BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 525: Stop Planning Goals Around Results, Do This Instead w/ Geoff Woods

Episode Date: October 31, 2021

Our perceptions of work and life have changed significantly over the past year. While we once had a clear distinction between the two, now, we have a blurred line barely separating them. For some, this has made their life more hectic, and for others, more clear. It’s now more important than ever to define where we’re going and why we’re going in that direction. Joining David today is Mindy Jensen, host of the BiggerPockets Money Podcast, and Geoff Woods, host The ONE Thing Podcast. Many guests on the show have mentioned The ONE Thing for its simple, yet impactful message for team leaders and solopreneurs who have too much on their plates. Geoff has taken the message of this book and his organization to heart, allowing him to free up time, and live a truly extraordinary life. Geoff unpacks exactly what it means to have intentional goals and live with purpose. He is very specific on defining what truly matters to your business, personal life, and internal values, and separates those things from the rest. Geoff also brings on Jordan and John, two business partners, one of which attended The ONE Thing Retreat last year, and talks them through their long-term vision, goal, and strategy. In This Episode We Cover: The importance of striving to live an extraordinary life in all aspects  How to become more purposeful in the areas of life that truly matter Working through goal setting in partnerships, relationships, or solo Why most people don’t reach their goals or set too attainable goals Permitting yourself to dream big for a five, ten, or twenty-year vision What you can expect at The ONE Thing’s 2021 Retreat Why the purpose of a goal isn’t the result, but something far more meaningful And So Much More! Links from the Show Brandon Turner's Instagram David Greene's Instagram BiggerPockets Webinars BiggerPockets Pro Membership The 1 thing Website The 1 thing podcast BiggerPockets Podcast 411: The Life-Changing Power of a Goal-Setting Retreatwith Geoff Woods The 1 thing Goal Setting Retreat Website Click here to check the full show notes: https://www.biggerpockets.com/show525 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 525. My question for you who's listening to this is, where in your life right now are you being really purposeful? Are you focused? And where are the other areas of your life right now that you're not as focused and there's no shame in it? Then we get to ask the question since it's the time of year where it's time to set our goals. It's time to cast that vision for the future.

It's to ask the question, how do I feel about that? What do I need to do differently? That's the purpose of this. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on, everybody?

This is David Green. Your host of the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. And I'm here today with Mindy Jensen, the host of the Bigger Pockets. Pockets Money podcast, Mindy. How are you today? David, I am doing lovely today. How is your day? So glad to hear that. I'm dealing with some legal issues that we talked about a little bit. But other than that, my day is doing pretty good all around. We had an amazing conversation today with Jeff Woods, the host of the One Thing podcast and goal-setting extraordinaire. So on today's show, we're actually bringing in two Bigger Pocket members who attended the One Thing.

goal setting retreat and they're going to share what they learned, how they formed their partnership, what they've been up to since then. And then Jeff sort of dives deep and helps us figure out really where their business could be headed and how to get in alignment with their goals. Would you like to share what your favorite parts of today's show were? Oh, I like the way that he looks at goal setting a little bit differently. I have always thought of goal setting. And I think a lot of people are like me, what is the goal? What do I want to accomplish? And that's not really where he's looking at this. He is looking at what does this goal do for you?

Not what do you want to accomplish, but what can you get out of this goal? And one of the things he says is the purpose of the goal is not the result. That was really eye-opening. I think that he has a very interesting way of looking at the way that you set goals. And clearly he is exceeding on all levels. and he is definitely somebody who is an absolute thought leader in the space of setting goals, which can be really, really important in your whole life. I mean, we talk about how life can just drag you along and setting goals and being intentional

is the way that you take control of your life. Yeah. And that's going to lead us to today's quick tip for everyone listening here. It's very simple. Ask yourself, what are your values and how have you strayed away from them? So we know that we're operating by the values that are important to us, in my opinion, when we feel alive. When you're full of that fire and you are full of sort of this optimistic energy that wants to charge forward and make things happen, life feels light when you're living by your values. When you're living by somebody else's values, it often feels heavy and you feel sluggish and there's a resistance to what you're doing.

So Brandon Turner often has that phrase, follow the fire. I believe you've sent me a couple of those T-shirts. I should put one of those on on the next show. I love those shirts. The follow your fire t-shirt, the best way to find your fire is to find your goals. Now, as far as the word fire, this will end the quick tip here, but Mindy, can you tell us a little about what fire means in your community? In my community, fire means financial independence, retire early.

Retire early is what fire means, but there's been a lot of talk about how you don't retire to do nothing. You retire to your best life. when you get money out of the way, you can concentrate on your goals and you're not trading your time for money anymore. You now can go out and live your best life, which means you can live by your value. So this is very, very important. And you will see if you listen to today's show, just how finding direction is usually the result of getting clear on what you value and what you want. And then everything else kind of falls into place after that. A lot of people make that mistake. And I think when you

don't know what your value is, you tend to follow somebody else's path. You say, what's Mindy investing in? Okay, I'm going to go invest in that. What's Brandon doing? Okay, I'm going to go do mobile home parks, because that's what Brandon does. And you follow somebody else's path and you're not always going to be happening. You're definitely not going to fill fire. So ask yourself, what are your values? And if you don't know, today's episode is just for you. Also, I would highly encourage you if you're the type of person who likes attending events, or maybe even if you're not to consider going to the one thing retreat that Jeff talks about on today's show. So I'm going to go ahead and let us get into that. I mean, is there anything that you like to add before we bring in Jeff?

You know, I want to say that the one thing retreat while it is in person is also a virtual retreat and is being recorded. So if November 13th and 14th doesn't work into your schedule, you can still attend the retreat. And what we got out of Jeff today really makes me excited to attend this retreat. If you'd like more information about the retreat that Jeff talks about on this episode, you can find that at biggerpockets.com slash one. That's biggerpockets.com slash o'n. And the retreat is perfect if you want to sign up for your partner, your spouse, your team, or if you want to attend by yourself. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes

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Mr. Jeff Woods, welcome back to the Bigger Pockets podcast. How are you today? Delightful, David. Thank you for having me. Yeah. So in our first conversation with you, we had you dig into speaking with some of our other guests and sort of giving them some clarity direction on how they could set goals for themselves or how they could be more efficient. What's been going on in your world since that initial conversation? You know, when you and I spoke last year, it was middle of the pandemic. You know, bottom line, I think every person who's listening to this is in a very different place today than they were a year ago or 18 months ago.

And one of the things that I heard from a friend of ours named Keith Cunningham, what stops us from reinventing ourselves is an attachment to the way things used to be. I think a lot of us, the pandemic, taught us that we had beliefs that we knew to be true. We have to go to an office. We have to do things this way. And the pandemic forced people to let go of the way things used to be, to imagine what could become. And for us, it's been the same thing from, I moved to Denver, Colorado, because I took

our company virtual and I wanted to be closer to the bigger pockets family, aka the mountains. And also just what our business model is, we got so much more clear on why we do what we do and who we need to be serving. And we've just gone all in and narrowing our focus and companies doubled in the last 12 months, which is awesome. Mindy, I'm going to ask the same question to you. What's been going on in your world? It has been quite a last 18 months.

I think it's lasted six years so far. Right before the pandemic started, we bought our latest live-in flip, and we have been trying to juggle that with becoming teachers. We homeschooled our children, not by our choice. And that was a real treat. But we are coming out on the other side of it, and things are looking up. Actually, when I was listening, re-listening to episodes. 411. I'm like, you know, I really need to start having goals and being intentional with my

living instead of letting life kind of drag me by. I have not had any goals. I have had tasks. I have had a to-do list. And that was actually really, really, really helpful. And Scott and I interviewed Ramit Satie on Monday. And that episode comes out in a couple of weeks. And that also really helped me start thinking, you know what, I've got to make a big shift in my life. So it's been an eye-opening last couple of 18 months. How about you, David? Let's throw it back to you. What's been going on with you? Well, where do I start? This has actually been a very busy year. So when I started the year, I thought that growing the David Green team was going to be the main primary goal. I've sort of shifted from there. We're still doing great, but I don't put as much energy into

the hiring and training of agents as I was before. I started the one brokerage, which is basically like a mortgage company that can also do insurance that we use to help people with financing real estate. We really put a lot of effort into solving the problem of people like me that can't get more conventional loans or that their debt to income doesn't support buying additional property because as we talk to people on bigger pockets about making wise investments, you often sort of run yourself off the track of I could just get a traditional loan to buy houses. I bought some properties for myself. I bought a couple in Hawaii. I bought a triple net property in Minneapolis. I'm looking to sell some of my southern properties and 1031 those into some

bigger properties. I'm expecting a lot of inflation to be coming our way with the way that the Fed is just printing money like crazy. So I've basically taken a more aggressive, offensive stance towards wealth building right now, as opposed to where I was before, I was kind of sitting back and waiting for opportunities to cross my path and jump on the right ones. I'm now being intentional about looking to go hire loan officers for our company, get better loan products, buy more properties for myself, do more meetups where I can share this information with other people. So I think that's been the biggest change for me this year is that I've taken a more aggressive approach. Jeff, I don't know if you heard the word intentional from both David and I. That was not intentional. We didn't plan this

in advance. We both said we want to be more intentional with our plans and the way that we're living our lives. And I think that's, I think that's very interesting. Good job, David. If only that were the purpose of this episode. Yeah, it's almost like it was meant to be. So, Jeff, you're sort of the expert, at least in my world that I think of when I think about goal setting, you and Jay Papazana. I know you two have a relationship. So that's not a surprise that that's the case. Tell me what's on your heart when it comes to the advice you want to give people about when they should be intentional, when they should let life come to them, and really how to maximize efficientness when it comes to achieving what our goals are. We have a very strong opinion when it comes to this. And it's shared

through the lens of our guidance is for people who want to achieve extraordinary results. We are not for people who want good results, average results, great results. We speak to people who want, we speak to people who want to actually live an extraordinary life personally and professionally. If that is you, which I know it's a lot of BP listeners, just because you're investing your time listening to the show, now is the time. Here's the reality, though. And this applies to me too. We have times in our life where we are living by default and we have times in our life

where we are living by design. There are times in our life where things happen in our lives and we have to react. whether they're happening to us or for us. And there are times in our life where we say, no, I am not good with my current circumstances. Here is where I want to be. I'm going to get clear on what matters to me. And I'm going to put a plan in place. And I'm going to start to take focused action toward that.

It's kind of like a roller coaster up and down. We ebb and flow between those two. And I think this is the purpose of this episode, is to challenge people to ask the question. if I were to look at my life over the last six months or the last year, where was I purposeful or intentional? Where was I really getting clarity and where I want to be, putting that plan into place, taking focused action, purposeful action to get where I want to go? And where was I kind of just going through life and seeing where life took me? It's not right or wrong, but the question is, how can you become more purposeful in the area,

is that matter. I love that you're mentioning this because it's my opinion that a lot of people listening to podcasts like this are at different times in their life, different headspaces, different emotional states. You're not always in conquer mode, but you're often listening to people telling their story of when they were in conquer mode, right? You're not hearing people get on a podcast to talk about the great cup of coffee that they had that morning and how soothing it was to look out their window and see their favorite plant blooming or whatever. And if you're not in conquer mode and you're listening to someone who goes out there and they talk like they're putting the world on fire. It's very easy to think that that is how every other human being

operates all the time, especially if you're listening to a lot of podcasts or a lot of YouTube where that's what people get on there to talk about, right? And that makes sense because I don't necessarily want to hear somebody get on a podcast all the time and talk about how, you know, they caught every green light to work that day and it was really nice and that's all that there was. I want to hear the stories that are inspirational, but that is not how life is all the time. None of us are at a dead sprint constantly. And my fear would be, if you hear this and you think this is how everyone is living life all the time, you'll feel shame. You'll feel guilt. You'll get this thought like, I should be doing more. And because I am not doing more, I am a failure and I shouldn't even get

into this whole real estate investing thing or financial freedom or whatever it is. Each of you, what are your thoughts on that perspective? Ladies first. I say preach, David. I'm sitting here thinking to myself. I have to pump my arms because I have been in that position. You know, life can be overwhelming. Life will throw things at you whether you're ready to catch it or not. And sometimes it catches you on the side of the head. This is actually kind of spot on for me this week. Both my daughter and my husband tested positive for COVID. I've had to kind of change what I was planning on doing and focus on that right now. And I am also in a place where earlier this week, I'm like, I have to set goals. I am ready to set goals.

And everything that you're saying, I think needs to be taken in the context of when you're ready to set goals, you can go and be the achiever and the aggressive go-getter. But when you're not in a headspace to set those goals, it doesn't mean that you won't ever be in the headspace to set those goals. Think about it. You know, I know I want to accomplish something. I'm listening to this podcast. I am encouraged to do these things. Now is not the right time. Great.

Put a pin in it. Go back. Put a calendar invite in a week, in a month. Talk to yourself in the future and say, hey, are you ready to set these goals now? It needs to be something that you're ready to do. But when you're ready to do it, you need to sit down and make a plan. And it's not just a five minute, okay, boom, I'm done. It's kind of an ever-evolving thing.

But I really, really, really, really like what you're saying, David. Not everybody has to be in that space every minute of every day. And I think that there is a lot of shame surrounding that when you're not in that space. I had a unique perspective as you were talking, David, which is, you know, I'm the face of the one thing. I'm the poster child for it. And even as you're speaking, I'm thinking of the various areas in my life, whether it be my spirituality, my physical health, my personal life, my key relationships, my job inside organization, our business overall, my finances. There are certain areas right now that I am incredibly purposeful and focused in taking action.

And there are some areas right now that I am not. And I think it's important for people to understand that you're a whole person. There are things that matter professionally. There are things that matter personally. You cannot be purposeful in all areas at all time. This is the fifth lie of productivity. It's the lie of balanced life. It's not that you are perfectly balanced.

You are constantly balancing, which means you are out of, balance. So right now I am heavily focused on the business side, on the wealth building side, on the personal relationship side, but I have been less purposeful in my health, in my workout routine, in my diet and exercised the last three or four months than I was in the prior year. I have gone out of balance. So my question for you who's listening to this is, where in your life right now are you being really purposeful? Are you focused? And where are the other areas of your life right now that you're not as focused and there's no shame in it then we get to ask the question since it's the time of year where it's time to set our goals it's time to cast that

vision for the future it's to ask the question how do i feel about that what do i need to do differently that's the purpose of this yeah what i love about that is oftentimes the answer is somewhere in your own gut or your subconscious whatever you want to call it it knows where you're needed you're not coming through for your family, you're not coming through for your friends, you're not coming through in your fitness, whatever it may be. When you don't take that minute to just be quiet and listen, it's easy to miss, right? Like oftentimes it speaks in a whisper, but that next deal coming at you or the next seminar or a webinar you need to take or the next podcast intro is a shout. It is screaming at you. Listen to me, pay attention to me, do what I'm doing. And I know that during COVID,

a lot of people had those shouts sort of taken away. There was less things screaming at us as we had to shelter in place. And the world that we had been living in was kind of shaken up and all the pieces fell together different. So I'm curious, Jeff, if you could share a little perspective on how you saw that affect people and what shouts they listen to and what whispers they heard. So here's what's interesting? Wow. What percent of the people that listen to the show do you think have a day job? Like they work for a company and they're looking to invest in real estate on the

side. It's not their profession yet. That's the vast majority. I would guess 80 to 90%. Okay. So if you used to go to an office, you're used to having distractions of people swinging by and asking, hey, do you got a minute? When pandemic hit, all of a sudden, that went away. All of a sudden, when you were bored in between meetings or tasks, instead of walking around and chatting with people that you may or may not actually care that much about, you were hanging out with your family. That was a silver lining. On the flip side, a whole new set of challenges occurred. And this is from, we work with some of the largest companies in the world on their future of work strategy and what that's going to look like.

The number of emails across the board went through the roof. The number of meetings actually went up. The number of hours that people were working actually went through the roof because no longer did they have a drive to or from the office. They had no delineation between professional and personal. So these are different challenges that happened. the problem is there were a lot of people that said, oh, this is only going to last for three weeks. This is only going to last for a month. This is only going to last for a quarter.

Well, it's lasted a lot longer. And a lot of people have normalized a way of working and living that is not going to help them live a life that they're proud of. A lot of people have normalized new habits that will actually lead toward regret. So this is the, the time to actually pause and say, okay, whatever's happened over the last year to 18 months, I have to actually have a conversation with myself and the people I do life with on what is important to me? How do I want to be living? And how do I view my time as an investment that I hold accountable to delivering a return and not something that I have to spend or kill? Yeah, that entire way that we frame this conversation is work life balance. And that implies there's work and then there's life and you got

I go between them. But COVID really blurred the lines between those. What is work and what is life at that point? So I'm curious, Mindy, what was that experience like for you where you're now working at home where life typically takes place? So I had actually been working from home two days a week and working in the office two days a week. So it just now I'm at home all the time, which is great. I can start work earlier. I get up in the morning. I can get some quiet time in while I drink my coffee and check my work email and do my work things. And all of a sudden, I went from working eight hours a day to probably more like 10 or 12 hours a day because at the end of the day, my kids were still home. They were home the whole day. I didn't have to go pick them up. I didn't have to do anything because

everybody was here. I want to say in the last four or five months have intentioned. I eventually had to stop working on purpose in order to go have a work-life balance. And that is, I'm still getting up early and drinking my coffee while I check my email. But I'm stopping when the girls come home from school and I'm going out to be mom instead of Mindy for Bigger Pockets. And it crept up on me because at first you're like, oh, I just have one more thing to do. I will always have one more thing to do. There is no shortage of anything. And I'm not trying to diss my own job.

I love it. I think it's important. But I'm not performing brain surgery. I can stop today. And I can start answering questions about real estate and talking about money tomorrow. And the world will keep on revolving. So I think it's really hard for people to make that delineation. And if you're not intentional with that stop, and it's a hard stop. It has to be just, I answered that email. I'm getting up and leaving. Yeah, I'm always going to have more emails in my inbox. I'm always going to have something else to do. So stop and continue on. David, how did you stop it? You know, I'm sort of hesitant to say this because I don't want it to sound crass.

The pandemic was one of the best things that ever happened for my personal life and my work life. I started eating way better because I wasn't driving from appointment to appointment and trying to get fast food in between the busyness of everything. I drive all over Northern California constantly. And when we got to a point where sellers were okay to do a Zoom call or went over their house and they sent us a video of what it looked like. That's all I needed. I mean, when you know how the numbers of real estate work and you have professionals that can do stuff, it's very similar to my long distance investing concept where the photographer will show up at your house and they will

tell me what needs to be put in place so that this can work. I don't actually have to go see it, but the clients, they like that. They like you to go look at the house and COVID kind of handle that problem for me. Now they're not expecting me to be there. I still had people, We were still working. We just worked out of my house because the offices were all shut down. And it created a better relationship and communication between all the parties. We were right there next to each other. There was this camaraderie that was developed, like we're in the foxhole together.

We watched our production go up while a lot of other people's went down. It gave a lot of confidence to the people on my team that I was the right leader to be leading them. I was able to exercise because I was at home. So when I would just get like stressed out from a client, I would just go for a run or I'd go do pullups. outside or I'd go. It was in the summertime so I could go get sunshine. And then when my body was tired from exercising, I could come back in and my mind had a chance to rest. So like my productivity actually increased because I didn't sit there and try to like work out the tired part of my body or my mind all the time. When I was tired of analyzing things, I would get on the phone

and talk to clients and have a conversation where emotions were more involved. So from my perspective, the pandemic was actually very helpful. And I'm hesitant to say that because for the majority of people, I don't think it was. I think it shook people up. I think it created a lot of pain and I really want to be sensitive towards that. But what is important to take from it is that it exposed what we were doing on autopilot that we assumed was normal, whether that was good or not. If you were not living intentionally, you had no way of knowing that you weren't living intentionally because you get up, you drink your coffee, you go on your commute, you go to the office, you punch in. You may do nothing of use the entire time, but you get paid for eight hours. Then you drive back home. You told yourself, I'm done with work. Now I start

life, you do whatever. This really just erased all those lines, right? It was kind of like the matrix. Like you thought you were living in a normal world and now you're born into a new world and you really have to look at it. And that's where I think conversations like this are so helpful to people because really none of that world was real. It was just what we were used to. Right. Creating the life you want is about intention. It usually doesn't happen to you. And something like this really exposed that. Jeff, I saw that you look like you had some insight to offer there. What stops us from reinventing ourselves is an attachment to the way things used to be. We were attached to a way of thinking, a way of behaving.

And this gave us the, it forced many of us to reinvent how we do what we do. And there are many of us listening this who are saying there are certain things that I'm not going to go back to the old way because I have discovered an even better way. That's just what's sticking with me. So how does somebody discover the even better way? How can somebody start like maybe from six months ago who was like, oh, I get up in the morning and I'm putting in 12 hour days? I probably a bit of a different position. I get to talk to a lot of different people who talk about goals.

And I mean, you'd think something would have sucked sooner. Yeah. One, we're going to get to see an example of this later with Jordan and John. But this is part of our process that we walk through in the goal setting retreat that we facilitate. At the core of the one thing is the skill of asking big questions and searching for big answers. Now, big questions are questions that you get asked and you have to stop and go, huh, great question. And a lot of people don't know how to search for the answer. They hit the wall of, I don't know. Here's a perfect one. What would an extraordinary life look like in 20 years?

go. Most people would say, I don't know, but they stop the search. We have to first, foremost, understand you have to search for the answer. So part of this process is before we even talk about the goals that you want to set, we have to go deeper. We have to understand what your values are. Why do you do what you do? Every single one of us, there's an author called Jonathan, named Jonathan Haidt. He wrote a book called The Happiness Hypothesis. And And in it, he writes about the rider and the elephant. And it's, you can imagine a little kid sitting on top of the big elephant going for a ride. And imagine if the kid had a stick and he taps the elephant's right ear and the elephant goes right.

He taps the elephant's left ear. The elephant goes left. Who's really? Who's in charge? Yet if the kid tapped the elephant's right ear and the elephant went left, you'd realize who is actually in charge. It's the elephant. There's nothing that kid can do about it. Every single one of us has a rider and an elephant.

Our rider is our logical mind. It's the goals that we set. It's the things we say we're going to do. Yet our elephant is our purpose and our core values. And whether you realize what your purpose and values are or not, they're actually there. You have a top three core values that drive every decision you make. Every one of us knows what it feels like to make a decision that lights us up. They're in alignment with your values.

and every one of us knows what it feels like to make a decision that is out of alignment with our values because you feel the conflict. But if you don't know what your values are, you cannot make great decisions. So the first part is to understand what the heck your values are. We have a simple process for that. And once you have that, you then cast the vision for someday. You can figure out 10 years, 20 years, however far that is.

and you genuinely start to search for the answer. Like, Mindy, I guarantee if I ask you, you know, in 10 years, what would extraordinary finances look like? And if you sat down with a pen and a piece of paper and really searched, you could come up with some ideas. What would extraordinary relationships look like? Imagine the relationships with your kids in 10 or 20 years. Describe it. What would it look like? If you gave yourself the space, you could come up with answers.

You do this for the various areas of your life. and all of a sudden you have a lot of things that you could turn into goals. But we know that everything does not matter equally. You look at all the things you could focus on and you ask the question, what are the ones, the few, that if I really focused on these would make the biggest impact for me, and you reverse engineer that and work them backwards to goals that you can focus on for the next year and take action against on a monthly and weekly basis. And you'll be blown away at how much you can.

accomplish. What goes through your head, Mindy, when you hear that? I have some work ahead of me. And I am excited for that work. I am at a place where this is something that I want. This is something that I have time to focus on. And this is something that I will be able to accomplish because I'm going to be giving myself time. Like I said, before, I haven't been intentional with my time. Life has kind of been pulling me along. And, you know, life will pull you along. Life is what, what is that quote? Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans. Life is going to just pull you along until you focus and tell life where you want to go. And you said something that's really important there, Mindy, you said, I'm going to make the time.

For you who's listening to this, if I talk about, you know, your top, knowing your top three core values, having clarity on life someday from now and being able to take based on that, here's what I need to accomplish in five years. Here's what I got accomplished in the next 12 months. This drives a lot of focus on what I have to do and by the end of this month, which means this is what has to be on my calendar this week. If you cannot draw that line, by the way, zero judgment. Yet I would ask, if I followed you around with a camera for the last three months, how much time would we see you having invested in seeking that clarity? The answer is probably none or very little. And again, zero judgment. But your actions drive your results. If you want different results,

We have to change your actions, which means, frankly, we got to start seeing things shift on your calendar. You need to start blocking time for these types of questions and searching for those answers. You know, I think the vast majority of us, I think the default of human nature is to let the elephant carry us where it's going to carry us and make the most of wherever we go. So some of us grow up in homes where we have parents that do a better job than others of helping train our elephants. And so we end up on a path that will lead us more likely to prosperity or better or better relationships or more emotional control. Others of us don't have parents or our parents had crazy elephants or we had good parents, but other things came up in life that affected our elephant.

And it keeps taking us into like the part of the jungle where all the tigers are. You just keep doing self-sabotaging behavior. There's probably all kinds of scenarios we could list. But the point is, we don't think it's our responsibility to train that elephant. We just go with where it goes and we take what comes our way. Is what you're talking about here, Jeff, ways that you can take control of that elephant and make it go where you intentionally would like it to. It's the opposite.

Okay. It's not controlling the elephant. It's controlling the rider. Your elephant is your core values. You don't get to pick them. They are. When people do this exercise to identify their values, oftentimes they feel pulled to choose aspirational values. Like this, I want this to be a value of mine.

I wish this was a value of mine. I feel guilty that this is not a value of mine. That's family for a lot of people. They want to say family is one of their values, but it's actually not one of the top three. Your values are your values. The question is, how do you train your rider, your logical mind to set goals that are in alignment with your values, to make choices that are in alignment with your values, to seek opportunities that are in alignment with your values. And this is huge because one of the biggest places

that people spend or invest their time is their J-O-B. More time in their professional life than they do with their family. But most people have never actually paused and asked, is what I do professionally in alignment with my values. Like my top three are growth, recognition, and impact. Is my job aligned with those? It actually is because I've been very purposeful in designing a role where every day I live my values. It's why you hear the passion in my voice.

I am growing every day. I have recognition. It's not like Jeff high five or kudos, but having this type of conversation is recognition for me. And the impact, this lights me up. I'm on fire right now. So, but that has been intentional. Because once I knew what my core values were, then I had a conversation with Jay Papazam, my partner,

about how do I bring the most value to our organization while making sure they are in alignment with my values? We have been very purposeful in scripting that role. And then me hiring people to take the things off my plate that are not in alignment with my values. So it's more about focusing on the rider. It's focusing on you having clarity on what your values are and then making sure that you choose goals and take actions that are in alignment with them. What do you think about that, Mindy?

Does your brain hurt yet? I think that you're kind of inside my brain. Like, did you, did you read my mind while I was, while I was getting ready this morning? It's really, but also I'm in a place where I am not only ready to take action. I've found the time to sit down and take action. You haven't found the time you've prioritized it. Oh, oh, that's good. You and I have the same 24 hours in the day.

Yes, we do. It's just a matter of are you making it a priority or not. I'll tell you something I do not make a priority. Email. I'll tell you another thing I do not make a priority. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. Don't do it. It's not a 20% activity that is going to drive 80% plus of my results.

not to say that I don't ever check email or go on social media, but if you followed me around with the camera, you would not see that being a meaningful part of my life. What do you prioritize? My 20%. I am clear that, and when I say my 20%, I mean the 20% things I can do that drive 80% of the results. And I am so clear, our definition of a job description

is not everything that you have to do. It's the two to three things you have to do exceptionally well or you should be fired from your role. And as the president of this company, I have three priorities. Casting a vision, driving revenue, and being an ambassador of the brand. So having this conversation checks number three. And if you looked at my calendar, you would actually see it's color-coded. Over 80% of my work week is invested in 20% priorities that drive 80% of the results.

