BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 629: Brandon Turner’s 4-Step “Viral” Formula That’ll Bring You Deals TODAY

Episode Date: June 30, 2022

To real estate investors and real estate investing enthusiasts, Brandon Turner is a household name. Not only has he written one of the most successful real estate investing books ever published (The Book on Rental Property Investing), but he also pioneered the real estate podcasting, social media, and blogging space. Funny to think that only a decade or so ago, this massively successful capital raiser, business founder, and CEO was painting rental properties, just trying to quit his soul-sucking job. So how did Brandon do this so quickly, and what’s going on in the brain (and under the beard) of one of the most successful real estate investors on the planet? Surprisingly, Brandon doesn’t have some secret formula, world-changing analogy, or crystal ball. He simply did what he said he would do—look for deals consistently, make offers whenever he could, and close so he could move on to the next. If this sounds familiar to your situation, but you’re struggling to find success, you may find that his system is a little bit different from yours. Brandon gives valuable insight into the “machine-building” he’s doing over at Open Door Capital, how he’s successfully growing his personal brand, and why real estate investing success should never be a surprise. If you’re a new listener to the show, it won’t be long before you realize why Brandon Turner was (and still is) one of the most beloved voices for building wealth.  In This Episode We Cover: The four levels of entrepreneurialism and how to become the “architect” of your own life Building a personal brand and finding confidence when creating content The skills you need to grow a business and become the CEO The five-point “viral formula” Brandon has used to raise millions of dollars What it takes to be successful and how to create a machine that will find real estate deals for you And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Youtube Channel BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Pro Membership BiggerPockets Bookstore BiggerPockets Bootcamps BiggerPockets Podcast Get Your Ticket for BPCon 2022 Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Subscribe to The “On The Market” YouTube Channel Hear Our Interview with Jason Drees on Exceeding Your Goals Should You Quit Your 9-5 Job to Become a Full-Time Real Estate Investor? 10 Challenges to Seriously Consider BEFORE Quitting Your Day Job David’s BiggerPockets Profile David's Instagram David’s YouTube Channel Ask David Your Real Estate Investing Question Rob's Youtube Rob's Instagram Rob's TikTok Rob's Twitter Rob's BiggerPockets Profile Grab Brandon's FREE Masterclass Purchase Brandon Turner’s Best Selling Books Stay Up-to-Date On Your Favorite Real Estate Podcast BiggerPockets Podcast 543 with Gino Wickman BiggerPockets Podcast 584 with Jonathan Greene BiggerPockets Podcast 264 with Gary Vee David's Newsletter Brandon's Newsletter Invest with Open Door Capital Books Mentioned in the Show Traction by Gino Wickman Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki The Crisis Comfort by Michael Easter Long-Distance Real Estate Investing by David Greene Connect with Brandon Brandon's BiggerPockets Profile Click here to check the full show notes: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-629 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Check out our sponsor page! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets Podcast show 629. Success is not a surprise to anybody who's successful. In fact, it's surprising when you don't get it. If you had somebody driving for dollars three times a week, mailing all those things, had a sales guy answering the phone, meeting with people, and you didn't land a deal after a year, I would be surprised. I'd be like, wow, something went wrong in that system.

Obviously, the machine just was broken. But, like, I'm surprised because I feel like it should have worked. And I would say usually the reason those machines don't work. It's because you invented the machine yourself. What's going on, everyone? This is David Green. You are host of the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast here today with my co-host, Robert Abasolo. In today's show, Rob and I are going to be interviewing my former co-host and best friend, Brandon Turner, a staple in the Bigger Pockets community. So if you are new and you don't know who Brandon is, you are in for a treat. Rob, good afternoon to you. What were some of your favorite parts

of today's show? Oh, man, very tense show, man. I felt like Brandon was staring me down the whole time and like I'll step on on some shoes. No, I'm just kidding, man. It was really great. That's a good point. Like, what was it like to meet my ex? It was really great, man. I was like, all right, this has to be a good podcast or else or else I will have failed at my job. But honestly, I don't know if we've ever laughed quite so much, you know, since in my short tenure as a co-host on the Bigger Pockets podcast. So at a really great time, Brandon's always a hoot, as they say. We came up with the really fun acronym that will be revealing at the very end of the. the episode. We talk a lot about personal brand development and how you can use social media to

boost your real estate career. That's exactly right. So Brandon was instrumental in hosting this podcast with Josh Dorkin to get it started. Building it's what he is. He's the bestselling author of several books. One of them, the book on rental property investing, is the bestselling book in the entire real estate world, period, which is pretty amazing. He's also my best friend, which is really his biggest accomplishment. And about what it was like six months or so ago, I'd say, maybe longer. He left the podcast to focus full time on his company, ODC, where they raise money and buy apartment complexes, mobile home parks, really big cash-filling stuff, and make money

for their investors. So on today's show, we sort of get into what Brandon has done to build his email list, to build his social media following, to build credibility and trust with other people so that they are willing to lend him money and how our listeners can do the same. Before we get into the show with Brandon, let's get to today's quick tip. Today's quick tip is brought to you by Rob Abasolo. Listen, guys, if you are looking to jumpstart your real estate career, if you want to get into content, I think you don't need to overthink what kind of camera or microphone that you guys have.

All right, you know, at the end of the day, they say that the best camera on the market is the one that you have on you. So my quick tip is put yourself out there because even before I was raw built on YouTube, I was striking up partnerships. I was taking on investors, and I was partnering with people all over the place just by simply making content on social media and talking about my Airbnb journey. And you can do it too, guys.

You really can. How'd I do? That was amazing, especially because you had to make all that up on the mic. I had no idea I was going to drop it on. How dare you? Now, just an announcement to everybody. Today's podcast is going to be a little bit longer than usual.

We went into overtime because it's not every day that we get to have Brandon back on the show. And we know that the nostalgia factor will be pretty real. and high for many of you, which is exciting. So make sure you listen all the way to the end because there is a challenge that has been dropped between Brandon and I regarding our text letters. And I would love your participation and you don't want to miss out as well on Rob's amazing acronym that he created on the spot.

So listen all the way to the end, participate in the challenge. Please, Brandon isn't here anymore so I can just say vote for me. And one last thing, we have a great show today. And I want to provide even more value to you for taking your precious time to listen to our show. Branded the master of branding Turner has recorded a video for you to watch on that topic. And it's free. Head over to biggerpockets.com slash re-show to check that video out. Most investors spend more time chasing deals than reviewing their insurance. But a quick coverage check can be fast, easy, and one of these smartest ways to protect and even improve

your property's cash flow. As the months get colder, frozen pipes, icy walkways, and seasonal wear and tear can increase the likelihood of claims. And traditional insurance companies aren't always built to handle these claims quickly or smoothly. That's why more real estate investors are turning to steadily. They focus exclusively on landlords, whether it's a single-family rental, a burr-builders risk policy, or midterm holiday guests. You get fast quotes, flexible coverage, and protection for property damage, liability, and even loss of rental income. Now is the perfect time to review your rates and coverage. Get a quote in minutes at Biggerpockets.com. slash landlord insurance.

Steadily, landlord insurance designed for the modern investor. If the new year means getting rentals back in order, listings are a good place to start. Avail, part ofrealtor.com makes it simple to list a rental for free

and get it in front of millions of renters. One listing, one click, posted across 24 top rental sites. Avail even helps generate listing titles and descriptions to save time. More visibility means fewer days sitting vacant and getting your property rented quickly. It's a fast, free way to find renters

without the usual hassle. Get started at Avail.co slash bigger pockets. That's A-V-A-I-L-C-O-Sash bigger pockets. Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle, active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress? Here's a better question. What if you could buy brand-new construction homes,

10% below market value, in the best markets across the country, without making real estate your second job? That's exactly what rent-to-retirement does. They're a full-service, turn-key investment company handling everything for you. In some cases, investors get 50 to 75% of our down payment back at closing, plus interest rates as low as 3.75%. They've partnered with Bigger Pockets for over a decade, helping thousands invest smarter. If you want to do the same, visit BiggerPockets.com slash retirement to learn more.

All right, let's bring in Brandon. Brandon Turner, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast. I know nothing about you. I'm not sure how we even got you booked on the show or why you're here. So, Can you tell us a little bit about what you have to do with real estate investing and why we should be talking to you? Yeah, guys, it's such a good honor to be on deeper pockets of, I've heard a lot of good things about the show. But, you know, I don't know. My agent booked me. But so anyway, what do you guys talk about in deeper pockets again? Yeah, like how to spend money on houses and, you know, how to manage crazy tenants and stuff. That's a, that's a lame time. Let's switch gears today and let's talk about something more fun. Do you hear about CrossFit? Can I tell you guys a little bit of a little bit of,

CrossFit. No, I have it, actually. How do you know somebody? How do you know somebody's in CrossFit? They'll tell you. When they say terms like what? There you go. All right.

So I'm Brandon Turner. I was the host of the Bigger Pockets podcast for a long time. I don't know how many years, a long time, nine-ish years. And then there was a mutiny and Rob kicked me off. So now I live under a bridge somewhere outside of David's house. and he feeds me occasionally, and it's all good. So that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. For those that are new to the podcast, I'm a bit of an M&M to Brandon Turner's Dr. Dre, if you will. So Brandon's the man responsible for pretty much you hearing me right now and anything to do with me

having an opportunity other than real estate investing. So thank you for that and thank you for coming back. I just mentioned you on the show that we were recording about how I needed a really clever name. Rob, do you remember what I was saying I needed a name for? And I was saying, which brand was something about like the 1099 mentality. And then I believe you were like, oh, yeah, this is this is one of those moments where I really miss Brandon Turner. Yeah, we were talking about the fact that new investors have a very difficult time adapting to this space because it's an entrepreneurial mindset you have to have. You have to be creative. You have to have like the 1099 mindset, which is I got to figure out a way to solve a problem.

and that means that I have to work past 5 o'clock sometimes. Or I can work on a Saturday, not a Tuesday. Like there's flexibility. And when people bring the W2 mindset into real estate investing, they're just constantly frustrated because this world will not honor the way that they're used to thinking. And I was like, I wish I had a word for what that's like when their expectations are the W2A.

And that's, I was a little tear come down my cheek. Like, I wish I was always good at this. It was more than a tear. It was more. It was a sob. We had to tell the editor to, we had to. to have him cut out 10 minutes of David sobbing. Well, if you want to, if you want a real connection there, I don't want, we don't need to go

into this because we've talked about it on the show many times before. But the BPCon speech that I gave last year at, uh, what, 2021, right? And David, you came up on stage and did it with me. We talked about those four mindset levels of entrepreneurship, right? It was like the DIY level, which is like, how am I going to solve this problem or build this business? And then there's like the project manager level, which is like, I'm going to hire my, you know, brother-in-law or cousin or whatever, you know, some person I know to do that thing.

and then there's like the COO mindset, which is I'm going to build a business. And there's like the fourth level, which is like, I'm going to inspire a team and I'm going to be the visionary that leads it, but I'm not actually doing anything. Right. There's like the four levels. So here's why I bring that back to what you just said. People bring the mindset at which they were at their job into their real estate so often, right? So if they were a DIYer in their job, which 99% of jobs are DIYers, unless you're a middle manager, then you're probably a project manager, unless you're a CEO or CEO, then you're that. But you bring what you brought in, right? So when Jay Scott,

for example, book on flipping houses, Jay Scott. When he got into flipping houses, it never occurred to that guy to go and pick up a hammer. Because guess what he was at whatever, whatever tech company, I don't know if it was Microsoft or Google or whatever, but he was a project manager. That was literally his job.

So what did he do when he came in? He project managed. When I got into real estate, what did I do? I picked up a hammer because we carry the mindset in which we left our job or which we currently are at a job into our real estate.

And it's not always a bad thing, but it can be a limiting thing. So yeah, if you want to tie that into today's topic a little bit, the fourth level there, which I mentioned, I call the architect. It's like that visionary. They kind of inspire. And one of the greatest ways to do that is to have like a personal brand or a following of some kind or at least to have a good like reputation out there in the world. That's how you kind of elevate to that fourth level. And so that's why today when we were talking about what we're going to talk about today, I thought that would be a cool topic. Yeah, so do you feel like you have to do all, like, do you have to earn your right of passage in each of those levels? Or do you think it's possible to kind of skip around or kind of move from one to the other faster? That is the question. I mean, I could spend hours on this topic.

But here's what I would say to that. Number one is you do not have to. If there's one thing you take from today's show, I hope it's this. You do not have to move through them. Everybody does, almost entirely. Most people move through them, but you do not have to. You have a full, complete, 100% choice on where you begin. and where you begin matters.

Because, like, every level has a limit. You're not going to be a multi, you know, huge millionaire working four hours a week sitting on a beach if you're the DIY mindset. You just are not doing it because you, your money is tied to the hours worked. So you can choose, and this isn't easier said than dumb, but you can choose mentally say, I'm going to approach it this way. And it's give you that the hack for doing that, by the way. Remember those WWJD bracelets that everyone wore back in the 90s?

Like, what would Jesus do? It was like, should I smoke this, you know, cigarette? What would Jesus do? do and you point to your wrist and then you don't do it, right? It's that that concept, like I literally want to have a bracelet that says like WWEMD. What would Elon Musk do? What would Richard Branson do? So think of the person you want to, like, who is the ideal person in that category?

Whether you want to be a C-O-type level, you want to be a more of the architect level, where you want to be a project manager level, who is that guy or girl? What would they do? And that's the easiest hack to start thinking in that mindset. So yeah, you can choose, Rob, great question. That's very tangible. advice, I think. I have to remind myself that I don't always have to do everything. I'm kind of like in between two and three right now, but I want to be a four, but I don't want to quickly move up there

until I've really cut my teeth on like this 2.5 stage that I'm at right now. Yeah. Yeah, well, being at four, that architect level, not that I'm always there, but I feel like when I built like the current company I have, which is called Open Door Capital. By the way, I never explained the story. We can come back to that. I built a big real estate company. We did a lot of cool stuff. I was on the podcast for years. I wrote some books. But, When I built the current company Open Door Capital, which now we just, I think we just, we're right on the verge of 4,000 units. But when I built that, I said, I'm going to build this like an architect.

Like, I'm not going to move through it. I chose to build it as an architect. And so to do that, and this is my encouragement to anybody out there who wants to operate their business in that way to be Elon Musk or Richard Branson, the number one thing to do is to hire yourself a CEO or a CIO. And again, easier said than done. But that's the key is if you want to elevate to the next level, you hire the one at the current level.

If you want to stop painting your rental units and answering the phone when a tenant calls, what do you do? You hire a person to answer the phones and paint. So now you're a project manager. But if you want to just jump right up to the top, go hire yourself a good C-O-O. And here's the thing that's so powerful.

When you have an online presence of any kind, I don't care if you're experienced or brand new, when you start building that now, that allows you to connect with people and network in a much bigger way than you could ever do in the old world, like, you know, where you actually have to go physically to go handshake people. Oh, you can find people. I know.

I know. I don't like touching people. Now you get to touch people online, right? And it's way less creepy and less like germy. In the metaphorical sense. Yes. Yes. In the meta, purely in the metaphorical more meta, meta, metaphorical sense.

Anyway, so the idea being, this is like, like, if you want to elevate yourself, why would we want to do that? Because you make more money and you work less hours. I mean, that's, that's awesome about being elevated. and you get to inspire people. Having a good reputation, especially having a good reputation is key online because you can find people to work on your teams to get you to that next level. You can find your CEO, your C.O, your project managers, your whatever. So that's been my focus a lot the last like six months.

Ever since B. P.Con, I've just been like everyday thinking on this concept. So my thought was like I just gave you permission. I just called on you. You can't help it, man. You may speak. I can't help it, man. Yeah. I'll allow you speak now to ask a question.

David, what would you take it like when you're around your dad or something and you're getting to drive somewhere that he's like giving the keys and he drives your car. This is just how this thing works. Yeah, you automatically go back to the door. Like when I go home for Christmas to my family, right? Like I'm instantly like back into like I'm like 12. My sister's 13. My brother's 10 and 9. And we're like fighting in the back seat of a minivan.

It's like we're right back there again. It's anyway. David, what did you want to say? When you described your four levels thinking, right? I think there's a fallacy that people have that the DIY level is like the wrong way to do it. And the higher you go up this list, the easier it becomes. And so what you're trying to do is just put aside the temptation to do it yourself. And with every level, it becomes easier and easier and easier.

But that's not true. It's a different set of skills that you have to do. And there may be a higher value at being an architect versus do it yourself. But that doesn't mean that you just become an architect. You don't just say, I mean, there's a skill of project management that Jay Scott had built. And often that's what stops the DIYer from going up is they don't know how to win at that level. So what we're really describing here is how do you build the skills to be good at every single level? Because we do want to be progressing upwards, but it doesn't just happen.

You don't just get a promotion. And when you're at the level that you've achieved, Brandon, where you're raising money, you're hiring people, you're sort of calling the shots with Open North Capital. I was wondering if you would share what are some of the skills that you're you've had to build so that you can do those things to earn the right to get to the level where you're at now. Great question. Yeah.

So I'll lay out a few of them. So first of all, like if I want to move from DIY, so when I was originally got into real estate, right, just like a lot of people listening to this, my wife and I were out there until two in the morning, painting rental units every, you know, before a tenant moves in, we were taking all phone calls. We were doing all that stuff. So that is where we all started, or at least most people tend to start, is doing all the stuff themselves.

The skills needed to get to that next level. If we want to just jump one level at time, I want to go from that to project management. All right. So what do the project manager need to do? They need to know how to set like an out like a scope of work. Like this is what needs to get done. Now obviously this is industry specific.

So different industries have different requirements. But basically you're saying this is the job I'm going to hire you to do. I'm going to hire a property manager to manage my tenants. Like that is what my job is going to be. I'm going to hire a contractor to go do this job. And you need to keep them on time and on budget. Now I personally hate that level. I hate project management more than probably any other thing in the world.

Like, I would rather DIY or jump to that one. And this is why you brought the point. It's not that any of the levels are bad. Like, I like DIY. And there are areas of my life I choose to DIY business stuff because I like it. I like being involved with that stuff. But there are areas of my life that I really, like I don't want to be a project manager typically ever. So anyway, so if I want a project manager, I got to be able to set schedules for people and hold them accountable,

hire the right third party people, all that. Next, if I want to be a CEO. or like the CEO, C-O, however you want to call that. Like, you really got to understand how to, A, hire internally, because you're probably building an internal team at that point. But you need to know how to organize that whole thing. And this is where the book, Traction from Gino Wickman comes in really handy. And we had Gino on the podcast a while back.

It's like that is a system in which you manage all of those people in the organization. If you want to visualize this, by the way, a C-O, like that level, I think of as like, you're in the middle. and there are a bunch of roles around you. Like, you are the center, and you're meeting with all these people that are on your team, and you're inspiring them,

and you're pouring into them, and it's amazing. It's a cool spot to be in. But if you suddenly got hit by a bus, like, it's painful for the team because you were the team lead, you were running everything. You were like there as like the CEO.

That's the difference between the fourth level than the architect. The real skills you need to learn there are things like inspiration. You need to be problems, solving delegation at a large level. Not just like, hey, I'm going to let you choose how to run that, you know, whatever, how to paint that wall. But like to the point of like, you might even choose what properties we buy. Like you're delegating large things at that level. And really,

you're just working on brand. I mean, at that point, like the fourth level is largely about brand. Richard Branson can own 150 companies and raise all this money to buy these companies and do all this cool stuff because Richard Branson is a freaking cool individual. Right. And so people we're like, oh yeah, Richard Branson's doing it. Okay, yeah, let's do it. Oh, Elon Musk's doing it. Yeah, let's do it, right? It's because they have this persona that just radiates out energy from that level.

And because of that, like, the team can be built just based on that radiance. But the person's not in the middle. Like, they're not even involved. Like, they might not even know what's going on. I doubt Richard even knows half the companies he owns. But it's his energy that drives the growth of those. Does that make sense? So let's talk about that.

If you want to build something like that, what are some things that people need to be aware of that will work or what's a strategy they can have. But what have you learned since you've left the podcast about how to grow that personal brand? A couple of thoughts. I mean, we can dive as deep as you want on this. It's like I can do a master class on this topic here. First of all, let's talk about what a personal brand is for a second. Because I think, like I have a friend who's an attorney and very different mindset, like very W-2 mindset, but she always makes funny me if I ever say the word personal brand. Because she's like, that's no such thing. Either our person or your brand, you cannot be a personal brand. And I differ. Because the word brand, like if I,

I were to ask you guys about Coca-Cola's brand, what is that? Right. Is it, is it their logo? I mean, that's part of it, right, maybe? Is it their colors that they use? Is it the cute, like, snow, what is it the little polar bears that use at Christmas time? Like, what is Coca-Cola's brand? And this is how I define your brand or your personal brand is it's how people think about you when they think about you. Right? Like, how do you think about Coca-Cola when you think about Coca-Cola. And the answer to that, that the bulk of people, when they think about Coca-Cola, what they think about, that is your brand. So if people think of David Green, what are they thinking about is who David is? Like, I still think of, and largely books can help

with this, right? So I think of David as like long-distance investor. He's really good at that. He loves the birth stuff. He's awesome at the burst stuff. He's a real estate agent that's one of the best in the world. Like, when I think of David, I think of like ridiculously large, strong arms that are like bulging because I don't know if you guys have seen David lately but his his arms yeah his arms and shoulders look like he looks like the incredible Hulk but like a more handsome version and he's not green it's insane when I think of right when I think of David that is like David's like a large piece of David's brand and now getting into vacation rental stuff and like it's how I think of you is your brand and so I would argue that every single person

out there Rob you're included and everybody has a personal brand right now most of the time we're not even thinking about how to improve that or why that even matters. So that's what, when I say personal brand, that's all I'm talking about is what do people think about when they're thinking about you. You know, it's very funny to say all this because my former life before I was a podcaster, YouTuber, content creator, I was actually in advertising. I'm a creative copywriter by trade. So literally like my entire career.

Just this morning, I was like, I need a copyrighter to help me with some copy. I don't know a single copyright. I said that to my assistant today. I was like, I don't know a single copywriter. Look at that. The universe brought me one. looking at senior creative copywriter. All right.

Well, I'm going to need you to quit. I'm going to need you to quit this podcast and come help me on copywriting from now. All right. Anyway, keep going. Well, it's just, it's funny because of the amount of scrutiny that all of my clients had. Like, I worked for Gatorade, for Hyundai, for Sonic, for All Smoky Moonshine, you name it. I've worked for so many brands.

And there's so much scrutiny that goes into like the brand, right? And like, oh, that word, that's not very Hyundai or that's not very Gatorade, you know. And so my whole career. I'm like so scrutinizing like what brand really means. And now that I've quit advertising, I'm kind of like, eh, I'm fine. Like I'm good. I'm good to break rules and stuff like that. And so for me, I'm very focused on developing personal brand and who I am. But I really have to like really challenge myself to just kind of push the limits of what that means because I also don't really like being conformed to the box of a brand sometimes. Yeah, I agree. And I don't think

you have to define it like we are like Coca-Cola is a soda company. Like, as that That's not my brand. Like the brand's evolving. It's just like how do people think about you? I mean, like if you're posted on Facebook like like, you know, inappropriate comments all the time or you're negative all the time and complaining like when you're posted on or on Instagram comment that's just like that's the brand you are building. And people don't realize that that like the things you do today affect your building in the future. So going back to that what we said earlier about this idea of like does this apply? Does this concept apply to new investors or is this something I'm talking about people who want to raise millions of dollars like we do it.

It's it applies to. everybody, especially if you ever want to bring on a partner ever. You got to know that your partner's going to check you out online to figure out who you are. If you ever want to raise money in any sort, maybe you want to raise $100,000 to help fund a flip, you want to raise $100 million to buy an apartment complex and everything in between. Like the brand you build today, I mean, the brand you're going to have in the future, you're building right now, right? It's like that great quote, like dig your well before you're thirsty. If you ever think you're going to need to raise money from people, start building your brand today. And it doesn't,

doesn't mean you have to have a logo and colors and a beard or whatever. Like, you know, like, I go a little overboard sometimes with like the branding. But it's just pay attention to who you are. And, uh, and then if you want to be to supercharge it a little bit, you can get into the world of content creation, which is what the three of us do online. Uh, and we do that for a reason. Not just because we have big egos, but because it actually grows our business to crazy levels. Uh, it's like, I don't know. It's like magic. Isn't it? Like, remember back in the day, like, you'd have to, like, go to conferences, like every week and go speak and go meet with people and meet with hundreds of people. Then maybe a couple of them might invest with you.

And you could raise a few million dollars like, like over the course of 10 years of doing that. And now it's like, you could have a podcast or you could have a YouTube video or you could have a TikTok dance. And it's crazy. Anyway, Rob, I'm going to throw it to you in a second to ask about content creation specifically because you sort of did it from the ground up. Oh, I thought you just pulled a Kanye. Like, I'm going to let you finish in just a second. But be The Ronse was, you know. The real MVP, yeah, but... I was calling on David because he raised his hand.

Yes, yes. You see what you've done, Brandon? You've now put Rob in the position where he's like, I will allow David to speak. You have the floor for 30 seconds. See, Rob, let me teach you a few things about handling David here. For number one, you have to put him in his place right away. Like, it's like going to prison, find the biggest guy and knock his teeth out. Dave, you have to knock him out right away.

And then he'll do whatever you say. Keep going, David. That was the only piece of advice you had. That's it. It's hit David. Yeah. Just take one walk up and punch him in the mouth. You're fine. All right, David, you were saying, you know what's going to happen at BPCon now when I'm surrounded by just thousands and thousands of people that are like, yes. That's, yeah. All right. So, so Rob, you did it from the ground up without a platform like bigger pockets. So I think you have a lot to contribute to this conversation. But what I wanted to point about what Brandon said, what I don't want to get what I don't want to have be overlooked. There are certain phrases that in our industry and other industry, and other industries, they trigger a response that isn't really accurate to what the word means,

but it could be associated with things that people don't like. So, Heloc for a long time, like, we don't think about it bad now. But if I go back five years, 10 years, saying Helox made people bristle up immediately like enemy, bad, that's how you use Helox to do bad things and you lose your house. Appreciation, I mentioned several times, has sort of been lumped in with speculation. So when people hear the word appreciation, they automatically think you're taking a And I'm like, every time I say that word, I then have to go defend what I meant by when I say it because nobody's trying to understand. Networking has that connotation.

It sounds like you're walking around, glad handing people, handing out business cards, schmoozing in a very unnatural way that nobody likes, right? So we're trying not to say the word networking. What we're actually trying to describe is go meet people, make connections, build genuine relationships, and then they're going to want to help you. Brand has that same vibe to it. I hear like a lot of professional athletes are describing is I need to build my brand. And it just sounds very pretentious. It sounds like kind of douche. It's a, oh, like you're not that important that you need to have your own brand.

But if we use a different word to describe what they're actually saying is my reputation. The way that people feel when they think about me, that's very different. I could get behind that. And I want to highlight, this is what you're getting after is when I go look at like, say, Brandon's TikTok, or sorry, his Instagram, I was warned. by Brandon not to go on TikTok because it's addicting. So I've never actually done it. Dicting. But your Instagram tends to be very, like, inspirational and uplifting. And it gives me like a good feeling whenever I see it. Like it's kind of like like a puppy. Like you feel good when you're

going to see a puppy, right? Other people's Instagram give me the feeling of the feeling of this person just wants attention. They're posting things because they want to be noticed or they just want to be controversial for the sake of being controversial. They just throw things out there. to see what's going to fire people up. If you think about the way that you impact other human beings, it is an incredibly smart business move because other people will subconsciously make decisions about pleasing those they like.

So if you want someone to bring new deals, if you want someone to share their contractor with you, like you guys all agree, we don't share our contractors with just anybody. Like, you're not going to let your girlfriend get in a car with just anybody, right? You know this person really trust you when they'll leave you alone with their wife or something like that.

If people don't trust you, they're not going to tell you about the secrets that they have where they're really going to help you versus if they like you, they want to see you win. They are way more likely to give you those little ins. And so that's one of the reasons, Brandon, I think people know your heart is so good that they're more likely to lend money to open or capital because I would be thinking, Brandon wouldn't put a person on his team that's not a good person. Brandon's not going to put his name behind this if it wasn't a good product. And if you don't have that with your sphere of influence,

If people don't get that impression when they look at you, you're never going to know it, but they're not going to be sending good things your way. That's a really good way of putting that. You know, like, and I love it. You brought up the fact that like they see what I, they see me on social media. This is why social media is so, I think, so valuable for people who want to eventually raise money or bring partners in or build any kind of real estate business. It's because people like to do business with people they like.

So what's the fastest way or the, maybe the, not fast way, the best way to build like trust and like, yeah, Knowledge like and trust, right? Those like, know like and trust, like the three keys. Once they know you like you and trust you, people will want to work with you, give you, give you money, partner with you, whatever. So how do you develop that? And then more so how do you develop that at scale?

Social media allowed that more than anything else ever. And so people will watch me for years. I mean, there's people right now listening to this probably who listen to me for seven years on a podcast, eight years, nine years on a podcast, and then invested with me because they were like, oh, now I know him. I feel like I know him because I've seen how. I was there when his daughter was born. I was there when his son was born.

Like, I know how he treats things. Because we all kind of know how you do anything is how you do everything. Like, even if you've never said that phrase, subconsciously, if you've got a buddy who's always late to everything, always mismanagers his money, always broke, always struggling. You assume he's probably going to be like that if you were to give him 50 bucks to, you know, whatever. You just, how people do things is how people do things. So social media establishes your reputation over time so that you can cash,

on that in the future. And I don't mean that in a bad way, but you can, you can, you can, jab, jab, jab, right hook is what Gary Vaynerchuk calls it. You give, give, give, give, and then when you need something, you can ask. And it's the most powerful thing in the world. You don't actually nail this better than anybody else on Earth. Josh Dorkin, founder of Bigger Pockets, right? Because Josh, like, for the first, like, decade didn't, like, charge anything for anything for anything on Bigger Pockett. It was all just free. Pretty much entirely free. He had a donate button. You guys remember the donate button? It was a donate button. That's how Bigger Pockers made money, is people donated.

Why did Josh do that? Because he understood that if he can get millions of people to know, like, and trust this brand of bigger pockets, he could do whatever he wanted later. He could start a publishing company. He could launch, you know, whatever. It's, yeah, he just knew that. So, yeah, brand is, is huge. I think that a lot of people also, they over, they over, like, okay, what am I trying to say here? They kind of overthink what social media has to be because they see people like us, right? Influencers out there making content. Oh man, influencers is another word, David, by the way, that I'm like, that's another one. I hate ever saying that I'm an influencer, but content creators, I like that more. And they see

and they're like, oh, well, if I can't be that, then, you know, I'm not going to do it because I can't do it that well. But what I try to remind people for myself is that when I got started, you know, raising money and partnering with people, I wasn't raw built on YouTube. That did not exist. What I was doing was I was posting photos of my Airbnb's. I was like, you know, putting all my properties up there. I was showing people. I was always talking about it because I was so proud of my successes that I was like, you guys can do this too. And then I would have friends that reach out and they would say, hey, I see that you're really good at this Airbnb thing. Can we, I don't know, can we partner up? And I'd be like, sure, if you fund it, I'll run it. And so I got a lot of partners this way.

And this was far before I had any kind of platform. So for people that are looking to, you know, get out there. I always tell them, just put yourself out there because really just posting about it. You never know who in your life or who in your network or that random person that you went to college with on Facebook might be interested in actually investing with you. Well, let's take this a little deeper if we will. And this is going to be applicable to everybody. It's just uncomfortable. As a real estate agent, I'm often telling the agents that are out there, you need to make videos, you need to post things online. You don't want to be a secret agent in this world. Everyone needs to know, this is what you do. And the majority of them will come back and say, I'm not comfortable on camera.

And that sounds very humble. Like, you know, I'm just not a person that wants to put myself out there. I'm very private. These are the words they're using. Okay. But they're really passive aggressive, like, oh, it's good for you, David, to put yourself out there. But I just, I just don't have that big of an ego. I don't need that much attention as you. Yeah. I don't know. Exactly. Yeah, I don't need that much attention in my life. You know, some people, it's okay. For you. But yeah, that's how it comes out. Now, what I've learned is that's coming from a very defensive part of us because the reason they're not good on camera, I mean, there's a degree of like, you kind of got to learn how to do it

to a degree, but it's more they are not confident in their skills as a real estate agent. They don't know what's going on in the market. They're not a good communicator. They maybe sold two houses and they don't even know what forums they're supposed to use, but they don't want their clients to know it. And social media is an amplifier. If you are in attention hungry degenerate, it's going to show up. People are going to be able to tell this is how you live your life.

It's amplified for everybody to see every single pictures of your butt. If you're somebody who genuinely likes teaching or helping, it's going to show up. It amplifies what's already there. So when someone's not confident in what they're doing, it's very clear when they make a video. They can't hide it anymore, right? Like, I would say email is the opposite of an amplifier. It's like a diminisher. Like you can pretend to be a keyboard warrior when you're just typing a comment on YouTube

or you're in an email. Video and social media makes that harder. So what I've recognized is if you make yourself go out there and do what we're talking about here, the holes in your game, the flaws in your approach get exposed, your lack of confidence, your lack of knowledge. Whatever the problem is, you can't hide it anymore. And that's what everyone's actually trying to avoid addressing when they're saying, I don't like to post. And it's just an uncomfortable thing. There's a lot of cognitive dissonance associated with, yeah, that's why I don't want to make videos. So I'm going to throw it to you two.

did you have those emotions and what did you do to get over those when you both started making a lot of content? Rob, would you go next? I'll allow it. Yes, I would like to go. It always reminds you that scene in the office where Michael says, I'll allow it when he's being like at a disposition where he has to answer questions and they're like, Mr. Scott, can we ask you something? And he says, I'll allow it as if he's in like control. So, you know, funny story. Actually, I might have oversold that.

it's just a story. When I first started the Robbilt channel, I didn't tell anybody. I was scared. I was like, I'm stupid. I'm going to look stupid. This first video is really bad. And I'm not going to tell anybody. And so I posted my first two videos because they were bad. You know, they were bad. I knew that. I was very self-aware of it. But I was still proud that I put myself out there. And then on my third video, I went to the Reddit DIY, you know, subreddit. And I posted it. And I said, hey, you know, I started this channel. It's about DIY. Here you go.

I hope you guys like it. And it got voted to the front page. You got like 3,000 up votes. And I was like, and then my first video, like it got like 15,000 views in a day. And I was like, oh my gosh. I was like, maybe, maybe I'm on to something. And I was like, you know what? I am going to tell the world.

I don't care what the consequences are. I don't care if people laugh at me. And I posted it. And I made a big long post to change my Instagram handle from Roba Solo to Rob Bill. And this was a big deal because Roba Solo was my hand. handle for like 10 years. And I said, hey, guys, as of today, I started a YouTube channel. It's called Rob Bill. I'm going to teach you how to do DIY and weird, quirky ways, and I hope you follow me. And I was like, oh. And it turns out that everyone was incredibly supportive. Like everybody, sent

me, they commented. And that was, to me, it was like the big game changing day in my life was like, I put myself out there and so many people accepted it. And it's like, we are our worst critic, you know? I was in my head about it. But I'm so glad I did, you know? Well, me on the other hand, my first stuff was just flawless. I mean, it was, it was pretty much perfect. If you go back, you actually look at my very first videos. If you go back to, yeah, go to bigger pockets of YouTube channel and then go in like reverse order chronological. You get through a bunch of like really funny old Josh ones, which are like him talking to animals and stuff. It's great. And then you'll get to like my other videos. And they're there. I'm not going to lie. They're amazing.

You'll, you'll love them. And I have my cat. Of course. I think I talk like this. I'm like, hi. Hi, I'm Brandon. And this is how you do a helock. And I had a cat on my lap. I was like, stroking this cat. And it was, it's beautiful thing. You guys will love it. Check it out. Those videos, I would, like, I always thought when I see those, they look like a stock image of a Pacific Northwest youth pastor that, like you were. I love the Pacific Northwest. I know, oddly specific. Yeah. And you can tell from looking at it, that's exactly what you're getting. Like, you had those glasses, your beard was a lot shorter, your hair was a lot taller. I had a flannel shirt on. That's all I wore with flannel then. Super flannel. Yeah. Yeah. So here's the thing. You become, like the area you live. You guys notice that, right? Like, you just become like the people in the area you live. Ben Hardy wrote a book on that. What was the book he wrote about your environment having a much

bigger impact on you? Yeah, personality isn't permanent. That one? I'll look it up and see. It was a very good book where it's basically we give ourselves way more credit for how we turned out than really it's the environment that you get put in. I'm a huge, huge proponent for that. Like you guys became very good content creators because you were making content all the time and you go look at your video and you cringe and you go, oh, what was that? And I don't, don't do that anymore or ooh that part look good and as being in that space over and over that you've sort of have developed into now brandon you're like a much more handsome you're very good with the video quality that you're putting out like tell me honestly when you're if you start catching yourself

getting out of shape when you're on video more often do you is that an inherent like ooh i don't like how that looks i want to do something about it well i try to keep my shirt on for most of my online videos but yes it is it is a thing when i do take my shirt off on videos especially i'm I'm like, wow, yeah. Yeah. So I did a video. Looking at my videos inspired me to get in shape. Yeah.

I did a podcast. Yeah, thanks. I did a podcast a few months ago. And I remember how it came up, but somehow the idea of taking out of my shirt came up. And so I took off my shirt in the middle of a podcast. That was, I don't remember whose podcast that was. But that was a first.

No, I'm not doing it today. No, I just got off a three month long. I was on the road for 92 days on a road trip. In which case, I did not work out one time in 92 days. and I ate like crap for 92 days. So I'm not going to be taking my shirt off right now. Okay, but here's what I would say, Brandon. It probably the fact that you're not making content like you used to might have played a role

in why you let that happen. You're probably right. Right. And so that's what I mean by the environment does have a big influence on how we turn out. And if you put yourself in this environment of I'm telling people I want to buy real estate or I want to raise money so I'm going to talk about it, they're going to ask you questions that you're not going to answer. And it's going to create a hunger in you where you're then going to say, all right,

I need to go get these answers. It's going to help you by putting yourself out there. That's really the part I wanted to highlight is you can't wait to get ready. And when you think you're polished, be like, all right, I'm going to go make videos on social media. You got to start talking about it and letting that lead you down the road. Well, and could I emphasize also like there are numerous ways in which a person could build an online brand. Like video and TikTok and Instagram like video, that's one of the most powerful ways. And that's very common today.

But it's not the only way. I mean, there are people out there who just are. not going to ever be good on camera. I mean, maybe it's an limiting belief. But like, if your thing, if you're an amazing writer, you just like love writing. And okay, so find a way to make it writing. That's your thing. Or, you know, some people are amazing at LinkedIn.

There's really good at LinkedIn. I'm terrible LinkedIn. I don't understand it. But like Brian Murray has like, I don't know, 40. He's like my partner at Open Door Capital. And he wrote the multifamily millionaire with me. And like, he's got like 40 or 50,000 followers on LinkedIn. I don't even know you can follow people on LinkedIn.

I didn't even know that was a thing. But Brian's really good at that. and he never does a video. You'll never see a video with Brian ever, right? But he's got a ton of followers and he raises a lot of money for Opener Capital via LinkedIn. I happen to like YouTube, right? Some people like TikTok. You can do TikTok without your face.

You could just do text on the screen that like the little lady on TikTok reads, right? Like there's so many. You could start a blog. You could do a forum. You could just be involved in the bigger pockets forums. We haven't touched on that yet. But that's probably one of the most important things you can do, especially as a new investor. A lot of you are listening that are new thinking, well,

how does it apply to me? I'm not going to go create content. I don't even know what I'm talking about. So that's when you just get involved asking questions on the Facebook group or the forums. And you just start that magic networking thing, which is really just making friends with people. We had that guy on recently, Jonathan Green. He's like a big contributor to the bigger pockets forums. And he's like a legend in there because he's in there every day answering questions. And he sets aside time every single week to Zoom with people and just help help people. And I'm like, that's a very cool creative way to network with people that, you know, you otherwise wouldn't have met. Most investors spend more time chasing deals than reviewing their insurance.

But a quick coverage check can be fast, easy, and one of these smartest ways to protect and even improve your property's cash flow. As the months get colder, frozen pipes, icy walkways, and seasonal wear and tear can increase the likelihood of claims. And traditional insurance companies aren't always built to handle these claims quickly or smoothly. That's why more real estate investors are turning to steadily. They focus exclusively on landlords, whether it's a single-family rental, a burr-builders risk policy, or midterm holiday guests. You get fast quotes, flexible coverage, and protection for property damage, liability, and even loss of rental income. Now is the perfect time to review your rates and coverage. Get a quote in minutes at biggerpockets.com slash landlord insurance.

Steadily, landlord insurance designed for the modern investor. People love to call real estate passive income, which is interesting because most of the investors I know are very busy. Busy finding deals, busy managing teams, busy worrying they pick the wrong market. Rent to retirement flips that model. They help investors buy turnkey new construction homes, often 10% below market value in top rental markets across the country. Their local teams handle the build, the property management, and the details, so you don't have to. In some cases, investors even receive 50 to 75% of their down payment back at closing, and there are interest rates as low as 3.75%.

They've been trusted partners with BiggerPockets for over a decade. And if you want to learn more, visit BiggerPockets.com slash retirement. All right, rental property investors, listen up. Our friends at Dominion Financial already have some of the best DSCR rates in the industry. Now, they're the fastest, too. They just launched 10-day DSCR closing. That's right. 10 days, and they're still the only lender with the DSCR price beat guarantee.

That means faster closing, the best terms, zero guesswork, that's Dominion Financial. Check them out at biggerpockets.com slash dominion. Again, that's biggerpockets.com slash dominion. Managing properties can feel like a full-on circus. You're juggling vendors, tracking payments, chasing approvals across multiple properties, and maybe a few HOAs, all while trying to keep tenants happy and own. owners confident. One delay can throw everything off and suddenly your day is all clean up, no progress. That's why hundreds of property managers rely on bill to streamline their finances.

