BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast - The Realistic Path to Wealth: Investing in Real Estate WHILE Working a W2 w/Lawrence Briggs

Episode Date: August 28, 2024

Wondering how to invest in real estate so you can finally quit your job? Then, this episode might surprise you. While most real estate educators online are constantly stressing how you must leave your W2 so you can become a full-time real estate investor, today, we’re going to do the opposite, proving why most real estate investors SHOULD keep their job and let real estate supplement their dreams, instead of becoming their dream. Take it from Lawrence Briggs. He’s an avid BiggerPockets listener who moved to a different city just to invest in real estate. With such passion and drive, you’d think he wants to become a full-time landlord. But the truth is…he doesn’t. His passions go far beyond managing tenants and fixing toilets, so he uses real estate to amplify his lifestyle and protect his finances so that he never HAS to get a job but can choose the exact job he wants to work. Today, we’re talking to Lawrence about balancing your W2 job with real estate investing, why you DON’T need to quit to reach (even a small amount of) financial independence, the side hustle he used to save up for his first rentals, and how he works just a few hours a week managing his real estate portfolio. This is the realistic way to build wealth through real estate, and if Lawrence can go from poverty to multi-unit landlord, you can invest, too! In This Episode We Cover: How Lawrence escaped generational poverty through sacrifice and smart investing  Why Lawrence does NOT want to quit his job for real estate but would do something else instead  Moving to invest in real estate and why your salary-to-home-price ratio matters  The realistic way to spend just a few hours a week managing your rental properties  One super flexible side hustle Lawrence used to make money, learn how to invest, and find properties  And So Much More! Links from the Show Join BiggerPockets for FREE Let Us Know What You Thought of the Show! Invest in Turnkey Rentals with Rent to Retirement or text “REI” to 33777 Enter to Win a Free Ticket to BPCON2024 by Leaving a Positive Review on Apple or Spotify and Sending a Screenshot to BiggerPockets on Instagram Grab Dave’s Newest Book, “Start with Strategy” Property Manager Finder See Dave and Lawrence at BPCON2024 in Cancun! Should You Quit Your 9-5 Job to Become a Full-Time Real Investor? Connect with Lawrence Connect with Dave (00:00) Intro (01:31) BPCon2024 Giveaway! (02:55) Switching Jobs to Invest (11:24) Food Delivery Side Hustle (16:31) I DON'T Want to Quit (18:52) Breaking Generational Poverty (21:34) Dream Job for Investors (26:37) Time Spent Managing His Rentals (31:12) You Don't NEED to Quit (33:55) The Dish Check out more resources from this show on BiggerPockets.com and https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-1010 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email [e-mail]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There's a common narrative in real estate and the broader real estate investing community that you should be trying to quit your job, which don't get me wrong. It's a totally legit goal. And I get the sentiment. You want to be your own boss or maybe you feel like investing and working full time is too much. Well, today we're going to share the other side of this coin. We're going to discuss how to balance a full-time job while pursuing your real estate investing journey. Hey, friends, it's Dave.

Welcome to the show. Today, we're bringing on a very active member of the Bigger Pockets community, Lawrence Briggs, to discuss the topic of balancing a W-2 while starting to invest in real estate. Everywhere I look, Lawrence is there. He's such an active and enthusiastic member of community. He's someone I've had the privilege to meet at Bigger Pockets Conference. I see him on the forums. And it made me want to bring him on the show so we could all learn from him.

Because he's extremely active doing all these different things. things building his portfolio, but he also has professional interests outside of real estate. And so Lawrence and I are going to discuss his path to getting started in real estate investing, why he chose a side hustle that supports his real estate investing journey, how Lawrence saved up enough capital to build a portfolio. And lastly, we'll talk about some tips and tricks that any investor can follow to also balance a full-time job with real estate investing. Before we bring Lawrence on, I have a massive giveaway to announce to you guys. I think it's actually the biggest, maybe like highest dollar value giveaway we've ever done on this podcast.

It is for BPCon. If you haven't heard of it, BiggerPockets does a conference every year. And this year, it's in Cancun, Mexico. And right now, we're going to be giving away a free ticket to the conference. You can win a superior deluxe garden. in a view room. There's a lot of adjectives, but that's the name of the room that you could win. It's for October 6th, 7th, and 8th, 2024, so three nights for up to two adults, and this includes all access to everything. So you get to go to the conference keynotes, the breakout sessions,

the events, the parties, the exhibit hall. It's all inclusive. So you get all of that. All you have to do to apply to win this ticket is to leave a positive review for this show on either Spotify or Apple. Take a quick screenshot of it and send it to the bigger Pocket's Instagram account. If you do that, you will be entered to win. And of course, if you want to just learn more about the conference in general, visit www.biggerpockets.com slash Mexico. So if you're thinking about going, you might as well enter to win. It's a great way to win a free ticket. With that said, let's bring on Lawrence to talk about balancing a W-2 with your real estate portfolio. Yeah. Lawrence, good to see you. Last time I saw you was at BPCon at the gym. Yeah. It was good running into you there. What have you been up to since?

Just managing my rentals and trying to stay afloat while doing it working a 9 to 5. So you work 9 to 5. You are an investor and you're also like a moderator in the bigger pockets community as well. Yes. And so I'm a huge believer of habit stacking. So because I don't like cardio, what I'll do is whenever I'm doing my cardio, I'll hop on a trip. mill and I'll moderate for bigger pockets in the forums and like on Facebook and stuff. That is, that is very impressive multitasking. Actually, my wife was just reading atomic habits. I've never read it, but she was talking about habit stacking as well. Could you just explain that to the audience? So habit stacking is pretty much when you want to accomplish a certain goal.

However, you feel as though you're focusing more on the goal instead of the habit. And what you do is you mix it with something that you would normally do. So if I'm going to be scrolling on the internet, why not just get on a treadmill? You know, if you're going to be watching TV, go to the gym and hop on a bicycle. So it's just mixing something that you really don't want to do, but you needed to accomplish a goal with something that you already do. I'm so glad you brought it up because I think it's going to be very relevant to our conversation today where we're going to be talking all about how to balance real estate investing with

W2 income or full time. It doesn't need to be W2, whatever. working a non-real estate investing job. And this is just one great example of things that you can do to make yourself more efficient. But let's back up for a second, Lauren. So when you first started investing, well, first, how long ago was that? So if you count my primary residence, which I bought in the attention of the mindset of a investor since 2018, but I purchased two rental properties in 2022.

So five to three years. Oh, awesome. Yeah. And have you had the same? full-time job that whole time? Yes, yes. So I actually switch industries. My background is in student housing. So I worked overseeing leasing and marketing for two publicly traded student housing companies. And I had the aha moment where these C-suite people would come and visit. And when they did visit, they were like, hey, Lawrence, you're doing so well. If you continue to do X, Y, and Z,

then, you know, those trips that I'm having, I can have more. And, And the person told me, he said, you're such a creative person. And if you were to be a real estate investor on your own, you could possibly become a multimillionaire. So that made me switch industries. I moved from Austin, Texas to a much rural, affordable market to be able to start investing in real estate. But yes, I've had the same job for those last five years. It was a big change. Okay. So you're still working in student housing, though, full time. No, so I actually worked for the state for the government. Oh, okay. Yeah, so I switched industries. Yeah, so I completely switched industries because where I wanted to start buying properties, there were no student housing properties there. There was nothing for me to be able to do in my particular industry. So it was kind of tough because I had to leave an industry that I did love and enjoy, but you have to, you know, do things that you don't want to do. sometimes to get a different result in life.

Well, good for you. I mean, it's not every, obviously not everyone could just change industries. Not everyone can pick up their life and move to a different place. But can you tell me just a little bit about the decision there? Because it sounds like you liked what you were doing well enough. But you moved and found another totally different career. Do you, would you say that you like what you're doing now full time? I like it.

I don't love it. I'm a huge person that's transparent, but like I said, sometimes you have to do things that you don't want to do to be able to accomplish, you know, and move the needle. You know, if I would have stayed in Austin, Texas, I would have probably had to move 45 minutes to an hour outside of the area anyway to have an affordable purchase price. And so what I was able to do was I moved an hour north of Austin and bought a three bear in one bath house, one night, of an acre. At that time, I bought this for like $67,000 and it's worth like 175 in less than five years. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So you're talking a huge difference here because like 67,000, but like in Austin at that time, the median home price must have been like 400,500,000, something like that. Exactly. Exactly. And so you have these submarkets or these different pocket markets like

Mainer, Texas and different areas that's still about an hour to 45 minutes. At that time, You may have, could have found something for maybe 200, 225. And so whenever I looked at this market because it is a, I'm in a niche market. I'm in a military town. I'm near one of the largest military institutions or installations, which is Fort Hood, Fort Cavas. And for some reason when I came out here, I knew that this market was going to, to pop. What I thought was going to happen in 10 years to 15 years happened in five years,

because November of 2018, I bought the property for $67,000. And then in 2020, it desktop appraised at 175 and it's holding its value now. Wow, that's awesome. Good for you. Do you mind if I ask you? You don't have to tell me the exact numbers, but I'm curious when you moved from Austin to this other market, did your salary decrease? It did decrease.

Buy a lot? By a lot. Okay. Like 35%. Okay, because I'm just trying to do the math in my head where it's like you took a 35% cut in your salary, which must have been scary. Yes. But at the same time, you got a property that may have been like 20% of what it would cost an awesome, like an 80% reduction in what the purchase price is. So when you think about that, and I think this is a really important thing for our audience to remember, if you think about sort of the racial,

of what your income is to what the purchase price of a property is in your area. It sounds like you actually made an upgrade because relative to your income, the properties were still cheaper. Yes, most definitely. I saw it as an increase because I was not living in a marvelous apartment at all in Austin, Texas. I was living in something that was not desirable, 484 square foot, one bedroom and at that time they said that my rent was going to be like $9.50 and my mortgage for this property was like $5.65. Oh, wow. That's great. All right, it's time to take a quick break to hear from our show sponsors, but we'll be back with more from Lawrence Briggs right after this. Running your real estate business doesn't have to feel like juggling five different tools and the

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plan for just $1 with promo code BP 2025. Pro users get it for free because we believe in it. Just sign in through your pro account to get started. Rent Ready helps ensure on-time rent with auto reminders, keeps communication professional and lets you post listings to multiple sites. Check it out at rentready.com slash bigger pockets. That's rent rEDI.com slash bigger pockets. Hey all, welcome back to my conversation with Lawrence Briggs about how to balance your investing with your full-time job. You know, there's a give and take with everything with being a real estate investor. I loved Austin. I had to take a pay cut. I had to leave an industry that I loved. However, I think that everything kind of happened for a reason. Because with that,

with me taking a pay cut, I had to find a side hustle. And that's where I started to elevate my real estate investing. So I had to make ends meet. I started delivering food as a food delivery driver. And at that time, I didn't know what habit stacking was. So what I would do was I would go deliver food. And in my car, I would be listening to. Bigger Pockets, Pockets, mainly the rookie show, because the rookie show had came out like in 2020,

and I was just loving that show because it had resonated with me the most at that time. Oh, for sure. And so what I'll do is I'll get off, you know, work, go do my food deliveries, Monday through Thursday. On Friday, I'll do about 10 to 12 hours. And then on Saturdays and Sundays, I'll do about 16 hours. Still? No, I don't do that. I don't do that.

Okay. Okay. I don't do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I did that in 2019 and 2012. But when I did that in 2022, just part time, I was able to earn $15,000. Wow.

Yes, as well as save an additional like $8,000 from my regular W-2 job. But that was in 2020 and I started looking for deals. And in 2022, it was when opportunity met my preparation because I not only bought one, but I bought two rental properties, six months of each other. With 15% down, all me, I bought one in February of 2022, and then I bought one in July of 22, off market because I was networking while I was delivering food. I was networking with so many people. I was learning the market.

I was like, hey, do you know who owns this? So yeah, just to say all that, yes, back to your information about taking a upgrade in life. Sometimes you have to take a step back to move forward. So I want to just take a step back here and just call out two to, different strategies that Lawrence has used for working W-2 and investing at the same time. So one was to move to a market where there is a better relationship between the income you can generate and the price of rental properties, meaning that you can probably buy more properties quickly. And I know that not everyone wants to uproot their lives. There are a lot of different

factors in there. But that is a viable option for some people who want to. to be doing that. I was just talking to Henry Washington about this strategy the other day. The second one is that you brought on, you know, you started doing a side hustle in addition to your W-2. And now, can you just tell me a little bit about why that was your philosophy? Because I run into a lot of people who say, real estate is my side hustle. You know, maybe they would go into wholesaling or become an agent. Why did you choose? to deliver food to earn more income rather than a real estate-specific side hustle. Yeah, of course.

Well, the very first thing was that I knew I wanted to invest in my market. And so it was an easy way to drive for dollars. Like, oh, if something came up a property, I'm like, oh, yeah, like, that's definitely a no for me because I've delivered there in the morning, afternoon, the night. Wait, so you were driving for dollars listening to the rookie podcast and earning money at the same time? It's triple habit stacking. Oh, man, that's awesome. My model was, my model was pretty much I delivered to doors to own doors. Oh, I love that. That's so great. Did you trademark that? I should. I need to go trademark that. But yeah, so that was something that I,

I wanted to have, I wanted to be able to learn the market. I wanted something that was flexible, because when you're doing that, it's a 1099. So you can do it whenever you want to. You can take break. breaks whenever ever needed. And then also, like you said, I can have it stack. I was able to listen to the podcast and I was able to network with different people in areas because if I delivered to a place, I'll ask someone, hey, that house is kind of vacant. Do you know like the only that or? Yeah. So yeah, that was why. Oh, that's brilliant. Honestly. And just for anyone who doesn't know what driving for dollars means, it's basically just a way of trying to identify potential property off-market deals that you might be interested in. And sometimes people drive around and check

things off a list and say, you know, go down a block and identify a vacant property or a place that looks like maybe there's some deferred maintenance on, contact the seller. So I was like Lawrence just took advantage of, you know, driving around and trying to identify property. So so that's super cool. Now, Lawrence, I want to sort of set the stage here because I think you're making some great points about how alternative non-real estate income can. can really fuel your real estate ambitions. Do you have any ambition to quit and go full-time as a real estate investor? No, I don't.

Really? Okay. Just like that. Yeah, no. Why? Because I have a few dream careers and they don't involve being a full-time real estate investor. I'm a huge creative person.

So like some of my dream jobs would be to own like a media company. write TV shows. Oh, cool. Work for a prop tech and be like a CMO whatsoever. So no. And for me, and I always have to make a disclaimer, because I have a decade in working for student housing companies, I felt like I was doing real estate full of time. So for me, of course, if anyone knows of my journey, my first passion for even investing in real estate is to break generational poverty in my family, to leave something that's beyond me whenever I am dead. know, leave a legacy. So that's one of my main, honestly, reasons. And then two, to be a face for,

to combat negative connotations about people from poverty or low income and be able to know that someone like myself is very tangible. I'm not a caricature. I'm not a person on TV. I'm a real life human being that's doing real life things. But no, to answer you a question, I would not quit my job to be a full-time real estate investor. What I'm doing, now actually is I'm preparing in 2025 to be able to go out and seek my passion job. Oh, that's so cool. Good for you. Thank you.

I've stabilized my real estate portfolio from my liking, the number of doors for me. You know, I've been frugal and I feel as though, you know, upcoming year, if opportunities present themselves to me, then I'll go after one of those dream. careers. Super cool, man. Yeah, because I'm like real estate is going to pay off 30 years from now, you know, I don't even live off the cash flow. I have it. I don't live off it. So it's just, yeah. Well, I want to get back to that in just what second. But Lawrence, you do have a really interesting personal story. Can you give us just the quick version of your background and, you know, how you grew up? Yeah, of course. So I was erased by a single mother. She worked about three jobs.

She had up to a 10th grade education, and it was me and my sisters. She worked as a janitor in hospitals, and that's how she supported us. And so being from poverty has a negative connotation. You know, that's why I was at first cautious about ever telling my story because someone can say, oh, well, like your mom was lazy or this and that. And I'm like, no, my mom had to do what she could with the level of education that she had, with the level of finances that she had. My mom's is 70 years old.

There was no type of bigger pockets around, you know, when she was knowing anything about financial literacy. And I'm the only one in my family who knows a financial literacy, who understands it. And so that my background is kind of like my biggest why. Like that's my driving factor that, you know, gets me up because there's going to be things in real estate investing. that's not beautiful, you know, I'm very transparent. There's ups and downs. Yeah, there's ups and downs. Yeah, there is. There's ups and downs with real estate investing, whether it's, you know,

buying a property, whether it's dealing with tenants. And so I knew that if I wanted to see change in the world, then I could not be a hypocrite and say, okay, well, why is there not someone from the projects of New Orleans telling their story as a real estate investor. And it's like, okay, well, Lawrence is you. Like, you need to go and be this voice. And I don't want to be anyone's role model because I'm a real model. I'm not perfect. But it was hard, you know, while other kids were learning how to stop, drop and roll from a

fire, I was learning how to run to a windowless bathroom to dodge gunshot. as a kid, you know. So those moments or those reals of my childhood sometimes play in my mind and it gets me up and it say, you know what? Don't give up, Lawrence. Keep going. Well, you clearly have turned a really challenging situation into something so beneficial for yourself and your family. It's very admirable and clearly you've developed quite a drive from your personal situation. I commend you for it. Thank you. So I want to return to something you mentioned before because I think it's a narrative that is so ignored in real estate investing. And it's something I think we share a belief on, which is that real estate investing doesn't have to be the goal. Like, you don't have to

become a full-time investor. In fact, I think real estate investing can be a way to support other professional interest, right? Like, for me, I got started and I, you know, I got started before I had a career I really liked. And then a couple years into my real estate investing journey, I was like, hey, I want to go back to grader at school and get a degree in data analytics because I'm weird and like that stuff. I know that's not what a lot of people would choose, but I did. And real estate investing sort of allowed me to take that risk because, you know, tuition's expensive. I took on loans, you know, like I, you know, but because I had that supplementary income, I felt emboldened to make other career decisions. Is that sort of like a similar thing that you're thinking about as

you consider a career pivot next year? Yes, of course. Yes, because, you know, unfortunately in this economy, there are so many people who are getting laid off. And I remember being laid off before and I owned nothing like, but my car, which I was thankful for. But, you know, even if, you know, like my job is doing layoffs and I'm like, okay, well, if I get laid off, I'll just move out my current house and turn into a rental. Now I got three rental incomes and I'll be a no-med because I have options. Right. Exactly. I'll go move by my mama and rent out my three bear house because it gives you those options. So yeah, I would. not cry like a baby if I got laid off this time around. Well, I'm curious because, you know,

we're talking about sort of how to use W2 income to grow your career. Like, when you think about your dream career, are there things about the full-time job that you look for to better support your real estate investing? Or you're just like, I'm going for this purely out of passion? It just depends. You know, of course, you look at like PTO, like flexibility. you know, like my current job at the state, I get so much time off and I've utilized holidays to like do door dashing when that was like my go-to thing to fund real estate. And so I would say, one, it will be overall now the passion with the income, you know. And like I said, if be it, sometimes you have to unfortunately take pay cuts or, you know, do tradeoffs. But

this go around, it's definitely going to be passion. And I'm always a frugal person. I always like to live way below my means. Yeah, seems like you've really accomplished that and have been able to create a really good savings rate, even though you took a pay cut, you're able to save enough money to keep buying rental properties. But I want to underscore for everyone listening, I think flexibility might be one, I don't know, maybe not the number one, but one of the top things to look for in a W-2 job, like at bigger pockets, you know, we have a lot of investments.

I don't work in the office anymore, but when I did, you know, we'd always have people be like, oh, I got to run out and, you know, go meet a tenant or I got to go to, you know, we always had a culture that was very supportive of real estate investing. Obviously, he would expect that. But that's something I think I highly recommend people look for. And then the other thing, I don't know if you consider this, but something people might not know is that this structure legally of what you do full time does matter a bit for real estate investors. If you get a W-2 job, why we always say W-2 is because that is more lendable.

Yes. Banks like W-2 jobs. Because it's more of a contract, it's more predictable. And so they are more willing to lend to people who have a W-2 job. Whereas a 1099, which is the tax form for contractors, is not as easy, right? It's like if you're a contractor, you might be making just as much money, but banks don't like that. So it's something for our audience to consider if you are working a full-time job, which is most of us. And using that full-time job to fund your real estate, those are two things you may want to look for as you search for your next job or current job, whatever. Yes, I would definitely say whatever job I would not do be an independent contractor. No offense to people who are, but it would definitely be a W-2. So I can continue to scale.

And I find it funny because I have a friend who was making way more money than me. And he had a, you know, contract job. But banks love me because I have the W-2. It can show that I have, you know, a paycheck coming in. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So tell me about your portfolio now. How much time do you spend on your portfolio, let's say, every month?

15 to 20 hours, if that, it's normally like maybe two to, three hours a week. But I always tell people you have to prepare yourself because there are different stages in my portfolio where I have to put more time into it. So I always look at being a self-managing landlord. It has three stages. You have the leasing stage, which for me, that stage is the most time-consuming because sometimes I have to give up weekends to do tours and, you know, screen tenants. applications and respond to prospects and because I'm in a military town, a good amount of my prospects or out of the country. So I have to, you know, do, you know, nocturnal type leasing. Yeah. So sometimes I have to do nocturnal. Hey, if I have to get up at 3 a.m. to talk to somebody

that's deploying from another country to make this lease work, I'm going to do it. And it's great because that's a competitive advantage because most companies are not going to do that. They're going to say, hey, you need to communicate with us between nine and five. of whatsoever. So the leasing stage, the operational stage, which is what I am in right now whenever I have tenants. And that's the least time consuming. I use a property manager application on my phone. I have an extremely strong onboarding process. So my tenants are aware of things that they need to do. I follow my policies and procedures to a T. The only time they're usually seeking out me directly is if it's an emergency. Other than that, they know how to pay their rent through the portal. They know how to

submit maintenance requests. And then the third stage will be the turnover stage, which is when you have a tenant leaving. The only thing that I do is the cleaning. I leave everything up to contractors and I pay them well to prepare properties. And so like I said, right now, whenever I'm in the operational stage of my portfolio, it's about 15 to 20 hours a month and like three to five hours a week, if that. And I do it all from my phone. That's amazing. It's honestly, it almost makes you, like if you have another job, it almost makes you, it forces you to get a little bit more efficient. I have this rule for myself. I wrote this in my book, Start with Strategy, about how I set a time limit for myself.

Like I say, hey, 20 hours a month is my max for how much I'm going to spend on real estate investing because I have a job. I work hard here at bigger pockets. And so, So, yeah, sometimes it's more than that. You know, it's like I'm going to say, like, oh, I'm not going to do that. But when I select deals, you know, when I think about the composition of my portfolio, I keep that time limit in mind and say to myself, yeah, I could do a flip, but I'm not going to, like, that's not going to work with 20 hours a month. You know, that's going to be really time consuming, which is why I focus on investing in, you know,

small multifamilys and doing syndications and doing private lending because it's less time consuming. Do you feel like your approach by going with W2 income and continuing to work limits the number of strategies and tactics that you're able to use as an investor? No, I wouldn't say so because I sent realistic goals for myself and I have to understand where I need to put my time, you know. So this year, I did not buy any properties. This was more of a year of me optimizing my portfolio, looking for any type of holes in my policies and procedures and onboarding as well as trying to provide as much value to my tenants and look for possible capital improvements. So I would say no because you just have to be able to set certain goals

and know exactly where that time needs to go. All right, time for one last quick break, but stay tuned for a deep dish segment. And while we're away, now would be a great time to go leave that review on Spotify or Apple. Don't forget to take a screenshot and send it to the Bigger Pockets' Instagram account

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Lawrence, this is more of a philosophical question, but I'm going to ask you. Why do you think it is that so much of the real estate investing narrative is that you have to quit your job? And instead of the other way around, which is what you're doing, which is sort of like building your real estate portfolio and pursuing an ambitious career at the same time. I'm going to be completely honest and blunt. And I may not be popular for saying this, but I think it's a popular thing that draws attention. And you have to make sure that whoever you are seeking advice from, that you kind to vet the reason why they're saying certain things.

And are there people who truly want to escape their W2? and become a full-time real estate investor? Absolutely, yes, there are people. But the vast majority of the people who have put that information out, that narrative in the last few years, I feel as though it's cap. It's red flags. Yeah, I get it. Like, there definitely are people who want to be moguls, right? Who want to be tycoons.

I have no knocking against that. I think everyone should pursue what they want to do as passionately. and, you know, ambitiously as they want to. But I do think it's really important to try and normalize the idea that, like, most people, I know it doesn't sound like this on social media or maybe even with other guests on this podcast in the past, but most people work full time. And most people like, you know, continue to work full time and use it to support real estate investing in the way that Lawrence has been talking about.

And if you want to move up your retirement date, if you want to be a full-time real estate investor, all the power to you. I'll probably do that at some point in my life as well. But I just think it's nice to know. Like, most people are just, you know, working full time and doing this on the side. That is a very normal and admirable thing to do. It shouldn't be preached. That's like the only option.

I feel like in the past on social media, it's more of like they people say, oh, in order to be successful in real estate, you have to go all in. And that's not, you don't have to. Like, that should not be the only option. There are people like me and other people who are like perfectly fine having a W-2 job and scaling their real estate portfolio to their liking. Absolutely. Well, I love your philosophy, your approach, your hustle Lawrence.

It's incredibly impressive. And truly, I really mean it. It's like this is what Bigger Pockets is all about. Like your mindset and your approach to real estate investing is amazing. I'm super happy to have had this conversation. Thank you so much, Dave. Well, you're not off the hook yet. You know, we have to do this dish section.

We have the deep dish. So I was, I was, uh, warming you up before we get to this last. But we just, uh, these are just, if you guys haven't listened to deep dish, we talk about a topic in depth today. We obviously talked about W2 and how to balance that with real estate. And just as a recap, some of the things Lawrence and I talked about were moving somewhere affordable where your W2 income goes further towards your portfolio, getting a side hustle like Lawrence did, aligning your job and looking for jobs that work well with real estate investing,

like something that's flexible and is W2, setting time limits and building systems are the last ones where you can really sort of streamline it so that you're not working all the time. Like no one wants to get into real estate so they're working every hour of every day. You probably might have to work a little bit more up front. But if you build systems over time, that's a great way to balance W2. So that's our deep for the day. But now we have to dish. We want to know more about you, Lawrence, on a personal level.

So our first question is what is the least favorite job you've ever had? Oh, a dishwasher at a nursing home. Oh. Because I cut my finger. Oh, no. I cut in. And if anyone knows me, they know that I don't like the side of my own blood and I faint it. Oh, no.

Did you leave that job right after? No, not really because I needed the money. I think I left like maybe 60 days after that. Okay. All right. Yeah. So you got out there quick. What is the weirdest interaction you had while door dashing? I would probably say maybe the weirdest thing would be people like answering the door in their unmentibles. Did that happen regularly?

Yes. Really? Yes. I guess. All right. I guess I'm proud that I go to the door fully clothed most of the time. All the time. I definitely do it all the time. Usually like a Sunday morning, if people have had, you know, they've been a. out on Saturday night. But hey, sometimes they were a great tip or so. Oh, good. All right. Then it's fine. Lawrence, do you, when someone asks what you do for a living, do you say real estate investor or do you tell them about your full-time profession? Well, it just depends on the person who

solicits the information. If I'm in a real estate setting, I say that, you know, oh, I am, I'm a realist. I'm a, I used to say I'm a self-managing landlord with a W-2. If it's in a real estate. setting. But if somebody just came up to me like in the gym and I don't know that they're in real estate, I'll say, oh yeah, I work for the state doing X, Y, Z. Yeah. It's so funny. I do the same thing. It depends on the context, right? Yeah, it's curated, you know, because I also don't want to come off as being like, you know, pompous because sometimes when people think of a certain industry that they're not in, they may take it as, oh, you're being Eric and dude. Like, I could care less if you're a real estate investor.

So, yeah, I, yeah, I curate the answer to the setting in the person. Right. Yeah. I always think, like, for someone who's not initiated, if I say real estate investor, I think I work for BlackRock or, you know, some hedge fund when I'm just a normal person who buys a couple of rental properties and has a modest portfolio. All right. Well, that was it.

Lawrence, hopefully those dish questions weren't too hard because we've already got so much about you and your story today. Thank you so much. Oh, I guess my last question for you. It's not a deep dish question is you're going to BPCon this year, right? Yes, I will be at BBConn, 2024 in Cancun and Bigger Pockets. I love y'all because this is my first time going to Mexico. So I'm excited. Yes. I look forward. I know I look forward to seeing so many people there. I will have the privilege of doing a guided networking session about Bigger Pockets. like how to, you know, capitalize networking on the Bigger Pockets website. I will also be on stage with the amazing Ashley Care and Tony Robison. Oh, cool.

Yeah, for the real estate rookie panel. And then I'm also going to be on a landlording panel. So, yeah, I'm excited. Awesome. And just to remind people, we are doing a giveaway where you can win a free ticket to BPCon. You can get a superior deluxe Garden View room for three nights. All you got to do is leave this show a positive review on Spotify or Apple. Take a screenshot of that and send it to the BiggerPockets Instagram account.

If you want to learn more before you do that, you can go to BiggerPockets.com slash Mexico. But if you're interested in attending BPCon, that's a great way to enter to win a free ticket. Sounds like Lawrence is going to be very busy with a lot of sessions. I'm doing three sessions. I'm doing one on macroeconomics, one I'm picking a market. And one, I'm excited about it. I've never talked about this publicly about how to vet operators as a syndication partner. So we're going to both be busy, but I hope you all make it to Mexico.

It's going to be a lot of fun to hang out there. Lawrence, thanks so much for joining us today. And thank you all so much for listening. If you want to connect with Lawrence, you can always do that on Bigger Pockets or we'll put his contact information in the show notes below. Thanks again, everyone for Bigger Pockets. I'm Dave Meyer. See you soon.

Thank you all for listening to the Bigger. Pockets Real Estate podcast. Make sure you get all our new episodes by subscribing on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or any other podcast platform. Our new episodes come out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I'm the host and executive producer of the show, Dave Meyer. The show is produced by Ian K. Copywriting is by Calico content, and editing is by Exodus Media. If you'd like to learn more about real estate investing or to sign up for our free newsletter, please visit www. www.com. The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only. All host and participant opinions are their own. Investment in any asset, real estate included, involves risk. So use your

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