Yes, I still check email. Yes, I still go to some team meetings. Yes, I still have to like check some people's work from time to time. That's my, that's 80% stuff, but that's the minority of my time. And I'm going to say, this has been a journey. I've been living the one thing for six years. I've gotten here over time. It's not like I listen to a podcast episode or read the book and boom, the next day,

my calendar switched. It happened over time. But you said something, Mindy, that I think. I think that really resonated with me. You said you sip your coffee and you check your email. I remember it was six years ago because it was my first month on the job. I remember my alarm going off in the morning. I remember snoozing a bunch of times.

And once it was time to wake up, I remember checking my email while still in bed. And I remember you ever had one of those emails that you open it and it's a bomb? And you're like, oh, I can't deal with this right now and you market is unread. That happened to me. I got out of bed and I remember being with my kids for breakfast, but I wasn't with my kids. I was still thinking about that email. And it hit me so hard that when I wake up and check email first thing, it occupies my mind share and steals my focus and my presence from the people and the priorities that matter most.

And so my very first habit that I formed with this company was to check my 411 before I checked my email. a 411 is a tool we have that gives you clarity on your priorities for the year of the month and the week personally and professionally. Before I even earned the right to open my inbox, I had to look at a sheet of paper that showed me my priorities were. And here's what was interesting, Mindy, is when the moment I looked at my priorities, I felt compelled to start knocking that first domino down. And when I started having clarity on the thing that matters most and taking action on the thing that matters most, first thing in the day, I stopped our artificially inflating the importance of my inbox.

I discovered that my most important priorities do not live in my inbox. And if it happens to be in there, it's usually followed up with a phone call. So I didn't check my email till later in the day. And then I hired an executive assistant who her job is to check email. The things I need to see, I have two folders I check. A four today folder and a four this week. I just check the today folder. And there's maybe two or three emails in there a day that I need to see and respond to.

every and I don't need to do anything else with my inbox now. Yeah, I would imagine that type of clarity makes it pretty easy, comparatively speaking, when it comes to what jobs you're going to take on, what responsibilities you're going to move forward with, what tasks are appropriate. It helps avoid that analysis paralysis that so many people fall into when they don't have that clarity of where you're going. People love to call real estate passive income, which is interesting because most of the investors I know are very busy.

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Their protection against small mistakes turning into big losses. And that matters more than ever in this economy. That's why I like Mind. Unlike other property managers, Mind manages your property like an investment. They obsessively measure the things that matter for your bottom line. Things like occupancy, delinquency, and net promoter score, and they have the results to prove it. Go to mine.co slash show me to see how mine performs and get your first month free, which is much cheaper than learning the hard way. We have a treat for our BP listeners today because we've got two guess that Jeff is going to interview that are going to share what they've done in their business and in their personal life since first being introduced to this concept of intentional goal setting.

And then maybe if we're lucky, Jeff can sort of walk them through what the future will look like and what their next steps will be. So without further ado, Jordan, John, welcome to the podcast. How are you two today? Doing great. Thanks for having us on. Well, thank you. Yeah. Jeff, I'm going to let you take it away. Yeah. So Jordan, John, why don't you give us the high level, 20% of what you do professionally. So what we do professionally, John and I own a home buying business

where we find and purchase single family homes. We do the Burr strategy that David Green talks about in his book, but we do that as a business. And we have separate businesses that we do on our own. Together, that is our primary business buying homes in Louisville. I love that. I love that. And Jordan, I know last year you attended our one thing goal setting retreat for couples and individuals. John, you did or were not a part of that last year? I was not a part of that last year. So Jordan, you did it with your girlfriend? Yeah, we lost it.

Absolutely loved it. So I'm curious, what was going on in your life when you heard the idea of the one thing goal setting retreat that made you say, we should actually look at this this year? So I think we have similar goals, but we weren't 100. aligned on how we were going to get there and exactly what we were working towards. So my girlfriend and I saw it, thought, hey, you know, this could be great for us. We did it and absolutely just loved every minute of it. We signed up for the in-person version this year.

Oh, you're coming? Oh, yeah, absolutely. See you there, man. Yeah, I'm excited. Most people, so there's two tracks. There's a track for couples. There's a track for individuals. Most people listening to this who have a significant other, one is a goal setter and one is not.

That's the norm. Are you both goal setters or is one of you not as much? I am an intense goal setter and have been for a long time. I'm very focused on my goals. So it gets hard for me when I'm only focused on the goals and forget about everything else. What about her? Would she classify herself as a goal setter? She absolutely is and she's growing into more of ones.

We've been together for the last few years. Did you guys have any doubts going into it or any question marks? Oh, absolutely. We had question marks, but we were up for the challenge and we're really excited to do it. What were some of them? I think the biggest ones were, are we not going to be aligned on where we want to go? And is this going to make things uncomfortable or difficult? And it did the exact opposite.

Tell me more. We were able to implement. We do a monthly life dinner. We go over our goals all the time. but when we went through the couple's goal setting retreat process, we actually realized that we're a lot more aligned than we would have ever thought. And it was because of the questions that were asked. The questions were so insightful and just hit you right in the right spot

that you never think about on your own. And of course, there's, we were a little surprised by how many paperwork, how much paperwork there was and how many things we were going to have to fill out. But we really enjoyed that nonetheless. On Mindy, this goes back to what we were saying earlier about it. The foundation of the one thing is asking questions and searching for answers. Most people don't have the right questions so they don't search for them. That is a really good point.

How do I know what to ask if I don't know what to ask? Mm-hmm. And where this came from is so my partner, Jay Papazan, he and his wife, Wendy, have been doing this for over 15 years. And the first year, they just got out of their house, they got a babysitter for the kids, and they just sat down for a weekend and asked questions. How is our marriage? What do we want out of life? What do we need to focus on when it comes to our kids? What do we need to focus on when it comes to our parents who are getting older? How's our sex life? Oh my gosh, dare I ask that? But they asked questions and had honest conversations. And over a decade, you know, you start to put some framework behind this and some process and you really make it a well-oiled machine. And like you're saying, Jordan, you guys end up having some amazingly rich conversations where you realize it's not actually about us having the same. same answer. It's about alignment. What matters to Jordan? Jordan, what's your girlfriend's

name? Jessica. What matters to Jessica? And how can you validate that you hear that this matters to Jessica? Jessica hears that it matters to you, Jordan, and that you support one another. Earlier this week, Gary Keller was doing a mastermind. And he drew something out that just blew my mind. He said, here's the problem in a relationship. Opposites attract because they completely you. But by definition of them being an opposite, they're naturally going to drive you crazy. And the problem is, is that person one tries to get person two to change to be more like them. And person two is trying to get person one to change to be more like them versus you stepping back and asking, how do we honor the essence of what makes you you and expand the kind of life that we can

live together? And that's really what this is about. I'm curious, Jordan, what was a goal that the two of you set that deep down, you weren't sure if you'd even be able to achieve it and you guys crushed it in the last year? So I think our goal in the last year had a lot of, how a lot to do with us coming together to achieve our personal goals. She wanted to buy another rental property. It seemed a little out of reach and I was absolutely able to do a lot of help with that. I'm a real estate agent. And I had some goals financially and physically. I'm in the best shape of my life now that we were able to support each other in.

Yeah, we've crushed those goals. So I really liked that we were able to come together. And I love what you were talking about, how opposites attract. We're very, very different. And that's great. But we had a different idea of how our lives were going to go. I love that. But now we see how those can work together and how it can be harmonious.

rather than be very different. Yeah, I love that. What was something that surprised you going through this process? I think a lot of how personal the questions were. You talked about stuff about sex life and just from really personal questions about family and about values that we had, I like you also said, you wouldn't think to ask these questions. We would never think to talk about that stuff.

we just assumed or just said, hey, this is how I feel. I'm not going to talk about it. But when it's written down and you need to answer that question on those sheets, it comes out and it might be way more aligned than you would have ever thought, but I would have never thought to ask the question. Isn't it kind of interesting how the person who's supposed to be your life partner you feel you can't ask questions too? We all feel that way.

It's so interesting. Minnie, were you going to say something? I was just going to reiterate what you said earlier. You don't have to have the same goals. You just need to be in alignment. And I keep hearing that from Jordan as well. I think that can be kind of a block for some people. Oh, I want to go to this goal setting retreat or I want to sit down and have,

have a conversation about goals. But the last time we talked about it, like you said, opposites attract. The last time we talked about it, we were so off. How off are you really if you're together? I mean, one person isn't going to say, I want to live in poverty for the rest of my life, while the other person says, I want to be the richest person in the world. Your goals, if you're together, I don't think that your goals are going to be that far off that you can't find alignment. But like Jordan said, you have to ask really personal questions.

And that's difficult. I've been married for almost 20 years. There's still some things that we don't talk about on a real regular basis. Goals is one of them, although we are getting there. I heard something this morning from one of our corporate clients. he was talking about leadership, but it totally applies to marriage and relationships. You aren't compatible or not compatible with someone. Compatibility is something that's created.

You have to create compatibility. You have to focus on it. And Mindy, you've been married for 20 years. What's the key to a successful marriage? It's one word. Conversations and communication. Yeah. I've also heard compromise.

Right? And at the end of the day, it's about understanding what matters to you, them understanding what matters to me, and being able to ask the question, how do I validate that I see you, I hear you, how do I support you where it matters most? How do you support me? And how do we have our shared goals? The other thing I think we need to acknowledge is the fact the vast majority are listening to this. If you have a significant other, the other one is not a goal setter. Let me tell you what not to do. Do not say, honey, do you want to go to a couple's goal setting retreat this year? I would not, I would not. I would. not ask that question. A different approach is to say, hey, I care about you. And I've realized, I'm not 100% clear on how I can be the best partner to you because I don't actually, I'm not clear on what you want over the long term. And I don't think I've done a good enough job of communicating what matters to me. So I want to do a better job of supporting you next year. I hope you can do a better job of supporting me. And I want to take a weekend where we get out of our normal environment and we get to know each other better. And so this next year, we can be

even better partners to one another. That's how you position it. John, what's your experience been like working with Jordan? It's been good. So Jordan and I actually knew each other from high school. And he moved away like probably when he was 18 or 17. And we kind of disconnected and we connected back up. I actually was doing some investments in Louisville, just starting out with single-family rentals. And long story short, we rekindled that relationship. And to circle back around, it's been good. I've known Jordan a long time. And he's, it's been good. We have kind of a system in place where Jordan's location is in Austin, Texas. Mine's in Louisville, Kentucky. And we have a system where the communication is good, but we've been working to make it better

because Jordan is rarely here. So he's doing a lot of the marketing and the calling and the setting up appointments. And I'm doing the more physical meetings in person and closings and things like that. I don't know if that answer your question or not, though. Well, I think a lot, that was very practical. I think a lot of people are more comfortable starting a partnership with someone they know. So their first thought is to go to their friend, go to a family member, go to somebody who they already have a pre-existing relationship with.

I'm curious if you guys think it worked easier because you knew each other or if maybe you had to be extra intentional because now there's actually a relationship at risk if things go wrong. Like what were some of the pros and the cons of working with someone that you already know? Yeah. So I'll start. John and I had known each other for a very long time. But we hadn't really talked that much for about 10 years until we started. We started talking about a year before this.

He was doing some real estate investing in Louisville. I was actually also doing some real estate investing in Louisville. And we floated the idea around. But I think both of us are very conservative and cautious people. And we wanted to make sure we were on the same page. So before we even got into the partnership, we set some goals. We talked about where we wanted to go. And we put this all down in writing.

We had an attorney put an operating agreement together. We both signed it. And then we started buying our first houses. But yeah, we were both cautious about getting into a partnership because in the past, we've only done this on our own. I'm curious, we've only kind of taken the couple's angle so far. But it's actually about setting goals with the people you do life with, whether in this case, now we're talking to you two as partners as business partners.

As you look back, what were the things that inherently you think partnerships lack that this type of approach or methodology provides? I think a lot of what partnerships lack are people with two different skill sets. I see that all the time. Hey, we're both really good at doing this thing. Let's join together as partners. Like John said, we know each other very well. And that did help me have some insight to know what he's good at. He's great at the details.

I am terrible at the details. I'm great at getting the ball rolling and being the big picture type of guy. He's awesome at making sure nothing slipped through the cracks. So that's why this is a great partnership. It really doesn't have too much to do that we knew each other. Other than we had similar values, similar goals. We actually, John, I don't know if you remember. we first talked about this when we were in our teens. I remember sitting in a yard with him somewhere

and saying, wouldn't it be cool if we could buy houses someday and other people would pay them off? And what do you know, 15, 20 years later, we're now doing that. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. I think it helped reinforce it too because I myself had been purchasing and had experience in real estate and Jordan had been doing real estate for over what? Five years or five years or so. Five years. So we both had a track record of new, but at least got our feet wet in real estate before. So none of us were brand new agreeing to it, which kind of helped reinforce both sides, I feel like. How long have the two of you been in partnership?

It's just a year. Just a year. Just a year. So what are the questions that you have at this point when you think about your partnerships and about how you guys stay on the same page moving forward? The big, and we've been talking about this recently, the big questions aren't, are we going to continue to grow because we know we're going to do that. We know we both have the same goals. We want to do these things. The biggest questions are how are we going to continue to grow?

How are we going to bring other people and build this company into a point where it's not just John and I doing most things? So those are our big questions is how do we set goals to leverage other people? And I think like you're talking about live in the 20 percent and forget about the 80 percent, have other people handle the 80. Well, if we can only, we're kind of turning the tables now to moving forward. If we can only invest our time together focusing on one area, where would it be? Building a business. Okay.

Or structuring the business. Specifically around team? Mm-hmm. Okay. John, would you agree with that? It is. And that's where it's, I would say a struggle, not struggle, but Jordan and I are in different chapters where I have an insurance office in Louisville, Kentucky, a brokerage.

and then I have Jordan and I's partnership, and then I have our three young children. So it's kind of a juggling act like you were talking about earlier. The more time I take away from our insurance brokerage, I've been focusing a good amount of time in our partnership, Jordan and I. So we were talking about this today, having a meeting just about juggling that and what percentage to put where, you know what I mean? Perfect.

Do you guys have a long-term goal for the, organization yet in terms of growth. We do. What is it? So we have a one year end of this year, a next year, and then a five-year goal. At the end of this year, we want to have 25 houses, into next year, 50 houses. And in five years, we want 200 houses. Fast forward and you have 200 houses. Are you going to feel satisfied? Or are you going to look back and think I was thinking too small? That's a great question. My knee-jerk reaction is I'm always going to look back and think I was thinking too small. You're probably right.

But I'd love to hear what John thinks. 200 sounds like a big number, but Jordan and I are pretty aggressive goal planners, I feel like. And we're on pace right now to do 25 our first year of partnership. Let me ask a different question. Fast forward five years. We're having a conversation again. And what you achieved was extraordinary. You shattered what you even perceived to be possible.

What's that number? I think, John, 400 houses? I would say four or 500 would be a mind blower. Okay. Well, let's round it up to 500 just because it's fun and it's a round number. There's something to acknowledge. The purpose of a goal is not the result. It's to be appropriate in the moment.

That goal is a compass to inform how the two of you have to show up and behave in order to be in alignment with the goal. It's less about whether you get to 500 or not. It's about who's the person you become along the way. Here's the first step. If I challenge you to take out a pen and a piece of paper and draw out the org chart that you would need to assemble to have that type of a business, what would that org chart look like? And this exercise is called the ultimate org chart. This is what I learned from Gary Keller. He said, don't show me what your org chart looks today or what it needs to look like this year. I want you to have a longer term vision for the organization of what does the organization look like when it's built out and it's done. Go ahead and cast that org chart. I've got a CEO. I've got a

president. I've got all these VPs. I've got all these directors. I've got all these managers. I'm walking you through our org chart for what ours looks like in 10 years. I can actually visualize it. And then you ask the question, what roles are you Jordan currently playing? And you put your name next to those. John, what roles are you currently playing? Where are you just flat out missing people or the business has not created the demand for that role yet? But here's why this matters. One that gives you vision in terms of who you're looking for. Because one of the first things I heard from Gary is you're not looking for an executive assistant. You're looking for a future CLO who's currently showing up as an EA. You're not looking for a marketing manager. You're looking

for your future CMO who's currently showing up as a marketing manager. That way it forces you to stop looking for somebody who checks the box today, but instead has the growth opportunity to evolve and grow their skill set as the needs of the business evolve. Because what the business needs in phase one is very different than phase two, very different than phase three, very different than phase four. And you want to find empire builders, people that can grow with you. So you ask the 500 units in five years. What does that org chart have to look like? Here's where it gets interesting. Jordan, what do your goals require your role that you occupy to do exceptionally well, the two to three things or you should fire yourself? John, what are the two to three things your goals require

your role to do exceptionally well? you guys get clarity on what your individual job descriptions are, then you can ask the question, who's the one person we are missing? That if we just brought that one person into our world, everything else would be easier or unnecessary. Gary literally said this two days ago. He goes, one of the big,

you want to, if you want to live an extraordinary wealthy life, you need to master two things. Lead generation, in this case it might just be deal flow. and finding the one person. Oprah Winfrey was not Oprah Winfrey until she met Jeffrey Jacobs, her attorney. The Beatles were not Beatles until they met George Martin.

Walt Disney wasn't Walt Disney until he brought his brother Roy Disney in. Oftentimes you're one person away from unlocking an entirely new level of growth. I've gone through this last year. I brought, I fired myself from running the company, brought in a proven executive. The company has doubled. and I have stayed squarely in my vision, growth, and ambassador role. I'm happier than I've ever been. I was missing one person.

So recap, what does the org chart look like when you have 500 houses? Where are you currently playing roles, Jordan? John, where are you currently playing roles? Who are you know you're immediately missing? But then get clarity. What are the two to three things? Your goals require you to do exceptionally well for you to keep your spot. And who's the one person you're missing?

What are their two to three things? Then you start recruiting. You start looking and just go find that one person and make that one hire. And then you look up and say, who's the next person we're missing? And you make that hire. Who's the next person you're missing? Or if you did what I did, I hired one person to come in and it's the last hire I need to make because he's in charge of hiring everybody else.

I like that. You know, I want to ask you guys a question about this as Jeff said, hey, what would it look like if you completely crushed it? You said, well, we'd have 500 homes. And I'm not leading you to an answer. I'm literally asking, do you want to own 500 single family homes in Louisville? We've talked about that. So both John and I feel like in the future, we need to diversify markets. So what that looks like is we have started looking in Texas.

We have a team of people out looking for houses in Texas for us, San Antonio, Austin area. We want to own 500 homes, but we don't want to do all that work. And I know you know, David, single family homes can be a lot of work. So we want a structure an organization that takes care of all that work. Do you know how many people you'll need in that organization? to successfully manage 500 single family homes. We have not gotten that far yet. If you did that and you realize that that's an entire company,

maybe like 10, 15, 20 people that you would need, which is now 10, 15, 20 personalities that have to be managed and people that take resources and energy, would you consider changing the trajectory of what you want your company to look like? Would you maybe get to 100 homes and 1031 into an apartment complex and then start buying another 100? Oh, yeah. we've absolutely talked about that too. I think we made the decision last year to focus on single

family homes because we're finding great deals with single family homes. We had been looking at apartment complexes and we still do every so often. And we just aren't seeing the types of deals we'd like to see. Okay, let me jump in here. So remember what I said the purpose of a goal was to be appropriate in the moment. It's to inform what you have to focus. on how you have to behave. If you had a plethora of opportunities, great deals in single family, but you had equally the same opportunity in apartment, which path would you pursue? I'm going to say apartments, but I'll throw to John too.

John? Yeah, we would. We both own, I think we would both agree that we're looking to get into 30 plus unit apartments because we both have small. We both have smaller eight and under unit apartments individually each. Perfect. Perfect. So this is so good.

A lot of people set their goals based on what they think they can do. And what you perceive you can do is based on your current circumstance. Right now, your deal flow is in single family. So you set a single family goal. That is not the purpose of the goal. The goal is to ask, what does extraordinary look like? And it's, hey, I'd have X number of doors, whether that's a single family home, whether it's an apartment complex, providing X amount of cash flow or Y amount of net worth. Then you can ask the question, how am I going to get there?

Well, right now, the fastest path to building is single family homes. That's where you're finding your deals. And you want to scale that and you want to acquire more and more and more. but ultimately, David asked a great question. Do you actually want to manage or have a team that manages 500 homes? I'm actually hearing maybe not as much. So maybe the whole goal is to get to a hundred so that you can 1031 into your first big building. And then you repeat, you get your next 100 homes.

So you can 1031 and get your next building. So the two of you, like Jordan, I know you're coming back for the retreat this year. John, you're going to be in tow with him. the two of you have to actually ask the question, what does success look like in five years? If it's 500 homes, fine, but I'd ask the question, what does 500 homes do for you? And set the goal more around that and detach yourself from the how.

Detach yourself from the 500. Attach yourself to what the 500 does from you. Then you can start reverse engineering because a completely other opportunity might open up. Maybe it's storage. ownership. Maybe you want to go mobile home park. Who knows? But be open to the paths as, but it's about how do you be appropriate in the moment? What do we need to focus on this year that's going to bring us closer to that longer term vision? And YouTube being on the same page.

It's extra important because like what Jeff is saying, the goal helps you understand who you need to become in order to hit that. And if you want to manage 15 to 20 people, basically have a property management company to help you herd 500 cats, which is what it will feel like when you get 500 single family homes. The skills that each of you need to be working on individually to be successful in that are different than if you want to get to 100, 1031 into an apartment, start over, right? You can do that with a smaller organization. You'll need more people that are analytical. You'll need relationships with brokers. You'll just need to become a different kind of human being to be successful in that goal. And that's why this is so important that we have these

conversations because can you imagine if you said, hey, I'm taking a journey to that destination and you geared up for everything you would need to go there and a third of the way there, you completely change your mind and said, actually, we're going to go there. Now you have to stop and reprovision and ask yourself, do I have the skills that I would need to be good there and maybe set yourself behind? Whereas if you sort of plan this ahead of time, look, we're going to get to a hundred and then we're going to stop and reevaluate. We're going to figure out where do we want to go. It's pretty, you can put a plan into place to get you there much easier than we're We're just going to go and balls out 500 homes.

That's as far as we're going to get to. And that's our only path. And this is why goal setting is so important. It also, I think, brings you the clarity of this is what we want to do. It makes your KPIs, your key performance indicators, that much more clear what you want to do. It helps you understand where you want to be building relationships, right, where the deals are going to flow from. You're going to need a whole lot more handy, many contractors doing single family homes and

if you go after an apartment complex. So this can make you very, very. successful, like much more successful than if you didn't do it. And I think what makes it difficult to do is that you're forced to plan for five years down the road. And it's always easier to just say, what can I do right now that will make me feel better, get me out of the pain that I'm in right now? I'm curious. What have you two learned having this conversation? Oh, that's what I was about to say. You know, I love going to goal setting retreats, going to conferences and getting different perspectives. Because if John and I, all we did was just talking between each other, all that. the time, we might stick to, hey, we just want to hit 500 homes in five years. We're never going to look anywhere else, but just as many houses as we can get. And maybe in five years, when we're managing 500 homes, we're really burnt out and we hate it and we don't like it. And that's a lot of what we were talking about earlier today. I'm like, John, how can we get you to not drive around the city all day? You have a thriving insurance brokerage. You've got three kids and a wife. You've got other

stuff you'd like to do rather than drive around check on job sites. So I love this kind of stuff. Always going to do this. I know I set a lot of steps for you guys, but I'm going to narrow it down to one. How on brand. Fast forward five years. How would you know if you were successful? And it's not just number of units or amount of cash flow, but I want you to describe lifestyle. Like you just punt, John does not want to be driving all around the city and not being with his kids and his wife. That's pretty clear to me now.

The two of you need to do that individually and then share your answers and cast a unified vision for the future. That will then, when you go through the framework again this year, will bring a lot of focus to what you need to focus on in the next 12 months, which will bring immense clear. to what you have to do in the next 30 days, which will inform what your calendar needs to look like

this next week. Well, guys, this has been great. Jordan, John, I want to thank you too for coming on here and sharing what your experience has been like with our listeners as well as the transparency that takes. Jeff, obviously, thank you very much for coming and doing what you do, the one thing. This has been really great. Mind, is there anything you want to add before we start the process of getting out of here? I really appreciate the way. working backwards method that Jeff describes. I think a lot of people don't think that way. I think that this is a completely different way to frame it. But when you explain it, Jeff, it really makes way more sense because what did you say? What does the goal do for you? What is your goal and what

does that do for you that forces you to think backwards for where you need to be now? And like David said, when you're working on something, you're like, oh, let me pivot. Well, you just wasted some time. Wasted isn't the right word. But you're just, you're just, you're just, you're just, You didn't spend your time appropriately because you weren't working towards the right goal. So this has been eye-opening for me. And I'm excited for your event. It seems like this is going to. I'm excited for what Jordan is going to get out of it and what John is going to get out of it.

I think it's going to be a really fantastic boost to their company. And I can't wait to talk to John and Jordan in another year and see what has happened from this retreat. And I'll just say, this changed my life. I haven't said a single thing here today that I have not lived myself. A year ago, we were residents of Austin, Texas. But my wife and I did our goal setting retreat, and we had an honest conversation realizing we are not Texans. Sorry, Jordan. Deep down, we wanted to be closer to mountains.

And I told myself the story that I have to be in Austin because it's where the company is. It's where Gary and Jay are. But all of a sudden, all our corporate clients are saying the future of work is going to be more virtually based physically enhanced. And I sat down with my partners and said, you know, as a company that trains companies to be productive, if that's the future of work, shouldn't we be one of those companies? So we have authority. And they said, yeah, we probably should.

And so I said, so we're taking the company virtual? They said, yes. And my wife and I had already booked a trip to Denver because we made our one annual goal. If every year for the next five years, we took one trip to a place we might want to maybe call home in five years, we'll know where we'll want to live. So in 10 years, we can live where we want to live. I bought a house in Denver on that trip because we did this retreat. So for you who's listening to this, what stops us from reinventing ourselves is an attachment

to the way things used to be. You've learned that in the last year, but now is a time to have an honest conversation about where you've been letting life happen to you and where you can be more purposeful so you live a life by design. That is the purpose of this. So if you want to learn more about the event, you can go to biggerpockets.com slash one. that's O-N-E, biggerpockets.com slash one. They've partners with us again this year, and we can't wait to be with you guys.

Well, thank you, everybody. Really appreciate everyone being here, the wisdom that's been shared. If anyone listening to this is considering it, I would highly encourage you to go check it out, get around other people that are on the same wavelength and just kind of, it seems scary when you just hear other people talking about it, but the best way to get anything is to immerse yourself in it. So go there and watch how other people set their goals. I get a lot of clarity after listening to other people share what they have going on.

I think Mindy's the same way. I've almost seen light bulbs popping off on her head as we go. As she hears clarity that somebody else got it, really does become a community where everyone helps everyone else, which is what bigger pockets ultimately is, is a bunch of us trying to help each other to be able to build wealth and build the life that we really want. So heartfelt thanks to all of you that are here today. I'm going to get us out of here. This is David Green for Mindy Jensen and Jeff, the One Thing Woods. Signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small.

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