BILFPOD - From Content to Capital: Scott Clary on Building Real influence

Episode Date: April 25, 2025

In this powerhouse episode, Mara Dorne sits down with Scott d Clary- Entrepreneur, investor, and host of The Success Story podcast- for a deep dive into the creator economy, personal branding, and what it really takes to win long-term. With millions of followers and partnerships with giants like Hubspot and LinkedIn, Scott brings next level insight to the conversation. What's inside:- the creator economy boom: its headed to$500b- but the real flex is knowing which moves are *your* moves. Scott breaks down how to cut through the noise and stop blindly following every "guru" with a mic. -Authentic branding: How Scott built a magnetic brand and true community, by consistently keeping it real. - Monetizing influence: Strategies to turn your voice into multiple income streams. -Battling imposter syndrome: Scotts take on staying in the game when doubt creeps in. - Real world game plans: tactical advice to grow your brand, audience, and business.Whether your'e building your first brand or scaling influence, this episode is your blueprint. Tap in- this one's a Masterclass.#bilfpodcast #BILFPOD #ScottClary #creatoreconomy #personalbranding #digitalentrepreneurship #contenttocapital #womeninbusiness #maradorne #entrepreneurmindset

commit, if you want to build something meaningful, commit 10 years of your life to it. And when you think that way, you'll set yourself up so that you can commit 10 years of your life financially and mentally to whatever it is you want to build. And when you combine all those ideas, I think it's very hard not to be successful. Welcome back to the BillsPod. We're going to be a boss a day. Welcome back to the Billspod. We're authenticity trumps authority. My name is Mara Dorn and this is the BiltPod. But today's guest, I always say they're super special, but this happens to be a very personal close friend of mine. We have Scott Claryon. Whoopoo. Thank you for having me.

He finally came to Orlando to come hang out with me for a little bit. But now I get to do your intro. You did mine so spectacular. I get to like really hype you up. So let's see if I got it. So Scott is from Canada. He grew up in Ottawa, always had an interest in self-employment and just entrepreneurship and then ends up getting into the entrepreneur background and you create a big tech company ends up selling for X amount of dollars, which you say won't tell me, but whatever. But super techy, very smart. But then shifts into podcasting. And you have over 100 million downloads, over 321,000 subscribers.

And you really just focus on success stories. I know you've had an enormous amount of different types of people come on where you just highlight what they do, how they're doing that. I have been, I have been very privileged. Thank you for allowing me, which is really impressive because you have one of the top podcasts, not just here nationally, but internationally. And you've been recognized for that. I remember seeing that award in your cute studio over there, which is super cool.

I thought that was amazing. I'm trying to get there. You will, but you just started. I know I just started. Thank God for your help. But you just started, and I've been doing this for over six years. and I was looking at, they're not all interviews, but I think we're over like 800 and some episodes that we posted.

That's incredible. Yeah. That's really, I mean, you highlight what people do. I love that you do. And you have like a vested interest because you can tell when you're talking to people. I've seen mine, but I've also seen other people that you've interviewed. And you've just had an array of different people. But you really are intentional with the questions that you ask and the things that you're

trying to project. But let me, how did you even, I never even asked you. Like, how did you just show? shift all of a sudden decide, do you wake up one morning? You're like, I'm going to do a podcast? So a little bit, yeah, a little bit. I think that for the podcast, I started the podcast because I wanted to build something that would make the rest of my life easier.

I wanted to build an audience and I wanted to build a community. And I didn't really know what I was going to do with it when I first started. But I looked at people like the Gary Vs of the world that have massive audiences. And they have audiences, but they're also entrepreneurs. and they keep launching businesses, and it's so much easier to launch a business or to just do anything when you already have an audience

that trusts you. So when I first started, you know Gina, obviously, she was a little bit of my muse as well. She had a massive following on Instagram. She's been building an account with her sisters for the past now, almost 11 years,

and they built a whole business around it. So I'm like, okay, so I get, you can make money with content. I get that it can be used for business opportunity. Let me find a style. of content that I enjoy and let me stick with it for long enough because I'm also a big believer that anything you do in life, if you stick with it for long enough period of time, you're going to figure out how to make it work.

And content wanted to future proof myself and the type of content I wanted to create was sort of podcast fit my personality. Like I don't want to dance on TikTok. I'm funny but not funny enough to do some shit on Instagram, like what Gina does with her memes. So I was like, let me try and do something that is educational, that I can learn from, that I can enjoy. And I do believe that if you teach people and you help people on their own journey, the more people you can help, the more successful you'll be. So podcast ties into that as well.

I love that. And that's why I started. I love the message. I mean, helping other people always works. It always works. We were talking about this in the car that it doesn't, you know, when at least for me, everyone laughs. They're always like, you never make decisions with your head. You make them with your heart.

And it is like, it's a fine balance, but I always feel like if you do the right thing, no matter what that looks like, even if it's, you know, immediate financial loss. In the end, it's financial gain. But more importantly, it's just, you know, it's personal gain. And that's going to supersede anything that you do in life. So I love that. I agree. And also, you know, if people ask me, is podcasting a good business?

I would say that it's not a great business. It's a slow business. It can be used in a variety of ways. You can use it if you already have a product or service you're selling. Yes, you can use it to build an audience. Yes, you can use it to drive leads or traffic or whatever. But on its own, it's not the best business model in the short term. Now, long term, it has huge potential.

You look at the contracts that Joe Rogan gets. You look at some of the standout examples. Keep in mind those are the 0.01%. But also, if you can stick with it long enough, it will pay off. But you have to find a way to stick with it long enough. Whereas if I started a business, I could sell. a product immediately and make way more money in year one than I would ever make just podcasting and trying to find advertisers.

So it's a long play, which again, this is sort of like a life thesis that I have, like anything I want to do. In my mind, I want to do it till the day that I die. Now, maybe that's not the case. Maybe I stop. Maybe I exit. Maybe I do something else with it. Maybe I pivot.

But if I go into it thinking, I am okay doing this until the day that I die, I'm going be successful at it. And the most beautiful thing in life is that you really only have to be successful once to make more money than you know what to do with. For sure. I like that play. I mean, I think that's an important lesson in a good nugget. Like no matter what you do, you don't go in with like a backup plan. I did that initially. But when you finally go like full fled, you know, both feet in front, you're going to have a lot more success. Burn the boats. Yeah. I mean, you kind of have to. Like anything you do in life, you got to give it 100% otherwise it's not going to work. And I think a lot of people make that mistake where they're kind of

one foot in, one foot out. There's a backup plan. And then all of a sudden, they're wondering why it's not working. Well, when you go with that mentality that this is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life, you kind of put in a full effort. It's important to say that two things can be true at the same time. What is that? Why is that important? Because yes, you have to go all in, but you go all in when you can make sure that that thing is going to support the lifestyle that you have. So on the other end of that, too many people listen to the bullshit. hustle culture, quit your job and just try and make your business work. You want to become an entrepreneur, quit your job and just like speed run entrepreneurship. And I think that that's also

toxic because then if you only have say three to six months of money in the bank, you quit your job, you start building something. It doesn't work out. Then you're going back to work and then you have this idea. Maybe I'm not good enough and I was never cut out to be an entrepreneur. Whereas if you're working your nine to five, you build your business, your startup from, you're working nine to five, you're building your business from five to nine and on the weekends, all of a sudden, you can try and build that business for one, two, three, four years and eventually make the transition. So you de-risk entrepreneurship.

