BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 787: 5 All-Time Favorite Tips For Financial Independence w/Brandon Turner

Episode Date: July 4, 2023

Brandon Turner achieved financial independence in his late 20s. For most people, this would be the end of working, investing, or trying to better themselves. But for Brandon, this was only the start. Now a decade later, Brandon is managing close to one billion dollars in real estate, running numerous companies, and dedicating his efforts to eradicating human trafficking while simultaneously setting millions of Americans financially free. Brandon has, in almost every way, won the game of life, and he has five crucial tips to share with us today. Back in the Sea Shed are long-time co-hosts Brandon and David as they travel back in time and revisit the five most important lessons learned on this podcast. These lessons aren’t just crucial in achieving financial independence. When taken to heart and implemented correctly, they will allow you to level up your life, relationships, friendships, and businesses. They will also set you apart from the 99% of people who want success but refuse to go out and get it. From lessons about spilled sewage to podcast recordings gone wrong, designing the life you want to live, and taking ownership when everything starts falling apart, this is an episode you cannot afford to miss. If you want to achieve financial freedom, start living your dream life, and live a life like Brandon, you’ll have to tune in. In This Episode We Cover: The five most important lessons for financial freedom and building a better life Knowing what you want (and going after it) even when fear takes over Pushing past resistance and why pros show up while amateurs sleep in The “crystal clear criteria” that makes buying real estate easier than ever before Building your “vivid vision” and designing a life that you would love to live  Thinking five steps ahead and how future-planning will make you rich  And So Much More! Links from the Show Find an Agent Find a Lender BiggerPockets Youtube Channel BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Pro Membership BiggerPockets Bookstore BiggerPockets Bootcamps BiggerPockets Podcast BiggerPockets Merch BPCON2023 Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Learn About Real Estate, The Housing Market, and Money Management with The BiggerPockets Podcasts Get More Deals Done with The BiggerPockets Investing Tools Find a BiggerPockets Real Estate Meetup in Your Area David's BiggerPockets Profile David's Instagram David’s YouTube Channel Work with David BiggerPockets Podcast 447 with Cameron Herald (Vivid Vision) BiggerPockets Podcast 443 with Jim Kwik BiggerPockets Podcast 365 with Jocko Willink BiggerPockets Podcast 457 with Patrick Bet-David BiggerPockets Podcast 217 with Perry Marshall BiggerPockets Podcast 461 with Steven Pressfield Books Mentioned in the Show: The Intention Journal by Brandon Turner  Multifamily Millionaire Volume I by Brandon Turner & Brian Murray The One Thing by Gary Keller Connect with Brandon: Brandon's BiggerPockets Profile Brandon's Instagram Brandon's Podcast Brandon's TikTok Brandon's Website Click here to listen to the full episode: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-787 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email [e-mail]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 787. You know, there's a quote Gary Keller uses in the millionaire real estate agent, and it says that financial freedom is the unearned income to finance your life's mission without having to work. And I'm a big fan of that idea, right? Like I often say financial freedom is doing what you want, where you want, when you want, how you want it with whoever you. But that can lead to slavery.

That can leave the slavery. But instead, the idea that the unearned income, meaning like money's coming in despite the hours you work, to finance your life mission without having to work. So what is your, and if you don't have a life mission, maybe that's a good place to start. Why are you here? What are you doing this for? Otherwise, you end up making a lot of money and not having any freedom. What's going on, everyone?

It's David Green, your host of the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast here today with another episode with Brandon Turner. Today's show, we talk about the five podcasts that had the biggest impact on both of us, the lessons that we learned, how they helped them with our business, and how they share. shaped our views on life. This is a wild ride full of tons of information. If you've never heard Brandon talk, you want to buckle your seatbelt because the guy goes a million miles an hour and I've been told that I can do the same thing. We'll be coming to you live from Hawaii where we had this conversation that range from Jocka Willink to artificial intelligence to holding toilets full of feces on purpose to save a couple bucks in real estate. It's a blast and I'm sure you're going

to love it. So if you are struggling with this very tough real estate market and you're thinking about giving up, don't. We've been through changes like this before. There's an adjusting period. What worked yesterday isn't working today as rates have gone up, but prices have not come down. But that is okay. There's still ways to win in today's market. And in today's show, we are trying to mold your mind so you can see some of the same angles that Brandon and I see that help us succeed in life, in business, and with finances. All right, let's get into it. Most investors spend all their time talking about their high-level returns. But that's not the number that actually matters.

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Get a quote in minutes at biggerpockets.com slash landlord insurance. Steadily, landlord insurance designed for the modern investor. I know Eric, who's a wonderful, amazing, good-looking producer for the show. Hi, Eric. He pitched me on this idea of the five things, right? And he's like, because they're all kind of revolving around this idea of financial freedom. And I think being that this episode is coming out on the 4th of July, I think all five lessons should be somewhere in the vicinity of freedom. What do you think?

Yeah. Well, that's what we do, right? It's also for some form of freedom, whether it's freedom from things that enslave you, freedom from poverty, freedom from not hitting your potential in life, freedom from bad relationships, freedom from not hitting your potential. I mean, all knowledge when used correctly should be for the purpose of some type of freedom. Wouldn't you agree? I would love to know I'm going to take over the host seat and ask you a question. How do you define financial freedom? We made it about three minutes into this thing before we got there, didn't we? How do you define financial freedom, man? To me, financial freedom is not having to sell out your values in order to pay the bills. Oh, not having to sell your values in order to pay your bills.

So if you're working at a company that you don't feel good about working or you don't like the things that they're doing, but you have to do to make the bills, there's people that can't get around that. I don't criticize someone like that. In fact, most of the time the world has been spinning, that's where human beings found themselves. Survival is much more difficult than for most of the time the world's been around than what it is for us. We're very, very privileged to live in a time where we don't spend very much time. worrying about surviving. I mean, we spend more time at least me worrying about not eating too much versus not having enough to eat, which is a very unusual thing for human being. We have food everywhere that's like screaming, come eat me. Where for most of the time, the world's been around, it's been,

what am I going to eat? That's all you could think about. Financial freedom wasn't a thing. So here's a deep thought. Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to probably, this is going to sound down, but interesting enough, we have the freedom to eat whatever we want and then we get overweight and unhealthy and we end up diner of a slave. So, Yeah, freedom actually leads to slavery, right, at a certain point. And there's an interesting dichotomy there between freedom and slavery or misery. Yeah, that's exactly right. Speaking of the word dichotomy, which is a jaco-willink word, he actually has a concept of discipline equals freedom. So if you are not disciplined enough to handle the freedom that you get,

it will absolutely lead to enslavement. You know, there's a quote Gary Keller uses in the millionaire real estate agent. And it's, says that financial freedom is the unearned income to finance your life's mission without having to work. And I'm a big fan of that idea, right? Like I often say financial freedom is doing what you want, where you want, when you want, how you want, with whoever you want. But that can lead to slavery. That can lead to slavery. But instead, the idea that the unearned income, meaning like money's coming in despite the hours you work to finance your life mission. Yeah. Without having to work. So what is your, and if you don't have a life mission,

maybe that's a good place to start. Like, why are you here? What are you doing this? for otherwise you end up making a lot of money and not having any freedom which is how you end up which is how you end up because you start looking through things like food for comfort or uh i mean gratuitous hedonism for comfort right there's a lot of things out there when you don't have a purpose and you don't know what you're going for what you're going to that's when the billboards on the side of the freeway they say pull over here become much more enticing if you don't have the the end destination in mind ooh look at that that was an analogy yeah you still do those every once in a while we do them I mean, I don't like to go overboard with it.

I like to be known for more than just analogies. Unfortunately, I don't think I've been able to pull that off. Not like you, who's known for many, many, many things. No, I'm going for one thing, acronyms. Making me look at you, you are good with acronyms. You are great. In fact, my entire Burr book and the salary that's provided me, thank you for coming up with that acronym. People like acronyms, man.

So, yeah, there's this idea of life mission. Like, what are you doing it for? What's cool about that also is it keeps you motivated along the journey to financial freedom. So, I mean, we ask people all the time, right? what, like, why are you doing what you're doing? Why are you pursuing real estate investing? They're like, for financial freedom. And it's like, well, why?

For freedom. And like, okay, well, why? Well, for freedom. You're so true. And then some people will go into, I want to spend more time with my family. And that was my, that was my mission for years with more time on my family. And then I did it, right? When I left the Bigger Pockets podcast to go spend time with my family and build the

open door capital, I went and traveled the country for four and a half, five months, like went around, went to Europe, went around the country, did all this amazing stuff with my family. I was with them 24-7. And then I realized that freedom. doesn't necessarily mean spending 24-7 with my family either. It was like I needed something more than that. That's a huge piece of it was being able to choose to spend time with my family.

But that just alone, spending time with my family was not my life's mission. So you know why that happens? Because most of us only look at one step ahead of where we are. We know, I don't want to be here. What do you want? I don't know. Add someone, what do you want to eat for dinner tonight? They always don't know.

But when you propose something, what do they say? Okay. I don't want that. I don't say okay, which is that easy, right? People know what they don't want, but they don't know. know what they want. Sometimes you have to start with eliminating what you don't want and moving forward. And as you take that journey, what you want sort of becomes clear. And you get better, you get a better understanding. Now, you also have tools like the vivid vision that you come up with that

kind of force your brain to figure out what do I really want. But it's much easier to know what you don't want. So you knew that I don't want to miss out on my kid's childhood. I don't want to miss out on my family. So you made choices. But then you get there and you're like, well, this is great. But I know there's other people in the world other than my family that need help. Yeah. Right. So like the human trafficking thing, which we can get into later is something that you've become really passionate about, but you probably wouldn't have been exposed to that if you didn't start the journey somewhere else, not knowing where you were going to be heading. Oh, man, that's so good. And it leads into like this, I did the idea that's been, I've been talking

about a lot later. In fact, just a speech I gave it the real estate better life thing the other day. I talked about how when your mind, like your mind is actually a piece of real estate, right? I love this concept. Your mind is a piece of real estate and it is a finite piece of real estate. There's only so much land in there that can be used. And so when 70% of your mind, 80% of your mind, 90% of your mind is consumed with survival, which is what most of the world is. You do not have the land needed to cultivate the better crops, right? Because it's just consumed with paying the bills. And when I say survival mode, I'm not talking about like, where's the food?

But in a way it is. That's what our brains are kind of caveman-y brains are like, we got to get money so we can pay the bills. Once you take that off the table, once you are set for life to quote Scott Trench's amazing book, now you can actually plant better crops. people are in survival mode 24-7. And so they can't think the next step. And I give a very tangible example of that. When I was 21, I got into real estate.

A lot of people have heard my story. If not, I think I was episode, ooh, 92 maybe somewhere around there, my original episode, which was been 10 years ago, nine years ago. But when I got into real estate, the first six, seven years was like build real estate, build rentals, build cash flow. I need it, need it, need it, need it. But when I hit like 27, I had enough cash flow,

I had $3,000 to $4,000 a month coming in. And I lived in a cheap area with a cheap house so I could do this. And I quit my job. And all of a sudden, I had level one financial freedom. Now, did that make me super happy all the time? No, not really. I mean, it was fine, but it was nice not having that crappy job I had. But what it did is it gave me the opportunity to start volunteering my time for this

little blog that existed back then, a little blog and forum. I started just volunteering my time editing blog post and writing blog posts. It was run by this guy, Josh Dorkin. And it was a weird named blog called Bigger Pockets. I started just writing for him because I had free time to do that. And then when it was like Josh and I started talking more and it was like, hey, why don't we start a podcast? I had the ability to do that.

And so I was able to plant those better crops. I was able to take advantage of incredible opportunities because I was no longer in survival mode. And that is right there, a picture. Now, I'm not saying everyone has to go to start a podcast, but you will likely not see the opportunities that are in the world if you are consumed with the thought of how do I get out of, how do I survive, right? You cannot live a better life. Because you have to figure out what do I don't want. I don't want to be hungry. Yeah, yeah. So I have to go work for food.

That's kind of the idea of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You don't hit the self-actualization until you know your immediate needs are going to be met. And so, and this goes back to the very beginning and then I'll shut up. But like this idea of once you have a life's mission, and you take care of the bottom levels of the pyramid, you have financial freedom. You don't worry about survival mode and you have a mission in life. Now of a sudden you can move. Right. So my mission back then, a large piece of it was also like to educate people in real estate. So like I had the basic bills paid for and I wanted to educate. So I could put a lot of time and effort and money and intention into that. And that's why one of the reasons why bigger pockets blew up because

I was put in a hundred hours a week doing something I loved. So was Josh and so were you when you get in. So financial freedom, if you're not sure why you want it, maybe just think about that way is you have a life's mission. There's something you want. You know, let's solve the financial freedom level one. Let's get you financial freedom on this episode. I want every person by the time we're done talking today to go, I know why I want it, how I want it, and I'm working towards it. And five years from now, if you're not financial free, then we didn't do our job today. Yeah, because money can solve a lot of those immediate problems.

I need something to eat. Well, if I have money, that's going to be solved. I need somewhere to live. I've had money that's going to be solved. I need to have a little bit of money left in the bank or I need to have less pressure on me so I can think about other people in my life, right? We've all heard that example of the drowning man in the ocean that can't save anybody else if he's drowning.

If you're in that point of I have to solve this problem, there's nothing left over, like you said. And I don't think a lot of people realize that when they get those immediate problems solved, they think that was the goal of life. That was just the goal of what they could see from that position. It gets more complicated. It gets more difficult. You start to feel pressure and responsibility. You start to realize you have influence and people are watching what you do.

And you can easily lead other people into the same vices that you're in when you're in a bigger influential position. So I'd like to talk about that with you more because you've got more influence now than ever before. But before we do, on our harrowing paths of financial freedom, we wanted to share some of the most impactful moments or lessons that helped us along the way and will help you move along your path as well as you listen to this. A couple of stories from the podcast that were particularly impactful that you and I went through. The first one is my favorite one. Particularly impactful. That's a name of a book right there. Particularly impactful by David Green coming out in 25.

Is that what you think of when you think of me? Particularly impactful. I don't know that anyone else would. particularly okay I think you should say that with a British accent I've got different accents I've got a Scottish one if I like to hit it oh I like that one that's good all right the first story this is one of my favorite ones we call this the toilet story oh geez can you share the abridged version and how that impacted assigning value to your time geez okay it starts with four friends poor friends of

mine well one friend of mine and three of his buddies young 20s living in my apartment complex back in Grace Harbor and I was like 25 years old is she'll And they texted me and said, hey, one of my buddies texted me said, hey, the toilet's not working. I said, okay, I'll take care of it. And then I just forgot, right? Because it wasn't my system. I had a, I had like a system for calling for repairs. It wasn't texting me.

But he texted me and said it wasn't working. I'll take care of it. What I should have said is, sure, can you call this person, like call my maintenance person, whatever? I didn't. I'll take care of it. I forgot. Week later, he texted me back and said, hey, man, it's getting real bad. It's about to overflow.

It's really crappy. Yeah, it's really crappy. He's like, it's getting real bad. you really should come take care of this because they had continued to use the toilet for a solid week. Of course. Because they're 21 year old kids and that's what they do. So they continue to do the toilet.

They had all had the flu during that period. So the toilet was completely full. I go there and this is the era of how not who. So not who not how. So I said, how am I going to fix this? I would never call. I'm not going to call plumber. Plumbers are $50 an hour.

Of course, today they're much more. I'm not going to pay $50 an hour. So I try to plunge it. It doesn't work. try to snake it with one of those little hand snakes doesn't work. I try plunging again. It doesn't work. So I get the brilliant idea. I'm going to unbolt it from the floor. And so I unbolt it from the floor. And I pick it up. Like I'm doing a squat. And I'm carrying it across the bathroom. And I heat it up into the bathtub. And it, it, it covers me in every. Were you trying to trying to put it in the bathroom? I was trying to get it. You're hoping they would just go down the, the, the, yeah, I wanted to, I wanted to flip it upside down to figure out what was.

locking it. Okay. So you needed a place to put. So I dumped it upside down in the toilet or in the bathtub. In the meantime, it covers me. And I found a little contact lens solution bottle thing in the bottom of toilet. So I fixed it. But then I got dreadfully sick the next week. And that was the last time, really, that I did any sort of plumbing on any real estate property I ever did. Did any of it hit that one area of your back that you can't get? It's still there, man. It's still there. So here's the lesson, right? So it took that. It took that to get me out to go, a plumber would have been a hundred bucks. A plumber would have had a powered router, router, rudder, rudder that they would have, yeah, rudder is what you make wood out of, or make cool designs. A router to rudder it out. And it would

have been done in 20 minutes. It's going to cost me a couple hundred bucks probably. And I wouldn't have had that problem. I would have gotten sick. But I value that lesson because it taught me the who not. Like sometimes I would be much better off. In fact, this is a much broader topic. If you want financial freedom. The lesson here is a who not how lesson. But it's not a who not how entirely. It's not sit on the beach and do nothing. It is everything you do has a dollar per hour attached to it. If you want to hear a great podcast about this, we interviewed Perry Marshall, the guy who wrote the book 80, 20 sales of marketing. And he talked a lot about everything you do has a dollar per hour attached to it. If you're mowing the lawn, you could attach a $20 an hour to that because

you could find somebody to mow your lawn for $20 an hour. If you're changing the oil in your car, that's probably a $40 an hour task. Everything you do has a dollar per hour attached to it. So 80, 20 is driven by power laws and it, and it says that everything is exponential. It's not addition. It's multiplication. And so, and so there's, the value of your time is not $10, 20, 30, $40 an hour. It's 10, 100, $1,000, 10,000. The fact is if you're negotiating in real state deal. If you are sending out direct mail letters, that is likely more like a thousand dollar per hour tasks. If you work 10 hours at lead generation in your business and you land a deal that ends up netting you $30,000, how much money per hour did you just make a lot? So what I was doing

as I was trying to do everything and I was like I was sacrificing the great for the good. I was stepping over dollars to pick up pennies. And so that's really what I've learned in this who not how idea is, is find my value. What is the most valuable thing I can possibly do? I'm going to do as much of that as a human league possible. Now, in the beginning, you have no money, fine. You might have to do more, but as fast as you can. Even the idea of like, okay, let's bring back chat GPT. If there's things that chat GPT can help you do, that's a dollar an hour. Great. Get that work into, and you start doing the $2 an hour stuff. And then as soon as you can afford the $2 an hour or $5 an hour VA, hire them to do some of the $5 an hour stuff. Stop mowing your lawn. Hire the kid next door to do that.

There are things you can afford. In fact, I would say sell your car, downgrade your house, house tag, do whatever you can defrave as much money as possible, and then use that money to buy back your time so you can dedicate your time to doing the higher dollar per hour tasks. If you don't know what those higher dollar per hour tasks are, listen to any podcast episode of Bigger Pockets and you'll hear people talking about what those things are. And just like you didn't walk into the first jujitsu gym and immediately start training, the first VA you hire, the first assistant may not be the one.

that you run with for the entire time. It is okay if it takes a couple tries to get that right. My first assistant I hired because I needed an assistant to help me with digital stuff, like bigger pocket stuff and show notes and all that good stuff, my email and all that. And she's going to be my digital assistant, maybe edit some blog posts, maybe edit photos, upload the social media, all that. So I hire this woman that I know because she applied. That was the only criteria, a woman I know and she applied.

And so it was a terrible criteria. But I hired her. First day, I buy her a brand new Mac computer. I rent her an office. And I go and I set her up in the office. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to train you today on how to do this stuff that I need you to do. So I sit down. I'm like, okay, so go to your desktop.

And she said the words, what's the desktop? And I was like, it's like the screen. It's like everything. Like that's your desktop. And I was like, so click on my computer or whatever it was. And she goes, what's that? And I was like, oh, geez. And then I asked the question that I maybe should ask earlier.

Have you ever used a computer before? And the answer was, well, I have a phone. And I realized that day, I hired a digital assistant who had never used a computer in her life. And you know what? I learned that was sitting on the bench. I was sitting on the little kid bench that day. That's so good. And I found a new spot for her.

She was amazing in that new role. It worked out in the next assistant, a little better. A little bit better. The next one, a little bit better. And they're still getting a little bit better. My assistant right now, Kat is the best assistant I ever had. It's just taking me 10 years. Yeah.

They've been getting better every time. Even Brandon Turner has failed and failed and failed and failed. I think the difference is you just keep going. And so many, see, when we don't share this, people hire an assistant, maybe too, it doesn't work. I just must not be good at this. I just suck a jiu-jitsu. It's not for me.

Let me go find something else. Oh, dude, if we could just, anytime people say I tried that it didn't work, like that drives me nuts. I'm like, no, you didn't try every way to do that thing. Oh, yeah, I tried sending direct mail. It didn't work. How would you send? A couple hundred?

a couple hundred a day, a couple hundred a week? No, a couple hundred. Why would that work? I tried exercising. It didn't work. Yeah, yeah, we don't go. I went to the gym today. I actually left the gym.

The other day, I made a video and then it didn't turn out well so I didn't post it, but maybe I still will. David, gyms are scams. Completely scams. They don't work. Like, I went to the gym the other day. I went in there. I worked out for almost an hour and I walked out and I'm still fat. They're complete scams.

They say if you go to the gym, you're going to lose weight. And I did everything they said to do. And I did everything they said. I even did the ad machine for 20 minutes. I went on the elliptical machine, and I didn't lose weight that day. So I'm never going back to a gym again. Complete ridiculous. And everywhere I go, I'm going to tell everybody else.

Yes, I'm going to tell everyone the gyms don't work. I'm going to go on Reddit and start a forum just to bring up this topic. That's it. Right. Oh, geez. It's, it's a. That's a great point. I mean, that's a great point.

What's funny is that in certain areas of life, we understand you're not going to get into your first relationship and crush it right away. You're not going to go on a diet for a day and crush it. You're not going to go in the gym and crush it. You're not going to ride a bike the first time. You're not going to snowboard. You're not going to surf. None of that's going to happen the first couple times you do it.

Yeah, with money, we have this completely different expectation for how it's supposed to work. When I met Heather in college and I fell in just head over heels in love with her. And one day, I took her out for a walk. I said, can we go for a walk? And I went out there and I poured my heart out. And I'm like, I really like you a lot. And I don't, I can't stop. And I just, I, I, I, I, I want to, I want to, uh, get closer to you. And she said, oh, that's nice.

Oh. Oh. That's nice. Oh. Oh. And I'm like, oh. Yeah. And she's like, I like you too. You're a good friend. Oh. Give you a little back. Yeah. You know what? Yeah. But you know what? I did a week later. I took her out again. I was like, no, you don't understand, I really like you. And I need this, I need more. That's good, man. How many people have reached out to a mentor, shot their shot, poured their heart out, got rejected and just said, I can't ever do that again. Yep. So many. Do you think there's a correlation between how much rejection a person is willing to go through and how successful they're going to be? Yep. Very much. And that's why the best salespeople are just the best at taking rejection. Yeah. Like the best daughter

are salespeople. I know some really great salespeople. The best ones are the ones I can just get, they don't, it doesn't fade them, get rejected. It took me four tries to ask Heather out before she finally said yes. And I basically had to give her an ultimatum. I was like, I can't be your friend anymore. I was like, I love you too much. I don't think I said love. But I was like, I'm so obsessed with you. And I just, it hurts every second of every day. And she's like, well, then I was like, I can't be friends. I'm done. I'm breaking this up. I'm no longer a friend. And she goes, I think her words were fine, then just ask me out like a real man or something like that. She's like, you never actually asked me out.

You did it in like this round. Yeah. She's like pain and personal squish. Yeah. Yeah. She's like, you didn't ever ask me out. I'm like, of course I did. I did like four times.

She's like, no, you didn't. And I'm like, yes, I did. I said I really like you and I don't know what to do with this. She's like, you didn't. That's not asking me. Yeah. I know exactly what that means. Yeah.

Yeah. She was just like, you were just telling me you liked me and, you know, I'm, you know, my first experience telling girl I liked her was almost the exact same thing. And it was the hardest thing at that time. And it was the hardest thing at that time like I'd ever done in my life. I think this is before cell phone. So I remember like taking the phone off of the receiver and like calling her. And it was that same feeling of like I have this ache in my soul that's making me sick.

Like I did not want to tell them how I felt. I did not want the rejection. I was pretty sure she didn't feel the same way. But it was like killing me. So I finally did. And I think I said it along lines of I just think you're really, really special like more special than I've ever seen another person. and I like being around you all the time.

And I think about everything I do. I want you there. And she started crying. Okay. She still didn't understand. I was saying, I like her, bro.

She cried on the phone. It was like, that's the nicest thing. Anyone said, yes, thank you so much. And then I was like, well,

how do you feel? She's like, I don't know, I need to think about it. I'm like, and so I thought, oh, God, I don't want to push her.

Like, this was the hardest thing I've ever done. She's probably feeling the same thing. Let me give her time. So I said, okay, well, why don't you think about it and call me back? She goes, okay. And I'm holding my breath the entire, I'm expecting like in the next five minutes, the next morning, the next day, five days go by. She forgot about it. Oh, geez. All day long, dude, this is all I'm thinking about the entire time.

She forgets we had the conversation. She gets in a car accident. And I'm like, I want to call to check on her, but I'm afraid at the time, I know women listening to this probably, they just think we're stupid. And we are. We don't understand. I was thinking if it would be taken advantage of her vulnerability now that she's been in an accident to go and ask this question or go talk to her when she hasn't had time to come back to me. Finally, I just called a check on her. And at the end of it, when I realized she's okay, I was like, so what do you think about what we talked? Oh, yeah, I forgot all about that. It's so weird how that can happen.

And I just wonder how many people who have a goal, whether it's real estate investing or anything that are trying to make connections, trying to make mentors, they want to sell more houses, they want to connect with a broker, whatever it is. that are in there in their own head, beating themselves up, having no idea the other person doesn't even realize it's happening. Yeah. So the question is for people to think is, where are you being too vague? Where are you not being direct enough in your life? Are you actually asking to buy that person's house? Or are you beating around the bush? Like, you love this house. Yeah. I wish I could own one just like this someday. Right. Same with like business partners. Oh man, we'd be great together. Yep. It'd be great. Instead of like, what do you want? Yeah. Like this is like, Jerry McGuire. Is that the one who was like, what do you? No, no.

It's Ryan God. No, this is Ryan Gosling on the notebook. He's like screaming at Rachel McAdams. Like, what do you want? What do you want? And like, she's like, I don't know. He's like, what do you want? Like, that's what I'm asking people right now. Like, what do you want? You want to buy that house. You want to work with that partner. You want to borrow that money. You want to raise that capital. Go ask for what you want. You want to raise that capital. You get what you want. But what you ask for, not what you imply. But what stops us from doing it is the rejection. But what stops us from doing. You know, the rejection. The rejection. The rejection. I think. There's a scene in Rocky Balboa where he's talking to his son and his son's kind of lost his path in life. You know, that scene I'm talking about. And Sylvester Sloan's character, Rocky, is telling him, like, you need to go after what you want. You're making excuses. Winters don't do that. You're better than that. And he says, in life, it's not about how hard you hit.

It's about how many times you can get hit and keep going. I get tingles every time I think about that, right? Like, I wonder if you could measure someone's resilience with rejection if there's a clear connection between how successful they are. How many times can life punch you? And can you stand in there and get punched over and over and over to learn the past. pattern of what punches look like before you start slipping them. And then eventually the other person gets tired, you can knock them out pretty easy. But all of us want, we have this fantasy that we

want to walk in there and I hit so hard in one punch. It's easy. I never break a sweat. I'm amazing. And that's the person that we're trying to model ourselves after. And when it doesn't work out like that, I guess I just wasn't good at it. I tried it. And it didn't work. Because there's people that do jiu-jitsu that are incredibly good at it that are walking around like complete nerds. You would never know. But I think it's another thing. If you do that for like nine, there's some kids. and the class I go to that started when they were five. And they're teenagers and they're just assassins. But nothing else in life they're like that.

They've just done it so many times. Their brain has seen the patterns and they know the movements and they see angles that someone like me that thinks about it all the time I don't even pick up on. If you commit to real estate investing like that, if you anything like that, you're going to be successful. So thank you for sharing that story. Could I throw one more piece in there in a related way? I don't know how this connects to the actual toilet story that we started this conversation with, But I will say this.

When it talks about asking for what you want and being direct, that means you need to get clarity on what it is you want in real estate. Let's talk real estate specifically here. There's something in multifamily millionaire, volume one that I talked about. I call it the crystal clear criteria. Oftentimes in commercial real estate, we call it the buy box. But crystal clear criteria is what exactly do you want to buy next? Now, if you're listening to the show right now, grab a pen and paper, write these five words down or five phrases down. Number one, location.

Where do you want to invest? Be specific. You can have multiple locations if you want. Just where do you want to invest? Know exactly what we want to invest. Number two, property type. What type of property do you want to buy? Number three, price range.

Where do you want to buy in? What's your max? What's your men? Number four is condition. Condition. Like, you want ugly, nasty growth, tear down? You want just land? You want to build on?

Like, you want a nice property that's eight class? What do you want condition? And the last one would be what I call profitability. What makes it a good deal? Once you know that, It's like, hey, David, I'm looking for some real estate. Can you help you find some? You're like, yeah, whatever, right?

But if I'm like, imagine me as a client. I want a good deal. Yeah, I want a good deal. Yeah, I want a good deal. Yeah, no, David, what I'm looking for is I want something in the Bay Area, preferably the East Bay Area. I want something between $400,000 and $800,000. I'd love it to have an extra unit.

I want to be something a little bit of a fixer-upper because I really like that idea. And again, house with an extra unit somewhere or the ability to add an extra unit. And I just need this thing to break even on. cash flow. That's what I'm looking for. Are you going to take me more seriously now? Oh, yeah. 100%. Right? You know why people don't do that? Why? They are subconsciously putting the burden of solving the problem on the person they're talking to. Ooh. So what you had done with Heather was you by saying, I'm a good friend. I like you. I like to be around you, but you never asked her out. Is you wanted her to figure out. Well, then we should go out sometimes so you didn't have to fill that

rejection. And I'm not criticizing you for that because I think I do it all the time. I think a lot of people do it all the time, but that's where that comes from. Oh, dude, can I take this to a, um, let me, I'm going to take this to a PG-13 level real quick. So if you got kids listening to this, maybe, uh, maybe skip the next 30 seconds, but men do this all the time in regards to sex with their wives. Right. Or their, you know, girls, right? They imply what they want. Like, they would love to have more sex. They're like, oh, what a great night tonight, right? Mm, we got some time. The kids are in bed. Hmm. I wonder what we should do tonight, right? She's like, we could have strawberries.

Yeah, exactly. We could get caught up. on the bachelor. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, what if I was just more direct? And I don't mean that in a mean way. Just in a like,

I would like to do this tonight. Yeah. I bet you they would love that. I bet you they would love it. And the more direct and the more descriptive, they're probably the more they would like it. I think a lot of people would love that. Just be,

so I'm coming into that in all areas of my life. It's just being a little more direct. So I'm going to have everyone do a, do me a favor right now. We're doing a little practice here. I want everyone to pause this podcast who lives and pause it right now. I want you to text one person, something,

one person in your world, what you want. Now, not talking about the bedroom, but like real estate wise, unless you're married and that is what you want. Unless that's what you want. That's fine. But I love it. Like right now, pause it and go text somebody what you want. And then I want you to do that again tomorrow. And then the next day. And I want you to get crystal clear on what you want. If you don't know what you want, make it up. I don't care. It's more important that you decide than what you decide. Good stuff. All right. Moving on to number two. You and I interviewed Stephen Pressfield, the author of The War of Art, one of your favorite books.

And Stephen has a very no-nonsense approach to winning in life. And he often talks about you have to treat your goals like a business. You want to buy another property, but we get stuck in analysis paralysis. Or you get scared off by some new type of financing. Or you say, I'm not in the mood to take on another rehab. I don't feel like it right now. Professionals don't let their environment or their own mind tell them what they should or shouldn't do. They don't follow their feelings.

Professionals do what has to be done. How did that show change your life? Dude, Stephen Pressville, one of my favorite people on the planet. The War of Art is what, I mean, like literally, we send a copy of the War of Art to every single person who joins the Better Life Tribe. Every person gets that book. And somebody asked me yesterday, why that book? Why did you choose that?

I said, because that book, if you can master that concept in the War of Art, you can master anything. And that's the idea is that there are amateurs and they are professionals. Amateurs do things when they want to. Professionals do things because they need to get done. A great quote from that book. He's actually in that book quoting somebody else. else, but I love this line. I love it so much. I might tattoo it on my body someday. And the idea is this.

It's the creative habit is the name of the book. And she just talks about how, you know, there's a famous story in, I cite this in the War of Art where somebody asked the great writer Somerset mom, if he wrote when inspiration struck him or if he wrote on a schedule. And he said, I write only when inspiration strikes me. He says, fortunately, it strikes me every morning at 9.30 sharp. the idea being I show up. Yeah. And the magic happens. The muse is what he calls it. It's kind of a metaphor for like this, this magic, this action, the results that result from you showing up and doing the work. And if we just, that's why it's called the war of art. People might have misheard that and thought we were talking about the art of war. We're not talking about the Chinese

Sun Tzu, whatever war of art. We're talking about our art or art of war. We're talking about the war inside you and this idea of resistance. Resistance is a force of nature. like gravity like anything else. And Pressfield nails this. And he says resistance is what causes us to lie in bed and scroll TikTok instead of analyzing that deal. It's the thing that makes us lying bed watching TV instead of wooing our wife. Right. It's the thing that stops us from doing the things we actually want to do. And it holds us back. It's kind of like a self-limiting belief in a way, but it's a real force and it's very powerful. The Bible talks a lot about how broad is the wrong road and many people take it, but narrow is the righteous road and few people take it.

There is never a point in the journey of success where you don't feel that resistance. There is always the temptation to scroll through social media or sleep in a little bit longer. Jocko takes this on when he wakes up every single day at 4.30, right? I've noticed that the more I eat of certain foods, the more I want to eat those foods. If I eat more vegetables and steak, the more I want that. If I eat more noodles and carbs, the more I want it. Like our brain and our body is programmed to do more of what we already did. And oftentimes when you wake up and you get yourself into the keyboard at 9 a.m., it's much

easier to write when you've been writing. And it can go the opposite. Like you and I are going to go lift weights when we get done with this. The more you lift weights, the more your body starts to want to lift weights. The more you start to feel wrong if you don't exercise, the more momentum you get. When you're not doing it, you never feel like doing it. Yeah. Yeah, it's so true.

And there's an identity component to this as well, right? there's a you are somebody who works out and and I I'm not right now like I've been going to the gym I've gone to gym quite a bit in the last few few months but I still don't have the identity yet of a gym rat right like a weight lifter of a weight lifter now I definitely run you like to swim you like to surf I like to do that stuff yeah I have that identity somewhat I've kind of lost it with running and jiu jitza lately because I haven't done as much of it I'm actually trying to change my identity to be as somebody who goes to the gym and so how do you do that how does that become just who I am. Like at some level, it's a chicken or the egg problem, right?

Either like my identity doesn't say I go to the gym every every day yet. So I have to force myself manually to do it. But if you force yourself manually to do something long enough, it becomes habit, becomes routine, habit turns into routine, routine turns into identity. So what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to craft my identity. I call it identity theft. I'm trying to steal an identity that I want. I don't have that. I want that identity because I know with that identity comes a better life, the kind of life that I want. So what does, what do I have to do do in order to get that identity over the long haul? How do we stick with something, though, for the long haul? How do I stick with the gym? Let me show you exactly what I'm doing. I even brought this in

the room because I carry this with me almost everywhere. I actually track this. So if you have the intention journal from bigger pockets, you can do it right inside there. The intention journal, we have a section in there called the habit tracker inside the habit tracker. And I also have this inside the Better Life Tribe and make everybody do this. This is literally what we do in the tribe, as we report back every week on this thing. But I've got this habit tracker. Here's what my habits that I'm currently tracking. These are things that don't come naturally to me

that I have to force myself to do on a regular basis so that I can adopt so I can create a new identity. Number one, screen time under two and a half hours. Did I do it or not? I check it off every morning. Did I do that yesterday or not? 10,000 steps. Did I get it?

In fact, today I already got it because I went for a long walk earlier. Did I enter a win as my food? Like for my food, I enter it. There's an app called My Body Tutor. It's a few hundred bucks a month. I've got a one-on-one coach that checks my food every single day. Did I enter my food in and can I call it a win? If I can, I give it a check mark.

Did I pray with Heather before going to bed? Did I have a date or some kind of like no kid time with Heather? Did I do morning, like reading devotions, Bible, whatever with the kids? Did I have dinner at the table? You know the studies that show, like there's an amazing study that show when you have dinner at the table with your family? it solves almost every problem that a kid has. Like it's like probably the number one predictor of a good kid

is the amount of dinner you have the table with them. And then the next one is why I bring it up. Gym session. Did I get to the gym? So it's not natural for me right now. I have to force myself to do it. But by tracking it, I'm instantly better. I'll check this out.

This is my week right now. I know you guys can't see this. But gym session, my goal is three times this week. Nope, nope, nope, nope. I only have three days left in the week. But I'm going to report. back to my pod, my accountability group on Tuesday, and I'm going to have to tell them that either I didn't or I didn't do it. So guess what we're doing after this podcast? We're lifting and

weights. Because what we're doing tomorrow. We're lifting weights. Because we're doing Saturday. And we got three days left. I'm going to get it. Right. So I am forcing myself through a combination of habit tracking and accountability to get the habit so I can turn it into a routine so I can change my identity so I can change my life. And that's what you have to do if you want your life to change. That is what a professional does, and that is why the war of art changed my life. It's a good thing. Helping change your identity. It's a good thing. Helping change your identity. Change my identity. It wasn't for me. You have the identity of a guy who lives weights. And so when I don't do it, I don't like how I feel. Yeah. I have this natural thing that makes it

easier to go to the gym because if I'm not going, I feel bad. Yeah. Versus when it's not natural for you, it's not your identity, you can skip it and doesn't bother you. Yeah. And for those who are not understanding the connection to real estate here, you know, there's a lot of things you have to do in real estate on a regular basis. analyzing deals, getting leads somehow, maybe calling brokers, making an offer. There's actions you can do on a regular basis. And if that is not natural for you right now, define what those are, track them, get accountability on them and do them. Let me add one more point. Then we'll move on. Why did I suddenly start going to the gym again? I mean,

why did I add that as a habit on here? You know what? One, I identified what it was, but two, Alex Felice. So Alex Felice is a buddy of mine who he's been around the bigger pockets will forever. he just came on full time to be the creative director of like the whole better life movement tribe whatever so he is video he's on that set up all cameras here he's doing all that stuff Alex is a gym rat he loves it goes every single day you can tell by looking at him he's a gym guy here's the truth about passive investing if the strategy isn't right on day one the returns won't save it multi-family real estate offers structural advantages many investors are overlooking including depreciation that can help offset taxable income while cash flow continues Bam Capital builds its investment with that reality in mind. They are focused on solid operators, tax efficiency, and long-term performance. For investors who want real estate exposure without being landlords and who care about

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And so every day Alex, I can't go to the gym. I'm like, yeah, let's go. Right. It's a whole lot easier to get to the gym because of Alex. who is Alex in your life that will drag you with? Not even, it's like, Alex isn't out to do it. He just, by him going, by osmosis, I am more of a gym person because of Alex. Who is that Alex in your life that you need to get around and you will naturally become a better

real estate investor or a better husband or a better father or a better mother, kid, wife, whatever it is role you play. If you get around somebody who has that identity right now, you will start to steal their identity and it will change your life. That's great. Number three episode had to do with Cameron Harold and the Vivid Vision. That was episode 447. And I don't even know we need to cover this because I think you already covered it in previous

ones. We're talking about crystal clear criteria. Deciding is more important than what you decide. You mentioned that. Let's just, we've already gone into the importance of having clarity. But what else was in your vision when you got clarity that made a big difference in where you are now? Yeah.

Let me tell the quick story. So I went to best ever conference. It's a real estate conference put on my Joe Fairlard. in Denver. This is like five years ago. And I was on stage and I was like, man, I don't deserve to be here. Like I had like 30 rental units and these guys have hundreds, sometimes thousands. There's some people that remember that had a thousand or more units, 2,000, 3,000. They're big syndicators and whatever. And I was like, the only reason I'm here is because I have a big mouth and I can sell tickets. Like, I don't want to be that guy that's on stage and I don't deserve it. I want to

earn my spot here. And so I left there and I read a book. I read it then. And I was like, oh my gosh, which is so good. The vivid vision is a description of what it looks like in the future the team then figures out the plan to make that come true. And I had such a clear picture of where I wanted to go in life. The idea is very simple. Don't just write out a basic premise of like, I want this many units and this much money, but like craft that into a vision, a story or a picture, something that's a little bit maybe artistic.

So what I did is actually on the wall right behind you. I know it's all out of focus in the video, but it's called the $50 million surfers. It's a four foot post for my wall. It's a newspaper article written three years in the future. future. How a small team of adventure seekers built a real estate empire, helped millions achieve financial independence and kept their humanity intact. And it begins December 31st, 2021, Maui Hawaii, open door capital, a Maui-based investment firm is an investment firm unlike anything you've seen. Instead of suits and ties, you'll find the small team wearing board shorts and flip flops.

And it goes on from there. In fact, I read the entire vision at the end of that episode. If you want to go back and listen to it, I think I did anyway. I think the whole thing I read, is you can hear what my vision was. Now, have I hit every one of those perfectly? not perfectly, but I said we bought $50 million a real estate. On December 31st, 2021, we closed, we had closed over $300 million of real estate. That is powerful in itself, is having a vision for where you're headed. It's equally powerful, if not more, for getting people on your side. Remember we talked about clarity.

Oh, there's so much that this ties in. When you have clarity, like I said earlier, if I were to tell you I want a house in East Bay, that's a duplex, blah, blah, blah, I now have clarity. people want leadership, people want clarity, people around you want somebody who knows where they're going and what they're doing. So as soon as I made that, all of a sudden everyone was like, yeah, let's do it. That sounds good. And everyone followed me.

And I was like, I don't really know what I'm doing here, but this is great. Like I just made up a vision for my future. A buddy of mine, Chris Wood the other day sent me a message that said, hey, I got a really cool idea. You can use chat to GPT to create your vivid vision. And I was like, oh, no way, that's a good idea. So he was showing me and I checked the test. You just like write a couple of the points that you want.

Like, I want this. I want this. I want this. And say, write that in a newspaper article three years in the future. And it'll write it. And it's amazing. Like so if you're not an artistic writer, you can still create a vivid vision off of that.

Where are you headed realistically, but also make it a little bit of a challenge and then show that to everybody. Tell everybody. In fact, I took that vision and I showed Ryan Murdoch. And I said, this is what I want. He said, let's go. And Ryan led the charge to get there until we brought in Walker, who now runs the company, and now we're, like I said, we're closing up, not 50 million. We're closing in on a billion

dollars of real estate. In the next 10 years, we're to buy $10 billion of real estate. We're going to give away a billion dollars. In fact, let me tell you the mission of the Better Life Tribe. It's very clear. We're going to have 10,000 members paying an average of $500 a month in the next three years. For that, they're all going to change their lives, but that's going to produce $50 million a year. We're going to give 100% of that profit away to fight human trafficking. That's a mission people can get behind. Not only are you making your life better and getting financial freedom, your And we are going to, we are going to make sure everybody in there gets financial freedom. We're going to free millions of people from the horrors of slavery.

That's a mission people can get behind. And that's why people are like, that's why people are following me and volunteering and helping. And we're getting celebrities on board. We're getting all this cool stuff because I have a vision. And people crave vision. So that's the lesson there is get a compelling vision for your life. And it's okay if what you pick adjust.

Adjust. Yeah, sure. I think a lot of people are afraid to put that down because I don't. don't know for sure. Well, is it more clear than where you were before? Yeah. You're moving in the right direction. Yeah.

Positive direction. Just every step forward gives you a better life. Yes, that's good. Number four episode was number 365 where we interviewed Jocko Willink. We also touched on this one a little bit already because we can't help ourselves, but just share information and dump value every single chance that we get. So we've already described how that led to Jiu-Jitsu and extreme ownerships. But for people who haven't heard of the concept of.

of extreme ownership. Can you just share briefly what that is? It's really straightforward, right? The mistakes are going to happen. Your life is going to happen. Your life is going to unfold. And the longer you sit around and blame other people, other things, other circumstances for the situation for the situation, the longer you're going to be in that bad situation, the minute that you say, okay, this is what's going on, this is on me and I'm going to do what it takes to get it fixed. If you take that attitude, I'm telling you right now, that is, that will turn your wife around. Yeah, it means that everything in my in my life is is my wife's fault. Moving on. I'm kidding, but that's how people react, right? It's like, oh, I didn't get laid. So it must be my wife's fault.

I didn't get that real estate deal. It must by my agent's fault. I didn't get in shape. Must be the gym's fault. Extreme ownership says, no, it's yours. Everything is your fault. Everything's your fault. Everything's your responsibility. Everything is your ability to change. Like you get to control your life. It's true. There are bad things that happen to people. And it's not saying, hey, that person that was mean to you, it's not your fault that they were mean to you. But you chose to be in that setting oftentimes.

Again, not always. I don't want to make it sound like especially people in who have had traumatic experience. You chose to be the kind of person they'd be comfortable being mean to. Maybe. In some way. Maybe. Yep. And so, and even in the random case where it is completely like an asteroid from space comes

down and annihilates your house. You still buy your house. but okay, it's now you're still your responsibility. Did you have a plan in place for what you're going to do with an asteroid? Yeah. What are you going to do if you an astro hit your house? What are you going to do? Did you have enough insurance to cover you? It's a mindset shift that says I take 100% ownership of all things in my life.

And because of that mindset, I will never play the victim. I will never play this idea of, I'm just waiting on another person. No, I will direct everything. And I will control where my life goes. And as the world hits it, and it moves, I'm just going to move it right back because I know where I'm going because I take ownership of it. Can I share what I love about this approach to life with you?

When there is a problem, whoever takes ownership of the problem has the bigger burden. Is that fair? Yeah. That's why most of us don't like ownership. We don't really naturally like responsibility. People want leadership because they see the perks of it. They don't understand the responsibility that comes with it. This is why there's not as many leaders.

People don't even want to take responsibility for getting clarity of what they want in their own life. It is not natural to be responsible because we don't want the burden. When your mindset in life is how do I avoid burden? How do I make it as easy on myself as possible? It's not natural. Let's equate a burden to lifting the weight, picking up the rock, the 20 pound rock and moving it. If you are consistently the person in every scenario that takes responsibility for the outcome and you are the one consistently moving the rock, do you get stronger or do the people get stronger who shirk the responsibility? That's good. So if you take a lifestyle of every Every time you walk by that rock pile, every time there's any problem, you lift the weight,

you lift the weight, you lift the weight. You get stronger and better. And when you get stronger and better, things just happen to work for you better in life. Opportunities come along that you can take down that somebody else can't take down. And the people who are not stronger don't understand is because you've been taking responsibility your whole life. That's where you get the must be nice to be strong. Yep. Must be nice to be big enough to move that rock.

You know, here in Hawaii, we love to do what we call whale hunting. It's actually just get on paddle boards and paddle out into the middle of the ocean, try to find whales, right? So what we'll do is we'll wake up early. We'll be like 6 a.m. I'll walk outside. I'll look on my porch and I'm looking out or my linnae and we'll look out on the ocean and we'll look for the spouts. You ever say the archie blows?

We do every time. And you look for like the mist, right? Because the whales out there. There's whales out there. Let's go. So we drive down the, we load up our boards. We drive down the beach. We run down the beach.

We put our boards in the water and then we paddle out. And we look the whole time we're looking. Where are the spouts? Where are they at? And we see them on the very distance, right? But we don't paddle to them because you'll miss them. they're moving. So we paddle, paddle, paddle, paddle, paddle, paddle, paddle, paddle. And then the whale dives down when we're halfway there and we're paddle for an hour. And we're tired and we're miserable

because it's just paddle, paddle, paddle against the waves and the wind. Get out there and the dive dives down and he's gone. And we don't see it anymore. We're sitting there looking for 20 minutes. Whales just gone. But then on the horizon, we see another one. The smoke goes up, but the mess goes up. So we paddle over that way. And then the whale goes down and we lose it. And then all of a sudden, we see one that's 100 feet away right next to us. I mean, just out of the water. And it's like, whoa, it's like, there's a whale right there. In fact, the last time I went out with Alex, me and Alex went out together.

And we were out there for an hour, hour and a half, saw nothing. And I turned to Alex, I go, I goes, yeah, dude, it's just a dud today. We're not going to see. And as I said, we're not going to see one, not 10 feet away. A gigantic whale is went right next to us. I mean, what are the odds of that, right? Now, nine times out of 10, when I go whale hunting, I go out there in the water, we get within 100, like we get 100 yards from a whale.

If not, sometimes they pop up right next to us. It's nine times out of 10. Is that luck, right? Is that luck? No. I mean, yes, right? Completely lucky. But I got up at six.

I watched the water. I went down to the water. I paddle for an hour. I paddle for another hour. I went around and then I got lucky. But what do the people on the beach say? Lucky. Must be nice to have the whale pop up right next to you.

Right? They don't see that. extreme ownership is saying I'm going to paddle until I get, until I get what I want. It's saying I'm going to get the best board I can saying I'm going to wake up early. I'm going to watch the horizon. And when you do those things right, and you take ownership of the little things, you get the results of the big things. There's a belief of people that are usually not successful at something that the thing just happens or it doesn't happen. Yeah.

Right. Like the whale just showed up or it didn't show up. The people that become successful start to recognize that it was actually in. incredibly predictable that it would happen for that person, right? So you could either look at life looking forward saying, I'm going to take that journey and I hope that on that journey, success finds me. Or you can look from the end looking backwards and say,

life wants to give me opportunity. Responsibility needs to find a home. There is a lack of leadership. There is a huge void where, like you said, people want to follow leaders. They can't find anyone to find. And if I become that, there will be an abundance of opportunity and I'll get to pick whichever one I want.

If I become able and capable of bearing the weight of that responsibility, if I am strong enough to carry that weight, there's probably a hundred people out there like, oh, my God, we have a strong person, give them opportunity, give them a raise, give them a job, give them a position. When you have the skills, the stuff finds you. At this point in your life, you don't have to go out there hunting for opportunity. There is opportunity everywhere because you have skills that can capitalize on it. The people without the skills don't focus on becoming who they need to be to get what they want. They wait until the thing happens and say, can I do it or not?

Am I ready or not? Can I do that job or not? Who do I have to become to have that job? And I'm only saying this because once you get there and you look back, you realize it was very predictable that I would be in this position. There's a lack of good real estate agents, a lack of good podcasts hosts, a lack of people that can articulate themselves, a lack of. lack of trustworthy people, they give financial advice that aren't just trying to steal your money and get rich off of your nativity. Like, do you agree in general that once, that if you focus on getting stronger, the opportunities will find you? 100%. I mean, look at my, if you look at my

business, my real estate business, who runs the whole thing? C.O. Walker Meadows. Walker was a freaking intern. You were raving about that guy from the minute you met him. Because he took ownership. He came in as an intern. He was like, hey, you guys, a spreadsheet sucks. Let me rewrite, redo this, our underwriting model. Oh, he didn't just sit there and criticize. I know, right? The spreadsheet sucks. That's why I don't have that's why I don't have the hard because he gave me a bad spreadsheet. Yeah. Yeah, he was like, I'm going to redo this whole thing.

He took ownership of everything. And over time, he went from intern to acquisitions to director of VP of acquisitions to COO over like a two year period. You know what? My, uh, the Better Life tribe, uh, which is arguably like a $50 million company in the last six months, like in terms of valuation. It's, I mean, it's a nonprofit. So we're not going to sell it.

But it could be like, it's a massively successful operation run by Matt Buck. Who's Matt Buck? My intern. My two companies that are insanely profitable and successful are both run by interns. Why did I put Matt Buck involved in charge? Because he took ownership. You know what? I mentioned Alex Felice, who runs the whole creative side of everything we do at the Better Life Tribe.

He came in the first day and was like, you're an idiot brand in that video. Let me just take over this for you. He means fairly nice about it. But if you know, Alex, you know, that's his personality. He's like, no, let me take it. And he just takes ownership of it. So guess what? He's in charge of a whole lot of stuff today.

And so there is such a, there is a disease of media. in America today of people saying, I'm going to do just enough to not get fired versus I'm going to be the best and take ownership of it. So I don't care if you're in trying to build a real estate business, trying to build your own business, or you work a W-2 job, take ownership and opportunities will explode. That's because extreme ownership is so rare. That's where mediocrity comes from. When you show up at a job and you don't give your best, what you're really saying is it's someone else's responsibility to fix that problem. And I wonder if you looked at Matt and Alex and Walker. I'm almost positive you would find a pattern or a common theme of areas where they showed up for you.

They took responsibility. They fixed other problems. And they did that enough times that you felt comfortable putting that in the CEO. But what everyone does is they say, I want to be the CEO of a better life. Just put me in there. And if you're not going to put me in there, why am I going to try? Yep. You're actually putting the responsibility on somebody else to give you the opportunity that you say that you want.

Yeah. This also goes back to when people always ask, hey, I want to provide value. How can I provide value for you? Like Matt Buck never asked me, how can I provide value for you? Alex never asked how can I provide value. They got in there and provided value, right? Like, they just did it. They solved problems.

They took ownership of little things. And so I gave them more. It's like the biblical thing, right? Like he was, what is it? Who is faithful was a little? We'll be given more. Yeah. Right.

Alex in the beginning did, was faithful. Actually, literally what I did is Alex was a photographer and he worked very hard for three, four years at every bigger pockets conference. He'd be there filming, taking video, making good content. He made a bunch of video series for bigger pockets. He did an amazing job. He worked, worked, worked, worked, worked. And he had to push his way in to get those videos on bigger pockets.

Like he wasn't an employee. He just was like, I'm going to make you videos. You're going to use them. And we're like, okay, I guess we'll use them. It makes me think of the woman who complains about the guy who says, you want to go out. Yeah. And he says, where do you want to go? And it drives them nuts.

Like everyone, like plan a date. Take me there. I want to see what you're like. I want to see what kind of a leader you are. When you show up to the mentor and you're like, I want to be in your world, tell me what I can do to get there. It's that same feeling. Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Murdoch did the same thing, right? When I was like, you know, showed him my vivid vision for where we were going in the company. He was like, all right, let's go. And then he went into work on it. He went like, he just built, built the thing until he gets to the point where you can hand it off to, you know, to the rest of the team. Really, I had a whole bunch of VPs like Walker and the others. And now like Ryan's still around. He's on the board of directors.

We have me, Brian Murray, Ryan and Walker sitting on the board. And so things move because that's ownership. Take ownership of everything in your life. And be grateful for the fact that no one else is. Yeah. Because that's what he tells the opportunities out there. Yeah, it's shocking. No one wants to touch the weights, bro.

Yep. That's true, man. But when you're the strong person, there's a huge need for you. Like, look for those barriers to entry. All right. Well, dude, yeah. Number five episode, 457, where you and I interviewed Patrick Bet David here in this very seashed. I remember that episode.

Everything in life to me is about your next five moves. So I came up with the title, originally 15 moves because I was watching a documentary by Magnus Carlson. And they were talking about how the Grand Master knows, you know, 10, 15 moves. Masters know five to 10 moves. Proes no three to five moves. And the amateur only knows his next move when he plays chess. What are your thoughts when it comes to strategically planning the direction that you want your life to take? It's a great question. Let me start it in a story. I think it's called a cook tree. C-O-O-K. Have you heard of that? A cook cook tree? So I think I'm here in Hawaii, there's these really, really tall pine trees, very straight, tall like pine trees.

The reason they're called cook trees is because when, uh, was it Captain Cook, you know, like the who came and discovered the, not discovered, but, you know, came to the Hawaiian islands. They used to plant these trees back then. And they would plant them as soon as they landed on any island around the world, really,

but I hear it here in Hawaii. They plant these trees. And we have them all over the island now, these really tall, big, wooden, you know, pine trees. Because they planted them knowing that it would take 50 to 70 years to grow to the size that they could use for a mast. So what the empires did back in the day is they'd go around, they'd plant these trees all over the world.

Wow. So on all the islands they went to, they'd keep the little seedlings in their boat. So they plant them. So that 50 to 75 years in the future. Talk about delayed gratification. Yep. They would have a mast that they could use if one broke. Because if you have a mask that broke and there's no trees around, you are stranded there for life.

And so the forward thinking there. So the question is in your business, where are you planting some cooked trees that your family's going to take advantage of? That's the delayed gratification that gets you financial freedom. Now, yes, you can get it earlier than that. But what Patrick was talking about there was this idea of like, thinking way ahead, thinking five moves ahead, 10 moves ahead. Like the whole, like, this is, I'm not just trying to get in survival mode. Like, masters think way, way, way ahead.

And so they plan for generations. That was the idea with Rosie's fourplex. Let me explain that story for those haven't heard it. Very simple process or a very simple piece of real estate. I bought a four unit property. The price doesn't really matter, but I bought it really cheap. It was a nasty, nasty property. I spent one year fixing it up.

But I bought it the week she was born. It was actually the first outing Rosie had the week she was born. And by the time we were all done with it, we had about, call it $150,000 into it, meaning the loan and everything, about $150,000. We put it on an 18-year mortgage. So it's actually a 30-year mortgage that has set up the payment plan to pay off in 18 years. Because 18 years after Rosie was born, she's going to be going off to college. At the time, you can even go back and listen because, I mean, I was doing the podcast around the time that this happened, that I bought it. But at the time, I said that in 15 years from now, or 18 years from now, the property should

be worth between $200,000 and $300,000. I thought it might double over the next 18 years. The property today is worth closer to a quarter, I mean, a half a million dollars. We still owe about $100 grand on it, maybe a little bit more than $100 grand on it. But already, Rose's entire college is paid for. And now I've been making cash along the way. Probably more than her college. Probably her car, her down payment on her first house.

All from one deal that I bird. I did the burr strategy, so I don't have to use a lot of cash. We get, I get cash flow, but imagine this. Imagine, let me even more simple. Imagine you buy any house in America that breaks, let's call it a break even if you don't want to lose money. Let's see you make no cash full on that property whatsoever. You just break even. Let's say you get no tax benefits, even though you would, but you're not going to any tax benefits at all. All you did was bought a property anywhere in the U.S. and put it on a 15-year mortgage. And you broke even on that, on that strategy. At the end of 15 years, even if the property never went up in value, ever, didn't go up a dime, you've still paid off the mortgage from, let's say,

$300,000 house you bought, and it's now paid off to zero. So worst case, you have a $300,000 house. That's, you owe nothing on it. Boom, kids college education paid for. That's what with Rosie. Now, with Wilder, I did something different. Wilder, I took $50,000, and I said, this is your college education? And I put it in open-door capital. And I just put it in my own fund, because what I wanted was- How mad's Rosie going to be if that ends up being worth like 300 million bucks. It probably already is. But the deal, I ran the numbers and it was pretty similar. When I extrapolated out of like a 15% per year, average annual return of $50,000, it ends up being like, I don't know, like 250 grand, 300 grand, something like that.

But I did that. Again, I don't care about the money. I care about the lesson. I want Rosie and Wilder to see that I planted treats for them 20 years ago. That changed their life when they're 18. That lesson will stick with them forever. And I wanted to show them in two ways. I wanted to show them how to do it on a passive way. I wanted to know how to do it on an active way. The burst strategy, it was a hell of a year. Like, it was hard work. It was had like squatters and we had city problems. It was a mess to renovate that property. So Rosie can see the hard work and hear that story. And they can also hear what it's like when you just passively invest. And you kind of get the same result in the end of the day. Either way college is paid for. So that's the thinking a little bit

ahead. So where do I go to find a house for $200,000 that's now worth $500,000? We'll go back to the conversation earlier everywhere in terms of like every property today is likely going to be worth double or triple 20 years from now, how much you paid before. Yeah, but when people hear the strategy, they don't like the thought of, well, in the future, it's going to be worth more. But it's not guaranteed. I don't know that it's going to be worth more. Yeah.

But that's what, okay, fine. Take out the not worth more. Take out the taxes. Take out the cash flow. All you get is a loan pay down. That's a point. All you, if all you got. That is something you can guarantee.

You don't have to worry about. What if the loan doesn't pay down? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You can mathematically see that if you buy a property and put it on a mortgage and you pay it off over time, that is real wealth that you are building. It's shocking how simple real estate is. I had this thought.

I've never shared this. In like 2008 or so, I'd been saving to buy a house and the market was just exploding. It was getting away, right? And I was talking to some real estate agent on the phone. This is before I ever bought a home and said, I want to buy a property that's going to make a little bit of money. I didn't know what cash flow was called. I didn't understand a formula for ROI at the time.

I just thought, I want to buy something that makes a little bit up more than the mortgage. In my head, that was like a safety net. And I was put a lot of money down. And she's like, well, you better put a lot of money down if you're going to buy something. And I was thinking, well, she's kind of discouraging me from doing this. But I thought about it and I thought, well, it's going to get paid off over 30 years. So if I wait long enough, it's a no-brainer. This is a great deal.

And then I probably don't have to wait the whole 30 years before it would cash flow. I bet you five or six years into it, it would probably start to cash flow from the rents going up. And then I thought, well, if I had to wait five years, but I owned it for 30, 25 of those years it's cash flowing. And it exponentially increases every year so that the cash flow in year 20, 25, 27 is so much that any money that I lost in years one through five is probably not significant. You just, when you look at the big picture, there is nothing better to do with your money than buy real estate. It's incredibly simple. it's that we always front load the process. We look at right now.

What is the cash flow in year one when I first buy it? What's it going to be like? And we just get zoomed in on that versus with Rosie and Wilder, you're saying they're going to get this in 18 years. What's the best place to stick money for the next 18 years? And now, what do you know? The properties have appreciated a ton. They have a ton of equity.

Yeah, I got lucky, right? Yeah, the whale popped up right next to me. The whale popped up right next to you. We got lucky. That's it. And everyone's like, oh, yeah, it must be nice to be. Brandon and David, they got it at the right time. That's a great point. Now, are we going to get lucky again in the next 20, 30 years, right? Does anyone really believe that we're going to default on

our debt payments, that we're just not going to print more money to get us out of this, that we're not going to have even more inflation, right? Like, I can't tell you for sure. So people that want that certainty, I can't guarantee it, but I would say odds are, the whales are going to be over there. And if you're out there paddling when they come by, you're going to become a millionaire putting your money in real estate. Now, you and I've talked a little bit. We won't get into it too much. My concern is much more that, like, being a millionaire isn't going to mean anything. Yes, that's another issue. Right.

So it's not your investing in real estate to build huge wealth. You are investing in real estate to prevent yourself from losing the wealth that you've already created. That's a really sad thing for people that are working hard and saving money and investing so much of their time into something that they don't want to do. And then they're losing the value of it as their money becomes worth nothing. You almost have to put in real estate just to break even. Then you have to put it in good deals if you want to get ahead. But even if that's all you did, which is put it in real estate to break even. you're still better off than the people that did nothing.

Yeah, that's very true, man. All right. Last question. What was the biggest mistake that you have made on a podcast? Oh, geez. Should I even talk about that? And what was the most fun show you've done? We made a pretty big one here in the C-Shed at one point.

Did we? What's that one? Jim Quick. Oh, geez. Yeah, that was a, oh, geez, oh, geez. Jim Quick, I'll tell the story real quick, but real quick. Jim Quick is a phenomenal author, speaker, writer, very cool guy. one of the more high level biggest, most famous guest we've ever had.

Yeah. He does the biggest podcast. Yeah. He could have been on Oprah. Yeah. He's very smart. Like brain guy. Brain guy on memory and using your brain and intelligence.

That's what he teaches on. So he gets on the podcast. And he's like, and he says some compliment. Like, yeah, your guys' systems are really good. It was really nice getting on the show at the beginning. And I go, yeah, man, we got so many good systems here. We have this podcast dialed. And I was like, and I said the words, I'm so.

so terrified of losing a recording that we have backups of backups of backups. I said the words, backups of backups of backups because we do, unless somebody forgets to hit the record button, in which case we have no backups of backups of backups. So about 45 minutes of that show, I'm sitting there chatting, you know,

having a great conversation. I look down and I see that. We never hit record and I just turned, the look you gave me. Uh-huh. Like, oh no. And we start texting like. It was so dramatic, Brandon, I thought you were messing with me.

Yeah. Like, I thought you were trying to trick me. Oh, that was so bad. Well, this is after you had specifically said to Jim. Yeah, it would have been different if I wouldn't have been so arrogant about it. Right. Like, we're so good at this. We're amazing.

And so 45 minutes in, I'm like, do we just pretend that never happened? And we just never air this episode. And part of me wanted to avoid humiliation was to torpedo a great show. And just not have to take extreme ownership. not take ownership of my mistake. Ooh, there's a lesson in there. Instead, I said, Jim, I am so sorry, man. And we screw this up.

And he was so gracious and was like, hey, no problem. And let's just start back over. And we started back over and we did a great show. It was humiliating. He said no problem with his words. His eyes said a little. I remember there was some frustration that he was gracious enough to keep in. He was gracious.

Yeah. And I don't know that we ever spoke to him after that. Yeah. So the lessons there don't be arrogant. Don't forget to hit record. But it led to a lot of improvements. We use a different platform now when we're recording that we never used before because it's we don't,

the platform itself records. We don't have to worry about remembering hit the buttons on all of the hardware that you had set up. And you know what? There's one other lesson here to pull out. That episode with Jim Quick, right? That was such a big deal. at the time. It was a monster big deal like that because Jim Quick was coming on the show. And

this was going to change our podcast forever. Today, Jim Quick was one episode on a 600. Yeah. Right. It's a most people listen to us right now, listen to you and me, never heard that episode. It made no difference. We could have scrapped the episode. We could have played the episode. It was one rock. But the emotions in the moment made it seem like it was in the world. So it's one rock in the wall. It was, you know, we've been moving rocks for 10 years straight on this podcast. So one rock got dropped in the middle of a thing. It wouldn't have matter. We could have screwed it up anyway. It would have been fine. So just to remember that in life when it comes to real estate, too, is like, it's just a deal. It's just one deal. It's just one rock.

If something goes wrong, okay. You lose the money. Okay. It's just a rock. What matters is the wall. At the end of the day, like what matters of the journey, first of all, that you enjoy the journey. That's number one. Enjoy the walk across the field, moving rocks from one side to another. and then build a good wall. And if you stick with that and just keep walking, keep carrying, you're getting stronger. Maybe you're moving some bigger rocks. You're building a great wall on the other side of that thing. At the end of your life, you look back and be like, dang, like, who cares about the couple

rocks that I dropped here and there? Because I built something that's going to last. What was the most fun show that you ever did? This one's been pretty fun. It's been a lot of fun. Maybe the one I first interviewed you and you made fun of me incessantly for an hour. That was a lot of fun for me, a job. Yeah, okay, that was a lot of, I mean, there is an argument to be made that humor plays a role in being successful.

It releases tension. It keeps attention. Sorry, it releases tension. It keeps attention. Yeah. In a lot of ways. I mean, people can just come up and they can just give you the pure vitamins, but no one wants to listen to it. I mean, don't you have speakers that are very smart, but your mind wanders when they're talking. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the more fun shows are usually the funnier shows. And yeah, it's entertainment. I think. think that's actually one of the reasons the bigger pockets did so well is it's been an entertaining show for 10 years. And people like to be entertained. I like to be entertained. I like Joe Rogan's an entertaining guy. Even though he's not always funny, he's entertaining. That's a good point. And they're different. So maybe you could define entertainment as the ability to hold attention. Yeah, that's it. It's hard to do for people that think that you're just sharing information. I look at information like

nutrients and I look at entertainment like taste. Like no one wants to eat food that doesn't taste good, even if you know you're supposed to. Yep. And you are. very entertaining man. You are very easy to talk to. You made this whole interview, which was pretty long. Feel like it was very short. You've kept my attention the whole time. You've captivated our audience. I'm a charismatic. Charismatic. Honorable man. Yeah, I'm glad that we're further apart from each other than we normally are because it's easier for me to focus when you're not like right in right of my face. We turn the dust sideways and with that tractor beam with blue eyes. That just suck me right in. Some of the solo shows we did, I thought were a lot of fun. Yeah. I always enjoyed doing

solo shows with you. Mostly because we could play off of each other more. We didn't have as much of having to worry about the guests. I agreed, man. Well, thanks for, thanks for doing this. Thanks for being here. Thanks for coming back again, giving the old guest some nostalgia at your Better Life conference.

We actually recorded a podcast for you, so people should go check that out. They want to hear what it's like to see Brandon and I that got the band back together. Thanks, man. Tell us where people can find out more about you. I am an Instagram nerd. So Beardy Brandon, Beard of the Y,

beardy, what? But I always I used to say Beardin, Beard, Beard, B.I. People like, okay, that's B-Y-R. I'm like, beard, why. Think Spanish. like Beard E. Brandon. It's like Beard and Brandon. Beardy Brandon on Instagram, TikTok, all that stuff. The podcast is a better life with Brandon Turner. We hit number 40 of all podcasts in the world

when we launched. That was awesome. It's not there now, but it was. We have a traveling podcast. So I travel around the country and I record people. And that's been a wild adventure to do that. We'll like fly into a city and record seven podcasts at one time over a three day period with no sleep. and we go out with the guests afterwards. And it's been an adventure. But man, it's been fun. So that's it. A Better Life of Ben Tender goes to listen to the podcast.

And you were on it. So go listen to that episode, everyone. It was actually, I heard multiple people say that when you and I were chatting on, we did a live podcast recording, then we followed it up with a little interview after. But when we did the live one, almost everybody I talked to said that was the best part of the entire conference that I held and that it was the best thing that you and I have done together.

People thought it was one of the best things you know. Now, I think this interview might, was pretty darn awesome. But go listen. All right. You've got a lot going on, man. You've not been resting on your laurels. That's for sure. Very cool to see this.

And cool to see that the vision is still firing even faster than it was. Poo-Pew. We're doing our stuff together. That's right. Thanks for joining us, everybody. Please go check out Brandon all over the place. And send him a message. Let me know what you thought about this show.

I let you get out of here because you've been sitting down for a long time. This is David Green for Beardy Pugh-Pew, Brandon. Signing up. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K, copywriting is by Calicoke content, and editing is by Exodus Media.

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