BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 659: Beat the Grind: Make Millions in Real Estate by Gamifying Your Day-To-Day w/Luke Rotvold

Episode Date: September 8, 2022

Nobody likes cold calling. Even just the thought of cold calling is enough to make seasoned real estate investors start to sweat. The waiting, debating, and constant rejection can get to anyone. So why not take the stress out of a tense situation? Why not make cold calling a game? Luke Rotvold decided to do just this. As a new wholesaler, he was used to spending hours on the phone every day. He got so bored that he started playing video games while negotiating with sellers. Surprisingly, it didn’t distract him—it made finding deals far easier. Luke severely leveled up his cold calling skills during those eight-hour long Madden marathons, and eventually started making enough money to build his own team. But Luke didn’t want to start something that felt like a drag to the workers, employers, and everyone else in between. Instead, Luke built a lifestyle-first business, where everyone wins (and loses) together, and coming to work feels like an escape, not a prison sentence. The results speak for themselves as Luke and his team have been able to crush massive wholesaling, flipping, and investing goals. Luke has made hundreds of thousands on flips, tens of thousands cold calling, and now watches as his cascading cash flow rolls in from his buy and hold investments. He breaks down his four tips to gamify your real estate business so you, and your team, can build wealth together. In This Episode We Cover: Why cold calling is such a difficult skill to master and how making it fun will get your more deals Creating a company culture that outside employees will be envious of The four ways to gamify your real estate investing so you can enjoy getting more done Sharing the wins, and losses, with a team so everyone rises together  Incentivizing not only your employees but yourself by building powerful goals Partnering with those you work with so you can collectively build bigger portfolios  And So Much More! Links from the Show BiggerPockets Youtube Channel BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Pro Membership BiggerPockets Bookstore BiggerPockets Bootcamps BiggerPockets Podcast Get Your Ticket for BPCon 2022 Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Learn About Real Estate, The Housing Market, and Money Management with The BiggerPockets Podcasts Get More Deals Done with The BiggerPockets Investing Tools Find a BiggerPockets Real Estate Meetup in Your Area David's BiggerPockets Profile David's Instagram Rob's BiggerPockets Profile Rob's Youtube Rob's Instagram Rob's TikTok Rob's Twitter 5 Cold Calling Techniques That Really Work No. 1 Most Effective Way to Master the Art of Cold Calling Which Company Culture Cultivates Competency? Books Mentioned in the Show: Top Five Regrets of the Dying by Bronnie Ware The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari by Robin Sharma Connect with Luke: Luke's Instagram Luke's YouTube Click here to check the full show notes: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-659 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Check out our sponsor page! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast, show 659. Something that's big is we give our entire team so much freedom in the sense if they ever need anything, if they ever want to take a trip. They don't even, they can ask us, but they really don't even need to. It's done. It's done. So, I mean, you know, there'll be times when, you know, anyone in our team, they can say, this is coming up, this is going to do this.

Perfect. You're gone. Have fun. Enjoy it. And enjoy your time with the family. And so we've made sure that everyone knows how important it is to us. that they get their time with their family. What's going on, everyone?

This is David Green, you're a host of the Bigger Pockets Real Estate Podcast, the best real estate podcast in the world by far. I'm here joined today by my co-host Rob Obisolo, wearing a John Mayher t-shirt, the first time I've seen him in a printed tea or anything that isn't just a plain black tea that he got out of a plastic package at Costco.

Rob, tell me what do I owe the honor of this privilege to? Okay. I'll give you the truth here. All right. So look, I used to be a big graphic tea guy and then people on the channel and I'd be like, where'd you get your shirts? And then I watched this video that was like, why I wore the same shirt for the last two years.

And I was like, man, that's a great concept. I'm going to wear a black pocket tea every single day. And then I moved to Houston and everything is hot and literally all my black pocket teas are like drenched in the laundry basket right now because I've been filming content outside. So, you know, part of it is, It's laundry day, but also I think it's time to bring back the pocket teas. I think I'm going to start reintroducing that in the wild here.

So you're doing that thing where you try really hard to look like you're not trying hard by wearing black pocket keys. That's right. You know, it was a game for a long time because I was really trying to find the best black, the best black pocket tea. So it wasn't from Costco. You know, I really, I went to some pretty niche online stores to find them. And I think I did. And, you know, also I had a kid. And I'll tell you what.

Black Pocket Tea while having a kid who's always spitting up was just a really bad idea. So I lost a lot of good shirts due to my son, Rook. But that's all right. You know, I'm rebuilding still. Well, on the topic of games, that's a great segue into today's show. Rob and I are going to be interviewing Luke Rotbold, a wholesaler, cold collar, and real estate investor who is crushing it in the Phoenix area. Luke's got a great system of getting properties under contract, wholesaling, or flipping them,

and then taking those profits and then putting them into multifamily real estate where he is building up his cash flow. Kind of a cool little system of moving money along a conveyor belt, amplifying it every step. And part of the success to Luke's system is turning boring, menial, and routine tasks into something fun by using games. He's known online for getting people under contract and speaking with leads online in his wholesaling business while playing Madden. And he's taken those principles and applied them to his company where he keeps his team members engaged and motivated by turning things into a game. I thought this was fascinating, really smart, and a way to try to take work and make it fun.

Rob, what were some of your favorite parts of today's show? It's always interesting to find out people's systems, right? And his system here, the gamifying everything is really cool. And you could think, oh, well, you know, that may not work for everybody. But when you actually look at his business, he told us he was doing 75 flips a year and about 110 deals a year in total. And I think that's really impressive. So it's really fun to dive into the psychology of this

and basically how to make every little aspect that could be looked at as a menial thing, fun and challenging in a good way. So I think we'll learn a lot about the way you can set a culture in your company too and how to make that somewhat of its own game as well. Absolutely. This is a really fun show. So I would recommend everybody who's listening to this one to just share it with somebody else because this is one of those things that makes people think, hey, real estate investing

actually can be kind of cool. It can be kind of fun. It's not just a grind. And it's not just this crazy scatterbrain, just run around to do a million things. There actually is some intentionality that you need to embrace to make. to make some progress. And we talk a lot about progress in this show and how important that is to the human experience

