BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 601: Why Hitting Your “Goals” Isn’t Enough & Where 95% of Investors Unknowingly Fail

Episode Date: April 26, 2022

What makes a millionaire mindset? Everyone knows what it takes to become successful: hard work, grit, tenacity, and (usually) some form of intelligence. But with so many people (real estate investors specifically) working hard, day in and day out, why aren’t we seeing a plethora of unbelievably successful individuals? It turns out, the problem isn’t within the system of building wealth, but the individual. Jason Drees, mindset coach and author of Do the Impossible, has seen numerous individuals come to him confused, doubtful, and wanting to do more. Within a matter of years or even months, these individuals poised on success attain things that would take most people many lifetimes. So what’s the difference between a massively successful investor and a moderately successful one? In today’s show, Jason breaks down the alchemy behind building a business, a life you love, and massive wealth. He even takes a break to coach David and Rob on their future business plans, uncovering some roadblocks and new paths that they never even knew existed. If you’ve been stuck in analysis paralysis, or simply have a goal to get to fast, this is the episode to not only listen to but take notes and review so you can grow as well. In This Episode We Cover: Why 95% of real estate investors aren’t aiming high enough (and how it’s hurting them) Evolving your mindset after hitting a goal, no matter how small Hitting unknown goals and looking for accomplishments that excite you Using your emotion to navigate success and listening to your internal guidance Walking the path to greatness instead of settling for success How to “Frame” your goals, plus a live example with David and Rob And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Youtube Channel Biggerpockets Bookstore Brandon's Instagram Tony Robbins's Website Tony Robbins Life Coaching David's Instagram The David Greene Team's TikTok Profile Rob's Instagram Rob's Youtube Channel Rob's TikTok Profile Connect with Jason: Jason's Company Website Jason's Instagram Check the full show notes here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-601 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pocket podcast podcast show 601. The whole big concept of action versus mindset versus frame is really the mental environment you're operating in. Like in the past when I did coaching, it was coaching clients around action and mindset, action, action, action, action. Now all of the focus I do is really helping people shift their mental environment because the right action and the wrong environment will never ever work. What's going on, everyone?

This is David Green, your host of the Bigger, Pockets podcast. If you are looking to find financial freedom through real estate, you, my friend, are in the right place. Bigger Pockets is a community of over two million members where we have one simple goal to help people find financial freedom through real estate. We do that by bringing in experts in the field that have done it before. We do it by bringing in stories of people that can inspire you that you can follow in their footsteps. We provide as much information as we possibly can about how this world works. And we also do what we do today, where we bring. in experts in mindset that will help you develop the right way to look at yourself and the

world to achieve the goals you have and put into practice the information that we give you. Here with me today to join me is my good friend and co-host. Rob, Rob, how else? It's it going. Hello, hello. Man, dude, we are right over 600 episodes here on the Bigger Pockets Network. Can you believe it? It feels like just yesterday we started this thing.

That's exactly right. picking up Steam, you know, ever since Brandon Turner stepped away to focus on other things. We started creating more content and different kinds of episodes. And one of the things that we focused on is bringing more detail into these shows. We want them to feel more like a masterclass than a specific topic than just the same story of a different successful investors. So one thing we'd like to know is if you like that, please leave us a comment. You can do that on YouTube by following Bigger Pockets there.

Leave us a comment. Tell us what you thought of today's show, what you'd like to see more of. You can also do it on the Bigger Pockets website itself. Now, speaking of Brandon Turner, we actually have his coach with us today. You all may know that Brandon has his famous text letter behind the beard. Well, today we have the man who was famously behind the beard and his success. Someone mentioned countless times by Brandon Turner. It is his coach, Jason Dries.

Now, I've met Jason a few times. I've talked with Brandon more than a few times about the stuff that he gets from Jason and implements it. Much of this information is sort of filtered to me through my relationship and friendship with Brandon. And Jason joins us today to talk about how to realign the way that we think so that we can hit our goals. Rob, what were some of your favorite parts of today's show? Man, you know, he really drove at home for me on a lot. I think this really came at a great time for me because I feel like my mindset has changed a lot over the last year several times.

And talking to Jason really reassures me. One of the things he harps on here is that we should be going after. We should be following our emotion, following what excites us, what real estate project out there scares us. What scares us that, you know, what's something that we don't think that we can possibly do? That's what we should be pursuing. Not necessarily the most logical path, right? Don't necessarily always lean on logic and the analytics and the numbers, which, you know,

obviously there's a case to be made for that. But go after what scares you. And that's kind of what we've been doing here, right? Yeah, you know, one thing he mentioned that I haven't heard anyone say before is we often talk about mindset. And what Jason said is that mindset isn't something you can actually change. You can only change your frame and then your mindset will follow. And he gets into this idea of what a frame is, how to affect it. The view that you look at the world through, the lens that you see things and then the lens that that information comes back to you is really where it starts.

Brandon Turner and I often talk about this as identity. Whatever you see yourself as will determine what steps you take. Now, if you are only here to learn about real estate investing, that's okay. You still want to listen to the show because at the end of it, you want to make sure you listen all the way of the end. Jason actually breaks down Rob and I's partnership, our goals for buying real estate, and how this information could be used for us to practically take steps to achieve our goals. So you don't want to miss that, especially the awkwardness as we're asked questions

that we've never really asked each other or ourselves up into this point. What did you think about that, Rob? That's right. Yeah, today we actually get a look deep into the, deep into the crystal ball of the future. And David, I don't think you necessarily liked who you saw in the crystal ball. No, I had my little Disney moment there. I was like, oh, is that the case? And also it felt eerily like looking at my own head because my head's kind of in the shape of a crystal ball.

So that was a double doozy for me. Well, for what it's worth, I like the shape of your head. that's pretty much why I picked you as a partner. That's my one litmus test that I just need to see past. And you passed it. All right, before we move on to this show, let's get today's quick tip. Today's quick tip is by Jason's book. It's put out right now by Bigger Pocket Publishing.

It's called Do the Impossible. If you want a life that looks like Brandon Turner's, get a book written by his coach and get some of the same coaching that he got himself. Have you ever lost a DSCR deal because the financing just took too long? Red flags popped up late. the lender needed more time. The deal fell apart. Well, our friends at Dominion Financial just launched a program to help prevent that. With their new express rental loan, you can close in 10 days or less. And they still offer their price beat guarantee. So you can get great pricing and a timeline you can count on. Fast, simple, reliable. That's Dominion. Check them out at biggerpockets.com slash dominion. That's biggerpockets.com slash dominion. What if I told you you could forget everything you know about investment property loans? Because host financial is rewriting the rulebook, tossing out those pesky DTI restrictions.

They focus on your property's income potential. No tax returns or personal income statements needed. Simple, efficient, and tailored for investors like you. Imagine a lender that sees the gold mine in your property, not just the numbers on your paycheck. That's the host financial difference. And they're approved in 47 different states, so your next big deal could be just around the corner. Ready to unlock your property's true potential, visit hostfinancial.com. Don't let old school lending hold you back another day.

That's hostfinancial.com. Real estate investors, the April 15th tax deadline is coming fast. If you own rental property and haven't done a cost segregation study yet, you could be handing thousands of dollars to the IRS that you don't have to. These studies let you write off as much as 25% of your building and generate huge tax deductions. Costsegregation.com is an online, sell, guided software that makes cost segregation fast and affordable. So it finally makes sense for smaller rental properties purchased for as low as $100,000. With pricing under $500 and an average savings of

over $25,000, it's just a no-brainer. What's more, audit support is included by the number one cost segregation company in the U.S., but you must complete it before the tax deadline. Go to Costsegregation.com and use code tax deadline to get 10% off your first report. Don't overpay the IRS. Head to Costsegregation.com before April 15th. All right. Rob, before we bring in, Jason, anything you want to add? You know, there's always pressure for me to add some insightful tidbit here, but no,

I got nothing, man. I think we should just dive straight in. I think that shows that you are a secure person and that you're able to say no, because you know you bring enough value as is. And you bring plenty in today's show. So everybody buckle up, strap yourself in, grab the handles because you are in for a wild ride with Brandon Turner's mindset coach, Jason Drees, Rob Oblis Solo, and me, David Green. Jason Dries, welcome back to the Bigger Pockets podcast. Thank you, David.

Quite has changed since the last time I was here, and it's exciting to reconnect. Yeah, there's a little less beard down low and there's a little more hair on top. You see my new co-host here is, I'm working on it. Yeah. I'm working on it. You got a ways to go before you become Gandalf. So, Jason, you wrote a book for Bigger Pockets, and I'm sure that a lot of Brandon's success comes from the stuff that's going to be in this book.

So we would all like to know what is this book about? So this book is really kind of the foundation of my coaching methodology, but really it's how I've understood I've created the success I've had. The book is called Do the Impossible. And one of the things I've noticed being a professional coach for close to 10 years is that, you know, probably 95 to 98% of the people I meet, they're simply not aiming high enough. They're just not aiming high enough. So this book here basically is written to kind of give people the foundation of what their full potential is, how to start playing life at their full potential. And more importantly, the power of mindset and how to shift it into alignment with playing at that.

that level. Yeah, you know, this topic of mindset has come up a lot. Brandon and I started a mindset oriented episode, maybe a year, year, and some change ago, because we realized that just telling people what to do over and over and over is what people think that they need. But so many people have the knowledge that's needed and they're not actually doing anything with it, that it's actually a mindset problem. You have to adjust that first before the knowledge and the information that we're giving somebody is even useful to them. So do you mind kind of maybe expanding on that concept that while people may think that what they need is answers or knowledge, it's usually not the case. Yeah, like, because mindset is this elusive thing.

And I'll tell you, it's really strange being an expert in something that most people don't understand what it is. But mindset is literally the simplest way, it's like a point of view. It's your thinking. It occurs in your brain. And it's how you view things. And one of the models I kind of use is like, as human beings, especially achievers. And if you're listening to this podcast, you're growing.

and expanding your life and you're working towards it. As human beings, I'll give you my little graphic here. So imagine a small circle. We'll call this action, right? And as human beings, a lot of times we think about action, right? Hey, I want to hit this target. I want to get a new property. I need to push up the level.

So a lot of times the action comes. But what happens if the action doesn't work or you don't know what action to take, right? That's where we get to the next layer, which is mindset, because of the mindset, your point of view, your experience, your level of thinking determines the actions you can take. And that's where people start to understand they're not creating success they want or the results they want. It's somewhere around mindset. So that's really like the first component to start creating more success is to understand you are capable of more than you currently think. So it's really a game of how much can you evolve your mindset?

Because when your mindset is in alignment with a target, then you hit the target. So do you find it's better to sort of take an offensive approach and say, I'm going to tell. myself, I am worthy of this, or is it a defensive approach where you have to remove self-limiting beliefs that are stopping you from thinking it? What's the way that you tend to approach that? It's kind of a combination, right? The interesting thing is that I have come to understand that limiting beliefs and the emotion we feel around limiting beliefs is actually a symptom of misalignment, right? There's times where we have flow, where we have naturally inspired action, and there's times where we have resistance,

and we have procrastination, that actually has to do with alignment. So there's times when you actually have to shift the limiting beliefs around them. And one of the most interesting things that I've learned over the past 10 years is I used to work for Tony Robbins and I was a Tony Robbins coach.

And as Tony Robbins coach, we would focus on mindset and action. We'd focus on beliefs. And we would literally say, okay, well, why don't you start cold calling to find off market deals? Well, I don't like cold calling, right? And then a coach would say,

well, what type of dad are you going to be if you don't follow through, right? So the coach would use leverage of pain and pleasure to force misaligned action. And what I've discovered about 14 months ago is there's actually a level that's beyond mindset. So you have action, you have mindset, and then you have another level, which I call frame.

And frame is you, right? Frame is you. Because your mindset is here, it's in your mind. And your brain is a computer that looks through everything in the past. So as you're moving forward, it's constantly comparing anything forward to how does it compare to the past. And what I've come to realize, and it's kind of hard to explain, but like, I wouldn't believe

this unless I've proven it so many times. So what I believe your frame is, is it's you. Now, you and me, we're made of atoms, our body is energy, right? We also know that life responds to us. Sometimes life responds to us great. Sometimes life responds to us in ways that isn't good. And what I've discovered is that life responds to you based on your frame. You can also think of your frame as like your expectations, right?

So, and what I've discovered is that as human beings, we think action creates your reality. But what I've proven is that your reality creates your action because your frame creates your mindset that creates the action. So if a person is feeling limiting beliefs and they're resisting. to cold calling or raising money, that's because they're in a mindset that's misalignment, misaligned with that, which is in a frame that's misaligned with a target. So if you shift the frame into a frame of alignment, the mindset will shift, and then those limiting beliefs literally become irrelevant, just like that. So I've got some questions for you, Jason, because this actually really hits home for me,

specifically. My life has really evolved and changed in a lot of big ways over the past. past 24 months. And I feel for me personally that I was a completely different person three months ago. And I feel like I was a completely different person from that six months ago. And then nine months ago and 12 months ago, every three months, I feel like I have a completely different mindset change. So obviously, I'm the still person. I'm being hyperbolic. But from the way I think about things, the way I think about business, the way I think about, you know, financials, the way I think about investing and all that kind of stuff, it really does change. day to day for me because I'm in a spot where I've set all the goals that I've always had in my

whole life and I keep I hit them and it's because I run full force and so I'm kind of curious you know for me at this point I had a whole you know five to ten bullet point list here of all my goals and I keep hitting them and so now I'm wondering what's next for me like I don't know how to evolve my mindset when I feel like I've hit my goals so how to does that play into something like this? What's goal setting or? Yeah, goal setting into- Expansion?

Yeah, like, do you feel like goal-setting is a healthy way to change your mindset? Or is that something that holds us back? Because it kind of sounds like you're saying, you know, when you're framed in a box here, it's a little tougher to escape from said box. Yeah, and goal setting is absolutely a powerful tool. And it also depends on where you're setting goals. what I've found to be true is that in order to hit your goal, you have to evolve into the mindset that's in alignment with the goal.

What I've found is instead of going through and picking apart limiting beliefs one after another, you can actually shift your frame and instantly get into alignment. And what I would say to most people who are consistently growing and expanding, I'd say, well, fantastic Rob, because that's what's going on right now. We're all growing at an accelerated rate. And what the questions I use with my clients to do goal setting is, you know, we ask the question, what do you want? which we all ask.

The only problem with that question is that question is based on past reference. So you say, what do I want in 2022? Your brain's going to give you an answer on 2021. The second question to ask yourself is what is possible. And when you ask yourself what is possible, you'll actually get an answer that's based on external reference. Now, if you're above external reference, you won't get that, but most people are not. The third question, and this is the question I would ask you, actually, Rob, right now,

is what would be an impossible target for you to hit this year? Impossible, but would be a lot of fun anyway. Okay. Wow. You know, listen, I've thought about this a lot. So would this be a financial goal, investing goal, or just kind of just throwing everything out there? We could do in each area,

but I just figure I'd throw it back out here to see what comes up. So right now I currently have about 14 properties in my portfolio. I would say an impossible, in my mind, goal for one year from now would be to get to 100 units. Okay. That sound exciting? Yeah. Yeah, it does. It does because it would basically take the four years, four or five years of investing that I have and effectively quadruple the rate at which I achieve that, right? Because, you know, I did that over four years. So doing it in a year to me, it sounds not really quite as feasible from your current, but is it physically possible? Yes. Yeah, definitely. If I start going

down the route of, you know, bigger fundraising, syndications, and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So if you started to aim at that target, now did you notice, David, how he got excited when he talked about that? Yeah, you could hear the change in his voice, his tone. Yeah. And what that question does is it pulls up an intuitive answer.

And that's like we start to follow our excitement. So when you ask about goal setting, there's a concept I use called known and unknown. Now, Brandon talks at length about goal setting and visionary and all of that stuff. I don't do it at all because there's two different places you can set goals. You can set goals in the known and you can set goals in the unknown, right? Now, the simplest example I can give you is that, let's see, you've got a new listener. They have a day job. They want to replace their day job with real estate income.

They make $10,000 a month. They read David's book and they're like, okay, I need $100 a door. I need a 100 doors. I could probably do two this year, three next year, so I could probably get 100 doors in five to seven years. That's known. Like from today's point of view, that's known. And they could map it out backwards, 10 offers per deal, 10 deals per offer, 10 properties per offer, et cetera.

You could like map it out backwards. Now, that's known. At the same time, that real estate investor also knows that they could get into a single deal or deals that generates $10,000 in passive income in five to seven months. they just don't know how. The book that I'm using, The Do The Impossible Book, is really about how to get an alignment

with those unknown targets that radically accelerate you. And when you're doing goal setting in the known, you can absolutely set goals three years map them out backwards. But when you're setting goals in the unknown, you have to do them one step at a time

because life literally only gives you those targets one step at a time. So, Jason, can you give us a hypothetical example of what an unknown goal might be? and then what some of those mile markers like you mentioned would be to get to that unknown goal? Well, absolutely, right? My business last year did $2.5 million in revenue.

And my impossible goal right now is to do $10 to quadruple this year after almost tripling last year. Do I know exactly how to do that? I don't know. I've got one-on-one coaching. I've got group programs. I've got live events. I've got certain people here. but I have no idea which people, am I going to be more more successful pushing all my energy

to our live event or one-on-one coaching or group coaching program or focus on books? Like I don't know, right? I'm now, I can make a guess from the situation. But what I want to do is follow the process of life to get the most exciting result. Because what I've proven over the past couple years is like I'm literally following my excitement. So if I'm looking at all of those right now, it's like, okay, what's the plan for the year? If I look at the plan for the year to hit 10 million, I have no idea. I would just be guessing.

Now, if I say, what would be my number one target in the next 90 days? What's the most exciting thing I can work on in the next 90 days? I actually start to get different answers. So you basically start to pull intuitive direction and excitement out. So you start to walk that path of accelerated targets. So that is very interesting, Jason. I actually was just talking to a friend about kind of a similar headspace here. And he said, I don't know, maybe he was following you on Instagram, but basically he was telling me to set your goal, like take whatever you want to make. In his instance, it was a monetary goal. So $4 million. He's like, I want to make $4 million next year through my Airbnb investments, my real estate investments, another company he's starting. And he said that he found this quote or, you know, someone he knows told him, take that goal and then 10 exit. And that's going to be $40 million. Set your goal.

goal for $40 million. It doesn't really matter if he can hit that $40 million or not, but then to retroactively work backwards and figure out how he can get to that $40 million, because that's a really hard goal. But once he maps out how to get to $40 million, getting to $4 million dollars really isn't quite so scary anymore because he already figured out the big bad beast down at the $40 million mark. Yeah, and that's an example of thinking from a different point of view or different perspective or different frame to start generating different thoughts. And really what this is really about, the whole big concept of action versus mindset versus frame is really the mental environment you're operating in.

Like in the past when I did coaching, it was coaching clients around action and mindset, action, action, action, action. Now all of the focus I do is really helping people shift their mental environment because the right action and the wrong environment will never ever work. Right. And the simplest example I can give you about a frame is like, as far as being in an open frame, it's like you can be walking down the street and someone can walk up to you and say, hey, you look like a very nice, a nice upstanding citizen and reach out and hand you a million dollars in cash. Right. Now, what's your reaction? Right. Do you say thank you? Do you say what's the catch? Do you say I can't take this? Right. Now, regardless of what you say, just because that scenario is not like, doesn't mean it's not possible. The average person walks around with expectations that things like that aren't possible so things like that don't happen.

When you live in a reality where anything is possible, then you start to see opportunities and connections and you start to open up. So you start to operate in a frame that's more open and then you see ways to jump up in success. So I think in a sense, it kind of is the mindset of anything is possible, but that almost feels like very, very lofty

like a little tougher to really live by. But is that, is that a mindset that we should be kind of adhering to that anything like legitimately anything is possible and we just have to be open to those opportunities presenting themselves? Or do you think there's also a little bit of work that we have to be putting towards it to opening up those things that are impossible? That's a great question. What I've found is that the frame you're operating in creates the reality you're operating in. So, you know, you both have, are successful than the average person out there. I know that.

You're at a top, you're high level performers. And when, and you've seen a lot of people who have limited points of you financially, right? They think money, it's hard to make money. That literally your, your environmental expectations, your frame determines what you think. And what actually happens is your frame determines the frequency of your brain, which then determines your thoughts, then determines if you have naturally inspired action or you have procrastination or you're an alignment or fear. So what we don't realize is that we are every day creating our operating mental environment. And most of us are resistant and to what's fully

possible based on our past references. So the more you start to open and operate with a more open, more possibility-based point of view, then you start to see things. And when you start to see things, then you have different ideas and different ideas, create different actions, different connections, and it kind of snowballs. Do you think you could give us an example of a client you had, or even if it's just a hypothetical one, of what their frame was like before this made it into their world and then how their frames shifted that led to more success so we can see what this would look like in real terms?

One of the frames that I've been talking about a lot, at least a lot recently with my clients, is about overwhelm. Right. Now, as you create success in life, you start to get to a point where you have more stuff. And I'm sure everybody on this call has been overwhelmed before. If you're in a place of overwhelmed, it's almost like there's too much stuff going on.

Too much stuff is too much life. But the reality is a lot of people resist overwhelm. But the reality, the point of view, the frame that I like to point out is that the way you get overwhelmed is because you are successful in the past, you've created more stuff than you can manage. So that, to me, sounds like a good thing. And overwhelm, also, if you're in overwhelm, which is a frame of overwhelm, you're looking at the world and the current reaction is like, I can't manage all this. If you're in overwhelm, it means it's possible for you to not be an overwhelm. So you can also see overwhelm as the indicator

to level up and shift your mindset, as in the feeling of overwhelm is the indicator of the presence of an elevated frame. So a frame shift can be simply as simple as a point of view that literally blows away every roadblock and limitation

at the previous point of view had. That's as simple as a frame shift. But when you start to make that shift, you start moving, you start thinking differently. I think that makes a lot of sense, personally. I mean, you know, I think one of the easiest ways And, you know, correct me, correct me if you have kind of other points of view on this.

But this is where I think, like, someone like a mentor can come in and really help somebody. Because for me, there have been so many points in my life where, you know, I had limiting beliefs, right? Especially about real estate and investing in this. I can't do that. I can't finance that. And then you talk to somebody that's done it. And you talk to someone that's done it 10 times and you talk to someone that's done it 50 times. And then they're just like, you know, what are you talking about?

of course you can. This is all you have to do. This, this, this, this. And it's so clear for other people. And I think having someone that you can talk to or, you know, be a sounding board for, right? Like, that to me has always helped me in my scenarios. And I think that's probably why I've had so many mind shift changes this year because I've spoken to so many people in my space, whether it's content creation or real estate or investing that are all, you know, better than me. Not, not as a person, but in their space, right? They've mastered it. Yeah. And they talk to me. and they inspire me, and I'm like, whoa, I had no idea that was possible. And then I see other people doing it.

I'm like, well, I guess it is now. I guess it is possible, and that's what I'm going to try to do. And so for me, that's always been very helpful is just kind of connecting with people that are in the same niche, but are just maybe 10 steps ahead of you. Mentors are a very powerful part of the equation, right? Because they can show you what's possible. One thing that can happen, though, is when you have high-level mentors like both of you and David, and David's here kicking out real estate investor strategy 500 because he's got so much experience

under his belt, a version 500 strategy doesn't run on a version 1 mindset. So sometimes if you ever wonder why your mentor strategy isn't working for the mentee, it's because their mindset may not be high enough to run the strategy. And that's actually a good place where coaching comes involved to help the mindset evolve. But it's like you want to coach on your team, you want a mentor on your team, right? that's a great equation. Can you explain to us just briefly what that difference is? Mentors are experts in strategy where they typically have done something you want to done before.

So they literally have a result that you want to achieve or they have expertise in the actual strategy. What a coach does is a coach helps evolve who you are, evolve your mindset. So it's not just strategies. It's like the mindset because mindset generates and runs strategies. The coaching evolves the mindset of you to a higher level so you can run higher level strategies. I've noticed in many times in life we want to go to who we think is the most successful person we can find and say, teach me. And once I started training in jiu-jitsu, I noticed like I'm learning from a Gracie, who's a family that's known for bringing Brazilian jiu-jitsu into the United States.

And he's been doing it since he was like four years old. It's his entire life under insane process. pressure he's in tech. I can only imagine being a Gracie and doing Jiu-Jitsu. You just have a target on your back all the time, right? And so when I'm trying to learn, I quickly realize he's the last person in this gym that I need to be asking questions of. He doesn't, he was six years old when he was learning what I'm learning right now. It is lifetimes ago that that even entered into his, like he has, like you said, a completely different mindset. He's looking at this from such a different lens, right? I'm learning a technique and he's trying to teach me.

in the scenarios when I might use it and how it's better than another one. And I'm like, I actually just need to practice moving my body in that way over and over and over until I get muscle memory down. I can't even hear what you're saying. And so what you're describing right now, Jason, like, I see this happen in things other than just in real estate. It's kind of a life thing where it's not always best to go to the most successful person you can find and say, show me how you do things, right? Like you said, the information they have doesn't work on the operating system that you're running. You have to start with where you're at and work on improving your property exists. You have anything you want to share on that note? That's a great point because when

you think mentor, you're like, oh, I need to go to the person way up here on the top shelf. But the reality is a mentor is simply someone who's done something you've done before. And it could be just a peer of yours or a neighbor. Sometimes you just hear something that gives you one distinction that's a game changer. So I would say, I sell people like you look for mentors and look for them everywhere. And just not like you have one mentor, you may have a mindset mentor, a sales mentor, or a business mentor, a family mentor. So now when I comes to deciding like what what goals do I want to set where do I want to go I know one of the things that you talk about is using a motion as an indicator or a guide for some of those decisions can you

elaborate on that a little bit yeah that's a great question and and when we talk about alignment right because what I found is that hard work doesn't create success alignment creates success alignment with success hard work increases your chances of getting into alignment with success that's what I found and and simply through trial error of my own. I've worked and had company who'd failed and failed and failed like year after year after year. I had things that didn't work, didn't work, didn't work, didn't work. And then all of a sudden, in 2019, I hit a wall and I quit. And I'm like, all right, I'm going back to sales. I'm not meant to be a coach. Nothing's working. And then after I quit, the next month, everything started flowing in.

And that's when I started to realize that hard work doesn't create success. Alignment with success creates success. What I've discovered over time is like, okay, well, if we know alignment with success, creates success, how do you know when you're in alignment? We all, we have an internal guidance system. We all have a guidance system and they're called emotions, right? But most of us are conditioned to follow our thinking over our emotions. Because what if that thing that you're procrastinating you don't want to do? What if you're not supposed to do that? Or it's supposed to be done a different way. So what I've found is that when you follow your emotions, you can actually dial into better targets because sometimes we'll think I need to do this target first before I do this one,

because I'm super excited about a multifamily deal, but I think I need to do a single family first. Like, that particular person should go straight for what they excited at, even if it seems like a different target or contradicts their mind, because the internal guidance is really the best path to success. So there are instances in your mind where it does make sense to kind of follow the excitement versus sort of, I suppose, the logical next step. Because it does make sense, you know, to a lot of people getting started, for example, single family home. Maybe I do one of those before multifamily.

We do see it all the time, though. People do start multifamily often. But it could be because they're excited. And that's, you know, they're willing to make it work in that instance. Yeah. Like, do you want to spend your life doing things you're supposed to do or spend your life doing exciting things? Yeah.

Yeah, usually the exciting thing. I think that's how I've always approached it. I very much like to be uncomfortable. I don't know why. And, you know, I'm sure our life, my wife and I's life could be a little bit easier if we just took the logical step. But I do like making big swings. Because, you know, I think being able to go after something that scares you a bit really, really can guide a lot of success. That's how it's felt for me.

So, you know, you speak a lot about the sort of the resistance here and the misalignment. How does one go about removing that? definitely understanding here, follow the excitement. But if you are misaligned, how can one prevent something like that? Well, you can't prevent it because it's always going to happen. And the faster you grow, the more you're going to get out of misalignment. Because as you start to grow, like imagine this little access is time and this is growth. And the average person grows like this.

And as you grow and grow and grow, you need to integrate the parts of you or the lessons or the experiences that are not at that frequency of the, of the, of the, a higher level. If you're growing at an accelerated rate, you're going to have to integrate faster and faster and faster. So the way to continue moving is to be open to the alignment and open to the, when the resistance comes up, like, know that you're getting out of, out of alignment. So when resistant comes up, the best thing to do is really to stop and like just breathe. And the simplest way to frame shift out of that is just to get a sense or imagine the version of you that's not in resistance.

Like, frame shifting is that easy. So, like, can you get a sense of a version of you that in this situation wouldn't be feeling resistance right now? And with a little focus of your attention, you actually start to shift your frame and you start to get an alignment. So the number of the first step when resistance is literally just stopping and breathing.

Because a lot of times we get, we're pushing and pushing and when we stop, we start to see things differently and that allows us to kind of move into alignment. Is there ever an issue with something like this where, because I agree. I mean, I think you hit a groove and you're like, okay, anything's possible. I'm chasing this. Hey, it's working.

Hey, I'm really good at this. Hey, I'm now very confident about this. Is there ever a moment where resting on your laurels and letting your guard down can really lead to misalignment? Is that something for somebody that is a, is that something that's possible for somebody that is a higher performer and someone that's, absolutely crushing it or does that tend to be a more rare case because they figured it out? Does like resting or pausing take them into resistance? Well, I guess overconfidence is the question here, right? Can you be perfectly aligned like we talked about and you're crushing all your goals?

And now you're so overconfident that, you know, is it possible that your overconfidence can lead you down the path of misalignment? it. Well, I think overconfidence can lead you to comfort, like overconfidence. Like, there's confidence. Like, you're certain you can hit the target. Like, being in a state of certainty and confidence of like, yes, I can hit the target. That is a pure state of alignment right there. Can you be overly confident? Like, what does that mean? Does that mean you're like, you're 100% certain, but then you're not open to flexibility? Or what does that actually mean? Sorry, is that rhetorical? Are you actually asking me right here?

Yeah. You say overconfident. I'm like, what does that mean overconfident? So, because I hear when one sign of alignment is certainty. Like, I'm confident I can hit the target. That's part of it. We all have different paths in life. And you may be overly confident, excited, confident. Things are working great for three months. And you're like, things are going great. I can relax for a month. And if I relax for a month, things may shift. But that's also the natural process of life. It's not necessarily a bad thing. You may be killing it, killing it, killing it. You take a little break. and all of a sudden you stop killing it, but then that little discovery from the break period from restarting is what kicks you into a higher gear anyway. Yeah, I think that's what I was wondering, because I think that for me, it's very tough to stop, right? You know, I'm doing what I stood out to do, and I feel like I, you know, if I, if I stop,

I'm no longer going to be able to hit my goals because I'm no longer working towards them, but it can lead to burnout. And so I have found myself taking a few more breaks and resting and kind of just digesting the world in front of me a bit. And that seems to have given me an inner peace and mindset change. So, yeah, that answers my question. Yeah. And I would say, like, do you have to keep working for your goals to keep working?

Or are you in a frame that's so aligned at a level where deals just find you now without doing anything? because those are both frames and you get to choose which frame you're going to be in. Yeah, I think that's the part that I'm trying to figure out, if I'm being honest. You know, I'm trying to figure out how hard do I have to work? Because I work very hard. And, you know, I like it. I like this world. I like the ability to be creative.

And I find that creativity is what fuels me. But, you know, obviously hitting your goals isn't everything, spending time with families, is everything too. Yeah. That's probably where I've kind of been pushing myself more towards is that side of things. What I've found that works best is to work in the way you want to work. If you like working hard, then work hard. If you work hard because you think you're supposed to, well, that's something different.

I like doing big things. I like working hard and I also like playing hard. So the more that I follow my own unique design. and my path for work and what I give to my team, what I do to myself, the more I do it my way, the more success I've seen come through. Because every one of us is different. And everyone is viewing our lives from different unique perspectives. So however else someone else is doing it is irrelevant.

And what really matters is like, what is the way that you want to do it? That's such a good point. And I notice, so I get this emotion that is not good when I hear, I don't know how I would describe it, like frustration or there's just a sense of your. asking the wrong question when maybe our listeners or people that want to learn how to invest in real estate say, what am I supposed to do? What step one? What step two? They're looking for an instruction book that's foolproof that if they just do these things, they will end up where they want to go. And I've never understood why I just, I knew that was the wrong question, but I think

what you're describing right now might be answering that. It's because not everybody is going to enjoy doing the same things. They're not going to be good at the same things. It's not going to work the same way for a lot of people. I think what you're talking about is what Brandon would often refer to as, does this feel light or does this feel heavy? Is that one of the tests that you give when trying to determine what someone should do? Well, part of it, right? But really the, you can't, you know, and I talk to investors all the time,

like you can't outplan the risk. Like, it's just there. You can't, right? So when you get those investors who are asking, I get that. And my hallucination, right or wrong, and why you're frustrated, is because they're asking you for the secrets that you worked your butt off to create. And it's not that you don't want to share those. The first step really is a decision to play the game, to play the game.

I'm going to do it. And you're asking me what step one is. Step one, yeah. Are you committed to the result? That's step one, right? And it's really frustrating. It is to me too. When people ask for your advice or you're mentoring and they're not taking the action or not

willing to do the work. I would say that's definitely a part of it. But it's not just that Jason is also what step one for David Green was is not going to be the same thing as Rob Obisolo. We have different goals. We're going to use the same vehicle to get there. But there's an infinite number of ways to put it together. And my personality led me down the path that I'm taking.

There are aspects of real estate that I love and there are aspects that I just cannot stand. So when you mentioned, you know, work hard at the things you want to work hard at or something, I started thinking about how I used to love being a cop and I could work a 20-hour shift as a cop and I would love 19 and a half hours of it. It was not, even though it was hard work, it didn't feel hard. I loved doing it, right? I loved saving money. So it was not as hard for me to delay gratification and not spend because I loved watching my bank account grow and that feeling of progress that I was getting towards a goal. There are other people that don't have my makeup and maybe saving money is very difficult for them.

They might have a different relationship with money. They look at money like it's a way to make friends or it's a way to have fun or enjoy life. So that person's goal might involve raising money from other people to put into the deal, not just saving up their own money. And when we ask that question, like, what's the blueprint? I just want to follow it. It's absolutely forsaking the fact that you're a unique individual with unique skills that you're going to have to use those to get towards your goal.

100%, right? The success formula is make a decision and do everything you can to hit it. Adjust as needed, right? And if you don't know a direction to go A, B, or C, which one's more exciting? Which one feels heavy? Which one feels light? Yes. Use your guidance system.

And that's really what I wanted to get at is that, like, for Rob, he loves to create. And the time I've known Rob, he has used that phrase probably 12 times. So I know in his heart, creativity is incredibly important, right? And I'm looking forward to getting to know you better, Rob, where I can find out what it is in you that you're trying to get out through creativity. I think that that's very cool. But I also see just like my former co-host, the infamous Brandon Turner, that time with family is incredibly important to you, right? Like Brandon would struggle with things that to me I never even thought twice about because I didn't have family in the equation.

So he would have to approach problems differently than how I would approach them. And that's sort of what I wanted to highlight is it's so important to start with where you're saying, Jason, because we all have different motives that are driving us. We all have a different end result we want. We all want financial freedom through real estate, but financial freedom for the purpose, isn't anything in a value in and of itself is what you do with that freedom that's going to give you value. So you're going to structure your portfolio differently. You're going to go about it in a different way. And I think part of what's really cool about setting a goal like this is it forces you to sort of learn things about yourself on the way. It forces you to trim the fat off of your own steak in a sense

as you're trying to push towards that goal. Usually every big goal that I've ever set made me a better version of David because in order to hit it, I sort of had to jettison the parts of me that were not helpful, useful to others bringing value. And I had to double down on the parts of me that were focused on other people or good in general. And that's just another reason why trying to find a blueprint, just like, just show me the shortcut. I just want to do what someone else did. You're robbing yourself of the entire journey that makes your skills and like what you're trying to do in life so powerful. That is, yeah, that's like so true. Right. And everybody's a unique. And we're not here for the destination, we're here for the journey.

And the reason I love getting people towards impossible targets is because when you start playing at the level of impossible target, what's your real, it's not really just hitting big targets. It's really following your own path in life, doing it your way. And when you start to follow your excitement and your path, that's where your success comes, your impact to other people's comes, your financial success, when you start doing it your way. And the first way to do that is to start moving past all the limitations from your path.

that have prevented you from playing that way. So you can do more. You can be more. Follow that path. Absolutely. And along the way, you evolve to be that person. 100%. All right.

So if I have to create systems and models and guides for the agents that I'm trying to teach and how to sell these homes, I have to get clarity on what worked for me in the past, what our clients are looking for. And then I have to influence the amount of agents it's going to take to sell a thousand homes. In order to do that, I have to become a stronger leader. I have to care about people more. And so what I love about when you set a big goal is it forces you to become a better version of you to get there. I think it's one of the ways that capitalism, when it's done well, contribute so much because if you want to have more wealth, if you want to build more money,

you have to become more valuable to other people. You have to think less just about yourself or you have to indulge your vices less. And so that's why when you hear successful people that like it's never enough. It's not always the money. I mean, sometimes it is. Absolutely. There's people they get caught up in that. But for others, it's the growth that that might be the most addicting feeling of all. It is, right? And the higher you aim, the faster you're hit with growth. So it's really a game of like saying yes to more. How fast can you get back into alignment? And then how do you continue that journey? And I had, you know, people ask me like, how do you do that? And I call this like walking your path to greatness, like your own unique path to greatness.

Are you playing it your full potential, going after impossible things and doing it your way? And some people are afraid of that decision to make the walk the path to greatness. And what I do is I basically give myself no other option. That's the only option is to walk the path to greatness to explore my full potential. Because if I'm going to be, I don't know how long I'm going to be here on this planet and this body. So I may as well make the absolute best of it as I can. and sometimes there's a little growth and sometimes there's a lot of growth. But it's always growth and expansion to become something more.

It's always an evolution. For me, I think just the way all are talking about it is very, it really hits home for me because I think growth is kind of seeing how you react when things go wrong, you know, similar to what we're saying, people always reach out and they're like, hey, give me the shortcut. Give me the one-line shortcut that's going to make me, you know, a real estate pro, you. And what I always have to tell them, it's, you know, hey, you don't become a pro at anything by things going right. You become a pro by everything going wrong. And so you have to be willing to accept failure as part of your growth. And that, to me, you know, everyone sees portfolio and

content. They're like, yeah, you're crushing it. But I'm like, the only reason I'm crushing it is because I failed the whole way. And I just adapted to those failures to enable my success. Absolutely, right? You know, if you would have talked to me 10 years ago, I would have said I'm going to be a race car driver flying in jets all over the planet, and I'm not. That was my path to get here, that it was failure, failure, failure, failure, failure. Yeah, and that's why having a humble spirit is so important,

because if you're going to learn from failure, you have to be okay with it. You can't interpret failure as you having a low worth yourself because you failed. It just, it's bringing me back to Jiu-Suitzoo again. I was just training yesterday and I was training with the black belt. And what we would do is we would just start to spar. and then he would stop me in the middle of it and say, do you see what you just did right there? Why did that happen? And I would work through, I left too much space between us.

And he said, yeah, when you leave space, I can do this. Do you see what you just did right there? It was literally everything I did wrong. He just kept bringing up. But by the end of the session, I now know don't do all those things, right? That's literally like how we get better. He didn't stop me and say, you did that thing great every single time. Those are really the things that I need help with.

And so I think that just sort of is a testimony to why minds. is so important. You got to be okay with having your your mistakes pointed out. You got to be okay with making mistakes. You can't interpret those like you don't have worth as a human being because someone's pointing out where you did something wrong. And when you're in that mindset, you welcome that feedback. You welcome the mistake. You go out there and you take actually screw up and you're grateful because it helps you get on the right path. And I think that's why somebody like you, Jason, is so valuable in someone like Brandon's life and in a lot of our listeners lives where you can help cultivate that mindset where you don't fear failure anymore.

You almost look forward to it because it's getting you to success faster. I think that, Rob, is that more or less what you're kind of getting at? 100%. I, uh, you know, for me, with the platforms that you and I have, David, and like, just being able to impart any, any amount of experience, I can at least look at my failures as there's a silver lighting. Silver lighting is I'll be better from it. And hopefully, maybe I can help someone else not fail in the same way. And if I can do this, that, then it wasn't a failure at all because we've helped people. We've enabled people to be the more successful version of themselves. New Year, Clean Slate, and maybe a vacancy that needs to get

filled fast, that's where a veil comes in. With Avail, rental listings can be published to 24 top rental sites with one click, completely free. That includes places renters are already searching, like Realtor.com, Apartments.com, Redfin, and more. No copying and pasting. No juggling multiple platforms, just one listing that shows up everywhere. If getting rentals organized and filled fast is on the list this year, start with Avail. Sign up for free at Avail.co-B-B-E-A-I-L-C-O-Bigger Pockets. Managing properties can feel like a full-on circus. You're juggling vendors, tracking payments, chasing approvals across multiple properties, and maybe a few HOAs, all while trying to keep tenants happy and owners confident. One delay can throw everything off, and suddenly your day is all clean-up,

no progress. That's why hundreds of property managers rely on bill to streamline their finances. Bill for property management lets you add all your properties, assign permissions, pay bills, and receive payments quickly and efficiently, without the usual bottlenecks. It syncs with platforms like QuickBooks, Zero, NetSuite, and Sage intact, so your accounting stays aligned. You can automate bulk payments across properties and HOAs. Choose flexible payment methods like same-day ACH, international wires, card or check, and set custom roles in approval policies.

There's even a dedicated bill inbox for each property to keep everything organized. Ready to simplify your workflow, book your free demo at bill.com slash bigger pockets, and get a $100 Amazon gift card. That's bill.com slash bigger pockets. You just realized your business needed to hire someone, yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring,

Indeed is all you need. That means you can stop struggling to get your job notice on other job sites. Indeed, sponsored job posts help you stand out and hire the right people quickly. Your job post jumps straight to the top of the page where your ideal candidates are looking. And it works. Sponsored jobs on Indeed get 45% more applications than non-sponsored post. The best part, no monthly subscriptions or long-term contracts. You only pay for results. And speaking of results, in the minute I've been talking to you, 23 people just got hired through Indeed worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of the show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash rookie. Just go to

Indeed.com slash rookie right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. That's Indeed.com slash rookie. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, Indeed is all you need. Tax season reminder for all the real estate investors listening. If you own rental properties, short-term rentals, commercial buildings, basically anything that's not your primary residence, you need to know about cost segregation. It's an IRS compliance strategy that lets you accelerate depreciation on your properties, which means you're paying less in taxes this year and keeping more cash in your pocket for your next deal. Cost Segregation Guys is the go-to firm,

having done over 12,000 of these studies with $500 million in total depreciation identified. Head to costsegregationguise.com slash BP to get a free proposal and see your potential tax savings. So, Jason, at this segment of the show, I would like to know if you do a live framing exercise on Rob and I. So Rob and I are partners. We buy real estate together.

We have a very big goal that feels impossible for at this stage of our partnership. And I would love it if you would sort of break us down and let everybody hear. This is what it looks like when you go through this process. Okay. Do I have permission to coach you? Yes. Just please be gentle. Don't slap us around too hard.

Don't mentally jiu-jitsu us too hard. We'll make you tap. Make you tap. So what's the target? You know, I think David and I have set a loose goal. I think we're open to collaboration here. But I think we're looking to close on a property every single month. It's probably going to take a little bit of systems and, you know, collaboration to get to that point.

It'll probably take a couple more months to get to the point where our systems are fully lined up. That's our big lofty goal. We want to do one luxury property every single month. Okay. And when do you want to do the first one? We're in it. We're doing it right now. We're an escrow on a property in Arizona, and we just had inspections, and we're set to close sometime in April. Is that a stretch goal, or is that an easy goal? Initially, it was a bit of a stretch goal. What do you think, David? Well, I think getting one under contract was, I don't want to say easy, but it was definitely possible, but repeating that every single month for the rest of the year would be a stretch goal.

So let me ask you this. What are you asking? after by closing one property a month? I think one of the things that would stand out to me is by doing it every month, it will force us to maintain our communication and contact with each other. We will have to build, I mean, we have a system we're using right now, but the word system is often overused.

It's not just about having something just being good at doing it. So it will force us to get good at the rhythm of how we're playing this game and how we're working towards our goals. it will also give us more what I want to say here like kind of a case study to be able to share with the bigger pockets audience this is what we're doing this is what we're learning this is what went well this didn't go well a steady stream of information that we can dispense yeah and another really important thing for us is when we talked about our strategy we're like oh what if we buy five houses a month and this and that but now I think we're actually looking to heavy up on the

luxury properties because it's arguably even if it's the same cash flow, we think it's going to be more, but it's less work than managing five to ten smaller properties that add up to that luxury property. Now, how are you feeling about this target now? Better, because we've actually done it. So we've gone from being conceptual to talking about it for a couple of months to now we've actually implemented it. And so now there's something tangible to hold on to so that when we know we want to replicate it,

we've done it once before and we actually have tangible evidence and experience to guide us. And David, how are you feeling about that target right now? I feel more excited about it talking about it. I can see one of the things that jazzes me up about any opportunity is the concept of synergy. So I really like it if I can have success in one area that will also make a lot of other things I'm trying to do easier, kind of like the concept in the one thing. And so being able to have success in this field will make this podcast. podcast better. It will add more value to the bigger pockets audience. It will make

Rob and I's relationship stronger. It will obviously build more wealth, but it will open up doors for ways that we can show other. We're sort of trailblazing in this sense, because I don't know anybody else that's really pursuing what we're pursuing the way we are. We'll have to be raising money to do this. So it's going to stretch. That's one of the areas I think that makes it feel extra hard as I've never raised money at scale before. I've done it for individual properties, a couple hundred thousand here or there. But now we have to have a steady stream of that coming in every single month. Are you thinking high enough?

Are you thinking big enough? I think we came up with this goal as this is a pretty stretch goal for right now, for the very beginning. I don't think in a year or two that this would be very difficult to hit. I think we would reevaluate that goal once we found like we were hitting it successfully. Yeah, for me, I would say, you know, I have never purchased a property of this size. It's really quite, quite expensive. It's $3.25 million.

dollars and every property that I've purchased, you know, for the most part, the average is sub, you know, half, sub a million. So to go to something three times more expensive, I've already hit a really big goal. Like that to me was, okay, 3.25, that's out there. That's big. That's so much bigger than what I've done. Now, arguably, I could go bigger. And I think doing one of these per month, that's, that me, you know, that seems, I'm not going to say unrealistic, but that's, that's a lofty goal. Okay. If success was guaranteed and you could not fail, would you still aim at the same target?

I'd go higher. No doubt. I think, I think I would want to go from buying one a month to going out, raising a lot of money, to go and build 20 or 30 of these all in one fell. swoop. What about you, David? I would probably buy more of them that are existing properties. And I would be looking to hire more people to manage them because I can see that we would get so many of them it would become pretty much impossible to keep the books and make sure all the work was being done. So it would turn itself into an organization if success was guaranteed.

So we would need to be hiring more people and creating a more defined structure to it. and back to you David what would be an impossible what would be completely impossible for you to hit this year but would be a lot of fun to do anyway with the specific goal that Rob and I have here if we hired an acquisition manager and a person to help raise capital and just let them loose like we're just going to buy 10 to 15 of these things every month. And this person is responsible for raising the money and this person is responsible for picking the properties and managing them. That feels impossible. But that would be a blast if we could get to the point that Rob and I were just meeting every week and picking out the 10 properties that we were going to buy and letting

everybody else worry about the details. Do you like that target, Rob? Yeah, seems pretty impossible to me in a good way. I agree. I mean, I can't really fathom buying and closing 10, 5th, 10 to 15 luxury properties that are over $2 million. That's because I've never done it before. And so it seems to me exciting, but also how? Like, how can someone do that? So can you get a sense? Now, when I talk about frame shift, like this, when I say get a sense, like imagine you're

at the grocery store and you're looking straight ahead and you know the person to the left is looking at you, right? You know, we can sense that. Can you get a sense of a version of you in the future anytime? time next week next year 10 years 20 years can you get a sense of a version of you in the future that if we brought you in today you'd look at that impossible target and say i can do it yeah yeah i can i can and can you get a sense of a version of you that's hit that impossible target at some point in the future the version of you that has actually hit it yeah definitely that's a little

tougher. It's a little tougher? Okay. Yeah. Can you get a sense of a version of you that it knows it's possible for other people on this planet to hit that impossible target? Yes, I'd say so. I think so. Can you get a sense of a version of you in the future that knows if other people can do it, you can do it?

Yeah. Can you get a sense of a version of you in the future that has hit that impossible target? Yes. Yeah, I can more now. Hold your awareness on that version just for, but, Five, ten seconds. And how are you feeling now?

I think so purely based on just kind of running this exercise with you and taking who I am today. If I could just go talk to myself two years ago, I think I would completely blow, you know, the mind of younger Rob if he could speak to me today. And so in two years from now, I'd like to think that the same thing would happen again. if I could speak to that person. David, how are you feeling now after that exercise? If I'm being honest, there's some resistance that I don't know that I would like the version of me that I'm seeing that I would have to become in order to hit that goal. Okay.

I see somebody who would have to be way more matter of fact, a little bit sterner when it comes to the people that work for me and the goals that they need to hit. I wouldn't be able to sort of be like the Disneyland. version of David that we could be on this podcast where we're inspiring people and we're and we're trying to find those underdogs and coach something out of them. When you get to that level, it's much more like you can't work with the underdog anymore. They have to be experienced. I wouldn't get a lot of the joy out of helping teach people. And I think that's where I'm sensing like I can't see a version of me that it would still do what I do right now

and be able to do that well. I feel like the part of me that's encouraging would get in the way of running an enterprise that big because I would allow for performance that wasn't where I would need it to be. And then if I did sort of become like that traditional hard-nosed CEO, this is the way it has to be, I would lose some of the fun that I'm having right now. That's what popped in my head when I went through the exercise. Yeah, that's great awareness because that's your present frame trying to make sense of how to do that, right? Your present point of view. But can you get a sense of a version of you in the future that was able to hit the impossible goal, doing it the way you wanted and had someone else running the business and being that person that needed to be.

That would be the only way it could happen. That's exactly right. There would have to be a person between me and the people that I talked to that sort of acted like a buffer that didn't have the responsibilities that I have that I could trust to be able to make it happen. Yeah, that's as you were talking. That's what was sort of like rising itself to the surface. Yeah. Because either direction that you two go, it's unknown. You need to figure it out. Whether you're going to do one, property a month or 15 properties a month. Either way, you have to figure out how to do it. So in this situation, like, you can continue the frame shift exercise. Like, okay, well, what's more exciting now? Is it 15 or 1? So let me ask you the question. Can you get a sense of the version

of you that knows which target you should aim at next? Yeah, I think I can. I think so, too. I mean, we've got our goal now. Maybe we are thinking smaller. I think, David and I can have a chat about this later today and say, hey, let's recalibrate. And what's a bigger goal that's a little scarier than what we've laid out in front of us? It doesn't have to be 10 or 15. Maybe it's three to five, but that's still scary and but achievable, I think. And that's awesome awareness, right? And what I would also advise you and all the listeners is like, when we start to go,

I had this thought process myself. I'm like, okay, how am I going to do 10 million this year? I'm like, okay, well, oh, no, I'll get my executive assistant who's detail oriented because I'm not. And she's going to sit down and we'll do two hours of weekly planning every Monday and we'll plan this out. And I was like, wait a second, wait a second. I don't want to do that. I don't want it to be that way. I want it to be 10 million and fun and easy.

And then I asked myself, well, how do I hit 10 million this year? And my brain told me, you need to increase your impact. How do you increase your impact? You increase your impact with more focus. How do you become more focused? You put more space around the action you're taking. And then I started to realize I'm in a leveraged model. So the more space.

I create around myself and build my team up, the more power I get, the more impact for things to really explode. So when you start to say, hey, I'm going to go after something big, let's play with that idea for a little bit. Your brain's going to give you its old perspective on how to do it. And like David said, I don't want to do it that way. And I'm saying, don't find the other way. What is the way? Get curious about that because you just don't know what it is yet. It's a new frame. And you can every day just say, hey, can I get a sense of the me that knows how to do it? Yeah. And do that for like 30 seconds. And literally you'll start shifting your thoughts, just like that. Well, I thank you, Jay's. Thank you. I feel, uh, I got a new perspective on, on how to approach

this project specifically. I'm sure David does too. We'll have some chats behind closed doors. That's like, we've been thinking about it all wrong. But I wanted to ask you just from your side of things, you have any final thoughts or like any final words of wisdom that we can impart on our audience here at home before we wrap up here. I mean, we've already said a lot. So, so no pressure, but, you know, anything that comes to mind for you, man? You know, I would say, you know, go after what you want and give it all you got, you know, because what I've learned along the way is that the most satisfaction I've ever had in my life is giving it all I've got. It's far more satisfying than actually getting the price because I knew I left everything on the court, everything I could. So don't hold back.

reason not to. Jason, thank you so much. We appreciate your time, my friend. How can people at home, where can people find you on Instagram? Give us the final finals on that, too, the final details there. If you're interested in what I'm doing and you'd like to know more, I do group coaching, we do one-on-one coaching. You can go to jasondreasecoaching.com.

You can also check out my Instagram page. I have lots of free coaching content there as well. And I do launch a Mindset Academy group coaching program with a foundational six-week program. that kind of puts this in place. And one book that I'm going to give you, it's not a business book, but it is a business book. It's called The Alchemist by Paolo Coelho. And it's about the journey of life.

And when you start to approach your career from the perspective of the journey of life, it all starts to make more sense and gets much more fulfilling. And that book is an amazing example of that. Okay. Adding it to my cart right now. And the book, Do the Impossible,

is available on Bigger Pockets Now. Okay, my last question, What is the ideal person who should buy this book and what should they expect if they do? That is a great question. This book is for people that want to learn how to do more and be more. So if you're looking to expand your career or expand yourself or make more money, it's applicable to all of those subjects. It really teaches you how to open up and play life at a higher level.

Rob, any last words from you? Yeah, man. I want each of us to buy this book and have our own personal book club meeting to kind of really set the foundation for our business plan moving forward. David, what can people find you if they want your own personal knowledge bombs on the interwebs? Every time I hear someone talk about a book club, I remember the office episode where they had the Finer Things Club.

And they would sit around in like fancy hats and like and eat scoches and talk about pride prejudice or what it cracks me up every time. I just picture us sitting there saying, quite, quite with our pinky up drinking a cup of tea. Yeah, you can find me all over social media at David Green 24. LinkedIn, Instagram, there's a TikTok that we're making for our team called the David Green team. We're going to start making more content with that. I've hired a social media company actually that's going to help me put out more content. So thank you for asking that, Rob. And then you can also message me through bigger pocket. So I do my best to try to keep up with all the notifications I get through the bigger pocket system. But if you're cruising

around on bigger pockets, find my profile, send me a message on there. Let me know what real estate questions you have. We live to serve. How about you, Rob? Where can people find you? You can find me on YouTube at Rob Built. Go and smash that subscribe button and the like button. Drop me a comment. You can find me on Instagram at Rob Built and on TikTok at Rob Biltow. And feel free to hit me up on MySpace too. I don't know. It's probably still out there somewhere. There it is. Well, thank you very much, Jason. for the free coaching session. At least I hope it's free.

I don't know if I'm going to be getting a bill. When we get done with that, we didn't discuss it. And thank you very much for writing the book as well. I know that something, when I first got into educating people about real estate, I assume like most people do, that the information, the knowledge is all that's needed. If you just tell people what to do that, it'll work and they'll go do it. And I quickly learned that it's more nuanced and complicated than that and how you think the way you look at the world, what you believe about yourself plays a much bigger role

and what you do with that information. So thank you for providing value in that area that people really need. And Rob, thank you for doing a great job as my co-host today, as always. And sort of sitting in the seat that Brandon Turner used to sit in as we talked to his coach himself. Is there anything you want to tell us, Jason, do you have like a fun fact about Brandon that you can share that he would not get super mad about you sharing? That's not confidential. Yes, exactly. You know, he talks about it.

But, you know, it's pretty funny when he told me he doesn't think he could raise. He's not good at raising money. I thought that was one of the funniest things I've ever heard. I might have to talk to you about that, too, because I'm following in his footsteps. And I'm going to have to be raising money as well. So, well, you know how to reach me. Yeah. So, but, yeah, it's been an interesting journey.

I remember when he was putting the money for the house in Maui together. And I was like, don't, can't you just do this, right? So, but yeah, it's a continual growth and expansion for all of us. All right. Well, thank you very much for your time. Jason. Everybody, go get the book. Do the Impossible by Jason Dries. Brandon Turner's personal success coach. This is David Green for Rob, my partner in crime, Abasolo, signing off. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K. Copywriting is by Calicoe Content, and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes

only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included involves risk. So use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. BiggerPockets LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast.