think God every day that I can see the, how many people in the world get to be in Maui, running their business remotely, staring at the ocean with their best friend next to them. It's incredible the life that I have, all right?

But if I build it to the point where I can have a house on the other side of the street and it's not going to stress me out as far as finances go, I will buy that one and I will be glad that I can see the ocean closer and not have to cross the street and I will squeeze every single ounce of joy that I can out of that. And at a certain point, like Brandon and I, we do jiu-jitsu when we get done recording, it's really hot. We do it outside. It's miserable. And I've thought, wouldn't it be cool to buy a house that was big enough that had a mat room that was air-conditioned, that everybody could go to that house and we could do it in a more comfortable setting. I will be super grateful that I get to pay for a personal trainer to teach us jiu-jitsu where I'm not getting strangled for an hour

by people that are having fun killing me. I'm very lucky I get to do that. But if I get an opportunity to buy a house where I can have an air-conditioned room with the math that everyone can come and we can all be blessed. I will go get it and then I'll be very grateful to have that. That's the way that my mind tries to process this so that I don't stop pushing myself and I also don't rob myself of joy. I think real estate's a perfect example, right? Because it's like we're constantly tempted with, oh, do we keep the cash flow now and buy a nicer car and up our whatever, right? Or do we roll that in the next deal? And then it's like at some point, where's, where's the end, right? Like, where does, I don't know, where you keep on going until, until when, you know?

And so, yeah, I think, I think that for sure helps just being grateful for what you have and then constantly, you know, looking for opportunities to, to improve. So, like, I look at real estate very much like alcohol. Alcohol can provide a lot of fun, you know, at a big party, everyone's loosening up, whatever. There's some good things, I'm sure, without alcohol. What did I say? Real estate. Yeah, okay, both. Money and real estate, like alcohol. You're right. But it's both, right? Like, it's dangerous. I say, yeah, money, but through real estate, we'll say here. Meaning, in excess, there's a lot of danger to be had there. In fact, I've even, like, morally, like, been, like, question.

Like, is my whole life just about making people rich? No, like, I don't want that in my life to be able to make people rich, because making people rich doesn't make you happy. In fact, study shows that the richer you are, generally, the less happy you are. It's more about, yeah, what are you doing with that money that you have? And so I look at, like, yeah, if, all you ever do is just make more money just you can have more money to be able to spend more money, that is a dangerous, I think, spot to be in in life because it just makes you less happy and more likely to fall victim

to things like depression and that constant envy of what your friends are doing. So I guess I and a few friends, including David here, like we talk about that fairly often. Like, what are we doing with our money? What's our attitude to money right now and wealth? Are we being generous? Are we giving it away? Are we just trying to be, as Tim Ferriss says, like, what's he called like the fat ball guy in the red convertible? Something like that. He has a has this whole analogy in the book about like, I don't want to be just the old fat, bald guy in a convertible who just like, that was the peak of life is to have the red convertible, right? Like I want to be something different. So yeah, and I think the ultimate answer to me anyway is

it's a, it's kind of like work life balance. There's no such thing. I think it's work life balancing. It's a continual balancing act, right? Like looking at your heart, looking at where you're at and your ambition. So I think it's one point it comes down to where it's no longer about the money and And it's about potential. And that's something like I've been kind of starting to grasp a little bit. And it's like, because really like does my life change that much if I make an extra a couple hundred thousand dollars this year? Like no, probably not at all.

But it's it's more about, okay, do I have potential to do that? And then my, my maximizing my potential. And at the end of the day, that's what's feeling. That's what feels good is reaching your potential. And so, yeah, I'm going to have something to do with it as well. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I try to, I try very hard not to compare myself to other.

