BILFPOD - Attorney Turned Tech CEO: Rebecca Zung on Narcissists, $1.1M in 10 Months & Going All In on AI

Episode Date: June 4, 2026

She went from divorce at 22, to night law school, to building a multi-million dollar empire — and she's just getting started. In this episode, Rebecca Zung — 25-year trial attorney, TEDx speaker, bestselling author, and creator of the first patented AI built to defeat narcissists — sits down to share the raw truth about reinvention, resilience, and what it really takes to scale. We talk about: ✅ How she went from 1,000 subscribers to $1.1M in just 10 months ✅ Why she walked away from her law practice to go all in on AI ✅ How her app SLAY helps victims build undeniable leverage against narcissists ✅ The biggest money mistakes she made scaling her business ✅ Why focus is the real secret to success Whether you're rebuilding after divorce, starting over in your 50s, or trying to figure out your next move — this episode is for YOU. 00:00 - Intro & Sponsor 01:24 - Meet Rebecca Zung 03:37 - Her story: married at 19, divorced, 3 kids 09:21 - How COVID changed everything 11:06 - The narcissist video that went viral 12:29 - $1.1M in 10 months 13:59 - Building SLAY AI 19:48 - Leaving law to scale a tech company 23:55 - How & when to scale your business 44:13 - The power of owning your story 47:19 - "She just got lucky" — and why that's insulting 

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They also offer a 14-day money back guarantee so you can test it risk-free. Again, that's cintra.a-I-i-backslash-bilf with code BILF. B-I-L-F. All righty, let's get into today's episode. Recently, I read a book called The Science of Scaling by Benjamin Hardy, and he talked about You really just have to have one focus. Pause. Rebecca Zung is the leverage lawyer, a 25-year trial attorney, TEDx speaker, bestselling author, and creator of Slay AI,

the first patented AI built to help you win against narcissists. Continue. I had another friend who sold his company for 40 or 50 million. He kept saying the same thing to me, like pick one thing. It was so hard for me to do that. Oh, my God. It's so much money wasted on ads. and all coaches and so much money burned on the wrong things.

So last year after reading that book and talking to my friend, I was like, that's it. It's the AI. That's what we're going to focus on. Even the high ticket is going to be around getting the AI implemented for people who want that one-on-one touch. And that's it. That's the focus. Welcome back to the build pod.

we're authenticity Trump's authority. I am your host, Mara Doran. And here on the BiltPod, we love to showcase bosses in their own right. And today's guest, she is a boss. I love what she rebranded as, as the leverage lawyer. But we're going to talk about something that is kind of taboo. We don't often like to talk about as women, our past relationships. But she's an incredible lawyer with an undying following of 336.

you have 336,000 followers. She's quite the negotiator, but a badass. That's just on Instagram. That's just on Instagram. Oh, sorry. She's correct there. Just on Instagram. So she has so many more, which is so exciting.

Yeah, on YouTube, it's, I think, 730,000 subscribers. So impressive. So you have quite a following. But welcome to the show, Ms. Rebecca Long. Rebecca, it's such a pleasure to, I think I'm just fan-girling because I wanted to be a lawyer and I get to meet a badass attorney right now. So welcome to the Bill Fod. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yes. So we're just going to get started and we're going to dig deep. I mean, you know, your backstory, I don't know if you want to get into that into detail, but I'm sure a lot of why you chose to

become a lawyer is because of your past and where you were. So do you want to, you want to touch a little bit on that and how you got into becoming the leverage lawyer? And we'll also talk about your AI as well, which I'm super excited, but we'll leave that like for its own little part to give it all that late. Yeah, I mean, I took a circuitous path. I mean, I didn't go straight like everybody else. You know, I like a lot of people. But I'm half Chinese and half German. So I always say I have no fun genes whatsoever. But that was a lot of like, oh, pressure to succeed and do well and all of that. And I did graduate second in my class from high school. But then I just kind of, my version of being a rebel was to get married at 19 and have three kids by the time I was 22.

And so, you know, that was my way of like, ah, you know, I don't need this and you or whatever. And then, of course, I ended up with these three kids and I'm getting a divorce and I'm like in my 20s still and thinking, okay, I got to put a roof over these kids' heads and build a life for myself. So I had finished college with them, and then I started as a teacher for a little while and decided to go back to law school a lot because of pressure from my family about what to do in my life. And also because it was one of the few advanced degrees that I could get without needing some kind of prerequisites or something. And so I went to University Miami at night at the time they had a night program, which I don't even think they have anymore,

and happened to meet my husband there, who he got a job as a prosecutor in Collier County, which is like the west coast of Florida. And so he was a year ahead of me. So I ended up meeting one of the top family law attorneys in, certainly in Florida, definitely in the country as well. And I ended up working for her and her partner and really came up through the ranks that way. So that's how I, you know, ended up really in the high net worth family law world. And then, which is a very, very highly specialized type of law because you have to know trust law, business law, taxation. There's a lot of areas that you need to be super, you know, have an expertise in. And then built my own practice and decided I wanted to do other things. So I started

on YouTube about six years ago and gained a big following through YouTube. So I now have over 70 million views on YouTube, I know for sure. And you have written three books. And it's just all been a whirlwind. But it hasn't, you know, it was never. a straight and narrow path. It was definitely, I feel like, bootstrapping and survival the whole way. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, it's so funny listening to you because our paths are pretty aligned. In fact, my father-in-law was a, he is a professor at University of Miami. And he, yeah, legal. And he's a lawyer. So he obviously taught him. Oh, was he there in the 90s? Maybe not, though. Probably. Probably, yeah. I'm assuming.

What's his name? the name after Craig Dorn. Okay. Yeah, I think I do remember him, actually. Which is so crazy. Like, the face is like coming to me, so I'll have to look it up and see if I'm thinking of the right person. But yeah.

Yeah, and I was on the same path, same thing. I just didn't go all the way, but, you know, same kind of story. I was, when I finished my master's degree, I had two kids, you know, just trying to figure it out. Unfortunately, the economy happened. And we couldn't afford for me to go to law school. And I found myself in a very professional. carious situation. I ended up going into sales by fluke. I know my mom is still praying that I'd

become a lawyer, but, you know, I think that you did okay. I did okay, but I also think that, you know, divorce and like you were saying, you know, you had to figure out how to provide for these children. That's the same thing before 30. I found myself, I had two children. I wasn't remarried and I had to figure it out. Like, what was I going to do next for you? Yeah. I definitely give you so much credit that you did the night school thing went and got your law degree. For me, it was selling health insurance late at night. But, you know, in that regard... Yeah, we do what we have to do. Survival is a huge thing, right? Yeah, exactly. And as women, I don't think that people realize how hard it is because we don't just to get to wear one hat.

We have to wear several hats because we have to be the mom. We have to be the dad, the mentor, the educator, also the businesswoman, you know, and then also in the same regard, keep your emotions at, you know, at a surface level. So it's, it's really not that easy. While you're like making lunches and wiping runny noses and. Yeah, and reading bedtime stories and juggling all of that. And then literally juggling to how, you know, it's totally a flow, you know. So I totally understand the trajectory and understand what it takes.

And for so many women, it is, there's a lot of, I don't want to say victim, yeah, maybe victim, you know, mentality where I can't do this. the reality is you can do it. And if you, you know, there is where there's a will, there's a way. You can absolutely 100% do it. But you took it a step further. You didn't just stop, you know, in your profession as a lawyer. When did it change that you, that you really took a niche?

Were you just practicing general law? I'm assuming then you niche. No, no. I didn't hide it with family law. You mean where it changed to what I'm doing now today? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So COVID happened. COVID happened and I, we had moved from L.A. I mean, sorry, from Florida to L.A. right before that. So I was like flying back and forth for my practice still. I was going back to Naples like a week a month. And I had merged my practice with two other partners. But then when COVID happened, I couldn't fly. I couldn't go back and forth. And the courthouses were basically closed. So I had been taking a course on YouTube. and I took some courses on how to do like online digital classes and things like that. So I was like, okay, I could package up a course and I thought it was just going to be on negotiation in general. Right. And I did some videos on just negotiation, like how to get a pay raise, how, you know, clothing, color, psychology and negotiations, things like that.

And they were literally the only people who were viewing it were my mom and her church friends. swear. I mean, it was like, I get your name. I get it. I totally understand. I watched all your videos. I like, oh, that's so great, mom. So then, thank you. Yeah. I know, so nice. So then I did one video in, like, January of 2020 on how to negotiate with a narcissist. And it got like 700 views. And I was like, oh, okay, there is something going on here. And I thought, okay, let me do like eight more videos on that and I'll do a little course on it and just see where it goes. So I decided to launch that on like March 11th of 2020. And I'll tell you the reason why I picked that date was because it was the day after Mercury retrograde was ending that year. And I was like, okay,

I don't want to launch a course in the middle of retrograde. That seems like bad luck. So I'll say, I'll do it on March 11th. And I only had just crossed 1,000 subscribers on YouTube on March 3rd. And that was literally by like begging all my friends to subscribe. And because I wanted to get to 1,000 because then I was going to be able to monetize YouTube. That was like really what I wanted to get to.

And so by January. of 2021, just 10 months later, I had made $1.1 million on that $1,500 course, and I had over 100,000 subscribers. So it just happened in 10 months. And that would all blew up for me. Yeah. So pause right there. Okay. So you're prominent attorney, right? I'm sure you're doing really well, a prominent attorney. And then you, now this speaks leaps and volumes about what's going on. Prominent attorney, COVID happens. A lot of people froze during COVID. And a lot of people ended up furloughed out of work or they were depressed. You know, they weren't working, but not you. You were like, you know what? Courthouse is closed. Client, I'm assuming maybe clientele is down.

Now let me let me, let me switch. Let me go ahead and utilize. But what is so incredible, because I think I'm late to the party because I'm just now getting into the whole AI. I mean, you're definitely much smarter than me. But how important it is to keep. up with the times because if you're not, if you do not know AI and you don't know social media, correct me if I'm wrong, you're done, you're done for, you're not staying, you're not staying afloat. Well, I think you, the most important thing is just to keep pivoting. Yeah. And so, you know, like two years ago, we came out with a custom GPT. That's kind of how I started in the AI world. So I added the custom GPT to my $500 course. And then I also had added, um, added,

high ticket, coaching and sales around that for, I started certifying coaches. And, but then, just about a year ago or so at this point, I started to develop my own AI because I wanted it to be on a private platform so that it would preserve attorney-client privilege. And I also wanted it to be like more organized rather than just like a DPT, you're just having conversations, but you can't organize your documentation. You can't organize your scattered screenshots, your pictures, your incidents, all of that is like there's no place to be able to do that. So we created an AI that has an incident tracker in it so that while something is happening, you just had that exchange in the parking lot or whatever, you just go right in there. You can

can even dictate it right in, it immediately, instantly is creating a timeline for you and it goes into the document depot. Then when you hit the button, generate leverage, it scans everything that you've put in there and starts looking for the patterns of deception manipulation and discrepancies. And so I knew I wanted to build something like that. And we launched that in January of this year. And I just, I just, you know, like, you, if you know, like, okay, this is what's coming rather than, like, rail against it and go, well, that's it. I'm sticking with paper the whole time. You know, I'm not doing this AI thing or I don't trust it or whatever. You know, it's here. It's here to stay. It's not going anywhere. So, you know, learn how to pivot.

That's just really been my whole career, basically. Yeah, I know that's my whole life. I feel you on it. But I don't think that I was clear on what you're doing with the AI. So you have an AI called Slay AI. And what it does is you did say a little bit that it's negotiation or tracking a narcissist through AI. Well, it's any kind, I mean, high conflict personalities for sure, but it's any time you want to generate leverage. So whenever you're in a negotiation, I mean, even if you're an HR manager and you want to be tracking how an employee is or if you're a business. owner and you want to be tracking patterns, it's looking for those patterns. What happens with us as humans is we tend to, we want to see the good in people or we want to get people the benefit of the doubt. And so we don't even realize how many times that you've had this situation where somebody's broken their word or lied or didn't do what they say they were going to do or did something they didn't weren't supposed to do. But when you start tracking the patterns, the patterns equal power. And then you can take the emotion out of it rather than sitting

there going, this isn't fair, I can never get what I want. You know, if you start tracking it all, you start uploading your screenshots, your emails, your social media posts, the financial statements, the credit card statements, the income tax, the deposition transcripts, whatever it is that you have. And you ask, my AI, which we have a patent on, to scan it, it'll automatically look for patterns of deception and manipulation and violations and spit that back out to you. And now, instead of like going, that person's a narcissist, you can actually say, here's all the ways that they've misbehaved. Yeah. And patterns are proof. So are you, so a lot of your, the people that are,

that are purchasing this product, are they lawyers in conjunction and then giving them to their, to their clients? Both or both, or just clients taking it. Got it. Yes. So because it does preserve privilege, we have two different dashboards. We have dashboards for the consumer. And then we have dashboards for professionals as well.

And the professionals can actually have all of their matters. when they open the dashboard, all their matters are listed there. Then when they go inside the matter, that's when they can see the incident tracker, the timeline, the generate leverage, the document depot. And they can give access to whoever they want to. So they can give internal access to a team member, or they can give, like, you know, if it's an assistant or whoever, or they can give external access to the client. And then that way it becomes work product and it stays under the umbrella of attorney-client privilege. Nice.

So, I mean, both, I'm assuming that attorneys must love it, especially if they're dealing with domestic abuse or whatever, if they're just trying to, you know, trying to stabilize patterns. So it's a great organizational tool for attorneys. But then for women, we were talking about this before, maybe women that can't afford proper, you know, representation. Totally. How much is something like this? So we have, for the consumer, we have three different levels. It's $18 a month, $47 a month, or 97 a month, depending on how much data they need or how much storage they need. And then for attorneys or it could be any kind of professional, really, anybody who has multiple matters, it's 97 a month per matter. But then they can, pass that cost back on to the client or they can even upsell it to the client if they want to

and make it a profit center for them. So you can, so basically you can run it where, you know, like you have like an affiliate link if you really wanted to do it or like multi-level marketing if you wanted to. I love that. I mean, not only are you beautiful, but brains too. There you go. You have the legal experience and expertise. And then you have the business savvy part of it, which is incredible. So you were able to, I'm sure you can use both. both in conjunction, which is really nice as well. Now, are you still practicing law or are you just primarily focused on AI? No, no. I'm really focused on running this company and scaling it as quickly as we can. We do have enablement packages. So we have attorneys who are strategic

leverage advisors on our staff who can, you know, it's more of a high ticket advisory for people who want individual sessions on pulling all of this together and creating undeniable leverage for their attorneys. And then we also have enablement packages for the professionals who want to integrate it into their practice. So those are more high ticket. Incredible. But it's, I mean, especially for professionals, to be able to integrate it into your practice,

it becomes actually a profit center, and so it really does pay for itself. So one thing I want to touch on and just talk about what the audience is the failure. You know, it sounds that you're doing amazing. But I also like how you're honest at first. The same thing for this podcast. When I first started, I begged everybody. I'm like, you have to be a subscriber. You know, and then my mom would be the same thing.

My mom's like, I watched it. I'm like, thanks, mom. Yeah. But the amount of failure and then understanding how to scale by watching, Well, for me now, my big thing is watching the algorithm. I say, you know, like, it doesn't matter what what resonates with me. It's what resonates with the algorithm and what people really like. So utilizing that is a big help. So what about like when you first started? I know you said you had, you know, hard time trying to figure it out what people really liked. How did that look as far as the failure? Oh, my gosh. I mean, there have been so many times where it's just felt like, because people stopped really being interested. in the online courses at one point because once COVID was sort of dying down, then that sort of started dying off as well. And it got harder and harder to sell that. And then, you know, like I'm such a ADD person. So, you know, if somebody would come to me and go, let's do a business

program for women or let's do something for teens or let's do, I'd be like, okay, yeah, that's great. That sounds like a great idea. And then, you know, I'm all over the place. And, you know, Recently, I read a book called The Science of Scaling by Benjamin Hardy. And he talked about how you really just have to have one focus. And I had another friend who sold his company for 40 or 50 million. And he kept saying the same thing to me, like pick one thing. And it was so hard for me to do that. I had to, oh my God, it's so much money wasted on.

I get it. I'm there too. I'm right there with you. So much money burned on the wrong things. And so last year, after reading that book and talking to my friend, I was like, that's it. It's the AI. That's what we're going to focus on. Even the high ticket is going to be around getting the AI implemented for people who want that one-on-one touch. And that's it. That's the focus. I love that. I mean, I absolutely love what you're saying because I'm in the same boat as you, trying to figure out, you know, with AI and AI, such a huge component in my everyday life

as a sales, as an insurance, as a senior regional sales leader in an insurance company, you would never think AI was important. But we're utilizing AI, plus in my own brand and the show, it's utilizing and understanding how AI works. And it's constantly changing. So it's ever evolving. I mean, the AI is training the AI. So now we have two AIs working in conjunction to like, you know, to get things going, moving and

grooving. But I love how let's talk a little bit about scaling and when it's time to scale. Because I think that's a big, you know, misconception or people just don't have an idea. I didn't have an idea. Like when, like talk about the concept in general when it comes to scaling. Oh, I mean, there's so much testing. And I really had to learn this myself to so much the hard way I have to tell you. much the hard way. So if you take anything from me, it's just testing. Like, don't just decide, oh,

that's a great idea. Let's just throw this out and start with the new thing. I've done that many times. Do not do that. Just like, try it, you know, layer it in, see how it works and see which one works better and it's A-B testing constantly. It's so hard for me because I'm such a squirrel, you know, let's do that. But, and I get really excited about my new ideas and let's go this way. And my whole team, I now have almost 30 people on my team. They're like massive whiplash with me all the time. And so I recently just hired an integrator, you know, director of operations, who's constantly like keeping me in check with, no, we're doing this. And I'm so glad that she's doing that because I would totally not be where I am now without that. No, the same thing. I have like

shiny objects syndrome where I'm like, oh, that sounds like a good idea. Oh, let's go with that one. Okay, let's try this one. But what I'm learning now too is it's all about what resonates with your audience or with, you know, the algorithm, like I was saying, if it, if from A, B testing your content or just testing, you know, the different results, that, that'll save you a lot of time, a lot of heartache and a lot of money trying to figure out what works. People will tell you, though you'll know what works just from the results. So it doesn't make sense to do that. But, you know, not only did you create this incredible AI, which is so, I love that. You also wrote, you also have written books. Three books. I've written three.

books. I mean, the first one I wrote in 2013. It's been a while now. And then the second one came out in 2019, Negotiate Like You Matter. And Robert Shapiro wrote the foreword for that one. And then Slay the bully, how to negotiate with a narcissist. And when came out in 2003, Chris Boss wrote the forward for that one. That one's a USA Today bestseller. It's probably time for me to write another book at this point. But I'm like so immersed in this, you know, AI that, and this AI company that I'm really just focusing on scaling this at this point. So I'm not, I'm not, you know, thinking, okay, let me sit down and write a book because, like, those are hours that I feel like I could be spending talking to awesome people like you.

Or your AI. Or talking to you. Well, what that's what I mean, marketing the AI. I love that. So you have three children, right? I have four. So my husband, I met my husband in law school and we have one together. Nice.

Same thing. I have another one too. So how old are your children, if you don't mind me asking? So they're in their 30s because I started so young. And then my youngest is 23. They must think that you're so cool. Mom is with the AI. We grew up together.

My older three and I, we definitely all grew up together for sure. That's like me and my older too. And then the little one is like, I don't know what the patient. went out the window. I don't know what happened there. It's a lot. When you have a 10-year difference between one, it's a lot. Yes. Mine were about that much too. They were like 10, 11, and 12. And then my youngest is so good. I mean, she's like amazing to 4-0 from school and from college, and she's applying to law school. And I always say it must have been the formulas to two parents who work too much because I don't know. We just worked all the time and she was at the law firm with us

and everything else. So I don't know. She watched you work. That's what, same thing with my daughter. She saw the story. She saw the story unfold. And I think she, you know, that was really the school of hard knocks is watching me grow up and become, you know, the woman I am today. So I think I'm pretty sure that happened for your daughter too. She watched all of that. Yeah. What are some, what would you say are some, some habits that you have that have really made you sick? successful that are like non-negotiables for you. Like for me, it's going to the gym every morning. I have to do that. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, meditation, gym working out. But it's just, it's more like habits of everything. You know, like if I write something down on my to-do list,

then that has to get done. It's like not negotiable for me. It's not like, well, I'll just roll that to next block. You know, it's like, I have to keep my word. to myself on everything because the more I do that, the more results I see in my business as well. So, you know, if I say, oh, you know, today I'm going to do 50 legs squats and I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that, then I have to, okay, it's 8 o'clock at night. I didn't do that yet because I'm doing it right now because I have to keep my word to myself. Yeah, it's important.

You're absolutely right. Whenever I say, like if I am seeing as believing, so when I write, I read, I'm doing it, When I write things down and I see it, I'm like, I'm so OCD. I'm like, oh my God, I have like, I'm not stopping until the checklist is complete. Exactly. Like, and it forces you. So when I don't, obviously, when I don't write things down, I'm not as successful at all or productive.

But writing things down and that's something that I need to get better with, but you're absolutely right. Seeing is believing. And then it actually happens when you, when you put it down. Yeah, especially get that dopamine hit of checking it off. Ooh, this done, this done. Yes. All right.

So we're going to have a little bit of fun right now, okay? True or false. All right. Most people who call their ex a narcissist are actually describing someone who is just difficult. True clinical narcissism is far rare than the internet suggests. True or false. I think that's probably true. You know, the one thing I just always caution around with that is, you know, to stop trying to label people

because it doesn't matter. What really matters is your experience. of that person. And if your experience of that person is that you don't feel heard, you don't feel seen, you don't feel respected, there's not a safe space for you, then just trust your gut on that. It doesn't matter if they're diagnosed as a narcissist or bipolar or whatever. What really matters is how it's landing for you and how you decide to take back your power in that situation and what it means for you if you're feeling triggered around that. And just the very first step in anything like this is taking back your identity and deciding

who you are in this. And so what I don't like about labeling, other people and all of that is it keeps the focus on them rather than on yourself and your own power. Good point. That's excellent. Second question, the family court system is completely unprepared to handle true narcissists and they exploit it every single time. I would say that's true.

I would say that the system is not built. It's built on a faulty premise. The system is built on a premise that people are reasonable and that people want to get to a resolution. and people who are high conflict personality, narcissistic types of people, they get supply from creating chaos and keeping that chaos flowing no matter what, because that gives them a sense of control. And so unless you build leverage, unless you learn how to threaten a source of supply that's more important for them to protect, which is their image, you're never

going to be free and just understanding that the system, and there's also a fundamental, I want to say, gap between what people think, they think that the system is there to protect them or to make things fair or right. And the system is not built for that. The system is built to apply the law. That's the judge's job. The judge's job is to apply the law agnosticly without, worrying and wondering about, oh, geez, this really sucks for this person, that this happened. They might feel that way underneath their black robe, but that's not their job. And so your job as a potential litigant is to tell your story in a way that the judge is going to care about it. And that's by applying your facts to each element of the law that applies in your particular

situation. And that's why we built Slay AI because it helps you do. that. Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right. I don't think the law is designed to be fair or not, because you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, you know, by fact. So it doesn't really, you can't use emotion when you're building your case. Yeah, I mean, there's different burdens of proof depending on the type. So it just, you know, some is preponderance of the evidence. Sometimes it is beyond a reasonable doubt. But basically, you have to look at the elements of the law in your particular situation and have facts to support each one of those. And those facts have to be evidence that's relevant and admissible in court. And that's what most people don't understand. They just think,

well, my lawyer's just going to save me and they're just going to do it all. Well, the minute somebody starts accusing you of something, there's a false pleading that comes in, accusing you of all these allegations, or there's a letter that comes in from opposing counsel that says something, or you're sitting in court and the other side's accusing you of something, the first thing your lawyer's going to do is look at you and say, is that true? How should I respond? Because your lawyer hasn't lived your life with you. So you have to be the one who has all of that ammunition ready to go for your lawyer. And that's where building leverage comes in. Do you think that Slay AI is, and this is not even one of my questions I was just thinking about it as you were talking,

do you think Slay AI was really just your way of kind of showing the world? Like, I have control now. I've gained back my power. And now you can show other women or other people how to really properly, without emotion, track the patterns of narcissists. I mean, it was my way of giving people the tools that they need and using the technology. that we now have available to us. You know, we used to have to do all that by hand or the paralegal had to.

I mean, I literally had people bring in massive paper bags filled with all their stuff into me, you know, 20 years ago. I mean, all of their bills and all of their stuff in paper bags. And I'd be like, I don't want to go through that. No lawyer wants to look at your 35,000 screenshot and talk to your 50 friends and the piano a teacher and the neighbor and your brother-in-law and everything else. They don't really want to do that. I mean, and so the more you can organize all of that for them, the better it's going to be for people. I love that. Women are more likely to be believed when they accuse a partner of

narcissistic abuse. Men face a much harder road. Sure or false? I just, I think that it's a slippery slope to accuse anybody of narcissistic abuse. I think that, for example, I have a sample trial exhibit of a real one that I actually used in trial where the husband was just saying, I'm the best dad in the world and all I care about is being with my kid and blah, blah, blah. And then during a four-month period while the case was actually pending, this is like when he's supposed to be on his best behavior, they have. had 98 custody exchanges and he asked for a change in the schedule 48 out of 98 times. And she agreed to it

46 times. And so, and for each one of those changes, she had supporting documentation, a text where he asked to change the schedule on April 13th. And every single one was supported by documentation. when that happens, when you have something that you can show, geez, 49% of the time that he was supposed to take his kid, he changed the schedule. What is more important than his child? You don't need to say narcissistic abuse at that point. You can just say, look at the facts. These are the facts. And then you tie it to an element of the best interest of the child, statute, which in Florida's 20 factors. So you can go, okay, which factor does this tie to? And now you don't need to ever use the word narcissist. So whether it's, you know, I get concerned when

people are like, well, it's harder for men. It's harder for women. You know, because then that becomes a crutch and it becomes an excuse to stay in victim mentality. And I don't want to say to people, you know, usually what I say to people, I'm kind of like, you know, a little bit tough love with this. But it's like, okay, the judge is against you and the court system is rigged and your lawyer hates you and, you know, the clerk doesn't want to help and whatever. Okay, great. You are right. Do you want to be right about that or do you want to change it? And if you want it to be different, then you have to decide that it can be different. I love that. I'm going no contact is almost always the right answer. Negotiation is usually a trap.

So I actually say it should be modified no contact. It should be strategic no contact. Because if you completely do not respond to any kind of messages or text or anything like that, and especially if you have like a child together or even if it's like a business partner, that is dissolving and you're just not responding, it could reflect poorly on you. So you want to be strategic in your communication, certainly have boundaries, certainly have standards where you're, you're not going to engage in conversation that's disrespectful. And you can certainly have phrases at the ready, like, this approach isn't working for me, or we can have this conversation when we can both be respectful, or let's stick to the issues and not get personal, you know, things like that.

I mean, so I have like a bunch of these, like, little phrases for people. But, you know, I would say it's strategic no contact, not just complete no contact. Love it. All right. Last question for this segment. the narcissism content industry, including coaching programs and online courses, sometimes profits more from keeping people in victim mode than from actually help them get free. I totally agree with that.

And, you know, I think that most people, you know, most people out there who are giving information about narcissism, not to say that it's wrong, but a lot of it is, you know, psychologists who are breaking it down for them, who are saying, you know, well, this is what they say or this is what they do or how they behave. But, and, you know, there's a lot of coaches, life coaches, people like that out there just saying the same kinds of things. But it doesn't really give them the tools to actually do something about it and take back their power. And I think that's the most important thing. Yeah. And I think that overall, you know, this really isn't about narcissism, but really utilizing everything that you've gone through and putting it all to, you know,

together so women or people in general can learn from your mistakes, but also be organized about the approach. So it makes it just more. It just makes it a lot easier to get your point across because of the court system. And having, and me having gone through it, I remember getting divorced. I mean, I'm really good friends with my ex-husband now, but it wasn't always like that at all. You know, and when you, you had me laughing when you were saying like the 20 bags of, you know, all kinds of receipts and we were trying, it probably would have been a lot easier if I could track if I could track them through an app or you know just put in all the behavior in there but it made my case a lot easier going forward exactly what you i saved you a lot of money too yeah for sure oh yeah

lots of money but what you are doing overall just for the system and for women and for people in general is absolutely incredible you should be so proud of yourself to have this patent AI resource for lawyers as well as you know people that really need this so what is next for you I mean you have the AI. I know you're bottled up in all of this. Is there like a next for you? Are you going to, I don't know, are you going to, who knows? What are you going to do? Well, try to scale it into as many consumers and also professionals as possible over the next couple of years. That's really the focus right now and the goal. What's the best advice you would give somebody that is pivoting, you know, going from their career that they're accustomed to, that they know everything about into something else.

You may be feasible to think. What would be the best advice that you give? I would say people will think what you tell them to think, and you and you and you alone define your value. If I can just tell a quick story, when I first went out on my own with my law firm, I had been a lawyer for a couple of years, and then I pivoted into being in financial services for a couple of years. I was a stockbroker and I had my series 7 and 66. And then a friend of mine was leaving town. And so she was like, hey, do you want my law practice? And so she basically handed me like her 12 clients or something. So I went back into the law. And I had a business coach at the time who was helping me with the transition. And I said to her,

I'm so afraid that the people of Naples, Florida, which is a very affluent community, people don't know, that we're going to think that I was a total flake, like this woman, she doesn't know what the hell she wants, she's in law, finance, back to law. And I just really was like so nervous about what I was going to look like. And my business coach at the time said to me, you can tell them that you're a flake or you can tell them that you're the only family law attorney in town that has a financial background, which story would you like to tell? I was just going to tell you that.

You know they're synonymous. Yeah. And so she said people will think what you tell them to think. Which story do you want to tell? Yeah. And so I was like, well, maybe I'll tell that story. So that's what I did. And within two years, I had the top family law practice in Naples by a lot.

And, you know, I was representing very wealthy people, people who were definitely not in the market for a flake as their attorney. But had I shown up as, I'm sorry, and I know I jump around a lot, but, you know, I really am a serious person. Like, then that's what people would have seen. They would have seen that unsure person. And so, you know, you don't even realize the power that you have, that you have the power to just step into yourself and your role and who you are and people will sit up and take notice and listen and they will respect you for it. Yeah, I love that. And I love that. You say that it's so funny because I was just at a party. And my best friend, she was like, my brother, because I was like, how's his practice going? She's like,

funny, you should say that. He's now doing financial services. So I know that they're synonymous. I mean, they go great together, like a financial planner, you know, any, and then you have the legal background, they just go, and it's business savvy. So I'm assuming your family practice that you were the practice that you had with all the clients, I'm sure business wise, it did very well, too. Very well. Yeah, I'm sure, because you knew how to scale and you knew how to use it as an actual business as opposed to, you know, clientele or just representing. Because sometimes lawyers, they don't have both, you know, they don't have both components. You're a great lawyer, but zero business sense. And I've met a lot of that. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Well, marketing yourself, learning how to market

yourself. I mean, that's a big, huge thing. Like, you know, I always say that I spoke to every rotary from Sarasota to Marco Island, every women's group, every Hadassah, League of Women Voters, everybody who asked me to speak, yes, yes, yes, yes, okay. And, you know, after a couple of years, I didn't need to do that anymore because I had a name at that point. But learning how to market yourself is really, really important. Yeah, no one's going to do it for you. No one's going to do No one. You know, you're your best. Especially women. Yeah, you're your best representative. Like when, you know, if anyone tries to ever represent me on behalf of me, it never works out, ever. Even when I was selling, if I had to an appointment setter or so, it just didn't work. Either you're going to do it

yourself. And it just goes to show that hard work and sacrifice pays off. And I always say this. I'm like, it's always short-term sacrifice for long-term return. And that's what it comes down to. And I think that you really have embodied that. You know, you're not a flake. I think. I think. that all of your background. I think all of your background, which is, right, ironic, if you think about it, your entire background has gone full circle into this incredible business that you've opened, that you, that you have, not open, but you have and you're scaling. It encompasses all, all of your background in it. It really does. It definitely does. You know, I have to tell you something funny. A friend of mine happened to tell me that, you know, I was at a party here in L.A. and right around the time that my

YouTube all blew up and my courses were all blowing up and every. She said that somebody else at the party, some other female actually, said, pointed to me and said, well, she certainly got lucky. And that is the most insulting thing. I just had to laugh because I'm like, oh, yeah, sure. Real lucky, sure. Real lucky in life. Remember there's times when you're reading those time of no money.

The 12 hour days and never having a weekend alone, I mean, off or anything. Yeah, sure. Yeah, or leaving your kids as the last ones in daycare and coming in there to shove it. Yeah, I remember those days. Yeah, not knowing what left or right or up or down. Yeah, oh, real lucky in life. Yeah, I remember when I was sacrificing all the time. Oh, yeah.

I get it. That's so funny. I mean, today's conversation was such a, it was like such, I don't want to say make you feel good, but it did, it definitely shed a lot of light on the power of not giving up as well as the power of pivoting and that you're not stuck because you're basically revamping, rebranding yourself from this powerful attorney into now this powerful businesswoman that is utilizing both sectors of their life into one.

So I mean, for any woman that is listening, you're not just, you know, age number one, it's just a number, but number two, it's never too late. And number three, if you're not up with technology, you're missing the bus. Get involved with AI now. Take courses. I'm late to the party.

I wish that I started three years ago, really immersing myself. Hey, I'm doing all this in my 50s, you know, I mean, hey, never, but I'm still planning to be around for a long time to go. So, you know, 50s is the new 30s. I'm saying, every post I read now, they are like in your 20s, you're this and your 40s you're this, but in your 50s, you're really this. But it's so true that we're ever, we're ever evolving and hopefully forever young. But, you know, you really are a true example of, you know, defying all odds, but really be. a trailblazer in both sectors of your life in your attorney life as well as now your new

business life. So I hope women heard your hear your story. They take a little piece out of your notebook because it is absolutely incredible. And if people want to find you, where would they find you? Well, YouTube is rebecca zung.tv. The AI, there is a free trial for anybody. If they want to try it for free, they can go to Slaypro.aI and sign up there for a free trial. And just try it out and see if you like it. If you don't like it and you know, you don't need it, you can just cancel before, you know, the free trial is up. But I definitely highly recommend trying that.

And, of course, everywhere else is just my name, Rebecca Zung. And we'll have all of that in the notes. They'll be able to reach out to you. Thank you. This conversation was much needed and needed to be had. I appreciate you taking some time this afternoon and hanging out with me. So until next time, I know that you are just scratching the surface on what you're going to do next. I mean, I see it from lawyer to businesswoman to maybe going on, I don't know, maybe being the first woman to walk on the moon.

I don't know. Maybe. It's kind of fun. I feel like you can do anything. You really are, boss. Yeah, we all can. Yeah. Well, thank you for hanging out.

It was amazing. Thank you so much for sharing all the tips, tricks, and just who you are. and being so authentic. Thank you. Thank you for having me.