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That's not the job. The job of a property manager is protecting and growing your operating income and earning your trust while they do it. And that comes down to three numbers, occupancy, delinquency, and net promoter score. If those numbers slip, your income slips, and your trust slips too. And most PMs don't hold themselves to performance standards. They focus on activity, not outcomes. Mind is different. They obsess over the metrics that actually grow your cash flow. Go to mind.com slash show me to see how mind performs and get a month of management for free. Because if you're going to hire a property manager, hire one that manages your investment like an investment. Before we bring in Luke,

today's quick tip is look for ways to gamify your own life. Are you trying to get in better shape? Are you trying to build your cash flow? Are you trying to build your net worth? What are your goals? Are you trying to build a team? Find these principles that would work for you that motivate you and apply them to business. I'm a firm believer that business does not have to be different than your personal life. What works for you in your personal life will usually work for you in business. So look for a way to bring those two things together. And speaking about having fun, go to biggerpockes.com and get your tickets to BPCon 22. It's going to be in San Diego, one of the nicest areas that I've ever been to. And it's going to be a blast. Rob's going to be there. And he might even be wearing

one of his black pocket teas. It's almost guaranteed. And I hear David you're going to be giving the keynote there. So a real special. treat for anyone that's joining. I think we're not sold out yet, but I think by the, pretty soon it'll be sold out. So you'll definitely want to grab your tickets. Again, that's Biggerpockets.com slash events. And you just got Rob's Garan Black Pocket Tea. All right, without any more ado, let's bring in Luke. Luke Rotbold, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm stoked to be here. Yeah, we're excited to get to know you. So tell me, what does your portfolio look like right now? Oh, boy, right now, we're pretty much going heavily into

multi-family and Airbnb's. So I know a lot of people that do like, you know, strictly just single-family and just because it's obviously easy and it's safe. If we go single-family, the only option that we will even think about with it is going to be an Airbnb. And then everything else is multifamily. So right now we've got a 10 unit being built in Sedona. We're going to do 10, that one's actually kind of crazy. We're going to do 10 Airbnbs with that one. So that's going to be a pretty wild project. But we've got, let's see, we're at 39 units. So 39, 39 doors right now, 10 being built in Sedona.

And then we've got a 32 unit new build that's being built downtown Prescott, which is just a couple hours north of the Phoenix area as well. Okay. And what about your business? Business-wise, business-wise, we're on pace this year to do 75 flips. So 75 flips this year. And, you know, we should do right around 110 deals is the is kind of what we're on pace for this year. Okay.

That's pretty impressive. So let's hear about how you got started. Like how did you get into your first deal? What brought you into real estate? Yeah. So really? I mean, I started cold calling. I joined a team.

And so that's kind of how some people have heard about the, a little bit about my story is I started cold calling, you know, an hour, two hours a day. And then obviously it's one of those things where cold calling is monotonous. It gets old. It gets boring. So I started implementing playing Madden while I started cold calling. When I did that, I started cold calling like five to six hours a day, which obviously when the average person is maybe not even calling an hour or two per day and then you start calling five to six. I mean, obviously the amount of context that you're making, the ability to perfect your craft, the ability to get better at what you're doing is just, just blot. by people at that point. And so, so yeah, so once that kind of started, the deal started coming in pretty regularly and, you know, started just wholesaling, started on that team. The team that I was on kind of broke apart. And so then I went and started a, I started my company with my, my best friend, Jake Landis. And so we've got our team now, like I said, started with, with cold calling,

started with wholesaling. And we've kind of just taken that path at the, and we've kind of just taken that path that the, you know, I'd say that the average wholesaler takes in the sense that they would like to take where we went from wholesaling to flipping, to keeping properties, you know, to with rentals into, you know, we're at the point now where we're starting to do a lot more developing now. So that's kind of the path that we've taken, if you will. Yeah. So like when you were playing Madden and making these cold calls, do you ever have anyone that sniffed you out on that? Like, were you ever like, oh, what? And you're like, nothing, nothing. all the time. Oh man, that's, that was, unfortunately, that was like, that was like the number one thing that I had to try to like cut back on. Um, so I mean like, okay, so this is kind of the path that it was, that it went is like, okay, I, I, I first started just in arcade mode when I was hopping on Madden, right? And I'd be like, okay, like, I'll try to just go ahead and see how it goes and maybe I'll try playing while I'm calling. But obviously the number one most important thing for me every single time was the cold call because I'm working. You know what I mean? Like that's why I'm doing this is to try to get deals right now, right?

So it started with that. And then I was like, once I got comfortable, I was like, okay, I'm going to hop on and do Madden online right now, right? Like I'm going to start playing online because it's more fun and it's more competitive. But then the thing is, is you only got one pause. So you get one pause a game. So you're like, okay, I got to use this pause like very sparingly. Like so whenever you, you know, whenever I'd have a lead where I had to like write all

the information down, that was when I'd use my pause. But there's times where, yeah, you'd start getting multiple, you know, you get multiple leads in that, in that calling session. So, yeah, you had to kind of adapt and, you know, figure it out. I'm sure you had to take, you know, take one for the team, take a few L's in Madden to close a couple of deals. Yeah, unfortunately, but it's like, you know, when at the time then, our average wholesale was probably like, you know, 25K. So it's like, yeah, okay, 25K or do I want the extra win right now in Madden? You know, I think, yeah, I think you made the right choice.

I think the 25K probably pans out in the long run. Yeah. You sort of mentioned you were taking five to six calls a day. I think that's really important. A lot of people... Yeah, calling five to six hours. Yeah, five to six hours. That's really important.

I think a lot of people, you know, they hear about wholesaling and they hear about the off-market deals and they'll only put in, you know, one or two hours and they don't get success and then they quit. But I remember I was talking to a buddy of mine who said that he didn't get any sales for his first like two months or something like that. He didn't get into any wholesale deals and, you know, he was working part-time. But then he finally got his first one and started really data tracking how much time he really needed to put in.

And so he realized he needed to put in an average of 80 phone calls or talk to 80 people before he could close a deal. And so as soon as he did that, he mathed out, okay, it takes me four hours a day to call 80 people and blah, blah, blah. And he mathematically figured out that, you know, for every eight hours, he would get a lead or something like that. So I'm kind of curious, were you ever at that point where you were tracking exactly your conversions or anything?

100%. Yeah, there's no doubt about it. That was actually, to me, when it started getting real, where I was like, okay, I got to stay on the phones. I have to. There's no question about it. Because I ended up breaking it down to how much I was making per hour while I was on the dialer. And that number, when I found out that number, I was like, bro, like, this is insane. So to me, that it was, I don't remember the exact number, but it was something along the lines of like, I was making like $560 per hour that I was on the dollar. dialer. Like that's what it broke down to for like, you know, how many leads I would get, which, which, you know, how many hours I had to be on the phone, which turned into the lead,

which turned into the deal. And obviously that was, that was the number for me. It was, I was making like $560 an hour for every single hour that I was, you know, actively on the dialer playing Madden. Wow. $500 an hour. That's like a, let's see, a full-time salary on that. I think comes out to like $1.1 million or something like that. So that's a pretty motivating number to chase. Yes, exactly. So I mean, that was when it really all switched for me. So what was the moment that you started closing enough deals to where, I imagine at some point, you were playing Madden, you were closing, and then you got so good at this that you're like,

okay, it's time to take this to the next level and just hit pause from the start. So what was that transition like when things really started to heat up? Yeah, I mean, I'd say that it kind of got to that point where it was like, okay, now, you know, once you start closing some wholesale deals, you start having some money, right? And so obviously the thing is that when most people are starting wholesaling, they don't have any money. So it's like, you know, cold calling is a good way to start because it is a low barrier of entry. It's fairly inexpensive versus, you know, say a PPC or versus, you know, direct mail. I mean, everyone, if you're getting started in wholesaling and you go like the direct mail route and you have a couple, say you have a couple, you know, goes at it and they all end up empty, like that can sink you.

That could literally sink you right, you know, right off the bat. So cold calling is kind of nice in that sense where it is, you know, a little bit less expensive. But, I mean, once we started, once we were able to kind of basically start stacking some cash, then it was like, okay, you know what? Now we can start kind of building a team, right? Because we can afford to start paying some people on the team. And so, I mean, that was, that was really the main, the main time was, I don't know if I would necessarily put like a dollar amount on it.

But that was when we started building the team. That was also when we started kind of looking into flipping. Yeah, man. And so I know that you kind of have a few, you know, given the background, I think this led to you creating some gamification strategies, right, for you and your team. Can you walk us through a few of those and how those shaped your business? Yeah. Well, I mean, I mean, personally, this is, in my opinion, you know, if you're building a business, if you're starting a business out, I think the smartest thing that you can possibly do, the absolute smartest thing that you can do,

is 100% be yourself and like build your business around you and around what you love and around what you what you're passionate about. Because I mean like for instance, you know, you can see behind me right now. I'm I'm a child. I'm 32 years old, but I'm a kid. I've got, you know, all my sports cars behind me. I've got I've got, I've got a pirate set of Legos behind me. So I mean like I think that, you know, what we were able to do is we were able to kind of build, you know, this business around the things that we love. We love, you know, my business partner, Jake and myself, we love sports. So, I mean, like, the things that we post online and everything with our company.

It's about, like, you know, we play golf in the office all the time. Like, we've got, like, this chipping mat set up. We have, we have a sports center on all the time. Like, that's on 24-7 when we're in the office. We've got a, we've got a beer tap with kegs over in the corner over here. You know, I mean, so we've got a cooler with all kinds of drinks in it and stuff. And, I mean, so I think that, like, people need to realize that if you, you build your business around you, there are hundreds of thousands of people out there that have

the same likes as you, right? They have the same mindset. They have the same things that they enjoy that you do. And so it's like, you're going to attract these people. There's no doubt about it. And so I think that so many people get, like, they put themselves in like a box of like, well, this is how business is supposed to be. This is how wholesaling is supposed to be. This is how real estate is supposed to be. Again, like, we wear T-shirts and tank tops and board shorts in here every day. Like we could give two shits about what people wear, you know, what we're, what we're, what we're, we're not like a, we're not like a super just, um, I don't want to say we're, we're not professional, but I mean, again, we're, we're just, we just run things a little bit

differently. So, I mean, I think that we've been able to attract a lot of people that have the same, you know, likes and the same similarities as us. I mean, everyone that's on our team now, you know, we all, we all, we all, you know, we all, you know, we all watch ESPN. We all, like, we get along. We've, we've built such like a great bond. such like a great team atmosphere, and it's because we've attracted these people from the things that we've posted because we're just being ourselves. We're not trying to be something that we're not. We're not trying to be anything that we don't like. Everything in our office right now was like handcrafted by us, and it's just it's 100% us. So I think that that's huge. And I don't think

enough people do that. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like, you know, what it boils down to is building that office culture that is sort of, I don't know, very vibrant within the culture. You want everyone to feel like it's an authentic place to come to work. Oh, for sure. Absolutely. And I mean, that's the thing. Like, you know, I don't know. I don't know what the percentage is, but I'd say most people still in general don't

enjoy going to work when it's like, you know, most of the days that I come in here, my guys are in here early. Like they're in here. I don't, we don't ask them to be in here early, but they're in here early because they love it. They love coming to work. They love having our, our chipping challenges. And it makes work fun. It's, you don't even feel like you're, you don't even feel like you're going to

work. It's just. And again, you know, everyone's still working. Everyone's still making money and everyone's, you know, everyone's pounding the phones. But again, we make games out of it, right? Like we do certain things where it's like, okay, hey, you know, we've made it a real, like, team aspect where, you know, one of the big things that we did as well is that when we set goals at the beginning of the year and like we set goals quarterly as well. But we set team goals. Like we set personal goals for like, you know, maybe things that, whatever, I want to lose 10 pounds of this quarter, right?

or whatever. Like we, we take like real life goals that are going to be every single day type things. But then we also have the team goals. And so we think that's extremely important because then when people close deals on our team, it's not there was there's no animosity. We had built that the wrong way in the past and we learned from that mistake. When we were first getting going, you know, years ago, we had built the team out where

it was kind of in a sense, eat what you kill every man for themselves. And biggest mistake we ever made. No question about it. Like if you have a team that's set up that way, I don't recommend it one bit. There began being animosity between team members and stuff like that. And so now that we just have it all team related, when people close deals, everyone gets stoked. You know, everyone gets jacked up when we take shots, when we close a deal. And so it's like we set these awesome goals where we're going to go on a trip at the end of the quarter if we hit this number, right?

We have fat bonuses at the end of the year. if we hit the overall number for the year. So it's like we've really been able to make it like a team aspect type thing where everyone gets excited when everyone succeeds. Yeah, I'd actually like to dig into that aspect a little bit because I really like sort of a rev share model in a sense. But that's not exactly what you're necessarily suggesting, right? It's not like, you know, one deal is closed.

Everyone gets a little piece of it. It's more if everyone's closing a certain amount and then the entire office hits that goal, then there's kind of a bonus that's dispersed from there. Can you walk us a little bit through those mechanics? Yeah, no, exactly. So exactly like you just said, everyone basically has a certain number that they're supposed to be hitting every month, right? So obviously that number comes down at the end of the year.

Does everyone hit their number? Awesome. If everyone hits their number, then that's great. And then if our company as a whole hits the number that we set out for, we have insane bonuses that we did. It's not necessarily rev sharing, but we just threw out a really high number that everyone's going to get. So obviously it makes everyone super super, super,

amped tissue for that number. That's really cool. So are there times in that culture, like, you know, obviously you've, you've experimented here with the bonus structure and everything like that, different aspects of culture that you like to implement? Are there times where you can kind of point to where it's like it wasn't working or ways that you can identify when certain cultural things aren't necessarily a fit? Yeah, yeah, no doubt about it. And again, I think that, so we've been in business for seven years now. Um, so, really, trust me, I'm not trying to sit here and say, we have it all figured out. But I mean, like the last, the last year has really been like a game changer for once we kind of like

restructured how everything worked. The previous years were, you know, they were still good, but the beginning years, we made the most mistakes. I mean, as most people do, because you're just getting your business going and you're, you know, you're learning from your mistakes. But yeah, I mean, when it was kind of eat what you kill every man for themselves, like I said, There was a lot of animosity built up between people when someone would get a deal. It'd be like, oh, hey, they're getting better leads than I am, aren't they? Like, well, you told him to call on this list and I'm calling on this list and how come this is happening? So it just got, it got kind of negative.

And then when that started, you know, I don't know if you want me to go down the road of, you know, not fun stories. But, again, these are learning experiences. But, I mean, yeah, we had a guy that was on our team and he was kind of a cancer to the team. Um, every time we brought in new people, he would come to us and be like, hey, I don't like this guy. This I don't like this guy. I don't like this guy. For whatever reason it was, right? Um, and so he ended up, you know, we should have caught that early.

We should have caught it early on that the guy was obviously, he was the problem every single time we brought in new people. And he ended up, we ended up finding out that he had been stealing leads from us for the last like, the last like six months that he had worked with us. Um, and like I said, the relationship was kind of. started getting worse and worse. But then one day we came in and all this stuff was moved out. And he's like, hey, I'm going to start working from home.

And we're like, what? You're not going to work from home? And he's like, no, I'm working from home from here on out. And so we ended up finding out that he had been actually closing deals and using another company in our market to close them. So he was taking the leads and he was using, he was finding it, he was taking the leads to this other company and he was closing them and selling them with them. Because like how it raised the, you know, how it kind of raised an eyebrow for us.

was we were like, okay, you're not getting any leads anymore. Like, what happened? Like, the last three months you haven't brought any leads in. Like, something's got to be going on. And then, like I said, shortly after he said, he was going to start working from home. And then we ended up finding out that the leads that we had been working, he had just been taken him and closing them. In our industry especially, I think we are more prone to that kind of behavior than in a

W-2 world. We tend to draw the people who have this dream. They want more money. They want financial freedom. They want to see what they can do, right? Like, it's that personality that is pulled to real estate. It's typically not an accountant CPA type person who's like, I really want to be in the chaos of real estate investment. Right, right.

So I've noticed this with real estate salespeople, to a smaller degree with mortgage loan officers, not quite as much, but definitely with like the investor, the flip or the person that's willing to cold call all day long that wants it really bad. They're more likely to be the people that will cross those lines, that will gray those areas. And there's almost like a bit of a paranoia that you have to develop. to do this well that people that don't work in the industry will look at it like, oh, you're always afraid of people leaving you. I'm like, do you know how often agents change brokerage? Oh, God, yeah. It's insane. They're constantly jumping, right? And then in the investing side, it's even worse. You get these people that say, hey, I see you playing Madden and cold calling. I really want to learn what you're doing. Can I come work with you? And their goal is,

as soon as I get this down, I'm leaving this guy. I'm out of here. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. But they're, they don't just want an opportunity. They want your time, your training. your attention, your emotional commitment. You get to know these people. You feel like your friends. It can even be like family. Like you're sitting out there with these guys right outside your window. You guys are going to war together. It's going to build this bond. And it stings when one of them leaves, especially if they leave to betray you. So first off, I just wanted you to talk a little bit about this reality that doesn't get brought up sort of in the Disneyland real estate investing persona that gets put out there because it's actually a little more cutthroat than I think a lot of people can realize.

and then what you've done in your company to try to avoid that, whether it's looking for traits and people that you avoid or creating an incentive structure so that's less likely to keep happening. No, for sure. And so exactly like you said, you know, we once we did kind of shift that mindset of like, okay, you know, we're bringing people on, but exactly like what you said, they're getting, they're gathering information from you and then they're out, right? Like they might stay a couple months. They might stay, you know, even if it's a year, they get as much information as they

possibly can and then when it's no longer kind of like, you know, fitting their needs or it doesn't really make sense, they think that they can start making more than they're gone. And so what we've done to kind of try to combat, combat that is when we did our last round of interviews, we really asked some deep questions, like some deep questions that we're going to be like, you know, give us a good feel for if these people were going to stay with us or if they were literally just trying to gather information to bounce. So I mean, like, you know, one of the things that we said is, You know, we just asked how long, how long are you looking to stay in real estate? You know, how long are you looking to, you know, to be with us?

Just curious, you know, because believe it or not, even though you'd think a lot of people are just going to, like, BS you, a lot of people will straight up tell you. We had a couple people that were like, hey, I want to be here for maybe a couple of years and I'd kind of like to go try to do what you guys are doing. So someone that said that, no. Like, you know, like, you gave us your, you gave us the honest answer, but that's the wrong answer. So no, you're not working with this.

And so it's like, yeah, we were looking for the people that. said, you know what, like I'm looking for a career. Like, I'm looking for something that I can stay a long term, you know? Um, so that was, that was huge for us. And so, um, another thing, like, we want our guys to grow. Like, we want them to grow with us. So that was, that's huge, that was another huge thing that we kind of shifted as well is that when we go over our goals, you know, the personal goals and the team goals. But when we go over those, we really look to find like, what is it that you want? You know what I mean? Like, we try to get to the, the deep questions of what do you want out of life? What do you want out of working here?

And so, you know, a really cool example that I can actually use that just actually happened last week. One of the guys on our team, one of his goals was that he wanted to buy three doors this year. He wanted three, wanted to pick up three rental properties, three doors. And so one thing that we're huge on is we like to try to fulfill these goals with people. And so we like to give, we made it very obvious to them that, hey, we're going to be able to provide you guys with options. like in opportunities that you might not get elsewhere because of how many projects we do come across. And so when this was only a week ago, we came across a triplex that was a seller carry, which, you know, with interest rates where they're at right now, a seller carry was pretty attractive.

They were asking 880 on it for a triplex right downtown Prescott. And so they were, the seller was asking 880 and they said they had carry at 4.7%. So we went ahead and jumped on. We lowballed the shit out of them. We came in at 650, 4.7% interest and they accepted it. So five-year balloon. So it was a perfect time, though, where we could kind of, you know, see if it was something that he would be interested in jumping in on with us.

And so our team member jumped in on it with us. He's a, you know, he threw some cash down to partner on it. and he is a partner with my business partner, Jake and I on it now. So it's like just like that, you know, he just added three doors to his portfolio. And that was one of his big, big goals that he had wanted to do for the year of 2022. And it's already accomplished. That's awesome. Rob, same question to you.

What are some things that you've done to either avoid hiring the wrong people or keep the people that you've got in place? This is something that I'm actually, I don't want to say dealing with, but something I'm going through right now, right? because I've always hired very lean. And I'm at the point now where I am having to scale and hire more people. And I just want to make sure that the people that I've already hired are happy. So I actually just had a one-year review with like my editor, for example, the editor of the channel.

And for us, we've had a really good, flexible relationship. Things have been going super, super, super well. And I believe he gets paid relatively well for kind of, you know, like the job that he does. and I think we've always been happy with that. But I did want him to have skin in the game because I always feel like having skin in the game is truly where the incentive comes to light, right? And so, you know, when we had our one-year talk about a week ago,

actually it wasn't really that long ago, and, you know, I said, look, I could give you a raise if that's what you want. But what I would prefer is we'll keep your salary the same, but I'm going to give you a percentage of the ad revenue, of the channel. But what I want, though, with this is you now have a stake in this channel in the success of it, right? So if the YouTube channel goes viral, you're super happy. If it's tanking, I want you to be bummed about it with me, right? And so this is something I've figured out because

I think just doing pure skin in the game has not worked in the past for some people that I've consulted with on this. But I actually just hired a C-O for my education program. And we really went, you know, through and through trying to figure out the agreement that worked. The same thing, you know, is a base salary with a, you know, percentage of revenue. Because basically, if he grows it to a certain milestone, he'll make a lot more money. And so for me, I think there's a really nice balance there of just making sure that there is a reason that someone comes to work motivated in knowing that their work contributes to more money in their pocket. For me, long story short, is I've noticed that I do better hiring

administrators than salespeople. So like most of the problems that come in my business would be a salesperson that comes in and we want them to work a system and be structured and follow a path and they're a crazy squirrel that wants to run all over the place. And their heart tells them, do it your own way, but their head tells them I need systems and it's been very difficult keeping him past. So we're sort of going to restructure to where we've got a handful of sales leaders that are very talented agents. We're going to build administrators around those people, rather than growing agents and maybe giving them agents to support them. Because this has been the biggest problem with businesses. Like, you just don't realize that when you're learning about

real estate. It's so exciting. It's so fun. You're like, I just want to do this every day all day. But then when you got to go execute, it becomes boring. It becomes monotonous. It becomes a grind. that you learned how to use Madden as sort of an opiate to get you through what that was going on. And that's why people don't become successful is when the luster wears off and you're like, nope, I'm just getting yelled at, getting hung up on, getting people that are irritated, and I'm just sifting through to find that one gold nugget. And then I got to have the ability to pounce on it when I find it. It could be like that getting a deal, right?

We're starting to see a little bit more deals coming our way because the market's softening. But in general, it becomes very discouraging when you're looking at house, her house and especially when you're new and you're just analyzing all of them 100% right like this is exhausting and you've got to have the energy to pounce when that one comes the rise of the tech savvy investors here you don't need a huge team or tons of overhead to manage rental properties just the right tools so i want to tell you about how i use rent ready to get ahead for landlords who treat their time like capital and recognize the cost of sweat equity this tool gives you everything you need to scale rent collection tenant screening maintenance accounting so that you're organized come tax season and you can

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no monthly subscriptions or long-term contracts. You only pay for results. And speaking of results, in the minute I've been talking to you, 23 people just got hired through Indeed worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of the show we'll get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash rookie. Just go to Indeed.com slash rookie right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. That's Indeed.com slash rookie. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. So I kind of want to switch this over a little bit, Luke. If you could give us your four tips that you use to keep people interested so that their mind is sharp, they're engaged, they're having fun, and they don't miss the opportunity that comes after those

eight hours of calls. Yeah. I mean, so another thing that we do is, you know, we incentivize our team for bigger deals, right? So, because again, you've got to keep in mind, like, we've got sales team that they are in the trenches and they're going to be negotiating a deal, right? So if they're negotiating a deal, why not give them more incentive to try to get that deal deeper, you know? And so obviously, we're not going to give the deal away.

Like, we don't want to lose a deal because we're just trying to get it too deep. Like we're always going to, you know, we're always going to try to make sure that we get the deal first. But we incentivize them by getting deeper deals. So, you know, we'll do something where it's like, okay, if you, you know, for your first 100K deal that you get, you know, we're going to get you a whole new set of golf clubs. And I mean, you know, are you guys golfers? I just took my first lesson. Oh, did you? Okay.

Okay. So I mean, like, you know, but I mean, that's, that's a couple grand, you know, that's like a couple thousand dollars right there to do something like that. Or, you know, your first deal over, over, you know, whatever, 50 grand or 75 grand. So, like, we do, like, different things like that. So, like, you'll get, like, an electric scooter. You'll get, like, an electric e-bike. So, like, we do things like that to, like, really try to, like, make them push to get them deeper, right? So that's, that's one.

Obviously, another one is, you know, we really make sure that we have, like, an advancement, right? So it's like, okay, this is what you're going to start out at when you join our company. But, like, we always want to make sure that people know that they can grow in our company, right? Whether that's huge. Yeah. Because, I mean, it's like a lot of times, you know, I think that one reason why people will leave a company is because they just feel like there's, they're not, there's not any growth for them, right? They feel like they feel like they've hit the ceiling and they're like, okay, well, where do I go from here? Like, I'm doing well and I don't really know what you guys want for me now because I'm doing everything I can do and I just don't.

And they just feel like they kind of hit that glass ceiling. And so one thing that we've really done is we've really made it a point that we want you guys to advance in our company. Like we have an opportunity for growth. You know, you're starting right here. you know, as an accusation manager, but the next step is going to be a team lead. The next step is going to be a closer, you know, I mean, we're going to have positions all the way up to CLO of our business as well. We're not there yet. You know, our team's not big enough.

And I don't think, you know, especially with the market kind of slowing a little bit, we're just not really at that point where we have those upper, those upper management positions, you know, kind of failed or anything. Or even really where we're ready for them. But again, I think that just when people know that, that for the future, like I can step into those positions, right? I'm not going to just stay right here for my entire career with them. Like that's a huge thing. And, and, you know, when you say gamifying, it's like, it's kind of, in my opinion, it's kind of like, you know, moving on to that next level, right? So it's like you've finished this level and you've done really well. So now you're moving on to that next level. I heard Tony Robbins talking about this and it never really clicked, but he was talking about

how important the feeling of progression is to a human being. It's like one of our deepest needs. Actually, I think what he was saying is you're only happy in life when you can feel like you're progressing. And at the time I heard it, I wasn't ready to hear it, so it didn't really do anything for me. But I started thinking about, actually, I'll just be honest with this. I started playing a video game on my phone, Marvel game. And I ended up spending money on it. And I was like, what the hell am I doing? This is so stupid in so many ways.

But I actually deconstructed, like, why am I spending money on it? And they did done a great job in that game of getting it started where it was fun and then making it too hard to progress at the pace that you want to that you got used to unless you spend money. So you're in like, in this pain. I can't get to this next level unless I spend $10 and then the pain's relieved. And I just caught myself getting sucked into just like, it's like, dude, I don't spend this much money on food.

I don't spend this. Why am I doing this? And it was that feeling progression. And it sort of unlocked something in my brain. I realize this is why you see so many young men. that are addicted to world of Warcraft. Like, in the real world, they don't get that feeling of progression. They feel like they're getting passed up in that world.