people to compare myself to my potential, right? And we're not perfect at it. I'm when I still scrolling Instagram and I see the guy with the fancy jet and I'm like, oh man, that'd be cool to have a jet, right? But like, I try not to, I try not to let that affect my mood. And instead just say, well, what is my potential to get a jet? That should be, if like, if I believe I really wanted a jet and that my potential is out to get a jet, and that would be better for me and my family and society for me to have my own plane, then fine. I can go and do that. But the answer right now is know, like it wouldn't benefit me at all or the society or the world to have a plane. And I'm not knocking people who have a plane. Good for them. It probably helps them in their

environment and their family and their business. But for like, I knew my potential was to live in Hawaii. I know that was a huge piece of it and I would be happier there. My family would have a good time. So I moved here because I thought that would be a big part of it. So anyway, hope that helps, Brody. But yeah, thank you for the question. It's a good, good topic. Appreciate it. Josh Lupo, welcome to the podcast, man. How you doing? Hey, I'm doing very, very well. this is such a cool idea i'm so glad you guys got uh are doing this man that's awesome well thanks man well what uh we're we're figuring out as we go here but what what can we uh what's your question what you thought today yeah absolutely so it's actually it's kind of like a

continuation a little bit off of um kind of what brodie said so you guys a few episodes ago i think it was yeah like three or four you had anson young on one of things you guys talked about was kind of finding that balance between like you know getting inspiration when you like you're surrounding yourself with successful people and getting inspiration from that, but then also not having that necessarily like detract from like where you are. Like the, I think you guys use the term like run your own race, right? So like, so for us, like we started the end of 2018, right? We, you know, we listened to the podcast. We got our first house hack.

We had a bunch of student loan debt and we were like, all right, let's pay that off. So we got a house act paid off a lot of student loans. Got a second house hack back in September. And we're feeling pretty good at that time. But then we also have a lot of friends who are really starting to ramp up their investing. And it's finding that balance. We're like, we're really inspired by what they're doing, but also trying to not have it like detract. Like, we feel like we've accomplished a lot.

But sometimes it almost feels like those accomplishments are negligible kind of compared to what our friends are kind of finding that balance, I guess. Yeah. How do you not compare yourself to the other person that's more? Because no matter what, they're, I mean, I've battled this all the time. But yeah, there's always somebody who's doing more than you are, who's doing better the job than you are. That's crushing it. And, you know, part of that, you know, part of my story over the last few years was I went to the Joe Fairless's best ever conference, right? Like three years ago or two years ago.

And I was surrounded by people who were doing way more than me. And I was like, I don't say I was jealous, but it fueled me to launch my own bigger game, like to play at a bigger level. because what it did is it showed me I wasn't living to my potential that I had a huge amount of potential that wasn't living up to. So it wasn't like jealousy that led me there, but it definitely it fueled me. And so trying to not get jealous and feeling bad about yourself versus letting it fuel you. I mean, it's tough. But all I can say is it's literally like in my mind just shifting that the terminology. Because when I see somebody doing something great, I think Grant Cardone says this in the 10x rule. Like he's never jealous of people because if he sees somebody doing something,

cool, it just means it's possible. Like, oh, they got a TV show. I'm not jealous. They got a TV. Like, the other day, I saw Grant Cardone hanging out with Robert De Niro on his Instagram, like, Grant got some role in a movie. I'm like, my instant reaction is, oh, I'm jealous of Grant Cardone because he got a got a role in a movie with Robert De Niro.

And I'm like, no, like, that's possible. That should let that fuel me. Let me be happy for Grant that he got that and let that fuel me to the next level and be like that. If it's possible for him, it's definitely possible for me. What do you think, David? That's a great answer. Well, thank you.

Josh, you have a follow-up comment on that? No, no, I think, again, I think you guys nailed it pretty much with Brody. And it sounds like there's a lot of people who kind of share that same sentiment of, you know, being where we are and understanding that just because, like, you guys just had a guy on who's like 25 with like a million of real estate. And I just turned 30 and I'm like, oh, damn. I didn't that like being content. And David, you said something that I really like with Brody too is like having an attitude of gratitude and just being like, especially in the world we're living in right now, like we're breathing and we're doing things that so few can do, you know, depending on what their circumstances are. So, no, I mean,

I think you guys nailed it. And I really appreciate again, you guys doing this. This is super awesome. Well, thanks, man. I appreciate you jumping in. Hey, Grayson, welcome to the show. What can we do for you? Yeah, hey, thanks, guys. I've been a long time listener, read all the books and to have a really good problem. I'm so thankful is we just did our first Burr investment. But what do we do next? Like, I'm really overwhelmed with the opportunities before me. I'm a super connector. So I talk to people all the time and I'm always presenting things. And whenever I see a neat opportunity, I'm like, oh, we could take it that way. Like just today, I looked at a 300 unit multifamily building that I have no business even trying to purchase. But then, you know, yesterday I went through with my realtor to a

duplex so we could turn into a triplex. That'd be fun. Um, but he'd have to as a partner put up money. Like basically, there's all these great opportunities and I'm really overwhelmed with them and distracted by them. You know, like my business, I'm a remodeler. I do basements. It's really simple. I found that niche. It works really well for me. Um, but I'm finding that I'm just getting really distracted by all these, again, wonderful opportunities. Um, but it seems like every person I talk to has something that I could work with them on. And I get to a point where, you know, it's kind of analysis paralysis, I guess, except, you know, I haven't had to not make a decision yet. So we'll see. This is my life. Like the same thing. There's, there's so many

opportunities that are presenting themselves to me, to David, to you, to most people. And not necessarily, I mean, obviously, David and I have a have a leg up because we're on the podcast and people bring stuff to us. But does anybody with a growth mindset is looking around the world right now going, there is so much opportunity. everywhere right now. I mean, just in real estate alone, there's a million things you could do. And you can start a million different businesses and there's the world that shifting and changing. So how do you pick that next thing when there's so many good opportunities? And ones that like makes sense too, right? Like they're not random. They're not out of the blue.

They're really reasonable. You know, the apartment complex, forget that. But, you know, there's so many other reasonable opportunities. But like, you know, I'm just getting distracted, essentially. Yeah. So there's, I know exactly how you're feeling because I feel the same way. So here's how I look at it. Number one, I recognize the fact that it's more important that you decide than what you decide. Like, there is no script for your life that you're trying to figure out. There's not a hidden pot of gold in the beach that you're out there, like digging in the sand trying to find. You are an artist at a canvas. You can paint whatever you want.

It just doesn't matter. What matters is that you're happy doing it and that it's going to work, I suppose, right? So I believe, like, you'll be fine no matter what you do if you work at it hard enough. You know, like not every business of the world works, but you'll be fine. fine no matter what. So what do you want to do is the bigger question. And what I asked myself, and this was a couple of years ago, I said, what sounds amazing? What sounds amazing? And it doesn't matter what you answer that with. It's just, okay. So for me, I said, you know what sounds amazing was I saw my, and I've told the story many times, but I saw my buddy, Seth Mosley,

who owns a music production company in Nashville. I saw the way his company worked. He had five people. They were the top of their game. They were hanging out with each other, having fun, joking, doing meaningful work at like, again, like Grammy-winning people. And then after work, they got off when they wanted to get off. They'd go hang out together at the local restaurant. They had dinner with their families. And I was like, that is what I want. Like, I recognized something that sounded amazing.

And I went and literally built my business because of what I saw his time. No, a completely different company, right? Like, I have a real estate fund. He had a Grammy-winning music company. But the point was what I wanted was a group of people I could do, I could do business and life with and have a fun time doing it, doing meaningful work. So once I defined that, I then just worked backwards and I said, what's, what's my vision? Like, what, what do I, where do I want to get to?

So I set a three year vision. I want to have, in order to justify, in order to bring that result of the five people that work with me that are at the top of their game, that we're doing meaningful work and making money doing it and having fun, I would need to have this many properties, this much, whatever, this much, whatever. Now, there's a hundred ways I could have gotten there. I just picked one that sounded interesting, mobile home parks, right? So then now I had a three-year vision.

I worked it to an annual goal, worked it to a quarterly goal, worked it to a weekly goal, working to a daily goal, work it to a what's the most important next step to get there. And I aligned everything in this vertical that all lines up with a thing above it, and I was able to accomplish my goal within like a year instead of three years because it was all aligned there. Now, could I have done a hundred other opportunities, of course? And I had to say no to a lot of other stuff that could have been great. But I just keep reminding myself, it just doesn't matter what I do. So like I picked one thing and it worked and it's great.