Bill for property management lets you add all your properties, assign permissions, pay bills, and receive payments quickly and efficiently without the usual bottlenecks. It syncs with platforms like QuickBooks, Zero, NetSuite, and Sage intact, so your accounting stays aligned. You can automate bulk payments across properties and HOAW. Choose flexible payment methods like same-day ACH, international wires, card or check, and set custom roles in approval policies. There's even a dedicated bill inbox for each property to keep everything organized. Ready to simplify your workflow, book your free demo at bill.com slash bigger pockets,

and get a $100 Amazon gift card. That's bill.com slash bigger pockets. So we've got, I want to get into the different ways that you make content on different platforms, But I'm sure, regardless of what platform you're operating in, there are certain key components to the message that you're really trying to nail down. Can you share with us, Brandon? What are some things that every content creator needs to make sure that they're including in the message and how they could go about doing that? So someone has kind of a bit of a blueprint if they want to start making online content. Sure, man.

Yeah. So the first thing I'll say, I actually have kind of like a framework for this. I'll tell you in just a second. But first, I'll say this is one of the mistakes people make when they're creating content in our space, like in a real estate or a business setting. is they forget that this is not like Kylie Jenner showing off her makeup. Like, this is not about us. Like, in the fashion world, you can just post picture yourself smiling and people like that. What we have to think in the business world is how does this help the person who's watching

this? Like, every post should be considered. Like, how does this help the person watching this? Whether or not it's, you write a blog, I mean, a post on Facebook or you did a video or whatever, how does this help that person who's watching this and help a lot of people watching this. And so starting with that, I think is key. And then let me like lay out this little framework here. All right. I want to make sure I got it right. So I wrote it in here somewhere. All right, there it is. I call it like, I'm calling it today the viral formula,

even though it's probably a terribly generic name. But the idea of like, I watch a, oh yeah, the VF. Okay. Yeah, the VF. The VAL formula. The trademarked that right now. Yeah. And actually, Rob, so you're, I would, I would say Robb's got even more experience, especially on the YouTube front than I do on this. I'm much more of an Instagram guy. Not that you. and not both on Instagram as well. But like I see this especially in YouTube videos I do really well. And I see this on TikTok and Reels and Instagram videos that do well. I see it on blog posts I do well.

And here's what I wrote down. So if you're listening to this, take some notes real quick. This is number one. First thing your content piece should have is what's called the hook. Because if our minds go so quick. We scroll so fast. You do it too on Facebook, Instagram, whatever. Everything's so fast.

You have to grab a way to hook them real quick and pull them in. So the hook could be something, whether it's a physical thing, like the camera does some kind of movement, or it could be you're doing some kind of thing, like you're put your hands in the air or your point of the camera, you're doing something funny. Or maybe it's a clip from later in the video, if it's a video where it pulls like a funny, like outtake from later on. Just something that in like three seconds or less hooks them. Or on like TikTok, for example, it might just be a message.

Like it might be like, like in this video, I'm going to say three things that are going to make you a multi-millionaire, guaranteed. I just said that in what, less than three, four, five seconds? Well, now, yeah, right now I might have hooked somebody in just enough to watch the rest of the video. So as stupid as it is, we have to do it. The only videos that you're seen typically have some kind of hook. I was to argue a blog post. Typically, the only blog post gets seen.

If you're not interested in the first sentence, like, you're not going to read on. In fact, I heard a famous author. I can't remember if it was Stephen Pressfield or Stephen King or somebody once said, the purpose of the first line of your book is to get somebody to read the second line. And the purpose of the second line is to get them to read the third line and so on and so forth. So you've got to hook them in. All right. So number one is the hook.

Number two is what I call the tease. And now this might be connected to the hook. It might not be. So the tease is basically this is what I promise you're going to get in this video. So, you know, so if you had a hook that's a little different, maybe your hook is like, like, how would you like to be a multimillionaire in 30 days or less, right? That might be a hook. Then the tease would be like, in this video or in this blog post or in this whatever,

I'm going to share this with you. And that's just one example, right? There's a million ways to do the tease, but you want to let people know what they're going to get when the video's over. Again, that's really, really quick. The third thing I always add in there is some because of credibility. Now, if this is on a platform like Facebook where everyone's following on Facebook anyway, they already know who you are, your followers, it's not as big of a deal.

If you're trying to reach people on like Instagram Reels, which is brand new cold traffic, you don't know who they are, or TikTok or YouTube, you've got to establish some piece of credibility so they know that you're legit. So something along the lines of like, you know, I'm Brandon with Open Door Capital. We've raised $100 million in the past three years. to buy real estate. This is why I'm qualified to speak on this topic. Like, that's what you're saying is, this is why I'm qualified to speak on this topic. Like, hey, I'm a CPA that works for investors. Hey, you know, whatever. So we got hook, you got T's, you got creed. And then the fourth thing is gold.

Like, you've got to give them something that they can take away from that piece of content. The biggest mistake I see people make in the content space is they give way too much gold. Or what they think is gold. They just go on and on and on and on. In reality, is it simple? Is it easy to grasp, easy to remember. Is it unique? Is it actionable? Uh, and see you got the hook, tease, creed, gold. And then finally a call to action of some sort. If you're trying to build up your following, hey, don't forget to like and, uh, like and subscribe. If you're trying to, uh, you know, whatever, trying to get people on your email list. Hey, join my email list by going to this URL. Go to beardybrandin.com and get on my text letter. Right. Those kind of things. Quick call

to action. Otherwise people just won't like, like it's not like they don't like you. It just never occurs to them. Oh, I should follow that person. or I should subscribe to their list. So tell them what you want them to do real quickly. And one little trick is sometimes I will put the call to action earlier in the piece of content by just saying something like, and hey, as I go through these five points, if you like this, just hit that heart button real quick. It just helps me out.

Thanks. Number one. And that way, if they don't watch the whole video, they might just hit the heart button right there. They didn't even watch it, but they'll still click the like or the heart. All right. So I want to know first, based on that, I'm going to review it one time and then I want to know, Rob, your thoughts on this because you're the genius on this.

So I came up with hook, tease, cred, gold, and a call to action. I don't have a good, what's the word? I don't have an acronym for that. Yeah. We need an acronym, so I need a the thesaurus. This is a homework for everybody listening right now, by the way. Hook, tease, cred, gold, and call to action. Somebody put that into an acronym somehow, like, use a the thesaurus.

We're going to have a word for that, and then that's going to be trademarked for bigger pockets. All right. Rob. So I want to give you the, well, first of all, let me give you the, uh, the advertising kind of corporate version of this, but what we used, we used an acronym called Chubs. And it was a-acadam. Oh, look at the acronym.

But yours is way cooler because ours meant crop. So if we were making a commercial, okay, so basically, if we were making a commercial for, let's say, Hyundai, we'd want to make sure that it could actually crop to be square and fit the format of your phone. Then it was hook, which is exactly what you're talking about. Like, how can we edit the front end of a commercial? to get straight into it. And then usage, which is like how much of that commercial do we actually need to communicate to people on social in 15 seconds or less, branding at the end, meaning we'd

want to get the logo out there to make sure that, you know, people knew who this commercial is about. And then sound off, meaning people who have their phone, their volume off, which is like 90% of people. How can we make this work for people? Meaning that's putting the subtitles on there. So that is a way less cool, it's a cool, a name. It's a cool acronym. Yeah, but way less cool than the actual bullet points that you put up there. And I think, I think you kind of nailed it, man. I mean, it depends on the actual platform that you're going for. But if we're talking TikTok, I did a lot of TikToks and I failed. And then one guy reached out to me and was like, man, we got to blow you up. And he had 300,000 followers. And I was like,

all right, teach me master. And so he was basically like, gave me like a quick one hour consultation. And literally like the next video went viral. And the biggest piece of advice he gave me was like, you got three seconds. Stop saying like, hey guys, it's Rob. Don't forget to follow. And it's like say, hey, here's why you're going to fail at starting an Airbnb. Boom, hooked them. And then that's all my format now.

Whereas on YouTube, yeah, you know what? I could probably grow faster on YouTube if I followed exactly what you're talking about. But I tend to do kind of like funnier intros that kind of hook people in that way. But, you know, I'm an acquired taste admittedly. So it doesn't always work. YouTube's a little bit longer form, right? It is. Yeah.

allowed to. This is one of those I think of know the rules, then break the rules kind of thing. Like once you understand the logic, like the psychology behind what makes things popular and go viral, then you can start playing with it and trying different things and get quirky and get your own, like take on it. So yeah, I love your videos. In fact, like, it's one of the videos I looked at when I was kind of come up with this formula is like, what does Rob do? It's like, this is like, like, what makes it successful? And I think you, you do this masterfully. David, you do too. I'm, in fact, David's like skill on social media has gone through the roof in the past few months. know what you're doing or who you're stepping it up but he is stepping it up so you guys are not following

david green i hired a company to make my god for me because you sir are an architect mentality you're at level four man yeah that's the hard part what would you on musk do there you go i mean it's really hard because i am such a because of the i don't know it's hard for me to turn it over to like a different like i have one editor and him and i are just going back and forth all day and we are to the point where i need probably three or four if i don't know if i I really want to go Brandon style with like Instagram reels and TikToks and everything. But it's hard because I just know that I can't manage the creative the same way that I can with like one video a week on YouTube. But yeah, it's kind of the struggle with like, do I want to just slowly grow or do I want to like, you know, try to amp it up a little bit?

And I think, you know, slow and steady for me has been the game. Well, let me throw out another thing. I did not invent this thing. Gary Vaynerchuk's the thing, the guy who really blew this concept up. I don't know. There's probably a name for it. I don't have a name for it. But I'll explain the strategy.

And again, Gary was on our podcast back. I don't remember what episode a few years ago. But the idea is this. You do one, and this is literally what I do. I spend maybe an hour a week total on all content creation. I do one long form piece of content. Usually it's a podcast, whether I'm on somebody else's show or when I was doing bigger pockets.

One piece of content. I always record my video separately just so I have one. If you don't have a fancy camera, that's okay. Phone actually probably does just as well, if not better. on most platforms. So record yourself doing something, like an interview for an hour. And then I just hand it over to my virtual assistant who is awesome. He's over in the Philippines and he just takes it and dices it up into a bunch of different

content. He makes YouTube videos. He makes Instagram. He makes TikTok. He makes reels. He makes everything. Even like pulls out like paragraphs that I said in that content. It makes like a physical post like a text post.