That's interesting. I tell my agents the opposite. They're younger, though. I think you have to understand which season of life you're in. The audience. Because if you have a mortgage and you have kids and you have a spouse and you have these responsibilities, you just have to be smart. You just have to be smart.

I agree. I think that sometimes people are a little bit more reckless than they should be. Agreed, especially this day. And I feel like it's such a new wave of people. There's, like, we have these dot comers and we have like these kids and that want to just get content creation and all of a sudden it's just going to fall from the sky and they're going to be, you know, multi-millionaires, but it doesn't work like that either. No, I agree.

And so regardless, like whatever you do, like just assume it's going to take longer. then you think it will. It'll cost more to build that thing, but know that if you find a way to stick with it long enough, then you'll be able to do it. And also the other reason why I like telling people to stay with it long enough and to give themselves a little bit more runway than expected is because when you set yourself up like that psychologically,

then you're comfortable when it doesn't work out immediately and you start to lose the motivation. You're like, okay, that's fine. I plan to be trying this thing for three, four, five years. when you set expectations that it's going to work right away and you listen to the bullshit that you see on Instagram about what entrepreneurship is, if it doesn't work out and you set the expectation that it should,

that it's going to demotivate you. It's going to let that imposter syndrome creep in, and it's going to be very hard to push through that. But if you know from the get-go that it's going to take long, then you're okay when it takes long. For sure, and that's okay. And that's increasing the odds of it actually working out. Absolutely. And I think that's okay, too. So many people think, you know, you have to generate or you have to do really well within your first year. Sometimes it doesn't take, it didn't take me my first year to do well. It took me several years to do.

I would say that most businesses, like, you should be earning more than an average job at the three to five year mark. But to truly create something that leads to generational wealth, like, again, more money than you know what to do with. I would say seven to 10 years is a pretty comfortable time frame. not just making like a million bucks a year, like making something that can be sold for tens of millions or hundreds of millions if that's your goal. Right. I would say that 10 years is a really good amount of time to allocate for it. Yeah, that sounds about it. I mean, that's a fair assessment.

But it sounds fair, but then you go on Instagram and then you say people that started their ecom company last week and they're driving like a G-wagon and they have like a private jet. And that's the expectation, right, that we just start. six months and that's where you get right away. But that's not really what it is. We both know that though because we built businesses. Let's talk a little bit about your business that you built. Like how did you, so you built this incredible business, right? It was a techie business. So let's talk a little bit about that. And like when you decided that it was your, because I think a lot of

people battle with this. I saw this guy. He was the, um, the manager of, I want to say like the one of the Chicago, maybe the Chicago Cubs. And he had been in the business for like many, many years. And he came back on stage. I saw him at one of these, you know, like inspired. or whatever. And he said, you should never stay in any business for more than 10 years. And I thought that was like very interesting because he said, you lose your passion and you don't see the business the same as when you first did, which makes sense because you know when you first come in, you're hungry. You're super excited. And then as, you know, the years go on, maybe you're not as, you're not as hyped about it. So for you, where did that moment of like, okay, I'm going to sell

the company? Like, how did that even, how did you transition to that? Well, I think that, so I think that for us, when we sold the company, it was a company, to give some context, it was a company that took a lot of the, so it was a broadcast SaaS company. And what we did was we took all the stuff that a news control room would have in a physical news control room. So camera switching and audio switching and graphic overlays, we put it in a cloud. We put it in the cloud. So you could do remote broadcasting. You could have a producer in L.A. and Australia and London, they could all collaborate together on a broadcast. We were building that during COVID.

So around the time when people were able to go back into office and COVID was sort of on the decline, that's when we had an offer to sell. So it was very timely. Sounds pretty smart too because now people are going back in the office. So you capitalize on a time. We capitalized on not to say that we capitalized on COVID, but a lot of our, a lot of our, a lot of our, yeah, a lot of our success was because of what was happening in the world. Yeah, for sure, which made sense. We sold at the end of COVID, and that was a really smart play. And if we had waited, it would have not been the same outcome.

So for you, it was timing. It was all timing, and it was all, like, what is it? If we don't capitalize on this right now, there's probably never going to be another time to capitalize in the same way that we can right now. To his point, that's tough. I think that that's a very personal decision as to whether or not you should stay in a business for 10 years. I was not in this business for 10 years.

How long were you in? About four, no, like three and a half years. Three and a half years. So it was relatively quick. I did not feel burnout. I felt like it was a wild. It was a very, very like we were moving at the speed of light. I felt like every single day we were coming up with new ideas, but also facing new problems.

Like there was no time to be bored. That's the best way I can put it. But I think that just to speak to his point, if you're trying to figure out if you should stay in something or you should leave it, I think that it's all very personal, but I do think that when you start, you should go through a little bit of a thought experiment as to why you're building the thing that you're building. What I mean by this is that some people are building to exit. Some people are building a business that they want to turn into a lifestyle business. Some people are building a business to pass on to their kids.

This particular business was being built to be sold. It was not being built to be passed on to somebody's kids. That was not ever the goal. But some people want that. So I think that if you are going to be an entrepreneur, then think about why you're building the business, because that is going to inform how you start. And if you take on capital or you go raise money or you don't and you just focus on being profitable and you just focus on acquiring customers and you just focus on scaling that way. And also how big do you want the business to go? Like how big do you want it to grow?

Do you want to have multiple levels of management? you just want it to be you and a few people that work directly for you. So there's so many different ways to build a business. Just know that raising money and trying to grow it and blitz scale it as fast as possible to an exit is not the only way to do it. And if you want to hold on to this business for 30 years, that's also okay. But just know that if you're going to do that, don't raise money. You're going to probably want to build it a little bit, not slower, but you're going to want to build it in a smarter way so that it's profitable. So, yeah, it's all super personal.

Yeah, it just depends on what the individual is trying to do. Yeah. So I don't think you take that advice and just say, oh, I can't say any of it for 10 years. Yeah. I just thought it was interesting. I mean, he was older, too. I think also you have to consider, like, the age, too, where you're at in your life. This guy was already in his mid-40s when he decided, like, because he went and came back.

So he came back into this management position or whatever, but he said he needed that break. Interesting. And that's when he made that broad statement. Like, I came back into, I think it was the Cubs. but he came back in a different position. So I think it's just, you know, consider what stage you are. Right. I'll tell you something.

Like, after 10 years, after 10 years, the business that you started is not even going to be the same business. No, absolutely not. Like there's so, I'm okay, so to give context, when I, so we can talk about different ways to structure a career. So I joined the co-founding team of this particular business that we were talking about as CRO co-founder helped them scale it and it was eventually acquired. And this was already a business that was functioning.

Yes, correct. But the product that they had when I joined was so radically different from the product that we were selling to the market that Grass Valley eventually acquired us for. That's crazy. So, yes, it was the same LLC. It was such a different business. Just from technology in general changing? Yeah, okay. So when I joined, so there was sort of two main products when I joined.

One of them was a streaming product. but it was more for creators. And the second product was an audience interaction product. So think about when you go to like a baseball or basketball or football game and on the Jumbotron and they do like polls. And they say text in like option one option two. That was the second product. So that was very different, very, very different. COVID happened.

The majority of our pipeline was stadiums. All of like we had millions of dollars in potential revenue that just disappeared. You had to do a super quick change. So we had streaming technology, we had graphic overlay technology, because you're already overlaying polls on live video feeds. So we turned this into a live streaming cloud platform for broadcasters in a very short period of time. Pretty smart. I was not the developer.

I mean, CTO is fucking incredible that he was able to turn this around. But yeah, that was a huge pivot. So in a period of years, the business was one business, complete transition into, another business and then acquired. So 10 years is a long time in business and 10 years your business will look radically different. For sure. Even in the insurance business. So I mean, you can say that you can say that it's like not even the same. No, it's true. That's the same thing like when I started. I went face-to-face selling health insurance to now all my agents do it online, which is completely nobody would have ever thought. Exactly. I laughed. I was like, no one will ever

give you your credit card over the phone. They don't even know you. There's no way because we were collecting actual checks. So now these guys, they do it right over the phone. They're giving them banking information, checking, it's crazy. I would never. If you would have asked me 15 years, I would just say absolutely not. No way. I would never believe it. So sometimes if you are getting a little bit tired of your business, and by the way,

when it's growing, you usually never get tired. Yeah. The reason why you get tired is because it's stagnant, but that's another conversation. That's 100% true. If it's growing and you're like, I'm at the 7, 8, 9, 10 year mark and it's still killing it, I would say, first of all, you're probably not getting too bored of it. Think about if you want an exit. But then the second thing would be if you don't want to exit it, because maybe you do want a business you can pass on to your kids or whatever you want.

Think about how do I disrupt myself. So come up with new ideas, new revenue streams, new products, new markets. Disrupt yourself in a variety of different ways. And that will make you a better business anyways. But there's always something to do. You don't have to stop an exit to start again. Only do that if there's a very strategic reason to exit. So I have a question.

And so now you sell this business, right, at the right time. So this was like actually, it was pretty lucky. Very much. So, yeah. I don't want to use luck because I don't think it's luck. I think it's kind of fate. You know, everything kind of happens for a reason. So now you sell this business.

Where do you go from there? And I think this, like for our viewers that are just kind of out of place where they've sold a business or maybe something didn't work for them, where do you go from there? So I started my podcast before we sold. So you were already into the podcast. But the reason why is because I knew we were going to sell. Oh, so you're prepared for it. So you're saying be prepared.

I'm saying be prepared. So I started the podcast, I'm sure maybe about six, seven months before we sold because I knew that we were going to be acquired. The company was already doing due diligence and they were already in negotiation. And I wanted to build something that would make, listen, when you're going through this process, you understand the number that they're looking at. And I knew that it wasn't going to be like never work again money. Right.

So I'm like, how do I future proof myself? Yeah. So then you started podcasting. I started the podcasting because I didn't know what exactly I wanted to do in the future. But I did know that having an audience would help with whatever that thing is. That's why I got a master's degree. Yeah. Because I didn't know what I wanted to do.

I don't know if that's as useful. I don't know if it's as useful. It's not. It wasn't. But that's when I started the podcast. I just knew that podcast is media leverage. All right. Content is media leverage. Yeah, exposure to it's exposure. So when you build that, that just means that if you start a new company, if you want to do coaching, consulting, whatever you want to do, say you want to go work for somebody. It gives you credibility, too.

It gives you credibility and you bring an audience with you. Yes. So it just makes everything easier. I love that. I mean, I love that what you're saying. And it's so true. So I would say for anybody, not for anybody, I would say for somebody that's interested in or trying to get into their own things. they're kind of on the fence. This is a good segue because you are building that community, that culture. And then you can kind of figure it up between the relationships that you're making. But it's been six, seven years. So where are you going with this? Well, okay.

So I did try to do other things since. They haven't worked out. I love that you're honest about that. Because you know somebody people are like, oh, yeah, it worked out. But. No, that's bullshit. Anybody who I know who's successful has had like several failures. It just depends on whether or not they want to talk about them.

So I would say, yeah, so four businesses that I've tried to build, not for, like when I say business, like I've tried to do angel investing, like four different things. I have found that I either have not been good at and I could learn and become better at it or I have not partnered with the right person. But I've tried to do four different things in the past six years since actually moving from Toronto down to Miami, since starting the podcast. And it hasn't worked out. The podcast has worked out quite well. So I'm always trying to figure out, okay, maybe I should stop trying to do things that are separate. Maybe I should stop building the podcast over here and then starting another business that's not associated with it at all over here. But, yeah, I can't even remember what your question was.

But it was like just, I think that it's okay to, I think that it's okay to try new things. I think that it's okay to try and fail. Like you have to. I said, where are you now? That's what I was asking. And I like that you're honest about it. that you failed. And you're still trying to kind of figure it out.

Oh, I still try and figure it out every day. But I do know that, like, the one thing that I enjoy, I continue to do, and it will still continue to be successful. And whatever I do next, I'll make sure that I use that audience or that community or that, you know, megaphone that I've built to help that next business be successful. But I think, go ahead. I was going to ask you, you think that you have to be passionate about whatever you're going into. Is that an important thing for you to be passionate about whatever next step you're taking? No. I don't.

You don't think so? No. I think that if I think that I think that sometimes the things that I've tried to do that haven't worked out, I've tried to do them because I'm passionate about them. And that blinded me to the reality of the business. The passion, the passion put me in business partnerships with people that I shouldn't be in business partnerships with because I was passionate about something and somebody said, hey, Scott, I know you're passionate about that.

Let me build it. And I was so excited about the idea that I did not vet the person as well as I should because I was so fucking like buzzed about this idea, like fired up about this idea. Not to say that that's always what happens when you're passionate, but I think that there are more pragmatic ways to figure out where you want to spend your time. Right. And I think that there's some very unsexy businesses that I could spend my time building that I'm really, listen, if you make enough money, you'll find a way to be passionate about it.

For sure, and I think there's always an underlying thing. Like, for me and the insurance, I know, like, there's nothing sexy about insurance. No, there isn't, but you like it because it makes you money. Yes, that is actually the least bit that I like. The first thing that I like about it is the people, the agents, in giving people opportunity. I'm very passionate about helping other people

as far as being able to mold them and make them generate income. That's a big thing for me. Yes, I love that. And by the way, you can do that. in any business. Yeah. You could just insert another product.

It could be insurance. It could be anything, right? But I'll give you an example of what I mean. So I was always passionate about tech. And you learned very quickly just because you can build a business does not mean you're a good investor. It doesn't mean that you know how to invest. So I was like, oh, let me be an angel investor writing small checks for tech companies.

And I basically lost most of that money just because of betting on the wrong person or the wrong company. So that was me being passionate about a certain type of company and a certain type of industry, and then me putting money into it and it not working out. So for me, that probably wasn't the best idea. I mean, you can be an angel investor, but the chance of you succeeding is still very low. The chance of you succeeding as an angel investor, if you're doing high risk, early stage tech companies, is about the same chance as that entrepreneur making that company successful.

So if you want to be an investor, there's other ways to do it too. You can invest in a fund that has more resources to vet and do due diligence. You can invest in other assets that are a little bit more safe and de-risk, like real estate. You can do private equity. The point is, my passion forced me to take action. It didn't force me. It prompted me to take action, which lost me a lot of money. So in that case, passion probably led me to do things that I shouldn't have done.

But if I was just very logical, like, okay, what's the point of investing? The point of investing is to make a return. So let me look at all the different options and let me judge them all from a non-objective, non-passionate lens and say, okay, between crypto and real estate and stocks and bonds and T-bills and angel investing in tech and angel investing in this category and then private equity. Like what are the things that are going to achieve my objective or my goal, which is generate a return? And then I probably would have made different, and I am right now making different decisions about where I invest my money. So I think that.

What if you don't know a lot about it? Like for me, I would say, you know, one thing that interests me is crypto, Bitcoin. I don't know enough to even make an educated decision whether or not to. So do you teach yourself these things? Is it like, are you going personal development? So how are you finding out about these things? So you spend as much time. So the example I'll give, I'll give a couple examples.

that will frame this well. So if you're going to succeed in your career, you spend, let's use the Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hour rule. You're going to spend a ridiculous amount of time figuring out how to do that job so that you're successful at it. If you're going to succeed as an entrepreneur, you're going to spend 10,000 hours or just some ridiculous amount of time learning your industry better than anyone else. If you're going to invest in an asset, you should spend that same amount of time learning about that asset so that you can make smart decisions. So you're not just going off a family friend referral? 100%.

Which people do. I do it. I've done it. I know. Everyone does it. Because we're human and we have FOMO and we want to put money in. And we're like, oh, if I don't put my money in, then I'm not going to miss out on like, you know, I'm not going to become the next Warren Buffett. If I don't do this stupid investment, which is say it out loud and you realize how dumb you sound.

Yes. That's why I ask the question. I would say the smartest advice. And this is, again, I should listen to this more as well. But if you want to figure out where you should invest, I think diversification has a place but to start

I really believe you should learn something better than anything else because any of them can work out for you meaning crypto can work real estate can work private equity can work

venture can work it can all work the chance of it working increases dramatically when you spend enough time learning it so what I would recommend is put money

through a reputable fund that invests in that asset class because they are going to be the brains that you don't have yet you're going to watch what they do, you're going to learn what they do, and then eventually once you know enough

about how they pick assets or pick investment opportunities, it doesn't matter, real estate, crypto, venture, whatever, then you can go out on your own and put in money without that fund, only enough that you're okay losing. But you, this is like the, this is like investment school. So if you want to go into real estate, put money in a real estate fund and study every single thing they do, learn so much about real estate and whatever type of real estate they're putting money into that finally you'll feel comfortable putting money into a real estate transaction yourself without a fund. But that would be like the journey that I would go on as an investor. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. It's like anything else in life that you want to do.

Before you do anything, you should really educate yourself on it. And surrounding yourself with people that know how to do it. So yes, you can go on YouTube. You can listen to podcast. But if you're like, I'm itching to put money somewhere and I've already watched every podcast in the world on Section 8 housing, go find a fund that puts money into Section 8 housing. Go find a fund that puts money into Section 8 housing, and at least that's where you start. So at least you scratch that as you put money in, but someone else who's very experienced, hopefully, is managing it for you and do that before you go out on your own. And by the way, the disclaimer is none of this is investment advice.

Yeah. So what advice, or I would ask you this, if somebody doesn't have money, because not everybody starts out, you know, not everybody can sell a company or transition, what happens? Where do you start? Like, if you're an entrepreneur out there and you're, you're, thinking you are, I'm tired of the 9 to 5. I want to start my own business, but I don't have a lot of capital to do that. Where do you start? Well, you have skill sets, right? So you either, you either have, um, if you, if you have no skill set, then you have to learn a skill set.

And then the easiest path to entrepreneurship is to is to productize that skill set. Yeah. So if you're great at selling, go be a closer for somebody. If you're great at marketing, go do social media management. And then you take that. initial revenue and you go on Upwork and TopTal and Fiverr and sell your services. I love that. That's easy. I love that. And I don't think people know about Fiverr, which is great.

That's where you start. And you're going to be like, this is peanuts. I'm like, yeah, start there. Start there. Make some money. And then once you understand what being an entrepreneur is, meaning you are responsible for everything, everything, including like your website goes down at like five in the morning.

You got to figure it out. You're doing it yourself. after you're okay with that and you're making money through the skill that you know very, very well, then you can hire somebody and you can train them and then that's your first employee. I love that. And you can train them and then you can delegate the work to them and then you can just be the, you know, the face of the company that generates leads and you can pass over the leads to the people. And that's the quickest way to entrepreneurship.

You don't have to be this tech founder, this, you know, Stanford dropout, go build, Facebook. You don't, that's not. It's not realistic. It's not realistic. So that's a 1%. Exactly. So if you just want to work for yourself, that path that I just outlined will make you more than most jobs that you're going to able to get. I think I found your next job. You can be a big. You can do like consulting for people that want to be entrepreneurs. Yeah, but they don't have money. So they can't pay me. Yeah, that's true. That is good. Yeah, you can't do. You can do, you can do pro bono work. You know, I've tried to do consulting with early stage entrepreneurs before that are like in the process of building. And I think that, you know, just a lesson there. If you're going to be an entrepreneur, the one that's, thing that people had the most trouble with, but is the most useful skill is to learn how to sell. And that's, I actually stopped doing it because the entrepreneurs I was consulting with had no money

to pay me. And they sold you on it. Yeah, exactly. But the thing that I was helping them with was teaching them how to sell their product or service. Because if you are going to be an entrepreneur, you cannot outsource selling. Selling is the most important skill. Bingo.

I can tell you that wholeheartedly, like even with the insurance, I have the agents that that they'll hire an appointment setter, which is the worst mistake ever, because no one's going to ever be able to set and sell that appointment like you can. No. So you've got to find a way to sell. The most successful entrepreneurs

that I've ever met, people that are wildly more successful than me, they were the first salesperson. 100%. Every single one. You have to. You have to know the ins and outs of sales. Sales is everything in life.

You have to be able to sell yourself. You have to. But some entrepreneurs think, oh, I'm going to be the product guy or I'm going to be the developer. I'm going to be the idea guy, right? Or girl, it doesn't work like that. You have to find a way to say. I don't care how introverted, how awkward you are. You could have been a developer that has never left your mom's basement.

Like, you have to find a way to go and pitch your product or service. And not just sell your product or service to the customer. Yeah. You got to sell your vision to the investors. You got to sell your vision to your employees to get them to actually make a jump and take a leap of faith. I mean, sales is. everything in life. I mean, I'm preaching to the choir.

I know there's no better advice. Like, I couldn't even think if I were to do something else, it'd have to be sales driven. It has to be. But that's the thing. If you can sell, you can build any company. Anything you want. Yeah, because I'm definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed.

For sure. Like, I can't do the tech part. I can't, I definitely can't generate anything. I'll tell you something. With AI, the, the ability to code is getting even less important. You don't have to. You just type in what's HTML and they do for you. 100%.

Even before AI, I could go on Y Combinator and get a co-founder. There's a co-founder matching tool. I'm a sales and marketing person. Give me a CTO that can build a product. And it'd give me a whole bunch of developers that could build that. Because developers, without sales, they can have a great product, but very rarely can they actually turn that product to a business because without sales, nothing happens. So that brings me to my next question.

You know, AI is huge. I mean, it's, it's what, I mean, I would say somebody, I was having this conversation with somebody the other day and we were talking about AI and they said to me, you know, what's your, I guess, like, what's your level in understanding AI? I understand what it is. But how much do you, or how important do you think AI is to the future and to the future of businesses in general? Oh, it's huge. I think it's, it's everything. It's everything. And it already is, it already is uncomfortable at what it can do. It's scary. It is a little scary. I think the most important part of the AI discussion is to not let it think too much for you and to continue to have your own critical thought. And take out, like, don't let it be, like the humanistic part you cannot replace.

No. But I would say if you don't know about AI, you better get versed in AI. You have to understand AI. And AI is going to replace a lot of low-level work. But it's not going to, especially at this point, it's not going to replace. place the highest value human to human interaction. So right now I can use AI to put together a contract. So that gets rid of probably, you know, 10 hours of paralegal work.

Right. But I'm not going to trust AI to negotiate a deal if I'm going to sell a company. I'm still going to want somebody who understands M&A. For sure. I could probably get AI to, you know, write some great copy to post on social. but I still want to make sure that like these are ideas that I believe in that include my lived experience that include things that have happened to me or else the content's going to fall flat. No, I agree with that.

So you have to know it, but you have to use it as a tool. And to say otherwise, if you're going to say, I'm not going to use AI or ignorant and you'll be replaced. A tool, not a crutch. Yeah, exactly. I agree. I think so too. And I think so many people don't realize how important.

I mean, even chat GPT, I'm not, I do use chat, GPT, but I write all my own things. I like writing. I like, I like writing. Me too, because it sounds like me. And chat GPT, I mean, it's not going to be long before it can probably write better than a human. I don't love it for just like copying and pasting. I like chat GPT and I like perplexity for like their research functions. Yeah.

So I can do, I mean, I could do eight hours of research in zero time now. And now I can prep for a podcast, for example. Because before, I don't even know if I told you this how I prep for my shows. How do you? I think I told, I think I told your team, but I go listen to podcasts that that person has been on before. I pull the transcripts from those podcasts. I put them into chat GPT and it gives me all the talking points. Oh, see, I just flow with mine.

I don't know. I'm just winging it over it. No, well, I wing it too. I like it just because it's more natural for me because I found like. Oh, but I don't, I don't need to follow it. But the point is like now I know, for example, if I fall flat. If I fall flat or I'll ask it. Like, hey, what are some personal stories that they've mentioned on podcast?

Because sometimes if you're interviewing somebody, I don't remember every story I've ever told that's useful to the audience. So they're not going to bring up every single story. I'd be like, hey, remember that time you spoke about, you know, part of the reason why you started this company is because you never had money. And like your family was on food stamps. And this was like a super traumatic period in your life. And they didn't bring it up. They didn't think it was relevant. But you prompt them because you found that instead of doing hours.

of research, you used AI to do that research for you. And then that brings in a great story that leads to a great organic conversation. Let's talk about that a little bit. I wasn't on food stamps. No, I know you weren't. But I know our stories are very similar with the loss of a parent. I know we talked, and then we talked about anxiety too. We talked about anxiety big time.

How big does anxiety still play? Like, have you had another spat? We talked about, like, I have it so bad. Someone asked me about our podcast. And I was trying to remember what we spoke about. And I was talking about heart palpitations and stuff. And somebody had been like, they're like, I was listening to your podcast with Mara. Talk to me about anxiety.

I'm like, oh, damn, I didn't realize. Like we talked in depth about it. It's something that people don't like to talk about. I didn't realize it was so taboo. Yes, it is very. It's mental illness. Nobody wants to talk about mental illness. But you should talk about mental illness.

I think you should. I'm definitely mentally ill. 100%. I am too. It's okay. You know, you don't want to know something that's like funny but not funny? I've had this conversation before. And I think it's something that we have to be just aware of.

If you're entrepreneurial, the majority of entrepreneurs are some degree of neurodivergent. Yeah. So that's great. Because entrepreneurship in itself is not a normal thing for people to want to do. It's super high risk. It's super stress. So to feel comfortable doing that, that means that you're probably a little bit neurodivergent, which is fine. That's cool.

But understand that taking care of your mental health, if you're going on this journey, is very important. And I don't think that people, and I think that even more so for somebody that is slightly neurodivergent, which again, if you look at data, the majority of entrepreneurs are, you have to protect your mental health. And if you don't, it's like entrepreneurship is like this perfect storm of, you know, just doing difficult things repeatedly that are just weighing on your mental health and you feeling isolated and alone with no one to talk to. It's like such a bad combination. Did I tell you? We talked about this a little. We talked about this concept. Did I tell you about a, not a friend, but a friend of a friend that committed suicide?

Yes. I did tell you that story, right? In Canada. Yeah. Well, the friend is Canadian. Is that the one we talked about? I'll tell you the story. Oh, no, somebody died during COVID.

We were talking about health care, never mind. Oh, that was a different. Man, we went deep on that podcast. Yeah. I forgot. So the story that I was referring to is not my friend, a friend who actually is Canadian. One of his friends, he owned a very large. real estate company when I say very large like I'm sure I really hope I don't forget these details

but I think it was closing in like just shy say but somewhere between 50 to 100 million dollars in a lot of money yeah it's all the matters and in in the real estate world a while back when this happened there was this regulatory change in real estate and there was this radical shift and And basically the way that you can sell a home and the way that you can claim commissions, like, changed overnight. And this is an NAR imposed these new rules and there's lots of lawsuits. And basically it's like the most radical shift to one of the oldest industries in the world happened in a very short period of time. Anyways. So this guy who owned this business thought that this was the end for him, even though he had more, like he could retire at any point.

He'd never have to work again. But in his mind, his identity was so ingrained in his business that on Friday, he fired every single one of his employees with like no reason. He's just like, you're all terminated. And there's like lots of employees. And on Monday, he killed himself. Just because of this. Because of this. Wow.

And again. Did he say nothing? Nothing. No, no, no nothing. Wow. His identity was so wrapped up in his business, even though financially he'd never have to work ever again. And in all reality, his business would not have blown up. It wouldn't have blown up.

Like, it's impossible he could have navigated this. Every other big business in real estate did navigate this shift. But for him, it was just too much. So the point is, this is way beyond anxiety. But if you're going to build something, please take care of your mental health. And also, as much as it's going to be difficult advice for you to, really take to heart, try not to attach your identity to the thing that you're building. Yeah.

And that's hard because you become obsessed with it. Because remember part of the rule and when you're building your business is you have to be obsessed with your business. You have to be obsessed with it. But then you don't tie your whole identity to it. I don't have a great answer for that. Be compartmentalized. I think so.

You know who said that, like ironically enough? I love her, our friend Natasha. Yeah? Because I asked her, I said to her right here sitting here and said, how? are you able between like personal stuff that goes on business stuff, how do you get on the stage and you're just Natasha? And she looked at me and she said, decompartmentalize. And it's true. She's so good at that too. Yeah. I mean, I think, yeah, you have to. You have to absolutely 100% know how to decompartmentalize what's going on versus when you're in your business and know how to

separate that. And that's a really hard thing to do because you're supposed to be obsessed. So it's very hard to take that whatever's going on over here, box it up for the time being and put it over here. It's very, very hard. Now, speaking about anxiety, so what we were talking about

is like panic attacks and shit like that. So, so. I hate the panic. So, uh, the panic attacks that I get are like,

when I step on stage or like, those are like the panic attack. The nervous. Yeah, but it's like, it's like, it's more than that. Because sometimes it's not even

when I'm nervous. Sometimes it's like I'm tired or too much caffeine or too little sleep or like, and then I'll get like this like, yeah, yeah, too much heart attack, yeah,

hungover. Oh, I know this. But I know. We were talking about this. But when you go on stage in particular, that's when I got them the most and I felt like I was going to pass out. Like that's the feeling. It's just not fun.

It's not just like panic attack. No, you're going to die. Like you're going to drop out of a homicide. Yeah, exactly. I haven't had them recently. The less I think about them, the less I get them. For sure. I also know that the trigger events like going on stage,

the way that I got over it was actually asking anybody, I knew who was doing an event if I could speak on stage at the event. And just through ridiculous amounts of exposure to public speaking. Yeah, you just get you. It just made me. Yeah. It just made me numb to it. So again, I shouldn't have done this.

But the first time I ever spoke on stage was at a conference that I think it wasn't just all for me, obviously. But there was like 60,000 people at this conference. Huge conference. First time on stage. Like, Mara, my jacket, I was wearing a jacket. It was like soaked. It was so gross.

I was just sweating and nervous as shit. And it was, but that was not a good place to start. Yeah. Let's take baby steps. I think babysat start. But the opportunity presented. And I'm like, fuck yeah. I love it, though.

I think the message there is you can't let the anxiety control you. You have to control the anxiety. You have to. I mean, I suffer every time. I'm terrified fly. And you know that I'm on a plane all the time. So, I mean, the more that I do it, it's there, but it's not as bad as it could be. So you just kind of force yourself.

If you don't do it, then the anxiety wins. It builds up. It builds up. And the time you have to do it because there will be a point in your life where you have to fly. I mean, you can make the argument that you don't really have to speak, but that's kind of like you're shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to your career. Like you want to take these opportunities.

They're big. Yeah. Yeah, when you finally do it, if you don't do it repeatedly, then when you do do it, like the anxiety is crippling and overwhelming. And I think that it's not just anxiety. Some people have true panic attacks. And I've spoken to people who are like news anchors on my show who have talked about their panic attacks and how they almost pass out. I have them.

I have them. I know. I have them. It's insane, too. We've talked about this. Like, you really think you're going to die. Yeah. I've called the ambulance.

I have to. I have to. You think that you're going to. But I think the other side of it, but what should we both agree, highly entrepreneurial, highly, I would say, motivated people experience this type of. I think so. I think because you're working at a different level. You're working at a different level. So your life is just this constant state of stress,

which is also why I think that there's a lot of an entrepreneur should focus on doing things outside of work. Like fitness, health, wellness, relationship, spiritual, whatever it is. Like there's a need for it to keep yourself centered and grounded. Because if you don't have any of that stuff in your life, your life is just running at, you know, 150 miles per hour, all the time, like 150% on high cortisol, high stress, coupled with the fact that when you work that hard, your identity is attached to the thing that you're building. So when something doesn't go right, it just feels like your whole world is falling apart.

And I think it's very easy for that to have like a physical impact on you. Yeah, I agree. And then that's how hard attacks happen. Or even anxiety attacks, which feel like heart attacks. Yeah. I mean, that's the extreme, the heart attack, the stress. But I think there are ways that you can, like you said, I think you can minimize it. For me, it's the gym for you too.

I know for this is big. For me, for sure. It's ironic because I'll take a pre-workout before I go to the gym and like that's fine. It's the same thing for me. But I try and if I'm going to do like a stressful event, I actually try and like not take as much caffeine. Yeah, for sure. Because it's a different pump though. It's funny that you say that because my heart will be beating really fast.

You know when I'm working out and I'm like, I don't feel like, I don't feel like anything's going to happen. But then that other heartbeat, oh, I'm dying. I'm dying. I know. It's a very different. Yeah, but I do the same thing. I'll minimize. I won't drink a Red Bull.

Same deal. Same exact thing. If I know I'm doing something, like I don't drink on a plane. No, I don't either. I'm too scared because of the adverse effect on it. I don't either. Yeah. I think you have to know, like, how you operate to.

Your triggers. You have to know your triggers. You have to know the environments that you're comfortable and you have to know like, okay, if I eat like shit, if I drink too much caffeine, I'm not going to operate my best. That's why, like, I think being a good entrepreneur or just, in, forget entrepreneur. Like, there's so many ways to make money. You can be, you know, just be super aggressive about your career and keep getting

promotion, promotion, promotion, and go work for a Fortune 500 to make a lot of money, right? Engineers at Fang, like Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google, they're pulling 700 to a million a year. Like, they're doing just fine, right? It's a lot of ways. The point is, anyone who's a very ambitious person, I think that it is very important to structure your life so that work is not. not the main focus and not to say this is like a prolific thought, but I think that it's easier

said than done when you care about making money, being successful, achieving whatever. And that's why I'm a big fan of incorporating basically mental health, physical health, the spirituality, relationship in every day of your life, not just once in a while. And I think that that's how you play this game long enough. If every single day you make sure you fill all those other buckets. Yeah, I say mind, body, soul. Yeah. That's what it comes down to. You have to every single day.

It's so important. You do, because if you're not good inside, then you can't project on the outside. And, like, when you're talking about income, it's funny. Like, I always say this income is the outcome, not the objective. And I got it from the CEO of the company. And the more, the older I get, excuse me, the older I get, the more I realize that it's not, money is always great, right? Money solves problems. Money doesn't make you happy.

So if you're not good within, I don't care how much money you have. I don't care if you have hundreds of millions. You might be problem solving with it. You have to be good in here inside. And I think too many people, too many people like forsake all the other stuff in pursuit of money. Agreed. That's the issue. Yeah, I agree.

I don't think. And I've tested my own abilities that I have been faced with so many times where the income was very enticing. But doing the right thing, I think supersedes everything else. income will come like we said from the beginning income always comes and you have to do the right thing no matter what you do in life i don't care where you're going and i think your heart will guide you and doing the right thing is going to put you in the right path to where you need to be i agree with that yeah it sounds cheesy but the older i get the more i 100% believe it i believe that fully i don't think that you do the wrong thing i don't think it ever works out karma is a big fat

bitch at your front door yeah i agree with that and i think it always comes back and the more the more good deeds you do you know whether it's sadaka or just being a mentor or whatever it is, the more good that you do and the more good that you project, it will come back. I agree with that. I agree with that. I agree with that. I agree with that. If you live your life by money, that's what you're going to die by money. You're going to fall in the sword to it. And money has to be the last thing. It's so easy for, it's so easy to say once you have it, but it's so hard to help somebody understand that. I think I've always been this way. I remember when I first started out in insurance, very, I have, if he's watching Clay, he's a, he

follows me, but he's one of my first agents. And Clay was financially, he had no money. I didn't have any money. He didn't have, he had less than me. Well, I think that it's not, I was going to say, tell your story, but I think it's important to differentiate. Yes. So don't pursue money unethically, but I think it's okay to pursue money aggressively, especially when you're starting out. Well, the right intention. Yes. It's always has to be the right intention. You know, it's always been the income, like being the outcome. It was just, not my objective. My objective was always to help people. Yes. No, sorry. What about Clay. No, this guy. So Clay and I, we both were broke. We both were so broke. We were starting out in the insurance industry. And

Clay needed money first. I don't remember what it was for. And maybe I, I don't know what I had. Not much. And I remember going home to my ex-husband and saying, I have to get this guy this money. And he was looking at me like, that's our money. Like, we need this money. And I'm like, I don't care. Like, he needs it more than I need it. And I gave him the, I gave him money. I remember doing that because his need was much greater than mine was at the time. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny. Like, I don't know. Like, I've always found that like it doesn't matter how much money I've made. It's, it hasn't really changed my lifestyle that much. You are. I feel like I'm still the same down south, Taco Bell eating. Yeah, I'm the same. I mean, that's what I like.

I like that too. And I think that money does, I think money does change. Or it amplifies people, right? Sure. I think you just teach more of what you are. I think that, you know, if I think about the things that I like to spend money on, I like to not fly economy overseas. Yeah, I mean, these are just luxury. Yeah. Come on. And all, if once you go to first class, you can't go back.

You can't go back. It's so hard. You can't go back. I do. I have to fly spirit to Vegas. No, no, no, but overseas. Yeah. And you just can't.

It's so. I don't. Three hours, I don't care. Three hours I really don't care. No, it's fine. I mean, three hours. Domestic, you don't, unless you're going like, like, uh, like Miami. me to L.A. on like JetBlue Mint, you're not even getting a lie flat. So you just get a

fucking chair. Like, that's it. It's like domestic is always kind of like the same. I've found at least. It's not that great. I mean, I'm small so it doesn't even, I can curl up no matter where. I need the leg room. Yeah. I need the room. But yeah, I agree. I just don't think, I do think that money just makes you more of what you are. If you're an asshole, you're just a bigger asshole. I don't care about like spending it on. You know what? It's so funny. G. G. G. likes nice restaurants. I don't like nice restaurants. I'll tell you why I don't like all the fucking...

You're there forever. Ever. And like I don't like when somebody comes over every two seconds and is like, okay, so this is the, you know, the Scargo with the foam. And I'm like, oh my God, just give me Taco Bell. Or with the bread combs, the things they're coming to your tea. I don't, I'm not into it. But I don't, I'm not a big foodie. I'm not either.

I'm not either. I like eating at home. Like, I like cooking. Taco Bell is definitely. Taco Bell is the shit. Anyways. I'm trying to think what else I actually I'd spend money on.

I like nice things, but I've always, even when I had no money, I always like nice things, nice clothes. Clothes I don't care. Watch, yes. Yeah. I don't care about clothes. Clothes to me is like,

I'm like the Mark Zuckerberg like Steve Jobs, like find one thing and then just wear it again and again and again and again. That's fine. And I'll buy like 30 of like this shirt in different colors. Yeah, it's like Seth too. Stuff like that's like that. Like there's just this casual look. Yeah.

I always like nice things. That's never changed. But there are some things that like even my car, you saw my car that I drive. I love like, we've had the luxury cars, but I like my escalade. Like that's just like that's my thing. I like paying for convenience. That's what I do like. So I like not waiting in lines.

Agreed. I like if I go somewhere not to be like crowded. I like, I like that. I like my own space. I like my own space. But that's really it. And those are not, by the way, that's not like a super expensive lifestyle. No, I feel like the money.

Like you said, like money, it's great and it's easy because we have it. But even before then, even before I had money, I've always been, I feel like I've pretty much been the same person. Yeah, it's like definitely helped out with some other thing. But same thing. Like, it's great. It's a great tool. But it doesn't, but I know it doesn't make me.

That's not what makes me happy. This brings us back to the point of if you're just starting out, okay, so, you know, what should you do? And you're like, okay, so do you get bored at the 10-year mark? Not everybody has to build a company and raise money and, you know, stress and and try and have a hundred million dollar exit. Like, you don't need to do that. I don't think if that's what you don't want to.

There's so many ways to structure your life. Yeah, you don't have to. Your career, your business, that if you are smart and strategic and a little bit aggressive, like, you're going to do fine. Yeah, and I think that's different. I think wealth is defined differently for so many people. Like, Leandro and I know somebody that is just like that. He's an incredible speaker.

He has immense talent. And for him, his wealth is his family. Like having a big enough home for his family, not anything huge, and hanging out in the gym with his kids. I like that. And being there, like, that's his wealth. And I think that's defined differently for everybody. And an important thing is that, you know, making $100 million might be important to you, which is great. That's fine.

But you know what? Making a six-figure income is just as okay. It's great. And I think that that's where you have to strut, you have to be strategic about your life. Like, where do you want to live? what city, what's the lifestyle, what school do you want your kids to go to? And then also all this, there's so much garbage online about, like, I see the most ridiculous posts about, you know, $10 million, $20 million is not a lot of money.

Like you see this, see this garbage on social media about people that, and I understand what they're after tax. I get it. I get that. I do get that concept because like a million dollars is not. It's not a lot. It's not a lot. It's a lot.

But it's not like it was. Like when we were younger. But I just wish that people would stop. Yes. Also when I was younger. You're not that much older than me. I just wish people would not build their life based on what other people tell them they should build their life. I agree with that.

Whether or not you think a million dollars is a lot, a little, a hundred grand is a lot, a little, 10 million, 20 million, 100 million, whatever you're going after. Like, do it for yourself. And don't like don't like lifestyle creep is real. Don't build a business so that you're okay to live in a $20,000 apartment in Manhattan when you hate Manhattan. Yeah. Like why are you doing it? Like that's my point. Like you're building something to achieve a life that you don't even want.

No. I think when you get older, it's I, you start to realize that it doesn't like you start to become your own person. And it took me a long time to get rid of that imposter syndrome and really just come in. We didn't grow up with social media. So I'm scared about. If somebody grows up with social media and they see the clowns that are flexing like Richard Mills in Dubai, if that's what somebody grows up with me and then that is success, that's scary. Yeah, hopefully they know that, like, that's what I call it fake book, not Facebook. It's hard.

It is hard because there's a lot of clout out there that's not real clout. And it's rented life. Yeah, it's not real. And it's social media. Like, it's like anything else. If you're smart and you're wise and you've lived a life, some 15-year-old doesn't get it. Yeah, agreed, agreed. But that comes down to parenting also, and it also comes down to, like, morals and values. Do you let your kids on social? Yeah. All of it? All of it. The little one, we try to regulate it, but they see it. They're going to see it no matter what. They'll see. These kids are smarter than I am. They have VPN. My kids are even possible because they hack the VPN.

Oh, yeah, but I'm open about it. I have a very bizarre relationship. I would say on an unconventional relationship with my kids. And I don't know if it's right, wrong or indifferent, but anything goes, like, as far as, like, what we talk about. So we're very open about everything. So this way, if they do see something on social media, like, right then and there, we'll address it. And they'll hear from me, in my perspective, whether it's real or not. And my kids grew up, though, my kids saw me struggle. So they know that in life you have to work. And we talk about it.

My kids have watched it, especially the big ones, where we went from living in, like, this little, 800 square foot home. Like they've watched the, you'll meet my daughter today. She'll tell you she knows the whole, she watched it. Yeah. So they know, but we're very open about what's on social media, like what's acceptable versus what's not acceptable. So I love that. I think that's the best way to parent like just like that. You have to know, because they're going to do it. They're exposed to it all. My kids are exposed. I mean, the Snapchat, you know, kids can buy drugs from Snapchat. They can. Oh, yeah. Horrified. Absolutely horrified. But I do think that being like open and candid, I think that's probably the best way to parent just to help them now. Like the world is crazy. What are we going to hide it? I'm not going to pretend like this is happening. Some of my kids' parents, it's, or my kids' friends' parents, don't, I'm like, they don't realize that this is going on in the world. Like, where do you live?

Yeah, I know. Like, what are we doing here? And I think that the more, like, honest you can be with your kids about everything, I think that that's like a safety thing, but also then they can be honest about, like, what do they actually want to achieve in their life and not also impose your version of life on them. and live vicariously through them, which is also unhealthy. I agree. I 100% agree.

I even just did a thing about college is it for everybody. And growing up, I love my mom. You'll meet her too today. I love my mom more than anything. She is the most amazing person. But the biggest thing for her for me was education. And while that was good for me, I don't think that higher education is good for everybody. And I don't want to ever push that.

Like for my daughter, I think it'd be great. But my son, he's a different kid. So I don't think that, you know, I think every kid is. completely different and I don't want my child to ever feel because my mom made me feel like I had to be this attorney. I don't want my daughter. I want her to feel whatever it is she feels on her own outside of me. It's an interesting conversation. My family also wanted me to go to university and I did. I got my undergrad. Is it important for everyone? You know, I think, I was thinking about this the other day because I was listening to an interview with Evan Spiegel, like the founder of Snapchat. And he was talking about, like, some of the things that he learned at, I think Stanford.

Yeah. And I was like, wow, I did not learn that shit. What did you'd learn? Like, she was talking about, like, product development and like, like, for like tech companies and how to look at total addressable market and how to gauge whether or not something is like a billion dollar opportunity. But our majors are, you did criminal justice too, right? Yeah. That's why we didn't learn about that. We were learning about.

I don't think that this was. Listen, I knew people that went through like the business stream, I don't think they were learning this stuff. No. So my point is, is college university useful? I think that I think that some college and university courses are useful. I don't think that I think that the majority are very expensive and people don't use university or college the way they should. And it's just a waste of time for some people. I agree with that.

But if you go to Stanford or, I mean, you can make the argument, Ivy League network, which I think you can get outside of it. But I'm sure there's something to be said for like, you know, being shoulder to shoulder with people whose parents run some of the largest companies in the world or have built some of the biggest companies in the world. Like it's useful to know those people. Yeah. But that's Ivy League. Yeah. I think I think for college, for me going to college was good. I was an only child.

And when my mom dropped me off, literally dropped me off here in Orlando at 17. I didn't have basic skill knowledge. Like, I didn't know how to cook. I didn't know how to do laundry. I didn't know time management. I didn't really. I didn't really. I didn't really.

I did. I did because I had to live. I was forced off campus. So it taught me how to balance. Yeah. It gave me, like, you know, how to work in groups with other people. Well, I mean, I was good with people, but it showed me time, time management. It showed me, like, basic life skills.

So, like, for me, college was great. It was a great, personal development place for me. Yeah. But I don't know that. Yes to personal development. I agree with that completely. Yes to personal development. Yes to...

Not necessarily classes. Like I took some bizarre, like human nature. I don't know. Some things that I don't even know the math, integrated math. I took some pretty stupid classes too. I took classes that were just like fun or like how could I like get through this class without showing up and still pass and get a credit? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. What did I take?

I took like, it was like one class. I went to Ottawa, like Ottawa. There was one class. It was like witchcraft and the occult. And you learned about like all the different like occult stuff. Yeah. Very useful. Are you using that today?

And it was like it was like known as like a BS like class like and the class that you wanted to take. Oh, I'm trying to think back has been like a minute now. The classes you wanted to take were like classes that like didn't have regular papers but you could basically pass the entire class by taking one exam at the end of it. And then you were done. And then you were done. And then you were done.

You didn't have to show up. You didn't have to show up the whole semester and you'd just take one exam at the end. And I think that was one of those classes. Yeah, that was a, but going back to it, but I do think college is, I think it's good for some kids, not all kids. I don't think that every kid needs to go to college. I think some people lack direction. Yeah, that's why I went and got a pastor's. I didn't know what I was doing in life.

So it was a great, it was a great segue for me to figure out where I was going to go after that. But I don't use a lot of the stuff that I learned. Nothing. Yeah, almost nothing. Nothing. I mean, I even got, I got my MBA after. Yeah, I got my master's. I didn't use any of it.

I knew most of the things from building businesses, by the time I got my MBA. Yeah, I don't, I just, like I said, I don't think that college or higher education is for everybody. I think it depends on the individual

and what they're trying to do with it. Some kids are so smart. Like, some entrepreneurs, they're like, they're 16 years old, and they got their shit figured out, and they're coding up apps, and they're putting companies together, they're already generating significant revenue.

Everyone goes on their own journey, depending on how fast you mature, how quick you identify your North Star in your life. Yeah, social aspect is important as well. I think that, I think that also, again, you just have to understand that like any path will work. Yeah. Any path will work. I agree.

Just put energy towards it. Like wandering through life is not a solution to anything. No. So if you put some concerted thought towards what you want your life to look like or what you want to do for your job or what business you want to build, just move in that direction with or without college. But if you want to be like, listen, if you have parents and the only idea you have in your head is to be a lawyer, that's the path. You do it. But if you want to be an entrepreneur and I'll make an argument for that all day every day, then think of a problem that you love solving and find a way to solve it. I agree.

It's the same thing. Like my family, I don't know if your family was very entrepreneurial. Mine is not at all. I told you about my family. My dad worked for the government. My mom worked for universities. Yeah. No.

So it was very close. Zero, zero entrepreneur. Like nine to five. You get here. You know, you get, I don't know. Pensions, benefits. Yeah. That's what exactly.

Safety, yeah. Yeah, same thing. And then when I finally did the entrepreneur. And my mom tells me today how proud she is that I took the risk. I wonder if my, I don't even know if my parents understand what I do for a living. I think my mom still wants me to lose. No, I'm kidding. She knows that I podcast, but at the same time, she's also like not from this world of, I mean, forget entrepreneurship.

Podcasting for Living is a pretty wild. I think it's pretty cool. It's fun. I think you're doing really good. I think you're doing good. So as we end it, break it down for us. Give us one piece of advice that you would just, one, like, the most profound advice that you would give to anyone, especially an entrepreneur. Okay. So these are kind of my go-to ideas that I love. The first idea I mentioned, anything you want to build, you can build. It'll just take longer than you think it will, and it'll probably be a little bit more expensive, but know that you can do it. If something's been done before, the person who accomplished it is not that special. It means that you can accomplish it as well.

most people are scared because they don't see the through line or the map between where they are now and where they want to go. So to that, I say look to somebody who's built it before and reverse engineer how they got there and commit. If you want to build something meaningful, commit 10 years of your life to it. And when you think that way, you'll set yourself up so that you can commit 10 years of your life financially and mentally. to whatever it is you want to build. And when you combine all those ideas, I think it's very hard not to be successful. I love that.

And that comes from a guy that has one of the most successful podcasts in the world, not just here. I'm very privileged to be able to listen and ask questions to some of the wisest, most successful people as well. So hopefully some of that sticks. Hopefully I can get on that level. I love it. And if people want to find you, where would they find you?

So the podcast, if you like stuff like this, do the same thing. It's called success story. You're much better than I do. He's much better. You're good. This is very good. I enjoyed it. Your questions are very good. I think that at the end of the day, that's all it is. It's just being, there's another lesson. What makes a good podcaster, but also it makes a good entrepreneur. What makes somebody successful is being a genuinely curious person. That is a very important skill. Intentional and really giving a shit about people. If you give a shit, if you give a shit about people, not only will it serve you, you will learn anything you need to learn.

I mean, like, anything you want to figure out or anything you want to achieve again. It's probably on the other side of a hard conversation. That's a sort of a cliche line, but it's also on the other side of a good question. Anyways, so Successstorypodcast.com, you can find it anywhere. You get podcasts.

And then all the socials at Scott DeClari. I love it. You're the best. You're the best. Thank you.