BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 486: The Key to Scaling that Most Real Estate Investors Miss Out On (+New Podcast!) w/ Liz Faircloth & Andresa Guidelli

Episode Date: July 15, 2021

It’s understandable why so many real estate investors don’t want to partner up. I mean, who wants to split half of a rent check with someone else? This can seem especially true when you’re just starting and every cent of profit counts. But, what if the path to financial freedom was through partnerships? What if you could grow your wealth, spend less time working, and scale far faster simply by leveraging your relationships. With us are the hosts of the new InvestHER podcast, Liz Faircloth and Andresa Guidelli, two real estate veterans who partnered up to teach women about financial freedom, cash flow, and everything related to real estate. Liz and Andresa are both partners in real estate and partners in leading the InvestHER community, so they know a thing or two about what makes partnerships work and what doesn’t. We talk about questions to ask potential partners, how to test out a partnership by doing a project together, formalizing a partnership with binding contracts, how to stop resentment in partnerships, and how to end partnerships that go bad. If you’re looking to scale your real estate portfolio to new heights, you’ll definitely be using partnerships to do so. Tune in to make sure you and your partner stay protected! In This Episode We Cover: Why it’s so hard to scale in real estate without partnerships  The top questions to ask a potential partner  Testing out your partnership by doing a small deal together Making deposits into the “emotional bank account” of a partnership Finalizing your partnership agreement with an attorney Keeping information flowing on both sides Preventing (and ending) bad partnerships The new InvestHER podcast! And SO much more! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Forums OpenDoor Capital Real Estate Rookie Podcast BiggerPockets Business Podcast BiggerPockets Money Podcast BiggerPockets Podcast 088: Investing with Your Spouse, Managing Financials, and Growing Your Team with Matt and Liz Faircloth BiggerPockets Podcast 203: Finding Deals, Funding, Contractors, and Mentors with Matt and Liz Faircloth BiggerPockets Podcast 314: How to Find Rockstar Contractors and Manage Like a Boss with Andresa Guidelli Matt Faircloth's BiggerPockets Profile Ryan Murdock's BiggerPockets Profile Mindy Jensen's BiggerPockets Profile BiggerPockets Podcast 425: Focusing On Your $10,000/Hour Tasks (And How to Outsource the Rest!) with Benjamin Hardy BiggerPockets Podcast 423: Who Not How: Stop Doing the Things You Hate, Free Up Time, Be Happier and Richer with Dan Sullivan Check the full show notes here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/show486 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 486. But it comes down to, okay, something went off and usually is the expectations. We got into a partnership with completely different expectations. And that's what I've seen the most of breakdown when the expectations are not matched, or we assume that that's what the person meant and vice versa. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors, and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited

from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on to moment? It's Brennan Turner, host of the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, Mr. David, continually improving green. What's up, man? Nice nickname. Your nickname game is actually improved quite a bit. And I'm wondering if that's because our partnership has affected you positively. We do have a positively perfect partnership, don't we here on the podcast? And that's what today's show is all about. It's having a positively perfect podcast. No, no, this is about partnerships.

I don't know any more P words. But that's the goal of today's show is by the time you don't listen to this, you are going to know how to find, vet, connect with, work with, like put together partnerships that are going to help take your business to the next level because here's the truth so much of what david and i have done has been through partnerships in fact like the way that i've grown the most over the past two years like opened her capital speaking like was just bringing in partners because here's the truth like you can only be world class at like a few things like i'm sorry no matter how awesome you are like you're just probably not world class at a lot of things i'm not world class at hardly anything and so when you can bring in

other people who are world class of what they do it's amazing what happens i mean david for example you you partner in a lot of areas. I mean, like, real estate and, like, for example, you have a mortgage business, right? And you have partners there because, like, you can do some awesome stuff and the partners can do some awesome stuff. And it enables you to be the, you know, one of the bigger mortgage people, like, ever.

So, yeah, it's cool stuff. I love partnerships. And so this show is all about that today. But first, we got to get to today's quick tip. So today's quick tip is we have a new show on the Bigger Pockets Podcast Network. You know, Bigger Pocket's Money. We've got the rookie show. we got real estate and now we have the real estate invest her podcast you may have heard about before

uh it's uh and dressa giddly and liz faircloth they are our guests today but they have an amazing podcast lined up for you all and actually entire other show that you can go listen to and subscribe to and that's your quick tip go subscribe to it because they've got some good stuff coming including an interview with Sharon letcher who is the co-author of rich dad portad uh that's actually out right now on the Real Estate Invest Her podcast. So it's Invest Her like H-E-R, right? Get it? Get it? David? Invest her? I get it. Get it? Pretty clever, right? So go check it out. BiggerPockets.com slash invest her. Invest her. And you can check it out there and find it wherever podcasts are found. Most investors spend all their time talking about their high-level returns. But that's not the number

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Have NREG review your insurance with someone who gets investing at NREG.com slash BPPod. That's N-R-E-I-G.com slash B-Podd. All righty, with that said, I think it's time to get into it. David, anything you want to say or do or announce before we jump into?

I really love today's podcast. So maybe mentally prepare yourself for being ready to receive information that could be different than the way you've typically thought about real estate. A lot of what we talk about today is how to find the right partner, how to avoid the wrong partner, how to set up a partnership that's actually going to work, being okay with the fact you may have to go through a couple before you find the right one. A lot of people don't find the traction that they need in business or in real estate because they're doing jobs that they're not good at doing. Like Brandon said, you can only be

world class at a couple things of if at all. So be okay. Hey, having the conventional wisdom that you've grown up thinking challenged by today's podcast and really ask yourself, if I found the right partner, could I get over some of the hurdles I'm struggling with right now? Mr. Continual Improvement, shall we continue this show? Let's bring them in. Hey, welcome to the show. We're happy to have you on the Bigger Pockets Podcast Network.

Yeah, we're so excited to be here. And we're so honored and really pumped to have joined the Bigger Pockets Network. Our podcast, as many know or hopefully know, has been around for a few years. And we're all about empowering women to live a financially free and balanced life. Yes. And here's what you can expect from our interviews. We're going to interview successful women in real estate to know their secret sauce about real estate strategies. We also want to know their journey and what made them successful on their own terms.

So we are super excited to joining the network and can't wait for what's about to happen. Yeah. So let's get into your, we want to get quickly touching your story. because people have not heard your story before, but I know each of you have been on the show before. Liz, have been on twice or just once before? I've been on at least once. Twice. Yeah, twice. 88 and 203. I looked it up right before we got on. Oh, nice. Very good. I just said, you remember what number you were on? Mine is 314. All right. So you've been on more recent. So let's dive into each year's stories. We'll start with Liz. Just a quick refresher for those who maybe didn't listen to those episodes.

Who are you? How did you get to real estate? What do you do? Sure, sure. So I got into real estate. state right out of grad school. My husband and I met, well, we get married first. We met and then got married, but started investing in our 20s and just really from reading rich dad, poor dad, my brother-in-law, who is literally the only entrepreneur I knew in my life gave me the book and said, you need to read this? And I said, I'm going to school for social work. I want to counsel people and be a therapist, which I sort of still am, but unofficially. But anyway, you know, long story short, my husband and I just both read it at the time, boyfriend. And we're like, this is, I'm amazing. We never thought about passive income, all the terms that, you know, you don't ever hear about.

We heard about it in that book, and it really turned our eyes to diving into it. So in our 20s, no money, no experience, no one in our family that did this. Everyone thought we were crazy. Start taking local RIA meetings. And a year later, after lots of, you know, nose and hard work, got a loan for my father for $30,000 and bought a duplex outside of Philadelphia. Learned a lot on that building because it was our first time landlording. It was the first time doing anything. And then we, my husband quit his job after one duplex. It certainly was not replacing his income like a lot of other smart people talk about. We just said, oh, screw it. You know, just quit your job. And I'll, and I took a corporate job actually in sales because that was one of the big things I got from Rich Dad Portaad.

So I didn't actually become a therapist. And anyway, long story short, we grew our business. Yeah, I never, I really wanted to learn selling because it said if you have one skill as an entrepreneur, you need not to have sell. And I was like, how do you sell? You know, I don't know anything about that. So I'm like, let me take this corporate kind of management training job. I did that for about a decade. And my husband got his job. Mack could his job right when we got married. And that was 17 years ago.

So, you know, long twist and turns and things of that sort. But we grew our portfolio. We now focus mostly on multifamily syndication. We have buildings in four states. And they've really gone all in on multifamily after a lot of twists and turns and just trying different things in the business and having wins, having some losses and learning everything around the circle of investment. That's fantastic. Yeah, I definitely want to encourage people to go back and listen to each of your stories because that was like a very abbreviated version of what was an amazing long story.

So which is what we have to do today because today we want to get to talking about partnerships. But first, Andresa, let's hear about you. By the way, I'm saying your name correctly, right? I know last time I think I tortured it when I interviewed you. You are. Though that's only fine. I'm used to people who are. Okay.

So I was born in Brazil. I didn't even know the meaning of real estate, to be quite honest with you. So I came to the U.S. on my own for my master's degree. I didn't know a single person. And during my last semester, I took a sales job. As Liz said, I thought in my head, well, I need at least to get sales skills. I'm not, I don't want to be a sales person, but I need to gain more experience in sales. So I took door-to-door sales for Verizon. So I had the opportunity to talk to entrepreneurs every single day. But one day came to my manager and I said, listen, can you recommend me about? book that talks more about sales because I want to grow my team. If I make more money, you make more money. And he's like, no. And then he pushed across the table. There is small purple book. And I was like, what is this? Right. What is rich dad, poor dad? And he said, you're going to read this weekend. And then next week, you're going to come and we're going to have a talk. Because one thing I know, you're not going to stay here forever. And you're, I can see it. But you can't right now. But we'll,

get there. And that was the big turn. I read the book and I was like, how come this entire world exists about real estate? How come I don't know this? Right. And then took Richie Dad, Poor Dad courses and dive into it. Six months later, bought my first investment property. And with, I appeal the appraisal after we rehab it. And with that money, it propelled to continue investing. Start doing single family full gut renovations and then start scaling new construction, doing 15 projects at the same time. And I gain experience in both residential and also commercial real estate and larger, larger projects. And here I am. Very cool. So how did you to, how did you to meet? you guys, do you guys work together now? Is that correct? I don't want to get that story wrong.

Yeah, we do. Beyond the, obviously, the investor community, we came together and formed that. we've also worked on a number of projects together in real estate as well prior to that and still do as it comes up. So yeah, I mean, we met Andresna. I reached out to Andresa over and we met through bigger pockets, which is really super cool. But we were getting the point. Matt and I were kind of, I always say dabbling and flipping because that's kind of what we were doing. I wouldn't say we scaled our flipping business and definitely interview other people on best practices on flipping. You know, I could tell you everything not to do. But anyway, we really were struggling. I mean, we We were doing some good projects, but we were just like, this market's getting outpriced in Jersey because we were doing a lot of everything in New Jersey. And we said, we really want to go to Philadelphia. And we said, you know, there's some great markets. We don't know the markets, though, as well. And we reached, we were looking for Philadelphia investors. And And Addressa's name popped up. So we reached out. And I think I had the first call with you, Andresa. And you spoke so fast. I was like, wow, she gets right down to it. I was like, I like, I like her, you know.

So anyway, we met for coffee. We went to Philadelphia. My husband. and I, and just another husband, and four of us kind of connected and met and really developed a friendship. And that was a, you know, we didn't partner on anything. We just were friends and for many years. And then, then you had a project on the table and you said, hey, would you both be interested in partnering us on this flip? So, and then we did what, six or seven projects together over the course of the next few years. And, you know, it was one of the times we were getting together, Brandon, that we said we would get together. We'd have our little coffee at Panera. and we'd have a little like talk about some projects, we'd talk about our life, we'd talk about everything, you know, and we'd be like, wouldn't it be so amazing to ask other women in this business what they're doing and how they're doing it? We have great relationships with so many men. I have so many amazing men in my life. But her and I were like, there's just not a lot of women. We didn't see a lot of women in the business six years ago when we were meeting and what have you. So we said, wouldn't it be neat to just, you know, interview women and build a community. And if nothing else, we're going to connect.

with some great rock star women, but we think there might be other women who might need this too. And we started it just like that in a panera and created the community from there with a shared passion of wanting something for ourselves and wanting something for other women as well and creating something bigger than ourselves. So I love it. I love it. And it's called the investor community, correct? The real estate investor community. I love it. Super clever. Super clever. All right. So I want to do it. I thought today's show would be fun to do a deep dive on partnership. You know, we do a lot of like, you know, story episodes where we ask people their story, first deal, second deal, fifth deal, tenth deal. But and then every once in a while, we want to go into a topic because, you know, again, it's people listening to the show.

They're like, well, what do I do about partnerships? I want to be like, go to this episode. This is the one you want to listen to, episode 486. So let's dive into partnerships today because partnerships, I mean, they enabled me to grow. They enabled David here to grow. They made each you to grow. And probably millions of other real estate investors have grown bigger than they could have. because of partnerships. So I got a bunch of questions I'm going to throw out you today.

And David and I will kind of tag team these questions. And we'll, uh, we'll get to the bottom of this whole partnership thing in real estate. Sound good, everyone. Deal. Yeah. All right, hands in the middle. I'm just kidding. All right. Number one. What, I was doing it, Brandon. I had my hand in the middle. I believe you would. I believe you would. What questions should you ask yourself and your partner before getting into a partnership? Before I answer that, let me just, uh, Liz and I see partnerships, right, in real estate as relationships that you build. And we see a lot of people getting married very, very quick and then getting a divorce and then blaming the other partner for something that happened in that relationship. So before you get into a relationship and a

partnership, right? Before you get into that partnership, there are some questions that you need to ask yourself, the other partner, and ask questions together. So the question, The questions that you can ask yourself is, what am I good at? What am I bringing to the table? Is that skill set? Is it time? Is it funds? What is it?

That needs to be very clear. Because the worst thing that you can do is to partner up with somebody that brings the same thing. And you have the same personality, right? Two risk takers, danger. Two people that are very conscious about making a deal, danger. So, and do the same thing with your partner. talk to me about what are your goals.

Super important to talk about values, right? Liz and I always say align on values and differentiate or diverse into skill sets and personalities. And we can talk more about that. But those are the things that will recommend asking yourself and their other partner. And then together, you can come together in a meeting and say, okay, what is the vision for the business? Is this a one-time deal?

Is this a long-term deal? what happens if things don't go right? All those conversations need to happen prior of you signing an agreement or even thinking about open up an LLC. And those are the questions that we recommend. Yeah, that's so good because so many times, like, I see people make the mistake of, well, yeah, my buddy from work wants to invest in real estate. So do I. Let's do it together. Right. Or that guy from high school, I just talked to on Facebook.

He wants to invest real estate. We're going to do it together with no. question of like, well, why do you need that person? I mean, a lot of times it's a crutch. And not that a crush is a bad thing. Sometimes you just need a little bit of help when you're getting started with the motivation. But if neither of you like talking to contractors and you're trying to flip houses, you're like, oh, uh-oh. Like, well, you do it. No, you do it. And you do it. It gets weird. But if one person's really good at the math, one person's good at handling contractors, well, now you've got a winning formula, right? Yeah. So let's, let me ask this question,

kind of in a related, in a related sense. Before getting into a partnership, do you you recommend like maybe as you get into a partnership, I should say, do you recommend like, should you do one deal first? Should you try to do like or the whole business? You know what I mean? Like there's like, hey, we're going to go flip a house versus we're going to create a company and this is where the company's name is and this is the, you know, blah, blah, blah. Where do you find the line between like getting like going all in but also like testing the waters to make sure that you fit? Yeah. I mean, I just to jump into thought there. I mean, when Andres and I met, we didn't meet. we're like, we're going to create this community.

Like the first day we met, we're like, so what we're going to do is we're going to start a podcast. They're going to start a community. And then what's your personality style? My style is my style is this. And what's your skills? My experience. Like that's not the, we just had coffee, right?

It was literally just coffee. So and then it grows. And it's so interesting because what I always say to people is like we became really good friends. I got to know Andresa, not on Dressa, like the real estate investor. I got to know her. And we got to know each other really well. And then what was born out of that was we started a mastermind.

And we actually found all the women through the networking we were doing on bigger pockets. And it was five women around the country. We literally just ended that mastermind for a lot of different reasons, not because we didn't all really appreciate each other because they're great, badass women. But the five women, and we came together and said, let's do this project together. Didn't charge, everyone did it for free. It was just women coming together to help each other long before invest her. And we divided and conquered.

I saw what on Jessica could do. She saw what I could do. We started to learn about each other's strengths. We started to learn about each other's weaknesses, right? Because we all have them. And so it was just like this test case for free. No money in, nothing at stake, no, nothing on the line. We didn't know this at the time.

But in hindsight, I recommend people do a project together that is like really like low risk. Starting an LLC and buying a property is not low risk. It's actually more risky to do that with someone you don't know. her and I started a mastermind. What would happen if we didn't meet on that Thursday? Well, then everyone gets, everyone's annoyed because we didn't start the Skype at the time because that's what we used with Skype. But anyway, that was a really good test. And then we moved to doing one flip together. And then we moved to doing like a few at the same time. Then we were doing a new construction. So the time we got to invest her and we came together on that, I was like, I don't need to vet Andresa as a partner. Now, we've learned each about things about each other on this level of partnership that we didn't

really learn previously, which we've had to grow through and work through and come to a lot of, you know, meetings together and just try to collaborate on. It hasn't been perfect on any sense. And nothing is. No relationship. That's a great. It's perfect, right? So just some insight in low-risk projects is a great place to start before anything. No money was in. We didn't do any of that just yet. No relationship itself that is good can start off right off the bat where you just work everything out. People will tell you what you want to hear. People will intend to do what they know you need. You just don't know how, like people make decisions on emotions and you don't know how emotions are going to go. It's something I found with people I went into business with that became

successful through our partnership much faster than what they expected. The weight of that success literally changed those people. Their agenda changed, what they wanted changed, and some of them couldn't handle the success that came their way. And I've looked back and I've realized, I should have waited a little bit longer to get to know that person before we dumped that much on them. It's just we don't want to, right? We want to get into business and we want to start making money and we want to start taking over the world and we tell herself the best case scenario. So I really like that advice that it's not just about the partnership regarding who does what in the business. It's about the person. I think part of why Brandon and I have a good relationship is that we will figure out what

needs to be done when it comes to the business. We both look out for each other. But I don't worry that he would burn me and he doesn't worry that I would burn him. We both know we can trust each other. And so when it comes to the practical side of how are things going to get divvied up, each of us knows we will rise up to the occasion of what we need. If there wasn't that trust there, it'd be very hard to take any form of significant step. And I think that's a big piece that people miss when they're looking for a partner is that human being and how they value things, what their character is is very important. Have you guys found that, you know, have you made, maybe I should ask you this,

have you made partnerships with people that did not work out because of that reason? No, all our partnerships went perfectly fine. Of course we did. And I think that those were the biggest lessons, right? You get a lot of great lessons where your partnerships don't go right. But the worst thing that you can do is to do not take responsibility for your part in it and just blame the other person. I think that that's one big thing.

When people come to me and say, yeah, my contractor just stole money and run away. And I ask, like, what did you do to contribute to that situation as a whole? Because if you don't know that, you're going to make that mistake again. So vetting process and other things that you can put in place. In a relationship, in a partnership, one thing that we always say is the commitment. Not the commitment between the two people to make that relationship work. The commitment among themselves to make sure that they are working on their own stuff. We're both working on our own stuff.

Liz has different things that she works on. I have different things that I'm working on. But we are constantly improving and being very, very honest and straightforward with each other. And then when there are breakdowns, we are always looking like there is a breakthrough over here. And what can we learn into those relationships? Even if it was when you were in it, when the relationship is going down the hill, right? It's not pleasant. It's not good at all.

And it really like comes down to what can I do better over here? how can I handle this in a different way? And not every single thing is going to be like, okay, nice working with you. No, you go to the left. I go to the right. We're good. Right? But it comes down to, okay, something went off.

And usually is the expectations. We got into a partnership with completely different expectations. And that's what I've seen the most of breakdown when the expectations are not matched. Or we assume that. that's what the person meant and vice versa. I would also add to that like personality. So, you know, there's another, I think personality is so important and people just don't value it as much.

Even beyond like time and money and expertise, all those are important things in investing. We all know that. But personality, and that's what I did. I did that for 10 years. So while I was in the business and helping grow our investing business, that was literally the consulting I did with teams across the country, small, large. and that's what I helped them do around like kind of diverse personality groups. And it was fascinating.

It wasn't just like nice to have, but like literally the companies that built these teams that were diverse in personality, actually got more done, were more efficient, achieved their results faster. And they actually got along. They had to work on it, but they got along really well. You can see that camaraderie. When I'm just and I started connecting, you know, I'm like, I got to give you this tool because obviously I know it's so well. But now as we are in the throes of even working as deep as we ever have worked, together, quite honestly, even beyond the real estate projects, because those were more kind of

projects. We have really utilized that, and I think about that, and she thinks about that, and how we can adapt. And I think partners really need to go all in on these types of tools, because it makes such a difference. It really does, not just like a tolerating person, because Undressa tolerates things that I do, a lot of them. And I can tolerate things that And Jessa does, but like we now shift that, turn that over and say, we're going to leverage this difference. You know, we're going to leverage that. Liz is more intuitive and subjective and can change her mind a lot. We're going to leverage them, Jessa is not that way. Okay. And so more logical and more objective. But if I don't know that about her, that thing is going to annoy me. And those are the

things that people leave partnerships because of personality differences, not because they're not like sometimes committed to the goal. So I just want to reiterate that. Because that's, tends to be not just like a Cosmo Quiz, not just something fun to do on the weekend, but like critical to your success. Here's the truth about passive investing. If the strategy isn't right on day one, the returns won't save it. Multi-family real estate offers structural advantages. Many investors are overlooking, including depreciation that can help offset taxable income while cash flow continues. Bam Capital builds its investment with that reality in mind. They are focused on solid operators, tax efficiency, and long-term performance.

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You feel like you have complimentary and whatever the other word is, not complimentary skills. You know, like they work together, right? And you want to formalize this. How do you do that? I mean, like, how do you decide on a structure? Is it gonna be 50-50?

Do you need an LLC? What's the next step? Or is that the next step? Well, first of all, quick disclaimer, we're not real estate attorneys or financial divisors. So everything they were sharing over here. Yeah, right? It is just from our experience. And there's not... I'm a secret attorney on the side. So it's not like one formula fits all. Sorry to break it down, but it isn't, right? So there's so many creative ways that you can come to an agreement or a joint venture or different types of partnerships, equity, debt. And then it goes on and on. And I'm sure you guys have podcasts episodes that goes deeper in that.

The most important thing is like, what are the tasks that I'm going to be doing it right away? What is my responsibility? What are the expectations? And I'm requesting you guys to put it down. Write it. What I'm expecting from the other person. Who is responsible for what? And what are the compensations for that?

And what happens if that, it's not met. One of the most important clause that you can put is if we don't agree here, what do we agree that's going to happen? Let's say if we don't sell this house or the price, do we agree to what if we don't agree to a reduction or this rental property? We did and now we're not getting along anymore. What is the clause over here or termination or when there isn't a disagreement? Because if you get to the point where you are in the midst of disagreement, you don't agree to anything. You're just like in the midst of that. So, that clause will determine, okay, there is a disagreement. And we agreed to agree that we're going to follow

that in case of a disagreement. That has helped a lot. I was just say that, you know, what people bring to the table is accounted for of like what percent they may get. Like I know for one of our first projects where we partnered with one of our first private money partners, he took an active role in the company. We set up an LLC. We were 50 percent. He was 50 percent. He put the $50,000 down. We put our experience in, you know, in the market and really in the area that we were investing in. And he personally audited it. He personally guaranteed the loan. So we both brought, that was a value. You know, I had recently quit my job the first time, I cut my job a couple times. And we weren't like banks really didn't want to lend to us. We weren't the most bankable,

like, people, right? I had just quit my job and you think, oh, you're so excited and you're like, no one wants to lend to you. And if you don't have the assets yet built up, which we were in that bucket. So my point is saying that at that point, it was a 50-50 partnership because he brought the money, he brought some expertise, he brought some time to the table and his personal guarantee. We brought a lot of other values. That was a fair 50-50. Now, if you say to me, okay, Liz, let's talk about that. Now, you're going to go buy a property. Well, you know, now someone's experience has gone up. Someone's time has gone down, right? So these are all pieces and levers that have to continually get evaluated to really make a fair partnership. And that's where partnership sometimes

evolve, right? He is still a private money partner in our projects now, and he's a friend and an investor. Do we go 50-50 on projects now with him? Well, our business structures evolved. Our business structure has changed. So those are the other things that kind of ebb and flow as you grow and evolve and change. And those conversations on every project have to be made because that person's expectation was 50-50, but now you're getting into larger buildings. Well, I can't go 50-50 with people in a 200 unit. That's not going to work, right? It's a different structure. So, So those are important and sometimes harder conversations to have with partners that are used to one thing and now your business model has changed.

So those are all things that have to come up all the time with those people that are used to certain things too. I would love to dig into that idea of expectations. So one, Brandon hears me talk about this all the time that almost every single form of conflict is some degree of expectations that weren't met. One way that I noticed this happens frequently is when one of the part, you know, it's a lot of partners compares their share or their contribution against the other partners, as opposed to against if I didn't do it at all. So there's many situations where one partner is bringing more

value or the value they bring is more important at that stage in the process. Like if you're the money person, in 2010, you were very valuable. There was deals everywhere. No one had money. In 2021, that's not nearly as valuable. Everybody has money, right? So 50-50 does not always make sense. And I've noticed that if you have the money and you want to be a 50-50 partner or you used to be and now it doesn't make sense anymore, there's a lot of people that go hung up saying, well, you're making more than me so I don't like it versus, well, what is my money going to do if I don't invest it at all? Do you have any advice for how we can sort of handle that monster when it rears its head and says, well, look at what they're getting and jealousy can become a part of it?

Well, one of the biggest reasons why people don't partner up is because they don't think other people will carry the same load as them. So they say, might as well do it myself. But then you have zero freedom of time, relationships, purpose, money, zero type of financial freedom, right? And as you evolved, what do I value more? I value my time more, not so much the funding or anything else. So when it comes down to a partnership, those conversations need to be done before. I think that a lot of the times those tough conversations don't happen because people just are so excited to partner up and do certain things.

But then later on, you resent that person. That person doesn't even know why you're resenting them, right? So having those conversations up front and people evolve, their business evolve. it's simple as no it's no longer working. Now we're having a conversation of are we able to adjust this or we're going to go partways. And you can you both can create that expectations. But having an open communication, Liz and I can say things to Liz that she's not going to like it. That's how our relationship is very, very strong. One thing that Liz always says that we need to put money in the bank, meaning Liz and I relationship, we, have meetings with each other. So we trust each other to the extent that if something happened, I have money in the bank with her. She knows where I stand and vice versa. But people don't have money in the bank with each other. So they will take, what do you mean you won five percent more, 20 percent more earning more than me? And then becomes that competition that doesn't help anybody.

Anything I'm missing list on this? No, no, the emotional bank. I think it was Stephen Covey who first talked about that. And it's so interesting because it's not real, but it's so true. Like the people that you have these relationships with that have been built upon, you know, and Jessica could be curt with me on a text. I'm not going to like, we're done. We're never partnering again. Let's just burn the investor community. I'm done with you. No, because we have so much deposits. But it's when you don't have those deposits. I mean, even last week, I just and I got together. It's not convenient to get together. Her and I live an hour away. we're bouncing a lot. Our mission is to literally empower

our remit to live a financially free and balanced life. So we both travel like an hour to see each other. But that once a month face to face, Andres and I were going to do it at Zoom. I'm like, we're meeting. Is that cool? She's like, yeah, we totally need it. Because we are like, we just get so much done together in person. We chat. We talk about our lives. And that is more important than tasks. And that's what business partners don't realize enough.

They put the tasks over the relationship and they wonder why they're squirming over 5% or 10% it's because they're not depositing in the relationship, especially during COVID? Who is depositing in the relationships? It's like having a relate, my spouse, I have to deposit into the relationship with my husband or I'm not going to have one.

You ever have those situations where like, because this happens to me all the time, where you are friends with somebody, whether it's a coworker, whether it's a boss, whether it's an employee, whether it's a partner, whatever. And like, when life gets digital and you start texting and there's Slack messages or whatever you use management software and it's all very task oriented, you forget the very simple

fact that you just like that person. And then like you get in person with them and you're like, oh, that's right. I like this. Like all the conflicts go like almost all the time will go away. Like for this reason, like I deliberately like, you know, I live in Hawaii and bigger pockets offices there in Denver. I deliberately go back like at least twice a year, if not more. So everyone remembers, oh yeah, we all like, this is not just Brandon works in Hawaii and people

give them tasks. And like I get together with the team. same with my Open Door Capital team. We get together in person because it's just easy to just get frustrated with people and get angry because you just plain forget that you like those people. And so, yeah, I love that point of meeting in person as much as possible. The one thing about communicating, right, I can get very, very easily on tax message. But Liz and I have very clear expectations regarding communication, right?

If it is yes or no answer or date, confirming date or something, that can be a tax. when it's more than a paragraph, then it requires a call, right? In person, it's more like strategic. So we have those boundaries. I don't tax her until a certain hour and vice versa. We respect each other's private life. But as an introvert, I go to task, right? But I am mindful that the relationship is always important.

And then if you're getting to only tax and you are not able to build a partnership with somebody through tax. right you wouldn't do that with my contractor or with somebody else so with your partner if you're looking to build a long-term relationship with somebody you got to either get on the call or in person if possible but tax won't cut it oh man that's such good advice i've been guilty of violating that one many times i can send very low by the way my brain works once i get on something i'll just roll with it and i can make these very logical points in a text message that who knows how they're being conveyed to the person reading it, right? There's a really funny key and peel video

where they're texting each other. I think there might be some bad language in it, so be careful when you watch it. But basically, it starts off, you've seen it, like, someone, hey, do you want to come hang out? And then the guy's like, do I want to come hang?

Yes, and he starts misinterpreting, like, I'm at the bar. Where am I at? Yeah. At the bar? Where do you think I am? Yeah. And it escalates to the point that he shows up ready to fight to the death

with like a weapon to kill the guy. And he's like, hey, you're here. Come join the party. So now you guys put a language barrier in it, right? I can barely speak English as guys can tell, right? So when Liz texts me or I text her or have a partner and she's like, what do you mean? I was like, what do you mean? What do you mean?

Of course I mean it, what I wrote, right? And what I wrote does not make sense. Or vice versa. I was like, is she mad at me? What is she thinking? So all of this conversation that goes in our head is not productive. just getting to a call and say, hey, and we know more than like two or three back and forth is a call. They say, hey, what do you mean by that?

Can you walk me through? Can you brainstorm with me? What's going on here? But it's funny because we're all guilty, especially, you know, after COVID. We're all guilty of it. You don't meet people like, here are my terms. This is how I operate and so good to meet with you. Like, it had to happen over time and it had to happen where going back for a half hour, back and forth, back and forth.

back and forth on text. And we both knew that it wasn't useful. But then we're like, okay, let's stop. And that's the other thing is there's something we do every month. We like talk about, like, what can we continue doing, start doing and stop doing and working together in our business. And I think, again, it's like working on the business. You have to take time to do that. We put terms in place or what's working for you? And she'll share this with me. Like, Liz, I'm taking you out of this. It takes way too long when you're involved. But here's where you shine. And I need that feedback. Or vice versa. Like, I don't, you're, I'm not following you on this project.

And she's like, I can really use this. Oh, okay. Let's do that. So it's really so healthy. And more people need to do that in a relationship. And it's not, people don't understand how important it is. That's what I love about what's coming out of this conversation is that when you write down, I'm going to do this, you're going to do this.

It seems so simple. And how could it ever go wrong? But every relationship goes wrong because emotions get involved and you don't know what people are. And we always don't account for that when we're thinking about the partnership, that that's such a big piece. I know I don't love meetings. I actually nobody, I mean, I don't think anyone likes meetings. I really don't like them.

But I found if we don't meet every single week, the other person has resentment that starts building, frustration that's building, their mind starts thinking I should leave this partnership. I don't want to do this thing or they're waiting for me to give them direction at it. Something goes wrong emotionally. And then the whole project torpedoes. And I look back and like,

that is such a dumb reason this thing didn't work. we could have fixed that so easily. And it's like that with our clients on the real estate team, we have a rule that you are not allowed to share bad news via text, email, anything other than a phone call. You have to be able to hear their voice and they have to hear your tone. It's very, very important. And I'm just, I don't like meetings, but I really don't like the problem that comes from not meeting, right?

Like, becomes this petri dish of negativity. It's not like I haven't talked to this person for six months and happy thoughts grew in that place. that just isn't the way it goes. And I think that's why it's very important that even if it's a short five to 10 minute meeting, I can tell with that person's feeling by the tone of their voice, by how excited they are when we talk, by the hesitant. Are they keeping secrets?

Are they not sharing how their day went? That's a sign they might be upset. And the same goes for them with me. If I'm not happy with their performance, they can tell. And sometimes I don't even have to address it. They can just, oh, David doesn't like that I just took off and didn't tell anybody where I was going for four days. I better not do that again.

So, you know, I know I'm curious what practices you guys have put in place to try to keep it on a calendar and keep it systematic where you're doing that. Well, that's where I come in, right? I'm all about how can we save time here and be more efficient. So processes in place, standard operating procedures, as Liz said, we meet once a month to talk strategically about what's working, what's not working. And then we look at what softers can we use here to take the human being out. of the equation and just bring her expertise when it's really needed so she can shine. Another, we're, I think you were, you're already finished, Liz. I'm not sure, but we just finished reading the book, Who, Not How? Yeah. And it's really remarkable. The shifts that we're, making it and taking the tasks out of our plate, even in a different level, and hiring the right

people to really do what they're good at and have more freedom of time. So we can really focus our time in other projects that we are very passionate about. Yeah, that's really good. You know, you mentioned earlier this idea of like, you know, aligning with your partner and then keeping that open line of communication. We talked about like, you know, you know, you used to who not how. I wanted to bring up just a quick story. It just happened in our open door capital life. So a lot of people know, Ryan Murdoch, you know, he and I started open door capital together, one of my best friends in the world lives out here in Maui with me and he's awesome right so we started together and Ryan was basically a COO he was like running the company like he knew every piece of every

bit of that was going on in the company and I just let him run it but after like I know six months to a year he started just getting burned out and tired of all the work and being like in charge of everything so like because we had that open conversation like sitting on my linai or my front porch and we're chatting all the time we have these conversations I got to see that happening and so like like we are open and honest. He says, and hey, I just don't want to work this many hours. I want to go diving more often. Because Ryan, like, that's one of the downsides of partnering. I say downsides, but it's one of the upside and downsides of partnering with real estate investors, right?

We all get into this because we read like books like Rich Dad Poor Dad and we want that lifestyle. So it's you partner with people who also don't want to work. Like it's kind of like what we do, right? Like everybody we work with doesn't actually want to work that much. So, yeah, at least not for too long. And so anyway, but because of that, there was never like the animosity. There was never weird. Like it was just like, hey, open conversation. And so Ryan actually stepped back from like being in charge.

And Walker now is my C-O. And Ryan, we just call him the mercenary. He does a lot of stuff, but he does it on his terms. And it's great. In fact, I love it. He's happier. I'm happier. Everyone's happier about like the way things run now.

But that wouldn't have been possible without that open conversation. And knowing things changed, agendas change, all that changes. So again, just something to think about for personalities in this industry. is we're all looking for that same thing, that financial freedom down the road. I'm not saying everybody is going to not work forever and wants to go diving, but long term, like we're not hiring people who are just content at a job for 40 years. And that's okay. That makes people, I think, work even harder in the short term so they can get the long-term

freedom stuff. Well, I think Liz and Andresa both commented, you want someone with a complementary skill set. They don't do the same tasks as you. You don't want to both hate talking to contractors. but the opposite end of that is you have to have the same goal. If you're not going in the same direction, the partnership is terrible. And that is, oh, man, this is like gold. This is going to save people so much money and heartache just getting into this.

I've noticed that Brandon and I tend to draw people that want to partner with us or work for us that are hoping that they can work for two years and retire and never have to work again. And so we are not actually retired and never working again. That's why you hear our voices right now on a podcast. And so I've had to learn to be very careful about if this person wants to achieve financial freedom and they just want to intern for six months to learn what they're doing, go do it and never work again. We're not going the same direction, right?

My goals are to build a very big portfolio that would allow me to become one of the top or the top real estate investing educators in the world. That's what I want to do for bigger pocket. So if you come work with my company, that's what you're signing up for. That's what you have to want to do too. And now I'm very careful when people say, I want to come partner with you. I want to come work with you. I'll do it for free.

Are we going in the same direction? And I'm kind of am curious if everyone here would mind sharing a story of a partner who was not going in the same direction with them and what the red flags were so that the listeners may notice it when they get in a similar situation. Yeah, I'll share. We partnered with everyone earlier. None of I would meet people at a networking event. And they'd be like, do you do. Like, what's your favorite caller? Blue.

Mine too. let's go. Let's seriously, like we, I think so. Pick them up. I feel like so much of what I've put into my relationship with Andessa and building with her has come from mistakes we've made in the past, right? It's not like we've done it great all the time. But anyway, so many red flags.

I think one of the biggest things is getting really clear on, you know, I think that active and passive, just the idea of active and passive is a concept that doesn't, we talk about passive income. But we don't talk enough about, I think, where people are, how involved they want to be or less involved. And Jess and I have had these conversations. And it's evolved, even in our investor community and in our roles in our company and what we're building. So what I mean by that, though, is, you know, I remember our partner. We met early on. We were flipping properties together. And, you know, I knew personality assessments, right? So here you think I'm like the queen of

knowing people and kind of figuring it out. And, you know, over time, it just showed us that that the personality was actually quite similar to Matt's. And I said, Matt, you guys are really similar. This isn't going to work. He's like, no, no, it's great. We talk about so many ideas. I'm like, yeah, this problem. Seriously, Matt, people pay me a lot of money to help them.

You need to listen to me. He's like, no, no, no, he's great, he's great, he's great. You know, Matt loves everyone. But anyway, sorry. He's gotten tougher over the years. But anyway, so when he met this guy, six months, like, they just literally just followed each other. around. And it just was, you know, six months later, he's like, this isn't working. We're really not

getting anywhere. We have a lot of ideas, but no one seems to be executing. I'm like, yeah, because I told you that six months ago. But anyway, a red flag is when you're not making progress the way you probably should. And something isn't really shifting. There's not growth. Now, it doesn't happen overnight, but you should see some ounces of growth. It should be like, okay, we're here. Now we're here. It should be some momentum on some level. And when you have so much similarity, even though they had the same goals and they had the same interest. That was all great. They were aligned, but they weren't different enough in terms of what they were going to do

and how they were going to do it. And they got each other excited, which is always a disaster. People are partners with you and they're just like you and they're both excitable. That's a disaster waiting to happen. So I think of that because that could have been cut down if he listened to me, but more importantly, if your wife is not expert in personality assessments or husband, is this person so similar to me that we're going to get in each other's way? you know they they they something in them should kind of like rub you a little differently like wow this

this person's not talking as much as I need them to but they have so many other great things and I think bring this to the table we like people like ourselves and I think that's the biggest problem extroverts like other extroverts like other extroverts quite honestly yeah and introverts don't even want to talk to people until like they're really talking they're like they only want to talk to people that don't talk and they just sit there and not talk yeah get to the point you know I honestly something and it takes me five minutes I'm just like um I just need 10 seconds of your time. time. Like, because she's more concise. I'm not a concise person. So I think that's a big thing. And I think that's a story. I think about that partnership. And we could have saved a lot of time and energy if we

kind of get out of our own way and get different personalities on board. That reminds me of this scene in Lord of the Rings where all the trees get together to talk about if they're going to help in the battle. And like, meanwhile, the earth is being scorched as they're all just talking and deliberating over what to do. When you don't have a decision maker, they like to do that. That's a, great point. One thing that I would say is that you can't spot those red flags even way prior, right? When you are having those conversations about, okay, what is our business plan or what is your vision and everything else? And a very quick tip that I would say is that did that person show up on time? And if that person was late, that person gave you a heads up. Three times in a row being late

to an appointment, that tells you something that that person is going to be late in the future. And if that's not important to you, that's okay. But for a contractor, I'll say, right, a contractor. If I am meeting the contractor there for an estimate and he or she is late, that's a red flag for me because in my head, the concept of time for that person is not important. And time inside a rehab project, it is money out of my pocket. it two weeks late, three weeks late, it is less profit. So always think about what is your relationship, how you're building that foundation, even prior, how all those calls going.

Are you guys getting excited? Is there any type of execution going on? Because when you have bigger thinkers and visionaries, they're very low into execution. So who in the team is going to execute? And if you have only people that execute, you don't have. bigger thinkers. So diversity is necessary. Yeah, this is where the whole like the book traction and the book Rocket Fuel, which is like kind of the sequel to traction coming. So I mean, I got so I have a sit on my desk pretty much 24-7 now because it talks so much about like in the yeah, you need to have

the integrator person. You need to have that that visionary. And the both roles are super, super important because without the visionary, you just, you just spin in circles. Without the integrator, you just sit around and talk over beer and talk about how cool it's going to be and nothing ever gets done. Yeah, so important. So important. Hey, question for you. What about when partnerships go bad? Like, first of all, how do you prevent that?

And can you prevent that? Are there legal, like, are the things you should include clauses in the paper, the paperwork that you put together? And then we'll move into if they do go bad. What do you do? How do you dissolve things? Oh, thank you, Frances. Being so nice to each other.

You know, I think one of the pieces is that I think about some early on partnerships. and I remember just Googling partnership agreements, and I think we used a few templates online, which I do not recommend. And I remember that really bit us later because we had a few properties with that partner, and we just really needed to go separate ways. And so my point there has put everything in writing

and then have an attorney who's very, very schooled in that type of work, make sure they review it and say, okay, worst case scenario, what is going to happen? Like have that attorney push you to make sure, you put everything in writing that it's very clear. And it's painful to do this. I mean, I felt like in the past, right, that could be a part-time job as reviewing agreements. And it's not something I enjoy doing. I don't know who enjoys it. But it's necessary and it's important. So bottom line, just get a third party involved in the process. Don't be doing anything

yourself or asking in some Facebook community. Can you send me what partnership agreements you have? And I'll just tweak it from my needs. Don't do that. Not smart. It's worth the money, 500 bucks or however I'm going to cost. Think about how much money is going to cost you. legal fees if it doesn't work out. One of the most impactful things I ever did. One of my partnerships I had was with Mindy Jensen, I had hosted the Money podcast, her husband, Carl, and then Ryan Murdoch and I. We bought it a mobile home part together out in Maine.

And I remember I'd never done this before because I just, I've always been the guy that just downloaded the partnership agreement off the internet kind of thing. And anyway, so we sit down because we're like, this is a pretty legit amount of money that we're put into this thing. We've never worked together before. And so we sat down and we did a conference call. It was me and Ryan in one room, an attorney was there. and then it was Mindy and Carl all on a conference call. And that attorney just asked us questions.

It was one question to another question, to another question. And stuff that I would never have thought about. Like, just like, well, what happens if, you know, Mindy and Carl get separated? And I go, how do you? I don't know. We never talked about that. What happens if you and Ryan hate each other? What happens if you get sick, Brandon, and you can't perform your duties that you said

you're going to do? What happens if, you know, and just on and on and on and on. And an hour later, like, we were done. And I felt so good and secure because we had gone to that. And then we get the bill. Yeah, it was like $400. It was like, how have I not done this for every like partnership I have ever done? It's such a, an easy and fairly low cost way to have all those things covered.

And for those of you that are uncomfortable, right, having those conversations thinking about, okay, what happens if I die? What happens if you lose dies? What happened if you both die at the same time? Like all those conversations, there's a book that I recommend that's called First Conversation by Susan Scott. It's just part of doing business. If you're concerned about your partner, say, why do we have a contract? Don't you trust me? It's my word.

I'm sorry, it's just part of doing business. So you can blame on that if you want. Once you have that, you do your best to cover up the, you know, to care for problems. You got the attorney stuff. But then at some point you go, you know what? We're going to end this thing. I don't like it anymore. It's going south.

I don't like working with them. It was, you know, we tried. It just didn't work out. What do you do? Communication is everything, right? I mean, it's like no one wants to go through that, right? Who really wants to go through? It's like a breakup.

I mean, who wants to go through a breakup? I mean, obviously, you learn things, you grow from it. There's no perfect recipe for it. I'll just say, I think, especially if you're going through it with a number of people, people have to be true to what they think, what's better for it. And something that I've always said, and my husband and I will say to in our own dealings and stuff. And And Andres and I have said is like, what's best for the business? What's best for Liz?

What's best for Matt? What's best for Andre? Like you really have to continually get really clear, especially if it's not working out and have honest conversations, really tough honest conversations. Don't skirt around it. Don't just, you know, it's not easy. But you have to kind of face it and try to get the best outcome. you can, which is ending something and hopefully remaining in relationship with the person, if you want to. Sometimes people are in partnerships. I don't want to see that person again.

I've had other partnerships that haven't worked out that I adore the person, right? I actually really do adore the person. It's just what we came together to do didn't work out, right? Different partnership. We have other partners that were like, we're going to go sue that person because they stole money from us. Right. So there's all varying degrees of partnerships and why things don't work. But I think being honest with yourself, being honest with each other, doing your best, and showing up as fairly as you can, without getting taken advantage is what we all can do. Being kind as well, somewhere along the way, too, is critical, right?

But it's not easy. And there's always two stories of the situation. My version, Andreas's version and someone else's version, and Matt's version with partners we didn't work out with our deals early on. It's just, it's unfortunate, but we all have to face it if you're going to be in business. Yeah, it's hard. but it's one of those things that like it comes with the territory. And so as long as you are like the way I look at that and I know you guys do as well,

it's like I want to be able at the end of any partnership if it went bad. And I've had partnerships go bad. I've had situations not work. I'm not bad. Well, I've had something that's gone bad. But mostly it's usually just like we just find out that we don't work well together. That's probably the most common thing. We start to do some together.

And then it's just like, you know what? Like it's just not working the way I wanted it to. Let's. So what I want to make sure. And again, I know you guys do too is like I want to make sure that I was full of integrity at every single point. so that they could never come back to me and say, you know, like, you did something wrong. So as long as you ever listen to this, you hold yourself to the highest standard possible.

If your partner wants to be a jerk or they want to do something jerky or, you know, you can't prevent that necessarily. But by holding the highest integrity, like you're going to get through it. You're going to be fine. And you're going to learn some powerful lessons. In fact, almost all of my hiring and partnering lessons have come because of bad hiring and partnerships. Right. Like, that's how you learn.

That's how you get better. It was the lessons I learned on those failed ones that allowed me to build, you know, open door capital to where it is today. is because of the failures and the bad partnership. So don't look at it as a bad thing either. Yeah, absolutely. And one other thing that I will add is that in the midst of it, the ego comes into play, right? And that's where you need your core team or people that you really trust to say,

listen, it's my ego coming to play over here? Am I missing something? What possibilities we can create here to be creative? And then both parties get out of it, feeling okay about the situation. and then you bounce ideas with your poor team. But at the end of the day, if there's no workability, there's nothing personal. There's just not workability.

That's a good point. Well, as we start to kind of wrap things up here, we're going to head to the famous four in a minute. Any just final things we didn't cover that you guys think that would help people when it comes to partnerships, whether it's finding partners, vetting partners, you know, setting them up. Partner.

I'm just going to say, stop doing things by yourself. Being a solopreneur does not give you financial freedom. There's no financial freedom without freedom of time. And once you find the right person, the right skills, and that that person takes things from out of your play, feels good, but it feels very, very good. And you just get used to it. Then you don't want to do anything.

You're just like, let other people do it. But you've got to start somewhere. So start buying people's time, buy somebody's two hours for the month. Start with two hours. Buy somebody's time. And then you can increase your capability like that. The answer to the thought I had was around leveling up. Like, the only thing we didn't talk about was like, if you're going to partner with someone,

you really have to level up yourself and your own stuff, if you will. Like, it's really easy just to, quite honestly, it's easier at times just to do something yourself. Because you don't have to answer to anyone. There's no adapting. There's no, let's have a conversation. Let's put it into writing. I mean, it's just easier. Easier in the short term, I should say.

Not easier in the long term. You know, but it wouldn't be wonderful long term. It wouldn't be wonderful for sustainability. And that's the beautiful thing about partnership. So I'll just say it is like a marriage. A true partnership is like a marriage. And you have to look at yourself constantly and say, what can I be doing differently?

What can I do be better? It's not just this fleeting thing that you come together on an LLC and you think it's going to be this not that important of a thing. I take that pretty seriously. And that also prevents you or encourage you to say, do I want to do that with everyone or a core amount? So constantly look at yourself in the mirror and you have to level yourself up. Phenomenal information today.

I love this because, again, partnerships can change lives. So thank you guys for sharing that today. And before we move out of the show, let's get to our last segment. And that is our Famous Four. The Famous Four is a part of the show where we ask the same four questions every week to every guest. And I know we've asked you two before. But maybe your answers have changed. So let's find out.

Question number one. And we'll start with, how about Liz? Favorite, either current favorite or all-time favorite, real estate-related book. I'm going to say cash flow quadrant by Robert Kiyosaki. It's their second book. And I honestly, I think it's probably my favorite because, and I think about it, I think in those terms, right, the E, the S, the B and the I. If you don't know what I'm talking about, read the book.

But as you grow and evolve, right? We want to be in the I. We don't want to be as much in the E and the B. I'm sorry, E and the S, but more on the, I guess, the bottom quadrant. Yeah, that book, like the Kiyosaki and Sharon Letcher, Am I saying her the last name right? I think so. Yeah, she was on your show, right?

Just recently. So, like, their genius was in their ability to put these frameworks, like the idea of rich dad, poor dad, and the idea of the quadrants. And, like, the frameworks that they put. And that's why, like, Sharon is a, she's written a ton of books. She's a master at this framework thing and why she's such a good teacher. So, anyway, I'm excited. I have actually listened to the episode yet because it hasn't come out yet of your guys'

show with her. But I know that's out like. It is. Yes. Yes. People can listen to it right now. All right, very, very cool. And where do they go for that?

I know we'll probably say it again in a minute. But it's on biggerpockets.com slash invest her, H-E-R. You can find all our episodes there. Yes. All right. Very cool. And, Andreas, what was your real estate book? What would you recommend?

It's not a real estate book, but it is one. It is who, now how. I think this book has this is having the same impact as rich dad, poor dad did at the beginning of my career. Yeah, we had both Ben Hardy and. and Dan Sullivan, the two authors of that book on our show recently. And it was, and both of them were just incredible. Like that concept, who, not how. It changed my life.

It's changed your business. Yeah, it's such a great concept. So good recommendations. All right. David Green, number two. I think we kind of discovered number two, right? Didn't we just get into business books? Sort of, I guess.

But you got any other ones? Do you have another business book you like? I would go with, for me, seven habits of highly effective people. I mean, it's an oldie, but goody, you know, by Stephen Covey. Again, I think of those seven habits. I remember, I mean, I read that book. probably one of the first books I've ever read in personal growth. And it's such an impactful book about seeking to understand and sharpening the saw. I mean, just like core principles for your life and for your business that I think about. I'll share two of my latest grade by choice by Jim Collins and mastering the Rockefeller Habits by Vern Harnished.

All right. What about some of your hobbies? Hobbies. Under COVID, there's new there's no, there's no, hobbies, like surviving mode. But I really like water painting and I like to dance salsa. Yeah, I'm more, if it's a hobby, but I like running. I enjoy it. It's like therapy for me. So I really enjoy running a lot. And I just am working on making time for getting back into tennis, which I really enjoy the sport. I just actually gave a lesson to my kiddos a couple weeks ago and they didn't really listen to me. But because I'm like, I actually played tennis. And they're like, what? Who cares? I'm like, oh, okay, whatever. But anyway, but yeah, I really, I just love the sport. So it's a hobby I'm working at getting back into. I think I'm going to get into that too.

You know, Josh Dorkin lives out here in Maui now. We're like, we're like neighbors. And he goes in place of the tennis club like every other day. And he's been bugging me to go and I keep going, I don't know, but I love racquetball. So I'll probably love tennis, right? Absolutely. Maybe. Tennis is pretty fun. And Brandon, you can cover half the court with your wingspan alone. You can do like two steps and you can do the whole thing. This is true. This is true. I can just like sit down in a lawn chair and probably beat people. That's exactly right. Just switch it from right hand to left hand. All right. What do you believe each, and we'll start with Andresa this time and go to Liz, what do you believe sets apart successful real estate investors from those who give up,

fail, or never get started? I think this is a commitment that they have with themselves in life and just improving themselves as a person in general. There is no strategy or exit strategy that you can learn if your mind is not prepared to receive that. So personal growth for men, the commitment to succeed is the most important thing. Yeah, and I'd say just making time for continuous improvement. I don't know how anyone becomes successful in this business overnight. I don't know anyone that has. Even if you buy one rental, I mean, you know, and you want to go to two, if there's some continuous improvement that needs to happen, not only knowing what to do, but then actually doing it. And usually has a lot to do with yourself and the things that are closest to you. It's not everyone else.

So I think that's helped me over time. And sometimes it's tough, right? Feedback about yourself or feedback to things you need to do. But it's continuous improvement and really being committed to the greater goal like Andreessa said would be for me. Continual's improvement. That's like such a powerful phrase. I think you need to write a book on that someday. Just like who not how? Continual improvement. Like that concept. So good. All right. Well, you too. Thank you so much for joining us today. I'll let David ask the final question, but I was pumped. This is great. Final question is, where can people find out more about you, too? We're just so excited and honored to be, be on the BiggerPockets platform now in terms of our podcast. So you could definitely check us out

at BiggerPockets.com slash InvestH-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-E. And that's going to direct you guys over, tell you about a bunch about us, and then direct you do over our website, which is the real estate investher-H-H-R-R.com. We have a platform, global community that we're building to really empower women, to live a financially free and balanced life. And we do that through lots of different ways, through meetups and communities and membership and all that good stuff. But, and then we also have some partnership, more questions, right? And Jessa, we have something we wanted to. Yeah, we want to give away because Liz and I prepare a cheat. Am I saying this wrong? A PDF file. I'm just going to say a PDF file. See? A PDF file that you guys can download with all the questions that you should ask yourself,

ask your partner, and get together and ask. So it's, you can. can go on the real estate investor.com slash giveaway and download the PDF file. It can also follow us on Instagram at the Real Estate Investor. There we go. Awesome. You see you. Well, thank you so much. Everyone go check out the new or the, I guess, the newly Bigger Pockets networked podcast,

the real estate investor. Yeah, you too just crush it. And we're excited to have you as part of the podcast family over here at Bigger Pockets. So thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you, guys. This is David Green for Brandon.

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