They're a level 74 warlock. And even though they know it's not real, your brain thinks it is. It feels real, right? I am a badass. In that place, right? And I see this with investors. I'll often hear investors say, I have X amount of doors. And, like, it's kind of a joke in our world that the minute I hear an investor start

talking about doors, they're chasing the wrong goal. It's easy to build up. doors, right? Because they have nine doors, what you have is like three properties or something. It's the feeling of progression that they like people to hear. And now I pay a lot of attention to what am I getting that feeling from? Because I will chase it if I think that I'm going to get ahead. And there's a lot of other people that are that way. And if you're at a company where they don't have that feeling of progression, it's almost like you're forcing them to go somewhere else to to find it to get that need met. Yeah, no, there's no doubt about that. I mean, I think there's

there's so much truth in that because it's just when you just even talk to the team you know when you just have regular talks to them that's what is important like you know when you have like the sit downs with them and you say hey what is what's really important for you know with where we're at it's always that next thing how about you rob what are some areas where you catch yourself like you feel progression and so you pursue it but then you look back and say like was that even worth doing or are you just a machine that isn't making those mistakes i don't make mistakes physically i know yeah uh um um I'm the best.

That's my Ricky Bobby impression. Well, no, I was just thinking about that. I mean, and I kind of just, I said this earlier about sort of the Rev Share model. And I think, I think honestly, you guys are really selling me on this a little bit more simply because there is progression in that type of thing for the people on my team. I mean, with my CEO, with my editor, they're directly incentivized by the performance and growth of my company. And thus, if they don't help increase the production.

they don't see progress. But because of our company, because of my company is in my channel, it is always growing, you know. And I think that's sort of the thing that I think that's probably, honestly, David, what I did not like about W2 life is that there really isn't fast progression, right? If you think about your typical linear growth there, you get a job and you wait, if you're lucky, a year to get promoted. But it might take two. It might take three years to get promoted. Now, you might get, like, at my last job, I would get like a 3%, you know, living wage increase every year or two. I can't really remember off the top of my head. That's not real progress, right? You know, it's not nothing, but on my salary, it was like, you know, a couple thousand

bucks, for example, which after taxes and everything was like, well, next year, 50, 100 bucks per paycheck. Inflation. And that's not real progress. Right. Exactly. That's exactly. It wasn't even keeping up with inflation. But when you think about leaving one job to go to the next job, right? Like, your salary jump can be very sizable. You can go from making 50,000 to 75,000, if you play your cards right, or maybe 80,000. I mean, there are jobs that I went, I was able to jump. Like, when I moved from Kansas City to Los Angeles, I was able to double my salary. And that's where I felt real progress. But once I was sort of locked into the W-2, there is no progress for one, two or three years. And I think that the way you described that is exactly what my gripe was with

my full-time life was that I just never felt like I was really seeing progress because I was like, oh, well, my employer doesn't see enough progress to give me a raise or give me a promotion. And thus, I always felt very stagnant for very many years, whereas now I'm self-employed. I have different businesses. I have different employees. My revenue does go up every single month. my views go up every single month. And I actually see progress. And so I think, yeah, I don't know. I probably do chase progress a lot. But maybe it's because I was so deprived of it working a full-time career. And that's what obviously your mileage is going to marry there. And I didn't mean to get so deep and profound. But I think you've just really encapsulated what my issue was with like

being a company man. For sure. I think, I mean, when it comes to like just talking, you know, what my main thing that I chase is for progress wise, it sounds ridiculous. But it's a 100% cash flow. That is literally the number one thing that I find myself chasing is like the number that sticks out to me over anything else is 100% directly correlated to my freedom. And the thing that correlates with your freedom for me is my cash flow. I think because cash flow is such a powerful magnet in our industry, right? It's like you throw the word cash flow out and 90% of the people interested in real estate are going to run right out. For sure. And it's not bad. Obviously, cash flow is incredible.

I want to make money. Everyone else, right? It becomes scary when someone goes to a bad turnkey provider or a bad market, right? Because those markets always look stronger cash flow. If you go to Indiana, if you go to like some of these like Mississippi, all these areas that turnkey companies tend to work in that have a very low barrier to entry on the spreadsheet. You're like, whoa, this is a 28% return. And it never works out that way, right? And it's not that I'm against cash flow.

I'm against cash flow being used as bait to get you on a hook that's going to take you in a financial ruin, right? And you got me thinking one of the things, I think the main reason people want cash flow is they see it as this magic pill to get them out of the job that they don't like into a relationship that they don't have into having confidence. Like just cash flow can change everything for you. The other thing I think is it's easier to measure progress with cash flow. No, I think so too. I've got this much every month. I can get this much more if I get this many properties. It puts you on that progression system that we talk about.

You can do the same thing with equity, and that tends to be how wealthier people measure their success? How did my net worth grow? But you don't have as much direct control over equity, right? You kind of have to make the right moves and watch that it happens. But cash flow, there's a very strong correlation between I got this many doors. I can get this much cash flow. So I'm curious, as you're building up your own portfolio,

as you're growing your cash flow, and as you're seeing this system of progression, and how important we have to have it, or otherwise we're not going to stay motivated. But at the same time, you can follow the wrong path and feel like, I'm making progress. You get all the way to the end and you're like, I don't like where I went. This was a mistake. How often do you sort of pull back and look at your overall plan and ask yourself if you like the

direction you're headed? Probably monthly. Honestly, I'd say probably about once a month, I really sit back and I'll look at it and say, okay, is this, yeah, is this, is this where I want to be? Is this what I want to do? Is this, you know, the things that we're aiming towards is that what I want out of life? and, you know, are those, are we in the right, are we going in the right direction towards those things? So, I mean, again, you know, like you said, cash, whether it's right or wrong, measuring it in cash flow, when I take a look at that, it's just, it, it, I kind of put it in words of like, this is with, with this, whatever this number is going to grow to, looking at it regularly, this kind of lets me know where I'm at on paper in the sense of, okay, in a receipts.

session, right? And again, not saying we're in one, but I'm just saying if, if things do come crashing down, this is what I can still kind of hang my hat on that. This is where I'm at where I don't necessarily have to worry too, too, too much if the world explodes and your business falls apart. I mean, you know what I mean? Obviously, there's not things that you want to happen. They're not things that you expect to happen. But there are things that can still come through your mind where it's like, okay, if everything does fall apart, where are you sitting cash flow-wise? Because this is what allows you to still, you know, survive. This is what's going to allow you to be like, hey, you know what, no matter how bad it gets, this is where I'm at. And I can still go

do this. I can still do this and I can still have this type of a lifestyle based on that number. And so that's why I try to stay on top of that number regularly because it's, you know, with the shifting market right now, it's nice to know. It's nice to know what that number is. That's interesting because I would have imagined that the, I don't know, I mean, yes, I agree with a lot of that because that is, I guess I would think of it this way. Like, your cash flow is your daily tracker. That's what you're looking at. Right.

That's what's on the scoreboard. But you got to look at the season, right? Like what the season, like where you net out? And that's where I look at net worth, which again, net worth isn't something that I'm really looking at and saying like, great, boom, box checked. But that is the ultimate for me. Yeah. The tracker of like the overall success because cash flow can change.

You know, you can sell a property. You know, there are a lot of times where I've had a great Airbnb that lease might have ended or I might have sold it or whatever. and I'm like, dang, that just took off $7,000 of my cash flow. And now I'm back down to like, you know, three steps back or whatever. But, you know, and again, net worth is not something that I'm like, oh, yeah, this is it. But that is how I track really a lot of it because for me, I always say cash flow makes you rich, but equity makes you wealthy. So there is a little bit of a dance that you have to play on like which one you're paying attention to.

And I think it's kind of equal, honestly, on my side. I was going to say, I'm not, I absolutely still pay attention to my, my, my, my, my net worth as well, but I'd, I pay more attention to my cash flow regularly. Like I said, I'm probably paying attention to my cash, you know, checking on my numbers for cash flow monthly. And then, uh, my, my, my net worth is probably quarterly. Where I'm really, you know, and in, yeah, diving in and saying, this is where I'm at right now. Um, how am I going to grow this number right now? All right. So let's summarize your four tips for gamifying things. And I think before I do that, what I love about this is that, you're taking the same things that make video games fun and addicting. You are applying them to business so people can actually make money with that skill, right? Hell yeah. You're taking this thing that is a trap to so many people, and now you're using it in the fight for financial freedom and good, so I like that. Number one tip, make work a game.

Like when you were using Madden, that would make an ordinary, boring task actually seem a lot more fun and challenging. Number two is look for ways to incentivize people, and you have to have, like, weekly ones, quarterly ones, different forms of incentive. Number three is leveling up. That's where we get into that feeling of progression. That's so important. Number four is bring in a multiplayer element.

So get other people involved, make them feel like they're in a group on a team. Anything that you want to elaborate on that before we move into the next segment of the show? No. I mean, honestly, one other thing that we've really done with our team as well is we've made sure that they all know that to us, one of our core values is obviously just how important the importance of family um and so something that's big is we give our entire team so much freedom in the sense if they ever need anything if they ever want to take a trip they don't even they can ask us but they really don't even need to it's it's it's done it's it's done so i mean you know there'll be times when um you know anyone in our team they can they can say this is this is

coming up this is going to do this perfect you're gone have fun enjoy it and enjoy your time with the family and so we've made sure that everyone knows how how important it is to us that they get their time with their family. So I just, and again, that's not, that's not gamifying, but I mean, that's just one of those things to us where, again, it's just, it's a core value of that your family comes first. So anything you need, go for. Yeah. And if they're hitting their numbers, if they're doing their job, if there's accountability, like I see that you've got these people that are in your office as we're recording. I think that's really important. Oh, yeah. You know they're working every day. So, and you track your numbers, so you see if they're successful. So of course, if they want some time off,

they can go do it. That only becomes a problem when someone's not, not contribute. Right. Right. They're not helping move the ball forward. And then they're saying, now I need all this time off as well. I agree. I'm jealous. I'm jealous. You have a workspace with people. I didn't miss that.

The studio gets a little lonely sometimes. Yeah, yeah. Rob's co-workers are his children. How old are they? One and two. Yeah. And every once in a while, an exciting thing happens where one of them sticks Plato up their nose. Oh, my.

Perfect. There we go. And do reverse CPR. Yep. Yes. We had a peanut incident about six months back. So peanut up the nose. Up the nose?

What happened? Did you do reverse CPR? Oh, we had to break out the tweezers. Oh, wow. Had to break out the tweezers to get the peanut out. I'm like, babe, what are you doing? I thought it would come out. I put a peanut up there.

I thought it would come out. My sister did that with the bean one time. You know, they'll get you. Peanuts and beans. She was 32. Yeah, right. All right. All right.

I'm going to move us on to the next segment of our show. In this segment of the show, we are going to ask you details about a particular deal that you've done. Luke, do you have one in mind? We've got one flip that we just did. The first question is, what kind of property is? Is it a single family home? Okay, so it's a single family home, but it has a guest house, five minutes from downtown Prescott. So it's in a really, really sought-after area. And so it is on 1.2 acres.

And again, it's just, you don't typically. find many houses with guest houses in this area. House is 2,400 square feet. Guest house is 600 square feet. Completely separate. And how did you find it? This was a cold call. And you mentioned the price.

How much did you pay for it? Bought it for $480,000. And how did you negotiate that price? So the guy wanted $5.50. He was going to list it on the market for $5.50. So obviously, we broke down all the numbers for him. Just let him know that by the time you actually list it and after all the numbers come out, it needed everything.

It was really rough. So, I mean, after an inspection and everything, you know, we're like, hey, there's a good chance you're not even going to walk with, you know, you're not even going to walk with 500. So kind of went back and forth there. We got him down to 480 on the deal. All right. How did you fund this deal? This one, we did a hard money loan. And we did a hard money loan for the, for the construction on it as well.

And that the construction ended up getting a little out of hand on us. So we actually had to bring in a gap funder. We didn't have to. but we brought in a gap funder for the extra construction loan. And what did you do with it? Was it a flip, rental, burr? It was a flip. So, yeah.

So we ended up putting $260,000 into the flip. All right. And what was this outcome? So we just listed it last week, which again, you know, in this market right now is a little bit scary just because, you know, we talked about it a little bit before. But the numbers have come down. There's no doubt about it from where they were, you know, versus six to eight weeks ago. So obviously that's something that was kind of scaring us, you know, as we were getting closer to getting this thing listed.

We're just watching the market, you know, watching interest rates going up. We're like, okay, like, you know, we'll just have to see how this goes. But we put out, we're pretty confident in our product that we put out. We do some pretty, we put some money into our projects and we got a pretty good design in our opinion. So we listed the property for 1.1, 1.1 mill last week. and we got a full price cash offer three days in. Wow, that's awesome, man.

What lessons did you learn from the deal? This was a, it was a little bit scarier deal because it took a while because we gutted the entire thing. I mean, it was, you know, it was pretty, it was rough. It was really rough. But what I learned, man, we trusted our, we trusted our intuition that this was going to be like just because of what it was. It's a really cool house.

It's kind of old, unique. It's got a lot of history behind it. It had a guest house. It was on a big lot. So it had these things that you don't find in this area. And so we're like, God, like, I think we should be able to push this thing. And obviously, the market just continued to climb over the past year that we've owned this property. So, I mean, really the thing I learned I'd say is that we trusted our intuition that this was going to be a banger.

And it was. So we just got through the inspection. and they didn't ask very much. So it sounds like things are moving forward. And they waved an appraisal, which is awesome. All right. On this deal, who was the hero involved? I'm going to say it was our lender.

Our lender just kept giving us funds. And he was like, hey, like, because we had, I think we'd originally said that our rehab was going to be like, I think we said it was going to be like 120. And then once we kind of started getting into it more, you know, you've had those projects where you're like, oh, damn, this thing, once we're opening this thing up, we're going to, we're going to really get into this. So he trusted us the whole way through. We do a stupid amount of deals with him,

so I'm happy that he trusted us. But he just kept cutting the checks left and right. So it was nice. That's nice. Yeah. So find yourself a lender that I'll do that. Yeah, exactly. I think it's super important, in my opinion, to have a lender that if you want to get to

that next level, you've got to have a lender that you can just trust and they trust you that you can feed off of. Because, I mean, if you don't have that, it's going to be tough. And if you want to be like Luke and get the, same results. Remember, Bigger Pockets can help you do so. There are tons of resources and people waiting to be your hero on the site. Just go to BiggerPockets.com, look for the nav bar, click on tools or resources, and there is plenty there that will help you do the same thing. All right, Luke, we're going to move on to the last segment of the show. It is the world famous.

Famous for. All right, in this segment of the show, Rob and I will fire questions at you, and we're going to see how you respond. Same questions we ask every guest every week. Question number one, What is your favorite real estate book? Oh, favorite real estate book. I'm going to have to go, I say that it's real estate-wise, but the top regrets of the dying. The top regrets of the dying is huge for me because it's just, it's one of those things where, again, it lets you know you got one life. And it's about someone who interviewed a bunch of people that were on their deathbed.

And just the things that they had brought up that they wish they would have done looking back. that it brought to them. And it's just like, it's, oh, man, it's, it's one of those, it's one of those books where it makes you, every single, every page, you're just like, you're thinking about it. And you're like, oh, my God. Like, I got to, I got to change something. I got to, I got to go after it now. I got to do what I want to do right now. So that was huge for me. That's awesome. What about your favorite business book? Favorite business book is probably going to have to be the monk who sold his Ferrari. Josh Shorkin really likes that book. He's mentioned it several times. Yeah, that's a, that's a, that's an amazing book. It's, it's, it's, um, yeah, that's, that's, that's, that'll shift it. That'll shift your mindset as well.

Uh, it's about a big wig kind of like, uh, lawyer and just the, the, the changes that he made by, by basically kind of stepping away from his business and taking a, a deeper look at the, you know, everything in, uh, you know, the, the macro of life, I guess, and, uh, and how it changed everything. It's amazing. And, uh, when you're not finding ways to gamify the game of real estate, What are some of your hobbies? I like to play golf. I like to spend time with the family. We've got a boat.

So we're on like a little lake in our neighborhood here. So we'll take the boat out, take the kids and the dog. So that's a lot of fun. In Arizona, I know it sounds really weird. Most people are like, there's not lakes in Arizona, right? But so that's fun, golf. I enjoy playing basketball. So like I said, I love sports.

Awesome. In your opinion, what sets apart successful investors from those who give up, fail, or never get started. Consistency, man. Like, that's been, that's been, you know, if you've heard that question, when people ask, like, what's your superpower?

Like, consistency, if you have the ability to just stick with it, even when things aren't going well, just pound the phone, you know, whether it's the phones or whatever it is, pound the pavement, and just continue to work. Like, there's so many people, like you said, that one, things get tough, they quit, right? They're just like, you know what, this isn't for me.

I'll do something else. That's not pivoting. Like, if you're completely, getting out of that industry, you're quitting. And so we have been able to stay extremely, extremely consistent in the things that have worked for us. And then once they maybe start to not work as well, we have done a very, very good job of pivoting. So, you know, whether that's a market shift, whether that's, you know, that could be anything. Something happens with your marketing, your marketing sources or, you know, whatever it might be where things are just not working how

they used to work, making those changes, being able to pivot quickly and staying consistent. Those are the top two things for me that if you can do those things in any market, in my opinion, I think you're going to be fine. I think you're going to do not even to be fine, but I think you're going to excel. Well, very wise words there. Lastly, can you tell us where people can find out more about you on the internet? Yeah, absolutely. So on Instagram, my Instagram handle is Luke underscore R.O.

underscore and on Facebook just Luke Rotval that's my full name and then on YouTube we are under the Viking boys and we have a bunch of like cold call videos just live cold call videos on there while playing Madden

which is a blast so yeah so you can stick to your root exactly so yeah so those are the three places you can find me awesome what about you David you can find me at David Green

24 there's a whole lot of impostors so be careful that you look exactly for the right space especially if you see me follow you. Nothing personal, but I'm probably not likely to be following someone that I haven't been interacting with before. So there's a lot of people getting taken advantage of. And then you can check up my YouTube channel at David Green Real Estate. And Rob, what about you? Yeah, man, I've been waiting for you to follow me back now for like the last six months. So I try not to take it personally, but honestly don't know how else to take it at this point.

It'll come soon. You can find me over at Rob Built on YouTube, Rob Built on Instagram. little curveball here. Rabilto on TikTok, someone took Rob Built, but then scammers got a hold of Rob Bilto on Instagram. So it's a little confusing. So I'm Rob Built on Instagram and make sure that you, I mean, I won't send you a message first.

I can pretty much guarantee that. So if you get a message from me that says, hey, have you considered Forex trading? It's not me. It's a bot. Come on. That's what you're actually doing. Let's be honest.

Luke, I got to ask you, with your name being Luke Rotbold, How often do people think that you are Luke Rockhold, the UFC fighter? I know, trust me. Oh, my God. Okay, so funny story was that I was the first time I'd ever, ever heard that name. I was at a restaurant with my wife. And they had like ESPN or something on, right?

Where they had highlights going on. And I just heard that name over the, whatever, the speakers. And it was like something about Luke Rockhold. And I'm like, I'm like, wait, babe, did you just hear that? She's like, yeah, I did hear that. I'm like, come on. That's not a very common name. Rotvold.

Like, it's a very strange name. It's Norwegian. But I mean, the first time I heard, I was shook. I'm like, what the hell was that? So I don't get that very often. But I think that guy's also like 6'4, like freaking 240 all yoked up. I'm not 6'4, nor am I 240 or yoked up. Not yet.

Right. You know, hey, I can get there. I can get that. You put your mind to it. Anything could happen. You don't need to do that. Just get enough cash flow. It'll solve every problem you ever have.

Why get in shape? Boom. Exactly. That's what I'm talking about. See? That's exactly what I'm talking about. All right, Luke, well, we had a great time talking to you. I really appreciate you sharing what's going on in your business.

That's good as well as what's not going well. It's very rare you get someone that will come on a podcast this big with this influence and shake. Hey, I got taken advantage of. I had people leave me. Here's what went wrong in the business. So I appreciate you being authentic there. Everyone, please go follow the Viking.

boys and learn more about how you two can make eight what was it five thousand dollars an hour while playing madden five six five hundred and sixty three five hundred sixty three dollars an hour while playing video games you're not going to get that in world of warcraft no you're not no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no This is David Green for Rob Reverse CPR Abasolo. Signing on. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform.

Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K. Copywriting is by Calicoe Content. And editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.biggerpockets.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only.

All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk. So use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. BiggerPockets LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential, or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast.