BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 803: Building a $1.8M Real Estate Portfolio by Outsourcing Your “Weaknesses” w/Andy Gil

Episode Date: August 10, 2023

Want to build a million-dollar real estate portfolio? We’ve got good news for you! You DON’T have to rush full-steam ahead, buying every property that crosses your path to reach financial freedom. That’s right, instead of buying dozens of units a year, you can buy a dozen units within a couple of decades, taking the slow, steady path to building wealth instead of ferociously racing to rack up as many rentals as possible. While it may sound like every real estate investor is constantly on a buying spree, this is far from the truth. Investors like Andy Gil have been able to build seven-figure real estate portfolios without sacrificing time with family or infringing on their morals to make more money. Far from it, actually; Andy is outwardly trying to make it easier for often neglected renters to find a safe place to stay. Through the past two decades, Andy has been building his rental property portfolio up to the twelve units it is today. He never thought he would be the person to buy a house, let alone own a rental portfolio. Still, thanks to his differences that make him a superhero in aspects most investors would dread, he’s built serious wealth without sacrificing what’s important. In this episode, you’ll hear precisely how Andy did it, his “T-Rex” policy that entices renters, outsourcing your weaknesses, and using your differences to build wealth. In This Episode We Cover: Andy’s “T-Rex” rental policy that leads to low vacancy and a steady stream of passive income Outsourcing your weaknesses and why you MUST know what you don’t do well Buying a “fractured condo association” and why Andy is all-in on this uncommon asset class Taking obstacles and turning them into opportunities along your investing journey How multifamily real estate investors can prepare for an upcoming wave of vacancies  Why unit count DOESN’T matter, but the wealth in those units does! And So Much More! Links from the Show Find an Agent Find a Lender BiggerPockets Youtube Channel BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Pro Membership BiggerPockets Bookstore BiggerPockets Bootcamps BiggerPockets Podcast BiggerPockets Merch Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Learn About Real Estate, The Housing Market, and Money Management with The BiggerPockets Podcasts Get More Deals Done with The BiggerPockets Investing Tools Find a BiggerPockets Real Estate Meetup in Your Area David's BiggerPockets Profile David's Instagram David’s YouTube Channel Work with David Rob's BiggerPockets Profile Rob's Instagram Rob's TikTok Rob's Twitter Rob's YouTube A Slow, Steady, and Sustainable Way to Buy Rentals The Ultimate Guide to Adding Systems & Outsourcing to Work Less in Real Estate Going Into Multifamily When You’re Fairly New to Real Estate Connect with Andy: Andy's BiggerPockets Profile Andy's Instagram Click here to listen to the full episode: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-803 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email [e-mail]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockest Podcast show. 8.0.3. I want to cross the $1 million mark in the next two to three years by my personal financial statement. I didn't think that something like this was available to a person like me, but I didn't think I could get in the game. And honestly, if it's available to me, if a guy like me can be doing this, really, you know, if you just add on one skill at a time, develop the skill of developing skills, you know, I feel like almost anyone can do this.

What's going on, everyone is David Green, your host of the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast here today with my co-host, Rob Abasolo, looking even more handsome than usual. If you guys are not following on YouTube right now, you are missing out. Or maybe you're not. The distraction might be so great that it's going to stop you from getting your key performance indicators done. So maybe listening on Apple podcast or Spotify is going to be better for your productivity. Today's show, fantastic.

We get into it with Andy Gill, who is a real estate investor who has slowly built a portfolio based off his strengths, not his weaknesses, at a pace that he is comfortable with, and has overcome some challenges that he had early in life and is very open and authentic about sharing what those were like that many of you listening may relate to. So before we get into this any further, I just like all of you to consider leaving us a comment on YouTube and letting us know if you can relate to anything that Andy, Rob, or I shared about personal struggles we have that has stopped us from being successful in business and how we overcame them. Trust me, you are not the only person. Rob, what do you think that investors are

going to find most valuable about today's show? You know, honestly, I think probably that it's okay to be weak. You know, it's actually kind of fun to figure out your weaknesses. I think a lot of people are ashamed of the things that they're not good at. And so they're scared to really tell people about their weaknesses and stuff. But we kind of unpack this a little bit with Andy and really talk about like, once you figure out those weaknesses, it's actually becomes a strength. because you can start delegating them out and outsourcing it to people that are better than you at those things. And, you know, I really feel like that's when you really hit the turning point in your business. So we get into that quite a bit. We talk about the ADHD component of our brains, me and Andy's. And yeah,

I don't know. We haven't really, I feel like we haven't really ever gotten deep like that before or not, at least in a long while. So I really enjoyed this conversation with Andy. He is a rare, a rare mind. And I love it. Before we get to Andy, today's quick tip is, if you're procrastinating doing something that you hate, try body doubling. Rob, what is body doubling? It's basically when you ask someone to sit in the same room with you as you do something that you don't like so that you feel supported doing the thing that you hate. That's a very good definition. Most investors spend all their time talking about their high level returns. But that's not the number that actually matters. What actually matters is what you keep after taxes. And that's where multifamily. real estate quietly stands out. With built-in advantages like depreciation, the right deals can generate steady cash flow while reducing the tax drag. Bam Capital structures its multifamily investments around

those fundamentals, pairing tax efficiency with disciplined operators and a long-term approach. This isn't about chasing hype or guessing market timing. It's about building durable, tax-aware wealth over time. Learn more at biggerpockets.com slash bam. Here's why savvy real estate investors are obsessed with bonus depreciation. It lets you take that rental property or commercial building you own and depreciate most of the cost against your income. Legally, 100% IRS compliant. That's instant cash flow improvement. Cost segregation guys is the number one firm nationwide, specializing and identifying these faster depreciating assets in your property. They've completed tens of thousands of studies across all 50 states from remote cabins to apartment complexes. So if you

own investment property, this is a no-brainer. So visit costsegregationguise.com slash BP for your free proposal and find out how much you could save this tax season. Did you know your house gets bored when you leave? I can't actually prove that, but it probably misses out on the action, the footsteps, the late night fridge raids. Yeah, when you're gone, your place is basically on unpaid leave. It's sitting there in the dark thinking I could be contributing right now. Your side room. wants a side hustle. Even your Wi-Fi is like, we could be networking. You're on vacation, spending money like it's a sport while your staircase at home is fully capable of sending your income

upwards. Here's the twist. You can go on a trip and actually earn money. Airbnb makes that possible with the co-host network. If you're away for a while or have a secondary property, you can hire a vetted local co-host with real hosting experience to handle it all. A co-host can handle guest communications. It can manage reservations and keep things running smoothly so you don't have to check your phone between beach days. That means less stress and more time enjoying your trip. You can relax, knowing guests are taken care of and your place is in good hands. You travel, your house works. Everyone wins. If you're ready to host but could use some help, find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. Let's get to Andy. Andy Gale, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast. A quick review of your

portfolio. You've been investing for 20 years, have done 10 deals and currently own 12 units all in Eastern Connecticut. You have a strict no-T-Rex policy for your tenants, and you seem like a fascinating individual that I'm interested to interview here. So tell us about this. How is that no-T-Rex policy working for you? Well, the no-T-Rex policy, well, first, I'll just tell you, like, T-Rexes have horrible gas, and not only that, they're incredibly rude, which is why we don't allow them. But the, I, when I was listing the units, I dug into marketplace and, um, and, and, hated the way that people were presenting themselves as landlords is like, you know, I'll only reply if don't, you know, et cetera. And so I went to chat GPT thinking I could,

I was looking to curate a specific clientele or specific, um, uh, group of people for these units. And I really like dogs. And I think that people that take, um, I found that people take very good care of their dogs also are pretty, like they're going to be good tenants. You know, they're able to to cure it the life that they want. So we chat GPT came up with this, this no T-Rex policy as after several. And it's working out pretty good. No T-Rexes have shown up. Okay, wait a minute.

Chat-GPT came up for the idea of not allowing T-Rexes in your home. It sure did. Yeah, I'm not that creative. That scares me that chat GPT not only can be practical, but it can also be creative as well. Yeah, because you were skeptical. You're like, oh, no, it's not that. And then I was like, hold on, let me just write a bigger pockets intro really fast using chat GPT.

And then you're like, oh, it can't be good. And then I read it. And you were like, wow, that sounds just like us. And I was like, I know. It's weird. Yeah, it is. It's creepy. Yeah, chat CPT.

But, you know, if you use it as a tool and just kind of keep on pushing, you'll get to your own authentic voice, which is scary, right? It works at your case. So basically what happened is you came up with the way of it. advertising your units to tenants in a way that was less threatening, less demanding. No this, no that. I always see those posts where they put exclamation points, absolutely no smoking, parties, dogs, fun, cooking, whatever the case would be.

And I think landlords can get away with that because in general, the limited supply in both housing to buy and housing to live in puts the power in the hands of the landlord. Of course, depending on the state, the power can shift back into the hands of the tenant, depending on what the laws are like. But if you've started the relationship off by kind of jerking them around that way, you're increasing your likelihood. They're going to do the same thing back to you when they get the power. Was that kind of what was behind your thought process for why you wanted to show yourself

differently? I wanted to show up as my authentic self. Like we're a family business. And I wanted to, I know that if you, I mean, a couple things. Like I know that if I show my real self to people, then they're more likely to share their actual situations. And so, you know, we also want to be able to, it's not just revenue producing. You know, this is housing, which fulfills a community need.

So I wanted to be seen as an individual and not so much as corporate entity. So I thought that if I presented myself in the ad this way, then I would be able to bring some guards down and have real conversations, which has been really, it's been great. It's, you know, to be your real self, show up and people show up as their selves. What is the tenant reaction been? Because obviously this is like, it's very different from the norm, right? So what do you hear from the people that are actually renting from you? Yeah, lots of LMAOs in messages. And then, like, hey, let's get on a call. And so it brings guards down immediately. So, and then you have real, you know, conversation. So it really, if I'm me, people can be themselves. So it is very different. But, you know, I've created a career that way. You know, everything, most everything I've done is a little bit. outside box. That's awesome, man. Can you just quickly like, all right, give us like a sentence of like in your Craigslistad when you're writing this out. What do you actually say? I think it said something a lot like I wanted to be dog friendly. Like I wanted. And so I wanted to have that displayed.

It was like something about like, you know, for babies and whatever, you know, for parents, something along those lines. Sorry, no T-Rex is, you know, allowed. Something along those lines. So it was like a punctuation. And it, uh, it worked really well. That's awesome. Now, Andy, we often talk about people's Y in real estate, but I want to know, tell me about the impact that you want to have on other people. Well, I mean, this is, that's a loaded question. There's a lot to it. But I think that my why is, I really love the conversations that have entered my, like I'm actually, you're on my kitchen table right now.

I love the conversations that have come into my home and that I've had with my wife and my children. as a result of real estate investing. You know, I think that, you know, financial freedom, you know, searching for financial freedom is that the end goal. But I, but the leadership, you know, that I show within my house and the way that we can intentionally do business together and grow as a family and then also bring along, you know, create win-win situations for others to come along. That's more, I mean, that's, that's the why, you know, because I'm in my mid-40s. you know, a couple more decades and it won't matter to me. You know, so it's, you know, when I'm in my mid-70s and 80s, you know, it all is going to go to the kids anyway. So I think that the, like, if you enjoy the journey, if you enjoy the process of it and you're able to do what you

want to do with the people that you love and bring them along, you know, that's, that really is the, the, the, the, the, the why. Very cool. Do you think, do you think, do you think, do you think you're going to teach your kids how to do this, is the idea to kind of empower them? And, because you said you're, you're leaving it to them. So I know that, This is sort of a, I don't know, 50, 50 in the community. Like some people are like, no, my kids get nothing. They have to work for it. And then, you know, there's the other half that's like, yeah, I'm doing this for the kids.

So, yeah, tell me about that. Yeah, so I have two children. My son is 17. He'll be 18 in a couple months. And my daughter will be 20 in a few weeks. And, yeah, my son is, he's, I have ADHD. You know, he has, he has ADHD and he struggled in a similar way I did in school. And so.

But he really excels as, like, as an entrepreneur. Like, I've known I was an entrepreneur well before they had a name for that. You know, and so he wanted to run numbers. And so that's his part of, like, he wants to, we want to help him buy a home when he's, by his 19th birthday with an FHA loan or, you know, 5% loan, whatever. And so we're kind of putting the, the groundwork in place for that. Him running numbers has helped him in school, like just the other day. He sent me a text message saying, Dad, thanks so much for helping me with this.

I have never had like a real connection to the work. And He lot was able to actually pass math as a junior in high school because of, because of this, because of us running numbers together. You mentioned that you had ADHD. I'm sure that that had an impact on you growing up. Tell us about your early life. Did you have someone in your life to play the role that you're playing for your son to kind of help him navigate some of these challenges?

What was your life like growing up? That's a great question. You know, and, you know, and I'll acknowledge. that when everyone, anyone says, like, that's a great question. They're buying a couple seconds. So I'm buying a couple seconds, you know. Hey, it's what us ADHD people do, though, you know? That's a wonder.

Dave, David, that question. We say all the time, that's a good question. What we really mean is that is a question I was not prepared to answer. I had that thought a couple weeks ago. I heard someone say, man, that's a great question with that. I don't know what I'm going to say to that because it often isn't a great question. Sometimes we say that in reply to like, I just wasn't expecting that. What if someone, what does it mean when someone says,

It's a bad question. That's a bad question. Yeah, that's a hard. And now I need extra time to think about how to answer your really poorly worded question. I will answer your question. So I didn't know. Like I grew up in a, I was raised by a single mom for most of my childhood. And so, and there was a lot of, I grew up in a traumatic environment.

You know, a lot of stuff was going on. And so ADHD was kind of secondary. My mom was struggling to keep food on the table and the bills paid. And so, you know, and there was a lot of things going on. So I don't, it wasn't until I was like later teens that, like I knew I had ADHD, but I didn't, and I knew that I was, I was, I'm also 45. So this was in the 90s and 80s. So, so it wasn't what it is today.

Like I didn't have. And I think that, I think that the result of me doing this work and trying to bring attention to neurodiversity, neurodiversity is a result of, being what I needed when I was a child. So I'm a scout leader. I'm a dad. I'm a husband. You know,

like, and so a lot of the roles I play primarily is to be what I needed when I was a child. I get that, man. I've been there. And I'm always, it's always really interesting to talk to like a fellow real estate investor with ADHD because it feels like for me, the thing that is so clear that I need to do more than anything ever is just delegate.

Because I just am not a, a detail. oriented person. I just get too scatterbrain. Is it the same thing with you when you're managing your rentals? Are you a relatively organized person? Does the ADHD side of things ever get in the way? Yeah, the ADHD thing gets in the way all the time for essentially everything. So, and I think that, you know, I think that I spent a lot of my life trying to mask and to present myself as neurotypical, you know, in the different roles and the different, you know, I've been an entrepreneur for my whole life and I've gone in and out of employment due to circumstances.

But even when I was an employee, I was an entrepreneur. So hiding that from people, like that I struggled with organization, took up a lot of my energy. And it wasn't in like in the last decade where I start to have the self-awareness of what my strengths are, you know, that I was able to kind of let, you know, let the curtain down a little bit and tell people where I was struggling and where I needed help. And so the organizational component of it, like I rely heavily on different,

different apps and outsourced accountability, I suppose, is the best way to do that, which allows me to shine in the areas that I'm, you know, that I'm great at. You mentioned neurodivergence. How did you lean into some of these strengths that you just mentioned, things you found out you were really great at? So I'm an excellent, I've developed skills at different intervals of my career. And when I kind of realized what had been going on, you know, with the impact that neurodivergence, or specifically ADHD has had on me, then I recognized that like I'm strong in strategy. Like in due diligence, like I'm a machine.

And so the hyper-focused component of ADHD has really, really helped me to rapidly learn and take on new skill sets. It's like the skill set of developing skill sets. I'm a master at. So it's like creating systems and processes so that I can forget that this stuff goes on in an automated way is crucial for me because I'll move past. And once I master something, I need to pass it off because I need to go conquer the next hill. That's really the hyper focus of component of ADHD has been once I named it and called it out. It's my superpower. And you did mention you were, you know, in your corporate life, you were sort of hiding this and

everything like that. What did you do before real estate? So I think it's really funny that that's a I'm going to say that's a great question because it is a great question. Thank you. Because I didn't realize, I didn't realize that I wasn't actually in the game until recently. I didn't realize that real estate, like owning the asset, the cash flowing asset was the end game. So I've been a builder for over 20 years. You know, I've been, I was developing the skills around, I've been a remodeler and a builder. I've built, I don't know how many homes from ground up, you know,

getting the, getting the permitting in place, zoning, designing the plans and selling the contracts and doing all the project management, et cetera, et cetera. But I never, and we did flips and we did, you know, we bought some different properties, but never with the intent to hold. So I guess, like, before, I get, you know, I would now say the real estate component of my career is more recent,

but it was like this, we talked about Jim Carrey before, like, you know, Finkel is Einhorn, Einhard is Finkel. It was like this aha moment for me where I was like, oh, I've been shopper in the accident. Like a lot of people get into real estate and try to develop the skills. I had the skills already and then realized that I wasn't in the game. Yeah. So tell us about that. Tell us about your first deal. Like at what point did you actually get into real estate? Well, I've owned a lot of different things, but this most recent, I mean, my first house, I guess my first house hack will talk about. And so, which kind of gives mindset.

I bought it in 1999. And so I was a nurse at that time. And the lady at H&R Block told me that I was paying way too many taxes and they needed some write-offs. So I either needed to get married or buy a house. This was in 1999. So I said, I don't have any credit or I told her I had bad credit. And then some mortgage broker somewhere told me, no, you can qualify for a 3% loan.

And so I didn't want to pay rent anymore. So I found a house in Rhode Island. And I bought it. And I rented out the rooms and actually rented out the basement, which is when you talk about a basement, I'm talking about a stone foundation that was wet. So I house hacked my and I rented to my brother, which was horrible of me. But it's a, yeah, that was my very first. I bought it for $83,000. It was 7% interest.

I went from $133 in rent to $750 mortgage. I remember being terrified. I didn't know how I was going to do that. But then the little boom happened and we made some money. When you paid $83,000 was part of you thinking that you were paying too much? Yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah.

Never goes away. It was, I was like, are you crazy? $83,000. It's funny because when we hear that, we're like, well, I'd have bought a house for $80,000. I'd have felt comfortable buying it for 83,000, but at the time it was 83,000, you were probably wanting it for 71. You're like, this is just way too much. And now we're looking at $500,000 house and saying half a million dollars for that, but

20, 30 years later, we're going to look back and it's going to be worth $4 million. And we're going to be like, what? You can buy a house for under a million dollars. How's that possible? Like, it's a million dollars. Use a pay phone. Yeah, it probably will be. You're probably not wrong about that.

Yeah, they'll probably bring them back as novelties and there'll be a million You just got to remind yourself all the time. Things always seem expensive at the moment you buy them. That's true, man. It's so many people will, they always like to say like, well, yeah, I mean, you got an easy and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, you can literally say that about any real estate investor 10 years ago relative to the time that you said that. You know, like everyone looks like a genius in real estate when they do it for 30 years because they just kept buying it. Yeah, it's like, you know, stuff is a lot more expensive than it was, just like you said. But yeah, we're going to be so smart. in 20 years when it's like, man, I can't believe you got that house. Yeah, I mean,

listen to this podcast. Like, if I go back 10 years from now, you know, or if I listen to this in 10 years, you know, the perspective I'll have then will be so much different. I mean, I'll listen to this and I'll think like, wow, that kid had so much to learn, you know, and it's true. You look back and see a lot of things you wish you would have done different. The number one thing is I wish I'd have bought more of it. At the time I was buying it, I thought it was too expensive and I shouldn't buy it. Now I look back. I'm like, man, why didn't I do that every year? I could have a house hacked. I didn't have kids. I didn't have a family. I could have went gangbusters. But, uh, all right. So you mentioned hyper focus as one of

your strengths. Is there an example of a time that this has paid off for you specifically within real estate? Oh, yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. I mean, I can, we could talk about the deal I just did or, you know, there's I. So due diligence is, is fun for me. Like anytime that there's, if you ever want, you know, someone to solve a problem like, and you're in my proximity, you just go like, oh, that's weird. You know, and I'll just jump in and I'll, you know, I'll come in and do all the research. I really love, like, I love tracking planning and zoning commission meetings. Like, I know it's really weird, but, like, I hyper focus on, I actually, I love zoning because it's what you can do with land.

So I read zoning regs. I read planning and zoning commission meetings like the romance novel. Actually, I see the storyline in it. And, you know, it's funny because I was just telling my wife like, hey, this guy, this guy is watch what happens in this next, you know, in this next month. Like we'll talk about the different, oh, I probably wasn't supposed to say that. But we'll, you know, following things from month to month in the storylines in them, like the, the hyper focus of getting into and immersing myself in something to find, to rapidly learn and

has been very helpful. I'll give, I'll say like for, actually for this problem. property that I just bought. Like I went into hyper-focused mode and learned everything there is about, like they give the tenants, you know, we look up who's in there, you know, we look up what's going on. I was had to actually reconstruct the, I bought this fractured, this fractured condo association. So it was, I needed to, I was buying them as individuals, but, you know, essentially owning a majority percentage of the HOA. So I, I had to involve myself in the, I had to reconstruct a business model of the HOA without actually having access to it.

So that hyper focus, like rebuilding their business with certainty, certainly paid off. Did you know that it was a fractured HOA when you bought it? Like, did you, I don't think I've even heard that term specifically. But yeah, was that not a scary thing? Not for me. I mean, so, you know, your careers are built upon different. pillars. And so like as I, you know, I lost, I lost my shirt in the Great Recession and learned to be financially, I like learned financial literacy, you know, through necessity. And then at the next place,

I really was, I got, I had this mentor at my last job that really, really instilled in me, solid business principles. And so the specific component that I did, I ran a construction department and we did about six to eight million dollars a year. And so I was always hunting. like repeatable bit. Like I always knew that if I could find something and in large quantity, it gave me enough rope to make some mistakes and correct it. So I was always looking for repeatable ways to lean out the process. So when I was looking at this business model, it's essentially, you know, 12 units of kind of the same thing. And that HOA is just a business that has income and expenses. So it really, it wasn't a fractured, it wasn't scary for me.

You know, and I didn't, when I originally decided to do investing, you know, I bought, David, I bought your book. You know, actually a friend sent it to me. I'd never heard of you. And, and so I, you know, I listened to it all. And our intention was to buy single family homes. But then once we got into it and that with my experience in commercial construction and estimating in the type of construction I did, it became pretty apparent to me that multifamily was the way that I was going to be going and where my strength was. Especially if you love analyzing things, right? Multifamily is a playground for people that love to analyze. things. I understand that you recently did a deep dive for your sister on one of her properties. Can you tell us what you did there? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So my, it's actually my wife's sister, my sister-in-law, but I consider her my sister for sure. She, um, have you guys ever heard of Mystic, Connecticut? Mm-mm. You guys ever spend any time over here? Foxwoods Resort Casino. You heard of, yeah. Wow.

Not yet. Yeah. Well, come on down. You should come to Foxwood. Yeah. So Mystic Connecticut is a, is an appreciating little mecca, little town in New England, so the real estate is going crazy. My sister-in-law loves the area, and a house came on the market that had been neglected, and it was, like, anything that goes up in historic mystic is gone in days, you know, like regardless of its condition. So I had to jump in and really learn the specific zoning laws. So she wanted to build and she wanted to acquire the. property, we were going to rehab it, and then we're going to build an ADU in the background,

in the backyard. And really, we just had like 24 hours to do this. And this is where my, this is where I excel. You know, came in, learn the, learn the zoning laws learned, you know, quickly what the, if it needed a special permit and like not a special permit, but like the definition of special permit or not, or if it can be done administratively, you know, what that criteria was. And I was able to say with certainty that, yes, we could do what she was planning to do to project a realistic ARV of what that would be and how much income that that that that year be a short-term rental could generate in a very short period of time. Up to that point, how acquainted were you were, how acquainted were you with that process in general?

I've been doing that for 20 years. Okay. So I've been so, but I didn't know I was doing that. I was always doing it for clients. You know, I've always like if you're going to do a renovation, you know, it has to make sense. If you're going to renovate something, people are either doing it emotionally or as, you know, to keep pace with the you know with inflation so i've oh anytime you're doing you know as a builder you have things have to be they have to appraise in order to be funded so i was always doing that

and learning how to you know i see the episodes on how to you know kick back uh you know on an appraisal you know since the crash like that's i have a phd in that you know we've been trying to get loans funded uh on things that are that aren't yet built is uh is i've been doing that forever yeah That's good. That must have helped. I remember the first time I ever built an ADU. I submitted the plan. I mean, it was a six-month process to get the plans ready and submitted to L.A. County, which, you know, they don't have a lot of regulations. They're just kidding. It was awful. And so I'd submitted it. And I remember they gave me the plans back like three weeks later. And the entire, I mean, it was 10 pages that were all just redlined, just so many comments. And it had never done anything like that before. And I remember

just like, that is one of the moments that I felt probably most defeated in my real estate career. I wanted to cry. I was like, I cannot believe. I don't understand any of this. And I remember going to sleep and waking up the next day and then I read it again, all the, all the marks. I was like, okay, that actually makes more sense than I thought, but I still don't get it. And then I went to sleep and I read it again. And then all of a sudden, it really wasn't that bad. And it's like, you don't really realize it, but sometimes you really need to take it incredibly slow, sleep on it, come back to it because the stuff really does start to kind of get easier

once you realize that it's not as scary as it seems on the surface. The thing of these things, so when you're getting these things through zoning and you're getting permitting in place for different projects, you have to think of it as like, playing tennis. You're doing a volley. So if you're expecting, you know, a home run right out of the gate, you're going to be disappointed. So realistic expectations on this, like in timeline. So you're going to go back and forth on some different things and you're going to learn the specifics of each, you know, town and county and what they're looking for. So no one gets through on the first time. That's a great, great point. Yeah, and that could cause a lot of frustration if you're the type

of personality that says, I just want to look at it, make a decision, be done, move on, check the box. That's not a box checking thing. That's almost like you're sending scouts to do recon. They're coming back and they're saying this is what the other side has. Okay, how are we going to strategize here? What could we do? Let's send out that and see how they reply. It's much more of a game like that. So your brain likes that type of stuff.

I love that stuff. I love development. Yep. I love anything that if you can change the use of land and you can like a value ad, like I've been doing this stuff for, you know, for a very long time. And I love the strategy of it. I love the, you know, creating the relationships and going back and forth and creating something that previously, you know,

We're not, you know, guys not making any more land, but what we can do with that land is still up in, up in the air and how much revenue you can generate with it. So that's where I love zoning. All right. So what about some weaknesses that you outsource? What are some things that you don't enjoy doing or don't like that you outsource other people? So this is like, David, that's a great question. You know, that's a, yeah. So I'm like, I have the propensity to be a poor manager.

Like, and, and I'll clarify that, you know, the difference between leadership and management and management in my brain, and I don't know what the actual definition of it, but, you know, management is executing the plan, you know, and then measuring that. So if I don't have, if I don't have breadcrumbs along the way or notifications or accountability for what the original business plan was, then I can lose sight of that. So I have to create external accountability. Like, and so I do that with, I work as a consultant as, you know, doing some commercial estimating still. And I do like three or four different things. But my, my wife is my partner, like, not just like in life and in business. And so she really, she's like my metronome.

And so I, I'm not going to remember like anything, any recurring event that doesn't have structure or accountability around it is in the danger zone for me. And I know that I have to externalize that and vocalize like I've learned my brain. And so I know that I, I know that I don't need to be, I don't have to shine bright. I don't have to be the center of, you know, of it all in the, I can, we can, we can shine the light on other people. And the more, more we do, that's leadership. And so, so for them to go, you're trying to get people to where they're going. That's how I view leadership in the different, the different, the different, I can't differentiate

differentiator, diffi, I'll leave that there. Yeah. Yeah. We'll trademark it if it doesn't exist. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So the, I outsource, um, routine accountability. and management things. So I do that through notifications, through different apps on my phone, through having people check in on me, through creating body doubling.

Body doubling. I don't know if you're familiar with this or not. Yeah, yeah. It's effectively, I mean, I tried this one time, and it works well. It's basically, you're asking someone to effectively sit in the room with you

while you work through something just so that you feel like there's camaraderie or support in that moment. Is that is that right? Yeah, that's exactly. Yeah, tell someone what you're doing and sit with you. And they're like, all right,

I'm going to do this thing that's hard for me. And so, I mean, I may have the skill set to do it. But, you know, and as long as I externalize and say, hey,

this is what I'm going to be doing this time period, that time period passes and then, you know, state what you were able to accomplish. Like, so for the hard things that are boring or that I don't want to do or whatever. So that really is like,

and to be able to say, you know, vocally that I, I have the, you know, I have the, propensity to be a poor manager if I don't plan well and externalize my my weaknesses like that. That's so empowering because I can say it and now we can all shine and move forward.

Here's the truth about passive investing. If the strategy isn't right on day one, the returns won't save it. Multi-family real estate offers structural advantages. Many investors are overlooking, including depreciation that can help offset taxable income while cash flow continues. Bam Capital builds its investment with that reality in mind. They are focused on solid operators, tax efficiency, and long-term performance. For investors who want real estate exposure without being landlords

and who care about consistency over hype, this is a smarter way to allocate capital. Learn more at biggerpockets.com slash bam. Did you know your house gets bored when you leave? I can't actually prove that, but it probably misses out on the action, the footsteps, the late-night fridge raids. Yeah, when you're gone,

your place is basically on unpaid leave. It's sitting there in the dark thinking, I could be contributing right now. Your side room wants a side hustle. Even your Wi-Fi is like, we could be networking. You're on vacation, spending money like it's a sport, while your staircase at home

is fully capable of sending your income upwards. Here's the twist. You can go on a trip and actually earn money. Airbnb makes that possible with the co-host network. If you're away for a while or have a secondary property, you can hire a vetted local co-host with real hosting experience to handle it all. A co-host can handle guest communications, it can manage reservations and keep things running smoothly

so you don't have to check your phone between beach days. That means less stress and more time enjoying your trip. You can relax, knowing guests are taken care of, and your place is in good hands. You travel, your house works. Everyone wins. If you're ready to host but could use some help, find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host.

Real estate investors, the April 15th tax deadline is coming fast. If you own rental property and haven't done a cost segregation study yet, you could be handing thousands of dollars to the IRS that you don't have to. These studies let you write off as much as 25% of your building and generate huge tax deductions. Costsegregation.com is an online, self-guided software that makes cost segregation fast and affordable. So it finally makes sense for smaller rental properties purchased for as low as $100,000. With pricing under $500 and an average savings of over $25,000, it's just a no-brainer. What's more, audit support is included by the number one cost segregation company in the U.S.,

but you must complete it before the tax deadline. Go to costsegregation.com and use code tax deadline to get 10% off your first report. Don't overpay the IRS. Head to costsegregation.com before a price. 15th. Managing properties can feel like a full-on circus. You're juggling vendors, tracking payments, chasing approvals across multiple properties, and maybe a few HOAs, all while trying to keep tenants happy and owners confident. One delay can throw everything off, and suddenly your day is all clean up, no progress. That's why hundreds of property managers rely on bill to streamline their

finances. Bill for property management lets you add all your properties, assign permissions, pay bill, and receive payments quickly and efficiently, without the usual bottlenecks. It syncs with platforms like QuickBooks, Zero, NetSuite, and Sage intact, so your accounting stays aligned. You can automate bulk payments across properties and HOAs. Choose flexible payment methods like Same Day ACH, International Wires, Card, or Check, and set custom roles in approval policies. There's even a dedicated bill inbox for each property to keep everything organized. Ready to simplify your workflow, book your free demo at bill.com slash bigger pockets and get a $100 Amazon gift card. That's bill.com slash bigger pockets.

I think when we see examples of success, we see LeBron James, we see Michael Jordan, we see Tiger Woods. We only see the strengths. This person can jump higher than everyone else, run faster than everyone else, does something better. What you don't see, but is maybe even more important is the coaching staff, the general manager, the other players that see the weaknesses in that person's approach and are actively going to fill that in, right? The coaches are probably spending more time thinking about weaknesses of their best players since the strengths are obvious. You don't have to wonder what someone's good at that jumps out at you right away, but we hide our weaknesses. Owning that we have a weakness allows us to sort of coach ourselves. That's what I hear you

saying, right? I know I operate best in these environments, so let me bring someone in to do it. I know that I will mess this up. Let me put a person around me. It doesn't matter how well you do it something. If you go crush it at your job and then you forget to pay the mortgage every month, like you said, it's a recurring thing. And you're like, what does it matter? And it gets foreclosed in two months. It doesn't benefit you, right? You have to know where your weaknesses are if you want to be able to capitalize on your strengths. And I know that there's a trend right now, which is good and positive of people seeking to understand why am I like this, right? There's a lot of podcasts. There's a lot of books. There's a lot of self-help stuff that talks about things we went through

in childhood. The word like trauma gets thrown around a lot, which is nothing against people that have legit trauma. But now it's like, oh, my husband forgot to put the trash out. And it's, now we call that trauma, right? But understanding why there's a problem is not the same as coming up with a plan to work around that problem, to become more successful. I was like, once I know why I'm like this, then we stop. We're like, okay, jobs done. I understand what happened in life. No, now you have to take that knowledge and you have to come up with a framework that will allow you to be successful, which it sounds like is something that you've done. I'm going to guess growing up, you didn't have a whole lot of examples or people that were coaching you in this way. Is this something

you sort of had to stumble into yourself? Yeah. It, you know, that's, you know, yes. You know, when you grow up in an environment where everyone's trying to survive and we go, you know, trying to get to the next thing. You know, there's not a lot of thought process on future planning, you know. And so, like, even though I was around, and even in my career, I was around a lot of real estate. We were building a lot of it. No one was investing in it in keeping it. So it didn't occur to me to do that. You know, so I never, I didn't have an example. I had, well, I had great role models in my life as a young man. You know, I joined scouts early, you know, and I had, and my mom did the very best she couldn't. And I'm at peace with that. But I didn't have like the growth that I'm able to afford like

to afford my kids. You know, that's like and to be able to really like at this point in my life at 45 years old, legacy is very important to me and that that I'm able to provide for my children the framework to be successful in how they define that. And that in turn makes me successful. And as a byproduct, you know, we're going to generate revenue and generational wealth. So it's really, it's, you know, as the younger man, I wanted to get away from poverty and I wanted to get away from to be anything but the poor kid. And so it was ego driven. And at this stage in my life, I really could give a rat's ass what anyone thinks about me. You know, if you, if they don't, if I'm not your cup of tea, that's cool, you know, move on, scroll, you know, and get to the next

thing. I really just want, I have, my why is really clear at this point. It's fascinating. Rob, what are you thinking as you hear this? Because I feel like you can kind of relate to Andy. You just haven't said anything yet. You are a detailed person. We had this experience buying the property in Scottsdale where we each got to bring up our individual strengths of weaknesses. Seeing how you work with decor, I mean, I was literally thinking some of the things Andy's thinking. Like if I had to pay attention to this much detail, this thing would have been screwed up in the first 12 minutes of doing. I never would be able to hold my focus on bedbath and beyond and thinking of like what, how would this look at a picture?

Like your whole brain processes information completely different. What would this look like? Would a guest want to book on it? Would they likely complain about it? I'm at like a 30,000 foot level from so many things that I need the people like you. I'm curious, is that a thing you've always been like? Does that part of why you have such a big YouTube channel and why you worked in marketing is you have this angle to see details that other people miss?

How has that served you and how has it worked against you? Yeah. So, you know, there's this kind of, there's this funny thing that was going around a couple years ago, I want to say it was like a meme. And so basically was saying that there are two types of people. There is someone who their inner monologue is dialogue. And then the other type of person is their inner monologue are like abstract thoughts. And so a lot of people like saw this and they're like, wait, what?

Not everyone thinks in dialogue and not everyone. And then the other half is like, wait, not everyone thinks an abstract thoughts. I think in abstract thoughts. I'm scatterbrained. When I walk into like a place and I'm analyzing it, I'm not like, oh, the couch would go here, blah, blah, blah. Like, I don't have that inner monologue with myself. So it is for me, I walk into a place and when I'm inspired, you know, I can definitely

focus on one thing, but it really is like I'm grabbing stuff out of the air and basically pulling it down. And so as much as I love that aspect about my creativity and what I do, I mean, my YouTube channel is very like, you know, I don't script it out. It's all ad libbed. I have five bullet points and I, you know, it's ADHD madness. As much as I love that side of my creativity, there are times when I'm like, okay, it's time to grow up and sort of own some of these things, you know, like I complain a lot about how I don't have enough time in my day. And this has been a big business failure for me. It's like I closed my laptop at 6 p.m., frustrated

that nothing got done. That's what it feels. like. And so, you know, at a certain point, I have to just kind of own up that, like, yes, I have my strengths and weaknesses, but I can't always like use, like, for example, my ADHD as an excuse for why I'm an organizer, like, why, yeah, why I'm not able to advance. And so I've been making a lot of changes to my life in the last two months. Like, you know, I've kind of talked about it a little bit on air, but I'm a not a morning guy at all. I, waking up at nine would be the best version of myself, but I've been waking up at 530 every day for the past two months and it sucks. But it's an action step that I needed to take to actually be successful. I have

employees now. I have 20 or 25 people at this point that are like, you know, on my payroll. Everything, I have a family that have to support. And so I have to just sort of keep myself accountable. And payroll keeps me accountable. So I've just sort of, I don't know, I'm changing in a lot of different interesting ways. Are you guys familiar with the U.S.? Entrepreneur Operating System? Yeah. Yeah. I worked at, the last place I worked at was where I was introduced to it and we were, we ran the company on that. I was on key staff. And there was about 100 employees there. And the difference between the visionary and the integrator are really, it's really remarkable. So what you're hearing you say, Rob, is that, you know, that you're a visionary and you're, and you're, you're, you're trying to

become the integrator as well, you know, and so I'd love to see how that turns out, you know, in the way, because it's really hard to, to hold space for both and to be successful in both areas. Like to your creative mind is what created your empire. And so executing that business plan, you know, how you hand that off is really and you're able to, because you have to be, you know, the product is you. And so as you, as you release that, you know, and be able to chunk out different parts of it. You know, it's, I, I'd love, I can't wait to watch your story unfold. Yeah, it's been fun, man. I think it's, you know, someone convinced me, uh, just under a year ago to hire a COO. They're like, you need a higher COO. You can't, you're doing everything and, you know,

it's obviously spreading you thin. And so I did. And when I did that, I was like, okay, that's great. Like, it really was a source of empowerment, but I still find myself failing the CEO for what he needs to do by not getting him what he needs to run the business and stuff. So yeah, I mean, it's like I can stay very comfortable at where I'm at, but where I want to be in a couple years from now is I want to have thousands of units that are very cool, unique places. And the only way I'm going to do that is I have to sort of hunker down and like get in the weeds a little bit with my own business versus always trying to delegate it out. So it's a probably not the correct way. I don't know. I'm trying to figure that part out. I mean, the wording that you use,

the verbs that used along lines of not using ADHD as a crutch to, you know, as an excuse for everything. And that kind of accountability is really, it's really empowering to, to, once you own it and say like, all right, well, this is an excuse. It's a, it's a reason. And then you, you know, fill in around that to, uh, to, to be successful in the way that you define it, you know, it really, I love the, I love the way that, that you describe that.

Yeah, man. Well, honestly, I feel like we kept this together pretty good for a couple of ADHD blokes. And David, you're keeping us on the path. Yeah. And on that path, we are going to transition from ADHD to DDD. The next one of our show is the deal deep dive. In this segment of the show, we dive deep into a particular deal that our guest is done. And Andy, I understand that you've got a 12-unit property to talk about.

Is that right? I do. I do, yes. All right. So we're going to fire these questions at you. I'll start. First question. What type of property is it?

It's a fractured condo community, 18 units, and we bought 12 of them. And before Rob asked this question, do you buy? repeating what the definition of a fractured condominium? So a fractured condominium complex is one that was intended to be a single, you know, owned by one, by individuals within HOA. And at some point, um, turned towards investors and became majority investor owned. So it's, um, there's a lot of potential upside. Yeah.

As I see it. So the, the complex was owned by the people. sorry, every unit of these 12 was originally owned by someone different. And then they had an HOA that governed to make sure your neighbor, you know, didn't paint their house, Peptobismal Pink or played loud music or whatever. Then the people who originally owned them sold them. Investors came in and bought them. Then they started renting them out.

So the HOA rules had to be adapted to accommodate for the fact that a lot of tenants were going to be involved. Is that basically? Not really. Yeah. So that's where the opportunity was. is, I don't want to, is that as a majority owner, I essentially get to dictate what the bylaws are. And if at some point, you know, to change the declaration, the condo declaration. So, yes.

So you own all 12 units that were originally owned by individual people. I own, we'll only, we're closing on the 13th next week. But yeah, we'll own 30. There we go. Okay, so 12 units in a complex that has more than 12. Yes, 12 units in a complex of 18. I'm sorry. All right. There we go. All right. How did you find the 12 units? Through a real estate agent that is a

friend of mine and he was posting its completely different property that I engaged with and we got on a call and it was a pocket listing and which essentially meant to me that the seller was not, you know, willing to commit to any particular agent. And I was correct about that and. Commitment issues. Yep. That's right. I bet you that's part of why you got such a good deal on this thing. It doesn't always serve you well to try to be in an open relationship with your agents. All right. So how much did you pay for this thing? 1.2 million for the 12 units. And how did you negotiate it? This is a, so this is really hard to buy, actually. The seller who is, I still talk to you three times a week where we've become good friends. He had it teed up for a cash out refi through a local

bank here. And so he really didn't care if he sold it or not. So I offered asking and he said, no. So then when we got into the the details of it, he didn't want anything, you know, any item less than $500 was on me. And I was like, let's get to a definition of item. And then he was like, no. And so I couldn't see it. And so I said eventually like, hey, let me see the units and I'll buy them as is. And so we were able to meet. He's a builder like me, puts his pants on one leg at a time. We became fast friends. He realized that I wasn't going to lock him up in a P&S and then start chipping away. I was intended to pay what we were and we did that. So that's a, the negotiation was tough. It was, but once we got in, I realized it wasn't a real problem that we were fighting. And once we got into, you know, if I could get them into the room to have a conversation that we could, we could learn if, you know, this is a good fit or not. And that was, I was spot on. I like what you said about it wasn't a real problem. He was trying to prevent something that he thought could happen that you didn't have any intention of doing. That's beautiful. Right. Yeah. Rob. Oh, is it me? Sorry, this was such great conversation. This is the ADHD. How did you fund it?

All right. All right. Yeah. So, so he had a, he had a teed up for a cash out refy at the local bank. So the appraisal was already done. I didn't know this at the time, you know, when we were negotiating it. So I have a partner in this deal. And so we, we went to the bank and we essentially, and we assumed that there was already a commitment letter that was issued to them. So we just requalified in within two or three days. And we got a commitment letter. And we went off to the races. All right. Now, this is probably the most fun question. What did you do with it when you bought it? Well, it had tenants in it. So the seller, and I hit it off really, really well. And so we, I really take my head off to the agent because he essentially stepped aside and allowed this to just happen because we were going to solve the problems together. And so, and a lot of people there you go get in the way of that. And he really did a great job by, you know, kind of taking him back. And so we filled the units. Like he, there were a few. empty units, but he really wanted me, he knew that this was going to be my, my launching, you know, of this. And he really wanted that to be successful for me. So, um, I, he filled the thing up and we, um, and so we took it over, you know, and, um, I was able to introduce myself to the tenants. Not everyone was happy I was there. And, um, and that's, uh, and we've, you know, we've, we've, we've switched over a few of the

tenants. You know, I think at this point we're going to be up to, I think we're up to five that we're, we're qualifying ourselves. But, um, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a really great property. Because it's one bedroom, one bath. It's in, do you guys familiar with electric boat, the submarine capital of the world, Connecticut? I don't know. So we have 20,000. The EB is, you know, the government is launching a new submarine line. So they're doubling down.

There's 20,000 employees and they're adding another 6,000, 7,000. So any units within a 25, 30 mile radius is pretty much insulated from this recession that potentially is coming because all the tradespeople are being picked up there. So we're kind of being propped up in that way. So I know that there's a huge shortage of. these rentals and I'm marketing to professionals that will be buying the next two years. So I understand there's going to be a lot of turnover. Wow. That's good intel. You've just ruined that market for yourself. I hope you know that. Everyone at home is like, oh yeah. Well, no one listens to

this podcast, right? It's a small niche thing. Yeah. What lessons did you learn from this deal? What lessons did I learn? I learned that, so this is, this deal probably put me on a path for multifamily. I learned that if I take on, like I took this property on and the rent rule was 13-2. You know, it's currently at encroaching 15,000. So that's like a 12% increase. And I learned that anything over five family, you know, I can generate my own, I can increase my valuation. I can create wealth this way. You know, I learned, you know, about the five-year arm, you know, that can be a bit scary.

But if you are super analytical, like, I learned this is where I want to be. You know, I'm going to do renovations and flips and things like that to fund these multifamily, you know, these multifamily deals. That's, I learned that this is where I want to be. That's awesome, man. Well, final question. Who was the hero on your, on the team for your deal? This would be my wife. You know, I have this squirrel brain, this crazy.

And I mean it, too. It's, you know, we've been together for 23 years. And we met as kids at, you know, 22 years old. And, you know, we've been through an awful lot of ups and downs. and we have a child with my son has cystic fibrosis. You know, we've really been through it all. And, you know, she is the timing for me. You know, she sets the pace.

You know, she sets the standard for our children, for myself. And she, you know, her belief in us in what we can do together, really, none of this would, none of this would happen. Awesome. I mean, I don't know I've ever heard anyone say that their wife was a hero of the deal, but that's very cool to hear, especially because if, you think about it in order to keep you operating at your best she's got to figure out like well what are the weaknesses that we talked about how do i cover for that right so uh that is what heroes do that's awesome

yeah i don't know if i yeah my wife is a therapist uh mental health therapist and my daughter you know so it's it's great to have a living therapist that's awesome i need to marry a live in masseuse my body is always sore all the time from all the various four centuries now that now you got me thinking here yeah no you put that out to the world you know hey all masseuses is David's looking. All right. So what's next? You mentioned that you have some tenants in the pipeline that are contracting for work,

and you recognize there's going to be turnover. Have you ever started thinking about systems in place that you're going to use to kind of handle the vacancy that you know should be coming? Yeah. I mean, as we grow, you know, I think, you know, I don't have a specific quantity of units I want to get to in the next couple years. But as we grow, the systems, like we'll probably outsource that to agents, you know, to fill those vacancies.

But I think that they're really well, like I have a pretty good following on Instagram, and that's from being relatable. And so I think that if we reach out to people and advertise the units well, like really show them, you know, creatively, then I think that they'll fill. I don't think, I'm not really all that concerned about vacancy as long as we act. If we don't, you know, if we don't, if we don't know they're coming, you know, communicate with the people that are leaving and make sure that we have the, you know, a runway and people in place to do that in a timely way. I don't think that we're, I'm not that worried about vacancy, you know, after, from the experience I've had so far. And what's as far as what's next, you know, the, I really, like I said, I really love zoning and we're, I have a couple deals in the pipeline right now that are potentials, but no, no contract. You know, Connecticut has this, um, this 830G law for affordable housing where it essentially overrides local zoning to, to allow for, uh, zoning rechanged for affordable housing. And actually today, you know, I think the, the, they announced like a almost an 8% increase of what, you know, 80 to 100% affordable housing income levels are.

So that expands the amount of people that that fall into that. So we're looking at a property potentially to develop into, you know, 20 to 30 units. I don't know that it'll go anywhere, but this is like, this is what I'm, this is the pipeline along that I'm thinking. We want to eventually get to like a short term to midterm rental, you know, hosting, like to get to a percentage of that to kind of, and that's where my wife wants. come in, but yeah, we're looking. We're looking. So, Andy, before we, before we wrap up, can you give us a general idea of your portfolio numbers and kind of where you're heading with your current portfolio, like how fast is it growing, all that kind of stuff? Yeah, we're currently at 12, and we're going to be adding the 13th unit next week.

They're kind of a creative financing deal. And I, like, my goal, I don't have a goal number, but I have a goal, like, but I have like an aspiration. Like, I think we're going to get to about 30 units in the next 18 months or so if if if things go well you know I think you know depending on what interest rates do you know they pause today but they'll probably come up a little bit you know a couple more times you know what cap rate is is attractive is uh is to be seen so I don't really know exactly I'm going to stay I'm going to stay in touch and connected to it and move fluidly I will find you know we will find the deals of value add deals in my local market I'm not quite comfortable reaching out yet to outside of this area, but I'm starting to play in that.

And what would you say, like, you know, what would you say your total portfolio worth is now after years having kind of built this thing and expanding it? I think we're, I think, about 1.8, I think is where we're at right now. And, you know, half of, you know, I have a partner in one of those deals. So it's, I think that will be like to my goal is to be. And it sounds, I hate to say this out loud, but in the, but I think it's important to because, you know, the relationship people have with money is, is important. I think that a lot of, a lot of listeners, it's a dirty word. You know, I think in the coming two to three years, I want to have a net worth of $1 million to, to, I want to cross the $1 million mark in the next two to three years of my personal financial statement. And that's, and I don't even feel like that's aspirational. I didn't think that something like this was available to a person like me. You know, I didn't think that, like, I knew all the, I knew how to build. I knew how to run a business, knew how to do all the stuff, but I didn't think I could get in the game. So that's where I'm, you know, I don't really care about the unit count so much.

You know, I think that's where I want to be. But, you know, it'll create some freedom. And honestly, if it's available to me, it's a, if a guy like me can be doing this, really, you know, if you just add on one skill at a time, develop the skill, developing skills, you know, I feel like almost anyone can do this. And you're still working for a builder while this is going on? No, I'm a consultant. I work as a consultant. I don't have a, you know, I'm self-employed. I do ADHD coaching.

I do, I'm a contractor. You know, we do rehabs, remodels. And then I also work, do a bit of consulting for estimating and development, you know, staff development in that area. What I love about, I mean, there's many things about this show that are awesome. But one of the things that I love about it is that you didn't feel this need to jump in and work 90 hours a week, just trying to get. accumulate assets without picking your head up and looking around and asking what is the point of doing

this? You just stayed in the race like the tortoise, just slow and steady. I know what I like. I know what I don't like. I know I'm doing this for my family. It makes no sense to sacrifice my family to get all these units and then bragged to my kids about how they're going to own a portfolio that they never wanted and then they end up screwing it up because they didn't get enough time with dad to learn how to manage it once it was handed to them or that was never their dream. You didn't overly stress yourself out from what I'm hearing, right? We're like, I don't know how I'm supposed to handle all these rehabs that I have. It can get easy to become obsessed with real estate. But real estate is not a asset class that really favors or rewards the people who sacrifice

everything else just for this. It takes time to do. It is a get rich, slow scheme. It is every property becomes more valuable every year that you have it as inflation does its thing and rents continue to increase and you build better systems and you produce. predict problems better. So you have to run the marathon. This is not a sprint. And so many people, they listen to these shows and they say, I just want the information in 12 minutes. I don't want to listen to an hour-long podcast of a story. Just give me the answer because they think that they're just going to work really hard for two years and then be done and never work again. And this does not work that way. And I think you're a great example of the right way to do it. What are your thoughts on

that? I think that, you know, anytime someone apparently appears as a success overnight, So I got a lot of, a lot of when we were posting, you know, hey, we acquired this thing. A lot of people didn't think that we're in a position to do something like that. So I think that anytime someone appears to be an success overnight, it's a, there's a lot of, there's years and years and years of background work to, uh, to get to that. I really like the, the Great Recession really scarred me. And so I was really, I mean, we, we took a huge hit during that now. And I was, I used to be called a gunslinger.

And then I became extremely conservative, you know, to where the strategy, the strategic component of me, which is my asset, you know, was refined. So, yeah, I 100% agree, you know, that these things have, you know, your skills are developed day over day, you know, one item at a time. And until you become, you know, technically, you know, competent technically on various, various different skills. and that just builds. Thank you for saying that, Andy. Thank you for acknowledging. Building skills is important. You have to do that if you want to be good at this.

It is not a secret backdoor to success that doesn't involve having to get good at something. You got to build skills here just like you had to build skills at the job you hated that you quit to get into real estate. I mean, that's some great advice. So many people get in and they're so angry and they're frustrated. I get the hateful DMs or they come to a meetup and they just want to like, you said that I was going to get passive income and I was never going to have to work. Well, first time, I didn't say that, but you have heard that. I don't know why you believed it.

There is no diet where you can eat a bunch of donuts and they're not going to go to your hips or whatever the case is. It doesn't work that way. Rob's waking up at 5.30 in the morning because that's the only way that he can do it with the circumstances he has. He's building skills. So thank you for being honest about that and not portraying it in a way that makes people want to go pay for your course or pay for whatever you're doing because you're selling a

dream that they'll never accomplish. No, that's not real. Yeah, active, yeah, passive income is not passive. Yeah, it's a good. It's passiver is what I tell people. It is not passive. That's it. It's better. Passer. It's a passish. Passish. There you go. The Pashish investment podcast. All right, Andy, if people want to find out more about you or even if they want to connect, I'm sure your story's can inspire a lot of people. Where can they get a hold of you? Well, on Instagram at Coach Andy Gill. That's G-I-L, A-N-D-Y-G-I-L. Awesome. Rob. What about you? Yeah, you can find me, over on Instagram and YouTube at Rob Built. And, you know, if this story was inspiring and you're like, wow, I'm going to take action or like, hey, I've been dealing with ADHD and I didn't know that I could do this real estate thing. If that was something that resonated with you, consider leaving us a five-star review on the Apple podcast platform. That way we can get served up to many other real estate entrepreneurs and help them achieve financial freedom. How about you, David? You can find me on David Green24.com or David Green 24 at all the social

media profiles and let us know what you thought about this interview so you can DM any of us. Let us know what you thought. Definitely reach out to Andy and then leave us comments on YouTube. If you're watching there, we read those. I appreciate you guys. Andy, you did great, man. I really appreciate you being here. You have a great story. Thanks for being so authentic and sharing what really goes on in the real world of real estate investors, not the glamorous shiny TikTok videos where people are being taught how to become millionaires in a seven second video. No, it's just a lot of scars. You know, I love listening. You know, it's really, it's really a, it's surreal to be meeting, you know,

and talking to you guys after the amount of hours I've listened to you to both of you. And so I super appreciate the horse. Rob, what about you? Any last words here? That is a bad question. This is David Green for Rob, the bad boy of real estate. Abas Solo, signing up. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast.

sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. On the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer, the show is produced by Ian K, copywriting is by Calico content, and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own.

Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk. So use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. BiggerPockets LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential, or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast.