BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - 848: From Bussing Tables as a New Immigrant to Making $5K/Month from Rentals w/Keleisha Carter

Episode Date: November 24, 2023

Keleisha Carter built a $5K/month passive income stream as a new immigrant with NO green card, money, or ability to get a mortgage. After realizing that her corporate job in Jamaica wouldn’t lead her to where she wanted to be, Keleisha made the adventurous decision to pack up everything she had and move to the US. Overnight, she went from a high-respected marketing role to bussing tables in an entirely different country, but she had bigger plans. Keleisha’s goal was to support her family financially in any way she could and eventually bring them to the States. After numerous promotions, Keleisha built up a small sum of savings that she would use to buy her first rental property. Or, that was the plan until she realized that without being a US citizen, purchasing a home and getting a mortgage would be much more complicated than she thought. In today’s show, Keleisha shares her smart strategy to get around the banks and buy properties, EVEN as a new immigrant. Plus, she’ll show how she’s buying rentals today WITHOUT using her own money and why she’ll NEVER try to flip houses again. In This Episode We Cover: How to get around mortgage qualifications and buy your first property WITHOUT the banks Quitting corporate and when it’s time to take a risk and leave a soul-sucking job behind An immigrant’s guide to real estate investing without a Green Card or citizenship Why EVERY BRRRR (buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat) property MUST work as a house flip How to find the perfect out-of-state investing market even if you have ZERO investing experience And So Much More! Links from the Show Find an Agent Find a Lender BiggerPockets Youtube Channel BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets Pro Membership BiggerPockets Bookstore BiggerPockets Bootcamps BiggerPockets Podcast BiggerPockets Merch Listen to All Your Favorite BiggerPockets Podcasts in One Place Learn About Real Estate, The Housing Market, and Money Management with The BiggerPockets Podcasts Get More Deals Done with The BiggerPockets Investing Tools Find a BiggerPockets Real Estate Meetup in Your Area Be a Guest on the BiggerPockets Podcast Henry's BiggerPockets Profile Henry's Instagram Rob's BiggerPockets Profile Rob's Instagram Rob's TikTok Rob's Twitter Rob's YouTube BiggerPockets Podcast 636 with Amy Mahjoory (Part 1) BiggerPockets Podcast 352 with Diego Corzo Connect with Keleisha: Keleisha's BiggerPockets Profile Keleisha's Facebook Keleisha's Instagram Keleisha's LinkedIn Keleisha's Website   Click here to listen to the full episode: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-848 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email [e-mail]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast show 848. We know you're going to get a lot out of today's story. We're here with Kalisha, and she's going to be talking about how she built a portfolio that brings in $5,000 per month. She's also going to be talking to us about the things she is changing and tweaking to adapt in this current market. Yes, yeah, and I'm here. I'm Rob Abasolo, your host of the show, joined here by my good friend, Henry Washington. And this is what we try to do on the Bigger Pockets podcast show every single week. We bring you stories, how-toes, and answers. that you need in order to make smart real estate decisions now in today's current market. Kalisha, welcome to the show. How you doing? Hey, guys, I'm doing fantastic. I'm so happy to be here. 2019 in the making. It's here. A little bit of background on you, Klisha. Your portfolio is currently five units in the Smoky

Mountain, San Antonio, Florida, Atlanta, and Virginia Market. You're joining us from Tampa. You've done 15 plus deals in the past three years. And you've got to, I think you gross $18,000 per month from properties, but your net is about $4,000 to $5,000 per month. Did I miss anything? No, you're solid, right on point. Awesome. And what about you, Henry? Where are you joining this from? It looks like you're in Nashville at the moment with your collection of guitars in the background. It does look like I'm in Nashville. I am not. I am here in Northwest Arkansas, but I'm recording this at a good friend of mine owns a recording studio here. I'm actually having a meet up later here. So I thought I'd come and take advantage of this beautiful background and make myself look

cooler than I am. Well, awesome. Well, you know, a little surprise for everyone that sticks around until the end. Henry's actually going to pull one of those guitars down and serenade us a little song, a little ditty. So you're going to, it's a special tune he wrote for the bigger pockets listeners. So to drop right into your story, Kalisha, you moved to the U.S. in 2018 from Jamaica. And when you got to the U.S., you picked up a job busing tables and hostessing. Can you tell us what your first summer felt like and what was going through your mind at that time? Man, it was scary. I was going into a whole new playing field because I've never worked in a restaurant before coming from corporate Jamaica doing marketing. And to give up that job to go busing tables,

I'm like, what, what am I doing? Like, this is too scary. And it was at the same time, very exciting because I was touching on something completely new that I've never done before. So that little scariness, I think it kind of pushed me to be like, try something new. That's cool. What were you doing in Jamaica, what was your world of, what was your line of work at that time? So I was doing marketing for an insurance company, one of the biggest insurance company back home. And I got the ideal job everyone would say after graduating. But I think after that, the marketing kind of corporate sucked the life out of me and it made me lost the passion that I had for marketing. So I'm like, I needed something new. I needed to take a risk with my life and decided to move to the U.S.

Yeah, you know, I was, I was just about to ask that. I wanted you to dive a little deeper, like, what was driving that decision? Because that's a big leap of faith. Like, it's kind of casually covered that you just moved to another country and took a job waitressing instead of marketing like it was nothing. Like, that's a big transition. What drove that? Man, it was, I was at the part of my life where I was trying to figure out what I need to do. And I think I was just being surrounded by people who were just there in the job for years.

And all this day was complained. I hate this job. I hate this job. And I'm like, I don't want to be in this position. And I think that year for me, the theme was take risk. I didn't know what that was, but it was just to take risk. And I was like, I'm going to quit my job. And I'm going to move to the U.S.

I know a lot of other Jamaicans who quit their job where left the country to go to the U.S. to chase the American government. For us, too, it's also to make more money. So I was like, I'm going to do that. And did you come alone or did other people in your family? Did someone join you or was this kind of like a solo journey? So that's the crazy part. I did it alone.

Wow. I did it all alone, left my mom and my brother back home. She didn't want me to leave either. She was like, are you sure you want to do this? But at the end of the day, she was very supportive with everything that I was doing. You know, and I heard you say something when we talked about you taking the job in the restaurant industry. You said that that was scary. You were doing a corporate marketing job, but talked about.

the restaurant industry is a scary job. Like what made that scary to you? Because people think that working in a restaurant, it's easy. And for me, back home or culture, like, for you to give up the perfect job to go serve someone, they consider you to be the help. And I think in the restaurant space, a lot of persons look down on you based on what you're doing. And I'm like, I've never done something like that before. And it was just, it was very installed. It was a lot of pride for me. I didn't tell friends, a lot of friends what I was doing. I used, it was very active on social media. And I wasn't even posting those things I was doing on social media. Only when I went for a break, then I'll post, oh, I'm traveling. And people would be like, how are you traveling? Like,

but I was so, I was embarrassed too. I was very embarrassed because to leave, as you said, your corporate job to go clean tables, clean toilets, right? To have someone do this, like snap fingers at you and stuff like that. It's something that I've, I've never experienced. So it was, and it was also very humbling moment for me as well. Got it. Yeah. You know, the first job I ever had, I was actually a bus boy and I used to serve chips and salsa. And, you know, when people run out of their chips and salsa, they are quite feisty. And they are not the nicest, they are not the nicest person to you. So I totally feel for you there. And I think it's a really brave leap. It's hard enough to move, you know, I've moved a couple

times with my wife across the country and that's really scary. So to do it by yourself shows a tremendous amount of bravery and courage. And we're going to talk about how your waitressing job was actually a good thing for your future in real estate. But before we do, we're going to have a quick break. Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle, active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress? Here's a better question. What if you could buy brand new construction homes, 10% below market value in the best markets across the country, without making real estate your second job? That's exactly what rent to retirement does. They're a full service turnkey investment company handling everything for you. In some cases, investors get 50 to 75%

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apartment complexes. So if you own investment property, this is a no-brainer. So visit Costsegregationguise.com slash BP for your free proposal and find out how much you could save this tax season. And we're back here with Kalisha and we just talked about how you had this, you know, this big move from Jamaica back to the United States or to the United States, rather, and you quit your job in corporate to kind of work in the restaurant industry. You mentioned you still had family back in Jamaica. Can you tell us about your relationship with your mom and your brother? I have a very tight relationship, a really good relationship with my mom and my brother. I grew up as an only child. So it was always just me and my mom. And then my brother came in the

picture 15 years ago. So everything, all I've known is just Kalisha and Nadine. And even when I moved to college, back when I went to college, it was like hours away. And we still had a great relationship there as well. But I think one of the scary thing when I moved was my mom also depended on me. What that mean is she looked towards me in terms of making better for her, making better for me, because she didn't know better. So when she saw me pushing myself, I think that's why she was so supportive because she's like, okay, I don't know how to guide you, but it seems like you have that drive and you know what you want. I'm just going to support you in what you're doing. And I think when even my brother was born, which is crazy, I hated it.

When I found out she was pregnant, I was like, no, I want to be the only child. Typical big sister. I was like, I want to be the only child. But then when he came in the picture, it's like I saw the same trend that was happening to me growing up. So as I said, it was just me and my mom and my father, he wasn't that involved financially. And I saw the same thing with my brother as well. So I was like, yeah, I need to break that trend. I need to be, I'm here, I left them, I need to make sure I work and I make some money so I can take care of them.

Whatever is it that they need, even if I'm here in the U.S. and I'm suffering, I don't have food or anything like that. As long as I know her rent is covered, food and she's good and they're good, I'm solid. First of all, I want to comment on like the sibling rivalry. I have two daughters. I have a five-year-old and a three-year-old. And I remember when we brought home our youngest daughter, my, my oldest at the time was two. And we were like, here is your new sister. And we like handed her the baby.

And she like put one hand on her, looked at her and goes, all done, baby. All done, baby. So this sounds like you had a similar experience. Here's what I love about what you said. It's that you took this giant leap of faith and you knew you wanted to do something. better for yourself, but felt this obligation to take care of home and the people at home. And this is something you were doing before real estate, right? Like a lot of people are probably thinking, I came and I did a bunch of real estate and

then I could send money home. Like, no, you were doing this when you were waiting tables and being a server and taking care of those around you. And I just want to make sure that you get your flowers for having that heart and that mindset. Thank you. Yeah. So, Kalisha, was it ever an option for your mom and your mom? your brother to come to America with you? So the current thing is first my brother is a citizen.

And the condition that they knew I was living in, they know I was trying to figure it out. It wasn't an option for them to come yet. But this is one thing I always tell them. I always said, when the time is right, you guys will come. Because I don't want you guys to come here and suffer the way how I was. I don't want you guys, my mom, to be doing certain jobs that I didn't want to do. right so I said when I know that I make enough money when I can get you your house and you have your place to rent because I can't live with my mom and she knows that I was like we're not living together at all um so when I told her that she was like you know what I understand um she always tell me and I'm going to quote this in power she was like do what you afidu Miguel yeah what that mean is

do what you have to do yeah yeah whatever it is that you need to do just do what you got to do I'll be here when you're ready. How important was it for you to know you had that support back home, backing you up no matter what, win or lose? It means so much even getting ready for this interview. Like my mom called me and she just started praying and she started crying. And she's like, she started going back down memory. And she's like, I remember when it was just us and we were doing this. And she would be like, we've been coming from so far.

And I was like, mom, just calm down. I just relax. But I think it truly means a lot. And I've heard so many different stories where persons don't have like a strong support system. And I think that's something I'm extremely grateful for. Like your support doesn't have to be a large group of people. But if you have that one or two person, that means a lot to you, if you know that

you have their support when you feel like giving up and you can just call and be like, hey, it's tough. You know, like my mom used to call me and she used to see like bags under my eyes and she starts crying. She's like, come back home. Like, I don't like how you look. Come back home. You're not eating. You're not sleeping. I lost so much weight. And I was like, no, I'm not coming back home. Yeah. So tell me more. You're busing tables. And at first, you think that, you know, you're going to be in the U.S. temporarily. You're going to be working this job and sort of work through it and kind of move up the ladder. Then what happens? How does that job go? So it's crazy.

So I went to that job on Martha's Vineyard for one summer. And apparently it seemed like I did a good job. The owner was like, can you just stay for the rest of the season? I'm like, sure. I went back the following season to do food running. So I got promoted from hostess and busing tables to food running, which is taking the food from the kitchen to the table. What crazy enough is that the year after, I ended up doing food running and got promoted

to being a manager. So I was doing two roles at once. Yes. That's cool. And I think when I got, when after he's like, I can't have you doing both roles, let's just switch you over to managing the restaurant full time. And for me, like, again, this is completely new for me. I'm managing staff, everything like that. But I think in being in that position, it opened my eyes to so many different things. I learned a lot about myself how to be patient, how to come up with solutions, especially being under pressure. And it also helps me to connect with so many different persons. Because now persons, I'm having conversation with customers who are coming in. And they'll be like, oh, what do you do? You're searching intelligent young lady, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, this is my background. And I'm looking to get into real estate. That was the kicker.

Because when I mentioned that, everyone found it's an opportunity for them to tell me that, oh, I do this here. I do that there. So I'm like, oh, really, tell me more. So it was also a learning opportunity for me, even though I had no clue about real estate, but other persons were telling me about their experience and giving advice of things what I could do. Man, this is fantastic because one thing you said that I love was that when you, your mom mentioned, hey, do you need to come back home when she saw you were, you know, you were losing weight and took that as a sign that maybe you weren't able to feed yourself. You had a, this was a plan A, there's no plan B.

is going to work or it's going to work, right? And I think that that is the exact mentality that new investors need to have when they're getting into this space because I think a lot of people try to get into real estate and they try, right? They give it a go. And trying doesn't mean success, right? You really have to have a mindset of, I'm going to find success no matter what it takes because this business is hard. The past maybe three years or four years, it's been a whole lot easier than it has been now, but I think people are really starting to see that, oh, crap, like, you can screw up in this business and it will hurt if you're not paying attention. And if, and you're seeing a lot of people kind of quit now because it's a lot harder than it was a

few years ago. And so, uh, having that mindset, I think obviously was beneficial to you starting your business. And I think that more people need to take that from your story and have that mindset. And the second thing is you tell everybody what you're going to do you tell everybody, you do and you introduce yourself with that title, whether you've had success in it or not. Because if you introduce yourself as an investor, even if you've never done a deal, it's going to open the door to people wanting to help you and give you the things that that that person or that type of person gets. If you want to be an investor and you say, hey, yes, I'm a severer, but I am, I am a real estate investor. I'm looking to do my first deal. And they know you're waiting tables. Real estate

investors want to help. They're like, oh, yeah, we got to, yeah, let's help you get up out of right and it's just it opens that door it's very like uh we had amy majury on the show man i want to say like about a year ago and uh her thing is like she raises money from people and the the way she introduces herself to like her trader jo's cashier or her uber driver or whatever she'll say hi i'm i'm amy and i help people get double-digit returns backed by real estate and it's like her i think she calls it like her 10 second power pitch or something like that it's it's 13 words and it just gets someone to say oh what does that mean and then you kind of start the conversation so i think It's a good lesson for everyone at home. If you're breaking into the business, make it very clear to everyone that you ever talk to or ever meet that you want to get into real estate because oftentimes when someone's a real estate investor, they want help from a newbie to kind of like do free work. And I think that's a really great way to break into the business. So with that, I have a quick question about this whole situation. You said that you're kind of moving up the corporate ladder, if you will, in the restaurant business. Do you happen to remember what you were making back then? Like, what?

What was the income like then, especially compared to what you were earning back in Jamaica? A lot of money. A lot. Like when, oh, yes. When I got into whole system, the first job and when I saw the money, so when I just started, I think I was making about like 700 bucks a week. Right. And that doesn't include tips. That would work out to be like what my monthly pay would have been back home.

Wow. So you were making per week what you would make in a month in Jamaica. Yeah. When I told my mom, I was like, oh my gosh. And then when I started making crazy tips, I was like, huh. But I think the thing was for me, I was like, I want to keep making more money, more money. And I was like, I need to have enough money. But it's like I was being trapped in the cycle of I just want more money.

And it just, it's so hard to come out of that cycle. because you see all the money that you can make and you're like, I'm just going to give it one more season. And I think the money can be bad, but it can also be good. But I think it got to a point where during the off season, I think because we're a very seasonal restaurant. And I was like, I need to do more with my life. Like I need to do something else because I'm the person who I always have things figured out. And I didn't have a clue at that time what I wanted to do at all. And honestly, persons asked me how I made a decision.

and I said, hey, I asked myself two questions. I love watching HGTV and I love watching Food Network. I love eating the food. I love it. I was like, I love eating the food and I would try the food, but I'm not going to cook it. And I was like, well, let's try this thing called HGT, let's try this real estate thing. And I honestly, guys, all I did was like everyone else, I went on Google, how to start investing in the U.S. And bigger pockets came up.

And that's how I started. Literally just putting it all in Google. And from there, psh. That's amazing. And so did you jump into the forums? Were you listening to the podcast? Like, what were the big moments for you whenever you stumbled upon like the bigger pockets community as a whole?

I would say, well, the forums was it? But for me, it was so overwhelming because I didn't know which direction to take, where to start. I didn't have anyone that I could ask for guidance or anything like that. but I got into the forums and the forums I saw a lot of person like in being engaged, asking questions, and then I pivot into the podcast. And so I was doing both the podcasts, the forums. And I was also doing, I think, I don't know if you guys still do, but like the free guides,

like beginners guide to real estate invest in. So I went through all those. I was like, give me all the free books. And I went through those. And I think one of the hiccup that I was getting into was I thought I could get a loan. I was like, all right, I'm ready to go. And I'm talking to lenders and they're like, what's your credit score? I'm like, 700 and this.

They're like, okay, how much money do you make? And I'm like, this amount. They're like, oh, you're the perfect candidate. Guys, there's something on the loan application. I always ask you, are you a U.S. citizen? Right. Yeah. And I'm like, no.

And I was like, hmm, but I look good on paper. They're like, yeah, you're not a green card holder either. I was like, well, if I give you a case number, would that help? They're like, nope, we need a gun. government issue ID. So when you say case number, you mean you would apply for the green card, but it wasn't approved yet? Correct.

Okay. So still going through that process. And I think during that time, you know, like when you think that, okay, you got over analysis, paralysis, and then you think you have everything figured out, but then you hit this other roadblock. And I'm like, all right, but then the crazy thing is a lot of lenders weren't giving me solutions. So then I went back to the forums because, again, the bigger pockets forum was a play. That was my network of people that I could always go and ask question for. So I went back to the forum and I was and I searched how to get a loan as an immigrant. So I made sure to put that in.

And then someone directed me, which is crazy, directed me to an episode with Diego Corso. My God. Oh, my gosh. Nice. Yes. Yes. Oh, my God. is the best. Let me tell you that episode, when I listened to that episode, I was like,

yes, I knew there is a way. I knew I'm not the only person want to get into real estate as an immigrant. And everything that he shared, how he got his first investment property, I was like, this is insane. This is amazing. And the fact that he didn't have a lot of the things that I still had, he had really bad credit score or no credit score at all. He just had money and his passport. And I'm like, if he did it, then I can do it. And I remember just DM in after that episode. spoke to him, talked to an attorney, and that's how I got my first property too. So shout out to Diego. That's what, yeah, Diego. I think he's real Diego Corzo on Instagram, but he does like the tip of the day and he found me at BP Con like two weeks ago and

was like, can you do a tip of the day? It's a very nice guy. I highly recommend like checking out of kind of very, very nice and a bucket full of sunshine, if you will. So to clarify, Kalisho, what was the takeaway from that episode that made a difference for you? So with Diego, what he mentioned, that he just partnered with his uncle and they just got an LLC. And he funded a deal. And his uncle was a citizen. And then he ended up just getting alone using the LLC. When I heard that what he explained, I realized that I need to get a partner in order to figure out this finance in option.

Okay, so you come across this episode and you feel inspired. You start working with an attorney. Tell us, tell us about your first deal. Like what ended up happening? So first deal, first day, I did out of state investing. So my first deal was in Memphis. And it took a little while for me to figure out Memphis because, again, I don't know much about the states. So I don't know which states to start from. So bigger pockets, the person on the forum recommended like three states, Kansas City, Cleveland, Ohio, Memphis. So I did a full-blown research, my partner and I at that time. And we decided to go in Memphis. Took us a year because we're like, we need to learn the area, learn the zip codes, all that stuff. Got our first burr deal in Memphis, Tennessee. Should have been a burr. We got this deal from a wholesaler because, again, we were taught that. I learned that the best deals come from wholesalers. So went on Facebook groups, got, like, connected with a bunch of wholesalers and stuff like that.

Found a wholesaler. And he was like, I told him, hey, we're in town. do you have any properties? Do you can take a look at? So again, we took the risk and went to the city just to see if we can get a property. Got the first deal. It was in an ideal neighborhood of Memphis that we wanted. And he was selling for about $30,000. And we had our contractor slash project manager, which we also found on Bigger Pockets. Guys, I'm going to mention them a lot. Hey, that's okay. You can plug us. They're like all my resources. And he walked the property with us. like, oh my God, guys, like, this is going to need a lot of work. We're like, yeah, we know

we're excited about it. We want to do it. He was like, are you guys crazy? You live out of state. This is a full gut. Roof was missing, only had framing. You could see the plumbing in the floor, everything. We're like, no, this is where the money is at. This is what we learned about. So we made an offer for that deal for $19,000. The wholesaler said, no, you need best and final offer. We got it for $25,500, so we beat out another investor. And then we used hard money to get the rehab and the purchase. The great thing was, guys, was that we had money saved up because we thought we would need money for the deal. But we found a fantastic hard money lender who gave us 100% finance for the purchase and 100% of the rehab.

So we're like, yes, this is going to be the perfect burr that David all stuck about being zero out of pocket. this is going to be amazing. So let me walk me through this very fast. So you found a wholesaler in Memphis and they had a property that was $30,000 bucks. And you made an offer. This wholesaler was like, dude, how are you going to do this? There's barely walls in this place.

And you guys came in and you offered a lower amount. You settled on $25,500. And then you actually found a like a hard money lender who would finance pretty much the entire thing. And was it a pretty easy, peasy renovation? Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no, no, no. The beginning of this was just too positive. I was like, no way. No, it trust me. It wasn't. Firstly, we found out that the plumbing and the electrical was done incorrectly.

When our contractor told us, we're like, come on, we're like, how much is this going to cost right now? So he did a couple bids and it came out to $7,000. And I was like, please don't, I don't want anything else to go wrong. After that, thank God, everything went smoothly. Okay. When we're almost getting ready to do the refinance, this is where the another issue came in. You're not a U.S. citizen. I can't refinance. I'm like, guys, come on.

You run our credit, my partner at the time, you run Botafore credits two times and said, you guys are good to go and she'll let you know when it's time to do refinance and then nothing. Now it's an issue. So here's a tricky thing, and I would highly recommend would anyone get it in. When talking to lenders, talk to as many lenders as possible. Yes. Because it's, you always need to have a backup plan. Because one lender said that you guys are good.

It's a solid deal. Let's do a refinance. We're good. Only find out that my partner who had, he was, had his green card. Oh, you need, he needs two years of self-employment tax return. He only had one. Then I still look good on paper. So remember what I mentioned that Diego,

directed us on what to do. After speaking with our attorney, we got an LLC. So we got an entity to show that we're both partners, and then that way we would get a loan in the entity itself. So in doing that, it was still an issue because I could not own more than 25% of the entity. So you see like all the roadblocks that keep- Right.

And I'm sure you're finding this out seconds before closing. I feel like that's how it always is. All of it. The lender says, no, you're good. And then you're at the closing table. Well, actually, we need this receipt from your Tripoli order in 2013. All the time. And keep in mind, there's time, too.

We already figured out we can't even use the first lender to do refinance. We're now on month seven. So we had to pay for a hard money loan extension, the renewal fee, plus the extension. Oh, so expensive. But I'm so glad. that hard money allowed us to wrap the loan, the interest payment into the loan. So at this time, as well, we were not out of the pocket for the interest payments at all. And he was like, if you guys hit to month eight, you're going to have to start paying the interest payments.

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in real estate investing on your first deal. I call that project that you did a fixing flip. That's pretty much how they go. There's very few where it's like, hey, we got it, and then we painted it, and then we sold it for all kinds of money.

Like you, but that's the whole point, right? As you learn lessons along the way, you made pivots, you made the right pivots, you didn't let anything just stop you. You always looked at things through a lens of like, how can I resolve this or how can I get this fixed? And that mindset will always serve you well. One thing I want to ask you that I think people are going to want to hear about is you mentioned that you had looked at three markets. So you went and you got recommendations on three markets. And then you did, I think it said, you said,

like a year's worth of research before you dove in. I think that that's hugely important that, we highlight that. You didn't just go and say, hey, bigger pockets people, tell me where to invest. And then they say some cities and then you go buy properties there. Like, I think people do that. And so what would you say or what advice would you give to people or what should people be looking at when they are evaluating markets out of state to invest in? What did you guys look for? What we did was we just found other investors in the area and asked them to share their experience in terms of, hey, why are you investing in using this strategy in that market? And what would take? notes. And if we learned that it's a zip code basis or a street by street basis, then we ask those

investors, which zip code should we look into and why? So when we did that portion of it, so the zip code was very heavy for us, then we looked on why, is this a market where persons are renting a lot or are they buying? It came down to Memphis was where you can get the 1% rule, like one of the best market where you can get 1% rule. What that mean is, if you purchase a house for 100,000, you can get rents for a thousand or more or even 900 bucks. So it came down to the 1% rule. It came down to the zip codes. And it also came down to, I think, with Memphis, the big companies. What big companies are there in that market? For us in Memphis, it was Amazon. It was Nike. And it was, it was known as like the distribution hub. So a lot of like big companies stop in the middle of Memphis.

So we're like, bingo. And we decided to choose a zip code that were super, close to Amazon and Nike because those people are going to always need somewhere to live. So we didn't go far away. And all of this, guys, we figured it out after just talking to other investors. Each investor told us something completely new and we just start adding it to, like we have, I had a full notebook. You know those section notebooks where you can section it off? Each city had a section and everything that we learned, sticking note, just making notes.

and while we're going along, building our team as well for each person that we spoke to. So you made like an out of state investing scrapbook. Yes. Well, that's really smart, Alicia. I mean, I think, yes, finding some of these big business hubs and putting, you know, properties around there, never going to be a bad idea. Can you tell us what the actual price of the, the total price of the renovation and then the total sale price?

So we kind of understand the numbers on this one because I know you said you bought it for $25,500. So bought it for $25,500. the rehab amount was 52,000, and then it increased the 59,000. When we bought this property, we estimated the ARV to be 100,000. When it was time to resell, we listed it for 117, and then we sold it for 125. Hey, there we go. Yeah.

West Hollywood. Yeah. Nothing like coming $25,000 over your initial ARV. Listen, I remember that when we got the direct department. And my partner was like, oh my God, we got paid. And for us, just to see that amount, we're like, again, from our background, that's a lot of money from one deal. And we got this drive to be like, oh, we need another one. We need to get one more deal because we saw the money and it looks so good.

But I think one of the biggest lesson for me then was to kind of pause and enjoy the moment and soak it all in instead of want to get to the next step. because we tend to forget that a lot. So when I look back on my, when we just started, now, every deal that I close, I take time to soak up that moment and celebrate it. That's amazing. That's amazing. So you pull a $40,000 profit on the first property, rough numbers there. So you did one more fix and flip and then you shifted to short-term rentals, if I understand that correctly. What were your biggest lessons from fix and flips in general? Oh, it's not for me. It gives me anxiety. That's a great lesson. That's the best lesson you could learn.

That's a lesson I'm learning right now every single time I get into a flip. Listen, it's too much anxiety. I like anything that is buying whole minor rehab. Plus, we're doing all of this remotely too. So I'm like, no way. I'm not doing that again. And there's the fact that you listed. You're like, how soon am I going to sell it?

Are we going to get any offers? I was like, no, that just gives me too much anxiety. But it was also to that everything that you do, you need to have two exit strategies. And that didn't hit me until this year. It's like everything that you're doing, make sure you have two exit. And when I look back, I feel like every single deal, I always had to pivot. Every single deal. Like I can't think of any one deal where I started with one strategy and ended with the same strategy.

I was like, okay, this is a trend. This is completely a trend. Stick to your criteria. I think the important thing is that you tried it, right? You tried it, you did it. You found a solution. You pivoted. I think the most important skill you can learn as a real estate investor is how to pivot.

instead of sitting there and floundering. And if you can pivot quickly, you can be successful in whatever type of real estate you learn to do so long as you have multiple exit strategies, which I think is a very important lesson for people. So, okay, so you found out fix and flips, not really your thing. You shifted into short-term rentals and I believe you have three. How are you funding these now? And how do you keep an edge in this particular market? Ooh, creative finance and a private money all day, every day. And what do you mean by creative financing? So creative financing, meaning your taking over the property subject to or seller financing. So I'm going to go back a little bit before knowing that I was one, using private money or two, structuring these creatively.

When we got the first property in the Smoky Mountains, we got a DSCR loan. And with the DSCR loan, you need about 20 to 25% down. Right. That time for us, it was about $130,000 altogether that we needed. And really, really fast, for everyone at home that doesn't know what a DSCR loan is, it's a debt service coverage ratio loan. And it's basically where they use the income of your property to underwrite instead of your personal DTI and credit and everything like that. I mean, there's a few other parameters. But essentially, they're using the income, the projected income of that property to qualify

you for that loan. Sorry, I wanted to clarify that because I know a lot of people, they just hear acronyms sometimes. So carry on. So we use the D.S. And then we had money from our fix and fit, but we're still short. So because we were telling. friends and family what we're doing and what we're hoping to do, we went to them and we're like,

hey, we want to get this property, but we're short about 50 to 60,000. Just putting it out there, and then two persons from our network decided to give us money. So even though their friends and family, we didn't know it was private money. So what we did was, we're like, hey, can you just lend us this money? And we would just give you a percentage of the cash flow. We were just storing things out there. We didn't do like a promissory note mortgage deed or anything. like that. We're like, we give you a percentage of the cash flow for anything that we make. And whenever during the slow season, you can go to the cabin and stay there. That was the agreement. That's it. So that was the first creative deal that we got. And then

after now, I just buy most of the properties, creative financing, and then whatever I need, a closing cost, or decorate furnishing costs, I raised that amount in private money and get the deal funded. So most times I'm zero out of pocket. You know, I'd be willing to bet, too, that a lot of what made this research of learning how to do creative finance and subject to financing more maybe achievable for you is because of your background. And you knowing, like, I need an alternative strategy. And so kind of when your backs against the wall, there's no other option, right? You're going to go figure out how can I get this done? And I think I'm not saying that to discourage people from going to learn how to do these things.

I'm saying that from the perspective of put yourself in that mindset. What if you could never go to a bank again? Would that mean you're never going to be a real estate investor? Like if you think from that perspective, okay, I'm going to pretend I can't go to a bank for my next deal. So I got to go and learn how would I buy a property if I couldn't? And that just kind of helps you sharpen the tools in your tool belt. So I think that that's super cool. You also are pivoting or have pivoted to more of a midterm rental strategy. Is that correct? And so, How is this midterm rental strategy going for you? And how are you either growing or expanding that? Like, what have you learned that's making you push to that direction? So full disclosure, I haven't done my first midterm rental yet. I'm literally still going through that process. Cool. The reason of being trying to pivot is that I think I got spoiled with the smoky mountains.

I got so small. Because for one year, like it's for the entire year, it's a great market. I'm always booked. And then when I got another property in San Antonio, I was like, hmm, I'm not used still with just this weekend type of thing in my calendars open during the week. So I always heard about midterm rental. So what I did was I had a really good friend of mine in one of my mentorship. And I asked her about she's the expert again.

This is why I go to persons who are doing it. I don't want to figure it out everything. So I was like, hey, this is what I'm trying to do. What are some things that I can do? And she'd be like, okay, go on ALE, list a property there. Go on Furnace Finder, list of property there. Did all of that. Not working.

I'm like, okay. Some spoke to someone else. They're like, hey, put extended stay in your listing in the title. I was like, okay, going to try that. So in doing all of this, I went back and looked on the algorithm. I'm like, ooh, I put extended stay in my title. My views are going up. Okay.

Still no bookends. But I would go in. these Facebook groups and just put, hey, guys, I have this property in San Antonio. If anyone needs a short term, midterm rental or have connections, just let me know. I did that and someone was interested in the book in. Here was the worst thing. My calendar was open for one month. Guys, like one whole month.

And then I got a two-day book in. Right after that, someone is interested for a whole month. And I'm like, really? Yeah. And does it work exactly like that? When you're doing the short-term rental, mid-term rental hybrid, it is one of those things where it's best to focus on the mid-term rental strategy first and then fill your spaces with short-term rental. But it just, that's the ideal scenario.

Unfortunately, it doesn't always work that way. And the thing that hurts with mid-term rentals the most is it's an amazing business niche within this market. But the vacancy does hurt, you know? Oh, yeah. The vacancy is a lot bigger than it typically is with a short-term rental. I'm like, and I think that was a tough part. And I was so close to canceling that Airbnb guests. But I was like, nope, I've worked too hard for a super host.

I'm not even going to cancel unless the guest is sure that they're going to book for 30 days. So we did more research to verify a few things like, how soon are you looking to move? Does this budget work for you? Do you have X? Do you have a pet? At all these things, we verified all of this, we had. back in for a conversation, but guess what? The guest stopped responding. So they were never interested again. So I was so happy I didn't go and cancel that one booking that I had. Yeah. I think that's the philosophy I really ingrained in everybody is to never cancel a booking

like ever. No matter what, unless you just apps, I've had to cancel bookings because I had a glamping tent that got blown away by a monsoon. But other than that, there's no reason to do it because people really do create their vacations around your Airbnb. And if you cancel on them, it, you know, it could be a bummer on their, on their vacation, right? So what we try to do is we, we have multiple units nearby. And so if we get a midterm rental booking, we will just reach out, say, hey, we're going to move you to this unit. It's a little different. And then if they get mad about it, we'll give them a little discount. So you're saying the only time you've ever canceled on anybody is because their actual property blew away, where they were going to sleep with no longer there.

That is correct. And Airbnb has a really like, like a very strict policy. They're like, You can never cancel. And then I was like, yeah, my tent is literally not there. And then they're like, can you send photos? And I was like, do you want to send you a photo of air? Like, it's not there. It's gone. Listen to me.

That's hilarious. Oh, my gosh. Well, listen, Kalisha, I think it's awesome that you're trying that you're the pivot queen, okay? And I know that you're figuring things out. And this is actually one of my favorite episodes in that there are a lot of things that you're still figuring out. You know, a lot of people come on.

to this and it's like hard to really understand. But I think most people are in your your position right now where I mean, I'm still figuring stuff out too. Like I try different things all the time. I'm throwing darts out the wall and I'm trying new business models and I say, hey, you know, maybe this isn't my thing, but at least I tried it. And at least it reinforces that I should really stick to the things that I'm really good at and the things that I'm passionate about. So I mean, a lot of lessons to be taken out of today's episode. But in general, what actions do you think you consistently take that have made the biggest difference in your investing? One of them is. One of them is. understanding how to underwrite deals.

So when I just got, when I got into real estate, I always heard Brennan talk about analyze a deal every day. And I'm like, yeah, I'm doing that. I'm not getting it because I don't know what the rehab is. I don't know what closing costs are. I don't know all those stuff. And it was very discouraging. And I think until one day I was just doing analyzing a deal every day.

And that's when the light bulb went off. And I was like, oh, my God, I get it. He said analyze a deal every day. so that way you understand what numbers affect what? What that mean is, you will know, okay, if I want to increase my cash flow, do I need to increase my income or do I need to reduce my expenses? If I want to increase my cash and cash return, do I need to reduce my total cash invested or do I need to also reduce my expense?

So being able, the point of analyzing the deal every day is to understand what numbers affect what. So then you can master a napkin underwriting. Another thing that I do is for my short-term rentals, I would pretend as if I'm a guest because I always had guests tell me, oh my God, I love your place. And this is what I experienced. So I'm like, I want to experience it myself. So I would book any of my properties. I don't tell cleaners. I don't tell anyone. And I pretend as if I'm the guests. And when I get to the house, I follow the checking instructions. Everything that a check and instructions tell me to do, I'll do that. The first thing you do when you go to a hotel or Airbnb, you guys walk around because you want to see what this house has to offer. I do the same thing.

I walk in. I want to know what it's smell like. I want to know what feeling I get. And then I'm see all these switches, for example. And I'm like, oh, I wonder where the switch goes. And I'm just testing it all out. And in doing those things, I know that, okay, I need to label my switches. I get to the living room. I see two remote. I don't know which remote belongs to the TV. I was like, ooh, I need to label the remote to say living room remote. Those simple things, when you put yourself in the guest's shoe, it sets you apart and you know what you need to fix without even depending on your team as much because you're going to see things that your team won't. Smart. Yeah. It's always a very gratifying and disappointing experience because you realize

all the little things that sort of get moved around and everything over the course of a few months or six months. And I think that's a really important lesson to go and walk your properties. I know it's a novel concept and it's hard to do, especially at scale. But it is something that can be a little eye-opening and can really be pivotal to the optimization of your portfolio. William. Tell us where you're at today. Are you feeling gratified about the steps and the risk that you've taken? Like, how are things with your mom? Have you been sending your money and kind of like showing your success? Or how's that all been going? So it has been going really well. I'm very grateful for it. But one of the biggest thing that I'm learning is that I'm planning the

seats. What this mean is everyone thinks that when you get into real estate, you're going to be making a ton of money when you get in. No, you are not. You guys will hear Rob mentioned at the beginning that I'm making $5,000 net. Yes, but that's not going in my pocket. It's either going into reserves or it's using the payoff debt that I used to get in to all these mentorships and courses and all those things. Like, you are, you are going to, you're going to be broke, honestly. Like, you're going to be broke. You're going to feel like giving up. I mean, I think I'm going through one of the toughest time now in my career. And what's pushing me through is that I keep looking back to be like, you've come this far.

You can't give up now. Like it's just a phase. Just go through it. And each time I'm just figuring it out. And I think as well, it's just how can I get ready for the next season of my life? I don't have. I'm not the type of person to have a two-year goal or a three-year goal. I have 90-day goals.

When that 90 days come, I create a whole new goal. So for right now, for me, I just want to finish the year strong where my properties are cash flowing and I'm able to pay off all my lenders. Okay. Awesome. So we understand that you recently had a full circle moment with that same podcast guest who kind of showed you that this could be possible for you. So can you tell us a little bit about that? Yes. So when I met, when I listened to Diego's episode in 2019, we were going to. went back and forth. And in 2023, who would have thought? In August of 2023, I got a message from Diego. When I saw his DM popped up, I screamed.

I was like, you guys scream over like celebrities? I'm like, bigger pockets people are like my celebrities. I get starstruck. And when Diego messaged me and invited me to speak to his mastermind about capital raising, I was like, no way. I sent him a voice member and started screaming. I'm like, dude, you're the person who kind of get me to my first investment property because you shared your story. 2019, I never thought that would have happened.

Like a girl from Jamaica, cleaning tables, and you hear about real estate and wealth, you're like, oh, you need a family. It's going to take 10 years, 20 years. And just to see even after quitting my job last year and seeing how much I've accomplished in a year, it's like it's mind blowing. It just goes to show that anything can happen. It's like with you guys as well. when we met at BP Khan. Like I saw you guys. I was like, oh my gosh.

That's how I get when I meet Henry too. I was like, oh my gosh. And it's just showing that so much things can change when you start putting yourself in the right rooms. You start putting yourself out there and telling people what you're doing and sharing your story and your journey. It's like the universe starts sending things your way that you never thought would happen. I think that's real estate is all about taking small steps, right? It's a marathon, not a sprint. And I think you're right.

I think it's really, really crazy to see what you can accomplish in a year. I think there's like a phrase that's like, you know, we overestimate. Hold on, hold on, maybe you know it, Henry. We overestimate what we can do in a day, but we underestimate what we can do in a year. Yeah. Does that sound about right? Yeah. And I think that's true.

And we get so, like, caught up in this, like, daily grind of working and we're in meetings all day. And there's never real progress day to day. And, you know, you look back and you're like, whoa, like what I've done in the last year, two years, three years is a really life-changing thing. And it's the thing that I wanted more than anything else in this world when I started. I think you're like the perfect encapsulation of that idea. So thank you so much for bringing your story. And I think a lot of people are going to be inspired by it.

I know I am. Can you tell us a little bit more about where people can learn about you online and connect with you if they want to reach out? So yes. And I also wanted to say I always had this vision in my head when I, I started listening to the podcast. I'm like, one day I'm going to be on this podcast. I had like even an image in my head of what I'll be wearing.

I'll be wearing a black shirt, but I'm not wearing a black shirt today. But I'm grateful for just being here and sharing my story. And you guys can find me on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, at Kalisha Carter. So everything, all social media platform, my website, my YouTube channel, it is all my full name, Kalisha Carter. And how do you spell Kalisha just for everyone at home? K-E-L-E-I-S-H-A and last name C-A-R-T-R. So first of all, I want to congratulate you.

I want to congratulate you on quitting your job and finding your success in real estate. You're netting 5K a month with your current portfolio. That's amazing and it takes a lot of hard work. I want to say that I am proud of you for the leaps of faith and risks you were willing to take to better you and your family's lives. And I think that that's commendable. And I also want to say, I think there's a lot of power in and in having those visions. It's funny. I also had a vision of being on the Bigger Pockets podcast. I've told the story before, but I have, I still to this day have a vision board on my phone. And one of the tiles is a Bigger Pockets podcast tile because I wanted

to be a guest on the Bigger Pockets podcast. And when I started, when I actually got word that I was going to be a guest, I had listened to tons of episodes, and then I had kind of stopped listening to episodes. And so I was like, I need to get a refresher on how this goes. And so I started to listen to episodes again before I was going to get recorded. The very first episode I started to listen to again before I was going to be on the show was Diego's episode. And that's where I first got.

Wow. Yeah, 100%. Absolutely true. Well, that's amazing. Well, for anybody that wants to go and listen to that episode with, Diego Corso. It's episode 3.52. And if you've got a story, just like, just like Alicia's or you're working through your own thing and you think you have something to share with the Bigger Pockets community, you can go and fill out a form over on BiggerPockets.com slash guest. If you want to share your

story with our team, and then, you know, maybe you'll be selected to come and be an inspiration for everybody that listens to our podcast. Henry, if people want to find you online, where can they go? Best place is Instagram. I'm at the Henry Washington on Instagram, or you can check on my website. It's www.cuh at the closing table.com. Cool. You can always find me over on Instagram or YouTube. I can't even plug my own stuff. You can find me at YouTube. Once again, I'm at Rob Belt, R-O-B-U-I-L-T. And I did spell that right, didn't I? Don't be laughing on me. You nailed it. You nailed it. I can do this. Like, when David's gone, there's a lot of pressure to perform. We're grateful to everyone at Bigger Pockets and for all you guys listening. If you want to leave us a five-star,

you head on over to the Apple podcast platform or wherever you listen to your podcast and tell us what you thought about today's episode. But other than that, thanks everybody for listening and we will catch you on the next episode of Bigger Pockets. Welcome to the bigger, welcome to the bigger podcast. Oh, no, no, wait. That does not count. Don't take this away from me. Welcome to the big. Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle, active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress. Here's a better question.

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