BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 773: Replacing His Income with $70K/Year Cash Flow After a Close Call with Death w/Pasha Maleknia

Episode Date: June 1, 2023

Financial freedom isn’t important until your life flashes before your eyes. When everything could end, thoughts of your partner, children, and family come to mind, and most notably, what you left behind for them. Pasha Maleknia was thrown into a warzone and came within minutes of meeting his end. As he sat, not knowing whether or not he would ever see his wife again, he made a promise to build financial freedom for his family so that if anything happened to him, they would be protected. Pasha kept his promise and is here to share exactly how he got it done. Through chaos, Pasha was given a second chance at building the life he dreamed of, starting a real estate investment portfolio that has grown to a double-digit unit count with close to six figures in expected cash flow. None of what he did was easy, but using his background in coding, systems, and optimizing everything for efficiency, Pasha is building a hands-off real estate empire that will set his whole family financially free. If you’ve struggled to progress with rental properties, do NOT miss out on Pasha’s story. He explains exactly how his “why” forced him to reach financial freedom in only a few years and what he’s doing now to ensure his wealth never stops growing. Don’t wait for it to be too late. Put your life in your hands, and take Pasha’s words to heart. In This Episode We Cover: The near-death experience that forced Pasha to find financial freedom for his family  Building your “income-producing box” that will take care of your family for decades  DIY rehabs and why you DON’T need to know everything before you start investing  Pasha’s killer first rental property and the “surprise” basement that came with it  Using the BRRRR method to quickly multiply your portfolio without much cash needed  How to automate your ENTIRE rental property portfolio so you do nothing  And So Much More! Links from the Show Find an Agent Find a Lender BiggerPockets Youtube Channel BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Pro Membership BiggerPockets Bookstore BiggerPockets Bootcamps BiggerPockets Podcast BiggerPockets Merch BPCON2023 Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Learn About Real Estate, The Housing Market, and Money Management with The BiggerPockets Podcasts Get More Deals Done with The BiggerPockets Investing Tools Find a BiggerPockets Real Estate Meetup in Your Area Hear Dave on the “On the Market” Podcast Subscribe to the “On The Market” YouTube Channel David's BiggerPockets Profile David's Instagram David’s YouTube Channel Work with David Henry's BiggerPockets Profile Henry's Instagram Hear the Latest Episode on Analyzing Real Estate Deals Understand The BRRRR Method in Real Estate – A Beginner’s Guide Books Mentioned in the Show: BRRRR by David Greene The Book on Advanced Tax Strategies by Amanda Han & Matt MacFarland The Book on Estimating Rehab Costs by J Scott Long-Distance Real Estate Investing by David Greene Raising Private Capital by Matt Faircloth Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki Connect with Pasha: Pasha's BiggerPockets Pasha's Instagram Click here to listen to the full episode: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-773 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email [e-mail]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show, 773. For a long time, I just used the, I was trying to steal other people's why, to be honest, which I was just trying to copy other people's why, which was, I want to get to financial freedom, so I don't work anymore. If you see something is going on and you're not motivated for whatever reason, but more importantly, looking to no BSY that is definitely, definitely linked to your core values in life. What's going on, everyone? This is David Green, your host of. of the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast here today with my co-host, H-Wash. Henry, what's going on today?

What's going on, buddy? Glad to be here with you. Yeah, and I'm curious. How many people have called you H-Wash over your life? I said that like it's unique. I'm pretty sure I'm not the first person to say that. Several people have called me H-Wash, but most people call me J-Wash, because I actually used to go by J-R as my name. And so J-Wash was my moniker for quite a while. So you became so famous and well-known, you didn't have to have a cool first name anymore, Henry would do. Fair enough. Total flex. Like, I'm so famous I can have a very boring name like Henry or David. And we could get away with that. I don't have to change it. But yeah, from J-Wash to H-Wash, the Henry Washington story, make sure you follow him online at what the Henry, the Henry Washington. The Henry Washington. You want to see more. We also have a fantastic guest today. This was a true pleasure to interview our guest with Henry, Pasha Maleknia. He has what I call the full

package. This guy has an incredible story that might even make you cry. He has the heart of a lion. He has the brain of a crazy mad scientist. He has tight systems. He has a great approach to real estate. He has a humble attitude. If you could design a real estate investor in a lab, it might be Pasha. And everyone is going to learn something from listening to this person as well to be inspired. Henry, what were some of your favorite parts of today's show? Yeah, Pasha is just a phenomenal human being, but what I love about his story is it, it really truly highlights the fact that this business requires a little bit of education and a lot of action. And he took massive action, you know, after what he'll tell his story. And that massive action, he took, he didn't have

every step of his path laid out before he did it. But he took the action and he learned along the way and he had successes and he had failures. But I really, really want people to see that you've got to take the action, learn from your mistakes so that you don't repeat them, but don't be afraid to move forward without knowing every single step that's going to be laid out ahead of you. Yeah, Pasha tells some stories of mistakes he made. Henry tells some stories about mistakes he made. We didn't have enough time for me to talk about all my mistakes because these podcasts are only about an hour. But none of the mistakes were debilitating towards Pasha's career. They actually just help propel him along further. I thought that was a great point. And Pasha's honest

about his nerdiness and how sometimes being a nerd wanting to be perfect, not make mistakes, can get in the way of success and how he overcame that. So I'm telling you, this is an episode that has something for everybody, whether you're a new investor or an experienced one. Have you ever lost a DSCR deal because the financing just took too long? Red flags popped up late. The lender needed more time. The deal fell apart. Well, our friends at Dominion Financial just launched a program to help prevent that. With their new express rental loan, you can close in 10 days or less. And they still offer their price beat guarantee so you can get great pricing and a timeline you can count on. Fast, simple, reliable. That's Dominion Financial. Check them out at biggerpockets.com slash dominion. That's

biggerpockets.com slash dominion. Managing properties can feel like a full-on circus. You're juggling vendors, tracking payments, chasing approvals across multiple properties, and maybe a few HOAs, all while trying to keep tenants happy and owners confident. One delay can throw everything off, and suddenly your day is all clean up, no progress. That's why hundreds of property managers rely on bill to streamline their finances. Bill for property management lets you add all your properties, assign permissions, pay bills, and receive payments quickly and efficiently without the usual bottlenecks. It syncs with platforms like QuickBooks, Zero, NetSuite, and Sage intact, so your accounting stays aligned. You can automate bulk payments

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legally 100% IRS compliant. That's instant cash flow improvement. Cost segregation guys is the number one firm nationwide, specializing in identifying these faster depreciating assets in your property. They've completed tens of thousands of studies across all 50 states from remote cabins to apartment complexes. So if you own investment property, this is a no-brainer. So visit costsegregationguise.com slash BP for your free proposal and find out how much you could save this tax season. Before we bring in Pasha, today's quick tip is learn what a good deal looks like, then learn how to make a good deal. Pasha talks about that in this interview. He describes exactly

the books he read and what he did to figure out what a deal should look like. And then he went out there and found a property and turned it into the deal that he wasn't able to find without using some creativity. Listen to the episode right before this one, number 772, where we cover how to analyze deals in 2023. If you want to know what a good deal looks like. All right, let's get to Pasha. Pasha Malekneal, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast. How are you today? Where are you? you living and where are you investing? Thank you so much for having me today. I live in Northwest Arkansas and I do invest in Northwest Arkansas. But recently we are also looking into South California as crazy as it sounds. Well, I can help you in South California and Henry is a

Arkansas boy. Is that how we got you here? Henry, was this one of your connections? Yeah, man. Pasha, we've been obviously in the same network here and met. a few, you know, probably about a year or two ago, just through some, some local connections here. And Pasha's a rock star in his own right, man. You guys are like a lion pride over there. And in a previous episode, I said, if Henry was an animal, he would be a lion with his mane. And we just found out that Pasha's name means Alpha Lion, which is probably the coolest name any man could ever have. So we're off to a great start.

I'm a good company right now. I'm liking this. I'll play the Rafiki to your guys as Lion King. Yeah. All right. So to bring our audience up to speed with your portfolio right now, Pasha, you're sitting on about 20 units with the mix of short-term rental, medium-term rental, and long-term rentals. You're cashwilling almost $70,000 a year, maybe a little bit more, as of this morning. I understand you just closed on a dealer you're close to. You started investing

three years ago. That's crazy. And you cannot pick a favorite board game. First question, I got to ask, why can you not pick a favorite board game? That's a very good question, because there are so many of them, and they're all amazing. So at some point, people are like, oh, you invest in real estate. You got to love Monopoly. And I was like, that's okay. But there's so many better games. So right now, right now I'm okay, just sitting back and just enjoy whatever games we play every time.

So are you like a connoisseur of board games? Like, do you play them and rate them on a scale of 1 to 100? And maybe this could be like a website you could start where you have like a YouTube channel where you just rate board games experiences? Maybe, man. Maybe if you have full of retirement. do that. But yeah, we actually get together a lot with a lot of people. I mean, there are some of my friends that have like rooms full of board games. So you're never going to run out of it. Real quick, a follow-up question. You're looking at some places in South California.

Remind us what encouraged you to start looking there. So BP Khan was in San Diego. And my boyfriend I wrote there and was like, wait a minute. Why are, and it was like around like October and November and like it was pretty cold here. And it was like, wait a minute. Why are we like, you know, giving up half of our time, sitting cozy in our home. But you can just come out and you can enjoy the view and it's like 70 degrees. I mean, let's actually bank this a goal and try to move here by the end of the year. So next year, which is going to be this year. So that's the plan.

Henry, what did you think when you got to experience some of that San Diego weather? Oh, man, I was born and raised in California. So I'm very familiar with San Diego weather. And every time we go. So like I've always said, if I was going to move anywhere out of Arkansas and stay somewhere else long term, it would be San Diego. It's just so expensive. And, but here's the catch.

Like, the allergies that are so bad here. Like, my daughter, my youngest daughter gets terrible, like, ear infections. And it's my wife's just like a wreck during allergy season. And like the second we get off a plane in San Diego, it's like magic medicine. It just all clears up. And so now I'm like, I just feel like this bad father for not getting, for him, my husband for not getting my family to someplace where the allergies are killing them. Logically speaking, you'd be a terrible person to not move to San Diego now that we've

can. It's about how I feel. So both of you and anyone listening when you guys want to move to Southern California, let me know. I'll get you connected with our team and we'll help you by there. When I was there for BP Khan, I remember thinking, this is why I can't come here because it's like the Bermuda Triangle. You do not want to leave once you get around there. It'd be a complete productivity killer. You just want to enjoy your life all the time because it's so nice there. And nothing would ever get done. And the next thing you know, you're like, oh, I don't have any money to, I can't live here anymore because I haven't worked for like the last four years because it's so nice. So I guess passive income will allow you to live in San Diego.

Otherwise, you got to be very focused, man, because that place is the hotel, California. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. I just wanted to say, like, we've been monitoring the prices of home. And obviously nobody can, like, predict the market. But the prices of like Southern California homes are dropping so fast. I feel like, we can house hack. We can just go there and, you know, we can run an Airbnb or something. We don't mind doing it.

And we're like, this, this seems doable. So definitely, definitely going to connect with you after the show. That's what we specialize it because it is expensive to live there. That's what it's like. The best locations with the best weather, the best amenities, the best everything, are going to have more demand. More people are going to want to live there. There's only so much supply.

Can't build into the ocean in San Diego. So it's going to have higher prices. So the question needs to be, how can I afford to not live here? instead of, can I afford to live here? Because it's always going to seem unaffordable before you look at it creatively. But that's what we do as investors, right? We look at the world that way. Speaking of investors, especially if you're someone that's only been doing this for three years,

Pasha, your investing journey started at a very specific moment three years ago. In the middle of the night, can you take us back to that moment? Oh, yeah, absolutely. So I used to be like the typical employee, right? like clocking in at 8 a.m. and, you know, clocking out on 5 p.m. Super, super risk averse. So I remember when we wanted to buy our primary residence, we were like, okay, the worst case scenario I was going to happen is going to be like, I've got to get laid off. I mean, if I get laid off. And we better have like, you know,

five, six month of expensive reserve. So that was our like big deposit of money. And that was, you know, betting against the worst case scenario. And that was it. That was basically my life for your years. And it actually changed all in one night. And I can give you a little bit of more context because I think there needs to be a little bit more context. The country that was born and raised, you are required as an adult male to do a military service. Like when you hit a certain age, you have to go and you need to like, you know, spend two years.

