BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 512: From Losing $150k at the Blackjack Table to 7-Figure Profits in Real Estate

Episode Date: September 30, 2021

Back in 2004, Jude Bernard was sitting at a blackjack table in Vegas. This wasn’t his first game of the day, nor his second, or even his third. Jude had been sitting at that blackjack table for thirty hours straight. When the final game ended, he walked away, $150,000 poorer than he started. Jude then found the closest tattoo parlor, walked in, and got the phrase “never again” tattooed on his hand as a testament to his mistake. Now, Jude runs a rental and flipping empire, settling for no less than seven-figure profits on his fix and flips. He also runs The Brooklyn Bank, a non-profit designed to help economically empower people of color in New York City. Through his earlier gambling mistakes, Jude realized that no matter what, the “house” always wins. So, he searched for a way that he could become the “house” in his environment, and the best way was through real estate investing. Jude has built a very strong foundation for his real estate investing through taking calculated risks, nurturing his relationships, and letting his fears fuel his fire. Jude is currently raising money to help the people of Haiti through their most recent natural disaster. Brandon and David have both pledged $5,000 each. To help out, even more, Brandon wants all listeners to know that If you donate $5,000 to The Brooklyn Bank organization, Brandon will host you in Maui! For full details please contact [e-mail]. In This Episode We Cover: Purchasing properties in very expensive markets (like New York City) Building relationships with everyone you talk to, funneling more deals into your pipeline  Making sure every deal has a seven-figure upside (seriously!) Using your greatest fears to propel you to the next level  Gambling addiction and the message behind why the “house” always wins How the Brooklyn Bank is helping build a pathway out of poverty  How you can spend a week with Brandon and help support a great cause And So Much More! Links from the Show: BiggerPockets Podcast 512: From Losing $150k at the Blackjack Table to 7-Figure Profits in Real Estate BiggerPockets Podcast 455: Mixtapes to Millions in Real Estate with DJ Envy and Cesar Pina The Brooklyn Bank  Brandon’s Maui MasterClass Brandon Turner's Instagram David Greene's Instagram [e-mail] [e-mail] Check the full show notes here: https://biggerpockets.com/show512 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 512. And one thing you cannot do is just have a defeatist attitude, you know, because once you have a defeatist attitude, you're defeated. Like, I will not lose, you know. At the end of the day, I may lose this hand, I may lose this round, I may lose this battle. But, you know, at the end of the day, every day when the sun comes up, the world reset and I get a second chance until the day that I die. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio.

real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on, everyone? It's Brandon Turner, host of the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my co-host, Mr. David Jumpshot Green. What's up, man? How you doing? Hey, hey, I haven't heard that for a long time, but I like that nickname. I was going to go with like 21 green and that'll explain in the show why I would say that. But that jump shot sounded a little more awesome because I heard you had a killer jump shot.

We talked a little about blackjack. We do talk about. But what we never talked about was green jack. Is that a thing? That sounds like an alcoholic drink. Come on over my club. We'll get you some green jack. Anyway, today's show is not about green jack.

It's about, uh, it's about, uh, it's about. Blackjack, it's a little bit about basketball. It's a whole lot about real estate investing and a whole lot about giving back and financial literacy, financial abundance with an amazing guest. I have an uncomfortable question for you. If your rent collection drop to 80% next month, how long would your cash flow hold up? What about 70% for the next three months? Would your cash reserves cover it? I talk all the time about scenario planning.

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It's one of 12 professional grade reports inside Stessa Pro. Try it for yourself. Visit stessa.com slash mkTG slash bigger pockets and get six months of Stessa Pro for free because it's better to discover your risk in a report than in a recession. For decades, real estate has been a cornerstone of the

world's largest portfolios, but it's also historically been sort of complex, time-consuming, and expensive. But imagine if real estate investing was suddenly easy, all the benefits of owning real, tangible assets without the complexity and expense. That's the power of the Fundrise flagship fund. Now you can invest in a $1.1 billion portfolio of real estate, starting with as little as $10. The portfolio features 4,700 single-family rental homes spread across the booming sunbelt. They also have 3.3 million square feet of highly sought after industrial facilities, thanks to the e-commerce wave. The flagship fund is one of the largest of its kind. It's well diversified, and it's managed by a team of professionals. And it's now available to you. Visit fundrise.com

slash BP Market to explore the fund's full portfolio, check out historical returns, and start investing in just minutes. Carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses of the Fundrise Flagship Fund. This and other information can be found in the fund's prospectus at fundrise.com slash flagship. This is a paid advertisement. Here's why savvy real estate investors are obsessed with bonus depreciation. It lets you take that rental property or commercial building you own and depreciate most

of the cost against your income. Legally, 100% IRS compliant. That's instant cash flow improvement. Cost segregation guys is the number one firm nationwide, specializing in identifying these faster depreciating assets in your property. They've completed tens of thousands of studies across all 50 states from remote cabins to apartment complexes. So if you own investment property, this is a no-brainer. So visit costsegregationguise.com slash BP for your free proposal and find out how much you could save this tax season. So our guest today is Jude Bernard and Jude

runs a real estate business but also a nonprofit called the Brooklyn Bank. You're going to hear about both that today. He got started a long time ago. He's been in the business for like since like the late 90s, went through a tumultuous. Is that a word? Tumultulus. I don't know. That's a word somewhere in there, right? I don't know. I still think I got it wrong. Time during the recession, you're going to learn about the lessons he learned during the, the Great Recession 0708. Some of the things he did to stay afloat during that time, which I think definitely applies to today and what he's doing today to create a seven figure upsides. You're going to hear more about that and more. So without further ado, let's get to our interview with Jude Bernard.

All right, Jude, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast, man. It's really good to have you here. Hey, Brandon. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. Pleasure. Thanks, man. Let's get into your story a little bit.

I mean, you're in real estate now, but were you always in that? I mean, you've always been kind of financially literary, like super like financial, like savvy guy or is it something that developed over time? Nah, far from it. Far from it. I think I kind of learned a hard way over the years. And I kind of got into real estate rather early. I've been in real estate since 97.

You know, October 31st, 1997 is when I purchased my first property. I was working at, I was working at Verizon. I was a telephone man. And it's a real funny story how I got into real estate. I had a girlfriend at the time. And I was just a telephone man doing my thing, going to work and stuff like that. And, you know, paycheck to paycheck. And I remember one time she asked me to purchase her a CD.

And I was like, all right, sure. I'll get it for you on Thursday when I get paid. And she literally ripped me once. She's like, I have to wait until the end of the week to get a CD, you know, like a $20 CD, just at the other. And that kind of inspired me to do more. So based on that, while I was working at Verizon, I was also working on my MBA. At the same time, you know, I had thoughts about, you know,

going upper management and stuff like that. And, you know, I took some student loans out. and I purchased my first property with that. And that's kind of how I got started, and it's been one after another since then. Where was that at? Brooklyn. No, excuse me, excuse me.

The first property that I purchased was actually in Queens. I purchased a two-family house, Southside Jamaica Queens. The whole thing cost me about $12,000 to get into. It was a 3% down FHA, how I got into it. I was into it for about $15,000, which I used my student loan money to get into it for. It was worth about 150.

And a few months later, I ended up buying the building next door. And that's kind of how it started. All right. So I'm assuming you lived in one of those units of the two and rented the other one out? I had the intention of moving into it. Just things didn't work out that way. I was still living at home with my mom at the time. So it was kind of cool because I was supposed to move out, move into it.

But at the very last minute, I just couldn't see myself moving into Southside Jamaica, Queens. So I don't, I've never invested. I mean, I don't even know that much about New York City and the surrounding boroughs. Is that what we call them? Is that where all your stuff sat today? Is that what you're- Yeah, everything is in New York right now. You know, I dabbled for a bit.

I dabbled around with, you know, the Baltimore, upstate New York, Florida market. But then I just started to consolidate and just work on Brooklyn, Brooklyn at home for the most part. And why is that? I mean, I think it's smart to consolidate it like that, but why? Just a bang for my buck. I was lucky enough to get into real estate, like, very early. you know, and so a lot of these brownstones that I purchased for three or four hundred thousand dollars, like back in the late 90s or early 2000s, they're not worth like, you know, some of them between two and a half and four million dollars. It really doesn't make sense for me to go chase money out of state or chase money elsewhere when I could just work on maximizing every dollar I could get out of my current market.

Yeah. All right. Well, let's keep going on your story. So you bought this first property. You said then later you bought the building next door. Where'd you go from there? From there, I was still living at my mom's house. So after I moved out of my mom's house, I ended up buying another two-family house in Rosedale Queens, which was a much nicer neighborhood. And I rented one of the units to a family upstairs. And I ended up moving three of my frat brothers in, the other unit.

So this one house was, I was making like $2,500 on this house and living for free. So at that point, I never even heard of house hacking, but apparently that's what I was doing. Yeah, that's cool. Do you have any advice for people who are maybe in your shoes where you were back then saying, I want to get started, but I live in New York City. I live in L.A. I live in, you know, Baltimore or whatever, like kind of a more expensive market. You still recommend that?

Yeah, you know, because there's always opportunities, right? There's always deals. Like, just the other day, well, not just the other day. Last year, I ended up purchasing a property that was worth close to $4 million, and I paid $2 million for it. You know? And, yeah, you think that's a steal. The guy who sold this to me bought it for $800,000, you know, like a week before. Dang. Dang.

Yeah. So, you know, I thought I was getting over. But there's always deals to be had. So as long as you put in the work and, you know, looking for it, there's always something to be had. And also, you could always partner up, even if you don't have the money to buy something yourself in those markets. You can always partner up with people. and it's a better deal than trying to buy a little piece of something somewhere else. Like I always say, I'd rather have 50% of a million dollars than 100% of $100,000. Well, a lot of people struggle with the fact I think that they don't know how to get off the ground.

And really, that's the hardest part of any business is just getting some momentum. Like once you get to the point you're at now, Jude, you're getting opportunities to buy something for $2 million that's worth $4 million. And as people listen, I think there's frustration. Well, how do I meet that guy? Well, you don't start with that guy, right? got to get some momentum going. And I think one of the best things that I've heard in this podcast so far was you saying, I rented this out to my frat brothers. What you're really saying is I took the resources I had available and I made something. I looked at what was in the fridge and I made something

edible out of it. And out of that, I got enough energy that I could go to the store and I could get more ingredients and I can make better stuff and you slowly built it up. Can you give some advice for the people that are in that scrap mode that are trying to get that first deal put together that they don't have the credibility to bring in a partner yet, but they do have resources that maybe they're just not recognizing right now. Well, one of the most important things I think people need to do is like build relationships with everyone, you know, again, like I'm from Brooklyn, you know, the ungentrified part of Brooklyn where I've gotten leads from the neighborhood drug user about who was selling their house, you know, so everybody's an asset. So that's, that's one thing, right? And

And second thing that you need to do, you need to educate yourself in knowing how to get these deals. There are so many different outlets that people just don't do. You know, they don't make relationships with divorce attorneys. They don't make relationship with estate attorneys. They don't go down to the foreclosure office and stuff like that. They start to get frustrated very early on and then they lose steam. But just like anything else, you know, you never hit the home run the first time at that. You just got to keep going and going and going and going.

I think that's really wise. There's people that have a relationship with the mailman and don't realize that he knows which properties or she knows those properties are run down. There's people you're working out with at the gym that need a spotter and they don't know how to lift the weights and they run a hedge fund. Or maybe you don't go to that gym, but they have an influential position where they come across people that have these deals. And we never think about it because it's not something you heard somebody else say. You have anything you can add on that? I actually bought a property down the block from one. one of my properties that I didn't even know it was on the market from a lead that I got from the mailman. You know, he's like, hey, did you know that $198 is going on the market? I said, really? Yeah, you know, then he gave me to the wrong-winded story about the guys moving in Florida. He's taking his wife and this, that, the other. But all I heard was like $1.98's going on the market. And I was able to get that. I was basically able to steal that deal before it even got listed and this was just from a tip. This was just from a tip from the mailman.

One of the biggest deals I ever did came from a tip from my old boss at the job I got fired from. That's funny. Anybody and everybody could be a good source of leads. It's just training your mind to have that mindset of not like how can I use people. How can the people around me benefit me and how can I benefit them? Just having this open idea of like everybody's better off when we communicate what our needs are and what we are looking for.

and you never know what someone's going to do. You know, we do this thing out in Maui called the Maui Masterclass, and I bring out like 20 or 30 investors. Jude, I'd love to have you someday come out. But we just talk about like, this is, you know, this is what we're working on, this what we need. And I actually do this segment now every time where I have each person in the room go around and say, this is what I want right now.

Like, this is what I need? Not like I'm looking for, you know, leads, but like, specifically, what is it that you want that somebody in this room may be able to bring you? And it's amazing every time when people start to verbalize that. Like, well, actually, I'm looking for a CPA. Somebody's in the room, like, I got an amazing guy. And then somebody else's like, yeah, I'm looking for, you know,

somebody to help me raise money an apartment deal. And they're like, I'm the best apartment deal, raise their money in the world. I'm looking for somebody who can, you know, bring the whatever. Like, when you start putting it out there to the world, what you're looking for, people. A close mouth, they get fed.

That's good. You know, bottom line, close mouth, don't get fed. Like, if people don't know what you're doing, there's no way that they could help you. Like, I'm on IG. I have, never done, I've done, I've spent zero money on advertising. I don't do anything like that. Like 100% of my deals come from relationships, especially in the market like New York, where I can't

out hustle, I can't, excuse me, I can't out money the hedge funds. You know, for me to get the deal, I'm going to have to play my game, which is the relationship game. Yeah, that's really good. Well, let's go back to your story a little bit and catch up on the last couple decades. So, you know, late 90s, you get into this thing, you start doing some house hacking stuff. What comes next? Where'd your business go? Well, I was still working at Verizon. I was there for like five years after I started and I'm building property.

I'm buying and I'm buying and I'm buying. And what ends up happening is that my business, you know, starts to outperform my paycheck. So it's no longer priority. And, you know, one day I get the axe. You know, so I get the termination letter and I end up framing that letter. are still sitting in my office to this day, you know. And it was real cool, you know, because that's kind of like the kick that I needed in the rear

because sometimes, sometimes we get so scared. We get so scared of being out on our own that we're ready to fly, you know, but we're still in, you know, we still want the safety of the nest. Funny enough, I sent, I sent all the managers like bottles champagne, but when I got fired, and, you know, I thank this one for being patient. I thank that one for covering for me. I thank this one for for this. And the one who fired me and I said, hey, thank you for being the guy that you are.

Because if it wasn't for people like you, I'd probably be content working for the rest of my life. But you being the kind of guy that you are made me want to get to do better for myself. So first off, you're totally the relationship guy. You're sending bottles of champagne to your former employer and the different bosses that you had. That's a great lesson anyone can take out of this is you literally. took a negative thing and forced it to become positive with the right attitude and mindset. And the second thing, Brandon and I have been talking about this a lot. We have another podcast coming out where we talk about having no bad days. And you basically took what every man's

probably biggest fear is is not being good enough. I got fired for my job because they didn't think that I could cut it, which all of us live in fear of being exposed in that way all the time. And you forced that to become a positive thing. And you said, well, it's because I was too good for this opportunity that this happened. I'm going to go make something even bigger. And I wish that you could just put that in a pill and give it to people because so many people need to understand that perspective. And I just, this is great that you're sharing how you did that. It's scary stuff, but I was in Greece the other day in Santorini. There's a cliff that everybody was jumping off of, right? And I'm afraid of heights. Like, I get six feet off in the air and I start to, you know,

my stomach mounts up and I get a cold sweat and my heart starts to race. Right. And, So nonetheless, I climbed a cliff and I jump off, you know. And my boy's like, yo, you're scared of height. What are you doing? And I was just like, I'm more afraid of not knowing what it feels like to fly. And, you know, than I am of this discomfort, this temporary discomfort. Because I'm going to go home and I'm going to think about, hey, I wonder what it would have been like to jump off that cliff.

So I take that away. There's a movie out there called Onward. It's like a Disney movie about like trolls. and I don't know, dwarfs and whatever. But there's a scene in there where the two characters have to cross this ravine, basically, like this big, like this ravine. And it's an invisible bridge. And the one guy is like, well, I mean, how do I know it's there?

It's an invisible bridge. And he's like, oh, you know, it's fine. Just go. And he's like, I'm not going to go across this, you know, cliff, jump off this cliff and just hope that there's a bridge there. And he said, okay, fine, tie a rope to you. So they tie a rope to them. And he sets out, he steps a foot and he steps on the invisible bridge.

And then he steps a little bit further. And he's like, hey, I got this. And he's walking across. across this bridge and he knows that because he's got this, you know, rope on him, that if he falls, he's okay. Well, about halfway across this big ravine, the rope slips off of him and unties and just disappears, he doesn't realize it. So he keeps walking across this bridge. And he gets almost to the end. Then he realizes the rope is gone. He freaks out, but he makes it, he lands on the other end. Spoiler alert there. But then he says, and the two get across the bridge where they get across,

and he says, like, you know, I didn't have the rope. I need. I needed that rope. I needed that to get across. And his friend looks at him or his brother looks at him and said, did you though? And oftentimes that rope, right, is like our jobs. Like when I hear your story of like, we have this job that maybe we cling to for a long time because we feel like we need it because it is terrifying because the bridge to where we're going is invisible.

We cannot see it. So we feel like we need that. I'm not saying everybody needs to go and quit their job. But I just love that question is, did you? You know, the biggest thing I hear from people who are afraid to leave their jobs. You know, like I have fellow entrepreneurs that I work with and they make tons of money. And it's like, no, I need the insurance. You know, I need the insurance.

And I'm just like, you know, one deal could cover your insurance for a year. One deal could cover your insurance for a decade. So sometimes you just got to put it into perspective. One of the craziest things like I think about, especially when you bring up Disney movies, I'm thinking about Dumball, right? These little elephants, what they do, when they're little elephants, they tie them to stake. and they can't move with the stake on it, but then they become these big, behemoth monsters

that could easily, without flinching, like rip the steak out, but they don't do it because it's embedded in their brain that, oh, I have this shackle on me and it's hold me back. And most of the time it's just in your mind, you know? Yeah, that's a really good point. I always like that analogy, the elephant and what it can pull. So cool, man.

Well, let's get through the rest of your story a little bit. And so, you know, I like to talk to guys who have been in the industry for a long time. I want to see how you got through the recession. But first, I was told to ask you a question here. Our producer said, ask him about Vegas. What's Vegas? So I am a recovering. Well, you know what?

The truth is you never, once you're a gambler, you're always a gambler. I just don't do it anymore. I'm a recovering gambler. You know, I used to go hard body. Like the first two properties that I own, I actually had to sell them to cover gambling debt. and I was sharing with Eric about how bad it was that one time when I was on my way, when I was on my way to way home, I got stuck in traffic,

and I was right in front of the airport. And as a gambler, when you're stuck in traffic for like half an hour, and the airport is right there, the first thing that comes to your mind is, I might as well go to Vegas, right? That's common sense. Yeah, it's just like I could sit in traffic for like another half hour, I could pull off here and jump on the plane and go to Vegas. That makes sense.

So one day, that's exactly what happened. I ended up in Vegas. And I ended up sitting at a black jab table for 30 hours straight. There might be a world record or something for that because, like, literally, like, after it was all set and done, I was just like, what? It's another day? And it's like six hours into, like, another day that I was really there for 30 hours. and it's so crazy because, you know, at one point I was like up 100 grand, down 80 grand, back up 100 grand. And after it was all said and done, I was down $150,000.

And this was in 2004. You know, I was not in a position to do that. You know, I was actually playing with Sam Cassell. I think he was one of the Houston Rockets back then. And, you know, so he's playing $5,000. a hand. So I'm playing $5,000 a hand. Why not? Right? But I think that's like one of the best things that ever happened to me because I felt so defeated and lost. As soon as I walked out of the casino that day, I walked straight into the tattoo parlor and I got this tattoo on my hand that says never again.

You know? So it's the only tattoo I have. It's on my hand. And it's like a testament and a reminder that I'm never going to put myself in that position. So, like, I'm of strong belief that you can lie to anybody in the world, but you can't lie to yourself, right? So, like, I'd be lying to myself if I have a tattoo on my hand and with the same hand, I'm saying, or hit me. Or if I have a tattoo on my hand and I'm driving and I'm looking at this thing that says, never again, you know? And so many times this tattoo has saved me because it was a reminder. Like, when I, when I'm slipping, it just reminded me that, hey, Jude, you got to find your way back. Yeah, so that's that's Vegas. That's gambling. You know, I still, I still gamble, you know, because the real estate game is a gambling itself, you know, but it's a little bit more controlled.

That is, that it is. And unlike, unlike gambling, where gambling, the house always has the edge, right? Like, overtime, yeah, you can win, but overtime, even if it's only 51% odds, like that the house has, the house will always overtime win. But in real estate, I feel like the investor has the odds. Occasionally the house wins. Occasionally you do a bad deal. But if you hold on long enough, you play long enough, almost everybody wins who's in real estate. If you can hang on long enough. So except for times of like, well, I mean, like where we struggle is things like the recession. That's why don't I go next. I love asking guys who have been in this business forever.

Did you see it coming? How did you fare during the 2007, you know, crash? I lost everything, you know, everything. No, let me, let me rephrase that. I didn't lose everything. I had everything in foreclosure. When I started making money, I went down and I bought this big, 4,000 square foot house with a pool and all that other stuff.

And all these toys and stuff like that. So all those things had to go. I went from the Mercedes convertible back to the Honda, things like that, tighten my belt. And I really started looking outside the box, right? Started thinking differently. I started looking at the things that I had and how could I make money? What did I have?

Right. And one of the biggest things that saved me during that, time is I bought this, no, excuse me, the rents in Manhattan plummeted during the recession. So I was able to rent this huge, like $4,000 square foot loft, like $5,000 a month. Right. And I figured that regardless, regardless of, if it's a recession or not, everybody's still going to celebrate their birthday, you know? Everybody's going to still have that first birthday party, that engagement party.

and all those other things. So I was able to rent that for like $5,000 a month. And then I was renting this thing out for like $3,000 a night. So that's one of the things that I did. And then what I started doing was Airbnb, my house. You know, my big house with the pool and all that other stuff. It wasn't even Airbnb back then. It was like VRBO and Home Away and stuff like that.

And I even had a website going. And so that was how I survived. You know, just don't everything that I had to do. I even started Indian hair company at that time. Yeah, I ended up flying to India and getting a hair connect. And that's another story. But all of these things I did from like 2008 to, I'd say, 2013, while I was modifying, while I was making deals with banks and all that other stuff.

of trying to make it through the storm. You know, one of the things that I got very lucky that I didn't do, and I literally missed an appointment, which saved me, because someone wanted to buy my deeds, and they were going to give me like $200,000 for all my deeds, and I missed the appointment, and I ended up speaking to somebody, and they told me that I was about to get ripped off.

For decades, real estate has been a cornerstone of the world's largest portfolios. But it's also historically been sort of complex, time-consuming, and expensive. But imagine if real estate investing was suddenly easy, all the benefits of owning real, tangible assets without the complexity and expense. That's the power of the Fundrise flagship fund. Now you can invest in a $1.1 billion portfolio of real estate, starting with as little as $10. The portfolio features 4,700 single-family rental homes spread across the booming Sunbelt. They also have 3.3 million square feet of highly sought after industrial facilities, thanks to the e-commerce wave. The flagship fund is one of the largest of its kind. It's well

diversified, and it's managed by a team of professionals. And it's now available to you. Visit fundrise.com slash BP Market to explore the fund's full portfolio, check out historical returns, and start investing in just minutes. Carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses of the Fundrise flagship fund before investing. This and other information can be found in the fund's prospectus at fundrise.com slash flagship. This is a paid advertisement. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday.

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period of time that maybe changed your business, changed how you think, changed how you operate today. What would you say? Like what's changed in you because of this? Well, a couple of things. One, don't ever get caught up in the moment as far as always believing that good times last forever. The same way tough times don't last forever. Neither is good times. So you have to kind of be even killed. Secondly, is you have to really manage your relationships because like, It was my friends and my attorneys and, like, people that I did business with, like, when times were good, that I was good to. And they were able to help and guide me through this tough period. And as David said before, like, you always have to look in the refrigerator and see what you can make, you could eat.

Like, so I couldn't flip properties anymore because of the climate, but I could still Airbnb, people still come to New York. the Empire State building and the Statue of Liberty is not going anywhere. You know, people are still going to keep coming in New York. People are still going to keep having our misfits. They're always going to need a place to hold these things. So just look to see what's there. Yeah, that's such a great attitude to have, yeah, because there's always a way to figure it out,

almost always a way to figure something out. If you have that attitude of not, oh, this all sucks, the world's falling apart. But, okay, things are struggling right now. What is working? What can I do? So were you flipping before this? Was that where you were making all your money?

as flipping houses as well? I have my core properties that I own, right? I have about eight roundstones that I own that are rented all the time. And what I do is the properties that I flip, I use that money. Well, let me say one more thing. Some of the properties that I purchase are not cash pro positive, but there's like a ton of equity in them. Right. So I might buy a property for a million five that's worth 2.5, but the rent doesn't cover the million five mortgage. Right? So what I'll do is I'll acquire that property. Then I will take equity out of it, buy a property to flip, make some money, and pay down that mortgage.

Smart. You know, you said something earlier, Jude, that I kind of wanted to allude to. And you had admitted, which I think is very brave, that you had a gambling problem. And you even said, like, I'm probably always going to have that. I think that's a wise perspective to take when we tell ourselves that we've defeated a dragon as if it will never come back. You set yourself up to get eaten. And you got me thinking about just the gambling industry as a whole. If you really think about it, the house is set to win, but the house can lose too.

There are moments where a person goes in there and crushes it and the house loses. And so gambling is really like a, there's a yin and a yang to it. There's going to be the side we call the house that has the advantages, but both sides are gambling. And real estate investing, when you mentioned kind of became how you scratch that itch. But that's the same thing. Like, as the owner of the property, we're the house. Okay. We have the advantages in our favor, but that doesn't mean that we can't lose.

Just like when you saw the market turn around on you, you weren't able to make it work. That's like when a casino has a person come in. They can count cards or does great and takes all their money. They have to have enough in reserves to weather that storm of a temporary loss. And casinos also stay in business because they make money in other ways, right? They sell food. They sell drinks. They sell hotel rooms.

They have multiple ways that they can make their business operate, even if the gambling aspect of it goes against them. And what you really did was you said, I'm going to move from the gambler to the casino owner. I'm going to own the real estate. And when it went bad, I will find different ways to make money with this asset class, which is what every great business owner does. And I don't think I've ever looked at real estate investing that same way because a lot of people see the risk. And they say, I don't want to do it.

It's like gambling. What if my property doesn't go up? What if my tenant trashes it? They bring up the things that could go wrong. But by being a tenant your whole life and paying your rent to someone else, it means you're never in the position of being in the house. You're always at the disadvantage trying to make money in other ways. Does that resonate with you or do you think that that's a bad example? No, no.

And you have to play the hand at your deal. and you have to play it the best way you can. But let's go back with the gambler talk, you know, you get a 13 or 14 or 15. You could still win with that. But you have to be smart and you have to think outside the box and you also have to have a plan. And one thing you cannot do is just have a defeatist attitude.

You know, because once you have a defeatist attitude, you're defeated. Like, I will not lose, you know. At the end of the day, I may lose this hand, I may lose this round, I may lose this battle, but at the end of the day, every day when the sun comes up, the world reset and I get a second chance until the day that I die. And for my last day, as long as I had more good days, more wins than losses, I won the game. If I start the day carrying over yesterday's losses or yesterday's hardships, I'm screwed. I'm done.

Today is already a loss. Man, that's such a good way of looking at it. and something I think a lot of people struggle with. So I want to ask you kind of, maybe it's a bit of a sensitive topic for the world today, but I'll say like, you know, me being the, I was just bluntly say, right, like the white guy, like it's easier for me, I feel like, or at least that's the way, I mean, I would say it's easier for me, the privilege that I've had. So I'm wondering in your world, I mean, I've never lived in inner city or even near one.

I've never been in New York, I've been in New York, but I've never invested there. what do you see from the people that you are in your community, people of color or just people that are just in the inner city or maybe in a more heavily poverty area? How are they getting out? How can, how do you help them get out? And what's what do you see there? Well, you know, prior to this new wave of education, you know, of financial literacy, you know, like you guys are the rock stars now, right? Everybody wants the information of how to become wealthy and generational wealth and financially free and all that of the stuff. But where I came from, how I grew up, the only people who got out were the people who resorted to crime, people with a good

jump shot, or the people, you know, who was singing, dance, or rap, or whatever it was. Those were your only options. And one of my passions, you know, like this Brooklyn Bank, this is a nonprofit that I started. One of the things that's so super, super important to me, is like spreading the word of that you have other options. You know, there's so many other ways, especially like real estate being, real estate being one of them. And as David said, it's not guaranteed. It's not guaranteed that you will become wealthy in real estate. But the odds are really in your favor because now you're the house.

You know, you have the asset that appreciates. You have the asset that cash flows and stuff like that. So it's super duper important. that you put the fear aside and you educate yourself, whether you take a course, whether you go to YouTube University, whether you go to, you know, to your platform, you know, other platforms, and align yourself with people, align yourself with people who can mentor, or mentor you from afar, you know, like watch people, ask questions and stuff like that,

because it's very possible. And when people say the word ghetto, they think of buildings and tenements. right but um the the little definition of the word is um a lack of hope where the situation is hopeless right and it's super important that people have hope which is what i try to do to show them like hey i'm from the hood just like you i can't rap you know my jump shot is um not NBA worthy and i'm not about you know i'm not built for life of crime or do i have any desire to do that So what was my option? So I had the other options.

You know, if I wanted to compete with the luminaries that were up during the time that I was coming up, when I first started in the game, this was like 97 and this was New York City with the height of the bad boy era. With Puff Daddy and all these guys, every time you go out, they'd be buying out the bar and all the girls would be flogging to them and stuff like that. and you could eat, you know, like while they're having their champagne, you could either, you know, sit on the sideline, sit on the sideline and have your rumming Coke or your hyniquet or whatever you're doing. Or you could find a way, your own path of how you could, how you could garner your own personal measurement of success. Yeah, that's cool, man. I mean, yeah, it's awesome what you're doing. Can you explain the Brooklyn Bank a little more? What's the Brooklyn Bank do?

All right. The Brooklyn Bank, we are a nonprofit organization, 511C3 organization with the mission of providing financial literacy, wealth building skilled, and financial and economic empowerment to people of color. Like what we do is we have classes on credit, real estate, mortgages, crypto, all the things that people are not aware. Well, all the people who are in this neighborhood are typically not aware of, of how to make money. We teach them about the mindset, what kind of mindset that they need to have?

We teach them about sacrifice. And one of the biggest things we have to teach, especially the kids, is the importance of delayed gratification. It's the same thing. It's just like, would you rather have a pair of Jordans today, or do you want to buy some Nike style? that could buy you the Jordans tomorrow and keep, keep buying you Jordans. It's like everybody wants abs, but they want pie today. That's a story of my life. Yeah, it's just like, yeah, I want the abs.

But, you know what I'm saying? For me to have the abs six weeks from now means that I can't have the pie for the next six weeks. But the pie looks so good. But that's when you have to ask yourself, what's more important to you? the app, the Jordans or the stop. That's amazing. How do you guys fund like the organization? Is it donation based or what do you do to fund the you based?

Yeah, it's basically me based as or right now. I'm in the process of learned, you know, this is a whole new thing for me. So, but for the last couple years, it's basically been, been me writing those big checks every year, you know, but it's okay because it's fulfilling. What would you tell somebody who feels? like what you're describing doesn't work for me. I don't think that way. The only way I can get ahead is with these methods.

Maybe they don't have enough role models around them where they've seen somebody do that where they would actually trust it, right? They hear what we're saying. Maybe in a sense there's some logical connection they can make, but emotionally, it just feels like, yeah, that's for those people. That's not for me. Well, I think what needs to happen is more people like myself. need to be prevalent in their lives to let them to let them see like hey I'm from the hood just

like yourself and I and for me to take down take the time and break things down to them of how like it's a structure you know like it works for everyone and all you have to do is put the work in and follow the plan you know because at the end of the day it's super important that you believe right and one of the one of the things that that I mentioned before the the the importance of delayed gratification it but it's showing that hey if you if you if you give this up if you put a little if you put a little effort into this thing and follow this plan all you need to do is raise X amount of dollars and then once you get X amount of dollars you could put a percentage down you could put you could put a down payment down and this thing is going to grow exponentially it's

going to grow 1% 2% every year and then you want to get cash back from it and and i and i was telling like whatever whatever you're looking to do if if you're thinking that being an entertainer is your way what are you know what are the percentages what are the odds of you becoming a successful entertainer right if you're thinking that being you know making it to the league is your thing you know what are the odds it's a um one in a couple hundred thousand of people make it to basketball players make it into into the NBA you know well there's nothing that stops you from doing both if someone really has their dream set they want to be a dancer they want to be a singer they want to be in the NBA nothing stops you from having a job while you pursue that and

buying real estate even as investors we get into that is the deal i want that is the house i want and if you can't make it work you're crushed and you just don't go after it as opposed to maybe someone with jude's mindset who says all right i got a pair of sevens this isn't great but how do I play that hand? What can I learn from the way I played it? And you sort of take what the defense gives you. I think that's a really successful or a piece of successful people's game. They get stuck behind us.

We get locked into that one way. Would you agree that's similar to what you've seen? No, definitely. Definitely. Like, as I said, I worked my job. I worked my job for years until I was able to fly on my own. But what I was specifically trying to talk about before was, like the dreamers, you know, like the, and I'm not killing somebody's dream, but sometimes,

sometimes, like myself, I had to come to the realization that I'm 5'9, I'm not going to NBA, so I had to find, I had to find something else to do, you know, and by no means I'm I'm ever trying to, you know, stomp on somebody's dream because there's always, there's always that one percent and there's always that, that story that they're going to make Disney movies about, but it's always, but you could do both. You could be financially literate. You could invest in real estate property. You can buy multi-family, multi-unit properties and slowly build your wealth while you're pursuing your dreams.

You know, one of my things that I love about Arnold Schwarzenegger is that he never, he waited until he got a lead role. And like, you know, he was never in commercials. he was never like in a B rolls or stuff like that. He waited until he got a lead role. And the way he was able to do that was because he had a he had a real estate and he had a construction company going in and all these other things that he used to generate income so he could wait for for that opportunity. And another thing, people that have been successful in the way that we all see, the rappers, the athletes, a lot of people don't realize they're playing the same game that Jude and me and Brandon are. Shaquille O'Neal owns a lot of real estate.

Marshawn Lynch never spent a dime of his entire paychecks from his team. He lived off of his endorsements. Jay-Z is a wildly intelligent businessman that can create revenue streams out of things other people don't see. David, he's not a businessman. He's a businessman. You guys heard the one rap line brand of those. That's the only rap line I know right there. He goes back to it all the time, Jude.

I'm telling you, like, he's that. That's his Steve Kerr three. point shot. So one thing he knows. It's like my dance move, right? I got like one dance move on the, on the floor. Anyway. But it's a good one, man. I mean, that's okay. You can make a career out of that one move if you use it right. Yeah, he's doing the dice throwing again. Yes. They're using the same principles we talk about. It just isn't as visible, right? They're not going to talk about it in the music video. You're not going to see Shaquille O'Neal talking about his real estate stuff. He's there to play basketball. So I think a lot of people that admire them and want their career, don't

understand that, Jude, what you're talking about, they're incorporating that into their overall game as well. So it shouldn't be this or that. There's no reason you can't have both. No, definitely. Man, all right. So one thing we've never done before here on the show, and I want to do right now, I didn't even ask you about this, Hedju, so you tell me if this is a terrible idea, but I'd love to find a way to, like, give back to the Brooklyn Bank a little bit. So is that cool? Are you taking donations, I'm assuming? Oh, actually, tonight we are actually raising money for Haiti. We have a benefit that we're doing here at the Brooklyn Bank tonight, and we're sending people on the ground, which supplies to Haiti.

So it's cool. Well, let me do this. So first of all, I want to just like, I'm not trying to say, hey, pat myself in the back, trying to help you out. What I want to do is get the bigger pockets audience to help out as well. So I'll throw this out there. I'll toss in five grand right now for what you're doing tonight for the Haiti thing.

Now, this show comes out a little bit later. So what's Austin, I'll attest the first 5K. But what I want to do is, you know, out here in Hawaii, I've got an extra unit that family and friends come out. And so I'll just say that if anybody's interested in, coming out to Maui for a week. I mean, you pay for your own flight, people, but you want to come out and hang out and hang out and hang out to dinner, do real estate if David's in town, he comes to. Anybody who donates that 5K as well towards the Brooklyn Bank, I'll, you know,

open up my home for you, or at least my extra unit or my vacation rental here and let you stay for a week and all that. So if anybody's interested in that, just go to Matt. Just email Matt, who's my assistant, one of my assistants, Matt at ODCfund.com. And anybody with those in five grand, and come out and hang out with me for a week of mentorship and learning and stuff. So hope I'll help you out. Greatly appreciate that, man. It's terrible what's happening in Haiti, in Afghanistan, and just the world in general, in the hood, you know, in the hood right outside my door.

And I think it's kind of like my personal responsibility. Now, excuse me, it's our personal responsibility to give back, you know, and whether it's through charity, whether it's through mentorship, it's we are all responsible for putting our hand behind us and grabbing the next person and helping to get to where we are. Yeah, I'll match. I was actually going to text Brandon and ask him if he wanted to do a dual thing. And that's exactly what I was thinking.

So I'll have my new loan company, the one brokerage, donate just the same for my portion of the profits there into what you're doing. What I think about is how much further $5,000 goes in Haiti than it does here, right? And if people realize that, like $5,000 is, you know, one month of comfortable living for somebody here versus life changing for, several people in a place like that, it becomes the better investment when we're all investors, right? Like your money goes a lot further in a situation like that than it does in some places in America. You know, I said earlier, I was in Santorini and Mekonos earlier this week. And I was

coming out of a club in Mekonos and I heard this kid say, my dad's going to kill me. I can't believe I blew 18 grand in here. And I was just like, first of all, how do you have access to that if you're not working for it, right? And then I initially just started thinking about, like, what that means in certain parts of the world, certain parts of the city, certain parts of this country, we should never lose sight. And that's one of the best things I think that this whole real estate thing has done for me is giving me the disposable income to change hundreds of lives. And, you know, last Thanksgiving, we gave away 1,100 turkeys.

Like, the line literally wrapped around the corner and stuff like that. even though it's not in line with our mission, but it's just like you can't think about building wealth if you're hungry. It's like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You know, there are certain things. It has to go in order. You got to fill your belly before you can fill your mind. That's a great point. In fact, Brandon and I were just talking about some of the problems that are almost artificially created because America has so much wealth. And we're like, well, I got no like real, rare problems to solve or real adversity to overcome. I've already made it. So we start making really big deals out of small things. things, right? Like the person who cleans my house missed this spot under the sink and it can ruin your whole day. And the best recipe to get out of that is to go look at somebody in Haiti, right? Go look at somebody in right now the Middle East. God bless what's happening over there. And not only is it just good for them, but it's good for you, right? You stop worrying about the person who didn't detail your

car correctly and letting that ruin your whole day. It doesn't even pop into your head. And it's sort of a way that I found to play a game where I can get myself out of the pyramid at the top of the pyramid of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And I get myself down in the middle or the bottom by putting myself into other people's situation and seeing how I can help. And then I get the feeling of progress from helping them that I used to have when I was at the bottom trying to fight my way up to the top. And that is like an addicting feeling as you see yourself making that progress. You know, one of the little tricks that I play with myself, especially like in relationships when you're interacting with people, like is this.

going to matter a week from now, a month from now, or a year from now. 99 out 100 times, no, it doesn't. It doesn't matter that your fries were cold, you know, because at the end of the day, someone didn't get fried at all. Somebody can't have fries because they're not even readily available to them. That's a great point, right? And it's just we were talking to someone else recently about how we just assume your car is always going to start.

When it doesn't start, it ruins your day. What if you went in every day wondering if my car was going to start? When it did start, you're like, oh, this is awesome. Great starts of my day, right? And how you kind of build on that. And you got to be able to play those games with your own mind. Because there's so many things in the world that will tell you you're a victim. It's not fair.

This person didn't detail your car great. Everything's terrible for you. And then you end up not happy about the success you're having. One thing I wanted to ask, we didn't get into, Jude, from a practical perspective, when you're looking for real estate, are you looking for specific floor plans? Are you looking for neighborhoods? Or are you basically just putting the word out there? And if the deal makes sense, you chase it on its own merit.

Well, first, I let everybody know that whenever there's a deal, send it my way. Now, what I do is, like, when people do send it my way, if it doesn't fit my criteria, I typically just pass it off to somebody that will take it. Sometimes I do it as, hey, here you go, buddy, just have fun with this. Or sometimes I do it as a wholesale situation or whatever. Right. But like right now, the way that I'm working, I only buy properties within my two mile radius if I'm going to keep it.

And five mile radius if I plan to flip it. And to a certain criteria that I look for is that first of all, like any deal that I'm going to do, it has to have at least my seven figure upside. What I love about knowing your criteria, it makes it very easy to know if you should take action or not. So every professional basketball player that used that analogy, they know what their shots are and what they're not going to take, right? Shaquille O'Neal's not getting the ball in the three-point line and trying to figure out, should I take this shot or should I not take this shot? That causes a lot of anxiety and problems for the newer investors. I've gotten to know Sean Livingston used to play for

the Warriors. She's a fan of the podcast. We'd become friends. Actually went running a couple times. And Sean was so good at basketball because he knew this is what I do, this is what I don't do. And what he did was something other people couldn't do. He was a very tall point guard that could get a shot off like a mid-range game that was almost impossible to stop. But it gave Sean a lot of clarity and made him successful that he knew I'm not going to take certain shots from this perspective. Like, I'm not going to be a three-point shooter. I'm not going to be hitting runners like what Stefan Curry shoots. And so he had a very high percentage the entire time he played and he could he could come up big for them by putting himself in the right spot on the court. And that's exactly what you're

describing, Jude, with your real estate. I'm in this two-mile radius. I want to property looks like this. I want this much equity. If I have it, I'll move. If I don't, I won't. And it simplifies everything. That's just for the people that are listening that are having a hard time getting going, I would say, Brandon, you probably agree. Most people are trying to analyze way too many opportunities that do not make sense for their situation or where their games at. Would you agree? Yeah. I think there's just like the more you niche down, the better you can make decisions, the better you can be able to become an expert, the better, the faster you can move. just benefit, benefit, benefit, benefit.

So, yeah, all day long. One of the things that I learned last year with COVID, I got stuck in the middle of a multimillion dollar renovation. And as I said, like my criteria was that I need, at the end of the day, I need a seven-figure upside. And, you know, every month while COVID was going on and we couldn't work and stuff like that, the hard money lenders still have to get paid every month. But if we were working or not, whether we were making private,

or not. And if I didn't have that cushion and if I didn't, if I didn't have that criteria or if it was, you know, what ended up happening is instead of me making X, I just ended up making a little bit less, well, a lot less, but it still turned up to be profitable. And I'd rather, I would rather wait for those grand slam home runs than base hits, you know, because that's just what works for me. Hey, when you, when you mentioned that, like the seven figure upside, are you talking about specifically like you're going to buy a rental that has that much equity you can build in it over time, or are you talking about flipping? You're only going to do a flip that makes seven figures. Like what are you, what's the seven figure upside?

A seven figure upside is when I, I purchased a property like the one I was telling you about for the two million and I put 700 into it. And then when it's done, it's worth four point five that I could eat, that I could flip, that I could sell or whatever, but that's the market rate. You know, that's the RV. Those things don't come around every day. You know, so if I do one a year, I'm happy. Yeah, you're in a good position where, I mean, since we're using the gambling

analogies, you're playing poker and you're not on the blind and you just see what cards come your way and you only play the strong hands, right? Like it's one of the advantages to getting ahead in poker. When you're sitting there with the big stack, you can be a lot more picky about which hands you play. You can put the odds in your favor, makes wins that are in the future, more likely because of wins that you had in the past, right? When you're the short stack and you're just living day to day, sometimes you, you

You got to play a hand that isn't in your favor to play. So that's one of the ways that I've found that when you make good decisions in the beginning, like you did, Jude, and you delayed gratification, you put yourself in a position where you can only chase after seven-figure deal. Like you said with Arnold Schwarzenegger, he doesn't have to go take scraps and ruin his value to the market because he took a secondary role. He can wait for the lead role. Conan.

All right, Jude, that's fantastic advice. I appreciate you sharing that. When it comes to your own portfolio, would you mind sharing with me the details about your favorite deal? My favorite deal. Well, the favorite, my, I'm going to share, I told you, I went through the recession and all that other stuff. And my favorite deal is a deal that I did back in 2013. I had gotten a heads up from one of my old employers that there was a house in bedside that was about to be foreclosed on in a couple of weeks. And he just, he knew the neighbor and the neighbor was in.

in Jamaica, stuff like that. And I looked up the house, and I wanted in. And I found out that I found where the neighbor was that was in Jamaica, but they didn't have a phone. So I had to D.HL them, I had to DHL them a cell phone and make arrangements to actually go to Jamaica to talk to them. So I jumped on a plane, went to Jamaica. You know, we were able to work out an agreement.

And what I ended up doing was reinstating the loans, reinstating the loans that she already had. So I didn't have to come up with new financing. Coming back, had to beg, borrow and steal. Well, I didn't steal, but I had to pay and borrow to get the capital to raise the capital to actually do the renovation. And after all that was said and done, I was about $400,000 into this property. and I ended up selling it for 1.7. And that was the jumpstart that I needed to get me back into the real estate game because before that, you know, I was just scrambling with the event space

and the air company and the Airbnbs and stuff like that. Just going to trying to survive. But, you know, with that one, from that one deal, I got my foot back in the game and was able to start doing bigger deals again and change my life. That one deal got me to where I am today. That was your Conan the Barbarian moment. Yeah.

You know, just a random pocket dial because my phone actually hit my old employer up by accident and we started talking. That's how it all happened. So what's meant to be will always be. That's right. And when you make the right move and you do the right thing, the universe tends to reward that. You know, one of the most misunderstood verses that I, that I'm aware of is the one that says to he who has more will be given. and to he who does not have even what he has will be taken away. And what it's really getting down to is that when you are the person that makes the most

out of the opportunity you're given, more opportunities are going to come your way. And when you're someone who squanders the opportunities that you have, even less opportunities are going to come your way. And I think that's what's so cool about that story. That's the universe. The universe is powerful. And I don't want to even get back to the whole charity thing again. But that's why you have to put that positive energy back into the universe and make the best

out of every situation because woe was me just doesn't cut it. That's exactly right. And when you're the person who's providing opportunity, opportunities are going to come, right? Like the universe is going to reward the person who's doing good things because that money goes to you. Some of it's going to go to Haiti. You're going to teach other people how to do it out of that one deal.

Millions and millions of dollars of productivity will be created by the people that you shared it with. It's going to make a better world that we live in for all those different people. And, you know, Brian and I talk about that. It's really hard to make a direct connection between doing the right thing and your own personal success. There's an element of faith you kind of got to have because you don't always see it. But man, I can't remember the last time we talked to a person that was really successful that didn't have some component of their game being what you just said. Yeah. You know, it's so it was

written, you know, at the end of the day, as long as you have that code, you know, like one of the small things that I do is if a realtor brings me a deal, once I fix it, I always give it back to their realtor to sell. All right? And so what does that do? That entices the realtor to, you know, whenever there's a good deal and they know that Jews going to do the right thing by me, not, oh, thank you. Hit your commission.

I'll beat it. But they'll get to, you'll get to touch that house twice. It incentivizes people to do right by me because they know that I do right by them. And then if you contrast that with the person who says, I'm going to beat the realtor up on their commission. and I'm going to save every single dime that I can. That is the opposite of incentive. It tells that realtor, I need to take this deal to somebody else.

Super important. You know, like, you can't beat the system, you know. Like, the universe is way too powerful. And you just have to acknowledge that we are all connected and we are all related. And it's like it's only business is if everybody's eating and profiting. One of the mindsets I kind of get from where I grew up with is like you always teach, take care of the people around you because if if you're the only one eating and getting fat you become food but if you if you if you make sure that you take care of everybody around them you know you're

no longer the dinner you're the person that provides dinner well it's you can it's the works in sports too you have one player that does that gets all the shots and scores all the points on a really bad team and it's going to make it worse for everybody eventually that's the contract that the team's going to have to offload if they want to be good because you need a lot of people to make a business You need a lot of people to make a good team. You know, the last question I want to ask you, Jude, you mentioned that Arnold Schwarzenegger is one of the maybe heroes or people you look up to. I see you have notorious BIG on the wall behind you.

You mentioned you have Jay-Z up there too. Who are some of your other heroes or people that you admire and what about them is it that you admire? You know, funny enough, I would say that, of course, Jay-Z is one of my big heroes for his ability to come out of Marsi projects and take all of his people with him, you know, Like he's still running with the same people that he that was around him. The same thing with LeBron James, whereas he still has his core group.

And he not only took them with him, but he made them successful. He made them better. He made them better. He enriched their lives. He not only takes care of them, but he also takes, he has schools. And he's an all-round good guy. And it kind of pains me because I used to be, you know, a LeBron James. James Hater because of the, I'm taking my talents to Miami.

I'm taking my talents to South Beach Line. And I kind of hated on him for that. But I had to get over it because of all the positive things that he's doing, you know, for his community, for his people. He's, you know, he stands up. He stands up and he's vocal. He's very vocal about injustice in this country. He puts his money where his mouth is.

He articulates himself very well. He's a shrewd businessman, you know, he's about to, you know, about to be a billionaire while he's still playing in the league. So I would put LJ as my guy. All right, awesome, man. Well, this was phenomenal. I love listening to your story, what you're doing, both in terms of your real estate and how you're giving back to the community.

Yeah, and like I said earlier, I've definitely, you know, if anybody's interested, email Matt at ODCfund.com. If you want to come hang out with me in Hawaii and do some good in the world. But before we get out of here, we do out and move to our last segment of the show, and that is our Famous for. This is the part of the show. We ask the same four questions

to every guest every week. So we're going to throw them at you right now. Number one, Jude, do you have a favorite, either current or all-time favorite real estate-related book? My current favorite book from the last couple of months

is flipping keys by Caesar. Peanut. Yeah, I like his story. You know, he was immigrant parents, came up very hard, made bad decisions,

learned from them realized that he was just using his talents in the wrong way and he's built a phenomenal business going forward. So that would be my current favorite real estate book. What about your favorite business book? You know, it's funny you should mention about my favorite business book because I'm always arguing with people and they're telling, when they ask me to recommend a business book and I give them this book, they're telling me it's not a business book, but it's the alchemist. you know and paolo cola and um like there's so many lessons in that book about the power of the universe doing the right thing working hard um taking taking chances to me that's a business book

so that is my favorite business book that's great man that is a great book great book for anyone who wants to catch the interview we did with dj envy and caesar that is podcast 455 and uh there's a very funny story about Naz actually in the very beginning of that episode that I highly encourage anybody familiar with those names to go listen to. That was maybe one of the hardest times that I've laughed on any of the podcast we ever did, especially seeing Brandon squirm at the entire side of it. I do now. I do now. Yeah, you know now. That's right. Next question, what are some of your hobbies? Well, when I'm spending most of my time when I'm not working is the broken bank, you know, but other than that, I'm a marathoner. You know, I have about four

marathons under my belt. I currently have like a labial tear in my hip, so I've been swimming and doing a lot of strength training trying to get myself back, but that's what I like to do, you know, get up in the morning, do some miles, get my thoughts together. That's me, Jude the Runner. Jude the Runner. Awesome, man. All right. Last question for me. If you had to narrow it down and really point out one or two traits, what separates successful real estate investors from those who give up, fail, or never get started? One of the things I think that makes the winners in this game is the winners that they are is their ability to see trends before they have to get started, right? There's a Wayne Gritsky's quote about how did you always get the ball? I mean, how'd you always

get the puck? And he's like, yeah, I started skating towards it before it got there. Right? So, So like if you have the ability to take a look and see what the possibilities are and you, and you work towards that, you're always going to win. And there's the people who have a very narrow view and just like, you know, just can only see, like, right in what is right in front of them. Those are people who fail and don't do so well in this business and just pretty much in life in general. Yeah, yeah.

And that goes back to what we said earlier where there's an element of faith when Wayne Gretzky is getting to where he believes the puck is going to be. It's not there right now. You don't get the immediate gratification of, if I do this, I'll get that right away. And sometimes the puck doesn't come to you, but that's still the right move as you go to where it's going to be. And that's something that Brandon has been speaking into my life a lot more lately is to have that faith and to take that step and trust that things are going to meet you there.

So thanks for sharing that story. That benefited me. Yeah. And that's the same thing with Dennis Rodman. You know, I get the rebound by going where the ball is going to be. Just know that you're not going to die, you know, just have a little faith. Well, that comes up a lot in today's current conversation with real estate because we don't know where the market's going, right? You have to, in a sense, it's a gamble. But really what I realized

the other day when I was talking to someone to go button and says, it's a gamble either way. If you think the market's going to crash and you don't buy your gambling, and if you think the market's going to go up and you buy your gambling, there is no way to avoid the fact that no matter what decision you take, it's a gamble. If I think the ball's coming off the rim to the right, that's a gamble. It might go to the left. So, rather than just trying to avoid anything that isn't sure, you just have to be comfortable with the fact that you're going to play the odds and you're going to make the right move. And over time those decisions will accumulate into wins.

But it's no guarantee on every time you make the decision that's going to happen. And I think that's what I love about your mindset, Jude, is it's just make the right play every time. Not every shot goes in. Not every rebound comes your way. Sometimes you end up fouling the guy. But if you make the right play enough times in a row, it turns into a win. And that's all that we've done when it comes to our personal finances, our business,

is in real estate. One of the things that I always tell people when they're asking me to take my crystal ball out and tell them what's going to happen tomorrow. I tell them what you need to do is to make the best decision based on the information that you have today. You know, like you can't make this. You can't make business decisions with maybe or if thens and stuff like that. Go go with what you know to be true and, of course you hedge a little bit on sometimes you gamble a little bit. But, you know, you can't have analysis paralysis that just keeps you frozen, you know, in a holding pattern while you become 100% sure what's going to happen tomorrow. Because once that happens to once you get to tomorrow and then you got that fact,

then there's another unknown right from a week from now. So you're never all knowing. You know, you never become almighty. That's so true. Yeah. I actually heard LeBron James say one time. He was being criticized for not taking a shot at the end of the game. And it's always these armchair quarterbacks that come out like the Skip Bayless.

of the world that want to say, hey, you didn't take the shot and that's a bad thing about him. And they asked him and LeBron James said, well, I made the right basketball play. I was double-teamed. He was wide open. He's a good shooter. I passed it to him. He missed the shot, but I'm okay with that. I can't control.

What do you say is I can control whether the guy makes it or not. What I can control is the play that I made in that moment. And many times, like that worked out, Michael Jordan passed the ball to, was it John Paxon, right? And Steve Kerr also, they both hit really big shots. And we don't hear people criticizing Michael Jordan. for passing the ball. He recognized that was the right play. You just can't, I believe it's called resulting in Annie Duke's book, Life in Betts or something. We had her on the show. We talked about too many people look at the result and say, was it a good decision or not. You can't live like that.

You got to look at like with the hand I had and what I was looking at, did I make the right moves? And I think, Jude, you're a very good example of somebody who played their cards. Well, you learn from playing them the wrong way in the beginning and now you play them the right way and you operate in that space of uncertainty, but feeling confident that you made the right move. You know, thank you so much. But before I stop gambling with blackjack, you know, there's always that question, do you hit on 12 or not, right? And what I ended up doing is I ended up saying that I will always hit on 12.

And whether I win or lose, but that's the plan, you know? So there's never any second guessing. It took the decision making away from me. It took the criticizing away from me. the self-criticizing and stuff like that. So yeah, you do what's the best whether it works out in that instance or not, but it was the best decision to make. I think that's the economy we're in right now. Do I hit on 12 or do I pass? Nobody knows the answer with where the market's going to go right now. You might bust or you might lose from not hitting on 12, right? The dealer might hit a 13

or something like that. So that's great advice is you cannot overthink that and then give yourself credit when it works out and give yourself blame when it doesn't. I was going to say that's why I try to take all my real estate investing, like, whether or not I buy a house or not, I try to make it as non-emotional as possible. It's like if I can get, for example, for me, it's like if I can get an 8% cash on cash return and I can get, you know, whatever, I will do it. Because like at the end of day, like I could second guess a million things. Oh, what if something goes wrong with the economy fails? I'm like, no, does it pass my number or not? Does it make the kind of return I want or an open door capital?

I'm like, can we underwrite from a 15% return or a 14% IRA and work backwards? And yeah, are some crazy things going to happen that we can't control or we can't see possibly? But if I keep the emotion out of it and I just do what I know makes sense, nine times out a 10, it's going to work out just fine. And that average is going to make sure that we all make their kind of returns we want. We have the life that we kind of want. But if I just freeze and say I'm not going to do anything because there's a million things that could go wrong. Yeah, that's a guaranteed loss.

Oh, man, this has been a great episode. Really love chatting with you and look forward to kind of see where you head in the future. with your real estate, with the Brooklyn Bank, and just with everything you're doing. So I appreciate you. We got one more question, Jude. Where can people find out more about you? I'm on Instagram and Mr. Jude Bernard, mr.judad, bernard, m.r.jud at the Brooklyn Bank and Judebernard.com.

Perfect. Well, thanks for your time today, Jude. I really appreciate the insight you shared, the wisdom, the transparency with some of the times the ball did not bounce your way and what you learned from it as well as the inspiration you are to many other people who may be unfamiliar with this world from the the gecko, but that does not mean that they cannot get into it. I really like that. And there's a million sports analogies that I could use. I will spare you guys another analogy in this show. Sweet. All right, David, you want to get us out of here in a closed-up shop? I would love to.

This is David Green for Brandon Shoot Your Shot Turner. Signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the height, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

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