BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 472: Here’s What You SHOULDN’T Do When Long-Distance Investing

Episode Date: May 27, 2021

Nick Lamagna wasn’t planning on getting into real estate investing. When he finished college he knew that he wanted to go into law enforcement to help with counter-terrorism. He scored well on all the tests needed to be a great candidate for his dream job, but when he suffered a permanent hand injury, he was disqualified from working in law enforcement. During a period where Nick didn’t know what he was going to do, his mom forced him to read Rich Dad Poor Dad, which (like many of our listeners) changed his view on making money and having a career. After the initial interest was sparked, Nick started tackling real estate deals outside of his native state of New York. He faced challenges with getting mortgages, so he partnered with other real estate investors. He needed more cash, so he started wholesaling. The 2008 housing market crash happened, so he decided to start flipping. And now, Nick is going into bigger deals like commercial real estate and mobile home parks. Nick’s advice to new investors: think creatively, get comfortable with being uncomfortable, be in constant contact with your team, and don’t stick to one strategy. In This Episode We Cover: Long-distance real estate investing when your local market is too expensive  Building a buyers list for wholesaling and networking  Partnering with others who can finance real estate purchases  Why communication is key when doing long-distance renovations  Turning your weaknesses into your greatest strengths  And SO much more! Links from the Show 27 Interior & Exterior Preventative Maintenance Tasks for Rentals (Article) BiggerPockets Youtube Channel Brandon's Guesting on Nick's Podcast LoopNet BiggerPockets Podcast 461: Defeating the “Enemy of Success” with Steven Pressfield (The War of Art) Check the full show notes here: http://biggerpockets.com/show472 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 472. Talked about Jiu-Jitsu, but you get put in a tough spot and you go, hey, you know, what do I do? Do I roll over or do I find a way to, you know, get out of this and get back on top? So I've always pride of myself on like, I don't care if, like, what happened. It was my responsibility. People, they don't really know anything about the property. They invested in me because they trusted me. So I have to find a way to get out of this and turn this around.

You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on in one is Brandon Turner, host of the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, Mr. David Green. What's up, David? Didn't have a good nickname for you. Sorry.

That's okay, because I'm having a really good day. I think I found some of them I'm going to hire to be the portfolio manager for my properties and I'm going to start scaling up short-term rentals. So I'll be getting into that game a little bit. And a few other good hires have come in. So someone was asked me the other day, I just closed on that big Minnesota property. And they were saying like, how is it? How do you feel about it? And I said, at this point, I'm just so much happier if I get a good person that I am if I got a good property because one person can manage 100 properties that, like, that's the stuff that gets me excited now. Yeah, people are the asset. Yes, that's a great way to put it. All right, man. Well, very,

very cool. Yeah, the short-term rental thing. I just closed on my condo and begin to be doing some rehab stuff on it here. Oh, the one we went and looked at, or that complex? Yep, same place. We're both short-term. We're playing with that. Now we have to coordinate our attack a little bit. So, yes. It'll be fun. All right, well, with that said, let's get to today's quick tip. If you're listening to the show when it comes out, it's coming out in the springtime, which means there are probably a number of preventative maintenance things you should be doing on your rental properties if you own rentals. And I know a lot of you're going, ugh, like they're kind of like,

cringing right now because you know you need to do it and you haven't done it. So, in fact, I am even going to put a list on the show notes page. You go to biggerpockets.com slash show 472. Again, biggerpockets.com slash show 472. There'll be a link there to a blog article called 27 interior and exterior, preventative maintenance tasks for rentals. I want you to take that list. I want you to print it out.

And I want you to go through and do a half of them. right now over the next couple weeks. You don't have to personally do them. You can hire someone if you want to, but get it done because that is going to extend the life of your property. And a lot of us just go years without thinking of this stuff. But it's better to do it a little bit at a time. So there you go.

You ever head out on a trip, lock your door, and think, cool, my most valuable asset is now doing absolutely nothing. Because while you're off traveling, your home is just sitting there. Quiet, empty, not contributing, which feels like a missed opportunity, considering it has solid Wi-Fi and a very comfy bed. With Airbnb's co-host network, your place can earn money while you're away. You can hire a vetted local co-host with real hosting experience to handle guest messages,

prep your space, and manage reservations so everything runs smoothly. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. Did you know your house gets bored when you leave? I can't actually prove that, but it probably misses out on the action, the footsteps, the late-night fridge raids. Yeah, when you're gone, your place is basically. basically on unpaid leave. It's sitting there in the dark thinking, I could be contributing

right now. Your side room wants a side hustle. Even your Wi-Fi is like, we could be networking. You're on vacation, spending money like it's a sport while your staircase at home is fully capable of sending your income upwards. Here's the twist. You can go on a trip and actually earn money. Airbnb makes that possible with the co-host network. If you're away for a while or have a secondary property, you can hire a vetted local co-host with real hosting experience to handle it all. A co-host can handle guest communications, it can manage reservations and keep things running smoothly so you don't have to check your phone between beach days. That means less stress and more time enjoying your trip. You can relax, knowing guests are taking care of and your place is in good

hands. You travel, your house works. Everyone wins. If you're ready to host but could use some help, find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. Here's the thing about traveling. If you buy food at the airport, a burrito, salad, bag of peanuts, you start wondering if you should have opened a savings account for snacks. So wouldn't it be great if you could actually earn money while you're traveling? Well, you can. Airbnb has something called the co-host network.

While you're away, you can hire a vetted local co-host with hosting experience to help take care of things, communicating with guests, preparing your space, managing reservations. Everything runs smoothly while you're off making memories. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. Today's guest is Nick LaMagna. It's like lasagna, he told me to say, but not quite. And he is a awesome dude. He's got a podcast, but he's also a legit real estate investor. He's done over 100 deals. Routinely makes six figures on a single deal, like on a wholesale or a whole tale. You'll learn more about that later. So he talks about how he's done that. He talks about investing at a distance. We spent a long time talking about how to

invest at a distance, whether it's flipping, burr, rentals, wholesaling. You can do all that at a distance. If you just follow some of the key principles he brings up today, we talk a lot about failure, some of the problems that he's had where he's lost money and the lessons he learned that can make sure you don't make those same mistakes. So that and more to come. And with that said, I think it's time to get into our interview with Nick. But hey, real quick, if you're watching this on YouTube, Do me a favor. Don't forget to click that little thumbs up button to let the world know this is a good video.

Leave a comment below for Nick. If you have questions, he'll be check in the comments and subscribe to our YouTube channel. That helps us, you know, reach more people. The more people subscribe, the more people YouTube is like,

oh, they're a good channel. And we want you to be aware of all the good content coming out on our channel as well. So hit that little subscribe button. I think that's all I got. So with that said, let's move on. Nick, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast, man.

How you doing? Doing great, man. I'm really excited to be here, big fans of both of you guys. I appreciate everything you guys do. Thanks for having me on. Well, thanks, man. Well, I got to tell you, so I was on Nix podcast.

What's your podcast called? Give it a shout out. The A Game Podcast. All right, the A Game podcast. And I was on there and I, and you did this intro. You read this intro for me. And it was the best intro, anybody in any podcast I've ever been on has ever done. It was so good.

And I was like, I felt like I was at an MMA fight. And like, I was fighting. It was awesome. So ever since then I've been trying to replicate. So people have noticed an uptick in our intros. That's all because of you. So thank you. I appreciate that. I'm glad I could have some sort of positive impact.

Yeah, there you go. All right. Well, with that said, let's get into your real estate. I mean, we can talk MMA and black, you know, black belt jujitsu, all that all day long. But I want to know about how you got into real estate investing. What was your life before that? And how did you decide, yeah, I'm going to do real estate. You know, it was like most things in my life, I think it all kind of fell by accident. I was scooting around and just went to college to kind of hang out and drink and party with my friends. And then I didn't really have much of a purpose. And then after September 11th, I went upstate to college to school.

SUNY Albany and upstate New York, and I decided I want to switch my major to criminal justice, and I want to do something that's going to serve some sort of purpose for, you know, like David, be a police officer. I wanted to be an air marshal, do something federal, something with counterterrorism. So I tested for everything you can think of with three or four letters, FBI, DEA, NYPD, ATF, you know, anything like that. And when I graduated, there was a process to go in. So I started doing construction, hoping that I would get into the Carpins Union and help rebuild a freedom tower at that time. And while I was doing construction, I suffered an unfolding machinery, a permanent hand injury, and it sidelined everything.

And I went through about a year, two years of physical therapy, occupational therapy, and then all these jobs started calling me back. And they said, hey, your number's up. You know, I scored pretty high on most of these, so it should have been like an easy thing to get in. And then because of my hand injury, they made me retest. And then after all that, they disqualified me saying that there was like a 0.001% chance because of my injury. I was a liability on paper.

So I would never get a job in law enforcement. So at that point, I was kind of just bumming around and depressed. I had lost my identity. I had lost what I thought my path in life was, my purpose. I had no money coming in. You know, I felt like a physical and emotional and financial failure. And then my mom forced me to read the book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, which is, you know, how a lot of people just start out.

And I saw that you can get into real estate with no experience, no money, no credit. I didn't have any of those things. So I started just going into different classes and seminars and kind of dug right in. And I accidentally decided that real estate was the way I wanted to go, because when that happened, everything was taken away from me. And I really just got a beat into my head of if I want to do something with my life, I never want to put myself in a position that if something happens to me, it's up to somebody else how I'm going to make my money.

And wind up kind of just digging in full time and never look back. Let me jump in real fast. Nick, do you feel like your hand injury had a big role in that feeling of I don't want to leave my life up to chance? A thousand percent. You know, it's interesting because looking back, there's definitely a lot of things in my life that I feel like I would have changed. And I think most people think that that would be one that I could be like, hey, I wish I didn't use that machine that day.

But I think the amount of doors that it's open for me, the way it shifted my mind. And even looking back, I wasn't really happy with who I was as a person and how I acted and where my morals were. I feel like it was obviously a very important lesson. But I feel like it was necessary. And because of that, it shifted things and changed things that weren't even about me. I mean, you fast forward six, 12 months after I started getting into real estate, both my parents lost their jobs. And there was no income coming in except for what I was doing. So, you know, there's been a lot of other people along the way that my real estate journey has helped with whatever inspiring them or helping them financially or helping get them into it.

So that 1,000% was responsible for, I never would have met the people in my life that are some of the most amazing people, some of my closest friends, you know, some of the greatest experiences I've ever had. I don't know if I would have gotten into jiu-jitsu. I'd probably just be a cop in New York City miserable. I mean, who knows? It's really responsible for everything that I'm about today, that everything good in my life has come from that. terrible experience. Powerful reminder, too, that sometimes the things that we go through in life that we're thinking, oh, that's going to hold me back or that's the thing that's going to hurt me. Those are the things that actually lead us toward the future we were meant to have anyway.

So it's a good picture of that. So what was real estate like? What was the first deal? Would you do? You know, I was, again, I was no money, no credit, no experience. And I was trying to get involved in real estate in New York City. And it was super competitive and very expensive. So for me, I felt like it was a little more, a little less risky, a little more possible if I started. to go into these other markets. So I started investing virtually before it was like the cool thing to do because I just for my own mental belief, I said, you know what? I don't feel like I can do a $600,000 two-bedroom home on Long Island, but I do feel like I can buy a $45,000 home in and sell it for $150, or I could buy a $30,000 home in Detroit, put $25 in and then refinanced out. So

I was trying to do the birth strategy a lot when I first started out, but I couldn't get approved for any loans because I was on disability. So I had to go and find other people and it was interesting because I I'm always trying to find like the way to use things to a positive which I think you know any successful person does but I had a couple of friends that were bragging they were the you know the big malice at the bar all the time I got money I got credit I got this I got that like the like they were members of the Sopranos and I was like you know what I should see if they want to fund one of my deals and I kind of like trapped them and I was

like hey you got this credit you got this money you know you're you're not scared anything right you should sign on this deal and we'll partner and I'll do the whatever and I'll pay you so I went up kind of starting LLCs with people that did have money and they did have credit. And then the hard money lenders would give us loans based on the LLC. Because now that it was part of that, it wasn't really about me. It was about the package as a whole. And I had the experience and the resources.

So I would do the work. I would pay them either out of the refinance, out of the sale, or out of the cash flow. And I wound up doing a few. Like, you know, again, it was like at the worst time to get involved in real estate because it was right when all those anything goes types of deals were going on. But then within the six months after that, they were shutting doors on me. So I did like three deals in Vegas that they cut me a check at closing for money back. And it was all like all the stuff you would never want to do now with like the liars loans and the

stated income. But I took the money that they gave me as the down payments on those houses and used them to get into what I needed to get into the burr properties with the hard money loans. So I had like eight deals going like that that were three rentals and then five rehabs. And then I was going to go pull the cash out. But then all of a sudden they said, no, the economy's in the dumps now. Now we're not going to let you do a cash out refinance. but we'll let you do a rate in term.

And then they started going, well, no, we're not going to let you do the rate in term anymore because, you know, you guys got money based on this LLC as a whole, but Chase's bank wants to give it based on you and you still don't have any money, any credit. So it was really tough and I had to do a lot of restructuring and get creative with stuff. But that's when I started getting into wholesaling because I had a mentor at the time. And he was like, man, stop trying to keep buying properties when you're not able to pull the cash out yet, like get some cash. And so begrudgingly, I wholesale the deal to show him that it couldn't be done.

and I wound to making money on it, and I just kind of got into that and started wholesale in portfolios and that. But those initial first, like, eight deals were just money back at closing basic rentals and then some Burr properties that I got into with some credit partners, some cash down, and did some rehabs on them. What was the first city that you started investing in, and why did you pick that city? You know, I think it was either Detroit, I think I was doing Detroit, Vegas and Atlanta, all like right around the same time. I kind of just jumped in. But the way I was doing it was there was other people I knew that were investing in those cities. And they had given us like 10 to pick from, which actually all wound up being outstanding. I was like Kansas City and like

Colorado and Denver and a lot of these markets before they were really big. So in hindsight, but I just started picking all of them and just bombing them with offers. So because I was home on disability, I was like, I remember like, EFax came out and I was like, this is going to change technology. It'll never get better than an EFax. And I was like, I can EFax offers. This is amazing. But I was putting out like two, two, three hundred offers in each of these markets, just dealing with nothing but realtors and brokers. And they, I mean, I was getting angry letters back. People would write like curses on the contracts and fax them back to me and tell me to go screw myself. And so there was a ton of rejection, but the way I wound up actually picking the markets was because those were

the ones that I caught fishing. So I think it was just kind of like, I'm going to toss out these fishing lines as many as I possibly can in all these markets as much as I can. And I'm just going to basically see what I catch. And based on what I caught, I started digging in a little bit deeper and say, okay, I got one under contract here. Let's dig in. Now let's put the team together. Now let's really look the market. Now let's see if this is something we can repeat. And that was really how I did my business until very recently was just throwing stuff at the wall, seeing what sticks and then hyper-focusing once I had something stuck. So what did the next few years look like? I mean, you started buying these properties. You said 0-708-09 came. So through the recession, how did you, how did you, I mean,

I kind of heard how you pivoted, right? So you started wholesaling a little bit. Is that what you did all through the recession until we got out of that? Or what did the next five years look like? Yeah, you know, I got out of those. I negotiated some deals with the hard money lenders, which was very interesting at the time. They were taking like pennies to just get out of the deals because I guess, you know, what was going on with the investors they had borrowed the money from.

And then I started getting into wholesaling. We started wholesaling some single family stuff. It was a lot of like cash flow properties, nothing like really big wholesale fees to write home about. And then we started, me and a couple of partners in mind, what we were doing was finding packages of properties and then trying to sell them off to cash buyers as portfolio. So we did a few of those, kind of got that going.

And then, you know, within I think around like 2009-ish, maybe 2010, all of a sudden we started seeing, I remember I linked up with this guy and he's like, man, we're flipping properties all over Southern California. And I was like, but you can't flip properties. Like that's not the way the market is. And they was like, no, no, no, like things change. There's these FHA loans now and all the people two years ago that lost their homes can basically buy the same home now for half the price that they couldn't get the loan mods on two years ago, as long as they have a 660 credit score or above. They can get him for three and a half percent down. So that really started switching it back to really pivoting and picking up some of these

properties and just getting back into flipping for a couple of years. So I went from like trying to burr and do creative deals and then went into wholesaling and then pivoted back into flipping single family homes to get some cash and some experience back up. And then from there, like over the last three years, just transitioned into accidentally into like multifamily and some mobile home park wholesaling and some land development stuff. And it's been an interesting ride. But it's all really happened by accident, just kind of naturally falling into these deals because over the over the years of doing so many different things and meeting so many different people. I've always just been open and I've always just like people say, hey man, would you want this?

Would you look at this? Would you look at a mobile home park? And I go, well, I mean, today I'm not looking for that, but you don't send it to me, man. If it's a great deal, let me look at it. And who knows, maybe I know somebody that's looking for it. And that's kind of what always happened was some guy would call me and say, hey, man, I don't want your portfolio. I don't want your multifamily or I don't want your single family home. I only buy mobile home parks.

And like that morning, somebody goes, hey, I know you don't want mobile home parks, but I got one. And I'm like, well, hold on, hold on. And then I kind of just like, well, I'll pair him up here and I'll do that. And, you know, from there, every time I would move a property, I would just advertise it. And then you get, you know, 100, 200, 300 people that call you want it through whatever website you're posting it on. A lot of tire kickers, but you'll get five or 10 people that make solid offers with proof of funds that know exactly what you want. And they give you their criteria. And now it's like, okay, well, I sold that one.

But now I have nine other people that have cash that know exactly what they want for this deal. I'm going to go out and now find them those deals. And anything I negotiate past the return that they want is profit in my pocket. So that's really been my focus is for the last couple of years from there is just offer one or two bigger deals. You wind up with these serious buyers of people that are going, find me another one of those, and there's a lot of money to be made there. And I feel like it's easier because instead of me just saying, hey, this is a deal who wants it,

the term a deal could mean anything. Now I have somebody that I know it's qualified, that's serious that's giving me their exact criteria. So it gives me more of a target to go after and helps me not waste my time or theirs. I love this. I love that. I just want to point out this concept that you're doing is, You're finding deals, like you're doing some wholesaling in this process.

And then as you like get a deal that you want to wholesale, you market it all over the internet or all over wherever you can get it. And you're basically building your buyer's list by doing that. And now you're able to connect with the serious people and say, what are you looking for? And now you can go out and hunt for those people. So it begins with kind of like, it begins like you're walking in the woods with a gun. You're like, I don't know what's out here. Right.

And then like you find something. You find a deer. You kill it. You bring it back to the lodge. And as a bunch of guys are, well, I'm not looking for deer. I'm looking for rabbits. Okay, I'm going to go find you a rabbit. You go out there and find that rabbit.

David, on a scale one to ten, how good was that analogy? Was that pretty terrible? I feel like that was like a seven in my mind. It's good. It put an image in my mind of Elmer Fudd walking around with this little pop gun. And no one wants to have the, yeah, nobody wants that. That was good. I thought that was really good.

Yeah. But I guess what you're getting at here is the skills required to get a deer versus a rabbit are very similar. It's just a different target you're looking for. You maybe change a little bit about your strategy to take it. down. But if you're good at one, you're probably going to be good at the other. So when you're out in the woods looking at deals, why not be able to take down different deals? I want to shift in a minute over to the larger deals, especially the wholesaling, the bigger deals. I'm fascinated by that. And it's something I have not done a lot of. But when we're talking like the pre-current Nick,

so when you were doing the flips and the wholesales and like the single family and the portfolios, if you had to guess, how many, I mean, how many of these did you do over that, over that span of when you got started to when you got into the larger multifamily. Like how many are we talking here? Like dozens? I've done definitely over a hundred total. I don't really know. There was a little bit of a point that I slowed down in that transition because I was taking some beatings when the market turns. So, you know, I call it like, you know, property traumatic stress syndrome from when everything kind of went south. But then things started picking back up. I mean, we were at one point, me and a couple of my partners, we had at some point like 20 at a time per month in different stages

from whether they were under contract or being flipped or being sold, you know, and some fill out here and there. But we had a pretty good pipeline going of the actual like single family flips for a while in multiple different markets, which is pretty cool. But I think part of what you and I had talked about this too, but it was good for being a real estate strategy that I could say, you know what? I have, you know, three to five flips going in Delaware, three to five flips going in Pennsylvania, three to five flips go. And that's pretty cool. We can have like 10, 15, 20 flips going at a time. But then when those are done, you have to kind of rebuild. And I was basically, again, deal specific, not market specific, wherever the deal popped up

is where I would go in. But as you and I were talking about really building a business, I'm starting to realize more and more that I want to build a deeper hole, not a wider hole, because then I can, like, I don't have to keep training new realtors and training new contractors and building new teams and learning new markets and figuring out the good in the bad pockets. So that's really why I tried to pull back a little bit and restructure to focus more on one, one area for the single family homes, which is what I'm doing. now in the Chicago suburbs, but while that's building, I take a lot of my time to really dig into

some of those bigger deals because that takes a lot more of my time, but it's got a lot of a bigger pay. And I enjoy it more, too. Yeah, that's cool. So we're all these long distance or were you doing any of where you lived? No, everything was long distance. I think we only did one flip ever in New York while I lived there, and it was at upstate New York and I never even, I never even saw it. So, you know, from the beginning, it was always easier to me. And my tendency, like everybody else, Hey, I want to do the first one in my backyard. I want to go see it. And then I'll go and no, like you're not going to break those habits.

So for me, as I was really upset when I first started investing and I realized like I can't go see these houses every day. I can't try and do the work myself. Not that I was good with it anyway. But that wanted to being a blessing in disguise because I learned to have to put processes in place to manage remote teams. Who knew the world was going to turn into this, you know, however many years later. So I learned to look at data and I learned to put things in place to really keep eyes

on things without having to be involved. it every single day, which has helped me huge in business and in real estate now since then. So even if I did have a property that was kind of around the corner right now, I most likely wouldn't be taking the time to go see it or do it because it's just, you know, you have those processes in place and those systems of checks and balances. Like the, you know, we had a multifamily and it was just, I try and train people to do very, very basic things and have a system of checks and balances for, like, can you handle the most basic of tasks?

Because if you can't handle the simple stuff, you definitely can't handle the more complicated stuff and I need to make sure you can have those details. That's smart. That's smart. So let's dive into a little bit deeper on this topic of long distance investing. You know, obviously David here wrote a book on it, but I want to know your, like, what were the keys to success with long distance investing, whether it's flipping or whether it was rentals? Like, what were those things that people, if they're listening to the show right now going, I live in New York City or I live in L.A. and I cannot do what I want to do here. What do they do? Give us some like step-by-step instructions.

Communication is going to be the biggest thing. I think any time you try and trick yourself into getting emotional and thinking you have a good deal just because it's out of state. It's very easy to get tricked into that. And so I think having the right area is super important. So doing some diligence on that and getting some, you know, I try and get a lot of feedback. Same thing. I'll send out a wide net. So if I'm going to go into a new area remotely, I'm going to start reaching out to wholesalers. I'm going to start reaching out to brokers. I'm going to start reaching out to realtors. And then I'm going to just test it and see kind of what the market's doing. And again, this is a little bit, a little bit different because of what we're doing now and people

going direct to seller, but I'm just going to say, hey, I'm looking for deals. I'm looking for areas that houses are selling in under 60 days, which used to be a thing. I mean, now everything's moving. But I'll start to get their feedback because they'll open up. And half of them will say right off the bat, like, it's too competitive. You're never going to get a deal. There's nothing out there. Good luck. Did you just take some class? And like, I start to know very quick who I don't want to work with. And I'm just kind of thinning the herd. But I will wind up with like five or ten wholesalers or five or ten brokers or a couple of key people that are doing a lot of deals there. and they'll tell me like, hey, if you're looking for an area that things are selling in under 60 days

that are at like an average price point that you can get a good conventional loan on where things are moving to middle class buyers, you don't want to be on this set of town, you do want to be on this set of town, you don't want to be in this subcode, you want to be in this subcode. So just reaching out to local people and first off figuring out who is going to have the patience to deal with you breaking into a new market because you're going to need a lot of information, but it's all there. But I find most people are lazy or they don't want to put the work in. So when you get a couple of them that you prepare like, hey, it's going to take a little bit of time, but I'm here to stay.

We're going to close some deals. I'm going to do my part. They'll start to guide you to where you want to go. And then the data will tell you if they're right. So I try and like, hey, you're the best. You guys know what you're doing. You tell me where the best place to go is. And then when they start to send me a deal, I'll say, hey, send me the comparables.

And when I look at those comps, if I'm seeing that there's nothing really selling in fixed up condition in the last 30, 60, 90 days, or that the prices like price drop, price drop, price drop, price drop, and then I look at what the conditions are, and it's mostly rentals and nothing really like. I'm going to be able to tell that nobody's really buying there. Things aren't really selling out or above asking price in the last 30, 60, 90 days, which could make me think either it's a place to rent, not to flip,

which maybe that's what I'm looking for as a rental, or that it's maybe a place that there's high crime or an area I really don't want to be in. So I'll adjust it based on that and say, hey, you know what, the spread could potentially be here, but based on the data you gave me, things really aren't moving here. Nothing's really sold.

That's like a three-bed, two-bath, 2,000 square foot home in like the last nine months. So let's find a similar deal because these numbers would look good, but let's find it in an area where I can have something that I can show. And generally, off of that, I'll pull a comp and say, hey, look at this house. This house is, you know, and the two zip codes over, but it's perfect. It's totally fixed up. It has all the things that it's going to look exactly like my house when it's done. You know, rents for the amount. It's got the sale price at the amount.

It's sold in 30 days. Let's look up for some destruction. property within like a mile of this house and I'll kind of guide them to where that new area is. So it just really becomes setting up communication and the biggest thing, which I've heard you guys say a lot on the show, but giving feedback on why something works or something doesn't work and getting the same from them, you will find a handful of people that will be down for that ride with you. And when you guys find it, it'll click at some point.

That's kind of what it is. It's a lot of just making those calls and those connections until you guys really know how to communicate and say the same thing. And at some point when you go, yes, this house, one, two, three, house street, this side of town, this condition, this area, this is what I want. They're going to go, oh, Brian, why didn't you say so from the beginning? And it's what's what I was trying to get to. But now we're on the same page.

And now you've trained them to just go out and do that. And that's kind of what I do is I go out and I try and just find a handful of people who can go out. I can get on the same page with, train them exactly for what I'm looking for. And then I can sit back and they'll just feed me the deals. And I just need to verify stuff and put out offers. Yeah, that's awesome. So having the right team, having that communication, the open communication is so important. A lot of people sometimes people I think just rely on like, oh, they're a real estate agent or they're a wholesaler or they're whatever.

They'll be fine. They're professionals. But I know like David, I mean, I'd love to have you kind of speak to this as well. You're an agent. Somebody contacts you, let's say, from out of state. And they're like, hey, David, go find me a deal. And then you don't hear from them anymore. It's just kind of a mess.

But if they can give you, I'm assuming a little bit more like clear criteria. So what do you want, David, from an agent's perspective, if somebody contacts you. What kind of ideal buyer and out-of-area buyer are you looking for that you'd be excited to put with your team and to work with and to help them find something? You want somebody who already knows what they want or is willing to work with you to figure it out. I think what a lot of people do when they reach out to an agent is they're like, I heard that this is a good area to invest in. I'm interested in it. What that really means is tell me everything you know about the area. Make me feel like I should go forward with this and then send me a bunch of information, give me a free education.

That's the wrong method to take. Another thing would be someone who has a pain point. That's really what motivates people to do anything. Nick talked a little bit about when he hurt his hand. It changed his life. It stopped him from taking the path he wanted to go into. There was some pain associated with I want to take a career in this direction and I can't. So I'm going to make another path for myself, which is what led to this podcast.

If somebody wants to buy rental property but they don't have a pain point, they're very comfortable where they are, they're not going to do it. That hurdle is just going to feel like too much to get over unless there's a, I got to get out of my job. I got to make something happen. I got to get some momentum going. I have to do something. Otherwise, I'm in pain. So when I'm talking to somebody who comes from out of state, if they're like, yeah, tell me about the market. And the minute they hear that houses get multiple offers, they're like, I don't want to deal with that.

Well, then you're just not in enough pain. Okay. But I know a lot of people said that in 2020. And legit where I live, houses have gone up $150,000 in a lot of areas, right? They're in pain now. So I would say that's a big thing. And it goes both ways. When you're talking to an agent, if that agent doesn't have any kind of pain, they don't

really need your business. They're not that. They wanted a business card and a fancy picture to put on there. They want to feel like they have a career, but they're really not motivated to make it happen. That's the wrong agent to work with. You want an agent that's like, no, I want to be the best. I want to be the top.

I want to help more people. I want to get a better deal. I want to go find you the best deal that I can because if I don't, you don't think that I'm good and that would put me in pain. So just in general, I think there's some wisdom in when you're developing a relationship with somebody else. If there isn't already some pain in the situation they're at currently, they're usually not going to take the steps that they need to get over that.

All right. Well, Nick, back to you again. So you did all the flipping, did some wholesaling, did all that stuff on the smaller deals. Why did you make the transition into the larger properties? You know, I think like anybody else, you get into it and then you start to realize that you always think the next thing you're getting into is the thing that's going to get you more money with less time. And then you realize that it's a bigger deal now. So now I'm looking for more. But I remember thinking, like, hey, why would I go get 30 houses when I can get one building with 30 people in it? And now I can hire one babysitter.

All my kids live under one roof. And it's just, you know, I can heavy focus on that because I think a big, a big problem that I've had and had is trying to do too many things at once. And then I wind up dropping the ball a little bit on everything. And that starts to cost money. And when we first started looking into multifamily, we were like, you know what? Like, this is something that I don't need to be spread across all these different things because there's enough money coming in as the cash flow or the refinance or the sale on these that I can put kind of all my eggs into one or two of these. And that's all I can focus on for the year. And that was really exciting to me to say, like, I don't have to be looking for different

deals in different markets and talking all these different teams and all these different realtors. So that was the first thing was just the quality of life for being able to kind of just focus on one or two things and really be kind of dialed in on that was a nice change of pace. And then the numbers on it were just exciting to me. So that was the thing of like, hey, man, like you can you can stabilize a multifamily asset and sell it or refinance it in a year and make just as much as you would maybe flipping, you know, five or six or seven properties. And you do have the option to potentially take that cash out, still hold the asset and

still have the money to go play with and buy another one. And that I liked. And I like when things get creative there. And the other thing that I thought was interesting was the value on. it became a lot more straightforward because it's less subjective I found than single family where you hear a lot of like, well, you know, a single family value, it's more of an art than a science. I found that valuing multifamily, especially for people that were like going to lend or that were going to buy her from you, it was really all about math. And I was like, well, this is

something I can do on a calculator. And there's not all this interpretation. Like it is what it is. So it doesn't matter what I think and feel about it. It's a dealer. It's not a deal based on if the calculator goes green or red. So that definitely excited me about it initially that got me involved. Yeah, that's a really good point. I don't think I've ever heard anybody say it quite that way, and I really like that. Commercial real estate is much more, when I say commercial, for those who don't know, I'm just talking about anything like larger than five units could be a warehouse, could be a retail center, could be a apartment complex. But it is value, like, it is much more objective with the math. It's like this is what the math says is going to be. Now, this is what the rent and

this type of property rents for because, hey, this is what the 80 other two-bedroom one bathroom apartments in this area rent for. So you can get, I feel like you can get a little bit better. idea of you know of what a property is worth and what it could be worth and what you can do with it which is why like I hired you know a few like super brainiac you know underwriters you know one of them Walker who runs my whole company now like he's just a whiz when it comes to math it's because like it's a math game that we're playing so that's cool so what was your first multifamily like what was your first venture into that so we bought a 66 unit and it was both of the deals that we initially bought were seller financing 90

We had to put 10% down, and then they needed some heavy stabilization. So I borrowed some private funding for it, jumped into those deals and had a mentor on those deals that was going to help me talk to, talk me through the whole thing, walk me through everything. So I was going to, I was going to kind of learn on the job, and then we were going to split some profits up. And it turned out that the guy really did not know what he was doing. So I had borrowed money very confidently from people thinking that these things were a slam dunk based on what I had been told.

And then, you know, the phone rings one day, and the guys like, hey, I know these were supposed to be getting stabilized, but I haven't been doing anything. And now, like, the sewer line's about to collapse and the water's about to get shut off. And I don't have any money. So, you know, good luck. So that was awesome. And, you know, because of that, it really, it caused me to focus on. And, you know, like anything else, you know, we talked about jihitsu, but you get put in a tough spot and you go, hey, you know, what do I do? Do I roll over or do I find a way to, you know, get out of this and get back on top?

So, you know, I've always pride of myself on like, I don't care if, like, what happened. It was my responsibility. People, they don't really know anything about the property. They invested in me because they trusted me. So I have to find a way to get out of this and turn this around. So, I mean, I really, again, just with my backup against the wall, dug in and figured out how to start to get those numbers set, find out what the real things were, get things back on track, figure out where we went wrong. And the process of learning from that was, was like priceless. You know, the things I picked up, the contacts I made, the way I learned to really look at the

ins and outs of what could go wrong in multifamily was a huge eye-opener. And that's why, you know, there was weeks that you have to cut a $30,000, $40,000 check to catch up on whatever went, when crazy or the sewer line popped. So it was very stressful, but it was, you know, lessons and things that I've learned from them that were, I've taken it to deal after deal after deal after that. And that's part of what, you know, I wind up selling them off, getting them, some somewhat stabilized and passing them off to another investor, but making enough that I can pay back the loans on them, get the experience, and kind of be in the clear and make everybody square.

So I didn't turn a ton of profit on them, but again, the experience I got on it and the relationships I made now led me into other properties. And people, you know, they only hear the good stuff, but when people start to hear, you know what, hey, these deals went bad. What happened when they went bad? What did you do? What happened to the lender? It's like, then I got in there.

I busted my butt and I found a way to get them paid back. And that's when they come back and now they want to reinvest. So because of the problems that I had going through that and getting left, because there's been tons of times over my life that I paid for mentors, and the mentors just didn't really pan out and they didn't do what they say they were going to do, but it hadn't been that catastrophic on a multi-level where it's like hundreds of thousands of dollars that are coming in and going out. So that really made me feel responsible when I was selling properties to other people

of like, hey, I know you might not know, but here's the things you should look out for. Here's the things that nobody helped me with. And that's kind of how it started separating myself from other people that were selling things was all the things that I never got from people that were supposed to be helping talk me through that process and give me the realistic things that could go wrong or right. I started doing for other people and saying, hey, I'll help you screen these teams. I'll help you with some due diligence. I'll help you with some area information. I'll line up some contractors. I'll interview them and then I'll pass them off to you to make the difference.

So again, you know, pros and cons and life lessons from everything. But they've all gone great since those two. But those were very stressful times, but very meaningful in my path in general. From the deals that went wrong, from anything that you've done that's ever gone wrong, especially with multifamily or where it didn't, you didn't make the profit that you thought you were going to. What were the mistakes or what were the lessons that you learned that could help people listen to the show right now going, oh, I'm not going to make that same mistake. Definitely.

Well, one of them is just don't trust anybody. Trust, but verify everything that you get because, you know, I definitely would have done more homework. But I've always been a little bit naive on that level, I think, of just. trusting people and thinking that they're going to be honest and they're telling me the best of what they did. But I would definitely look into whoever you're going to get partnered with, making sure that you have a good track record of what they have actually done and how they've handled things when they went wrong as well as right. Because if they're going to tell you things, that's maybe not somebody that I really want to do things with. But overcommunication is another thing. So I have something called the rule of 72 hours that I use that no matter which team member it is, I never want to go more than 72 hours without communicating with that person.

And I think that that was a big thing that I was getting told when those buildings were getting fixed. Oh, man, we're in there this week. We're getting this done. We're getting that done. We're renting out this place. You know, we're fixing this unit up. And not really getting solid pictures and videos and communication every few days to make sure that those things are really happening. And if you do those things, and again, I think part of it for me was just lack of emotional maturity at the time that I was having a hard time with it anyway.

and I just didn't want more bad news. So you tend to kind of blind that out and go, you know, I don't really want to ask what's going on because maybe I don't really want to know. And I think getting past that and understanding that like you do want to know, you do want those problems because that's what real estate is. And when you learn to just take them head on and address them and fix them, that's where there's a lot of money to be made. And they're going to pop up. It's just a matter of how are you going to handle that? So I would say teach anybody listening to get a solid lot of communication and make it how you like to communicate. So if you're a phone call person, make sure you're working with people that are okay getting on the phone.

If you don't like to get on the phone, you only like the text message, make sure you're getting teams in place to help you because like there's that other thing too, that somebody there might be trying to do a good job on the house, but they're not relaying what's going on or the things that they need for me because we're not communicating under the same mediums that they want. So constant communication with proof, not just telling me things are done. But if you did those three units, again, every day I want pictures, I want videos. I want data showing at the end of the week which units got rented, which didn't. Why didn't they get rented? Why didn't they get fixed up? And having conversations to figure out, is it something I'm doing wrong? Is it something they're doing wrong?

Or is it something with the property we're doing wrong? And really just having solid open communication on how to solve those problems. And I would say definitely another thing is the biggest lessons I got from all of this is, and I think I've heard you guys say this a bunch of times, but be slow to hire and be quick to fire. Not firing people quick enough, not getting problem tenants out of their quick. enough, not getting bad crooked property managers out of there quick enough, leaving maintenance guys on who are not getting the job down and you find out they're like doing drugs or sleeping in the units and just, hey, you know what? I'm afraid if I fire them, things might get worse or what if I get

and like that has to just go. And I think learning to identify these key things right off the bat of, you know, it's been two weeks now. This person's not working out. I'm not going to wait until this becomes something like detrimental and terrible. And this person like has now given my phone number out to all the crazy tenants in the building, which happened, I'm going to fire them and move on and get somebody in there. Anytime I've done that and I've gotten the toxicity or the poison or the problems out fast, it has drastically changed the way I handled the deal from there on out and it's turned into a positive experience. This is so convicting to me because I bought this property a few years ago in Cincinnati. And the deal was still, it was a good deal. I still think it was a good deal.

But I hired a couple property, like one property manager, then another one. And I did exactly what you said, I didn't, I didn't want to talk to them. I talked to them like once a month. Like, and I didn't want to deal with it. I had a lot of stuff going on out here in Hawaii. I was moving to Hawaii and all that stuff. And so I just kind of let it go. I just hoped that it was going well. And that never is a good strategy, right? Like, I, today I say oftentimes, like, we will move at the speed at which we meet. Like, open door capital, I say that a lot. Like, we'll meet, speed we meet. I don't like meetings. But the more we meet and, like, have a good meeting, the more we move forward, the more we do things. And so then I just never met with the

people. So a month would go by. Finally, I would talk to him and I didn't want to talk to him, but I finally get on the phone with the property manager and, like, they hadn't done anything in a month. I mean, nothing changed. They said they were going to get a unit turned over. They didn't. But if we were talking every 72 hours or even like every day, like you were saying, like, you know, call my 9 a.m. What are you going to do to, what are you going to get done today? I think I would have gotten a lot more done then. So it just, I kind of buried my head in the sand at that point. And I ended up selling that property to another bigger pockets member, actually the agent who brought the deal to me, he's like doubled the value of that property

past like two years. Like, like hundreds of thousands of dollars in equity. Like he'll become a millionaire off that one deal. And I'm like, good for him because he could handle it. But when I was trying to do a long, especially long distance, it just, it didn't work because I wasn't there. And I didn't have the skill set at the time to be able to take down a long distance. I didn't want to do it.

So yeah. Yeah. All that stuff, super, super important stuff. Because I think we can learn almost more from the deals that go wrong than the deals that do right. Right? So hearing from other people's mistakes, like, yeah, solid, solid stuff. So all right, I want to move toward, you mentioned wholesaling the bigger deals, the larger, like, larger, like, what is that? First of all, can you explain, for those who have never heard that even the term wholesaling, what is that?

And then how does that apply to these larger deals? What kind of profits are possible? How do you make that happen? Sure. So the wholesaling in general is you're getting a deal, a good deal under contract, and instead of you actually closing on it, you'll, leaving some meat on the bone, whether it's equity or cash flow or upside value potential, and you're selling it off to another investor who basically wants to put the time and the work in, like you were saying to that other guy that, you picked it up, you sold it to them. You made a little bit. They made a lot. So that's the premise of wholesale is kind of buy low, sell low and leave it for somebody else

that can make the bulk of the profit on at the end. What I'm doing in multifamily and mobile home parks is the same principle. It's just that the numbers are so much bigger because the end user has, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars in profit versus like an on a flip maybe it's 30 40,000. The difference there were just so much, so much bigger and beefier. And again, it happened by accident. I put a couple of these properties up for sale. And then I started just paying for some extra advertising, boosting posts, putting stuff on loop net.

And then you start to get these prospect lists of hundreds and hundreds of people who call you that are interested in them. And again, a lot of them are not serious or they're jokers or it's never going to be the right deal. They want unrealistic returns. But you do wind up with five or ten of them. And I remember that just being like, man, like five or ten people that want exactly this type of deal or have now told me the type of deal that they want. And I know that they're serious just based on the way the offer was structured or how they communicate with me. Like you said, rock stars, no rock stars. You start to be able to tell quick like this person knows what they're doing.

This person's serious. If I can get them what they're looking for, they're going to perform. They're going to close on it. So, you know, for instance, the Arkansas deal we're doing now. I think we have it. It's a smaller one because, you know, there's people that are like, hey, I want to get a. to multifamily, but I only have single family money. So we have it under contract for 250 from the seller, and I have it to close actually this Friday to another buyer for 325. I'm sorry,

275 and 325. So there's a $50,000 net on there. And, you know, it's the same type of thing where people go, well, I'm scared. Like, but, you know, why would you buy the single family home and look what you can do on the multifamily? And here's the things I can do for you. So it's like, I can help line up the title company. I can help you, you know, I'll get you three contractors, three maintenance guys, three property managers, I'll give you my opinion of them, and then you can pick the one you want. So just making that a little bit less scary has made people want to gravitate towards coming to me and saying like, hey, can you find me a deal? So on the wholesale side, I just find out what do they want? Like, what's a realistic cap rate that

they want? What's a realistic average per door that they want in the cash flow? Or like, what are they looking to refinance out? Or what do they want to make when they sell it? And then I just look at it and say, is this something I can actually get them? Because, you know, if somebody's like, man, I want something in an A class area, I want a 15 cap when I buy. I. and I want an ups like it's never going to happen. But when you get somebody that's going, hey, you know what? Like that deal that you had, if I can get something that looks just like that, I'm good. And then you can go out and you can negotiate that.

So, you know, that last one that we're just closing on Friday was like a $50,000 net. And then there's another one closing in a week or two. It's a mobile home park in Florida. It's about 18 units. And, you know, I knew that the guy was basically looking for something that was going to stabilize around the nine cap. I knew he had a few hundred grand to put into it. And I know he wanted something that had a little bit of value potential. and it had some cash in place.

So he wasn't doing like a heavy value ad that when he bought it, he was going to be negative for four or five or six months. So this one kind of hit all those marks. And based on that, you know, I set them up and I asked them very upfront. Like, hey, well, if you don't have, like, how much cash do you have? Because you might be looking at a mobile home park or a multifamily that's two or 300 grand. You don't realize that we can set you up with a lender with your situation.

You can put 25% down. And now we can get you into a million dollar building that's going to make you a lot more money. And that's kind of what we did is we just reverse engineered it for a, okay I know what I can get you approved for let me go out and find that and at 800,000 this deal made sense for that for what I had it for and I could market to him and literally just run all the finances and say hey at 900,000 this deal gives you everything you want so you know I had under contract with the the seller for 800 I

selling it to him for 900 I'll make a hundred thousand dollar fee on that and he's getting a great deal on all the numbers that he wanted to checking out so it works for everybody that I made some money he's gonna make more money and the seller who sold it to me I don't know what they're making but it doesn't matter to me, everybody's happy in the deal. This is, so a couple things I want to point out here. First of all, when we think wholesaler, David, like, when you think of, like, a, a reputation of most wholesalers, it's not great, right?

Like, what comes to mind when we think, like, most wholesalers that are out there, right? They just want the, they just want the sale. They want to make some money. They want to get on with it, right? I think the same thing. And most of them, they don't know what they're doing. They offer you no help. Their numbers are all over the place.

They're irresponsible. Like, that's like the reputation that a lot of wholesalers have. So the opposite, like, Nick, what you're doing is you're like, you're saying, like, Like, let me walk you through this. Let me find out your real pain point. Let me find out your real problem. Let's explore different possibilities. Let me get you set up with some property managers.

Let me get you set up with some contractor interviews. Let me hold your hand and help you through the entire process. I just want people to take note of that, the different approaches. I don't think anybody's going to look at Nick and say, oh, yeah, that guy just wanted to make a quick buck and he was out of here. Like, you made a reputation for yourself as somebody who's going to walk. Maybe on a $10,000 house in Detroit, maybe you can get by with just being a jerk wholesaler and just like, throwing, you know, just trying to take some money. But if you want to make a lasting career or good money or get into the larger wholesale fees

and larger wholesale deals, like I think that copying Nick's model is a really smart move. So Nick, what do you say, though, to when you're wholesaling larger deals, what do you, first of all, I want to know what you're saying. Actually, let's start with this one. How are you finding them? And I want to go into how you're talking with the seller. Do they know your wholesaling? Like what is that?

But first, let's go, how are you finding these commercial properties to wholesale? It's been really interesting because on the residential side, I've gone deep into, you know, SMS and text and cold calls and RVMs and like hitting the list and all that stuff. But on the commercial side, it's been strictly relationship based. So I'm in different masterminds with people. And, you know, again, just from years of traveling and just telling people, hey, send me whatever you got. And then social media, same thing. The deals have just kind of come to me. So, you know, you sell a deal for somebody and I'll post that.

Like so like this new mobile home park they came through. when I sold another mobile home park in South Carolina, I forget what we made on that one. I think it was like maybe another 50,000, something like that. But we sold it, and I made a couple of posts in some groups like, hey, guys, here's a deal we just did. Here's the money we made on it, you know, X, Y, and Z. And then there's always people that either say, hey, I'm looking for deals like that, too.

Can you find them? But then there's also a bunch of people that go, hey, I have deals like that too. Can you help me find a buyer for it like you did for yours? And then we'll JV on it. And that's really what started happening is people went, oh you wholesale some multifamily do you think you can wholesale mine i'll go yeah you know send it to me if it hits whatever from my buyer's criteria i'm happy to give you whatever you want for it or we'll split the fee on whatever i make for it and it's really happened organically like that the people that

see that you performed will then give you a shot to perform with their deals and that that's really what's happened then it's just a matter of you know scrubbing through because like you said there's a lot of wholesalers out there that i'll have conversations and i'm going hey i need to make like you're going to talk to me because i need to make sure that this is a deal that i would do before I go give it to somebody else and people, oh, no, no, no, trust me, this is the deal. And I go, well, like, but where's the information? Like, where is the comms?

Where's the reports? You know, this is just what I do. You're just gonna, and like they start the strong on you and those deals never check out. So like you said, there's a lot of them that we did have to back out of because I have to go through a lot of them because people are just not honest with the numbers.

They don't really know how to run the numbers. They're saying it's a certain return and it's not. But then when you scrub through and you get something that's close, I usually just go back and have a real conversation of, hey man, what am I missing here? Like I know you sent me this deal for my guy to want it or for it to make sense for me. I would need it at this price unless you can give me some reason of something I missed.

And again, it just goes back to the communication. You know, maybe it is something I missed and it's a better deal than I thought it was. Or maybe they'll now take into consideration what I said. And we can figure it out. And then it'll just be situational for is this one still worth doing or do we want to find something else? And generally, the people that I'm getting these deals from have other deals. So like my buddy that I got one of the mobile home parks from, he owns like six or seven or eight of them in the same area. And this is really all he does is gets really, really good deals on him,

however he gets them. And then he stabilizes them. And I have a bunch of people that are looking for ones that are kind of like half rehab to rehabbed. And so he's like, hey, man, you move two of them for me in the last month. Here's the other ones that are coming up. See if you can get them going before they're done. And so he kind of gives me first shot at it. And you know, you don't need a lot of those when you're making six figure figure paydays on them. Yeah, that's awesome, man. So let's like a typical wholesale deal. I got a commercial private. Like the one you said you made it you made a hundred thousand dollars on right or you're you're you're i don't know if you you did or you're expected to but what does that typically take in terms of time like how many how many

weeks how many months how many days how many is it years that goes into this a single deal like what's the time frame look like to make that i'll say years is is probably accurate in the fact that the things that i've been able to do now quicker have taken me years to learn the things that are important that the things that are not but you know initially it's going to take probably a day or to for me to get all the information, run all the information through my calculators, figure out if it's a deal that makes sense, you know, do some area research, run some different scenarios. And then what I'll do is I'll actually put like a whole investor packet together. And then I'll make a video and a Dropbox file with like all the financials that I had and I'll

talk them through. Like, here's the deal. Here's why I think it's a deal. Here's what all these numbers mean. Here's the things that I think are a risk to you. Here's the things I think are a benefit to you. Here's what I would do. And here's what I would need from you if you want to move forward with this.

And then I basically set all that up and then I start to send it out to those people. And I have usually one or two people in mind that that deals four, but I'm still going to go and kick it out to everybody to keep again growing that list and seeing who's going to come in with things. So that part I would say usually like a day or two is really all it takes to get that done. And then it's just a matter of like really fielding questions. So I have a great assistant. And what she'll do is she'll start to field all the calls that come in because there's going to be people that just aren't serious, want ridiculous things. they want to daisy chain it and she'll start to throw me the questions that come back and based on those questions i'll start going back to the seller so it's you know an hour here an hour there

but it becomes something you just do throughout your day that she'll call me up and she'll say hey you know this person's worried is this in a floodplain or this person wants to see like a t24 or whatever and then you have a little bit of back and forth you call the seller hey i have somebody interested i think i miss this when you sent it over where this looks like it's a question that came up i didn't know the answer to and then what I start to do is I keep a word doc in that Dropbox file or frequently ask questions and anytime something comes up from investors that they want to know that I don't have the answers to I populate that list so if it's somebody that like hits me up today and they go hey I'm interested they have all the things everybody else have but they also have a whole flyer there

with like 20 30 really good questions that I didn't think to ask that will now go into every other deal after that of like here's things you might be thinking about or wondering about So I try and give as much up front. So the people that are serious can say, I am serious if this checks out. Let's lock in an LOI and do some due diligence. And then you can help me from there. And then again, it just becomes, you know, once they say yes, it'll probably take me another day or two to start to figure out, okay, what are we going to do here? What do you need?

Are you going to require a walkthrough? Are you going to go down yourself? Because now I have to find how to work with the seller and explain the situation. Like, who am I? What's my role? How are we going to access this property? does the seller that you're getting it from not want the people to know you know what i mean so it's it's a lot of just communicating and figuring out ways to get through the hoops but i will say

there's always weird stuff on commercial that like somebody else you find out is involved that's actually the owner or actually has it under contract or you know the units really aren't rented so working through those problems and figuring out how to just get those answers for the person that's buying him but not involve them and all the back and forth that i'm doing to get them is really the key. So it might take me two days to find three good property managers or find a way that we can get creative and get access or put the loans together or whatever it is, but they're only going to get, hey, this is done. You know, Monday, 2 o'clock, your guy can be there. Let me know if you need me to zoom and record it back. So it's hard to gauge. The process overall will be like 60 to 90 days,

but it's usually like a few days heavy up front lifting and then just, you know, an hour a day kind of throughout the process for the rest of the time. Then there's days that there's nothing. You know, as the deal comes along and it gets closer to the finish line, it's little things that the lender might need, little things that the buyer might need, little things that the title company might need. But it doesn't become too time-consuming at that point. Well, what I want to make this point here, and I hope people are picking this up what you're dropping here, is it's not, like, wholesaleing is not a passive activity.

Like, it's not like, oh, yeah, I just found a buyer, found a seller, bada-bang, bama, boom, I'm done, right? Like, like, especially the larger deals. Like, we found that in getting into mobile home parks and self-stores that we're getting into and apartments that we're doing. Like, there's so much more with due diligence than there ever was with, you know, the single family. I mean, we did, so we did a wholesale deal. I think we made 150,000, maybe 100,000, something like that on a wholesale deal last year.

It was a mobile home park that was, we put under contract with the intention to buy it, found that some things that we didn't fit our model perfectly. And so we're like, well, we could let them go and just back out. But we're like, what if we tried to wholesale it? So we did. We found another buyer. We talked to a bunch of people. We ended up helping them do the whole due diligence process.

At the end of the day, I think what we calculated is we made about $9 an hour. Like the amount of work that we put into this deal, making $100,000. Like it was like, it was like terrible. Like we made like, because I mean, just hundreds of hours went into all these little things over the course of about three months. And so I don't want to say that to scare anybody, but I want people to have a realistic expectation. If you want to do this, you're getting paid because of the value that you bring. I mean, that's just how economies work, right? So you're getting paid because you're dealing with all of that crap.

Now, the seller's going to deal with their crap, the buyer's going to deal with yours, but you get to be the therapist in the middle sometimes, and that's a lot of fun, too. So I think that's just a good reminder, just that it is not overnight success. It's not you're just going to start making six-figure profits in 90 days starting tomorrow. But the light of the end of the tunnel is that it does work. Like, you can find good deals. Now, how do you talk with sellers? I mean, do they know that you're a wholesaler, that you're going to help bring them a buyer?

Why are they just not listing it with a commercial broker? Why would they talk to you? And then what's that process look like? Yeah, you know, most of the ones that we've been doing have been coming from other guys that are either picking them up in mid-rehabing them or they're under contract with them. So they're dealing directly with the seller. And I'm usually dealing with my point of contact that bought me the deal. So I don't have to deal with them directly a lot of the times, which is nice. They're kind of handling a lot of that.

So, you know, but one thing I actually thought was amazing from you guys last week is it. clicked is like I don't work for any of them I work for the deal you know I thought that was like such a genius thing that you guys drop in that and that's really the kind of way I look at it is you know it's if I'm dealing with somebody that's come through one of my masterminds or a business guy like my friend who's doing the mobile home park the guy understands real estate he knows he understands people he's been in the business a long time he can handle the seller but if I'm not getting anywhere which happens sometimes that the person who's involved in a deal it they might have just stumbled upon it they had a friend or a family member somebody kind of kicked it

them they don't really know what to do with it. I'll ask them to step aside and then I'll handle it just to keep the communication with less people in between of the game of telephone. But generally, on a lot of the ones I've done recently, I haven't had to talk to the seller or if I do, I just say I'm a partner on the deal, which is true. You know, like there was an older couple that we just dealt with the mobile home park we sold in South Carolina. And they were just old school. You know, like everything, we have to drive there. We don't do anything virtually. We want to show this stuff. We've been managing the park forever. They didn't do really well with email. So it was just kind of of keeping them in the loop and letting them know, you know, they're afraid you're, you're,

calling them out of nowhere. They don't even know where you got the number, but just being patient with them and letting them know, hey, you know, I got a partner who's going to take this down. The loan's going to be in his name. He's going to be the person you're dealing with after this is all done. My role here is just getting this going and getting into closing, and then that's going to be the person that's really taking it over. And they don't really ask too many questions at that point.

You know, they're usually good with it as long as you're moving forward, you're making things happen. I have found that they, they care less about what your role is and they care more about the fact that things look like they're moving and they're going to get paid soon. Well, it's been fascinating. It's really good. We're not done quite yet, but I just want to say, like, yeah, the whole idea of how you've transitioned, like, as the markets changed, as strategies changed, you just keep, like, navigating this crazy real estate world going from, yeah, like everything from the flipping, the wholesaling, the rentals, the long distance stuff. Now,

the commercial stuff, buying your own apartments, wholesaling them. Yeah, it's just, it's a cool, It's cool to see like the whole picture of a real estate investor's career. It's not just a deal by deal thing. It's like you are a real estate investor in a big sense. So very cool, man. Did you know your house gets bored when you leave? I can't actually prove that, but it probably misses out on the action. The footsteps, the late night fridge raids.

Yeah, when you're gone, your place is basically on unpaid leave. It's sitting there in the dark thinking I could be contributing right now. Your side room wants a side house. hustle. Even your Wi-Fi is like, we could be networking. You're on vacation, spending money like it's a sport while your staircase at home is fully capable of sending your income upwards. Here's the twist. You can go on a trip and actually earn money. Airbnb makes that possible with the co-host network. If you're away for a while or have a secondary property, you can hire a vetted local co-host with real hosting experience to handle it all. A co-host can handle guest communications.

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A co-host can handle all the details like messaging guests, creating your host space, and managing reservations. So everything runs smoothly. It's a practical way to earn a little extra money, maybe even some cash toward your next trip. Plus, you get to share your place with someone traveling to your area while you're off making memory somewhere else. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. If you think property management is expensive, try mismanaging a vacancy, or an eviction, or a maintenance issue that turns into a five-figure problem because no one caught it early. That's expensive. A good property manager isn't overhead. Their protection

against small mistakes turning into big losses. And that matters more than ever in this economy. That's why I like Mind. Unlike other property managers, Mind manages your property like an investment. They obsessively measure the things that matter for your bottom line. Things like occupancy, delinquency, and net promoter score, and they have the results to prove it. Go to mine.co slash show me to see how mine performs and get your first month free, which is much cheaper than learning the hard way. Before I get to the deal deep dive, you have one question for you. As a black belt jujitsu person, How has that impacted? I mean you mentioned that in a kind of a connection earlier,

but maybe there's no more than that, but is there any other ways that you can say that Jiu Jitsu has impacted your real estate? Oh, yeah. I think it's definitely countless ways. You know, I think Jiu Jitsu is probably, aside from my accident, been the most defining thing in my life

from the people I've met to the values that's taught just about hard work and dedication. But I think the principle that you get where I got from Jiu-Jitsu in real estate is when things are tough, finding a way to stay calm, analyze the situation, and figure a way out or exhaust all options until there literally is no way like if I'm going to tap out, it's going to be right before I'm about to go unconscious. I think that mentality and tenacity has helped me huge in business

because again, every single day, at some point in the day, I am being put in bad positions in business. You know, this one wants to back out of the deal. This one doesn't want to do the loan anymore. This one's mad at this one. And it's a matter of like, okay, my initial reaction is like, okay, I'm mad this person. I just spent 30, 60 days in this deal. I want to fire off. And it's like, no, no, no. You're going to waste your energy. Stay calm. See what they're going to do. You work around that. You wait for them to give you openings. And you're going to find that little in and you're going to get in and you're going to get back on top and you're going to win. Like, it's how bad do you want? And I think that has just taught me countless, countless lessons in

business for emotional maturity and just finding a way out and looking for solutions instead of just taking the easy way out. And on top of that, I think just being around so many professionals like, you know, we mentioned Chris Wyman and seeing guys that are just champions that you train next to every day and seeing that there's really no substitution for just time and hard work. And if you put it in, you'll get results. And I think that that has taught me a lot from the people around me that have encouraged me to keep going and you see other people's successes. And you see people that are getting their black belts and they're winning fights and they're winning championships, not because they were born like a, you know,

rich or had some crazy circumstance. They got there by just not listening to people that said they can't do it or it was too harder. It wasn't for them. Going after it, working hard for it every single day, showing up, putting the time in, and then just winning those small battles every day, got you to win those big ones. And I think that's really what it's taught me is like all these things I get to talk about, like this land development deal and all those things.

That didn't happen by one big decision. That happened by multiple decisions every single day, every single hour for years and years and years and years and years. and that's what gets you on top. And I think that that's a huge lesson that I've been taught through Jiu-Jitsu. Brandon, let me ask you, has your perspective on business change

since you started training? I don't know if I'd say perspective changed, but there's similar to what Nick said, there's these little lessons that I'm like, oh, I totally say how this applies to real estate. I don't give you one example. One thing Jerry says, Jerry's our kind of Jiu-Jitsu instructor,

he always says, get comfortable with being uncomfortable or get uncomfortable being in really like, you know, awkward, terrible kind of pain-filled positions. Because if you start to panic, that's when you start to breathe heavier and everything. So it's like he always says he starts by putting himself. Like whenever he does like a role, he'll start in the worst position possible. Like, where do he really not like to be? He doesn't like to be on his back and, you know, okay, that's where he's going to start.

Because he wants to be comfortable, low pulse, breathing normal in that horrible position because that's when your brain can actually come up with good decisions. And so I kind of apply that to like my real estate in terms of like things do go bad sometimes. There are deals that fall apart or whatever. So it's just a reminder like don't freak out. Get comfortable in these situations because this is where like the money is made. Just like in jiu-jitsu. So that's probably the biggest lesson.

What about you, David? I don't think I've done it long enough to be to be frank. That's all right. One thing I'll say that I've learned like I'm getting the point where I know what I don't know, which is good. I'm recognizing if I had any idea what to do here, this would be different. And something that clicked last night was that it's really a bunch of little tiny pieces. And you learn a little piece at a time like puzzle pieces. And at a certain point, I'm sure it's all going to click and you're going to actually have a puzzle.

And business has been like that too, I would say. Real estate investing is very difficult. If you do three out of the five things right, you make zero money. You have to get all five in order to make this work. And so when you're training in something new like Jiu-Jitsu, you might do three. everything's right. And then the fourth thing you don't, and that's all it took. And now someone takes your back and your result is you got choked out. And so you don't feel the progress happening. But it is happening if you're learning these things. And then when it does click,

all of a sudden, boom, you're making $100 grand on a wholesale deal and you're this overnight success. So that's something that I've, it's sort of strengthened my understanding of that is it's okay to just drill and drill and drill and drill and have faith that this is going to make you better. And then when it all clicks, it'll be fun. It's not like it's going to be this linear path where, oh, I did this and now I'm going to have fun tomorrow. No, you're still going to get strangled. It's going to be horrible. And real estate feels like that all the time too. But that's why you got to keep going. Yeah. And like you said there, David, like you don't necessarily always feel like you're making progress, but you are making progress, just like in real estate.

Just like, but it doesn't work. Like you can't just show up and, and do it, you know, do a martial art to do anything, right, for a day and then not show up again for a month and then try to do it again. And then a month later you come back. And that's what so much people when they're getting into business or real estate investing they do is they get excited they go and analyze a couple of deals and then they're done and then they come back a couple weeks later because inspiration strikes again and they do it again and then they wait for inspiration to strike again and it reminds me of what stephen pressfield said uh when we interviewed him is uh he said that quote about you know i only write when inspiration strikes it's a good thing inspiration strikes every morning at nine a m at my desk it's in other

You show up regardless and do the work, do the drills over and over and over and over and over. And in real estate, that might mean you might have to analyze 50, 100, 200 deals before you make your first offer. And that might sound overwhelming, but do a couple every day for a month or two and you're there. And then you may need to go to a lot of open houses. You may need to go check out a lot of properties, talk to 50 agents, talk to 20 property managers. Those are the drills of a real estate investor, like a black belt real estate investor. And the more you drill, the more you practice, the more you try, the more offers you make, the more you're going to learn, the more you get tapped out.

But then eventually you start tapping other people out and you start the wins. So yeah, Jujitsu has a lot of, a lot of connections to the business world. It's cool stuff. All right, guys. Let's shift gears here and head over to the world famous deal deep dive. All right, Nick, we're going to throw the deal deep dive at you. This is a part of the show where we dive. incredibly deep. No, not that deep, into one of your deals. So tell us what thought you were having. No,

we want to dive into the actual specifics, the math behind one of your properties. So is there a deal that we can pick apart here? You got something in mind? Absolutely. There's a deal. We just did, I think you just closed on it last week. All right, perfect. So we're going to ask you like a series of questions, kind of a quick question answer kind of section here. So first one, what type of deal is it and where, like, what kind of property is it and where is it located? Single family home in the Chicago suburbs. How did you find this deal? This was an inbound lead from Facebook marketing. Facebook marketing.

What does that mean? Like Facebook ads you're talking about? Are you doing like other Facebook stuff? Yeah, Facebook ads, Facebook ads. Okay. Very cool. How much was the property? How much you buy it for?

You bought it for 260K. All right? And how did you negotiate that price? So they called us first. It was probably back and forth for a few weeks of him just saying, hey, you know, I owe like over 280 on this. I can't take less than 300. And then us going back and saying like, well, you know, we're sorry.

There's no way we can do that. And then like a month later, they'd call back and say, how about now? And they'd come down a little bit and a little bit. And eventually I was like, hey, man, there's just no way I can do this for less than 255. And that's probably going to be less than that when I actually dig in deeper to this deal. And he said, well, I think we're done talking here. You know, thanks for wasted my time. And he got really mad at him up the phone.

And then call me back, you know, an hour later and was like, 260 and I was like, let's do 260. And if something surfaces, just be prepared that I might have to come down again. And they were like, okay, great. And, you know, so he told me no deal, no way, no how. And then within a few more phone calls, all of a sudden, we were right back to what I wanted anyway. So it was interesting. Hey, why did they sell to you and not to, like, just listed on the MLS in a market like this?

You know, I, I ask myself that all the time. And I think it's so crazy. Like, you can get so in your head about like, why me? why didn't they just do these things? But as they play it back, whatever it was about the Facebook ad, they seemed to gravitate towards me for some reason. And then I think just having the conversations, like when we first started talking,

we were just having a nice conversation. Maybe he appreciated that. And then at the end of the day, their biggest thing was that they had moved. And I think somebody else might have bailed on their deal and kind of left them hanging. And now they were paying double mortgages. And they needed, they had this huge massive house.

after COVID and everything happened. Now, you know, they have to figure out not only how to pay both mortgages, but now how to clean out the house because it was, I don't want to say a hoarder house, but it was pretty close to that. There was just stuff everywhere. And it was like a 3,000 square foot home with a full basement and there was stuff all over this massive property it was on. So I was like, you know what? Like, I'll take it like that and I'll just move all this stuff out that you don't want. I'll get it throwing out. I'll get it cleaned out. And to them, that was the deal clincher for them. She was like, man, you have no idea how much stress that takes off my shoulders, the fact that you're willing to do that.

So they literally went in and they did like a clean scrub of all the family stuff that they wanted to keep. And anything that was left, that was like, just give me the thumbs up when your stuff's out. I'll clean everything else out. You never have to worry about it again. You never have to show up at the house again. I'll take care of everything. And she was like, I owe you one. Thank you.

So that's awesome. That's awesome, man. How did you fund the property? I use private funds. So 100% private funded. Again, you know, you have just people that are constantly saying like, hey, you know, let me know when you have an opportunity. And then when you do and you make the money and you pay them back, there almost is always

somebody else that was watching. And now you have two people that go, hey, I saw you, you pay Brandon back. I was waiting to see if he was going to get screwed over or not. He made money. I'd like to lend them the next one. So, you know, I just reached out to a few people that had, you know, like anything, you can't get discouraged. You had a few people that say they were in and then switch the terms last minute and

then they were out. And then a couple people that said they had the money. And then last minute they were. like I didn't get paid back from the deal I thought I was going to close. And then I got somebody that was like, send me the wiring instructions. So, you know, I added 10 people. I only needed one. So we got that funded with private funds and went pretty well. And they're looking to do more now. All right. So what did you do with this property? So initially, I was like, I'm going to wholesale this to an investor who wants to fix and flip it. And again, it's just so funny the way

you look at the market and just try and find what's happening because right now there's just no inventory. So I was like, all right, well, investors were telling me when I was flowing out the numbers during the negotiation. There's not enough spread. There's not enough spread. You know, I can't buy it. I can't buy it. I'm going, it looks like it's a pretty good deal to me, but you know what? Like, maybe if we just clean it out and throw it on the MLS and see what we can get for it, I'll kind of take whatever. I have it at 260. If I can get 280 for it, I'm happy. I only figured I was going to make like 15, 20 grand on it. And all of a sudden, a comp popped up. And my partner's talking to me, and she's like, I don't understand why you keep saying like this 280 number.

She's like, look at this comp. And they were literally like six houses down, smaller, crappier, worst location, smaller lot, no pool, like 80, 390, something like that. And it just sold. So I was like, huh. And it's not fixed up. So I was like, well, do you think we can get that? So I started calling a bunch of realtors in the area. And I was like, hey, you know, I have this deal.

What would you list it at if we were just going to throw an open house this weekend? All I'm going to do is clean it out. It's not going to be fixed up at all. and they were like, oh, you can easily get like 360, 370, 380. And I was like, throw it on the market for 370. And let's just see, like, I'll be happy if somebody comes in now at 300. And sure enough, by like 9 a.m. Monday, we had an offer at 380. 930.

We had an offer at like 390 with an escalation clause up to 410. And closing in like two and a half weeks. I was like, that worked out really well. So, I mean, I went in. We cleaned it out. We cleaned it up. Probably cost five grand between the dumpsters and the cleanup crew. So we're rolling to it for like 265.

and sold it for $3.90 in like three weeks. I will say, I think in today's market where we are right now in 2021, people should expect to see this a lot more often. I think the amount of stimulus that's been printed and the lack of supply, if you think about the fact houses have not been built for a really long time, that you're going to see really big jumps in comparable sales. Like one sale could happen that could increase the comp of your house by $100,000, relatively easily in today's market.

And so I just want to bring that up that for a long time, home prices were just very scattered steadily. That's how it usually works, right? They just creep, creep, creep, and then they crash. Well, we're seeing geometric progression as far as home prices. So now we know also why the seller was a little irritated. Like, thanks for wasting my time because he's looking at his house like it's worth 360. But this is a great, great thing to highlight for anyone else who's got a deal that they're looking at or they don't want to pay over asking price or they have a chance to land something.

Take that last minute to go look up last comps or talk to a realtor and just say, hey, what are you seeing in them? in the market because I think this is going to happen much more often than it used to. I hope so. So what was the final outcome then? What was the final profit at the end of the day? You know, there's some realtor commissions on there that I think came out to like, I think I paid to get like $8,000 and realtor commissions, about $5,000 to fix it up. I paid the private lenders 1% because it was only for a month.

So it was a gross of 130, but we probably came right around 100. That's awesome. Six figure flip. It's kind of like a whole tail in a way. Exactly. Yeah, it was a whole tail. And it completely restructured my business model because I was like, man, I don't want to have to babysit contractors for 30, 60, 90 days. I have your rehab when I can like literally get it just show ready and sell it to somebody who's just looking for a home.

And they'll make their husband or wife fix it up on the weekends. Okay. So other than I don't have to do the rehab, did you learn any other lessons on the deal? Yeah. You know, it was the first time that I, that was the biggest one to me. It was just kind of, you know, looking through and realizing that there is a whole other buyer's pool. So just because it doesn't work for an investor who might be taking it as a cash flow property or a fix and flip doesn't mean that it's not a deal because you can still get a market ready for like a primary homeowner. So that was a big thing that I look at all my deals now when I'm running the numbers.

They go, okay, does this work as a deal I can wholesale to an investor? Does this look as a deal I can wholesale to a flipper? Or does this look like something I can just clean up and wholesale and throw it on the MLS? And I try and weigh out all those options to see what's going to make me the most amount of money and the least amount of time. But it also taught me that you overthink things. I mean, how many people I call or I have my team call every day that's gotten 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, other calls from people. And your immediate thought is, I'll never get a deal because there's 40, 50 other people

that this person's calling. Same thing happened to this guy. But for whatever reason, it was just my day. And he said yes to me that day. And I think that's kind of what the game is, is, you know, everybody's going to have a lot of knows, but you're going to have those days that for whatever reason, they are going to say yes to you. And it's just a matter of staying persistent and staying in the game.

game until you get that yes and just plowing through the nose makes it worth it well let's move on toward the end of the show before we get to the famous four though i'm wondering what's next for you where do you see your real estate headed and how can our like what are you looking for what can our audience bring you so we're about to sell off this land development out here that we have a cell tower on which is pretty cool but um as for your audience you know if you guys are looking for um multifamily whether it's small multifamily or mobile home parks and you're looking for somebody to help you just make that process a little less scary, feel a little bit more efficient and have an honest set of eyes to help you analyze it and put those teams together and figure out if it's a good fit.

And if it's not, find you something that is. That's definitely the best value that I provide right now is just helping people get into multifamily and mobile home parks. Very cool. With that said, let's get to the end of the show. This is our last segment. It's called Our Famous for. This is the part of the show where we ask the same four questions to every guest every week.

I'm going to throw at you. Number one. Do you have a current favorite real estate related? book or all-time favor real estate related book it's not a hundred percent real estate related it's the ira favor book i think it's called laws of the ring or laws of the cage but it taught me a business lesson and he is a real estate investor so i'm going to try and say that it counts but one of the things he said in it that's helped me huge in my real estate business was that they asked him to go and do a speech when his dad was like getting his 19-year sober pin and they said hey can you

please come and talk about the times when your dad was drinking and all these bad things were happening and he goes no i can't but if you want me to show up and talk about all the good times when he wasn't. I'm happy to do that. And that, like, mentality, just to switch of, like, I have a choice to focus on, like, the good or the bad. And, like, that's what I'm going to highlight and focus on. Help me in business, because, again, you start to go,

I can spend my whole day saying all day long, I had these bad things go wrong with my deals, or I could say, at the end of the day, I had some good things happen. And it's just keeping your mind right for business to keep you going for, like, the next thing and the next thing and the next thing to get that deal past the finish line. that book taught me to embrace that and focus on the positive.

What about a favorite business book? I would say the Gary Keller, the one thing, just because focus has been a massive problem for me. And every time I start to think about going into something else, I just remember opening up to that first page where it says, Chase Two Rabbits Catch None. And I'm like, this needs to be my lesson every single day. I need to read that page. And that's been really big for keeping me on track.

So good. So good. That's going to be on your tombstone someday. Brandon Turner, so good. All right. What about hobbies? Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, eating pizza and playing with my dog. Have you managed to do all three of those at the same time? Well, my dog will never let me eat.

If there's any pizza around and he's around, he's going to be wanting that. But no. I haven't managed to multi-desk. Rolling with your dog over who gets the pizza. That's how you have to put all three together. That's pretty accurate, yeah. What kind of dog do you got? He's a little bit of a mutt.

He was a rescue dog during Hurricane Sandy. He's a little like 30-pound brown mix, but he's awesome. His name's Ralph. Last question for me. What do you think sets apart successful real estate investors from all those who give up, fail, or never get started? I think it's the same principles like we talked about with Jiu-Jitsu. I think people look at real estate or business and they go, I want something better out of life. I want more money.

I want more time. And then they start and they go, oh, this is hard. This takes work. This is going to be not as easy as I thought it was going to be. And then when they get put in those tough spots or they have those lumps that they get taken or they get put in those bad positions, positions, they quit. And they go, you know, I'm just going to try and find something else that's easier. So, you know, I'm going to play the lottery. And I think the people that can take a breath and stay calm and not keep jumping from from business to business or whatever the thing they're chasing is when

things get hard is the key to success. It's, you know, sticking with something when it gets hard, finding ways to find solutions in places and then taking those solutions and those lessons you've learned onto the next venture and the next deal and the next deal and the next deal. And you kind of build up your muscle member, your Rolodex. But I think that's really all it is. I think people quit when things get tough. And I think if you can learn not to and stay tenacious and persistent, you'll find success in everything. Man, you just gave me chills. I just realized that is the source of so much frustration in my life right now is I've got these goals, business goals, relationship goals, fitness goals, whatever. And I believe exactly what you said. Take what you learned at this era of life.

Apply it into this world. You'll be more successful. You'll like a snowball that keeps picking up steam as it goes down the hill and then you get this more momentum and the people that are in that are working for me are involved in these goals that have the a different attitude which is let me just go find something easier right i don't want to do that let me just where's the next magic pill that i could go take that's going to make this happen i'm constantly clashing with them and i just you saying that all of a sudden like put a light bulb off in my head that that's really what my problem is is i just need to get people around me to think like you do that are like up we hit an obstacle what can we do to get over this instead of, oh, there's an obstacle.

Let me go look for something that doesn't have obstacles. And then you end up in a $9 an hour job and you're trying to figure out a way to make a million bucks at it. It doesn't work. All right. Last question of the day. Thank you very much for this, Nick. Where can people find out more about you? So if you go to nicknick, nicknick.com slash links, my website's www.

www. www. But if you go to slash links, it's got all the ways to listen to the A-game podcast and to find me on all social media. And if anybody's interested in the due diligence stuff I do to help out, I made a due diligence checklist of all the things you can do to bring more value to your buyers. If you're selling properties, the same things I do. I made a free checklist for anybody listening. If you go to nicknicknick.com slash bigger pockets, it will be on there for free.

So hopefully you can help you get some more people that want to buy deals from you. And you can stop giving, like you said, there's a lot of bad wholesalers out there. So the more good ones out there will help the business as a whole. Man, I appreciate it. This has been a phenomenal show. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom and your strategies and your story. It's been really, it's been fun. So thank you.

I appreciate it. I know, David, you said, just to give Chris Whiteman a shout before we tapped out. Please keep him in your prayers, everybody. Chris is going through a pretty gnarly recovery. I'm incredibly impressed with his attitude, both with how he handled it when it happened. I mean, the measure of composure Chris had. He had a very, very gnarly broken bone in a fight that he was just in. And then how he's been documenting his recovery.

So a lot of respect for Chris. Please keep him in his family and your prayers. And thank you, Nick, for bringing that up. Thanks for having me, guys. this was awesome. I love everything you're doing and it's really an honor to be on. Thanks, man. This is David Green for Brandon. Get comfortable. Be an uncomfortable turner. Signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place.

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