BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - Financial Freedom with Just 4 Rentals? Why Small Portfolios Win

Starting point is 00:00:00 It only took four investment properties to change this investor's entire life. She was sick of the corporate grind and looking for a more fulfilling lifestyle when she accidentally discovered real estate investing. Now, she's implemented strategies to maximize her monthly cash flow. She's created systems to automate the parts of investing she just doesn't enjoy and is passionate about providing badly needed services for people in her community. Hey, everyone, I'm Dave Meyer, head of real estate investing at Bigger Pockets, where we teach you how to achieve financial freedom through real estate investing. Today's guest on the show is Antoinette Monroe, an investor operating in Florida and Georgia.

Starting point is 00:00:44 You may have heard her on the pod a couple of years ago back on episode 710, and we're bringing Antoinette back because she's a great example of how you don't need some massive portfolio to change your entire life. Like I said at the beginning, she only owns four properties, and she aspires to stay small and mighty instead of growing to dozens or even hundreds of units. Antoinette and I are going to talk about how she first dove into real estate after learning that there is another path besides working that traditional career for 40 years. The strategy she's using today to create multiple cash flow streams from each new property she buys and why her next investing strategy is based all around the places she likes to vacation. Let's bring on Antoinette. Antoinette, welcome back to the Bigger Pockets podcast. Thanks for joining us again. Thank you very much for inviting me back, Dave.

Starting point is 00:01:35 Happy to be here. I want to start at the beginning here. Tell me a little bit about where you were in your life when you started thinking about investing in real estate for the first time. Well, I wasn't thinking about it. This happened unintentionally. I was at a wedding being introduced to the wedding guest by one of my neighbors as a budding real estate investor. And then I remember looking over to my boyfriend being like, I think I got to become a real estate investor. Let's figure out what that is.

Starting point is 00:02:01 Why would they introduce you that way? Well, I had bought a house in the neighborhood. And I walked around and knocked on my neighbor's doors to get to know them. And I used some contractors that was referred to me by one particular neighbor. He was a real estate investor. And when I finished the house and then put it on Airbnb and was just kind of checking in with him and telling him and things that I was doing, he was like, oh boy, your real estate portfolio is starting. I think you're going to be a great investor. And I was like, okay. I guess if the shoe fits, right? Yeah, it's like you're already doing the work

Starting point is 00:02:34 of an investor. You just didn't call yourself that at that point. I had no idea. So I had to reverse engineer that project to understand what being a real estate investor meant and what I had done. So yeah, it was definitely unintentional. But you bought this house to put it on Airbnb. That was the original point of it. Well, I bought it. I was personally. doing like five. The financial independence retire early. I bought this house so that I could pay it down quickly and not have a mortgage and then I could leave my job and find something else to do. So I was working a retirement plan, but it just so happened that after completing the project, I'd found out about Airbnb and decided to use two of the bedrooms for that. Okay, got it. Very cool.

Starting point is 00:03:15 And where in the world was this? In Orlando, Florida. And were you working full time or like what else were you doing at this time? Yeah, I was in the good old corporate grind, working my way up, managing the Southeast region for a large beverage company. So you may have seen me in, you know, many CVSs and Walgreens selling my wares, trying to get extra shelf space. Nice. And so was that just not fulfilling to you or were you not enjoying it? It wasn't. It never was the plan. Like coming out of college, I just wanted to make sure I had a job. And I graduated in 2008. So that was like at the height of the market crash. People's offers were getting rescinded. So I just, I wanted a job. So I took the highest offer I could get with a plan to like, I'm going to work, save up, pay off my student loans,

Starting point is 00:04:03 and be out of here within two years because this is not what I want. And then I look up eight years later and I was still there having successfully forgotten about all my dreams, wearing the golden handcuffs proudly. So I was, this project was the like rebirth of who I knew I was, but have forgotten going to work every day. That's awesome. Wow, good for you. And this is a pretty common story, right? Where people just think that they're going to go into a job for a couple years and then fast forward, you're just in a totally different part of your life. What sort of snapped you out of that and got you started thinking about a different alternative path or trying to do the financial independence retire early? If you Google, I hate my job enough, lots of interesting

Starting point is 00:04:48 things come up. And that's really what it was. So, you know, lots of late nights where I'm like, I hate my job or what to do if you don't think, how to find your purpose. So those late night searches eventually led me to fire and started down that path. So really, the very first few years of that job was just fire, saving, making smart money management investment so I could have the freedom to choose a job that I enjoyed and not have to choose employment for money. So how did that first deal that you inadvertently became a real estate investor on? How did that one work out?

Starting point is 00:05:25 It was great, actually, and it changed my entire life. It was a long crazy process. So it took nine months to find that first property. We got it under contract. And the day before the first closing, the seller died. So then we spent about five months going through probate. It took that long because the first probate was filed in the wrong county. So then they had to refile it in the proper county. So finally, from a contract in April, we closed in November. Wow. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I've never heard anything like that before. I have several questions.

Starting point is 00:05:58 So first of all, you said it took you nine months to find. I think that's, you know, this is a common challenge that people have, especially when they're trying to find their first deal, and especially in today's day and age when it is hard to find deals. So, you know, what was the process you were going through and how did you stay disciplined and focus through a long search for your first deal. It was the standard process. And at the time, I'm just a regular person, right? I'm looking for a home to live in, in an area that I want to be in. So I was being picky. But I also needed it to be like rehabable because I knew I didn't want to

Starting point is 00:06:33 spend too much. And I wanted to make it my own. So it took that long because I needed the right thing in the right area. I didn't know that I was doing, you know, real estate investor type situation. It just took that long to find something. I didn't want to pay over $200,000, right? And I needed to be able to fix it up. And it needed to be in a one-mile radius of, like, the best neighborhood in Orlando. So that's what took the longest. And then I need to ask about this probate process.

Starting point is 00:07:02 And if anyone doesn't know, I'm not a lawyer, but probate is basically when someone dies, their will goes through a legal process called probate, where all of their assets are accounted for and divvied up appropriately. But it sounds like you had a contract with someone who passed away. And so because they passed away, you had to wait for this entire probate process to go through. It sounds like twice through two different counties. And in the midst of that, you know, there were rate locks. So every time the rate was extending, I was getting charged additional for the rate lock. So the cost was going up.

Starting point is 00:07:37 And then I lost insurance twice, right? Because it kept not closing. And so my insurance guy was like, well, I'm out on this deal. So I had to, in the end, change lenders by the time we actually closed so that I could get rid of all those fees from the initial rate locks and find new insurance. And did they hold your earnest money that whole time as well? They did. They did. But it wasn't much.

Starting point is 00:08:00 I think it was just like $1,000. But I had canceled my lease because I thought I was moving in in June. So now I'm slightly homeless and, you know, sharing a twin buck bit with my boyfriend at his mom's house because. So it's one of those deals where it tested you in every way in terms of cost, in terms of flexibility, ability to stick it out, even when everyone's telling me, hey, walk away from this one. It's not a good one. But it made all the right sense for like my purposes and my needs. So I also think that going through that you gain a level of patience that you're going to need as you continue to do deals and as everything goes wrong and surprises you each day. So after that experience, there was nothing else that was going to come up in a project that was going to take me out. Like, if I stuck through that, I'd be able to weather the ups and downs of just typical things that happen in real estate investing. That's such a good attitude because that's just how it works, right? Every deal has some challenges.

Starting point is 00:09:01 I don't know about you. I've rarely maybe one deal that's ever gone like exactly how I was expecting. And getting that over with your first time is honestly really helpful. And that's sort of what you've got to do. because most people when they buy their first deal, they're not coming from a place where they have a ton of money or a ton of experience. And so you got to substitute that money and experience with a little bit of hustle and a little bit of patience and a little bit of just willing to do whatever it takes. Like, share a bunk bed with your boyfriend in his mom's house. Like that's just, I mean, my first deal, I lived in my friend's grandma's basement for a few years when I was instead of paying rent.

Starting point is 00:09:40 And, you know, that's just sort of how it goes when you're trying to get started. unless you've made a little more progress in your life and maybe you have some financial means to to buy a really good quality deal right off the bat. Yeah, you have to work with what you got. Like even for that project, we did all the work ourselves. So I hung drywall. I pulled up floorboards. I knocked down walls because there was no budget to hire someone to do those things. But in doing it, you learn why you pay someone to do it. And now I have no problem paying somebody to do that because It's tough. Yeah, those are like a wanted done kind of experience.

Starting point is 00:10:18 You do it because you have to and then realize this is probably not for everyone. Let the experts do it. Well, it sounds like the first deal worked out really well. I want to hear more about how you scale your portfolio from there. But we do have to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Hey, so they say that real estate investing is passive, but let's get real. Chasing rents, drowning in receipts, and getting buried in spreadsheets feels anything but passive.

Starting point is 00:10:43 If you're tired of losing, valuable hours on financial busy work, I've found a solution that will transform your business. It's Baselane, a trusted Bigger Pockets Pro partner. Baselaine is an all-in-one platform that can help you automate the day-to-day. It automates your rent collection and uses AI-powered bookkeeping to auto-tag transactions for instant cash flow visibility and reporting. Plus, they have tons of other features like recurring payments, multi-user access, and free wires to save you more time and money. Spend less time managing your money and more time

Starting point is 00:11:19 growing your portfolio. Ready to automate the busy work and get back to investing, Baselane is giving bigger pockets listeners an exclusive $100 bonus when you sign up at baselane.com slash BP. What if I told you you could forget everything you know about investment property loans? Because Host Financial is rewriting the rulebook, tossing out those pesky DTI restrictions. They focus on your property's income potential. No tax returns or personal income statements needed. Simple, efficient, and tailored for investors like you.

Starting point is 00:11:51 Imagine a lender that sees the gold mine in your property, not just the numbers on your paycheck. That's the host financial difference. And they're approved in 47 different states, so your next big deal could be just around the corner. Ready to unlock your property's true potential? Visit hostfinancial.com. Don't let old school lending hold you back another day. That's hostfinancial.com. For decades, real estate has been a cornerstone.

Starting point is 00:12:13 of the world's largest portfolios. But it's also historically been sort of complex, time-consuming, and expensive. But imagine if real estate investing was suddenly easy, all the benefits of owning real, tangible assets without the complexity and expense. That's the power of the Funrise flagship fund.

Starting point is 00:12:30 Now, you can invest in a $1.1 billion portfolio of real estate, starting with as little as $10. The portfolio features 4,700 single-family rental homes spread across the booming sunbelt. They also have 3.3 million square feet of highly sought after industrial facilities, thanks to the e-commerce wave. The flagship fund is one of the largest of its kind. It's well diversified, and it's managed by a team of professionals.

Starting point is 00:12:54 And it's now available to you. Visit fundrise.com slash BP Market to explore the fund's full portfolio, check out historical returns, and start investing in just minutes. Carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses of the Fundrise Flagship fund before investing. This and other information can be found in the fund's prospectus at fundrise.com slash flagship. This is a paid advertisement. A lot of property managers think their job is answering tenant emails and coordinating repairs. That's not the job. The job of a property manager is protecting and growing your operating income and earning your trust while they do it. And that comes down to three numbers, occupancy,

Starting point is 00:13:30 delinquency, and net promoter score. If those numbers slip, your income slips and your trust slips too. And most PMs don't hold themselves to performance standards. They focus on activity, not outcomes. Mind is different. They obsess over the metrics that actually grow your cash flow. Go to mind.com slash show me to see how mind performs and get a month of management for free. Because if you're going to hire a property manager, hire one that manages your investment, like an investment. Do you ever notice how every passive investment somehow turns into a very active lifestyle, active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress? Here's a better question. What if you could buy brand new construction homes, 10% below market value, in the best markets

Starting point is 00:14:15 across the country, without making real estate your second job? That's exactly what rent-to-retirement does. They're a full-service, turnkey investment company handling everything for you. In some cases, investors get 50 to 75% of our down payment back at closing, plus interest rates as low as 3.75%. They've partnered with Bigger Pockets for over a decade, helping thousands invest smarter. If you want to do the same, visit biggerpockets.com slash retirement to learn more. Welcome back to the Bigger Pockets podcast.

Starting point is 00:14:48 I'm here with Antoinette Monroe talking about how she hustled her way into her first deal in Orlando. Antoinette, tell us what happened from there. Did you catch the bug immediately? Did you really like how that first deal played out for you? Yes, I did. One, the rehab was gorgeous because, you know, I did it. But also, Airbnb was like, you know, lighter fluid on a fire. I had no idea.

Starting point is 00:15:15 At first I was like, maybe I'll get roommates. But using Airbnb instantly in the first month, my mortgage was completely covered. And now I was living for free. So I spent that entire first year kind of digging through all of the bigger pockets forums, listening to all the podcasts to understand, okay, what do you do next when you've done this? I learned about house hacking. I realized that that's what I was doing. but then also the birth strategy.

Starting point is 00:15:40 And that is how I got my second deal. So in 2019, I purchased an off-market deal from my neighbor in the neighborhood I grew up in. So I had a direct connect to the seller. And that deal, I was able to get under contract for under $200,000. It only needed about 30 or 40 worth of work. And through some tips that I got off the Bigger's Pockets Forum, I was able to refinance that house and get all of my cash back within 45 days of closing. Wow.

Starting point is 00:16:09 Amazing. I'd love to dig into that because I think this is one of these deals that people listening are going to be like, I want one of those. Do me that. So tell me a little bit how the off market deal comes up because we always hear about off market deals. They're great. And it kind of is just this magical thing. And I think how did this one come about? Did your neighbor know you were buying houses or tell us about it?

Starting point is 00:16:33 Well, no, because at the time I wasn't. I just had the one house. But my mom knew that I was learning to be a real estate investor and I wanted to do that. So talking to her one day, she mentioned, hey, the neighbor across the street, she's planning to move to Georgia to be with her kids because she's getting older. And I was like, ah, I know what this is. I heard that podcast. This is a wholesale deal.

Starting point is 00:16:52 So I was like getting her number. I'm going to call her. And so I called her, found out what she was interested in doing. I went through all of the steps of the things that I learned about from a wholesale deal. I was not a good negotiator. So I was just like, you know, what is it that you want for it? I'll agree to that because the numbers worked out. Yeah, which is kind of a win-win situation, right?

Starting point is 00:17:14 Yeah. And so she still talked to a couple different wholesalers. And I explained to her, it's like, you know, they're going to give you offers. Then they're going to come and look at it. And then they're going to whittle that offer down based on the expenses that they have. So they'll do whatever to get you under contract. But ultimately, I think I was able to get that deal because of the personal relationship. And she was getting the price that she wanted.

Starting point is 00:17:34 that was enough for her. So it's one of those, you know, sometimes the right place, right time. You know, you never know when that deal will come. But if you're putting out what you're interested in or what you're looking for, then people usually try to help. So I told my mom, I want to be a real estate investor. I want to buy more properties. So anytime, now her ears are open when she hears about opportunities, she's going to think of me and give me a call. Well, I love that. Good for you. That's an amazing story about sort of this combination of like serendipity and circumstance, but also being prepared for it. Yes. If I hadn't been listening to the podcast, if I hadn't been doing the research and understanding, that opportunity would have came and I wouldn't have known what to do with it or how to actually make it work.

Starting point is 00:18:15 Yeah. Your mom would have said, hey, our neighbor's moving. You've been like, oh, cool. I hope they enjoy Georgia. You know, like you wouldn't have been thinking about how could you potentially create a mutually beneficial situation for yourself and for this person. So you, it was a single family home, I assume, and your plan was to turn into a rental. Yeah, so it was a single family. I put it under contract before I saw it. I just had like the memories I'd been in here before as a kid, you know, similar to my house. That's kind of fun. But once I closed on it, I came down and saw that they had done in addition to it that made it a much larger single family than I knew. And the layout made it, you know, conducive for a split, which is what I did with the first house. I bought a single family, split it in half and kind of made two units out of it right up to the line of being in trouble with code. Like just. Just telling that line. Yeah. Yeah. So I saw this opportunity in that house as well and I did the same thing. I just dropped a wall through the middle of it, made a one bed, one bath studio in the back with a kitchenette because kitchens mean code issues. And then kept the three one in the front. And I was able to rent both sides out, one to a family member because anytime you're doing something, there's always somebody watching. So immediately one half went to a family member and the other half I used a realtor. to get rented out. Okay, great. You said you bought it for under 200 grand. You have to put like 30 or 40

Starting point is 00:19:38 grand. And how did you finance all of that? So with the first project, I had improved it and then added 700 square feet. So there was a good bit of equity in that home. I learned on the forms that I should pull home equity lines of credit. So I had one existing and ready to go on that first home. So I was able to buy this outright in cash using the equity from the home equity loan. And then I borrowed private money for my brother-in-law to complete the renovation on that second home. So it was a combination of all the things you learned. There was that home equity line of credit. There was borrowing money from my brother-in-law. And then the hack that I use is my strategy to make single families have twice as much cash flow. That's great. Which is splitting them in half.

Starting point is 00:20:22 Well, good for you. I mean, this, again, it's just kind of a story of just like piecing it together. It's not the easiest way to do it if when you're, you know, taking money from here and there. But it's not that hard, right? I mean, it's just like using your network, using your connections. And shout out to the Bigger Pockets forums. It feels like they're giving you some good advice. And everyone, you know, if you need advice about your own deals, you can go to the Bigger Pockets forums for free and ask these types of questions or just see what other people are asking. Great resource out there. So after these first two deals, Antoinette, how did you scale up? At this point, did you figure out that you wanted to sort of have a more full-time career in real estate?

Starting point is 00:21:00 At this point, yes. The first project, it was if I did this well, I'd move in this direction until I could leave my job. So by the second deal, I'm feeling confident. I've done some heavy things, right? I've done a burr and a cash out refinance in 45 days. I've done private money, home equity loan. Okay, cool. Then I went to work for a contractor. 2020 touched us all. I lost my job in 2020, and I was like, okay, I'm interested in real estate. Let me see. Maybe I want to be a contractor. So I took a job with a contractor, and he invited me to my first flip. So I hadn't done one of those before. We partnered 50-50, kept it very simple.

Starting point is 00:21:38 I did one flip with him. And then later in that year, another neighbor, same neighborhood. Actually, the house next door called and say, hey, I saw what you did with Ms. Gladys' house. I have a property that I want to sell. Are you interested? So then there was property number two that's going to remain in my portfolio down in Miami that I was able to purchase and I reached out to that contractor and said, hey, I have no money. So I can't pay a hard money loan. But if we partnered, I'll bring the deal. You bring the money and the construction

Starting point is 00:22:11 and we'll go from there. And so that's how we did that one. I have to ask because I'm trying to follow the timeline, but you had lost your job. So were you still able to get loans? No. That's why I had to partner with that contractor. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I didn't go to a lender and get anything. I couldn't carry it months to month even. So that's why that deal ended up being a partnership for that last flip. Got it. We have to pause for one more ad break, but on the other side, we'll hear what Antoinette is up to now. For decades, real estate has been a cornerstone of the world's largest portfolios. But it's also historically been sort of complex, time consuming, and expensive. But imagine if real estate investing was suddenly easy, all the benefits of owning real,

Starting point is 00:22:55 tangible assets without the complexity and expense. That's the power of the Fundrise Flagship Fund. Now, you can invest in a $1.1 billion portfolio of real estate, starting with as little as $10. The portfolio features 4,700 single-family rental homes spread across the booming sunbelt. They also have 3.3 million square feet of highly sought after industrial facilities, thanks to the e-commerce wave. The flagship fund is one of the largest of its kind. It's well diversified, and it's managed by a team of professionals. And it's now available to you. Visit fundrise.com slash BP Market to explore the fund's full portfolio, check out historical returns, and start investing in just minutes. Carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses

Starting point is 00:23:36 of the Fundrise Flagship Fund before investing. This and other information can be found in the fund's prospectus at Fundrise.com slash flagship. This is a paid advertisement. People love to call real estate passive income, which is interesting because most of the investors I know are very busy. Busy finding deals, busy managing teams, busy worrying things, busy worrying they picked the wrong market. Rent to retirement flips that model. They help investors buy turnkey new construction homes, often 10% below market value in top rental markets across the country. Their local teams handle the build, the property management, and the details, so you don't have to. In some cases, investors even receive 50 to 75% of their down payment

Starting point is 00:24:13 back at closing, and there are interest rates as low as 3.75%. They've been trusted partners with Bigger Pockets for over a decade. And if you want to learn more, visit Bigger Pockets, Managing properties can feel like a full-on circus. You're juggling vendors, tracking payments, chasing approvals across multiple properties, and maybe a few HOAs, all while trying to keep tenants happy and owners confident. One delay can throw everything off and suddenly your day is all clean-up, no progress. That's why hundreds of property managers rely on bill to streamline their finances. Bill for property management lets you add all your properties, assign permission, pay bills, and receive payments quickly and efficiently, without the usual bottlenecks.

Starting point is 00:24:58 It syncs with platforms like QuickBooks, Zero, NetSuite, and Sage intact, so your accounting stays aligned. You can automate bulk payments across properties and HOAs. Choose flexible payment methods like same-day ACH, international wires, card or check, and set custom roles in approval policies. There's even a dedicated bill inbox for each property to keep everything organized. Ready to simplify your workflow, book your free demo at bill.com slash bigger pockets, and get a $100 Amazon gift card. That's bill.com slash bigger pockets. Tax season reminder for all the real estate investors listening. If you own rental properties, short-term rentals, commercial buildings, basically anything that's not your primary residence, you need to know about cost segregation.

Starting point is 00:25:45 It's an IRS compliance strategy that lets you accelerate depreciation on your properties, which means you're paying less in taxes this year and keeping more cash in your pocket for your next deal. Cost segregation guys is the go-to firm, having done over 12,000 of these studies with 500 million in total depreciation identified. Head to costsegregationguise.com slash BP to get a free proposal and see your potential tax savings. Real estate investors, the April 15th tax deadline is coming fast. If you own rental property and haven't done a cost segregation study yet, you could be handing thousands of dollars to the IRS that you don't have to. These studies let you write off as much as 25% of your building and generate huge tax deductions.

Starting point is 00:26:31 Costsegregation.com is an online, self-guided software that makes cost segregation fast and affordable. So it finally makes sense for smaller rental properties purchased for as low as $100,000. With pricing under $500 and an average savings of over $25,000, it's just a no-brainer. More audit support is included by the number one cost segregation company in the U.S., but you must complete it before the tax deadline. Go to costsegregation.com and use code tax deadline to get 10% off your first report. Don't overpay the IRS. Head to costsegregation.com before April 15th. Welcome back to the Bigger Pockets podcast. I'm here with investor Antoinette Monroe talking about how she's scaled up her small but mighty portfolio. You've done so much in four deals. That's more than, I think,

Starting point is 00:27:24 people do, or at least more variety that you get in your sort of types of deals in the first four. So how are you thinking about it at that point? What was your plan of attack after that? At that point, I still was like trying to be a real estate investor, thinking that I wasn't one yet because I hadn't done enough deals and I'm still listening and learning. And every guest that came on with this huge portfolio, I'm like, man, I just, I've done three or four, I'm not working hard enough. And so first I had to like get out of my own head and stop comparing myself to other people's journeys because even though I had done less, there was just

Starting point is 00:28:02 such a wide breadth of the different types of things I had to encounter that I still was knowledgeable, even though I was small and mighty. So I worked with him with the contractor for about five months in total. And through that time, he had introduced me to assisted living or group homes because he was rehabbing them and he and his wife were considering opening one on their own. So I looked at the numbers with that. I was like, hey, yeah, this does way better than Airbnb. I think I'm going to make this switch and pursue that. So at the end of five months, I let him know that I would be leaving two months later.

Starting point is 00:28:40 I purchased a home that I was going to use as Airbnb in the meantime while I went through the licensing process to convert it over to assisted living. So that was the next thing. And again, it's like turbospeed. My fourth deal is now an assisted living facility. So in just four deals, I think I've touched a good percentage of the different types of real estate models or styles that you could go after. You keep going. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:03 Assisted living comes up a lot on the show recently because I think the demographics of it just make a lot of sense, right? Like, there's just a need for it and there's not enough supply. But it seems hard. What was that licensing process like? The licensing process for the end result. is almost too easy, right? Like I just filled out paperwork. And let me clarify, within the states,

Starting point is 00:29:26 there may be a couple different agencies. So people use like Assistant Living as an overarching moniker, but they're different agencies involved with licensing. And these agencies serve different populations. So specifically for me, I serve adults that were born with a development of disability. Okay. And so that's the agency for persons with disabilities in Florida.

Starting point is 00:29:46 Their licensing process, it's free to apply. It's a lot of paperwork. But that's all it is. And you don't have to have like a college degree. You could have a GED or a diploma and still be able to apply. So once you complete the application, the hardest part is finding the application on their website and understanding the additional documents that you have to go through. So for that, I reached out to a consultant and had them help me prepare that application. Wow.

Starting point is 00:30:13 That sounds not that hard. And then what is the operations like, though? That's a different beast. Now, we're beyond real estate investing at this point. It touches it, but the moment you reach that threshold, you have now crossed over, and you're now owning and operating, in our case, a medical facility because we provide 24-hour nursing care. Yeah. So you learn medical terminology.

Starting point is 00:30:34 You learn the tenants of HR because now you have to hire and staff and schedule. You're doing inventory. You're maintaining medical supplies. You're going to doctor's appointment. So it's a whole other world now. Yeah. It just, the path that led me here was real estate. Is it worth it?

Starting point is 00:30:52 Oh, 100%. Yeah. On all fronts, right? Just from the numbers perspective, there is nothing else I was going to do with that property to generate this level of revenue at all, hands down. It doesn't matter how sexy your Airbnb is. You're not beating this. But two, what I'm doing is necessary and purposeful, right?

Starting point is 00:31:13 Like, I know that every effort I make is improving the life of an individual that one can't make those efforts for themselves. And two, based on what you see in the industry, there is not a lot of effort placed for these individuals in terms of the quality of their home or the quality of care. So everything that I do has like this massive impact for the individual, for the families, for the staff involved. So it goes far and beyond like any, oh, okay,

Starting point is 00:31:45 I make six figures or I make this much at this job. and this is my title, this is now like path, aligning with purpose or purpose of path or however you say it is probably the greatest thing I could have ever done that I never knew that I was going to do or ever thought I wanted to do, but I'm here. Good for you. I could just see it on your face. Like you seem so genuinely passionate about this. And it's just another example. I think this story is so inspiring because even before that throughout your career, you've just found win-win situations. And, you know, I think real estate investors sometimes get a bad knock for being greedy or just, you know, you know, people don't like landlords a lot of the time. But like,

Starting point is 00:32:25 you've just demonstrated at each step in your career ways that you are helping other people while also creating a profitable and meaningful business for yourself. So to me, that's like the ultimate, no matter how, what size of portfolio you have, whether it's two properties or 200, like if you can accomplish that, man, you're doing pretty well for yourself. So, congratulations. And you have to make peace with that because, like, you'll want to do what everybody else is doing. You'll want to play like the big boys. You'll want to be able to say, I have 100 plus doors. But ultimately, if what you're doing is not what truly resonates with you, it's not what's coming organically, it's not going to be sustainable. It's not going to be fulfilling. So I'm happy with my little portfolio of just four

Starting point is 00:33:10 properties, right? But each of those properties, it comes with so much more than the earnings there. And the earnings are great, but there's the, and then that also comes with it that you can't, like, put a price on. I love that. And I think, you know, I wrote about this in my book, but I actually think there's, like, almost an inverse relationship for how many properties you own and how happy you are about your own portfolio. Like, the people I know who have huge portfolios, they're all like, they're just grinding all the time and they're miserable about it. Not all of them, but a lot of them. Whereas, like, I don't have a massive portfolio.

Starting point is 00:33:45 I'd say I have a medium-sized portfolio. And, like, I'm, I'm, I'm chilling. I'm fine. I'm pretty happy. I have great relationships with all my tenants. Like, I feel good about all of the properties I own. It sounds like you're in a pretty similar place. And, like, that's so great.

Starting point is 00:34:00 I just think in this real estate investing world, we've sort of created this narrative where, like, financial freedom is like this destination. And I really hope, and it sounds like you agree, like people just enjoy the journey of it as well. And one deal is great. Like one deal will get you is a better financial situation than you were the day before. A second deal will move you a little bit further. The third deal will move you a little bit further. And like each one of those steps is an accomplishment and it's something that you should be proud of and that you should be celebrating. And I just think these are, you're such a perfect example of at least the philosophy that I believe in as a real estate investor. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:34:43 And that philosophy has to come from you, right? Like you can't borrow every gurus you listen to and try to follow their path exactly. You really do have to create your own and be clear and like what it is that you want for you. And it's very much like freedom first for me and a hundred plus unit portfolio. I don't know how free I would be if I had that much responsibility. So yeah, I definitely listen to yourself. Don't knock yourself about what you've done or haven't done yet. Just keep making the next best step.

Starting point is 00:35:11 Absolutely. It's great advice. Great advice. So what's next for you? I mean, you know, we're talking about scaling. Are you done or what are you thinking about next? I think now I'm trying to employ more of a strategy. One that's I have the cash cow, right?

Starting point is 00:35:27 So I'm converting each of the properties I have to these group home or assisted living models. So it takes that one property and makes it perform as if that one property were a portfolio of 50 to 100 units based on the income that we earn from it. So from there, I want to reinvest in like stocks, other things. I may attempt to get some commercial, but my real estate investment moving forward would involve things that could be truly passive, right? Things that can put the money into or buy and have under a management team so that

Starting point is 00:36:00 I'm not doing the day to day. Of course, I'm going to stick to my roots. So I want to get at least five Airbnbs and places I like to visit. So basically, I'm just, you know, I'm doing some lifestyle enhancement. Okay, I want to visit here. Let me get this. But also I'm smart enough to know that it should pay for itself and not me pay for it. So that's it. I'm just continuing to like build the life that I want, but using real estate as the tool to do the building. What you were saying before about sort of finding passive places to reinvest, I think is so important. And it's a topic we do talk about sometimes on a show, but I think is really important for people to think about it. It's just like the structure of your portfolio.

Starting point is 00:36:40 And not every deal has to be the same. It sounds like, you know, doing these group homes is very labor intensive. That sounds like a full-time job. And so you can scale, even if it's a little bit less profitable, finding the type of deals. that work for not just your financial goals, but your lifestyle goals. Because it sounds like scaling up group homes to 30 or 40 units, that's, you know, you're running a medium big business at that point. And maybe that's not what you want.

Starting point is 00:37:08 But having five or 10 of these and then passive real estate can create perhaps the right combination of investments for you. Like I own a bunch of small duplex of single family homes. And then I invest in syndications because it's completely passive. and I don't want to do major rehabs, but I know people who are good at that, and so I'll invest with them. And it's about sort of creating the right balance for yourself. And as Antoinette said, not chasing what other people are doing, but just figuring out, what are you capable of timewise? What do you want financially?

Starting point is 00:37:40 And then sort of reverse engineering what types of properties, what types of deals you need to ultimately get there. Yeah. And I want people to know, like, it sounds like a lot, but it isn't. I have more freedom in this model than I do when I'm doing a flip and driving out to that product every day or than I did when I was doing Airbnb and, you know, responding constantly to guests requests or complaints because this requires staffing. So I just had to be good enough to set up the systems to hire properly. And then once those things are in place, it does a lot of running itself.

Starting point is 00:38:17 So my level of involvement within the system of living is purely like choice, the things I enjoy to do. I want to go to their doctor's appointments because I want to keep up with what's going on with them. I want to throw the birthday parties for them when that's happening there. So it's still choice. But the actual operations of it, I don't want anybody to shy away from attempting it. If you staff it properly and put management in place, that can still allow you to have that freedom that you want from real estate investing, it just adds a little bit of purpose. for you. Perfect. I love it. That's great. And good advice. It sounds like it's kind of true of every business, right? Like you can choose how much you want to outsource, how much you want to do yourself.

Starting point is 00:38:57 What are you good at? What gives you energy? What fulfills you? Sounds like you found a great balance there. My last question for you, Antoinette, is you gave me a lead here that I need to follow up on. Where do you want your Airbnb's? What are the places? Give me the top three spots you want to go hang out and have an Airbnb. Well, one in L.A. That's not my top. That's my boyfriend's choice, but if I didn't say it, I'd be in trouble. I like Chicago because food is really good there. Honestly, our producer, Ed and I were planning like a road show. And we picked Chicago because we want to just go eat there because the food is so good.

Starting point is 00:39:34 So that's probably in Atlanta because also food is there. It's a little bit closer. And I just love the whole vibe and culture of Atlanta. I think the others would need to be in other countries. So I would go as far as I can. and put one in Bali because also there's a theme here. Food. If you put them there, I'll stay there.

Starting point is 00:39:56 Food is my thing. So I'll be your first guest. And then outside of Bali, another international one, probably Italy, because food. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Just somewhere in central Italy, you'll be eaten great. That's super fun.

Starting point is 00:40:10 I love the dream. I love how you're approaching this and just really thoughtfully pursuing a life that, you want through real estate. That's what this is all about. So thank you so much for joining us here today, Antoinette. We really appreciate you coming on and sharing your story. Thank you for having me. I was worried that I was like, I only have four deals. I don't have that much to update. But thank you for helping me show that, you know, enough. It's still good enough. Absolutely. Small and mighty. Exactly. Well, thanks again, Antoinette. And thank you all so much for listening to this episode of the Bigger Pockets podcast. We'll see you next time. Do you ever notice how every passive investment

Starting point is 00:40:47 somehow turns into a very active lifestyle. Active spreadsheets, active phone calls, active stress. Here's a better question. What if you could buy brand new construction homes, 10% below market value, in the best markets across the country, without making real estate your second job? That's exactly what rent-to-retirement does.

Starting point is 00:41:04 They're a full-service, turnkey investment company, handling everything for you. In some cases, investors get 50 to 75% of our down payment back at closing, plus interest rates as low as 3.75% They've partnered with Bigger Pockets for over a decade, helping thousands invest smarter. If you want to do the same, visit BiggerPockets.com slash retirement to learn more. Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything.

Starting point is 00:41:33 Like packing a spare stick. I like to be prepared. That's why I remember 988, Canada's Suicide Crisis Hubline. It's good to know just in case. Anyone can call or text for free confidential support from a train responder anytime. 988 suicide crisis helpline is funded by the government in Canada.

BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - Financial Freedom with Just 4 Rentals? Why Small Portfolios Win

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.