Like all that from one hour. And then like every day I just have like three pieces of content. coming out and I don't do any of it. I just got that straight from Gary Vaynerchuk. It's one long porn content can be put into about 30 different pieces of content. So anyway, just throwing out there for anybody who's like, I don't have time to make all this content. Just see if you can't get booked on a podcast once a week or once every once, even once a month. You don't need to put out as much content I put out. When I mean, just the fact of being on a podcast itself, here's something a lot of people don't realize. I'm going to let the cat out of the bag in

our world. Saying you have a podcast is a lot like saying I wrote a book. It's not hard anymore to write a book. You can self-publish a book insanely easy, sell three copies, and it will be a bestseller in that category brand. I know you have some really funny stories about how easy it is to make it look like on Amazon that you're a best sell. Yeah, the foot thing. Podcasts work the same way. It's not nearly as difficult to get one on. It's very difficult to make one good. So first off, a lot of the podcasts you're listening to don't assume that the person that you're hearing it from has a lot of credibility. They might have 12 listeners and half of it is their their family. But no one knows that. So getting on someone else's podcast and then putting that on your

Facebook or on your Instagram and sharing with the world, I was interviewed to tell how I do this thing really well, will give your brand, for lack of a better word, some credibility, right? And it also invites people to get to know you. They get to hear your story. They get to hear you talk. They get to see kind of what makes you tick, which creates that connection that you're describing. So I think going on other people's podcasts, even though you're not going to maybe get heard by a ton of people because most podcasts don't have a ton of listeners. It's something that you do for your own circle to get an opportunity to hear you speaking. And then, like you said, you can take clips out of that and you can run with that for months.

You just take clips of some of the best stuff you said and you create reels and you put those out there. What do you think about that? Yeah, that's exactly it. I think that's exactly what you should be doing. It's just so it's easy to be interviewed. I mean, it's easier to be interviewed than it is, I think, to try to just like come up with a script and produce a 10-minute video. It's like you sit on Zoom and you record a video. And most people are pretty good at answering questions, like about themselves and about their own life.

Right. Like, this is super easy for, is it easier for me to be a guest on the show than it was when I was a host, right? Way easy. I just sit here and answer your guys' questions and then take over the show and allow David to talk once in a while. What's that? Let me talk once in a while, though. He said. Yeah, I do.

Yeah. I think simply Googling real estate podcast, you'll get a huge list or search on iTunes for those and just start emailing the people that have them and saying, hey, I own three duplexes in this area. come be a guest on your show. It doesn't have to be huge. And the majority of them will be like, absolutely, I'd love to have you on. I have been having trouble making shows because nobody knows who I am and wants to do my show. And bam, like you've got some, and you're also getting some experience speaking and articulating yourself and communicating and it puts you in the environment that we've been describing about. That's such a good point. I'll let another cat out of the bag here

is that energy on a podcast matters almost as much, if not more than your, what you say. What I mean by that is like, yeah, the actual quality of your content. And I'm not saying on the Bigger Pockets podcast, we want people who don't have good content. We do. But you can't have good content without good energy. We will can your, we've canned shows before because people have not had a good enough energy. And so by going on smaller shows, you develop the skill set needed to get on the bigger shows where you can bring the energy. Like I don't naturally talk like this in real life.

When David and I are having a conversation, like if we were to record ourselves just talking without any cameras, be like this, be like, yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't know. I mean, it's okay. Like, yeah, I think I'm going to go to the gym later. You want to go later? Okay. Like, that's like, like, that's what we talk like normal people. But you develop the skill of like this. I'm talking. My hands are moving. I'm like excited. And so you gain that skill by going on smaller podcast. Now let me throw the question to you guys. What about those people listening right now who have no deals? They've not done any real estate. What are they going to go on a podcast? So what do those people do? Any suggestions for them, Rob?

That's a, that's a hard one. I guess that's what I gave it to you. Yeah, I was going to say, I mean, I think I would rather, oh man, I guess I would rather put them more in the content creation and like learn what it takes to get your first deal and document that journey and create content around, hey, I'm looking to get my first 10 steps. Sorry, I'm looking to get my first property. You know, hear the first 10 steps that I'm going to take to do that because you can actually document a journey. Whereas on a podcast, typically you're speaking retroactively about experiences. that might have happened. But the thing is, as David mentioned,

I mean, there's a million podcasts out there. So it's not like you have to get into a podcast right here, like right now. I think you can wait for that, right? What I think what you can do that's actionable is use your phone to just make content. And, you know, a lot of people get really caught up on photo quality. And they're like, Rob, your videos are so crisp and this. I'm like, dude, my first viral video was shot on an iPhone. And, you know, my editor always says that his teacher used to tell him that the best camera on the market

is the one that you have in your pocket. Yeah, exactly. So I think, you know, and for me, just to be straight up, like on TikTok, my really terrible quality selfie videos on my iPhone perform significantly better than anything that's super crispy. And that's why I actually don't do a lot of TikTok. Like, I have a huge following on there, but I post, you know, a TikTok like once a month because it takes me two hours to record and edit it. But, you know, that's all part of the process. So I think if you're getting into real estate, you know, document your journey and try to like create a business plan for where you want to go and just make that into snackable content for people to watch. I really think it's it's that easy. Yeah, I love that answer. And I think like what my thought went to is like not every piece of, not every platform is ideal for every person. If you're brand new, yeah, you shouldn't be interviewed on podcasts about your journey. You should probably be doing something else like you just said. Maybe on TikTok you make a like I'm about to buy my very first duplex. Follow along. You know like, you know, follow my my process. Today I'm going to do this. Right. People would eat that up. They would love that. Or they might not and you at least gain some experience in doing it. That's cool too. Dude, that's what I did on YouTube. I mean, I really wasn't like I was at the very beginning of my real estate journey. I wasn't an expert. I was very green. And literally my

content was like, hey, guys, I just built this. Here's what happened. Here's what went wrong. I'm going to do it again. Watch my journey. And my whole, like, if you just watch my YouTube channel over the last two years, it's really just a progression of how I've leveled up little by by little by little. And if you just look at my video today versus like two years ago, it's a whole different person. But it's not because, I mean, it's just because I've just been doing it. undocumented it. That's all it really is. Well, let me throw one more strategy at people who are maybe brand new. And they're like, well, I can't create content. I'm brand new. I don't want to do TikTok.

Right. Here's a very simple strategy. Go to a go find 15, 20, 25, 30, 50, 100 people in the real estate investing industry, like the three of us, right? Follow us on Instagram or whatever platform you like the best. Go unfollow everybody else that you, that you follow unless like it's like your mom or something. Right. So like you should like Russell Brunson, who's a, the, CEO of a big marketing company. He says, like, you should be a creator of content, not a consumer of content. Like, I'm not telling you to go sit on TikTok and swipe. That's, you should not be doing that. You should be going out and buying real estate deals. However, if you're going to go on TikTok to swipe or if you're going to go on Instagram to swipe

or you're going to go read a bunch of blogs, they should be on people that you want to get to know better and you want to build a relationship with because they're going to be a big part of your life in the future. So here's what you do. You go find those 10, 50, 100 people. You follow all of them and turn on. post notifications so that you get a text, like not text, but you get like a pop up on your phone. Hey, Brandon just posted. Hey, David just posted. Now, why is that important?

Because you go and leave a comment right away. And not just like a, hey, good job or a thumbs up or an emoji, but you leave a thoughtful comment about that whatever they said. Now, there's a few people who do this to me. I know they've read the same books I have because they do this to me. And every single time I post anything on my Instagram, I get these really like paragraph long comments that are really helpful for people. And guess what?

other people see them commenting and go and follow them. And so they're building this big platform by just doing that to other people. And they're just providing value in the comment section. And funny, actually, one of the couples that do that all the time, they're on the cover of the BP, you know, Bigger Pocket's Wealth Magazine. So it clearly works for them, right? Like they built the whole brand around it, around just commenting on other people's stuff. So that's something that if you're brand new, anybody can do that right now.

Just go follow, turn on notifications and just comment right away with a really thoughtful comment and you will start gaining people that are following you just because of the help that you're providing there. You know, Brandon, what are your thoughts on the idea that we tend to see the end result of a ton of work when someone else posts on social media? So I'm noticing there's this trend of realtors that are saying, just help my clients buy this house or investors just picked up this duplex. It's a lot of hard work, but I got it. They're showing you the closing. But you're not seeing the 17 properties they analyzed and didn't get or the offers that were written or like the process to get to that point. And I think it creates the impression that you're just

wandering through life in the real estate investing world. You step on something it turns into a duplex. You're like, oh, there I got a house. And people are waiting for their moment when it's going to hit them versus being intentional about putting these stages because that's not shown on social media nearly as much. Like you don't see the process behind it. So I know you're a person that likes to focus on build a machine, don't chase an event, right? Like, yeah, the same like maybe a workout picture. You see the end result when somebody's been training for this, you know, uh, competition like like Tony Robinson.

He, he posted some pictures at the event, but he didn't post himself at the gym working out every day. What advice can you give for the reality of what it takes to be successful here being different than what you're seeing on social media? Yeah. Yeah, really good, good stuff. Yeah. What you said there is like, build a machine, not an event, right?

In other words, what I mean by that is so many people, this is how they think of, I mean, this could be buying a real estate deal, right? Like, the event is I'm going to go buy a real estate deal or I'm going to go and I'm going to go drive for dollars today. Let's go there. I'm going to go drive. I'm going to get my car. I'm going to drive around for the next two hours.

I'm going to write down every single property that looks vacant. And I'm going to write down their address. I'm going to come home and I'm going to look up who owns the property. I'm going to send them a letter. And by the time, you know, five o'clock hits tonight. I'm going to have at least 20 letters out in the mail. That's great. Right? That's a great strategy for getting a deal.

I almost guarantee you none of those 20 people are going to call you. And so what you're going to do is you're going to be like, well, I did it. It didn't work. I mean, you're going to give up. The truth is if you want something to work, like don't do the event. Don't do the one day. One day I went out and drive for dollars or one day I made a video on YouTube. Ask yourself, how do I do this every single solitary day or three times a week?

How do I build this into a repeatable machine that over the next six months, 12 months is going to produce the result because it'd be ridiculous statistically not to produce the result. So an example would be I'm going to do a drive for dollars every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday from three to five. I'm going to hire a VA who's going to take all that and they're going to send the letters for me that I generate. So all I have to do is get my car and drive. Or I'm going to hire a high school kid to drive every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. They're going to upload it to this site. The VA is going to take it from there. They're going to send the letters out. And from there, it goes to the people. And now all I have to do is answer my phone. You can go even bigger than

that. I'm not going to answer the phone. I'm going to hire a call service. One of my buddies runs a, I think it's called call magic leads. They like do like the outbound calls. So they find the phone number. Then they call, uh, they call all the sellers or the homeowners and they ask them if they want to sell their property. And so now only the really important leads are coming to you. But then you go and build a machine that hires a, a salesperson for your team that answers those phone calls. Do you notice how like at every level, you can build the machine bigger and bigger in getting you out of the work. But, Now, if you had somebody driving for dollars three times a week, you had somebody sending all those people letters, you had somebody answering the phone that was good at sales and talking to people

and trying to convince them to sell the house, if you did that for the next 12 months straight and never missed a week, are you going to land a deal? Is there any chance you wouldn't land a deal? No, but that's not what people do. People want the event. People want to do it one time. They give up. So what I'm saying is focus on the machine. Don't focus on the event because the machine is what gets you the success. The reason we were able to buy, and I think we're at like $400 million almost in real estate in the past three years with Open Door Capital. The only reason we've been able to do that is because we just built a machine and we make like 75 offers a quarter on massive deals. We have a machine around that.

We have a machine around investor relations growing our email list. We have a machine around all of that stuff. and it just gets done. And if you're anything like me, like you're not good at getting things done sometimes. Like, I'm terrible at getting things done. So I just hire other people to run the machine for me. And then it actually gets done.

So that's a much longer conversation. But there you go. There's a lot of wisdom in what you're saying. And I'm trying to think of the best way to address this without giving the wrong impression. I hope it's an analogy. I'm sure one of them will be, yep,

which one just popped in my head right now, as you said. Yeah. In this world of education, we have to give people value that they could not. We can't just say go out and do something, even though that's the best advice to give anybody. Just go start doing it.

You will find your way. But they're not listening to us to be told. Just go do it. They want something they wouldn't have known from an experienced person. So what we end up doing is kind of saying, here's the end result and here's the steps you're going to take and walk you back to where you are. So you have some idea of a path.

That's what people are looking for. The problem with that approach is your brain doesn't work well. when you're trying to learn things you haven't done yet. Like we could say, hey, here's what you're going to do when you get to this step. It just doesn't sink in, right? And I notice here's the analogy that this will come up with something like jujitsu. I will want to sit there and talk to a person who's a higher belt and say, what do you do when this happens or how would you get out of that?

Okay. And like it, I'm receiving it when I'm in a certain state of mind. But then when I get out there on the mat, I don't remember anything that was said. It actually isn't practical information when I'm in the middle of rolling. The way I learn is actually the opposite. I get out there and roll. A thing happens that I can't fix and I'm hungry for the information. I come back and say, how do you get out of this thing?

And then they tell me and I'm like, boom, like I got it. I will never forget that. I don't want to experience that feeling again. Now I've learned. And that's what I'm trying to highlight is this is why we say you have to get out there and you have to take action because your brain remembers the lessons and they become a part of you when there was some form of pain that was social. with getting out there and doing it, not just sitting here and hearing the story sort of laid out

for you of perfectly how this should work. Like you said something, if you did this for a year, could you possibly fail? No, you would have to get a property. Like one of the things I've noticed is if someone's like, well, I'm not sure, should you do this bench press or this style? Should you do that one or this? No, just if you work out as hard as you can every single time you go to the gym and you have decent form, is it possible to not get stronger? Yeah, it's you guaranteed. Impossible. That's it. If you just go to the gym and you say, hey, I've got some basic exercises. I'm going to do as hard as I can for as long as I can and then I'm done. You have to get stronger. Go ahead. This is where that phrase comes in that I say all the time now. It's like success should

never be a surprise. In fact, my best performing Instagram post of all time was me just talking about this. Success should never be a surprise. Nobody ever wakes up and they're going, whoa, where did I get this six pack from? Like, where'd this come from? Like, nobody wakes up and goes, whoa, I'm a millionaire. Crazy. I'd no idea. Like, success is just the natural result of the process in which you do. And yeah, once in a while people win the lottery, but they end up losing it because

they don't have the right process. So like, success is not a surprise to anybody who's successful. It's, in fact, it's surprising when you don't get it. Like, if you had somebody driving for dollars three times a week, mailing all those things, had a sales guy answering the phone, meeting with people and you didn't land a deal after a year, I would be surprised. I'd be like, wow, something went wrong in that system. Obviously, the machine just was broken.

But, like, I'm surprised because I feel like it should have worked. And I would say usually the reason those machines don't work is because you invented the machine yourself. You didn't learn from somebody else. I mean, we're lucky right now. Like, we're in an industry that millions and millions of people do and share freely what they're doing and have done so for hundreds of years. Like, we're in like the easiest industry in the world to learn how to do stuff. and then we're in the greatest market we've ever seen for that. We are in like the YouTube and the blogs and the content for like the courses that are

out there, the mentor, like everything is just there. Like you have no excuse. And so if you're like, well, I don't know what to do. Like, I don't know. That's a problem. Well, that's the value of a machine though. If you work at the thing, it's going to happen. Like I love what you said.

It's impossible to not happen if you're taking these steps. And so I love that advice. It's like what the people that are good at something do is they focus on the machine, not the end result. They don't wait for just the property. You want a real example of this actually? So by the way, so I can teach this stuff and I sound like I know what I'm talking about.

But I like I screw up this stuff all the time. Like I'll focus on the event and not on the process. I'll give you a real example. I'm driving with my wife and my kids on our road trip. We just did three months around the country. And we're on the road. And I'm talking to my wife about how we just landed this massive apartment complex deal in Texas. It's like we've got to raise like more money than we've ever raised before.

It's like, I don't know, 50 or $60 million. I got to raise. And I'm like, I'm like, shoot, Heather. I don't know. Like, I don't, like, I don't have a big enough email list to be able to raise that much money that quickly. Like, that's just so much to raise. And I was like, so I guess I could like, I could go on a podcast, you know, maybe talk

about it. And she goes, well, that's, what's that going to get you? And I was like, I don't know. And this is what Heather said to me. Like, she didn't talk to me. She's like, Brandon, it's not about going on a podcast. It's not about making a post. She's like, why don't you go on two podcasts every single week for the next six months

straight. Would that get you what you need? And I was like, yes, they probably will, or at least they'll get me a closer, right? It'll get the word out there. Or like, and again, like, I need to be reminded of that. It's not about the one off. It's not about doing the thing. It's about what machine can I build. So then I call it my assistant Matt. I'm like, Matt, I want to go on two podcasts every single week for the next six months. He's like, okay, I'll make it happen. And all of a sudden, now I'm scheduled all these podcasts scheduled out for the like, and I'm like getting the word out there. I'm like, this is how it's supposed to work because now I have a machine to be able to raise that money. So that's just one example. But there's so many ways in life that if we just

turn things into a system into a machine, it actually will get done. Yeah, you can also, outside of a podcast, you can also like make appearances on certain YouTube channels and that kind of stuff too. You know what I mean? Yeah, but I don't know anybody who has a good YouTube channel. That's true. I know. We're always looking. We're always looking. Rob, we should do some JV stuff together, man. Yeah. Do it, man. I was telling the agents on my team, they had a client that they worked with for over a year, and they finally put him in contract on a two and a half million dollar property. We were talking about like, well, what was that like?

And he was describing how it was very difficult at first because the guy was calling every single day to ask a bunch of questions, and he wasn't in a position to buy anything. And I remember the advice I gave them was like, you got to stay in touch with the person, but you can't let them monopolize your entire schedule if they're not ready. in our world, be ready to sell and that world be ready to buy a property. And so they worked it out to where they just consistently stayed in touch over email and text messaging until he got to a point that he was more serious. And I was telling him, every person you work with is eventually going to buy a house

once they've been qualified. It's kind of like turning the little thing on the jack in the box. If you turn it long enough, it's going to pop. The key is setting up a system that your arm doesn't get tired before the jack in the box pops. right it has to be effective turns you want to be able to use your energy wisely you saying i'm going to go on for the next six months i'm going to do two podcasts you don't have to pick the perfect podcast at that point You don't have a lot of stress about like, oh, what if I make a mistake? You've got a lot of opportunity over this period of time. You're not going to get discouraged.

You're going to keep turning that crank and then eventually it pops. And that's what the advice I'd love to people to leave with is when you're making content on social media, you want to raise money to help buy your next deal. You want people to be bringing your leads, whatever it is. The first content you make is going to suck and who cares. Because I would love it if people would go back and look at Brandon and Rob's original stuff and be like, oh, Brandon doesn't sound nearly as polished and tanned and handsome as. is now as when he was first recording. I mean, you're a bit of a goober.

I mean, when I first met you, you weren't even as polished as where you are right now. You come very far. And that is very encouraging to everybody who's thinking about, I'm not going to be good at it. Like, you're not good when you first go to the gym. You're not good when you first do anything at all. It's the machine that you build. It's the commitment to the process.

It is impossible not to get better if you keep doing it. Can I add two more quick points to this that I think are valuable, especially for newer investors, this first one? So I've been teaching on Bigger Pockets webinars now for like seven years in a row, right? And David, you've been teaching a lot. Rob, are you doing webinars yet for BP? Yeah, yeah, I just did one last week. Okay.

All right, good. So you guys know what I'm talking about it. And if anybody listening has been on a webinar before, you've probably heard the term lapse, LAPS. This is some like acronym I put on a webinar years and years ago and I just, I beat it like a drum, dead horse. I don't know what the phrase is there. But I say it over and over and over and over and over. And every time I get a speech, anytime I talk to new investors, I say it. over and over and over. And it's exactly what we're talking about today. LAP stands for you've got to

get leads coming in your business. You've got to analyze those properties. You've got to pursue them, which means go after them, make an offer. And then once in a while, that will result in a success. Now, why do we beat this drum so hard so often? It's because that's the machine. If you want to land real estate deals in any market, competitive or not, if you get leads coming across your desk, you analyze them and you make offers, you will. land success. It's not a surprise. So like that's why I said earlier, my team makes 75 offers a quarter. That was just a number. We were, we worked backwards to figure out we get about one in 10 offers accepted. So if we make 75 offers a quarter, we'll get roughly seven to 10 offers a quarter accepted on

mobile home parks or apartments. And it exactly worked out that way. That's how we've bought in so many properties. So I don't care if you're trying to buy your very first single family house or a duplex or a flip or a wholesale deal or an apartment complex doesn't matter. The LAPS system works. Everybody uses it. But the people who are the best in this industry, they know the system and they're always working to improve it. And so like, it takes all the mystery around like, how do I find a deal? I can't find a deal.

It's just LAP. And then you get S. So that's the encouragement I have for you is just, if everyone listening, is like, take the mystery out of it, build the machine and let that machine work. Now, the related point I want to make as well is I am like the laziest person. Like I'm really not a, I'm not good at like self-control. I'm lazy and I have terrible work ethic. I'll admit all those things.

I'm not good. If I say I'm going to go to the gym, David, when's the last time I went to the gym? Like I don't go to the gym unless David shows up in Maui. Yeah. No, like when's the last time I went to the gym? Like it was with you. Like the time I go to gym.

Every string I can to get you in there. Right. So like I am, I will tell myself I'm going to the gym and then I will not go to the gym because I'll be busy doing something else. I'm so bad at doing things, even things that I know are vital to my success and existence in life. Like, I know I need to work out. I know I need to analyze deals.

I know I need to make those phone calls. I know I need to, basically, I know I need to work these systems. I'm so bad at doing it. I recognize that. So I can fight against my, my nature to be lazy or I can hack my nature. And here's what I mean by hacking your kind of your nature is I find ways to obligate. myself to do those things. Like, I have a personal trainer show up in my garage and he shows up.

Now, am I going to work out if Jerry is down in my garage? Yeah, because he's here in my garage. I don't want to make him waste his time to come all the way out here. So when I'm feeling moments of like inspiration, like, oh yeah, I should work out next week. I'll find a way to obligate myself to do that. And I do it with all sorts of things. Or I hire an employee or a team member to do those things. Because as an employee, it's really easy to do those things when Dane things

because you're getting paid a job to do it. But as an entrepreneur, I'm really bad at it. So that's how I either hack my nature by either hiring someone to do it or making somebody show up that obligates me to do it. So hopefully I help somebody out there who's in a similar boat just being lazy like I am. It really helps. Rob, you're pretty lazy. What do you think about that? Yeah, I like that. Yeah, it's kind of like it reminds me of the whole like putting your So, okay, like putting your phone sort of far away with an alarm so that whenever, you know, the alarm goes off, you have to get out of bed. You know, it's kind of like, yeah, you're working against your own flaws, right? Yeah. Yeah. My thoughts on that are, are that I agree. And I wanted

to just bring this full circle, you know, Brandon, because while we've been talking, I've done it. I've cracked the code. I've made your glorious acronym. No, no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, are you ready? Let's hear the that. Okay. Better be good. All right. I'm going to. calling it geese all right so g is going to be get all right okay get you get you got to get them all right that's your hook entice all right i like get right you got to tease them right you got to entice them with a little bit of knowledge establish okay establish credibility right and then gold right show and tell right show and tell show up give a performance make them feel razzled dazzled and then at the very end encourage that's your e encourage them to to take to take some action today if

follow you, you know, click that like button, hit the notification bell. And that, my friends, is geese. It's the geese method. You heard it here first. Thank you. The bearded geese. Yeah. What's the line, David, the people person? I'm a geese goose. One of the best memes you ever posted is it's this like old pilgrim, like Puritan holding a goose in his arms or her arms. And up at the top, it says, I'm a people person. And then near the goose, it says, I'm a geese goose. and something about it just like hits your funny bones so hard when you see it. I don't know like the whole image together. And we were talking about that earlier.

That's funny. So good. So good. All right. Well, Brandon, if people do want to follow your content, if they want to invest in your properties,

where do they find you? So I'll give you a couple spots. If you want to see like how our kind of funnel works, like when people join our email list, we actually have a text message list. That's at beardybrandin.com. Beard with a Y. Beardybrandon.com.

We didn't really talk about that today, and I don't want to dig into it too deep, but I'll make the one point on that. Social media is great, but you do not own your followers on social media. Mark Zuckerberg does, right? Like, you don't own it. Google does.

In other words, you can be shut down. Your account can get hacked. You could lose everything. It happens all the time. And if you all don't have two-factor authentication on your devices, do it right now. Please do it right now. Everybody's getting hacked right now.

Yeah, everybody's getting hacked right now. But anyway, so number one, you don't own your people. You have to get them on to an email list. You need people's email or their phone number. That's how you're going to connect with people in the future, which goes back to what David, you said earlier, is keeping that warm with text messages. So we have a text message list. Again, beardybrandin.com.

David, you have one as well. Behind the shine. I like that. We got behind the beard behind the shine. And why do we have that? Because I need people's emails to communicate with them. If I ever want to write a book, if I ever want to launch a fund, if I ever want to do a meetup and say, hey, I'm going to be in San Francisco.

Who wants to come hang out? I want to do that via text message or an email. So anyway, that answers your question and offers some more, hopefully, advice for people, is get an email list of some kind. And you can join mine at beardybrandin.com and Beardie Brandon on social media everywhere. Yeah, let's have a challenge here. I want you to go download Brandon's text letter at Beardybrandon.com. and then go to DGTLive.com slash text letter. So it's like David Green Team Live.

Who's is better? com, yeah. And not only do I want you to see who's is better, I want you to comment on each of our Instagrams to say yours was better or on Brandon's, his was better because mine, I'm like the bad guy in a movie where like I specifically engineered like a weapon that could take out this specific superhero. Like I studied Brandon's text letter and I'm like,

how could I make mine better than his? because everything he does is more aesthetically pleasing than anything I've ever done. So I really, really, really need to know that my text letter is better than Brandon's, and I'm okay to admit that. So please go follow it and then see it and tell us what you think. I have a severe problem with yours, though, like a real problem with yours. That's kind of irritating me. You have a logo on yours of your face and your body.

And your arms look like they're like little chicken arms. And look at your arms right now. Give me a flex, David. Let me see your arms. Let me see your muscles. Let's see it, man. This seems so bad. Let's see it, man.

No, I want to see your, I want to see your Hulk arms. Look at David's arms. Those are not the arms in his logo. So whoever designed your logo needs to put on these, like, man arms on your logo. Like, you should be like hugging your logo like that. Yes, you need like, you need to show off the guns, man. Because you got guns. You need to show them off.

Don't be so shy, Dave. That's my problem. You're making my face red on the podcast for 200,000 people to be seeing right now. That's what we do. Thank you for that. Anyway, yes. Yeah. Don't let that distract you from seeing if mine is better than Brandon's. I really need to know how we did.

By the way, we have behind the beard, which is my text letter, which goes out every Wednesday. Oh, shoot, I forgot to give Matt my, I got to do that right after this call. I'm going to give him today's behind the beard. We have David's behind the shine. What is Rob's behind the what? We were sort of a- What's your text letter are going to be? We were sort of like kind of workshopping this just now.

I think it's beyond the quaff. Okay. I think I don't know how to spell that. So I make a problem for C. O I. We're going to go with it. Quaff. I was going with Q. I was way off. That's honestly understandable. It's surprising to me that quaff is spelled with the C. You can also go pompador. I was thinking like you're the only one of glasses here. I was going to go with something on that. But that's okay. Oh yeah. A riff on lenses or frame, something like that. I'll workshop it. Yeah. Ooh. Ooh, that's good because you're like the, hmm, the video guy. That's right. Well, I spent all I spent all my creative juices today on the on the acronym. So I can really only do like one that was pretty good yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna workshop that a little too anyway all right where were we at we are so uh off track plus david yes beardy brandon dot com or odc fund com if you're an accredited investor please give me your money because we're gonna take down some big deals there you go absolutely i'm david green 24 check me out i got somebody running my social

media now tell me if you think that i should keep him or if i should fire him um because That person is me. And then you can find me on YouTube at Robbilt, R-O-B-U-I-L-T. A lot of misinformation out there. People call me Ro-Bilt. It's Rob-Bilt, you know. Instagram, Rob-Bilt-A-Bilt-O, and TikTok, Rob-Bilt-O if you want to see me dance, the real estate game.

And the last thing that we will all say here is all of us have people faking our accounts and messaging you to get your money. The most recent one was David Green, Backup 24, and it says, this is David's private account. So now my DMs are full of people saying, is this you? None of them are me. Dude, I got literally 20 text messages

from all of my friends today because I guess someone did the exact same thing. It's so frustrating. I'm like, oh, guys, I, well. All right. Well, thank you very much. Brandon Turner. Any last words for we let you get out of here?

No, do you guys not do the famous four anymore. Do we kill that? Do you want to do the famous four? You're going to miss. No, I mean, I just, did you kill it? I mean, we just, it didn't make sense to do it with you. Whatever. Famous for

Question number one What is your favorite Real Estate book? There's a million of them But I'm going to say The same answer I've said every time Somebody's asked me this

It still is rich dad Poor dad Question number two What is your favorite Business book I think we should change The Famous Four question To what's an impactful

book you've read recently? And if that was the question you asked me I'm going to go with a book called The Crisis of Comfort I don't even know

who wrote the book But it was phenomenal I recommend it to everybody It's not even a business book per se but it is a book about doing hard things, which I think applies to business. So I'm going to go with that book. And then outside of, let's see, how can I throw you a curveball here?

Okay, outside of jiu-jitsu, surfing, hanging out with your daughter and your wife and building a real estate empire, what are some of your hobbies? Buying stuff from pottery barn. Buying stuff, that's a good one. And so we have been buying thousands of dollars with the stuff from pottery barn. So that's my hobby these days. It's just buying stuff from potty barn. Rob, do you see now? why I say you and Brandon are like the same person.

I love pottery barn. Like it always got bad rap and like TV and stuff, but it's legit. And crate barrel. No, you go in there and it's like, it feels so good. Yeah, Crate Barrel show. I agree. I agree. Anyway.

Where does Bed Bath and Beyond fit into this? Oh, low tier. I don't know if we're going to have time. I mean, yeah. Anyway. All right, Brandon. In your experience, what makes successful investors different from those who give up, fail, or never get started?

They build a machine. Well, usually I'd tell you to tell us where people, yeah, yeah, we already asked. So, I mean, how about you just leave us with, you know, a little golden tidbit and then we'll end there. If you really want to do something, you'll find a way. If not, you'll find an excuse. Jim Rohn. That's good.

That's it. I'm just quoting somebody else with tidbit. It was like my favorite quote. I didn't say it had to be original. Isn't that good? Yeah, here's why this is such a powerful quote. Let me say it again. If you really want to do something, you'll find a way.

If not, you'll find an excuse. Because people listen to podcasts, like they listen to watch YouTube videos. And the natural reaction is to find a way to why that won't work for you. You will, like Gary Keller and J. Pappas then wrote on the one thing. If you argue for your limitations, you'll win every time. And people do constantly. This is why this episode won't apply to me. I'm not good at this.

I don't want to build a brand. I'm not good at that thing. If you argue for your limitations, you'll win every time. But if you really want to do something, if you really want to raise money, bring in partners, bring in team members, build your team, you know, raise private capital, all that stuff. You will find a way. You will get good at the social media, the branding, the reputation building if you really

wanted. If not, you'll just come up with excuses. So stop your excuses and go make some money. All right, Brandon, we're going to let you get out of here. Thank you for being back on the show. It's a great time. For BiggerPockus.com, this is David Green for Rob. I'm bringing tidbit back Abasolo, signing up.

Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K, copywriting is by Calicoke content, and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own.

Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk. So use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. BiggerPockets LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential, or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast.