BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 7 Rentals in 2 Years by Buying in an Affordable Market Everyone Ignores

Episode Date: May 18, 2026

Nick Burke knew he wanted to invest, but in his high-priced New Jersey market, buying a cash-flowing rental property was close to impossible. He needed to find an affordable market, somewhere with population growth, equity upside, and houses below the $100K price point. He did it, but in a city, 99% of investors have completely written off arguably too soon.  Now, Nick owns a rental property portfolio of seven houses, using the “BRRRR” method (buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat), to build an entire rental portfolio with very little money out of pocket. He’s done what most investors never thought of—buying his first true rental with a credit card, managing renovations from hundreds of miles away, and going 50/50 with a partner when he didn’t have the cash. If any of that sounds too risky for you, Nick proves that if you’ve got your head on straight, you can make it work with all of these options. Just two years later, Nick’s portfolio has made him hundreds of thousands of dollars richer in equity, and he’s even gotten paid to buy rentals! All it took was taking the leap and realizing he, too, could build wealth in real estate. This is his exact strategy for scaling so quickly, without a ton of cash to start. In This Episode We Cover How to use the BRRRR method to make tens of thousands in equity immediately  Buying a rental property with a credit card?! The 0% interest move Nick made that paid off The #1 most important person on your out-of-state investing team (you cannot miss this!) Nick’s exact buy box for finding an affordable, cash-flowing real estate market Investing while working a 9-5 job? Why it’s more than possible even if you’re managing renovations  And So Much More! Check out more resources from this show on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BiggerPockets.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠h⁠⁠t⁠t⁠ps://www⁠.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-1279. Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nick Burke had been listening to this podcast for almost 10 years before building his rental portfolio. He knew he always wanted to invest in real estate, so he finally took the leap and he rented out his condo as a test. Well, the rent started rolling in and the management wasn't as hard as he thought. So in 2024, he decided it's time to start buying rentals. But he was living in New Jersey, which is a high-cost, low-cash-flow real estate market. He needed to buy somewhere with affordable home prices that had population growth, that had equity upside, and was only a short plane right away. Well, he found that perfect market, and it's probably one you've already written off.

Now, all in this one market, Nick has bought six rental properties, with one more under contract as we speak. He is doing the impossible, buying rentals with credit cards and successfully paying them off, achieving the perfect burr in today's market where people say you can't do that. And he's doing it from over 500 miles away while working a full-time job. Nick took almost a decade to get started, but has now built an entire real estate portfolio in just two years. If you're still stuck on the sidelines, hearing Nick's story is bound to get you in the game. What's going on, everybody?

I am Henry Washington, co-host of the Bigger Pockets podcast. Today we've got a great investor story with Nick Burke, so let's jump into it. Mr. Nick Burke, welcome to the podcast. Hey, Henry, happy to be here, man. Happy to be here. Sounds like you've done quite a bit in a reasonable period of time. So why don't you tell us how you got into real estate in the first place? I originally got into real estate back in 2021.

I started with a condo that I lived in myself for a few years. And I've always done research with bigger pockets. And I always knew I wanted to get to the point where I could own rental. and kind of do all those nice things. And I finally got to the point where I rented out that condo. And once I got to see what the power was to actually owning a rental and seeing how that kind of panned out, I said, well, let me figure out a way to get into this and scale at some point. The biggest issue is me living in New Jersey is that it's a hard market to cash flow in

on a single family house. It's possible, but it's tough sledding nowadays. So I did a little bit of research, and I landed on Detroit as I'm, market and starting in 2024, that's when everything started. What is it that you were doing for a living or that you currently do for a living and like, what drove your decision to go from like where you are to starting to invest? Yes. So currently I work my 9 to 5 as a tech recruiter.

So I've always had a sales and tech recruiting background. So that's what I've done since I've been out of college. And I've always had an interest in real estate. Risk dad, poor dad was kind of my introductory kind of moment into real estate. and what that could look like. And ever since back in the day, I said, I'm going to figure this out at some point. It's just a matter of what.

And it took a few years, but we're here today. Yeah, you said you were listening to the podcast for 10 years. There's a lot of people who are in that boat, right? Who have probably been listening to this podcast or some sort of podcast for years or doing a ton of research prior to taking their first step. Do you feel like that amount of time was what you needed before you jumped in? Or did you feel like there was some fear? or hesitation, I'd be curious to know, do you feel like you could have or should have jumped in sooner?

So I would say it had everything to do with the fear of the unknown. I think that that's what can get most people that want to get started in anything. And because of not knowing what the entire process would look like, I was a bit apprehensive to start any sooner. But once I had the primary and eventually converted that into a rental, that's what kind of opened my eyes up to what could be possible. Right. And I like that process too, right? We often say like, you should set some goals first. but after you set some goals, then you should pick a strategy. Obviously, the strategy you pick needs to meet the goals that you've set. And then if you can't do this strategy that you need to do to meet your goals in your backyard, you should look somewhere else. And it sounds like that's

kind of the process you went through. So talk to me about that decision-making process of selecting a market because lots of people ask this question of Dave and myself all the time. What market should I pick. What went into you researching a market? And then what did you eventually land on? So I would say all of the work that I put in to try to find the right market for me was ultimately finding a place where I could have a home that could cash flow in a market that had a lot of opportunity and experiencing a resurgence. I feel like for me, I don't want to buy a house that's over half a million dollars for my first home as a run-o and things go south as a result of just jumping into deep. And I wanted to have a place where I could buy homes at a decent price

and be able to provide value and force that appreciation. I like that one of your criteria was in not just an affordable market, but a market where you can afford the price point, but is going through a resurgence, I believe it's a wording that you used, which is a pretty smart thing because essentially what you're saying is you're on the front of the wave of new interest in an area, right? And so that helps you to ride rent prices up. It helps you to ride appreciation up. That's a good thing to look.

look for. So what market did you find that fit your criteria? Yep. So the market that I operate in solely at this point is Detroit. So right there in the Midwest, I know that there's been quite a few people that I've talked about it now recently, but I remember back, you know, some time ago that Detroit wasn't a place where a lot of people would touch. But I would say now the narrative has changed quite a bit. And, you know, I'm just trying to be a part of it and add value to the community where I can. That's a big city to jump into. What gave you the confidence that that was the right choice. I did some due diligence just to understand what was happening in a few different markets. And one thing that I appreciated about Detroit in particular is that over the last few years,

it has been experiencing population growth, which is something that couldn't have been said about the city, you know, for quite a few years prior. Yeah. So that was one of the biggest things that stood out to me. And then seeing the rent to price ratio being what it was, I thought that this could be a good opportunity for me to jump into a market where I can provide value and then also do bird deals and get that infinite cash on cash return that everyone's kind of seeking right now. And I assume you didn't have any ties there. You've never lived there. This was just a completely cold market for you. Yep. I've had zero relationships in the city of Detroit prior to, prior to doing the due diligence, it just came down to where I thought things could work and where I wanted to give it a

try and see what could happen. I think the biggest thing is just giving yourself a shot. And I think that that's what mattered to me the most is where can I go, where I can have a shot. And For me, you know, it's only an hour and 15-minute flight from the Philadelphia airport. So a little bit of convenience. Did you go to the market prior to buying anything? Prior to buying the first house, no. I had a lot of conversations with agents. I actually used the bigger pocket agent finder to have a conversation with a few different agents.

Ended up landing on one from using that system. And once he gave me the rundown of where to look at in the city and what not to look at, That's when we started the search. So that's how we all started. I love it. Shameless plug for the bigger pocket's agent finder tool. But one of the hardest parts about out-of-state investing isn't finding the deals and it isn't finding money for deals.

It's simply building a team of people that you can trust from a distance because that team of people, like they are your literal lifeline to your deals. They can make or break you, whether you're going to be profitable or not profitable. And it can be a scary thing to have to figure out how to find a team of people that you can trust in a place that you've never been to. And good agents are typically very well connected in the real estate community. Good agents have a list of trusted contractors, trusted lenders, trusted title companies. So I love that you used the Bigger Pockets Agent Finder to finder to find an agent that you could start to work with, start to build a relationship with. did that agent help introduce you to some of the other people that you're working with on your

on your team now yes 100 percent and i would say that's the the most important part for me was i wanted to make sure i found an agent that actively invested themselves so that i knew they had resources that i could also count on as well so he was the gateway and i i can attest a lot of my success from the early going to him and getting me started in that particular market so you landed on Detroit, and now you got to put your money where your mouth is, right? So what did your first deal in an out-of-state market look like? All right. So my first deal, it was a two-bed, one-bed from house with a one-car garage. I purchased this home for $59,000, and I put in roughly $18,000 into the home, so I'd say the all-in was around $77. And when the home appraised, it appraised that $89,000.

Okay, had a little bit of equity. Yep. So ended up having about $15,000, I would say, was left in the deal when it was all set and done. But when I looked at the equity, I had over $27,000 built up. So I felt like for me that was a pretty solid win, just given my first introductory into it and learning just a different market. 59,000 is a pretty low price point and $18,000 for the rent-out. So that's about $77,000. Some lenders won't go under $100,000. So how the heck did you find some money for this deal? Yeah. So for this deal, it was using 0% interest credit cards. So that was what I did for the first deal. Okay. So you went and you found a credit card with 0% interest. I'm assuming for some introductory period. How long was that credit card on 0%

interest? Yep. So the cards all had at least a 12 month 0% interest period. So that's what I ran with for the first deal. So you put yourself on a clock. You had to get this deal renovated and refinanced within that period or else you're going to get hit with a bunch of interest. Yep, so I was under the gun. Okay, and how long did it take you to get this one renovated? This house, it only required about 18 grand of rehab, and it was mostly cosmetic. So I'd say the turnaround was about a month and a half or two max. Oh, that's really good, man.

That's really good. I think that using an interest-only credit card to invest in real estate is absolutely possible, but not everyone should do it, right? That's a strategy for someone who's very responsible with their money because the consequences of you not being responsible are far greater than if you take out maybe like a hard money or private money loan because you're going to get hit with what 25% interest sometimes and they backdake that interest from the first payment. So if you aren't good with money, this probably isn't the strategy for you. But if you are responsible and can sustain the payments and get that thing paid off in the introductory period, I think using interest-only credit cards, it's truly just access to money and money is the tool.

But you've got to understand the rules of the money that you're borrowing. And it sounds like you did pretty good getting the renovation done in a couple of months. So you bought the property. You finished the renovation. You rented the property out. Then you went to refinance it so you could pay off the credit cards. you had to leave $15,000 in? So there was still a delta that was left in.

So that $15,000, I paid out of pocket. So it's always important to have reserves and make sure that you do have cash on hand. So I did use the 15 that I had, you know, stashed away to cover that amount. But once I seen the amount of equity that I could have forced, there's so much more opportunity, which led me to go into the next deal. Okay. That's amazing. And so what lessons did you learn in that very first deal?

because up until this, it was conceptual. You had picked a market. You hadn't been there yet. It all looked good on paper. But then you executed. Did your execution match the research? So I wouldn't say it did entirely, but I only say that because I think I walked into it, expecting the ARV to be slightly higher when I realized that you make money on the buy.

So I had to be mindful that next time my purchase should be lower so that I can achieve that perfect burr that everyone's looking for in 2026. I assume then this was a deal you found on the MLS. Yep. The first deal I found was on the MLS. I mean, that's a solid base hit. First deal. Sounds like you essentially got paid to get an education.

You bought a rental property. You rented the thing out. And now you've got all these lessons, which you were hopefully able to take into the next deal. And so I'd love to dive in to what your next deal look like in Detroit. But we're going to do that right after the break. Most investors spend more time chasing deals than reviewing their insurance. But a quick coverage check can be fast, easy, and one of these smartest ways to protect and even improve your property's cash flow. As the months get colder, frozen pipes, icy walkways,

and seasonal wear and tear can increase the likelihood of claims. And traditional insurance companies aren't always built to handle these claims quickly or smoothly. That's why more real estate investors are turning to steadily. They focus exclusively on landlords, whether it's a single-family rental, a burr builder's risk policy, or midterm holiday guests. You get fast quotes, flexible coverage, and protection for property damage, liability, and even loss of rental income. Now is the perfect time to review your rates and coverage. Get a quote in minutes at BiggerPockets.com slash landlord insurance. Steadily, landlord insurance designed for the modern investor. Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle,

active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress? Here's a better question. What if you could buy brand new construction homes, 10% below market value, and the best markets across the country, without making real estate your second job? That's exactly what rent-to-retirement does. They're a full-service, turnkey investment company handling everything for you. In some cases, investors get 50 to 75% of their down payment back at closing, plus interest rates as low as 3.75%. They've partnered with Bigger Pockets for over a decade, helping thousands invest smarter.

If you want to do the same, visit biggerpockets.com slash retirement to learn more. Billion dollar investors don't typically park their cash in high-yield savings accounts. Instead, they often use one of the premier passive income strategies for institutional investors, private credit. Now, the same passive income strategy is available to investors of all sizes, thanks to the Fundrise income fund, which is more than $600 million invested in a 7.97% distribution rate. But traditional savings yields falling, it's no wonder private credit has grown to be a trillion dollar asset class in the last few years. Visit fundrise.com slash pockets to invest in the Fundrise Income Fund in just minutes.

The fund's total return in 2025 was 8%, and the average annual total return since inception is 7.8%. Past performance does not guarantee future results, current distribution rate as of 1231, 2021, 2025. Carefully consider the investment material before investing, including objectives, risks, charges, and expenses. This and other information can be found in the income fund's perspective. this at fundrises.com This is a paid advertising. You've upgraded how to buy properties, but did your insurance get the memo? When investors start scaling, insurance can't be an afterthought.

Most policies were designed for a single property, not multiple rentals, LLC ownership, short-term stays, or properties mid-rehab. That's where blind spots can creep in. NREG works exclusively with real estate investors. They understand portfolios, how risk compounds as you grow, and why insurance should protect your upside, not just a checkbox. One uncovered claim can undo years of progress. Before your next acquisition, review your insurance.

Talk to NREG and get investor-specific coverage from specialists who actually understand real estate at NREG.com slash BPPod. That's N-R-E-I-G.com slash B-Podod. All right, we are back on the Bigger Pockets podcast with investor Nick Burke, who just finished telling us about his very first out-of-state deal investing in Detroit while living in New Jersey. You learned a lot of lessons. You had some success. Some things didn't go exactly to plan, but it sounds. like you've made a plan to be successful on the next deal. So what did the second one look like? The second deal, I made sure that I was going to stick to my buybox. And I took my time and waited for it.

This deal, I ended up purchasing in December of 2024. So this was a three bedroom, one bathroom, two car garage, purchased at 62,000. The rehab was roughly 19,000. So my all-in was right around 81. And when the house appraised, it ended up appraising at 128,000. Okay, so you bought this 3-1, needed 19 in renovation. That's not bad for a 3-1, only needing 19,000 in renovation. Not bad. And then all in for 81. Is this in the same neighborhood or did you change areas? I changed areas. So the first home was purchased on the west side of Detroit.

This one's over on the east side. Okay. And what made you change areas? I was looking for the right opportunity to buy it, to have a good purchase price. So I made it clear that, you know, I wanted to find a house that fit my buybox. and for me at the time was south of 70 with an ARV of 125K or more. Ah, so you were looking for higher value homes? Yes, I think that's what I was really trying to target.

I would definitely say that I settled for the first house because I wanted to get into the game so much that I took whatever came my way versus the second deal I made so I stuck to my guns and picked the house that made sense for me. Again, taking the lessons learned, which was that you wanted more value and that you wanted to purchase better, and then you applied that by finding a neighborhood where values were higher, but you kept your purchase price fairly low in comparison to what that property's size was. So you paid 62, you had to put 19 in it. You're all in for 81. Did you use the credit cards again or how did you get this one done? So for this particular deal, at this point, I feel like I had a little bit of momentum. So I reached out to a private money person. I said, listen, I have a deal. You know, here are all the comps. Here's the breakdown. I'll cover the rehab. If you can cover the purchase price. So they covered the 62 acquisition, and I paid the rehab out of pocket. How did you connect with this private lender? It was a friend of mine that also had some interest, you know, in the business and wanting

to do real estate. And I said, well, hey, look, I think I have a good thing going on out here. Let's have a dialogue and see if we can make something work as an introductory for you in real estate and then also for me to show you what a deal looks like. This is great because one of the ways to get into this business is to partner with people. And oftentimes when people hear the word partner, they think there's an equity share. A partnership can just be a lending relationship as well. Right.

So you knew you had somebody that had some income that they wanted to invest with. And after doing your first deal plus running out your primary probably made you feel like, hey, I've got some experience. Because remember, borrowing money, folks, is a responsibility, right? Like you were going to use somebody else's money to help to build a portfolio. You have to be able to do it responsibly. So you found a deal you had some confidence in. Now, a lot of people are scared to have.

conversations with people about borrowing private money. What was that experience like? Did you feel like you were going and begging somebody for money? Did you feel like you were offering them an opportunity? Like how did you present yourself in this conversation? Yeah. So the goal for me was to establish a mutually beneficial relationship. It's an opportunity for them to get a return on their funds more than what they can get in the stock market or through different avenues. And since there was already trust prior to, it was very easy to kind of pitch the idea and say, listen, here are the exact numbers. Here's why I'm confident. It's either yes or no. Do you want to do it or not? That's it. That's the secret sauce because you never have to view talking to a private lender as you

asking for money. In my opinion, you're providing them an opportunity. Because if you truly do have a good deal that you're getting some equity in on day one, then you're giving them an opportunity that's backed by a real estate asset that provides some level of protection. And it sounds like you were able to buy a reasonable deal. Bought for 62. You financed the 19 out of pocket, all in for 81, refinance for 128, where you, did you pull everything out on that refinance or did you have to leave some in there as well? Nope.

I had the ability to pull out up to $96,000. So there was more than enough to pay off the lender, put a little cash in my pocket, and still have quite a bit equity in the deal. this would be your second property that you're managing a renovation on. And it sounds like you're getting them done pretty efficiently. So A, how did you find the contractor you used for the first one? And then B, did you use the same contractor again on the second one? Yes, I did use the same contractor on both deals. And this contractor actually came from the agent that I worked with. He actively works with them as well for his projects. So I said, listen, I'm not going to, if it ain't broke,

I ain't going to fix it. If it works, I'm going to follow the process. And, you know, it's been good business so far. I love it. Again, a testament to finding that first connection that you found on the bigger pockets agent finder. I love it. All right. So second deal, pulled off the perfect burr.

What happened next? All right. So on the third deal, this is another house, same area, three bed, one and a half bath, one car garage. Yeah. I wanted to try a different contractor because I wanted to try different finishes. I said, let me take a step up and try to take a swing and do a flip. and the contractor, it did not work.

Oh, no. It turned into a pretty bad situation where we had to get them off the project. And it kind of made me lose confidence on the deal because of how the situation went left. But luckily, as a result, the prior contractor ended up hopping in, finishing up the work. And then we ended up deciding to rent the house out. Okay. But that house ended up appraising for $155,000, which was very nice. 155K appraisal.

What did you purchase it for? I ended up purchasing that house for $52,000. I needed quite a bit of work. Renovation for that one ended up being $42,000. So you're all in for $94. Appraised for $1.55, that's solid enough where you could have sold it and walked away with a little bit of cash, but you decided to rent it out and keep it. How long did the renovation take on this one, considering you had to switch contractors? So that one took some time.

I'm going to say that took just north of, I think, four months. Okay. That was quite a bit of work that needed to be done. switching and trying to just make sure we had everything done. Hey, buddy, four months isn't that long. Do you pulled off a four month renovation having contractor issues? I'd say that's pretty solid still. So good job. Good job there. Appreciate it, man. Do you still have this one? Yep. I borrow everything and hold on to everything. So that one's still in the portfolio and we're still rolling. Okay. And financing for this one. How did you structure the dollars? Yes. So for this deal, this was actually with the same

private money lender I worked with prior to, except he wanted in on the action. So this time I said, hey, listen, like, you know, we can do, it can be a 50-50 setup. You know, you provide the funds. I'll do all the groundwork to get the project from getting in. So the first one, you paid a return on the money. The second one, you didn't have to pay a return. You just had to give a 50% of your deal. So you got the money essentially for free. Correct. All right, Nick. Well, it sounds like you've done quite a bit, investing out of state, leveraging private money, doing full burs. A lot of people are struggling to be able to pull off these things who are experienced and you're doing them as a fairly new investor. So that's pretty cool. I'm curious and I have

a couple more questions, both on how you're managing these properties and on how you're managing these renovations from a distance because I manage my own renovations here in my backyard and tend to have struggles. So I want to dive into those things, but we're going to do it right after the break. Across Canada in a Volvo. Destination, Vancouver. Turn left to leave. Travel west through Approaching. Continue toward you've arrived. Adventure and comfort with Volvo. Whether you prefer gas, plug-in hybrid, or fully electric,

there's a Volvo for everyone. Learn more at VolvoCars.ca. All right, we're back on the Bigger Pockets podcast with investor Nick Burke, who has been investing in Detroit while living in New Jersey and doing it pretty successfully, I might add. But investing out of state does come with some challenges. And a couple of those challenges are you've got to manage those properties and you've got to manage the day-to-day of those renovations. So let's start with managing the renovations.

Can you give us maybe some insight into like what the day-to-day looks like for you in terms of managing those renovations? Because if you can't just show up at the job site and make sure they're doing the things that are on the scope of work and the way you want them to be done, you've got to have some sort of system or process to be able to help you figure out or make sure that that's happening. What does that look like for your business? So for me, I try to have daily touchpoints when possible just to get an update on where we're at if there's any shortcomings. So they might say, hey, you know, we said we needed this much LVP, but it looks like we're going to be short. Like, you know, can we make sure that we have more ordered or whatever the case is? I like to try to find out everything in real time.

I don't like to kind of get surprises, you know, days later when the project could be falling apart. So I try to do my best to stay active almost every morning. I'll reach out just to try to get some sort of a status update. And then upon completion of one of the phases, I'll ask for photos just to make sure that I have all the updates that I need. If I absolutely need someone to go check it out, I can reach out to someone to say, hey, do you mind dropping by this property? Just give me a quick walkthrough just to make sure everything's okay. But for the most part, I try to rock on the honor system. If I can do anything with the contractor and they're able to show me photos or give me any confirmation at the work.

done, then that's enough for me. You got a pretty good contractor because if you're not having to make sure every eye is dotted and every T has crossed, then you're in a pretty good place because I've been there. And that's tough even when you can go to the properties yourself. Oh, no, it happens. It still happens. Occasionally, if I go out there, you know, I'll bring some blue tape with me and I'll kind of see certain things that I wasn't expecting. I'm like, damn, I thought we talked about this. What's this over here? But it's an overall positive experience. And let's talk about managing those properties. So are you property managing or are you outsourcing that?

I manage everything 100% myself. I feel like the best way to learn about real estate and about the process is to do it yourself. It's hard to pass off everything that you built to someone else. And then you don't know enough about it to be able to manage the property manager. So I think the best way for me to do it right now is learn while I'm growing. and then at some point when the portfolio gets to a size where I can't do it on my own, then I'll go down the path of outsourcing later. There's no wrong answer here, guys.

There are pros and cons to both decisions. And I think there are a lot of people who are firmly in the, you should manage everything yourself boat, and there are people who are firmly in the higher a third party manager boat. And like I said, there's not a wrong decision here. This is about what lifestyle you want and how much time do you have, right? If you want a lifestyle where you're more hands off, then you need to be making sure that you are buying at an appropriate enough price point to afford to pay a property manager to manage this at market

rates, which is typically going to be 10%. And if you have the time to manage your properties yourself and you want to give it a shot, then by all means, yes, you're going to learn a ton. Learn a ton about what you want out of a property manager by you managing yourself. I was never going to hire a manager. I thought I was going to self-manage forever because no one's going to care about my properties as much as I do. And what I learned is I was right. No one is going to care about my properties as much as I do. But also, there are other people who may not care as much, but they can operate more efficiently. And the fact that they operate more efficiently sometimes puts more money in my pocket than just caring more, essentially, about the portfolio. And if they have a professional business, part of their goal should be to provide the best experience, both for tenants and for landlords.

So can you put maybe some numbers to it? How much time per week would you say maybe that you spend managing your portfolio for people who are considering making that decision having a full-time job? I would say three or four hours at the most. As long as you have things set up, it's not bad at all. You're just got to have the right tenant management portal. Exactly. That's about what I was spending. You were anywhere between two to five hours a week on average, you get the random situation that that takes a bunch of time here and there. But for the most part, these are things you can do absolutely doing your part-time and learn a lot. I like that. And then lastly, one of the keys to managing your properties successfully is understanding the market and market rents. And so

pricing your properties at the right price point, as well as managing rent raises where necessary. typically that's something that's easier for somebody who's investing in their backyard because they understand the market a little better. How do you stay on top of making sure that you're charging the right amount of rent and that you're hopefully keeping up with market rents as rents go up in your market? So for me, I lean on the professional. So my leasing agent, my actual agent that helps me with purchasing the homes on the front end, I'll always check in with them and say, hey, you know, before I get this one in the market, what do you think this is worth? What do you think is going on in this particular neighborhood that can maybe justify an increase or how is it looking year over year so that I can always make sure that I'm pricing effectively?

That's awesome. And you said leasing agents. So I'm assuming you're using a real estate agent to help you place tenants and then you take over from there. Yep. That's correct. Awesome. So a lot of people don't even know that that's a thing, right? They think I have to self-manage. I have to find my own tenants. And you don't have to do that. They're actually real estate agents who specialize in finding tenants. They will take some sort of a fee and it can vary depending on agents. Some of them will take the first month's rent. Some of them will take half the first month's rent. But if finding tenants isn't your strong suit, you can just outsource a portion of that and then you can manage the property going forward, man. I like that, man. Nick, it sounds like you've built a business that seems to fit your lifestyle. You've done things that I think people would think are scary or challenging and you seem to have pulled them off successfully. So what does the future look like? Are we going to continue to go down the road doing the single family deals in Detroit? Are we

moving on to bigger properties? Yeah, so I'd say right now I'm focused on continuing to invest in Detroit with the single-family homes. I feel like there's a lot of value there. Currently, I'm up to six houses, and I have a seventh under contract right now. Hey, congrats. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm working, man.

I'm trying to keep it going. So the goal right now is to continue building it out. And I'm not really looking for a particular number right now. I think I'm looking for financial flexibility. It's not about looking to leave the job. I feel like the W2 is a launch pad. So you have to actually use it for what it's worth instead of rushing to wanting to get out of working. So that's my big goal right now is just trying to continue to reinvest all the funds back into the business so I can scale at a rate that I feels appropriate.

What's the goal with work? Are we planning to continue to work? Are we planning to leave the corporate world at some point? Yeah, for me, I intend to stay as long as they'll have me. If I can say in the workforce until, you know, retirement age, I'll do it. You know, I enjoy what I do. I'm okay with it. And the goal for me, again, is financial flexibility.

I want to be able to, you know, do things on my own terms, but also, you know, have the funds to be able to live a life that's comfortable for my family. I like that. I like the term financial flexibility because having that extra income obviously allows you to do things that maybe some other people don't get to do. And this is the joy of real estate investing is you can build a portfolio that fits the last style that you want. And I am all for people continuing to work while they invest. I think having a job while you invest makes investing so much easier. You're more bankable. You've got income coming

in that you can depend on because a lot of the times rental property income is not very dependable. If something breaks more than you expect it to break, some of that money is now being allocated to fixing something, right? And it makes it more fun, in my opinion, because you know you don't have to eat from the deals that you do. There's just a difference when you have to do something because you enjoy it and you have to do something because you got to feed your face. You know what I mean? So I like that approach, man. Congratulations on your success, Mr. Nick Burke. This has been a fun conversation. I really, really appreciate all the insights. Is there any tip or lesson that you've learned that if you had to leave the listeners who are considering doing something similar to what

you're doing that you would say, hey, this is the one thing you want to make sure that you look out for because this is something that I either learned or changed or helped save you in a situation. Yeah. So the one thing I would want to leave with the listeners is that you need to just focus on getting involved. I know it can be difficult getting stuck in the analysis paralysis stage. But the moment that you take it from a thought to an action is when I think everything

changes. Yeah. So if there's anyone out there that's stuck in that spot. I was there for a lot of years. So whatever it takes for you guys to make that switch, do it. And I promise you, you'll thank yourself later. Awesome. Thank you so much, Mr. Nickberg.

This has been an incredible story. I appreciate you sharing your journey with us and being transparent. And I love the fact that you took some very calculated risks. And even if it didn't work out perfectly, you were able to document the things that didn't work out well. So you didn't repeat those. And it seems like it's brought you a substantial. substantial amount of success so far, and I wish you all the success going forward to your career.

So thank you very much for your story. Appreciate it, Henry. Thank you very much. Everybody else listening. Hope you got some great value from this episode, and we'll see you on the next episode of the Bigger Pockets Podcast. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other

podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K, copywriting is by Calicoke content, and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter,

please visit www.w.w.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk. So use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. BiggerPockets LLC disclaims,

all liability for direct, indirect, consequential, or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast. The Madamy Holmes Bike for Brain Health supporting Baycrest returns on May 31 for its fifth anniversary with a new start and finish at the Aga Khan Museum. Join thousands of cyclists as we take over the DVP and Gardner Expressway in support of dementia research and brain health. Riders of all abilities are welcome and both regular bikes and e-bikes can participate. Bring your friends, family, or corporate team, and make an impact. Register today at bikeforbrainhealth. ACA.