BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - ‘Building’ 7-Figure Wealth with ONE Very Lucrative Rental Property

Starting point is 00:00:00 This investor made $100,000 in his first 18 months. But that only paved the way for an even bigger deal. We're talking really big, like about the potential to cash flow $7,000 per month with just a single property. Today, we're going to hear how he's doing it. Hey, everyone, it's Dave Meyer here with another Bigger Pockets podcast episode. And our guest today is David Rosenbeck. And if that name maybe sounds familiar to you, it's probably because he was on the real estate rookie show. back in March of 2023.

Starting point is 00:00:36 It was episode 273 if you want to check that out. At that time, when we last checked in with David, he was about a year and a half into his investing career and had generated over $100,000 in revenue with just a handful of midterm rental properties focused on travel nurses. He'd used that portfolio to transition into a lower-stressed W-2 job,

Starting point is 00:00:57 and he got to spend some time traveling the country. I wanted to bring David back onto the Bigger Pockets Network today because I think he's just a very good example of how even a small portfolio can change your life if you pick the right strategies. He also demonstrates really well how to challenge yourself and scale your investing into bigger properties without taking on unnecessary risk. Right now, David has a development project in progress in Sedona, Arizona, and this deal has the potential to generate a huge equity pop when it's finished. But I think what I really want to dig into as well is the way he's structured. his deal because I think it's a great blueprint to follow, even for newer investors who might

Starting point is 00:01:38 have less aggressive strategies than David. So let's welcome David back to the Bigger Pockets Network. David, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here. Dude, thank you for having me. Two Dave's is better than one, right? Yeah, absolutely. This won't be confusing at all for everyone listening. Well, we're super happy to have you here. I know you were recently on the Rookie Show, the Bigger Pockets Real Estate Rookie Show. If you haven't, go check out David's full story. But for those who haven't listened yet, maybe we could just give us a brief background on how you got into real estate investing in the first place, what you were doing at the time, full backstory here. For sure. Yeah. So I started investing back in 2020, which seems to kind of be the

Starting point is 00:02:18 MO of a lot of people. You know, once COVID hits, people were kind of looking around for alternative things. I was a nurse practitioner working in the hospital. And so whenever I was walking through the hospital, I was noticing that there was just like half of the nurses that I used to know seemed like they were gone because they were travel nursing somewhere. And then the other half of nurses that were still there were traveling nurses that were coming from elsewhere because it was just basically a gold rush for nurses that wanted to travel somewhere and make a lot of money. And while I was walking around, I started asking them, like, if I would have somewhere for you guys to stay that was furnished? Like, would you guys be interested in that? And they said, oh my gosh, yes, that'd be amazing. And I'm

Starting point is 00:02:51 originally from Fort Wayne, Indiana. That's where I started. That's where the majority of my portfolio is. And so I started with a house hack actually in Fort Wayne that had a carriage house out back. Oh, cool. So over the next. 24 months, I worked myself up to eight doors. My wife and I, so just for a quick reference for what we had on our first deal, it was a $150,000 property that we purchased and we put 5% down. It was like $8,700 out of pocket total. And it had the carriage house out back that was fully renovated, ready to go. We did some minor renovations to the main house. Our mortgage, I think, was $863 a month. And we were renting out that carriage house for $2,000 a month traveling nurses coming through.

Starting point is 00:03:29 And so not only were we, you know, living for free, but then also we were cash flowing like $4 to $500 a month off of our primary. So what's that started hitting? Then obviously, I was hooked. Yeah. I mean, that sounds like an amazing first deal and a good time to get into midterm rentals. 2020 was obviously a good time to get into investing in general. But it seemed like it was kind of just starting to hit its stride around 2020 and at least

Starting point is 00:03:54 investor wise. I didn't really heard much about it prior to the pandemic. And like you said, I have friends who are nurses. It was a cash grab. A lot of nurses were going and getting paid huge sums of money to travel around and be a different hospital. So credit to you to take advantage and see the opportunity, but also being in a really good place at a great time, which is, you know, the whole key in opportunity recognition. So before we get into what you're doing now, because we're going to spend a lot of the show on that today, were you able to get most of your bookings just through work? Or were you putting it on Furnish Finder and finding guests from some of the traditional paths as well?

Starting point is 00:04:34 I put it up on Furnish Finder and I put it on Airbnb as well. And at that time early like 2020, 2020, 2021, I would say about 75% of my bookings were coming from Airbnb because the travel nurses, they were making so much money. They didn't care about the Airbnb fees. They didn't care about any of that. They just needed a place to go so they could work and they could make money. But now probably about 50% Furnish Finder, 50% Airbnb. But still the majority of my bookings are.

Starting point is 00:04:57 transient workers. And whenever I originally started, I thought that it was just all going to be healthcare because that's my background. I understand healthcare. And that's kind of like one of the main drivers of economy in Fort Wayne is healthcare. But we've got some big factories around there as well. Google's putting in a new plant for servers. Amazon just put in a couple new facilities. So then I started getting a lot of other transient workers that needed to be there for three to six months. So the need for midter rentals definitely has not slowed down at all. Fort Wayne just seems to be a really hot market in general and there's just a lot of growth. I'm more of a, you know, a long-term rental investor, but when I look at the fundamentals, it's one of those markets that always seems to pop up as

Starting point is 00:05:34 being like strong growth, but still relatively affordable. So it seems like a great place to be. Yeah. I saw you guys actually just posted a podcast about Indianapolis. Yes. And I was looking at that. I was like, well, I'll see if I can sway his decision from Indianapolis to Fort Wayne. Yeah. Well, I haven't invested in either, but I like the Midwest generally. I think people who listen this podcast know that. I did want to ask you, though, you mentioned you got to eight doors relatively quickly. How did you finance eight doors? And what was it eight different individual properties or what did the portfolio look like? So it was our original house hack property. And then we did an accidental live in flip. My wife and I, whenever we first got married. So we were living about an

Starting point is 00:06:16 hour outside of Fort Wayne in the country where both of our families are from. We renovated that house. And then once we decided that we wanted to move the fourings, I was working in Fort Wayne, I was driving like an hour and 15 minutes one way to work. And we were like, okay, if we're going to be investing in Fort Wayne and let's get you closer to work, let's just move. So we sold that house and we made, I think we made somewhere in the neighborhood of like $40,000 or $50,000 on that live-in flip that we did. And then we bought the first property. And then within a month or two, I was interested in college rental. And so right there were our first three doors.

Starting point is 00:06:48 And then we waited until after our 12-month period, we were able to buy a new primary. And so then we left that house hack that we were in, made the main house a midterm rental, and we bought a townhome. And that town home was actually in a USDA zone. And so we were able to put 0% down for that property whenever we purchased it. And it was a brand new home. And so I think it was 237,000 when we bought it. It was still under construction whenever we put in a deposit, we put a deposit of 3% down with the builder. But then whenever we went to the bank, they actually gave us that money back because it was a 0% down USDA.

Starting point is 00:07:21 Yeah, so we got kind of like paid at the closing table with our own cash. That's the second person in the last week who's told me they've got paid at the closing table for closing it. It was fantastic. I've never heard of this, but I mean, now I've heard of it twice, but that's such an amazing situation. Wow. Yeah, it was outstanding. So that got us up to four. And then we got the co-hosting property.

Starting point is 00:07:40 So I count that as a door because we're running it for another guy. And then we got the arbitrage unit that gets us up to six. And then we just bought a new primary residence in May of last year. I believe, that had another house with a carriage house in it. So that's how we got up to our eight. Awesome. Great. So you own six. You're co-hosting one. You are doing arbitrage in another. It just sounds like a sort of a combination of hustle, owner-occupied strategies, you know, some of the classic ways that most investors can use to sort of get at least the first handful of properties. And you did it relatively quickly. So that was over the course of what? It's three years?

Starting point is 00:08:17 I think it was three years. Yeah. That's quick. That's great. Puddle jumping. That's the way to do it. That's why I always call it. You know, like after 12 months, you have to have a very understanding wife, which luckily I do and you have to be okay with moving. But at least if you're furnishing properties and then moving into the next, all you have to do is buy furniture. You don't have to move it because it's staying there for the next guest that's going to be staying. Well, that's true. Yeah. All right. Well, David, congrats on all your success. It's cool catching up with you. I do want to shift the conversation to what you're doing now. But first, we have to take a quick break. But before we hear from our sponsors, I want to remind everyone that right now we are selling

Starting point is 00:08:51 early bird tickets to the Bigger Pockets Conference. If you haven't heard or been to BBCon, it is so much fun. And this year, we are heading to Las Vegas. Tickets are on sale now with a limited early bird pricing, which are $100 off the tickets. If you haven't been, it's just this incredible opportunity to learn from experts, but also build your networks, deals get done. It's an amazing opportunity for a community to get together and grow together. So if you guys want to come to BPCon this year, hang out with the entire BP crew. Go to biggerpockets.com slash conference and get your early bird tickets today. We'll be right back. Thinking about wholesaling or flipping your first property, but not sure where to start.

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Starting point is 00:11:04 That's R-E-S-I-M-P-L-I-com slash bigger pockets. Did you know your house gets bored when you leave? I can't actually prove that, but it probably misses out on the action, the footsteps, the late night fridge raids. Yeah, when you're gone, your place is basically on unpaid leave. It's sitting there in the dark thinking, I could be contributing right now. Your side room wants a side hustle. Even your Wi-Fi is like, we could be networking. You're on vacation, spending money like it's a sport while your staircase at home is fully capable of sending your income upwards. Here's the twist. You can go on a trip

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Starting point is 00:13:15 Flagship Fund before investing. This and other information can be found in the fund's prospectus at fundrise.com slash flagship. This is a paid advertisement. Welcome back to the Bigger Pockets podcast. We're here with David Rosenbeck, who was just telling us about how he scaled from zero to eight midterm rental units during the pandemic years. David, it's cool hearing your backstory, but I'm curious to hear what you're up to today.

Starting point is 00:13:42 So catch us up. From those eight units, what have you been up to? Yeah. So I got a remote job in May of 2022. And we kind of traveled around for like the next year and a half or so, trying to decide where else in the U.S. we maybe would want to invest, plus we were just traveling around. I didn't really want to hang my hat just on medium term rentals just in Fort Wayne,

Starting point is 00:14:03 Indiana. And I started looking around towards other markets. I really like Cincinnati. I really like Cleveland, more Midwest markets that I could drive to if I needed to. but whenever I started thinking about expanding and, you know, going into other markets, the margins for medium-term rentals are good, but they started to get a little bit skinnier because there were more people getting into the game. And I started thinking, okay, if I have all of this extra free time and I have location freedom and I can basically do anything that I want to do, why not try and go for

Starting point is 00:14:34 something that has a much bigger lever to it, if you will? And so the idea of developing something and then turning it into a short-term rental was kind of the main idea behind that. All right. Great. So you turn to development, which just for everyone listening, is a great way to make money, but it is a risky strategy development. There's a lot of different elements to it. There's time risk.

Starting point is 00:14:57 There's labor risk. There's regulatory risk. There's pretty much everything. But the upside's massive. So first of all, you seem like you're a pretty risk-tolerant person. And I'm curious, like, how you thought about taking on this risk in the context. of your entire portfolio. Like you had this stable element of midterm rentals. Were you able to live off that income in case, you know, development didn't go well for you in the future?

Starting point is 00:15:21 Cash flow wise. I was making about $6,000 a month-ish from my portfolio from the medium-term rentals. And so that money was just being set aside. And then I had my W-2, which thankfully is a nice six-figure salary as well, working remotely. So I knew that I would be okay. But I also, I didn't have the cash to be able to do the project myself. And I knew I would need to raise money to be able to do it. And that was really the scary part for me. It was taking on somebody else's cash to try and do a project. You know, that would be the first time that I had ever done that. And so I did a lot of research and a lot of reading in regards to that. Matt Faircloss book was like my Bible for a while. The Raising Private Capital book was absolutely phenomenal. I have that

Starting point is 00:16:03 highlighted and dog-eared and noted to no end. And so that's where I'm. learned about the self-directed IRA option for raising private capital. So just a quick recap for people, if somebody has an old 401K and they're not contributing to that 401k any longer, they can take those funds via a custodian company and they can transfer those funds from the 401k into a self-directed IRA. And then they can lend that money out as a private money lender. And so I started reaching out to people and shockingly, it was way easier than I anticipated. I think it was 45 days. I had a goal of raising 300,000 for my build.

Starting point is 00:16:43 And I raised 330,000 in 45 days. Wow. And so it was all from 401Ks. I used a company called Equity Trust that I had learned from another investor friend of mine that had used them before. So that made me, you know, trust that process. And it was very easy, very seamless. So whenever I went through this process, I was talking with my attorney to make sure that I was protected, make sure that my investors were protected because these were all.

Starting point is 00:17:08 people from my immediate network, people that I knew. And so I wanted to make sure I was doing the best I could to protect their money. And so he wrote up a promissory note for me and my investors. And the way that I structured my deal between myself and my private money lenders, I gave them two options. Both of them, both options were on a 24 month note because that just wanted to give myself a little bit of wiggle room for how long I anticipated the development to take out here in Sedona, then they could either do 12% interest with all of the interest paid on the back end, or they could do 10% interest with interest payments paid out monthly to that 24 months. So they either get all of their interest and their principal at the end of 24 months,

Starting point is 00:17:53 or they get interest over that 24 months, and then they get all of their principal back at the end of that 24 months. If you want to learn any more about self-directed IRAs, that company Equity Trust is actually one of BiggerPockets partners, and we have a bunch of their free courses on our website. I'll put a link in the show description, but you can also find it at biggerpockets.com slash blog slash free dash courses. Let's take a step back because I think the structure here is super important, and I want to talk about how you raise this money and given what you just said, which options like an LP or an investor in this deal would take. But let's hear about the deal a little bit. So you mentioned

Starting point is 00:18:34 Sedona, that's far away from Indiana. How do you choose Sedona, especially you're switching strategies and your switching markets, which is something I'm always a little wary of, to be honest. Like, I think you do one. Doing two at one time is risky. So like, why'd you pick taking sort of two swings at one time? So really, the main thing was networking. I got into a few different networking events with a lot of short-term rental people. And I knew that I wanted to get into the short-term rental space because I kind of kept picturing myself. you know, working with with two arms. One arm is the stable base of medium-term rentals and then probably even some long-term rentals in Fort Wayne, Indiana. It's a very calm, easy, stable market and not

Starting point is 00:19:16 much stress that comes in with that. And then in the other hand, then, since I had the stability, I felt comfortable taking the big swing for the big cash flow of short-term rentals and the big equity gains of a development. And whenever we were looking at different markets, I had mentioned the Shenandoah Valley. We had friends that were actively investing in the Shannon Valley, somebody that actually did a ground-up development out there. So we knew that we could lean on their network of people if we needed to. And then also, we had friends that were investing in Sedona. And nobody that had done a ground-up development in Sedona, but we had people that had investments out here. And whenever we were looking at the markets, it was in like November.

Starting point is 00:19:52 And we looked at the weather in Shenandoah Valley and it was like snowing and blowing and like negative 10 degrees or something. Like, well, that's not very good for development. So then we just kind of deduced it down to Sedona and used chat GBT. I was kind of playing around with that to see what some of the stats were for Sedona. And per Sedona's Chamber of Commerce, I think for 2024, tourism was a billion dollar industry in Sedona with over three million visitors coming per year. And so their entire economy stands on tourism.

Starting point is 00:20:23 Like that's the only thing that keeps the town running. All right, David, thanks for explaining the market. I want to ask you a little bit more details about how you made some of the decisions you just mentioned. but first we have to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Thinking about wholesaling or flipping your first property, but not sure where to start.

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Starting point is 00:20:55 and vacant homes to find motivated sellers fast. And now PropStream has integrated batch leads and batch dialer to provide you with a complete all-in-one solution. That means you can not only find motivated sellers, but you can also reach out right away. Skip trace phone numbers free on select plans, then send postcards, emails, or call sellers directly. Don't worry if you're new. PropStream also gives you AI-powered insights and comms that are over 99% accurate.

Starting point is 00:21:19 So you know you're making smart offers. Plus, you'll have access to PropStream Academy to guide you step by step. Start your seven-day free trial and get 50 free leads at Propstream.com slash BP. That's P-R-O-P-S-T-R-E-A-M. Don't just dream about real estate. Make it happen with PropStream. What if your CRM actually did the hard work for you? I know, crazy.

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Starting point is 00:22:07 slash bigger pockets. That's R-E-S-I-M-P-L-I-D-C-L-I-D-C-Bigger Pockets. Did you know your house gets bored when you leave? I can't actually prove that, but it probably misses out on the action, the footsteps, the late-night fridge raids. Yeah, when you're gone, your place is basically on unpaid leave. It's sitting there. in the dark thinking, I could be contributing right now.

Starting point is 00:22:32 Your side room wants a side hustle. Even your Wi-Fi is like, we could be networking. You're on vacation, spending money like it's a sport, while your staircase at home is fully capable of sending your income upwards. Here's the twist. You can go on a trip and actually earn money. Airbnb makes that possible with the co-host network. If you're away for a while or have a secondary property,

Starting point is 00:22:56 you can hire a vetted local co-host with real hosting experience to handle it all. A co-host can handle guest communications. It can manage reservations and keep things running smoothly so you don't have to check your phone between beach days. That means less stress and more time enjoying your trip. You can relax, knowing guests are taking care of, and your place is in good hands.

Starting point is 00:23:17 You travel, your house works. Everyone wins. If you're ready to host but could use some help, find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. For decades, real estate has been a cornerstone of the world's largest portfolios. But it's also historically been sort of complex, time-consuming, and expensive.

Starting point is 00:23:34 But imagine if real estate investing was suddenly easy, all the benefits of owning real, tangible assets without the complexity and expense. That's the power of the Fundrise flagship fund. Now, you can invest in a $1.1 billion portfolio of real estate, starting with as little as $10.

Starting point is 00:23:51 The portfolio features 4,700 single-family rental homes spread across the booming sunbelt. They also have 3.3 million square feet of highly sought after industrial facilities, thanks to the e-commerce wave. The flagship fund is one of the largest of its kind. It's well diversified, and it's managed by a team of professionals. And it's now available to you. Visit fundrise.com slash BP Market to explore the fund's full portfolio, check out historical returns, and start investing in just minutes. Carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses of the Fundrise Flagship fund before investing.

Starting point is 00:24:21 This and other information can be found in the fund's prospectus at fundrise.com slash flagship. This is a paid advertisement. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. That means you can stop struggling to get your job notice on other job sites.

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Starting point is 00:25:41 David Rosenbach talking about how he's transitioned from midterm rentals to ground up development in an entirely new market. Before the break, David mentioned that he did all this research and he's building this custom built, purpose built home for short term rentals. But David, you mentioned six bed, seven bath. Like, why did you pay? pick that particular layout. How did you figure out what would maximize your return on this project? I worked with a gentleman named John Bianchi. He's the AirDNA Data guy on Instagram. And so he's incredible. He's a good friend of mine. And he's one of the smartest guys that I know whenever it comes to researching markets. And so I reached out to him. And his analysis of the market after he

Starting point is 00:26:23 got done with it was basically the more bedrooms, more bathrooms you can get equals more cash flow. And he said that there's a lot, a lot of four bedroom homes in the market. There's a lot less five bedrooms homes in the market. But there's very few six plus bedroom homes. So he said if you can hit that six bedroom threshold, he said you're going to be above and beyond everybody else in the market. And then with it being a brand new build and being able to tailor it to people that are traveling by putting an onsuit bathroom in every single bedroom, it just makes it to

Starting point is 00:26:55 where it's going to be a really nice experience for everybody that's coming through. I think this is a great, great lesson for anyone, whether you're doing development or flipping or buying a rental property or whatever. This type of analysis into what supply is available on the market, like what products are people offering, and where is the demand? And when you can find that mismatch, like that's sort of the golden spot. I only own one short-term rental, but I did a very similar analysis to see that four-bedroom plus in the market I'm in. you know, they were getting huge occupancy rates, huge ADRs, and there was just so many three bedrooms. And I just started only looking for four bedrooms. Sounds like you took that to an even another level, which is awesome, and are building something. But it doesn't matter what strategy

Starting point is 00:27:41 you're approaching. Finding an unmet need in the market that you're investing in is just like such an important element of trying to maximize your return. So it sounds like you did that super well. So can you give us a little bit of the timeline? Because you mentioned that you raised money. You found a market. What was the order of operations? Do you start with the property and a plan and then raise money? Or give us sort of a overview of your business model? So my thought process was I didn't want to find the perfect piece of land and then scramble to find the money. But I knew that if I raised the money and I talked to my investors and I told him I don't have anything under contract yet, but this is what I'm specifically looking for. This is specifically what I want to build. And they were willing to fund the

Starting point is 00:28:27 capital to me. And once the money hit my account, that started the 24 month time clock. And so then it naturally kicked my butt into gear. And I had to find a piece of land. I had to get this project going because interest was accruing every month while I was doing that. And so that might be a little bit of a risky strategy for some people out there. But for me, it was the fire that I needed to actually get the project rolling and make it move more quickly. And so I came out here to Sedona. That was actually another big thing. Like every investor that I raised money from, they're like, how are you going to do this from Indiana? And I said, I'm not. I'm going to move to Sedona. So my wife and I, we are currently living here in Sedona, Arizona, and so that we can lay eyes on the project every single

Starting point is 00:29:08 day. We were able to look at every single lot that we were potentially buying. Walk it, I can walk into the city office building and talk to the building directors. I can do whatever I need to do. And I just wanted to make sure that I was putting my money where my mouth was if my investors were going to be putting up their money. Makes a lot of sense. I do invest passively, so I just have a couple questions about this. So you're saying you went to investors and said, I want money to buy something. Did they have to write you a check or did they basically say that they would write you a check when things closed? So this is a debt model as to an equity model for a partnership. So they gave me the money. So I have the debt towards them and it's accruing the interest.

Starting point is 00:29:48 then once this project is done, we plan on doing a cash out refinance into a 75% DSCR loan. And we should have more than enough equity to be able to do that cash out refinance, pay my investors off. And then I own the property 100% free and clear. Got it. Okay. I mean, for your perspective, that makes a lot of sense, doing a debt deal, especially if you're raising money from people who aren't real estate investors.

Starting point is 00:30:11 Yes. They're probably not going to be very value add to you in the course of developing this property. and even if they are, too many cooks in the kitchen kind of situation can always arise with this. So that makes sense. I was very surprised. I had just assumed me being a real estate person. I thought everybody would want equity. I thought every single person was going to want equity in the deal.

Starting point is 00:30:30 And then I was talking with Janice Stitzer. I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with her, but she was like, David, why are you trying to give your equity away? I was like, well, I'm not trying to, but, you know, I just figured that's what everybody wanted. She was like, no, she's like, there's plenty of people out there. they don't want to get into the messiness of a partnership and owning real estate and they're a limited partner. They have to worry about it with taxes. They have to think about all these things by being an equity partner. She's like, there are so many people out there that would be more than happy to know that the money that I'm putting into this, this person is guaranteeing that they're

Starting point is 00:31:02 going to give me 12% month after month for 24 months and I get my money back plus interest and they don't have to think about it. It's a very stable, easy investment. Yeah. And did you do a personal guarantee on the debt? I did. It was helpful that I had my portfolio in Fort Wayne of properties. So there was some collateral if there were to a default on the loan. But my lawyer and I, we were discussing and I said, you know, what happens if we hit that 24 month timeframe? And there is some sort of, you know, trip ups that happen along the way with this development. And it goes past that 24 month timeframe. And he said, well, let's talk with the investors and let's see if they're willing to put this clause into the contract. And I was very upfront, told them all

Starting point is 00:31:42 about it. They were all okay with it. What we do is if we hit that 24 month mark, if I'm not able to give the full amount back to them, then any outstanding balance principle plus interest now starts accruing at 15% interest. So it sweetens the deal for them a little bit to where they're like, okay, if David's not able to deliver in 24 months, I'm just going to start accruing even more interest on my money that's coming. Okay, got it. Yeah, I'm asking these questions for everyone listening because I think as an investor, if someone who wants to raise money, it's really important to not just think about your own objectives, but put yourself in the position of the person who's lending you money or who's going to be your equity partner and understand what they're

Starting point is 00:32:23 thinking and what they're trying to get out of it. And it seems David, like you did a really good job creating sort of a win-win situation. David gets to keep all of his equity. He gets autonomy over the project. That's great. His investors are essentially just giving him a loan that he David has personally guaranteed. So if the project doesn't go well, then, you know, David, hopefully this doesn't happen, but your investors would have recourse to go after your other assets, right? So they could go after your portfolio. And so it does sound great for David, but just know that David put a personal guarantee on that. So if things don't go well, there will be repercussions. You can't just sort of like walk away from this deal. I'm like, oh, that one didn't work.

Starting point is 00:33:04 I don't know if your investors would have signed a deal without a personal guarantee, but like that's sort of just why I was asking. So congratulations on getting this started. So where are you at now? Just tell us a little bit about current status of the project and what's going to come over the next few months. Yeah. So currently it's a pile of dirt, but we are working on getting our building permits submitted

Starting point is 00:33:27 here shortly. And then we're estimating it may take about a month for building permits to go through. and then once the permits are through, then we'll start construction. So sometime late summer, early fall, we're hoping to be completed with the project. And how do you find this builder? Because I imagine that's sort of one of the main things as a developer to find somebody you trust. I vetted, I think, five different contractors.

Starting point is 00:33:49 I settled on my current one. And then after I got my current contractor, I asked him for basically everybody that he's built anything for in the last 24 months. And I got the numbers of seven different people that he had built for in the last last 24 months. I called each one of them, talked to them very candidly. I was like, please, I'm putting a lot of money in this. I'm putting other people's money at risk. Please tell me truthfully, is there anything I need to be worried about? And nobody gave me any red flags that pointed towards that I shouldn't go forward with my current contractor. So I made sure that I put as many

Starting point is 00:34:21 assurances in my pocket as I possibly could because that definitely is still the thing in the back of my head that has me a little, like, you know, you never know. You never know how it's going to be until you actually dig into the project and start going. And then just so happened, this is another testament to why it was so important for us to be here on the ground in Sedona. Just naturally started meeting people here in the community. Met a guy that's around my age that owns his own construction company here in Sedona. Got to be buddies with him, bought him a few beers at the bar. And I was like, hey, man, if my contractor, if he all of a sudden just falls apart or something happens or, you know, UFO's taken, whatever,

Starting point is 00:34:55 are you able to help finish this project? And he said, absolutely. He said, I'll get it done for you. if he's not able to finish it. So just putting those assurances in place, having backups on backups, fail safes, making sure that you are thinking ahead of anything

Starting point is 00:35:09 that could possibly go wrong. I love it, man. I think that that's just a very good perspective to have. And as someone who does a lot of passive investing, like these are the kinds of things that I would be looking for to see an operator do, his really thorough due diligence. And putting in,

Starting point is 00:35:26 you know, those redundancies in place. You know, things happen. Like you said, you know, things happen. Even if well-intentioned people sometimes can't finish projects. Like, it's just nature of the business. And so thinking that one step ahead is such a great, great perspective to have.

Starting point is 00:35:42 David, before we get out of here, give us the reveal. What's this deal going to do? What's the all in costs you're going to have? What's the ARV? What's your expected return on this deal? Yeah. So playing with our numbers as of right now with my contractor from the contract that we have signed, our completed project.

Starting point is 00:35:59 should be in the neighborhood turnkey ready to rent out to people should be all in at about 1.1 with the cost of the construction, the cost of the land. And things around us are selling for anywhere between like $500 to $700 a square foot. And so that would put our finished product at about $2 million to $2.5 million valuation. Amazing. That's awesome. Let's see. What do you think, Dave?

Starting point is 00:36:21 If I had a million dollars in equity in this property, when do you decide sell it and just be done, take the cash and move it into the next project, or do you do a cash out refy, pull a little bit of that cash out for the next project and keep it as an STR? Just for everyone following this. What David's saying is he's, let's just use round numbers. Let's just say he's in for a million and he could sell it for $2 million, right? He's got a million dollars of equity here. If I'm getting you right, David, the question is, do you just sell it and take a million dollars,

Starting point is 00:36:48 which is super appealing? Or you do a cash out refi. Probably need to keep 25% equity in that deal, right? So you're keeping 500 grand in the deal. You're still walking with 500, which is awesome. Which one do you do? Do you do the refi or the full sale? So I guess, you know, I would be curious, two questions.

Starting point is 00:37:07 One, what's the return on equity going to be on that 500 grand? And if you haven't earned that term, it's very similar to cash on cash return. But basically calculate how much equity you have in the deal, calculate how much cash flow you're generating, divide the cash flow by the equity. That's your return on equity. And then the other question, is could you just do this again? Like if you took out the million dollars, could you just do this again and have another big hitter? Like so those are the two questions I'd pose to you. Yeah. So

Starting point is 00:37:35 that's the plan. And I, I've asked a lot of people this same question and everybody's like, you can't sell that thing. You know, you can't sell. You got to hold on to it. Because to further dig into our numbers a little bit, we should be cash flowing somewhere in the neighborhood of like $6,000 to $7,000 a month in free and clear cash flow. Okay. And so that's, that's still a lot of money coming in and that's even accounting for having somebody run the property for us. And so with me being able to hand it off and still be making a really good amount of cash flow, I think that the no-brainer for me as of right now is to do the cash-out refi, take the cash and pay off my investors, plus put probably $300,000 in my pocket. That's tax-free because if I sold it, I'd have

Starting point is 00:38:15 short-term capital gains. And then wait 12 months. And then if I decide to sell it, I get out of those short-term capital gains into long-term capital gains or just hang on to it. it and then take that same investor cash, pay them back with their interest, and then ask them if they want to go or another round and see what they think. Yeah, yeah. I think it's a no-brainer here. Just to close the loop on the return on equity, if you were getting sort of the high side of that at $7,000 a month in cash flow, that's $84,000 a year.

Starting point is 00:38:42 If you have $500,000 in equity in that, that's a 17% return on equity, which is fantastic. I mean, if you're getting double digits at all, you're probably going to be pretty happy in today's day and age. 17% is great. So I just think if you want to generate cash flow for yourself, you're not going to find anything better than that. And with 500 grand, you could probably put a down payment on another property and sort of have enough working capital to do this again, which seems like a win-win. Hold on to your asset, still have the flexibility to do it again. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of what I keep thinking. But, you know, the seven-figure payout still keeps dangling in the back of my head, but I need to shove it away. Yeah, I know. It does sound cool, but you know, got to think long term. Yeah. All right, David, well, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate you being here. I appreciate you guys having me back on. It was a lot of fun the first time on the rookie and just as fun on here.

Starting point is 00:39:33 And so if anybody has any questions about developments or anything, feel free to reach out. Thanks again, David. And just a reminder, we are always looking for more investors just like David to come on and share their stories as guests on the Bigger Pockets podcast. So if you're investing and you want to share your story, please apply at biggerpockets.com slash guests. And make sure to give us as much detail as possible in the application about what your story is, what you're working on today. That really helps us sort through the guest applications that we got. Thanks again for listening to this episode.

Starting point is 00:40:07 We'll see you again for another episode soon on the Bigger Pockets podcast. Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube. Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform, our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K, copywriting is by Calicoe content, and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.w.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions

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BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - ‘Building’ 7-Figure Wealth with ONE Very Lucrative Rental Property

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