BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - No Money Investing – Four Techniques with Brandon Turner and David Greene

Episode Date: October 11, 2018

Would you like to invest in real estate but lack the capital? In this powerful episode of The BiggerPockets Podcast, Brandon and David dive deep into the topic to cover four unique strategies for building a real estate empire using other people’s... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the Bigger Pockets podcast show 299 and a half. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, without all the hype, you're in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. All right, what's going on, everyone? This is Brandon Turner. Today's host of this very special kind of weird episode of the Bigger Pockets podcast here

with the co-host of the year, Mr. David Green. Thank you, thank you. This was a long time coming. I worked very hard for it, but I can't say I'm surprised. Nobody deserves it more than me. And I was about to go Kanye West and take the microphone from Taylor Swift and tell how great I am. But, Brandon, you did it for me, so I don't have to.

There you go. There you go. Yeah, you know, it was a hard vote. between you and me because I was co-host this year for a little while. So, you know, you recognize that co-host was a difficult category to win, and you elevated yourself to host to get away from the competition rather than taking on the champ. I can't say I'm surprised. That's what prize fighters do.

Like Floyd Mayweather, you just waited until you couldn't lose and then you took a fight. Wow. Wow. All right. So let's get to today show. I want to directly answer the question. Why is this show called $2.99 and a half? I mean, like, last week was $2.99.

This should be show 300. But here's the reason. It's actually kind of a funny, awkward reason is because next week's show is one of the most impactful, powerful, powerful shows we've ever done, especially for those people were getting started. And we really wanted that to be number 300. But it had to coincide with a certain date, which we'll talk about here in a minute, why next week is an important date.

So we are, you know, awkwardly making a show $2.99 and a half just so that we can fudge with the numbers. and next week can be show 300. So, David, thanks for coming to show 299.5. Well, the important thing that people understand is we're squeezing as many of these things in there as we can because we care about your success, your wealth, and your real estate investing education. That's why we're doing that. That's exactly it.

We're spinning this a little bit. So anyway, with that, we've got to get to this show. Today we're talking about creative real estate investing. In other words, how to do it without using your own capital. We're going to go deep into that topic today. So if that interests you, hang around for that. Before we get to that, we are going to get to actually today's quick tip. And because today is a little bit different show, we're going to do something a little bit different in the quick tip.

In fact, today's quick tip is coming from a listener, a long-time listener of the show, I believe, who's going to be calling in. All right, caller, you're on the air with David Green and Brandon Turner. How can we help you? David Green. Did you kill Josh? How do you know about you're asking questions? Do I need a lawyer? where's Josh? Why isn't he here? Josh left the show a long time ago because he was too good for it.

That's what happened. We had this, you know, nice, nice man named Josh Dorkin, who was a host of the show for many years. And then... Good guy. Great guy. Well, I wouldn't go that far, but... He was the best. He was a guy. And he was on the show for years.

But then he, you know, left to go, you know, do big and better things with family and, you know, whatever. I'm not bitter. I'm not bitter and jealous. Whatever. Are you calling to tell us that you last? the new co-host more than the previous one? Is that your point here, caller? He's better than the former co-host, current coast.

Much better. All right. More, much. Did he just call you more handsome? All right, everybody. So today's quick tip for you. It's from our collar. Your beard.

That's not a tip. That's a bad tip. What's your tip caller today? All right. I got a quick. Ooh, that sounded familiar. Is that good? You like that?

That's pretty good. Tell us what your tip is calling. There we go. One week from today, the host of the Bigger Pockets podcast, along with the current host of the Bigger Pockets podcast, Brandon Turner. This is Josh, by the way, guys. Hi. What's happening? I'm going to be surprised if nobody knows that yet.

All right. David Green has got this, like, stoic stone face. He's completely unamused by this whatsoever, which is really funny. everyone. Hi, David. Hey, this is what it looks like when you're, you're in shock and awe and in the presence of glory, basically, being visited upon us from the past. And it just brings back all these memories of like almost 10 years of bigger pockets listening and hearing your voice, Josh. Man, you make me feel good. All right, guys, it's me. It's Josh. I'm just calling in with today's quick tip. And there's an important reason for it. A, I want to David Green to feel good about

himself, let him know how much better he is than our former co-host. It's considerably better. But that aside, I am calling to let you guys know, we're really, really excited to announce an upcoming book. And that book is authored by the two hosts of the Bigger Pockets podcast, yours truly and Mr. Brandon Turner, titled How to Invest in Real estate, the ultimate beginner's guide to getting started. What do you think about that, David Green? I think that that's probably the number one question that we get on bigger pockets is, I'm a beginner and I don't know how to get started. So it was a fantastic idea to write a book about that. And who better to do it than the two most famous experience and skilled

real estate investing educators in the world? Wait, Kiyosaki, you wrote this book? Just kidding. No, yes. So, Yeah, quick tip. We've got a book coming out. Yeah, we've got a book coming out. Let you guys know, everybody know. That's my quick tip. There's a book.

It's exciting. And it's going to be amazing. And Brandon did a fantastic job. I just showed up once in a while. This book is pretty, pretty cool. But the reason we had Josh come on for the quick tip today is because pre-orders are open right now. And if you pre-order the book, the book actually launches next week. And in fact, next week, Josh is on the entire show.

But, yeah, Josh is on next week's show. We're kicking David Green. off. But the pre-orders are live today. And if you pre-order it, you get invited to a special live webinar with Josh and I doing a Q&A. So if you have questions, you want to talk to us, pick our brain. We're doing a live webinar that you get invited to. It's going to happen like early November. But the calls have already started. The calls have started. Good. Pre-order it. And that's all we got. So we're going to kick you off the show because me and David are going to talk about no money investing. So get out of here, Josh.

Do it. Make moves, guys. Thank you for having me. Enjoy the show, guys. guys keep kicking backside. All right. Well, that was awkward and kind of funny. It was nice to see Josh again. Just not the way I was expecting it to be here. Okay, so for those people who don't know, they're not watching the YouTube version of this.

Josh actually showed up to that quick tip, wearing a ski mask. And all we can see was his eyes. And obviously, you know, we knew it was Josh. But it was a humorous little fun moment. So anyway, so terrorist-looking Josh called him for the quick tip. I think David, you remarked earlier that it felt like kept wanting to reach for your gun to go fight that terrorist.

But, you know, he held it together. A lot of old emotions. Yeah, he definitely looked like he was going to cause some trouble. But it's Josh, right? Like, he can take whatever form he wants. He's a real estate god. If he visits this earth in the form of a beautiful Hercules or a poorly beggar, that's what gods can do. All right.

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But for now, I want to go through this topic of no money because this is like the number one thing I believe that holds up most, maybe number one or number two, depending on the person, that holds up people from really diving into real estate, is I don't have enough capital to just jump in and get started. So that's why this is such an important show. The first thing I want to talk about with David here and kind of go through is, should somebody do no and low money down? What do you think, DG?

H.E. Double hockey sticks. Yes, if you can get into real estate for no money down or low money down, it's better than a lot of money down. And there's a lot of reasons why, but it may not be the reason you think, okay? Most people that I hear from have no money. They don't like their job. They don't manage their finance as well. they're not on a path of financial prosperity.

And so they're looking to real estate to be their savior, right? And that's kind of a problem no matter where you are in life. If you're not doing great in life and you're looking for a significant other to be your savior, you're going to end up in trouble, right? You're vulnerable. You don't want to be in that position at all. You want to be in a position of strength where you can pick and choose the people that bring the most value to you because you bring value to them as a general rule.

Well, real estate works the exact same way. The reason that I like low and no money down is because when I was investing in the traditional method, which is what I just call like putting a big down, payment on a house fixing it up and then having a rental. I learned a lot about investing, but then I ran out of money. And right when I got good at investing, I had no more capital. And that was like a cruel twist of fate. When I learned how to burr, I never ran out of capital. I got much better at investing. I did a lot more deals. I built better relationships. My skills grew. I became an overall much better investor. And it was due to the birth strategy,

which is one of the ways that we're going to talk about investing with no and low money down. So I'm a big fan of doing this for one of the biggest reasons is it allows you to be a better investor and that's what it's all about. You get more deals under your belt. You get more experience. You learn more. You start to get more profitable. And then as you know, Brandon, the better deals you get the less money that you need, right? So it kind of becomes this virtuous cycle to where you don't need money anymore because you're getting really good deals because you learn how to invest the right way. So that is what we're going to talk about today. Lots of strategies to get yourself started and then get better. And this is one of the cool things where it's not like, oh, I don't have any money so I should

invest with no and low money down. Really the best investors invest with other people's money. right? Like, they're not investing with their own money either. It's all about finding good deals and knowing what you're doing. Well, and I think you make a good point there. Like, it's not about being poor. It's not about being rich. It's not about the only people who should invest with no money down are people who are, you know, poor. Like, I would actually say that the better you are as an investor, like, the more experienced you are, the less money that, yeah, those people typically put in, right?

So this is not about get rich quick. It's not about I'm broke, right? In fact, if you're broke, you probably shouldn't invest in real estate. And a lot of people might be surprised to hear me say that. But look, if you can't put food on the table and all of your eggs are in this one basket of I got to do this flip or I got to get this rental going or else I will not be able to feed my family, you've got bigger problems. Fix that problem first. And that's something, David, you and I talk a lot about this idea of like so many people like live paycheck to paycheck and barely scrape by. Now, like, that either means that they're not earning enough money, right, at their job and they need to find a way to make more money, whether it's through their job or through a side hustle.

or the means they're spending way too much money. They need to figure out how to get on a budget and spend less money. I mean, I know people who are earning half a million a year that are broke, living paycheck to paycheck. I know people living $30,000 a year who have plenty of extra money, right? Because there's a financial responsibility thing that has to come first before you get into real estate. Do you agree? 100%.

I mean, there's so many analogies that I could use. I'm a big sports guy, so I usually go to a sports analogy. It doesn't matter if you have an amazing offense and a terrible. defense. Those are the people that are making 500,000 a year and they never have money. They can score a lot of points, but the other team only has to score a little bit more. And if you're spending all that money that's coming in, you're not getting ahead. And it also doesn't matter to have a team that focuses on slowing the game down and making it ugly and messy and keeping the score low. If you still can't score points, right? Like you could say, I save 50% of my income,

but if you make $12 an hour, you're not getting anywhere, you have to combine the two. And like, I've heard Gary Vaynerchuk talk a lot about like where his parents came from and communistic USSR, you did not have a way to get ahead because if you started to get ahead, the other companies were already in place that had ties to the government would come in and chop you off at the knees, right? It wasn't a place like America where there is nothing that stops us here, but our own mindset, our own self-limiting beliefs, our own vices. If you can overcome your own problems in America, you can succeed. And that's what Brandon and I are very, very passionate about. And that's why you hear us talk very passionately about mindset, you know, like having the right

mindset will get you ahead in life, saving money that you're making, earning more money. And we don't like when people come to bigger pockets to say, I hate everything about my life, real estate, save me. Because that's not what it's meant to be. And those are the people that fall for the gurus that say, give me $25,000 and I can change your life. I'll teach you these things that you need to know, right? You don't have to do that. What you do have to do is learn some of the strategies we're going to talk about today. Look at ways to creatively put them into practice. to sharpen your skill set as an investor and slowly start to build your way out of financial ruin

into financial success. Yeah, I love that. I love that. So before we get to the actual, we're going to go through four different strategies, of course, today for doing deals creatively with other people's money. But before we get there,

I want to talk about kind of like the two keys, like two things you have to understand about creative finance in order to put these deals together. Like this is like the foundation, right? There's two keys to it. Key number one is you have to find an incredible deal,

right? The creative finance, the foundation, is finding really, really good deals. Let me give you an analogy of what I mean, or maybe not an analogy, because that's your dominion, David Green. But I'll give you an example.

Let's say David was going to go buy a house or a rental property, we'll call it, right? David's going to go buy a property for $100,000. Now, ignore the number. It's not an important. It's an example, right? $100,000. And David's going to go put down a 30% down payment

because that's what the bank said to do because that's what the bank wants, right? So David drops $30,000 down on the property, and now he has a $7,000. $70,000 mortgage on the property. Everybody follow me here, right? So he's got a $70,000 loan. It's worth $100.

Great. He's got $30,000 of equity because he put a down payment of 30%. Now, if I come and I'm better at finding good deals, and there are so many ways to find good deals, we could do an entire solo podcast or duet podcast. That would we call these a duet? We're going to do a duet podcast today. We could probably find a manlier name than duet to describe these.

Give us some time to work on that, guys. Brandon is a much better marketer than he is showing, right? now. I like duet podcast. Duet ballerina dance together of, yeah, I don't think so. All right. We can do a whole duet podcast just on finding good deals. But for now, let me go back to the story, right? So David buys the $100,000 house.

He gets it for $100,000. He puts 30% down. He's got it for $70K. I go out and I use some creative methods to find good deals. And I buy that same property. And I find it and I get it for $70,000. Now, I buy it with no money down. I buy it for, I use one of the,

four strategies we're going to talk about today, and I get it at the end of the day for $70,000, total all in money. It's still worth $100, just like David's. I still have $30,000 of equity, just like David, except for in this case, I put no money down and David put $30 grand. So here's the thing people always say, no money down is riskier. Well, in that story, who has more risk in that story? Me who put $0 down, I like I made you the bad guy in the story, me who put $0 down or

David who put 30,000 down. In this case, we're at the exact same position, but I have way less risk, right? Because, I mean, I didn't put any money into the things. I have no risk at all yet. We're in the same spot. So it's more important to get good deals than it is to worry about how much money you're putting down payment. Because what, I mean, what if David found that same property, the $100,000 property,

but he paid $150,000 for it and put $30,000 down? Well, now he's like underwater $20,000. So down payment is irrelevant in a way, right? What matters more is equity, and there's two ways to get equity. You can either find equity by getting a good deal or you can put money down to get equity. Anything you want to add to that? Yeah. When you put money down to get equity, it's a false sense of security.

It's you telling yourself, I'm being safe, but you're really not. What you're doing is buying equity. And there's still an assumption that you're actually getting it at market value. Because in the example of where I paid $150 for a $100,000 house, turnkey, right? You actually didn't buy equity. You bought debt. You owe more than the house is worth and you lost your money in it. Okay.

So that is something we want to change your mindset on is don't think that a down payment automatically equals equity. It can. Right. Here's another, but when we're referring to risk, Brandon is safer, right? But there's more than just risk to look into this.

What if we look at time and effort? Okay. When Brandon went out and got that deal for $70,000 that I bought under contract for $100,000, think about how much time, effort, and energy I had to put into saving that $30,000. What if that represented a year of my life working in a side hustle to save $30,000 that Brandon didn't have to do? Think about what you can get done with a year of your life's time, energy, and effort. Brandon could have made money on the side doing something else. He could have found five more deals.

He could have found deals and wholesale them to other investors. He could have read 100 books. There's all kinds of things you can do that will improve your financial position in life with that same time that David spent earning and saving that $30,000. And I'm okay being the bad guy in this example because this is how I live my life. life for my first six, seven, eight years of real estate investing before I got serious and realized the birth strategy was just a bazillion times better. And that's why I'm writing the book on that because I'm very passionate about other people not making that same mistake. So we're challenging some of the ways you're thinking, but it's because we love you and we know that there's a better

way that will come out once you understand it from the perspective we do. There you go. So I said earlier there are two, I like that by the way. There are two keys to no money, right? The first one I said is you got to get great deals. The foundation of creative investing is getting good deals. The second key, though, is that creative finance is a toolbox. And I use this analogy in the book on investing in real estate with no and low money down because I really like this analogy. So the idea being this, if you only have a hammer in your toolbox, if you want a toolbox and you have just a hammer, you can do very few projects. You can like pound in a nail if it happens to be in the wall already, you know, or you have a nail line around. You could like hit somebody in the

head if they break into your house. That's about it, right? But you add in a screwdriver and a wrench and a, I don't know, a jackhammer. And the more tools you have in your toolbox, the more and greater projects you can take on, right? And so adding a tape measure, adding a saw, adding all these things, the more tools you own, the more projects you can take on. So in the same way with creative finance, it's not enough just to have one method that you just, you know, you go to. This is my method. I think it's a good idea to learn a lot of methods because every deal is unique. That deal might work really well for the birth strategies we'll talk about. That one might work better for house hacking, which we're going to talk about. That one might work better for a hard money loan,

which we're going to talk about. So like different deals work different ways, but you've got to have a lot of tools, which is why today's show, I think, hopefully you guys are enjoying this already and hopefully you'll continue to because we're going to give you a bunch of different ways. We're going to fill your toolbox today. And again, you might know this stuff. Maybe you've read this in a book or you've heard it before, but I want to encourage you to listen through anyway because you might just pick up one more tip, one more idea, one more way to think about it, that changes how you run your business. So those are the two keys. Of course, getting great deals and fill your toolbox. And without further ado, unless you want to add anything

to that, David, let's jump into the four. Is that good? Let's do it, man. All right. Number one is, and we're going to fly through these pretty quick. Of course, there's a million blog posts and articles and forum posts and books on all of these topics. But we're going to fly through them. But the first one is partnerships, using partnerships. Now, quick story on partnerships. So when I discovered the power partnerships and two different stories, I'll tell the first one. I try to flip a house. My very first house I ever tried to flip deliberately. I mean, I flipped an accident to a live-in flip, but the first official flip I tried to do was back in like 08,

and the market was crashing, and I couldn't sell it. And I didn't really know what to do, and I didn't have the ability to get a mortgage because I didn't have a job. So I found a partner. In fact, I actually grabbed my dad, and I said, well, you save me from ruin by helping me. So I brought him in as a partner, and then he had no problem getting a loan on that property,

and we just turn it into a rental property because my dad's like a solid, you know, he's like the bank's best friend. So that's the first time I ever tried to use a partnership in any way and it was like more like daddy, I need your help. And it worked, right? So then later on, I found this triplex, a rental that I just absolutely love the idea of this triplex. I really wanted it. It was a great deal. I didn't have the money for it. I didn't have the ability to get a loan. So how was I going to do it? Well, I found a couple that I knew, some good friends of mine. And I mentioned to them that I was putting together a deal and asked if they knew anybody that might be interested in helping me fund it. And they said, well, we might be interested in that. And of course, they ended up bringing

the down payment. They didn't even have to have all the money. They just brought the down payment. We want to get real deep. They didn't even bring the down payment. They used a home equity line of credit on their house to bring the down payment. I brought no money to the deal. They brought the down payment and the rehab costs. And we split everything 50-50. And that is the power of partnerships I learned very stronger than it. All of a sudden, I was making hundreds of dollars a month in cash flow on this property. And I had no money. into it. Of course, they brought some money into it, but they had zero work into it. So they loved that, right? They had no work at all, but they had an easy ability to get a loan. So anything

you want to add to that? But, but, but Brandon, that's because you're Brandon Turner. You host a podcast. You had investment property. You're six foot five. You know, handsome, Beardy. Josh, the surprise caller, Dorkin, right? How do I do it when I'm not as experience as you? Brandon, what is the secret for why those people felt safe and comfortable giving knew their money. Yeah, there's a couple of things in there. First of all, I was not, that was pre-podcast. That was pre-me, even knowing Josh Dork, and that was pre anything. I had a few properties. I had done a couple flips at the time. I was very early on. What got me that deal was, one, I built good relationships, right? I build good relationships

with people all the time. Real estate is a relationship business. We talk about it all the time here on the show. The second thing I did is I talk about my deals. I make sure everybody knows that I'm a real estate investor. I put it on my Facebook. I talk about it. I go to meetups, right? Everybody knows what I do. And third, I'm really good at showcasing the strength of a deal. Now, this was before the days of the Bigger Pockets calculator, which we made for this very reason, is that you can have the best deal in the world, but if you can't showcase its strength, you have a hard time convincing people to fund it for you, right? So I would spend hours putting together really nice, like PDF documents, like colors, graphs, I mean, literally hours before presenting

to deal to somebody like these partners. And I'd walk them through all the numbers. I'd sit down for a presentation. And I might spend 10 hours getting this. But at the end of the day, of course, it's worth it, right? If you can pull off a no money down deal. So that's how I was able to do it, right? I was confident in my numbers.

I found a great deal. I network with people and I let everyone know what I do. So I put a thing on my Instagram a long time ago at Beardy Brandon, if you want to check it out. But it's basically like triangle, right? And on one side of triangle, it says knowledge. Another side of triangle, it says hustle. And the other side is,

money. And the key to creative finances, you only need to bring in two of these in reality. If you want to do no money down deals, you only need two out of that triangle. Right. So, if you don't have the money, bring the knowledge, bring the hustle. And when I say hustle, what I mean is like the work, the getting in there, the finding the deals, the making it happen, the networking. Like that side of thing you do not need money for. You do not need money for the knowledge. I mean, if you want to be real cheap, just go to your library and go most of the, there's every Library has dozens of real estate books. Go read them there if you want or pick them up on Amazon or go to BiggerPockets.com.com. Store. Get the knowledge, listen to podcast, hustle. And there are so many people out

there who have money but do not have time to hustle or do not have the patience to sit on a podcast and listen to David Green and Brandon and some obscure terrorist caller talk about real estate. Right. Like people don't have that, not that hustle to do that. Whoever's listening to this show right now, you guys have that and that is worth way more than money and that's where partnerships come in really handy this is so good okay guys this is not just brandon saying a lot of words it sound good like he's giving you the playbook to do what he's doing and i want to sum up what brandon said so everybody here can get serious about if you want to do what brandon did look at these points okay he mentioned he had done a couple deals not a hundred deals but not zero deals he had done just a couple you hear us say all the time

hey, your first deal is really important. Get one under your belt. This is why we're not just blowing smoke where we have seen because we deal with frustrated and new investors all the time asking how to get started, what needs to happen? And we know this is the cornerstone that gets you moving. That's why we're always saying this. And if you guys understand how bigger pockets was built,

a lot of it was by people like Brandon and I talking about, man, people have a hard time with this or I'm having a hard time with that. And then they build something in bigger pockets to help somebody like that. We're giving you guys the playbook for how that worked. Brandon talked about his deals a lot. This is a fancy word is marketing, right? But all he was doing was when he met people, he talked about real estate. He said, I just flipped this house.

I just bought this rental, right? Even though he'd only done one or two deals, if he talked about it to enough people, people started to think, whoa, he's really good. He knows a lot about real estate. That's probably all they thought. They didn't know anymore, but that's all he needed for them to be potentially interested in buying deals with him is that he had that credibility, right? He would showcase those deals specifically.

Here's the thing about this deal that worked out so well. that's very important. I do that as a real estate agent. Whenever I talk to people, they're like, what's going on in your life? I say, you know, it's crazy. It's such a hot market, but I'm getting 100% of my buyers into contract because I'm doing these three things that other agents are doing. People don't know real estate that well, but what they know is, well, that sounded smart. I would use David if I wanted to buy a house. That's what you need. You showcase the part of the deal or the part of your business that's working so that when people walk away from you, they're left with a good impression. Brandon didn't mention it, but I will tell you this, his personal reputation mattered

there too. He lives a life of above board character. I would give Brandon money and I know that he would pay me back, right? I would have no doubt about it because Brandon wouldn't sleep at night if he didn't. If that's not what people think when they think about you, if they're like, they're a hustler, but they're also kind of shady, right? They're not going to let you borrow money. So you need to have introspective look at yourself and say, am I living my life in a way that people would actually feel comfortable letting me borrow their money? That's a great point. Really good point. And this is another reason why we tell people follow us on Instagram. I'm at David Green 24. He's a Brandon. We want you to see what we are posting so that you see what good marketing looks like

and how you build a good reputation for yourself so that you can copy it and you can do the same thing in your own life, right? I follow Brandon. In fact, I have my assistant, his name's Alan Roso, and he's kicking butt right now following all of Brandon's videos because we're going to start making them and we want it to look as good as Brandon's does, right? If it worked for Brandon, it would work for me. So we're copying his content. You guys should be doing the same thing of us. You should be following the Grant Cardones or you don't have to do it like Grant Cardone's doing it, but you can still learn from the way that he's putting his stuff out there. And if you change your style to look more like that, you're more likely to get the same credibility

that these other people do. So I know it's easy when you hear Brandon say what he did to just like, oh, that makes sense and move on. But stop and dissect that and then ask yourself, what can I do? So as you're listening to this, you should be pulling up your phone and following he and I on Instagram and any other people, like maybe a Gary Vaynerchuk that you're like, well, that guy markets really well. look at how they're doing it and then copy that stuff as you build up your own business. There you go.

I love it. All right. So partnership's a fantastic way to invest. In fact, yeah, like if you, that's like the one technique of all of these that we're going to talk about today where if you legitimately have no money at all. And earlier I said it's not no money down isn't for people who have no money. But this one in a way could be. And here's why I say that you could partner with somebody. And what I mean by that is find somebody who's experienced, knowledgeable, doing,

lots of real estate deals. And you can partner with them and have them help you with every part of the deal. And who cares if you get 1% of that deal? Because next time, maybe you'll get 20%. Right. Get the deal done. Even if you're broke, go partner with someone, even if it means 99% and 1% or even if it means you're working for free.

Right. And you get no equity or no cash flow. The point is like, this is like the one caveat to the don't do it if you're broke. You could partner with somebody and be the knowledge and the hustle side of things and maybe make some money in the process. So partnership. There you go. Everybody here is understanding, yeah, there's some value in borrowing money, right?

If I have to give away some equity, I'll do it to build a borrow money. What Brandon's talking about is borrowing credibility. And that can be even more valuable than money. If you would do it, if you give away equity for money, give away equity for credibility. It's even more important. Now you're the person who has one, two, or three deals under their belt. And when you don't want to give away any of the equity more, you don't have to,

you can just give away equity for money instead of credibility because you've built it. Yeah, I love it. All right, so the next one we want to move on to is to talk about a strategy that both David and I do quite excessively, we could call it. It's something that I love this idea. It's called the burr strategy. David, can you tell us what burr is, what it stands for, and how it works? I love burr. I would talk about burr all day long every day if I could.

It's everything that I like in life all wrapped up into a strategy. It's efficient. It allows you to scale faster. It allows you to leverage and it forces you to become excellent of what you do. It's an acronym that stands for buy rehab rent refinance repeat. And it's a way of buying property, the order in which you're buying it, you're just switching a few things around and that little change can add up to a huge difference in the amount of money you pull out of the deal.

So in the example that Brandon gave earlier, where David paid a house for $100,000 and put $30,000 down and he paid $70,000 for the same house that was worth $100. It wouldn't, it doesn't have to end there. Brandon could pay the $70,000, get the house, then refinance it. It's worth 100. The bank lets him borrow 70% loan to value. So he gets his $70,000 back. He can now go buy another house, but this time he'll do even better because he takes everything he learned from that first deal and applies it and does even better on the second deal.

That sounds pretty good. So I want to go into an example of this, but I believe you have an example of this for today's deep dive. Yep. I'm going to pull back the curtain and tell everybody all about the last deal that I did. It was a bird deal. I'll explain exactly what I paid for it, how I found it, all the stuff we go into in the deep dive. and then you guys should be able to see, I see why these guys are into it,

this is where it's at. All right, well, what's that? Let's get to the deep dive. There are two kinds of real estate investors, those who have reviewed their insurance and those who think that they have. Most don't realize their coverage wasn't built for how they actually invest.

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And they're still the only lender with a DSCR price beat guarantee. That means faster closing, the best terms, zero guesswork. That's Dominion Financial. Check them out at biggerpockets.com slash Dominion. Again, that's biggerpockets.com slash dominion. Wouldn't it be great if your houseplants paid rent while you were out of town? I mean, they've got the whole place to themselves, lots of sunlight, zero responsibilities. But no, they just sit there waiting for someone to spray them with some cool mist like a bunch of leafy loafers.

But guess what? Your home actually could be earning you money while you're not there. Airbnb has a great feature called the co-host network, which makes hosting your home so easy. If you live far from your property or are away for extended periods, you can hire a local co-host to take care of the hosting for you. These co-hosts are vetted locals who already have experience hosting on Airbnb. A co-host can handle all the details like messaging guests, creating your host space, and managing reservations. So everything runs smoothly.

It's a practical way to earn a little extra money, maybe even some cash toward your next trip. Plus, you get to share your place with someone traveling to your area while you're off making memory somewhere else. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. All right, everybody, this is the deep dive. This is a part of the show where we dive deep into one particular. deal of our guest. And today, our guest, of course, is just me and David. And so we're going to dive into

one of David's deals. So let's get to it. We've got seven or eight questions we're going to ask about this. First of all, David, tell us a little bit before we get into the finding it, how much it was, all that stuff. Like, what is this and where was it at? This was a single family house with three bedrooms and one bathroom in Jacksonville, Florida. All right. So let's get to the deep dive questions. These seven. Number one, how did you find it? I found the house because a wholesaler emailed me and said, hey, I have a really good deal. I think you should move on it soon. All righty.

Number two, how much was the property? I paid $45,000 for the property. And then I got three rehab estimates. And I went with the middle one. It wasn't the cheapest, but it wasn't the most expensive. And it was $8,500 for the rehab, which meant my total cost to be into this house was $53,500. All right.

And what did you think at the time? Well, I'll get to that when we get to the outcome. But how did you negotiate? Any fancy negotiation stories in there? So negotiation, that's actually a funny story. We typically look at negotiating like, how did you get it for less money, right? But negotiation is all about how did you get a deal that worked for you the best and worked for the other people? In this case, the strongest thing that I brought to the deal negotiating wise was closing on it faster than anybody else could. They had already marked this house down so much and the person needed a quick sale.

Like they needed to sell it that week that I went in there and said, I'll pay you $1,000 more than what you need if you don't show this to anybody else and you let me wrap it up right now. It was that good of a deal. That's awesome. That's awesome. How did you fund it? How did you come up with this 53? Yeah.

Talk about the strategy there. Yeah. So what I had done was I had sold a rental property in Phoenix, Arizona, and I had taken the proceeds and I said, I'm going to go start buying in Jacksonville, Florida with this money. And this was one of the first houses that I was looking at. It may have been the first one I bought. So I took the money from Phoenix. And I didn't even do a 1031.

I just sold. It's really the only house I've ever sold in my whole investing career. And I took that money, put it in the bank, and then I went looking in Jacksonville. And this is the deal I found. All right. So you had some cash. So you bought it for cash. I must have me then use.

Yep. Okay. Paid cash for it. What did you do with it then? Like flip rental burr? How did that work? So this was a burr strategy, as we alluded to earlier. And all that I had to do to get it ready for rent was I had to remodel.

It's a one and a half bathrooms. So I had to remodel the half bathroom. I had to, instead of doing new flooring, I just went in there and refinished the hardwood floors they already had. They were in terrible shape, but refinishing floors is much cheaper than putting in new ones. And then I did stuff like painted it, painted the cabinets. I put in some new appliances. I fixed a lot of dry rot that they had going on. And I paid a landscaper or like a cheap landscaper to go in there and cut down the jungle that had become this house. It was like it looked horrible. And that was one of the reasons that I was able to get it for such a low price is the owner was thinking, I can't sell this

thing on the MLS. It looks so bad. But it was like $400 to pay some. I'm going to go in there for two days and just hack these, you know, weeds down. But what I'm saying is it looked a lot worse than what it really was when I translated the problem into a financial amount on paper. Sure. Yeah. And it's actually, landscaping is one of those things that doesn't actually cost usually that much money unless you get really fancy, you know, with retaining walls or whatever else. But like really, like cutting down stuff, it's usually a low dollar per hour task that you

can hire people and it makes a huge impact. So cool. All right. So, okay, you funded it that way. You did it. You did a bird, which means you would have gone and refinanced it, right? So you bought it. You fixed it up, you rehabed it, you rented it out, and then later you went to a bank to

refinance it. Tell us about that. What was the outcome, in other words? What did it appraise for? What did you end up pulling out? So the house appraised for $95,000 after the work I had done. I was expecting it to come in between $85 and $90. So I was very happy with $95,000. They let me borrow 75% of the value of the home, which meant I got a loan for $71,250. Now, I was all in for $53,500, which means I got back $17,750 more than what I put into this house. Okay? The house rented for $1,000 a month. So when I added up all my expenses, my cash flow was about $450.

So if I was to sum all this up, I ended up with a check for almost $18,000 more than what I put in, a house that was pretty well rehabbed and wasn't going to have any issues for a really long time, $450 a month in passive income, plus every relationship that I built. The wholesaler now knows when David says he's going to buy something, he's going to buy it. I went on to buy about eight more houses from that wholesaler. I met a landscaper who's willing to do a lot of work for really cheap money. I developed a relationship with a bank that I've refinanced about 20 more houses with after that, right? I could go on and on about all the benefits that came from this.

But that house became the cornerstone that I then built a portfolio in Northern Florida on because I use the birth strategy well. Cool. fancy last question of the deep dive what lessons overall did you learn did you want to add to that i mean that was pretty good already but yeah this house was i was able to buy it because i had cash and i could close with what the seller needed was like a close within a week right so i was in a position of financial strength going into this that allowed me to capitalize on all this stuff so there's people that will say well of course you know you got a deal for 53 000 that it was going to be worth 95 anyone could make money if that's the case right so be that anyone put yourself

in the position where you have to access to this same capital, talk to private money people and say, hey, this is what I want to do if I find a deal. Can you have this money on standby so I can go buy it, right? Don't just say, well, I can't do that because I'm not that person. Ask yourself, what would it take to be in the position to where I could do it too? Because now I have all my money back plus $17,000. So I went into it paying $53 and I walked out of it with a check for $71. Now I can go put a house under contract up to $70,000. And I can do the very same thing again with the very same money and build my portfolio that way. There you go. So last thing I want to talk about because we're talking about this is a no money deal. People are listening to this and

saying, well, sure, it must be nice to have, you know, $55,000 just sitting around. I couldn't do this deal because of that. What do you say to those people? I got that money because I bought a different house and it appreciated in value and then I sold it and I took the equity plus my original down payment and rolled it into a more efficient deal. And I got the money to buy that house from working overtime at my job as a police officer rather than going to Cancun or hanging out with all my buddies when they were flying and vacationing because they thought they had extra income, right? I had a plan. I knew I wanted it. I designed my life around the plan, what it would take to be successful. I executed it. I saved up a little chunk of money. And then by making wise investment decisions, I built it up,

built it up and built it up until I got to the point that that snowball was so big that this first house I bought in Florida turned into like 20 something more houses after that. So it's hard in the beginning, right? But it gets much easier once you get going. So if you can power through the initial, like how do I do this phase and get into where you're actually taking action. The whole thing because it's much easier. Yeah, that's great. That's great. Now I would add one more point too is if you,

if you were trying to do this, let's say you had the exact same deal in front of you, this deal that David found here. Like, you could use one of the other strategies we talked about today. I mean, that we're talking about like the partnership, right?

Like David could have found a partner to bring the $53,000 down. Or he could have done what we're going to talk about next, which is hard money. So let's shift over there away from Burr and move over to hard money. Now, hard money, of course, what is it? Let me tell you a quick story. So I, when I was trying to flip my very first house, I told you guys about earlier, right, the one that didn't go so well and I had to refinance it. But I was looking away to flip and I had no money, no job, no credit, really to speak of. And I needed to find a way. And I read this in a book and they mentioned this

word hard money. And I was like, well, what's that? And basically what it is? It's people or businesses out there who lend money usually to house flippers and to burr investors, but usually of householders on very short term, like a year is usually about max, and then really high fees and points. You might be paying 10, 12, 15% on interest rate potentially. And you might be paying $2, 3, 4, 5, $10,000 in a fee, we call them points up front on the deal. So it's very, very expensive. And I remember reading this going, well, why would anybody in their right mind ever pay somebody 12% to borrow from hard money? And then the book just says, I said this. I said, well, that's why when you run your numbers, and when you do the math,

just plug those numbers into your math. And if it works out, who cares what they're making? And it was like epiphany. Like, oh, that's, yeah, that's completely right. Who cares what they're making it? If the hardman lender is making 20 grand, but I'm making 30 grand, who cares? It's a great way when you're getting started to work in there. So have you used hard money at all? I've used hard money for the initial, like on flips I use it a lot of the time. And I've used it a handful of times for Burr projects where I didn't have the cash available. I was waiting on a refinance from other homes. So I use hard money to buy the house. Then the ref I went through. I went and paid off the hard money. Okay. Yeah. So hard money can be a good tool. It is expensive,

right? It's honestly not as expensive as a partnership, though, if you think about it, right? Yep. Like I like hard money, especially when you're getting started, maybe don't have all the funds for a couple reasons, right? So first of all, a hard money lender is typically somebody who has been an investor before. They look at hundreds, if not thousands of deals. They get the business. So it's almost like you get a second opinion on your entire deal if it's worth doing. If they'll fund your deal, there's a good chance that they'll do it. In fact, I had a hard money lender once that would not fund a deal for me. And I'd worked with him a number of times. If he wouldn't do it, he said, I don't like the deal. I don't think it's good enough. And I wouldn't did it

anyway. I was like, well, you know, screw you. I'm doing it anyway. And that deal ended up being the worst deal I ever did. I ended up losing a bunch of money on that one. I should have listened to him because he was more experienced than me. And so that's another reason I like hard money. It's also very quick. You can get funded in days. And right now in this economy, there are in this part of the market, there are a lot of hard money lenders out there, a lot of them, right? And so they're competing back in the day where average was 15 to 18% for hard money. I've even heard of hard men lenders getting in the single digits now, down to 8% for hard money and like $1,000 or $2,000 fees. It's gotten very competitive at the

hard money space. So you can potentially find some pretty decent money that's not that much more expensive than traditional, but way, way faster, way easier to work. Yeah. In a sense, a hard money lender is a form of a partner also. They're sharing risk with you and they're sharing reward because if your house sells and you can pay them back, they win. If your house doesn't sell, they just took a hit because they have to foreclose and take over the project you couldn't work on. So they're just a cheaper partner than giving away a big chunk of equity to somebody else. So yeah, you're still partnering with somebody if you're using a loan on a house at all. you might as well find an experienced person to partner with like a hard money lender than an inexperienced person who would leave you like in the situation you ended up with losing money.

Yeah, that's very true. So I want to talk because it's the no money show. Let's talk about how hard money will. Hard money really lend with no money down. Like can you really get no money down loan? Yes and no. So most hard money lenders like to see what's called skin in the game, which basically means you should have some kind of like incentive for not blowing. the deal up, right? Like, they're investing in you and people, hard-bendlers usually want to say that

you have skin in the game. Now, could that come from a partnership? Could it come from a credit card? I mean, could it come from something? Probably. That said, there are hard many lenders out there who will do a 100% loan and 100% of the rehab if you find a good enough deal. In fact, you know, this book that Josh alluded to earlier that's in pre-order right now. You can go to bigger pockets.com store to check it out. But it's called How to Invest in Real Estate, right? So for that book, we did some bonus content that anybody who buys a book gets. And one of those pieces of bonus content is a series of interviews that I did with some lenders, a commercial lender, a traditional lender, and a hard money lender.

And in that interview with the hard money lender, I flat out asked, will you guys lend on something no money? And he said, absolutely, if it's a good enough deal. Like, basically, they will lend. I think his was, and it's been a few weeks since I've recorded this, but I think it was like 65 or 70%. Whatever the after repair value is, if the proper. property's worth 100,000 when it's all fixed up, they will lend, we'll call it 65% of that,

which means 65,000. So if you find a property for 50,000, that needs $15,000 of work, but will be worth 100 grand when it's done, boom, you can do potentially no money down there. Now, again, goes back to the if you're flat broke, there's a lot that could go wrong. So I don't recommend it if you have no money to feed your family. You have no reserves. That's not what we're talking about here. But you could do a no money down deal.

and if you don't have the money at all, bringing a partner, something like that. I would add to that that your track record is going to matter a lot too. If this is your first deal and you go to the hard money lender, like, what's an ARV? Oh, I think I heard Brandon and David talk about that. I thought it was an AVR, right? You're not as likely to inspire confidence that if they know you're a house flipper, you're successful, you've done several deals. Even if you don't have skin in the game financially, you have skin in the game time-wise,

and they know you value your time because you're a successful business person. So having a couple deals under your belt will definitely grease those wheels and make it easier for you. But they will lend to first time investors. You just better have that knowledge. You know, we talked about the triangle earlier. The deal delta is what I call it. The deal delta, right? You got to have the knowledge and the hustle if you want to avoid the money.

The money. You got to have the knowledge and hustle if you want to avoid bringing the money. You can tweet me on that. All right, moving on to the next one, unless you want anything more to hard money. Oh, I will add one more than a hundred money. Bigger pockets actually has the web's largest, I believe, the web's largest collection of hard mail lenders. We've been adding to it for years. It's all sorted by state.

It's fantastic, and it's 100% free to go search that list. So go to biggerpockets.com slash hard money lenders. And also, if you're using the bigger pockets calculators, like the house flipping calculator, when you get a result, like on page four of the calculator, you can actually click one button and it'll send it over to some hard many lenders in your area to look at the deal that you just analyzed, which I think is super cool as well. So definitely check it out, a biggerpockets.com slash hard money lenders, plural. All right.

last one of the four today. Well, that maybe doesn't apply to everybody, but something that I'm just a huge fan of is this idea of house hacking. So David Green, what is house hacking? House hacking is utilizing different strategies to lower the payment that you have to make in a house you're buying.

And it can take many different forms. It can be buying a triplex and renting out two of the units. It can be buying a home and renting out a couple of bedrooms. It can be buying a fourplex, renting out three of the units, and then two of the bedrooms and then you sleeping in the family room or something, right? Like there's all kinds of ways you can combine this, but it's looking for the highest and best use of your property from a financial perspective. How can I make this into a income generating machine that I can also live in at the same time? So on top of all the money the house is making you

offensively, it's now saving you the money that you used to pay in rent. So it's helping you defensively as well, which can have huge impacts on your financial position overall. Yeah. And I love the fact that like house hacking, it's like you get training wheels, right? so you're kind of learning how to do it. It's like, you know, I figured out my very first rental property. After I kind of accidentally flipped a house I lived in, I bought a duplex. And all I knew was, well, if I lived in one of the, you know, it was two houses on one lot. If I lived in one house, the other house could help pay the mortgage.

And in fact, my mortgage was like $6.20 a month. And the first day they brought over the tenants, my new tenants, about $6.50 in rent and cash over. I don't take rent and cash anymore. But they brought like $6.50 over. And I was like, I just made, like, I'm living for free. Like, this is the best thing ever. Now you can dump all the money that you were spending on, I used that actually to quit my job at that point to go flip houses.

And I was able to do that because I had very few expenses. Scott talks about this a lot. Scott Trench, host of the Bigger Pockets, Money Podcasts, and author of the book, set for life. Scott talks a lot about house hacking because, like, that's what he did as well. He actually read an article years ago that I wrote on house hacking, and he started a house hacking. Then he came on at Bigger Pockets. And today he's president of Bigger Pockets Corporation there in Denver.

So like and host of the money podcast. So house hacking can be a fantastic way to get started. And of course, it's duplex, triplex, fourplex. Some people even do it with a single family house. They rent out the bedrooms. And then there's one more way to house hack that we don't. Actually, there's two more things about house hacking we'll talk about. First of all, if people are wondering how you do house hacking with no money down,

here's what we mean by that. When you have a house that you're going to live in for at least a year, you can get some special financing that is very low down payment, sometimes no down payment. For example, there is something called an FHA loan. It's three and a half percent down. So if you bought a $100,000 property, it's $3,500 bucks. Fairly easy to qualify for that thing. I'm sure, David, you probably work with FHA buyers.

I know that I sell almost every house I sell as to an FHA buyer. There's also something called a USDA loan if you're in a little more rural area. Oh, there you go. Rural makes it come back. Rural area. You can get it for no money down. There's also one to VA loan, which is zero money down for a VAL loan. you know, people, either you were in the military or your family was, like your spouse.

And there's even something called a 203K loan, which today I coined a new term, right? So house hacking was a term that we came up with years ago. Then Burr was a term we came up with a few years after that. The new term you're going to hear it here first today is Brouse hacking. And it's Browse hacking, B-R-R-R-R-R-O-U-S-E hacking. Browse hacking is the idea where you're combining house hacking. with Burr. You're buying a property that you're going to live in. You're going to fix it up. You're going to rent it out as a duplex, triplex, triplex, fourplex, or maybe just bedrooms.

And you're going to refinance it. But you may skip the last refinance. So it's really like BRR. And here's how. It's a loan called a 203K loan. It's part of the FHA program. Don't get confused here. I mean, I'm getting into the weeds here a little bit, but it's important. 203K loan is a loan that's part of the FHA government-sponsored loan, which allows you to bring just three and a half percent of the total, which means the rehab and the purchase price. So if you find a fixer-upper that you want to buy and then fix up, let's say you found a house for 100 grand, and it needed 100 grand of work. Well, now you're at 200 grand total, right? So you can just bring 3.5% down of that 200 grand. You're bringing $7,000 to the table. And FHA program,

the 203K loan program, will fund the entire $97,000 of your rehab. It's pretty cool. Now, the numbers have to work out. It's got to be an incredible deal. But browse hacking can be a great way to get in because you find a nasty multifamily, small multifamily and get in there. I love braous hacking this idea. Yeah, and what I love is that we're combining two of the methods that we're talking about in the show to give you even better result. And in a little bit, when we sum up the show, we're going to go over some examples, other examples of how you combine this tool from the tool belt with this tool from the tool belt and build this cool thing that you can kind of stand on to elevate your financial position. I have an example of a client that listened to the podcast. He reached out to me. He's name's Ryan Miser, awesome guy.

He said, David, I've been listening to on the Bigger Pockets podcast. I work in San Francisco. Mortgage are insanely expensive, but I love this city. He works in the tech industry. So they make good money, but they also have to spend it all on their. expenses. He said, how can I do this? So we talked about house hacking, right? Obviously, the more bedrooms he could buy, the better off he could be because he has more to rent out. So we found Ryan this like, it's kind of like a condo, but similar to a condo in San Francisco

in a very, very good area that a lot of people wanted to live, but of course they're expensive. He was able to buy this thing, rent out two of the rooms and live in it completely for free in the most expensive city in the world while having other people pay off his mortgage and saving all the rent that he was throwing away to rent from somebody else, right? It's the perfect way of he gets to be a homeowner. He gets to save all his money. He gets to build equity over time and he gets to pay his loan down over time in a city that we typically would think there's no way that that could work, right? And because he's renting it out to other people live in the tech industry, most of those guys work all day, they come home and sleep and they go right back to work. It's not really going to have

a big impact on his living situation. Now, if you're hearing this and you're thinking, well, I could never have someone live with me, that's fine. Is it worth having to work until you're 70 years old because you don't want to have someone live with you for a short period of time, right? Like it's sometimes making that sacrifice for a little while is worth it because of what you're going to get in the end. And if you just work a little harder, like maybe you find a nurse who works the night shift and she's sleeping when you're at work and when she's at work, you're home sleeping and you never run into each other. It's not like you're going to come home and some weirdos is going to be eating Cheetos on your couch and their underwear, like just making everybody uncomfortable.

You might be able to find a way to where it has a very like minimally intrusive impact on your lifestyle and you get all the benefits of house hacking. So there's lots of ways to look into house hacking. But if your problem is, I don't know, I just can't afford to buy a house right now. What you're really saying is I can't afford to buy a house right now and have the lifestyle that I'm accustomed to and I want to keep. Yeah, that's fantastic. And yeah, there's other ways to do it as well. If you don't want to live with somebody like, I mean, you could do vacation rental hacking, like ver, how do you call that, Verous hacking? Brous hacking. We're just making up terms left and right here. You can do vrass hacking, right? You could do a live-in flip. That's another method, right,

that we, that Mindy co-host or host of the money podcast, right? Her and her husband are like serial live-in flippers. We need a name for live and flip. That's too many words. Flip hackers. Flip hackers. So I don't know. Well, it's awesome because you avoid capital gains taxes when you go sell your house. And that's like a huge expense when you're a house flipper. And you're reducing your risk by an incredible amount because if it doesn't go up in value or you can't sell it to make money, you just keep living there. It's very hard to lose when you're a living flipper. In fact, the house that I'm leaving here in Washington, you know, the house that I'm selling, basically that's what I did. Like I haven't actually officially closed yet. We're closing here in

a, I don't know, a month or so and I'll officially become a Hawaiian native at some point here coming up this fall. But when the house sells, so like what I did is I bought it for $280,000 back two years ago, a little over two years ago. I bought it for $280,000. Then I put in probably like 25 grand worth of work. I like fixed it up 30 grand. I mean it wasn't like nasty, but it was like oak cabinets, oak counter. I mean like like lamina counters.

So I like fixed it up, made it like repainted, made the landscaping, whatever. Put in 25, 30 grand of work over those two years. I'm selling it now for 400 or just under like 390 or whatever it is. So like essentially at the end of the day, I'm going to make, I think somewhere in like the $75,000 range, like maybe $6,000. you know, depending on, I can't remember the closing cost total.

But anyway, let's call it even 60 grand, right? So I'm basically making 60 grand. At zero taxes, because I held it for two years. It's my primary for two years. I owe no taxes on it. If I were to take $60,000, $60,000 divided by 24 months roughly that I live there. That's $2,500 a month I was basically making. Guess what my entire expenses to live in that house were?

About 1,800 a month, 1900 a month. So in other words, I just live for free. you really want to like, so it's the same thing. That's why we call it part of house hacking, because if you do a live and flip right, you could potentially like at the end of the day live for free or make a large chunk that you can then dump into real estate later. So that's a live and flipping. I think it's very, very cool and a good way to get in for low or no money down as well.

When you hear Brandon and I talk about we use real estate to build wealth, it's not are we live in flippers or are we house flippers or are we burr investors? It's all of it. Yeah. I'm going to do burr investing and I'm going to flip a couple deals again. while doing a live-in flip, and I'm going to house hack that live-in flip to save myself some money, and I'm going to maybe buy it with a private money partner. Like, you're combining all this stuff together to save you money at every step,

and all these little small actions add up to huge results over time. And you're not really doing a lot of work. You're letting real estate do the work. You're just, like, there's this saying that small hinges swing big doors. Real estate is a very big door. You just have to control that hinge. and we're giving you guys some of the tools that you can use to control and build that hinge to swing a really big door. And once you get good at this, a lot of it kind of just takes on a life of its own and does stuff for you.

So now Brandon did this and he moved into Hawaii. And from Hawaii, he's now, he can house hack. He can live there for free. If he makes his health worth more, he can do a live and flip and he can move into somewhere else or he can leave it and he can do a vacation rental. There's all kinds of doors that are going to open up because we understand how real estate works and how to make it work us, then you start applying those things and you can live an epic life and let real estate pay for it. Very, very good. Very good. So, and before we get any further, we want to kind of sum up this show and then we'll do Fire Round and Famous Four after that. So why don't we just kind of wrap up your thoughts today?

I'm going to let you kind of start with that, David. All right. So here's what I want to talk about. One of the reasons that it's really good to invest with no and low money down is not just because you can invest sooner and not just because of the risk that it's reducing. It's also because it impacts what we call the velocity of money. That's a fancy economic term that has to do with how quickly the same dollar is used to buy several products. It's usually used by the federal government when monitoring things like the GDP of the country to figure out like how quickly are dollars moving through the economy. But you can take that same principle and apply it to your own specific financial life. Okay. I want my velocity of money to be very fast. I want to earn a dollar,

save a dollar, invest that dollar, get it back and then go invest it again. And the reason is when I look at the whole process of earning wealth through real estate, let's take the Burr strategy, for example, you make the majority of money when you buy, then you might add a little bit of money during the rehab if you do it well, like adding bedrooms, adding bathrooms, stuff like that. But the majority of it is when I bought that deal, in the deep dive example that I gave, I made most of my money when I paid $45,000 for that house. I spent, what was it, $8,500 on the rehab, and I probably added some value to it through the rehab as well.

But I made $30, $30,000 when I bought the deal, right? So if I know that, I want to keep buying as many deals as I can because every purchase is what's adding to my net worth. That's where I'm growing my equity. The faster I do it, meaning the quicker I get my money back and reinvest it, the quicker I can build wealth. These strategies allow you to take the same dollar and invest it faster and faster, making it less expensive with every single acquisition because of things like house hacking, paying for a lot of your bills. Most of us are used to thinking in terms of how do I reduce risk? How do I reduce risk? And that's good. You should be thinking of it. It's not the only thing you should be thinking about.

You should also be thinking about how do I build equity? How do I build relationships? How do I streamline this process, right? So what we're talking about helps in both areas. That's one of the reasons that we're like so passionate about. This is why you should do things like that. It also forces you to find better deals. Okay.

It's cheating if you just go put $80,000 down on a house and then you tell people, I bought my first property. It cash flows and you're making $200 a month, right? The return on your money is like 3% ROI or something. It's nothing to brag about, right? it's don't get yourself fooled into thinking because you saved a bunch of money or made a bunch of money and then it went and invested it you're a great investor what we're talking about forces you to really find the best deals because you're trying to get in and out with none of your own money

so it really like makes you dial down and narrow down exactly what you're looking for and get a really good deal so you can move on to the next the last thing i want to leave you with is combining the strategies and brandon's tool belt analogy so you've got a hammer you've got a screwdriver you've got a, give me another tool, Brandon, you're a handy guy. A tape measure. There you go. That could be like a BP analyzing tool, right? Like one of the calculators is your tape measure.

But you're combining all these strategies together, like I mentioned earlier, to make them all work for you. So one of the popular ways I see this done is someone uses hard money to buy a property. Then they refinance that hard money with private money that they started raising, but they couldn't get it all together before they had to buy the deal. So they use hard money to buy the deal. They raise private money. They pay off the hard money lender and reduce their interest rate.

Then when the property is finished, they go refinance it into a conventional loan with like a portfolio lender. And they pay back all the private money. And they started off at a 12% interest rate and ended up at a four and a half percent interest rate and added a ton of equity to the deal. Right. So if you understand all three aspects of it, you can make those work for you and buy deals that other people can't. I call that creative combinations in the book on investing with no and low money down. And I think I tell the story in the book. I'm not sure.

but basically when I bought my first apartment complex, my 24 unit that I owned back, I sold it now. But when I bought that, what I did is I, let's say, I used five different creative strategies combined together. So at first I, you know, I found this great deal. I talked with the owners. I had no money to get into this thing. So they let me do what was called a lease option, which we're not talking about today, but it's in the book if you want to know more about it. We used a lease option, a triple net lease option for me to be able to take over the property, essentially. Now, I had to rehab the property. So I had to fix it up, right? So I did a lot of my own work on fixing it up because I didn't have any money. So that's one thing I did have, right?

But I needed rehab money. So I brought in a partner to fund the actual cost of the rehabs. I was if I had to hire out, some of the materials, whatever. So I brought in a partnership. The partner, though, didn't have the money to fund the deal. So we used a home equity line of credit that the partner had on their house to fund the deal. And then I refinanced the property into a normal commercial loan later on. So I bird it.

So let's see. What do I got? So I got burr. I got the partnership. I got the He lock. I got the trip on that lease option. And what was the fifth one in there? Lease option.

I got lease option. Burr, the home equity line of credit, the partnership. Oh, and seller financing. At the end, when I went, although I did a lease option to start with, six months later, we converted that and I refinanced it first into seller financing. So then I actually owned it. The reason, because they owned it free and clear. So now for two years, I paid them.

and then I refinanced it into a commercial loan. So I actually held it for two years as a seller finance deal so I could build equity. And then when I go to the bank, it was just a straight refy that I took out 100 grand. Now, if I would have gone to the bank with a lease option, I would have had to still put down a 25% down payment. But because it was a seller, and because of seller financed, I had the equity. They just did a straight refinance and a cash out refi. Anyway, the reason a lot of you guys had no idea what I was just talking about there, right? And that's fine.

I do have a book. If you want to kind of go into detail on that, a 99 cent Kindle book. It's on Amazon called like how I bought a 24 unit for no money down or no almost no money down. Just go to Amazon type in Brandon Turner. Go look for it. Like honestly, it's like 99 cents and check it out and then leave a review because it, I don't know. I want more people to read that book because it just basically walks you through this idea. And you don't need, you don't even need to understand what I just said there, right? What you need to understand is that the best creative deals are put together by a variety of

methods. And just the more tools you have in your tool belt, the more you understand how those tools work, the more projects you can take on. Drops the mic. There you go. With every step of the way, all five steps, you put yourself in a better position than you're at the step before. And rather than saying, I need to go in there and chop this tree down with one swing, otherwise I can't do it.

You said, nope, I'll just make five very strategically executed swings that will bring down the whole tree. And that's what we want people to see. Most of the time when someone comes to Brandon or I and says, hey, I want to invest in real estate, but I can't because of this reason. They're trying to solve that problem with one. decision or one phone call or one move where it's really not something you can do, but if you broke it down into a bunch of little steps and strategically put a plan together,

you could take it down working backwards. And you need the methods we're talking about to be able to do that. The last way that I'll bring up like a creative combo, again, that's a great term, is using hard money, but when the hard money lender says you need this much skin in the game, that's fine. Go find a private money lender to represent your skin in the game. You can still be in for none of your money. You've combined several different methods and you can use other people's money to bring a deal down. And then once you've done a couple of them, you can have your own money, or you have at least a track record to maybe the hard money lender doesn't ask for it. And then let's say the private money lender goes and tells all their friends. Yeah, I invest with Brandon Turner and I make

this much money. And they go, holy cow, I want to do that too. You get enough of those. You don't need a hard money lender anymore. You can borrow money at 7% instead of 12% and no points instead of three points. And now you're in a better position. You get enough of those private money people together. you've eliminated hard money. Now you can take down bigger deals. Maybe you get into commercial investing. The possibilities are endless if you keep making small progress with like a repeated effect. Yeah, I love that.

I want to end this segment with one more like a quote. I guess you could call it even though I'm going to come up with top of my head. So I'm going to butcher it. But in rich dad, poor dad, Kiyosaki has this great line that says essentially, you know, I don't know if he says it right, quite poor people. But basically, poor people say I can't afford it. rich people ask how can I afford it or how do I afford it, right? And that changed my life when I heard that.

And that's just kind of summarized the creative finances about asking how. It's about asking how. So like when you have a deal in front of you, ask how? How do I figure this out? How do I make this work? How do I put this together? How can I try this thing or this thing? It goes back to the common, the creative combinations.

It goes back to knowing a lot about a lot about a lot of different strategies, the toolbox analogy. It's about networking, about knowing people. The more people you know, the more chance you can put together these things. And about finding good deals. Because if you find a good deal, you will find a way to fund it. So go out there, find good deals, network, connect with people, learn, grow, bring the knowledge, bring the hustle. And you all can do it. So yeah, there you go. There's your encouragement for the day. And with that, let's shift gears here and head over to the world famous fire round. It's time for the fire round. All right, let's get to the the fire round. These are the questions that come direct out of the bigger pockets

forums. I almost said the line for the famous four there. These are the questions that come out of the bigger pockets forums and we're going to fire them at each other. We're in a little duel today. Maybe we call this instead of a duet. It's a dual. It's a podcast duel. Much better. A podcast duel. That's much more manly sounding than a podcast duet. But hey, I was in show choir in high school. I can do a duet. So I'm going to turn around, put my back to yours, like 10 pieces and then you're turn around and you're going to fire at me. Yeah, all right, go walk.

Yeah, here they never understood about that. Let's say you're to duel with somebody, right? Like, Aaron Burr and who was it, Thomas Jefferson? No, Aaron Burr and somebody. Anyway, they turn around, take ten steps and turn around and shoot each other, right? Would you not take nine steps and turn around and shoot? Or ten steps way faster? Yeah.

Run ten steps. I guess it's like the gentleman thing, but like, man, gentleman ship goes out the window when you're going to die. Like when there's a gunnet, you're like, I would take one step. I would be like, all right, let's boom. And I was like, while talking, I would shoot the person and then be done with it. Because they turn their back to the person trying to kill them. First of all, terrible police tactic.

We would never encourage that, right? And then second of all, what's the worst that happens? Oh, like throw a penalty flag, 15-yard penalty. You didn't take 10 paces. Yeah, exactly. You're in the penalty box. You're alive. Yeah, you're alive.

You're good. Anyway, okay, so let's do the duel here. David, how do I find accredited investors if I want to raise money from them? How do I find accredited investors? That's a good question, but you've got to be careful with it. I'm not a lawyer, but I know that there are rules that are set in place by the Securities Exchange Commission that monitor what the rules are for actually looking for people to raise money from. Now, accredited investors don't fall under all of those same rules, and that's why people tend to chase them.

However, accredited investors usually have higher expectations, so you have to give up more of the deal. You have to understand that's what you're doing when you're getting into this. My strategy for finding accredited investors has been, what's the best word I should use here, like showcasing myself or building up a reputation as the expert. So I hold meetups. I host this podcast. I write books. I produce content. I write articles. I do stuff that would let people see like, well, this guy must know his stuff if he's doing X, Y, Z. Then I get them in front of them and I talk and I prove I know my stuff, right? So once they hear me, they're like, okay, I trust David. Then they look into me and they see that everyone around me says, yeah, he's a stand up guy. He's not going to lose your

money. He's not going to rip you off. They're way more likely to invest in me. My, actual conversations with them are very short, five or ten minutes long, rather than me needing to spend hours to convince this person why they should let me borrow their money. I think that that's a better strategy is you set yourself up using some of the examples that Brandon Turner gave earlier for how you showcase your deals and make yourself like a thought leader in the space and let them come to you because just like you need money for deals, they need a return on their money. They're probably not getting very much of anything on it as it sits in the bank. So it's much better to make sure like when you walk around, I guess the analogy would be you want a tool belt

that's really impressive. They're just like, whoa, that guy looks like Al Borland over there. He's just got a tool belt full of all kinds of different tools. I want to work with that guy.

He looks like he could build an entire house. He's not just a plumber. He's not just an electrician. And there's kind of like, you're the PhD of real estate and everybody respects you more. That's really good. One thing I'll add to that too is

when you become an accredited investor yourself, in other words, when you become a more higher net worth, you earn good income, you probably are going to start hanging around with more people who are of that as well. So I'll give an example.

So we talk a fair amount on the show about this group or tribe that David and I are both part of. In fact, the reason we became good friends is through this group called Go Abundance. And essentially, to be in Go Abundance, you pretty much have to be an accredited investor. But by being, like, once we're part of that group, like, David and I could raise money in a heartbeat from a lot of these guys because they're there. They have money. They have money. They're in their group, right? Like, they trust us because we're in the same group.

We're in the same peer group. So, I mean, you don't have to join, you know, Go Abundance to be able to get that. But the idea being when you're surrounding yourself with people, you're not begging for money from people. You're investing with other people that are the same level of view, that same income. So I would encourage you, go out there and do what you got to do. Hustle, work hard at your job, become an accredited investor yourself, which basically means $250 a year and income, whatever it is, or a million dollar net worth. There's some rules there.

But anyway, that I would just throw out in there. And that's because rock stars, no rock stars. I don't know why I didn't think to say that. RKR. RKR. Become a rock star. You will hang out with rock stars. Life will get a lot easier when you're playing with people that make really good music.

There you go. All right. All right, Brandon, your turn. I hope you've taken your 10 paces because here it comes. I have a prospective tenant that has an emotional support animal, which happens to be a pit bull. Do I have to accept it? All right, good question. So, of course, I'm not a lawyer.

We can preface every question with that, really. But the key with this, okay, everybody knows if you're a landlord right now, you know that the emotional support animal thing is really obnoxious, right? because there are legitimate people out there who legitimately need an emotional support animal. I 100% agree with that, right? And there are a lot of people who go out and buy it for $2,999, a piece of paper on the internet that says they can have an emotional support animal. There are doctors that write notes faster than like Prozac, right? So like they love this idea of tennis, love the idea of taking their pit bull, their dog,

their cat, their moose, whatever, and calling it an emotional sport animal because they know that legally, we can't, as landlords, we can't ask things like, why do you need that emotional support animal? We can't refuse to rent because of that emotional support animal. That said, the key there is because of that support animal. You can refuse to rent that tenant for any other reason. Just because they have an emotional support animal does not mean they're guaranteed to be accepted to your property, right?

That's oftentimes people get confused about that. You just can't deny them because of that. So what like there's a good, okay, this is going to sound like a really big generalization and people are going to yell at me later. But if you have a pit bull, there's a decent chance. There are other things that I can deny you for. Like, again, I know there are people who own pit bulls that are fantastic people. But I also know there are a lot of people that own pit bulls or other nasty like breeds of dog. I love actually pit bulls.

I really do love them. But there are people who own them that have a lot of other problems in their life too, right? Like that I can deny them for. Oh, you have a felony. yeah, we don't take people with felonies. So you can almost always find other reasons to deny people that have nothing to do with that. That said, I actually have no problem generally with pets and properties. I just charge a little more from, which you cannot do with emotional support animals.

You can't charge more. But people with pets or emotional support animals tend to stay a little longer because they know they have trouble getting those. So anyway, that was a long-winded answer to no, you don't have to take them if they have an emotional support animal. But you cannot deny them because of that animal. Be very careful there. Read your laws. Read the landlord tenant acts. Read the federal fair housing.

That's the key though. The federal fair housing, what you can and cannot discriminate against. And be careful because you don't want to end up with a huge mass of fine or jail time from the government. Yeah. And it's not that we don't like people that have pit bulls. Yeah, I love pit bulls. I love people. If somebody's chihuahua bites somebody that sucks, if somebody's pit bull bites somebody that can end a life.

Right. And you have a lot more legal exposure when it was your property because it's typically not the tenant that gets sued. it's the landlord. And that's where this whole thing even comes up before pit bulls, right? Brandon and I are not saying that if you have a pit bull, we don't like you. We don't want to rent to you. We're saying that we don't want to get sued because your dog bit somebody and it created like serious havoc as opposed to like a golden retriever, which you very rarely hear about ever biting somebody, right? It's just the numbers game that we're talking about. You are exposing yourself to much more risk if you rent to someone that has a pit bull. And you were not there to raise that dog, right? People listening to this that are

like, I have a pit bull. What are you trying to say? I don't have a felony. Yeah, that's great. You're good person and you raised your pit bull right. There's a lot of people that were not and they're drawn to pit bulls and you can't control how they raise that dog or if it had been in dog fights when it was younger, if it had been abused and now it's extra defensive. So take off your personal hat for a minute, put on your business hat for a second and think about it. And hear what Brandon's saying is that it's not the pit bull itself. But if it's not the tenant is going to cause you problems, find a reason that isn't the pit bull, which you probably would have found anyways if you were going to deny that tenant, right? There was something that you were going to do. So very, very good.

and smart advice. I like that. So one more thing, just to add on to there, insurance companies, actually, a lot of insurance companies do not allow you to rent to somebody with a certain breed of, it's not just pit bulls, of course,

we're using generality there, but it's like pit bull, German Shepherd, and there's a few other ones on the list. Dovermans. Yeah, there's a few on the list. The idea being dangerous breeds that statistically have a higher likelihood of causing problems. So here's a really fun dilemma for landlords, right?

is your insurance company will not allow you to have a pit bull, yet a tenant who is perfectly qualified. You cannot get rid of them. You cannot deny them because, I mean, they're really like perfect. They get a pit bull as an emotional support animal. What do you do? I have no idea. That's a hard thing, right? Because your insurance company will not do it.

I would actually love to ask a lawyer that question. But I think even lawyers have generally, the few that I have asked things like that to, they just always say the same thing. Find another way to disqualify them. But what if you're already existing tenant? gets a pit bull as emotional support animal. And your insurance company freaks out. You may have to just find more expensive insurance.

And that just sucks, but that's the world we live in and that's whatever. So anyway, a lot of conversation, a lot of, actually if you go in the bigger pockets forums, you'll find a ton of threads on this topic. One of the hottest topics for landlords today. And it's not just landlords. It's like you go to Walmart and they have a sign there. That's like, you know, we allow, you know, registered license, you know, service animals or whatever and not emotional support.

They haven't actually spelled out pretty well because they have very expensive lawyers and they can handle the lawsuit. So they figure out the way around that. And at some point, the government's going to have to step in and draw some lines because right now it's just too gray. That was the longest fire round answer in history. But moving on, David, am I crazy to self-manage a property, a rental property from afar? So I'm sure this question is coming to us because I wrote the book on long distance investing. And here's how I would answer it. When you're considering management services, they are doing two things for you.

One, they are handling the Xs and O's of actually managing a property, collecting a rent, advertising it for rent, fixing stuff when it goes wrong. Two, they're acting as an advisor to you. And in my book, I spell out that's actually the more valuable aspect of what they offer is the advice that I get from them regarding where I'm investing and what strategies I should be using there. I don't think you should be managing from afar unless you used to live in that. that area or you have intimate knowledge about it so that you don't need the advice of somebody

that's boots on the ground for you. If you're like me and you live in California, you're just investing in other states because they make more financial sense for you. You can, you can do it from afar. It'll be more work, right? You can go find a handyman. You can put a lockbox on the house that they can use to get in and out. You can find eviction services and find someone to handle that for you. Like, you can piece together everything you need if you're a total cheap scheme. You don't want to pay a property manager company, but you can't replace that advice that they were giving you. should I buy in this neighborhood? What should I charge for rent over here?

What should I expect from the tenants? Is everyone going to have a pit bull or is nobody going to have a pit bull, right? That's why I like using management companies because I don't want to put all that burden on myself to solve all these problems and figure this out and take all this risk because if I fail, I'm probably not going to want to keep investing and I'm going to lose a lot of money over the long term that I could have made. So you're not crazy to self-manage from afar if you don't need advice and you want to do all this work and putting stuff together.

I would advise you that if you're worried about spending $100 a month or something or less on management, you're trying to save that money, challenge yourself to find a way to do better at your job so you can get a raise of like $2 or $1 an hour, something that would equal $100 a month, right? It's probably much easier for you to step the game up in other areas of your life to save that money than save it on a property manager. That's a great point. Great point. All right. Last question.

All right. Brandon, is it the consensus that in a rehab, you should always use white capital. This is funny. If the property already has usable cabinets that aren't white, is it always worth it to have them painted? Yes, 100% of all houses should have white cabinets. In fact, we should make this a law. I'm going to be contacting our president and asking for a law on white cabinets. No, okay, so white cabinets, they do look great, right? They're kind of timeless. Everyone likes the white cabinets typically. They're definitely not required. In fact, I just had a rental. I did a burr recently. Well, I'm in the middle of a burr right now. We've got to refinance it here soon. where I took it and I painted the cat.

I went on Pinterest and my wife and I just went through Pinterest and we're looking at cool pictures of cabinets. We found that was like this dark, like navy blue. And it looks super cool. So we went and found the exact color, painted it, looks super cool. So I would say you want your cabinets to be like modern. Doesn't mean modern, doesn't mean white.

Go on Pinterest, look for some cabinets. White works though. If you want to do white, easy. But if it doesn't need to be painted and it's in a perfectly fine color already, it would be kind of silly to go paint it white. just because you heard other people say renters want white cabinets. If you got like a nasty like 1999 oak orange oak cabinets like I did in my house that I just moved, like the live and flip I did.

Yeah, we painted those cabinets a cream color. It wasn't even pure white. I actually like cream cabinets way better than white. Like just a little off white and it looks way better. And that took, you know, I don't know, it took a hire, I hired a high school girl to come over and paint for a week and she painted my cabinets for like 500 bucks. So easy and she did a good job. Go Brandy.

All right. Well, with that, that's the end of the fire round. Let's get to today's famous for. Before we get today's famous for, let's hear a quick word from Mindy and what's going on this week on the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. Hi, Brandon. You won't believe who I was able to snag as a guest this week. It's you.

And some guy named Josh who claims he founded Bigger Pockets. Scott and I turned the tables on you and Josh this week and put you in the hot seat. We get a bit of your money story, some tips and tricks that you've learned from your decades in the business and even some fun Harry Potter. references. What does Harry Potter have to do with real estate investing? You'll have to listen on Monday. Okay, go to the Famous Four. All right. Thank you, Mindy. And with that, let's get to today's famous four. These are the same four questions we ask every guest every week. We're going to alter them a little bit because you guys have all heard me and David's answers before. So first question,

David, any recent real estate books you've read recently? Anything that's recent real estate books you've read recently? Recent. Yeah, it was by the addundant author of redundancy. Thanks. Yeah. Any good books you registered recently on real estate? I just read Emerging Markets by Dave Lindahl. And it was a little bit like salesmany, like you could tell. He's trying to get you to sign up to do his courses. But there was good information in it. And more importantly, it really hammered home the point that like what we're talking about, you want to find deals that have equity in them. You want to create equity out of your deal. He talks about that specifically by looking for markets that are likely to be appreciating and value and growing there. and what he calls the path of progress

so that you could create equity when you buy. And he talks about the Burr strategy a little bit in the book before it was called Burr. So I like it because I'm a long distance investor, and I feel like when you combine the principles in his book with the principle in mind, you kind of get that sweet spot of, I'm going to go invest in another state

and I'm going to pick an area that's likely to be growing more so that I can get my money out faster. All right, that's good. I'm going to throw in an old one that I read a long long time ago, but it really inspired me. I thought it was really good. It was called A Million Bucks by 30. by Alan Corey,

who Alan Corey might even be, he actually listens to this podcast or emailed me a few years ago and said he was listening, which is kind of cool too. But yeah, a million bucks by 30. It was just like the story of this guy named Alan Corey who went out there and used real estate to make a million dollars.

And it's, he's also like he was on like Jerry Springer. And like he did like just crazy stuff. It was a really fun read. Anyway, I found out my local library. A million bucks by 30 by Alan Corey. Pretty entertaining read.

And he is actually now a real estate agent. It's somewhere in the U.S. I can't remember where I think Atlanta. Santa maybe. Anyway, all right. So business book. You read any good business books lately you want to throw out? Yeah, I'm reading one right now called Mindset by Carol Dweck. A lot of people have probably heard of it. It's pretty popular book. And I just got to a part where she's talking about, well, basically the book talks about the difference between like a fixed mindset and a growth mindset. Whereas fixed mindset people think like I was born this way. This is just who I am.

So if I'm not good at something, I shouldn't do it. And growth mindset people think like I can, I will become whatever I want to become. I will adapt to any environment that I'm in and why it's better to have a growth mindset and people that have them tend to do better in life because they filter things that come their way like failure. And instead of saying I failed, they say, I just learned a bunch of new stuff. I'm more likely to succeed the next time as opposed to I just failed at this. That's why I shouldn't try anymore. I shouldn't do anything new. Right. And she said something that really, really struck me. She said there's two kinds of leaders. There's people who say, this is my plan. You go execute it, which I realize right away, that's usually how I am. This is

what we're going to do. How do I get an employee that will go execute that plan? And there are leaders that say, you are very talented. This is the general direction we want to go. I want you to come up with a plan for how to get us there and encourage and grow those people so that they're not dependent on the leader whenever something goes wrong to run back and say, okay, it didn't go according to plan. Now, what do I do? And I think it's much harder to develop talent that way, but I was convicted and realized this is what I need to be doing. I need to be taking the people that are in my world and helping them to become better versions of themselves so that they can grow within the world that I'm trying to create and help us all grow. So that being said, I made up my mind, the David Green team is hiring. I want to find

people that believe that they're talented individuals who are not happy in the job they have or believe they have more to offer and they want to get together and figure out like how would they be able to help. And I want to have the focus on how do I grow you as a person with what I know to help you reach your goals so that you can help me reach mine in the process. And it's a much different way of thinking, but I'm absolutely like convicted, this is the way it needs to be because it's too hard if I'm trying to control everything and then having other people do it my way. So if anyone's interested in that, please reach out. We're putting together masterminds to talk with people about it. And then Brandon, you being my friend, you can hold me accountable to like if I'm doing that or if I'm not doing that

because it's hard. That sounds good. That sounds good. Hey, what's Krista's email? Your assistant, Krista, what's her email? So the best way to email is actually going to be Alan, the guy that talked earlier. It's A-L-L-A-N dot R-O-S-S-O at Outlook.com, Alan. He'll put you together with us and get you scheduled for the next mastermind we're having if people want to get together and talk about how we can help each other. Nice. Very cool. I'm going to throw out there the book that you and I both absolutely love. It is not a business book, but I believe it applies to business.

And that is a book called Wild at Heart. So Wild at Heart changed, I think, both of our lives quite a bit. It's a book about, like, discovering the heart of a man. So if you're a woman, you can still read this book. but they actually have a version for women. I think it's called captivating heart or something like that. Anyway, yeah, yeah. While at heart was a book, just about like how we, as men, and again, there's a woman

version, but I'll speak for the one I read, have like this wound or this hole in our heart that society tells us to be one way. And that's not how we were made to be. That's not how we are like our spirit or our minds are wired. And it's very much like, you read that book and you're like, I'm going to go on and go hunt. Or I'm going to go and like hike a mountain right now. or I'm going to go like take down a blue whale on a ship.

I don't know. You just like feel like so fired up to go out and like be a man, you know, to use kind of a cliche, right? But I mean that in like in the good sense. To be in it like, I want to go be an amazing business later, an amazing husband, an amazing father. And that book really impacted my life a lot. Well, I'll take you one step further.

If you're having a hard time being comfortable with some of the things that you just mentioned, the book helps you understand why that may be, right? Like that's what I loved about it is there's areas where my confidence was lacking. and I was really struggling. And this book helped me pin down exactly why that was and gave me hope that I could build myself out of it and strengthen some of those muscles. And I know there's people that are listening to this,

they heard everything, Brandon and I just said and got all pumped up and they're like, I want it so bad. And then the next thing that came in was this thought that, but you'll never do it. You're not good enough. You're not smart enough, right? This book helps shine light on why that might be

and gives you hope to get out of it. And then for the women that are listening, I think you should read it just because it helps you understand the heart of a man. Like when I read captivating, kind of the woman version of it, I was like, you're kidding me. That's how you guys think. That is so weird. Like, why would you think that way, right? And I know that women must be looking at us the same way. Like, why is he such an idiot? Or why is he doing things that way? That book really

shines a lot of light on what makes men, man and what makes women women. Yeah, in fact, if you look right now, I'm looking through this glass door right next to me and my daughter, Rosie is sitting on the floor playing with her princess castle with these little like Peppa Pig toys and just the cutest little thing, right? Why is she doing that yet when I was her age? I had a sword in my hand, you know, a stick, and I was hitting everybody I could find with it. Like, why are we, why are we that way? You give her the same stick and she like wraps it up in a bed. Yes, exactly. Yeah, there's like, there's like these, the wires in our head work a certain way. And I'm not saying that everybody's the same and whatever. I'm just saying like, yeah, there's these

general like things we fall between. And that book really helps define a lot of that. Now, it is, if you are a completely non-religious person, there's a lot of, there's a lot of of religious overtones in it as a Christian book. So take that if you, you know, don't get offended. But it is fantastic. I would highly recommend it to everybody. So with that, hobbies. David, what you've been doing lately? I just got back from visiting you in Hawaii. That was pretty cool. I've been trying to make more time to exercise more. This might sound corny, but something I've been doing recently is going to movies by myself and paying attention to what in the movie moves me, right? So a lot of superhero movies are kind of cheesy. And as a grown man, I guess.

get teased by people that are like, why are you going to watch these like cartoon superhero type movies like 11 year olds like, well, it's because there's something in that movie that makes me wish I could be that person, right? Or makes me think I have that guy inside me somewhere, but he's buried underneath all this other stuff and trying to isolate what it is about that character or that story or that person that inspired me and then looking to see like, how can I do that in my life? Obviously, I'm not going to turn into the Incredible Hulk, right? But maybe I have like a very strong power inside me that I've been pushing down and I need to let it out, whether it comes to inspiring other people, asking my boss for a raise, asking for more responsibility.

We all have things in life we wish we were doing better. And sometimes those movies can shine a light and help you see for yourself what it is that you're longing for, that you're not pursuing. So even though that sounds corny, that's actually like a hobby that I've been trying to be more purposeful about. Nice. Nice. Very cool. How about you? I've been doing a little bit of surfing. I'll say the other day, I had to get myself. Okay. So I'm I spent last winter in Oahu, the island of Oahu. So Ryan Murdoch and I, who Ryan, we talk about a lot on the show. And in fact, he's going to be one of the guests on either next week or the week after.

He's one of the interviews we did. Anyway, Ryan and I jumped over to Oahu, which we're on Maui now. I jumped over Oahu and spent like 14 hours to see in the entire islands. We did three hikes and we ate shave ice at island snow over in Kailua. And we did all sorts of cool stuff there. So that was a fun little hobby day, I guess. And I got my surfboard, brought it back to the Maui, brought it home. And now I get to go use it today.

Awesome, man. That's it. All right. Last question. What do you think separate successful people from those who give up, fail, or never get started? In creative finance, we're going to say, what separate successful creative finance people from those who don't? The people who succeed are the ones that did what you said when you talked about that Robert Kiyosaki, quote, how do I make this work? The people who fail are the one that want a path that's already laid out and created for them. It is very easy and they don't have to think very much and they just follow it.

The problem is when somebody makes a path that's simple and anyone can walk it, all the opportunity is gone because everybody went before you and they already picked up all the stuff you're looking for, right? Is the people that can forge a new path that have the opportunity because they can find the stuff that other people didn't. I was going to say pretty much the exact same thing. So we'll leave it to that. So if people want to connect with Bigger Pockets, of course, make sure you guys have a free account. It's totally free to sign up for an account of Bigger Pockets. Go to BiggerPockets. And follow Bigger Pockets wherever you can find it.

Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. BP is all over the place. And with that, remember next week, we are launching Josh Dorkin and my new book, How to Invest in Real Estate. You can get it by going to biggerpockets.com slash store. And if you pre-order, remember, you get invited to a special sort of,

what do you call it, webinar Q&A with me and Josh that we're going to talk about real estate and kind of help you along. So with that, I'm super excited for next week's show. You guys are going to love it. It's really fantastic. It's very unique. show something we've never done before. So, and Josh is the host again on that show. So,

and David is actually one of the guests with that. That's all I got. I don't know. And David, you want to take us out? That sounds like a great idea. This is David the man green for Brandon take one step, turn around and fire before he's looking Turner. Signing off. You're listening to Bigger Pockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're here looking to learn about real estate investing, Without all the hype, you're in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from biggerpockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online.

Thank you all for listening to the Bigger Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K. Copywriting is by Calicoe Content, and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www.w.w.com.

The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk. So use your best judgment and consult with qualified advisors before investing. You should only risk capital you can afford to lose. And remember, past performance is not indicative of future results. Bigger Pocket's LLC disclaims all liability for direct, indirect, consequential, or other damages arising from a reliance on information presented in this podcast.

I'm going to be the next.