BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 520: $47k/Month in Rent, 0 Doors Owned | Rookie Takeover w/ Rafael Loza

Episode Date: October 19, 2021

The hosts look and sound a little different today. There are no beards and we haven’t heard one metaphor containing jiu-jitsu lingo... That’s because Ashley Kehr and Tony Robinson, hosts of the Real Estate Rookie Podcast have taken over the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast! Ashley and Tony regularly talk about how rookies can get their first (or next) deal, but today they’re combining expertise to talk about something more controversial: rental arbitrage. Rental arbitrage is a form of subletting that allows long-term tenants to make massive cash flow off of short-term rentals. Someone who’s done this to an extreme is Rafael Loza. Rafael was working the night shift as his W2 job when he found out about short-term rental arbitrage. He sat on the idea for a few months, but ultimately tried out the concept on an apartment. This one apartment took home a massive profit, allowing him to quit his job and scale to fourteen units in just nine months. Now, Rafael has twenty-four active units, all grossing thousands of dollars a month in rent for him. Back in March of 2020, Rafael was projected to bring in forty-seven thousand dollars in revenue in one month alone. But, the pandemic hit, forcing him to pivot, switch strategies, and take advantage of the flourishing short-term rental market. He has his sights set on ownership, but now he’s simply raking in the short-term stacks. In This Episode We Cover: Rental arbitrage and why it’s a low-cost way to get into real estate investing Short-term cash flow vs long-term appreciation and combining the two The startup costs it takes to create an arbitrage empire How to pitch landlords on using their properties for short-term rentals Negotiating leases and adding a subletting clause to any lease you undertake Pivoting when your business hits a wall and combing back stronger And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Youtube Channel Brandon Turner's Instagram Tony's Instagram Ashley’s Instagram Real Estate Rookie Youtube Channel Airbnb Vrbo The Real Estate Rookie Podcast Clubhouse Check the full show notes here: https://biggerpockets.com/show520 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 520. My goal is to be 65 on a beach sipping a margarita on the first of the month getting a paycheck. And that's able to happen because I started with 40 short-term rental arbitrage units that bought me my first apartment complex that maybe got me the second one, that got me the third one. So by the time I'm 65, that margarita is going to be hanging out, right? Like with me, because I did all the work and the groundwork to get there. Does that make sense? You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio.

simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's up, everybody? I'm your co-host, Brandon Turner. Wait, hold on. I'm not Brandon Turner.

What's up, guys? Now it's Tony Robinson. I'm here with my co-host, Ashley Care, from the Real Estate Rookie Podcast. And today we are taking over the Bigger Pockets OG show. We couldn't be more excited. This is a very exciting day for us. It is also Tony's first time ever doing an intro on the podcast. We almost had to get out a teleprompter, but he made it through.

So everybody, please clap for Tony. Yeah, hopefully those bloopers never make it onto the air. So that stays between us. Ashley, what's up? Welcome to the OG show. How's it feel to be here? It has been almost two years since I've been on the show. even before I was a podcast host, I had an episode on here.

So it is great to be back. Yeah. It's so crazy, right? Like all the years we spent listening to the podcast now to be on this side. So this is a message to all the listeners that dreams do come true. You can achieve your wild, this crazy dreams if you work hard enough to make it happen. Exactly. And we have a guest on the show today, Raffo, who talks about that is his dream was to get out of his

W-2 job. And he has his five-year plan in place. and he is going to talk about how he uses apartment arbitrage to have Airbnb and short-term rentals and corporate rentals and nurse rentals, all kinds of short-term rentals you can think of. Yeah. So for those who that don't know, like the majority of my investment portfolio is in short-term rentals. And Roth and I actually connected on Clubhouse a couple of months ago. We've just kept in touch since then.

He's got like just such an amazing story of how he's pretty much built this business like single-handedly. and he's got like 25 active units. I think he's got like another 30 that he's working on right now. So he's just doing phenomenal, amazing things. And he gives an absolute masterclass on how to get into the game of Airbnb or short-term rental arbitrage. Real estate investors, the April 15th tax deadline is coming fast. If you own rental property and haven't done a cost segregation study yet, you could be handing

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I could be contributing right now. Your side room wants a side hustle. Even your Wi-Fi is like, we could be networking. You're on vacation, spending money like it's a sport, while your staircase at home is fully capable of sending your income upwards. Here's the twist. You can go on a trip and actually earn money. Airbnb makes that possible with the co-host network.

If you're away for a while or have a secondary property, you can hire a vetted local co-host with real hosting experience. to handle it all. A co-host can handle guest communications. It can manage reservations and keep things running smoothly so you don't have to check your phone between beach days. That means less stress and more time enjoying your trip. You can relax, knowing guests are taken care of and your place is in good hands.

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Get a quote in minutes at biggerpockets.com slash landlord insurance. Steadily, landlord insurance designed for the modern investor. Before we get into today's show, here's today's quick tip. Quick tip. Make sure you guys go and subscribe to the Real Estate Rookie Podcast, where Tony and I are the co-host and we have a ton of fun and we bring you guys rookie content. So if you are a new investor getting started in real estate and you want to learn and you want to

grow and scale and become the best investor you can be, we have content that is tailored directly to you. So you can also check us out on YouTube. Search real estate rookie. All right, Asher, that was a great, awesome tip, a little self-promotion there. I love it. But with that, let's get into today's show and bring on Rafa. Raffa, welcome to the bigger pockets real estate podcast, brother. We're super excited to have you on here today, excited to dive into your story. Why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about who you are and how you got started in the world of real estate investing? Yeah, Tony, thanks for having me, man. I'm really, really excited to be here. So, you know, my name's Rafa. I do short-term rentals. It's really all I do. I've been doing it for about four years now. Just a quick story to get into it about four years ago. I wanted to get into real estate investing. And I live in Southern California. So the house is here in Southern California, right? At that,

time we're about an average medium of like 460, 470 in my area, right, in Orange County. And so I had this idea where at the time I was transitioning between jobs, I was working at casino and I'm like, hey, I need to find like something to make extra cash to get out of this job. I'm not the type of guy that likes to work 9 to 5. I think I've had like five jobs my entire life. And so I started doing like listening to podcasts and figuring out how to analyze deals. And I didn't know about the Byrd method back then, right? And I found that, like quickly found out that if I were to buy a house here, like I would

make zero cash flow. I probably end up with like 50 bucks if I like timed everything up or probably even negative cash flow, right? So at the time, as I was doing research, my partner at the time, we were talking, she's like, hey, because she works in Hollywood and she's like, yeah, there's this guy who's driving around this Ferrari. He's like 24 years old. And I'm like, how is he doing this? And he's like, yeah, I guess he's got like 10 apartments on Airbnb. And I'm like, oh, I know what Airbnb is, right? And I started doing research and I found out about short term rentals. And I was like, wait a second. So it's as simple as the arbitrage model where I'm I can lease out a unit and put it up on a website like Airbnb and start making money.

And so I started doing more research and found a mentor that was teaching like systems and processes and I kind of jumped in on it. Watch the couple videos and then put it on the back burner, right? Like a lot of people do. I let it sit there for about six months. It was always in the back of my mind. I was working still. At that time, I was working graveyard.

So as you can imagine, like sleep during the day. So it sucked like really slowed me down a lot like my progress. And then one day my partner at the time, she's like, hey, I got us a meeting at this apartment complex. Like I already did the initial, like, call, go out there and see what we can do. So I went out there and I pitched them, hey, you know, we're trying to do short-term rentals. So my first pitch, I was all nervous and shaky. And at that time, that complex, it was a 120-unit complex and it had about a 65% vacancy. They were remodding the whole thing. It was all fresh, brand new remodels. So I was like, all at least one, two-bedroom off of you guys. I ran the numbers and she's like,

yeah, we can go ahead and give you one. So I was all excited, right? So we ran the numbers. we went and we did what I did is I ended up leasing so what I do is arbitrage right and so I lease out units we can go into that in a little bit but I ran the numbers in comparison to the house that I was going to put down on the house versus the money that I was going to put down on the house versus the money that was putting down on this apartment that money I was going to get back in about seven months projected right and it was a 20 grand or so a little bit under 20 grand at the time I ended up doing half on a credit card and half cash and we spent about I want to see a little bit under $20,000 on this two bedroom apartment right with rent and deposit and And we went live in the middle of December. I paid the first month's rent. That first month's deposit as well because I was brand new in that building. And by the end of December, I had both that money back, the rent and the deposit. And I was like, whoa, okay. At the end of January, I had made a $6,000 profit on a two-bedroom apartment, right?

And I was like ecstatic about it. So I was like, okay. And it all just kind of fell into place after that. I had a good relationship with the complex. Again, they were super vacant. And they offered me another one, offered me another one. And then nine months later, I had 14 units live, two different complexes. Now I've been at it for four and a half years, 24 units live right now.

That is amazing. Yeah, it's so awesome. Can you just tell everyone just real quick, what's a snapshot of your portfolio look like? What was the total amount of units you have? Yeah. So right now I have actually 23 live units. I just closed one down yesterday. So I have 23 apartments.

They're all arbitrage leases. And I'm actually sitting in an eight bedroom apartment complex that we're taking over right now. It's actually being remodeled by the owner. I'm kind of in a partnership with him where I lease out everything he goes live on. and so I have 23 live. I'm actually giving four away here, two to my brother and two to a buddy of mine, because I want them to get started in this. So I'm going to have four more.

In the backside, there's a two-bedroom bungalow that's being remodeled that I'm taking over. I just signed a lease on a three-bedroom house this morning. So currently live, I have 23 units, four different locations, and I have four, five, six, seven units that are going to be coming live in the next three weeks or so. And then I spoke briefly to Tony about this, but I'm working to deal with another investor that I'm going to take over. a 30-unit apartment complex, all 30 units, brandy remodel. Yeah, I can't wait to dive into more of this.

I want everyone listening today to be able to do the exact same thing you're doing if that's kind of what fits their goal, their strategy. So let's start, first of all, with your strategy. What is arbitrage? Can you go into detail as to what that is? Yeah, actually, it's a really good question. I've heard a lot of people talk about it and like everybody has a different kind of like how they do it, right?

The arbitrage model that I do is basically we come in as a long-term tenant on any apartment or bedroom and we lease out the unit for long term, right, a year lease, like a regular person or what, but we do it under our corporation. And what we do is we take that one apartment house, whatever the actual asset or the actual building is, and we furnish it and then we re-rent it per night as a short-term rental. So we end up making a profit based on the nightly rentals, right? So if we rent an apartment for $2,100 a month for 12 months, then we furnish it. Instead of me making $2,100 off that one-bedroom apartment, I end up doing anywhere between $40, $500 to $6,000 a month. So we make a decent spread on top of the rent and all the expenses. That's what

arbitrage is. Yeah. So you're basically locking up that unit and then relisting on an Airbnb for a higher price. Now, Rafa, you and I originally connected on Clubhouse. And I remember after hearing you talk, I was like, man, like, this guy's got it going on, right? Because like, we're both in the short-term rental space. We're doing it in different ways. And when I hear the revenue that you're able to generate without actually owning the units, it kind of makes my headspin. There are definitely some pluses to, you the arbitrage model, but there are also some risks associated with the arbitrage model as well. So just from your own perspective, what do you see is the things that make rental arbitrage really, I guess a really strong business plan? And then what are some of the risks associated with

going down that path as well? Yeah, absolutely. Tony, such a good question. So, all right, I'll give you guys a quick example. I just opened a one-bedroom apartment. It cost me $12,000 in terms of furnishing, design, first month's rent and deposit. That's all it was, right? The four biggest expenses. And so that unit, $12,000 is all it takes me to start up. I can get those $12,000 back in easy eight to nine months. And then as long as that unit is still active, it will be cash flowing for the life of that one bedroom, right? Just to give you a perspective, I just checked the numbers on that one bedroom. It went live middle of June. As of today, it's already revenue $12,700. Right. It's not all profit, but it's revenue just exactly what I've

put into it, right? I've profited probably about 40% of that, maybe. I don't know. And so that's the beauty of doing the arbitrage model is, let's say somebody only has $10,000 to get started, and they can't go and get, you know, a $400,000 loan or a house because the deposit's not there. And they just want cash flow, right? They don't want the equity. They just want to make some side money to, I don't know, pay for their weekends out, right? Or their dinners with family or whatever the case may be. You open one unit up at a cost of about 10 grand, a small one-bedroom, 450 square foot apartment.

And that unit, if done correctly, will be cash-flowing you a minimum of $1,000 a month. minimum, if done correctly and done in the right locations, right? And it's extra cash, right? And again, if you're the type of person who wants your money back, just save all the profits and you'll have it back in a solid eight, 10 months with what you initially started, right? To answer the second part of your question, the downside is that you're pretty much at the expense or at the mercy of the property owner, right? So if you're working with these giant reits, right, the big 300 unit apartment complexes that have the property management's in place already, odds are you can get kicked out in a year if you have issues with your guests, with neighbors, whatever the case may be.

Or if you go into a building without having full transparency with the owner and you start doing things like Airbnb, then the owner gets upset. He can kick you out. And that ends your entire business, right? It's over. So that's the downside. You're pretty much at the mercy of whoever you're working with and at the length of that lease. And there's ways to mitigate that risk, right?

I've been in buildings for four years, no issues, right? I've been in buildings where after 12 months, a lot of people started jumping into that building and we were all asked to leave because it was just bothering too many neighbors, right? So I've pivoted, I've talked about it shortly, so where now, instead of me going into these big giant apartment complexes, I actually like to work with small mom and pop investors that own eight to 12 unit complexes, these small buildings where I can just lease the entire thing and I don't have to worry about a long-term tenant being disturbed by my short-term guest. Does that make sense? And then I'll sign a three-year lease, so I'm protected with them. I have full transparency of what I do with the owner. So the owner knows exactly what I'm doing, right? Not all of my units are on Airbnb, right? Not all of my units are on VRBO. I get a lot of direct book. contractors, nurses, all of that. And so they're aware of all of that. And because they know how I operate, the way I manage, it's a pretty safe bet that I'll be in this eight unit building I'm in. I'll be able to have this for as long as I really want, to be honest, you know, three, four years,

whatever the case may be. Does that answer right? Raffa, what a great answer to that question, man. And you actually answer my second question without me even asking was like, how do you mitigate that risk? But, I mean, what a great example. I know folks that are also doing arbitrage outside of you. And yeah, when you're in that big apartment complex, there's friction between the people that actually live there and then the guests that are coming in and out of these short-term rentals. So you're bound to get some complaints. But if you go in and the whole place is yours, you don't have to worry about anybody complaining. And, you know, you have a better relationship with that owner. So I love that approach. I want to go back to what you said about the startup

cost, because I think this is what I really want to highlight for the guests. You said one of the recent units that you brought up, this one bedroom, your all-in cost was $12,000. which is like mind blowing to me, right? Like we've got a studio that we're working on in Joshua Tree, and we're probably going to spend about $55,000 getting that one, you know, the down payment closing costs and the furnishing, right? 55 versus 12 is a huge, huge, huge difference, right? Like just ballpark, Rafa, how much do you think you'll actually profit

on that one bedroom that costs $12,000 to get set up on an annual basis? On an annual basis, that unit will do $1,500 a month minimum, like minimums. So what is that? Yeah, I don't know, what the totals times 12? 15 times 12. I can't do like 168,000 out of it. It's like 16,000 somewhere around there, right? I don't know.

Yeah, it's up where it's going to be like 16 grand for the year, something like that. And that's, again, if I have it at the minimum, right? And this is what I'm looking at right now. I'm actually seeing some crazy numbers with that unit. Like all of July it did, it's, guys, it's a 400 square foot apartment, 450. It's tiny. It should have been a studio. And so all of July, I was doing like 240 a night.

on that and I was blown away by it. Like that's crazy. It had a ridiculous profit in July. But right now we're in slow season. So yeah, minimum $1,500 a month profit for 12 months is what I'll make off that one. So I did the math. I'm not 16, but it's $18,000. So $500 a month at 12 months is $18,000. So you're getting back literally all of your capital and then some in that first year, right? For us on the studio, again, we're putting in about $55,000 into this property and Joshua Tree. We'll probably gross about 75. We'll net maybe half of that. So we'll keep somewhere between 35 to 40 grand on that property. So we're not quite recapturing all of our capital. We're getting closed, but not quite. And I'm illustrating these two different scenarios to

show something to the listeners that the benefits typically of going with arbitrage are that you're going to get better cash on cash returns because the capital outlay is so small. The overall revenue and profit numbers might be a little bit smaller, right? We're talking 18,000 versus like 35 to 40,000. But your money is going to stretch a lot further on the arbitrage model because you're only spending such, you know, a third or a fourth of what we're spending to actually purchase and acquire these properties. Wafel, you and I've talked about this before as well.

And then, sorry, Ashley, I'm like hogging up because you're talking about short-term rental. So you're not, I can't shut up when we get on this topic. Well, actually, Tony, I feel like I do have a leg up for you this one time. on a short-term rental because that's my only unit for Airbnb is arbitrage. Well, let's all kind of talk to this. And actually, maybe you get your opinion first and Raffa, we can go to you afterwards. But I think one of the other benefits of owning the unit as opposed to the arbitrage model is that you get the long-term appreciation.

To me, I think that's probably one of the biggest reasons why I haven't jumped into the arbitrage model yet is because I also want to build wealth long-term. So, Ashley, what are your thoughts and Ruff will go to you afterwards? Yeah, I agree with you on that, Tony. There's not a lot of equity buildup. There's, you know, no mortgage pay down. There's no appreciation. What you're seeing is you're seeing cash now compared to wealth building in the future.

And we had just had Avery Carl on. And she talked about this as to how she doesn't do arbitrage because she's building wealth and wants to own the actual units. I definitely agree with that. But I also think that there's a ton of opportunity to build capital to buy other wealth building assets by using this model. So for example, the apartment that I have, it's in a complex where I used to be the property manager for, I used to run it, and I am on a month-to-month lease. The owner knows exactly what I'm doing and super happy for me, and I can probably do it as long as I want, but I also have the option to pull out of it if I want to. So that's pretty low risk for me doing this.

And I just actually pulled up the numbers because we were talking about the initial investment. So it was $5,000 for me to start it. And just this year alone, we've had $18,000 in revenue and we still have three more months to go for the year. So there definitely is a lot of cash to be made now, but there's no really, I don't see a long-term benefit of it, except for using that cash to purchase other properties for buy and hold. Rafa, what are your thoughts on that debate? Yeah. So both they're awesome points. And actually, what you just said at the end is exactly the whole reason, right? You've got to have a goal with this. And let me, I want to structure as best as I can. So the whole point of why I do this and how I do this is to be able to come in and purchase property. Throughout my little four years

of history that I've been doing this, I've had the opportunity to purchase several times already, right? The reason I don't is because I have a goal in mind to hit a certain amount of cash flow every month to where I can come in and go, all right, I like that property. Boom, here's a down payment. I like that property, boom, here's a down payment, right? So you got to have a goal in mind when you start this. If you want to start doing, for example, Tony, your studio and Josh Whitree, can a person really put in $55,000 open that one studio and then quit their job with the revenue of that one unit? Probably not, right? Okay, well, I can take your $50,000. I can open five units, cash flowing me $5,000 a month. I can quit my job, do this full time,

build this business, and delay gratification, right? In a year's time, those five units will be cash flowing me enough to either open more units or to do this full time as no other job and focus on actual investing now where I can learn how to do the birth strategy or go out in wholesale or lease to owner, whatever it is that people want to learn out there because they started this first and a year later, now they're cash flow enough to quit or they started five units and they're cash flow enough to in a year and say, hey, now I have $50,000 sitting in the bank. Now I can go into real estate investing, right? And so anybody who's listening to this needs to come in and go, all right, what's the plan?

I have a five-year plan, guys, right? My five-year plan is to get to a certain amount of arbitrage units and it's why I haven't purchased anything because I don't want to break that plan. in five years, if I have anywhere between 50 to 100 arbitrage units, I can go out in Tony, join you out in the smokies with the cabin, right? I'm looking at a five unit complex right now that I might turn into short-term rentals purchase, right? I'm actually working with partners now to be able to buy complexes to purchase, but I'm at that stage where I'm able to get there. Not only do I know short-term rental so well with the systems, the processes that I have built

that for me, any unit I get, even if it's a 30-unit apartment complex, I can plug and play it, right? And going back to that point, it was because the arbitrage model, me to get there. I can delay gratification again. I know that if I wait three, four years, my goal is to be 65 on a beach sipping a margarita on the first of the month getting a paycheck. And that's able to happen because I started with 40 short-term rental arbitrage units that bought me my first department complex that maybe got me the second one, that got me the third one. So by the time I'm 65, that margarita is going to be hanging out, right? Like with me, because I did all the work and the ground work to get there. Does that make sense?

This is why I love real estate is because there's so many different strategies, so many different ways to do it. In real estate can be easy because there's so many different ways to get started, but it can also be hard because there's so many different ways that there's no set like, okay, you go to college, you go to med school, you do your residency, okay, you're a doctor. Like there's no set plan, so that makes it difficult. But I also love it because no matter what your background or what your goal, there is some way for you to find a strategy that works for you. And this is what's working for you. Did you know? you can go on vacation and actually earn money.

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Find out how much at Airbnb.com Did you know your house gets bored when you leave? I can't actually prove that, but it probably misses out on the action, the footsteps, the late night fridge raids. Yeah, when you're gone, your place is basically on unpaid leave. It's sitting there in the dark thinking, I could be contributing right now. Your side room wants a side hustle. Even your Wi-Fi is like, we could be networking. You're on vacation, spending money like it's a sport while your staircase at home, is fully capable of sending your income upwards. Here's the twist.

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turning into big losses. And that matters more than ever in this economy. That's why I like Mind. Unlike other property managers, Mind manages your property like an investment. They obsessively measure the things that matter for your bottom line. Things like occupancy, delinquency, and net promoters. And they have the results to prove it. Go to mine.co slash show me to see how mine performs and get your first month free, which is much cheaper than learning the hard way. So, Rafa, I want to know when you go out and find these units, how do you pitch these landlords? So for my unit, it's somebody that I know very well. And it was easy.

But how do you even go out and find these apartments? And then what does your pitch look like? Sure. So there's so many ways to do it, right? Now my strategy has changed over the years. At first, it was go on Apartments.com and look for apartments that were for rent. And that's how I found it. The problem with that is, Ashley, is that to go into without having to change the conversation here is that every pitch is different depending on the type of location I get, right?

So my pitch is different for property managers who are managing 500 units. My pitch is different from an owner who has a three-bedroom house. My pitch is different to an eight-unit apartment complex owner, right? Every single one is different. And it has to be approached differently because this is a different type of location. and the way it's going to be managed is different, right? And so now, so the best way right now, like if anybody wants to get started in arbitrage, is to drive your neighborhood.

And what will happen is if you see like a multifamily being rehabed, go talk to the general contract. So you're driving the neighborhood. You see a contractor, get the contractor to put you in contact with the owner because the owner's going to want to leave these units out eventually. So you're going to come and solve this owner's problem before it even goes on the market. If you're doing like, let's take an eight unit complex, you get the owner on the line and you go, hey, my name's Rafa. I'm with nine-year-properties. We're a short-term rental provider. We do corporate

housing. We house business travelers, travel nurses, families here for leisure in the area. And I'd love to talk to you about leasing out your complex before you put it up on the market. Is that something that would work for you? Do you allow corporate leases? Are you interested in working with me? I'm an investor and I can show you what I do. That's the initial conversation with like a small investor, right? Someone that's like-minded that also invests that we'll take care of it. Like, that's the first initial conversation, right? Kind of like, you know, wholesale has three different calls that you do type of rapport, build, all that. Well, same with this. The first conversation, I just want the investor to know, hey, this is what I do. The second

conversation, we meet up and I go, all right, I show them either a unit that I have or I tell them, hey, look. And with all of them, I'll give you guys the pitch for the apartment, giant apartment complexes. But with all of them, I don't focus on short-term rentals. I don't focus on Airbnb. I don't focus on corporate housing provider. I focus on the customer that I'm attracting to these locations, whether it be business travelers, whether it be nurses who are here, whether it's the families that are here for Disneyland. I'm very close to Disneyland. Whatever it is, right? Travelers to the national parks, Tony, wherever you guys are having, right? And I focus on that specific topic more than anything. So I tell them, hey, all right, so I tell the owner, hey,

so this apartment here, like, I want to turn it into a short-term rental. It's going to be corporate house for people that are going to be here for business. This place is great. And I walk through what I do, right, how I'm going to furnish it, what it is, how long the stays are going to be medical professionals and business travelers are typically, they're not really short term. They're about, well, they're short term, but they're 14 days to about a month, 41 days, right, on average. And so once I explain what it is that I'm doing and how I'm using their unit and how well I'm going to take care of it, that's important. You've got to explain how well you're going to take care of the unit. The fact that, hey, I'm going to clean this unit professionally seven times a month, maybe, instead of one time all year where you're going to have to come in and scrub the gunk off the shower.

that's not going to happen with me in five years from now because this place has to be exactly the same five years from now than today. And so that's how I talk to the investors. It's very similar to the big REITs, the big property managers. The one thing I do want to make clear is with the big property managers, a lot of these big property managers already have their systems in place up to who they allow in, how they vet people and what the requirements are to enter this building, right? You come in and you say, hey, my name's Rafa. I'm with night and ring properties. I'm a short-term rental operator that sets of corporate houses for travel nurses, medical professionals, business. travelers and families here for leisure in the area, do you guys allow corporate leases? And that's it. And then I wait. And then they'll either tell you, depending on, again, the type of property manager that you're dealing with, they'll go, oh, yeah, we do a lot corporate housing or, yeah, we do a lot corporate leases, or yeah, we allow that. Or they'll tell you, I don't know what is that.

And that's where you have to go in and educate them, right? Our job is to actually educate them on how we do it. Well, the problem with these big reeds as these big property management companies is that they require two years business history. They require business credit. They require maybe a year worth of bank statements or even three years worth of bank statements or five times the amount of money in the bank for the deposit and for the rents and the deposit and all that. But their definition of a corporate lease is very different based on who you're talking to. Some people think that you're bringing your employees and you're going to house them in that unit, right? Something that you're doing a corporate lease at 30-day minimums or something that all it is is your corporation is literally

signing the lease and that's it for yourself, right? So they don't understand and you have to educate them that. That's why throwing the short-term rental bid in there because I tell them, no, look, we furnish the entire apartment and then we provide it to people who need short-term stays or places to stay short-term where they don't have the ability to sign a one-year lease. And that's where we come in. That's the service we provide to them. The service we can provide to you is that we can fill up any vacancy you have right now. I can take five units if you have them. I can take 10 units if you have them. And then that's kind of where you go from there based on the conversation. Did that answer it? I hope that made sense. No, absolutely,

what a fantastic breakdown, brother. And you're giving like a master class on how to negotiate the arbitrage units. I guess one follow-up question is, have you ever been denied by a landlord? Like, you wouldn't go give them your pitch? And they said, no, I'm not interested. And if so, like, what was their reasoning? Yeah, so a lot, actually. Funny story, I almost got denied with the guy I'm working with now, and I actually have 14 units with him. The first thing he says, when I walk in the door, before we've even introduced each other, he goes, I don't want any Airbnb be here. And I'm like, okay, no problem. Let me tell you what I do first before we get into the Airbnb talk. And so I had to, Tony, that doesn't answer the question, but that guy had to educate him on what is that I do.

Right. Before him, I've talked to, I mean, I've called hundreds of complexes. Like, I know all the apartment complexes in my area. They'll just tell you, hey, we don't allow corporate leases. All right, no problem. Or no, we don't want any short-term stays. Or we've already had a guy to Airbnb here before, right? We don't want that anymore. It's been too many headaches.

It's too many problems. Okay, well, no hard feelings. No problem. You go on and you call the next one, right? The ones that really hurt are like the small investors because you're like, hey, like, we're kind of like-minded here. Like, I'm trying to get to your level. you own the property, but I'm at the point where I can lease it out for you so that you're a 0% vacancy, right? And yeah, those are the ones that are like where I'll meet up with them and I'll

explain to them what we do. And they're like, no, man, look, I don't want to deal with any of that. I'd rather just have a long-term tenant in there. And I'm like, I mean, look, I am going to be your long-term tenant. I'm just going to be using the house multiple times. As a matter of fact, I'm going to be an even more of a headache solver because I'm going to deal with the small maintenance issues. You don't have to call a maintenance person out here. And they're still like, no, they're not open to it. They're like, no, we just don't want to deal with it. we're going to disturb the neighbors, the neighborhood's going to get upset. They immediately think, oh, if I lease you this unit, it's going to go on Airbnb,

and tomorrow there's going to be 20 people walking in the door with the cooler and a DJ system. Like, that's literally what their mind goes. And I have to sit here and like, usually the conversation goes back to them. Like they've passed on letting me lease and then they'll call me like a month later where the unit's still vacant. And like, hey, can you explain to me again what it is that you're doing? And then that's when I come back and I'm like, look, yeah, this is what I do. This is how I do it. And then it ends up, sometimes it ends up working out.

Sometimes they tell me, no, no hard feelings. I just go to the next place. I asked that as kind of like a leading question, Rafa, because I would have assumed that there would be a lot of rejection while you're going out and doing this. And I think people hear that you're at 23 active units with another 30 plus that you're working on. And I'm like, man, like Rafa's killing it.

But they're not understanding all of the legwork and all of the rejection that you had to go through to get to that point. And, you know, Ash and I talk about this all the time. Like we see new investors who say, man, I've submitted, you know, three offers and nothing's been accepting. Like, you know, real estate investing doesn't work. It was all a lie, but it's like, no, it's a numbers game, right?

You've got to get to a certain number of rejections before you finally get to that first yes. And, you know, the fact that you know every single apartment complex in your area, right? And you've been rejected by many of them proves that point, man. That's literally me just on everyday deals this week. Rejection after rejection. But it's part of the process, right? Yeah, well, I'll tell you guys what, to put everybody's mind at ease, Tony. And so, like, everybody listening, right?

you'll get 40 nos, but all you really need you guys is one yes, because we're going after multifamily here, right? So if I'm going after somebody who's got 10 apartments or an investor who's got, I don't know, 20 doors or something, and I get one yes from them. And then I do my job as a short-term rental operator and I kill at it, right? I house the right people. My security systems are in place. I stop the parties instantly. Their vacancies full. They love it. The place is designed beautifully. They use me to appraise their property, right, because it's just beautiful. I guarantee see everybody listening to this that after your first one, they're going to offer you the second one. And then they're going to offer you the third one. That first building that I was telling you guys about,

I had 14 units in that building because they went from one. And then they're like, man, this guy's, like, he's doing what he said, right? I'm housing the people. This is why I focus so much on talk about who you're going to house. Because if I tell him, hey, I'm going to bring business and families here, and then they see 525-year-olds walking with coolers and, you know, cans of beer, then I'm not housing who I said I'm on a house. And now I'm lying, right? And so when you get that first one, you operate correctly and you do what you're going to say, I guarantee everybody listening to this, you'll get the second unit from that same person. Or when you go out and you network and you go to like a local real estate meetup, you have the experience to talk about what you're doing because

you're excited about it. You're going to catch somebody's ear. And that person is going to go, hey, I kind of want to talk to you about short term rental, especially right now. They're super popular. Everywhere you go, everybody wants to talk about Airbnb and short term rentals. And they'll tell you, hey, I have a property. You want to come look at it, see if it works for you. I'm actually turning away properties now because they're so ugly and beat up that I'm like, I can't work with this. Like rehab it and then I can come in and take over it. Like I kid you not.

And again, to put everybody's mind at ease, get the first yes and that person will just start throwing properties at you. Rafa, this whole conversation really reminds me of somebody going after a partner too. You're pitching them an opportunity, really. The people that do decide to, you know, have a nice apartment to run out to you, you are providing them an opportunity because just like the things you said where in five years, it's going to look exactly the same. They're not going to be scrubbing gunk off the wall.

And they're going to have that guaranteed rent for the next three years or however long your leases. Tony and I talk about this a lot is pitching a partner and not begging them like, oh, please, give me this opportunity to partner with me is to show them that really you're providing them an opportunity. And that's the way you should be pitching it, not that they're doing you a favor. Well, you know what, Ashley, really quick to give you an example on that. when I first moved to this city on one of the buildings that I have here up the street, I have, it's a 12-unit building. I actually have eight units in that building, and it's the same guy that I told you that the first thing he says was I don't want Airbnb, right?

We had the conversation. It was about an hour and a half long. I said, hey, man, look, listen, I'll tell you what, give me this one unit, try me out. Let's do a six-month lease so you can see how I operate. If it doesn't work for you know hard feelings, right? The building's vacant anyway. Like, if you get other tenants, cool. If you don't, I can take all 12.

I kid you not. I can show you that everything that I have my business history, all of that, whatever you need. And he goes, all right, fine, I'll try you out for six months. We started designing it. It was, I want to say a week and a half later. He's like, all right, we were in there hustling. We're getting this, because we got to get this unit up and running, right? It's got to be up and running within the week to start making money.

We implement, we have the security guy come in and install everything, the doorbell cameras, the works. And he goes, hey, you want another unit? And I just started laughing. I go, I'll take all eight. He goes, just take one more. I'm like, okay, I start the second unit. Two weeks later, all, I'll give you the one next door. I'm like, I'll take all of them. I'll take all of them. And he gives me another one. And then he ended

getting two long-term leases up top. And then after he's like, bro, just take the entire building. And I was like, I told you. And now I have eight units in that building, you know? You talked a little bit about your startup cost. But what about your reserves? What kind of reserves do you have in place for each of these units as you take more and more on? How was it during COVID? For my unit, we had one month of vacancy. And I think we were pretty lucky that that was all that we had. And that was even when Airbnb reimbursed you up to, I think, like, 15% of what your booking should have been. So it really wasn't that bad. But if you have this many units, how do you prepare if something like that were to happen again? So, man, Ashley, like, you're bringing up

dark times. So COVID was tough. It was when it hit in March, I was projected at the beginning of the month in reservations, something like 47K or something. I don't know. At the time, I actually had 21 units live. And the moment COVID hit, I was down to $700. And I'm like, oh, what's going to happen here? I had reserves. So everybody, like, you should definitely save one month's reserves. Like, take the money and save it, right? Everybody, like, this is one of the things with short-term rentals.

Everybody thinks, I'm going to, like, you know, I just said I'm going to profit $1,500 a month. I'm not taking that and pocketing it. I pay myself a very small salary out of my business, and the rest sits in the business. And it just stays there. And I have at one month's minimum for all my rent and my expenses. Like, it just sits there and it's already waiting. So in case something happens, I,

I at least have 30 days to figure out how am I going to stay afloat here if it continues to happen. So luckily I had that when the pandemic hit. The second thing is I had to pivot. This is another very, very important thing too, is that's why I think you guys heard of me. I've been saying short-term rentals, not Airbnb the whole time because Airbnb is just a marketing platform that I used to acquire customers. It's not my business at all. And so now from when COVID hit, I had to pivot really hard to attract different kind of

customers, people who are going to do 30-day minimums to at least break even to keep me afloat. that's what we did. I started reaching out to my entire network. I've been saving people's information from the first reservation I got. And I know every customer who stayed with me, every restaurant who's employees who I've housed, contractor companies, nurses who stayed with me, I have all their info. And so I blasted everybody. I said, hey, we have available units. I reached out to the city and I said, hey, I have 23 units in your city. Do you guys have workers who need a quarantine? Let me know. I'll have some. And I'll give you guys a really good discount, right? Because

as a city, I actually got like three, four reservations from the city for cops and firefers. fighters because they got COVID and they had to quarantine. And so my entire business and then I negotiated with some of the complexes that we were in a rent. So we were paying a percentage of the rent based on the revenue we brought in. And then it was going to be deferred. And it got deferred for about eight months. We've paid them back now, which is awesome. And that helped out a lot. So my operating expenses dropped, I think like 25%, which is great. But the entire pivot was I have money to cover the next month of losses. But after that, I need to be able to generate the revenue to a least break even. This is why when you do this, one thing I want everybody understand is when you get into the short-term rental world, especially arbitrage, you're in the hospitality business and you're building a business. You're not doing passive income. You're not doing real estate passive income. No long-term tenants. You're building a business. And you have to treat it as such, right? And so I treat it that way. I pay myself a very small percentage, so anything on top of it, I can save, right? I pivoted and I house different customers because as a business, as an entrepreneur, you have to be able to solve those problems. And so I start.

I started housing people long term, 30 days. I started offering very steep discounts to my break-even number, right? In some circumstances, some of my units were at $300 at a loss. But that's okay, because as long as I stayed afloat during the pandemic, the uncertain times, once everything came back, I knew it would come back. And look, it came back hard. Just June and July were two of the greatest months I've ever had in the last five years, right? I mean, it blew everything out of the water.

It was insane. I was telling Tony some of the numbers on my two-bedroom apartment. And I was like, as I was speaking about it, like, I'm getting chills thinking about it. I was blown away at these numbers, and I'm like, and all because I pivoted and I was able to stay afloat and work that system to be able to house different customers instead of focusing only on Airbnb and relying solely on Airbnb. Does that make sense, actually? Rafa, way to like pivot your business model to still make it a viable thing, even in the midst of the pandemic, man. But the point you made,

Rafa, about it being a business and not just being like passive income, I think is an important distinction for listeners to understand, right? Is that like, this isn't like you're taking $15,000 and putting it into an apartment syndication where you're a limited partner and you're just getting a check every quarter. This is an active business where you need to be hands on, managing the guests, managing the cleaners, managing the handymen, making sure the leases are getting, you know, just all these different pieces of it. So it is an active business. And I just want to make sure that the people understand that. Now, along the same point, right, you kind of talked about how you negotiated with some of the landlords during COVID? And it makes me wonder,

How are you actually structuring the leases with these landlords when you go into these agreements? Are they in Rafa's name or then your LLC's name? Like, just how are you structuring them? Like, walks through that whole process. Yeah, what are the terms of the lease? Okay. Yeah. Man, you guys are bringing up all the good points.

So the lease is all my leases are under my LLC. Every single one. Nothing's under my name. Number one, just because of the protection, right? I don't want to be liable or responsible. That's why we have the corporation. but the leases, it's just a regular tenant lease. There's nothing special about it.

The only thing that we do is we add a subletting clause or a subletting addendum to that lease. That's it. Super, super important. I can't stress this enough to everybody who listens to this podcast and says, hey, I want to go try arbitrage. Make sure your lease is structured. Not just because if you're cool with the manager and the manager says, yeah, I love it. Let's do it.

Let's do it. Let's give it. But it's okay. I know what you're doing. No problem. Don't do it. Please don't do it. Because I guarantee you that if the property manager says,

hey, we'll rotate the, some property managers rotate managers. And they decide to rotate this manager and the next one comes in. You have to educate a whole new person, convince them. If that person says, no, you don't have it on paper, you've got the boot. You're at the door, right? Not to mention if you have that addendum or that little clause in the lease that lets you do, because that's essentially is what we're doing is we're subletting, right? And if you have that little paragraph, that little form of protection, when somebody, let's see another operator, this happens to me all the time. And another operator jumps into the building and just causes havoc in that building, right? And now they say, hey, all the corporates got to go. It's happened to me. This is another dark sort of short-term rentals. I just posted a video

about this on my Instagram. Because I just got the boot to leave on one of my complexes. I could have fought that place. I could have said, hey, no, I have the lease. It's here. I have permission to cause it's here. I have permission to cause them problems, not me, right? But the reason I didn't do fight them is because I have five units in that building, and they're giving me permission to keep three, and I got to get rid of two, which is fine, right? But I could certainly come in and go, hey, no, look, my lease says that I'm allowed to be here. What's the problem, right? I still only have the freedom to be there until the end of the lease regardless.

They can kick me out at the end, but at least I'm not having to scramble and figure out what I'm going to do in the middle of a, you know, six months left on my lease to figure out where I'm going to move my furniture. Do I got to go get storage or I have to go find another complex, whatever it is. So very important, make sure you guys have the lease structured properly so that it's on paper to make sure you're operating correctly. Rafa, this is like a master class on rental arbitrage, man. You were dropping so many gems.

I love it, man. I love it. I want to take us into our next segment here, which is our deal deep dive. Come on, you got to say it with me, Ash, come on. Oh, I do. Oh, we're going to the next step, which is our deal, deep dive. All right. So, Rapha, we want to get into the nitty-gritty of run of your rental arbitrage units.

Do you have a specific deal of mine that we can kind of talk through? Yeah, so I went over that one-bedroom. Actually, we can go over this eight unit complex as a whole if you guys want. Beautiful. Yeah. Let's hit that one. So I'm going to hit you with some like rapid fire questions just to kind of set the table. And then we can kind of go into it from there. So what kind of property is it? I think we already answered this. But what kind of property is it? It's a eight unit apartment complex, all one bedrooms, one baths. Beautiful. And how did you find it? So actually remember I was telling you guys that once you get in with the good investor, they just start throwing these things at you. He's been remodeling this building for the last year and a half and he needs to get rid of his

vacancy. And so I said, hey, it'll end on the first if you give me the entire thing. And he gave it to me. And how much was it? For this building? So here's the great thing about being in good relationship with the owners. In this building, I'm paying him for four units is 2100. For four units is two grand.

So I'm paying 16,400 a month for this building. But I negotiated one month's free rent. So my startup cost is going to be virtually only the furnishing. And I negotiated a thousand per unit deposit. So I'm technically going in with $8,000 to start at this building. I have 30 days to operate for free to make that money back and then some to cover next month's expenses. So how are you funding like all these setup costs? This is just money that you've generated from your business.

Are you working with partners? You get in the loan. What does the funding look like? Currently now, it's all of my funds. It's all my business funds. When I first started, Tony, it was, I have a funny story about that. So my third unit that I started, I was like, the complex was, hey, we have a third unit. You want it?

And I'm like, yes, I wanted. I said yes. And I had no idea how I was going to do it because I had no money. I had two units operating. I was using that money to cover those expenses. And I didn't have enough money to open the third unit. So I called my dad. And I was like, hey, you guys got some money laying around that I can borrow so I can open this unit.

And funny story, he goes, yeah, I got about 10 grand under the mattress. And I'm like, what do you like, under the mattress? Like literally, he's like, yeah, like. Under the mattress? And I'm like, can I borrow that? Like, what is it doing under the bed? He's like, well, I don't know. I just haven't deposited it.

I was like, give me the money. I'll make some money off of it. So I took it and I opened the 30 unit. And I've opened three units with my parents. I've opened two units with the buddy of mine just like talking about short term rentals. He's like, I invest with you. And I said, sure. I mean, I'm trying to grow.

I think I was like on my eighth unit at the time. And he gave me some money. We opened two units. I offered him a split share of a percentage on the revenue on the profit that we make on that. And I've done working capital loans. working capital loans I've used to open one unit. I pay them back within the year. And I've talked to friends. Are you going to have a friend who I helped start short term rentals? And she was too busy to open more. I was like, how much money you got laying around? Because I knew she had money because she's got short term rentals.

So she's like, I got about $24 grand. I was like, give it to me. I'll give it back to you in a year. I know she said I have $20 grand. I was like, give it to me. I'll give it back to $4,000 on top of it. She's like, serious. I was like, yeah, I'll pay you $24 grand in 12 months. And she gave it to me. I opened two units. She got her 24 grand back. And I have two units running. They're still running. It's been two and a Raffer, you're like a wizard, man. You got all these different little tactics, man, in the world of arbitrage. But I think the important point here is that there are so many different ways to fund your real estate interest, no matter what avenue or path you want to go down. All right, man. So keeping a rolling with our deal deep dive here, we know how you funded it. The next question is, what did you do with it? But if anyone's been listening to this entire episode, I'm assuming they know what the answers to that is. But what are your plans with all these units that you're taking over right now? So actually, these eight units, four, I'm handing two over to my brother, the guy that just saved me from that ticket. and to a buddy of mine who I want him to start on short-term rentals. And so they're going to take two and two each in the front. I'm going to take the four back.

That's actually a nine-unit complex, the bungalow. But I'm going to take the four in the back, and all eight are going to be operating short-term rentals that should go live somewhere on the 1st of October or the middle. Again, they're still building it, but they're finishing touches. But it's all going to be short-term rentals, cash flow in us handsomely, hopefully for the next couple of years. What do you estimate that will be the revenue for a year, say?

For these units, honestly, these units, are probably going to do a little bit better because it's a brand new build. They're very small and we're going after a very niche customer, which is all business travelers. They tend to stay long term. I also have a lot of different people that we can use to get them filled through out of direct bookings. So these units are probably going to be doing about anywhere between 1,500 to 2 grand profit a month per year. Yeah. That's the numbers that I can include. That's awesome. That's amazing. Did you learn any lessons from doing this deal? Yes, actually huge lessons in this deal. So I was actually supposed to take over this building in the building in the building.

beginning of June. The contractors and the owner, I guess, he had a lot of setback. So I've been sitting on this unit vacant for June, July, August, going into September now. And I could have invested all this money that I invested here in other locations and taken advantage of the summer months. Instead, I got comfortable because it was handed to me and I said, hey, I'll just wait. Then they said, it'll be ready 30 days and then I waited. And it'll be ready 30 days and then I waited. So biggest lesson is number one, not all opportunities are ready to go immediately, right? This is a great opportunity, but I could have taken it and done something somewhere else while this was getting ready. Instead, I got comfortable and I spent all the money to get everything going in this units, in these units, and now we're just sitting here waiting for them to go live.

That was a big, big thing for me where I was like, maybe don't sign leases until the unit's 100% ready to go because we're waiting just for things to be finished. I was just going to ask you, yeah, I was just going to ask you what would be your recommendation. to anybody that if they come into that scenario, but you just answer that right there. Well, Rafa, man, drop in all kinds of knowledge today, man. Well, that was our deal, deep dive. But before we get out of here, Rafa, we want to ask you the same four questions that is asked every single week on the podcast here. It's time for the famous four.

All right, Rafa, so ready for these four questions, man? Yeah, let's do it. All right. So number one, what is your favorite real estate book? Favorite real estate book? I mean, it's got to be rich that, poor dad. Everybody answers that. I hate saying that too, but man, that's what got my entire wheels rolling on this.

It's such a great mindset book. It's what started everything. And what would be your favorite business book? Oh, that's a good one. Multipliers. Multipliers is huge. That's a great one. I don't know what that one is.

Yeah, it's about how to be a better boss, be a better leader. It's bring people to grow with you instead of being the guy who's directing and telling everybody go, I learned a lot of lessons from that one. I used to be the guy was like, no, I want it this way. Go do that. Now it's like, how do you think it should be solved? How would you do it? Come tell me and let's see if it works instead of, you know, doing that. Yeah, Ashley's a terrible boss. So that's why I just never read that book before.

You know what I say? I was actually thinking, geez, you know, our producer should read that buck because he's always bossing us or not taking our innovative ideas, Eric. All right. Rafa, question number three, what are your hobbies? I love sculpting. I sculpt miniature collectibles, like little five-inch figures. I love anything art-related. Yeah, I love pink. and sculpting. I actually have an art page on Instagram, too, where I post up all of the little pictures. I've sculpted like Robert De Niro, like just random characters, things that inspire me. When I get inspired, I go out and sculpt something. Other than that, my bulldog, I have an English bulldog I love playing with. What sets apart successful investors from those who give up, fail, or never get started? What would you think that would be? So, man, I love that question. In all honesty, in my opinion, it's being

comfortable. When people are comfortable, they don't do anything else outside of their zone. For example, When I started short-term rentals, I was worked, I told you guys in the beginning, I was working at a casino. After my second unit, I quit. I said, I'm going all in 100%. Had I not done that, I would have probably still been at that job, and I probably would have had maybe six units at the end of three years, right? Instead, I went all in, dove into it, was sink or swim, and got out of my comfort zone and I said, I got this has to work. Otherwise, I'm going to have to have to find another job. Even now, I get comfortable in this space where I don't really want to do anything else because I'm doing well. talking about this building, right? I got comfortable and I could have found another opportunity maybe

or worked with other people. When other people are out there thinking, hey, I want to get into real estate investing, but I'm doing pretty good. My check covers the mortgage. All my expenses are paid. I'll do this as a side gig when it's convenient for me. And then it ends up being never convenient for them and they end up never doing it. You get what I'm saying? And so being comfortable is one of the biggest things that I think is what stops people from actually doing stuff. When you're push to do something, it's when you're actually going to step up and go sink or swim, I got to do it, I don't know what the heck's going to happen. Hopefully I'd answer that. That's such a great point. And I see that in a lot of investors where when they're put into a

situation where they have no choice but to do something, they have to take action. They have to make it work because either they quit their job, they borrowed all their parents' money under the mattress or whatever that is. And that really depends on the type of person. Some people don't work well under that pressure. And so maybe it's not best you quit your job and just jump full time into real estate. But really, if you see what kind of person you are that, for myself, too, I agree that put under pressure, then I will get it done because I have no other choice to do it. So Rafa, thank you so much for joining us today. Can you tell everyone where they can find out some more information about you and possibly reach out to you? Yeah, the easiest ways to get

holding me on Instagram. It's Rafa underscore L0ZA. I have a Facebook group I open. It's called Airbnb the Big Break, where I talk about this stuff. People can join it there, ask questions. I'm pretty active there. Other than that, yeah, just add me on Facebook or Instagram. My website's night and rain.com. It's being rebuilt right now. And if anybody wants to invest, give me a call. I'm actually looking for investors to purchase some small complexes to do short-term rentals with as well. Well, Rafa, thank you so much. We've provided great value today, and we really enjoyed having you on to the podcast. Thank you for having me. It was an honor. Thank you guys for joining us. I am Ashley Care and I am signing off with my co-host, Tony. I'm going to look for my mom's money

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