BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 731: From Losing EVERYTHING in the Last Crash to $9,000,000 Income in 9 Years w/Brent Daniels

Episode Date: February 23, 2023

The last housing crash wasn’t a good time for most Americans. And for Brent Daniels, it was the worst time of his life. Before the crash, he was riding high, making six figures, living in a big house with a new car, and building a real estate brokerage with eighty employees. Then, the market started to tank, and so did Brent’s revenue. He had to let go of all eighty workers, watch his car get repossessed, and witness his wife leaving him. But that wasn’t all. The ten-year office lease for his brokerage was still due, and the owners shackled him with seven hundred thousand dollars of debt. Brent hit rock bottom as his reputation lay ruined, forced to stay with friends to survive. He slowly got back into real estate, making a few hundred dollars here and there. But then, one day, Brent stumbled upon an assignment fee. He watched one of his friends walk away with a five-figure check simply for flipping a contract to an investor. Thus, the wholesaling fire was sparked, and Brent gave up his dreams of becoming a top agent or real estate investor. He hit the phones, finding as many motivated sellers as possible. From there, Brent shares how he built a business that does over a million dollars a year with just four team members, why he doesn’t invest heavily in real estate, and the exact script he uses to get hefty wholesale fees from motivated sellers. Now, with a net worth of over eight million dollars, Brent has proven that no comeback is impossible and that the best foundation for success is rock bottom. In This Episode We Cover: Overleveraging and Brent’s mistakes that made him lose everything in the last crash The toxic “supreme ego” that will push you to take risks that are never worth it Paying off six figures in debt and how to rebuild when starting from below zero  The secret to talking to motivated sellers and the four pillars of negotiation in a deal Cold calling tips and what you should NEVER say to a seller  How to scale a LEAN business that operates almost entirely without you  A glimpse into an alternate universe where Henry Washington is David Greene’s wife  And So Much More! Links from the Show Find an Investor-Friendly Real Estate Agent BiggerPockets Youtube Channel BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Pro Membership BiggerPockets Bookstore BiggerPockets Bootcamps BiggerPockets Podcast BiggerPockets Merch Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Learn About Real Estate, The Housing Market, and Money Management with The BiggerPockets Podcasts Get More Deals Done with The BiggerPockets Investing Tools Find a BiggerPockets Real Estate Meetup in Your Area David's BiggerPockets Profile David's Instagram David’s YouTube Channel Work with David Henry's BiggerPockets Profile Henry's Instagram The Newbie’s Guide to Wholesaling in 7 Simple Steps 5 Cold Calling Techniques That Really Work 3 Types of Motivated Sellers (& How to Win Deals By Solving Their Problems!) How to Stop Worrying and Start Living Books Mentioned in the Show Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki Connect with Brent: Brent's Instagram Brent's Website Brent's YouTube Click here to listen to the full episode: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-731 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Check out our sponsor page! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockus podcast show, 731. I think a lot of people just hold on to leads too much because they're like, oh, it's a lead. I love this lead. I'm going to coddle it and I'm going to keep it here and I'm not going to push them too hard and I'm going to be really nice. And I'm going to bring them, you know, sweets and I'm going to stop by and I'm going to be, you know, I'm not going to prequalify them too much. I'm just when they're ready, they'll tell me their price and we'll make a deal. And that never happens.

you need to have a conversation of what is the condition, timeline, motivation, price. And if you understand and the timeline is the most important thing in that, because if they've made the decision that they're going to sell that property, that's who you really get in front of. What's going on out, everyone? This is David Green, your host of the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast, the best, the biggest, and the baddest real estate investing podcast in the world. Here today with my co-host, Henry Washington,

where we bring you another amazing interview today with Brent. Daniels. Brent runs a wholesaling business that is very successful, talks to a lot of people and frequently puts deals together that other people would let die. And in today's show, we hear about his rags to riches story and a lot of other information. Henry, first off, good morning. And second, what were some of your favorite parts of today's interview. Hey, man, good morning. Happy to be here. Oh, man, what an incredible story. I think we all love to hear a rags to riches story because it shows us all what we're capable of, what's possible. And what I love about Brent's story is, man, he went through some lows, didn't he? And so it's a wonderful story about how to prepare yourself

for what could be the unknown, how to pivot your business if you need to, and then how not to give up, but rebuild in a smarter way and leveraging all of the skills. Because all Brett did was leverage the skills that he had built prior to everything falling apart. He just leveraged them in a different way to rebuild himself bigger or better than ever. Yeah, that's exactly right. And if you're following what's going on in the economy, then you should recognize it's very likely. I don't know, we'll see it to the scale of what we saw in 08 through 2010. But it's very likely we're going to see similar things happening to what happened to Brent.

So you better start preparing yourself now for what to do when they happen and how to play those cards. Because there's a lot of people that can be going through very similar circumstances to what today's guest went through himself. Also, you want to make sure you listen all the way to the end in this one because you will get to see what a marriage between Henry and I would look like in an alternative universe. I have an uncomfortable question for you. If your rent collection drop to 80% next month, how long would your cash flow hold up? What about 70% for the next three months? Would your cash reserves cover it? I talk all the time about scenario planning. Smart investors don't just model the upside. They also pressure test the downside.

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That's N-R-E-I-G.com slash B-PPod. Today's quick tip is right to you by Henry Washington. Yes, today's quick tip is to remember to stay grounded. We talk about in this episode epiphany points, epiphany moments. There are things that, and you may have. have already had your epiphany moment when you're listening to this. It may be why you're listening to this. Difficult times happen. Challenges will happen. But if you can remember back to that moment when you knew you had to make a change or you knew you were at your lowest and you can see that

you're not there anymore and you may not be where you want to be, but you're not where you were when you had that epiphany moment. It will help you realize that things are better than you think they are and you're moving in the right direction. So make sure you write down those epiphany moments. Make sure you reference them often. Great point, Henry. Thank you for that. Let's bring in Brent. Today's guest on the podcast is Brent Daniels. Brent is a wholesaler who runs a wholesaling business. He's been grossing over a million dollars for the last six years, has hacked cold calling and is here to tell you how you can to. And as a fun fact, he was a Hall of Fame football player at his college. And I thought he was a professional wrestler. Brent, welcome to the show.

Well, I am excited. Listen, this is the greatest. business of all time. This is the greatest real estate podcast of all time. So I think we're going to have a lot of fun. I love you, David. I love Henry. This is, I'm honored to be here and excited to share my story and hopefully give some tactics for people that are listening. Yeah, I appreciate you saying that. One of my favorite parts about your story that I've heard so far is the rags to riches element of it. I mean, you went from the lowest of lows. That's no offense. It just sounds like a horrible, horrible situation and just fought your way out of that thing to be at a point where so many people are trying to get to right now.

And I love these stories because they're like when you get from a point you don't want to be to a point you do, breadcrumbs get left. And then other people can follow that path. And as more people make it out of the bottom and get to the top, it makes the path that much more clear for everyone who's coming behind. So we're going to do our best to try to identify those breadcrumbs today. So our listeners can follow your journey. Before we get into it, is there anything specific?

about like how you had it and you lost it and you got it back that you would say sort of highlights what your journey has been like. Any lesson or element or motto that you took where it was formed during those times? Yeah, I remember I was driving and my son was like maybe 16 months old. This is 2013 and he was crying. He had his like fifth ear infection and those are just horrible, horrible. And so I was listening, I was trying to listen to the audible of Dale Carnegie, the guy that wrote Think and Grow Rich. He had another book called How to Stop Worrying and Start Living. And I'm listening to this book. I've got a crying baby and I'm like, you know, I've reflected a lot. I've done a lot of self-work on myself. I need to go out and do something. I need to be a I need to go out and and find some

way to turn this whole thing around. And I think it was that that moment right there that that was like, okay, I need to just go out and I need to go into the streets. I need to find property owners that have these older rundown, beat up houses and I need to talk to them. And that's that's what changed everything for me. And up until that point, it was just a disaster. I mean, I screwed everything that I could financially and emotionally, I think. It's like this walnut size thing in my brain that I go back to whenever I think I'm really cool or I've made a bunch or, you know, I try to get over my skis a little bit. I go back to that day listening to that audible book and be like, what? Oh my gosh. Life is so much better now. That's funny, man, because I had a,

you know, for me, they're epiphany moments, right? I had a very similar epiphany moment in my life. mine unfortunately was a panic attack, but it's the panic attack that changed my life, right? And I always look back at that as this kind of place marker in my life where, uh, everything started to turn around, right? And, uh, and so I love that. You share that. You said this was about 2013. Yeah. And you had never done a deal then. No, I had, I had, I had been in real estate since 2004. So, um, I had read Rich Dad Poor Dad in 2003 and I was like, That was it, right? I mean, I feel like there's two paths there.

You read it and you're like, oh, real estate is going to be my life or you read and you're like, I don't care about this, right? I really think that. And so I got a real estate license. There wasn't YouTube. There wasn't podcasts. There wasn't bigger pockets. There wasn't anything out there to really give me direction.

So I didn't know the vocabulary. I didn't know what was going on. All I knew was that I had to learn about real estate and there was real estate school. So I'll just go to that and get a license. So I did that. and it was great. It was great. It was 2004.

You know what I mean? The market was going bananas. Everything was exciting. I was learning how to help people buy and sell. And I have a lot of family here in Phoenix. And so they wanted to move and take advantage of their appreciation. So, you know, when you're 22, 23 years old and you make, you know, $100,000, you're like, I'm the greatest real estate entrepreneur.

all time. Like the good times are going to go on forever. This is going to be incredible. And I really, and I started, you know, the natural progression. That is I wanted to open up a brokerage that would be like an investment slash real estate brokerage. And I ended up, you know, I was told, well, you could buy properties and these loans. I mean, you don't even have to put much down. And they started like one or two percent. And they stayed there with that. way for a while and when they adjust and I had no idea what adjustable rate mortgages were when they adjust you just sell the properties and life's good and and that's what I did and in 2007-8 I bought five properties and 2009-10 lost them all had a really nice Mercedes had a really nice

range rover those got repoed nothing is crazier than seeing some burly dude with like flashing red uh yellow lights pull your car that you put all your pride and ego into from your driveway uh and just just leave and so uh that was really rough but that that that was tough but the the the tougher part was right before it changed in january of 2008 i signed an office lease for 10 years with a person guarantee for 9,000 square feet for this brokerage that I was building. And, you know, October of 2008, economic world melted. No deals would sell traditionally on the market. Short sales still couldn't be negotiated. And in Phoenix, we went, we dropped like 67% in value.

Wow, man. That's, you know, you know, that's intense because it sounds like, What you did was you learned about real estate, decided this was going to be your life. You went all in. You had some success. And then you built this team. Like a brokerage is a big deal. Like it's not something small. Talk to us a little bit about like what that brokerage looked like.

How many people did you have? Like what did you put in to build that? Yeah. We had 80 people. And I had four other partners. You know, we had office staff and we had everything. and it, you know, when income's not coming in and you've got, you know, huge expenses, it goes down, it goes down fast.

And everybody looked, looked to me and the other owners as leaders. And we're scrambling. We're 20, you know, nine years old. We're 28 years old. I don't know what's going on. I've never gone through anything like this. And so, yeah, that was the hardest thing. That was the hardest thing, Henry was, was letting,

looking people in the eye and telling us, we can't keep you around anymore and having to let everybody go. And that's, that's really influenced my business principles to this day, big time. I mean, that's a, that's a big,

big, you know, for lack of a better term, that's a big gut punch, right? Not just to your, to your personal, right,

seeing, seeing your cars get, you know, taken out of your driveway. But, you know, we talked a little bit about this a week ago, right?

What was it last? or what was kind of the most painful part? Like you had to let like how many people go? And then like what was the turning point in that downturn that made you go, okay, this isn't, this isn't the end for me. Yeah, that took a long time. There was a big hangover after that experience. But it was we had, we had five staff members full time. And we had 70 agents at the time that all had to scatter to other.

brokerages or get out of the business. And that office lease that I signed as a personal guarantee, the interesting thing is, in case anybody didn't know this, but if you don't pay that, they sue you. Like, so here I am. I've never, I've never been near a lawsuit before. And I've got this, you know, the, the attorneys come in and saying you owe $742,000 to this, this property owner and I was like there's there's nothing I can do like and then and then my business partners left went to California took the books so I couldn't file taxes on time so I couldn't do a

bankruptcy so this thing dragged out and it was like a weight on my shoulders and it was one it was hugely embarrassing because you build up a reputation in the real estate business it's not a huge huge community. And so that all went down and losing all the investment properties and having nothing in the accounts. And then my wife at the time was like, this is bananas. This is a, you've got an anchor around your neck. I'm out of here. So you throw a divorce on top of that. And it turned real ugly internally, really, really, really ugly. Yeah, that's something I think we should take a moment to highlight because that happened to you, but it doesn't sound like you made any huge mistakes. It wasn't like you made an obvious bad decision. You didn't get into drugs. You didn't

go buy completely stupid things. I mean, you did what most people do when they're making decent money. It's very easy, very easy to do this. And it's easy for this to happen to anybody. That's the first point I just want to highlight for everybody listening. The second is that's why pivoting is so important. Like, you've got to be okay, building it, losing it. and building it again because you don't know what's going to happen in the environment around you. You don't know what the government's going to do. You don't know what macroeconomic policies are going to do. We don't know if we're going to be going to war. These things happened quick. No one knew that COVID was coming. Nobody knew when September 11th was going to hit that something could happen the day that this

podcast drops. Like we don't know. It's this ability to be able to look at the information and adapt that makes you successful versus that. Just give me a blueprint. Tell me what to do. I just want to take four steps and I want to like build up some money. So as you're in this situation where things are very ugly internally, as well as your personal life, I mean, that's to now have your partner leaving you at your lowest. I can't only imagine what that's like. Like you already feel like crap. Your self-esteem is taking a hit. You turn to the person who's supposed to be in the trenches with you and there's nothing there. They're like, peace. I'm looking for greener pasture somewhere else. Just you. What kind of thoughts were going through your mind? Like when you would wake up in the day,

what was your day like? I was paralyzed. I'll be honest with you. Like it's not like I was like, oh, you know what? I read this book and I met this person and everything just turned around and I got back on the saddle and I was riding. It was like five years of just kind of figuring out how to get by a good friend of mine, Dustin Monger, who's an incredible real estate investor.

He let me stay. He had a rental prom. that he was in and it was just him and his dog so he let me like stay in his room there it wasn't a couch it's not that couch story that that seems so popular but uh i i was just i moved all my stuff out of my 4,000 square foot house and i i was left with just a few boxes and my bed and i moved in there and um i was able to get an opportunity with a remax brokerage that was selling all the a reos right the the bank owned properties and the the market went way down in phoenix and these properties were like 40 50 000 and i was the guy that was answering the sign calls so people will call up just on the streets hey i want to see this house and so all day every day i'd have to drive around town uh in this beat up old lexas that my dad gave me at 2 000 es 300 lexas that was like sand colored. You know what I mean? That had just had terrible hail damage. And I'm riding around in this

thing and showing properties and making maybe like 500 bucks, a thousand bucks after splits, trying to do that. And then as soon as I'd like get my head above water a little bit, I'd get a call from the guy's attorney and they'd be like, okay, we're going to do a financial review, come in and give us whatever excess that you have. And I'm like, oh, like, like, it felt like I was going nowhere. And then that's where it led up to two. 2013 where I'm listening to how to stop worrying and start living. I still have it on my audible. I mean, I haven't listened to it since then.

But, and I decided, you know what, I'm going to just go out. I'm going to just hit, I'm going to knock doors. I'm going to just go out. I know there's areas. I know this pocket here of properties. There's a lot of fix and flippers that love this area. It's still really popular. So I'm going to just go see if I can find some opportunities and hope that if I bring

it to an investor, they'll give me a 3% commission. And that's what I started doing. And that's how I found my first deal was I knocked on a house and Margie answered. And she was a care. She didn't want to sell her house, but Carol, the gal down the street, she was a caretaker for it. It was a vacant property. And they lived in New York and it was filled with stuff. And they didn't know what they wanted to do. and she gave me a name. She goes, let me call her and get the permission for her to call you or for you to call her.

And I said, okay, she gave me a name, address, and phone number. I put that deal together and earn the commission on that. And I realized at that moment, if you give me a name, address, and phone number of somebody that owns an ugly house

or is in an ugly situation, I can get myself out of this thing. I could do anything. I could really build a successful business. This business and whole, wholesaling and having conversations with property owners that don't have their properties on the market, changed my life. I mean, absolutely changed my life. Now we've done, you know, almost $10 million in income from that, a lot of which I've kept because I didn't build a huge team again. I kept

it really small. Yeah, you went to jet ski model there. Yeah. But a powerful jet ski, it sounds like. So once you got exposed to wholesaling and you saw what the profit margins look like and like sort of how you could do this without all of the baggage that comes from running in traditional brokerage. What were your next steps for picking up steam and building momentum in that business? So I realized that door knocking in Phoenix was great for my tan and for my waistline, but I was melting out there. Like it was really hot. Like door knocking in August in Arizona is brutal.

And I was like, I need to find air conditioning. like I need to be able to get the phone numbers and the brokerage that I had joined after Remax had skip tracing. They had this account called Lexus Nexus. And so we could just put in addresses and they'd give us the phone numbers and then we'd just call them up. And so I would just drive around town and find the ugliest properties and write down their address. I would just write them down on a pad of paper and a pen and I'd go back and I'd, I'd, pull their phone number and I just call them and fumble and stumble in the beginning and then kind of figured out a good script that was effective to make people not too afraid to talk to a

stranger. And that's what really led to the success because it didn't cost me anything. No, man, I think that's phenomenal because I literally have this same conversation with people about all of real estate is that what you learned is that this isn't a real estate business. It is a people business. It wasn't that you were going out and you were finding houses. You were going out and you were finding situations that were attached to houses and then figuring out how to solve those problems. But what's super cool is that like you didn't have this formal training. You didn't have some, you know, grand plan laid out.

You just went and knocked on doors and talked to people. and that seems extremely intimidating for a lot of people for a lot of reasons. So what gave you the confidence to just go knock on a door and have those conversations? And then talk to us a little bit about some of the myths that you've discovered about knocking on a door and having a conversation about this and like how you overcome. Because you said you developed a script, but I'm sure you developed that script because you knocked on a lot of doors and talked to a lot of people. So kind of what did that process look like of you going from knocking on a door and fumbling a conversation to developing a script and understanding how to have these conversations with people? Yeah, I love it. I literally, they say rock bottom is incredible because it's a strong foundation.

I mean, it truly is. What I learned is there's only a certain amount of distressed property owners in a market, right? And I talked to Steve Trang about this and I've looked at some of the census. And it says six to 10 percent of the real estate market is in distress at all times. So I just focused, I didn't focus on the 94%, 94%. I focused on the 6% that were either in distress because of the condition of the property, emotional or financial distress, right? Those are the three kind of buckets.

And so in the beginning, I just looked for ugly houses, like just basic, just not even thinking, just looked for ugly houses. And eventually they have to sell to somebody, right? They're just not financeable for the most part. because they're just in rough condition. So they need to take a cash as is offer. And so what I learned first was really laser focus on properties that are in distress. Okay, that was number one because you can waste a lot of time trying to convince somebody

that has a beautiful house to sell their property at a discount. It is a waste of time. You're never going to convince anybody to do anything. And you're going to go through a lot of heartache having. conversations that don't really go anywhere because people should sell them retail. So that's not what I'm talking about. So you have to filter that down. The second thing that I found out was you have to, so they're on in a distress situation,

they're on hell island and they want to get to Heaven Island and there's certain bridges to cross to be able to get there. And I had to go through all those bridges and break down those bridges before it came to my offer. okay so why don't why don't you list this property well i hate realtors and i'm embarrassed and my dogs will bite them and things will happen and i i don't want to list my property right okay well why don't you rent it out well i don't want i don't like tenants why don't you fix it up yourself i don't have money why doesn't why doesn't the family like use this as a family rental well all the family

hates each other and we don't want to do it so you go through all these different bridges that would cross them over to to getting rid of this distress until you get to that you know know, cash as is offer that we offer as a wholesale offer. I love that because what you're doing essentially when you're having those types of conversations, it's not just that you're showing them that your option is a good option for them, but you're building trust along the way because every option you're showing them actually involves somebody other than you making money in that transaction. Would you say that part of your ability to be able to build trust with the sellers and

distressed situations had anything to do with the fact that you may have gone through some distressed situations back when you had the repossessions and a lot of the issues you were having 100%. And listen, if there's a better option for them, I want them to go with that better option, because they're going to do it anyway, right? I mean, they're going to, somebody's going to talk to them, they're going to talk to a friend or an attorney or an agent or somebody that's going to give them a better option to make more. That's, you know what I mean? So yes, it is because I I went through that and I understand can have empathy from a from a real life, you know, real experience.

But they're going, there's no trickery in this business. You know what I mean? Like it has to be the best option for them or they're going to cancel the deal or they're just not going to sign the, the deed to transfer title to somebody. So when I look at it and what I, what I discovered is sellers get there's three, three things, right? There's speed, convenience, and price. And the sellers only get.

to get to pick two of them. Okay. So if they want speed and convenience, then they have to come down on that price because that's how you do it. That's how you don't do inspections and don't do appraisals and buy it as is and there's not any repairs. So when we're talking to when we're talking to people, talking to these property owners, we go, okay, listen, do you want to trade potential equity in this property for speed and convenience? If not, go list the property. Go list it. Go rent it out again. go do whatever other, whatever else you want. And it shocks people that people go, no, nobody would ever do that. It happens every single second of every minute of every hour of every day in the real estate

business. Is somebody is trading equity, potential equity for speed and convenience? You know, that is a brilliant strategy when talking to the seller. And I know a lot of people would be afraid to bring it up because their thoughts would be, well, I don't want to tempt them with the idea that they could take this to a real estate agent because then they're going to. The realities, they know that that's an option. There's this unspoken battle going on when there's a negotiation. There's always unspoken things. Now, what the person with the property is thinking is, I want all three. I want speed. I want convenience and I want price.

And they're trying to navigate this relationship with you or whoever the person is they're negotiating with into getting all three things. And they're naive. It's not going to happen, right? You understand, well, there's three things here. And this is, this like rule of three, whatever that is, it comes up all the time. It's like that with contractors. It's like that with so big. It's like with lenders, right? Is this something that you learn from someone else? Or is this something that just, you know, thousands of repetitions of these conversations led you to realizing this is the way to get to the conclusion? You know, I, every conversation that, first of all, it was, I learned that from Todd Tobac and Tom Crowell. And they're fantastic. I mean, they, when they told me that it like totally

made sense. So it's not original at all. But, you know, from a scaffolding of any conversation with a property owner, if anybody's nervous because they haven't talked to a lot of them, and they just don't feel like they know the right questions to ask, it really comes down to pre-qualifying based on the four pillars, which is what's the condition of the property, what's their timeline to sell this property, what's the motivation and what price do they want? So the more that I can ask questions around those four things and pull those out of this property owner, the more qualified lead I have. And the more qualified lead I have, the more that I can focus on these people that actually have potential of doing business with me. And if they don't have potential of doing business with me, I get rid of them.

I move on with my life. But because you talk to so many people out there when you're being proactive, you get all of these unbelievable people that filter through. And those are the deals that you actually do. So I think a lot of people just hold on to leads too much because they're like, oh, it's a lead. I love this lead. It's, I'm going to coddle it and I'm going to keep it here. And I'm not going to push them too hard. And I'm going to be really nice.

And I'm going to bring them, you know, sweets. And I'm going to, I'm going to stop by and I'm going to be, you know, I'm not going to, I'm not going to prequalify them too much. I'm just when they're ready, they'll tell me their price and we'll make a deal. And that never happens. You need to have a conversation of what is the. condition, timeline, motivation, price. And if you understand, and the timeline is the most important thing in that, because if they've made the decision that they're going to sell that property, that's who you really get in

front of. That's who you really dig in and find out what their situation is and how you can help solve that, solve whatever problem that they have. And then that keeps you really focused on the hottest leads that you have in your business. And that's how you consist, get the consistency. to close these deals and get really big deals. Awesome. So it sounds like you discovered wholesaling when you did a deal.

You realize that finding distress, talking to people is helping you find these deals. You found the people who were going to take the deals off of your hands, generate the income. And so like any good business at this point, it then becomes a question of scale, right? Repeatability. How do I find a way to repeat this and then really kind of get back to where you were prior to 08, which is right, building a business and a team around it? So you've absolutely done that. So talk to us about that transition. What's your business looked like today?

How did you go from where you were at this point and scale to where you are? And then talk to us a little bit about some of these numbers, right? What is it that this business is producing for you? and how is it different from your business in a way? I love it. So once I did that first deal, I'm going to dedicate my professional life to this. Honestly. And so from 9 to noon every single day, I would just call homeowners, 9 to noon every

single day and try to have as many conversations as possible and find as many opportunities as possible. And then that led to doing a bunch of deals, which actually I was able to have a healthy bank account. and then I was able to actually bigger pockets was a huge part of this because there was a bigger pockets meetup group at at David Busters at Tempe Marketplace that I went to. And I invited everybody to come to a super Saturday because I was tired of people just kind of being around and just kind of get in theory and stay in an education mode. I was like, guys, I want to invite everybody to my office to make calls with me on Saturday morning and we'll just have a great time. And that led to me hiring my first acquisition manager, Billy Bell, because he was doing a part-time and he came in.

And his like third call, he got like a $12,000 deal. And I was like, okay, this is going to be. And by the way, that is not common. It takes a while. It's, you got to, that's just a timing thing there. But he was able to get it. And so I started building my business. The best return on investment that I had was making calls and hiring really great callers to make calls when I could

afford really great callers and then that really sped up the process of growing the business and now the highest we did 1.7 million was the highest that we've done and that was with four people and that was with a operator a lead manager Jackie she's phenomenal two acquisition managers Ryan and Chad they're absolute savages and and Jeremy who is my disposition manager and now I work like two hours in the business a week. Okay, so I'm trying to zoom out here in my mental brain and get the, and get the timeline, right? So prior to 08, rock star, doing it big, brokerage, 80 people. 08, down to nothing, right? Downhill. Five years past, 2013, you're in the car, listening to self-health books, boom, epiphany, talk to people. You go start talking to people. You do your first deal, 2013.

Where is it from 2013 to where you're hiring these first couple employees? What year is that? Where you're having your meetings. Yeah, 2016 was the big year. So you did, you just did deals on your own for three deals for three years, knocking it out of the park and then said, all right, time to scale this thing. So if you were to give us a rundown of how many properties you have, how much they're making in a year, what your net worth has grown to?

What would you say? So I have a different strategy, right? I buy my property's cash because I foreclosed on them. So I've got two rental properties, and this is not going to sound amazing, but I've got two rental properties. I've got an amazing office commercial space here in Phoenix. I've got a cabin in the woods and Flagstaff. I've got my house. I invested 260,000 into ATM machines, which is a really interesting tax-saving strategy, not like I'm going out putting ATM machines.

It's a fund. you guys had and interviewed Andrew Abernathy who builds Class A storage. I'm an investor in that. Invello is a partner with bigger pockets and incredible technology that I'm an investor in that. And I've got my coaching and training businesses and all that, not to make it a pitch. But I'm at like $8 million in net worth at this point. I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. It makes perfect sense to me because you.

experience the bitter taste of owning a bunch of rental properties, watching how quickly that gets turned upside down and sinks and recognizing, I love real estate, I don't necessarily love the exposure and the mortgages at this side. And you just decided for you, it's kind of like food poisoning. You don't just stop eating food, but you stop eating that food. You don't want to get involved in that. You don't want to eat oysters anymore after you have some bad oysters. So you're like, I'm just going to get into chicken and into steak. And so now you're investing in other people's companies. You're letting them take on the headache of that. You're taking all the knowledge that you've accumulated and your business sense and your love of real estate and you're

just making money through it. And then not to mention, how well is your wholesaling business doing? Well, that's it. I mean, guys, I work two to three hours in the business and that's mostly on team meetings on Friday. And I get 40 to 60,000 depending on the month in the season and the year passively, essentially. And so I think it's just a different way to look at this industry and a different way to to understand that you don't have to, you could build a real business that goes out there and solves the problems of distressed property owners

and brings investment into some of these areas and streets. You know, Henry, Henry had a conversation the other day about the feels, the feel good about solving somebody's problem. The other feel good is, the six Ss that are increased with property taxes when you bring investors, onto a street or into a community, right?

You're talking streets and safety and, what is it, sanitation, school, services, and spaces. It's wildly rewarding. It is wildly rewarding. Did you know you can go on vacation and actually earn money? Because while you're out exploring new horizons, your home is sitting there, dark, silent, and wildly underemployed. And it could be making you extra cash. And Airbnb makes that possible with something called the co-host network.

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You can relax knowing guests are taking care of and your place is in good hands. So instead of your home just existing in the dark, it can be quietly earning its keep while you're off making memories somewhere else. You travel, your house works, everyone's happy. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. There are two kinds of real estate investors, those who have reviewed their insurance, and those who think that they have.

Most don't realize their coverage wasn't built for how they actually invest. Vacancy periods, rehabs, short-term rentals, or LLC-held properties. These gaps surface only when filing claims. That's why investors work with NREG. They specialize exclusively in real estate investors. understanding portfolios, risk at scale, and cash flow protection. One claim can erase years of returns. If you own a rental property, don't assume you're covered.

Have NREG review your insurance with someone who gets investing at NREG.com slash BPPod. That's NRIIG.com slash BP Pod. There are two kinds of real estate investors, those who have reviewed their insurance, and those who think that they have. Most don't realize their coverage wasn't built for how they actually invest. Vacancy periods, rehabs, short-term rentals, or LLC-held properties. These gaps surface only when filing claims. That's why investors work with NREG.

They specialize exclusively in real estate investors, understanding portfolios, risk at scale, and cash flow protection. One claim can erase years of returns. If you own a rental property, don't assume you're covered. Have NREG review your insurance with someone who gets investing at NRE.com slash BP pod. That's N-R-E-I-G.com slash B-P pod. The problem as I see it is there's too many people that are operating off of a blueprint that was sold 10 years ago. Okay, buy four duplexes and retire and live on the beach and have your best life because you worked hard for a year and a half. And they're trying to squeeze that round peg into the square hole of what we have right now and they're getting frustrated and it spills over into the comments where they're pissed off or discouragement or it turns into shame.

Like that person could do it, but I couldn't do it. I'm just not good enough. And there's this host of negative emotions that's associated with a strategy that worked when no one knew about real estate. there wasn't a lot of podcasts. There weren't books being written. If you didn't know the old man talented owned all the deals, it was going to show you the way. You just thought real estate investing was impossible. Like, when everyone in the world thought that every loan was 20% down, those strategies worked. The cat's out of the bag. It is complicated now. And I'm constantly telling people, it doesn't have to be work a job you hate or buy enough properties to have

passive income to retire. There is a spectrum of options in the middle. And Brent, you have highlighted very clearly how you can combine a little bit of business, a little bit of talking, a little bit of a service-based approach, a little bit of commitment, and a little bit of real estate together. I just love that you're giving an example of how you can make it work for you. Henry, you have anything you want to say about that? No, absolutely, man. I think that there are a million ways to make a million dollars and even more so within real estate, right?

And what I love that you've highlighted Brent is that it's not just about how it's not just about making the money, right? but it's about how you protect yourself. And so I appreciate that you're sharing a story that may not be as traditional in the real estate space, but as far as business and learning and being, I'm sorry, and being proactive with how you build a business. I think that you've given us some phenomenal information. Thank you. Can I say some controversial? I think there should, you should have a license.

to buy rental properties. And to get that license, you have to talk to a thousand property owners. One, you'll be able to find unbelievable deals. Unbelievable deals, no doubt about it. But two, you're going to understand what strategy is going to work for you. How are you going to be able to look at all of the different situations that these people are gone through because you've had conversations with them and know what to avoid in your specific marketplace?

And I think if you do that, it's going to save you a ton of, the, you know, I had it all and lost at all stories. You know what I mean? Because if it can be avoided, I really hope that it is. But I think that you should, you should talk to a thousand people before you buy a rental property. And I think that you should consider wholesaling a property before you do a fix and flip for sure. All right. That's fantastic. We're going to move on to the next event of our show. And this is a unique segment. We're going to call this don't let the deal die. In this segment, Brent and I are going to role play. I am. going to be a seller here and Brett is going to try to talk with me to get this deal across the

line. In this example, I'm going to be someone who wants to move out of state and I have to sell my primary residence and it's going to be Brent's job to figure out my motivation and my pain point and keep this deal alive. So I guess Brett, we can start it off with you doing the typical ring ring. Yep, ring ring. Hello. Hi, I'm looking for David. This is David. Can I ask who's calling? Yeah, hi, David. My name is Brent Daniels. I know that this is completely random, but I was actually calling about a property that I believe you own on 1212 Banana Street. Oh. Yeah. How did you, how did you know, how did you know that I own that? Yeah, it's, you know, I'm looking to buy a property in that area. So I just put it into, uh, on, on the internet and it came back with

your name and number and sometimes I get lucky and I'm able to talk to you. Oh, that's interesting. Have you thought about selling that property? I don't know how you heard, but I actually have been thinking about selling as a matter of fact. It's so crazy that you called. That's amazing. And, And just to let you know, the way that we purchase properties is we buy them completely cash. Okay. It's as is. So you don't have to put another dime into the property. There's no real estate agents, any costs there.

We pay the title and escrow fees. So it's just a clean net offer to you. So for an offer like that, did you have a price in mind? Well, you know, I've been looking on Zillow and I've been kind of thinking about talking to a real estate agent also. I don't want to give it away. but at the same time, you know, I don't really, I need to get it sold. Like, I want to leave. This property has been kind of hanging over my head.

You know Banana Street. It's kind of hit or miss. I'm not really sure. What do you think it's worth? You know, the condition plays a huge role, and I want to make sure that I can give you as much for your property as possible. So can you tell me, have you done any remodeling to your kitchen and bathrooms in the last five years? Well, I have a pretty extensive sense of taste.

I've got a large collection of roosters that I keep. throughout the kitchen. Some are on the fridge. Some are on the countertops. I'm not sure if I'm going to include those in the sale yet. It kind of depends on if I want to carry them with me or not. And then also, like, my fridge has been decorated with different magnets I've accumulated throughout the years.

But, I mean, other than that, if I'm just being honest with you, Brent, you seem like an honest guy. It hasn't been remodeled since we, since we bought it. But it's got that classic feel to it. Sure. And I'm looking at this. It looks like it was built in 1974. It's about 1,500 square feet.

right? Yeah, that's right. My wife and I frequently talked about making some additions. We were going to add on to it. We never actually did that. So it's in its original state. Any any issues mechanically? Like everything's working fine. Any issues that I would need to know plumbing, electrical roof furnace? David, tell about the air conditioner. You never let me put the air conditioner below 60. Henry, like, give me a minute, okay? Like we're talking business over here. Well, hello, Mrs. David. How are you? Oh, I'm fine. I'm just listening in. Well, that's great. I'm glad that I have both of you guys on the line. I'm going to give you the best cash offer that I can for your property because I really want to invest in your neighborhood. Can you, you know, typically we can close these deals, just to kind of give you an idea of timeline. We can close these deals in two weeks to 30 days.

Do you think that that'll be enough for you guys to be able to, you know, pack everything up and move? Wow, two weeks to 30. That sounds really fast. I mean, we were expecting it to take about 90 days or so on the market. And, you know, HUD, I think that, you know, we had wanted to go look at houses out of state, but we were going to sell this one first. What do you think, Brad, do you think it's better to sell your house first or do you think it's better to start looking for the next one? You know, it's always great to have a plan on where you're going to go next so that, you know, You know, you're really comfortable with the decision that you make and the timing in which

you make that decision. So I think that's a great idea. If you were to sell this, where are you going to move to next? Well, we're in Phoenix right now, but it gets really hot in the summertime. And as you heard, I don't like my wife touching the thermostat. It's causing some problems in our marriage. We're fighting about it all the time. The grandkids come over and they're sweating inside the house.

I think it's good for him because it builds character, but my wife won't get off my back about it. We really need to move somewhere where air conditioning's not. that needed. So we're thinking about Fargo, probably. We think our money's going to go a little bit further there is kind of what we had in mind. Did you want to just write us an offer and we'll kind of talk about it and see what we think? You can buy a mansion in Fargo. That's going to be really exciting. I mean, it's a big change, but that's really, really, really exciting. Yeah, I absolutely can put together an offer. I just need to know kind of where you guys are at in price. Well, Zillow has it at about 350,000. So we were thinking about listing it maybe like,

345. We've heard that the market's turning around. I heard some talk about interest rates being up, so we don't want to be greedy. But I was kind of thinking about listening at 345 and then seeing where it goes. But if you make me an offer, I might take a little bit less. Sure. That's fantastic. I'm just, I'm on my computer right now. I'm looking at properties in your area in similar condition that are similar size. And they're actually going for around 220,000. Is that something that you would consider? Oh, I don't. I don't think I realized that. That's a little bit to stomach here.

Let's see. Well, the stuff in Fargo is only about 150,000. So I suppose that's not really the end of the world. Well, what are you going to want me to do to the house? Or you don't want us to upgrade it? Do you need me to fix that jiggly handle in the toilet that we told you about? That's the best part, David. We take it completely as is.

I've got my crews ready. They're going to come in and they're going to make that house look absolutely incredible. and just update. I'm sure it already looks incredible, but just update and put, you know, put it up to 2,023 standards. But if we can be around 220,000, that would be a net offer in your pocket.

There's nothing coming out of that. So I'm not going to come back to you and hit you with a bunch of inspection items. David, David, we could have 220,000 in two weeks? Well, hang on a second, hon. We've got to, well, let me ask you, are you pre-approved? Because I've been told to only deal

with pre-approved serious buyers. And that is really smart advice. But listen, you don't need pre-approval when you're buying it cash. This is cash in the bank ready to give it to you. I'm ready to give it to you as soon as you guys are ready to make the decision to when you want to close, when you want to get your money. So I think, you know, it sounds to me that you've got, you've got some plans and move. You've got to find a new place. You've got to pack up your stuff.

Why don't we set this for 30 days? We can close in 30 days at a price of 220,000. And then you guys can just be off to Fargo and enjoying that beautiful brisk weather. We were actually thinking about taking a trip out there pretty soon. Is there any chance that you might be able to close in 21 days? So if we find another property we like, we can use your money to buy it. Absolutely. Absolutely.

I'll tell you what. I am going to be in your neighborhood this afternoon at 3 o'clock. Why don't I come by and I can go over the agreement, make sure that you guys are comfortable with every part of the process. And we can move forward and we can open up escrow and get this done as smooth as possible. Okay, wait one second, Brent. Hun, can you make sure that you get the Lysol out and clean down the chickens and the roosters that are on the fridge? We're going to have company. Not my chickens.

Yeah, just get them in glistening. We want to make a good impression here. All right, Brett, I do think that that could work. If you could be here at 3 o'clock, we'll be happy to meet you. Excellent. So when I come out, is there anything that would prevent you guys from moving forward when I come out? If everything, the price and the terms and you guys like working with me, if everything is in line there, is there anything stopping you guys from moving forward today? Well, we don't want to make any repairs.

This is something we just want to be done with. As is. We want to move on. Yeah. So if we don't have to do anything and you can put $220,000 in our bank account in 21 days, I think this makes sense for us and it's probably a blessing. Fantastic. I am so excited to meet you, Mr. and Mrs. David.

This is going to be great. I'll see you at 3 o'clock. Okay. Thanks for calling. All right. See ya. Awesome, Brent. That was so much fun.

Thank you so much. And you know what? He's so good at this. I don't think people realized a lot of the intention behind the tone you had and the questions that you asked. One that stuck out to me as a really big deal was there is the question you you asked at the end, is there anything stopping you from getting this deal done, essentially, at the end? That's something I have not done a good job of doing. And as soon as you said it,

I was like, oh, that's a great idea. Right. So I love that you're, you're just, you were speaking with the end in mind. You were saying, I am, essentially you were saying, I am coming to get this deal signed. If there's anything that's going to stop this thing from getting it signed, let me know what that is now so that I can try to remove that roadblock up front, man. I thought that was a phenomenal, phenomenal question. What other, what other intentional questions do you kind of ask? And I'm obviously, obviously, you changed the words up for the situation, but it seemed like there were some very intentional questions you were asking. Well, first of all, thank you, David. Obviously, on most, on most role plays, people go really, really, really, really brutal. And it's like, in real life,

if somebody's going real brutal, I just move on, right? Like, if somebody's not going to do business with you, you move on. So that was really cool that we could, like, unfold this. but there's seven parts to the perfect haul. The first four we talked about already is condition, timeline, motivation, price. So that's what I was asking about, right? What was the condition? What remodeling have you done to your kitchen and bathrooms, anything mechanical? And I do that as number one because people are comfortable talking about their property

before their situation or their emotions, right? And what typically happens, and it happened in this conversation is once you get the timeline, the condition and the timeline, they usually, if you do it right, they give you the motivation. We want to move. We don't want to do anything. Fixing up things is a big issue for us. We don't want to do that. And then on the price, what I do is I look around and I don't give you the offer of 220,000. What I said was it looks like your neighbors in similar condition and similar size are selling for 220,000. okay and that's like the anchor that's saying well that's what other people are selling it for is that something that they would consider and at that point they're like no i would never sell for that

i need at least this price and then you could go on to different conversations there so we did the the condition timeline motivation price that's the first four the next three to really be great on the phone is confirm and approve everything oh roosters fantastic oh magnets yes uh-huh oh yes you know oh you want that price? Great. Fantastic. Don't cause friction in the conversation by telling them they're wrong. Okay. The other one is to actively listen. Uh-huh. And it was kind of tough to do here because we're on screen. But it's like, uh-huh. Yeah, sure. Oh, great. That's great. Uh-huh. Don't just be silent when you ask a question because it sounds like an interrogation instead of a conversation, right? And then the last one is whenever they ask a question, answer the question, and then ask a question. Just don't do that old 80

sales tactic where they're like, well, how much will you give me? Well, how much do you want? You know what I mean? Like, don't just answer a question with a question that's old school and people are really annoyed with that. So answer the question, ask a question. So that's really the seven steps is the four prequel, confirm and approve, active listening, and answer a question and ask a question. Another thing that you did well that I think is something to be highlighted is when I chimed in as the wife, you immediately stopped and acknowledged that the wife was there. A lot of the times people just want to talk to the decision maker, right? They just want to talk to whoever answered the phone. They don't acknowledge somebody else.

But you taking the time to show the respect to acknowledge the seller's wife and say, hey, I hear you. and I also want to consider your thoughts, opinions, and feelings, which is essentially what you're doing by doing that also helps you build that trust, and that trust helps you get deals done. That's a very good point. Many times as a real estate agent, I've sold one party in the marriage that I've been talking to and thought I had a deal. And then the other one wasn't acknowledged or didn't get their objections handled or didn't feel like they were included.

And they get in the ear of their spouse and they blow it up. And I've learned that lesson that you always have to figure out who are the other decision makers there. And I think Brent, you were getting at that when you're like, let me come to the house and meet you, both of you, build rapport with both of you. So I don't end up with one person who's sort of an undercover saboteur. That does happen in these deals a lot of the time. Yeah, and you get advanced agreements before you go on the appointment. So you can pull, I would rather know what I'm up against before I go out there than getting surprised. You know, if they've already like confirmed that they want this and they don't want to make repairs and they want to move

quick and they want to, you know, then it's, that's the perfect match. And you go and you get that deal. All right. Well, Brent, thank you very much. That was fun. Thanks for showing us what it looks like in action as well as sharing the story. It's a fantastic story. I loved hearing it. For people that want to find out more about you, where can they go? Yeah. My YouTube channel is just Brent Daniels. You can definitely check that out. We put a lot of time and attention and love into that. And wholesalinging. dot com. Wholesailingink.com. We have a ton of downloads and incredible things that you can get there. And yeah, those are the two best ways. Awesome. How about you, Henry? Yeah, as always, man, best place to reach me is Instagram. I'm at the Henry Washington on Instagram.

There you go. I'm on Instagram as well. And everywhere else on social media at David Green 24. You can find me on YouTube as well at YouTube.com slash at David Green 24. Brent, thanks again for being here. This is fantastic. I highly encourage everybody to go learn more about sales, real estate, business and psychology by following Brent. Brent, we'll have to have you on again in the future. Thanks again, man. It's an honor. Thank you guys. This is David Green for Henry Maboo, Washington. Signing on. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of

the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K. Copywriting is by Calico content, and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included involves risk. So use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. Bigger Pocket's LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential, or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented

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