And it's usually something stupid. Like you need to go out of post or something like that. But it's going to take two years of your time. So we didn't want to do that. So before I was reaching to that age, I actually got out. And because of this, I never made it back to my country for, I think, nine years by then. And basically, I was just like living here, again, an employee I was working for Walmart. I was helping them with like the data science and coding and stuff like this.

And they actually came up with a new regulation back home, which was like, hey, you can actually come back. and you can visit your families and everything for a couple of months, but you don't have to do any service. You can actually leave again. And we were like, cool. That's awesome. But there was a fine print underneath of it, which was reading, like, as long as it is during peacetime. If it's war, you'll be drafted.

Like, yeah, sure, cool. So I actually flew in, I think it was end of, like, really close to end of December back in 2019. And a couple of days after I arrived, There was a drone attack that killed a top general in military. I don't know if you remember this or not, but that was a big deal back then. It was just a couple of months before COVID. So after that, it just watched all of that away. But it was such a huge deal.

Like, the whole country was ruffled. And my wife is here in U.S. So she calls me and she's like, get the hell out of there. Like, there's going to be war. You don't want to be in the middle of that. I was like, no, I just got back here. Like, you know, after nine years, I want to see my friends. I want to see my families.

We're good. Neither side wants to start a war. And it's, it's going to be, uh, it's going to be all right. And back then actually, uh, Trump was saying, uh, if you guys do any type of anything in line retaliation, there's going to be like a full on war and we are like all in. So the stakes were high, but that was like there's no way, like neither side wants to start a war. There's no way that it's going to happen.

And, uh, I remember like I was sleeping and it was like, uh, at midnight and I see my phone is ringing and ringing. and ringing and like someone is not giving up. So I pick up the phone and it's my wife and she tells me that Pasha Day actually launched a missile attack to an American base. And there's going to be war announced in the next couple of hours. So you have a couple of hours to get out of the country. And I was like, oh, crap. So I looked it up and it was true.

Whenever something like this happens, usually they shut down all the commercial airports, you know, because they don't want to get, you know, caught in the middle of this. So I checked it out. Almost all of the airports were shot. There was one airport that was working, and there were a few flights going out of that. And it was like, okay, I'm going to take my chances. So I took one pair of underpants. I clearly remember that.

I think guys can relate to that. A couple of credit cards, my passport. I didn't even say goodbye to my parents. I just took a cab, and it was more than a couple of hours to the airport. So I actually took a cab to the airport. I got to the airport. I got a flight to a neighbor country. And I was like, okay, cool.

I think I made it. So like I was all sweat and everything, just a backpack and I just get into plane. I turn on my phone and I just check to make sure that everything is good, you know, talk to my wife. And I read a news that shocks me to the core. Same airport at the previous flight, unfortunately, the flight that left was shot down by two missiles and 176 people died right on the spot, which is horrible. This is still one of the biggest catastrophe of our recent history. And I didn't know what to make out of it. I was just shocked.

And on top of that, I was in the same airport and I was going through the same direction that that flight was going. And there wasn't a lot of information back then, but I was thinking there is a very good chance that I wouldn't make out of it. And I clearly remember I had like 8% battery charge or something. I didn't have a lot. And I was like, this could be my last 15 minutes. And if that's the case, what am I going to do with it? So I was like, okay, I need to get myself together. What am I going to do with this?

So I was like, okay, because I was the one who, was handling all of our financial in our home. I was like, okay, I'm going to schedule an email to my wife for two weeks because I didn't want to just send her an email with all of our financial information and everything because I knew she will freak out. So I was like, I'm going to schedule it for two weeks. So if I can't make it through, it's going to be two weeks. It's probably enough if something happens. She'll be pretty upset. But after two weeks, you probably go back and check your emails to check for the bills and stuff like that. And then she will receive this. Obviously, I told her how much I love her. And then I was like, okay,

Here's our, like, credentials to the bank. Here's our credentials to the stock. And these are, like, things like that. To make sure that she has access to it. I didn't want, I wanted to have access to everything I had. Basically, everything we had. And then I scheduled the email. And I remember if, like, just literally a couple of minutes later,

the phone actually was out, out of train. And then I thought to myself and I was like, wait a minute. Like, after 30-something years of, like, life, I, I'm just living behind that just couple of months of expense. And that was it. That was nothing else. And right there, I realized like I needed something else other than me. Because I always assumed that I have infinite amounts of time available to me that I

can trade in my employments with money to, you know, to pay for expenses. But then I realized it was like, I actually needed to have like a box, like another entity, like a box that can generate wealth that doesn't depend on me being a real. around because that's probably the most stupid thing to assume that I'm going to be alive for the rest of the eternity. So I needed to have, I remember I just imagine that there's a box that just generates money regardless of whether I'm there or not. And I remember clearly that I was like, oh my God, the true cost of employment, specifically for corporates is that you will use your prime time. You will use your peak performance for someone's else. And you will basically make someone's else box bigger.

And you do not use that. And the opportunity because it's huge. And you will not use that time to build your own box. And it's all because of the comfortness and, you know, the ease of just that paycheck coming in that you don't want to go out there in the rough and just build your own business, which is definitely going to be hard. But ultimately, that's what you need. And I hated myself. myself so much because deep down I knew that I had the potential to build it, but I never did it. Does that make sense?

So if I was like, I wanted to build my box, I knew I could and I never did because it was just too comfortable with these paychecks that were coming to me. And I was just building and making someone else box bigger. So I was like, I'm going to get through this flight. I'm going to build that box. Whatever it is, I had no idea what that should look like. But whatever it is, I'm going to bring something to life that's going to just generate wealth for my family that even if I'm not around, they're going to just continue enjoying it,

and then it's just going to be passed around. And, well, obviously, I made it through, and the rest is history. So there was something about that being shocked out of your comfort zone. I may die, or may be happening, this predictable nature of life, wake up, go to work, clock in at eight, go home at five, pay my bills, do a good job at work, you know, keep Bob the supervisor happy, That was shaken by this reality that you're now staring at in the face. And something about that brought out this desire that you knew you had inside, this potential that was there that had just been kind of living dormant this whole time.

Absolutely. Like after that, now I had a blazing why I need to do something like this. Like before that, I came across like the concept of fire a couple of times. Like it wasn't like I was completely like not atone to it. It was just it wasn't resonating with me because it was just under. wrong foot. I was just like so blindsided to the fact that like life like I have like everybody has a very fragile body and you could easily die and nobody has promised you your next minute. But you need to have are you are you comfortable with not living the box for your family or the

ones that you love? Then I was not. And it it killed me that I never saw that that it was all in front of me. You know, a lot of people don't get, they don't get time after their way. up call. And what I mean by that is you might get a bad diagnosis, right? Or you might get some bad news. And typically a lot of times it doesn't come with a lot of time afterwards. You were fortunate enough to have your wake up call when you potentially had some time. And you immediately started acting on it. And I just, you know, I want to commend you for that because Again, like a lot of people go through these things and they, you know, they think, oh, if I can only get through this, I'll, I'll be the best version I can ever be, right?

So how did you, like, what did action after you had that epiphany look like? Did you know, you can go on vacation and actually earn money? Because while you're out exploring new horizons, your home is sitting there, dark, silent, and wildly underemployed. And it could be making you extra cash. And Airbnb makes that possible with something called the co-host network. If you're away for a while or you live far from your place, you can hire a vetted local co-host with real hosting experience to help take care of everything.

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That includes places renters are already searching, like Realtor.com, Apartments.com, redfin, and more. No copying and pasting. No juggling multiple platforms, just one listing that shows up everywhere. If getting rentals organized and filled fast is on the list this year, start with Avail. Sign up for free at Avail.co.co. slash Bigger Pockets. That's A-V-A-I-L-C-O-Bigger Pockets. Oh, boy. I remember, Henry, when I got off that plane, It might sound a little bit cheesy, but that's true. Like, when I got off that plane, I was a different person. I was like, I'm going to take this and I'm going to run with it.

So I started looking around. Like, I didn't even know what it was called. And then I realized it's called passive income. And I was so far away from this world. Like, I'm a coder in core. Like, I'm a nerd. I'm a geek. Whatever you want to call it.

It was such a, such a distant world to me. But when I started looking it up, but I was working in real. State Department. So I was kind of in that world, but not really. So when I started looking it up at different venues and everything, I actually came across a good friend of mine. His name is also Brandon, not Burd Brandon, but Brandon is also a great friend of mine. And he actually introduced me to Burr. And I was like, what is BRRR? And I was like, no, no, no. You say it bear. You don't just like read it like that. So, oh, okay. So he added me to a Facebook group. It was called like bigger pockets fans.

And I was like, like are these? At first I thought it was like a closing company or something. And then I was like, okay, what is bigger pockets that has like bigger pockets fans? And I looked it up and I was like, oh my God, this is so amazing. So like I ordered like, I don't know, you can see like half of them here. Like I ordered like, I think 20 bucks from bigger pockets store. And I was like, I'm going to read through every single one of these. And I probably picked the worst first book to read.

by the way, which book do you guys think is the worst first book to start with. I just want to know your opinion before tell you what that was. Of the bigger pockets books? Yes. Burr would be a little confusing if you didn't know anything about real estate investing at all. Long distance real estate investing, basically both the books I wrote, I can see not super great for beginners. What do you think, Henry? Would you, raising private capital? That's a very good guess. That's a very good guess. I started with advanced tax strategies. And then I started reading how to calculate how to estimate rehab costs by J. Sky.

And I remember I was reading it and it was like, okay, there are three, like five different type of roofs. I have no idea how to use that. But that's okay. I'm just going to fight. I just want to go through this. I want to make sure that I know everything. And but when I actually, David, it's funny that you mentioned this because when I actually

read your book, then it was like, oh, now it makes sense to me. Like, now I realize what it, what needs to be done. Now I realize how I can use these things that I read somehow. You had a framework to put the information that was floating around in your head in, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. But like, just to give you like an idea, like how much something like this can change,

and I really want people to this, like, I really want people to use this if they can, so they don't have to be in the same situation that I was. But I actually read, reached that, poor dad before all of these feelings. And I remember it was such a boring book to me. It was, I was like, who cares you were in like, you know, you were a kid and you were in retail. So just get me to the point. Like, that was in a completely different type of mindset, right?

And then after this time, I was like, oh, I think there was a book that was like talking about this too. And I just like listen to this like over and over and over like. I think I'd listen to it like three times. And I think it all goes back to like the why and, and, uh, and, uh, and, um, and, and, um, why you need to do this. Well, your mind was being transformed, basically. Like, when I hear your story, I get this image of a scientist looking at a microscope.

You're going and work every day. You're coding. You are super zoomed in on very tiny details that become your entire world. And you spend your entire eight-hour day in the microscope. You forget that there's stuff happening around you. You forget that there's someone eating a sandwich next to you and you can smell. You just don't notice any of that. And that experience that you had, that life or death type of an experience pulled you out of the microscope and you're like, there's a whole world around me.

And I haven't even been thinking about it because it's just so comfortable to look down my scope here. And I really think a lot of people either can relate to that or waiting to have that moment in their own life. It could be an unexpected pregnancy that you're, oh, my goodness, like life just got serious, right? Or you fall in love and you decide you want to get married or a family member gets sick. Like, it could be you just lose your job. You thought you had a great job. We've had guests on before who were perfectly content with where they were until they lost it. And it shook them up and it forced them to look at things differently.

And they all come back and say, I'm so glad I did it. This is such a better way to make a living. I wanted to ask you. So basically, like going back to where you were, you make it into the U.S. safely. You are all in on using real estate investing to generate wealth. You get pulled into our world. You understand the BRRRR method. And the fashion brand bigger pockets becomes your preferred type of clothing.

and you're listening to these podcasts, you're sucked into the world that Henry and I live in. Walk us through your first deal. How did you find it? And what was it? Absolutely. So first of all, it was really hard to do it because everybody around me were telling me that like, don't do it. Like I had friends actually stopping by like at 10 p.m. And they're like, I couldn't stop thinking about like saving you.

Don't do it. And I told them, I don't care. I just need to build a box. Like even if it's the worst time to build the box, I want to build a box. And I think you should do it too. But then I think there was a duplex coming up. Henry's familiar with that neighborhood. It's actually near downtown Bentonville, an area that actually got a lot of attention.

And it was a duplex coming up and it was severely under market value based on the square foot price. It came at like 11 p.m. And we put an offer on it at 7.30 a.m. And we put it on a contract for $3,000 more. without looking at it. And my agent was like, the only thing that the seller agent says she needs is that they just want to sell it as is. And I was like, I think it's good.

I'm not sure yet. Based on theory, I think that that sounds like a good deal. So yes, let's do it. So we bought it for $248,000. And I haven't even seen inside the house. So it was like a big moment for us. And when there was inspection, there was like a five days inspection period or something. And then we walked with the inspector inside the house.

it looked okay people were living in there it was generating like $800 one part and like another part was the owner so even if we were renting it with that rate it wouldn't be even close to the 1% rule but again I wanted to build the box right so we looked at everything like definitely needed like some work and I remember like one of the bathrooms didn't have a toilet and it was freaking out I called I called one of my friends that had a real real, you know, real estate and it was like, dude, it doesn't have a, it doesn't have a toilet. And it was like, it's 110 bucks from Lowe's. Don't worry. You're going to survive that. It was, okay, good, good to know that. So we were really like, you know, going like, but what I want to say is like, we were going forward. There was no good coming back, you know.

And it was like, just how can I make sense of it as we go forward? And then we looked at everything, dude. It was like 2,800 square foot. So it was roughly about like $90 a square foot, which is pretty good price for that. yet. At then it was like $130.30. And then there was like a pantry door shape that I opened. And I saw the best thing ever, which is stairs going down. And we went down and it was like a full finished basement with additional bathroom that was not even included in the listing. It wasn't even included in the county website. Now, all of a sudden, we were looking at a 3,800 square foot home in downtown

on Bentonville for $248,000. And it was like, if, if somebody wants to send me a sign, I think this is it. Like, if it's just all over the place, so I like, I loved. And like, the seller was like, if you want like, you know, we can, like, you know, stay, can we stay here for like, you know, a couple of days more? I was like, whatever you want to do. I just need to close on it. And actually, they actually moved out.

my wife and I were like, okay, we're going to renovate it ourselves, right, as the first thing. And we watched so many videos. We definitely, you know, geek the hell out of it. We watched five videos about how to wash your paintbrush, something like that. And then we started painting the walls. We did the flooring ourselves, which I think was the biggest achievement of that renovation was that our marriage survived. I think that was the biggest thing. I was just going to say, like, if you guys didn't think Pasha was brave for having an

epiphany and then acting on it, diving into this unknown world of real estate, diving into it so much so that he didn't even realize that not having a toilet was only a couple hundred hundred dollar fix. That is the epitome of bravery. Some might call it stupidity, but I'm going to call it bravery. If you didn't think that was brave enough, he then decided to test his marriage by by doing a DIY renovation on the first one. You were expecting that HGTV experience where your wife's so happy and she's like,

oh my God, look, I did the paint. And you're like, oh, my gosh, that's so good, babe. And the two of you are bonding with this, like, pizza, cute pizza box in the background is. You're like wiping paint on each other's face by egg. Oh, absolutely that. Pasha, where did you put the brush? That was a $20 brush. Oh, I'm sorry, but you're not using the right form.

The video showed elbow up first. Like, you're getting your Mr. Miyagi on trying to tell them how to paint the fence. Yeah, that's exactly. Real estate is because probably caused more unsolved murders than anything else when it just comes to these. Like, how high stress levels can get in. Like, yeah, that's a great example. So was there a point there that you realize, like, we're not doing this anymore or did it get better? Right after that.

We just, we just renovated one side of the duplex. They're like, okay, good lesson learned. We're not going to do it anymore. We're going to hire somebody to do it. This is stupid. Like, we can't, we can't just do it ourselves. I had a very, I had a very similar story when I, we decided to paint our kitchen cabinets together for the first time because I didn't want to spend the two grand or whatever

it was to paint the cabinets. It took us like three weekends. We were fighting about it. I finally called the painter. The painter had them done in like two hours with the spray gun. And I was like, never again. will I do anything? I've had the same moment. I love it. That is, I mean, it's so, so true. I just, I hear people say all the time, why pay someone

if you can do it? And they just, they're revealing that they do not understand how learning curves work. That is a two-hour job for a painter with experience and skill and tools and resources. That is a three-week job for the person. Now, here's the good news. After you get done doing it the first time, the next time it won't be three weeks. Maybe it'll be one week. But then it's going to be a long time before you get to where you can do it. two hours, right? And meanwhile, you haven't made any money buying deals or doing the thing that you're good at. So I agree 100%. Like sometimes you have to get in there and try it your own way. Here's you jujitsu analogy for the day. Everybody always shows up at jujitsu class and they

hear the instructor showing them the technical way to do it. And it's just a pain in the butt, to be frank. Like it's puts you in a position where you're a little bit uncomfortable. You're having to like a pose for lack of a better word that your body doesn't like. You're like, now I can just do this. This will work just fine. And then a lot of people just have to keep trying and trying and trying until they finally, like, they're tired of getting beat up by a guy that's 110 pounds. And they go, what do I have to do? And at that point, now the instruction you've been giving clicks and it makes sense. Sometimes we got to go through that in life where you have to just get in there and suck at it. Be very frustrated, feel a lot of pain. And you're like, all right,

now I will listen to the advice that the experience people were telling you from the very beginning. So thank you, Pasha, for sharing that story. Because we all have our own little stubborn cabinet painter inside. And sometimes we just got to let that guy have his moment. I would say, though, like, when you do something yourself, you do, like, you gain a little bit of a knowledge to be dangerous enough so that you can, like, call out if somebody is, like, not doing a job right. Like, I mean, that part of it.

Because, again, I was completely, like, coming from a different world to this. But, but, like, for example, now that I have, like, my flooring guys, like, oh, you get the door jabs right, right? Like, using those words, just show, like, you know, you know a little bit of other. like where are the hardest spot to look at and they're just, they're like, oh, okay, like, this guy probably knows this stuff. So we can't just like overcharge it. All right, Pasha. So, so you, you learn from sweat equity. You put some time in there. Your marriage survived. This. Congratulations on that, man. Hats off to you. We don't need any

more divorces in this country. You're now sitting on a property that has been rehabed and has an ARV of $600,000. Is that correct? Correct. So we actually rented it and then we refinanced it. The first time it came back at 420. It was right after we added those things. And then we refinanced it again when the prices went up. And it was like, you know, about $600,000. So we were able to luck it down for like 2.75, I think, for 30 years fixed, which is. What kind of loan did you use to buy it originally?

What was the conventional loan? So the very, my very first purchase was like using a conventional loan to buy it and using a conventional loan to refinance it. And we'd be just like literally just put like 20% down to remember the six months cost of living expense. Like we were going all in. Now you're like there's definitely some whiff of craziness to it. I totally agree with you. But we actually use that money to put down. And then I use the method that I call like negative interest rates for the renovation.

So the $60,000 will be spent on the renovation. was primarily coming out of our basically playing with the credit card world. So utilizing credit cards. And again, just a disclaimer, this is one of those things that you really want to be good at. And if you're not disciplined, it's going to come back and it's going to like hit you 10 times fold. But we basically just open credit cards with like 0% interest rate, with sign up bonuses. And we were just using that. we were racking the points, and at the same time, we were not basically using any money of ours.

And when we were done and when we refinanced it, we got the money back to pay off the credit costs, which we did. And we actually put it into like a saving account. And on 11 months, we paid all of those like one months before it was going on. But just long and a story short, I looked into how much money I had and I knew that I wanted it to work. So we looked into all different options that we could use, different loans that were available to us. And then we just use those. Totally.

You talk about the credit cards. I'm glad you made the caveat because absolutely, if you don't have the discipline, that you can end up taking what is 0% interest and turning it into 24% interest very fast. But I did a very similar thing. I used my 0% interest credit cards to pay for my first marketing campaign to get my first deal. So I went all in it all in there as well. So you mentioned you bought it with the conventional. You refied it with a conventional.

But then it sounds like you learned more about different strategies. So what other strategies are you using or have you used to continue building our portfolio? Yeah, absolutely. So right after we were done with the renovation of this duplex, it's just a side note, one of the things that we do, whenever we want to start a project right now as part of our step-by-step system, is that we introduce ourselves to all the neighbors around the home. We give them our phone number, contact, and we tell them, hey, we are going through a renovation for this property. if the noises are high or something, you have our phone number, you can reach out to us directly. Which, by the way, it is great because you've got a lot of set of eyes on your property. So there was a lady that was our neighbor that came to us.

And she was like, well, we want to sell this property that we have. Do you want to take a look at it and maybe buy it? And by then I actually had finished, like, you know, how to raise capital book and all of that. I was like, yeah, I do. And we talked to her. about like seller financing. Unfortunately, it wasn't the case for her. But then I knew that I could use that.

And then I used construction loans, which is basically when banks come over, take a look at the property, and they loan you the money based on ARV, not based on your purchase price. So we basically put together the plan that we had. It was a beautiful three bedroom, one bathroom that needed a lot of work. And our plan was to turn that into five bedroom, two bathrooms. and we were actually adding a score footage to the home. So the ARV was higher.

The bank looked at it in and they were like, you seem like you know what you're doing. So we're going to go with it. They lend us the money. They lend us the construction money. And same thing. When we were done, we basically refinance it again, get the cash back.

And we actually turned that into an Airbnb. So I think it's like Brar, Denver. but it's been that property is also working absolutely amazing. Thank God. I like, I really, really like with the Burr method when people add square footage to the home, especially if it's a small home. It's a 3,000 square foot house, adding more square footage has diminishing returns. But this doesn't get talked about enough because for a long time when we first started

teaching Burr, it was just buy an ugly house, make it pretty or pull your money out. It was simple. And then as more people learned about it, more people got into real estate investing. competition increased, became harder and harder to find those deals that just needed a facelift or just needed the cabinets to be painted where you could spend $2,000 on a painter and increase the value by $25,000. You had to get a little more tricky. And now we're at the point where it's much better to go find a 1,200 square foot house

in a neighborhood full of 2,200 square foot homes, literally make it bigger, makes it very, very, very difficult for the appraiser to give you the bad appraisal. You just have to have a little bit more construction knowledge. You have to have a little more creativity. you have to have a little bit more understanding of how the permit process works with cities. It's definitely not as fun, but is very profitable. So I love hearing that. And when you talked about your surprise basement, that just gets me going, man.

I don't love anything more. It's better than reaching into your coat pocket and finding a $100 bill that you forgot about. When you see that there's, oh, there's space that nobody used. It's waiting. It's like just this awesome present that the universe has handed you. I look for that more than it's so much that I'll give everyone here a quick tip. When you're looking at pictures on Zillow or Redfin or wherever you look, I don't click on the right arrow that takes me from the beginning of the house, like the front of the house, then the front door and then the entryway, then the kitchen. I click on the left arrow.

I want to see the backyard and I want to see all the ugly pictures. The realtor wants the normal person to see last. That's where I see, oh, look, they have framing, but no drywall. It's not finished. Oh, my gosh, they have electrical outlets already run. They have plumbing and drainage that's already run. And that's where those pictures are going to be. I almost don't even look at the house unless I see that.

Do either of you guys have a similar experience when you're analyzing properties? You look for the same thing? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. That's you said it right 100%. I love looking for it. And so right along with this, when I'm browsing properties, the first thing I'm looking for, I love seeing houses that have sun rooms, that have formal dining rooms or formal living rooms.

And so what I'm looking for, especially sunrooms that aren't heated and cooled, like you can see them, but they're not included in the heated and cooled square footage. Because then I can take, and if it's already, if it's already under roof and under and over the foundation, but it's just not heated and cooled, I just have to figure out a way to get a run from the HVAC in there. And then I can put flooring and insulation in the walls. And boom, I've added heated and cooled square footage without having to knock down exterior walls and build additions. And so you can find, you can find value. I like the formal living and dinings because you can take most people don't use them anymore. And you can take those and easily convert them into bedrooms or bedrooms and bathrooms. And it doesn't cost a ton.

Again, you're not adding square footage, but you're adding value by adding bedrooms and potentially bathrooms. So what you can look for is when you're browsing, look for homes that have larger square footage footprints. than the bedroom and bathroom count would indicate, right? If you see a three, two, 1,500 square feet, that's about normal. But if you see a three bed, two bath with 2,200 square feet, 3,000 square feet, now you know there's some extra space in there that you can add value to under roof. That's a great, great point. That's what we mean when we say don't find a great deal, make a great deal.

Because if it could be found, someone who has already found it, I promise you. But if it could be made, only the specific people listening to podcasts like this that have the competitive advantage, we'll see those angles. You can learn all of those strategies that Henry just said and more in the Burbook that Pasha mentioned there by a bill at biggerpockets.com slash burr. All right. So Pasha, you have just come in and taken the world by storm here. You're doing great. You're making mistakes, but they're good mistakes. You're adding a lot of value. I mean, usually people screw up on their first couple deals, but you are able to avoid that. Let's hear about what your units are cash flowing for. Like start in 2020 and then add every single year to where you're at now. The first year, we were like minus $1,200, if you will, then the next, like, when we eased into the next year, that's where we started running this Airbnb, and that's where we actually started doing the, like, you know, getting renters for our units. So now we were going back about like now positive $2,500-ish per month. And then we basically just went to the next level, which was now we wanted to buy like our next

properties, which was a triplex. And you're absolutely right. They were all on market deals, a couple of deals that we bought after that. It was just there. We looked into it and we realized, okay, there's like a good potential to add value here. We converted a lot of garages. And then again, we added cash flow to it as we were going forward. So we were making about like 24%. And then after that, we went basically from two units first year to four units. next year and then we went to 11 units after that, additional units, I mean. So by then we were like about 17, 18 units. And then we added another four units to the portfolio.

So we just kept adding cash flow to what we've been making. And now we are like roughly about like $55, $5,600 like pure cash flow that is coming to that. And that was at the end of 2022? By end of 2022, I think we were close to like, I think, $6,800, $7,000, if I'm not mistaken. But the other units that I'm actually having right now in 2023, because they're vacant and they're basically consuming my cash flow, it actually went down to $5,800. We believe after they're done, we need to be probably going to go back to like probably $75,000, $8,000 a month.

That's the number that we were projecting. that include the one you closed on or did you close on one today? Man, I wish I was able to tell you I closed on it today. Stupid title company didn't get the payoff amount. So it was actually pushed back. Stupid title companies, man. I'm so done with them. Like, but it's, it is.

But like, it's a huge spread. We are not. So I don't know if it's answered to your question or not. The quick answer is no. those deals that are we are closing right now, especially because of the interest rate, we are kind of changing our strategy a little bit, and we are basically going after homes that are cash flowing to hold, and those homes that are not cash flowing, but we can sell, we capture the equity, and then for the other homes that we like to hold, but they're like just right at the edge of

cash flow positive negative, we use that money to lower down the loan amounts that we're getting to make them cash flow positive. And then basically we open a line of credit so that they have access to that cash, but we basically park it inside those homes to make the cash flow work sort of, if that makes sense. Because we immediately realized we were giving up on a lot of deals just because they were not cash flow positive. Because the deal flow was working. We were seeing a lot of deals, but they were like, wait a minute, we can wholesale these deals

or we can actually sell these deals. We can flip them. Awesome. what I know about Pasha is so when he said he was a nerd, I already knew that. Because Pasha, every time I would meet up with Pasha, he would talk to me about some new bot or program that he was running in the background of something that was scraping somebody's data and bringing him all this super magic information and helping him to buy deals or manage things.

And a lot of it, even me being a data and a techie guy, would, go over my head, but Pasha's just super duper smart like that. But now you've actually taken this technology passion you have and you've married it to real estate, right? And so talk to us a little bit about how you've created systems and automation through your, through your, your nerdy background. So, yeah, as, as you mentioned, like, you know, I, in nature, you can lock me in a room and you can just put food at the door and it will give you code.

It's, I just love doing it. So we were like, okay, what are the things that we're doing? Step back and see if we can automate it and if we can systematize it. And better than that, if we can use a software to do that. So when it comes to property management and asset management for us, we first hired property managers and it didn't work very well for us because we looked into P&L that we were getting a huge chunk of our basically gross revenue. And at the same time, we didn't feel like.

we were getting the result that we wanted. But we learned a lesson from the first flip, so we didn't want to manage the properties ourselves either. And then I was like, okay, what if I kind of build a system around property management so that I kind of like control the input, process and output and see if that works before before going all in and just writing a check and giving it to the property managers? Nothing against them. I just didn't feel like that's That's the way I wanted it. So we used softwares to collect money to process the maintenance tickets. And I was like, well, I don't have to be involved in any part of this.

I can just basically hire a virtual assistant that will look into that and they will just connect, you know, the problem to the vendor. And then after we did all of this, it was like, well, why don't it just automate the rest of it? So we added like, you know, different gadgets of like leak detectors is one of them that really helped us a lot. So right now all of my rentals actually have these like, you can buy them for like eight bucks. That whenever there's water, it actually like beeps like a smoke detector. So we placed it all over. And so far it has saved us from three floods. Works really well.

And it's basically just that as a system. And then we realized like we can also use. use software to automate that piece as well. So basically, whenever we have a flips or something like this, we put, because the flips are a little bit different than rentals, because rentals, you have people in there. They will see it. They will fix it.

Flips, you're not there. So if something bad happens, like if there is a flood damage, it can cost you $8,000, $9,000. It can easily eat through all the profits that you were looking into making, the good portion of it. So I think I haven't seen the solution out there, but I'm pretty sure somebody can listen to this and build it. Or I can just try to share the code or make it a little bit more friendly.

But basically, there are leak detectors that connect to the Wi-Fi. And whenever there is water, there's an API handle that they will just push to the server. So you'd be able to basically have an app that connects to it. And you know whenever there is water in, like, let's say, unit one. And then there are devices that can, like, shut off and open water valves that you can just put right into the water that's coming to your house. And basically, it's just going to be simple as whenever there is water detected, if it is like in an hour that nobody is working there,

then just shut off the main valve, send me an email. So I know what's going on. I can sit a contractor next day. So, you know, it doesn't like, you know, really damage the property that you've been working on because that happens a lot. When it comes to building a system, do you have a system to build systems? Is there a process that you follow if you have to build it? What can you tell us a little bit about? that. Yeah, absolutely. So, man, I can talk hours for a little bit about systems, but

basically systems are like, in my opinion, input, process, output, right? And they're like, little piece of Legos that you can just put together. Like the output from the first system can feed into the input to the second system and can go on. And you can actually build this together to kind of customize it to the need that you want. However, one of the things that I noticed, a lot of people forget to do is that they just think that's it. Like input process output is going to be your system. And then they just build it. It works.

And then they just back up. And then they think that it's going to work for ever, happily ever after, that system's going to be amazing for the rest of the time. Can you give us an example of an input process output specifically with real estate? For example, one of the things that we've been doing is making sure that, you know, we are renting our properties correctly, right? You want to rent it at the right price range, and you want to make sure that your vacancy is low, so basically your revenue is higher, right?

So as I mentioned, we don't use property managers, and we have a rule that I shouldn't do anything other than building a system for my system to manage the properties. So one of the things that we had was like, what if I have a system that, walks a person through how to set up a listing, put it on the market, do the advertisement, do the application process, and be done with it, basically. So we built that learning material. It's called knowledge base. I don't get into much detail of it.

But basically, that system is, we have a property. I just tell my VA, this is the listing. Just go, like, set it up. And if everything works fine, we already have the pictures, the process is basically putting it on the market, on Zillow, Facebook, you know, different places. And output is having that place rented by a decent renter. Now, the KPI, and it's been working great so far. Like, I'm so proud of it.

So far, like, knock on wood, the non-flip ones on average is like five days vacancy. But the KPI here will be if, the vacancy of the property went higher, what is this system going to do again? So, for example, in this case, is if our vacancy goes after 10 days, what did we do wrong? So it needs to go back to the process. Maybe it's pricing. Maybe it's not advertised correctly. Maybe it's the time difference. Whatever it is, me as a business owner need to design a system, feedback system that can come back and update the process so that this doesn't happen again. Hopefully, I answer. your question didn't make you. Pasha, this has been awesome, man. This I think is one of our,

the better shows that we've done. You have an amazing story. You have a great approach to real estate. You have a voracious appetite to learn. You have the heart of an alpha lion at getting out there and getting things done. And you can build systems. You are the complete package. We are talking about the LeBron James, the Tracy McGrady, the Paul George, you've got it all. And you are doing great with only three years into your investing career. So we are definitely going to have you back on again, particularly to hear more about systems and how other investors that love real estate, but probably don't love the chaos, the mistakes, the time consumption, the stress that comes from not having systems and trying to operate without a tight, clean approach

can really benefit from what you're doing. So thank you very much. Any last words before we get you out of here? The only thing that I'm going to say is if you, it's just like a piece of advice, I would say that if someone is listening to this and they are still, thinking that, you know, I don't want to start. I don't want to do it. That's absolutely fine. I would just say, go back and visit your why. Because for a long time, I just used the, I was trying to steal other people's why, to be

honest, which I was just trying to copy other people's why, which was, I want to get to financial freedom, so I don't work anymore. It wasn't my, I love my job. I still work for Walmart because I love it. I love coding. I love building system. I love automating stuff. It was just not resonating with me.

So it wasn't, it wasn't. like hot enough to, you know, keep me standing, keep me, you know, up during the night to think about how I can do this better. It was just not my why. And what I would recommend is if you see something is going on and you're not motivated for whatever reason, one, look into psychological problems. I mean, maybe you have ADHD or something like that. But more importantly, look into no BSY that is definitely, definitely linked to your core value. in your life. And if you can get that part right, like you need to fight yourself. It's not an easy thing to come up with a very good why. And at least it wasn't for me. And you need to do that.

And when you have your why right, everything else falls into place because you want to do it and you will find a way because you know why you're doing it. So you will just keep going. You will just find a ways. You just create new ways. Nothing can really stop you if you know why you're moving. That is awesome. Don't copy someone else's why you got to find your own. why. You can copy their systems. You can copy their approach. You can copy the knowledge that are in their books. You can copy everything, but the why. Henry, how about you? Anything you want to add before we go? Absolutely. And what I want to say is you absolutely can copy their systems because I am a user of some of Pasha's systems on managing properties. And so when we have Pasha back

guys, you're going to want to tune in. He's going to, he literally set a goal this year to never have to go to one of his rental properties for anything. And I was like, well, that sounds interesting. And so we've been implementing that as well. So he's very good at building systems and they work. Thank you. I appreciate it. Pasha, thank you very much. We will have you back. If people want to find out more about you, where can they go? I'm actually on Instagram right now, techie real estate, T-E-C-H-I-E, Real Estate, All-One Word. And thank you guys so much for having me on the show. Tell me you're a nerd without saying the word nerd. Techie real estate. I love it, man. That's perfect. Good thing that you're at Alpha Lion to balance out that nerdiness, man.

Great job. It was great to meet you, Pasha. Thank you so much, sir. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Henry. Thank you, buddy. This is David Green for Henry the Lion King, Washington. Signing out. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

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