It was exactly like I thought it would be and it was awesome. And now I'm working on my next three-year vision right now or five-year vision. So that said, when there's a lot of opportunities, this is where the bridge building is coming in. You know, when we say bridge building, we say, look, you're on one island and there's another island. We'll call it Success Island. You can build a bridge to get from where you are today, reality island to Success Island. Or you could build five bridges or you can build 10 bridges. but you're only one person. You can only build one bridge at a time. So what happens, right,

is that we build too many bridges over to that island. So the bigger problem with guys like you and I and David is not that we can't build the bridge. It's that we build too many and they don't get there. So if you're going to build a bridge, another one, like if you're tired of the basement thing, if you're, I mean, if that's just working, that bridge is already going, you're not that involved with it. It's already running itself. Great. And you want to build another bridge. What bridge can you build that is simply adding another lane rather than a whole entire new bridge. David, what do you think? I think that the first thing to recognize with this problem that you're having is there's probably a little bit of fear of missing out that you might be operating under this thought of

if I don't buy this apartment, someone else is going to get it. I'm not going to get another deal. And that's normal, especially when you're first getting into real estate investing and then after a time you realize there's always another deal. There's always another way to make a deal work. And so just having the faith to believe that another one's coming will sort of take the pressure off of you that you're feeling where it's kind of like a dog that doesn't want you to take away. It's food. You're looking at all this stuff. Like I have to go get all of it. So take a deep breath. Like Brandon said, breathe and just recognize the deals will never go away. Can I interrupt you real quick on something? There was an episode of the Tim Ferriss podcast where they interviewed Derek Sivers and we're Tim Inver Derek. And he told us like this story basically about doing too many things. Same kind of concept. But then he said this. It just changed my. my life. He said, look, if you're 30 years old right now, and like, I don't know how old you are, but you're probably somewhere in that vein, right?

Oh, do you guys? 35, yeah. Okay, perfect, right? So, if you're 30, you have your whole 30s. You could do an entire, you could do an entire like thing for 10 years of time. And then you have your 40s. You could do another entirely different thing. And then your 50s and then your 60s and then your 70s.

And most people that are today in their 30s and 40s are going to live to 100, at least if not 120, because of technology. improvements, right, to medical. So like, you could do an entirely new thing every decade and still got like seven more chances in your life to do a decade long thing. Like, I haven't even been doing the Bigger Pockets podcast for a decade. If I could reframe the question then, like you guys have processed this in my mind. I think it's a good next step question is, you know, quote, to quote a Jim Collins, you know, when it comes to these different ideas, and like I said, we just did a bird. It went great. It was actually out of state. Thank you, David, for your book that was

extremely helpful in out of state real estate investing. But when it comes to, you, comes to these different opportunities, I guess the real question is, you know, to quote Jim Collins, bullets versus cannonballs, you only have so many resources. How do I fire bullets at these different opportunities to see which one is maybe the one that really need to dive into before firing the cannonball? So what did that Byrd deal do for your financial future? Before we do the cash out refinance, we're doing about $800 a month cash flow. The cash out will be able to pull out about 70 grand. It'll still cash flow a couple hundred dollars a month with management and other fees. And it'll still have about 40 or 50,000 in equity. So you're making a couple hundred bucks a

month and you've got 40 or 50,000 equity and you can go to another one, right? Yes, exactly. If you do that twice a year for the next five years and you end up with 11 of these bird deals, or let's say 10, would that be enough money to change your life? Yeah. I mean, I guess the other side of it is like it's exciting. I think we live the life that we want right now, this remodeling company, I don't have any intention of catering it to that. And so really it's about the security of the long-term future and having the retirement fund as well as that. And then the excitement of the pursuit as well. These houses represent financial peace for you in retirement.

First off, they're not necessarily going to change your lifestyle is what you're telling you. You make enough money from your job and you're not going to quit your job, which is great. So make up your mind, how many of them actually make sense before it's diminishing returns? You don't want to have 200 single family houses. That becomes a whole job to manage them. Then look at how you can take your remodeling business. You've mentioned that several times, which tells me this is something that's important to you. And ask yourself, would I like to scale that?

Do I want to bring in more people to make it passive? Do I want to do a form of both? Scale it and make it more passive. Do I want to make enough money with that that I could go buy the 300 unit apartment building? You've got these pieces that I can tell are very important to you that you want to keep in your life. Now you need to ask yourself how you can make that a form of passive. income so you can go do all this other fun stuff because, Grayson, you're one of those guys that just wants to do everything and you're going to. Okay. You have to learn the skill of delegation and management

in order to be able to do everything. That would be the one thing that would benefit you immensely if you could get that down. Yeah, it's true of all of us, right? Well, all of us that want to do a million things. Some people are happy just doing one thing and that's not as important of a skill for them. Yeah, it sounds nice. Real quick, Grayson. One more question I want to ask you related to this stuff. Your basement business, would it be like, this is going to sound counterintuitive to what we teach in bigger pockets about getting into real estate. But would it be easier for you to take your basement business and 10x that over the next five years and then sell that business than for you to get into real estate? Because I feel like you already have a really solid bridge there.

Yeah, no. And that's, I mean, I'm in northern Colorado. They're building six or seven thousand homes a year. That's a lot of basements. You know, all I do is new houses. And so the scaling is there. I've built it to scale and I've built it to sell. But also when opportunities, I wasn't intending to get into real estate investing, this opportunity fell in her lap. I was literally pumping the brakes on purpose because I didn't feel like it was the right time. But now that I've dove in, you know, I've tasted the blood, if you will. You know, it's not the right way of putting it, I suppose. But now it's like, man, that was a lot of fun.

I got to do with my family. You know, my kids got to see the whole process. And it's like, you know, okay, yeah, basements, it's providing and it's a very important, you know, to continue that and to continue growing it. However, you know, just as a lifestyle, even the investing is something I feel like a lot more excited about involving my family. Yeah, that makes sense. And the reason I ask is because a lot of people, it's like they already have this really scalable, it sounds like you do, a scalable, amazing business. And they're more bored with it than anything. And so I just would, I challenge people often is to think like, how can you just double,

triple, quadruple that instead? Forget Burr, forget a couple, you know, a couple hundred dollars a month. It's, it's useless compared to what you're going to get in your other business. Not, I don't know your business, but let's just say it's like percentage wise useless compared to that, right? Get your business cranking out a million or $2 million a year and extra profit. Dump that into real estate, but not stop playing with the $100 a month, $200 a month, birthings and go take your family and be like, hey, guys, I'm going to, as a family,

we're going to buy a 300 unit apartment complex this year. Cash. Like, that sounds fun, doesn't it? Like, that's not like, it's the same thing. It just adds some zeros to it. And you have the ability to be able to skip what most people have to go a decade through because you already have a leg up. So I guess the encouragement is just to think about that is, could you instead put all your effort into double downing on your business and then generate the profit to go into bigger real estate deal is not the small stuff. So just something to think about. I'm not sure which way is right for you, but just a challenge from thinking there. No, that's good. Thank you. Appreciate it. Cool, man. Well, thank you for coming on today. And with that said, let's bring in

one more question asker today. What's up, Roberto? How are you doing? Good, good. So I live in Michigan. I'm going to be a new agent. Cross my fingers on March 18th. I take the exam. I also want to invest and I have a full-time job. Am I taking on too much? Or should I just focus on doing the real estate thing? Great question. So the question is basically Roberto wants to, am I saying that good? Roberto? Do you like it? Everybody calls me burdo. Burdo. Berto? All right. Burdo. Much easier. All right. So Burdo's wondering, he's getting his real estate license, also has a W-2 job and wants to invest in real estate. Is that too much? A very timely question for a lot of people, because people right now, they work, they're working a full-time job,

and they're like, I got to make more money. We'll be in a real estate agent. It's a good way to do that. but they really want to invest long term in rental properties or whatever because that makes like passive income. Is it too much? Is it too many bridges to use an analogy we talked about earlier to try to get there? David, why you start this one? Okay. So, man, how do I want to get into this? Let's talk about the trajectory of success, right?

Most people assume success. If you have a graph, right? Like success would be going up and time would be going sideways. Then it's going to be just the more time you spend, the more success you have, that it will be even. That's what it's like in the W2 world. The more hours you work, the money you make is proportional. When it comes to getting good at something, it typically looks like this. It just goes really, really slow.

You don't really get any better. And then at a certain point, you figure it out and it just scales really fast. Anything you do, you're going to have a really long period of time that you just aren't very successful at it until you get it figured out. The problem with building a million bridges is you're going through that phase where you don't get anywhere all at the same time. and you never actually get any of them to scale. And it takes three times longer in that phase because you're working a third at each time. Yeah, it's like downloading 10 movies at the same time on your laptop. You're better off to download one and watch it while the next one's downloading.

That's a good analogy. So part of this question. The legal pirating movies up, internet analogy. I like it. Yes, exactly. Please don't tell the FBI. I use that. The part of answering this question is you got to be able to figure out how much time do you have in a day and how quickly can you get to the point.

we call it the inflection point where you start to become successful. So you've got a full-time job right now. You want to invest and you want to be an agent. I would say keep working your full-time job. And while you are there, talk about real estate nonstop with everybody that will listen to you. Make them excited about real estate. Make them think of you when it comes to real estate. You will start to generate leads at your agent business while you're at work.

So it's not, am I doing this or that. You're literally doing both of them. And that period of time where you're just waiting to get leads and you're talking and you're not actually getting anything, you're still getting paid because you're going to work. At a certain point, you'll start to see success. Leeds will start to come in. People will start to hit you up about buying a house.

You'll work with them. Then you get to go through a whole other period of learning how to be an agent. What do I do with these people? How do I convert them? At the point where you are now closing more deals than you have time to do, you can leave your job and be a full-time agent.

You should now be making enough money that you can move on to going and being a real estate investor while being an agent. And there's a lot of synergy between those. That is how I would structure that. I wouldn't try to do all three with equal effort at the same time. Make sure every time you meet someone and you have a good rapport, you get their contact info, you put it in a CRM and you make a purposeful effort to stay in touch with those people. I would also push anybody who's doing multiple things because sometimes it's unavoidable. You have a job that you would like to get out of. You need to make income. So maybe you have to be a real estate agent at the same time. I would really encourage you to be

thinking are the, because you don't, you don't have a million hours a week, right? You really got to get that agent business into like 20 hours a week because you don't, you just don't have more time than that, right? So is every hour the most impactful thing you can possibly be doing for that business? Like, are you, are, are you really doing the actions toward that thing that's going to get you like, what are like, David, as an agent, I'm not an agent, but as an agent, what are like the things that like, what's a $10,000 on our task that they should be definitely, definitely, definitely doing it. Asking someone, do you know anyone that wants to buy or sell a house? All right. So if you're not asking 50 people a week that question, that's probably not the most, like, that's the thing that you should be doing, right?

If you're making business cards or if you're like making a flyer, making a flyer, if you're at another sales meeting at the office, I don't know, whatever. There's a lot of things that make people feel like they're doing busy work. Or doing work when really it's busy work. The same applies for real estate. There's nothing wrong with trying to build your portfolio at the same time as being an agent and doing your job. But like the thing you're doing your real estate investing, like you should be doing the most impact. impactful thing for that. Like, are you analyzing a deal? Are you adding, like, are you talking with a real estate agent? Are you making an offer? Are you sending out a direct mail letter? Like, it's like things like things like, things like, you can invest in real estate with like probably

three hours a week, two hours a week, one hour a week. It doesn't take that much time if you're just doing those really important tasks. For example, if like you just analyze one deal every day that your agent sent you from the MLS and you just ran the numbers on it, five minutes every day for five days a week, That's 25 minutes a week. That's true. And that could land you a deal, right? So, yeah, I think you can totally do all three if you wanted to, but you're not going to do all three well.

So make sure you're focusing on the ones you can do best. That's awesome. I appreciate it. Good question, though. Thanks for that, Roberto. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. All right, let's get to the last question of the day before David and I get out of here

because this shed is hot. I can hear you, Ben. Welcome to the show, man. Awesome. David Brandon. How's it going? Hey, love you guys. I'm a huge fan.

Thanks. Stoke to be here. I really mean it. I think I've got the OG version here, Brandon. So anyway, shout out to you guys that I'm loving. Holy cow. Ben sounds like he should be hosting this podcast right now, doesn't be? Yeah, he's got that quality. It's great. I don't know that I'll ever be able to live up to the analogies, though, that you're able to throw down. No one can. No one can. I know. It's quite ridiculous and awesome. Anyway, look, Brandon, I know this topic's been brought up many multiple times on the show, which I've listened to almost every episode. still working on getting there just catching up on past episodes but um the question is about mindset of this of your spouse yeah and i and i know it's been talked about so i was kind of hoping to do a little bit of a unique uh angle on this and that is your own personal experience which you've

talked about briefly on a number of shows um but i'm curious you know at some point in the past you know you you and you and your wife agreed to swap books and and i believe yeah she gave you this yes there it is twilight yes i read all of twilight just to get my wife to read rich dad poor dad yeah to be clear this is my wife's copy oh sure it is ben yep yeah yeah your secret safe with us in the quarter of people listening right now anyway you got her to read rich dad porter i'm curious like did that actually change her mindset like i know it's kind of baby steps and it was probably and it's been a long time no it's been many many years now and i'm curious like has it continued to change like over time and um and do you feel that um like

your mindset is still kind of on a different plan because i think a lot of us like you know we want to know, like that we're not alone in this in this struggle, right? Like I'm like, I'm the constantly learning, constantly listening, constantly reading, constantly educating. And so anyway, I'd love to get your experience on that and how it's been kind of over time now that you've had many years to reflect on how that change has occurred. Sure. Yeah. I think you nailed it right when you just said, you want to know that you're not in it alone. And I think for that, I think that's the bigger issue for most married couples when they're like, I can't get my spouse on the same page. What they're really saying is I can't get my spouse to be a partner slash cheerleader for me.

But what I find, so first of all, I find that like, I don't need Heather to be my partner or cheerleader on this. Like, I'm not going to do anything against her will, but I don't need her to like, like, come, you know, take half the business, do that work, right? So I don't, like, if she wants to help, great. And she does want to help. And after reading Richetteette Porta, it really did start to change her mindset. Now, it wasn't an overnight thing, but she was like, oh, I get it.

I get what you're doing. And I get like this idea that there's more to work than a nine to five for the next 50 years, that it's okay to take some risks that that passive income is a real thing, that their little oil wells pumping out money, like all that she got by reading rich dad, poor dad, and then the conversations we had. What was probably more important was just getting the terminology like in her head so we could have the conversations easier. So it wasn't just me explaining some crazy idea I had about getting rich through real estate.

It was like, no, this is like a real thing people do. Now, in the meantime, what does that, what does that do? I mean, over time, so like Heather, a lot of people know, she started managing our rental properties. She took a lot, she read a ton of books on managing. She built all of our systems, our forms, had everything together. That's why we wrote the book on managing rental properties together. But since having kids, she has really phased out of a lot of it. She still talks to her mom almost every single day.

She still, you know, her mom manages a lot of our like local stuff in Washington. So she still handles a lot of the day-to-day stuff in terms of like a quick text to her. mom or to our property managers or whatever. But she has not scaled with me in terms of open door capital or all the things we've done there. And so I guess where I'm getting at that is like it, she was a part of it for a long time and then she kind of went away. And then honestly, right now in our life, we're looking at buying some condos. David kind of inspired us to buy some condos here in Maui. And so we're looking at this condo as a vacation rental and it got her like re-inspired. It's like, oh, we could do this and we could design this way and we could paint

this wall this way and she's like totally back into it again. And so what I'm doing as I'm leaning into that. Like I'm, I don't say I'm giving her that, but like in a way, I'm like giving her that. Like I'm like, oh, this is fine. Like we always say follow the fire. But follow your spouse's fire too. She had fire for property management. So I like, I led into that and let her let that be her thing. And today I'm letting the vacation rental be her thing. And she's going to manage the entire rehab of that vacation rental herself. I'm not even going to touch it. Like I even told her, I'm going to see if I can just never show up one time to the entire rehab, not once. And like, And she's like, rising to the occasion now is all excited about it.

And so anyway, I'm not sure if that answers that question at all, but that's just kind of our past. It does. And it's really great. But you mentioned early on, like she kind of started taking initiative and wanted to get involved. And, you know, I don't, I'm a little bit indifferent of whether or not my wife actually gets involved in the investing personally.

I just, you know, I want her to really understand kind of where my mind's at so that she thinks about money. Because I think the biggest takeaway I've had from Rich, I'm Porta, is money mindset, right? literally the way that I think about money. And I'm just curious, you know, how you kind of, you know, cultivated that, that growth in her. And again, just kind of allowing her to be herself and choose what she wanted to be involved with.

And then real quick, real quick. And then David, next for you, you have kind of a unique perspective, you know, as a friend of a friend of brand for many years now, being able to look in from the outside. And I'm just curious, like, what you've learned and what advice you can kind of give just from your own perspective on seeing that relationship change and grow. over time with Brandon's, you know, specifically Brandon's experience. You are a professional, Ben, because I'm not married. I'm unfortunately single. So now you found a way

to incorporate me into this question. Very good. So my relationship with Brandon, I would say, I think, and this is not me just saying this because I'm on the podcast, Brandon and Heather have the best relationship of anybody. If my friends are listening to this, I saw Daniel Dale Real, you're on here. You have a great one too. Brandon and Heather are next level. I do not know a more attentive, humble, servant-minded person than Brandon. And Heather is incredibly supportive. So, I mean, they're freaks. Like, I don't think any other people could do what Brandon and Heather do to be, to be honest with you. Sometimes when you give advice, it's like Arnold Schwarzenegger's prime giving weightlifting advice. Like, okay, cool. What am I ever going to do with that?

We had an argument the other night. Like, we argue sometimes. Yeah, and it was like they had a harsh tone or something like that, right? I would say that what Brandon does really, really well is he's very, very aware of how his actions affect other people. And he does not push anyone further than what they want to be pushed at. So rather than try to force his, Heather to go along with what he's doing, he will say, here's what I want to do. Let's talk about what role you're going to play in it. So Heather's making the decision if she wants to be there or not. He does that every time. So Heather never feels like she gets left out. And he always checks with her. So she never feels like she's getting dragged along. That's probably the best advice I can share for the masses if you

actually want to have a good relationship like what Brandon has while doing crazy new stuff and going through growth all the time. Well, Ben, thank you for coming on and asking the final question of the day. Awesome. Everyone else, thank you for joining us today for those people who are watching this thing live. Thank you for jumping on for those who had questions we didn't get to. I apologize. We'll do a lot more of these Q&As in the future. This is kind of fun having me and David sitting here answering questions. And yeah, if you thought this was good, let us know. Go and comment wherever you're watching this. Like, if you're listening to on a podcast, go over to our Instagram, whether it's the BiggerPockets, Instagram, or Beardy Brandon.

Let us know you like this. We'll be posting clips on our Instagrams and on our Facebooks about this show. A lot of these Q&A will be posting. And yeah, let us know if you're, you could also go to biggerpockets.com slash show 453. Again, biggerpockets.com slash show 453. Leave a comment there. We'll be checking those. And then, of course, if you're watching this on YouTube, you can leave a comment in the YouTube section as well.

and let us know if you like this format. We'll be doing more of them, I think, if you did. So with that said, I'll let my co-host here, my fellow host, David. Wow, wow, I got a promotion. Apparently that butt-kissing line about the relationship worked. My fellow host, we're both co-host. That's the thing. I'm a co-host, you just never call me that.

I'm calling you a host. For the first time ever, I'm being acknowledged. See, this is why he's good with relationships because he pays attention. I'll let my fellow host get us out of here. All right, this is David Green for Brandon, the relationship God Turner. Signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com.

Your home for real estate investing online. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K. Copywriting is by Calico content, and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter,

please visit www.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk. So use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. BiggerPockets LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential, or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast.