BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 794: Buying Houses with $100 Down and Creative Finance Secrets Most Don't Know

Episode Date: July 20, 2023

Creative finance is a home-buying hack that most people don’t know about. If you know what it is and how to use it, you can pick up properties for only a hundred dollars, build your rental portfolio faster than ever, and reach financial freedom in mere years. And in 2023, when the housing market is still hot, and home prices have barely cooled off, creative finance could be the solution to no cash flow and overpriced deals. But before you creatively finance your next rental property, you’ll need to know which strategy to use and when to use it.  Jenn and Joe Delle Fave used creative finance to move from snowy Upstate New York to sunny Florida after escaping soul-crushing work. Jenn, a former teacher, loved her career, and the time she spent with her kids. But Joe was stuck at the car dealership, working late into the night, sacrificing family time to make more money. He knew he needed a way out but didn’t want to give up the financial security of a W2. Everything changed when he had the “light bulb” moment to try creative finance. Now, Jenn and Joe have run a full-time investing business, picking up pristine properties using strategies like seller financing, subject to, or wrap mortgages. They’ve acquired properties for very little down in some of the most competitive neighborhoods in the country, growing wealth WITH the time freedom they desired. Jenn and Joe give invaluable advice on which strategies work for which seller, the easiest way to get leads sent to you, and how you build wealth with real estate faster.  In This Episode We Cover: The EASIEST way to get dozens of off-market properties sent to you EVERY DAY The best creative financing strategies and when to use each Wrap mortgages explained and taking advantage of someone else’s low mortgage rate  Time freedom and the “golden handcuffs” that stop you from accomplishing your dreams The one thing you should ask EVERY seller before you buy a property  Investing with a spouse and the benefits of building a business together And So Much More! Links from the Show Find an Agent Find a Lender BiggerPockets Youtube Channel BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Pro Membership BiggerPockets Bookstore BiggerPockets Bootcamps BiggerPockets Podcast BiggerPockets Merch Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Learn About Real Estate, The Housing Market, and Money Management with The BiggerPockets Podcasts Get More Deals Done with The BiggerPockets Investing Tools Find a BiggerPockets Real Estate Meetup in Your Area David's BiggerPockets Profile David's Instagram David’s YouTube Channel Work with David Rob's BiggerPockets Profile Rob's Instagram Rob's TikTok Rob's Twitter Rob's YouTube Hear Our Recent Episode with Creative Finance Master, Pace Morby What Is Creative Financing And How To Use It In Real Estate Connect with Jenn & Joe: Jenn's BiggerPockets Profile Jenn Instagram Joe Instagram Jenn & Joe's Facebook Group Jenn & Joe's YouTube Click here to listen to the full episode: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-794 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email [e-mail]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 794. We were living in New York. I was dating her for two weeks and I said, hey, I'm going to go visit my grandparents of Florida. Do you want to come? I'll pay for the whole trip. And she was like, you're crazy. I met you for two weeks, but sure. So I take her to Florida and our dream wants to eventually move there.

But we thought, you know, when you're 60 and 70, when we retire, we could finally move there. And so we knew we wanted to build an income to support that. So once we kind of stumbled upon this way of how to buy these gorgeous houses and beautiful neighborhoods with a hundred bucks down. That's what it was like, wow. What's going on, everyone? This is David Green, your host of the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast here today on location in Maui, Hawaii. For once, I'm the one traveling and Rob is not. He's staying at home. He's been traveling a whole lot before this. So Rob, how does it feel to be in the comfort of your cockpit in the studio ready to launch another fire episode? Listen, it feels great, but I would rather be in Hawaii.

be very honest. Yeah, and I'm getting to hang out with all your friends, by the way. Tony's hanging around. He's there. Yep, a lot of short-term mental. You said he looks like he's been lifting, which is scary for me because Tony and I are actually in a fitness competition for the next two months. You got into a fitness competition with Tony Robinson. Well, listen, it's not like based on who, like, uh, is the most muscular or anything like that. I'm obviously going to lose that. I actually think it's based on the winner is whoever loses the most body fat percentage by the end of the three months and we've been doing it for about about a month. Okay, you got an advantage there because Tony walked in with like 11% probably and you're more. Well, well, first of all, out, but second of all,

totally agree. And I've been, I've been a very diligent boy. Okay, I've been waking up early. I talk about it a little bit later in this episode, but I've been really slicing and dicing my morning routine, trying to wake up early, trying to hit the gym and then trying to walk 10,000 steps a day and then start seven LLCs before the work, before the work day actually starts. I love it. I love seeing this part of Rob. I've often said you and Brandon Turner, though you look very different, have the same personality. And Brandon's like this too. Like he just doesn't work out at all.

Then he gets a B in his bonnet that he wants to go do something. He trains for six weeks and he does a triathlon. You're like that. You have like a ferocious work ethic that when it gets activated, you just decide you're going to go run five miles when you haven't been running at all. It's very impressed. That consistency is hard. My wife is training for a half marathon right now in October.

And she's like, I've ran. two half marathons without training for them. And she's like, are you going to, are you going to do this with me that's signed up? And I was like, I'll decide the week before. Okay. There's not a joke. So I might run a half marathon in October. We'll see.

It sounds like something that you would do. Well, in today's show, we're not going to be talking just about fitness, but we do have a financially fit couple that is going to blow your mind. Today, Rob and I interview Jen and Joe Delafave, who have a fantastic story, a fantastic relationship, a fantastic business, and a fantastic approach to real estate investing. This couple has figured out how to get off-market deals and use creative financing or other methods that we talk about on this show to do things that will, frankly, blow your mind. You're going to fall in love with them and this episode.

I don't want to take too long talking about it because the episode's a little bit longer. There was just too much good stuff that we really wanted to get out of it. What were some of your favorite parts, Rob? You know, this is a power couple. They're very nice, good people. And it's, I think, creative finance and subject to, that's obviously like all the rage right now because it's a really great way to take on real estate in this current economy and market. And it's just, it's nice to hear their approach and hear more people doing it out there.

And they just really make it seem so achievable. If you stick around until the very end, you're going to hear how they source leads from Facebook and the amount of leads that they get and the amount of leads that they're actually closing is pretty mind-blowing. And it made me feel like, hey, you know, I think I could do that too, which is really what we want everyone. I saw the wheel turning in your head when they said that. I'm like, oh, Rob's texting his team.

Hey guys, this is what we're doing right now. Facebook. Drop the, drop the, it's cleaner. Before we get into the interview with them, today's quick tip. There was so much good information in this episode that we are going to be releasing a bonus deal deep dive along with the episode so that you can get even more information. Jen and Joe break down an actual deal they're working through and explain how they got paid to purchase the property. So today's quick tip is go listen to the bonus material as soon as the show is done. Rob, anything you want to say? Yeah, quick tip number two, go watch the social network so you understand my Facebook joke that I made.

I feel like that one was just like, whoop. Fell very flat. It fell flat. But if you saw the movie, you'll get it. The good old Justin Timberlake will help bring that one home for you. Let's get to Jen and Joe. Most investors spend more time chasing deals than reviewing their insurance. But a quick coverage check can be fast, easy, and one of these smartest ways to protect

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Talk to NREG and get investor-specific coverage from specialists who actually understand real estate at NRE.com slash BPPod. That's N-R-E-I-G.com slash B-Podd. Did you know your house gets bored when you leave? I can't actually prove that, but it probably misses out on the action, the footsteps, the late-night fridge raids. Yeah, when you're gone, your place is basically on unpaid leave. It's sitting there in the dark thinking, I could be contributing right now.

Your side room wants a side hustle. Even your Wi-Fi is like, we could be networking. You're on vacation, spending money like it's a sport while your staircase at home is fully capable of sending your income upwards. Here's the twist. You can go on a trip and actually earn money. Airbnb makes that possible with the co-host network. If you're away for a while or have a secondary property, you can hire a vetted,

local co-hosts with real hosting experience to handle it all. A co-host can handle guest communications. It can manage reservations and keep things running smoothly so you don't have to check your phone between beach days. That means less stress and more time enjoying your trip. You can relax, knowing guests are taking care of and your place is in good hands. You travel, your house works. Everyone wins. If you're ready to host but could use some help, find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. Jen and Joe Delafave, welcome to the podcast. How are you today? Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Thanks for having us. Yeah. All right. So first things first, where are you living? It looks like you're in a modern day designed barn that Joanna Gaines had a hand in. Is this a Magnolia special or is this just siding and you're in a house?

We are actually in our office, which is south of Tampa. We are in Florida right now. This is where we live. So we have our office here. Sometimes we work from the office. Sometimes we work from home. Okay. Weather is nice to simmer. You're in Florida. I'm in Hawaii right now. Rob's in Houston.

Between the three of us, there's enough humidity to give a baby path. Who do you think is sweating the most right now? It's pretty humid here. I don't know. I don't know. Houston's pretty bad. It's rare that Houston loses that battle, I will say. Well, come on down to South Florida.

Yeah, that's true. When you go to Scottsdale, when Rob and I are there, it's so nice when it's hot but not humid. Like a dry heat is just so much more tolerable than when it's. it's really human outside. Yeah, the country doesn't seem to matter. People are moving to Tampa in record numbers. Houston is growing as well. You don't really have to convince anybody to go to Hawaii.

So maybe there's something to investing in humid-friendly state. So we know you live in Tampa. Do you invest there as well? We do. Yeah. We love this area. And this is kind of why we came as for a vacation. We were already buying in this area.

So it just made sense to get out of the cold and be closer some of the places where we are buying. Okay. So where did you come from? We were originally from Rochester, New York, upstate, really cold, very, very gray. And so when we started working together full time and just being all stuck in a house, it was short-lived. I really knew that if we could get to a warmer climate, we'd be able to enjoy so much more. So what's it feel like to be a trendsetter to be a couple of that mood from New York to Florida?

I've never thought of anyone doing this. What did it feel like to just be on the front lines of innovative movement? You know, it took a lot of guts to really put ourselves out there. No, really. I mean, if you go to any chat, everyone says Florida's full. But while there is a lot of traffic, you know, if you love this weather and the beaches and there's so many perks to it, you know, don't be shy. Don't be afraid to do it. You know, I always think, you're not a tree. You can pick up and move anywhere. We brought our two kids. They're as happy as could be. So, you know, if it's in your heart, do it. You could always move back. That's a great point. I mean, we're going to get into your investing career here, but I am interested because I know a lot of the are here and they don't love where they live, but they can tolerate it. Because if you hate something, you'll figure out a way to get out of it. If you're incredibly uncomfortable or in pain, you'll make change. And if you have a vision of what you really want, you might actually go make that happen too. But 90% of the world gets stuck in the middle where we are comfortable enough to live with it, but not comfortable enough to be super thrilled with where we are.

Rob, I know you and your wife have moved everywhere. Like you're like, I want to invest in the Smoky Mountains. I'm moving to the Smoky Mountains. I'm eating dinner at the restaurants. I'm smelling the air. I'm going to see the whole thing and that's going to help your investing career. Maybe we'll ask you before we come back to Jen and Joe, do you think that was wise to bounce around from city to city as you were learning how to invest? Is that something you'd recommend? I would not bounce around from city to city for the purpose of learning how to invest in said city. There's a lot that I learned moving to the city because I thought I had to live there because I was building that tiny house village out there. And I was like, oh, if I move out there, I can be there

in the action and get all my permits and this and that. And what I learned after a year of living there was I really didn't need to be there at all. I could have just flown in maybe two or three times and skipped the giant cross-country move. But nonetheless, I'm happy to have done it. I encourage anyone to move. If you've ever thought about it, it will change your life for the better, I think, because it always just gives you more perspective about how much to love where you're going to finally end up, I think. So live where you want and invest where you want. Yeah, totally. You've been investing for years. When did you go? all in as full-time investors. It kind of afforded you this ability to move around.

So that happened in March of 2020 when obviously the world shut down and we all were safe at home there for a little bit. And we had honestly just signed up for some social media marketing in February, some course we enrolled in. And the whole goal was to bring Joe home. At that point, I was a stay-at-home mom and we're doing the part-time thing. And I really wanted him home. We just never saw each other. And so when March hit and he had to stay home from the dealership, you know, we looked at each other and I was like, this is our chance. Like I know we're in a global pandemic and that's kind of scary. It's probably a terrible time to start this, but we're going.

You know, all in 100%. And luckily through the internet, we were able to grow our real estate. And it was crazy and intense and totally awesome. At the time you did it, did you feel like this is an obvious move? need to make. We need to go all in or where there's some fears about if this was wise. I don't really think I had any fears. I was more upset and scared that he was offered a bigger promotion at the car dealership because it was going to be a little more money, but way more time away from us. And I was like, this is the opposite direction of what I was

looking to do here. Like, I really wanted to work with you. And I just, I had visions of us being together doing this. And that was not it. So when COVID hit, I saw nothing but good. I was super excited. I was like, all right, the family's here. Like, I was a teacher. So I had a leg up with virtual school and helping the kids out with that. And it was total chaos, you know, trying to, you know, take care of everything. But we did it.

Now, you two have really become creative finance experts over the years. What creative finance strategies are you using to be able to have the success you are? So every deal like us is a little bit different. We love helping sellers out who are, who want to sell their, house who really don't want or even, you know, consider a lowball cash offer. And so the one benefit that we have is that folks love that we could buy their house and pay full price for it. And we can make those terms work for them.

And they're excited that they're getting top dollar. And so we use a lot of strategies. We buy what's called, and it's a technical term. It's called a wrap mortgage. Some people think there's, you know, sub two is another version. there's a lease purchase where you could just lease the house with the ability to purchase it later on. So there's a lot of different ways that you can control and buy real estate. And that was the key to us breaking away is because we learned years and years and years prior

that we can buy all of the real estate we want without having to go to the bank anymore, without having to use very little to sometimes no cash. And even if you've got bad credit, it doesn't make a difference. And we both had good credit. But even if you've got bad credit, like it makes no difference. You could buy all of the real estate you want once you kind of understand just the way to communicate and ask sellers, you know, who are in a situation that you could help. Yeah.

So we know subject two, right? That's basically assuming someone's loan. Obviously there's some clarification that could be like pushed into there further. But I think a lot of the people listening today, if you don't know much about subject too, we just did an interview with Pace Morby. I think it just came out this month. Go check that out. It sort of breaks down that entire concept.

but something that he actually, this says that very timely, because he was like, maybe I'll come on and do an episode about raps. We did not talk about raps. I just heard you mentioned that. Can you just quickly explain the concept of a rap in how that's, I guess, in the same world as subject to? Yeah, so there's really just a couple small differences. And the reason why, and I guess, you know, who likes vanilla ice cream, who likes chocolate ice cream, right? So they're very similar, but they're different. So the difference is when you buy a property subject to the loan stays in the seller's name. So you're technically not assuming it, it still stays in place, but they're giving you the deed to the property. So they sell you the house. The deed goes to you, but the loan stays in their name.

And the reason why I like a rap a wrap a little bit more is because the same thing happens where they deed you the property, but what a rap does, it puts a new mortgage, which is not money. It's just a promissory note. It's a few pages. And what that does now, it makes a new loan between you and the seller. So long story short, it creates a note. And with having that wrap mortgage in place, now if my seller, if the buyer doesn't pay, if I don't pay them, they could foreclose on me and take the property back, which makes it really handy for it protects the seller, really.

That's why I like rap so much. And then it happens from time to time. They'll call us and say, Joe, I have this mortgage in my name and I want to buy a new house. And the folks down at the mortgage company say, because I have this debt. in my name, you know, it's making it hard for me to get my new loan. So the neat thing about is when we do it on a wrap, we just say, show them your closing docs and the new note that we made. You give that to them and that's going to help alleviate your DTI situation. So it makes it easier for the gun to get a loan because we've had some years later say, I need to get a mortgage

and this loans in my name. I'm like, no problem. We'll get you through it. And we do. So there's really just the small differences. It's just more technical stuff. Okay. And tell me a little bit about, because I've also heard of wraps in the concept of you're also wrapping like a new mortgage or new interest rate in that as well. Is that a different kind of sector of wraps? Because I know that sometimes whenever you're doing a subject to loan, you get that interest rate that's on their loan. On a wrap, those terms can change a little bit as well, right? Well, you can buy it or sell in a wrap. So what you're hearing in that situation, somebody buys it subject to. So say maybe the rate was 3%. And then I'm going to sell that house.

to somebody else and I could charge them another point or two, right? And then that payment goes up and I make the difference. That's not a strategy that we implement and we could get into that a little bit. That's why we love our rent-to-own. It has, I think, far more benefits than just selling a property on a wrap. So you can buy on a wrap. You can also sell in wraps. However, when we do it, our rent-to-own strategy, I think is the best in the game.

All right. So let's get a little bit of clarity here. When you're talking about a wrap, you are taking over the existing mortgage, first off, correct? Like regular what we understand is subject to. Then you are getting a second loan from the owner of the property who's now become the seller, and that loan is going to be in second position to the first one. So you make a payment to them, and then are they making the payment to the original loan, or are you making both of those?

We make, it's the same payment as what they currently have. So say for an example, I buy in a wrap and their payment is $1,000 a month for rough numbers. The new note will be for the same thing. And we just pay that directly to their bank. I don't pay it to the seller, hoping that they're going to turn around. And that just gets one more level of something to happen. So we just pay, if it's through Wells Fargo, we just send it directly to Wells Fargo. Okay.

So you make one payment to the bank for the first mortgage. Then you make a second payment to the seller for the second mortgage? Nope, because it's the same pay. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Yeah, okay. You got it. Yeah.

If there's any overage, but generally when I'm buying it, It's what we call a mirror wrap. So it does the exact same payment, the exact same interest rate. So if your payment is $1,000 per month, that's exactly what I'm paying. We don't pay anything over that to the seller typically. So then I get, I'm a little confused then. Where does this second position note to the seller come in if you're not making a payment to them, the rap part?

That's a new note that you're going to create. So that's what they call the mirror wrap. So for an example, we're doing one right now in Tennessee. The folks owe $303,000 on their house. their interest rate is 3%. The payment is like $1,600 a month. So what we're doing is they're selling to us for what they owe.

It's a house bill in 2017. So I could take it over subject too because I'm buying it for what they owe and they'll just deem me the property. But the difference is if they want to get a mortgage later on, that could cause some issues. So I buy it for 303 for their $1,600 payment. And then that creates just a new note

around that existing one. And so it pays the same exact payments. There's no extra payments going to the seller at all. So it's just a promissory no. Yeah, this is going to say. So it basically just wraps it up a little bit different in a different, I guess, rapper, if you will, so that whenever they go to the mortgage company,

the mortgage company isn't necessarily getting stopped up on the DTI and everything like that. Because the way they've written it up just helps with the underwriting. Yes. So now I can see that Joe and Jen, our company, is making that payment. And we have that recorded, right? So they're going to show that our company's now making that payment.

So when you have to go to a new lender, they're going to be able to show that there's a new note in place showing that we're making that payment. Okay. And then further question, Your Honor. If you're making that payment and then that helps with your underwriting with the DTI and everything, are you able to completely knock out that DTI? Are you only able to use like 75% of that payment towards your DTI? Or is it case by case? Yeah. Most of the times it depends on the lender.

Everyone's going to be a little different. Small credit unions might do it, look at it different, but generally it's 75% after a year. So here's the situation that would I love to look at when I'm talking to a seller. If they say, Joe, I'm going to buy a house in a few more years, then I could just buy it on a wrap. Because I know 12 months from now, they're going to be able to wash out at least 75% of that DTI.

But sometimes folks say, I need to get a new house right now, and I need to get this off my name. So the benefit of why we love having a lease option is that lease, that new lease, will wipe out their DTI immediately. Okay. So I think I understand a little bit better where you're getting at. You're not getting the mortgage off of their credit report. You're not getting it out of their name.

It's still going to show up if they want to go buy a house, that they have a $1,600 month payment associated with a property, but they no longer own that property. You own it. It's been deeded to you. However, you are creating another note that you owe them that mortgage balance for whatever the equivalent was $1,600, that they could say, listen, we get $1,600 in income, but we have $1,600 expensive. Theoretically, it washes out.

And I see that most banks will let them use 75% of that income to qualify for their next mortgage. So this is a way to help a seller feel better about deeding their property to you, but not having the loan paid off because the fear would be, well, it's going to be harder for me to go get another house because I still have this debt that I owe on the house that I don't know. Is that correct? You said it spot on. Boom. Perfect, man. I was like, oh, yeah, that's what I thought too. I just, you said it so much better. It's like an accounting move, right? You're like, okay, on one end of your ledger, you have this weight. So we have to add a counterweight over here, but you're not actually

moving money around. You're just creating these notes. You are 100%. It's just a handful of pieces of paper. it's all it is. There's no money. There's none of that. Okay. And this would differ from traditional subject to because in traditional subject to, they don't have any source of income that they can come back and tell a lender, well, we don't actually make that $1,600 month payment. The lender's going to, for the next house would say, well, you're obligated to make it. I don't know where that money's coming from. If somebody else is making the payment, Uncle Sam's not seeing that. So as far as I'm concerned, I have to add this $1,600 payment to your debt. It makes it harder for them to go buy their next property or buy their next car, whatever they want to use a line of credit for.

And there are some ways around it. It's just a little bit more challenging. And that's why the note is just the easiest, cleanest way to do it. And it's super easy to do it that way. But that note's not recorded against the property. That's what you were saying earlier. It's just a promise story note that they can show. Yeah, we do have it recorded as a mortgage against the property. And they do. They show it to the underwriters. And that's what makes it help with them purchasing a new house. Okay. So you did what entrepreneurs do. You solved a problem. I want to buy your health subject too. This is a thing that stops it. Let's solve that problem. Now you're out there rapping the real estate rappers. Have you guys thought about

calling yourselves that? There we go. I'm a trademarker right now. You know, you know what's very funny. Actually, when Pace said that he was, he's like, I'll come back and do an episode about wraps. All of the comments, they didn't understand. I guess they thought he meant like RAPS wraps. And he was talking about obviously WRAPS. And so they're all like, yeah, come back and do the rap. Yeah, write the rap pace. We'd love to see you rap. And I was like, different, different rap. Yeah, I mean, he's talented enough. He might do both. You know, David has bars too, though. Oh, we got to do that. I actually started off my mic test with literal rapping. And Rob was not very kind about it. So yeah, you say that in front of people,

but when we're alone, he's very abusive, actually. Yeah, but on camera, I build you up because you're my bud, but off camera, we're mortal enemies. All right, so you've got this business that you guys have been expanding. Can we explain the roles of the business? We'll start with you, Jen. What is it that you're doing in this business, that partnership? Yeah, absolutely. So as we've grown, we have team members like Joe mentioned.

And so I've kind of evolved into like the integrator, C.O, just making sure like operations or everything is flowing from the leads coming in to, you know, that eventually the people that will buy the deals or are rent-to-own buyers or are. positions. And I just kind of oversee all of that. Definitely, like, I love marketing. I love being the face of our company. So really making sure that our branding is on point. And just making sure all parties are on the same page and everybody's staying super organized, especially as we're, you know, going to go virtual the month of July. We're going to travel. So I want to make sure that everybody is on the same page with everything. But Joe is definitely the deal maker. He loves talking to sellers.

Joe, you're the people person. Well, we're both people, people, but I just love, I don't know. I'm one of the guys who I love what I do. I love real estate. If I wasn't here doing this, I'd be still talking about it and doing it. I just, I'm like that. I'm built different maybe. But so I love looking at deals.

I like looking at houses, pretty ones. I like looking at ones that are all to make pretty again. Helping people figure out what's going on in their life. And if we could help them and point them in the right direction, if we can't buy it, is important. So tell me, this. I think that creative finance sub two, all this stuff is always so mind-meltingly confusing on the surface at the beginning, right? Because you're like, wait, you just assume the property and sellers do this.

And it really doesn't make sense. I have this conversation every single time with investors that want to get into creative finance. But then it's like so simple once you explain it, right? We just worked through that. And it's like, oh, yes, makes a lot of sense. And y'all are very knowledgeable on this. So when you got into creative finance, how much did you know about it? Like, how did you even get into the world of negotiating sub twos and wraps?

Is this something that came naturally from you? Or did you kind of figure it out as you went? So my poor wife. It was not easy for me at first. Numbers weren't my thing is what I used to say. And it gets to be a little overwhelming when you're getting overloaded with lot of information. Because before that, we were buying houses with cash, rehabbing them, you know, renting them.

We didn't even know what Burr was, right? Then we'd refinance and repeat. Well, you knew what it was because you lived in freezing Rochester, New York. You were. Yeah. But not the real estate, Burr. Yeah, we were doing it, not knowing it had a name until a few years ago. She's like, did you know what we were doing?

It was called Burr. I'm like, what? But this was maybe more than a few years ago. But yeah, because we did that in 2008, 9. But we had a handful of houses. And when we wanted to retire, I knew having a handful of properties probably wasn't going to give us the lifestyle that we wanted. We came to Florida after dating for one month. And we both have this grandeur idea of we're going to move to Florida when we

retire. We love to do it now, but there's no way we could do it now. Looking back on it, how funny is that? But we in 2016, I stumbled upon just different strategies that I started really diving into. And this is kind of what fell on my lap was how to do, how to buy real state without using the banks. And when I kind of wrapped my head around there, the first thing Jen and I did is we went on and we hired some help. We got a coach that walked us through how to do some of these things. And then once a few of these light bulbs that were missing went off, it was like just stand back. Right, right. Because it's so simple once it all kind of clicks. I do want a little bit of clarity on what you just said, though. Did you say you guys were living in

New York and you dated for a month and then y'all moved to Florida? No. Okay, all right. We were living in New York. I was dating her for two weeks and I said, hey, I'm going to go visit my grandparents of Florida. Do you want to come? I'll pay for the whole trip.

And she was like, you're crazy. I met you for two weeks, but sure. So I take her to Florida and our dream was to eventually move there. But we thought, you know, when you're 16 and 70, when we retire, we could finally move there. And so we knew we wanted to build an income to support that. and I knew having a handful of properties probably wasn't going to get that done. So that's why we need to look to how to grow our portfolio a little quicker without having

to put 20% down and get bank approvals every time and have it to go through that. It was just, it was a little bit trickier. So once we kind of stumbled upon this way of how to buy these gorgeous houses and beautiful neighborhoods with, you know, a hundred bucks down, that's what was like, wow. I got to ask, Jen, like, did you? you fall for that. The New Yorker, I have grandparents in Florida, right? Like, there's not that all over the place. Who's then asking you like, yeah, I want to go have you meet grandma and grandpa. They're going to cook us pancakes. We're going to sit in the kitchen table with the roosters in the

kitchen and look at the wallpaper. Like, did you know how charming he was being in that moment and that he was, it was like, that's almost a wedding crashers move. Yeah, I was definitely like, uh, all right. Like I hadn't even met his parents yet, but I don't know. There was something he talked so much about his grandparents and they're from Italy. And so, yes, there was tons of food and I do believe there were roosters in the kitchen. It's amazing what I can figure out without hearing anything. I was playing that game with Brandon yesterday in Hawaii. People would come up to take pictures with us after his event. And I was like, let's try to see how much we can tell about a human being just in the first five seconds of meeting them. And it was like ridiculous how accurate I was with

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you fight more when you're apart. Can you tell me about that dynamic of the partnership and maybe your marriage and how you two were able to get this thing to where you fight more when you're apart, not less? I wouldn't even say it's fight. It's just more like I wasn't happy. So we got this office. We have in-person employees, which was totally new for us.

We had everything virtual prior. And so he started coming to the office every day. And we homeschool our two kids. So I once in a while would come in or bring the kids with me, but, you know, an eight-year-old son sitting here spinning in a chair for eight hours. It's just not happening. But we do involve them. We can get into that a little bit. But, you know, I'm at home and he was at the office.

And I was like, what are we doing? Like, this is kind of going backwards. And I was in it because I understand like, you know, the office feeling, maybe making him more productive. I wasn't quite sure. I don't know. But we've been working from home now the last few weeks. We're doing even more deals. And I feel like the energy and everybody is just like super pumped up. And then I am a control freak. So I have my eyes and hands on everything again. So that's super helpful. But yeah, I just, I love working with him. He's my best friend. And we do enjoy it all the time together. We could probably use more date nights. But we laugh like all day long.

Because it's either some of these things that we come across, like, they're hilarious. And some of these are like, what the? Yeah. So you've got to have fun. I think you can do it. Listen, my wife and I have a system, a process that I've brought to them. And I said, look, it's really hard. The thing I hear parents complain all the time about our date nights and not getting out.

And so we just told ourselves, let's find a babysitter that we like and trust. And every Friday or Saturday or sometimes both, we're going to hire a set whenever she's available. If she's available, she texts us and we go out one to two times a week and that is just like a non-negotiable for us. And it's kind of jarring at first because, you know, it's hard to leave kids at home and everything like that. But now that is sort of our way to really disconnect because, you know, I could totally understand where you're coming from. You work 24-7. You know, my wife isn't nearly as involved. But for both of you, if you're working 24-7, it's like it's really hard to ever break away.

So we've had to put those boundaries in our life just so we can feel normally. and human again and see each other and talk about things that aren't business wife. So that's my task for you. I'll go out there, hire babysitter every single week. I'm going to text you next week and I'm say, did you go out? That's actually, we hired a babysitter and I stole her. Yeah, we hired her for the business. We found our manager on care.com and I talked to Jen and she was like, she just graduated college. She wants a job in sales. She sounds fantastic. We meet her. She babysits the kids. The kids love. her. I come back. We offer her an interview. She comes in. We hire her day one. I'm like, all right, pull up Zillow. And she's like, what's that? And I'm like, oh, boy, we got a little

bit of training to do. And she's come a long way. Five months later, she is absolutely amazing now. Okay. So you took the right steps. You might have taken a few side steps hiring her for the business. That's actually the opposite of what I've recommended of breaking business. I know, but now we're out a babysitter. Yeah. We'll go find a new one. Find a new one. I'm going to be asking you about this. All right, so you gave us an idea of sort of like your life, a little bit, your jobs. But can you paint a picture of really what your life was like before real estate, before you had sort of mastered the art of creative finance and sub two and all that good stuff? Yeah.

So I'm working at a car dealership. Jen's a teacher. When we very first met, she had her own home. I did too. And within a few months, I'm taking her to look at some, like, junk house. She's like completely doesn't understand why are we looking at more. houses when we already have two, right? But we got into that. But our dream was to once we had kids, Jen was going to walk away from her job. And prior to that, we hardly ever got to see each other.

I would wake up at like 4.30, hit the road by 6.30, maybe earlier if it was a blizzard, right? I had like a 45 minute to an hour commute there. And he sometimes didn't get home until 10 o'clock at night. And then he had Fridays off. And obviously being a teacher, I worked Monday through Friday. we saw each other maybe Sundays. And on Sundays, you know, it was trying to fit in family and everything else. So, you know, it was hard because you meet the person you want to spend the rest of your life with. And I'm like, but there's no time just to see this person. So we really started evaluating.

Everybody thought it was crazy. You know, I went to college, got my master's degree. I loved teaching, loved English, like all of it. And then to step, that was a hard choice, too, to deal with, you know, what people were going to think of me, even my family kind of question. You spent all this money in college. What are you doing? You're throwing your life away.

But I just knew that that was not the case and that there was something greater. And so my advice for people is just don't focus on what other people think is right for you. And always truly, you know, do what your calling is and follow that. Yeah. Yeah. So you're kind of you're starting to feel it, right? You're like, wow, I'm not even getting to see the person that I love most. So what was that tipping point for you all?

I think it was my wife's birthday. I remember I'm sitting there at my job. I had to work all day. and she came up to him where I work and she's like, can we at least go get lunch? And I was going to take my one hour lunch break. And one of the managers comes out and says, hey,

I know it's your wife's birthday. I know you're going to go to lunch, but can you just not? And can you just come and work with this customer instead for like that hour? And I just remember being in my head thinking to myself, yes, I'm making the money, but this is not fulfilling me.

This is not me. I'm like 30 something years old. I'm, I think financially I'm doing okay. I've got a beautiful wife. I'm happy, but I wasn't getting my dreams fulfilled. And I just felt like didn't matter how much money I made up my job. I felt like it was just taking me not where I wanted to go. And so it was that day.

I still remember from my head. I was like, okay, I got to get out of this car business. I got to do something different. They call it the golden coffin. And they call it that for a reason. And it's, they make, they just pay you enough, just enough not to quit. They pay you enough not to leave. And then whatever that number is, they'll pay just a crack over that, right?

And so to me, that was the thing. And so I was like, you know what? We're going to figure something out to where we could work together. We could do this full time. We didn't think it was going to be as quick as it did. But glad it happened that way, wouldn't change it for the world. Yeah, we call that in advertising, call it the golden handcuffs. You know, and it's like, yeah, it's pretty good.

And I'm not mad to be handcuffed right now, but I wouldn't mind being in a better place, right? And it's pretty tough. It's pretty tough when you're doing all right. right and making that change. But that's a big sacrifice, right? Kind of what you just talked about. Were there any other things that you sacrificed along the way? Our kids. For me, I missed everything. Days of school, picking them up, going to events, different things. I mean, I had to work weekends. Even date nights were hard because you plan on leaving at five. So I'd make reservations for 6.30. Then somebody walks in at 5 o'clock and they want to be there until 630. So I don't

get out of work until late. Reservations are no longer. And we'd miss dinner. night, you know, even we did have a date. And then when we started having kids, that was also the final. Like, I'm missing way too much of the stuff of our kids growing up. And I got to work with a lot of really amazing people, my car dealership, the owners who are all really wealthy and successful. And the one thing they all had in common was they always said that, yeah, money's great, made a lot of money, but I missed my kids growing up. And that wasn't one thing I was willing to negotiate. Like, that was not going to be something I was going to miss doing. And so the fact that we can homeschool our kids and they help work in our real estate business.

And we travel all over and they come with us, even in real estate events, they come with us. I mean, they're at one just a couple weeks ago. And they love meeting these people. And so at eight and 10 years old, they're, man, they're doing awesome already for their age. So it's just, that's what we want. That's what you're trying to be a parent to be. Totally. What about you?

What did the sacrifice look like on your end? Because it sounds like you are helping run the business, but then you're also, you're, you're, you know, managing the kids, not managing, but, you know, I don't know, maybe a little bit. Sounds like they're crushing it now too. But, you know, what was that like? Yeah, I think it's a it's a chosen sacrifice. You know, I knew when I looked into homeschooling that if I was going to run a business or multiple businesses and also homeschool my kids, then I will have to have less time for myself. And that's a, that's something I'm willing to give up right now. Um, there's tons of socialization and like things I can do with the kids. It's so fun. And I enjoy

then it fills my soul. But at the same time, you know, I don't have a ton of friends. I don't watch Netflix all the time. You know, I'm not out partying. You know, I try to read books for fun and cook and do my little hobbies. But there's always a give and take for sure. And, you know, like what Joe says, something sounds so stupid, maybe, but I remember every Monday was garbage night. And I remember every Monday I had take out the garbage and recycling and it'd be like negative 20, right, in the middle of winter. And everybody else's husband, it seemed, would, like, bring out the garbage. And here I am dragging out because he's still at work and it's dark out. And I was like, why?

Like, why can't we just, like, be together? Like, he could help me with the garbage. So I kind of giggle now because he does help me. And you can't leave Florida garbage out. Let me tell you that. Like, you've got to make sure that goes out. But, you know, it's just you really look at those small moments in your life and, you know, you have to be grateful for how far you're coming and know that there is a price that you

pay and, you know, just keep your eye on the prize and know, why you're doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have any tips for parents that are busy and working and trying to get into real estate? Are there any non-negotiables for you? Absolutely. I think the biggest one that actually works, so we're told, because we do it too, is finding the cracks of your day. I call them mom cracks, but I know not everybody is a mom, but every day, everybody has little bits of time. So I think we often overwhelm ourselves with, I have to spend three hours on this task of calling sellers or analyzing properties. You don't have three hours. Let's be honest, right? And or maybe you do, but by then you're scrolling. But what is the 10 minutes or the 20 minutes or your lunch break or

listening to something on the way to your job? You know, just really utilizing your time better, you know, throwing that book out atomic habits. I think you talk about habit stacking. Like, I love that concept. Just using your time wisely and really being aware of it. So if you're struggling with I don't have time, then for three days in a row, write down. the time you wake up to the time you go to bed every hour, what you did. And don't change anything and see where your time is going. And then you'll really quickly realize you have a lot more time than you probably thought it's just going to places that doesn't need to be going. It's a great tip. That is a great time audit. Rob Deerdick talked about this and he tracks literally every single

aspect of his routine, how long he spends eating, how long he spends showering, how many breaths he takes a date. No, I'm just kidding. Actually, I don't know. Maybe he does. Yeah, maybe he does track it to that degree, but it really does kind of shed light. And by the end, he's like, oh, maybe you'll start tracking. And I was like, I think I'm too scared to find out the answer, the answer on, where I'm spending my time. But I totally agree. I think usually you probably have to start with what time you're waking up. And recently, I just feel like I'm always frustrated at 5 or 6 p.m. when I close my computer because I didn't feel like I accomplished anything. And I'm not a morning person. And so recently I've been waking up at 530 or 6 and it's difficult. And I don't

like it and I don't understand how people do it. But I do feel like that was the big change for me. And it's because I was looking, I did exactly what you said. I was looking at my, my habits and my time and things weren't just working. They weren't working just starting at nine o'clock every day. So yeah, so great tip for everyone at home. I wanted to kind of ask because you say that you now coach new investors and you've mentioned how important it is to these investors to figure out which creative finance strategy that they should be using before we get. into all that, can you just walk us through what the different strategies are? Yeah. So if they have a free and clear property and they don't owe anything on it, we're buying one right now and right outside

of Boston on a free and clear property. That's just straight seller financing. Those are really easy to negotiate because you're really just going to figure out the price, the monthly payment, the term length, and any down payment. But sometimes these folks have a mortgage in place. And So there you can buy it a few different ways. You can buy it with what we talked about earlier, a rap mortgage or subject to. Or sometimes folks really don't want that sale completed yet because, you know, they're a little bit worried. So we also could buy it on a lease purchase, which is a really easy way to do it too.

There's been times where I've talked to a seller and I ask them, you know, well, what happens if you don't sell the house? They say, well, I'm probably just going to lease it. That's when I go into, well, why don't you just lease it to me with the option to buy it? And then what I'll do is I'll rerunt it to somebody else and I'll manage everything. And you'd be surprised how many folks are really open to that option. So that's just another way to, you know, get into it. And then sometimes I'll say, would you rather me just buy it now rather than leasing it.

And the way I could buy it is with the seller financing, then I turn it down to there more. So those are really the big four. There's probably a lot more to do. You could get into technical stuff like hoteling, which we do. Subtail. And you're going down a rabbit hole. But I love the strategy. And it seems like so many of these strategies can and do work, especially for your current portfolio.

How did you two land on which creative strategies to focus on? So I want to control the property. I want to own it. So when I'm looking at a lease purchase, I don't own the property. So that's kind of almost at the bottom of the total poll. Everyone I'm looking for, I'm talking to sellers. If a seller has a property, it's free and clear. it's always just going to be straight seller financing.

If they owe a mortgage on the property, that's going to be we're going to buy it on a wrap. So those are the real two strategies that we focus on. But once again, you might have a seller who's a little hesitant and giving you their deed while the loan stays in their name. And so that's why we offer them a lease purchase. So really what we do is we don't have like one way.

We talk to sellers and we find out how can we help them. So I'll give me an example, the one we had in Boston, and she has a condo there. She wants $300,000 for it. And it's probably worth more than that. It was built in 07. So in Boston, that's like new because it's such an old city.

And all the people who she reached out to before us were all offered her cash numbers at $200,000. She says, I will really need $300,000 for the property. I bought it for $250,000 in 2007. It went down when the market crash and it finally got back up. And I want to sell it now for $300,000. I've got tenants in there. They're moving out in June.

She does not want to, to put in the market. So we bought it for $300,000. We're putting down $5,000 because it's free and clear. And our mortgage to her is at 1.5% interest. So is she happy? Yes. We're paying her $100,000 more than all the other cash investors. And I'm paying her a small amount of interest on top of that, too. So when she looks over the term length, we're paying her way, way more than anybody else would afford that deal. And on that deal, we're going to cash flow really nicely because once you add in the tax, the HOA and all that, there's a really nice spread. No. And it leaves us a really nice spread because our rate is only one and a half percent. Yeah. I mean, if you think about your interest that

you're going to pay, I mean, let's just say that you were able to get a 5 percent interest rate right right now. You can't. But let's say that you could. The interest that you would pay on that same loan would be like hundreds of thousands of dollars more than what you're going to pay on 1.97. So in that case, like, look, yeah, maybe you are, quote, unquote, overpaying. Maybe it sounds like it was still like a pretty decent deal, but it's totally worth it if you plan on holding this thing for 30 years. Well, and that's kind of the point. I think that ARV, I'm just going to pay and it's all it needs, but it's probably worth, I would think 325 to 335 range. So I think I still got a really nice deal on it. And at 1.5% with only 5 grand down and now I own a cash flowing asset, that's what we love.

And it's not a house built in the 1700s or 1800s. It's a condo built in 07. So it's a pretty nice shape still. That's really cool. And Jen, how big is your portfolio? How many deals have you done in the creative finance space total? We've done close to a hundred deals total. But I think current portfolio we have, I think it's 27 or 28 right now. We have a handful of we're buying. We have about a dozen deals in process right now. Wow. That's, okay, so you've done 100 deals doing this. Those other. I guess 70 or so that you don't currently own, were those just flips or assignments? What happened to those other other deals kind of within your portfolio? Yep. So sometimes we flip them. Sometimes we do what our favorite is our rent-to-own method. So we help actually, which is really cool, is we help turn renters into owners. And so over time, some of these folks, and we have one right

now, it's a great case study. One, they're buying out their house currently. And they're going to close, I think it's June 4th, I forgot to tell you, or June 3rd. And so. Yeah, you forgot to tell you right here on the podcast, so you'll let you know from hundreds of thousands of people. Well, I just talked to the attorney this morning. I knew it was in process. I didn't know what the date would be.

Yeah, so we got the date now, which is great news. So, you know, these folks moved in the house in 2017. They gave us $32,000 to move in. They've been paying rent for the last six years. And I think we made, we make close to $400 and some change on that. Sometimes the rent's gone up a little bit. of taxes gone up, but that's about what we average. And then once they buy it out, because they are now, we're going to get a check for close to six figures. And so we lose a door.

And everybody's like, oh, you lost a door. Well, guess what? The way that we buy real estate, I could fund five more of those G&E deals, those condo deals, right? Or six more, seven more of those deals. And then how do I turn one property into six or seven more? That's the way to do it. So we could put that money into a 1031 exchange and buy four or five more doors that all average that $3, $500 a month in cash flow. And then because of our strategy, we'll actually get, you know, mountains of money when they move in too. So the way we figured out is we're getting paid to buy these houses right in the beginning.

You've done a great job explaining what you do when the opportunity comes your way. How are you finding these deals, especially in a market like now where it's incredibly difficult to find motivated sellers. It's really hard to find anything that's halfway decent that's not getting multiple offers. So I'm glad you brought that up. That's a really good question. We have, and I'm going to share this with everybody, our secret sauce with you guys. So this is what's currently working today in our business and a lot of folks that we work with across the country.

And we've been able to land deals even last summer in Marco Island, where it's a small, super ultra-ritsy island off of Naples, Florida. It's like the sixth most affluent place in the country. And we're finding deals even there. So what we do is we go into social media. We love Facebook. We joined Facebook groups. So if I'm in Houston, I'm going to go to Facebook.

I'm going to my search bar. I'm going to type in Houston. Then it gives you these options to pick for people, conversations, or groups. I'll click groups. And then I'll join every one of them in Houston. I'll join every one of them, the mom groups, the garage sale groups, every one of them. And then what we do is I make a post in these groups. And this is the post that works really, really well.

We just write, and it sounds simple. Does anyone have a house to sell that's not market ready? My wife and I are looking to buy one in the next two to three weeks. Pause. Say that again. Get your pens ready. Get your pens ready. Does anyone have a house for sale that's not market ready?

my wife and I are looking to buy one in the next two to three weeks. Or I'm looking to buy one in the next two to three weeks. And then what I do, here's the next trick to this. When you type that in there, you could go to a spot where you could click the cool backgrounds and there's a smiley face one. There's the hearts. I just use a simple blue one. It stands out when you're scrolling through Facebook.

People see it in these garage sale groups. So here's what's going to happen now. you hit send you only want to put it in about five six of groups a day if you put it into like 50 facebook will like lock your count out for a little while and be like oh you're spamming right so don't do that put it in five a day six a day some of these groups you'll get nothing there's been a few groups where i've gotten two to 300 comments now not all of them are nice comments some would be like oh you're just trying to buy houses i'm like yes i am right like but a lot of people yeah but a lot of people are going to say, I have a property I'm looking to sell. And I get the DMs are going absolutely

maddening. And if I put that post out today in Tampa, Florida, which is one of the hottest markets around the country, I'll have 25 leads by the end of the day. Incoming, warm leads of people who are reaching out to me saying, I have a property that's not in the market, although some slip through the crack and say it's listed with the realtor, most are off market, and say, I have a property and think about listing in the next few weeks. And then we start asking questions, right? Okay. So I got questions. I have questions. Now it's my turn. So let's go. If you're talking about 25 leads a day, are you calling those 25 leads a day or are you hiring virtual assistants or are you training interns to kind of like get through the preliminary questions? Do you make them fill out

forums? What's the process here? So great question. So what we like to do is we ideally want to get into conversations, but only get on conversations with people who are motivated to sell and want to sell, right? So I think what stops so many new investors is they hate talking to people. They hate, they're scared to pick up the phone. And it's scary sometimes, right? And I understand. So the way that I like to do it is when we, those folks message us. So the first thing I message is, hi, you know, thanks so much for reaching out. Can you please tell me a little bit about the property? And they'll tell you it's a three, four. I've owned it for this. They'd give you the story. I ask them even why are they going to sell it?

How soon do they want to sell it? So I've got some information about the property. We even get into, you know, do you want anything to contractors? How much do you need for the property? How much do you all want it? And they tell us. They tell us about 90-something percent of the time we find out even what they owe on it, what their payment is.

And then if they have motivation and they're nice, we want to get on that phone call, right? Two key words there. If they're not motivated and they're mean, guess where they go? I don't want to waste my time and I don't want to get aggravated talking to somebody who's going to, you know, not be motivated who's not happy.

So really what's helped now is when you're talking to motivated sellers who's reached out to you and you finally do get on the phone with them, those conversations are a lot better. Your closing ratios are a lot higher. You're not going to make every deal. I wish I was that good.

Nobody is. But you try to figure out a way to solve their problem and we can make an offer on every property. because I could offer a cash offer on somebody who maybe has an older fixer-upper house. Maybe they have something like that. But what about the turnkey houses and the beautiful neighborhoods? And they want top dollar for them. Those are all the ones I used to throw away.

Now I just think back of how much money I threw directly into the garbage. Because the properties that I like to buy in Jen is the turnkey houses, that really, really nice house. And if you look at a lot of the ones we've done, we don't really buy, like, can't say we don't because we still do, but we really focus on the pretty houses, the really, really nice ones that are turnkey ready to go. I do want to hear that deal, but you mentioned that sometimes you put in some work to make sure that it's moving ready. Yeah, so one of the questions that we love to ask every time is, does the house need any work before a family with young children can move into it? Because here's what happens. I'm talking to Bob, Sam, whatever their name is,

and I say, does the house in any work? What do they do? They look over their shoulder and they say, no, it looks good to me. It does all the time, right? Because they live there. But when you say, does the house and you any work before a family with young children can move into it? They're like, well, there's no handrail going down the stairs and the stairs you could fall

in and there's a leak. And they'll start divulging a lot more information because it's a different when you have little kids moving in there. And then they feel like they have to tell you like, it's like legally, they're like, Okay, maybe I should mention that there's exposed wiring hanging from the ceiling above the sink. Yeah, got it. Yeah, so we love to ask that question. That's one of the most important ones to know.

And with our questioning, if I were to ask you right in the very beginning, how much do you on your mortgage? You would never tell me that. You never tell me. You know, my chance of me getting that answer go down significantly. But if we've gotten the pattern called pattering where I ask you a question, something easy. Can you tell me about the property? another easy question. Why do you want to sell it?

Another one. How soon? Right? But as we start asking about the contractors and do you owe any amounts to contractors, does a house any work before a family feeling kids can move in? Then we start getting to how much do you own the mortgage? What do you need for the property? What's your monthly payment?

And they just, they'll tell you because now you've built that pattern and the rhythm of asking the questions. Now, guys, you got to remember, this is all done through messaging. We're not even on a phone call at this point because here's the other thing, too. When you are chatting with somebody on Facebook, sometimes, and I'm going to be very blunt. Careful how I word this to the audience, but many times when they see that ad, they might be at their job. They might be most time on a break, a lot times in the bathroom.

Right. So what we've developed was a company policy. And I'm going to be very, I know Jen's already shaking your head. But what happens is there's called Speed to Lead, okay? If somebody sends you an inquiry about selling their house, when do they want to sell it? At this moment, yeah. Right. They just said, yeah, I want to sell my house, right?

They are used to instant gratification. So our company policy is that when somebody reaches out to us, we have to get back to them before they wipe, okay, before they get off that toilet, if that's the case. So under 60 seconds is the key, because once we could get that conversation engaged in 60 seconds unless we get the information. We're able to now schedule that call if they're not. available right then and there versus somebody who reaches out to us and they say, I want to sell my house and I got back to him six hours later or the next day. They've already forgotten and they don't

even care at that point probably, right? Different level of motivation. Okay, so BTW, that's what we call it in the industry before the white. So important though. This is what I constantly banged my head against the brick wall with my realtors on my team. They do not understand that we're not talking like Well, I got back to him within 24 hours. You do not understand the psychology of a brain. When they see a house they want to see or they want to talk to an agent and they send a message, if it's not within 15 to 30 seconds, their brain starts thinking, what else could I do? If it's not within a couple minutes, they start thinking, who else could I ask?

They've already asked another realtor. And then we are like, oh, let me get back to them seven hours later because it works on my schedule. And the person doesn't say you're too late. I already moved on. They just, uh-huh, uh-huh. Okay, yeah, we'll talk later. And but whoever the realtor is that connected first is already often running with the ball. I really think the key is understanding you're in a competition.

Somebody else wants to buy that house. Somebody else wants to get that client. Somebody else wants to land that deal. And when you're too busy, whatever you're doing, expecting that the other person sort of needs to work around your schedule, you lose them. And it's really just understanding that our default. mode as human beings is to be narcissists. We really want someone to work around what we're doing. I'm busy with the kids. I'm in this other meeting. I'm trying to eat lunch right now. Can I, can I eat a sandwich without getting bothered? No, not if you want to make $100,000,

right? That's a $100,000 bite you just took because you didn't want to call back that lead. And that really is the attitude you have to have when you're in this competitive environment. You guys agree? 100%. I've spent so much time and effort into research and integrating and making sure. and you are spot on. I mean, you give somebody 12 hours, and if your closing ratios, say 20%, it cuts in half after 12 hours.

And it's another half after another 12 hours. So if you got back to them 24 hours and you normally could close 20%, your chance of closing number 10%. Like it goes down significantly, so on and so forth. So speed delete is extremely important to make sure that you're able to, it's that instant gratification. And they want answers now.

I want to be able to at least get the questions answered and schedule that appointment to get on the phone if they're not available right away. But we want to get on those calls as fast as possible. Especially with incoming. Yes, especially with incoming, warm leads or hot leads. I think you two are the perfect example of people that obviously enjoy real estate and enjoy people. And so you get to play in this playground that you like every single day. You get to talk to people, find opportunities for deals, you use all of the different techniques that we teach about on podcasts like this to figure out the best disposition for the property, maximize efficiency at every single level based on the

unique traits of the person. It kind of just reminds me of a coach who's coaching a sports team and loves that sport. They're like, okay, they're throwing this defense at us. We could try this. We could try that. We'll go to this person. When you love the sport, it doesn't feel like work. And I'm frequently telling people, this is an incredibly hard market to try to buy enough real estate that you just live off the cash flow and never and never work again. It just, it's not working for almost anyone, but what you're doing can work for people. The more knowledge you gain, the more money you're going to be making in your business. It's an awesome way, I think, to live life, especially that you two get to work together. You're in love. You get to work

a business together. You don't have to be a part. It's a really good success story of an American work ethic in general. And I love, love, love hearing this. Any last words before we let you guys get out of here? I'm just super grateful to be able to share our story. And it just, it is true. And it does take hard work and you got to put your time in, but anything is possible. Yeah. And I think it's, you know, we also love helping other folks who were, you know, maybe they don't understand where to get started. And sometimes we find folks who they say, you know, I have a deal or I think I might have

a seller who's in a situation, but I don't know enough about it. Can you help us? And that's how we got engaged actually with the one in Connecticut they were doing with somebody who listened to our podcast. And his wife does all the time. And they said, well, you know, we actually were at a. situation right now where we know somebody who wants to sell her house. She's been on the house for over a year. But I don't know anything about the deal. So they got a hold of us and we're able to put it

together for everybody. So we also love helping people if you have that potential deal, like reach out to us. I'd love to help you. And, you know, maybe we can help that seller out or at least point her in the right direction, in the right direction. And a lot of times make a deal. And that's what's awesome. Awesome. So if people want to know more about you guys, where can they find you? Yeah. Definitely social media. Like we said, we love Facebook. Jennifer Dela Fave and Joseph Della a fave. We're on Instagram with our names. We have a YouTube channel. It's growing slowly, but it's out there. What is it? Creative finance playbook. We share a lot right on there, too. Is it a right if I share a cell phone number? If you want, you know, this is a very, be careful

what you wish for scenario. So tread lightly, my friend. Give us the digits. All right. So if you have something that you want us to take a look at or, you know, we just need to talk. My cell phone number, This is not a recording. This is actually my cell phone number. It's 585 because it's an upstate New York number. It's where I'm from. 207-2240. That's my cell phone.

So you could call or text. Usually please text first or call. Whatever's fine. I answer my phone unless I'm in a meeting or talking with a seller. But if you have a deal that we want to look at, you need some help. Reach out. We'd love to help. Well, my thoughts are with your cell phone.

And thank you for that. David, what about you, man? What's your phone number? Yeah, that's really good, funny. You can DM me. How about that? On social media at David Green 24. Please do reach out. We love talking to all of you. And on YouTube, I'm at David Green 24. How about you, Rob? You can find me over at Rob Built on Instagram. If you want to see my goofier side and on Rob built on YouTube, if you also, I guess they're both equally goofy. But I do real estate advice on. there. I do. I talk about stuff there. Go, go follow me. Go check it out. And then also, don't forget, if this episode was the episode that you're like, I'm going to do it, I'm going to go to a Facebook group. I'm going to post that I'm looking for a house and it's actually going to cause you to take action while you're taking action. Head on over to the Apple podcast platform and leave us a five-star review so that we get served up to many other people who need that, who need to take the same

action so that they can achieve financial freedom through real estate. Well, thank you too very much for being here. This was an awesome show. We really appreciate both the knowledge you shared and the insight into your life because I think that that is just as important as kind of showing a playbook, if you will, for how to have a good marriage and a good partnership. So it was great getting to meet you guys. This is David Green for Rob, live where you want and invest where you want. Have a solo. Signing on. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and

executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K. Copywriting is by Calicoke content, and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.biggerpockets.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk. So use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. BiggerPockets LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential, or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast.