BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 75: Mobile Home Investing and Getting Started With John Fedro

Episode Date: June 19, 2014

Today on the BiggerPockets Podcast we are excited to welcome a guest who specializes in an aspect of real estate that no other guest has covered before! John Fedro is a mobile homes investor out of the Austin Texas area who introduces us to all the incredible opportunities that one can experience in the mobile home arena. If you’re someone asking yourself, “What type of real estate investing should I do?” Than this show is for you! Throughout the show John gives incredible advice and insight that can be applied to any aspect of real estate. This is a perfect show for people looking to get started, regardless if you like mobile homes or not! This is one of the most actionable shows we’ve had so without further adieu, let’s jump into it! In This Show, We Cover: How to find deals no one else is looking for The in’s and out’s of mobile home investing What do you do when you look 15 yrs old and want to invest in real estate? Why mistakes are ESSENTIAL to your success in real estate John’s Creative finance on steroids! The importance of adding value and caring about motivated sellers Using Leverage to crush it when getting started How to Forget what people say and take action! How to screen incoming lead-calls  and much, much more! Links Mentioned 1 Trick for Being a LOUD and Proud Real Estate Investor One Small Simple Step To Growing Your Network and Increasing Your Influence The Top 100 Ways To Make Money In Real Estate Books Mentioned in the Show How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie Tweetable Topics “We can’t tell where lighting is going to strike but we can have several lighting rods in different locations.” (Tweet This!) “When starting out in real estate investing aim for the path of least resistance. ” (Tweet This!) Connect with John John’s BiggerPockets Profile John’s  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 75. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. What's going on, everybody? This is Josh Dork. to the Bigger Pockets podcast here with my fabulous co-host, Mr. Brandon Turner.

Something wrong with me. Something wrong with you? There's a lot of things wrong with you. The whole host, host thing. Yeah, yeah, you and your pronunciations or, you know. Enunciations. Is that what the word is? That is the word, yeah. Whatever.

Well, today is number 75. It's a good episode. It is. We're excited. There's lots of goodies to come ahead. And we're certainly pumped about it. How's your summer going so far, Brandon? Summer?

Yeah. You forget, I live in Washington. Summer doesn't start until like August 3rd and ends like August 5th. All right. But, everybody, let's put out big. Oh. Yeah. No, it's been good.

It's been good. We didn't get a little sunshine. But today for those Hunger Game fans out there, today is the quarter quell of the Bigger Pockets podcast. So I know we got a lot of those teeny bopper hunger games fans. Nice. Nice. Yeah, well, we're very excited. And today we've got, as we said, we've got a great show before we jump into that. Let's get to today's quick tip. All right, today's quick tip is we have an events and happenings forum on Bigger Pockets. And for those of you guys who are looking for alternatives to real estate clubs that might already exist in your area or might want to learn about real estate clubs in your area or any other kinds of events that are happening, check out the events and happenings forum. We'll put a lot.

the link in the show notes of biggerpockets.com slash show 75. There you could find out about local meetups, about any other kind of programming that's happening local to you. And if there isn't anything that's cool that's happening and everything in your area is an upsell, a pitch fest, or whatever, and you just want to kind of do your own thing, you can use that to plan your own event as well and let folks know to come out and join you.

So check out the events and happenings forum on Bigger Pockets. Quick tip. There it is. There it is. All right. So on today's show, we've got a real estate investor from the Austin, Texas area, Mr. John Fedro. John has built a pretty cool niche in the real estate world focusing 100% on buying, renting, and reselling mobile homes and soon mobile home communities. He's built a pretty good business and life for himself. And John's going to go into some pretty cool details in the field of mobile homes. Now, that's said, don't just click off here, guys, because we're going to talk about a whole lot more. We're not only going to talk about mobiles. The second half of the show, we really go into depth on a lot of cool things that any real estate investor can learn from. So if you're sitting there thinking, oh, this is just about mobile homes. What do I care? You still want to pay attention because John's doing a lot of great things and has some seriously good insight into how to build

a successful real estate business regardless of the niche that you're in. and I should pay attention. Yeah, pretty much everything he talks about today can be applied to whether you're doing mobile homes or whether you're doing wholesaling, flipping rentals. I mean, mobile homes kind of touch on all those things. So, yeah, definitely, definitely check out the show. I think you guys will like it a lot. Awesome.

Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle, active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress? Here's a better question. What if you could buy brand-new construction homes, 10% below market value? in the best markets across the country without making real estate your second job. That's exactly what rent to retirement does. They're a full service, turnkey investment company, handling everything for you.

In some cases, investors get 50 to 75% of their down payment back at closing, plus interest rates as low as 3.75%. They've partnered with BiggerPockets for over a decade, helping thousands invest smarter. If you want to do the same, visit BiggerPockets.com slash retirement to learn more. Most investors spend all their time talking about their high-level returns. But that's not the number that actually matters. What actually matters is what you keep after taxes,

and that's where multifamily real estate quietly stands out. With built-in advantages like depreciation, the right deals can generate steady cash flow while reducing the tax drag. Bam Capital structures its multifamily investments around those fundamentals, pairing tax efficiency with disciplined operators and a long-term approach. This isn't about chasing hype or guessing market timing. It's about building durable, tax-aware wealth over time.

Learn more at biggerpockets.com slash bam. Okay, we're going to shift gears for a minute to cover something important, especially for new landlords. The shows often talk about getting stuck doing everything ourselves and the cost of sweat equity. The key question is simple. Is my time better spent elsewhere? I use a tool that cuts down on a lot of landlord hassles.

And the wild part is, it's just $12 a month. It handles rental screenings, rent collection, maintenance requests and accounting, all in one platform via a mobile app or desktop. It saves me time in tenant communication and keeps me organized for tax season. It's called Rent Ready, and you can sign up for a six-month plan for just $1 with promo code BP 2025. Pro users get it for free because we believe in it. Just sign in through your pro account to get started. RentReady helps ensure on-time rent with auto reminders, keeps communication professional,

and lets you post listings to multiple sites. Check it out at rentready.com slash bigger pockets. That's rent, R-E-D-I-com slash bigger pockets. Well, with that, why don't we jump in really quickly if you haven't already left us any kind of feedback, ratings, reviews, or things like that on iTunes,

we definitely appreciate all that feedback that helps us out, helps us to get the show out. And once again, if you want more information about anything that we talk about or if you just want to ask questions to John about the show, biggerpockets.com slash show 75. With that, why don't we bring them on? And by the way, there's going to be some tension, guys.

You'll find out in a second. You'll find out in a second. John Fedra, welcome to the show, man. Good to have you. Hey, glad to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me. Awesome. We're glad to have you.

Excellent. Well, yeah, actually, now that you bring it up, this was the second time, wasn't it? This was the, you know, my schedule is so here and there. I apologize. How long ago was that? over a year. That was like a year ago. I've been holding on to it a little bit. Yeah. Because bigger pockets, they keep,

they keep emailing you and hounding you. Get John Fedro on this podcast. Not quite. Is that not? It's not really what's what's happening. When do we have a low? We can throw John Pedro in. Anyway,

so John was going to do a show last year and it kind of fell apart. And, you know, I'm not going to place the blame on anybody. But John, but, you know, It was John's fault. So now that he's here, I won't give him any grief about it. Except for the five other times. We can edit this, right? So it doesn't look.

This is all staying, dude. All right, man. So welcome to the show. I'm giving you grief. But for those of you don't know, John actually, was, John's was a longtime contributor of Bigger Pockets on the blog. He'd been writing for us years and years and years ago. he was also a speaker at the Bigger Pocket Summit that we had a couple years ago.

And John knows his stuff. And we're definitely excited to have him on the show finally. So let's kick this thing off for those people who don't know you, John Fedro. How'd you get into this real estate game? So convincing. Thank you for the introduction. Yeah, you'd be happy to do it, man. Are you coming over a cold?

What's going on? It was almost stuff. 13 years ago, and the short version is I knew that I didn't want to work for someone else. It was doing just one half-ass job after the other. It wasn't a very good employee and knew that there was something better for me. It was in a few, two multi-level marketing businesses that never went anywhere. Picked up my roommates. He had a late-night infomercial type of book that was on his bookshelf.

I picked up that. I read through it two times in one weekend and thought, you know, I can do this. I had no idea what they were talking about. I didn't even know what a deed was to a home, but I knew I could do it. I wanted to at least give it a try. I believed in myself. And that was the starting point. That was the catalyst to get to get me out there, start taking action.

And yeah, I guess that's the tipping point of when I got into this business. When I even learned that real estate was a business. So, yeah, well, you read this book. And then, I mean, what came first? What was your first action step? I mean, did you immediately go out and buy a property or did you do some research? I mean, what happened next? Great, yeah.

So I was 19 or 20 at the time. I think we're just about turning 20. I looked 15. I had very little money. A couple thousand dollars. Thank you, sir. I know. When I go into the, get liquor or beer and they don't card me anymore, I really get upset about that.

Yeah. They, I had very little experience, very little capital, very little training, had this book, went out, did everything that the book said to do. I knocked on doors. I wrote letters. I put out signs. I did everything that they told me to do. I went through my $3,000 life savings very quickly at the time, had nothing to show for it.

Went to meetings, went to groups, just through no fault of effort being out there every single day. could not, either could not find a deal or could not put a deal together. Back then, when you are very green, it's kind of tough to tell what the problem is. Long story short, I didn't do, I was looking for the same deals that everyone else was looking for. I certainly didn't want to invest in manufactured housing or mobile homes. I had never lived in one myself. So two months after I got started with nothing to show for it, I mean, out there daily, again, knocking on doors, being very outside my comfort zone, I'm stretching myself, making offers.

I could not get a deal. My first deal, first and second deal happened simultaneously almost. One was for a mobile home inside of a park. The other one was for a mobile home attached to private land. And they both happened, like I said, around the same time very, very quickly. So you talked about they were both mobile homes. Maybe we can step back before we get into the actual deals. Why did all of a sudden that occur to you?

Why did you think, I mean, mobile homes are not something that most investors jump to. I mean, my parents told me from the time I was born, you know, never buy a mobile home. It goes down in value and never go up in value. And that's just like the lesson that was ingrained in me. So why did that even occur to you that I should go and buy a mobile home? It didn't. In fact, I was so green that I didn't know to ask if this was a mobile home or not. I should have been...

The wheels didn't give it away, right? Something's different here. Well, the seller at the time, this was for one in a park, she was only asking. asking $8,000 for it. And at the time, obviously, that was a super deal for a traditional home. So I immediately got off my chair. I went out to see it. And I started getting closer to the property. And I turned inside of a mobile home park. And that's when I realized, oh, this is a mobile home. So still having no idea what I was doing, being very scared, very young. I was thinking, how the heck am I going to help this seller? This is an adult that is, you know, she's in a

situation where she needs to sell, I don't know what the heck I'm doing. And to go into sort of the first and second deal, I was driving to this park. I was about 30 seconds. I was inside the park. I was about 30 seconds away from this mobile home. And just this overwhelming wave of nausea came over me. What the hell am I doing? I don't know what I'm doing here. I'm so young. How am I going to help this person? I didn't look good. My car was beat up at the time. So just this wave of nausea came over me. And I had to pull over about 30 seconds from the home. And I got sick. right on the side of the road. And at that moment, I was thinking, what the hell do I do? Do I go home with my tail between my legs? Do I continue to help the seller? I know that she's somewhat motivated.

She sounds like she needs help. She's a good person. What do I do? So I went there, breath, probably not smelling the best and just like I was. And that was a great deal. I ended up purchasing that deal a short time later. I can go over the numbers or not, but it was wonderful. Why don't you jump in on that? So it was $8,000 was what she was asking, correct? Correct. So she was asking $8,000. She started at over 20 at the time, but I had found her when she was asking about $8,000. I talked to her with some negotiation, talked her down to $3,000. And that's payable at because remember at this point, I used up my $3,000 life savings that I had from working part-time jobs here and there. But I had used up my full-time life savings to market to single-family homes, barely had any. money. So the deal that I had to structure with her was $3,000 payable as $300 a month for 10 months.

So I gave her $300 that day. Now, what she needed the money for, she didn't really need the money to actually move and leave. So that was fine with her. She took the money and she left and I was able to then sell the home for a substantial profit that I can talk about or not. Yeah, yeah, no, very cool. Okay, so let me ask you, you're green. You've seen this property. It was listed. at $20,000, how on earth did you talk her down to $3,000? I mean, that seems like a masterful move right there and you're pretty green. So how did that happen? How'd that go about? Great question. This is almost akin to having too much money or having too much credit at your disposal and then making a bad deal. When you have money, you're just going to throw money at a deal.

I didn't have money. I didn't have credit at the time. So the deal that I could put together, and granted, I wanted to get the deal for as inexpensive as I could. Obviously, she's not going to do anything if it doesn't make financial sense to her and vice versa. But ultimately, that's what I could do. That's what I could afford. And thank goodness that I did, because the mobile home is worth what it is, depending on how you sell it for cash, if you sell it for payments, if you just rent it out. But how I talked her down from, let's say, $8,000, which is what she was asking at the time,

down to that $3,000 mark. it wasn't a masterful negotiation. It was talking with her and making her understand how I could help her other options that she had, what I was willing to do, what I wasn't willing to do. The home needed a couple hundred dollars in plumbing work. But literally that was it. It's a beautiful four bedroom two bath with a big deck, central heat and air, all appliances included. It was gorgeous. And I'm so glad that I did make that deal. And maybe at that point, some part of it was luck or finding her because that, really set the bar for me to understand this is what's possible in this business. If I would have overpaid, which so many people have done, you know, green people have paid for mobile homes, then it would have taken me a year or more or more to get all my money back, in which case I might not still be in this business. So you helped her out of her situation. You gave her a deal.

You financed it over 10 months. And then you went out and sold it for substantially more after fixing this thing up. What did you end up selling it for? With very little fixing, I sold it the first time for $27,000 in change. That was with payments with, I think, about $3,500 as a move-in fee. Really quick, are you renting this out or are you sold, actually sold the property? Everything that I, almost everything that I do now is, and back in the day even, was selling. I would collect payments and I, but the home would be sold day, day number one. I'm not answering phone calls to do clogged toilet. I'm not maintenance.

They fix up their home. They own it. They're just paying me. You held the note. Okay. Correct. I want to dig into the numbers. Go over again, if you would, real quick.

You sold it for how much and how much were the payments and what did that look like when you actually turn on to sell it? Absolutely. So the first time I sold it was for 27. I think it was 275. And it was $3,500 as a move-in fee. And then monthly payments of $750 per month. That includes lot rent, which was, I think at the time, three, 30, which include water. So I was cash flowing $400 plus on that particular home. Plus, I had made all

my money back with the move-in fee from that buyer. Again, this is a good looking home. The second time I sold it. Now, for the first four or five years, I was ridiculously green. I barely pre-screened anybody. Basically, if you had money, if you had a pulse, I would let you into my property. ridiculous, just ludicrous. And I had 100%, everyone listening, 100% turnover rate. The people who I would sell homes to, go figure. That's not the 100% good turnover rate. That is the 100% bad turnover rate. If you never want to sell anything and want to keep getting your mobile homes or properties back, don't qualify people and put in risky people. So that was the first time I sold it. After a couple years they had called me, said that they had to bail. So they bailed. Second time I sold it for,

and the second time I can't remember, I'll go over my, look in my notes, but it was like $32,000. And then the third time I find, they only stayed for a few months. The third time I finally sold, it was the time that the people actually stayed in there for the full eight year term. And that was just under $30,000, $38,000 that I sold this home for. Again, with payments, not cash, not bank finance. You're not collecting anything up front? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I always receive a move-in fee for sure. Okay, so the moving fee is kind of the upfront. It's almost, it would be akin to the down payment on the home for a traditional house, yeah? Correct. And depending on the condition of the home, when I sell it, that's what I base my moving fee off of.

Okay, so because I know nothing about mobile homes. And I'm sure lots of other people are sitting here thinking the same thing, right? Why do we care? You know, what's the big deal? But, you know, these are a means to an end. And they're so. certainly if you know what you're doing, a profitable endeavor in real estate. But again, I just want to clarify, when I go and I buy a property, say traditional financing, because it's easy. I'll put 20% down to the bank and then I will make my monthly payments. In mobile homes, that 20% down, whatever percent your move-in fee is a moving fee, right? It's the same thing as the down payment is that, am I, am I? confusing that at all? That last sentence you said no, is very accurate. When we go to resell a home,

that is what I call a down payment as a move-in fee, correct? Gotcha. Gotcha, gotcha. Because you are acting as the bank, and so they put a down payment. You're carrying a mortgage. You write up a note with them. I'm assuming you go through that same process. Is it all the same as a regular house then? Great question. On land, very similar. Typically, I lease option for a year or two before I go ahead and switch over to owner financing. Again, and then in a park, no, it's different. With new laws that have come out earlier this year and for the past few years, we do not write a mortgage.

We are not the bank, but we do collect payments. So it's more of the terms of the sale than it is becoming a bank with regards to a mobile home in a park. On land, very similar to single family homes. Make sense? Yeah. Yeah, that does. Let me clarify on a park versus on land.

on land would be I own a lot and you own the mobile home itself that sits on my lot. And in mobile home park, the home sits on the park and you own the home in the park and are paying a lot rent to these guys to be able to keep it there. Is that right? That's certainly a type yes. Going back to your first example, when any mobile home on land or attached to land or on private land is going to be When I, the investor, talk to a seller, they own their land, they own the home. I want to buy both of those from them.

That's a mobile home on land. From there, I can do the exit strategy that you had just mentioned where I can rent the land but sell the home. But anyway, a mobile home on land, you're owning the land as well. In a park, you never own the land. Gotcha. So you are buying the land as well. Perfect. All right.

So let me dig in there a little bit. And I know, like, we can get into this probably later, but might as well do it now. So when you are buying in a park then, you talked about a couple of things. One, you mentioned the lease option. I want to touch on that for those people who don't know exactly what a lease option is. But let's talk about you said you don't, when you buy in a park, you don't usually actually buy. Is that correct? I mean, like, you're not acting as a bank.

So how does that actually structure now? When you're purchasing from a mobile home seller inside of a park, you're purchasing their home. You're never purchasing the land. If you do purchase that home on payments, then you would structure the deal accordingly, depending on what you work out with a seller. So, John, my understanding is it's kind of similar to financing an auto reveal. Is that right? I mean, it's more like that than it is when you're buying in a park than it is buying the home on land.

Is that fair? In what respect? Mobile homes in parks, in most states, are personal problems. property like a car? Yeah. So you'll do like a bill of sale then. Is that correct? In many states, you'll use a bill of sale. You'll use a title. I've gotten a chance to call around all 50 states in their manufactured housing division learning what paperwork they use, what they don't use, the procedure, licensing, etc., etc. So yeah, a bill of sale, very similar to a car. A title, very similar to a car is what you're going to find in many states, not all states. Yeah, and they're

pretty simple. Now, when you go into the the question that you had about structuring notes and structuring mortgages. Depending on the paperwork you're using, depending on how you're structuring those, again, we can get into Dodd-Frank and Safe, but it's going to be very specific. We'll leave that to the lawyers.

Yeah, we could talk for a few hours on how to do that correctly. Yeah. Well, so maybe we can step back a little bit and walk me through because, you know, I feel like I'm grasping, you know, 80% of how this all works. Yeah, so what I'm wondering is, How does a new begin, like a newbie who's just getting started, how do they even look at this whole mobile home thing?

I mean, what are they doing? They're going to go today. Are they going to go find a cheap mobile home in a park, put it under contract, pay them monthly payments and then sell it with monthly payments? Is that all they're doing? Or what can you kind of expand in a real basic beginner steps? What are we looking at? Sure. So if you're going to go out there and purchase a mobile home and mobile homes on land versus mobile homes and parks, they're two completely different animals.

But if you're starting out in this business, I want to, I want to. want to give you a 30,000 foot view, like clarity of your area, of your market. Every different market is different. We have to know how you're going to sell homes. You have to know what they can sell for monthly, what they can sell for with regards to your move-in fee, and you have to know how many buyers are out there. That's the first thing. Then having clarity, not just of one park that's next to your house or one park that's right down the street, but really understanding your entire market, what's for sale? Who's selling what? Is the park selling anything? Let me talk to every single seller. Let me talk to other investors. This doesn't take a long time about a week or so

to find, not just in your county, but the surrounding area and the surrounding counties, you have to know what is for sale. It's so easy to overpay for a mobile home. Every mobile home that I purchased, that I help folks that want to purchase mobile homes, we're always buying them for everything that we put out. We make our money back within the first six months to 10 months max. If it's over that, that's just not our model. I don't want anybody buying a mobile home that's listening to this and then having to wait three or four years to get all their money back. That's not how this business works.

That's not how buyers and sellers will operate. So understanding who the buyers and sellers are, what they want, and then knowing which properties you want to purchase on and move on, once you have that clarity in your market, I mean, there's definitely a method to the madness, but I hope that that made sense to get clarity and then know what they can see. for. Can we dig on that? So how do we value a mobile home? Let's start there. Now, I mean, what's one of these things worth? You know, is it valued similar to a traditional property with

comps or is there another way to go about doing it? A mobile home on land, you can you can get comps to depending how the market is. It may or may not be as valid. Depending on the home, if it's financeable, that's another, that's another obviously barrier as well. So mobile homes on land, you can look at comps, and they're more, that's more valid, especially because there's land that you're going to be purchasing as well. A mobile home in a park now, that is something completely different. Now, mobile home in a park, you can have two mobile homes that are identical, side by side, and one seller needs to sell within this month. The other seller has to, they have savings, they have time, they don't need to sell that fast. And you can purchase the home on the left

from the motivated seller for a couple thousand dollars. And I say the couple thousand dollars, because if it's any more than that, then I'm not going to pay for it. And you shouldn't pay for that either. Now, if the seller wants more, if they can get full price, if they can wait to find a buyer in the market with cash, then they can do so and they can sell it for more. So you're not exactly just looking for the mobile home that is beautiful and pretty and ready to be resold or fixed up a little bit and ready to be sold. You're looking for a motivated seller. So how do you value a mobile home? In a park, you have to know what they can resell for first. That's a great way to find out, okay, what can I resell homes for? What will a three-bedroom sell for in my area? A two-bedroom

sell for in my area. Well, does it need repairs? Does it not need repairs? And then when you purchase a mobile home from a seller, and this is me talking, you can purchase however you want to, of course. but I don't want it just to be where you're doubling your money. That is ridiculous. If you're in this market just to double your money, you can do that very simply. But the returns that mobile home investors are making, especially when you're holding payments, are substantially greater. So basically you're looking at, you're looking at comps, correct? I mean, like, the same way you say, well, that mobile home down in the park on the other end sold for 19,000 and it was beautiful. This one is not beautiful. Is that what you're doing to find a value? Not at all because the, and this is something that to give you more clarity and understand who we're actually selling to, if you just want to make a business out of selling to conventional buyers who are going to go to a bank or buyers with cash that are out in the market, you're going to be waiting a very long time to sell your mobile home because you're competing with everybody else. Everybody wants cash. Everybody wants a fast sale. So if you're selling like everybody else, then you can, yes, you can expect comps. If a home very similar to yours in a park sold a week ago, then possibly yours will sell for that

same price if a buyer comes along that wants to purchase that model home on that street corner in that park with those amenities. But oftentimes there aren't those kind of buyers. Only if we're in very hotspot areas, do you have buyers just throwing cash at mobile home? So it doesn't matter so much the comps because very few people sell mobile homes on a payment basis. So comps really don't matter. It's really that testing before you get into the market and understanding what buyers will pay. Okay, so I've got two questions.

Let's talk about the payment basis, selling on the payment basis versus something else. And you had talked about finding the motivated guys, and I want to get into that. So let's, again, so you're talking about selling on a payment basis. So that's just referring to what we had discussed earlier where you're kind of the bank, right? Correct. Okay. So on the motivated, what are we doing? I'm assuming we're not doing mailings like we would are yellow letters to absentee owners here.

There's a whole different process to find motivated. Is it word of mouth in the mobile space? What are we doing? Great question. So a lot of people, when they come into this business, they think that it's very similar to single family homes where you can find a deal, talk to the seller, and you know, you know if it's going to be a deal, you make the offer, and then if they don't take it, you leave. So with mobile homes in park, we're doing a plethora of advertising. It's not just one method that is going to find you the deal.

And also, you can't, well, you can do whatever you want. But in order to find that cherry pick the very best deals that you want and invest in the homes that you know are going to make your money back in a few months and then everything on top of that is profit. By the way, when we're selling in parks, typically anywhere from five to 10 years is what we're receiving those monthly payments when we resell. So, Josh, the question that you had was concerning finding those types of motivated sellers. We can't predict where lightning is going to strike, but we can have many, many lightning rods in our area. So like I said, just a few minutes ago. That's pretty tweetable, by the way.

Ooh, we like that? Right. Yeah. Okay. Make sure give me some credit for it. The weight has been worth it. So I don't want you, and you really shouldn't, you're like, it's debatable. Don't want you just being an expert, again, in your county.

You have to know, because these are mobile homes, because we have to purchase them below market, where you're making a considerable profit and we have to find that seller that is motivated, we're not just looking in your county, but we're looking in the surrounding counties as well. So you have to cast a big net, make many, many, many offers because some sellers will sell to other people. And if sellers can sell to other people before they have to leave, great, I want them to. Every seller should get just what they want, make the money that they want. It's their home. They should get what they want.

If they can't, then they can go ahead and accept our offer. And the offers are typically very good. We let them know how we can help, how they can also sell. But the long story short is to not just know your area, but know the surrounding areas and make offers to every single seller. Have that bird's eye view, know what's for sale and make offers to every single person. Do park managers help? You know, can you get, you know, get in, buy some chocolate cake for the park manager and, you know, get the inside scoop on who's ready to get the heck out or what? You have such a sweet tooth, Josh.

I'm a sweet guy. By the way, I got those brownies. Thank you so much last year. Oh, the brownies that I sent you last year. You're thinking of me now in June. Wow, awesome, man. Awesome. I appreciate it.

Better late than never. And there we go. My pleasure. They were good, weren't they? Oh, they were so good. I was, I thought you may have gotten me for, I was almost as a, like a punishment. Because I didn't get off the couch. I just ate them and ate them.

One, one night, one whole night, everything. I'm sorry, then. Yeah, that's not good. Yeah, yeah. No, but seriously, to the question about sweet toothing, so to speak, the park managers. I've done that in the past. Other folks who I've worked with have done the same things. Yes, to answer a question, yes, park managers, sometimes they are the gatekeepers to the park. Other times, they think that they own the park and run the park. And basically, they're just people. They

wake up on the right side and the wrong side of bed every day. They know what's for sale in their park. They can go ahead and feed you deals, give you credibility, or they can take that away. They can make your life a nightmare. Does chocolate cake and donuts in the morning work sometimes? Absolutely. However, just even having them know you, you know, meeting them once and then wondering, well, why? I wonder why they didn't give me any deals. Well, you know, it doesn't happen the first time. They have to know that you're in the market. They have to know that you're a person who is going to do what they say they're going to do is not just a fly by night.

And they may have gotten burned by an investor in the past. So something I like to do is whenever I do receive a lead from a park manager is to ask them, you know, how can I say thank you to you? What would make you feel appreciated? You've given me this lead. Thank you. and then I let them say. And sometimes it's a fee. Sometimes it's a gift card somewhere.

At minimum, it's me giving them a gift card after the fact. A little paola. A little paula. At first I thought you said peyote. I'm like, I guess a defense on the other. Oh, geez. No, no, no. Is that legal there too?

Is that Colorado? Aren't you coming up here? Yeah. So what else? So what else besides park managers? You know, in casting that big net, I mean, I'm assuming you're probably, I mean, are you doing direct mail at all? Does that work in mobile homes? Do you send out letters to put up a sign at the mobile home park?

And how does that work? Yes. Not in the park. Park managers take a don't, they don't like that. But as far as signs go, we buy homes, we buy mobile homes. Whenever you leave a park, you can make a left or a right typically. And then you'll come to a stop sign, a traffic light. Put your signs there.

Don't put them on the park property. Park managers won't like that. Parks have bulletin boards. You can hang typically an ad right there if you ask for permission. I don't do direct mailings inside parks. I do direct mailings, mobile homes on land, neighborhoods with land, streets with just mobile homes and small patches of land. So why don't you do them in parks? Why don't you direct mail within a park?

Will the park manager go and remove them off with their mailboxes? No, that's a federal crime. Now, that's something that you could do that I have experimented with when I've gotten permission is to have somebody go and put flyers on everybody's door. And that's a great way to market as well. And if the park manager allows that, by all means, direct mailing or physically just putting something on a mailbox inside the park or their door would be ideal. Mobile homes inside parks, typically you can't get those addresses on the county records.

You'll only get an address for the entire mobile home community. and then inside the community, they're just broken up into lots. So it's typically not going to be one, two, three, J Street. It's going to be lot five of this, which you could do. I mean, obviously, they're receiving mail so you could just mail to every single lot. However, I don't. Out of respect in it getting back to the park manager, which I have to think it really would. I don't want to disrespected a park manager by doing that and I won't do it again.

You're dead to me. Well, and furthermore, it would make sense like, I mean, generally, you don't hear about real estate investors going and direct mailing a whole entire community. You know, they pick out the motivated ones in that community. And so it would make sense not to. I mean, I know some people do every door direct mail from the post office, but typically that's not what I hear people doing because it's a lot of money to mail to a thousand people who are all happy homeowners.

Yeah. There's no point mailing to me. Well, I tell you what, I mean, I used to live in a condo building. And the, it seems fairly similar. You know, this condo building, there were two agents. represented pretty much. They owned the place, right? So there were 200, I think, something units, 300 maybe in the entire property. And almost everybody sold through these guys because, you know, it kind of became their turf, right? They were in with the board and, you know,

they went to every meeting and they shook people's hands. And suddenly everybody knew, okay, if I'm going to do it, this is the person that I'm going to deal with. And it seems like that's probably a better way as well. Just show up to community events, potentially as well, let people get to know you as an alternative to kind of getting them to know and trust you as well. Absolutely. Two things there. The first one being that your first, anybody that really makes the decision, okay, this is something I want to consider, realize that your first three months in this business, nobody knows who you are. Nobody knows how you can help. Park managers, sellers, owners of mobile homes. So you obviously have to take time in the beginning. I say massive action to get you

caught up to where you're a quote-unquote household name. Now, the second thing, Brandon, you were, you were mentioning, you know, why would a, or people don't obviously like sometimes to mail out to a thousand homeowners, not knowing if they even want to sell or if they are selling. They could be a happy homeowner. Mobile home owners in the future, you know, mobile home owners will eventually one day most likely want to sell. We know, or I'm telling, you that mobile homes, when they go to resell, they're going to be somewhat difficult to sell, only because you're selling to a smaller percent of the population. And then of that percent who does want to live in a used mobile home on that particular size of land, now they have to get qualified, they have to

have money, they have to, the home has to be approved by the bank as well. So if you mail to a thousand mobile home owners, you are going to receive more interest than typically if you were mail to a thousand and single family home owners as well, because we know over time, that mobile home owner, eventually they will want to sell. Eventually, if they can't sell, they'll be a motivated seller.

So, again, just, yeah, knowing your buyers and sellers, that's very important. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, people are going to be a lot more motivated who live in a mobile home just for the fact that it's a mobile home and they want to eventually move out of that.

So that makes perfect sense. Well, what about when somebody calls then on a deal? Let's kind of walk through that process. They, you know, for whatever reason, they see one of your marketing, you know, campaign, something. They call you and they say, I've got a mobile home. What do you do? I mean, walk me through that process. I just called you and I'm like, hey, John, you know, I got this ugly mobile home.

I don't know what to do with it. I don't like it. And what do you say? Oh, sure. So there's three things that I do on the very first phone call. I qualify the home, find out about the home. What is it for people listening? Your first, second, third deal, the first few.

aim for the path of lease resistance. People like three bedrooms. People like pretty homes instead of ones that they have to repair. People like family parks. Well, people like senior parks as well, but majority of people, because there's a bigger demographic, like family parks. So with that said, I'm going to qualify the home. And hopefully it's going to be your two or three bedroom. Hopefully it's going to be in a family park. Hopefully that park is going to be average or low lot rent. If that passes and the home is nice and I want to look at it further, I'll then talk about the seller. Why are you looking to sell? And then I'll qualify the seller. So I qualified the home. Now I qualify the seller. Why are you looking to move? What would you like? When do you need to move? What else is for sale in the area? The park, what other offers have you gotten? And talk to them on a conversational basis. Then I'll go ahead and make offers over the phone of what I have purchased before based on what they've told me about their home. And then if they agree, if we're in the same ballpark, I'll set an appointment. Okay, so that way you're not wasting your time going out to look at every property. I don't want to waste anybody's time, mine or theirs.

You know, it's pretty much exactly what you should be doing when you talk to a motivated seller on a traditional property. Yeah, yeah, I mean, really, this game is all the same. I mean, there's obviously differences, but I think those three-step things are perfect for anybody who's just looking to talk to motivated sellers. Yep, so anyone listening, you know, definitely pay attention. And those are some good notes to put down. What about, you know, so that was the first step was, you know, you're going to qualify them. Then what happens? Well, after I've qualified them and we've set an appointment, go out to that appointment,

depending on what they've said, I'm going to go that day or go in the next day or two at most, check out the home. Typically, I don't make an offer while I'm there. I typically let the sellers know that I work with partners or other investors. I have to make decisions with them. So take pictures, explain how our business works while I'm, I'm there, build more rapport with them while I'm there, walk through the home, test every inch of it, and then leave, and about 24 hours later, call them back with a two to three offers.

Two to explain that. Yeah, yeah, please. Sure. I like to give sellers options on how we can purchase their home. Also, I've explained to them in the very first phone call. There's a lot of bullets in our belt. We're paying cash for mobile homes. We're making payments to the seller.

We can do trades. We can, depending on what the seller wants and what they need, in a bunch of other variables, we can give them, again, cash payments, combination of the both. So my three offers are cash payments and typically another payment option as well. With that said, they're very spread out. The first offer is usually very conservative. It's cash. Cash is very black and white.

So our first offer is something to the effect of $1 to $4,000 to $4,000. And then we get very close or we can meet their asking price if we give them payments. So I want them to understand, okay, they are making a cash offer, but they can get very close to what offers that, you know, my asking price if I can accept payments. And then here's the kicker. I want to hear from them over that phone call when I give them the offers. What did you think? What did you think about offer number one? What did you think about offer number two, number three?

Typically, they're not loving any of the offers because, again, I'm an investor. We have to make money. I want to solve their problems. but we're not going to do anything if we don't meet eye to eye. So then from that point, then we're coming up with a win-win offer. I gave you my offers that would be winning. Then they come back with, well, we can't do that, but here's something that we can do. And ultimately, if we're too far apart, we're too far apart.

But oftentimes we can make a deal. And if not, then that seller can always call us back. A temporary no can definitely turn into a no. Ah, yes, down the road. Yeah. You know, just coming from like a marketing standpoint, obviously I do a lot of marketing in bigger pockets. I do a lot of marketing in my real estate business. One thing that when I read marketing blogs, everyone talks about is that idea of three things. I think that's genius that

you do that because it really works well. Like there's something about the human psyche that responds well to three options. Like if you go to, you're going to go buy like a, I don't know, whatever it is. There's always like, here's three options for what you're going to buy. And I actually turned this around on a flip I did last year. I sold it last January. And I put this flip for sale for $110,000. And then in the property when they came and looked at it, there was a piece of paper there said, 110 for the house, or 115 for the house, and I'll add a duckless heat pump, or 120, and I'll throw in granite countertops. And so what that does to people is that normally they go into a house and they say, okay, this one's 110 compared to the one down the street.

That's 108 or whatever. So they're comparing one to another. So instead they compare, well, this one's 110 versus these other two packages. So it takes out the neighbor, takes out the other factors that are out there and makes them focus only on your own. So that's just a tip I want to throw out there to people is, yeah, make multiple offers to people and multiple options. And it can really work well. So anyway, I thought I'd throw that out there. People love to call real estate passive income, which is interesting because most of the investors I know are very busy. Busy finding deals, busy managing teams, busy worrying they pick the wrong market. Rent to retirement flips that model. They help investors buy turnkey new construction homes, often 10% below market value in top rental markets

across the country. Their local teams handle the build, the property management, and the details, so you don't have to. In some cases, investors even receive 50 to 75% of their down payment back at closing, and there are interest rates as low as 3.75%. They've been trusted partners with BiggerPockets for over a decade, and if you want to learn more, visit BiggerPockets.com slash retirement. Here's the truth about passive investing. If the strategy isn't right on day one, the returns won't save it. Multi-family real estate offers structural advantages. Many investors are overlooking, including depreciation that can help offset taxable income while cash flow continues.

Bam Capital builds its investment with that reality in mind. They are focused on solid operators, tax efficiency, and long-term performance. For investors who want real estate exposure without being landlords and who care about consistency over hype, this is a smarter way to allocate capital. Learn more at biggerpockets.com slash bam. The rise of the tech savvy investors here. You don't need a huge team or tons of overhead to manage rental properties. Just the right tools. So I want to tell you about how I use rent ready to get ahead. For landlords who treat their time like capital and recognize the cost of sweat equity, this tool gives you everything you need to scale. Rent collection, tenant screening,

maintenance accounting, so that you're organized come tax season, and you can run numbers in preparation for future deals and more. all in one platform via a mobile app or desktop. Modern landlords don't just own property. They optimize it. Rent Ready will keep you organized, running leaner, and ready to grow. Start with RentReady. Visit RentReady.com slash Bigger Pockets.

That's RentR-E-D-I.com slash Bigger Pockets. And use code BP 2025 to get Rent Ready's six-month plan for a dollar. Wouldn't it be great if your house plants paid rent while you were out of town? I mean, they've got the whole place to themselves, lots of sunlight, zero responsibilities. But no, they just sit there. there waiting for someone to spray them with some cool mist like a bunch of leafy loafers. But guess what? Your home actually could be earning you money while you're not there. Airbnb has a great feature called the co-host network, which makes hosting your home so easy.

If you live far from your property or are away for extended periods, you can hire a local co-host to take care of the hosting for you. These co-hosts are vetted locals who already have experience hosting on Airbnb. A co-host can handle all the details like messaging guests, creating your host space, and managing reservations. So everything runs smoothly. It's a practical way to earn a little extra money, maybe even some cash toward your next trip. Plus, you get to share your place with someone traveling to your area while you're off making memories somewhere else. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host.

Let me actually move on to a topic that I guess red flags. On a property, you go out and look at one. And what do you normally look at in a mobile home and you're like, oh, that's no way. I will not touch that mobile home. or is that ever a case? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I've written an article on the site that definitely talks about that. There are a few things that I've realized that you may be surprised about that are most things in a mobile home can be fixed.

And most things, price cures everything. When if we need to resell it, we can lower that move-in fee. We can lower the monthly payments, keep the price of the home the same. But we can make it attractive to the end user. There are some things, and I would even go farther than red flags, because red flags are just sort of a warning, I think. But, you know, like an absolute, cross-sculling cross-sones. Yeah, like a stop sign would be the notoriously small bedroom on a mobile home, typically on a single wide, if it has three rooms, you'll find one of those bedrooms is just notoriously small. It's not a, it's not a bedroom.

I mean, it is a bedroom, but it's most people, if you go into this home and you see this, bedroom. You're like, this isn't a bedroom. Also, if it's functionally obsolescent, obsolete, if the ceiling is too short, if it's, well, senior parks are definitely all right. Even if one star park is all right, there's a buyer for that. If there's chronic proms throughout the home, I will not invest in it. Other people who I've worked with do. They like to do repairs. I don't like to do that many repairs. There's plenty of deals out there, and I don't touch one if it's got just chronic roof-ish. throughout the home, chronic floor issues, there's holes in the floor throughout. I don't touch that. But the small bedroom, that's a huge red flag, smells, smells can be cleaned up usually. So really just

the small bedroom, if a park manager, if I don't like the park manager or their application process is ridiculously thorough, I won't invest there either. So it's really, those are the deal, the deal killers, a two strict park and then a small bedroom. That's interesting. And again, you know, back to the idea of buying a condo or something in an HOA, it sounds kind of similar. I mean, I would never buy an investment property in an HOA just because you've got these. You know, it's hard enough dealing with the buyers, the sellers, all that, you know, dealing with all the folks that you deal with normally as an investor, but dealing with a board or park managers complicates things. And so, you know, for what you're doing, find,

the managers that, you know, are easy to work with, whose rules are fairly easy to deal with. It seems like a good method. That said, if I could call you, I want to call you out on something here, Josh, real quick. So here's my thought. When you say you obviously had a very bad experience with a condo association. But looking back, like, first of all, I'm curious, did you, how much research did you do into the condo association before you did it? And then how many, like, books, forums, podcasts, whatever, did you research to try to

overcome those problems. You know, because this is before probably your investing. Oh, sure. Absolutely. So like, I mean, a lot of, a lot of newbies say things like, I will never do X, Y, Z because I had a bad experience, but I would still never do it. Not only for my own personal experience, but I, you know, I've got a lot of friends who've owned properties, owned investment properties in, in, uh, HOAs. My, my stems from, I will tell you, I lived in a building, the HOA, what tends to happen in HOAs, and this is a gross generalization, but we're going to run with it anyway. You know, everybody in the world, we all have some need, some desire to have power, right? The world is all about power. We're all kind of trying to get our piece of the pie.

And, you know, most people in general have no power. You know, the only power they may have is over their family or something else. Well, what happens is folks go get into these HOAs and, suddenly they have a little bit of authority, a little bit of power, and they like to wield that power. And, you know, I will put it to you to ask people you know who have bought property in HOAs if this rings true, because I know it has for almost everybody I've spoken to. So what happens is you get these HOAs where, you know, people get power hungry and they start making rules that, you know, are kind of tedious and difficult. And suddenly you're dealing with stuff. And so, you know, in my experience, listen, I dealt with an HOA who was throwing, you know, it was run by a tight click of people who threw people out of the building that they didn't like.

I dealt with an HOA that refused to buy earthquake insurance in Southern California, you know, and I've got an investment in this property and I'm sitting here without earthquake insurance. You know, and I say, well, that's crazy. You know, let's do something about it. Let's rally the troops. And suddenly I'm playing politics. and I'm an owner, I don't have the time or energy to play politics. And I think most owners and most investors don't want to deal with that either.

In places like New York City where they have co-ops, you can't even sell your, I mean, selling your property, you need permission and approval to who you could sell that property to. So when I say I would never buy in an HOA, I mean it. And I mean it because there's difficulties that come with. with an HOA, it's an extra layer that you as an investor don't need to worry about, shouldn't have to worry about. It's hard enough to go out, find good deals, you know, get the deals handled. You know, if you're a landlord, deal with, you know, deal with your tenants. But to worry about all the other

stuff, is this board going to throw up extra assessments? Is the board going to throw in extra fees, things like that? Or are they going to change the rules and do something crazy, which happens all the time? You know, is that going to happen? So that's, that's my reason and and I appreciate you flipping the question on it. And if I didn't answer it, well, then ask some more. It makes sense. I just want to make sure, you know, like a lot of people just turn things down because they had a bad experience, but I like to say you had a bad experience. Kind of like this. My brother-in-law had a terrible experience of landlording. He was fixing toilets at 2 a.m. I will never be a landlord because I won't fix toilets at 2 a.m. And I would, yeah, I always

challenged that. Say, well, you know, the logic is incorrect there, saying I won't do it because I don't want to do toilets. Well, I don't do toilets at 2 a.m. I'm a landlord. So anyway, that's my point. And besides the fact, you know, I had a bad experience with John Fedro, you know, not making it to the podcast the first time we tried to do it. And he's back. That just shows how big of a person you are. It does. That's the same, well, this stigma that I get the brain that you're talking about with mobile homes. I mean, everybody turns their noses up at these. I've heard countless times that I, oh, I would never do that because they're mobile homes, because they depreciate.

Because you can't get your money back because the people who live inside of them are, well, all sorts of things that aren't true at all. And my point is not about, you know, is it true or is it not? Brandon asked me, my answer is I don't want that headache. You know, for me, I've dealt with that headache. I've talked to enough people who have also dealt with that headache. I've seen it happen. And I have friends who have the perfect home. They love their home.

They love where they live. And they're like, I have to run for the board. Like, what do you mean you have to run for the board? Well, this board is so crazy, so chaotic. They're doing all sorts of things. They're making rules that I can't do this. And they have to dictate the color that I paint my house and, you know, that my grass not be, you know, three quarters of an inch, but be a half an inch or shorter.

You know, and it's like, come on. Do you need that? I don't want to deal with it. So, you know, I'm not saying investors shouldn't necessarily buy it with an HOA. I say, I won't buy it an HOA because of A, B&C. And if you're thinking about it as a new investor, be warned and know ahead of time that these are possibilities that could come up. And what that does is it does create a niche, right? You know, there's guys who love condos, people who will deal with them because, you know, they don't care. And it's not a headache to them. And that's fine. Yeah. And that's kind of what John's saying too, right? Mobile homes, there's a lot of people who don't want them, which just means more for you.

Yep. Essentially, that's what it turns into. Correct. Why'd this, how'd this become about me, by the way? I don't know. I don't know. All right. So I want, come on now. Before we wrap this up, I want to go into some non-mobile home related questions. I got actually, hold on. I'm going to cut you off because I have one last mobile home question, which is a pretty important one. So on mobiles, there's something called Lonnie deals, right? And Lonnie deals are these deals based. I think they were created.

They're called Lonnie deals because of Lonnie Scruggs. Lonnie was this mobile home guy. He's recently passed away. And, you know, he kind of, I don't know if he coined the term or the term was coined around him. But what is a Lonnie deal? Because people who are investing in mobile homes probably have heard this in May or may not know what exactly they are.

Sure. To my understanding, and I've never done a Lonnie deal, exactly. But to my understanding, Lonnie deals are you're purchasing homes from anywhere from $2,000 to $4,000. You're selling them for double, about $6,000 to $8,000. And that's the general, that's a mobile home in a park. They could need work. They could not need work. Our two methods aren't similar. But that's what that's my understanding of a Lonnie deal. Purchasing a very typically out-of-date mobile home, again, $2,000,

quickly selling it and holding payments for just about $6 or $7,000. Not not much. Maybe if you're buying it for five and selling it for 10, but that just, yeah, that's a Lonnie deal in a nutshell. And go ahead. No, I just, I mean, that's, he's taught, you know, thousands and thousands. I think he's the grandfather of mobile home investing. And that was the status quo for 10, 20 years of what you were doing with mobile homes. Things have changed. Affordable

housing nowadays have changed. Lonnie deals, they leave a lot of money on the table. They don't take into account for new laws that have changed. The homes that I feel that those deals, again, I'm just looking at the nicer homes, I guess. But there's money to be made. I mean, mobile homes, you can do Lonnie deals or something that I do or your own path. But, There's certainly money to be made in this industry. Yeah, and as Brandon and I like to say, you know, there's lots of different strategies you can follow in any given niche. And so, you know, what you do, John, is definitely your own strategy. And I'm sure there's lots of other people who do it.

But, you know, it's not the only path. And, you know, certainly we encourage people, you know, if you're interested in mobiles to kind of look at the various ways that you can go about doing it. And, you know, just do it. as long as you're doing it legal and you're, you know, you're doing well by yourself, you know, go for it. Cool. Cool. Absolutely.

There's a lot of sellers out there that need, that do need help. There's a lot of mobile homes. Oftentimes, I'm one of the first investors, buyers that are there. Yeah, there's a lot of sellers out there that need help. And I think real estate investing, that's what this business comes down to. We're only here in business because we create value. Yeah. Create value with the sellers, the buyers.

Despite what the media says, right? Despite, oh, my goodness. The media. I just, the article I wrote this week started off by saying that I, I recently, I told somebody that I was a real estate investor. And just the look that she gave me was one of disgust. And I didn't, it was my first time meeting her. That was like, you know, we exchanged pleasantries. What do you do?

And as soon as I said, real estate investor, she just. You sure it wasn't the unkem tear and the T-shirt? I don't know what he's talking about. I'm in a business too right now. I keep that as a reminder. In a little jar. I just never brush my teeth. Wow.

All right. I'm moving on. All right. So going back to my, when Josh so rudely interrupted me with another mobile home question. All right. Non-mobile home questions because obviously a lot of people listen to the show are not into mobile homes. They're not doing that. So I'm going to talk about a few things that might apply to everybody here.

First of all, let's go back to what you talked about at the very beginning. You were, you know, deathly afraid. You threw up. You were so afraid of that first deal. It reminds me back on one of our episodes with Danny Johnson. And I'll link to that in the show notes at BiggerPockets.com slash show 75. But he talked about when he got his first phone call, he took the phone and threw it across the room at his wife. Oh, yeah.

He just didn't know what to do. He just chucked the phone at her. Like, ah, you take it. They got so scared, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, it's a natural thing. I mean, I still get nervous when people call me. I mean, I still get a little bit of like,

I don't want to talk to them. So how should a new investor overcome that fear of talking to motivated sellers or whoever in the business? How do you overcome that fear? Two really good nuggets. The first one is know your sellers. There's three types of sellers that mobile home and sellers fall into. The first type, they're very illogical, they're very irrational, maybe 8 to 10% of sellers

fall into this category. They're pulling out their hair. They will sell their mobile home to anybody with a pulse. They want very little money. They might be getting evicted by the park. That's the very small percentage in their homes go very quickly. The next group of people, they do want your help. They need more time to sell. Or they can take more time to sell. The smallest group, the 10 percent, they need to sell in like two weeks to three weeks. The next group, they need to sell in a month, two months. They have a little bit of time. The third group, which is the majority, They need, they have money, they have time. They have five, four, six months or more to sell. So really understanding who you're talking to is the first thing. Because if you talk to three or excuse me, 10 low priority sellers, which I call that, that biggest group, the ones that they have time, they have finances, they don't need to sell, then understand that your job there is to educate them. Our job is to educate every single seller. Some want to work with us, some don't. that's sort of the first, you know, thing to understand is once we take on that mindset of education

versus it's me versus a seller, now it's you and a seller joining forces to then sell their, their headache, their unwanted home. So that's my first thing that I would say. The second is to have a, have a partner, have somebody that you're the lower guy on the totem pole in your small investing business company, partnership, whatever you may want to say. So you don't have to know all the answers. If you don't know something, that's a great question. Let me talk to my partner, and next time we talk, I'll have an answer for you. Yeah, those are the two things. Educate sellers. And I think that also potentially applies to anybody, right? So the education, I mean, again, that's how people get deals, right? You're not, you know, somebody's not going to sell to you

because they think you're a scumbag. They're going to sell to you because they think you're going to help them with their problem. And, you know, you're going to get the deal. because you're helping them solve the problem versus the guy who's low-balling them, maybe offering the exact same price that you're offering. But their motivation is, oh, I'm going to get this cheap, whereas your motivation from their eyes is I'm going to help you out of your tough situation. And then the second thing, it sounds like even if you don't have your partner, you're kind of talking to your imaginary partner.

Is that true? That's correct. Okay, just checking. Or your wife or husband or whatever people can talk to. Multiple personality. Yeah, that explains a few things. All right. So speaking of your personalities, let's talk about building the brand and the reputation.

So how does somebody, whether it be mobile or any other niche in this industry, how do you go about building a good brand and reputation for yourself? By massive action. If you're starting off in any new niche, any real estate investment, on umbrella, you're getting started, or you're not getting started, you're just switching niches or you're wondering, you know, everybody can have a better brand. And it doesn't happen by, oh, I talked to one person this week, or I networked with this guy, and I did this and that. You know, you have to take this massive action. People have to, you have to be on the top of the minds of sellers of people in this business. If you're not mobile home investing,

then there are people in your industry, such as realtors, such as other investors, dealers, brokers. I'm thinking park managers, obviously, for my industry. Dealers? Well, dealers, again, probably just for my industry, mobile home investing. Oh, okay. I thought you're drug dealers. You'd be surprised. Well, that's kind of why I brought it up. So it's to have massive action. If ever I'm giving advice to a newer person, the first, nine weeks, the first three months or so, you're really doing a lot more than you're going to be

doing moving forward. People have to know who you are. You have to continually be following up with sellers, following up with park managers, following up with realtors, with other investors, reminding them of what you do. You don't have to throw money at things. You don't have to be, people have to know that you're in this business. You do what you say you're going to do. Obviously, five years from now, if you're still in this business, people know who you are, you've done what you said you're going to do. But in the beginning, we have to be following up with sellers every single day, five days a week, I make seven calls. I call three old sellers who I've already talked to. I call three new sellers who I've never talked to before. And I talk to two park managers to follow up with them.

So that's seven people five days a week. That's how I, in addition to my other marketing, my other advertising, going to networking meetings, that's who I'm. I'm talking to. That's why I'm following up, who I'm staying on the top of everybody's minds. That's how I have leads coming to me, sometimes seemingly from I don't know where. So that's the best advice I can give. And there's really no magic there. It's persistent and it's loving what you do and being loud about it. Yeah. I think that's great. You wrote an article a while back about being a loud and proud real estate investor and getting out there and letting people know what you do. I thought that was excellent. Another article you actually just wrote.

And we'll link to that. Yeah, we'll link to it. By the way, which are at biggerpockets.com slash so 75. Yep, yep. So another article, speaking of the articles you wrote, you wrote one a couple weeks ago, I thought was just terrific. I mean, really terrific. And it was the one small, simple step to growing your network and increasing your influence.

And what you had said in there was you challenged people. It was a really short article and just said, I challenge you to go out to lunch this week, call somebody that you admire and respect, and ask them out to lunch, set a time, date, and location. And so many people don't do things like that. It's such an actionable step, though. I mean, just do it. I mean, don't stop talking about it. Stop thinking about it.

And so I just want to throw that challenge out to everyone listening as well as this week, go read that article and then go and call out just one person you respect and admire in your area and take them out the lunch. I think it's a terrific idea. It's great. Yeah. That really is good. That really is good. All right. Well, for those people who are trying to figure out their niche, do you have any advice?

you are green, you fell into mobiles now that you've been in the business for a while. What could other new people do to better figure out what niche is going to work for them? Sure. Actually, I just made a video about this. I get to this question quite often. John, I'm not sure what type of investor I should be. First, I want to disagree with that question because the whole, what type of niche do I focus in? What type of investor should I be? it makes us think that real estate investing is this monolithic road that we go down. Once you're on, you're in it until you fail or you die or win or lose. And that's not how this business works,

where you're just like living in life and your career, things that niches that you decide to go into are going to be a product of your attributes and perception and your wants at the time, your goals, and many different other things. So the first thing I would say, if you want, a couple actionable steps, is to, number one, spend a week or so understanding the bunch of different niches. I know you, Brandon, you had written a hundred ways to make money in this real estate investing. Love that article. Thanks.

And, you know, understand those. And then from a bird's eye view, pick two or three that really excite you. Then take out those local investors who are an expert in those niches and then understand the clarity, the footwork that you're going to need to take moving forward. maybe not every step, obviously, but the basic footwork moving forward, then take massive action to become known in your area and find those deals. So it's when you take this action that you're rubbing shoulders with sellers, with other investors, and at least you're doing something, you're gaining traction.

Will you do a few deals? You know, could you do a few deals? Yes. Will it be your ultimate ideal niche? Probably not. You're going to find something else that you like. And maybe organically, a multifamily seller might call you and you say, what the heck is this and then you partner with someone who knows that and then you're in that niche and you really

love it. So be active, continue to rub shoulders with people in this business. And don't be afraid to pull the trigger. You know, have clarity of what a deal is. If you're scared about a deal or you don't know that you're going to purchase something wrong, then you don't have enough understanding. So find someone that does. And then, yeah, and then put one foot in front of the other in front of the other and front of the other. Yeah, that's great. That's great. You know, I've said this analogy before, but there's that old, you know, the TV show, The Price is Right. And they play this game Plinko, which is really, yeah, they drop this, like, ball down this board. It has a million pegs on it. And you never know where it's going to land at the bottom because it's just bouncing

around all these pegs. That's kind of how I see a lot of real estate investing is like, you just hit these pegs constant in your life and you just kind of go down to a certain thing that fits you. And you never know if you don't drop the ball. Like, you'll never know if you don't, you know, drop the Plinko coin or whatever it is they drop, right? So you just get out there, start doing it, start hitting pegs. Sometimes it hurts. Sometimes it's fun. And you end up somewhere good. Nice. Cool. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. All right. Well, let's talk about something you hit on earlier and I want to dive into it. It's investing when you're young or when you look young. Come in, a lot of people listen to the podcast. Podcasts, you know, attract a lot of young listeners. So what does people do when they look

like they're 15? They might be 25, 30, whatever. They look 15. How do you, how do you get over that? You know, I don't think I could have ever convinced myself when I got started, even the first five or six years, because I just didn't change. I don't think I hit puberty until I was about 27. And so there's nothing I could, because people would have told, or people did tell me my young friends who were successful at the time as well, they said, you know, screw your age. Who cares? You're there to help people.

And as much as I heard that, it still didn't sink in. Now looking back, I really see that sellers, the. right type of sellers, mind you. Sellers, when they see how much you care, they don't care about how much you know within reason. So if you're willing to help that seller, if that seller is motivated to sell, you don't need to know everything, but you do have to have the willingness to help, the willingness, maybe to find somebody who knows, and then help that seller.

So you could wait. Yeah. Ultimately, I think that's what, and that's what I love about this business is that only time will tell. I don't know what the percentage is now. I read many years ago that 95 plus percent of investors that call themselves investors never actually do deals. So ultimately, it's going to be you to pull the trigger. After you pull over on the side of the road and get sick and are so nauseous, you don't know what to do, that's your moment. Are you going to run home with your tail between your legs or just do it. Your age is a ridiculous thing to be worried about. And you can even say that I'm

that low person on the totem pole. You know, I work with this company. I have partners. My job is to come out, take pictures, find out what the seller wants and really, you know, get to know you face to face. So there's always a way around any sort of hurdle that we have in front of us. It's just, does the person have the motivation? And any person that will, that's just indicative of a real estate investor, you're always going to have hurdles. So if it's not the age thing, it's going to be, oh, I don't have enough money, I don't have enough time. This gets in the way, that gets in the way. So yeah, age is nothing but a number, just like Alia says. Hey, so I'm going to get, I'm going to get grief if I don't ask this question. And so I've got to ask it.

You know, and we've had, this is a debate and maybe it's a dangerous thing to raise here. it's very similar to the discussion about, you know, you're the owner of the property versus you're the manager of the property when you're a landlord. So, you know, is there is there some, you know, do we lose a little bit of credibility here by saying, hey, you know, my partner's this and that and not being wholly up front in that, you know, you are the guy. Are you parsing? Or is it, you know, ultimately, listen, you've got a company, you work for the company. The company, obviously is your company, but you're an employee of that company or you're a member of that company, whatever it is. And it's all good. I know that this becomes a huge debate, but has that ever

kind of crossed your mind or concerned you that, you know, you're talking about these partners that may or may not exist? Many times they do. Oftentimes I do run by, do run my deals by some people. In the beginning, I had one or two financial friends that did help me out. That, there is a gray area in real estate investing, whether people want to admit it or not. This is a question that I don't even think is, I would love to see the debate. The fact, the fact that there's even a debate about this is interesting. I have no trouble sleeping at night using the word we instead of using the word I. Am I going to, now, if I need my quote-unquote other investor friend to call up that seller, you know,

because a K rarely has somebody said to me, well, put this person on the phone. And if that's the case, then, you know, I have had people that I would have called them, the partners that I was working with, that would call. So occasionally that's been fine. It's not John Fedro's other personality. No. No. Listen to John.

No. So. Yeah, that is, is that really a debate? I mean, do people get to that? It started because, well, not started, but it blew up a year ago because I wrote an article called How to Be a Landlord, my top 10 tips for success. And number 10 was don't be the landlord. When my tenants ask me, do you own the property?

I say, I manage the property. I don't say, no, I don't own it. I just say, I manage it. So the question is, is that a sin of admission? by me not stepping out and telling them, yes, I own it and I manage it. I'm just wearing the manager hat. And some people got really upset about that. And I mean, I understand why. I mean, it's, like you said, maybe it's a gray area. But I don't advocate lying ever. But is it wrong not to share all the details? And some people say yes. Some people say no. I don't know. I just wanted to bring it up. I mean, you know, it's something that may be top of mind for people. I know when when I don't ask our guests a question, I get like slammed by email by like, all these angry listeners are like, why didn't you ask them that? That's something you should have asked. So, yeah, there you go. That's the, and not all of our listeners are angry, just the five of you.

Why'd you go so easy on him? Yeah, yeah. All right. I've got one last question before we get to the next section here and start wrapping this. If you could go back, tell yourself one piece of advice when you were first starting out, what would it be other than, you know, bring some mouthwash after, you know, vomiting on that first thing? Well, you know, everything that I'm really happy with where I'm at now and everything that I've learned and all the mistakes I've made, the countless, countless mistakes that I've made, I really feel that they were a, that they did a service to where I'm at right now. So what I would tell myself is different than what I would tell other people just getting started. But you asked me the question about what I would tell myself. And I would say, John, don't be afraid to keep stretching yourself. After my 25th or 30th deal in parks on land, there was like this year where three, two, two definitely, but then the third one, pretty sure, I could have gotten into purchasing an

entire mobile home community before it was listed on the market, before the seller really even wanted to sell. And I was just, no, I don't want to purchase a park. I'm doing my own thing. I'm buying the homes. And I was just so closed off on owning a park. So that's what I would say is, you know, John, don't get pitch. and hold into your niche, just because you love what you're doing and you're making money and

you're good at it, don't be afraid to expand. Gotcha. Gotcha. And I love that you talk about how many countless mistakes you've made. And I just want to harp on that, not to call you out, but because pretty much any successful real estate investor would say the exact same thing if they were being honest with themselves, right? Ultimately, you're going to make mistakes.

Don't be afraid to make those mistakes. They're unavoidable. It's going to happen. And if you're listening, you know, just be prepared and know that when they happen, you'll have to figure out what to do and where to turn. And, you know, hopefully places like bigger pockets can help you out or, you know, have some folks at the ready to assist. I had one more question, so I kind of lied before we get to our fire round, which was, you know, this was very theoretical. This show, we talked about a lot about, you know, what you can and can't, should, shouldn't. and how different approaches,

but we didn't really talk too much about you and what you've done. We talked about that first deal. So just really quickly, do you have like a favorite deal other than the first deal that you've done or like a really cool deal story or funny or strange or just something,

some other deal that you'd like to share that could maybe help motivate and inspire or just gross us out? Or just gross us out. Where do I begin? Don't make me choose. Oh, just. You know, it always blows me away that there's no cookie cutter deals.

They're all unique and different. I will give this example that I purchased a deal from a seller. She had two mobile homes. It was very creative, and I wrote an article on Bigger Pockets discussing this, where I purchased both of her homes. I gave her, I think it was $4,000 out of pocket. and the rest of the money was I discounted her hospital note. She had these just, I think it was $30,000 or $40,000, close to $40,000 in hospital debt. And I removed all of that by working with a credit removal company.

I know that that debt didn't, oh, no, it was credit debt and then it was also a hospital debt. And I removed the hospital debt by paying it off at 10%. And then the credit card debt, I got wiped away. So she was asking $60,000 plus for both of those homes. One was on land. One was in a park. I went ahead and purchased it for $4,000 out of pocket. And then I cleared up all that other debt.

I did have to pay 10% for the hospital debt, but just purchased them completely, you know, creatively. And what I loved about that is that she was, I was getting this amazing deal. And it was so just bizarre and abstract. But she was so thankful. And I remember her being so thankful. I sold both of those properties to buyers that are on the other end of the spectrum. We're buying from sellers that are emotional that want to get rid of their homes. All right, sellers, we're buying from sellers that want to get rid of their home.

And then on the other side of that emotional spectrum, you have buyers now that they don't get qualified at a bank. Maybe they can't get qualified at a bank. They do have jobs. They do have good income. They're good, low-risk people. And they want a home-to-own. We're selling that home to them.

And they were just as thrilled as they could be. So that's pretty indicative of every deal. You have the happy buyers and sellers. Everything's win-win. But I loved this particular deal because it was just one of the few that I put together with just a super cool creative strategy that I was able to reduce that hospital debt. I never heard of anybody doing that before. That's very cool.

It's just about what she wanted. One of the things I think I had learned it a few weeks back from this appointment was, ask them, what are you going to do with that money? If I give you that money, you're going to put it here on your kitchen table? What are you going to do with it? But in the bank? Great. That's a really good question.

Yeah. That's a really good, good question. Awesome. Yeah, because that'll help you get to the crux of what their issue is. My uncle's in the hospital. I got to pay the bills or, you know, I, whatever it is. And by finding that out, you know, maybe you could come up with a creative solution. And clearly you did.

So that was, that was awesome. Well, let's, let's move on to. It's time for the fire round. All right. The fire round. These questions come straight out of the bigger pockets forums. These are questions real people ask, and we're going to ask you to answer them. Number one, why are park owned mobile homes generally not desirable? That was a question in the forums. Oh, that's a really good question. Now, it could be the forum if you're going to be owning communities. And if that's what this is in reference to, most mobile home park buyers, when they're going to buy the entire communities,

they're not looking to purchase the mobile homes that convey with the property. We typically want to sell those homes off. So most mobile home park buyers, when they want to purchase an entire mobile home park, they will go ahead and sell those homes and just collect on the land underneath the home. Now, park-owned home for what I do, if you're just buying the individual mobile homes, park-owned mobile homes, if they're selling those homes, I like them a lot. I don't know why they're not desirable. If a park is selling a home for $30,000, I'm not interested.

$20,000, I'm not interested. If they're selling it for a normal price or $1,000, $3,000, $5,000, $6,000, then I'm interested. But otherwise, I don't have any problems with them. So I think the question may have been with regards to a community, if you're buying an entire community and then they're sort of undesirable because most community buyers want the land. They don't want to have to landlord the actual home on the land. That makes sense. Yeah.

I'm not sure which was the original intent either, but you answered that perfectly. Nice. All right. Hard money. Is that a good resource for mobile home investors? No. I'm always, I mean, yes, you can buy, you can use it. You can use it.

I'm not a big fan of ever going to a bank and signing on personally, whether it be a bank or a hard money lender. And if you're going to purchase a mobile home, remember that the exit strategy, if you're going to sell it with cash, if you're going to sell it with conventional financing or FHA financing, hard money may work.

But mobile homes and parks, we're buying them for just so inexpensive and we're putting very little to moderate amounts of money into them before we sell them. But we're making our money back in a year or less, 10 months or less. So yeah, I'm not a big fan at all. You're asking the wrong guy because I hate hard money.

I hate bank loans. And I say don't ever go there if you don't need to. There's plenty of other ways to purchase without. No, cool, cool. All right, how about this question? How do I turn down a motivated seller that I just flat out cannot buy their property? Like maybe they owe, I think the original thought was like they owe, you know, they owe far more than it's worth.

Or even if they sold it for $0, it would cost. more to demo the thing. And you know what I mean? Like, if you just flat out cannot buy a property, how do you turn down a motivated seller? With the mindset that we talked about 10, 10 or so minutes ago, where you're an educator, I want to let sellers know on the first phone call what type of buyers they can expect, what they can sell their home for, how they can sell, how we can help. And over the first phone call, if there's something that that turns me off of this home, I don't like it. I'm very clear and upfront. Not only do I express why I, I wouldn't be interested in that and that it doesn't fit my criteria, my model for investing.

But I want to help them. You know, I want at least, at least point them in the right direction of solving their problem. I mean, they're a person. They should, you know, I don't want anything bad to come of them. If they can sell it, I want them to sell it. So I try to educate them how to do so, even if I can't do it. And I flat out tell them that that's because of X, Y, and Z. Okay.

I'm just not interested. Yeah. You know, there was an interesting question because it happened to me a few weeks ago where I went and looked at a property where the lady, she wanted like 15,000 for this ugly house. I mean, it was really, really just terrible house. I went and looked at it. I mean, it was beyond, there's very few houses that are beyond repair. This one was far beyond repair.

So she wanted 15,000. The lot itself was worth maybe 10, but it would cost 15, 20 to demo it. So, like, I had to tell her, I mean, basically, you have no options. Like, I mean, that was a hard one for me. And I just basically said, you know, I can't do anything with it. Good luck. I hope you can. but I don't know.

It's a hard conversation to have when I just flat out tell somebody that I can't help you. But like you said, if you can give them options, great. You know, I may seem a little jaded because over the years, I've talked to so many sellers that have been sold a manufactured home in a park or on land even, but in a park. They paid retail price for it. They bought it from a dealer, $60,000, $50,000 that you're buying a brand new manufactured home. You know, new. And then you go to resell it and you're realizing that the market, people only want to spend a couple thousand dollars. If they go to a bank, the bank isn't going to, it's not appraised for that type of money.

Buyers don't have that type of money. They're not looking to pay for the next 20 years on a manufactured home. Most buyers. So I talk to so many good people that get fooled into buying brand new manufactured homes. And it's unfortunate because I do have to be the bearer of realistic news just like you did, Brandon, And when you educated her and let her know, that's what the market is looking like. So, yeah, you just have to be the professional and let them know either way. Nice.

Nice. All right. Last question is tools. Do you have any tools or anything like that that you use to help you kind of manage your investments, your mobile home investments? Or do you just kind of spreadsheet it? What do you do? I'm old school. I do need, I actually am going to be purchased.

my first entire mobile home community that has a muscle touch. Thank you. And there's 70 plus lots there. So I do need to step up my game into the 21st century with regards to management. I have property managers for most of my properties now. The properties I don't, I just use Excel. And that works great for me. And before that I used a piece of paper and like a notebook that I'm very fond of still. So I'm kind of old school. I haven't gotten too much on. line yet, at least with regards to the management aspect of this.

I need to. If you have any good suggestions, I'd be open to you. I'm always looking as well. But what I was going to say is I would love, I mean, you write every week on the Bigger Pockets blog, so hopefully, you know, we can kind of follow your journey as you buy this

mobile home park. I'd love to hear more about that because, yeah, that's exciting. That's very cool. So, congrats on that. Yeah. Cool. Well, let us move on to the end of the show,

the last section, which we call the The Famous Four. The Famous Four, these questions we ask everyone. So let's see what you have to say. Number one, what is your favorite real estate book? Favorite real estate book is I'm a big fan of courses. I've purchased a lot of courses, boot camps, blah, blah, blah, over the years. As far as books go, that I'm going to a store to buy, I got to say, how to win friends and influence people.

It's not real estate I know, but it is definitely, definitely put the real estate mindset in me that I use. and that's of valuing people, caring about people, providing a value. Okay. That works. That kind of, that might be the same as our next one, but what is your favorite? Which is your favorite business book? Yeah, what's your favorite business book? Would you say that's your favorite business?

Would you say that one? I like that one. Okay. There you go. Nice. What do you do for fun, man? I box. I just started boxing.

Really? Really? Yeah. Maybe I should stop giving you a hard time then. I think at the next Bigger Pockets conference, me and John. Fedro here should have a boxing match. By the way, Fedro, Brandon here is literally

like, says this every week to me. I should, I should box somebody. I should ninja fight somebody. I should, like, you know, backflip and beat up so and so. But it has to be at the summit. It has to be at the summit. You're a little bit aggressive there, Brandon.

I'm going to change the picture on my punching bag from Josh's face over to Brandon's face now to get used to. Oh, man. Really. Okay. So I'm, I'll take my dartboard down of you too then, John.

All right, boxing. Boxing, cool. Anything else? I swim a lot and hang out with friends. I like to read a lot and play my piano as well. You play piano? I am learning how to play piano. Let's go go jump on the piano.

Oh, you know, it's so far. Oh, okay. On time, we got to. All right, time to go. All right. Maybe it's a bigger box that's next summer. Yeah, maybe you could lead us. All right.

Final question. What do you believe sets apart successful real estate investors from those who give up or fail? Oh, without a doubt, the ones that give up and fail. I mean, that, that is. Captain obvious. Come on. Was that not the, I've had plenty of opportunities where I, we're going to a job would have been the easier way to go.

Well, okay. So now that I have a time to have that question sink in a little bit, I would, say a support structure of people you can go to. I've been fortunate to have to be to rub shoulders with some of the very, very experienced active people in this business. So it's not just first getting started or even after maybe one deal or two deals. You're still sort of, you're still sort of living on faith. You haven't really proven to yourself that this can be done on a full-time basis or on a basis that you would like it in your mind. really having that support group of active people, people that build you up that are doing this

as well, that has certainly helped keep me into the business. And I've never once really, really considered ever dropping out. Cool. So I hope that that helped. Good answer. I like it. That's good. Awesome. And well, listen, definitely covered a lot of material here. We certainly appreciate you hopping on the show finally. And so as we bid you farewell, where can you? can people find out more about you? You can find me at mobilehomeinvesting.net. Mobilehomeinvesting dot net. Nice. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Well, listen, thanks again. We do appreciate it. And for those people listening in, if you've got any questions for John, you can ask them at biggerpockets.com slash show 75. Thanks again, John. Thank you. All right, everybody. That was our show with John. I'm going to blow you off

once or twice. Fedro. Just kidding, John. You know, I love you. Otherwise, I want to had you back. Now, John was great. And, you know, we really do appreciate all the insight that he shared with us. And, you know, we do want to thank him for his time. You can also, of course, find him on Bigger Pockets where he's an active member. Beyond that, you know, thanks again for listening. This is 75, show 75. And hopefully, you've enjoyed it in the previous 74. As we always like to tell you, make sure if you're not already active in our community that you join up today at biggerpockets.com

and check us out, and where you can meet a whole lot of other great people like John who are active in the world of real estate. And beyond that, check us out on Facebook, LinkedIn GPlus, and Pinterest, we're on Pinterest. I don't know

quite what we do there, but we're on Pinterest as well. But that's it, guys. Thank you so much for supporting us through 75 shows. We appreciate it. And I will very much look forward to talking to again next week. And hopefully we'll make it all the way to 100. This is Josh Dorkin. Sign it off.

You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited. from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets

Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K. Copywriting is by Calico

content. And editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.w.w.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk. So use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. Bigger Pockets LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential, or other damages arising from

a reliance on information presented in this podcast.